July 17, 2024 • 49 mins
What if you could erase the memory of a painful breakup? Would you do it? On the season four finale of The Film Nuts Podcast, I sit down with photographer Amy Ellis to discuss the unforgettable film Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind and its profound influence on her life and career. Amy shares how the film shaped her teenage years and inspired her journey into photography, where she now dedicates her work to preserving memories. We explore the movie's unique storytelling and emotional depth, contrasting it with Amy's mission to capture and immortalize cherished moments, especially during times of loss.
We dive into the ethical questions and emotional complexities presented in the film, contemplating whether erasing the pain of lost love is worth the cost of losing treasured memories. Our conversation shifts from the film's narrative choices to personal anecdotes about grief, love, and the irreplaceable value of memories. Amy's insights as a photographer bring a rich layer to our discussion, highlighting how photography can help us hold onto the moments that define our lives, even amid sorrow.
Finally, we reflect on the messy, unpolished portrayal of love in Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind and how it resonates with the authenticity Amy strives for in her work. From examining complex characters to discussing societal expectations around relationships, we cover it all. We also ponder modern issues like virtual catfishing, making connections to the film's themes. Tune in for a thought-provoking conversation that blends film analysis with the broader importance of memory, love, and personal growth.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Taylor D. Adams (00:01):
Hi, I'm sorry, I just said hi, hi, hello, hi.
Okay, if I sit closer, how farare you going?
Uh, rockville Center Get out Metoo.
Really.
Amy Ellis (00:19):
What are the odds?
Taylor D. Adams (00:23):
Do I know you.
What are the odds?
Amy Ellis (00:29):
Do I know you?
Do you ever shop at Barnes andNoble?
It's unlike any movie you'veever seen.
It's low budget but high impact, both visually and mentally.
It had a huge impact on mebecoming an adult or as a
teenager, Just the way that itshowed visually how you can look
at memories and just theprocess of forgetting memories
(00:54):
or just thinking back to whatthey used to be.
Taylor D. Adams (01:01):
Hi, I'm Taylor and welcome to the season four
finale of the Film Nuts podcast,a show about why we love what
we watch.
I'm so glad you've been on thisjourney with me and, if you're
actually new to the podcast,we've got over 50 episodes that
you can go listen to right now.
If you enjoy this one.
For today's episode, let's talkabout.
(01:21):
Wait, what are we talking about?
Sorry, I forget shit all thetime.
Sometimes I even forget toupload these episodes on time.
I don't know if it's just myoccasional scatterbrained nature
or what, but I'm fairly certainit's not because I've had any
particular procedure done.
At least, I don't think so.
(01:44):
Eternal Sunshine of the SpotlessMind, starring Jim Carrey and
Kate Winslet, is a story abouttwo lovers who erase each other
from their memories.
It's funny and emotional andposes a lot of interesting
questions on the nature ofrelationships, a central one of
them being do the badexperiences we have justify the
elimination of the good ones,which is a great topic of
(02:05):
discussion for my guest today.
Amy Ellis is a photographer whodefines her job as capturing
memories, so you can see how itmakes sense that Eternal
Sunshine of the Spinal's Mindwould be a film of interest to
her.
Along with being a talentedphotographer, amy is also one of
my partner Nicole's bestfriends, so we've known each
other for over a decade.
In our fun chat, amy and I talkabout the messiness of
(02:27):
relationships, our fear oflosing memory and, of course,
kate Winslet's hair color.
No need to schedule anappointment, because right now
here's Amy Ellis talking abouteternal sunshine of the spotless
mind on the season four finaleof the film.
That's podcast.
I don't think we've known eachother for a long time, but I
(02:49):
don't think I've ever asked youlike what actually got you first
interested in photography um,my brother when I was a freshman
in high school.
Amy Ellis (02:59):
He was a senior and he took the high school film
class and by film I mean likefilm photo, right um.
So our high school had a darkroom and I ended up taking that
after seeing him take somereally awesome film photos from
the grand canyon they actuallywent on a field trip and I
really wanted to go to the grandcanyon the next year and they
(03:20):
canceled it and I was really sadjerks yeah, but um, I got into
it from there so I've been doingit for a long time and I was
hooked and I was really sadJerks, yeah, but I got into it
from there.
So I've been doing it for a longtime and I was hooked and I was
like, well, I don't want to doanything else, so I will just
figure out a way to make moneywith this.
Taylor D. Adams (03:34):
What was it about that process that you
liked so much?
Amy Ellis (03:40):
Well, not that I really shoot film anymore Well,
not that I really shoot filmanymore but I feel like it's a
high value job if you can makeit work Like I'm someone who
preserves memories and picturesof people, which is a pretty
valuable thing, if you ask me.
Taylor D. Adams (03:59):
Yeah so.
Amy Ellis (03:59):
I feel like I am contributing to society and
personal lives in a really niceway and I think I noticed that
taking pictures of my family andfriends in high school.
Taylor D. Adams (04:09):
Right, so you started taking the pictures, and
then you began to realize theimportance of that action?
Amy Ellis (04:15):
Yeah, and that was before Instagram and all the
aesthetic.
Taylor D. Adams (04:19):
So when you realized that you kind of
enjoyed this process ofpreserving memory, realize that
you kind of enjoyed this processof preserve, preserving memory.
But when you told me that youwanted to talk about eternal
sunshine of the spotless mind, Iwas like this kind of this
makes sense.
But also the opposite but alsoit's the opposite of what makes
sense for this.
So why?
Why did you want to talk aboutthis movie?
Amy Ellis (04:39):
um, it was.
It had a huge impact on mebecoming an adult or as a
teenager, because it came outwhen I was 14.
And I remember, once it cameout, just the way that it showed
visually how you can look atmemories and just the process of
(05:01):
forgetting memories or justthinking back to what they used
to be.
It was just a beautiful thing.
I could die right now, glenn,I'm just happy.
Taylor D. Adams (05:20):
I've never felt that before.
I'm just exactly where I wantto be.
Amy Ellis (05:35):
Glenn.
Taylor D. Adams (05:42):
We're going off .
I'll give you a sign.
Amy Ellis (05:51):
I'm gonna call it off .
Can you hear me?
I don't want this anymore.
I'm gonna call it off and Iwould be in my art class and
just like pop in the soundtrackand just paint, you know, and I
mean, and in the dark room too,and it was just.
It had a huge effect on me andit was just a beautiful story
and it was a movie unlikeanything I'd ever seen.
(06:13):
And I can still say that tothis day, because there's really
nothing like it.
Taylor D. Adams (06:18):
Yeah, I was noticing that, cause I I don't
think I seen it since probablycollege, like not when it came
out, but you know, on the rentfrom blockbuster or something
like that, or like one of my,one of my college roommates
owned it.
So this most recent timewatching it it's one of Nicole's
favorite movies too and she wastotally down to rewatch it for
(06:38):
this and I was watching it I waslike I forget that it's a.
It's a science fiction movieand the way that it conveys
sci-fi is so like grounded, likeit doesn't do anything like
over the top or crazy with thespecial effects or like CGI or
anything like that.
Like everything, like the actof memories disappearing is
(07:01):
showcased by just like lightsgoing out and stuff, which I
think is super cool and a reallylike grounded, raw way to kind
of convey that idea yeah, Iagree I also.
Amy Ellis (07:14):
I feel like in my mind how, when, like in scenes
where they go back to revisitmemories that have already been
erased, or like hiding indifferent memories.
In my mind that's probably whatit's like, how your brain is
working.
So I love it.
It doesn't feel sci-fi at all.
Taylor D. Adams (07:31):
Yeah yeah that totally makes sense to me do you
remember the first time you sawthis?
What, who were you with?
Where were you?
What was kind of going on inyour life?
You said you saw it as like a14 year old yeah, I think I was
14 um I don't think I saw it intheaters.
Amy Ellis (07:45):
I'm pretty sure it was like a I don't know about
blockbuster, maybe like anetflix dvd okay via mail okay
um miss those days yeah, me tooit was always fun yeah, it was
very exciting getting in themail.
Um, I thought maybe it would bewith nicole, but I'm honestly
not sure.
And I asked her just a secondago and she said she didn't
think we'd seen it together.
Taylor D. Adams (08:05):
Okay, Well, she was convinced that her and I
went and saw where the wildthings are in the movie theater
and I looked I was like no, wedidn't.
But she was convinced and Ilooked it up and the movie came
out before we were dating.
So I was like no, sorry you'rewrong.
She's like who would I go tothe movies to?
(08:31):
Like you've dated other people.
Oh, she's just erased thosepeople.
I know exactly.
She went through the process.
She called uh what?
the hell's the name of the thing, uh, lacuna, yeah, she called
lacuna and was like I need toerase everyone but my boyfriend,
my boyfriend, um, so what'sinteresting is, like to me,
eternal sunshine of the spot wasfine, just that name.
Not knowing what it's about, Iautomatically think it's like
the most pretentious thing I'veever heard of.
(08:52):
Yeah, but like but.
But it's because I know nothingabout the movie and also I had
a kind of a hesitancy towardthis movie because everybody
that I knew in college thatloved this movie movie, excuse
me was like in the uh, indie, uh, hipster, you know, artistic,
not to say that anything that iswrong, but that wasn't my vibe.
(09:14):
So I was very hesitant to watchthis or really appreciate it.
Um, but watching that was likeno, this movie rules, uh, but
with with that title like to youit's from a longer poem by
alexander pope, but the titleitself for this movie.
What does that mean to you?
Amy Ellis (09:33):
well, it's funny you mentioned the whole uh like
indie vibe, because when I wasin high school that's who I
wanted to be.
That was who I truly wasstriving to be, and so I also
think when you're like 14 or 15,at least, I was someone who was
starting to read books thatactually had a little philosophy
(09:56):
in them, and so I was suddenlylike I want to be a deep person,
but when you're 15, you're notas deep as you think you are.
So, when I heard EternalSunshine of the Spotless mind, I
was like I don't know what thatmeans, but I have to watch it
gets to people going yeah,you're like this sounds
ridiculous.
I'm in.
Yeah, it's clearly deep, it'sthere's something right right,
yeah, so I don't know.
(10:17):
Now, I guess, in a way I see itas like ignorance is bliss and
I forget the whole.
um quote that from the movie,including the movie title.
But it's beautiful, but I don'tknow if I could quite like
break down.
I think I want to like know thewhole poem.
Taylor D. Adams (10:37):
It's a very long poem.
Amy Ellis (10:38):
Oh, it is.
Taylor D. Adams (10:39):
Yeah, it's very long oh okay, it's very long
and that's just just a couplelines.
Amy Ellis (10:45):
The lines that Kirsten Dunst says is like four
lines the quote goes how happyis the blameless vessel's lot,
the world forgetting by theworld forgot Eternal sunshine of
a spotless mind.
Each prayer accepted and eachwish resigned.
(11:06):
I wanna be a great big, hugeelephant With a huge trunk like
that.
Taylor D. Adams (11:15):
One more time.
It is very much about kind of,yeah, ignorance is not,
ignorance is bliss, bliss, butsomething along the lines of how
, like pivoting that toward likeinnocence.
Yeah, it's, it's interesting,and there's a whole like.
I could go on.
(11:36):
It's like the whole backstoryof like why alexander pope wrote
that poem and all this otherstuff.
But people can go look thatstuff up because it's way more
highbrow than I'm capable ofunderstanding.
So I do have to ask you thisthough Would you ever erase
anything or anybody from yourmemory?
Amy Ellis (11:58):
No, but I also realize I'm saying that as
someone with a fairly privilegedlife and, yes, I've gone
through bad things, but like Ifeel like I have come on the
other side in a very good way.
But again, I know that thereare other people out there that
would be like that's becauseyou've got to your life's just
fine, which it probably is.
Taylor D. Adams (12:16):
What about you?
Yeah, I don't know.
I mean, yeah, anything that Icould potentially see is maybe
something that'd be nice tonever think about again.
I'd be like, okay, but it wasso minuscule that I rarely think
about it anyway.
Yeah.
Amy Ellis (12:31):
Like a middle school embarrassment that like shows
back up in your mind at 10o'clock when you're trying to go
to sleep.
Taylor D. Adams (12:37):
Yeah.
Amy Ellis (12:37):
That would be great.
You know a person not so much.
Taylor D. Adams (12:41):
What kind of middle school embarrassment
comes up for you?
I don't want to talk about it.
Well, I think the the theanother question to go along
with that kind of thought is,especially with this movie, with
the characters that go throughthese, this procedure with
Lacuna, not even the maincharacters, like, is the pain
(13:04):
that is experienced worth thelove?
Basically?
Amy Ellis (13:10):
Well, it's interesting you ask that
question Because my partner andI, when I watched it, just to
revamp my memory, he went on adeep dive and found a fact that
was basically saying saying theyoriginally planned to include a
few other you know, very minorcharacters like extras, showing
(13:30):
them, um, also at lacuna to gettheir memories erased.
And it was a I think it was asexual assault victim and a
veteran who wanted to forget hisfriends from war like he had
lost.
And they ended up taking it outbecause they realized that it
would suddenly become a muchbigger discussion and not focus
(13:51):
on the love story that they'retrying to tell yeah which I feel
like if that's their goal, thenthey did a great job and it was
wise to not take it out.
But that really does open updoors for like whole other
discussions, because they show awoman in the waiting room with
like a box full of things,trying to forget her dog and I'm
like, as you know, my cat justdied and it was terrible and I'm
sad, but I would never want toforget any like moment with him
(14:14):
so like you're grieving, butusually grieving just means that
you love that person or thatanimal yeah, so to me when it
comes to that situation.
I never would, but I also don'twant to speak for somebody else.
Taylor D. Adams (14:28):
I don't know yeah, I think for the movie
itself it handles by keeping itfocused, it makes it like a good
, effective, enjoyable movie towatch, yeah, um, but to have
like.
But on the outskirts are allthese things, are all these like
hints of people that have gonethrough this without actually
like going into detail theirwhole backstory, which I don't
(14:50):
think you need to Like the womanin the waiting room with the
box full of her dog stuff, I'mlike, ok, she's in the waiting
room, you understand exactlywhat she's doing there.
Yeah, and then the fact, too,when we just every time we see
just a bunch of files, we'relike, oh, a bunch of people have
thought about doing this andhave gone through this whole
thing, and I think there waslike one throwaway line of a
woman calling in to like get theprocedure done, and Kirsten
(15:11):
Dunst is like it's only beenthree weeks since your last one,
we can't do that, which I'mlike oof that's tough Um so
(15:33):
beyond kind of well.
no, actually, when you'rethinking about what you do as a
photographer and the fact thatyou are preserving memories like
no-transcript.
Amy Ellis (15:41):
Oh, I don't know Um, it sounds kind of morbid to say,
but, like, since we werealready talking about the
grieving aspect of losing people, I have had multiple people
throughout the years cause I'vebeen doing this for over 10
years now who will reach out tome when they have a parent die
or a grandparent die or someonereally close in their family,
(16:03):
and they say thank you so muchfor these photos, like they're
the best photos we have of themand we look at them daily and
like we really treasure them.
So I usually get thank yousduring, like, the hardest parts
of people's lives.
So it's terrible news for me toreceive, but it also is this
validation of like you're doingsomething good and meaningful
(16:23):
for other people.
So, yeah, it's kind of kind ofa weird way to feel valued, but
it's still important is that Imean not to dig on the
morbidness of this, but oh, Ilove going morbid.
We can get so morbid but is thatthat's?
Taylor D. Adams (16:41):
is that a different feeling than taking
beautiful pictures at somebody'swedding and handing them to
them?
Amy Ellis (16:48):
No, I mean, I think, being able to also give people
physical evidence of like, lookat this love that you have,
especially in this season ofyour life.
You never want to forget this.
That is also just as meaningful.
Never want to forget this, thatis also just as meaningful.
Um, yeah, I guess it's funnybecause I probably have become,
(17:10):
I guess, less sensitive to that.
Taylor D. Adams (17:11):
Just because I do it so much, I don't think
about it as much as I do whenpeople reach out as like thank
yous otherwise but yeah, so likewhen you meet with just a
potential person you're going tobe working with to photograph
either a family portrait or anevent they're having, or what
have you Like?
What are, what are some of thequestions you ask them in order
(17:36):
to get a better idea of how tobest capture what they want
captured capture what they wantcaptured.
Amy Ellis (17:48):
Um, at this point, you honestly, one of my biggest
questions is what is mostimportant to you on your wedding
day?
And like, what do you want toremember?
And same thing with family,like, tell me about your family,
what is most important to you?
And like, why do you want thesephotos?
Basically, why are we doingthis?
And I guess, when it comes tohow I capture it, I think I have
(18:09):
a style now that's fairlydocumentary style, that people
just know and I reiterate whenwe talk at our consultation, I
don't step in, I make things orallow things happen as they do,
and I don't want to interrupt ameaningful moment or turn it
into a production in any way,because it's so easy to, like
(18:30):
when a mom's putting on abride's dress, to like ask them
to move for an angle to get thelight better.
My style is the light justwon't be exactly perfect,
because this is the real momentthat's happening.
And why should I interrupt it?
Because it's still a beautifulmoment.
Taylor D. Adams (18:47):
Yeah, I think one of the one of the few times
I've had like my picture takenlike as an adult.
One of the photographers wasvery like prompt heavy and I was
not.
It was like pictures andpictures of me and Nicole and
the photographers like act likeyou love each other and I'm like
(19:07):
that's what you got Yikes.
Amy Ellis (19:10):
That must have been a bad day.
Taylor D. Adams (19:11):
Wasn't the best .
That's funny, but then we gotthis woman named Amy Ellis to
take our photos and they lookedphenomenal.
Amy Ellis (19:18):
What See?
I feel like I have to be alittle prompt, heavy, for you
know, portraits as opposed toshowing up to a wedding, because
, like wedding, the day justunfolds, and if you like have
two people show up, it's justlike be you.
And then you're like what do Ido?
Taylor D. Adams (19:32):
So, it's good, but I feel like if you make it a
setting and a place that isvery you and give each other
meaningful discussion to talkabout during it all, it can
actually be a a nice memory tiedin to the act of taking
pictures what I really likeabout what you previously said,
(19:56):
combined with this movie, isthat these memories, that
basically joel has to relive hismemories in order for them to
be erased, that basically Joelhas to relive his memories in
order for them to be erased, andthe fact that all these
memories are messy, like none ofthem are perfect.
Amy Ellis (20:10):
I tell you everything , every damn embarrassing thing.
You don't trust me.
Taylor D. Adams (20:20):
Constantly talking isn't necessarily
communicating.
Amy Ellis (20:26):
I don't do that.
I want to know you Hmm.
Taylor D. Adams (20:35):
I don't constantly talk Jesus.
Jesus, people have to sharethings, joel.
That's what intimacy is reallypissed that you said that to me.
I'm sorry.
I think that's been brought upa lot on this podcast is like
what if the thing we're talkingabout got remade and the first
thing we go is god, no.
Amy Ellis (20:56):
But then the second is like what?
Taylor D. Adams (20:58):
how would it be different if this movie, if
eternal sunshine of the spotlessmind was, say, remade within
the next five years?
How different do you think itwould be?
Not from, like aesthetically,but the memories that are
portrayed.
How do you think they would bedifferent?
(21:18):
Oh, I don't know, I don't know.
The initial thing I think of isthe fact that we're we're
living in a time where memoriesare commodified with social
media and so everything is likeperfect, and even the things
that aren't perfect arepurposely not like.
They're structured to be notperfect, and so I'm curious if,
(21:41):
like the memories that new Joelgoes through, look something
like that.
Amy Ellis (21:47):
Yeah, that's a great question, because one of my
favorite things about the movieis that it is messy and he
sleeps on a pullout couch, andwell, that's one thing I love
(22:08):
about their love, too is thattheir relationship is like it
doesn't require money, itdoesn't require a lot.
They literally make the mostout of the most mundane moments,
and so when he's reliving thesememories, it's like maybe they
can't afford to drive in movies,so they pull to the like edge
of the wall where they can stillsee it and then they like make
up a script, while the peopleare talking, but can't you see?
Taylor D. Adams (22:24):
I love you, antoine.
Hmm, lucky me, lay one on me.
Don't call me Antoine.
My name is Wally.
Yes, I know, but how can awoman love a man with a name
like Wally?
Oh, what was that?
Hey, oh my was that?
(22:45):
Hey, oh my God, there's peoplecoming out of your butt.
Amy Ellis (22:47):
There is, and you know they sneak into a movie, I
think, in one of the deletedscenes and I don't know Like
they literally and I love thistoo, because it doesn't make
sense and it's weird, but alsosome couples would understand it
they suffocate each other forfun, not in like a sexual way,
but it's just like a weird thingthat couples I guess do, and I
(23:12):
feel like every couple has thatone weird thing that doesn't
make sense to other people, butit's just like it's not a a
pretty movie.
Yeah, the aesthetics just don'texist and I think that's why
it's so beautiful to me.
Still and I feel like it wouldbe it would look very different.
These days, everything has to,yeah, everything is so curated,
and I feel like the way theytold their story was just like
(23:37):
2004 yeah just completelythemselves, not worried about
what other people thought oftheir living
situations and stuff.
But yeah, I think, oh god, Ifeel like it would be such a bad
movie now.
But to be fair too, I mean, ifyou want to factor in things
like covid and thinking abouthow weddings have changed,
(24:00):
everyone went from being like Iwant these.
I have this grand vision of awedding, and this is me speaking
personally.
It's like here's my vision, Iwant this aesthetic to.
I literally just want to have agreat time with my people and
remember it and like that's ahuge change.
And people are just kind of overthe BS of putting on a show.
Taylor D. Adams (24:19):
Yeah.
Amy Ellis (24:20):
So hopefully that would also look different in the
movie.
Taylor D. Adams (24:27):
So sorry for the interruption, but I will be
brief.
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(24:48):
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(25:11):
awesome people like yourself.
Okay, enough of me rambling backto the good stuff.
Going off of what you saidabout how people's kind of
attitudes have been changedabout event uh, capturing event
uh, covid and beyond, I thinklike that seems like a benefit
to me, is like to me, like.
(25:31):
The important stuff is is therealness and the like, what
actually happened, and notconstructing something.
I'll go back to the.
I'll go back to the photo shootthat Nicole and I did.
Uh right, I had a mixedfeelings about the photographer.
Amy Ellis (25:48):
It could have been totally me, though, cause
sometimes she's totallylistening to this right now and
being like stop talking shitabout it.
Taylor D. Adams (25:54):
But for me it's very much like shit.
Well, her and I've agreed itwas very much me, it was my it
was like it was, I was in myhead about things and like it
was it was it was.
Amy Ellis (26:03):
Photos aren't for everybody, so if you want it to
be, I am.
Taylor D. Adams (26:05):
I am weird.
I sometimes I you know, veryrecently I've gotten Over Not a
fear of being photographed, butI used to not like photos of
myself.
Yeah, and very recently I'vegotten over that and I'm like,
ok, all right, I'm getting usedto it.
But an interesting story waswhen we were first planning to
do these photos, these familyphotos, it poured down.
(26:30):
Rain that day poured down andit was canceled and I was like
why?
Amy Ellis (26:35):
did we cancel it.
Taylor D. Adams (26:36):
I feel like that could have been really fun,
like, because, if we all havethis attitude like, this is
ridiculous, like let's make thisas fun as possible, cause it's
not an ideal scenario, so it'salmost like an over correction
of the fact that your weatherconditions aren't perfect, so,
like these photos aren't goingto be perfect, so let's lean,
let's have fun, like, and Ithink, uh, just embracing the
(27:02):
kind of like non-structure, Ithink that pivot like you were
talking about.
I think, personally, I like apivot like that where things are
a little bit more natural,cause you'll remember, you know,
if, let's say, somebody'swedding goes really well, except
like, uh, like when they wereleaving with the spark horse, it
poured down rain, like though.
(27:23):
But you'll, they'll rememberthose photos though, of them
soaking wet, running to the limo, like.
That'll be a fun, yeah, story totell exactly, I'm with you yeah
, and I think if this movietried to uh, if this new
iteration that were hopefullynot speaking into existence,
please, no, if it came out, Ithink it would be uh, a very uh
(27:47):
difficult thing to try and be,as uh I hate the word authentic,
but yeah, as I think that asauthentic as possible with kind
of the way I agree media isright now yeah, and also, how do
you erase someone completelyfrom your mind?
Amy Ellis (28:05):
yeah, they're like living in your smartphone right,
yeah there's a whole it'salmost impossible to erase.
There's more logistics theyhave to go into which that's.
Taylor D. Adams (28:16):
That actually brings me to.
One thing I wanted to talkabout is elijah woods character
and like he's so good, Icompletely creepy guy.
When he first showed up, Iforgot he was in this movie.
That was my first thought.
The second thought was like whydoes he have facial hair?
That's weird, yeah.
And then, as the more the moviewent on, I was like I
completely kind of forgot aboutthis story with him.
(28:38):
Is that he basically weaponizedmemories?
Yeah which I'm like that's aproblem, yeah, so who do?
you think's better looking,maybe this guy.
Patrick, let's roll with thisbuddy.
Remember that girl we did lastweek.
Amy Ellis (28:55):
The one with the potatoes, that girl yeah, that's
this guy's girl.
Her friend yeah Well, it's goodname was Take care of that, oh
Well, uh, I kind of fell in lovewith her that night.
What you little fuck.
(29:17):
She was unconscious man.
Taylor D. Adams (29:20):
Well, she was beautiful and I stole a pair of
her panties as well, jesus.
Amy Ellis (29:31):
They're just like.
You can grab any file you wantand just decide that you can
feed off of this person's likecomfort and memory and know
everything about them.
It's not good.
Taylor D. Adams (29:39):
And I feel like but that's almost like a common
thing now except everything isdone like virtually that's true,
it's not really done in personthat much anymore but virtually
any kind of catfishing orscamming.
That's basically what a lot ofcharacters do in this movie.
Amy Ellis (29:56):
That's a good point.
And he stole her underwear,which is something that was a
problem.
Taylor D. Adams (30:06):
Something that was a problem, yeah, it was like
there's so many things that, uh, you know, came out over 20
years ago.
We're like, oh, can't reallymake have a movie or a tv show
with that decision anymore.
But it doesn't.
It doesn't detract from thefact that it's still like like
that cringy behavior has meaningyeah, yeah, and so it has like,
yeah he's, he's a completeasshole and that's the point.
Amy Ellis (30:30):
I do like.
One thing about this movie isthat none of the characters are
perfect and they all seem farfrom perfect, which I really
appreciate too.
Taylor D. Adams (30:38):
Yeah, they're all deeply flawed and
unprofessional.
Why are we getting drunk andhigh and jumping on the bed
while someone's sleeping in it?
Amy Ellis (30:48):
It sounds like they do this on a regular basis,
wherever they go.
Taylor D. Adams (30:52):
It's like man report these people to the
Better Business Bureau For real.
Do you have a favorite momentor scene from this movie?
Amy Ellis (30:59):
Um, hmm, yeah, I love the scenes where he hides
Clementine in his childhoodmemories.
Taylor D. Adams (31:11):
I don't know why.
Amy Ellis (31:12):
I just think it's really sweet and beautiful to
suddenly be like oh, this is mychildhood.
No one ever comes here, youknow.
Taylor D. Adams (31:19):
She's not looking at me, she's busy.
She's not looking at me.
No one ever looks at me.
I want my mommy.
Oh, baby Joel.
Hey, joely, is every littlepeanut under there, okay, mm-hmm
, he's fine.
Do you have something to drink?
Amy Ellis (31:34):
Would you drink a cocktail at this hour?
I mean, I know it's not 5.
I would die for a vodka.
Oh, hang on, let me check if Ihave it.
Taylor D. Adams (31:39):
Okay, I'm just gonna wait for it, joel.
Hey, no, sweetie Jolie, yourmother wants me to mind you Get
back under the table.
It's clean.
No, not until after you've hadyour dinner.
Amy Ellis (31:55):
Come on, joel, joel, grow up.
And it also gave Jim Carrey, Ithink, an opportunity to be his.
Ace Ventura self, as opposed toa very sad introverted
character.
His natural comic nature whichmakes sense if he's playing a
kid who's not as reserved.
So I enjoyed that, where I waslike, okay, now he's got a
(32:18):
little time to shine.
But I also really like theending.
The ending, I think, is sosimple and it doesn't take a lot
of tying up.
Taylor D. Adams (32:31):
I'm not a concept, Joel.
I'm just a fucked up girl who'slooking for my own peace of
mind.
I'm not perfect.
I can't see anything that Idon't like about you.
But you will Right now.
I can't.
Amy Ellis (32:40):
But you will.
Taylor D. Adams (32:42):
You know you will think of things and I'll
get bored with you and feeltrapped, because that's what
happens with me.
Amy Ellis (32:49):
Okay, Okay, Okay.
It's just like oh okay, we knowwhat happened.
Do we want to do it again?
(33:10):
Is it worth it?
And then it's just like the endof the movie and it was just
kind of like an enlighteningthing to watch when you're young
.
Just be like, oh, outcomesaren't everything.
Taylor D. Adams (33:21):
That's what you took away from that.
Amy Ellis (33:22):
Yeah, I think.
Well, I don't know if I wasreally thinking about it that
much at 15, but I was alwayssomeone who never desired to get
like married right out ofcollege, even though that was a
big thing for everybody else,especially growing up as like a
conservative christian or in aconservative christian family.
Um, that's just like whateverybody did, and I was someone
(33:45):
who never wanted kids.
I had a lot of ideas and plansand I was just like why, why is
everyone wanting to suddenlylike tie themselves down and get
into this like relationshipwhere you don't get to put
yourself first, at least forlike a few years, when you
finally become an adult and havefreedom, right?
And and it was eye opening tolike see a couple it wasn't a
(34:08):
fall in love get married happily.
Ever after it was like, oh,we're going to go through this
relationship and it may not last, but like why does that have to
be the only option?
Like we can also just enjoythis relationship for what it is
and then move on from it.
And it was kind of like, oh, Ilike that Not every relationship
has to be the end goal of, youknow, total happiness together
(34:33):
forever, kind of a thing.
Taylor D. Adams (34:35):
Right, I love that it was.
I mean, a lot of movies and TVshows or whatever are love
stories.
I love that this is a lovestory, but it's not about like,
yeah, it's not about fairytaleendings or even um, the real
love was the friends we madealong the way.
Nothing like kind of like copout like that.
(34:55):
It was more like yeah, this,you people will.
Relationships will come and goin your life and it it's up to
you to kind of like determinewhat you take from them exactly.
Amy Ellis (35:09):
Yeah, you can learn from them and yeah, you can just
move on.
I knew a lot of kids growing updating and I guess this is what
all kids do, but they woulddate for like two weeks and be
like we love each other andwe're together forever and
that's like like okay, like slowdown.
I just thought those peoplewere crazy.
Taylor D. Adams (35:28):
Oh yeah, I'd be like what we're 12.
Amy Ellis (35:33):
Like what are you talking about?
And was it sixth grade?
I think it was fifth grade.
My fifth grade boyfriend toldme that he loved me and I was
like we're in fifth grade, weneed to dial it down.
Taylor D. Adams (35:47):
Sir mentioned that all these, like everybody
in this movie, is messy like no.
Like everybody is extremelycomplicated.
Is there any one particularperson that you identify with or
relate to more than the others?
Amy Ellis (36:00):
um, honestly, no, I.
I feel like the characters seema lot louder and stronger and
more obvious to me than they didwhen I was younger, but I guess
, probably when I was like 18, Iwas probably Joel, because I
was a I was quiet, peoplepleaser kind of just went along
(36:22):
with everything people said.
And now I'm very much not that,because I've learned to speak up
for myself and like say what Iwant.
Um, so I do love that aboutClementine too, how she like
literally just says what she'sthinking.
But I also think if sheapproached me on a train, I
would be like you scare me.
I'd be like I don't like wherethis is going like you're
(36:43):
beautiful and you seem great,but also I'm a little afraid of
you.
I would not go back to yourhouse, but yeah, I don't know
what about you yeah, I don't.
Taylor D. Adams (36:54):
Yeah, I don't think anybody, I think it's.
I don't want to say it's weirdto identify with any of these
people, because there are peoplethat are like this, like I
identify.
I can relate to parts of Joel,I can relate to parts of
Clementine, um, I can relate toparts of the doctor.
(37:15):
Like there are individualpeople that.
I can see like almost likejustify the behavior, like okay,
I understand why they're doingthat.
Amy Ellis (37:23):
Yeah.
Taylor D. Adams (37:23):
But for me I was, it wasn't, which is weird,
cause it's such.
It's such a great movie thathas a good impact and for me, a
marker or an indicator of if amovie is having a really good
impact on you is that you relateto a person, but this is so
interesting that it's more thatwe relate to.
I mean, you and me, we'rerelating to this concept about,
about, and also the way it'sexecuted.
(37:44):
Like we talked about thefilmmaking part of it, yeah, but
yeah, normally it's about, like, the human connection of things
, and this is, I guess this is amovie about human connection.
So in that sense, that's true,it does work.
Amy Ellis (37:54):
Yeah, like I, I am always someone who is.
How can I relate to thesecharacters and how can I love?
I guess they are still lovablecharacters, but yeah, it's kind
of funny how you find yourselfrooting for them at the end even
though you know it won't workout or most likely won't, unless
they remember certain thingsand work towards fixing it Right
(38:16):
.
But if they don't remember,what if they just go out again,
date for two years, break up andthen erase each other again,
and it's just a forever cycle.
Taylor D. Adams (38:26):
I know which I think is super interesting,
because the movie like is like,it starts off in that direct
like it's almost like leading tothe fact that this will happen
again.
You know, ok, what time is like.
What is the third time Likeit's another, it's like a time
loop movie.
Yeah, yeah, if you, if you hadto pair, if you had a double
feature at your house with thismovie and another movie it could
(38:50):
be any movie what would it bePart of me wants to say Memento,
because it also involves memory.
Yeah.
And I watched that like threetimes Came out around the same
time.
Yeah.
Amy Ellis (39:05):
Three times in my like film class in high school.
So, I don't honestly remember alot of it.
I need to go watch it again butyou'll probably laugh.
But just because it's also ahuge impact to me in high school
Moulin Rouge, because, likeit's very different.
Taylor D. Adams (39:25):
So this is the Amy Ellis film festival.
Yes, got it.
Amy Ellis (39:28):
The Amy Ellis at 16 film festival.
Taylor D. Adams (39:30):
Okay.
Amy Ellis (39:30):
And Nicole would absolutely be attending.
Taylor D. Adams (39:32):
Okay, yeah, yeah.
This, this show is spoilerfilled, like every episode is
full of spoilers.
But if you had to recommendthis movie to someone who had
not seen it, what's yourelevator pitch?
Amy Ellis (39:47):
Um, it's unlike any movie you've ever seen.
It's low budget but high impact, both visually and mentally.
You get to watch famous actorsplay characters they don't
normally play For both KateWinslet and Jim Carrey, Mm-hmm.
(40:10):
And there are so many littledetails that you will miss the
first time.
That will make you keep wantingto go back to catch them again
and again.
I think that's about it.
Taylor D. Adams (40:24):
Yeah, I had completely forgotten about the
Kirsten Dunst subplot in thismovie.
Yeah, I just had no clue, likeI didn't know where I was going.
Like the hints are always thereand I'm like, oh, she's got a
little crush on.
She's like, really she's got acrush on the doctor and I was
like oh fuck, I totally forgot.
Amy Ellis (40:39):
Oh, no, oh thought was gonna happen.
I knew it.
How it didn't start out to belike this, I came here to work,
carlisle this is a one-timemistake.
Taylor D. Adams (40:50):
I'm a stupid girl with a stupid crush.
I swear, I basically forced himinto it there'll be a monster,
howard, tell the girl tell mewhat oh you poor kid.
Amy Ellis (41:04):
Oh you poor kid, you can have him.
You did well.
Even I told Stephen when he waswatching this for the first
time last week I was like it'snice that she changes her hair
color, because it helps kind ofgive you an idea of timeline.
And he was like well, it mightbe something even deeper than
(41:27):
that.
And we were like huh.
Taylor D. Adams (41:29):
So we looked it up and we were like ah, they
did it again.
They got us, there's anotherdetail I missed.
Amy Ellis (41:35):
Basically, her hair signifies different seasons of
their relationship, so green isthe very beginning.
When they meet growth, newbeginnings.
Taylor D. Adams (41:42):
Okay.
Amy Ellis (41:44):
Red is the second one once they actually start dating
and they have a lot of passionand love, so summer of love kind
of vibe.
Taylor D. Adams (41:52):
Right.
Amy Ellis (41:53):
Then, once they start having their issues and
fighting and bickering, she diesher hair orange, which could be
signified as like fall, or shenames orange agent orange, which
is not great, you know, anotherkind of good descriptor.
And then Winter, when she dyedher hair blue, is when she
(42:16):
erases him and is like grievingthe loss of this relationship.
And I was like dang, that'sactually pretty good.
Taylor D. Adams (42:23):
Yeah, I love little, just aesthetic things
like that that just signifyobvious change.
Like you don't, you're notthinking of it yeah but then
when you, then when the truth isrevealed to you're like you
know what?
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Amy Ellis (42:36):
Or even just like the tiny moments where he goes to
pour a drink and he goes like,oh sorry, I thought I had more.
And then it clicks like, oh,you had more, it was just the
erasers who came into yourapartment, drank all of your
booze, yeah.
So I just love those littlethings where you're like, oh
yeah, yeah, let's make sense nowhow would you take it if
somebody erased you from theirmemory?
(42:56):
I would feel really bad becauseI was I grew up a people pleaser
and I'd be like what did I do?
I'm so sorry, but yeah, I don'tknow.
I guess I'd be a littleoffended because I feel like I
tried pretty hard to be a goodperson.
Taylor D. Adams (43:09):
Would you then like befriend this person who
did not know you anymore and tryto like redo something, like be
better?
That feels Not that the blameis on you.
Amy Ellis (43:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Taylor D. Adams (43:20):
But they felt the need to do something.
Amy Ellis (43:23):
That would feel creepy and wrong to me.
So you wouldn't be elijah wood.
No, no, I wouldn't.
My favorite scene with him iswhen he's already been erased,
but he's like revisiting amemory and you see elijah wood
picking something up off thefloor and he like looks up and
it's his blurred face, with hiseyes upside down, and I was like
(43:44):
his eyes really are.
Taylor D. Adams (43:47):
Oh, joel joel's when joel's going through his
memory.
Amy Ellis (43:49):
Yes, sorry, yeah, when joel's going through his
memories and yeah patrick'sinside of it.
Patrick slash elijah wood rightand I was like that is
terrifying um, I did see that.
Taylor D. Adams (43:58):
I was like what a great way to visually
indicate things you're erasingand changing, like the whole
like, like like glossed overface, like the featureless faces
and the slight distortions ofthings and even in the voices
and stuff.
Amy Ellis (44:12):
It's super yeah, it feels very dreamlike to me, like
when you can't recall whatsomebody looked like.
In a dream like to me, that'skind of what my brain registers
yeah um, and I love when youwatch the scenes happening.
It's almost like you forgetthat what you're watching is a
memory being erased, until yousuddenly see like a sign, just
(44:33):
disappear.
Taylor D. Adams (44:34):
Yeah, something fall like in the, in the
bookstore, when, like, thetitles of the book, sections go
away and the street names onsigns and stuff like that it's
always.
I noticed it this time around.
It's really cool.
Amy Ellis (44:44):
Yeah, I like how subtle it is, but it's
definitely there.
And then all of a sudden,there's like nothing behind them
and you're like, whoa, whatjust happened?
I guess I have a question foryou, shoot.
If you were losing your memory,is that something that would
scare you, or do you think thatyou wouldn't even notice because
you wouldn't know what you weremissing out on?
Taylor D. Adams (45:07):
Well, I feel like if I, if I lose my memory
and there are indicators thatI'm losing my memory like
somebody shows up and says theyknow me and I don't know them,
then, yeah, I'd be freaked out.
Like yeah, memory is a hugeworry for me personally because
I've had like, not one for mepersonally because, I've had
(45:30):
like not one but two, at leasttwo grandparents with dementia
and like, yeah, even on mystepdad's side of the family,
his parents both had alzheimer's.
So it's like that's been aroundlike my life, and so that
really does frighten me.
But this can be.
This could be complete bullshitand unhealthy, but I like the
theory that these cognitiveconditions are actually our
(45:57):
minds expanding beyond time yeah, I like that we're both living
in the present, in the past atthe same time.
Amy Ellis (46:06):
I like that a lot.
Taylor D. Adams (46:07):
Was it you that told me this story about?
There was like a woman who haddementia and thought her bedroom
was on fire.
Yes, can you tell me that?
Can you tell me?
Amy Ellis (46:17):
that real quick, oh my God.
So if anyone is curious aboutmore stories like this, there's
an Instagram account named NurseHadley and she wrote a book
about being a hospice nurse andlike just interesting
experiences she's had and itprobably brings a lot of comfort
to people who are like grievingor having to face being mortal.
(46:39):
But one of her stories includesa woman who had Alzheimer's and
she was in hospice and herhusband called this nurse saying
she will not sleep.
She's just walking around theroom pacing, saying that the
house or that that room is onfire and she won't get in the
bed because it's on fire.
And she came over and was like,well, instead of saying there
(47:02):
isn't a fire, you need toacknowledge that to her there is
and move the bed.
So they moved the bed intoanother room.
She went into the other room,fell asleep, no problem.
Um, she passed away and I thinkit was like a month maybe.
After she passed away, thehusband called the nurse and
said there was a fire in thatroom and to me it's kind of like
(47:23):
maybe it is this expanding ofthe mind that, like you might
know more and that's why youjust don't remember things.
Taylor D. Adams (47:31):
Yeah, because we can't handle everything
Exactly Crazy.
Well, amy, thanks so much fortalking with me about this movie
and getting me to rewatch it,because I hadn't seen it since
probably around the time it cameout, so this was awesome.
Amy Ellis (47:44):
Thanks for having me.
You got me to rewatch it, butit all took a long time since
I'd seen it, so thank you.
Taylor D. Adams (47:52):
So that's it.
I hope you wouldn't choose toforget the last 40-ish minutes
of your time, because I had agreat time chatting with a
friend.
Plenty of bad things can happento us and I realized the next
thing I'm about to say comesfrom a privileged point of view.
But there are a lot of greatmoments that happen in our lives
that go along with thosemoments that we wish we'd forget
(48:14):
.
But the Lacuna Incorporatedprocedure isn't real.
So here's hoping all of thepositive moments in your lives
outweigh the bad, so you canappreciate all of the nuances of
life and relationships.
A huge thanks to Amy forchatting with me today and an
unforgettable thank you to youfor watching, listening, joining
us today or even all season.
(48:36):
If you wanna check out some ofAmy's work, I highly suggest you
do.
You can check out some of thelinks to that in the show notes.
If you enjoyed the show today,please go ahead and subscribe on
your favorite podcast platformof choice to stay up to date on
all of our episodes.
And if you happen to belistening to this on Apple
Podcasts, please leave a ratingand review.
Leaving a rating and reviewhelps us get noticed by more
(48:56):
awesome people like yourself.
If you're really enjoying theshow and you want to help
support us and maybe get alittle bit bigger and better and
get some cool perks in theprocess, please consider backing
us on Patreon.
You can find links to that inthe show notes below or visit
patreoncom.
Slash film nuts Our theme thisseason has been brought to us by
the deep end.
Our artwork is designed by ourhead of production is Keaton
(49:20):
Lusk, and all episodes of thefilm nuts podcast are produced
and edited by me, taylor D Adams.
If you want to get in touch,you can email filmnutspodcasts
at gmailcom or follow us onInstagram and TikTok at
filmnutspodcasts.
And one last thing don't forgetto join the Nuthouse Discord
community absolutely free bychecking out the link in the
(49:40):
show notes.
There's some really cool folksin there and that's where I'll
be hanging out until our nextseason.
Thank you all again.
So much for joining us todayand all season long.
So between now and when thenext episode comes out, meet me
in Montauk.
Hi, I'm sorry, I just said hi, hi, hello, hi.
Okay, if I sit closer, how farare you going?
Uh, rockville Center Get out Metoo.
Really.
Amy Ellis (00:19):
What are the odds?
Taylor D. Adams (00:23):
Do I know you.
What are the odds?
Amy Ellis (00:29):
Do I know you?
Do you ever shop at Barnes andNoble?
It's unlike any movie you'veever seen.
It's low budget but high impact, both visually and mentally.
It had a huge impact on mebecoming an adult or as a
teenager, Just the way that itshowed visually how you can look
at memories and just theprocess of forgetting memories
(00:54):
or just thinking back to whatthey used to be.
Taylor D. Adams (01:01):
Hi, I'm Taylor and welcome to the season four
finale of the Film Nuts podcast,a show about why we love what
we watch.
I'm so glad you've been on thisjourney with me and, if you're
actually new to the podcast,we've got over 50 episodes that
you can go listen to right now.
If you enjoy this one.
For today's episode, let's talkabout.
(01:21):
Wait, what are we talking about?
Sorry, I forget shit all thetime.
Sometimes I even forget toupload these episodes on time.
I don't know if it's just myoccasional scatterbrained nature
or what, but I'm fairly certainit's not because I've had any
particular procedure done.
At least, I don't think so.
(01:44):
Eternal Sunshine of the SpotlessMind, starring Jim Carrey and
Kate Winslet, is a story abouttwo lovers who erase each other
from their memories.
It's funny and emotional andposes a lot of interesting
questions on the nature ofrelationships, a central one of
them being do the badexperiences we have justify the
elimination of the good ones,which is a great topic of
(02:05):
discussion for my guest today.
Amy Ellis is a photographer whodefines her job as capturing
memories, so you can see how itmakes sense that Eternal
Sunshine of the Spinal's Mindwould be a film of interest to
her.
Along with being a talentedphotographer, amy is also one of
my partner Nicole's bestfriends, so we've known each
other for over a decade.
In our fun chat, amy and I talkabout the messiness of
(02:27):
relationships, our fear oflosing memory and, of course,
kate Winslet's hair color.
No need to schedule anappointment, because right now
here's Amy Ellis talking abouteternal sunshine of the spotless
mind on the season four finaleof the film.
That's podcast.
I don't think we've known eachother for a long time, but I
(02:49):
don't think I've ever asked youlike what actually got you first
interested in photography um,my brother when I was a freshman
in high school.
Amy Ellis (02:59):
He was a senior and he took the high school film
class and by film I mean likefilm photo, right um.
So our high school had a darkroom and I ended up taking that
after seeing him take somereally awesome film photos from
the grand canyon they actuallywent on a field trip and I
really wanted to go to the grandcanyon the next year and they
(03:20):
canceled it and I was really sadjerks yeah, but um, I got into
it from there so I've been doingit for a long time and I was
hooked and I was really sadJerks, yeah, but I got into it
from there.
So I've been doing it for a longtime and I was hooked and I was
like, well, I don't want to doanything else, so I will just
figure out a way to make moneywith this.
Taylor D. Adams (03:34):
What was it about that process that you
liked so much?
Amy Ellis (03:40):
Well, not that I really shoot film anymore Well,
not that I really shoot filmanymore but I feel like it's a
high value job if you can makeit work Like I'm someone who
preserves memories and picturesof people, which is a pretty
valuable thing, if you ask me.
Taylor D. Adams (03:59):
Yeah so.
Amy Ellis (03:59):
I feel like I am contributing to society and
personal lives in a really niceway and I think I noticed that
taking pictures of my family andfriends in high school.
Taylor D. Adams (04:09):
Right, so you started taking the pictures, and
then you began to realize theimportance of that action?
Amy Ellis (04:15):
Yeah, and that was before Instagram and all the
aesthetic.
Taylor D. Adams (04:19):
So when you realized that you kind of
enjoyed this process ofpreserving memory, realize that
you kind of enjoyed this processof preserve, preserving memory.
But when you told me that youwanted to talk about eternal
sunshine of the spotless mind, Iwas like this kind of this
makes sense.
But also the opposite but alsoit's the opposite of what makes
sense for this.
So why?
Why did you want to talk aboutthis movie?
Amy Ellis (04:39):
um, it was.
It had a huge impact on mebecoming an adult or as a
teenager, because it came outwhen I was 14.
And I remember, once it cameout, just the way that it showed
visually how you can look atmemories and just the process of
(05:01):
forgetting memories or justthinking back to what they used
to be.
It was just a beautiful thing.
I could die right now, glenn,I'm just happy.
Taylor D. Adams (05:20):
I've never felt that before.
I'm just exactly where I wantto be.
Amy Ellis (05:35):
Glenn.
Taylor D. Adams (05:42):
We're going off .
I'll give you a sign.
Amy Ellis (05:51):
I'm gonna call it off .
Can you hear me?
I don't want this anymore.
I'm gonna call it off and Iwould be in my art class and
just like pop in the soundtrackand just paint, you know, and I
mean, and in the dark room too,and it was just.
It had a huge effect on me andit was just a beautiful story
and it was a movie unlikeanything I'd ever seen.
(06:13):
And I can still say that tothis day, because there's really
nothing like it.
Taylor D. Adams (06:18):
Yeah, I was noticing that, cause I I don't
think I seen it since probablycollege, like not when it came
out, but you know, on the rentfrom blockbuster or something
like that, or like one of my,one of my college roommates
owned it.
So this most recent timewatching it it's one of Nicole's
favorite movies too and she wastotally down to rewatch it for
(06:38):
this and I was watching it I waslike I forget that it's a.
It's a science fiction movieand the way that it conveys
sci-fi is so like grounded, likeit doesn't do anything like
over the top or crazy with thespecial effects or like CGI or
anything like that.
Like everything, like the actof memories disappearing is
(07:01):
showcased by just like lightsgoing out and stuff, which I
think is super cool and a reallylike grounded, raw way to kind
of convey that idea yeah, Iagree I also.
Amy Ellis (07:14):
I feel like in my mind how, when, like in scenes
where they go back to revisitmemories that have already been
erased, or like hiding indifferent memories.
In my mind that's probably whatit's like, how your brain is
working.
So I love it.
It doesn't feel sci-fi at all.
Taylor D. Adams (07:31):
Yeah yeah that totally makes sense to me do you
remember the first time you sawthis?
What, who were you with?
Where were you?
What was kind of going on inyour life?
You said you saw it as like a14 year old yeah, I think I was
14 um I don't think I saw it intheaters.
Amy Ellis (07:45):
I'm pretty sure it was like a I don't know about
blockbuster, maybe like anetflix dvd okay via mail okay
um miss those days yeah, me tooit was always fun yeah, it was
very exciting getting in themail.
Um, I thought maybe it would bewith nicole, but I'm honestly
not sure.
And I asked her just a secondago and she said she didn't
think we'd seen it together.
Taylor D. Adams (08:05):
Okay, Well, she was convinced that her and I
went and saw where the wildthings are in the movie theater
and I looked I was like no, wedidn't.
But she was convinced and Ilooked it up and the movie came
out before we were dating.
So I was like no, sorry you'rewrong.
She's like who would I go tothe movies to?
(08:31):
Like you've dated other people.
Oh, she's just erased thosepeople.
I know exactly.
She went through the process.
She called uh what?
the hell's the name of the thing, uh, lacuna, yeah, she called
lacuna and was like I need toerase everyone but my boyfriend,
my boyfriend, um, so what'sinteresting is, like to me,
eternal sunshine of the spot wasfine, just that name.
Not knowing what it's about, Iautomatically think it's like
the most pretentious thing I'veever heard of.
(08:52):
Yeah, but like but.
But it's because I know nothingabout the movie and also I had
a kind of a hesitancy towardthis movie because everybody
that I knew in college thatloved this movie movie, excuse
me was like in the uh, indie, uh, hipster, you know, artistic,
not to say that anything that iswrong, but that wasn't my vibe.
(09:14):
So I was very hesitant to watchthis or really appreciate it.
Um, but watching that was likeno, this movie rules, uh, but
with with that title like to youit's from a longer poem by
alexander pope, but the titleitself for this movie.
What does that mean to you?
Amy Ellis (09:33):
well, it's funny you mentioned the whole uh like
indie vibe, because when I wasin high school that's who I
wanted to be.
That was who I truly wasstriving to be, and so I also
think when you're like 14 or 15,at least, I was someone who was
starting to read books thatactually had a little philosophy
(09:56):
in them, and so I was suddenlylike I want to be a deep person,
but when you're 15, you're notas deep as you think you are.
So, when I heard EternalSunshine of the Spotless mind, I
was like I don't know what thatmeans, but I have to watch it
gets to people going yeah,you're like this sounds
ridiculous.
I'm in.
Yeah, it's clearly deep, it'sthere's something right right,
yeah, so I don't know.
(10:17):
Now, I guess, in a way I see itas like ignorance is bliss and
I forget the whole.
um quote that from the movie,including the movie title.
But it's beautiful, but I don'tknow if I could quite like
break down.
I think I want to like know thewhole poem.
Taylor D. Adams (10:37):
It's a very long poem.
Amy Ellis (10:38):
Oh, it is.
Taylor D. Adams (10:39):
Yeah, it's very long oh okay, it's very long
and that's just just a couplelines.
Amy Ellis (10:45):
The lines that Kirsten Dunst says is like four
lines the quote goes how happyis the blameless vessel's lot,
the world forgetting by theworld forgot Eternal sunshine of
a spotless mind.
Each prayer accepted and eachwish resigned.
(11:06):
I wanna be a great big, hugeelephant With a huge trunk like
that.
Taylor D. Adams (11:15):
One more time.
It is very much about kind of,yeah, ignorance is not,
ignorance is bliss, bliss, butsomething along the lines of how
, like pivoting that toward likeinnocence.
Yeah, it's, it's interesting,and there's a whole like.
I could go on.
(11:36):
It's like the whole backstoryof like why alexander pope wrote
that poem and all this otherstuff.
But people can go look thatstuff up because it's way more
highbrow than I'm capable ofunderstanding.
So I do have to ask you thisthough Would you ever erase
anything or anybody from yourmemory?
Amy Ellis (11:58):
No, but I also realize I'm saying that as
someone with a fairly privilegedlife and, yes, I've gone
through bad things, but like Ifeel like I have come on the
other side in a very good way.
But again, I know that thereare other people out there that
would be like that's becauseyou've got to your life's just
fine, which it probably is.
Taylor D. Adams (12:16):
What about you?
Yeah, I don't know.
I mean, yeah, anything that Icould potentially see is maybe
something that'd be nice tonever think about again.
I'd be like, okay, but it wasso minuscule that I rarely think
about it anyway.
Yeah.
Amy Ellis (12:31):
Like a middle school embarrassment that like shows
back up in your mind at 10o'clock when you're trying to go
to sleep.
Taylor D. Adams (12:37):
Yeah.
Amy Ellis (12:37):
That would be great.
You know a person not so much.
Taylor D. Adams (12:41):
What kind of middle school embarrassment
comes up for you?
I don't want to talk about it.
Well, I think the the theanother question to go along
with that kind of thought is,especially with this movie, with
the characters that go throughthese, this procedure with
Lacuna, not even the maincharacters, like, is the pain
(13:04):
that is experienced worth thelove?
Basically?
Amy Ellis (13:10):
Well, it's interesting you ask that
question Because my partner andI, when I watched it, just to
revamp my memory, he went on adeep dive and found a fact that
was basically saying saying theyoriginally planned to include a
few other you know, very minorcharacters like extras, showing
(13:30):
them, um, also at lacuna to gettheir memories erased.
And it was a I think it was asexual assault victim and a
veteran who wanted to forget hisfriends from war like he had
lost.
And they ended up taking it outbecause they realized that it
would suddenly become a muchbigger discussion and not focus
(13:51):
on the love story that they'retrying to tell yeah which I feel
like if that's their goal, thenthey did a great job and it was
wise to not take it out.
But that really does open updoors for like whole other
discussions, because they show awoman in the waiting room with
like a box full of things,trying to forget her dog and I'm
like, as you know, my cat justdied and it was terrible and I'm
sad, but I would never want toforget any like moment with him
(14:14):
so like you're grieving, butusually grieving just means that
you love that person or thatanimal yeah, so to me when it
comes to that situation.
I never would, but I also don'twant to speak for somebody else.
Taylor D. Adams (14:28):
I don't know yeah, I think for the movie
itself it handles by keeping itfocused, it makes it like a good
, effective, enjoyable movie towatch, yeah, um, but to have
like.
But on the outskirts are allthese things, are all these like
hints of people that have gonethrough this without actually
like going into detail theirwhole backstory, which I don't
(14:50):
think you need to Like the womanin the waiting room with the
box full of her dog stuff, I'mlike, ok, she's in the waiting
room, you understand exactlywhat she's doing there.
Yeah, and then the fact, too,when we just every time we see
just a bunch of files, we'relike, oh, a bunch of people have
thought about doing this andhave gone through this whole
thing, and I think there waslike one throwaway line of a
woman calling in to like get theprocedure done, and Kirsten
(15:11):
Dunst is like it's only beenthree weeks since your last one,
we can't do that, which I'mlike oof that's tough Um so
(15:33):
beyond kind of well.
no, actually, when you'rethinking about what you do as a
photographer and the fact thatyou are preserving memories like
no-transcript.
Amy Ellis (15:41):
Oh, I don't know Um, it sounds kind of morbid to say,
but, like, since we werealready talking about the
grieving aspect of losing people, I have had multiple people
throughout the years cause I'vebeen doing this for over 10
years now who will reach out tome when they have a parent die
or a grandparent die or someonereally close in their family,
(16:03):
and they say thank you so muchfor these photos, like they're
the best photos we have of themand we look at them daily and
like we really treasure them.
So I usually get thank yousduring, like, the hardest parts
of people's lives.
So it's terrible news for me toreceive, but it also is this
validation of like you're doingsomething good and meaningful
(16:23):
for other people.
So, yeah, it's kind of kind ofa weird way to feel valued, but
it's still important is that Imean not to dig on the
morbidness of this, but oh, Ilove going morbid.
We can get so morbid but is thatthat's?
Taylor D. Adams (16:41):
is that a different feeling than taking
beautiful pictures at somebody'swedding and handing them to
them?
Amy Ellis (16:48):
No, I mean, I think, being able to also give people
physical evidence of like, lookat this love that you have,
especially in this season ofyour life.
You never want to forget this.
That is also just as meaningful.
Never want to forget this, thatis also just as meaningful.
Um, yeah, I guess it's funnybecause I probably have become,
(17:10):
I guess, less sensitive to that.
Taylor D. Adams (17:11):
Just because I do it so much, I don't think
about it as much as I do whenpeople reach out as like thank
yous otherwise but yeah, so likewhen you meet with just a
potential person you're going tobe working with to photograph
either a family portrait or anevent they're having, or what
have you Like?
What are, what are some of thequestions you ask them in order
(17:36):
to get a better idea of how tobest capture what they want
captured capture what they wantcaptured.
Amy Ellis (17:48):
Um, at this point, you honestly, one of my biggest
questions is what is mostimportant to you on your wedding
day?
And like, what do you want toremember?
And same thing with family,like, tell me about your family,
what is most important to you?
And like, why do you want thesephotos?
Basically, why are we doingthis?
And I guess, when it comes tohow I capture it, I think I have
(18:09):
a style now that's fairlydocumentary style, that people
just know and I reiterate whenwe talk at our consultation, I
don't step in, I make things orallow things happen as they do,
and I don't want to interrupt ameaningful moment or turn it
into a production in any way,because it's so easy to, like
(18:30):
when a mom's putting on abride's dress, to like ask them
to move for an angle to get thelight better.
My style is the light justwon't be exactly perfect,
because this is the real momentthat's happening.
And why should I interrupt it?
Because it's still a beautifulmoment.
Taylor D. Adams (18:47):
Yeah, I think one of the one of the few times
I've had like my picture takenlike as an adult.
One of the photographers wasvery like prompt heavy and I was
not.
It was like pictures andpictures of me and Nicole and
the photographers like act likeyou love each other and I'm like
(19:07):
that's what you got Yikes.
Amy Ellis (19:10):
That must have been a bad day.
Taylor D. Adams (19:11):
Wasn't the best .
That's funny, but then we gotthis woman named Amy Ellis to
take our photos and they lookedphenomenal.
Amy Ellis (19:18):
What See?
I feel like I have to be alittle prompt, heavy, for you
know, portraits as opposed toshowing up to a wedding, because
, like wedding, the day justunfolds, and if you like have
two people show up, it's justlike be you.
And then you're like what do Ido?
Taylor D. Adams (19:32):
So, it's good, but I feel like if you make it a
setting and a place that isvery you and give each other
meaningful discussion to talkabout during it all, it can
actually be a a nice memory tiedin to the act of taking
pictures what I really likeabout what you previously said,
(19:56):
combined with this movie, isthat these memories, that
basically joel has to relive hismemories in order for them to
be erased, that basically Joelhas to relive his memories in
order for them to be erased, andthe fact that all these
memories are messy, like none ofthem are perfect.
Amy Ellis (20:10):
I tell you everything , every damn embarrassing thing.
You don't trust me.
Taylor D. Adams (20:20):
Constantly talking isn't necessarily
communicating.
Amy Ellis (20:26):
I don't do that.
I want to know you Hmm.
Taylor D. Adams (20:35):
I don't constantly talk Jesus.
Jesus, people have to sharethings, joel.
That's what intimacy is reallypissed that you said that to me.
I'm sorry.
I think that's been brought upa lot on this podcast is like
what if the thing we're talkingabout got remade and the first
thing we go is god, no.
Amy Ellis (20:56):
But then the second is like what?
Taylor D. Adams (20:58):
how would it be different if this movie, if
eternal sunshine of the spotlessmind was, say, remade within
the next five years?
How different do you think itwould be?
Not from, like aesthetically,but the memories that are
portrayed.
How do you think they would bedifferent?
(21:18):
Oh, I don't know, I don't know.
The initial thing I think of isthe fact that we're we're
living in a time where memoriesare commodified with social
media and so everything is likeperfect, and even the things
that aren't perfect arepurposely not like.
They're structured to be notperfect, and so I'm curious if,
(21:41):
like the memories that new Joelgoes through, look something
like that.
Amy Ellis (21:47):
Yeah, that's a great question, because one of my
favorite things about the movieis that it is messy and he
sleeps on a pullout couch, andwell, that's one thing I love
(22:08):
about their love, too is thattheir relationship is like it
doesn't require money, itdoesn't require a lot.
They literally make the mostout of the most mundane moments,
and so when he's reliving thesememories, it's like maybe they
can't afford to drive in movies,so they pull to the like edge
of the wall where they can stillsee it and then they like make
up a script, while the peopleare talking, but can't you see?
Taylor D. Adams (22:24):
I love you, antoine.
Hmm, lucky me, lay one on me.
Don't call me Antoine.
My name is Wally.
Yes, I know, but how can awoman love a man with a name
like Wally?
Oh, what was that?
Hey, oh my was that?
(22:45):
Hey, oh my God, there's peoplecoming out of your butt.
Amy Ellis (22:47):
There is, and you know they sneak into a movie, I
think, in one of the deletedscenes and I don't know Like
they literally and I love thistoo, because it doesn't make
sense and it's weird, but alsosome couples would understand it
they suffocate each other forfun, not in like a sexual way,
but it's just like a weird thingthat couples I guess do, and I
(23:12):
feel like every couple has thatone weird thing that doesn't
make sense to other people, butit's just like it's not a a
pretty movie.
Yeah, the aesthetics just don'texist and I think that's why
it's so beautiful to me.
Still and I feel like it wouldbe it would look very different.
These days, everything has to,yeah, everything is so curated,
and I feel like the way theytold their story was just like
(23:37):
2004 yeah just completelythemselves, not worried about
what other people thought oftheir living
situations and stuff.
But yeah, I think, oh god, Ifeel like it would be such a bad
movie now.
But to be fair too, I mean, ifyou want to factor in things
like covid and thinking abouthow weddings have changed,
(24:00):
everyone went from being like Iwant these.
I have this grand vision of awedding, and this is me speaking
personally.
It's like here's my vision, Iwant this aesthetic to.
I literally just want to have agreat time with my people and
remember it and like that's ahuge change.
And people are just kind of overthe BS of putting on a show.
Taylor D. Adams (24:19):
Yeah.
Amy Ellis (24:20):
So hopefully that would also look different in the
movie.
Taylor D. Adams (24:27):
So sorry for the interruption, but I will be
brief.
I am so grateful that youdecided to listen to the Film
Nuts podcast today.
If you are enjoying what you'rehearing, please consider
supporting the show on Patreon.
With a small monthly amount,you can get access to behind the
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on what movie we watch the firstMonday of every month on the
(24:48):
Nuthouse Discord.
The Nuthouse itself is free tojoin and is full of other film
and TV lovers, so you'll fitright in.
You can check out info on allthese things in the show notes,
and if all of this sounds like abit too much, that's totally
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But if you want to keep up todate on all of our episodes,
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And if you're listening onApple podcasts, go ahead and
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(25:11):
awesome people like yourself.
Okay, enough of me rambling backto the good stuff.
Going off of what you saidabout how people's kind of
attitudes have been changedabout event uh, capturing event
uh, covid and beyond, I thinklike that seems like a benefit
to me, is like to me, like.
(25:31):
The important stuff is is therealness and the like, what
actually happened, and notconstructing something.
I'll go back to the.
I'll go back to the photo shootthat Nicole and I did.
Uh right, I had a mixedfeelings about the photographer.
Amy Ellis (25:48):
It could have been totally me, though, cause
sometimes she's totallylistening to this right now and
being like stop talking shitabout it.
Taylor D. Adams (25:54):
But for me it's very much like shit.
Well, her and I've agreed itwas very much me, it was my it
was like it was, I was in myhead about things and like it
was it was it was.
Amy Ellis (26:03):
Photos aren't for everybody, so if you want it to
be, I am.
Taylor D. Adams (26:05):
I am weird.
I sometimes I you know, veryrecently I've gotten Over Not a
fear of being photographed, butI used to not like photos of
myself.
Yeah, and very recently I'vegotten over that and I'm like,
ok, all right, I'm getting usedto it.
But an interesting story waswhen we were first planning to
do these photos, these familyphotos, it poured down.
(26:30):
Rain that day poured down andit was canceled and I was like
why?
Amy Ellis (26:35):
did we cancel it.
Taylor D. Adams (26:36):
I feel like that could have been really fun,
like, because, if we all havethis attitude like, this is
ridiculous, like let's make thisas fun as possible, cause it's
not an ideal scenario, so it'salmost like an over correction
of the fact that your weatherconditions aren't perfect, so,
like these photos aren't goingto be perfect, so let's lean,
let's have fun, like, and Ithink, uh, just embracing the
(27:02):
kind of like non-structure, Ithink that pivot like you were
talking about.
I think, personally, I like apivot like that where things are
a little bit more natural,cause you'll remember, you know,
if, let's say, somebody'swedding goes really well, except
like, uh, like when they wereleaving with the spark horse, it
poured down rain, like though.
(27:23):
But you'll, they'll rememberthose photos though, of them
soaking wet, running to the limo, like.
That'll be a fun, yeah, story totell exactly, I'm with you yeah
, and I think if this movietried to uh, if this new
iteration that were hopefullynot speaking into existence,
please, no, if it came out, Ithink it would be uh, a very uh
(27:47):
difficult thing to try and be,as uh I hate the word authentic,
but yeah, as I think that asauthentic as possible with kind
of the way I agree media isright now yeah, and also, how do
you erase someone completelyfrom your mind?
Amy Ellis (28:05):
yeah, they're like living in your smartphone right,
yeah there's a whole it'salmost impossible to erase.
There's more logistics theyhave to go into which that's.
Taylor D. Adams (28:16):
That actually brings me to.
One thing I wanted to talkabout is elijah woods character
and like he's so good, Icompletely creepy guy.
When he first showed up, Iforgot he was in this movie.
That was my first thought.
The second thought was like whydoes he have facial hair?
That's weird, yeah.
And then, as the more the moviewent on, I was like I
completely kind of forgot aboutthis story with him.
(28:38):
Is that he basically weaponizedmemories?
Yeah which I'm like that's aproblem, yeah, so who do?
you think's better looking,maybe this guy.
Patrick, let's roll with thisbuddy.
Remember that girl we did lastweek.
Amy Ellis (28:55):
The one with the potatoes, that girl yeah, that's
this guy's girl.
Her friend yeah Well, it's goodname was Take care of that, oh
Well, uh, I kind of fell in lovewith her that night.
What you little fuck.
(29:17):
She was unconscious man.
Taylor D. Adams (29:20):
Well, she was beautiful and I stole a pair of
her panties as well, jesus.
Amy Ellis (29:31):
They're just like.
You can grab any file you wantand just decide that you can
feed off of this person's likecomfort and memory and know
everything about them.
It's not good.
Taylor D. Adams (29:39):
And I feel like but that's almost like a common
thing now except everything isdone like virtually that's true,
it's not really done in personthat much anymore but virtually
any kind of catfishing orscamming.
That's basically what a lot ofcharacters do in this movie.
Amy Ellis (29:56):
That's a good point.
And he stole her underwear,which is something that was a
problem.
Taylor D. Adams (30:06):
Something that was a problem, yeah, it was like
there's so many things that, uh, you know, came out over 20
years ago.
We're like, oh, can't reallymake have a movie or a tv show
with that decision anymore.
But it doesn't.
It doesn't detract from thefact that it's still like like
that cringy behavior has meaningyeah, yeah, and so it has like,
yeah he's, he's a completeasshole and that's the point.
Amy Ellis (30:30):
I do like.
One thing about this movie isthat none of the characters are
perfect and they all seem farfrom perfect, which I really
appreciate too.
Taylor D. Adams (30:38):
Yeah, they're all deeply flawed and
unprofessional.
Why are we getting drunk andhigh and jumping on the bed
while someone's sleeping in it?
Amy Ellis (30:48):
It sounds like they do this on a regular basis,
wherever they go.
Taylor D. Adams (30:52):
It's like man report these people to the
Better Business Bureau For real.
Do you have a favorite momentor scene from this movie?
Amy Ellis (30:59):
Um, hmm, yeah, I love the scenes where he hides
Clementine in his childhoodmemories.
Taylor D. Adams (31:11):
I don't know why.
Amy Ellis (31:12):
I just think it's really sweet and beautiful to
suddenly be like oh, this is mychildhood.
No one ever comes here, youknow.
Taylor D. Adams (31:19):
She's not looking at me, she's busy.
She's not looking at me.
No one ever looks at me.
I want my mommy.
Oh, baby Joel.
Hey, joely, is every littlepeanut under there, okay, mm-hmm
, he's fine.
Do you have something to drink?
Amy Ellis (31:34):
Would you drink a cocktail at this hour?
I mean, I know it's not 5.
I would die for a vodka.
Oh, hang on, let me check if Ihave it.
Taylor D. Adams (31:39):
Okay, I'm just gonna wait for it, joel.
Hey, no, sweetie Jolie, yourmother wants me to mind you Get
back under the table.
It's clean.
No, not until after you've hadyour dinner.
Amy Ellis (31:55):
Come on, joel, joel, grow up.
And it also gave Jim Carrey, Ithink, an opportunity to be his.
Ace Ventura self, as opposed toa very sad introverted
character.
His natural comic nature whichmakes sense if he's playing a
kid who's not as reserved.
So I enjoyed that, where I waslike, okay, now he's got a
(32:18):
little time to shine.
But I also really like theending.
The ending, I think, is sosimple and it doesn't take a lot
of tying up.
Taylor D. Adams (32:31):
I'm not a concept, Joel.
I'm just a fucked up girl who'slooking for my own peace of
mind.
I'm not perfect.
I can't see anything that Idon't like about you.
But you will Right now.
I can't.
Amy Ellis (32:40):
But you will.
Taylor D. Adams (32:42):
You know you will think of things and I'll
get bored with you and feeltrapped, because that's what
happens with me.
Amy Ellis (32:49):
Okay, Okay, Okay.
It's just like oh okay, we knowwhat happened.
Do we want to do it again?
(33:10):
Is it worth it?
And then it's just like the endof the movie and it was just
kind of like an enlighteningthing to watch when you're young
.
Just be like, oh, outcomesaren't everything.
Taylor D. Adams (33:21):
That's what you took away from that.
Amy Ellis (33:22):
Yeah, I think.
Well, I don't know if I wasreally thinking about it that
much at 15, but I was alwayssomeone who never desired to get
like married right out ofcollege, even though that was a
big thing for everybody else,especially growing up as like a
conservative christian or in aconservative christian family.
Um, that's just like whateverybody did, and I was someone
(33:45):
who never wanted kids.
I had a lot of ideas and plansand I was just like why, why is
everyone wanting to suddenlylike tie themselves down and get
into this like relationshipwhere you don't get to put
yourself first, at least forlike a few years, when you
finally become an adult and havefreedom, right?
And and it was eye opening tolike see a couple it wasn't a
(34:08):
fall in love get married happily.
Ever after it was like, oh,we're going to go through this
relationship and it may not last, but like why does that have to
be the only option?
Like we can also just enjoythis relationship for what it is
and then move on from it.
And it was kind of like, oh, Ilike that Not every relationship
has to be the end goal of, youknow, total happiness together
(34:33):
forever, kind of a thing.
Taylor D. Adams (34:35):
Right, I love that it was.
I mean, a lot of movies and TVshows or whatever are love
stories.
I love that this is a lovestory, but it's not about like,
yeah, it's not about fairytaleendings or even um, the real
love was the friends we madealong the way.
Nothing like kind of like copout like that.
(34:55):
It was more like yeah, this,you people will.
Relationships will come and goin your life and it it's up to
you to kind of like determinewhat you take from them exactly.
Amy Ellis (35:09):
Yeah, you can learn from them and yeah, you can just
move on.
I knew a lot of kids growing updating and I guess this is what
all kids do, but they woulddate for like two weeks and be
like we love each other andwe're together forever and
that's like like okay, like slowdown.
I just thought those peoplewere crazy.
Taylor D. Adams (35:28):
Oh yeah, I'd be like what we're 12.
Amy Ellis (35:33):
Like what are you talking about?
And was it sixth grade?
I think it was fifth grade.
My fifth grade boyfriend toldme that he loved me and I was
like we're in fifth grade, weneed to dial it down.
Taylor D. Adams (35:47):
Sir mentioned that all these, like everybody
in this movie, is messy like no.
Like everybody is extremelycomplicated.
Is there any one particularperson that you identify with or
relate to more than the others?
Amy Ellis (36:00):
um, honestly, no, I.
I feel like the characters seema lot louder and stronger and
more obvious to me than they didwhen I was younger, but I guess
, probably when I was like 18, Iwas probably Joel, because I
was a I was quiet, peoplepleaser kind of just went along
(36:22):
with everything people said.
And now I'm very much not that,because I've learned to speak up
for myself and like say what Iwant.
Um, so I do love that aboutClementine too, how she like
literally just says what she'sthinking.
But I also think if sheapproached me on a train, I
would be like you scare me.
I'd be like I don't like wherethis is going like you're
(36:43):
beautiful and you seem great,but also I'm a little afraid of
you.
I would not go back to yourhouse, but yeah, I don't know
what about you yeah, I don't.
Taylor D. Adams (36:54):
Yeah, I don't think anybody, I think it's.
I don't want to say it's weirdto identify with any of these
people, because there are peoplethat are like this, like I
identify.
I can relate to parts of Joel,I can relate to parts of
Clementine, um, I can relate toparts of the doctor.
(37:15):
Like there are individualpeople that.
I can see like almost likejustify the behavior, like okay,
I understand why they're doingthat.
Amy Ellis (37:23):
Yeah.
Taylor D. Adams (37:23):
But for me I was, it wasn't, which is weird,
cause it's such.
It's such a great movie thathas a good impact and for me, a
marker or an indicator of if amovie is having a really good
impact on you is that you relateto a person, but this is so
interesting that it's more thatwe relate to.
I mean, you and me, we'rerelating to this concept about,
about, and also the way it'sexecuted.
(37:44):
Like we talked about thefilmmaking part of it, yeah, but
yeah, normally it's about, like, the human connection of things
, and this is, I guess this is amovie about human connection.
So in that sense, that's true,it does work.
Amy Ellis (37:54):
Yeah, like I, I am always someone who is.
How can I relate to thesecharacters and how can I love?
I guess they are still lovablecharacters, but yeah, it's kind
of funny how you find yourselfrooting for them at the end even
though you know it won't workout or most likely won't, unless
they remember certain thingsand work towards fixing it Right
(38:16):
.
But if they don't remember,what if they just go out again,
date for two years, break up andthen erase each other again,
and it's just a forever cycle.
Taylor D. Adams (38:26):
I know which I think is super interesting,
because the movie like is like,it starts off in that direct
like it's almost like leading tothe fact that this will happen
again.
You know, ok, what time is like.
What is the third time Likeit's another, it's like a time
loop movie.
Yeah, yeah, if you, if you hadto pair, if you had a double
feature at your house with thismovie and another movie it could
(38:50):
be any movie what would it bePart of me wants to say Memento,
because it also involves memory.
Yeah.
And I watched that like threetimes Came out around the same
time.
Yeah.
Amy Ellis (39:05):
Three times in my like film class in high school.
So, I don't honestly remember alot of it.
I need to go watch it again butyou'll probably laugh.
But just because it's also ahuge impact to me in high school
Moulin Rouge, because, likeit's very different.
Taylor D. Adams (39:25):
So this is the Amy Ellis film festival.
Yes, got it.
Amy Ellis (39:28):
The Amy Ellis at 16 film festival.
Taylor D. Adams (39:30):
Okay.
Amy Ellis (39:30):
And Nicole would absolutely be attending.
Taylor D. Adams (39:32):
Okay, yeah, yeah.
This, this show is spoilerfilled, like every episode is
full of spoilers.
But if you had to recommendthis movie to someone who had
not seen it, what's yourelevator pitch?
Amy Ellis (39:47):
Um, it's unlike any movie you've ever seen.
It's low budget but high impact, both visually and mentally.
You get to watch famous actorsplay characters they don't
normally play For both KateWinslet and Jim Carrey, Mm-hmm.
(40:10):
And there are so many littledetails that you will miss the
first time.
That will make you keep wantingto go back to catch them again
and again.
I think that's about it.
Taylor D. Adams (40:24):
Yeah, I had completely forgotten about the
Kirsten Dunst subplot in thismovie.
Yeah, I just had no clue, likeI didn't know where I was going.
Like the hints are always thereand I'm like, oh, she's got a
little crush on.
She's like, really she's got acrush on the doctor and I was
like oh fuck, I totally forgot.
Amy Ellis (40:39):
Oh, no, oh thought was gonna happen.
I knew it.
How it didn't start out to belike this, I came here to work,
carlisle this is a one-timemistake.
Taylor D. Adams (40:50):
I'm a stupid girl with a stupid crush.
I swear, I basically forced himinto it there'll be a monster,
howard, tell the girl tell mewhat oh you poor kid.
Amy Ellis (41:04):
Oh you poor kid, you can have him.
You did well.
Even I told Stephen when he waswatching this for the first
time last week I was like it'snice that she changes her hair
color, because it helps kind ofgive you an idea of timeline.
And he was like well, it mightbe something even deeper than
(41:27):
that.
And we were like huh.
Taylor D. Adams (41:29):
So we looked it up and we were like ah, they
did it again.
They got us, there's anotherdetail I missed.
Amy Ellis (41:35):
Basically, her hair signifies different seasons of
their relationship, so green isthe very beginning.
When they meet growth, newbeginnings.
Taylor D. Adams (41:42):
Okay.
Amy Ellis (41:44):
Red is the second one once they actually start dating
and they have a lot of passionand love, so summer of love kind
of vibe.
Taylor D. Adams (41:52):
Right.
Amy Ellis (41:53):
Then, once they start having their issues and
fighting and bickering, she diesher hair orange, which could be
signified as like fall, or shenames orange agent orange, which
is not great, you know, anotherkind of good descriptor.
And then Winter, when she dyedher hair blue, is when she
(42:16):
erases him and is like grievingthe loss of this relationship.
And I was like dang, that'sactually pretty good.
Taylor D. Adams (42:23):
Yeah, I love little, just aesthetic things
like that that just signifyobvious change.
Like you don't, you're notthinking of it yeah but then
when you, then when the truth isrevealed to you're like you
know what?
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Amy Ellis (42:36):
Or even just like the tiny moments where he goes to
pour a drink and he goes like,oh sorry, I thought I had more.
And then it clicks like, oh,you had more, it was just the
erasers who came into yourapartment, drank all of your
booze, yeah.
So I just love those littlethings where you're like, oh
yeah, yeah, let's make sense nowhow would you take it if
somebody erased you from theirmemory?
(42:56):
I would feel really bad becauseI was I grew up a people pleaser
and I'd be like what did I do?
I'm so sorry, but yeah, I don'tknow.
I guess I'd be a littleoffended because I feel like I
tried pretty hard to be a goodperson.
Taylor D. Adams (43:09):
Would you then like befriend this person who
did not know you anymore and tryto like redo something, like be
better?
That feels Not that the blameis on you.
Amy Ellis (43:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Taylor D. Adams (43:20):
But they felt the need to do something.
Amy Ellis (43:23):
That would feel creepy and wrong to me.
So you wouldn't be elijah wood.
No, no, I wouldn't.
My favorite scene with him iswhen he's already been erased,
but he's like revisiting amemory and you see elijah wood
picking something up off thefloor and he like looks up and
it's his blurred face, with hiseyes upside down, and I was like
(43:44):
his eyes really are.
Taylor D. Adams (43:47):
Oh, joel joel's when joel's going through his
memory.
Amy Ellis (43:49):
Yes, sorry, yeah, when joel's going through his
memories and yeah patrick'sinside of it.
Patrick slash elijah wood rightand I was like that is
terrifying um, I did see that.
Taylor D. Adams (43:58):
I was like what a great way to visually
indicate things you're erasingand changing, like the whole
like, like like glossed overface, like the featureless faces
and the slight distortions ofthings and even in the voices
and stuff.
Amy Ellis (44:12):
It's super yeah, it feels very dreamlike to me, like
when you can't recall whatsomebody looked like.
In a dream like to me, that'skind of what my brain registers
yeah um, and I love when youwatch the scenes happening.
It's almost like you forgetthat what you're watching is a
memory being erased, until yousuddenly see like a sign, just
(44:33):
disappear.
Taylor D. Adams (44:34):
Yeah, something fall like in the, in the
bookstore, when, like, thetitles of the book, sections go
away and the street names onsigns and stuff like that it's
always.
I noticed it this time around.
It's really cool.
Amy Ellis (44:44):
Yeah, I like how subtle it is, but it's
definitely there.
And then all of a sudden,there's like nothing behind them
and you're like, whoa, whatjust happened?
I guess I have a question foryou, shoot.
If you were losing your memory,is that something that would
scare you, or do you think thatyou wouldn't even notice because
you wouldn't know what you weremissing out on?
Taylor D. Adams (45:07):
Well, I feel like if I, if I lose my memory
and there are indicators thatI'm losing my memory like
somebody shows up and says theyknow me and I don't know them,
then, yeah, I'd be freaked out.
Like yeah, memory is a hugeworry for me personally because
I've had like, not one for mepersonally because, I've had
(45:30):
like not one but two, at leasttwo grandparents with dementia
and like, yeah, even on mystepdad's side of the family,
his parents both had alzheimer's.
So it's like that's been aroundlike my life, and so that
really does frighten me.
But this can be.
This could be complete bullshitand unhealthy, but I like the
theory that these cognitiveconditions are actually our
(45:57):
minds expanding beyond time yeah, I like that we're both living
in the present, in the past atthe same time.
Amy Ellis (46:06):
I like that a lot.
Taylor D. Adams (46:07):
Was it you that told me this story about?
There was like a woman who haddementia and thought her bedroom
was on fire.
Yes, can you tell me that?
Can you tell me?
Amy Ellis (46:17):
that real quick, oh my God.
So if anyone is curious aboutmore stories like this, there's
an Instagram account named NurseHadley and she wrote a book
about being a hospice nurse andlike just interesting
experiences she's had and itprobably brings a lot of comfort
to people who are like grievingor having to face being mortal.
(46:39):
But one of her stories includesa woman who had Alzheimer's and
she was in hospice and herhusband called this nurse saying
she will not sleep.
She's just walking around theroom pacing, saying that the
house or that that room is onfire and she won't get in the
bed because it's on fire.
And she came over and was like,well, instead of saying there
(47:02):
isn't a fire, you need toacknowledge that to her there is
and move the bed.
So they moved the bed intoanother room.
She went into the other room,fell asleep, no problem.
Um, she passed away and I thinkit was like a month maybe.
After she passed away, thehusband called the nurse and
said there was a fire in thatroom and to me it's kind of like
(47:23):
maybe it is this expanding ofthe mind that, like you might
know more and that's why youjust don't remember things.
Taylor D. Adams (47:31):
Yeah, because we can't handle everything
Exactly Crazy.
Well, amy, thanks so much fortalking with me about this movie
and getting me to rewatch it,because I hadn't seen it since
probably around the time it cameout, so this was awesome.
Amy Ellis (47:44):
Thanks for having me.
You got me to rewatch it, butit all took a long time since
I'd seen it, so thank you.
Taylor D. Adams (47:52):
So that's it.
I hope you wouldn't choose toforget the last 40-ish minutes
of your time, because I had agreat time chatting with a
friend.
Plenty of bad things can happento us and I realized the next
thing I'm about to say comesfrom a privileged point of view.
But there are a lot of greatmoments that happen in our lives
that go along with thosemoments that we wish we'd forget
(48:14):
.
But the Lacuna Incorporatedprocedure isn't real.
So here's hoping all of thepositive moments in your lives
outweigh the bad, so you canappreciate all of the nuances of
life and relationships.
A huge thanks to Amy forchatting with me today and an
unforgettable thank you to youfor watching, listening, joining
us today or even all season.
(48:36):
If you wanna check out some ofAmy's work, I highly suggest you
do.
You can check out some of thelinks to that in the show notes.
If you enjoyed the show today,please go ahead and subscribe on
your favorite podcast platformof choice to stay up to date on
all of our episodes.
And if you happen to belistening to this on Apple
Podcasts, please leave a ratingand review.
Leaving a rating and reviewhelps us get noticed by more
(48:56):
awesome people like yourself.
If you're really enjoying theshow and you want to help
support us and maybe get alittle bit bigger and better and
get some cool perks in theprocess, please consider backing
us on Patreon.
You can find links to that inthe show notes below or visit
patreoncom.
Slash film nuts Our theme thisseason has been brought to us by
the deep end.
Our artwork is designed by ourhead of production is Keaton
(49:20):
Lusk, and all episodes of thefilm nuts podcast are produced
and edited by me, taylor D Adams.
If you want to get in touch,you can email filmnutspodcasts
at gmailcom or follow us onInstagram and TikTok at
filmnutspodcasts.
And one last thing don't forgetto join the Nuthouse Discord
community absolutely free bychecking out the link in the
(49:40):
show notes.
There's some really cool folksin there and that's where I'll
be hanging out until our nextseason.
Thank you all again.
So much for joining us todayand all season long.
So between now and when thenext episode comes out, meet me
in Montauk.
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