September 17, 2025 • 46 mins
Think financial planners are only for the wealthy? Ray Regmi and Malissa Vargas from Ryker Capital don't think so, revealing why financial advice might be most valuable for everyday Australians.
Ray, with 21 years in financial services, and Malissa, with 32 years in lending, share powerful insights about the transformative impact of good financial planning. They explain why waiting until you're wealthy to seek advice is like saying "I need to be fit before I go to the gym" – completely backward!
Joe explores the critical differences between financial planning and accounting, with planners focusing on future strategies while accountants reconcile the past. Ray and Malissa highlight how innovative approaches like the "cash out and re-contribute" superannuation strategy can save beneficiaries up to $300,000 in taxes. This is knowledge most people simply don't have access to without professional guidance.
Perhaps most valuable is their insight into creating a financial ecosystem where advisors, accountants, and brokers collaborate to maximise client outcomes. This comprehensive approach protects against government policy changes while ensuring all aspects of your financial health are optimised. Whether you're struggling with debt, uncertain about retirement, or simply wanting to make better use of your income, this episode proves that financial planning isn't a luxury, it's an essential resource for building the future you deserve.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Most people think that financial planners are just
for the wealthy.
Speaker 3 (00:03):
No.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
And it's wild when you say that it's like I need to
be fit before I go to the gymno.
It's the opposite.
We've had clients cry becauseobviously when we sort of ask
those personal questions to themwhat money means to you they
don't know how to articulatethat.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
We have so many changes happening in the
Australian federal governmentand the ones that are impacting
both productivity as well as taxand financial planning advice.
How does a financial plannerand a good accountant protect
you from these future changes?
Welcome back to the FinanceShow with Joe.
As always, I am your host,joseph Dowd.
Today, we are joined by twopowerhouse guests Ray Regmi and
(00:39):
Melissa Vargas.
Ray is a senior financialadvisor with over 21 years
experience in the industry.
Melissa has spent over 32 yearsin the lending industry.
In this conversation, we'regoing to unpack a bunch why
Australia might not be asproductive as it was previously
and what the potential of anincrease in GSD could do to the
(00:59):
everyday Australian.
As always, guys, theinformation displayed in this
episode is general in nature andshould you need specific advice
for your personal situation,please speak to your financial
advisors.
Ray, melissa, thank you so muchfor coming on.
Thank you, joe.
Thank you for having us Excitedto be a part of it.
Wow, what an introduction.
I know We've got two greatpeople here, I want to introduce
(01:20):
.
Have you seen how I'm dressedtoday?
I've got Ray here, mate.
I've got Ray and I've gotyourself.
I've got to look the part.
I'm often in a basketballjersey and shorts.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I want to call you Mr Pachito.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Ray, I want to start with yourself.
You didn't start off initiallyas a financial planner.
Am I correct in saying?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
that.
Yeah, absolutely right, joe.
So when I first started out inmy career, I was always sort of
bogged down from my parents togo you've got to be a good
accountant, and I think it sortof was ingrained for my mum and
dad at that point to go I thinkyou need to study accounting,
yeah, you're going to do reallywell at it.
So like, okay, I'll give that ago.
So I did, and soon I university.
(02:06):
This is not for me, but whilst Ilove it look, don't get me
wrong I love numbers and I lovecreating tax strategies it just
wasn't my pathway.
I needed more um and and thatmade me sort of the realization
of, as financial planning wasevolving at the time, um, that
it's not just about investment,it's about creating a good
amount of tax strategies forgood clients and working out a
pathway forward so they're goingright.
(02:27):
This is what, how it's going tosort of work for me.
So that was my idea of it.
Yes, I was a spreadsheetprisoner prisoner for a little
bit I think I'm, uh, verysimilar to yourself.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
I studied economics and I don't think there's any
economist that hasn't spent 10hours behind their desk every
single day.
It's just spreadsheet,spreadsheet, spreadsheet.
This prediction, thatprediction, and I just go to
myself.
This isn't for me.
I like talking to people and Ilike creating solutions, so I
think that's why you and I gotalong straight away.
It was like a nice little hugat the MFAA.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
People have introduced me to you two as the
long-lost brothers, me and Ray,long-lost brothers.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
That is all.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
You're the younger version of Ray or Ray's the
younger version of you.
It depends on the day.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
That is nothing but a compliment.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Oh, I don't know about that.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
If people are saying that that is nothing but a
compliment.
So I will take it.
I don't take compliments.
Well, you can see me, I'mstarting to go red in the face
but I will, for our listeners.
I will accept that today,melissa, you've come from my
world.
You've actually come from theworld of lending.
Yes, I think 32 years workingin the lending space.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Yeah, I started when I was one Okay, I hope there's a
good lens on this camera.
So, basically, not dissimilarto Ray or very different to Ray,
but not dissimilar, where Istarted my degree in law and
realized very quickly that thiswas not for me.
I worked in a law firm while Iwas doing it and it was the most
horrendous experience.
(03:53):
I was like yep.
So I deferred for a year, endedup working in auto, started out
selling cars for a bit of fun.
A very wise, fun man said Mel,come and sell cars for the
summer.
And I'm like women don't sellcars, we're talking in the
nineties.
And he's like that's what willmake it fun.
So I sold cars and very quicklyI had an aptitude for finance
and I transitioned into financeand I worked in asset for a
(04:15):
really long time.
You know I worked at BMW for,you know, in varying capacities,
for close to 20 years of that,then transitioned into broker
and, yeah, into intopartnerships, because everything
that I've ever done has alwaysbeen about relationships.
So partnerships was a veryorganic thing for me to move
into do you know what I lovethat you mentioned partnerships?
Speaker 1 (04:33):
because many people work at the bank and they think
that being a broker istransactional, because they see
a client once, they hear about aclient once and then they go
okay, that's it.
Yep, that client's done.
When you're a broker, youalmost move into that accounting
, financial planning space,because you have to manage the
book Particularly as an assetbroker.
Especially with asset broker,because asset broker is all
(04:55):
about business and when it comesto business, you need to make
sure and you need to ensure thatif you're selecting the correct
product for one of your clients, they're able to grow their
business.
We don't want to impact theircash flow that's where you guys
come in Exactly but we also wantto make sure that they're able
to grow in the long run.
So I think a little tidbit ofadvice and why I said if you're
a broker, you need to listen tothis episode Ray and Melissa
(05:17):
create relationships andmaintain those relationships and
the values that they bring tothe table.
Because when you have thosetypes of things, that's what
makes you a longstanding broker,as opposed to somebody that
just relies on transactions.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Can I just say, like, for me, the transition and you
know there's been a lot ofchanges in industry over the
last, you know, 30 years and theone thing that has traveled
with me from day one to now andwill travel with me forever, is
transactions, are transactionsand you know, even back in the
90s, anyone can buy anythingfrom anywhere, but what people
(05:52):
buy are an emotion and a feelingand a genuine authenticity.
And if you can do that, and doit with all your heart, you will
always be successful and peoplewill follow you.
Like I've got clients I've beenwritten asset finance for a
long time, but I've still gotclients that I've had for over
25 years Like hey Mel, I need anew Ferrari or I need a new
Porsche, I need a new boat or Ineed a new, whatever it might be
(06:15):
.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Where do I go?
But?
Speaker 3 (06:16):
they're the kind of clients that I used to deal with
because I worked in luxury.
I was very lucky from a veryyoung age and I've seen a lot of
colourful things and you know,compliance wasn't a thing back
then, so assessing those thingswas much easier.
But they'll, they'll throw me ago.
You know where do I go?
Cause now compliance is sotight is they want to go where
they know it will work, where itwill fit and who's going to
look after them in a reallygenuine way.
(06:37):
But again, it all.
Everything circles back torelationships everything.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
So how do you continue to level up the
individuals within Riker?
Sometimes, you know, you seepeople.
They're just trying to get astatement of position or a
statement of attainment over theline, but it might not be
ethical.
I'm just, I'm, I'm.
I'm just talking about previousexperience and what I've seen
in other shops, you know.
So how do you continue toenforce those values?
Speaker 2 (07:04):
So I think you start from a very grassroots level of
what the client's about.
You want to understand theirrelationship with money and and
the relationship with money foreach individual client is very
different.
I'm like we've had clients crybecause obviously they're going
to be sort of asked thosepersonal questions to them what
money means to you.
They don't know how toarticulate that yeah and that's
astonishing sometimes becausethey go, they feel like they're
(07:25):
sort know how to articulate that.
Yeah, and that's astonishingsometimes because they go they
feel like they've sort ofthey've lost that time, They've
lost that way of how to managemoney because no one's sort of
educated them and it's alwaysbeen about transaction after
transaction and that's not whatwe were about.
So we would sort of really gofrom the grassroots level to
sort of go let's understand whatare you trying to do, what are
you trying to achieve with money, and then we can sort of build
on what you're trying to do andwhat tax strategies we can look
at.
What is the investments youwant to buy?
(07:47):
You want to buy threeproperties, four properties.
What does that look like?
Is it even attainable?
And then once we sort of buildout a bit of a roadmap along
that side, that's where thetrust comes from.
It's not about just goinghere's a paper, here's a
transaction.
Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
But one of the things the team do really well is it's
not literally about just atransaction.
The team do work on cashflowand budget, whether you be an
individual or a business.
So it's not just about what isit that you want to achieve.
It's like how can we achieve it?
Is it in your realm ofaffordability?
Let's have a look at it and howdo we budget for that to
achieve it?
If it is there, and if it's not, what do we need to do to help
(08:21):
you strategize to potentiallyachieve that?
Speaker 2 (08:23):
and the team do that really well and it's not like
we're trying to put them on adiet here or the financial diet,
but you know.
But sometimes that conversationneeds to be had a little comes
down to the relationship withmoney right it does badly do
they want to achieve what dietdo?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
that is, if you use the analogy of a diet there's a
keto diet, there's a.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
You know calorie deficit, exactly like there's
all different kinds.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
What diet do you want what?
What works in your world?
Speaker 1 (08:48):
yeah and let's create it yeah over the last five
years in particular, I'venoticed an addiction to mobile
phones, and there's a reason whyI'm bringing this up.
Every single time I'm oninstagram, once I view three or
four stories, I get hit with anad.
I get hit with a hundred dollarad or you should buy my ebook,
or you should buy, uh, you know,this accessory for my ipad, or
you should buy this, or youshould buy that.
(09:08):
So for someone like myself,okay, who has battled adhd their
whole life uh, thankfully, youknow, thanks to meditation and
stuff, I've been able to get outof the control.
How do you assist thoseindividuals and how do you help
them get back on track?
Because people are just gettingoverly exposed to spending all
the time.
We're in the largest amount ofdebt we've ever been as
(09:30):
individuals in Australia.
So how do you help people?
How do you guide them back ontothe path?
Is it a phone call?
Is it a text message, email?
What do we do?
Speaker 2 (09:38):
So I think you start to learn from the spending
practices to go what they'respending on and, I think, what
information they're soaking intheir head, and sometimes it's
about unwinding that informationand then rewiring it to go well
, look, I think let's just goback to the basics here.
What is debit?
What is credit?
What is it coming in?
What are we spending out?
Speaker 3 (09:56):
here and sometimes and what do you want to achieve,
though?
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Exactly.
But also it's what is yourbudget telling you, what is your
cash flow telling you here, andsometimes there's a moment of
realisation to go oh, I'mspending more than I actually.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Yeah, but for some people it's also going.
I don't want to change how I'mspending.
I'm very comfortable with whatI'm doing, but with what I do
have left over as my surplus,what can I achieve?
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah, but I think there's got to be then choices
conversation to go.
What is your priority?
Speaker 3 (10:18):
That's exactly right.
Yeah, yeah, and there's no onesize fits all.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
No, and I think different people have different
priorities and you sort of youwork with that.
Yeah, and you will try to sortof make their goals and tax
position achieve based on whatthey're after.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
I like that a lot.
It's making sure that you'refitting around them, but also
pushing them towards their goals.
I'm an all or nothing person.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
And I think you guys have realised this.
You've this, you've definitelyrealized this.
Really, I'm really shocked thatyou say that I look at you and
I feel like you're a little bittimid.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
No, yeah, completely timid person over here.
No, so I, I am all or nothing,you know, it's.
Uh, I go all in and I getexcited.
And when somebody says to methis is your diet, you know, I'm
on the diet, that's it, let'sgo, but how sustainable is it
when you're all in, that's?
the thing.
I'm not going to comment onthat one, but but it's for the
average.
I don't even want to sayaverage for the everyday
(11:08):
individual.
You know it's.
I see what you guys are saying,and maybe myself, maybe I do
have the discipline to go on acrash diet or something like
that.
How do we guide people back onthat sort of thing, like do you
know what I'm?
Speaker 3 (11:21):
saying, yeah, no, I do.
And look if I could speak forRay and you know, have a
different opinion, absolutely.
But when I listen to Ray say allthe things that he says and I
listen to the team do the thingsthat they do, I think there are
two parts is there's guidingand there's also listening.
So one part is, firstly, listento your client, understand
their mindset, their strengthsand their weaknesses, and you
(11:41):
know, when you're guidingsomeone, there's no point
guiding someone into somethingyou know that they will not do
or is not sustainable, becauseyou're setting them up for
failure and not success, andthat's not what we're about.
So I think it's, you know,putting people on that
trajectory.
That you know is in the realmof you know, again, circling
back to Ray's comment before thediet that they can sustain and
(12:06):
sometimes with those people,when you put people on a diet,
you can push them that littlebit more and they'll jump on
because it's that mindset andthat rewiring.
But it's almost the team arealmost like counsellors as well.
You know it's rewiring the waythey think and that's a journey,
it's not a one conversation.
Definitely not, and it's not ina day, and we have team members
in our team that their roleevery year and I love that we do
this their role is purely andI'll use the word compliance,
(12:29):
but every year, their one job isto reach out to every client on
the annualized basis of this isthe journey we set you on for
the last 12 months.
How's that going?
Let's look at the numbers.
Let's look at your budget.
Look at your cash flow.
What do we need to?
What do we need to fix?
What do we need to change?
What do we need to reassess sothat everything that we do for
that client is current and validand in their best interest for
(12:51):
tomorrow?
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, but it's also, Mel, a good point.
It's the accountability piece,and I think what needs to happen
in that position is almost likebefore.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
I went on diet.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
After I went on diet.
So, what does thattransformation look like for me
from?
A financial health perspective.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
And how do I feel?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yes, I've got to have a reward mechanism.
Because I can't consistently beon diet.
I need a bit of a reward to saygoing great job here's my
chocolate.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
I absolutely love that.
Yeah, and like, how exciting isit when you put someone on a?
Speaker 3 (13:23):
path and you go.
Okay, in 12 months, prior to 12months, your your projected
growth on whatever it was thatyou were working on was five
thousand dollars for the year,as an example, and this year,
with that new diet, you've nowgot, instead of five thousand
dollars in year two, you've gottwelve thousand dollars that
you've earned this year.
It's like when you lose thatfive kilos or you gain that
(13:43):
muscle mass or whatever it isthat your diet wants you to
achieve, you're like, yes, yousee the wins and you feed off
those wins.
You do.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
And I think I can give you a bit of a case study
on that.
I mean, like we've had a couplewho would earn really good
income.
Well, when I say income, theyearned about $120,000 each.
The couple combined they werepaying about $68,000 in taxes.
So we looked at the wholeholistic position of what they
had.
They wanted to pay theirmortgage a little bit faster,
they wanted to acquire a littlebit on the superannuation side.
(14:15):
So when we sort of looked up abit of a catch-up contribution
strategy, what we would do is golook, instead of you sort of
salary sacrificing and lettinggo all of that, let's have all
of that money come into youroffset account and every May,
june, we utilize that $10,000,$15,000 to throw that in your
super fund because you want tobuild that up faster and when
you do your tax return, we'regoing to claim that $15,000 as a
tax deduction.
(14:35):
So now that each individual wasgetting about $4,500, $5,000
each as a refund, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
That's the sort of stuff that people need to know
why they need to go see afinancial planner, and we spoke
off camera about this.
You know whether you need to bewealthy or you could be an
everyday person to speak to afinancial planner.
And the reason I bring that upis that's $4,500 that has come
back as a tax refund that isusable each.
So that's four and a halfthousand dollars that has come
(15:01):
back as a tax refund that isusable each, so that's nine
thousand dollars each now andyou compound that for the next
20 years.
That's magical correct and thenyou reinvest that I'm not even
thinking about compounding, I'mnot even thinking about that.
I'm thinking that somebody'sgrocery bills for the year, yeah
, yeah, because the cost ofliving has gone up so high that
most individuals that are on asalary or they're not on a job,
that you is paying a highcommission or any bonuses or
(15:23):
anything like that they'reactually suffering, yeah, and
the reason I wanted to bringthat up is because most people
think that financial plannersare just for the wealthy.
They're not, no, and it's wildwhen you say that it is.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
I need to be fit before I go to the gym.
Yeah, I'm like no before I goto the gym.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Yeah, I'm like no, it's the opposite.
It's the opposite, yeah.
So I'm going to tell you mystory.
I love the fact that you guyskeep bringing up the gym.
I used to be 131 kilos, droppedit all, naturally.
One bodybuilding competitionhas got down to like 80 kilos
and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Congratulations.
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
But the reason I bring that up is because of the
discipline.
But I walked into the gym andwhen I was 131 kilos and people
were more happy that I was therethan upset that I was there,
I'm a rookie.
I couldn't bench five kilos, Icouldn't.
I could not lift myself off theground like that's how heavy I
was.
But people were so excited tohelp me out.
And I think that's the samewith the financial planner.
You know, if somebody comes toyou and I think you, I could,
especially like I see it in yourface and you've been doing this
(16:24):
for how long, ray.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
I've been in financial service for almost 21
years now, so for 21 years.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
For somebody to be in this industry for 21 years and
still display that level ofexcitement and that smile to
help someone the individual isthe best thing in the world.
And now let me go back to myquestion.
I'll talk a massive roundabouton that one.
That's all right, someone being, you know they don't need to be
wealthy.
We've said, as you said, you gointo the gym.
(16:50):
You know you don't need to befit to go into a gym, you don't
need to be in particular shape,you just need to go to get
started.
You just need to start.
Now I want to talk about aparticular case study that you
guys have, and that was about asingle mom.
Yeah, and the reason I'mbringing up the single mom is
because the divorce rate in thiscountry is higher than it's
ever been.
Okay, there are a lot of peoplethat don't have the fiscal
(17:13):
knowledge to be able to assistthemselves.
Yeah, we have unfortunatelywe're not going to start the
arguments yet a government thatdoesn't know how to support the
individuals out there.
So how has a financial plannergone and assisted a single mum
with just two boys or two kidssorry, two kids be able to wipe
(17:33):
out 13 years from their mortgageand save on their taxes at the
same time?
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Do you want me to do this one?
I'll let you do that one.
So, look, I'll preface with thisparticular case study really
resonates with me and you hit onsome of those things a moment
ago which is I was raised by asingle mum and I was raised
uneducated about financialservices, as was my mum.
You know, we lived week to week, we lived in a housing
(17:58):
commission and you know, evenfor my mum now to this day, she
lives week to week and it's astruggle To hear that we have a
team of advisors at Riker thatlook after everything, from the
example we're about to talkabout right through to your
ultra high net worth clients andthe fact that this particular
case study for us as a group, wecelebrated it.
It really rings true thatyou're in the right place in the
(18:19):
right environment and basicallywhat it is is one of our
advisors, dean, he had thislovely lady come to him going.
I'm in my mid forties, I have amortgage, I have two kids, I'm
a single mom, I have an averageincome.
I'm never not going to be ableto stop working and I'm never
going to be able to finish offthis debt, and God forbid
anything happens to me.
I've been paying off this debtforever and I've got nothing to
(18:41):
leave to my kids.
I'm not protected in any waythat they have something should
something happen to me.
So Dean sat down with her andhe had a look at it.
And you know you talk.
You know we come from the worldof brokers.
We talk about money-makingexercises.
This was not a money-makingexercise and that's okay,
because it's good to give backand it's good to understand that
things that are good for otherpeople are good for everybody.
(19:04):
So what he did for her is he.
You know he can't change hersalary, he can't change her
investment portfolio.
She doesn't have any of that.
So it's about looking at herworld, how it's fixated and how
does he make it the best that hecan be.
And what he did is he wentthrough her cashflow.
He went through her income.
He went through her budget,gave her a diet that she can
sustain.
She now will have a mortgage.
(19:25):
That way she was like I'm nevergoing to end this debt.
She will have it paid off in 13years within the budget that
she can do.
He reworked her super and thestrategy investment in that
super that her super balancewill increase to retirement age
by.
I think it was about $190,000.
She doesn't have money to throwaround.
It's just adjusting it.
And also, you know her taxsaving each year is $1,000, but
(19:50):
that's $1,000 for a single mom.
That's a little weekend awaywith her kids, it's whatever it
might be.
So and also he set up herinsurance.
So now that she's protected andit's an insurance that she can
afford.
So for us as a team, outside ofthe big examples, we can tell
you where we created someone'swealth over millions of dollars
and bits and pieces.
We have a million of thoseexamples as well.
(20:11):
This for us as a team.
You know a lot of us come fromfamilies where they've moved
abroad.
We've come with nothing, singlemums.
We all have little stories totell where, if I look at our
team, all of us have generatedfrom families where we've come
from very little and to do thoselittle wins that for this
particular mum she was in tearsLike it's a big win.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
It really resonates with us and it's the reason that
we do what we do.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
You know, like there's big successes and little
successes, those littlesuccesses are sometimes the most
rewarding.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
And I think it was powerful that Dean used some of
the strategic strategies forcompounding that work both
against you as well as for you.
So just recognising those keycomponents where it's working
against you and for you, andthen how do you sort of
collaborate a strategy on those?
Yeah, that's quite powerful inthat example.
Sorry, I just no, don't saysorry, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
And the thing is I'll use this example for years to
come.
And you know, like in my career, there are different stories
that I have and I use them overand over and over, and it's it's
not because they're powerful toto tell a story.
They're powerful becausethey're real emotions, they're
real people and they're genuineoutcomes.
You know, and as you said, youknow, we we have a government
that is not necessarily lookingafter the people with low
incomes.
Well, it's nice that we can dothat.
(21:24):
And then you know it's circlingback to what you're saying is
there is a big conception thator perception is the right word
that you have to be wealthy tohave financial planning or
financial advice or a strategy.
Two things One is if I wouldchat with brokers and they're
like oh really nice to meet, you, love what you do.
When I've got someone to referto you, I'll give you a call.
It's like how does that work?
(21:45):
I actually said to one broker Igo explain that to me.
What do you mean by when you'vegot someone to refer you or
refer?
And they're like well, when Isee an opportunity, I'm like how
many loans do you settle amonth?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Because all four clients have super paying taxes
Right?
It bewilders me.
They have insurances.
Now you either choose to lookafter that or someone else will
it genuinely bewilders me.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Yeah, and I'm like the consultation is free, right,
and that's the first part.
Most brokers don't realize Tohave advice from us from a first
point of consultation.
It's complimentary, and wereally do understand that for
clients.
People get scared to have aconsultation because they think,
firstly, what is that going tocost?
But when they then have thatconsultation and realize this is
(22:30):
the potential reward thatyou're going to get out of it,
so it's not what the advice willcost you, it's what is it going
to give you back.
And you've got so many examples, ray, where someone might pay
$2,000 for an SOA but the rewardon that is $10,000.
What makes more sense?
Speaker 1 (22:48):
I'm hearing everything that you're saying,
but the thing that I loved themost was the four opportunities.
You set a four class, that'sfour opportunities right there,
and the reason I say that waswhen I left high school, I got
three speeding fines.
Okay, I didn't want my parentsto find out and I wasn't earning
much money.
I was working a footlocker, andthat was it.
I walked into CBA and I've gota credit card.
(23:08):
Okay, I've got a credit cardand, mind you, I'm still the 131
kilo kid right there.
Okay, so I've got a credit card.
They gave me a $5,000 limitwithout knowing anything.
They go yeah, here you go.
And then I've spent the moneyand then, all of a sudden,
minimum repayment was like 21bucks, something like that.
I go yeah, that's fine, that'sfine, that's fine, yeah, the
unrealized expense on that iscraziness so I ended up owing
(23:30):
like seven thousand dollarstowards the end, you know, and
just by having that and thengoing over my limit and all
those types of things thatreally affected me, yeah, and
then once I started limit andall those types of things that
really affected me, and thenonce I started to get a little
bit more finance acumen andeverything, that's when I
started to realise hold up asecond, why aren't we teaching
this in school?
(23:50):
Why aren't we teaching this toindividuals?
Why aren't we?
You know, programming kids,what you know?
This is my favourite thing Likewhy are we learning about
geology when I'm telling you now, kids out there, they're never
going to look at a rock and say,oh, it's this or it's that, but
every single person, at onepoint in their life, is going to
have a credit card, they'regoing to have a charge card,
they're going to have some sortof debt.
(24:11):
They're going to have super.
Yeah, they're going to havesuper.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
They're going to have some sort of debt.
They're going to be a broker.
Tell him to come what?
So what was that anyway?
He probably does.
He keeps like all I wanted todo is make money.
But this year he did commercein year nine and he elected to
do.
Just for clarity, there's a 200hour course.
It's very different to when wewent to school and talk about
(24:35):
units now.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
It's 200 hours um what they do work from home at
school as well now.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
But but they've got 200 hours, which is over year 9
or 10, where you can choose 100.
So he did the 100 just in year9, but now he can't do commerce
in year 10.
His school have introduced andthey're launching it next year a
course that's sort of like abranch off from commerce, and we
were looking at his electivesthe other day and we've really
leaned on him to do this andit's how to get a loan how to do
(25:02):
a budget.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
You're joking.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
How to open a bank account.
What does tax mean?
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
When you get a credit card, what does it really mean
and what does it cost?
Like all of these differentthings, superannuation, and it's
real-life.
Advice, advice and experiencelike not experiences, but
learnings.
Around you're in year.
What does a mortgage look like?
(25:27):
What can you afford?
And I was like, how amazing isthis?
And the head of commerce rangme and said, mel, you know, I'd
really love it if your son didthis course.
I think you do really well atit.
So I'm like yes.
Well, he's been around it allhis life, so well, this is the
thing, and I said this isprobably one subject I can
actually help you study withWoodwork.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I can't help you with I do want to touch on something
about I love that.
I do want to touch on somethingabout investment properties.
Now, as a mortgage broker, thisis one thing that quickly, or
you know, all the mortgagecalculators have, and there's a
section called negative gearing,and because something is an
investment property and there'snegative gearing involved.
(26:06):
All of a sudden, somebody canafford a mortgage.
All of a sudden, oh yep, it'san investment loan.
Now the reason I bring that upis most people don't understand
that just because something'snegatively geared doesn't mean
you don't have to pay for it upfront with your cash flow
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
It's such a misconception out there, for
that part.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yeah.
So the reason I bring this upis when you're discussing these
things with your clients and, aswe talked about before, you
know it's not always for thewealthy, it's for the everyday
individual Are you outliningthose things?
Hey, just so you know, justbecause it can be negative
geared and you can get thatmoney back at the end, that
doesn't mean you don't have tocome up with the money up front.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Correct, are we having those conversations?
Investment strategies forproperty are not for everybody,
because they're not necessarilyaffordable, because negative
gearing still has to be serviced.
Correct and not?
Speaker 2 (26:50):
only that ultimately you have to pay that debt down,
because you're really losing thecapital value on that property
if you just keep paying interest, because what you're really
hoping for is a capital gain.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Ultimately, yeah, and that capital gain has been
eaten away by all the holdingcosts, which is interest rates,
agents' fees, insurances, sothat all compounding factor
comes into play 100%, and I lovethat you raised it, because I
was actually having aconversation with someone about
this just this morning and I wasthinking, oh, I should have
spoken to Joe about this andspoken about it for today.
(27:19):
So it's, we're in tune.
There we go.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
We're properly in line.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
That's it exactly.
Yeah, but it's a real thing youknow, and we spoke about this
just recently in one of ourpodcasts where if someone has an
$80,000 salary and wants to getan investment portfolio, that's
great.
Let's work on that.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
What's your post-tax income?
How much is going tosuperannuation?
How much are you spending onyour credit cards?
Are you actually spending $200a week on groceries, or is it
actually $400-something?
Speaker 3 (27:44):
a week.
But what stress are you puttingon yourself to have that
investment portfolio?
Is it sustainable?
Speaker 1 (27:49):
100%.
I do want to touch on somethingnow, because as financial
planners, you're often planningfor the future.
The accountants are oftenreconciling in the past.
Now I do want to note a lot oflisteners don't actually know
the difference, because you havea lot of accountants that
advertise themselves as advisorsas well, but most of the time
they're just trying to reconcilewhat has occurred in the last
(28:11):
12 months.
So could you provide adefinition as to the difference
between financial planning andaccounting for our listeners?
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Okay, so, from being an accountant, essentially what
we did was we looked at thereview.
What I mean by that is welooked at what you've done the
last 12 months, because you'vecome to me in August, september
now you're on a tax return.
But essentially what I'mlooking at is your past, of what
you have done, what you havespent on, what you have earned.
And I'm going to go right nowlet's pay Anthony Albanese this
(28:39):
amount.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Oh, man, why are you guys trying to rev me up?
We're trying, it's not working.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Oh no, I did like a 45-minute meditation session
before this.
But yes, sorry Joe, no, it'sokay, it's okay.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
From a financial planner perspective, what it's
about is going and previously,when I was an accountant, I
couldn't talk about that becauseI wasn't licensed exactly to go
.
Well, no, let's have a look atthis strategy.
Let's look at the you know, thefive years, the 10 years, the
15 years.
I've had clients who werereally good at making but worse
at keeping it and even worse atmanaging it.
So for me it was like it's wildthat I can't speak about it.
(29:13):
But how do I go about talkingabout it?
So hence the financial planningpart.
So financial planning allowedme to sort of then go right,
let's look at the fast-forwardstrategies as to what we're
going to be thinking about intwo years' time, five years'
time, a decade, and what doesthat look like?
So advice is all about futureplanning.
Accounting is like so.
(29:33):
So advice is all about futureplanning.
Accounting is sometimes alsothere can be a business advisory
part to it which can come intoplay.
But accountants purely lookafter the tax and lodgement of
tax and management of tax.
Advisor purely planners.
Uh, they structure out yourinvestments, your portfolios,
what works, what doesn't work.
Um, as an example, I'm like ifI've got bhp shares in my super
fund, I'm hoping that BHP isgoing to take me to retirement.
That's the wrong misconception.
(29:54):
You've got to look at how youinvest it.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
And at risk of upsetting the apple cart and
offending anyone and disclaimermy husband's an accountant, so
he's a very good accountant atthat.
We've worked in finance forever.
Okay, how many clients do weknow that have taken their
accountant's advice and theirbusiness have gone bust because
it was not the right advice?
Speaker 1 (30:13):
I believe the fifth.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Right, but it's just, we've got so many you know you
hear them go.
My accountant told me to dothis.
My accountant told me to dothat and you know it's a trusted
relationship and I'm sure thataccountant did it with good
intentions.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
But walking out of your square that you're not
licensed, authorised, accreditedor equipped to do.
Lean in on the other peoplethat are around you.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
One thing I want to bring up the reason why people
need financial planners andaccountants.
For that matter, everybodyneeds an accountant.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
It's a collaboration.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
It's a collaboration.
But one thing I do want to say,and I'm going to make you two
laugh in a second please don'task your broker about the advice
for your tax structures or howyou should set up a business.
We are here to help you borrowmoney.
After we get the advice fromthese lovely individuals not
myself do not come to me and say, hey, should I go trust,
co-create, unit trust and starttrading, and I'm like, no, no,
no, wrong person, no, no, youdon't.
(31:07):
You don't come to us.
My biggest issue with thebroking industry right now is
you can get your certificates ina day.
You're on board with AFCA, youregister with one of the bodies
You're a broker in two weeks.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Someone told me the other day they became a broker
in two hours.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Yeah, I believe it because there's so much access
to quickly to become one anduniversity for five years, five
years, five years.
University for University forfive years, five years, five
years.
University for I went for twoand a half, but you were
studying law, correct, if youdid want to complete your degree
.
It was four years at the time.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Yeah you had a year at the bar or a year at law
school and then you had thethree years of placement, which
means you were then stilllearning as an advisor to go
well, how do you manage it?
Perfect.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Perfect examples.
Okay is for a broker.
It's a one-day course now andyou can handle tax file numbers,
passports, driver's licenses,tax returns Like there's so much
sensitive data that people haveaccess to.
As brokers and I've said thistime and time again People are
like there's too much compliancein broking.
I think there needs to be more.
Like I know it's such a left offield thing, but I'm saying
(32:09):
this from the position of I haveseen so many people come to the
industry and just say, oh, am Isupposed to do?
I need cybersecurity and dataprotection, yeah, and I'm like,
I'm like I'm going to jump offthe balcony, like that's it.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
And if it makes you feel any better.
It's been like that for such along time.
So I'd say two parts to that.
One is when I was in finance,when I worked at BMW.
I still remember, like backthen, two things.
You know, auto was a dirty wordand brokers was even a dirtier
word, so compliance was loose.
Nobody wanted to go to a broker.
You either went to your bankwhere you were trusted you know
(32:45):
ex-accountants and things likethat and you know it was just so
much harder to be in that space.
And you know the brokerindustry back then was very few
and far between and now it's alarge space and good for that,
because brokers the reason forbrokers is it's a great purpose,
it's the largest capacity oflending in any space and we do a
(33:05):
great job.
But I do think there definitelyneeds to be tighter rules
around your ability to accesspeople's information and what
you do with that information andhow you provide that advice.
But I feel like we are movingin that space better with the
mentoring and the two-yearrequirement of somebody looking
over you.
But again, you know you'reright, it can be tighter.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Guys, we have so many changes happening in the
australian federal governmentand the ones that are impacting
both productivity as well as taxand financial planning advice.
I bring this up to you guysbecause I want to know how these
changes are going to affectpeople in the long run.
How does a financial plannerand a good accountant help you?
How, how does a good group ofplanners, accountants, brokers
(33:54):
and I am shameless plug rightthere.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
No, it's a triangular collaboration.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
But how does that protect you from these future
changes?
Speaker 2 (34:03):
I think you start to strategise a lot earlier on,
because you know what the billsare going to be proposed and
what's likely to go ahead.
So, we don't want to jumpnecessarily the gun either in
terms of the strategy, becauseif not, you'll just make
yourself worse as soon as thebills are passed.
At least what you've done isyou've got a plan in place that,
should an event occur like that, how are we going to tactically
strategise an asset?
(34:24):
I mean, like for one of ourclients, they've got $4.5
million in superannuation asset.
Now, point five million dollarsin superannuation asset.
Now what we're going to beutilizing is is a structural
investment bonds.
Now what is the investmentbonds does is we've taken out
that superannuation asset andwe've had that in investment
bonds, which means whatever he'searned in the next 10 years
completely tax-free yeah I'vegot to give you a phone call
after this.
(34:45):
All right, there's so manydifferent strategies that you
can align yourself to go.
Okay, if this is the rulethat's going to change, we're
going to pivot this way or we'regoing to pivot that way.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
And if I say it from more of a layman point of view,
because you know Ray's lens isdefinitely from the advice point
, Mine is from the person on thesubject of all of this stuff is
it's the realisation that youneed a good broker so that you
have access to the right loans,the right rates, the right
policies, all that bits.
You need a good accountant thatis optimizing all the right
(35:16):
taxes in the right areas and theclaim abilities, but you need a
really good financial advisorthat you have those annual
reviews because you know.
It's like a someone saying Idon't need a lawyer because I
understand the law but you don'tunderstand the intricacies of
it.
You don't need.
If you need heart surgery, Idon't need heart surgery.
I know my heart beats Like.
You need a financial advisornow because, while you might
(35:36):
understand your finances to someextent especially the way the
government moves, policies move,shifts, move all of it as an
advisor your niche isunderstanding the deeper
intricacies of you know what thepropositions are, what the
future might be, deeperintricacies of what the
propositions are, what thefuture might be and that whole
triangular relationship is thatecosystem is required, I think,
(35:56):
more than ever, because what wecan control is how we manage it,
how we look forward, but whatwe can't control is policy
shifts and changes.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah, but it's also.
They're all individual.
So you've got your personal taxlaw, you've got your
superannuation tax law, you'vegot the investment structure.
So what are you trying to donow?
Personal tax law, you've gotyour superannuation tax law,
you've got the investmentstructure.
So what are you trying to donow?
Pivot from different places towork around, to go well, what is
the best scenario that's goingto fit for my client from a
superannuation tax lawperspective, from a personal tax
law, and what investment I cansort of circle around to make
sure that I don't payinheritance tax or a oh no no,
(36:27):
no, no, true.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
It's like understanding how do you build
for that retirement plan in adifferent, clever, strategic way
that gets you the most and youpay the least, yeah, and that
constantly changes.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Yeah, I can use an example for that.
Just only a couple of weeks agoI helped my clients who they've
got roughly around half amillion dollars each in
superannuation side.
Now, inside superannuation,what they call is a taxable
component and a tax-freecomponent.
So a taxable tax component iswhere the kids, if they were to
inherit that money, win theirpay tax.
So what we did for them, giventheir age, we did a strategy
(37:02):
called a cash out andre-contribute.
Now we had to obviously look atwhat was allowed for them in
terms of the ATO rules.
We cashed out the super fundand put it back in, so what that
allowed was the entirety of thetaxable component now became
tax-free.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
You put it back into their-.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Into their own super fund.
So we took it out of the superfund and put it back inside the
super fund.
Now that's treated as what theycall a non-concessional.
Now, in saying that when theirkids inherit that money which is
up to 360, 360, they've savedover $300,000 in debt taxes.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
See.
So, Look at both of us.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Both of us are going okay, this is why I keep saying
to people don't go to yourbroker for financial planning
advice, okay.
Final question Sure, how isyour group supporting more
brokers out there?
Because I see you guys at everysingle event.
(37:55):
I see you guys at the MFAA, atthe FBAAA, I see you guys at,
you know, the large gala days,everything.
So how are we supporting morebrokers and how can these
brokers find you or reach out toyou?
Speaker 3 (38:06):
You go Ray Okay.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
So how are we supporting brokers?
I mean, like most of thebrokers want to do the right
thing and they go Ray, we justdon't want to step into
something and say somethingwrong where I put my client in a
worse position.
And every broker is about thatand I love that part.
Most of the clients I talk toabout SMSF they're becoming more
and more popular they go butlook, I don't know much about it
, but if I say somethingincorrectly I've set them up for
(38:29):
the wrong part of the tax.
If I say, go buy a property, ina company name.
The company has no CGT exemption.
I don't want to say that and Imight sort of set my client up
in the wrong way.
So the good thing is there'snow awareness starting to build
up as to what we do and how weadd value.
So we're starting to educatebrokers on why is it important
to sort of re-look at taxstrategies.
(38:49):
Because if their goal is to buya second property, how do we
best position them now to getthem to that second home or
third home or fourth home?
What is the tax strategyinvolved?
What is the cash flow shouldlook like?
So when the client walks awayout of that meeting, they go
right, I've got a clear pathwayon what I need to do.
My goal is to buy second, third, fourth property.
So that's one part.
Second part is how do we ensurethat there is a safety net for
(39:10):
me should something goes wrong?
That safety net, maybe in theform of the insurance, will
catch me so the bank doesn'tcome and encumber my assets.
Yep.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
Yeah, so I think also too, though, that, like the
thing to probably note is howare we supporting brokers?
It's also around education forthem, and I think you sort of
hit the nail on the head earlier.
A lot of brokers sort of thinkof financial advisors purely for
insurance or super orretirement plan.
There are so many other things.
It could be a divorce, as youmentioned earlier.
It's you've had more children,it's you've just acquired your
(39:39):
first mortgage.
How do you strategize for that?
It could be for the cashflow.
So it's also asked how are wesupporting brokers?
It's that education around.
There are not two or threeareas that we specialise in.
There's probably 20 differenttrigger points that are outside
of just the.
I settled a loan that you wouldgo.
You probably should speak to anadvisor to work on that,
(40:02):
whatever it might be.
So I think that's a really keything to note.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
And trying to create an ecosystem for that client,
because that client comes to yougoing well, you have got a
wealth of knowledge to thebroker and they'll ask those
questions but we want to be thatsupporting ecosystem for that
broker and the client's so sohappy walking away going.
I came in with that part.
I got help with every otherpart that I was looking for
because I had to go somewhereelse to look for those services
(40:26):
anyway so one thing I want tobring up as a final sign-off for
brokers, the riskiest thing isa client leaving because
clawback.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Clawback will always affect a broker's back pocket.
That's their upfront commissionand their trial book, the
sizability of it.
So, by working with a financialplanner, what ends up happening
?
Well, it's not so much there'sno clawback, it's you're
creating an ecosystem wherethey're not going to be leaving
you because you're not acting.
As I said previously,transactional.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
And I'm glad that you said that.
Yeah, because if you thinkabout it and you're a broker,
you get this right.
The majority of your clients asa broker.
Your lifespan with that clientis three to four years.
Yeah, that's not happening here,no but, like as in, not every
client buys investments, notevery client like a lot of them,
(41:18):
you know, whilst you keep thatrelationship and there might be
a refinance or referral, but thereality is a lot of people have
one home.
A lot of people buy one carevery three to four years, or
some people buy one car every 10years.
So your ability to engage withthem as a broker there are
limitations for some of thoseclients when with us, whereas
(41:39):
and it's also about thatecosystem, as Ray has mentioned
is we are building an ecosystemwhere there is an annualized
requirement and want for us toengage with that client.
We're building on that, we'recircling it back to our broker
where it's obviously fits and itsuits, but that client is
always owned by that broker.
So that relationship with youfor them is also a different
kind of conversation, it's adifferent touch point, it's a
(41:59):
different trigger and it's abigger care factor.
But then, with that, one of thethings that I do love with the
team is, let's say, you send usyour sister, jo and we look
after her and the team.
I'm going to be a bit, you know, sales-like for a moment.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
No, no, no.
I love shameless plugs.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
It's all good this is one of the things that really
drew me to come work with thiscompany is you know their ethos,
their values and theirgenuineness of wanting to do the
things that they do.
And you look at that and yousee their NPS score sits at
roughly 4.8 and aboveconsistently.
And that's no easy feat infinancial planning Like it's not
an easy feat, it speaks volumes.
But the result of that is yousend us your sister, your
(42:39):
sister's Laura Laura has such agreat experience with Ray Ray's
shown her.
You know we circle back to thecase study we used of our lovely
client earlier.
You know that client.
She's going to tell three ofher friends and she's going to,
they're going to refer to us.
Now, statistically, that clientis not yours, that's ours.
(43:03):
But what we do at Riker is, ifyou could imagine, you're a
trunk and you're the root ofthat branch, of that tree.
Those clients that comereferring into us whenever we
have things that need circlingback into a lending space, come
to you.
They build on your ecosystemand we remunerate you on that.
So we're expanding Consistently.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
so upfront and ongoing.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
Yeah, whatever we do for that client, even though you
didn't refer that extendedclient, we still remunerate you
on it.
We want to build your ecosystem.
So there's two parts.
Is what we do with that?
Referral from Laura comes toyou anyway as well, and then
anything from a lending point ofview comes to you as well.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Comes back.
It's a boomerang.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
It's a full ecosystem that we're branching out that
you would never see.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
But we want to act as your second layer relationship
manager, more than anything else.
Absolutely, if the client'sabout to make some wild
decisions and about to go.
Well, look, I just spoke to mycousin who's a mortgage broker.
Oh right, no problems at all.
Whilst I'm here with Joe andI've just looked after you from
Joe's perspective, I think youmight want to give the courtesy
to Joe as well at the same timeand the client wants to do that.
It's just a matter of sometimesthere's just time for it
(44:17):
no-transcript.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
Understand, by talking to a different broker,
the impact that has on you.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Yeah, from a remuneration point of view, uh,
yeah a lot of clients do notunderstand that they don't
understand that, but the truthof the matter is you said
something and I started laughing.
Sorry, ray said something andhe goes.
I spoke to my broker, my cousinwho's a broker, and my head
exploded.
I'm like the amount of timesI've had to tell people, guys,
if somebody's at a barbecue withyou and just because they say
(44:46):
they can get your lower interestrate or something and your
broker has been in the game fora long time, just make sure
you're doing your due diligencebefore you go and jump and sign
a different statement of creditassistance.
Ray, Melissa, this has been waytoo much fun.
I need to get you guys on again.
Where can people find you?
Speaker 3 (45:04):
Well, we're usually at every event, as you
highlighted.
So you can find us at thebrightest yellow stand Actually
no, I won't say that, becausewe're transitioning our bright
colours, so watch the brandlinks that we're having.
But you'll find us at FBAA,you'll find us at MFAA.
We're online, yep.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
Your website Just reach out website.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
We've got a really great podcast guide.
Follow that on.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
you know the Wealth Guide podcast Sorry no
competition, but it's just ashameless plug.
It's all right, it's ashameless plug.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
We're on spotify.
We've got a youtube.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
You can find us on instagram linkedin everywhere
you can google us perfect andyou can google us and if you
need any help with your lending,you can reach us at
wwwitsimplecomau.
We promise, if you're already abroker, we're not going to
steal you away from rikercapital.
Okay, if you're sorry if you'realready a client at riker
capital, we are not going tosteal you away from Riker
Capital.
Okay, no, absolutely Sorry.
If you're already a client atRiker Capital, we are not going
(45:54):
to take you away from yourbroker.
And if you need any help,whether it's your investment
properties, you're purchasing anowner-occupied property, or
even if you need to borrow inyour SMSF I know I said it
before, but I still do it Reachout to us at wwwitsimplecomau.
As always, my name is JosephDalwood.
Thank you Ray, Thank you Joe,Thank you Melissa, Thank you Joe
, See you guys next time.
Most people think that financial planners are just
for the wealthy.
Speaker 3 (00:03):
No.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
And it's wild when you say that it's like I need to
be fit before I go to the gymno.
It's the opposite.
We've had clients cry becauseobviously when we sort of ask
those personal questions to themwhat money means to you they
don't know how to articulatethat.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
We have so many changes happening in the
Australian federal governmentand the ones that are impacting
both productivity as well as taxand financial planning advice.
How does a financial plannerand a good accountant protect
you from these future changes?
Welcome back to the FinanceShow with Joe.
As always, I am your host,joseph Dowd.
Today, we are joined by twopowerhouse guests Ray Regmi and
(00:39):
Melissa Vargas.
Ray is a senior financialadvisor with over 21 years
experience in the industry.
Melissa has spent over 32 yearsin the lending industry.
In this conversation, we'regoing to unpack a bunch why
Australia might not be asproductive as it was previously
and what the potential of anincrease in GSD could do to the
(00:59):
everyday Australian.
As always, guys, theinformation displayed in this
episode is general in nature andshould you need specific advice
for your personal situation,please speak to your financial
advisors.
Ray, melissa, thank you so muchfor coming on.
Thank you, joe.
Thank you for having us Excitedto be a part of it.
Wow, what an introduction.
I know We've got two greatpeople here, I want to introduce
(01:20):
.
Have you seen how I'm dressedtoday?
I've got Ray here, mate.
I've got Ray and I've gotyourself.
I've got to look the part.
I'm often in a basketballjersey and shorts.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I want to call you Mr Pachito.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Ray, I want to start with yourself.
You didn't start off initiallyas a financial planner.
Am I correct in saying?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
that.
Yeah, absolutely right, joe.
So when I first started out inmy career, I was always sort of
bogged down from my parents togo you've got to be a good
accountant, and I think it sortof was ingrained for my mum and
dad at that point to go I thinkyou need to study accounting,
yeah, you're going to do reallywell at it.
So like, okay, I'll give that ago.
So I did, and soon I university.
(02:06):
This is not for me, but whilst Ilove it look, don't get me
wrong I love numbers and I lovecreating tax strategies it just
wasn't my pathway.
I needed more um and and thatmade me sort of the realization
of, as financial planning wasevolving at the time, um, that
it's not just about investment,it's about creating a good
amount of tax strategies forgood clients and working out a
pathway forward so they're goingright.
(02:27):
This is what, how it's going tosort of work for me.
So that was my idea of it.
Yes, I was a spreadsheetprisoner prisoner for a little
bit I think I'm, uh, verysimilar to yourself.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
I studied economics and I don't think there's any
economist that hasn't spent 10hours behind their desk every
single day.
It's just spreadsheet,spreadsheet, spreadsheet.
This prediction, thatprediction, and I just go to
myself.
This isn't for me.
I like talking to people and Ilike creating solutions, so I
think that's why you and I gotalong straight away.
It was like a nice little hugat the MFAA.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
People have introduced me to you two as the
long-lost brothers, me and Ray,long-lost brothers.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
That is all.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
You're the younger version of Ray or Ray's the
younger version of you.
It depends on the day.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
That is nothing but a compliment.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Oh, I don't know about that.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
If people are saying that that is nothing but a
compliment.
So I will take it.
I don't take compliments.
Well, you can see me, I'mstarting to go red in the face
but I will, for our listeners.
I will accept that today,melissa, you've come from my
world.
You've actually come from theworld of lending.
Yes, I think 32 years workingin the lending space.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Yeah, I started when I was one Okay, I hope there's a
good lens on this camera.
So, basically, not dissimilarto Ray or very different to Ray,
but not dissimilar, where Istarted my degree in law and
realized very quickly that thiswas not for me.
I worked in a law firm while Iwas doing it and it was the most
horrendous experience.
(03:53):
I was like yep.
So I deferred for a year, endedup working in auto, started out
selling cars for a bit of fun.
A very wise, fun man said Mel,come and sell cars for the
summer.
And I'm like women don't sellcars, we're talking in the
nineties.
And he's like that's what willmake it fun.
So I sold cars and very quicklyI had an aptitude for finance
and I transitioned into financeand I worked in asset for a
(04:15):
really long time.
You know I worked at BMW for,you know, in varying capacities,
for close to 20 years of that,then transitioned into broker
and, yeah, into intopartnerships, because everything
that I've ever done has alwaysbeen about relationships.
So partnerships was a veryorganic thing for me to move
into do you know what I lovethat you mentioned partnerships?
Speaker 1 (04:33):
because many people work at the bank and they think
that being a broker istransactional, because they see
a client once, they hear about aclient once and then they go
okay, that's it.
Yep, that client's done.
When you're a broker, youalmost move into that accounting
, financial planning space,because you have to manage the
book Particularly as an assetbroker.
Especially with asset broker,because asset broker is all
(04:55):
about business and when it comesto business, you need to make
sure and you need to ensure thatif you're selecting the correct
product for one of your clients, they're able to grow their
business.
We don't want to impact theircash flow that's where you guys
come in Exactly but we also wantto make sure that they're able
to grow in the long run.
So I think a little tidbit ofadvice and why I said if you're
a broker, you need to listen tothis episode Ray and Melissa
(05:17):
create relationships andmaintain those relationships and
the values that they bring tothe table.
Because when you have thosetypes of things, that's what
makes you a longstanding broker,as opposed to somebody that
just relies on transactions.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Can I just say, like, for me, the transition and you
know there's been a lot ofchanges in industry over the
last, you know, 30 years and theone thing that has traveled
with me from day one to now andwill travel with me forever, is
transactions, are transactionsand you know, even back in the
90s, anyone can buy anythingfrom anywhere, but what people
(05:52):
buy are an emotion and a feelingand a genuine authenticity.
And if you can do that, and doit with all your heart, you will
always be successful and peoplewill follow you.
Like I've got clients I've beenwritten asset finance for a
long time, but I've still gotclients that I've had for over
25 years Like hey Mel, I need anew Ferrari or I need a new
Porsche, I need a new boat or Ineed a new, whatever it might be
(06:15):
.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Where do I go?
But?
Speaker 3 (06:16):
they're the kind of clients that I used to deal with
because I worked in luxury.
I was very lucky from a veryyoung age and I've seen a lot of
colourful things and you know,compliance wasn't a thing back
then, so assessing those thingswas much easier.
But they'll, they'll throw me ago.
You know where do I go?
Cause now compliance is sotight is they want to go where
they know it will work, where itwill fit and who's going to
look after them in a reallygenuine way.
(06:37):
But again, it all.
Everything circles back torelationships everything.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
So how do you continue to level up the
individuals within Riker?
Sometimes, you know, you seepeople.
They're just trying to get astatement of position or a
statement of attainment over theline, but it might not be
ethical.
I'm just, I'm, I'm.
I'm just talking about previousexperience and what I've seen
in other shops, you know.
So how do you continue toenforce those values?
Speaker 2 (07:04):
So I think you start from a very grassroots level of
what the client's about.
You want to understand theirrelationship with money and and
the relationship with money foreach individual client is very
different.
I'm like we've had clients crybecause obviously they're going
to be sort of asked thosepersonal questions to them what
money means to you.
They don't know how toarticulate that yeah and that's
astonishing sometimes becausethey go, they feel like they're
(07:25):
sort know how to articulate that.
Yeah, and that's astonishingsometimes because they go they
feel like they've sort ofthey've lost that time, They've
lost that way of how to managemoney because no one's sort of
educated them and it's alwaysbeen about transaction after
transaction and that's not whatwe were about.
So we would sort of really gofrom the grassroots level to
sort of go let's understand whatare you trying to do, what are
you trying to achieve with money, and then we can sort of build
on what you're trying to do andwhat tax strategies we can look
at.
What is the investments youwant to buy?
(07:47):
You want to buy threeproperties, four properties.
What does that look like?
Is it even attainable?
And then once we sort of buildout a bit of a roadmap along
that side, that's where thetrust comes from.
It's not about just goinghere's a paper, here's a
transaction.
Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
But one of the things the team do really well is it's
not literally about just atransaction.
The team do work on cashflowand budget, whether you be an
individual or a business.
So it's not just about what isit that you want to achieve.
It's like how can we achieve it?
Is it in your realm ofaffordability?
Let's have a look at it and howdo we budget for that to
achieve it?
If it is there, and if it's not, what do we need to do to help
(08:21):
you strategize to potentiallyachieve that?
Speaker 2 (08:23):
and the team do that really well and it's not like
we're trying to put them on adiet here or the financial diet,
but you know.
But sometimes that conversationneeds to be had a little comes
down to the relationship withmoney right it does badly do
they want to achieve what dietdo?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
that is, if you use the analogy of a diet there's a
keto diet, there's a.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
You know calorie deficit, exactly like there's
all different kinds.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
What diet do you want what?
What works in your world?
Speaker 1 (08:48):
yeah and let's create it yeah over the last five
years in particular, I'venoticed an addiction to mobile
phones, and there's a reason whyI'm bringing this up.
Every single time I'm oninstagram, once I view three or
four stories, I get hit with anad.
I get hit with a hundred dollarad or you should buy my ebook,
or you should buy, uh, you know,this accessory for my ipad, or
you should buy this, or youshould buy that.
(09:08):
So for someone like myself,okay, who has battled adhd their
whole life uh, thankfully, youknow, thanks to meditation and
stuff, I've been able to get outof the control.
How do you assist thoseindividuals and how do you help
them get back on track?
Because people are just gettingoverly exposed to spending all
the time.
We're in the largest amount ofdebt we've ever been as
(09:30):
individuals in Australia.
So how do you help people?
How do you guide them back ontothe path?
Is it a phone call?
Is it a text message, email?
What do we do?
Speaker 2 (09:38):
So I think you start to learn from the spending
practices to go what they'respending on and, I think, what
information they're soaking intheir head, and sometimes it's
about unwinding that informationand then rewiring it to go well
, look, I think let's just goback to the basics here.
What is debit?
What is credit?
What is it coming in?
What are we spending out?
Speaker 3 (09:56):
here and sometimes and what do you want to achieve,
though?
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Exactly.
But also it's what is yourbudget telling you, what is your
cash flow telling you here, andsometimes there's a moment of
realisation to go oh, I'mspending more than I actually.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Yeah, but for some people it's also going.
I don't want to change how I'mspending.
I'm very comfortable with whatI'm doing, but with what I do
have left over as my surplus,what can I achieve?
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah, but I think there's got to be then choices
conversation to go.
What is your priority?
Speaker 3 (10:18):
That's exactly right.
Yeah, yeah, and there's no onesize fits all.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
No, and I think different people have different
priorities and you sort of youwork with that.
Yeah, and you will try to sortof make their goals and tax
position achieve based on whatthey're after.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
I like that a lot.
It's making sure that you'refitting around them, but also
pushing them towards their goals.
I'm an all or nothing person.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
And I think you guys have realised this.
You've this, you've definitelyrealized this.
Really, I'm really shocked thatyou say that I look at you and
I feel like you're a little bittimid.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
No, yeah, completely timid person over here.
No, so I, I am all or nothing,you know, it's.
Uh, I go all in and I getexcited.
And when somebody says to methis is your diet, you know, I'm
on the diet, that's it, let'sgo, but how sustainable is it
when you're all in, that's?
the thing.
I'm not going to comment onthat one, but but it's for the
average.
I don't even want to sayaverage for the everyday
(11:08):
individual.
You know it's.
I see what you guys are saying,and maybe myself, maybe I do
have the discipline to go on acrash diet or something like
that.
How do we guide people back onthat sort of thing, like do you
know what I'm?
Speaker 3 (11:21):
saying, yeah, no, I do.
And look if I could speak forRay and you know, have a
different opinion, absolutely.
But when I listen to Ray say allthe things that he says and I
listen to the team do the thingsthat they do, I think there are
two parts is there's guidingand there's also listening.
So one part is, firstly, listento your client, understand
their mindset, their strengthsand their weaknesses, and you
(11:41):
know, when you're guidingsomeone, there's no point
guiding someone into somethingyou know that they will not do
or is not sustainable, becauseyou're setting them up for
failure and not success, andthat's not what we're about.
So I think it's, you know,putting people on that
trajectory.
That you know is in the realmof you know, again, circling
back to Ray's comment before thediet that they can sustain and
(12:06):
sometimes with those people,when you put people on a diet,
you can push them that littlebit more and they'll jump on
because it's that mindset andthat rewiring.
But it's almost the team arealmost like counsellors as well.
You know it's rewiring the waythey think and that's a journey,
it's not a one conversation.
Definitely not, and it's not ina day, and we have team members
in our team that their roleevery year and I love that we do
this their role is purely andI'll use the word compliance,
(12:29):
but every year, their one job isto reach out to every client on
the annualized basis of this isthe journey we set you on for
the last 12 months.
How's that going?
Let's look at the numbers.
Let's look at your budget.
Look at your cash flow.
What do we need to?
What do we need to fix?
What do we need to change?
What do we need to reassess sothat everything that we do for
that client is current and validand in their best interest for
(12:51):
tomorrow?
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, but it's also, Mel, a good point.
It's the accountability piece,and I think what needs to happen
in that position is almost likebefore.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
I went on diet.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
After I went on diet.
So, what does thattransformation look like for me
from?
A financial health perspective.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
And how do I feel?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yes, I've got to have a reward mechanism.
Because I can't consistently beon diet.
I need a bit of a reward to saygoing great job here's my
chocolate.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
I absolutely love that.
Yeah, and like, how exciting isit when you put someone on a?
Speaker 3 (13:23):
path and you go.
Okay, in 12 months, prior to 12months, your your projected
growth on whatever it was thatyou were working on was five
thousand dollars for the year,as an example, and this year,
with that new diet, you've nowgot, instead of five thousand
dollars in year two, you've gottwelve thousand dollars that
you've earned this year.
It's like when you lose thatfive kilos or you gain that
(13:43):
muscle mass or whatever it isthat your diet wants you to
achieve, you're like, yes, yousee the wins and you feed off
those wins.
You do.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
And I think I can give you a bit of a case study
on that.
I mean, like we've had a couplewho would earn really good
income.
Well, when I say income, theyearned about $120,000 each.
The couple combined they werepaying about $68,000 in taxes.
So we looked at the wholeholistic position of what they
had.
They wanted to pay theirmortgage a little bit faster,
they wanted to acquire a littlebit on the superannuation side.
(14:15):
So when we sort of looked up abit of a catch-up contribution
strategy, what we would do is golook, instead of you sort of
salary sacrificing and lettinggo all of that, let's have all
of that money come into youroffset account and every May,
june, we utilize that $10,000,$15,000 to throw that in your
super fund because you want tobuild that up faster and when
you do your tax return, we'regoing to claim that $15,000 as a
tax deduction.
(14:35):
So now that each individual wasgetting about $4,500, $5,000
each as a refund, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
That's the sort of stuff that people need to know
why they need to go see afinancial planner, and we spoke
off camera about this.
You know whether you need to bewealthy or you could be an
everyday person to speak to afinancial planner.
And the reason I bring that upis that's $4,500 that has come
back as a tax refund that isusable each.
So that's four and a halfthousand dollars that has come
(15:01):
back as a tax refund that isusable each, so that's nine
thousand dollars each now andyou compound that for the next
20 years.
That's magical correct and thenyou reinvest that I'm not even
thinking about compounding, I'mnot even thinking about that.
I'm thinking that somebody'sgrocery bills for the year, yeah
, yeah, because the cost ofliving has gone up so high that
most individuals that are on asalary or they're not on a job,
that you is paying a highcommission or any bonuses or
(15:23):
anything like that they'reactually suffering, yeah, and
the reason I wanted to bringthat up is because most people
think that financial plannersare just for the wealthy.
They're not, no, and it's wildwhen you say that it is.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
I need to be fit before I go to the gym.
Yeah, I'm like no before I goto the gym.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Yeah, I'm like no, it's the opposite.
It's the opposite, yeah.
So I'm going to tell you mystory.
I love the fact that you guyskeep bringing up the gym.
I used to be 131 kilos, droppedit all, naturally.
One bodybuilding competitionhas got down to like 80 kilos
and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Congratulations.
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
But the reason I bring that up is because of the
discipline.
But I walked into the gym andwhen I was 131 kilos and people
were more happy that I was therethan upset that I was there,
I'm a rookie.
I couldn't bench five kilos, Icouldn't.
I could not lift myself off theground like that's how heavy I
was.
But people were so excited tohelp me out.
And I think that's the samewith the financial planner.
You know, if somebody comes toyou and I think you, I could,
especially like I see it in yourface and you've been doing this
(16:24):
for how long, ray.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
I've been in financial service for almost 21
years now, so for 21 years.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
For somebody to be in this industry for 21 years and
still display that level ofexcitement and that smile to
help someone the individual isthe best thing in the world.
And now let me go back to myquestion.
I'll talk a massive roundabouton that one.
That's all right, someone being, you know they don't need to be
wealthy.
We've said, as you said, you gointo the gym.
(16:50):
You know you don't need to befit to go into a gym, you don't
need to be in particular shape,you just need to go to get
started.
You just need to start.
Now I want to talk about aparticular case study that you
guys have, and that was about asingle mom.
Yeah, and the reason I'mbringing up the single mom is
because the divorce rate in thiscountry is higher than it's
ever been.
Okay, there are a lot of peoplethat don't have the fiscal
(17:13):
knowledge to be able to assistthemselves.
Yeah, we have unfortunatelywe're not going to start the
arguments yet a government thatdoesn't know how to support the
individuals out there.
So how has a financial plannergone and assisted a single mum
with just two boys or two kidssorry, two kids be able to wipe
(17:33):
out 13 years from their mortgageand save on their taxes at the
same time?
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Do you want me to do this one?
I'll let you do that one.
So, look, I'll preface with thisparticular case study really
resonates with me and you hit onsome of those things a moment
ago which is I was raised by asingle mum and I was raised
uneducated about financialservices, as was my mum.
You know, we lived week to week, we lived in a housing
(17:58):
commission and you know, evenfor my mum now to this day, she
lives week to week and it's astruggle To hear that we have a
team of advisors at Riker thatlook after everything, from the
example we're about to talkabout right through to your
ultra high net worth clients andthe fact that this particular
case study for us as a group, wecelebrated it.
It really rings true thatyou're in the right place in the
(18:19):
right environment and basicallywhat it is is one of our
advisors, dean, he had thislovely lady come to him going.
I'm in my mid forties, I have amortgage, I have two kids, I'm
a single mom, I have an averageincome.
I'm never not going to be ableto stop working and I'm never
going to be able to finish offthis debt, and God forbid
anything happens to me.
I've been paying off this debtforever and I've got nothing to
(18:41):
leave to my kids.
I'm not protected in any waythat they have something should
something happen to me.
So Dean sat down with her andhe had a look at it.
And you know you talk.
You know we come from the worldof brokers.
We talk about money-makingexercises.
This was not a money-makingexercise and that's okay,
because it's good to give backand it's good to understand that
things that are good for otherpeople are good for everybody.
(19:04):
So what he did for her is he.
You know he can't change hersalary, he can't change her
investment portfolio.
She doesn't have any of that.
So it's about looking at herworld, how it's fixated and how
does he make it the best that hecan be.
And what he did is he wentthrough her cashflow.
He went through her income.
He went through her budget,gave her a diet that she can
sustain.
She now will have a mortgage.
(19:25):
That way she was like I'm nevergoing to end this debt.
She will have it paid off in 13years within the budget that
she can do.
He reworked her super and thestrategy investment in that
super that her super balancewill increase to retirement age
by.
I think it was about $190,000.
She doesn't have money to throwaround.
It's just adjusting it.
And also, you know her taxsaving each year is $1,000, but
(19:50):
that's $1,000 for a single mom.
That's a little weekend awaywith her kids, it's whatever it
might be.
So and also he set up herinsurance.
So now that she's protected andit's an insurance that she can
afford.
So for us as a team, outside ofthe big examples, we can tell
you where we created someone'swealth over millions of dollars
and bits and pieces.
We have a million of thoseexamples as well.
(20:11):
This for us as a team.
You know a lot of us come fromfamilies where they've moved
abroad.
We've come with nothing, singlemums.
We all have little stories totell where, if I look at our
team, all of us have generatedfrom families where we've come
from very little and to do thoselittle wins that for this
particular mum she was in tearsLike it's a big win.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
It really resonates with us and it's the reason that
we do what we do.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
You know, like there's big successes and little
successes, those littlesuccesses are sometimes the most
rewarding.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
And I think it was powerful that Dean used some of
the strategic strategies forcompounding that work both
against you as well as for you.
So just recognising those keycomponents where it's working
against you and for you, andthen how do you sort of
collaborate a strategy on those?
Yeah, that's quite powerful inthat example.
Sorry, I just no, don't saysorry, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
And the thing is I'll use this example for years to
come.
And you know, like in my career, there are different stories
that I have and I use them overand over and over, and it's it's
not because they're powerful toto tell a story.
They're powerful becausethey're real emotions, they're
real people and they're genuineoutcomes.
You know, and as you said, youknow, we we have a government
that is not necessarily lookingafter the people with low
incomes.
Well, it's nice that we can dothat.
(21:24):
And then you know it's circlingback to what you're saying is
there is a big conception thator perception is the right word
that you have to be wealthy tohave financial planning or
financial advice or a strategy.
Two things One is if I wouldchat with brokers and they're
like oh really nice to meet, you, love what you do.
When I've got someone to referto you, I'll give you a call.
It's like how does that work?
(21:45):
I actually said to one broker Igo explain that to me.
What do you mean by when you'vegot someone to refer you or
refer?
And they're like well, when Isee an opportunity, I'm like how
many loans do you settle amonth?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Because all four clients have super paying taxes
Right?
It bewilders me.
They have insurances.
Now you either choose to lookafter that or someone else will
it genuinely bewilders me.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Yeah, and I'm like the consultation is free, right,
and that's the first part.
Most brokers don't realize Tohave advice from us from a first
point of consultation.
It's complimentary, and wereally do understand that for
clients.
People get scared to have aconsultation because they think,
firstly, what is that going tocost?
But when they then have thatconsultation and realize this is
(22:30):
the potential reward thatyou're going to get out of it,
so it's not what the advice willcost you, it's what is it going
to give you back.
And you've got so many examples, ray, where someone might pay
$2,000 for an SOA but the rewardon that is $10,000.
What makes more sense?
Speaker 1 (22:48):
I'm hearing everything that you're saying,
but the thing that I loved themost was the four opportunities.
You set a four class, that'sfour opportunities right there,
and the reason I say that waswhen I left high school, I got
three speeding fines.
Okay, I didn't want my parentsto find out and I wasn't earning
much money.
I was working a footlocker, andthat was it.
I walked into CBA and I've gota credit card.
(23:08):
Okay, I've got a credit cardand, mind you, I'm still the 131
kilo kid right there.
Okay, so I've got a credit card.
They gave me a $5,000 limitwithout knowing anything.
They go yeah, here you go.
And then I've spent the moneyand then, all of a sudden,
minimum repayment was like 21bucks, something like that.
I go yeah, that's fine, that'sfine, that's fine, yeah, the
unrealized expense on that iscraziness so I ended up owing
(23:30):
like seven thousand dollarstowards the end, you know, and
just by having that and thengoing over my limit and all
those types of things thatreally affected me, yeah, and
then once I started limit andall those types of things that
really affected me, and thenonce I started to get a little
bit more finance acumen andeverything, that's when I
started to realise hold up asecond, why aren't we teaching
this in school?
(23:50):
Why aren't we teaching this toindividuals?
Why aren't we?
You know, programming kids,what you know?
This is my favourite thing Likewhy are we learning about
geology when I'm telling you now, kids out there, they're never
going to look at a rock and say,oh, it's this or it's that, but
every single person, at onepoint in their life, is going to
have a credit card, they'regoing to have a charge card,
they're going to have some sortof debt.
(24:11):
They're going to have super.
Yeah, they're going to havesuper.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
They're going to have some sort of debt.
They're going to be a broker.
Tell him to come what?
So what was that anyway?
He probably does.
He keeps like all I wanted todo is make money.
But this year he did commercein year nine and he elected to
do.
Just for clarity, there's a 200hour course.
It's very different to when wewent to school and talk about
(24:35):
units now.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
It's 200 hours um what they do work from home at
school as well now.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
But but they've got 200 hours, which is over year 9
or 10, where you can choose 100.
So he did the 100 just in year9, but now he can't do commerce
in year 10.
His school have introduced andthey're launching it next year a
course that's sort of like abranch off from commerce, and we
were looking at his electivesthe other day and we've really
leaned on him to do this andit's how to get a loan how to do
(25:02):
a budget.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
You're joking.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
How to open a bank account.
What does tax mean?
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
When you get a credit card, what does it really mean
and what does it cost?
Like all of these differentthings, superannuation, and it's
real-life.
Advice, advice and experiencelike not experiences, but
learnings.
Around you're in year.
What does a mortgage look like?
(25:27):
What can you afford?
And I was like, how amazing isthis?
And the head of commerce rangme and said, mel, you know, I'd
really love it if your son didthis course.
I think you do really well atit.
So I'm like yes.
Well, he's been around it allhis life, so well, this is the
thing, and I said this isprobably one subject I can
actually help you study withWoodwork.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I can't help you with I do want to touch on something
about I love that.
I do want to touch on somethingabout investment properties.
Now, as a mortgage broker, thisis one thing that quickly, or
you know, all the mortgagecalculators have, and there's a
section called negative gearing,and because something is an
investment property and there'snegative gearing involved.
(26:06):
All of a sudden, somebody canafford a mortgage.
All of a sudden, oh yep, it'san investment loan.
Now the reason I bring that upis most people don't understand
that just because something'snegatively geared doesn't mean
you don't have to pay for it upfront with your cash flow
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
It's such a misconception out there, for
that part.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yeah.
So the reason I bring this upis when you're discussing these
things with your clients and, aswe talked about before, you
know it's not always for thewealthy, it's for the everyday
individual Are you outliningthose things?
Hey, just so you know, justbecause it can be negative
geared and you can get thatmoney back at the end, that
doesn't mean you don't have tocome up with the money up front.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Correct, are we having those conversations?
Investment strategies forproperty are not for everybody,
because they're not necessarilyaffordable, because negative
gearing still has to be serviced.
Correct and not?
Speaker 2 (26:50):
only that ultimately you have to pay that debt down,
because you're really losing thecapital value on that property
if you just keep paying interest, because what you're really
hoping for is a capital gain.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Ultimately, yeah, and that capital gain has been
eaten away by all the holdingcosts, which is interest rates,
agents' fees, insurances, sothat all compounding factor
comes into play 100%, and I lovethat you raised it, because I
was actually having aconversation with someone about
this just this morning and I wasthinking, oh, I should have
spoken to Joe about this andspoken about it for today.
(27:19):
So it's, we're in tune.
There we go.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
We're properly in line.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
That's it exactly.
Yeah, but it's a real thing youknow, and we spoke about this
just recently in one of ourpodcasts where if someone has an
$80,000 salary and wants to getan investment portfolio, that's
great.
Let's work on that.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
What's your post-tax income?
How much is going tosuperannuation?
How much are you spending onyour credit cards?
Are you actually spending $200a week on groceries, or is it
actually $400-something?
Speaker 3 (27:44):
a week.
But what stress are you puttingon yourself to have that
investment portfolio?
Is it sustainable?
Speaker 1 (27:49):
100%.
I do want to touch on somethingnow, because as financial
planners, you're often planningfor the future.
The accountants are oftenreconciling in the past.
Now I do want to note a lot oflisteners don't actually know
the difference, because you havea lot of accountants that
advertise themselves as advisorsas well, but most of the time
they're just trying to reconcilewhat has occurred in the last
(28:11):
12 months.
So could you provide adefinition as to the difference
between financial planning andaccounting for our listeners?
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Okay, so, from being an accountant, essentially what
we did was we looked at thereview.
What I mean by that is welooked at what you've done the
last 12 months, because you'vecome to me in August, september
now you're on a tax return.
But essentially what I'mlooking at is your past, of what
you have done, what you havespent on, what you have earned.
And I'm going to go right nowlet's pay Anthony Albanese this
(28:39):
amount.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Oh, man, why are you guys trying to rev me up?
We're trying, it's not working.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Oh no, I did like a 45-minute meditation session
before this.
But yes, sorry Joe, no, it'sokay, it's okay.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
From a financial planner perspective, what it's
about is going and previously,when I was an accountant, I
couldn't talk about that becauseI wasn't licensed exactly to go
.
Well, no, let's have a look atthis strategy.
Let's look at the you know, thefive years, the 10 years, the
15 years.
I've had clients who werereally good at making but worse
at keeping it and even worse atmanaging it.
So for me it was like it's wildthat I can't speak about it.
(29:13):
But how do I go about talkingabout it?
So hence the financial planningpart.
So financial planning allowedme to sort of then go right,
let's look at the fast-forwardstrategies as to what we're
going to be thinking about intwo years' time, five years'
time, a decade, and what doesthat look like?
So advice is all about futureplanning.
Accounting is like so.
(29:33):
So advice is all about futureplanning.
Accounting is sometimes alsothere can be a business advisory
part to it which can come intoplay.
But accountants purely lookafter the tax and lodgement of
tax and management of tax.
Advisor purely planners.
Uh, they structure out yourinvestments, your portfolios,
what works, what doesn't work.
Um, as an example, I'm like ifI've got bhp shares in my super
fund, I'm hoping that BHP isgoing to take me to retirement.
That's the wrong misconception.
(29:54):
You've got to look at how youinvest it.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
And at risk of upsetting the apple cart and
offending anyone and disclaimermy husband's an accountant, so
he's a very good accountant atthat.
We've worked in finance forever.
Okay, how many clients do weknow that have taken their
accountant's advice and theirbusiness have gone bust because
it was not the right advice?
Speaker 1 (30:13):
I believe the fifth.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Right, but it's just, we've got so many you know you
hear them go.
My accountant told me to dothis.
My accountant told me to dothat and you know it's a trusted
relationship and I'm sure thataccountant did it with good
intentions.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
But walking out of your square that you're not
licensed, authorised, accreditedor equipped to do.
Lean in on the other peoplethat are around you.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
One thing I want to bring up the reason why people
need financial planners andaccountants.
For that matter, everybodyneeds an accountant.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
It's a collaboration.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
It's a collaboration.
But one thing I do want to say,and I'm going to make you two
laugh in a second please don'task your broker about the advice
for your tax structures or howyou should set up a business.
We are here to help you borrowmoney.
After we get the advice fromthese lovely individuals not
myself do not come to me and say, hey, should I go trust,
co-create, unit trust and starttrading, and I'm like, no, no,
no, wrong person, no, no, youdon't.
(31:07):
You don't come to us.
My biggest issue with thebroking industry right now is
you can get your certificates ina day.
You're on board with AFCA, youregister with one of the bodies
You're a broker in two weeks.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Someone told me the other day they became a broker
in two hours.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Yeah, I believe it because there's so much access
to quickly to become one anduniversity for five years, five
years, five years.
University for University forfive years, five years, five
years.
University for I went for twoand a half, but you were
studying law, correct, if youdid want to complete your degree
.
It was four years at the time.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Yeah you had a year at the bar or a year at law
school and then you had thethree years of placement, which
means you were then stilllearning as an advisor to go
well, how do you manage it?
Perfect.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Perfect examples.
Okay is for a broker.
It's a one-day course now andyou can handle tax file numbers,
passports, driver's licenses,tax returns Like there's so much
sensitive data that people haveaccess to.
As brokers and I've said thistime and time again People are
like there's too much compliancein broking.
I think there needs to be more.
Like I know it's such a left offield thing, but I'm saying
(32:09):
this from the position of I haveseen so many people come to the
industry and just say, oh, am Isupposed to do?
I need cybersecurity and dataprotection, yeah, and I'm like,
I'm like I'm going to jump offthe balcony, like that's it.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
And if it makes you feel any better.
It's been like that for such along time.
So I'd say two parts to that.
One is when I was in finance,when I worked at BMW.
I still remember, like backthen, two things.
You know, auto was a dirty wordand brokers was even a dirtier
word, so compliance was loose.
Nobody wanted to go to a broker.
You either went to your bankwhere you were trusted you know
(32:45):
ex-accountants and things likethat and you know it was just so
much harder to be in that space.
And you know the brokerindustry back then was very few
and far between and now it's alarge space and good for that,
because brokers the reason forbrokers is it's a great purpose,
it's the largest capacity oflending in any space and we do a
(33:05):
great job.
But I do think there definitelyneeds to be tighter rules
around your ability to accesspeople's information and what
you do with that information andhow you provide that advice.
But I feel like we are movingin that space better with the
mentoring and the two-yearrequirement of somebody looking
over you.
But again, you know you'reright, it can be tighter.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Guys, we have so many changes happening in the
australian federal governmentand the ones that are impacting
both productivity as well as taxand financial planning advice.
I bring this up to you guysbecause I want to know how these
changes are going to affectpeople in the long run.
How does a financial plannerand a good accountant help you?
How, how does a good group ofplanners, accountants, brokers
(33:54):
and I am shameless plug rightthere.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
No, it's a triangular collaboration.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
But how does that protect you from these future
changes?
Speaker 2 (34:03):
I think you start to strategise a lot earlier on,
because you know what the billsare going to be proposed and
what's likely to go ahead.
So, we don't want to jumpnecessarily the gun either in
terms of the strategy, becauseif not, you'll just make
yourself worse as soon as thebills are passed.
At least what you've done isyou've got a plan in place that,
should an event occur like that, how are we going to tactically
strategise an asset?
(34:24):
I mean, like for one of ourclients, they've got $4.5
million in superannuation asset.
Now, point five million dollarsin superannuation asset.
Now what we're going to beutilizing is is a structural
investment bonds.
Now what is the investmentbonds does is we've taken out
that superannuation asset andwe've had that in investment
bonds, which means whatever he'searned in the next 10 years
completely tax-free yeah I'vegot to give you a phone call
after this.
(34:45):
All right, there's so manydifferent strategies that you
can align yourself to go.
Okay, if this is the rulethat's going to change, we're
going to pivot this way or we'regoing to pivot that way.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
And if I say it from more of a layman point of view,
because you know Ray's lens isdefinitely from the advice point
, Mine is from the person on thesubject of all of this stuff is
it's the realisation that youneed a good broker so that you
have access to the right loans,the right rates, the right
policies, all that bits.
You need a good accountant thatis optimizing all the right
(35:16):
taxes in the right areas and theclaim abilities, but you need a
really good financial advisorthat you have those annual
reviews because you know.
It's like a someone saying Idon't need a lawyer because I
understand the law but you don'tunderstand the intricacies of
it.
You don't need.
If you need heart surgery, Idon't need heart surgery.
I know my heart beats Like.
You need a financial advisornow because, while you might
(35:36):
understand your finances to someextent especially the way the
government moves, policies move,shifts, move all of it as an
advisor your niche isunderstanding the deeper
intricacies of you know what thepropositions are, what the
future might be, deeperintricacies of what the
propositions are, what thefuture might be and that whole
triangular relationship is thatecosystem is required, I think,
(35:56):
more than ever, because what wecan control is how we manage it,
how we look forward, but whatwe can't control is policy
shifts and changes.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah, but it's also.
They're all individual.
So you've got your personal taxlaw, you've got your
superannuation tax law, you'vegot the investment structure.
So what are you trying to donow?
Personal tax law, you've gotyour superannuation tax law,
you've got the investmentstructure.
So what are you trying to donow?
Pivot from different places towork around, to go well, what is
the best scenario that's goingto fit for my client from a
superannuation tax lawperspective, from a personal tax
law, and what investment I cansort of circle around to make
sure that I don't payinheritance tax or a oh no no,
(36:27):
no, no, true.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
It's like understanding how do you build
for that retirement plan in adifferent, clever, strategic way
that gets you the most and youpay the least, yeah, and that
constantly changes.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Yeah, I can use an example for that.
Just only a couple of weeks agoI helped my clients who they've
got roughly around half amillion dollars each in
superannuation side.
Now, inside superannuation,what they call is a taxable
component and a tax-freecomponent.
So a taxable tax component iswhere the kids, if they were to
inherit that money, win theirpay tax.
So what we did for them, giventheir age, we did a strategy
(37:02):
called a cash out andre-contribute.
Now we had to obviously look atwhat was allowed for them in
terms of the ATO rules.
We cashed out the super fundand put it back in, so what that
allowed was the entirety of thetaxable component now became
tax-free.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
You put it back into their-.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Into their own super fund.
So we took it out of the superfund and put it back inside the
super fund.
Now that's treated as what theycall a non-concessional.
Now, in saying that when theirkids inherit that money which is
up to 360, 360, they've savedover $300,000 in debt taxes.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
See.
So, Look at both of us.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Both of us are going okay, this is why I keep saying
to people don't go to yourbroker for financial planning
advice, okay.
Final question Sure, how isyour group supporting more
brokers out there?
Because I see you guys at everysingle event.
(37:55):
I see you guys at the MFAA, atthe FBAAA, I see you guys at,
you know, the large gala days,everything.
So how are we supporting morebrokers and how can these
brokers find you or reach out toyou?
Speaker 3 (38:06):
You go Ray Okay.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
So how are we supporting brokers?
I mean, like most of thebrokers want to do the right
thing and they go Ray, we justdon't want to step into
something and say somethingwrong where I put my client in a
worse position.
And every broker is about thatand I love that part.
Most of the clients I talk toabout SMSF they're becoming more
and more popular they go butlook, I don't know much about it
, but if I say somethingincorrectly I've set them up for
(38:29):
the wrong part of the tax.
If I say, go buy a property, ina company name.
The company has no CGT exemption.
I don't want to say that and Imight sort of set my client up
in the wrong way.
So the good thing is there'snow awareness starting to build
up as to what we do and how weadd value.
So we're starting to educatebrokers on why is it important
to sort of re-look at taxstrategies.
(38:49):
Because if their goal is to buya second property, how do we
best position them now to getthem to that second home or
third home or fourth home?
What is the tax strategyinvolved?
What is the cash flow shouldlook like?
So when the client walks awayout of that meeting, they go
right, I've got a clear pathwayon what I need to do.
My goal is to buy second, third, fourth property.
So that's one part.
Second part is how do we ensurethat there is a safety net for
(39:10):
me should something goes wrong?
That safety net, maybe in theform of the insurance, will
catch me so the bank doesn'tcome and encumber my assets.
Yep.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
Yeah, so I think also too, though, that, like the
thing to probably note is howare we supporting brokers?
It's also around education forthem, and I think you sort of
hit the nail on the head earlier.
A lot of brokers sort of thinkof financial advisors purely for
insurance or super orretirement plan.
There are so many other things.
It could be a divorce, as youmentioned earlier.
It's you've had more children,it's you've just acquired your
(39:39):
first mortgage.
How do you strategize for that?
It could be for the cashflow.
So it's also asked how are wesupporting brokers?
It's that education around.
There are not two or threeareas that we specialise in.
There's probably 20 differenttrigger points that are outside
of just the.
I settled a loan that you wouldgo.
You probably should speak to anadvisor to work on that,
(40:02):
whatever it might be.
So I think that's a really keything to note.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
And trying to create an ecosystem for that client,
because that client comes to yougoing well, you have got a
wealth of knowledge to thebroker and they'll ask those
questions but we want to be thatsupporting ecosystem for that
broker and the client's so sohappy walking away going.
I came in with that part.
I got help with every otherpart that I was looking for
because I had to go somewhereelse to look for those services
(40:26):
anyway so one thing I want tobring up as a final sign-off for
brokers, the riskiest thing isa client leaving because
clawback.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Clawback will always affect a broker's back pocket.
That's their upfront commissionand their trial book, the
sizability of it.
So, by working with a financialplanner, what ends up happening
?
Well, it's not so much there'sno clawback, it's you're
creating an ecosystem wherethey're not going to be leaving
you because you're not acting.
As I said previously,transactional.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
And I'm glad that you said that.
Yeah, because if you thinkabout it and you're a broker,
you get this right.
The majority of your clients asa broker.
Your lifespan with that clientis three to four years.
Yeah, that's not happening here,no but, like as in, not every
client buys investments, notevery client like a lot of them,
(41:18):
you know, whilst you keep thatrelationship and there might be
a refinance or referral, but thereality is a lot of people have
one home.
A lot of people buy one carevery three to four years, or
some people buy one car every 10years.
So your ability to engage withthem as a broker there are
limitations for some of thoseclients when with us, whereas
(41:39):
and it's also about thatecosystem, as Ray has mentioned
is we are building an ecosystemwhere there is an annualized
requirement and want for us toengage with that client.
We're building on that, we'recircling it back to our broker
where it's obviously fits and itsuits, but that client is
always owned by that broker.
So that relationship with youfor them is also a different
kind of conversation, it's adifferent touch point, it's a
(41:59):
different trigger and it's abigger care factor.
But then, with that, one of thethings that I do love with the
team is, let's say, you send usyour sister, jo and we look
after her and the team.
I'm going to be a bit, you know, sales-like for a moment.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
No, no, no.
I love shameless plugs.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
It's all good this is one of the things that really
drew me to come work with thiscompany is you know their ethos,
their values and theirgenuineness of wanting to do the
things that they do.
And you look at that and yousee their NPS score sits at
roughly 4.8 and aboveconsistently.
And that's no easy feat infinancial planning Like it's not
an easy feat, it speaks volumes.
But the result of that is yousend us your sister, your
(42:39):
sister's Laura Laura has such agreat experience with Ray Ray's
shown her.
You know we circle back to thecase study we used of our lovely
client earlier.
You know that client.
She's going to tell three ofher friends and she's going to,
they're going to refer to us.
Now, statistically, that clientis not yours, that's ours.
(43:03):
But what we do at Riker is, ifyou could imagine, you're a
trunk and you're the root ofthat branch, of that tree.
Those clients that comereferring into us whenever we
have things that need circlingback into a lending space, come
to you.
They build on your ecosystemand we remunerate you on that.
So we're expanding Consistently.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
so upfront and ongoing.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
Yeah, whatever we do for that client, even though you
didn't refer that extendedclient, we still remunerate you
on it.
We want to build your ecosystem.
So there's two parts.
Is what we do with that?
Referral from Laura comes toyou anyway as well, and then
anything from a lending point ofview comes to you as well.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Comes back.
It's a boomerang.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
It's a full ecosystem that we're branching out that
you would never see.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
But we want to act as your second layer relationship
manager, more than anything else.
Absolutely, if the client'sabout to make some wild
decisions and about to go.
Well, look, I just spoke to mycousin who's a mortgage broker.
Oh right, no problems at all.
Whilst I'm here with Joe andI've just looked after you from
Joe's perspective, I think youmight want to give the courtesy
to Joe as well at the same timeand the client wants to do that.
It's just a matter of sometimesthere's just time for it
(44:17):
no-transcript.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
Understand, by talking to a different broker,
the impact that has on you.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Yeah, from a remuneration point of view, uh,
yeah a lot of clients do notunderstand that they don't
understand that, but the truthof the matter is you said
something and I started laughing.
Sorry, ray said something andhe goes.
I spoke to my broker, my cousinwho's a broker, and my head
exploded.
I'm like the amount of timesI've had to tell people, guys,
if somebody's at a barbecue withyou and just because they say
(44:46):
they can get your lower interestrate or something and your
broker has been in the game fora long time, just make sure
you're doing your due diligencebefore you go and jump and sign
a different statement of creditassistance.
Ray, Melissa, this has been waytoo much fun.
I need to get you guys on again.
Where can people find you?
Speaker 3 (45:04):
Well, we're usually at every event, as you
highlighted.
So you can find us at thebrightest yellow stand Actually
no, I won't say that, becausewe're transitioning our bright
colours, so watch the brandlinks that we're having.
But you'll find us at FBAA,you'll find us at MFAA.
We're online, yep.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
Your website Just reach out website.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
We've got a really great podcast guide.
Follow that on.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
you know the Wealth Guide podcast Sorry no
competition, but it's just ashameless plug.
It's all right, it's ashameless plug.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
We're on spotify.
We've got a youtube.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
You can find us on instagram linkedin everywhere
you can google us perfect andyou can google us and if you
need any help with your lending,you can reach us at
wwwitsimplecomau.
We promise, if you're already abroker, we're not going to
steal you away from rikercapital.
Okay, if you're sorry if you'realready a client at riker
capital, we are not going tosteal you away from Riker
Capital.
Okay, no, absolutely Sorry.
If you're already a client atRiker Capital, we are not going
(45:54):
to take you away from yourbroker.
And if you need any help,whether it's your investment
properties, you're purchasing anowner-occupied property, or
even if you need to borrow inyour SMSF I know I said it
before, but I still do it Reachout to us at wwwitsimplecomau.
As always, my name is JosephDalwood.
Thank you Ray, Thank you Joe,Thank you Melissa, Thank you Joe
, See you guys next time.
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