July 7, 2025 • 9 mins
Ava's verdict was handed down - and it was not what any of us had been hoping for.
----
LINK TO GIVE TO AVA'S GOFUNDME:
https://www.gofundme.com/f/vxg4d-support-avas-legal-battle-in-thailand
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ava (00:00):
J
Rich (00:07):
Just a heads up before we begin, this episode does contain
some spoilers, so if youhaven't yet listened to the full
series, I'd recommend goingback and doing that first.
In the few weeks since we'vereleased this podcast, we've
been blown away by the number oflisteners who've reached out to
(00:28):
check in on Micah and Ava,especially to ask if there's
been any news about Ava's trial.
I think it's fair to say thatmany are hoping her legal
nightmare might be over.
Well, the verdict came out onThursday, June 26, and it wasn't
what any of us had hoped.
Ava (00:49):
So we arrived at the courthouse at 8.30 and I was
really quite excited because Ifelt, oh, we are coming to the
end.
I felt like quite confidentthat I'd be acquitted because
there's so much proof to supportthat I am innocent and I'm
(01:12):
already thinking in my headafter I am free, I'm going to
bring my kids to the beach andwe're going to celebrate.
So I was really looking forwardto the end of this at the
courthouse.
And when I was sitting thereand when I was waiting there, I
was so ready to receive and tohear what the judges had to say.
Rich (01:35):
By 9am, all the defendants, 24 in total, had
reached the courthouse.
But Ava's lawyer, somebody whowas working pro bono, had still
not arrived.
Ava (01:46):
I thought the lawyer was going to come and at 9 o'clock I
didn't see him so I gave him acall and he told me that in the
call that he wasn't going tocome.
So I actually went to ask theprosecutor is it At first,
Rich (02:19):
Ava wasn't worried that her lawyer hadn't shown up.
She was just waiting for thejudges to arrive.
And at 10am, they did.
But for procedural reasons, thecase was actually delayed until
the afternoon.
Finally, at about 2 p.m., thejudges were ready.
Ava (02:36):
The judges started reading the verdict and they read it for
about 30 minutes.
There were 24 people andpreviously there were 26 people,
but two persons had actuallypleaded guilty.
So there were 24 of us inthere.
Rich (02:56):
Each defendant was assigned a number.
Ava was number three.
Ava (03:02):
So the judge said, number one to number six, and number
nine to number 12, you areguilty.
And the verdict is two yearsand 16 months in jail for
(03:22):
scamming.
Rich (03:23):
Guilty and 40 months of jail time.
It was, it is a crushingdisappointment.
All the more so because it wasso unexpected.
Like Ava, I had felt prettyconfident that she would be
acquitted.
I was looking forward toputting this episode together.
How could she not be?
(03:44):
The evidence in her favourseemed so clear.
Do we know if there wassomething that this lawyer did
or didn't do properly that ledto this?
Yes.
Not all the defendants werefound guilty.
Nine were acquitted, and amongthe nine was Ava's uncle.
(04:05):
In the court case, Ava's unclewas defendant number eight.
As you might remember, Ava'suncle had been trafficked to
Scenicville and trapped in thesame compound with her.
Their cases are almostidentical.
So why was he acquitted whenAva was not?
Ava (04:24):
So the judge said, you have the proof from a policeman that
you were human trafficked intoscamming.
So when I heard that, I knewthose were my documents and the
lawyer had put my documents formy uncle because we went
(04:44):
together, but those were mydocuments.
I immediately knew that therewas something wrong.
that he didn't hand in thedocuments.
Rich (04:59):
As far as we can tell, Ava's lawyer had simply not
submitted any supportingdocuments in her case.
But the same supportingdocuments submitted in her
uncle's case had been enough toget her uncle acquitted.
Ava (05:12):
And when I heard the verdict, I just felt, why?
Is this true?
Why?
Why me?
Why?
Why?
So they cuffed my hands, andthey said, you cannot go see
your relatives.
You must walk down with us.
They can go see you downstairs.
(05:32):
And at that instant, Icollapsed.
I cried.
I was brain dead.
I didn't know what to think.
It was like I was in a dream.
I felt like my brain wasn'toperating.
I wasn't hearing anything.
Micah (05:54):
my mind just like jammed a while and then I just I really
like frustrated yeah really weare really innocent and then
when this kind of thing will befinished in my life when I need
to bring Eva back to my hometownto see my parents and then My
(06:19):
parents are getting older andolder already in three years
already.
We got the document that provenEva was really innocent.
And then just only the stepbecause of the lawyer, he didn't
submit the things that the Evaname.
Yeah.
(06:39):
And then, yeah, I don't know.
I really like, I don't know.
Rich (06:46):
Ava's lawyer hasn't contacted her since the verdict
came out.
She registered her intent toappeal and Micah borrowed yet
another 100,000 Thai Baht asbail.
So for now, she's back homewith Micah and her kids.
She has less than 30 days tofile an appeal.
If she loses the appeal, she'llhave to serve her sentence.
(07:10):
In our most recent call, Micahsaid something that moved me
deeply.
when I asked him what his firstthoughts were post-verdict.
He said,
Micah (07:20):
Just think about that.
Oh, not again.
So we need to fight again.
Rich (07:28):
They've done so much fighting and now they need to
fight again.
But here's the thing.
This podcast has never justbeen about those who are thrown
into the fight of their lives.
It's about those who choose tostep into the fight with them.
So we're going to try somethingwe've never done before.
(07:50):
As a production team, we'restepping in too.
And we're inviting you to joinus.
We've set up a GoFundMe toraise money for a proper paid
criminal defense lawyer for Ava.
Someone who will handle thisappeal properly.
Someone who will show up Submitthe documents, cross the T's,
(08:13):
dot the I's.
We've already started gettingquotes from Thai lawyers and it
looks like if we can raise about5,000 USD, we'll be able to
cover the cost of the appeal.
Things have been incrediblyhard financially for Micah and
Ava these past three years.
Ava hasn't been allowed to workbecause of the case and with
(08:33):
kids to support, they've beenstretched beyond their limits.
So, anything we raise beyondthat 5,000, and we really hope
we do, will go straight to Micahand Ava.
What I want most is for Micahand Ava to feel it.
That they're not forgotten.
They're not walking this roadalone.
That there's a community outthere, one that believes in
(08:57):
justice, and one that is willingto fight for it with them.
So, will you come on this extralittle journey with us?
with Micah and Ava.
The link to the GoFundMe is inthe show notes, or you can go to
fightofmylifepodcast.com andwe'll put a link in there.
If you give, would you leavethem a little note too?
(09:19):
Let them know you're with them.
I have no idea how this willunfold, but I am hopeful, and
I'm grateful to have you withus.
We'll let you know what happensnext.
J
Rich (00:07):
Just a heads up before we begin, this episode does contain
some spoilers, so if youhaven't yet listened to the full
series, I'd recommend goingback and doing that first.
In the few weeks since we'vereleased this podcast, we've
been blown away by the number oflisteners who've reached out to
(00:28):
check in on Micah and Ava,especially to ask if there's
been any news about Ava's trial.
I think it's fair to say thatmany are hoping her legal
nightmare might be over.
Well, the verdict came out onThursday, June 26, and it wasn't
what any of us had hoped.
Ava (00:49):
So we arrived at the courthouse at 8.30 and I was
really quite excited because Ifelt, oh, we are coming to the
end.
I felt like quite confidentthat I'd be acquitted because
there's so much proof to supportthat I am innocent and I'm
(01:12):
already thinking in my headafter I am free, I'm going to
bring my kids to the beach andwe're going to celebrate.
So I was really looking forwardto the end of this at the
courthouse.
And when I was sitting thereand when I was waiting there, I
was so ready to receive and tohear what the judges had to say.
Rich (01:35):
By 9am, all the defendants, 24 in total, had
reached the courthouse.
But Ava's lawyer, somebody whowas working pro bono, had still
not arrived.
Ava (01:46):
I thought the lawyer was going to come and at 9 o'clock I
didn't see him so I gave him acall and he told me that in the
call that he wasn't going tocome.
So I actually went to ask theprosecutor is it At first,
Rich (02:19):
Ava wasn't worried that her lawyer hadn't shown up.
She was just waiting for thejudges to arrive.
And at 10am, they did.
But for procedural reasons, thecase was actually delayed until
the afternoon.
Finally, at about 2 p.m., thejudges were ready.
Ava (02:36):
The judges started reading the verdict and they read it for
about 30 minutes.
There were 24 people andpreviously there were 26 people,
but two persons had actuallypleaded guilty.
So there were 24 of us inthere.
Rich (02:56):
Each defendant was assigned a number.
Ava was number three.
Ava (03:02):
So the judge said, number one to number six, and number
nine to number 12, you areguilty.
And the verdict is two yearsand 16 months in jail for
(03:22):
scamming.
Rich (03:23):
Guilty and 40 months of jail time.
It was, it is a crushingdisappointment.
All the more so because it wasso unexpected.
Like Ava, I had felt prettyconfident that she would be
acquitted.
I was looking forward toputting this episode together.
How could she not be?
(03:44):
The evidence in her favourseemed so clear.
Do we know if there wassomething that this lawyer did
or didn't do properly that ledto this?
Yes.
Not all the defendants werefound guilty.
Nine were acquitted, and amongthe nine was Ava's uncle.
(04:05):
In the court case, Ava's unclewas defendant number eight.
As you might remember, Ava'suncle had been trafficked to
Scenicville and trapped in thesame compound with her.
Their cases are almostidentical.
So why was he acquitted whenAva was not?
Ava (04:24):
So the judge said, you have the proof from a policeman that
you were human trafficked intoscamming.
So when I heard that, I knewthose were my documents and the
lawyer had put my documents formy uncle because we went
(04:44):
together, but those were mydocuments.
I immediately knew that therewas something wrong.
that he didn't hand in thedocuments.
Rich (04:59):
As far as we can tell, Ava's lawyer had simply not
submitted any supportingdocuments in her case.
But the same supportingdocuments submitted in her
uncle's case had been enough toget her uncle acquitted.
Ava (05:12):
And when I heard the verdict, I just felt, why?
Is this true?
Why?
Why me?
Why?
Why?
So they cuffed my hands, andthey said, you cannot go see
your relatives.
You must walk down with us.
They can go see you downstairs.
(05:32):
And at that instant, Icollapsed.
I cried.
I was brain dead.
I didn't know what to think.
It was like I was in a dream.
I felt like my brain wasn'toperating.
I wasn't hearing anything.
Micah (05:54):
my mind just like jammed a while and then I just I really
like frustrated yeah really weare really innocent and then
when this kind of thing will befinished in my life when I need
to bring Eva back to my hometownto see my parents and then My
(06:19):
parents are getting older andolder already in three years
already.
We got the document that provenEva was really innocent.
And then just only the stepbecause of the lawyer, he didn't
submit the things that the Evaname.
Yeah.
(06:39):
And then, yeah, I don't know.
I really like, I don't know.
Rich (06:46):
Ava's lawyer hasn't contacted her since the verdict
came out.
She registered her intent toappeal and Micah borrowed yet
another 100,000 Thai Baht asbail.
So for now, she's back homewith Micah and her kids.
She has less than 30 days tofile an appeal.
If she loses the appeal, she'llhave to serve her sentence.
(07:10):
In our most recent call, Micahsaid something that moved me
deeply.
when I asked him what his firstthoughts were post-verdict.
He said,
Micah (07:20):
Just think about that.
Oh, not again.
So we need to fight again.
Rich (07:28):
They've done so much fighting and now they need to
fight again.
But here's the thing.
This podcast has never justbeen about those who are thrown
into the fight of their lives.
It's about those who choose tostep into the fight with them.
So we're going to try somethingwe've never done before.
(07:50):
As a production team, we'restepping in too.
And we're inviting you to joinus.
We've set up a GoFundMe toraise money for a proper paid
criminal defense lawyer for Ava.
Someone who will handle thisappeal properly.
Someone who will show up Submitthe documents, cross the T's,
(08:13):
dot the I's.
We've already started gettingquotes from Thai lawyers and it
looks like if we can raise about5,000 USD, we'll be able to
cover the cost of the appeal.
Things have been incrediblyhard financially for Micah and
Ava these past three years.
Ava hasn't been allowed to workbecause of the case and with
(08:33):
kids to support, they've beenstretched beyond their limits.
So, anything we raise beyondthat 5,000, and we really hope
we do, will go straight to Micahand Ava.
What I want most is for Micahand Ava to feel it.
That they're not forgotten.
They're not walking this roadalone.
That there's a community outthere, one that believes in
(08:57):
justice, and one that is willingto fight for it with them.
So, will you come on this extralittle journey with us?
with Micah and Ava.
The link to the GoFundMe is inthe show notes, or you can go to
fightofmylifepodcast.com andwe'll put a link in there.
If you give, would you leavethem a little note too?
(09:19):
Let them know you're with them.
I have no idea how this willunfold, but I am hopeful, and
I'm grateful to have you withus.
We'll let you know what happensnext.
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