July 9, 2025 • 52 mins
What if your entire life was a television show? The very thought sends chills down your spine, doesn't it? That's the premise that captivated audiences in 1998 with The Truman Show, and continues to resonate powerfully today. This groundbreaking film arrived during a fascinating moment in American culture—the pre-9/11 twilight of the 90s that gave rise to similarly existential works like The Matrix, Fight Club, and Dark City.
My conversation with writer and podcaster Derek McDuff explores how this Jim Carrey vehicle transcended its star's comedic reputation to deliver what Derek calls "baby's first existential crisis." We unpack the film's remarkable prescience in predicting reality television, social media culture, and our society's obsession with authenticity. The meticulously crafted world of Seahaven—an amalgamation of different American eras designed to evoke an idealized but ultimately artificial "American Dream"—serves as perfect metaphor for the comfortable lies we sometimes choose over difficult truths.
One of the most striking aspects of our discussion centers on The Truman Show's religious dimensions. Ed Harris's Christof functions unmistakably as a god figure, controlling his creation from a literal position in the heavens. When Truman ultimately chooses to leave his artificial paradise for the uncertainties of the real world, the film makes a profound statement about human agency and free will. That iconic final scene—where Truman ascends a staircase to the sky and exits his dome—still delivers emotional catharsis decades later.
Whether you're revisiting this classic or discovering it for the first time, our exploration illuminates why The Truman Show maintains its cultural relevance. In an era where we voluntarily broadcast our lives through social media and reality television increasingly blurs the line between authentic and manufactured experiences, Truman's journey from blissful ignorance to conscious liberation feels more meaningful than ever. Join us as we examine how this seemingly simple premise evolved into one of cinema's most thought-provoking meditations on reality, authenticity, and what it truly means to be free.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good morning, morning , good morning, oh, and in case
I don't see you, good afternoon,good evening and good night.
I talked to somebody at workyesterday about this movie and
they were like, yeah, I kind ofdon't want to watch that movie
because I would feel like Iwould be really paranoid
watching it.
There was a lot of movies thatcame out around this time that
deal with these concepts of like.
(00:20):
You've got to question thingsaround you.
Especially in the USs, peoplewere looking at their own lives.
There's got to be more to theworld than just this kind of
like day in, day out, like I'mgoing to my job type thing hey
folks, welcome back to the filmnuts podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I'm your host, storyteller and filmmaker,
taylor d adams.
Thank you so much for joiningme today, so this episode should
be a lot of fun.
I say that about all theepisodes, but I really truly
feel that way about what iscoming today.
To start things off, I don'tknow about you, but I've never,
really ever once, wondered if mylife is real or not.
(01:03):
It's kind of a strange thing tosay, but I honestly don't know
why I would ever think that if Idid, I feel like things would
have to be a little too perfect,a little too neat, a little too
tidy and a little too smiley.
(01:26):
The Truman Show starring JimCarrey is about a man whose
seemingly idyllic suburban lifeis in fact a reality show
watched by millions all over theworld, and the title character
of Truman has no idea.
That is until the scenes startto show a little bit.
The Truman Show has such anadult vibe, for lack of a better
(01:46):
term.
It explores themes ofexistentialism and purpose, but
it wraps it all up in this kindof packaging that really makes
an impression on those firstlearning about what the world is
.
This was the feeling my guesttoday had.
Derek McDuff is a podcaster andwriter who cites the Truman
(02:08):
Show as basically baby's firstexistential crisis.
Derek is a lover and student offilm and television, so for
this film to be ranked one ofhis most loved, that comes with
high, high praise, derek.
And I talk about the film'sscience fiction roots, cheesy
product placement and is there aGod?
(02:29):
So one ticket to Fiji, please.
Here's Derek McDuff talkingabout the Truman Show on the
Film Nuts podcast.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Things are going swimmingly.
You know still plugging away atthe podcast, having a good time
with that writing when I get achance.
So no complaints.
And it's summer movie time, soI'm getting to go see.
A lot of good movies are comingout.
What are you?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
most excited about.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
I think probably Jurassic World, really know,
because I love that.
I love that, I love theJurassic Park movies and even
when they're bad which they are,you know, at least every other
one I feel like they're stillfun, you know, and when they're
good, they're great.
So you know.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Okay, I respect that I um, I don't know if I'm gonna
go down that rabbit hole thissummer, but, uh, if, if, if I
hear from you it's a good time,I will go check it out and and
no more chris pratt.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
They've got scarlett johansson and rupert friend in
there, so I'm excited yeah,different lineup uh that should
definitely be interesting.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yeah, uh, you, you mentioned the podcast.
Uh, underrated movie podcast isthe one that I was on, which I
greatly appreciate you uhallowing me to talk about
hercules for a little while, um,but I know that's not the only
podcast you're doing.
Yeah, what else are you workingon?
Speaker 1 (03:59):
I do.
I do a few, yeah, so underratedPodcast, like you said, is the
main one.
But I also do another podcastwith my friend Damien called the
Midnight Film Society andthat's more like oh, summer,
movies are coming out, we'retalking about the new releases
and stuff like that.
I also have a Patreon where Ido a bonus podcast called Across
(04:22):
the Second Dimension, where Ilook at movies that were
released in 3D and talk aboutthem and see how they hold up in
2d.
I just did an episode oncaptain eo.
That was a ton of fun wow so, uh, that was I, that was every
year I on the patreon.
I like what?
What kind of weird stuff can Italk about?
That won't be last a wholepodcast, but I can do for for a
while.
I forgot one more podcast toinfinity stones, dragon bones,
(04:43):
where I talk about marvel stuff,because I just had an episode
on thunderbolts which just cameout.
Uh, that one's infrequentwhenever there's a new marvel
thing.
So, yeah, they're, I'm doing.
I got a you know a lot ofthings in the fire right now
that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
So how?
Okay, it's clear your life,your work.
Movies are just everywhere.
Um, how did you first get thispassionate about movies?
Speaker 1 (05:06):
you know I've I've always just been, you know, a
big fan of movies.
I've loved watching them as akid.
Um, you know, my, my parentswould always put on like raiders
of the lost ark or star wars,or you know, jurassic park was
one of the first movies I thinkI ever saw in a theater.
You know I was like three whenit came out and just, you know,
it know, it was always like theyweren't like big, you know,
(05:28):
movie snob people we weren'twatching, like, you know,
necessarily like these, likeauteur movies, like I didn't
watch like Brief Encounter orsomething as a kid, but I
watched a lot of these kind oflike iconic movies.
You know Princess Bride, thesecultural touchstones, and I just
love movies and you know Iwould go to.
I worked at a movie theater whenI was a teenager.
(05:49):
That was like my first job inhigh school and college and you
know I wanted to be an actor fora while.
I really wanted to be in moviesfor a minute and I, you know,
studied acting for a couplesemesters before I switched over
to be an English major to focusmore on the writing side and as
it went along, you know I so Iwas a writer and I loved movies
(06:11):
and then eventually just startedkind of like writing about
movies.
And then that became whenpodcasting became a thing.
I was like, well, let me starttalking about movies.
And yeah, so it's always been apassion in my life and over the
years, you know, I dideventually go back and watch
Brief Encounter and get morefilm knowledge and stuff like
that and watch all these kind oflike classic films.
(06:33):
You know and I always try to,you know, stay as knowledgeable
as I can about movies and youknow, with my English background
I might not have as much of atechnical side of movies movies
from my education but I try tomake up for that by reading
stuff like in the blink of aneye by walter murch or
adventures in the screen tradeby william goldman all these
great books on film so I mean,yeah, movies around you.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
From an early age I had a similar kind of experience
with jurassic park, like it'sone of the.
It's actually a funny story,like I I think I was when did it
was like 94 93 uh, 93 the first.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Okay, yeah, so I was.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I was six and I, you know, as a six-year-old, I
fucking love dinosaurs, and so Ireally, I really wanted to see
this movie, and my, my mom, mystepdad, knew that I wanted to
see it.
So they decided that we'regonna go see it to see if, like
it goes, it was PG-13 orwhatever.
So they're like to see if a sixyear old can handle it, or
whatever.
And they went and they enjoyedit.
(07:34):
But they said at one point itgot so scary that the woman
sitting next to my stepdad, likeinvoluntarily, like dug her
nails into his arm, like, and sothey're like, ok, we're going
to wait a couple of years.
I was like so, anyway, got tosee it later.
It was great.
Um, so what?
I mean, you were exposed to allthese just basically like fun,
(07:55):
like pop culture movies, likethis movie is out, going to go
see it.
So what was it about thesethings that made you think, oh,
I really want to pursue a careeraround this, this around this
culture, around movies andtelevision and what have you?
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yeah, I think it was just something where, you know,
I I just kind of got soengrossed in it and the
storytelling, like it's justsuch a.
You know it's a relativelyyoung medium.
You know, like you had novelsand plays and things like that
around for you know, thousandsof years, uh, and movies have
been around for over 100 years,like two, like just under 200
(08:35):
years.
You know, like movies have beena medium and I think that we
are now kind of really startingto figure out like how do we
like tell these stories in areally interesting way?
You know, with my background in, you know, when I studied
acting it was mostly in theater,so I came at it from that point
(08:56):
of view.
But I was like you can do somuch more interesting stuff by
like you know the way you placeyour camera and things like that
.
And I was really and you knowjust you can place your camera
and things like that.
And I was really and you knowjust you can tell these unique,
interesting stories through filmand TV that you wouldn't be
able to necessarily tell throughanother medium, and I and you
could just throw on a movie.
(09:16):
I, just as much as I'm a hugereader, I love to just like
watch a movie and just getcompletely taken into that world
.
Go on this, and whether it'slike a crazy sci-fi thing that
you would never be able to see,or if it's just like, hey, this
is like a slice of life, this islike a very realistic quote
unquote story, I'm always reallyinvested and I wanted to like
(09:38):
analyze that and look at it froman angle where I could really
understand why these people aretelling these stories and what
kind of stories they're tryingto tell.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
That's great.
So, with all that, why did youwant to talk about the Truman
Show today?
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Yeah, truman Show is actually one that I, you know, I
did grow up with, and so it's amovie that I had my whole life
and it's it's a movie that itwasn't one of my first, I think,
introductions to existentialismlike, like, and because there
was a lot of movies that cameout around this time in the like
(10:18):
, the last two or three years ofthe 90s, that deal with these
concepts of like, what, if like,everything around you like, is
you got to question thingsaround you, what is the meaning
of the world?
Like, what is this thing youknow?
So, obviously you have this.
You have and movies that youwouldn't necessarily, at first
blush, pair with this but Ithink are actually very similar
(10:39):
stuff, like the matrix or fightclub or dark city.
You know they all come out in98, 99, and they're all part of
this trend of we're at the 90,we're at the end of the 90s,
it's before 9-11 has happened,the Cold War has been over for a
few years.
So I think that especially theUS was very introspective.
(11:02):
People were looking at theirown lives, at existing, and all
those you know movies to somedegree are about existing in
this kind of suburban world,this very like, and you know,
obviously this movie is all,it's all crafted, you know, it's
all done for Truman and lookingat the world and being like, is
(11:23):
this the real life that I have?
Like, is this real, like, isthis just, you know, not
literally, I'm not saying, youknow, like, oh, like, I actually
believe I'm in the Truman Show,but, like you know, there's got
to be more to the world thanjust this kind of like day in,
day out, like I'm going to myjob, type thing.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
The people on the elevator.
There was no backing on it.
I looked out, there was peoplethere and on the radio on the
way to work starts following mealong talking about everything
that I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
You know what I mean.
Now, Truman, look, this is oneof your fantasies.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
I think this is about my dad, your dad.
I think he's alive.
Yeah, I'll tell you about itlater.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
I just really really love this movie.
I I'll tell you about it laterI just really really love this
movie.
I think it's one that you knowit's not like it's gone away
necessarily, but I don't thinkit's as popular as it was.
But I think that the wholeTruman Show phenomenon that
happened, where people, like Isaid in middle school I was like
, am I on the Truman Show?
(12:21):
Like that's not an uncommonthing.
I talked to somebody at workyesterday about this movie and
they were like yeah, I, uh, Ikind of don't want to watch that
movie because I would feel likeI would be really paranoid
watching it.
And I I think it really thatpart of the movie you're like
really hit on something likedeep in our psychology, of just
like, like, and I think part ofit's like everybody kind of like
like marlin says like wants tobe the main character, but part
(12:43):
of it is just like man therethere is just like something off
and like I gotta figure outwhat it is, and so I think that
this movie really does get tothe core of a lot of people's.
You know, not psychoses, butjust kind of like their way of
thinking.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Okay so take me back to do you remember the first
time you saw the truman show?
Speaker 1 (13:05):
I was trying to think about like the very first time,
because I think this I I don'tremember it exactly, but I
remember watching it at a veryyoung age because the movie
comes out.
I'm like eight years old and Idon't think I saw it in theaters
, but I know my mom really likedit and you know, this is to me
a time when I'm like, oh, likejim carrey is like the funny
(13:27):
goofy guy like he's the guy whodoes all the voices, you know
he's.
He's like mocking batman withhis butt, like he's doing all
this stuff, you know, and so andhe's there's still, like he's
still jim carrey, but he's muchmore toned down in this movie
and between this and anothermovie we've covered, eternal
sunshine, which I saw when I waslike a teenager.
(13:49):
I really came to appreciate hima lot more as an actor and I
remember, yeah, just being ayoung kid being like, wow, this
is like an absolute trip.
You know, I think I was maybelike 10 or 12 when I eventually
did see it and thinking about,like, like you know, it was kind
of like baby's firstexistentialism like you know,
like this is like it wasintroducing me to all these
(14:09):
concepts at a young age, aboutthinking about the world through
a a much different lens.
Um, and yeah, just I rememberyou know my mom loving it, my
dad liking and I was really justvery engrossed watching it on
my, you know, you know fullscreen like tube tv.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
I know sometimes it's hard to like kind of revert
back in our heads about likewhat were we, like, you know, at
this certain age?
But you're, you know you hadfamily, appreciate it, you were,
you were thinking it was a trip, like was there, was there, so
what was it about it that madeyou like appreciate it for what
it was?
Because, yeah, like you said,it's not classic Jim Carrey,
(14:53):
this is a very it's a very adultmovie when, regarding themes,
but for some reason, like as Imean, I think I saw it when I
was like maybe like 13 orsomething and so like it really
took a hold of me.
So what do you think it isabout?
This?
Such like existential conceptcan even connect with someone
who's like prepubescent or earlyteenage years.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah, I think I definitely saw it at like the
right time.
You know, like I'm 10 or 12 orwhatever, so that's like right
at the time when you're likestart to really become you know,
become for lack of a betterword a person.
I'm not just like, hey, I likethis movie because dinosaurs.
I'm like oh, there's some deeperthings going on here.
And, yeah, this movie if I wasyounger there would probably not
be a lot for me other thanmaybe some jokes and stuff, but
(15:38):
there was some really deep stuffthat I was kind of like, huh,
that's very interesting.
And I was kind of like, huh,that's very interesting.
And the scene that I was, evenfrom a young age, always stuck
with me is the scene where he'stalking to the guy playing
Marlin, his best friend.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
The point is, I would gladly step in front of traffic
for you, Truman, and the lastthing I'd ever do is lie to you,
and the last thing that I wouldever do is why do you?
Speaker 1 (16:14):
I mean, think about it for a minute, if everybody is
in on it I'd have to be in onit too and it's such such a
heartbreaking scene and he'sgiving such a great performance
and you're like, okay, well, youwant to believe him.
The same time you're cutting andthis is the first time this
really happens in the filmyou're cutting to Kristoff, just
like in his ear, which I don'tknow how he's talking to him.
(16:35):
That's a whole other thing, buthe's like telling him exactly,
he's like feeding him his linesand it's just such a betrayal
that I was just like remember asa kid being like, wow, this
moment, which should be thisbeautiful moment between the two
of them and it's about it notbeing fabricated is completely
(16:58):
fabricated and that really had abig impact on me.
And I just remember reallybeing interested by you know,
the whole themes and the acting,and like there was a while when
you know, as a kid, as like ayoung teen, I was just like,
well, what if I'm on the TrumanShow?
Like what if?
(17:19):
Like that's a thing you know,like because, like you know, you
watch that movie.
You're like you never know theycould do it.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Yeah, like the whole.
We can't question thetechnology of how this was made
because there's a lot going onand I'm like where is the camera
?
Is it a?
Speaker 1 (17:38):
button Like what.
It's either the most obviousthing ever where he's like
there's like a neighbor holdingthe trash can, or it's just like
whatever like, yeah, just gowith it.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah, we quite question it, and I think that's
what's really fascinating aboutthis film too.
Is that, um, it's, it'ssimultaneously showing us a
fictional story about Truman,but it's it's also a movie about
the fictional story of Truman.
So there are these like metalevels that are interesting to
(18:08):
poke at, um, but you can'tquestion too much of like where
is, where is the line betweenthe two?
I think, um, but yeah, yeah,that scene you were talking
about with, uh, his friendmarlin, is, yeah, it's a
heartbreaking scene and it wasfascinating, is like for me at
least.
I'm watching this scene.
This was, I think I'd only Ire-watched it, obviously for our
(18:30):
chat, but I think it was onlythe second time I'd seen it.
I hadn't seen it in a very longtime.
So I was watching this and Iwas like, I mean, I know how it
ends.
Yeah, it's, it's, it's aniconic ending as well, visually,
so we're aware of it.
But I'm thinking and I'mwatching marlin say all these
things, even though they'rechristoph's words, and I'm
believing him, even though Iknow it's not real.
(18:53):
And so a part of me is likewhat if, like, the guy that's
playing marlin actually doesfeel this way, like where is,
like, how blurred is the linebetween truth and reality?
And I think one thing that justkind of one thing that breaks
it is actually, uh, the propthat marlin always has with him
(19:18):
is beer.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
He always has a six pack of beer, or at least a can
of beer, but the productplacement in this film, of these
fictional things, uh, really isfunny yes, it's, it's very and
like this movie feels like itpredicts a lot of things like
from like the product placementin this, where there's, just
(19:41):
because you know it's, it'sreally, it's like a clever word,
like, well, how would you havethe show without you know any
commercials?
Like well, product placement.
And now I always said that wasthe thing before this movie
comes out, but it's become soprevalent now where it's like
you watch a transformers movieand like a mountain dew vending
machine gets turned into a thingyou know, uh, but it also think
with reality tv, like the how,like reality tv was not really
(20:03):
that a thing, like I guess therewas like maybe the real world
comes out like the year beforeyeah and I think, okay, yeah,
survivor hadn't come out justyet, but it was like the next
year it was close so, yeah, thisis our kind of like predicting.
So you watch it now you're like,wow, they really did know it
was coming and I I love that.
You know, talk about marlin, um, you know who's played by Noah
(20:24):
Emmerich, who is great, likehe's always like the best friend
and stuff, but he's reallyfantastic and I think he's so
like the way he does his likebeers and his product.
He just kind of like is likeTruman, that is a beer, like
he's.
It's funny because I think he'splaying a good actor who is
able to naturally work inproduct placement.
(20:45):
And then Laura Linney, who is agood actor, is playing a bad
actor.
So the character Hannah who'splaying Meryl, she's not good.
Hi, honey.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Look what I got for you at the checkout.
It's a chef's pal, it's a dicergrater peeler all in one.
Never need sharpening,dishwasher safe.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Wow, that's amazing and it's funny because it like
it totally shows you like thequote, unquote right way to do
product placement and the waythat it just like breaks the
immersion, um, and so I thinkthat was really good because
apparently laura linney likelike studied like sears catalogs
and stuff from like the 1950sthat performance, yeah, yeah and
(21:35):
then, and then you know, goingback to noah emmerich, like he
apparently, um, it's a, he doeslike a bunch of stuff that's
like not even hinted at in themovie where he was like for it's
like, yeah, for my character,like he was, he said he was like
an alcoholic or recoveringalcoholic because he got really
jealous of truman and he's likethis.
So he, you know, he knows thewhole thing.
He's like I kind of wanted itto be the merrill show but it
(21:57):
never was going to be.
Like he wrote that into hischaracter and I think that's
that is the sign of really goodacting is where you put all this
stuff.
That's not even that's not onthe page, that's not gonna show
up on the screen, but it'simportant to your performance
and I think that all theperformances in this really come
across well yeah, so that'sinteresting you said that about
um laura lenny studying like 50sseries catalogs.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Because the aesthetic in this film is so strange,
because it's part like 1950s,early 60s, suburb, like like
culture, but the cars are likestill kind of 90s and the attire
(22:38):
for a lot of people likethere's a lot of plaid in this
film, like there's a lot ofreally bright colors that I I
don't think I've seen in anykind of movie or catalog before,
and so it's this really strangestructure I thought of like
these different historicalaesthetics just kind of blending
together and I don't know ifI'm reading too much into that.
But I couldn't really placelike why they chose.
(23:00):
Like it seemed like they werechoosing styles from three
different decades over thecourse of maybe half a century
and trying to fit them into oneanother and I wasn't really sure
how to read that.
But like I was just struck bythis film is gorgeous and but
none of it makes sense to me,like nothing was fitting
together yeah, it's interestingbecause I was thinking about two
(23:22):
in a similar vein.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Like I was like where is this sea haven supposed to
be?
like obviously we know it's in,actually in la like behind the
hollywood sign, but, like, whereis like in the fictional
reality of truman's world?
Where does he think he does hethink he's in may because, like
you see a license plate, at onetime point it just says sea
haven, and so, and I think that,in terms of like the time
(23:46):
period that it's emulating andthe fact that it's like supposed
to be kind of like whatever sayI think it's supposed to be,
that whole thing is like.
It is this kind of likeamalgamation of just different
idealized quote-unquote americandreams, and to the point where,
apparently, when they were likescouting the location, they
were like having a really toughtime finding it and, um, they
(24:10):
were going to build it on asoundstage at universal studios,
but then eventually they found,like, this master plan place in
florida, and I feel like thewhole combination of like what
state is this?
What time period is this?
It speaks to what christoph issaying at the end when he's
talking to truman and he's likeI have created this kind of like
(24:31):
perfect world.
This amalgamation of like thisis kind of this norman,
rockwell-esque like elements,all these idealized things, this
what we think of as america,you know it's.
It's like what, when people saymaking america great, this is
what they picture, an americathat never actually existed.
It's this fictionalized idyllicworld and like all those other
(24:56):
movies I mentioned, where it'slike the matrix or, you know,
dark city, this, this fictionalworld that's been created for
these people, this fictionalworld that's been created for
these people, things are notquite right.
You're starting to realize thatit's wrong and, over the course
of the movie, truman realizeslike no, this is messed up, this
is fucked up.
What's happening to me?
I need to break out and get tothe real world, and I love that.
(25:18):
At the end, you know, kristoff,is like stay here, I've created
this kind of quote unquoteperfect world.
The real world is the one thatsucks.
You know, chris Hoffman's likestay here, I've created this
kind of quote-unquote perfectworld.
The real world is the one thatsucks.
You know, like, this is whereyou should stay.
I was watching when you wereborn.
I was watching when you tookyour first step.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I watched you on your first day of school.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
The episode when you lost your first tooth.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
You can't leave, Truman.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Please, gus, you belong here, you can do it With
me and I love we never get tosee Trumanuman out in the real
world, like running around,being like, oh here's this, here
here's, you know, like a street, like you know.
You don't have that scene thatyou would have in a lot of other
movies, it's just he justleaves and he's out in the real
(26:15):
world and leaving behind thisfake amalgamation of what we
think the world should look like.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
So, from a metaphorical standpoint or
allegorical, however you want tophrase it, what is Kristoff in
this movie?
Speaker 1 (26:34):
I think Kristoff is God.
I think because he's like.
There's even that beat at theend when he says Truman, I am
the creator of a television show.
Like he leaves an intentionalpause.
Yeah, there's that pause thereand so he's kind of like always
looking down on truman, likeliterally, like he's in his like
(26:55):
little thing in the sky andhe's cultivated and created this
whole person's life and he he'scontrolling it and he's put
he's literally like putting thefear of God in him like you can
never escape.
You've got to stay in, I think,and and I love that he's.
You know, it's, it's kind ofthis, it's it's it's really
great, because I feel like themovie with Kristoff and Truman
(27:18):
is kind of giving you this wholething about like is there free
will, will, right?
Because Kristoff is kind oflike, yeah, he could leave
anytime he wants to if he reallywanted to.
At the same time, he is doingeverything in his power to make
sure that that never happens, tothe point where he almost kills
him when he is about ready toleave.
Give me some light again.
(27:39):
Get him again god's sake, chris.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
The whole world is watching.
We can't let him die in frontof a live audience.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
He was born in front of a live audience so I think
that Kristoff is kind of thisstand-in for God or the universe
or whatever being this, or thenon-existence of free will,
fighting against you and, likeyou know, get against this.
You know, old Testament stylevengeful God and escape.
So I think Kristoff is reallyinteresting and Ed Harris's
(28:33):
performance is fantastic.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Are you someone who subscribes to the idea of a God
or a universal rule, or what areyour thoughts on free will?
This is a deep question.
Yeah, right, yeah, subscribesto the idea of a god or a
universal rule, or what are yourthoughts on free will?
These are the deep questions.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah right, yeah.
So I I was definitely likeraised religious, like casually
religious though, like I'm likebecause, like my parents, like
my mom was raised mormon and mydad was like ray, like born in
like the south, so both fromvery religious upbringings, and
so I felt like they were kind oflike well, we gotta impart this
on to our kids, so we'll go tochurch sometimes, you know.
(29:10):
So it was like and it wasalways think of, uh, when I
think of how religious was, Ithink of that scene in 40 old
virgin, when kat dennings getsin trouble and her mom's like
we're going back to church, likethat's about the level of
religion that I grew up with andI've always kind of I stopped.
That stuff has always stuckwith me.
But I don't necessarily believein like a dude in the clouds,
(29:35):
like watch walking down andbeing like all right dude.
But I believe there's somethingout there, right?
I believe there's some kind ofhigher power, there's some kind
of you know, I don't want tocall it destiny or whatever, but
that there's, you know there's.
There's some kind of you know,not necessarily order, but some
kind of like something in theuniverse that keeps it going and
(29:58):
I people.
Some people might call that god.
People like other religionsmight interpret it a different
way.
I think that we all kind oflook at it through a different
lens, but ultimately I'd say I'mkind of agnostic, I'm like I
don't know.
Seems like there's somethingout there, but maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe people who think there'snothing out there are right,
(30:18):
could be, maybe somebody who hasa completely different idea is
right, you know.
So, um, yeah, and ultimately andit comes to free will, I think
I think we do have free will,but I think that it's something
where it's like you can maybepredict, um, what someone's
gonna do, what's like whatthings are gonna happen, but I
(30:38):
don't think that necessarily umtakes away from free will.
Uh, and to kind of talk aboutanother show that you know, uh,
we, that we talked about maybedoing, but we didn't like,
there's this whole fifth seasonof lost, where that involves
time travel in a reallyinteresting way.
That, I think, asks you isthere free will or is it
predetermined?
And I think, um, you know, youcan kind of maybe do both,
(31:02):
although that soundscontradictory.
That's kind of what I.
You can kind of maybe do both,although that sounds
contradictory.
That's kind of what I believe.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
What kind of were you inspired at all by this film?
Kind of from the filmmakingstandpoint or a film analysis
standpoint?
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Yeah, I would say I was definitely inspired because,
you know, this movie has somany interesting and deep themes
and I was like I really want toanalyze this.
And that's one of the reasonswhen, you know, when we were
talking about, like, what wouldyou like to talk about?
You know, it's always been oneof my favorite films, you know
from right when I saw it, andit's one that I've never gotten
(31:34):
a chance to talk about before.
You know, like I've I'veguessed it on a ton of podcasts.
Obviously I have a few of myown and I've never gotten a
chance to talk about the TrumanShow or, you know, analyze it in
any in-depth way.
And so I was like, well, thiswould be a really good shot.
I was definitely reallyinspired and so it also, I think
(31:54):
, does a lot of smart stuff.
Like it inspired me from like awriting perspective, where,
looking at the script processfor this and you know, obviously
peter weir is, you know, veryinvolved in how this comes
together.
He's the director, but hedidn't write the script, um,
andrew nickel wrote the scriptand looking at the development
of it, how it starts, is likekind of a very more sci-fi s
(32:16):
script, and he has went throughlike dozens and dozens of drafts
to get to where it was todayand I think that the sci-fi
stuff is really cool.
Like you know, that would havebeen interesting.
Like you get something similarwith dark city, but you it also.
I think is it a really goodexercise in how can you take
(32:36):
this kind of big existential onhis face, something that should
be a sci-fi concept, and more orless ground it in reality and
give you those same existentialthemes and these themes of like
god and like free will anddestiny and you know your life
being all a simulation and haveit be grounded in 1998, los
(32:59):
angeles yeah, like that's.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
That's always interesting to me is films that
like present certain like sci-fitropes or like there's like
elements of all these things.
But the movie itself keepsitself very grounded and like
very approachable for a lot ofreasons, and I think one of the
reasons actually like castingjim carrey, like he's just like
he's at this point a goofball,like he's almost everyone's
(33:25):
favorite goofball to watch on tvand then film, and I think it
is a lot.
He has a lot of work trying tolike be silly.
But also it does come across tome as like a veneer of almost
like how someone, of almost likehow someone should act when
(33:47):
they have all these things thatwe're supposed to want.
Like going back to like thisanalysis of like the Amer, this
metaphor of the American dream,or whatever, like it's a little
over the top.
He's like waving to hisneighbors every morning and
saying the exact same thing andsmiling really widely, going
through the exact same motions,and we're supposed to feel like
this is what we want.
And then very quickly we'reintroduced to the fact that he's
(34:08):
like he's actually secretlylooking for something else and
he's not even sure exactly whatthat is.
And even early on in this film.
When the light drops, when thelight drops from, however high
up that uh, uh, that light gridis, um, if we had no idea what
this movie was when we firststarted watching it, that would,
(34:30):
that would immediately clue usin to what is this?
Yeah, and I feel like thatlends itself to those science
fiction type things, thosefantasy type things.
Um, so if you were Truman, howlong do you think it would take
you to figure out what's going?
Speaker 1 (34:47):
on.
Ok, that's, that's.
That's a really good question,right?
Because, yeah, like Truman,like they say, this is like
season 30.
So I guess that's implied thatTruman's 30 years old, you know.
I don't know, like I'm, like Iwould, I feel like maybe I would
figure it out when I was like ateenager, a teenager, and I was
like starting to get more likeaware of the world.
(35:09):
But you know, like it's easy tosay that you know, because and
I love that they do like kind of, like, you know, say that they
are doing things to keep Trumanfrom figuring this stuff out and
to like artificially keep himon this island, like they have
the whole thing where they, you,you know, kill off his dad to
make him afraid of water andbecause they're like, yeah, he's
naturally curious, he wanted togo explore.
(35:30):
And that's how I am too, like Iwant to go, like explore the
world and find out theseinteresting things.
Um, so I don't know, I I don'tknow if you ever saw like the
joe schmoe show, or or a morerecent example would be jury
duty, where they have a juryduty, yeah, jury duty, which is
incredible, yeah, and it's.
You know, those are both likethese fake reality shows where
(35:50):
there's like one contestant onthem who is actually the only
contestant, and it's like thetruman show, but for like a
reality show, and they're justkind of like realizing so and
like in seat um, the reason thatboth those shows work is
because they both both of thembasically get like the most
kind-hearted, just kind of likereally good, like guy who also
(36:10):
is just like kind of like, kindof a little bit of a doofus, you
know, like in the best possibleway and the reason that they in
like when they did a second.
This is like back in the early2000s when they did a second
season of joe schmo show.
One of the reasons it didn'twork is because, um, one of the
contestants figured out she waslike this is weird, things are
(36:32):
happening on this show thatdon't make any sense, and she
figured out it was like a fakereality show.
So I like to think that I wouldbe in the same vein and kind of
figure it out a little bitquicker yeah, that's what I was
thinking too is like, okay, yeah, how long would it take me?
Speaker 2 (36:46):
and I honestly have no idea.
But like from the, from themovie's point of view, like we
are shown something is wrongfrom like just something going
from, something going wrong likeout of their control, yeah,
like the light falling, likethat's a physical thing, that's
like where the hell did thatcome from?
And if he's like what does heknow what that exactly is?
(37:06):
And they have like the radioexplaining him it came from a
plane or whatever fuck.
And then then we have our, ourflashback scene with the, the
woman he's truly attracted to inhigh school and truly
interested in, and she's justacting strange to him would you
want?
to maybe possibly sometime goout for some pizza or something
(37:29):
like Friday.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Saturday, sunday, monday, tuesday.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
We have finals tomorrow.
Yeah, I know, if we don't gonow it won't happen.
Do you understand?
So what do you want to do Likeit doesn't feel?
To me, what felt more real wasthe light falling from the sky
than her acting the way she did,because people can behave in
(38:01):
strange ways, but if we see anactual, like physical thing,
that's way out of place.
I feel like that would start toquestion some things, and I
don't know if truman justdoesn't know anything about
planes, that they don't havethese like these stage lights
attached to them or not.
But yeah, I thought that waslike kind of.
it was like that was the firstbreadcrumb like the movie's,
(38:22):
very careful but like okay, thisis the first breadcrumb of uh
him and you as an audiencefiguring out that like something
else is, is going on here well,I, I like that you brought up
sylvia.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
You know the kind of other love interests of his
because, uh, and one of us islike, okay, like he, you know he
he's kind of like had thisbrief romance with this, this
girl, but also I feel like shekind of represents this freedom
where everything else around himis so controlled, and like he
is set on this path and he doesthis thing where you know the
(38:52):
point where his wife ispreselected for him, like, and
he doesn't even like, reallylike her, like it's clear he
doesn't like his wife and he'sjust like and he says to her
like you don't even like meeither.
Like what is happening, you knowwhy do like and he says they're
like you don't even like meeither.
Like what is happening, youknow why do you have a want to
have a baby with me?
You hate me and you know, liketo the point where his mom, his
best friend, in that scene wealready talked about, like the
ultimate, like everything aroundhim is so fake and then for one
(39:15):
night he gets a glimpse ofsomeone and something real and
then he, like hyper, fixates onthat for the next like 15 years
or whatever, and obviouslythere's the other things that
kick this into motion.
But like I think that he'salways kind of had doubt because
of that night and because foronce in his entire life
(39:37):
something was real, and to thepoint where I love that when you
know the guy, the other extrakind of like rolls up on the
beach in the car and like dragsher off.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
He's going to lie to you what's going on.
I really would like to knowwhat's going on.
She has episodes.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
We tried everything, hypothism, everything.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Don't listen to him, truman Don't worry, don't worry,
you're not the first.
You're not the first Truman.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
She here.
What's he saying?
Truman?
He's lying.
Get out of here, come on, don'tworry, we're going to school,
we're moving to fiji, like youknow.
He just kind of says we'regoing to fiji.
You know, he just like throwsit out because he's improvising,
right, uh, and?
And truman like hyper, like itwas just some random thing he
said, and he's like want to goto f, to Fiji, let's go to.
And so I think that Fijibecomes this thing of like, fiji
(40:31):
and Sylvia become this thing oflike I can get out.
There is this other world,beyond, something that I'm
seeing and that leads to somereally great scenes where he
tries to leave and the busbreaks down and nobody can drive
it, or like he goes.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
The driver looks so confused.
Right Anytime he he has tooperate a vehicle, it's so good.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
And then I think one of my favorite things is to when
he goes to the travel agencyand like all of the posters on
the walls are like you're goingto die, like the best, like the
lightning strike hitting theplane is like it could happen to
you.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
I know god is so funny, um, yeah, so, speaking of
which, I mean we've talkedabout plenty of scenes and
moments like do you have asingle favorite scene or moment
from this film?
Speaker 1 (41:15):
I, I think.
So those are all great.
I think the best scene is thelast scene, right, because you
know it's it's.
You know that scene scene priorto it is he's like out in the
waves.
You know he's literally andfiguratively crossing the
threshold and getting throughthis like insane storm that
(41:36):
Kristoff, slash, god or whateverhas created for him to get
through.
And then finally that breaksand he's like free.
And then the boat just like hitsthe wall, it crashes through
and Truman's like what is this,you know, and the music, just
the swelling music, just cutsout and you see him kind of like
(42:00):
look and see, like the world,like the end of the world as far
as he's concerned.
He's like like what is this?
And he's trying to like breakout.
The music comes back in andthen you have that whole
exchange with him and christophwhere he's taught.
He's like looking up in theclouds and like that's once
again.
It's like you cannot ignore themetaphors there and he's like
speaking to this voice that iscoming down to him and he just
(42:24):
chooses to leave.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
In case I don't see you Good afternoon, good evening
and good night.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Yeah, he like what.
He doesn't know what's outthere in the real world.
He's only lived his entire30-year existence in this
cultivated reality and hechooses to step out.
And you know, you're as, you'regetting that, you're also
getting everybody who's swept upin this, everybody who's
watching it, and I think thisgoes back to what we were
(43:04):
talking about before, like thepower of tv or film.
You know, these people are soengaged with truman's life, they
love his story.
There's that whole bar.
Uh, there's the japanese familywhich, by the way, I love, that
like chosen from the karate kid2 is.
Yes, I was like that's chosen.
Yeah, I was like hold on.
But you know, and there's theguy in the tub.
(43:27):
There's like the you know theparking garage guys, and it's
this beautiful sweeping sceneand he like, literally like kind
of climbs the stairs in the skyand gets out, and then Sylvia
runs down and it's like, likeyou know, they're going to
there's implied they're going tofind each other, and then it
just ends like what else implied?
Speaker 2 (43:44):
they're gonna find each other, and then it just is
like what else is on?
Speaker 1 (43:46):
yeah, let's do what else, and then the movie ends.
It's perfect, perfect ending.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
10 out of 10 yeah, I, so I do love this.
That ending scene specificallyfor me like cutting from all the
reactions of the viewers, thefans, like, yeah, you do have
people that are so invested inthis show and then are invested
in Truman that they you knowit's a, it's a parasocial
(44:10):
relationship.
Like they're like, oh, we lovethis guy, like we want him to
succeed no matter what it is,even if, like, the show's over.
And then we have, like the guysin the parking garage that are
like it's something they'rewatching, it's like that's all
of it, like they're enjoyingthemselves, like they're being
very entertained, but when it'sover, they're like, okay, what
is the next thing that we aregoing to participate in?
(44:31):
Um, for you, like you know,lover of, lover of movie and TV
shows and all all other kinds ofpop culture stuff.
Like how, how do you find abalance with what you're
watching to be something you aretruly invested in beyond when
it is over?
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Ooh, that's a good question, because I do think
that, like things should endright, like theories should not
just keep going on to infinity,like you know, to infinity.
And just like you know, at acertain point, the story of this
character or this you knowplace or whatever has to end,
and that is something I thinkabout.
(45:13):
It's like okay, like is this?
Is there like more to thinkabout with this, like you know,
or is this like a containedthing?
And I think that, yeah, yeah,like there's a reason why, you
know, when something like starwars becomes as popular as there
is, you know, this desire tolike, let's keep it going, let's
(45:33):
make all these books, let's doall these different things.
And I and you know, becausepeople are very interested,
people are interested by, like,the lore and the themes and
stuff, and I think sometimesthat can be a little superfluous
.
But sometimes you can also getlike with Star Wars, you can get
Andor, which just wrapped up aswe're recording this and I was
like it's one of the mostincredible TV shows I've ever
seen.
So you know, and that's whilethe story of Star Wars did wrap
(45:57):
up.
You know, we had three moviesand then we had six movies and
nine movies, but it's done atsome point.
You can still take things fromthat and extrapolate it in
interesting ways, like they dowith andor.
This is a story that ties intothat and it gives you a new
perspective on it, but it's alsoits own really interesting
thing yeah, yeah, I don't knowif that made sense or if it
(46:20):
answered your question.
No, it does.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
It does it I, you know I was like, yeah, now I
want to talk about andor.
But I haven't finished.
I haven't watched the lastthree episodes, but the three
before that I was like fuck.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
I've got two left, so , okay, nice, um.
So I'm thinking a lot about thelike, the actors playing actors
in this film and like, what arethey like?
What are they doing when thecamera's not rolling?
Like when they go home, wheredo they go?
Are they going to their homesthat are in the Truman Dome?
(46:53):
Uh, because we have a scenewhere he tries to get on an
elevator and there's like extrasand someone taking a smoke
break like behind the fakeelevator.
So I'm thinking about all thesepeople that are kind of in this
movie and how they, these actorsthat are actors in the movie,
thinking about how they'rebehaving when they're not around
Truman or not focused on kindof a on being on the Truman show
(47:14):
, and it got me thinking aboutjust how we behave when we're on
camera.
And the word authentic isreally overused, but that's kind
of what we're talking abouthere.
Is this authenticity of thepeople that we are witnessing?
Um, as someone who is hosts andis on multiple podcasts, you
give, you know, multiple panels.
(47:35):
Um, is there, is what we'reseeing right now.
Is it the real you?
Speaker 1 (47:40):
That's, that's a good yeah, that's a good cause.
I think you know, as you know,as someone, like I said, I have
a background in acting.
I think that, subconsciously ornot, like you're always kind of
like not playing a part, butthere there's certain things
about yourself like whether it'slike on a podcast or you know
(48:01):
at work or however you want todo it that you're always kind of
presenting, and I don't thinkthat necessarily means it's not
like the real you.
It's just there's parts ofyourself that you're not
necessarily always showing, likeI always think of.
You know, one day at my day jobI was like doing like an
announcement and I was like hey,the store is gonna be closing
and and one of my co-workers waslike oh you, just your podcast
(48:23):
voice, that's your body.
And I was like oh you, justyour podcast voice that's your
body.
I was like, oh, but you know itwas.
It was reminding me ofsomething you were saying
earlier, because obviouslythere's all these actors on the
show.
The one person who isn't anactor is Truman, but he is still
performing in a lot of this.
You know, when he goes into hisjob, when he's around his wife
(48:44):
or anything, and you know, know,different people get different
levels of authenticity.
Probably the most, um,authentic he is around anyone is
with meryl.
He's like the one person who'skind of like really confiding in
um, but I don't think even thenhe's like you know, fully
himself, because you, it's likeyou said, like he's does that,
like hey, like affable, likegood afternoon, good evening,
(49:06):
good night, you know, like thatwhole thing.
But then you know, and he'sdoing his kind of more carry
isms at that point.
But then there's the times whenhe's just kind of like by
himself and he's like rippingout the magazine, he's like
trying to, when he thinks, youknow, in these moments where we
all have, where we're like weare truly alone, we are our
quote-unquote authentic selvesthat nobody in the world might
(49:28):
ever see, maybe our partner ifthat, but he's definitely not.
Truman's not letting hispartner see that.
But he's just his real,authentic self in a moment that
he thinks is just his own.
And that's why I think you know, in the fiction of this, why
people are so invested in trumanis because you do get to see
those moments of him being hisreal self, not putting on a
(49:50):
performance, not doing his hisstick at all.
He's really being his true self.
And I think that people loveauthenticity and you know the
fictional viewers of the trumanshow are really eating that up.
So I think, yeah, this is thereal me, but it's, it's a part
of the real me that's fair.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
That's fair well, derrick.
Thanks so much, man.
This was an absolute blast toto talk about this movie with
you.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
I really, really appreciate it thank you, yeah, I
I had a ton of fun.
I I'm really glad you.
Let me talk about this movie.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
If you're someone who might be thinking that your
life is a lie or that you maybewish your life was a lie, I just
want you to know that thepeople closest to you love you.
Our world can sometimes be safelittle bubbles that are made to
protect us, but it's okay togrow out of them.
(50:49):
But even if you have the desireto move on or out or just grow
beyond it, just know that thelove of those closest to you
will always be real.
A huge thanks to Derek forchatting with me today and a
Hollywood-sign-size Thank you toyou for joining us.
Before you go, please check outat least one of Derek's
(51:11):
podcasts linked in the shownotes.
You could start with underratedmovie podcast.
That's the one I appeared on totalk about Disney's Hercules.
If you enjoyed the show today,please go ahead and subscribe on
your favorite podcast platformchoice to stay up to date on all
of our episodes.
And if you happen to belistening to this on Apple
Podcasts, please leave a ratingand review to help us reach more
(51:31):
awesome folks like yourself,and I produce all of these
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For more information onsupporting the Film Nuts podcast
, as well as how you can getsome cool stuff in return, check
out patreoncom slash film nutsOur theme this season, is
brought to us by J Mac, ourartwork is designed by McDougall
(51:55):
and all episodes of the FilmNuts podcast are produced and
edited by me, taylor D Adams.
If you want to get in touch,you can email film nuts podcast
at gmailcom or follow us.
I know it's a creepy word, butfollow us on Instagram and
TikTok at Film Nuts Podcast, anddon't forget to join the
Nuthouse Discord communityabsolutely free.
It's so much fun to be there.
I'm not just saying that, it'shonestly true.
You can check that out in theshow notes, along with
(52:17):
everything else.
Thank you all again.
So much for joining me todayand, in case I don't see you,
good afternoon, good evening andgood night.
Good morning, morning , good morning, oh, and in case
I don't see you, good afternoon,good evening and good night.
I talked to somebody at workyesterday about this movie and
they were like, yeah, I kind ofdon't want to watch that movie
because I would feel like Iwould be really paranoid
watching it.
There was a lot of movies thatcame out around this time that
deal with these concepts of like.
(00:20):
You've got to question thingsaround you.
Especially in the USs, peoplewere looking at their own lives.
There's got to be more to theworld than just this kind of
like day in, day out, like I'mgoing to my job type thing hey
folks, welcome back to the filmnuts podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I'm your host, storyteller and filmmaker,
taylor d adams.
Thank you so much for joiningme today, so this episode should
be a lot of fun.
I say that about all theepisodes, but I really truly
feel that way about what iscoming today.
To start things off, I don'tknow about you, but I've never,
really ever once, wondered if mylife is real or not.
(01:03):
It's kind of a strange thing tosay, but I honestly don't know
why I would ever think that if Idid, I feel like things would
have to be a little too perfect,a little too neat, a little too
tidy and a little too smiley.
(01:26):
The Truman Show starring JimCarrey is about a man whose
seemingly idyllic suburban lifeis in fact a reality show
watched by millions all over theworld, and the title character
of Truman has no idea.
That is until the scenes startto show a little bit.
The Truman Show has such anadult vibe, for lack of a better
(01:46):
term.
It explores themes ofexistentialism and purpose, but
it wraps it all up in this kindof packaging that really makes
an impression on those firstlearning about what the world is
.
This was the feeling my guesttoday had.
Derek McDuff is a podcaster andwriter who cites the Truman
(02:08):
Show as basically baby's firstexistential crisis.
Derek is a lover and student offilm and television, so for
this film to be ranked one ofhis most loved, that comes with
high, high praise, derek.
And I talk about the film'sscience fiction roots, cheesy
product placement and is there aGod?
(02:29):
So one ticket to Fiji, please.
Here's Derek McDuff talkingabout the Truman Show on the
Film Nuts podcast.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Things are going swimmingly.
You know still plugging away atthe podcast, having a good time
with that writing when I get achance.
So no complaints.
And it's summer movie time, soI'm getting to go see.
A lot of good movies are comingout.
What are you?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
most excited about.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
I think probably Jurassic World, really know,
because I love that.
I love that, I love theJurassic Park movies and even
when they're bad which they are,you know, at least every other
one I feel like they're stillfun, you know, and when they're
good, they're great.
So you know.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Okay, I respect that I um, I don't know if I'm gonna
go down that rabbit hole thissummer, but, uh, if, if, if I
hear from you it's a good time,I will go check it out and and
no more chris pratt.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
They've got scarlett johansson and rupert friend in
there, so I'm excited yeah,different lineup uh that should
definitely be interesting.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yeah, uh, you, you mentioned the podcast.
Uh, underrated movie podcast isthe one that I was on, which I
greatly appreciate you uhallowing me to talk about
hercules for a little while, um,but I know that's not the only
podcast you're doing.
Yeah, what else are you workingon?
Speaker 1 (03:59):
I do.
I do a few, yeah, so underratedPodcast, like you said, is the
main one.
But I also do another podcastwith my friend Damien called the
Midnight Film Society andthat's more like oh, summer,
movies are coming out, we'retalking about the new releases
and stuff like that.
I also have a Patreon where Ido a bonus podcast called Across
(04:22):
the Second Dimension, where Ilook at movies that were
released in 3D and talk aboutthem and see how they hold up in
2d.
I just did an episode oncaptain eo.
That was a ton of fun wow so, uh, that was I, that was every
year I on the patreon.
I like what?
What kind of weird stuff can Italk about?
That won't be last a wholepodcast, but I can do for for a
while.
I forgot one more podcast toinfinity stones, dragon bones,
(04:43):
where I talk about marvel stuff,because I just had an episode
on thunderbolts which just cameout.
Uh, that one's infrequentwhenever there's a new marvel
thing.
So, yeah, they're, I'm doing.
I got a you know a lot ofthings in the fire right now
that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
So how?
Okay, it's clear your life,your work.
Movies are just everywhere.
Um, how did you first get thispassionate about movies?
Speaker 1 (05:06):
you know I've I've always just been, you know, a
big fan of movies.
I've loved watching them as akid.
Um, you know, my, my parentswould always put on like raiders
of the lost ark or star wars,or you know, jurassic park was
one of the first movies I thinkI ever saw in a theater.
You know I was like three whenit came out and just, you know,
it know, it was always like theyweren't like big, you know,
(05:28):
movie snob people we weren'twatching, like, you know,
necessarily like these, likeauteur movies, like I didn't
watch like Brief Encounter orsomething as a kid, but I
watched a lot of these kind oflike iconic movies.
You know Princess Bride, thesecultural touchstones, and I just
love movies and you know Iwould go to.
I worked at a movie theater whenI was a teenager.
(05:49):
That was like my first job inhigh school and college and you
know I wanted to be an actor fora while.
I really wanted to be in moviesfor a minute and I, you know,
studied acting for a couplesemesters before I switched over
to be an English major to focusmore on the writing side and as
it went along, you know I so Iwas a writer and I loved movies
(06:11):
and then eventually just startedkind of like writing about
movies.
And then that became whenpodcasting became a thing.
I was like, well, let me starttalking about movies.
And yeah, so it's always been apassion in my life and over the
years, you know, I dideventually go back and watch
Brief Encounter and get morefilm knowledge and stuff like
that and watch all these kind oflike classic films.
(06:33):
You know and I always try to,you know, stay as knowledgeable
as I can about movies and youknow, with my English background
I might not have as much of atechnical side of movies movies
from my education but I try tomake up for that by reading
stuff like in the blink of aneye by walter murch or
adventures in the screen tradeby william goldman all these
great books on film so I mean,yeah, movies around you.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
From an early age I had a similar kind of experience
with jurassic park, like it'sone of the.
It's actually a funny story,like I I think I was when did it
was like 94 93 uh, 93 the first.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Okay, yeah, so I was.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I was six and I, you know, as a six-year-old, I
fucking love dinosaurs, and so Ireally, I really wanted to see
this movie, and my, my mom, mystepdad, knew that I wanted to
see it.
So they decided that we'regonna go see it to see if, like
it goes, it was PG-13 orwhatever.
So they're like to see if a sixyear old can handle it, or
whatever.
And they went and they enjoyedit.
(07:34):
But they said at one point itgot so scary that the woman
sitting next to my stepdad, likeinvoluntarily, like dug her
nails into his arm, like, and sothey're like, ok, we're going
to wait a couple of years.
I was like so, anyway, got tosee it later.
It was great.
Um, so what?
I mean, you were exposed to allthese just basically like fun,
(07:55):
like pop culture movies, likethis movie is out, going to go
see it.
So what was it about thesethings that made you think, oh,
I really want to pursue a careeraround this, this around this
culture, around movies andtelevision and what have you?
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yeah, I think it was just something where, you know,
I I just kind of got soengrossed in it and the
storytelling, like it's justsuch a.
You know it's a relativelyyoung medium.
You know, like you had novelsand plays and things like that
around for you know, thousandsof years, uh, and movies have
been around for over 100 years,like two, like just under 200
(08:35):
years.
You know, like movies have beena medium and I think that we
are now kind of really startingto figure out like how do we
like tell these stories in areally interesting way?
You know, with my background in, you know, when I studied
acting it was mostly in theater,so I came at it from that point
(08:56):
of view.
But I was like you can do somuch more interesting stuff by
like you know the way you placeyour camera and things like that
.
And I was really and you knowjust you can place your camera
and things like that.
And I was really and you knowjust you can tell these unique,
interesting stories through filmand TV that you wouldn't be
able to necessarily tell throughanother medium, and I and you
could just throw on a movie.
(09:16):
I, just as much as I'm a hugereader, I love to just like
watch a movie and just getcompletely taken into that world
.
Go on this, and whether it'slike a crazy sci-fi thing that
you would never be able to see,or if it's just like, hey, this
is like a slice of life, this islike a very realistic quote
unquote story, I'm always reallyinvested and I wanted to like
(09:38):
analyze that and look at it froman angle where I could really
understand why these people aretelling these stories and what
kind of stories they're tryingto tell.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
That's great.
So, with all that, why did youwant to talk about the Truman
Show today?
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Yeah, truman Show is actually one that I, you know, I
did grow up with, and so it's amovie that I had my whole life
and it's it's a movie that itwasn't one of my first, I think,
introductions to existentialismlike, like, and because there
was a lot of movies that cameout around this time in the like
(10:18):
, the last two or three years ofthe 90s, that deal with these
concepts of like, what, if like,everything around you like, is
you got to question thingsaround you, what is the meaning
of the world?
Like, what is this thing youknow?
So, obviously you have this.
You have and movies that youwouldn't necessarily, at first
blush, pair with this but Ithink are actually very similar
(10:39):
stuff, like the matrix or fightclub or dark city.
You know they all come out in98, 99, and they're all part of
this trend of we're at the 90,we're at the end of the 90s,
it's before 9-11 has happened,the Cold War has been over for a
few years.
So I think that especially theUS was very introspective.
(11:02):
People were looking at theirown lives, at existing, and all
those you know movies to somedegree are about existing in
this kind of suburban world,this very like, and you know,
obviously this movie is all,it's all crafted, you know, it's
all done for Truman and lookingat the world and being like, is
(11:23):
this the real life that I have?
Like, is this real, like, isthis just, you know, not
literally, I'm not saying, youknow, like, oh, like, I actually
believe I'm in the Truman Show,but, like you know, there's got
to be more to the world thanjust this kind of like day in,
day out, like I'm going to myjob, type thing.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
The people on the elevator.
There was no backing on it.
I looked out, there was peoplethere and on the radio on the
way to work starts following mealong talking about everything
that I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
You know what I mean.
Now, Truman, look, this is oneof your fantasies.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
I think this is about my dad, your dad.
I think he's alive.
Yeah, I'll tell you about itlater.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
I just really really love this movie.
I I'll tell you about it laterI just really really love this
movie.
I think it's one that you knowit's not like it's gone away
necessarily, but I don't thinkit's as popular as it was.
But I think that the wholeTruman Show phenomenon that
happened, where people, like Isaid in middle school I was like
, am I on the Truman Show?
(12:21):
Like that's not an uncommonthing.
I talked to somebody at workyesterday about this movie and
they were like yeah, I, uh, Ikind of don't want to watch that
movie because I would feel likeI would be really paranoid
watching it.
And I I think it really thatpart of the movie you're like
really hit on something likedeep in our psychology, of just
like, like, and I think part ofit's like everybody kind of like
like marlin says like wants tobe the main character, but part
(12:43):
of it is just like man therethere is just like something off
and like I gotta figure outwhat it is, and so I think that
this movie really does get tothe core of a lot of people's.
You know, not psychoses, butjust kind of like their way of
thinking.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Okay so take me back to do you remember the first
time you saw the truman show?
Speaker 1 (13:05):
I was trying to think about like the very first time,
because I think this I I don'tremember it exactly, but I
remember watching it at a veryyoung age because the movie
comes out.
I'm like eight years old and Idon't think I saw it in theaters
, but I know my mom really likedit and you know, this is to me
a time when I'm like, oh, likejim carrey is like the funny
(13:27):
goofy guy like he's the guy whodoes all the voices, you know
he's.
He's like mocking batman withhis butt, like he's doing all
this stuff, you know, and so andhe's there's still, like he's
still jim carrey, but he's muchmore toned down in this movie
and between this and anothermovie we've covered, eternal
sunshine, which I saw when I waslike a teenager.
(13:49):
I really came to appreciate hima lot more as an actor and I
remember, yeah, just being ayoung kid being like, wow, this
is like an absolute trip.
You know, I think I was maybelike 10 or 12 when I eventually
did see it and thinking about,like, like you know, it was kind
of like baby's firstexistentialism like you know,
like this is like it wasintroducing me to all these
(14:09):
concepts at a young age, aboutthinking about the world through
a a much different lens.
Um, and yeah, just I rememberyou know my mom loving it, my
dad liking and I was really justvery engrossed watching it on
my, you know, you know fullscreen like tube tv.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
I know sometimes it's hard to like kind of revert
back in our heads about likewhat were we, like, you know, at
this certain age?
But you're, you know you hadfamily, appreciate it, you were,
you were thinking it was a trip, like was there, was there, so
what was it about it that madeyou like appreciate it for what
it was?
Because, yeah, like you said,it's not classic Jim Carrey,
(14:53):
this is a very it's a very adultmovie when, regarding themes,
but for some reason, like as Imean, I think I saw it when I
was like maybe like 13 orsomething and so like it really
took a hold of me.
So what do you think it isabout?
This?
Such like existential conceptcan even connect with someone
who's like prepubescent or earlyteenage years.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah, I think I definitely saw it at like the
right time.
You know, like I'm 10 or 12 orwhatever, so that's like right
at the time when you're likestart to really become you know,
become for lack of a betterword a person.
I'm not just like, hey, I likethis movie because dinosaurs.
I'm like oh, there's some deeperthings going on here.
And, yeah, this movie if I wasyounger there would probably not
be a lot for me other thanmaybe some jokes and stuff, but
(15:38):
there was some really deep stuffthat I was kind of like, huh,
that's very interesting.
And I was kind of like, huh,that's very interesting.
And the scene that I was, evenfrom a young age, always stuck
with me is the scene where he'stalking to the guy playing
Marlin, his best friend.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
The point is, I would gladly step in front of traffic
for you, Truman, and the lastthing I'd ever do is lie to you,
and the last thing that I wouldever do is why do you?
Speaker 1 (16:14):
I mean, think about it for a minute, if everybody is
in on it I'd have to be in onit too and it's such such a
heartbreaking scene and he'sgiving such a great performance
and you're like, okay, well, youwant to believe him.
The same time you're cutting andthis is the first time this
really happens in the filmyou're cutting to Kristoff, just
like in his ear, which I don'tknow how he's talking to him.
(16:35):
That's a whole other thing, buthe's like telling him exactly,
he's like feeding him his linesand it's just such a betrayal
that I was just like remember asa kid being like, wow, this
moment, which should be thisbeautiful moment between the two
of them and it's about it notbeing fabricated is completely
(16:58):
fabricated and that really had abig impact on me.
And I just remember reallybeing interested by you know,
the whole themes and the acting,and like there was a while when
you know, as a kid, as like ayoung teen, I was just like,
well, what if I'm on the TrumanShow?
Like what if?
(17:19):
Like that's a thing you know,like because, like you know, you
watch that movie.
You're like you never know theycould do it.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Yeah, like the whole.
We can't question thetechnology of how this was made
because there's a lot going onand I'm like where is the camera
?
Is it a?
Speaker 1 (17:38):
button Like what.
It's either the most obviousthing ever where he's like
there's like a neighbor holdingthe trash can, or it's just like
whatever like, yeah, just gowith it.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah, we quite question it, and I think that's
what's really fascinating aboutthis film too.
Is that, um, it's, it'ssimultaneously showing us a
fictional story about Truman,but it's it's also a movie about
the fictional story of Truman.
So there are these like metalevels that are interesting to
(18:08):
poke at, um, but you can'tquestion too much of like where
is, where is the line betweenthe two?
I think, um, but yeah, yeah,that scene you were talking
about with, uh, his friendmarlin, is, yeah, it's a
heartbreaking scene and it wasfascinating, is like for me at
least.
I'm watching this scene.
This was, I think I'd only Ire-watched it, obviously for our
(18:30):
chat, but I think it was onlythe second time I'd seen it.
I hadn't seen it in a very longtime.
So I was watching this and Iwas like, I mean, I know how it
ends.
Yeah, it's, it's, it's aniconic ending as well, visually,
so we're aware of it.
But I'm thinking and I'mwatching marlin say all these
things, even though they'rechristoph's words, and I'm
believing him, even though Iknow it's not real.
(18:53):
And so a part of me is likewhat if, like, the guy that's
playing marlin actually doesfeel this way, like where is,
like, how blurred is the linebetween truth and reality?
And I think one thing that justkind of one thing that breaks
it is actually, uh, the propthat marlin always has with him
(19:18):
is beer.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
He always has a six pack of beer, or at least a can
of beer, but the productplacement in this film, of these
fictional things, uh, really isfunny yes, it's, it's very and
like this movie feels like itpredicts a lot of things like
from like the product placementin this, where there's, just
(19:41):
because you know it's, it'sreally, it's like a clever word,
like, well, how would you havethe show without you know any
commercials?
Like well, product placement.
And now I always said that wasthe thing before this movie
comes out, but it's become soprevalent now where it's like
you watch a transformers movieand like a mountain dew vending
machine gets turned into a thingyou know, uh, but it also think
with reality tv, like the how,like reality tv was not really
(20:03):
that a thing, like I guess therewas like maybe the real world
comes out like the year beforeyeah and I think, okay, yeah,
survivor hadn't come out justyet, but it was like the next
year it was close so, yeah, thisis our kind of like predicting.
So you watch it now you're like,wow, they really did know it
was coming and I I love that.
You know, talk about marlin, um, you know who's played by Noah
(20:24):
Emmerich, who is great, likehe's always like the best friend
and stuff, but he's reallyfantastic and I think he's so
like the way he does his likebeers and his product.
He just kind of like is likeTruman, that is a beer, like
he's.
It's funny because I think he'splaying a good actor who is
able to naturally work inproduct placement.
(20:45):
And then Laura Linney, who is agood actor, is playing a bad
actor.
So the character Hannah who'splaying Meryl, she's not good.
Hi, honey.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Look what I got for you at the checkout.
It's a chef's pal, it's a dicergrater peeler all in one.
Never need sharpening,dishwasher safe.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Wow, that's amazing and it's funny because it like
it totally shows you like thequote, unquote right way to do
product placement and the waythat it just like breaks the
immersion, um, and so I thinkthat was really good because
apparently laura linney likelike studied like sears catalogs
and stuff from like the 1950sthat performance, yeah, yeah and
(21:35):
then, and then you know, goingback to noah emmerich, like he
apparently, um, it's a, he doeslike a bunch of stuff that's
like not even hinted at in themovie where he was like for it's
like, yeah, for my character,like he was, he said he was like
an alcoholic or recoveringalcoholic because he got really
jealous of truman and he's likethis.
So he, you know, he knows thewhole thing.
He's like I kind of wanted itto be the merrill show but it
(21:57):
never was going to be.
Like he wrote that into hischaracter and I think that's
that is the sign of really goodacting is where you put all this
stuff.
That's not even that's not onthe page, that's not gonna show
up on the screen, but it'simportant to your performance
and I think that all theperformances in this really come
across well yeah, so that'sinteresting you said that about
um laura lenny studying like 50sseries catalogs.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Because the aesthetic in this film is so strange,
because it's part like 1950s,early 60s, suburb, like like
culture, but the cars are likestill kind of 90s and the attire
(22:38):
for a lot of people likethere's a lot of plaid in this
film, like there's a lot ofreally bright colors that I I
don't think I've seen in anykind of movie or catalog before,
and so it's this really strangestructure I thought of like
these different historicalaesthetics just kind of blending
together and I don't know ifI'm reading too much into that.
But I couldn't really placelike why they chose.
(23:00):
Like it seemed like they werechoosing styles from three
different decades over thecourse of maybe half a century
and trying to fit them into oneanother and I wasn't really sure
how to read that.
But like I was just struck bythis film is gorgeous and but
none of it makes sense to me,like nothing was fitting
together yeah, it's interestingbecause I was thinking about two
(23:22):
in a similar vein.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Like I was like where is this sea haven supposed to
be?
like obviously we know it's in,actually in la like behind the
hollywood sign, but, like, whereis like in the fictional
reality of truman's world?
Where does he think he does hethink he's in may because, like
you see a license plate, at onetime point it just says sea
haven, and so, and I think that,in terms of like the time
(23:46):
period that it's emulating andthe fact that it's like supposed
to be kind of like whatever sayI think it's supposed to be,
that whole thing is like.
It is this kind of likeamalgamation of just different
idealized quote-unquote americandreams, and to the point where,
apparently, when they were likescouting the location, they
were like having a really toughtime finding it and, um, they
(24:10):
were going to build it on asoundstage at universal studios,
but then eventually they found,like, this master plan place in
florida, and I feel like thewhole combination of like what
state is this?
What time period is this?
It speaks to what christoph issaying at the end when he's
talking to truman and he's likeI have created this kind of like
(24:31):
perfect world.
This amalgamation of like thisis kind of this norman,
rockwell-esque like elements,all these idealized things, this
what we think of as america,you know it's.
It's like what, when people saymaking america great, this is
what they picture, an americathat never actually existed.
It's this fictionalized idyllicworld and like all those other
(24:56):
movies I mentioned, where it'slike the matrix or, you know,
dark city, this, this fictionalworld that's been created for
these people, this fictionalworld that's been created for
these people, things are notquite right.
You're starting to realize thatit's wrong and, over the course
of the movie, truman realizeslike no, this is messed up, this
is fucked up.
What's happening to me?
I need to break out and get tothe real world, and I love that.
(25:18):
At the end, you know, kristoff,is like stay here, I've created
this kind of quote unquoteperfect world.
The real world is the one thatsucks.
You know, chris Hoffman's likestay here, I've created this
kind of quote-unquote perfectworld.
The real world is the one thatsucks.
You know, like, this is whereyou should stay.
I was watching when you wereborn.
I was watching when you tookyour first step.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I watched you on your first day of school.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
The episode when you lost your first tooth.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
You can't leave, Truman.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Please, gus, you belong here, you can do it With
me and I love we never get tosee Trumanuman out in the real
world, like running around,being like, oh here's this, here
here's, you know, like a street, like you know.
You don't have that scene thatyou would have in a lot of other
movies, it's just he justleaves and he's out in the real
(26:15):
world and leaving behind thisfake amalgamation of what we
think the world should look like.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
So, from a metaphorical standpoint or
allegorical, however you want tophrase it, what is Kristoff in
this movie?
Speaker 1 (26:34):
I think Kristoff is God.
I think because he's like.
There's even that beat at theend when he says Truman, I am
the creator of a television show.
Like he leaves an intentionalpause.
Yeah, there's that pause thereand so he's kind of like always
looking down on truman, likeliterally, like he's in his like
(26:55):
little thing in the sky andhe's cultivated and created this
whole person's life and he he'scontrolling it and he's put
he's literally like putting thefear of God in him like you can
never escape.
You've got to stay in, I think,and and I love that he's.
You know, it's, it's kind ofthis, it's it's it's really
great, because I feel like themovie with Kristoff and Truman
(27:18):
is kind of giving you this wholething about like is there free
will, will, right?
Because Kristoff is kind oflike, yeah, he could leave
anytime he wants to if he reallywanted to.
At the same time, he is doingeverything in his power to make
sure that that never happens, tothe point where he almost kills
him when he is about ready toleave.
Give me some light again.
(27:39):
Get him again god's sake, chris.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
The whole world is watching.
We can't let him die in frontof a live audience.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
He was born in front of a live audience so I think
that Kristoff is kind of thisstand-in for God or the universe
or whatever being this, or thenon-existence of free will,
fighting against you and, likeyou know, get against this.
You know, old Testament stylevengeful God and escape.
So I think Kristoff is reallyinteresting and Ed Harris's
(28:33):
performance is fantastic.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Are you someone who subscribes to the idea of a God
or a universal rule, or what areyour thoughts on free will?
This is a deep question.
Yeah, right, yeah, subscribesto the idea of a god or a
universal rule, or what are yourthoughts on free will?
These are the deep questions.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah right, yeah.
So I I was definitely likeraised religious, like casually
religious though, like I'm likebecause, like my parents, like
my mom was raised mormon and mydad was like ray, like born in
like the south, so both fromvery religious upbringings, and
so I felt like they were kind oflike well, we gotta impart this
on to our kids, so we'll go tochurch sometimes, you know.
(29:10):
So it was like and it wasalways think of, uh, when I
think of how religious was, Ithink of that scene in 40 old
virgin, when kat dennings getsin trouble and her mom's like
we're going back to church, likethat's about the level of
religion that I grew up with andI've always kind of I stopped.
That stuff has always stuckwith me.
But I don't necessarily believein like a dude in the clouds,
(29:35):
like watch walking down andbeing like all right dude.
But I believe there's somethingout there, right?
I believe there's some kind ofhigher power, there's some kind
of you know, I don't want tocall it destiny or whatever, but
that there's, you know there's.
There's some kind of you know,not necessarily order, but some
kind of like something in theuniverse that keeps it going and
(29:58):
I people.
Some people might call that god.
People like other religionsmight interpret it a different
way.
I think that we all kind oflook at it through a different
lens, but ultimately I'd say I'mkind of agnostic, I'm like I
don't know.
Seems like there's somethingout there, but maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe people who think there'snothing out there are right,
(30:18):
could be, maybe somebody who hasa completely different idea is
right, you know.
So, um, yeah, and ultimately andit comes to free will, I think
I think we do have free will,but I think that it's something
where it's like you can maybepredict, um, what someone's
gonna do, what's like whatthings are gonna happen, but I
(30:38):
don't think that necessarily umtakes away from free will.
Uh, and to kind of talk aboutanother show that you know, uh,
we, that we talked about maybedoing, but we didn't like,
there's this whole fifth seasonof lost, where that involves
time travel in a reallyinteresting way.
That, I think, asks you isthere free will or is it
predetermined?
And I think, um, you know, youcan kind of maybe do both,
(31:02):
although that soundscontradictory.
That's kind of what I.
You can kind of maybe do both,although that sounds
contradictory.
That's kind of what I believe.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
What kind of were you inspired at all by this film?
Kind of from the filmmakingstandpoint or a film analysis
standpoint?
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Yeah, I would say I was definitely inspired because,
you know, this movie has somany interesting and deep themes
and I was like I really want toanalyze this.
And that's one of the reasonswhen, you know, when we were
talking about, like, what wouldyou like to talk about?
You know, it's always been oneof my favorite films, you know
from right when I saw it, andit's one that I've never gotten
(31:34):
a chance to talk about before.
You know, like I've I'veguessed it on a ton of podcasts.
Obviously I have a few of myown and I've never gotten a
chance to talk about the TrumanShow or, you know, analyze it in
any in-depth way.
And so I was like, well, thiswould be a really good shot.
I was definitely reallyinspired and so it also, I think
(31:54):
, does a lot of smart stuff.
Like it inspired me from like awriting perspective, where,
looking at the script processfor this and you know, obviously
peter weir is, you know, veryinvolved in how this comes
together.
He's the director, but hedidn't write the script, um,
andrew nickel wrote the scriptand looking at the development
of it, how it starts, is likekind of a very more sci-fi s
(32:16):
script, and he has went throughlike dozens and dozens of drafts
to get to where it was todayand I think that the sci-fi
stuff is really cool.
Like you know, that would havebeen interesting.
Like you get something similarwith dark city, but you it also.
I think is it a really goodexercise in how can you take
(32:36):
this kind of big existential onhis face, something that should
be a sci-fi concept, and more orless ground it in reality and
give you those same existentialthemes and these themes of like
god and like free will anddestiny and you know your life
being all a simulation and haveit be grounded in 1998, los
(32:59):
angeles yeah, like that's.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
That's always interesting to me is films that
like present certain like sci-fitropes or like there's like
elements of all these things.
But the movie itself keepsitself very grounded and like
very approachable for a lot ofreasons, and I think one of the
reasons actually like castingjim carrey, like he's just like
he's at this point a goofball,like he's almost everyone's
(33:25):
favorite goofball to watch on tvand then film, and I think it
is a lot.
He has a lot of work trying tolike be silly.
But also it does come across tome as like a veneer of almost
like how someone, of almost likehow someone should act when
(33:47):
they have all these things thatwe're supposed to want.
Like going back to like thisanalysis of like the Amer, this
metaphor of the American dream,or whatever, like it's a little
over the top.
He's like waving to hisneighbors every morning and
saying the exact same thing andsmiling really widely, going
through the exact same motions,and we're supposed to feel like
this is what we want.
And then very quickly we'reintroduced to the fact that he's
(34:08):
like he's actually secretlylooking for something else and
he's not even sure exactly whatthat is.
And even early on in this film.
When the light drops, when thelight drops from, however high
up that uh, uh, that light gridis, um, if we had no idea what
this movie was when we firststarted watching it, that would,
(34:30):
that would immediately clue usin to what is this?
Yeah, and I feel like thatlends itself to those science
fiction type things, thosefantasy type things.
Um, so if you were Truman, howlong do you think it would take
you to figure out what's going?
Speaker 1 (34:47):
on.
Ok, that's, that's.
That's a really good question,right?
Because, yeah, like Truman,like they say, this is like
season 30.
So I guess that's implied thatTruman's 30 years old, you know.
I don't know, like I'm, like Iwould, I feel like maybe I would
figure it out when I was like ateenager, a teenager, and I was
like starting to get more likeaware of the world.
(35:09):
But you know, like it's easy tosay that you know, because and
I love that they do like kind of, like, you know, say that they
are doing things to keep Trumanfrom figuring this stuff out and
to like artificially keep himon this island, like they have
the whole thing where they, you,you know, kill off his dad to
make him afraid of water andbecause they're like, yeah, he's
naturally curious, he wanted togo explore.
(35:30):
And that's how I am too, like Iwant to go, like explore the
world and find out theseinteresting things.
Um, so I don't know, I I don'tknow if you ever saw like the
joe schmoe show, or or a morerecent example would be jury
duty, where they have a juryduty, yeah, jury duty, which is
incredible, yeah, and it's.
You know, those are both likethese fake reality shows where
(35:50):
there's like one contestant onthem who is actually the only
contestant, and it's like thetruman show, but for like a
reality show, and they're justkind of like realizing so and
like in seat um, the reason thatboth those shows work is
because they both both of thembasically get like the most
kind-hearted, just kind of likereally good, like guy who also
(36:10):
is just like kind of like, kindof a little bit of a doofus, you
know, like in the best possibleway and the reason that they in
like when they did a second.
This is like back in the early2000s when they did a second
season of joe schmo show.
One of the reasons it didn'twork is because, um, one of the
contestants figured out she waslike this is weird, things are
(36:32):
happening on this show thatdon't make any sense, and she
figured out it was like a fakereality show.
So I like to think that I wouldbe in the same vein and kind of
figure it out a little bitquicker yeah, that's what I was
thinking too is like, okay, yeah, how long would it take me?
Speaker 2 (36:46):
and I honestly have no idea.
But like from the, from themovie's point of view, like we
are shown something is wrongfrom like just something going
from, something going wrong likeout of their control, yeah,
like the light falling, likethat's a physical thing, that's
like where the hell did thatcome from?
And if he's like what does heknow what that exactly is?
(37:06):
And they have like the radioexplaining him it came from a
plane or whatever fuck.
And then then we have our, ourflashback scene with the, the
woman he's truly attracted to inhigh school and truly
interested in, and she's justacting strange to him would you
want?
to maybe possibly sometime goout for some pizza or something
(37:29):
like Friday.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Saturday, sunday, monday, tuesday.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
We have finals tomorrow.
Yeah, I know, if we don't gonow it won't happen.
Do you understand?
So what do you want to do Likeit doesn't feel?
To me, what felt more real wasthe light falling from the sky
than her acting the way she did,because people can behave in
(38:01):
strange ways, but if we see anactual, like physical thing,
that's way out of place.
I feel like that would start toquestion some things, and I
don't know if truman justdoesn't know anything about
planes, that they don't havethese like these stage lights
attached to them or not.
But yeah, I thought that waslike kind of.
it was like that was the firstbreadcrumb like the movie's,
(38:22):
very careful but like okay, thisis the first breadcrumb of uh
him and you as an audiencefiguring out that like something
else is, is going on here well,I, I like that you brought up
sylvia.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
You know the kind of other love interests of his
because, uh, and one of us islike, okay, like he, you know he
he's kind of like had thisbrief romance with this, this
girl, but also I feel like shekind of represents this freedom
where everything else around himis so controlled, and like he
is set on this path and he doesthis thing where you know the
(38:52):
point where his wife ispreselected for him, like, and
he doesn't even like, reallylike her, like it's clear he
doesn't like his wife and he'sjust like and he says to her
like you don't even like meeither.
Like what is happening, you knowwhy do like and he says they're
like you don't even like meeither.
Like what is happening, youknow why do you have a want to
have a baby with me?
You hate me and you know, liketo the point where his mom, his
best friend, in that scene wealready talked about, like the
ultimate, like everything aroundhim is so fake and then for one
(39:15):
night he gets a glimpse ofsomeone and something real and
then he, like hyper, fixates onthat for the next like 15 years
or whatever, and obviouslythere's the other things that
kick this into motion.
But like I think that he'salways kind of had doubt because
of that night and because foronce in his entire life
(39:37):
something was real, and to thepoint where I love that when you
know the guy, the other extrakind of like rolls up on the
beach in the car and like dragsher off.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
He's going to lie to you what's going on.
I really would like to knowwhat's going on.
She has episodes.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
We tried everything, hypothism, everything.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Don't listen to him, truman Don't worry, don't worry,
you're not the first.
You're not the first Truman.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
She here.
What's he saying?
Truman?
He's lying.
Get out of here, come on, don'tworry, we're going to school,
we're moving to fiji, like youknow.
He just kind of says we'regoing to fiji.
You know, he just like throwsit out because he's improvising,
right, uh, and?
And truman like hyper, like itwas just some random thing he
said, and he's like want to goto f, to Fiji, let's go to.
And so I think that Fijibecomes this thing of like, fiji
(40:31):
and Sylvia become this thing oflike I can get out.
There is this other world,beyond, something that I'm
seeing and that leads to somereally great scenes where he
tries to leave and the busbreaks down and nobody can drive
it, or like he goes.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
The driver looks so confused.
Right Anytime he he has tooperate a vehicle, it's so good.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
And then I think one of my favorite things is to when
he goes to the travel agencyand like all of the posters on
the walls are like you're goingto die, like the best, like the
lightning strike hitting theplane is like it could happen to
you.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
I know god is so funny, um, yeah, so, speaking of
which, I mean we've talkedabout plenty of scenes and
moments like do you have asingle favorite scene or moment
from this film?
Speaker 1 (41:15):
I, I think.
So those are all great.
I think the best scene is thelast scene, right, because you
know it's it's.
You know that scene scene priorto it is he's like out in the
waves.
You know he's literally andfiguratively crossing the
threshold and getting throughthis like insane storm that
(41:36):
Kristoff, slash, god or whateverhas created for him to get
through.
And then finally that breaksand he's like free.
And then the boat just like hitsthe wall, it crashes through
and Truman's like what is this,you know, and the music, just
the swelling music, just cutsout and you see him kind of like
(42:00):
look and see, like the world,like the end of the world as far
as he's concerned.
He's like like what is this?
And he's trying to like breakout.
The music comes back in andthen you have that whole
exchange with him and christophwhere he's taught.
He's like looking up in theclouds and like that's once
again.
It's like you cannot ignore themetaphors there and he's like
speaking to this voice that iscoming down to him and he just
(42:24):
chooses to leave.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
In case I don't see you Good afternoon, good evening
and good night.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Yeah, he like what.
He doesn't know what's outthere in the real world.
He's only lived his entire30-year existence in this
cultivated reality and hechooses to step out.
And you know, you're as, you'regetting that, you're also
getting everybody who's swept upin this, everybody who's
watching it, and I think thisgoes back to what we were
(43:04):
talking about before, like thepower of tv or film.
You know, these people are soengaged with truman's life, they
love his story.
There's that whole bar.
Uh, there's the japanese familywhich, by the way, I love, that
like chosen from the karate kid2 is.
Yes, I was like that's chosen.
Yeah, I was like hold on.
But you know, and there's theguy in the tub.
(43:27):
There's like the you know theparking garage guys, and it's
this beautiful sweeping sceneand he like, literally like kind
of climbs the stairs in the skyand gets out, and then Sylvia
runs down and it's like, likeyou know, they're going to
there's implied they're going tofind each other, and then it
just ends like what else implied?
Speaker 2 (43:44):
they're gonna find each other, and then it just is
like what else is on?
Speaker 1 (43:46):
yeah, let's do what else, and then the movie ends.
It's perfect, perfect ending.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
10 out of 10 yeah, I, so I do love this.
That ending scene specificallyfor me like cutting from all the
reactions of the viewers, thefans, like, yeah, you do have
people that are so invested inthis show and then are invested
in Truman that they you knowit's a, it's a parasocial
(44:10):
relationship.
Like they're like, oh, we lovethis guy, like we want him to
succeed no matter what it is,even if, like, the show's over.
And then we have, like the guysin the parking garage that are
like it's something they'rewatching, it's like that's all
of it, like they're enjoyingthemselves, like they're being
very entertained, but when it'sover, they're like, okay, what
is the next thing that we aregoing to participate in?
(44:31):
Um, for you, like you know,lover of, lover of movie and TV
shows and all all other kinds ofpop culture stuff.
Like how, how do you find abalance with what you're
watching to be something you aretruly invested in beyond when
it is over?
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Ooh, that's a good question, because I do think
that, like things should endright, like theories should not
just keep going on to infinity,like you know, to infinity.
And just like you know, at acertain point, the story of this
character or this you knowplace or whatever has to end,
and that is something I thinkabout.
(45:13):
It's like okay, like is this?
Is there like more to thinkabout with this, like you know,
or is this like a containedthing?
And I think that, yeah, yeah,like there's a reason why, you
know, when something like starwars becomes as popular as there
is, you know, this desire tolike, let's keep it going, let's
(45:33):
make all these books, let's doall these different things.
And I and you know, becausepeople are very interested,
people are interested by, like,the lore and the themes and
stuff, and I think sometimesthat can be a little superfluous
.
But sometimes you can also getlike with Star Wars, you can get
Andor, which just wrapped up aswe're recording this and I was
like it's one of the mostincredible TV shows I've ever
seen.
So you know, and that's whilethe story of Star Wars did wrap
(45:57):
up.
You know, we had three moviesand then we had six movies and
nine movies, but it's done atsome point.
You can still take things fromthat and extrapolate it in
interesting ways, like they dowith andor.
This is a story that ties intothat and it gives you a new
perspective on it, but it's alsoits own really interesting
thing yeah, yeah, I don't knowif that made sense or if it
(46:20):
answered your question.
No, it does.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
It does it I, you know I was like, yeah, now I
want to talk about andor.
But I haven't finished.
I haven't watched the lastthree episodes, but the three
before that I was like fuck.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
I've got two left, so , okay, nice, um.
So I'm thinking a lot about thelike, the actors playing actors
in this film and like, what arethey like?
What are they doing when thecamera's not rolling?
Like when they go home, wheredo they go?
Are they going to their homesthat are in the Truman Dome?
(46:53):
Uh, because we have a scenewhere he tries to get on an
elevator and there's like extrasand someone taking a smoke
break like behind the fakeelevator.
So I'm thinking about all thesepeople that are kind of in this
movie and how they, these actorsthat are actors in the movie,
thinking about how they'rebehaving when they're not around
Truman or not focused on kindof a on being on the Truman show
(47:14):
, and it got me thinking aboutjust how we behave when we're on
camera.
And the word authentic isreally overused, but that's kind
of what we're talking abouthere.
Is this authenticity of thepeople that we are witnessing?
Um, as someone who is hosts andis on multiple podcasts, you
give, you know, multiple panels.
(47:35):
Um, is there, is what we'reseeing right now.
Is it the real you?
Speaker 1 (47:40):
That's, that's a good yeah, that's a good cause.
I think you know, as you know,as someone, like I said, I have
a background in acting.
I think that, subconsciously ornot, like you're always kind of
like not playing a part, butthere there's certain things
about yourself like whether it'slike on a podcast or you know
(48:01):
at work or however you want todo it that you're always kind of
presenting, and I don't thinkthat necessarily means it's not
like the real you.
It's just there's parts ofyourself that you're not
necessarily always showing, likeI always think of.
You know, one day at my day jobI was like doing like an
announcement and I was like hey,the store is gonna be closing
and and one of my co-workers waslike oh you, just your podcast
(48:23):
voice, that's your body.
And I was like oh you, justyour podcast voice that's your
body.
I was like, oh, but you know itwas.
It was reminding me ofsomething you were saying
earlier, because obviouslythere's all these actors on the
show.
The one person who isn't anactor is Truman, but he is still
performing in a lot of this.
You know, when he goes into hisjob, when he's around his wife
(48:44):
or anything, and you know, know,different people get different
levels of authenticity.
Probably the most, um,authentic he is around anyone is
with meryl.
He's like the one person who'skind of like really confiding in
um, but I don't think even thenhe's like you know, fully
himself, because you, it's likeyou said, like he's does that,
like hey, like affable, likegood afternoon, good evening,
(49:06):
good night, you know, like thatwhole thing.
But then you know, and he'sdoing his kind of more carry
isms at that point.
But then there's the times whenhe's just kind of like by
himself and he's like rippingout the magazine, he's like
trying to, when he thinks, youknow, in these moments where we
all have, where we're like weare truly alone, we are our
quote-unquote authentic selvesthat nobody in the world might
(49:28):
ever see, maybe our partner ifthat, but he's definitely not.
Truman's not letting hispartner see that.
But he's just his real,authentic self in a moment that
he thinks is just his own.
And that's why I think you know, in the fiction of this, why
people are so invested in trumanis because you do get to see
those moments of him being hisreal self, not putting on a
(49:50):
performance, not doing his hisstick at all.
He's really being his true self.
And I think that people loveauthenticity and you know the
fictional viewers of the trumanshow are really eating that up.
So I think, yeah, this is thereal me, but it's, it's a part
of the real me that's fair.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
That's fair well, derrick.
Thanks so much, man.
This was an absolute blast toto talk about this movie with
you.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
I really, really appreciate it thank you, yeah, I
I had a ton of fun.
I I'm really glad you.
Let me talk about this movie.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
If you're someone who might be thinking that your
life is a lie or that you maybewish your life was a lie, I just
want you to know that thepeople closest to you love you.
Our world can sometimes be safelittle bubbles that are made to
protect us, but it's okay togrow out of them.
(50:49):
But even if you have the desireto move on or out or just grow
beyond it, just know that thelove of those closest to you
will always be real.
A huge thanks to Derek forchatting with me today and a
Hollywood-sign-size Thank you toyou for joining us.
Before you go, please check outat least one of Derek's
(51:11):
podcasts linked in the shownotes.
You could start with underratedmovie podcast.
That's the one I appeared on totalk about Disney's Hercules.
If you enjoyed the show today,please go ahead and subscribe on
your favorite podcast platformchoice to stay up to date on all
of our episodes.
And if you happen to belistening to this on Apple
Podcasts, please leave a ratingand review to help us reach more
(51:31):
awesome folks like yourself,and I produce all of these
episodes out of my own pocket,but I do have some awesome
patrons and you could be one ofthose too.
For more information onsupporting the Film Nuts podcast
, as well as how you can getsome cool stuff in return, check
out patreoncom slash film nutsOur theme this season, is
brought to us by J Mac, ourartwork is designed by McDougall
(51:55):
and all episodes of the FilmNuts podcast are produced and
edited by me, taylor D Adams.
If you want to get in touch,you can email film nuts podcast
at gmailcom or follow us.
I know it's a creepy word, butfollow us on Instagram and
TikTok at Film Nuts Podcast, anddon't forget to join the
Nuthouse Discord communityabsolutely free.
It's so much fun to be there.
I'm not just saying that, it'shonestly true.
You can check that out in theshow notes, along with
(52:17):
everything else.
Thank you all again.
So much for joining me todayand, in case I don't see you,
good afternoon, good evening andgood night.
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