April 10, 2024 • 53 mins
Ever find yourself whisked away into a world of swashbuckling swordsmen, mythical quests, and hilarious hijinks with just the opening credits of a film? That's the power of The Princess Bride, a movie that continues to tickle our funny bones and tug at our heartstrings. Joining me is Dr. Alex Dainis, a science communicator who makes fun and educational videos about all things science for curious audiences everywhere. We're here to bridge a gap between the factual and the fantastical, so join us as we travel down memory lane, reminiscing about the movie's clever framing and the infectious laugh-out-loud moments that make it a timeless classic.
Embark on a rollercoaster of emotion and laughter as we celebrate the quirks and quotes that make "The Princess Bride" a veritable treasure of the '80s. We explore the film's layered themes of love and life lessons, from Inigo Montoya's quest for vengeance to the pure romance of Wesley and Buttercup, acknowledging how these stories shape our understanding of affection and heroism. So, grab your popcorn and prepare to be entertained and enlightened, as we delve into the art of storytelling and the molecular intricacies that make our world, and our favorite films, so enchantingly complex.
Notey Notes:
- PBS Digital Studios' Hungry Planet
- Alex's company, Helicase Media
- Alex's Instagram where science is fun!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Clip (00:01):
You can die too, for all I care as you wish.
Oh, my sweet Wesley, what haveI done?
Dr. Alex Dainis (00:15):
I think it has so many lovely elements of
storytelling and it has somelovely elements of friendship
and adventure.
It's one of the first adultfilms I remember watching as a
kid and enjoying.
Sometimes people like to hateon this movie a little bit
because it's not deep and it'snot dark and it's not, you know,
an exploration of the soul orsomething.
(00:36):
But it is a funny movie.
Taylor D. Adams (00:42):
Hi, I'm Taylor and welcome back to the Film
Nuts podcast, a show about whywe love what we watch.
So what's the best way to tella story?
Well, spoilers, there isn't oneright way.
Sure, there are things thatgood stories have in common,
like conflict and setups andpayoffs, but sometimes all a
(01:05):
story really needs is love.
The Princess Bride, starringCary Elwes, robin Wright and
Mandy Patinkin, is a story oftrue love as told by a
grandfather to his sick grandson.
It's heartwarming and hilarious, wholesome and goofy and a
constant boost of dopamine.
For my guest today, dr AlexDanis is a science communicator
(01:29):
making fun and educationalvideos about all things science
for curious audiences everywhere.
She tackles things likegenetics and physics, as well as
showcasing fun DIY scienceexperiments for people of all
ages.
Alex also happens to be someoneI've worked for on PBS's Hungry
Planet.
Alex and I talk about thecharming campiness of the
(01:51):
Princess Bride, how successfulthe grandfather is at telling a
story and our shared childhoodfear of quicksand.
So would you like to check itout as you?
Dr. Alex Dainis (02:04):
here's dr alex danis talking about the princess
bride on the film nuts podcastI think the last time we were in
person we were eating hot chilipeppers um yeah, that's, that's
that's what it was.
Oh my gosh, that was a longtime ago, yeah I'm excited that
that's not happening currently,um, because that was not not the
(02:25):
most fun, but not a greatmoment for you, but yeah no,
great moment for film, not forme personally, but yeah, since
since we wrapped up a hungryplanet I haven't been working
anything quite as big as that.
But you know, making vids withthe American Chemical Society
doing some stuff on chirality,with a chemistry nonprofit
(02:46):
called the Dreyfus Foundationworking with the Museum of
Science.
Taylor D. Adams (02:49):
Wait, what was that word?
What was that word you said?
Dr. Alex Dainis (02:51):
Chirality what?
Clip (02:53):
is that.
Dr. Alex Dainis (02:54):
So it is the idea that some molecules can
contain all of the same atomsbut have different
configurations, that we refer toas left and right handed.
So it's how your hands aresymmetrical.
But if you put them togetherthis way they overlap.
But they don't overlap this way, so they have a handedness to
them.
So some molecules have ahandedness and that can give
(03:16):
them totally differentproperties.
So you know, one handedness ofa sugar is sweet and the other
one your body can't digest.
One handedness of thalidomidehelps with pregnancy and the
other handedness of a sugar issweet and the other one your
body can't digest.
One handedness of thalidomidehelps with pregnancy and the
other handedness gives babiesterrible birth defects.
So knowing the yeah, knowingthe handedness of your molecules
is very important.
Taylor D. Adams (03:38):
I knew I was going to learn something talking
to you.
Dr. Alex Dainis (03:40):
Yeah, chemistry lesson for the day.
I can't tell you anything aboutthe chemistry of Iocane powder,
but I can tell you thechemistry of viral molecules.
Taylor D. Adams (03:50):
What a great segue, thank you.
It's like you tell stories fora living, for some reason.
Dr. Alex Dainis (03:57):
No, no way.
Taylor D. Adams (03:59):
So, speaking of Iocane powder, why did you want
to talk about the PrincessBride?
Dr. Alex Dainis (04:05):
So when you brought up films that I would
want to talk about, I thoughtabout a number of things.
Right, I thought aboutEverything, everywhere, all at
Once.
I thought about Eighth Grade.
I thought about a lot of filmsthat have moved me and made me
feel different ways, but then Irealized that none of those are
my favorite film and my favoritefilm is the Princess Bride.
Clip (04:27):
You guessed wrong.
You only think I guessed wrong.
That's what's so funny.
I switched glasses when yourback was turned.
You fool, you fell victim toone of the classic blunders.
The most famous is never, getinvolved in a land war in Asia,
but only slightly lesswell-known is this Never go in
against a Sicilian when death ison the line.
Dr. Alex Dainis (04:55):
And it's not an especially deep film and it's
not an especially complicatedfilm, but it's just.
I think it has so many lovelyelements of storytelling and it
has some lovely elements offriendship and adventure and is
just such a clear, you know,hero's journey kind of film.
(05:16):
And I did realize in watchingit and I'm sure we'll get into
this for the first time in likefive to ten years it it also has
some big problems, but I thinkoverall it is a it's just a fun
film and in watching it lastnight you know I was watching it
with my fiance, who was alittle skeptical of it kind of
thing, and like we were bothlaughing, like it's just, this
(05:38):
film is older than I am and juststill holds up and is funny and
charming and I think it's justa nice film and maybe it didn't
make me feel as deeply as someof the others but I just love it
and I also love and I'm goingto make you talk about the
accompanying book- oh, look atthat book.
(05:59):
You have the book, I have thebook, and this is my original
copy from high school that Idon't know if you'll be able to
tell on film, but looks like itwas purchased in like 1962.
This thing is like brown andweathered.
It's from, you know, the 2000s.
I think this printing was fromthe 90s.
But, like this book, just like,smells like an old book, which
is so fitting for this story.
(06:19):
Yeah, yeah, and it has the sameinteresting conceit of the movie
of a story being told versusjust the story itself, which is
cool.
Taylor D. Adams (06:31):
Ah, yeah, that's something I definitely
want to get into down the line.
Just the different techniquesthat this thing uses, yes, but,
like, you've talked about whatyou do like about this movie.
But what makes it your favorite, though, like is it because
it's been with you for a while,or is it something you watch
when you need comfort?
Like what is it?
Dr. Alex Dainis (06:51):
It's absolutely a comfort and nostalgia film.
It's one of the first.
I mean it's PG, but it's one ofthe first adult films I
remember watching as a kid andenjoying.
You know it wasn't.
It's definitely family friendly, but it wasn't necessarily made
for kids and it was one of thefirst not made for kids films
that I really enjoyed and likedand watched with my family and
(07:11):
everyone was sort of laughingalong and quoting it and I think
it's maybe one of the mostquotable movies in existence.
Um, and I think it's justsomething very unifying
throughout my childhood and thenearly adulthood of both
watching the movie and readingthe book and just really
(07:32):
enjoying that story for a long,long time.
Taylor D. Adams (07:37):
Do you, do you remember the first time you saw
it, or was it like that way toolong ago?
Dr. Alex Dainis (07:42):
Well, it was one of those things that I think
was kind of always on when Iwas a kid.
Taylor D. Adams (07:46):
And so.
Dr. Alex Dainis (07:46):
I don't specifically remember the first
time but I definitely rememberbeing a kid and I think, not
getting parts of it, not gettingyou grew up with that.
You know I never understood thelike never start a land war in
asia.
Line like what does that meanto a six-year-old, like what is
(08:12):
a land war in asia?
But you, you know it starts toget funny as you get older, sort
of thing.
Um, and I think the you knowthe relationship between mad max
and his wife valerie, you knowthat at the time is like why is
it funny that they're yelling ateach other?
And then you turn into an adultand you're like this is
hilarious that they're yellingat each other this way, um, and
like prodding each other withexactly what they know will
(08:34):
needle the other one liar liar,get back, witch.
Clip (08:38):
I'm not a witch, I'm your wife.
But after what you just said,I'm not even sure I want to be
that anymore you never had it sogood to love.
He said to love max don't sayanother word, valerie, he's
afraid.
Ever since prince humperdinckfired him, his confidence is
shattered.
Why'd you say that name?
You promised me that you wouldnever say that name.
Dr. Alex Dainis (08:55):
What humperdinck so I think that, too
, is one of those things that Iit has just sort of always been
there in that way that I thinkmany of these kind of 80s movies
of the time were and this wasthe one that I connected to the
most, but this one, and you know, labyrinth and um.
(09:19):
Robin Hood, men in Tights, likeall of these sort of movies of
that time period that just feltlike they were always on.
Taylor D. Adams (09:25):
When I was a kid this was my favorite of that
sort of time period of comedymovies so over over the years,
since it's like existed uh, foryou rather than the first time,
like the times you've watched it.
Is there something you'vegained more from?
Like, you talked about gettingthe jokes a little bit more, but
(09:47):
has it ever hit you in aparticular way?
I know it's not a deep film,but is there something about it
that you've watched over theyears that you like appreciate
something about it more or lessthan you did, like a previous
time you had watched it?
Dr. Alex Dainis (10:00):
I mean, I think one of the things that struck
me the more that I watched it,and especially in college when I
started really getting intofilmmaking and you know
understanding the aspects of astory and how things are told
and how different pieces of amovie came together.
I think Star Wars is often themovie that's picked out of, like
(10:23):
the hero's journey, like hereis Act One here is the inc out
of like the hero's journey, likehere is act one, here is the
inciting of it, here's all this.
But I think that this hits thosebeats so well and so
satisfyingly that that'ssomething that I think once I
started to learn how to pickmovies apart, I was able to
appreciate that no, it's not thedeepest plot in the world but
(10:43):
it does sort of reallysatisfyingly hit these moments
and I think the storytellingaspect of it too, the fact that
it is a story being told in abroader story and how the
grandfather and grandson'scommentary I think even
underscores, like the incitingevent and underscores like, well
(11:04):
, she can't die now, like shedoesn't die with the eels
because it's too early in thestory, like she exists at the
end, kind of thing.
I think those pieces are doneso well and are such an
interesting addition to thisthat takes it from being a super
standard fantasy story of youknow he's not a prince, but you
(11:25):
know prince rescues princess,kind of thing, and turns it into
something a little more witty,a little more interesting and a
little more fun.
Clip (11:32):
She doesn't get eaten by the eels at this time.
What the eel doesn't get her?
I'm explaining to you becauseyou look nervous.
I wasn't nervous.
Maybe I was a little bitconcerned, but that's not the
same thing, because we can stopnow if you want.
Taylor D. Adams (11:52):
No, you can read a little bit more if you
want.
Speaking of just kind of theway that the story is told, like
as someone whose job it is toexplain events and hard to
understand facts and topics inan entertaining way, how well do
you think Grandpa does attelling the story to his
grandson?
Dr. Alex Dainis (12:09):
OK.
So I think he does a great job,and I think that this is where
I'm going to veer into the booka little bit too.
So the conceit of the moviemovie right is that the
grandfather's coming over, he'stelling this story to the
grandson, but he's kind ofskipping over some parts a
little bit right at thebeginning.
(12:29):
The kid doesn't want to hearthe kissing parts, so he skips
over those parts, he just getsto the meat of the story.
For that reader, or for that, uh, viewer and the listener, the
book has a very similar butdifferent conceit that when you
pick up the book, it is S MorganStern's classic tale of true
(12:50):
love and high adventure, butit's edited by William Goldman
and the whole beginning of thebook is that William Goldman is
telling this story about how heused to love this book.
His father read to him that waswritten by S Morgan Stern.
He bought a copy of it for hisson and his son was like this is
the most boring thing ever.
And when he picked the book uphe realized that his father had
(13:14):
been telling him an abridgedversion and that the original
book by S Morgan Stern had allthis stuff about politics and
the background on floor and inGilder and all this, but when
his father read it to him heskipped those parts out.
So now William Goldman wasgoing to publish an abridged
version that only told the goodparts and skipped the boring
parts.
(13:35):
Now the reality is that S MorganStern doesn't exist.
There is no unabridged versionof the book.
This is the only version of thebook that exists, but the whole
conceit of the book is thatyou're reading an abridged
version and I love that.
I love that there's this likeexterior world that we're a part
of in the book.
That is reading the book,something about that I haven't
(13:59):
seen done similarly and.
I've seen some things like it,uh, in the years since, but when
I first read this in highschool, I'd never seen anything
like that done before, and itwas such an immersive way of
reading the book that you feltlike you were reading it along
with someone, and I think thatthat's something that movie, the
movie, does too, is that youare not watching this movie
(14:21):
alone.
You're not experiencing thestory alone.
You're experiencing it with thegrandfather and with the
grandson and getting theirlittle perspectives on it and
the grandson being like ew, it'sa kissing book, and like I'm
not worried about her dying fromthe eels and like well, who
kills humperdinck.
Like you get all those thingsthat you feel from the social
experience of watching a movie,but they're embedded in the
(14:43):
movie and I you know there arethings that do that right, like
mystery, science, theater, 3000or whatever, like they kind of
do that.
You know there are some showsout there that do that, but it's
it's a interesting way to me ofgetting that social aspect of
watching the movie into themovie itself, but that's not
what you asked.
You asked if the grandfatherdoes a good job, and I think I
(15:05):
think he does.
I think he's keying in on whohis audience is, what his
audience wants from the storyand what he needs to communicate
to get him there.
And he changes at the end whenhe's like, oh, you don't want to
hear about the kissing part,we'll skip that.
And the audience is like, well,actually maybe I do want to
hear the kissing part, and he'slike, okay, like well, then
we'll add that back in, causeyou wanted that additional
information.
So there's a dialogue betweenthe you know presenter and the
(15:28):
audience.
So I think he does a good job.
But I think, more than anything, that's such a it's a fun way
to watch a movie.
It's a fun way to experiencethat social part of a movie.
Taylor D. Adams (15:40):
Yeah, it's very , yeah, it's very meta in the
way that it does that.
But like I don't remember thefirst time I saw this either,
because, yeah, it was one ofthose things, it was just kind
of always on.
Yeah, as I was watching it,like the poisoning scene happens
30 minutes into the movie yeah,I remember that being the whole
movie.
Like I remember that happeninglike at the end of the movie and
(16:02):
like it happened in the first30 minutes, I was like wait,
what else happens?
And then, as this stuff goes on, I was like I remember all this
stuff but I could have sworn.
The poisoning scene is like thedenouement is like it's like
the like right after the climax.
But I was like oh, this there'slike I got an hour left.
What's going to?
I had no idea.
Clip (16:20):
All right, where is the poison?
The battle of wits has begun.
It ends when you decide, and weboth drink and find out who is
right and who is dead.
Taylor D. Adams (16:30):
You talked a little bit about the hero's
journey, um, and that this iskind of an example of that.
What you you kind ofapproaching it in an analytical
way, and for someone who makesscience videos, that makes sense
.
Uh, is there a particular theway that you approach making
videos about science and hard tounderstand topics for us, us
(16:52):
common people like what's youranalytical approach to doing
something like that?
Dr. Alex Dainis (16:59):
My approach, and this is not something that I
came up with, but it'ssomething that has really
resonated with me.
Um, when I was actually an oralcommunication tutor at Stanford
, one of the things that theytaught was to know your age, and
it stood for audience, goal andenvironment, and I like to
think that I have taken that and, like, really applied it to
(17:21):
everything that I do.
That is for any story I'mtelling, any video, I'm making
any script, I'm writing.
Before I do anything, I want tofigure out who is my audience,
what is my goal and what is theenvironment that this is going
to live in.
So, for a lot of things I do,the environment is YouTube or
it's TikTok, but those twoenvironments require something
(17:44):
different, right?
If you're going to filmsomething horizontal for YouTube
versus vertical for TikTok, youneed to know that upfront,
right?
So the environment you'representing the information in is
important, but I think audienceand goal are the big things is
always being really specificabout who are you talking to?
What do what can you assumethat they know?
What can you not assume thatthey know?
What do you think they want toknow?
(18:06):
Right?
What do you want them?
What do you think that they'regoing to want to get out of this
, and then what is your actualgoal?
And that goal can be reallydifferent, right?
So, if you are, I use thisexample often.
When I was defending my thesis,my goal was to get out of there
and prove I was smart, veryspecific goal.
(18:27):
But when I was writing somethinglike Hungry Planet, the goal is
to get the audience to thinkabout science in their daily
lives.
And so once you figure out whateach of those specific audience,
goal and environment are, thenyou can start building your film
, you can start building yourscript, you can start adding
(18:51):
things to it and always asking,of every little piece you add in
, does this support my audienceand my goal and my environment?
And I think that for me again,it's why I really like the
grandfather's storytelling.
You know he figures out who hisaudience is, what that audience
needs.
The goal is really to distracthim from feeling sick.
The environment is that he'sgoing to be sitting there with a
book, so he's got to bring hisbook.
He pulls in a chair, he sitsdown, gets cozy like I think we
all do that as communicators andas filmmakers but I think
(19:15):
really being intentional andanalytical about writing those
things down or telling peoplewhat they are, and just being
really clear helps to keepthings on track and helps to
make your message as clear aspossible.
Taylor D. Adams (19:31):
So what's the AGE of this movie?
Not.
Dr. Alex Dainis (19:36):
Grandpa's, not his.
Taylor D. Adams (19:37):
Thing but of this movie, what do you think?
Dr. Alex Dainis (19:40):
Of the movie.
So environment is the easiest,although I think that's changed
over the years.
So environment was a giantmovie theater or maybe on a tape
you're going to bring home andplay in your own television.
But I think that you know thataffects set design, that affects
how you're going to film it.
You know all of those thingsare affected by the environment.
You're going to film it.
(20:01):
You know all of those thingsare affected by the environment.
The audience, I would sayprobably.
You know, oh see, part of mewants to go 80s comedy, adult
audience.
But I do think that they werepretty aware that it was
probably going to be afamily-friendly film.
You know there's one swear inthere At one point he calls him.
(20:21):
You know I want my father backyou, son of a bitch.
And I think that that stillallowed them to be PG, because
it was only one and it was likereally well intentioned but they
weren't swearing all the time.
You know, they were sort oflooking still at that.
We're in a PG rating kind ofthing.
So PG audience and then goalsto entertain.
I mean, goal of this kind ofmovie is to entertain and I
think you can get more specificwith themes of true love and,
(20:45):
you know, adventure and thatkind of thing, adventures and a
theme.
But you know, there there aresome themes here that true love
and, I think, friendship as well.
I think we see a lot ofbuilding up of, uh, inigo and
wesley and physics sort of asthis team.
You know those relationshipsbetween them as well as
important.
But yeah, I think, I think thegoal here really is just
(21:08):
entertainment.
We're entertaining where we'remaking money.
Right, that's part of the filmbusiness we're going to, we're
going to make some money to makethe next film too.
Taylor D. Adams (21:17):
So what did you fall in love with first?
Science or filmmaking?
Dr. Alex Dainis (21:24):
oh, neither what I fell in love with well,
no, I know, I know, but let melet me follow that up because I
think it's important is thatwhat I fell in love with first
was storytelling and I have avery specific memory this is
actually kind of sad, but I havea specific memory of being a
(21:46):
kid and thinking I wish therewas a job, that I could just
tell stories all day.
But then my sad little childbrain was like but that would be
lying, no jobs, let you do that.
Taylor D. Adams (21:59):
How old were you during this?
Dr. Alex Dainis (22:01):
I was eight, eight maybe like little right,
but like I, I loved tellingstories, I loved coming up with
like fantasy worlds, like Iloved all that sort of like
imaginative, imaginative playand writing.
I loved writing, I wrote theworst.
Oh god, I hope they always stayburied on a hard drive like, and
no one should ever see them.
But I wrote stories all thetime and I actually wrote
(22:22):
thinking back.
I wrote a lot of likefantasy-esque stories of like
princesses escaping their castleand going on adventures, and I
liked reading those kinds ofthings too.
I really loved the world ofstorytelling but I did not see
it as something that I could doas a career.
And I really enjoyed science.
You, by the time I got to sortof middle school, high school, I
(22:43):
really enjoyed science a lot.
I also enjoyed taking.
I had a little like Canon powershot camera that could take
videos and I would take videosof my friends all the time and
edit them together.
But I also didn't see filmmakingas something that I could make
into a serious career.
And I went to college forscience and for biology and it
(23:04):
wasn't until, I think, mysophomore year that I kind of
let myself start taking a coupleof film courses.
There was a film minor at thatpoint in time and then they
opened it up as a major and Ifelt weird about it.
But I was like, well, I'vestill got science, like I'll do
filmmaking as a major, but I'mI'm really a scientist right,
like that's my thing okay.
Taylor D. Adams (23:25):
But I felt like I got a really so you decided
that you were gonna like have adouble major.
Is that the decision?
Dr. Alex Dainis (23:32):
yeah, yeah, so I double majored uh in biology
and film, um, and felt like Igot a really great hands-on bio
experience, but, through nofault of their own, the film
department was very young, andso I didn't felt like I got a
really great hands-on bioexperience.
but, through no fault of theirown, the film department was
very young, and so I didn't feellike I got the best hands-on
film experience just becausethere weren't enough
opportunities yet.
It really wasn't their fault.
So I graduated and I was burntout and knew I wasn't going to
(23:56):
go straight to grad school andended up getting a job at a
small production company thatdid mostly videos and
installations for museums andthat was really, really fun
because it let me sort of be.
I was an associate producer.
I got to do all parts of thefilmmaking world but for this
sort of niche and sometimesscientific area, but again
(24:20):
really still niche and sometimesscientific area, but again
really still I loved it.
That job was incredible but Istill knew I was going to go
back to school for science.
I knew I was going to go and getmy PhD in science and I just
sort of had you know YouTubechannel on the side, but this is
a long way of saying I didn'trealize until the very end of
grad school that I could do bothand that I could have a career
(24:41):
that would combine science andfilmmaking and storytelling into
something that you know, knockon wood and huge amounts of
gratitude to the universeactually allows me to make a
career and keep doing the stuffthat I love.
So it was the answer to youroriginal question.
Which did I fall in love with?
First?
I think maybe science, maybescience just because I was more
(25:08):
exposed to it.
But truly the thing that Ireally loved and that I think
both of them allow me to do istell stories, and that's just
the most fun part.
Taylor D. Adams (25:16):
So sorry for the interruption, but I will be
brief.
I am so grateful that youdecided to listen to the Film
Nuts podcast today.
If you are enjoying what you'rehearing, please consider
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(25:37):
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(25:59):
awesome people like yourself.
Okay, enough of me ramblingBack to the good stuff.
So your fantasy stories youused to write that you hope
never see the light of day.
Dr. Alex Dainis (26:11):
Tell me the one that was your favorite that you
wrote the one that was myfavorite, that I wrote.
I don't even actually remember.
I don't remember a ton of theplot other than there was a
princess who was in a castle andshe I don't know what the
motivating, motivating factorwas, but she had to escape for
(26:33):
some reason and knowing myselfat that age was probably like
she was being forced intomarriage and she had to escape.
So she steals a horse and shegoes off and I also I really
loved the details of these kindsof stories.
I really loved the worldbuilding aspect of it.
So I remember that I spent alot of time detailing what she
(26:53):
brought with her and what, likethe riding clothes and what the
horse looked like, like I reallyloved the world building aspect
of that of like what did thisplace?
I didn't know that this is whatI was doing, but what did this
place look?
Taylor D. Adams (27:07):
like right kind of thing.
Dr. Alex Dainis (27:09):
So she escapes, she makes it to a local town
where obviously nobodyrecognizes her as the princess
of this thing.
Um, and she, she like, madesome kind of career, like years
passed and then she went backand she reassumed the throne,
like it was again.
All of this was like I don'tknow, maybe a 20 page story I
wrote when I was 10 or something, but I just remember really
(27:31):
enjoying the like adventure andgoing out and making your way,
and I think this has come backup in my life a lot that the
books I loved to read too.
I was just talking withsomebody about, you know.
You know I loved my side of themountain and I loved a girl
named disaster.
I loved these books where thesepreteens were like running off
into the woods and making theirway and then coming back and
(27:53):
being like I've learned things.
Um and I was not an outdoorsykid but I've become a very
outdoorsy adult who lovescamping and backpacking and
those sorts of things and Ithink I'm finally fulfilling
that part of me that wanted to,wanted to go on a journey and an
adventure as a kid and now cansafely, with proper training, do
it as an adult.
Exist in these worlds that Iwas reading about in books and I
(28:24):
wanted to.
Yeah, I was so oriented on thedetails of like what was in her
satchel that she brought withher.
What tools did she need andagain, I see that so much in
myself as an adult now of like Ilove the planning and the like
gear aspect of backpacking, oflike what tools get to go in my
satchel.
There's definitely a throughline there.
Taylor D. Adams (28:41):
So, like with the stories you wrote as a kid
and the fact that now you so, asa kid you didn't like do a lot
of outdoor stuff, were youadventurous at all, like as a
person, as a little kid or?
Dr. Alex Dainis (28:53):
No, I was a shy , quiet kid and you know I was
outdoorsy in the sense that,like my mom had a garden and I
would like plant flowers andstuff, but I didn't really go
camping.
You know, girl Scouts at thetime was all about selling
cookies.
It wasn't actually about doingoutdoor things.
You know, I was not that personas a kid.
(29:17):
I was very reserved and veryquiet and very honestly scared
of the world in a lot of ways,and I think that's probably what
I admired about a lot of thesestories was it was people who
weren't scared of those thingswho were going out in the world
and taking charge.
And that's actually one of thethings that I again I hadn't
actually watched this movie inlike five, six years that I
noticed last night that I waslike man butter.
(29:40):
Buttercup does nothing in thismovie, you know.
I was like she's classic 80s,80s problem, you know exactly,
but I remember, even as a kid,the scene, that poisoning scene,
you know.
Wesley and Vizzini are goingback and forth and she's just
sitting there with a blindfoldon.
And I remember, even as a kidbeing like it's so weird that
(30:00):
she's just sitting there with ablindfold on, and I remember,
even as a kid being like it's soweird that she's just sitting
there with a blindfold on, but Ididn't question it more than
just like note that it was weirdand last night I was like God
damn it, like go run away, Likewhat are you doing?
So I think you know, I think ifI had to pick a character in
this story like I probablywanted to be Wesley, right, I
wanted to be the Dread PirateRoberts and running around with
(30:21):
the sword and doing all thesekinds of things, and I just
think it's funny that Iconnected so strongly with this,
whereas, looking back in thestories I was writing, it was
always the princess going outand doing these things right and
like man.
The story is called thePrincess Bride and the princess
does nothing.
Taylor D. Adams (30:35):
She just does absolutely nothing this whole
movie, other than being like alittle grumpy sometimes I guess
the one thing she does do is sheescapes the first time and
tries to swim to shore, but shedoes.
Dr. Alex Dainis (30:48):
But that's about it yeah, and she doesn't
even get herself back in theboat, right like she doesn't
even swim back to the boat,fesik, just like, yoinks her out
of the water at one point, um,but it's just like, okay, you're
right, I guess I should giveher credit, she does try, but
then after that she just givesup entirely, even in the, even
in the fire swamp.
I think I was a littlesurprised that, like you know,
(31:09):
they can hear the pop, pop, popand instead of her stepping to
the side every time, wesleypicks her up and moves her over.
And I'm like, ma'am, just like,step to your left.
Taylor D. Adams (31:19):
Yeah, maybe she should have, yeah, read some
more fantasy novels.
She would have been moreprepared.
I agree, pack some, pack somebetter gear.
Maybe she would have beenbetter off.
Dr. Alex Dainis (31:28):
Yeah, that is one thing again too, that I
noticed last night.
That Is so silly of a thing tonotice.
None of them have anything withthem.
Like literally all Wesley hasis a sword and apparently a tuba
.
I came powder, but as he's likerunning over the mountains, at
one point I was like man, I wishI would want a water bottle,
(31:49):
I'd want a snack.
Taylor D. Adams (31:50):
Like all these people are totally unprepared
for the situations they'regetting themselves into, were
you as terrified of quicksand asa kid as I was, and like where
is the quicksand now?
Where is the?
Dr. Alex Dainis (31:59):
quicksand.
Now, where is the quicksand?
Well, I'll tell you, I had myone almost encounter with
quicksand last week.
Um, I know, I know, I finallyand I thought this in the moment
I was like it's happening, thisis my, this is my quicksand
moment, because you're right, soquicksand, there were a bunch
of things like that that, askids quicksand I thought I'd run
into all the time.
(32:20):
Sticks of dynamite seemed likea thing that people just
stumbled across all the time,especially in like looney tunes,
and stuff like that waseverywhere.
Um, those washing machines ordryers that you'd like roll
things through, those alwaysshowed up in cartoons yeah, yeah
but like never in my life.
Um, but last week I went outwith a friend to death valley
(32:42):
because, after the hurricanelast year, death valley actually
currently has a lake in it andyou can go out onto this lake
which is very cool it's supercool, but it's not really like a
beautiful lake you imagine, youknow, with an oasis around it,
because it's normally just amuddy excuse me, muddy basin.
(33:03):
So as we're walking out there,there's this salt crust on
everything, and so you'rewalking on the salt, on mud, and
that's fine, and then suddenlyyour foot punches down through
the salt and you just hit thissand and mud underneath you and
it just like sucks into yourankle, um, and it's not so deep,
(33:23):
but you know, I got two stepsout and if you stop you start
sinking down into it.
And so, you know, my friend andI are taking pictures and we're
looking around and I'm takingpictures of her, like out in the
lake, and then I go to move andI was like, oh, I'm, I'm stuck.
And there were people thinkthankfully we had seen people
take off their shoes, so wedidn't have our shoes on, but
there were people's shoes thatwere just like stuck out in the
(33:43):
mud.
Oh, wow, because you were, itwas really sort of squelching
you down and I was like this isthis is my quicksand moment.
I know not to panic.
I know to like slowly liftmyself up but yeah, as a kid you
know, quicksand was ineverything and I just I was so
prepared for like I would meetit every time.
(34:04):
And now, once in 35 years haveI met quicksand and it was
thankfully not life-threatening,though I will say the salt
because it's, it's crystallizedinto these.
You know, beautiful little you,not hexagonal, but I guess sort
of square, chunky crystals.
It cut up our ankles, like myankles have all these little
(34:25):
cuts on them from like goingdown through the salt and the
mud below.
Clip (34:29):
Yeah.
Dr. Alex Dainis (34:30):
So beautiful and weird and strange, but the
only time in my entire life thatI have encountered something
even close to quicksand.
Taylor D. Adams (34:42):
So one thing I was noticing while watching this
movie I had for it's.
I don't know how long it's beensince I've actually seen this
movie.
Um, I actually want to saymaybe I've only actually ever
seen it once, but then I've justseen bits like throughout yes,
you know, yes, so this movie'sso funny, like I was laughing
way more than I rememberlaughing, and it was such a
(35:05):
weird balance I thought of, likeit's, it's so goofy and yet
it's really clever.
But it also balances being likea family movie and a romance
and like some kind of like metacommentary on story and all of
it works.
Like nothing stands out as likenothing works about this movie.
So, like here's, here's aninteresting question If someone
(35:30):
God forbid this gets remade andthey do the exact same, like
what do they do?
The exact same thing?
Would it work?
Or if they did it and they didsome other bullshit, uh, would
that work?
Dr. Alex Dainis (35:57):
I mean, I would be heartbroken if they ever
remade this because I do thinkthat there's something about the
time period that made it work.
I think it's.
You know it's it's goofy, butit's also I think it really is
campy right, like I think thisactually hits.
It's really hard to be campywell and I think this hits that.
I think if they did it now,there would be CGI and there
would be all this stuff.
That would just feel wrong,like when they're in that scene
in the fire swamp.
Clip (36:18):
What are the three terrors of the fire swamp?
One the flame spurt, no problem, there's a fire swamp.
One the flames burn, no problem.
There's a popping soundproceeding.
Each we can avoid that.
Two the lightning sound, butyou were clever enough to
discover what that looks like.
So in the future.
We can avoid that too, wesley.
What about the RUSs?
Rodents of unusual size?
I don't think they exist.
Dr. Alex Dainis (36:40):
This is the first time that I had noticed
this and I was like, oh my gosh,there's a person.
Taylor D. Adams (36:44):
There's a person in the rat suit.
Dr. Alex Dainis (36:45):
There's a person in the rat suit.
Taylor D. Adams (36:47):
That's who I noticed too.
Dr. Alex Dainis (36:48):
Waving their arms and I was like, oh my gosh,
but like it's so funny becauseof that.
It is funny because you're like, oh my God, there's a person in
the rat suit and if they madethat a CGI rat it would be.
It would just feel gross anduncanny valley and like, but no
one would let you today.
I don't think anyone todaywould let you put a person in
(37:09):
the rat suit.
Or if they did, it would belike a jurassic park style rat
suit that looks really real.
And it's so funny because itdoesn't look real like the face
on that rat is so ridiculouslypuppety that I think just worked
so well in that time period.
And I think too, there's thecast is incredible.
I don't know who you could castin some of those roles today
(37:34):
that would hit as well as theyall did.
I mean, mandy Patinkin has donea thousand incredible things,
but he will always be InigoMontoya, like that's.
That's just who he is, and I, Ithink too, like god.
Billy Crystal as Mad Max, likeall of those people, I think,
just do such an incredible job.
I would hate to see who theycast in those roles today,
(37:58):
because they could.
It doesn't matter who it is,they couldn't live.
I think the practicality of itbeing made in the 80s, the like
fact that all of those sets werereal, that it was all these
people just kind of goofing offbut doing it in this really
refined way, I just don't thinkit would hit the same way if it
was made today.
I really don't and I'd hate tosee it in CGI.
(38:21):
Oh, that would kill me.
Taylor D. Adams (38:24):
Yeah, I don't think.
Yeah, definitely I'm.
I'm much more of a fan of likethings being like practical,
like practical effects.
You know, go ahead, throwsomebody in a rat suit, like
that it's.
It's weird, like I always like.
The peak of practical effectsto me is like 80s horror movies,
like, yeah, the thing is likethat's perfect, like everything
(38:44):
that's horror and practical andthe thing is lovely and I mean
it's gross, but it's perfect.
Clip (38:49):
Yes.
Taylor D. Adams (38:50):
So, yeah, I'm just kind of like, yeah, we
would, we should not, we shouldstop.
You know, we, the industry,should stop remaking stuff, but
we don't have another hour to godown that rabbit hole.
No, Okay, spinning back intothe positive.
What is your favorite moment orscene from this movie?
Dr. Alex Dainis (39:12):
Oh, that's a great question, because I have
so many, I mean, I think that'sreally really hard.
I think there are a number thatmake me laugh really hard.
Again, the whole scene with MadMax I think is delightful.
I quote the like mutton,lettuce and tomato line, like
(39:33):
all the time.
Clip (39:34):
True love is the greatest thing in the world, except for a
nice MLT, a mutton, lettuce andtomato sandwich.
When the mutton is nice andlean and the tomato is ripe,
it's so perky I love that.
Dr. Alex Dainis (39:45):
I think everything about that scene is
so funny and so delightful.
I do think that the to the painyou know.
Speech.
Clip (39:57):
To the pain means the first thing you lose will be
your feet below the ankles, thenyour hands at the wrists, next
to your nose and then my tongue.
I suppose I killed you tooquickly the last time.
A mistake?
I don't mean to duplicate.
Tonight I wasn't finished.
The next thing you lose will beyour left eye, followed by your
right, and then my ears.
Dr. Alex Dainis (40:17):
I understand, let's get on with it and he
stands up at the end with thesword and he says drop, your
sword is so powerful, and thenhe immediately like kind of
collapses.
But I think, honestly, thethings that get me more are the
little, just the little funnymoments in there.
Like one of the things I crackedup about the most last night is
there Wesley isn't quite wokenback up from his death yet and
(40:40):
Fezzik is sort of carrying himand just like moving his head to
look between people as they'reand like it's just so funny to
me, like it's those littlemoments that are just like oh
gosh, like that's so great and I, yeah, I think honestly it's
the little bits throughout thatmovie that I love the most,
though I think visually there'ssomething that always struck me
(41:03):
and again I think it's becauseit's sort of a practical effect
that I really love of them alljumping out of the window at the
end onto the white horses, likeas she falls down and like her
dress is fluttering or whateverit's just such like a oh yeah,
we're watching a fantasy filmand this isn't real and it's
just like this beautifulconstructed moment, like I do
love that it wraps up soperfectly and beautifully, again
(41:27):
as sort of a commentary on thatwhole genre.
Taylor D. Adams (41:29):
But just like it fits, it fits there what did
your uh, what did your fianceethink of this movie?
You said he was kind ofhesitant to watch it.
But what did he think?
Dr. Alex Dainis (41:39):
oh hesitant, in that he is like a serious film
buff and that this is not aserious film.
And so when I was like guesswhat, I'm taking over our TV
with this tonight, he, you know,he kind of groaned or whatever,
but he too he was laughingalong and like admitted sort of
similarly that like he'dforgotten how funny the movie
was.
Um, and so I think that's oneof the things where I think I
(42:00):
think sometimes people like tohate on this movie a little bit
because it's not deep and it'snot dark and it's not, you know,
an exploration of the soul orsomething, but it is a funny
movie, like it is a comedy andit is.
It hits all the notes it needsto hit and I think you know he
appreciated that, I think morethan he expected he would last
(42:21):
night when it was like.
Oh yeah, this is.
This is really good.
And just catching him tolaughing at all those little
bits like that too, like themoving the head back and forth
he was laughing at.
Taylor D. Adams (42:28):
Yeah, I was like I don't think I noticed
that bit until, yeah, I didn'tnotice that bit until like
toward the end of the scene andI was like, oh, he's turning his
(42:48):
head the whole time.
It's great, this.
What was kind of interesting tome watching this is like, yeah,
it's funny, it's veryentertaining, like it's got like
the 80s problems of movies,which is like, yes, you forgive
it because it's of the time, andas long as the movie itself is
good, you're like cool, whatever.
Yeah, but what really struck meis so the like.
The very last line of the movieis like the grandpa says to the
grandson, as you wish, which islike code for I love you and
i'm'm thinking back for like,like this is going to sound like
grand and, you know,pretentious, but like the power
(43:10):
like of stories and that thefact they can connect us across
distances and generations, like.
I guess just that kind of like.
That's an opinion I have andsomething I noticed.
I don't know if there'ssomething that you, you, you
agree with or if you want toexpand upon.
I, I started talking and Ididn't realize it was a question
.
I was like I'm just gonna saythis and see what happens well,
(43:33):
no, I think, I think it's a good.
Dr. Alex Dainis (43:35):
I think it's sort of the whole commentary on
not just story and movies ingeneral, but that specifically
right.
That like the son is so annoyedthat his grandfather is coming
over, he doesn't feel good, hedoesn't want the grandfather to
pinch his cheek like he doesn'twant to do this, but then
through the power of story, youknow, they connect over that,
they connect across thesegenerations and he asks him to
(43:56):
come back tomorrow, sort ofthing.
So I think I think it's.
If there is a theme, certainlythe broader theme of the movie
is love in all these differentkinds of ways.
You know the love of InigoMontoya for his father sends him
on this entire revenge journey.
You know the love betweenWesley and Buttercup sets this
whole movie in motion, kind ofthing.
You know Humperdinck doesn'tlove her, he loves his country
(44:18):
more than that and that setsacross, you know, this whole
idea that he's going to try andstart a war, there's all these.
Taylor D. Adams (44:23):
He loves his, he loves his position more than
his country.
But yes, that's true, that'sactually.
Dr. Alex Dainis (44:28):
Yes, that's a much better way of phrasing that
he loves, he loves his power,um, but it does all wrap back up
again between the grandfatherand the son.
That that's really what drovethis story and what told the
story quite literally was thelove between the grandfather and
the son.
So no, I think that's a perfectobservation, that really that
is that's storytelling, but alsothis story are you gonna
(44:52):
convince your fiancee to say asyou wish to you more?
oh, I oof that, I think wouldfreak me out like that, like
it's a little too much like hewould say it and you would be
like, stop, don't, don't do itas you wish was all he ever said
farm boy, fill these with waterplease as you wish.
Clip (45:26):
That day, she was amazed to discover that when he was
saying as you wish, what hemeant was I love you again.
Dr. Alex Dainis (45:33):
That's one of the things that I I didn't
notice before but like inaddition to buttercup doing
practically nothing in thismovie, I'm like man you were
kind of a bitch like at thewhole beginning like oh man like
okay, I don't know why, wesley,you fell in love with her, but
like she was kind of mean to youfor a long time, um yeah yeah,
(45:55):
they just had to get out of theway.
Taylor D. Adams (45:56):
Play, listen, uh, she's in love with him, deal
with it.
And now the story starts likethat.
Dr. Alex Dainis (46:01):
It really, it really does.
They really just like, turnsout they were in love with each
other and now we start the story.
Taylor D. Adams (46:08):
Um, yeah, there's a lot of convenient
things going on, but, like again, we're looking it through a
lens of this happened, you know,almost 40 years ago, maybe 40
years ago, um yeah, so thingshave changed.
Dr. Alex Dainis (46:21):
I'm.
I'm okay with those kinds ofmoments in movies sometimes when
it's like you know, I reallydon't want to see their whole
love story, Like I kind of don'tcare, I want to see them get to
the good parts, and I thinkthere are so many times in
television and movie now wherethose points can be really
belabored and it's like, oh myGod, can we just get?
(46:42):
Like I get it, this personhates this person and they're
going to try and kill.
Like let's just go, like keepgoing.
So I actually really don't mindthat in this, that it's like,
yeah, that's not the point.
Like, just believe this andlet's keep going.
Taylor D. Adams (46:56):
So where you are now in your life, having,
you know, uh, grown up tellingstories and gotten like, less
scared about the world, um, lessshy.
Is there any?
Sometimes I hate this question,but sometimes the response is
really good.
But like would you say anythingto eight year old you to like
(47:19):
tell her it's okay or it's a,you know, you can be less scared
, the world's not that bad?
Like would, not knowing whatyou know now, were there
anything you would say?
Dr. Alex Dainis (47:28):
For sure I would.
I mean I was a.
I think it served me well, butI was a kid who was so concerned
with doing the right thing atall times, you know.
I had to get the best grade andI had to make sure I wasn't
breaking any rules and all thatand that served me well.
It got me, you know, far in myacademic career and I think is
(47:51):
an important life lesson.
But I do wish she'd known it wasokay to break rules sometimes,
you know.
It was okay to color outsidethe lines, it was okay to be a
little different and creative,because it took me a really long
time, I think, to get to apoint where I felt comfortable
feeling creative andunderstanding that I could have
(48:11):
a career.
And I still feel a little weirdcalling myself creative.
It's still something that Ithink is a skill that I work on
and I wish it's a skill I hadfelt comfortable, comfortable
developing sooner.
So I think, you know, takingchances, breaking the rules, a
little bit, coloring outside thelines I wish that I could go
back and tell her that you knowit's okay to go be a pirate on a
(48:34):
pirate ship for five years andthen train someone else to be
the pirate after you, Like youknow, maybe, maybe not all the
killing people parts of it, butI think that life is so much
more interesting when you are alittle less scared of it.
So, yeah, I wish, I wish I couldgo back and tell her that.
Taylor D. Adams (48:53):
I didn't realize how many quotable
moments from this movie what?
Yeah.
One of my favorites was likethere's not a lot of money in
revenge.
I thought that line was reallyfunny for some reason.
So to send us home.
What is your favorite quote?
Dr. Alex Dainis (49:10):
I've been struggling with this because, as
you said, so much of this movieis so quotable and I went back
and forth between two and Ifinally narrowed it down because
these are the two that I usethe most and I quote this movie
all the time it down becausethese are the two that I use the
most, and I quote this movieall the time, and so I think one
of my, my second favorite, isafter Vizzini says inconceivable
(49:31):
for something that isabsolutely conceivable.
For the third or fourth time,inigo turns to him and says you
keep using the word.
I don't think it means what youthink it means and I love that
so much like it's so perfect inthe movie, but it's also just so
perfect in so many aspects oflife.
Taylor D. Adams (49:48):
Right.
Dr. Alex Dainis (49:48):
Like everyone knows that person who keeps
saying this thing.
It's like I don't think thatmeans what you think it means.
Taylor D. Adams (49:54):
Right yeah.
Dr. Alex Dainis (49:55):
And I I love that so much.
But the other one is actuallyanother Inigo moment where he is
trying to explain what happenedthat day and he was like let me
explain.
Clip (50:06):
No, there is too much.
Dr. Alex Dainis (50:08):
Let me sum up and I think that that's like
both of those together are justmy career.
It's like I don't think thatword means what you think it
means and then also like let meexplain, no, there's too much.
Let me sum up like I, I lovethose both and they're not even
the funniest parts of the movie,but they're just ones that I
quote all the time, I thinkabout all the time and I just
like.
Let me sum up, like, oh no, Ijust feel that so often and I
(50:33):
think as well, is an importantstorytelling lesson.
Taylor D. Adams (50:38):
When you said the first one, I was like, yes,
that makes so much sense forAlex.
And then the second one itmakes even more sense.
Like I'm going to, I'm going tosum up the ways that you're
wrong.
I'm going to sum up the ways.
Here's the right thing to say,here's the facts, and I'm going
to sum it up in a way that issuper digestible for you to
understand, which is what youwere doing now, and you're doing
(50:59):
a great job at it, and I'm verygrateful that we got to work on
some projects together and,hopefully, projects in the
future, right?
Dr. Alex Dainis (51:05):
Yes, yes, fingers crossed.
I got a whole bunch of stuffthat I hope we can work on in
the future, because that's oneof the great things I think
about the careers that we're inis you get to meet a bunch of
people who all have cool skillsand they'd be like, oh my gosh,
can our skills make somethingtogether?
Like that's the most fun part.
Taylor D. Adams (51:30):
I think one of the great things about movies,
books and art in general istheir ability to take us to
places beyond our imagination.
We can treat these journeys asescapes from our everyday lives,
but what I think is really coolis when these journeys are able
to expand our horizons.
Watching a movie about braveand intrepid adventurers makes
us want to get out there andexplore the world.
(51:52):
A film about forgingfriendships can force us to
re-evaluate our ownrelationships, and enjoying a
romantic comedy can lead us tolove each other a little bit
more, even if it doesn't end upin marriage.
A huge thanks to Alex forchatting with me today and a
Fezzik-sized thank you to youfor listening.
(52:14):
Please check out some of thelinks in the show notes for some
of Alex's work, includingepisodes of Hungry Planet.
If you enjoyed the episodetoday, please go ahead and
subscribe on your favoritepodcast platform of choice, and
if you happen to be listening onApple Podcasts, please pretty
please leave a rating and reviewso it helps us get in front of
more awesome people likeyourself.
If you want to continuesupporting the show and maybe
(52:36):
help it grow a little bit andget some cool perks in the
process, please considersupporting the Film Notes
podcast on Patreon.
You can find links to that inthe show notes or visit
patreoncom.
Slash film nuts.
Our theme this season isbrought to us by the Deep End.
Our artwork is designed byMudungwa Sibuhudi and all
episodes on the Film Nutspodcast are produced and edited
by me, taylor D Adams.
(52:58):
If you want to get in touch,you can email filmnutspodcast at
gmailcom or follow us onInstagram, tiktok and Twitter at
filmnutspodcast, and don'tforget to join the Nuthouse
Discord community absolutelyfree by checking out the link in
the show notes as well.
Thank you all again.
So much for listening today anduntil next time.
Here's hoping your lives arefilled with adventure and not
(53:20):
rodents of an unusual size.
Take care.
You can die too, for all I care as you wish.
Oh, my sweet Wesley, what haveI done?
Dr. Alex Dainis (00:15):
I think it has so many lovely elements of
storytelling and it has somelovely elements of friendship
and adventure.
It's one of the first adultfilms I remember watching as a
kid and enjoying.
Sometimes people like to hateon this movie a little bit
because it's not deep and it'snot dark and it's not, you know,
an exploration of the soul orsomething.
(00:36):
But it is a funny movie.
Taylor D. Adams (00:42):
Hi, I'm Taylor and welcome back to the Film
Nuts podcast, a show about whywe love what we watch.
So what's the best way to tella story?
Well, spoilers, there isn't oneright way.
Sure, there are things thatgood stories have in common,
like conflict and setups andpayoffs, but sometimes all a
(01:05):
story really needs is love.
The Princess Bride, starringCary Elwes, robin Wright and
Mandy Patinkin, is a story oftrue love as told by a
grandfather to his sick grandson.
It's heartwarming and hilarious, wholesome and goofy and a
constant boost of dopamine.
For my guest today, dr AlexDanis is a science communicator
(01:29):
making fun and educationalvideos about all things science
for curious audiences everywhere.
She tackles things likegenetics and physics, as well as
showcasing fun DIY scienceexperiments for people of all
ages.
Alex also happens to be someoneI've worked for on PBS's Hungry
Planet.
Alex and I talk about thecharming campiness of the
(01:51):
Princess Bride, how successfulthe grandfather is at telling a
story and our shared childhoodfear of quicksand.
So would you like to check itout as you?
Dr. Alex Dainis (02:04):
here's dr alex danis talking about the princess
bride on the film nuts podcastI think the last time we were in
person we were eating hot chilipeppers um yeah, that's, that's
that's what it was.
Oh my gosh, that was a longtime ago, yeah I'm excited that
that's not happening currently,um, because that was not not the
(02:25):
most fun, but not a greatmoment for you, but yeah no,
great moment for film, not forme personally, but yeah, since
since we wrapped up a hungryplanet I haven't been working
anything quite as big as that.
But you know, making vids withthe American Chemical Society
doing some stuff on chirality,with a chemistry nonprofit
(02:46):
called the Dreyfus Foundationworking with the Museum of
Science.
Taylor D. Adams (02:49):
Wait, what was that word?
What was that word you said?
Dr. Alex Dainis (02:51):
Chirality what?
Clip (02:53):
is that.
Dr. Alex Dainis (02:54):
So it is the idea that some molecules can
contain all of the same atomsbut have different
configurations, that we refer toas left and right handed.
So it's how your hands aresymmetrical.
But if you put them togetherthis way they overlap.
But they don't overlap this way, so they have a handedness to
them.
So some molecules have ahandedness and that can give
(03:16):
them totally differentproperties.
So you know, one handedness ofa sugar is sweet and the other
one your body can't digest.
One handedness of thalidomidehelps with pregnancy and the
other handedness of a sugar issweet and the other one your
body can't digest.
One handedness of thalidomidehelps with pregnancy and the
other handedness gives babiesterrible birth defects.
So knowing the yeah, knowingthe handedness of your molecules
is very important.
Taylor D. Adams (03:38):
I knew I was going to learn something talking
to you.
Dr. Alex Dainis (03:40):
Yeah, chemistry lesson for the day.
I can't tell you anything aboutthe chemistry of Iocane powder,
but I can tell you thechemistry of viral molecules.
Taylor D. Adams (03:50):
What a great segue, thank you.
It's like you tell stories fora living, for some reason.
Dr. Alex Dainis (03:57):
No, no way.
Taylor D. Adams (03:59):
So, speaking of Iocane powder, why did you want
to talk about the PrincessBride?
Dr. Alex Dainis (04:05):
So when you brought up films that I would
want to talk about, I thoughtabout a number of things.
Right, I thought aboutEverything, everywhere, all at
Once.
I thought about Eighth Grade.
I thought about a lot of filmsthat have moved me and made me
feel different ways, but then Irealized that none of those are
my favorite film and my favoritefilm is the Princess Bride.
Clip (04:27):
You guessed wrong.
You only think I guessed wrong.
That's what's so funny.
I switched glasses when yourback was turned.
You fool, you fell victim toone of the classic blunders.
The most famous is never, getinvolved in a land war in Asia,
but only slightly lesswell-known is this Never go in
against a Sicilian when death ison the line.
Dr. Alex Dainis (04:55):
And it's not an especially deep film and it's
not an especially complicatedfilm, but it's just.
I think it has so many lovelyelements of storytelling and it
has some lovely elements offriendship and adventure and is
just such a clear, you know,hero's journey kind of film.
(05:16):
And I did realize in watchingit and I'm sure we'll get into
this for the first time in likefive to ten years it it also has
some big problems, but I thinkoverall it is a it's just a fun
film and in watching it lastnight you know I was watching it
with my fiance, who was alittle skeptical of it kind of
thing, and like we were bothlaughing, like it's just, this
(05:38):
film is older than I am and juststill holds up and is funny and
charming and I think it's justa nice film and maybe it didn't
make me feel as deeply as someof the others but I just love it
and I also love and I'm goingto make you talk about the
accompanying book- oh, look atthat book.
(05:59):
You have the book, I have thebook, and this is my original
copy from high school that Idon't know if you'll be able to
tell on film, but looks like itwas purchased in like 1962.
This thing is like brown andweathered.
It's from, you know, the 2000s.
I think this printing was fromthe 90s.
But, like this book, just like,smells like an old book, which
is so fitting for this story.
(06:19):
Yeah, yeah, and it has the sameinteresting conceit of the movie
of a story being told versusjust the story itself, which is
cool.
Taylor D. Adams (06:31):
Ah, yeah, that's something I definitely
want to get into down the line.
Just the different techniquesthat this thing uses, yes, but,
like, you've talked about whatyou do like about this movie.
But what makes it your favorite, though, like is it because
it's been with you for a while,or is it something you watch
when you need comfort?
Like what is it?
Dr. Alex Dainis (06:51):
It's absolutely a comfort and nostalgia film.
It's one of the first.
I mean it's PG, but it's one ofthe first adult films I
remember watching as a kid andenjoying.
You know it wasn't.
It's definitely family friendly, but it wasn't necessarily made
for kids and it was one of thefirst not made for kids films
that I really enjoyed and likedand watched with my family and
(07:11):
everyone was sort of laughingalong and quoting it and I think
it's maybe one of the mostquotable movies in existence.
Um, and I think it's justsomething very unifying
throughout my childhood and thenearly adulthood of both
watching the movie and readingthe book and just really
(07:32):
enjoying that story for a long,long time.
Taylor D. Adams (07:37):
Do you, do you remember the first time you saw
it, or was it like that way toolong ago?
Dr. Alex Dainis (07:42):
Well, it was one of those things that I think
was kind of always on when Iwas a kid.
Taylor D. Adams (07:46):
And so.
Dr. Alex Dainis (07:46):
I don't specifically remember the first
time but I definitely rememberbeing a kid and I think, not
getting parts of it, not gettingyou grew up with that.
You know I never understood thelike never start a land war in
asia.
Line like what does that meanto a six-year-old, like what is
(08:12):
a land war in asia?
But you, you know it starts toget funny as you get older, sort
of thing.
Um, and I think the you knowthe relationship between mad max
and his wife valerie, you knowthat at the time is like why is
it funny that they're yelling ateach other?
And then you turn into an adultand you're like this is
hilarious that they're yellingat each other this way, um, and
like prodding each other withexactly what they know will
(08:34):
needle the other one liar liar,get back, witch.
Clip (08:38):
I'm not a witch, I'm your wife.
But after what you just said,I'm not even sure I want to be
that anymore you never had it sogood to love.
He said to love max don't sayanother word, valerie, he's
afraid.
Ever since prince humperdinckfired him, his confidence is
shattered.
Why'd you say that name?
You promised me that you wouldnever say that name.
Dr. Alex Dainis (08:55):
What humperdinck so I think that, too
, is one of those things that Iit has just sort of always been
there in that way that I thinkmany of these kind of 80s movies
of the time were and this wasthe one that I connected to the
most, but this one, and you know, labyrinth and um.
(09:19):
Robin Hood, men in Tights, likeall of these sort of movies of
that time period that just feltlike they were always on.
Taylor D. Adams (09:25):
When I was a kid this was my favorite of that
sort of time period of comedymovies so over over the years,
since it's like existed uh, foryou rather than the first time,
like the times you've watched it.
Is there something you'vegained more from?
Like, you talked about gettingthe jokes a little bit more, but
(09:47):
has it ever hit you in aparticular way?
I know it's not a deep film,but is there something about it
that you've watched over theyears that you like appreciate
something about it more or lessthan you did, like a previous
time you had watched it?
Dr. Alex Dainis (10:00):
I mean, I think one of the things that struck
me the more that I watched it,and especially in college when I
started really getting intofilmmaking and you know
understanding the aspects of astory and how things are told
and how different pieces of amovie came together.
I think Star Wars is often themovie that's picked out of, like
(10:23):
the hero's journey, like hereis Act One here is the inc out
of like the hero's journey, likehere is act one, here is the
inciting of it, here's all this.
But I think that this hits thosebeats so well and so
satisfyingly that that'ssomething that I think once I
started to learn how to pickmovies apart, I was able to
appreciate that no, it's not thedeepest plot in the world but
(10:43):
it does sort of reallysatisfyingly hit these moments
and I think the storytellingaspect of it too, the fact that
it is a story being told in abroader story and how the
grandfather and grandson'scommentary I think even
underscores, like the incitingevent and underscores like, well
(11:04):
, she can't die now, like shedoesn't die with the eels
because it's too early in thestory, like she exists at the
end, kind of thing.
I think those pieces are doneso well and are such an
interesting addition to thisthat takes it from being a super
standard fantasy story of youknow he's not a prince, but you
(11:25):
know prince rescues princess,kind of thing, and turns it into
something a little more witty,a little more interesting and a
little more fun.
Clip (11:32):
She doesn't get eaten by the eels at this time.
What the eel doesn't get her?
I'm explaining to you becauseyou look nervous.
I wasn't nervous.
Maybe I was a little bitconcerned, but that's not the
same thing, because we can stopnow if you want.
Taylor D. Adams (11:52):
No, you can read a little bit more if you
want.
Speaking of just kind of theway that the story is told, like
as someone whose job it is toexplain events and hard to
understand facts and topics inan entertaining way, how well do
you think Grandpa does attelling the story to his
grandson?
Dr. Alex Dainis (12:09):
OK.
So I think he does a great job,and I think that this is where
I'm going to veer into the booka little bit too.
So the conceit of the moviemovie right is that the
grandfather's coming over, he'stelling this story to the
grandson, but he's kind ofskipping over some parts a
little bit right at thebeginning.
(12:29):
The kid doesn't want to hearthe kissing parts, so he skips
over those parts, he just getsto the meat of the story.
For that reader, or for that, uh, viewer and the listener, the
book has a very similar butdifferent conceit that when you
pick up the book, it is S MorganStern's classic tale of true
(12:50):
love and high adventure, butit's edited by William Goldman
and the whole beginning of thebook is that William Goldman is
telling this story about how heused to love this book.
His father read to him that waswritten by S Morgan Stern.
He bought a copy of it for hisson and his son was like this is
the most boring thing ever.
And when he picked the book uphe realized that his father had
(13:14):
been telling him an abridgedversion and that the original
book by S Morgan Stern had allthis stuff about politics and
the background on floor and inGilder and all this, but when
his father read it to him heskipped those parts out.
So now William Goldman wasgoing to publish an abridged
version that only told the goodparts and skipped the boring
parts.
(13:35):
Now the reality is that S MorganStern doesn't exist.
There is no unabridged versionof the book.
This is the only version of thebook that exists, but the whole
conceit of the book is thatyou're reading an abridged
version and I love that.
I love that there's this likeexterior world that we're a part
of in the book.
That is reading the book,something about that I haven't
(13:59):
seen done similarly and.
I've seen some things like it,uh, in the years since, but when
I first read this in highschool, I'd never seen anything
like that done before, and itwas such an immersive way of
reading the book that you feltlike you were reading it along
with someone, and I think thatthat's something that movie, the
movie, does too, is that youare not watching this movie
(14:21):
alone.
You're not experiencing thestory alone.
You're experiencing it with thegrandfather and with the
grandson and getting theirlittle perspectives on it and
the grandson being like ew, it'sa kissing book, and like I'm
not worried about her dying fromthe eels and like well, who
kills humperdinck.
Like you get all those thingsthat you feel from the social
experience of watching a movie,but they're embedded in the
(14:43):
movie and I you know there arethings that do that right, like
mystery, science, theater, 3000or whatever, like they kind of
do that.
You know there are some showsout there that do that, but it's
it's a interesting way to me ofgetting that social aspect of
watching the movie into themovie itself, but that's not
what you asked.
You asked if the grandfatherdoes a good job, and I think I
(15:05):
think he does.
I think he's keying in on whohis audience is, what his
audience wants from the storyand what he needs to communicate
to get him there.
And he changes at the end whenhe's like, oh, you don't want to
hear about the kissing part,we'll skip that.
And the audience is like, well,actually maybe I do want to
hear the kissing part, and he'slike, okay, like well, then
we'll add that back in, causeyou wanted that additional
information.
So there's a dialogue betweenthe you know presenter and the
(15:28):
audience.
So I think he does a good job.
But I think, more than anything, that's such a it's a fun way
to watch a movie.
It's a fun way to experiencethat social part of a movie.
Taylor D. Adams (15:40):
Yeah, it's very , yeah, it's very meta in the
way that it does that.
But like I don't remember thefirst time I saw this either,
because, yeah, it was one ofthose things, it was just kind
of always on.
Yeah, as I was watching it,like the poisoning scene happens
30 minutes into the movie yeah,I remember that being the whole
movie.
Like I remember that happeninglike at the end of the movie and
(16:02):
like it happened in the first30 minutes, I was like wait,
what else happens?
And then, as this stuff goes on, I was like I remember all this
stuff but I could have sworn.
The poisoning scene is like thedenouement is like it's like
the like right after the climax.
But I was like oh, this there'slike I got an hour left.
What's going to?
I had no idea.
Clip (16:20):
All right, where is the poison?
The battle of wits has begun.
It ends when you decide, and weboth drink and find out who is
right and who is dead.
Taylor D. Adams (16:30):
You talked a little bit about the hero's
journey, um, and that this iskind of an example of that.
What you you kind ofapproaching it in an analytical
way, and for someone who makesscience videos, that makes sense
.
Uh, is there a particular theway that you approach making
videos about science and hard tounderstand topics for us, us
(16:52):
common people like what's youranalytical approach to doing
something like that?
Dr. Alex Dainis (16:59):
My approach, and this is not something that I
came up with, but it'ssomething that has really
resonated with me.
Um, when I was actually an oralcommunication tutor at Stanford
, one of the things that theytaught was to know your age, and
it stood for audience, goal andenvironment, and I like to
think that I have taken that and, like, really applied it to
(17:21):
everything that I do.
That is for any story I'mtelling, any video, I'm making
any script, I'm writing.
Before I do anything, I want tofigure out who is my audience,
what is my goal and what is theenvironment that this is going
to live in.
So, for a lot of things I do,the environment is YouTube or
it's TikTok, but those twoenvironments require something
(17:44):
different, right?
If you're going to filmsomething horizontal for YouTube
versus vertical for TikTok, youneed to know that upfront,
right?
So the environment you'representing the information in is
important, but I think audienceand goal are the big things is
always being really specificabout who are you talking to?
What do what can you assumethat they know?
What can you not assume thatthey know?
What do you think they want toknow?
(18:06):
Right?
What do you want them?
What do you think that they'regoing to want to get out of this
, and then what is your actualgoal?
And that goal can be reallydifferent, right?
So, if you are, I use thisexample often.
When I was defending my thesis,my goal was to get out of there
and prove I was smart, veryspecific goal.
(18:27):
But when I was writing somethinglike Hungry Planet, the goal is
to get the audience to thinkabout science in their daily
lives.
And so once you figure out whateach of those specific audience,
goal and environment are, thenyou can start building your film
, you can start building yourscript, you can start adding
(18:51):
things to it and always asking,of every little piece you add in
, does this support my audienceand my goal and my environment?
And I think that for me again,it's why I really like the
grandfather's storytelling.
You know he figures out who hisaudience is, what that audience
needs.
The goal is really to distracthim from feeling sick.
The environment is that he'sgoing to be sitting there with a
book, so he's got to bring hisbook.
He pulls in a chair, he sitsdown, gets cozy like I think we
all do that as communicators andas filmmakers but I think
(19:15):
really being intentional andanalytical about writing those
things down or telling peoplewhat they are, and just being
really clear helps to keepthings on track and helps to
make your message as clear aspossible.
Taylor D. Adams (19:31):
So what's the AGE of this movie?
Not.
Dr. Alex Dainis (19:36):
Grandpa's, not his.
Taylor D. Adams (19:37):
Thing but of this movie, what do you think?
Dr. Alex Dainis (19:40):
Of the movie.
So environment is the easiest,although I think that's changed
over the years.
So environment was a giantmovie theater or maybe on a tape
you're going to bring home andplay in your own television.
But I think that you know thataffects set design, that affects
how you're going to film it.
You know all of those thingsare affected by the environment.
You're going to film it.
(20:01):
You know all of those thingsare affected by the environment.
The audience, I would sayprobably.
You know, oh see, part of mewants to go 80s comedy, adult
audience.
But I do think that they werepretty aware that it was
probably going to be afamily-friendly film.
You know there's one swear inthere At one point he calls him.
(20:21):
You know I want my father backyou, son of a bitch.
And I think that that stillallowed them to be PG, because
it was only one and it was likereally well intentioned but they
weren't swearing all the time.
You know, they were sort oflooking still at that.
We're in a PG rating kind ofthing.
So PG audience and then goalsto entertain.
I mean, goal of this kind ofmovie is to entertain and I
think you can get more specificwith themes of true love and,
(20:45):
you know, adventure and thatkind of thing, adventures and a
theme.
But you know, there there aresome themes here that true love
and, I think, friendship as well.
I think we see a lot ofbuilding up of, uh, inigo and
wesley and physics sort of asthis team.
You know those relationshipsbetween them as well as
important.
But yeah, I think, I think thegoal here really is just
(21:08):
entertainment.
We're entertaining where we'remaking money.
Right, that's part of the filmbusiness we're going to, we're
going to make some money to makethe next film too.
Taylor D. Adams (21:17):
So what did you fall in love with first?
Science or filmmaking?
Dr. Alex Dainis (21:24):
oh, neither what I fell in love with well,
no, I know, I know, but let melet me follow that up because I
think it's important is thatwhat I fell in love with first
was storytelling and I have avery specific memory this is
actually kind of sad, but I havea specific memory of being a
(21:46):
kid and thinking I wish therewas a job, that I could just
tell stories all day.
But then my sad little childbrain was like but that would be
lying, no jobs, let you do that.
Taylor D. Adams (21:59):
How old were you during this?
Dr. Alex Dainis (22:01):
I was eight, eight maybe like little right,
but like I, I loved tellingstories, I loved coming up with
like fantasy worlds, like Iloved all that sort of like
imaginative, imaginative playand writing.
I loved writing, I wrote theworst.
Oh god, I hope they always stayburied on a hard drive like, and
no one should ever see them.
But I wrote stories all thetime and I actually wrote
(22:22):
thinking back.
I wrote a lot of likefantasy-esque stories of like
princesses escaping their castleand going on adventures, and I
liked reading those kinds ofthings too.
I really loved the world ofstorytelling but I did not see
it as something that I could doas a career.
And I really enjoyed science.
You, by the time I got to sortof middle school, high school, I
(22:43):
really enjoyed science a lot.
I also enjoyed taking.
I had a little like Canon powershot camera that could take
videos and I would take videosof my friends all the time and
edit them together.
But I also didn't see filmmakingas something that I could make
into a serious career.
And I went to college forscience and for biology and it
(23:04):
wasn't until, I think, mysophomore year that I kind of
let myself start taking a coupleof film courses.
There was a film minor at thatpoint in time and then they
opened it up as a major and Ifelt weird about it.
But I was like, well, I'vestill got science, like I'll do
filmmaking as a major, but I'mI'm really a scientist right,
like that's my thing okay.
Taylor D. Adams (23:25):
But I felt like I got a really so you decided
that you were gonna like have adouble major.
Is that the decision?
Dr. Alex Dainis (23:32):
yeah, yeah, so I double majored uh in biology
and film, um, and felt like Igot a really great hands-on bio
experience, but, through nofault of their own, the film
department was very young, andso I didn't felt like I got a
really great hands-on bioexperience.
but, through no fault of theirown, the film department was
very young, and so I didn't feellike I got the best hands-on
film experience just becausethere weren't enough
opportunities yet.
It really wasn't their fault.
So I graduated and I was burntout and knew I wasn't going to
(23:56):
go straight to grad school andended up getting a job at a
small production company thatdid mostly videos and
installations for museums andthat was really, really fun
because it let me sort of be.
I was an associate producer.
I got to do all parts of thefilmmaking world but for this
sort of niche and sometimesscientific area, but again
(24:20):
really still niche and sometimesscientific area, but again
really still I loved it.
That job was incredible but Istill knew I was going to go
back to school for science.
I knew I was going to go and getmy PhD in science and I just
sort of had you know YouTubechannel on the side, but this is
a long way of saying I didn'trealize until the very end of
grad school that I could do bothand that I could have a career
(24:41):
that would combine science andfilmmaking and storytelling into
something that you know, knockon wood and huge amounts of
gratitude to the universeactually allows me to make a
career and keep doing the stuffthat I love.
So it was the answer to youroriginal question.
Which did I fall in love with?
First?
I think maybe science, maybescience just because I was more
(25:08):
exposed to it.
But truly the thing that Ireally loved and that I think
both of them allow me to do istell stories, and that's just
the most fun part.
Taylor D. Adams (25:16):
So sorry for the interruption, but I will be
brief.
I am so grateful that youdecided to listen to the Film
Nuts podcast today.
If you are enjoying what you'rehearing, please consider
supporting the show on Patreon.
With a small monthly amount,you can get access to behind the
scenes goodies, early access tofull episodes and you can vote
on what movie we watch the firstMonday of every month on the
(25:37):
Nuthouse Discord.
The Nuthouse itself is free tojoin and is full of other film
and TV lovers, so you'll fitright in.
You can check out info on allthese things in the show notes,
and if all of this sounds like abit too much, that's totally
okay.
But if you want to keep up todate on all of our episodes,
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leave a rating and review so wecan get in front of other
(25:59):
awesome people like yourself.
Okay, enough of me ramblingBack to the good stuff.
So your fantasy stories youused to write that you hope
never see the light of day.
Dr. Alex Dainis (26:11):
Tell me the one that was your favorite that you
wrote the one that was myfavorite, that I wrote.
I don't even actually remember.
I don't remember a ton of theplot other than there was a
princess who was in a castle andshe I don't know what the
motivating, motivating factorwas, but she had to escape for
(26:33):
some reason and knowing myselfat that age was probably like
she was being forced intomarriage and she had to escape.
So she steals a horse and shegoes off and I also I really
loved the details of these kindsof stories.
I really loved the worldbuilding aspect of it.
So I remember that I spent alot of time detailing what she
(26:53):
brought with her and what, likethe riding clothes and what the
horse looked like, like I reallyloved the world building aspect
of that of like what did thisplace?
I didn't know that this is whatI was doing, but what did this
place look?
Taylor D. Adams (27:07):
like right kind of thing.
Dr. Alex Dainis (27:09):
So she escapes, she makes it to a local town
where obviously nobodyrecognizes her as the princess
of this thing.
Um, and she, she like, madesome kind of career, like years
passed and then she went backand she reassumed the throne,
like it was again.
All of this was like I don'tknow, maybe a 20 page story I
wrote when I was 10 or something, but I just remember really
(27:31):
enjoying the like adventure andgoing out and making your way,
and I think this has come backup in my life a lot that the
books I loved to read too.
I was just talking withsomebody about, you know.
You know I loved my side of themountain and I loved a girl
named disaster.
I loved these books where thesepreteens were like running off
into the woods and making theirway and then coming back and
(27:53):
being like I've learned things.
Um and I was not an outdoorsykid but I've become a very
outdoorsy adult who lovescamping and backpacking and
those sorts of things and Ithink I'm finally fulfilling
that part of me that wanted to,wanted to go on a journey and an
adventure as a kid and now cansafely, with proper training, do
it as an adult.
Exist in these worlds that Iwas reading about in books and I
(28:24):
wanted to.
Yeah, I was so oriented on thedetails of like what was in her
satchel that she brought withher.
What tools did she need andagain, I see that so much in
myself as an adult now of like Ilove the planning and the like
gear aspect of backpacking, oflike what tools get to go in my
satchel.
There's definitely a throughline there.
Taylor D. Adams (28:41):
So, like with the stories you wrote as a kid
and the fact that now you so, asa kid you didn't like do a lot
of outdoor stuff, were youadventurous at all, like as a
person, as a little kid or?
Dr. Alex Dainis (28:53):
No, I was a shy , quiet kid and you know I was
outdoorsy in the sense that,like my mom had a garden and I
would like plant flowers andstuff, but I didn't really go
camping.
You know, girl Scouts at thetime was all about selling
cookies.
It wasn't actually about doingoutdoor things.
You know, I was not that personas a kid.
(29:17):
I was very reserved and veryquiet and very honestly scared
of the world in a lot of ways,and I think that's probably what
I admired about a lot of thesestories was it was people who
weren't scared of those thingswho were going out in the world
and taking charge.
And that's actually one of thethings that I again I hadn't
actually watched this movie inlike five, six years that I
noticed last night that I waslike man butter.
(29:40):
Buttercup does nothing in thismovie, you know.
I was like she's classic 80s,80s problem, you know exactly,
but I remember, even as a kid,the scene, that poisoning scene,
you know.
Wesley and Vizzini are goingback and forth and she's just
sitting there with a blindfoldon.
And I remember, even as a kidbeing like it's so weird that
(30:00):
she's just sitting there with ablindfold on, and I remember,
even as a kid being like it's soweird that she's just sitting
there with a blindfold on, but Ididn't question it more than
just like note that it was weirdand last night I was like God
damn it, like go run away, Likewhat are you doing?
So I think you know, I think ifI had to pick a character in
this story like I probablywanted to be Wesley, right, I
wanted to be the Dread PirateRoberts and running around with
(30:21):
the sword and doing all thesekinds of things, and I just
think it's funny that Iconnected so strongly with this,
whereas, looking back in thestories I was writing, it was
always the princess going outand doing these things right and
like man.
The story is called thePrincess Bride and the princess
does nothing.
Taylor D. Adams (30:35):
She just does absolutely nothing this whole
movie, other than being like alittle grumpy sometimes I guess
the one thing she does do is sheescapes the first time and
tries to swim to shore, but shedoes.
Dr. Alex Dainis (30:48):
But that's about it yeah, and she doesn't
even get herself back in theboat, right like she doesn't
even swim back to the boat,fesik, just like, yoinks her out
of the water at one point, um,but it's just like, okay, you're
right, I guess I should giveher credit, she does try, but
then after that she just givesup entirely, even in the, even
in the fire swamp.
I think I was a littlesurprised that, like you know,
(31:09):
they can hear the pop, pop, popand instead of her stepping to
the side every time, wesleypicks her up and moves her over.
And I'm like, ma'am, just like,step to your left.
Taylor D. Adams (31:19):
Yeah, maybe she should have, yeah, read some
more fantasy novels.
She would have been moreprepared.
I agree, pack some, pack somebetter gear.
Maybe she would have beenbetter off.
Dr. Alex Dainis (31:28):
Yeah, that is one thing again too, that I
noticed last night.
That Is so silly of a thing tonotice.
None of them have anything withthem.
Like literally all Wesley hasis a sword and apparently a tuba
.
I came powder, but as he's likerunning over the mountains, at
one point I was like man, I wishI would want a water bottle,
(31:49):
I'd want a snack.
Taylor D. Adams (31:50):
Like all these people are totally unprepared
for the situations they'regetting themselves into, were
you as terrified of quicksand asa kid as I was, and like where
is the quicksand now?
Where is the?
Dr. Alex Dainis (31:59):
quicksand.
Now, where is the quicksand?
Well, I'll tell you, I had myone almost encounter with
quicksand last week.
Um, I know, I know, I finallyand I thought this in the moment
I was like it's happening, thisis my, this is my quicksand
moment, because you're right, soquicksand, there were a bunch
of things like that that, askids quicksand I thought I'd run
into all the time.
(32:20):
Sticks of dynamite seemed likea thing that people just
stumbled across all the time,especially in like looney tunes,
and stuff like that waseverywhere.
Um, those washing machines ordryers that you'd like roll
things through, those alwaysshowed up in cartoons yeah, yeah
but like never in my life.
Um, but last week I went outwith a friend to death valley
(32:42):
because, after the hurricanelast year, death valley actually
currently has a lake in it andyou can go out onto this lake
which is very cool it's supercool, but it's not really like a
beautiful lake you imagine, youknow, with an oasis around it,
because it's normally just amuddy excuse me, muddy basin.
(33:03):
So as we're walking out there,there's this salt crust on
everything, and so you'rewalking on the salt, on mud, and
that's fine, and then suddenlyyour foot punches down through
the salt and you just hit thissand and mud underneath you and
it just like sucks into yourankle, um, and it's not so deep,
(33:23):
but you know, I got two stepsout and if you stop you start
sinking down into it.
And so, you know, my friend andI are taking pictures and we're
looking around and I'm takingpictures of her, like out in the
lake, and then I go to move andI was like, oh, I'm, I'm stuck.
And there were people thinkthankfully we had seen people
take off their shoes, so wedidn't have our shoes on, but
there were people's shoes thatwere just like stuck out in the
(33:43):
mud.
Oh, wow, because you were, itwas really sort of squelching
you down and I was like this isthis is my quicksand moment.
I know not to panic.
I know to like slowly liftmyself up but yeah, as a kid you
know, quicksand was ineverything and I just I was so
prepared for like I would meetit every time.
(34:04):
And now, once in 35 years haveI met quicksand and it was
thankfully not life-threatening,though I will say the salt
because it's, it's crystallizedinto these.
You know, beautiful little you,not hexagonal, but I guess sort
of square, chunky crystals.
It cut up our ankles, like myankles have all these little
(34:25):
cuts on them from like goingdown through the salt and the
mud below.
Clip (34:29):
Yeah.
Dr. Alex Dainis (34:30):
So beautiful and weird and strange, but the
only time in my entire life thatI have encountered something
even close to quicksand.
Taylor D. Adams (34:42):
So one thing I was noticing while watching this
movie I had for it's.
I don't know how long it's beensince I've actually seen this
movie.
Um, I actually want to saymaybe I've only actually ever
seen it once, but then I've justseen bits like throughout yes,
you know, yes, so this movie'sso funny, like I was laughing
way more than I rememberlaughing, and it was such a
(35:05):
weird balance I thought of, likeit's, it's so goofy and yet
it's really clever.
But it also balances being likea family movie and a romance
and like some kind of like metacommentary on story and all of
it works.
Like nothing stands out as likenothing works about this movie.
So, like here's, here's aninteresting question If someone
(35:30):
God forbid this gets remade andthey do the exact same, like
what do they do?
The exact same thing?
Would it work?
Or if they did it and they didsome other bullshit, uh, would
that work?
Dr. Alex Dainis (35:57):
I mean, I would be heartbroken if they ever
remade this because I do thinkthat there's something about the
time period that made it work.
I think it's.
You know it's it's goofy, butit's also I think it really is
campy right, like I think thisactually hits.
It's really hard to be campywell and I think this hits that.
I think if they did it now,there would be CGI and there
would be all this stuff.
That would just feel wrong,like when they're in that scene
in the fire swamp.
Clip (36:18):
What are the three terrors of the fire swamp?
One the flame spurt, no problem, there's a fire swamp.
One the flames burn, no problem.
There's a popping soundproceeding.
Each we can avoid that.
Two the lightning sound, butyou were clever enough to
discover what that looks like.
So in the future.
We can avoid that too, wesley.
What about the RUSs?
Rodents of unusual size?
I don't think they exist.
Dr. Alex Dainis (36:40):
This is the first time that I had noticed
this and I was like, oh my gosh,there's a person.
Taylor D. Adams (36:44):
There's a person in the rat suit.
Dr. Alex Dainis (36:45):
There's a person in the rat suit.
Taylor D. Adams (36:47):
That's who I noticed too.
Dr. Alex Dainis (36:48):
Waving their arms and I was like, oh my gosh,
but like it's so funny becauseof that.
It is funny because you're like, oh my God, there's a person in
the rat suit and if they madethat a CGI rat it would be.
It would just feel gross anduncanny valley and like, but no
one would let you today.
I don't think anyone todaywould let you put a person in
(37:09):
the rat suit.
Or if they did, it would belike a jurassic park style rat
suit that looks really real.
And it's so funny because itdoesn't look real like the face
on that rat is so ridiculouslypuppety that I think just worked
so well in that time period.
And I think too, there's thecast is incredible.
I don't know who you could castin some of those roles today
(37:34):
that would hit as well as theyall did.
I mean, mandy Patinkin has donea thousand incredible things,
but he will always be InigoMontoya, like that's.
That's just who he is, and I, Ithink too, like god.
Billy Crystal as Mad Max, likeall of those people, I think,
just do such an incredible job.
I would hate to see who theycast in those roles today,
(37:58):
because they could.
It doesn't matter who it is,they couldn't live.
I think the practicality of itbeing made in the 80s, the like
fact that all of those sets werereal, that it was all these
people just kind of goofing offbut doing it in this really
refined way, I just don't thinkit would hit the same way if it
was made today.
I really don't and I'd hate tosee it in CGI.
(38:21):
Oh, that would kill me.
Taylor D. Adams (38:24):
Yeah, I don't think.
Yeah, definitely I'm.
I'm much more of a fan of likethings being like practical,
like practical effects.
You know, go ahead, throwsomebody in a rat suit, like
that it's.
It's weird, like I always like.
The peak of practical effectsto me is like 80s horror movies,
like, yeah, the thing is likethat's perfect, like everything
(38:44):
that's horror and practical andthe thing is lovely and I mean
it's gross, but it's perfect.
Clip (38:49):
Yes.
Taylor D. Adams (38:50):
So, yeah, I'm just kind of like, yeah, we
would, we should not, we shouldstop.
You know, we, the industry,should stop remaking stuff, but
we don't have another hour to godown that rabbit hole.
No, Okay, spinning back intothe positive.
What is your favorite moment orscene from this movie?
Dr. Alex Dainis (39:12):
Oh, that's a great question, because I have
so many, I mean, I think that'sreally really hard.
I think there are a number thatmake me laugh really hard.
Again, the whole scene with MadMax I think is delightful.
I quote the like mutton,lettuce and tomato line, like
(39:33):
all the time.
Clip (39:34):
True love is the greatest thing in the world, except for a
nice MLT, a mutton, lettuce andtomato sandwich.
When the mutton is nice andlean and the tomato is ripe,
it's so perky I love that.
Dr. Alex Dainis (39:45):
I think everything about that scene is
so funny and so delightful.
I do think that the to the painyou know.
Speech.
Clip (39:57):
To the pain means the first thing you lose will be
your feet below the ankles, thenyour hands at the wrists, next
to your nose and then my tongue.
I suppose I killed you tooquickly the last time.
A mistake?
I don't mean to duplicate.
Tonight I wasn't finished.
The next thing you lose will beyour left eye, followed by your
right, and then my ears.
Dr. Alex Dainis (40:17):
I understand, let's get on with it and he
stands up at the end with thesword and he says drop, your
sword is so powerful, and thenhe immediately like kind of
collapses.
But I think, honestly, thethings that get me more are the
little, just the little funnymoments in there.
Like one of the things I crackedup about the most last night is
there Wesley isn't quite wokenback up from his death yet and
(40:40):
Fezzik is sort of carrying himand just like moving his head to
look between people as they'reand like it's just so funny to
me, like it's those littlemoments that are just like oh
gosh, like that's so great and I, yeah, I think honestly it's
the little bits throughout thatmovie that I love the most,
though I think visually there'ssomething that always struck me
(41:03):
and again I think it's becauseit's sort of a practical effect
that I really love of them alljumping out of the window at the
end onto the white horses, likeas she falls down and like her
dress is fluttering or whateverit's just such like a oh yeah,
we're watching a fantasy filmand this isn't real and it's
just like this beautifulconstructed moment, like I do
love that it wraps up soperfectly and beautifully, again
(41:27):
as sort of a commentary on thatwhole genre.
Taylor D. Adams (41:29):
But just like it fits, it fits there what did
your uh, what did your fianceethink of this movie?
You said he was kind ofhesitant to watch it.
But what did he think?
Dr. Alex Dainis (41:39):
oh hesitant, in that he is like a serious film
buff and that this is not aserious film.
And so when I was like guesswhat, I'm taking over our TV
with this tonight, he, you know,he kind of groaned or whatever,
but he too he was laughingalong and like admitted sort of
similarly that like he'dforgotten how funny the movie
was.
Um, and so I think that's oneof the things where I think I
(42:00):
think sometimes people like tohate on this movie a little bit
because it's not deep and it'snot dark and it's not, you know,
an exploration of the soul orsomething, but it is a funny
movie, like it is a comedy andit is.
It hits all the notes it needsto hit and I think you know he
appreciated that, I think morethan he expected he would last
(42:21):
night when it was like.
Oh yeah, this is.
This is really good.
And just catching him tolaughing at all those little
bits like that too, like themoving the head back and forth
he was laughing at.
Taylor D. Adams (42:28):
Yeah, I was like I don't think I noticed
that bit until, yeah, I didn'tnotice that bit until like
toward the end of the scene andI was like, oh, he's turning his
(42:48):
head the whole time.
It's great, this.
What was kind of interesting tome watching this is like, yeah,
it's funny, it's veryentertaining, like it's got like
the 80s problems of movies,which is like, yes, you forgive
it because it's of the time, andas long as the movie itself is
good, you're like cool, whatever.
Yeah, but what really struck meis so the like.
The very last line of the movieis like the grandpa says to the
grandson, as you wish, which islike code for I love you and
i'm'm thinking back for like,like this is going to sound like
grand and, you know,pretentious, but like the power
(43:10):
like of stories and that thefact they can connect us across
distances and generations, like.
I guess just that kind of like.
That's an opinion I have andsomething I noticed.
I don't know if there'ssomething that you, you, you
agree with or if you want toexpand upon.
I, I started talking and Ididn't realize it was a question
.
I was like I'm just gonna saythis and see what happens well,
(43:33):
no, I think, I think it's a good.
Dr. Alex Dainis (43:35):
I think it's sort of the whole commentary on
not just story and movies ingeneral, but that specifically
right.
That like the son is so annoyedthat his grandfather is coming
over, he doesn't feel good, hedoesn't want the grandfather to
pinch his cheek like he doesn'twant to do this, but then
through the power of story, youknow, they connect over that,
they connect across thesegenerations and he asks him to
(43:56):
come back tomorrow, sort ofthing.
So I think I think it's.
If there is a theme, certainlythe broader theme of the movie
is love in all these differentkinds of ways.
You know the love of InigoMontoya for his father sends him
on this entire revenge journey.
You know the love betweenWesley and Buttercup sets this
whole movie in motion, kind ofthing.
You know Humperdinck doesn'tlove her, he loves his country
(44:18):
more than that and that setsacross, you know, this whole
idea that he's going to try andstart a war, there's all these.
Taylor D. Adams (44:23):
He loves his, he loves his position more than
his country.
But yes, that's true, that'sactually.
Dr. Alex Dainis (44:28):
Yes, that's a much better way of phrasing that
he loves, he loves his power,um, but it does all wrap back up
again between the grandfatherand the son.
That that's really what drovethis story and what told the
story quite literally was thelove between the grandfather and
the son.
So no, I think that's a perfectobservation, that really that
is that's storytelling, but alsothis story are you gonna
(44:52):
convince your fiancee to say asyou wish to you more?
oh, I oof that, I think wouldfreak me out like that, like
it's a little too much like hewould say it and you would be
like, stop, don't, don't do itas you wish was all he ever said
farm boy, fill these with waterplease as you wish.
Clip (45:26):
That day, she was amazed to discover that when he was
saying as you wish, what hemeant was I love you again.
Dr. Alex Dainis (45:33):
That's one of the things that I I didn't
notice before but like inaddition to buttercup doing
practically nothing in thismovie, I'm like man you were
kind of a bitch like at thewhole beginning like oh man like
okay, I don't know why, wesley,you fell in love with her, but
like she was kind of mean to youfor a long time, um yeah yeah,
(45:55):
they just had to get out of theway.
Taylor D. Adams (45:56):
Play, listen, uh, she's in love with him, deal
with it.
And now the story starts likethat.
Dr. Alex Dainis (46:01):
It really, it really does.
They really just like, turnsout they were in love with each
other and now we start the story.
Taylor D. Adams (46:08):
Um, yeah, there's a lot of convenient
things going on, but, like again, we're looking it through a
lens of this happened, you know,almost 40 years ago, maybe 40
years ago, um yeah, so thingshave changed.
Dr. Alex Dainis (46:21):
I'm.
I'm okay with those kinds ofmoments in movies sometimes when
it's like you know, I reallydon't want to see their whole
love story, Like I kind of don'tcare, I want to see them get to
the good parts, and I thinkthere are so many times in
television and movie now wherethose points can be really
belabored and it's like, oh myGod, can we just get?
(46:42):
Like I get it, this personhates this person and they're
going to try and kill.
Like let's just go, like keepgoing.
So I actually really don't mindthat in this, that it's like,
yeah, that's not the point.
Like, just believe this andlet's keep going.
Taylor D. Adams (46:56):
So where you are now in your life, having,
you know, uh, grown up tellingstories and gotten like, less
scared about the world, um, lessshy.
Is there any?
Sometimes I hate this question,but sometimes the response is
really good.
But like would you say anythingto eight year old you to like
(47:19):
tell her it's okay or it's a,you know, you can be less scared
, the world's not that bad?
Like would, not knowing whatyou know now, were there
anything you would say?
Dr. Alex Dainis (47:28):
For sure I would.
I mean I was a.
I think it served me well, butI was a kid who was so concerned
with doing the right thing atall times, you know.
I had to get the best grade andI had to make sure I wasn't
breaking any rules and all thatand that served me well.
It got me, you know, far in myacademic career and I think is
(47:51):
an important life lesson.
But I do wish she'd known it wasokay to break rules sometimes,
you know.
It was okay to color outsidethe lines, it was okay to be a
little different and creative,because it took me a really long
time, I think, to get to apoint where I felt comfortable
feeling creative andunderstanding that I could have
(48:11):
a career.
And I still feel a little weirdcalling myself creative.
It's still something that Ithink is a skill that I work on
and I wish it's a skill I hadfelt comfortable, comfortable
developing sooner.
So I think, you know, takingchances, breaking the rules, a
little bit, coloring outside thelines I wish that I could go
back and tell her that you knowit's okay to go be a pirate on a
(48:34):
pirate ship for five years andthen train someone else to be
the pirate after you, Like youknow, maybe, maybe not all the
killing people parts of it, butI think that life is so much
more interesting when you are alittle less scared of it.
So, yeah, I wish, I wish I couldgo back and tell her that.
Taylor D. Adams (48:53):
I didn't realize how many quotable
moments from this movie what?
Yeah.
One of my favorites was likethere's not a lot of money in
revenge.
I thought that line was reallyfunny for some reason.
So to send us home.
What is your favorite quote?
Dr. Alex Dainis (49:10):
I've been struggling with this because, as
you said, so much of this movieis so quotable and I went back
and forth between two and Ifinally narrowed it down because
these are the two that I usethe most and I quote this movie
all the time it down becausethese are the two that I use the
most, and I quote this movieall the time, and so I think one
of my, my second favorite, isafter Vizzini says inconceivable
(49:31):
for something that isabsolutely conceivable.
For the third or fourth time,inigo turns to him and says you
keep using the word.
I don't think it means what youthink it means and I love that
so much like it's so perfect inthe movie, but it's also just so
perfect in so many aspects oflife.
Taylor D. Adams (49:48):
Right.
Dr. Alex Dainis (49:48):
Like everyone knows that person who keeps
saying this thing.
It's like I don't think thatmeans what you think it means.
Taylor D. Adams (49:54):
Right yeah.
Dr. Alex Dainis (49:55):
And I I love that so much.
But the other one is actuallyanother Inigo moment where he is
trying to explain what happenedthat day and he was like let me
explain.
Clip (50:06):
No, there is too much.
Dr. Alex Dainis (50:08):
Let me sum up and I think that that's like
both of those together are justmy career.
It's like I don't think thatword means what you think it
means and then also like let meexplain, no, there's too much.
Let me sum up like I, I lovethose both and they're not even
the funniest parts of the movie,but they're just ones that I
quote all the time, I thinkabout all the time and I just
like.
Let me sum up, like, oh no, Ijust feel that so often and I
(50:33):
think as well, is an importantstorytelling lesson.
Taylor D. Adams (50:38):
When you said the first one, I was like, yes,
that makes so much sense forAlex.
And then the second one itmakes even more sense.
Like I'm going to, I'm going tosum up the ways that you're
wrong.
I'm going to sum up the ways.
Here's the right thing to say,here's the facts, and I'm going
to sum it up in a way that issuper digestible for you to
understand, which is what youwere doing now, and you're doing
(50:59):
a great job at it, and I'm verygrateful that we got to work on
some projects together and,hopefully, projects in the
future, right?
Dr. Alex Dainis (51:05):
Yes, yes, fingers crossed.
I got a whole bunch of stuffthat I hope we can work on in
the future, because that's oneof the great things I think
about the careers that we're inis you get to meet a bunch of
people who all have cool skillsand they'd be like, oh my gosh,
can our skills make somethingtogether?
Like that's the most fun part.
Taylor D. Adams (51:30):
I think one of the great things about movies,
books and art in general istheir ability to take us to
places beyond our imagination.
We can treat these journeys asescapes from our everyday lives,
but what I think is really coolis when these journeys are able
to expand our horizons.
Watching a movie about braveand intrepid adventurers makes
us want to get out there andexplore the world.
(51:52):
A film about forgingfriendships can force us to
re-evaluate our ownrelationships, and enjoying a
romantic comedy can lead us tolove each other a little bit
more, even if it doesn't end upin marriage.
A huge thanks to Alex forchatting with me today and a
Fezzik-sized thank you to youfor listening.
(52:14):
Please check out some of thelinks in the show notes for some
of Alex's work, includingepisodes of Hungry Planet.
If you enjoyed the episodetoday, please go ahead and
subscribe on your favoritepodcast platform of choice, and
if you happen to be listening onApple Podcasts, please pretty
please leave a rating and reviewso it helps us get in front of
more awesome people likeyourself.
If you want to continuesupporting the show and maybe
(52:36):
help it grow a little bit andget some cool perks in the
process, please considersupporting the Film Notes
podcast on Patreon.
You can find links to that inthe show notes or visit
patreoncom.
Slash film nuts.
Our theme this season isbrought to us by the Deep End.
Our artwork is designed byMudungwa Sibuhudi and all
episodes on the Film Nutspodcast are produced and edited
by me, taylor D Adams.
(52:58):
If you want to get in touch,you can email filmnutspodcast at
gmailcom or follow us onInstagram, tiktok and Twitter at
filmnutspodcast, and don'tforget to join the Nuthouse
Discord community absolutelyfree by checking out the link in
the show notes as well.
Thank you all again.
So much for listening today anduntil next time.
Here's hoping your lives arefilled with adventure and not
(53:20):
rodents of an unusual size.
Take care.
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