August 28, 2024 • 22 mins
Ever wondered how the magic happens behind high-stakes real estate deals? Meet Karem Lakiss, co-founder of Mayfair Real Estate, as he takes us on his remarkable journey from working in his family's service station business and with Emirates to becoming a real estate powerhouse. Karim also dives deep into how social media has revolutionized the real estate landscape.
Get ready to hear about some jaw-dropping real estate transactions, including a scenario where a $16 million home is purchased for a buyer's daughter. Learn the true importance of property styling and how professional stylists can turn a home into a buyer's dream.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Michael (00:04):
Welcome to the Finance Show with Joe.
He's Joe.
I'm just some schmo.
We've got a very special guesttoday Karem Lakiss from Mayfair
Real Estate Welcome.
Karem (00:11):
Thank you, thanks guys, thanks for having me, Karem.
Joe (00:14):
I'm so happy to have you on you and I have been trying to
tee this up for months now.
Karem (00:17):
It's been a while.
Joe (00:18):
The bloke went to Lebanon, he went to Dubai.
He was cruising around theworld whilst the rest of us had
to endure winter.
He had the time of his life,but thank you so much for coming
.
Karem (00:26):
No, thanks for having me.
Joe (00:27):
It's a very funny story between Karem and I.
Karem actually used to be mylandlord over in Belmore, so
when we first started in Simple,we were moving around and we
were just trying to find thebest office space, but you were
the first person to actuallygive us a tenancy and you gave
us office space.
So I've always been grateful toKarim because he actually gave
us the opportunity to be able towork as a team and, you know,
(00:47):
work from a certain hub andreally build a culture.
So thank you so much, karim.
Karem (00:51):
No, thank you for joining us.
That was a new venture for us.
We bought that building and wehad no tenants, so we kind of
helped each other.
It was a good synergy.
Joe (00:58):
It was definitely a good synergy.
So, Karem, I just kind of wantto start this off with
introducing you.
You're a real estate agent andyou specialise in Belmore,
Belfield.
Can you give us the certainsuburbs that you're taking care
of at the moment?
Karem (01:10):
Yeah, so we are based in Belmore.
So the business is Mayfair RealEstate, owned by myself and my
business partner Chantal.
We specialise kind of inCanterbury, bankstown but inner
west sort of.
So Belmore is a little bitunique where you can go out into
the Canberra Bankstown districtlike suburbs like Le Canbar,
greenacre, bankstown, but thenalso venture back into Belfield,
roselands, kingsgrove, enfield,into the inner west a little
(01:32):
bit Dulwich Hill, marrickville.
We've had a few good sales inMarrickville so it's very
encompassing in terms of wherewe can go geographically.
But as I say to most peoplethese days, I don't believe
you're capped by where you areanymore.
I totally believe that realestate has transformed so much
in the last few years with thehelp of social media that you
know, as long as you're a goodagent, you can market correctly,
(01:53):
you can probably sell anywhereyou like.
Joe (01:55):
How did you get your start in real estate?
Karem (02:00):
So I'll try to be very short with this story.
I started real estate my careerin October of 2015.
So I was, like in my early tomid-30s sort of Previous to that
worked with Dad in the servicestation game since I was a kid,
since 14 years old, working infamily business, transitioned
out of that at the age of 30,worked with Emirates for about
three years at Sydney Airport asa ground handler for him and
(02:20):
then realised it was a great jobbut just wasn't what I wanted
to do.
Always loved real estate,always loved property.
Obviously, I like to speak, andyou'll find that out through
this podcast.
I love the art of negotiationand just helping people.
So I went and got my licencewhile working at Emirates and
then pretty much quit.
Once I got my licence, reachedout to a friend of mine in
Bankstown that owned an agency.
He gave me a shot.
(02:41):
I did two years with him andthen my business partner,
chantal, encouraged me to jumpon board and we started Mayfair.
And here we are.
Joe (02:49):
So I need to understand something Now.
If you go office, you willsee a massive monopoly.
Michael (02:57):
I was going to ask is Mayfair like Mayfair on the
monopoly board?
That's exactly what it is.
Karem (03:01):
It's the most expensive property on the monopoly board,
so the name actually came from agood friend of mine years ago,
before I was even thinking aboutdoing real estate.
He mentioned once and then,when we were thinking of
starting real estate, me andchantal were like what could we
call it?
And I made the suggestion andwe're just both like, yeah, this
is so us.
It's not traditional, it's alittle bit gimmicky, which is
what we wanted.
We wanted a fresh approach.
We still want to be conformedto the usual.
Joe (03:23):
Yeah because when you walk into you know Mayfair and
Belmore, you don't feel likeyou're in an old school 90s real
estate agency.
It's such a dynamic workenvironment.
It's very cultural.
I think the average age of theemployee there's like 25 or 27
or something.
Karem (03:43):
We're a very young team, yeah.
Joe (03:44):
So it's just such a.
It's refreshing, I think that'sthe best way to put it.
I feel refreshed going in thereand then I'm guessing that's a
massive point of difference foryour clients as well Like they
walk in and they're like oh,this is a lot more energetic
than you know.
Going to I'm not going to namenames but going to another real
estate agent.
Karem (04:01):
Yeah, 100%.
And that was our point ofdifference.
Like from the start we startedMayfair with a mindset of saying
we didn't want to do whateveryone else was doing.
I like to think I identifiedpretty early the start of like
social media and what I could dofor real estate, and that my
old employer will kind of capwith what we can do in terms of
video production and stuff.
No one was doing videos backthen for real estate, so we
(04:23):
always wanted to be a little bitleft of field and that's our
personality, like if you can'tbe who you are, there's no point
doing it, right?
So I'm only genuine to mysource.
I can only be who I am.
So our office is very funky.
There's speakers in the roof,there's a bar in the office.
You've seen the bar.
We've got a gong in the office.
(04:46):
I mean Like we're just, it's whowe are, we don't change it.
I swear I heard what I wantedto hear.
I heard bong.
No, definitely not a bong, agong G-O-N-G.
Joe (04:53):
Liam, get the TikTok camera out.
So just to deviate away frombongs, can you just give us a
little bit of insight as to whatyou've seen in the real estate
market over the last five years?
Karem (05:06):
Well, it's been a rollercoaster ride, hasn't it?
I think everyone's copped it.
Joe (05:09):
Yeah, In Arabic we call that kalnoha.
Karem (05:13):
Yeah, most definitely.
Look, I think… Going back nowfour years, maybe COVID, I think
, really changed the game foreveryone.
I still remember, vividlyremember, I had an auction on
the Saturday on the day where wehad the first COVID breakout in
2020, and they were likeliterally shutting things down
on the Saturday.
They were like they're going tocancel auctions, they're going
(05:34):
to cancel open homes.
And I had a vendor call and Iwas selling a property in
Belfield the brand new duplex,and it was stressing.
It was like what do we do?
Do we cancel it?
I'm like I've got buyers, Ithink we go, I think we proceed,
let's just get it going.
Thankfully, we sold it.
We broke a record during thosetimes.
But then I remember it was likethe world was going to fall
over.
Everyone was like propertyprices are going to drop.
(05:56):
The world's going to like thesky is going to.
It was a deceased estate, about500 plus square metres,
beautiful street, beautifulproperty, and I could not get
one person interested in it andI was like what is going on?
This thing is a diamond in therough.
I encouraged everyone.
I could think of developerscome, you can build a duplex on
it.
Overlooks the golf course.
No one wanted to touch itEventually sold it for $2
(06:16):
million.
That property today would sellfor $3 million in a heartbeat.
Joe (06:21):
Really.
Karem (06:21):
Property today would sell for $3 million in a heartbeat,
Really In a heartbeat.
And I've still got guys callingme today that I spoke to back
then saying to me I should havelistened to you.
I told you all no one fuckinglistened to me.
Joe (06:30):
This is what I've been trying to tell people for months
and months Just get into themarket.
And one key thing that I liketo bring up is councils are not
approving new dwellings and landruns out, and the way that
Sydney is positioned is theycan't go any further east than
(06:50):
Bondi.
Karem (06:51):
It's Bondi, and then there's water.
Joe (06:54):
There's no islands.
We don't do that stuff thatSingapore does, where they
reclaim land.
Michael (06:59):
Yeah, dubai, did that too.
Yeah, that was Dubai, wherethey do.
Is it called rec, right?
Yeah, dubai, the palm treething.
Joe (07:02):
Was that Dubai?
That was Dubai, when they do.
Is it called reclaimed land?
I think that's what it's called.
Japan does it as well, so we'relimited with the amount of
properties or new propertiesthat are going to be released.
Yeah.
And then on top of that, withthe building commissioner coming
in and high-rises being on thedown like nobody wants to live
in an apartment anymore becauseof strata fees, and you know all
(07:23):
the things that come with it,we now see properties are just
skyrocketing Land houses.
Anything that's new build, I'mimagining, is selling for quite
a lot, yeah new builds have gonethrough the roof.
Karem (07:33):
Further to what you're saying, not only is it becoming
scarce with land, but thebuilding cost is astronomical.
Yeah, so what's happened island prices have gone up, so
building prices have gone up.
So how do they justify itanymore?
How does a builder now payovers for the land?
Then it's costing him double tobuild.
So where's he going to get hisgross realisation from?
Yeah, the client Probably not.
(07:55):
Yeah, you know, I try to alwayseducate my buyers and say look
if you have to do it yourself,but it doesn't always correlate
that way.
No, you know what I mean.
So it's getting dicey out there.
Michael (08:05):
Yeah, I mean, there's so many builders who feel like
closing down recently.
Do we have a number for that?
We talked about this in anotherepisode.
Joe (08:10):
Yeah, it was like yeah, I think it was like 56 shut down
in the month of July or June orsomething.
Michael (08:21):
Yeah, where do they make?
Karem (08:22):
Because I heard that builders the costs have gone up,
but they have to keep theirprices low to remain competitive
, because someone else will justcome in and cut them off.
Michael (08:31):
So what do they do?
They close.
Karem (08:39):
D on't well, there's nothing you can do.
And don't forget, immigrationis not slowing down.
No, In fact, it's doubling andtripling.
Joe (08:39):
Don't bring that up.
So yeah well we all know it.
Apparently, I'm on an ASIO listbecause I've been telling
people off well, telling AnthonyAlbanese off, just being like,
hey, mate, like there's a lot ofkids, kids under the age of 25,
that can't afford propertyright now because of the level
of migration.
I'm not saying stop migration,I'm a migrant.
(09:00):
You know, my brother and mysister were born in Lebanon.
You know my parents areLebanese.
I'm a first-generationAustralian.
I'm just saying just pump thebrakes a little bit.
You know, like I understand, weneed to keep the economy going.
They can't do anything aboutinterest rates because inflation
is still high, but like we'vegot to do something.
You know, and we spoke aboutthis off camera, you're not
(09:23):
seeing many buyers under the ageof 25 in your areas, are you
Not?
Karem (09:26):
in my areas, I mean, the medium house price in Belmore is
probably about 1.2, 1.3.
And like that's a three-bedroomthat needs a lot of work, yeah
Right.
So a brand-new duplex, forinstance, $2 million is your
entry level.
Joe (09:41):
Wow.
Karem (09:42):
So not many people can afford those ranges, especially
in the lower end of the market.
So a lot of my buyers yes, theyare kind of 35 plus what I am
seeing is a lot of downsizes aswell buying brand new properties
.
So maybe they want to enjoy thelast part of their lives in
something really nice and welldone Boutique.
Yeah, 100%.
And also parents assistingtheir children, buying homes,
(10:04):
and a common conversation is ifI don't help them, who's going
to help them?
I need to get them to themarket.
I need to get them to themarket, whether it's a unit or
if it's someone more wealthy andthey can afford to buy
themselves, their child, a nicebig home, so be it.
And I've had a couple of thosestories as well.
Joe (10:19):
I had a borrower recently contact me and he's in his 60s.
He's done very well for himself.
You know.
He's done commercial propertiesand everything and, as we all
know, property just keeps goingup.
He has three kids and he giftedthem $500,000 each to go and
buy a property.
That's insane, okay, like Ihear that and I'm like whoa,
(10:41):
that is like cash, like not, not, not.
Michael (10:44):
He's the one who's got it under the mask.
Joe (10:46):
Yeah, yeah.
But I just kind of like heardthat and I was like whoa.
But then I thought to myselflike this guy's actually helping
his kids out, this guy's reallylike just making sure his kids
are set up Similar to what yousaid.
If he doesn't help them, who'sgoing to?
Karem (11:00):
Because the Similar to what you said.
If he doesn't help them, who'sgoing to?
Because the government doesn't.
Well, I've got one better thanthat, if you've got time for a
really quick story.
Joe (11:04):
No, no, go, shoot, shoot, shoot.
Karem (11:05):
I was selling a property in Roselands last year, met
these buyers an older couple,husband and wife, walked in
shorts, t-shirt in thongs,unassuming, you know, I've
always learned a rule in realestate ever.
Anyway, they came in, it was abrand new great home.
Price guide was about 3.2, 3.3.
Comes in, sees me and he's like, yeah, looking for my daughter,
(11:26):
I'm like no problem.
He walked around, came back andsaw me.
He goes I really love thishouse, I really love it.
He goes you can't come heretoday.
I go what are you looking atspending?
Like, what's the budget?
$4 million to spend for eachchild to buy him a house.
He goes I've bought him all ahouse and this is the last one.
And in my head I'm like what?
And he goes it's all cash.
He goes no finance, it's all inthe bank, $16 million In the
(11:48):
bank.
So I'm like, okay, so we bringthe daughter through.
She doesn't like the house andI couldn't believe her.
I would have just hated it.
Michael (11:59):
Yeah, I would have just been like yeah, thank you.
Karem (12:00):
Anyway, I met them, like last September, I stayed with
them.
I stayed with them Because Iknew I had a red hot buyer.
When you identify a buyer, youalways want to sell them
something right?
Yeah, I listed this othergorgeous property in Roselands
earlier this year in.
February and I called himstraight away.
I go, mate.
His name Came to the open.
I had 30 people in the openhome.
He shows up, he looks aroundand he just goes back to the
(12:23):
house fresco.
He just sits on the lounge,hums out and the daughter came
through and he goes.
I'll wait until they're alldone.
They're all finished and hegoes.
What do you want for it?
I go, mate three will buy ittoday.
He goes.
All right, he goes.
I'll come you Monday evening.
He goes.
My daughter's not sure aboutthe living room.
I brought them all through.
Everyone came.
She was worried about the couchand the configuration so I made
(12:45):
everyone reconfigure thestyling.
We picked up couches.
Are you talking?
Joe (12:48):
about styling.
Karem (12:49):
Yeah, because she couldn't work it out.
We picked up couches, we movedcouches, I opened up the dining
for her.
I reconfigured the whole layout.
I go, it works.
I'm like done.
He's like all right, let's do adeal.
I'm like done.
2.95 million, sign the contractthe next day.
Michael (13:04):
Soldi I, I'm just like damn I'm just a luxury, to just
be like I'm not sure if thestyling's gonna work, I'd rock
up and go to a house and go.
Karem (13:12):
It's a house yeah, yeah, how much.
Well, these are the things wedo as agents.
Right, you got to get a dealdone.
Like I turned into a removalistthat day.
Like we, we changed the wholehome for her.
Joe (13:21):
I've got to just explain styling to our viewers and
listeners.
So whenever we're selling ahouse or we're getting a house
valued, you can bringprofessional stylists through
Correct.
Am I correct in saying thatthese are individuals that will
come in and uplift the value ofyour house through furniture
artwork, everything.
Karem (13:40):
So any brand new property that I sell, it is a mainstay
that I encourage my builders ormy vendors to style the property
because, number one, it's goingto photograph way better.
Number two, you can't do avideo with an empty property,
and video content is how we nowpush it further down the line
and get more eyeballs on it.
And number three, when peoplewalk in, they want to envisage
how they're going to live inthis house.
(14:01):
If a bedroom is small and youput a bed in it, all of a sudden
it doesn't become small anymore.
You alleviate concerns, youshow them how things will look
and they fall in love with it alot better.
So styling is a non-negotiable.
Five years ago no one wanted toknow about it.
Six, seven.
I remember when I first toldsomeone house, are you crazy?
I'm like that.
Five, six grand will get you 30, 40, yeah, believe me.
(14:22):
So now it's a mainstay.
Joe (14:24):
So the first time I ever experienced styling was, uh,
2018 lend lease.
We're selling a bunch ofapartments in the city and I was
working at macquarie at thetime and, uh, one of my clients
was purchasing a property inthere and they're like, oh, it's
three buildings over thisshowroom.
Come and have a look.
And I walked in and they've gotthe furniture and they've got
(14:45):
the stone.
It would have cost them amillion and a half like $1.5
million to fit out thiscommercial suite in the
Lendlease building.
And the one thing I rememberedmore than anything was the smell
.
And then I came home and Ispoke to my brother and I was
like everything in it smells sogood.
And he goes yeah, becausethey're trying to hit you with
every single sense.
(15:05):
They're trying to hit you withthe lighting, they're trying to
get you with the touch.
They're trying to get you with.
You know the smell, everything,everything that you hear.
They're trying to get you withthat to make sure you sign the
contract of sale.
And I go yeah, that's right.
And then he turns to me and hegoes did you want to buy one?
And I go I was trying to thinkof every single dollar.
I had to try and buy one ofthese properties.
I wish I did, but like it'sabsolutely necessary, because if
(15:31):
I walk into an empty shell andit smells like six-day-old food,
I'm not going to buy that.
Karem (15:35):
No, there's no imagination.
You can't see yourself Like.
I've heard it a million times.
People walk into an empty house.
They're like oh, I don't know,I don't know if my dining table
will fit, I don't know if I'llget a lounge in here.
They just they can't see thevision.
So we need to show them thevision.
We need to really put it outthere and show them this is what
you're buying, this is how it'sgoing to look, Makes sense,
it's 2024.
Joe (15:54):
Yeah, however, belmore I know personally just because of
my community Belmore, roselands,punchbowl, condal Park, chester
Hill, Bass Hill every auctionhas 100 people there.
Yeah, why do you think that theproperty is so much more in
(16:16):
demand now than it was, let'ssay, eight years ago?
Or what's the difference to2024?
Is it CDC compliance?
Is it because people are moreaware of duplexes?
Are people more aware oftownhouses?
What do you think it is?
Why do you think the auctionsare a lot more packed?
Karem (16:32):
I think first and foremost is supply is down.
You look at all the keyindicators, realestatecom domain
, all these guys, they'll tellyou listings are down.
So naturally, in an environmentwhere supply is down, demand is
always going to go up, becauseyou've still got people every
day getting married, gettingdivorced, passing away.
Real estate is always going toturn, no matter what right, in a
(16:55):
down market or a hot market,it's always going to be real
estate.
But what we're seeing isthere's no shortage of supply
and also a shortage of supply ofbrand new builds as well.
So when they do come on themarket, you have this influx of
people that they can't getenough.
For instance, there's only onebrand new dwelling for sale in
Belmore at the moment, in thewhole suburb.
It's a duplex that I'm sellingand that's across all agents
(17:16):
Across the whole suburb.
Wow, there's one.
You go, look at it, there's one.
I mean, traditionally,belmore's not a huge suburb Like
we've probably got about 14,000dwellings Like so you don't get
.
It's not a suburb that we have30, 40 listings on at one go.
Yeah, but it's the only brandnew duplex for sale in the whole
suburb.
Wow.
So, traditionally, what do youthink's going to happen?
Supply and demand.
(17:37):
So that's a big key indicator.
I think I think interest ratesskewed the market when they were
so cheap during COVID.
A lot of people got used tothat rate, weren't aware of the
rates that we probably weresubjected to a little bit more
in the early 2000s and the late90s.
So we've seen that, we've beenthere, we've done that.
But everyone's kind of waiting.
I feel like everyone's kind ofsaying waiting for rates to drop
(18:00):
, waiting for rates to drop.
But the opposite's going tohappen.
You get one rate drop andthey're going to be charging
down the field, like Mel Gibsonand Braveheart.
I'm telling you I can see it.
I can see it.
Freedom, yeah, literally,literally, just like coming down
and they're going to be pouringin.
So my dad taught me a reallygood line a long, long time ago.
(18:20):
I'll never forget it.
And he goes real estate is youbuy expensive today, cheap
tomorrow.
I'm trying to understand thatin my head.
Joe (18:28):
It's expensive today, yeah, it's cheap tomorrow, yeah, you
know that is 100% correct.
Karem (18:34):
Never forget it.
Joe (18:35):
Yeah, I'm going to use that in my daily mantra.
Now you buy expensive.
Today it's cheap, tomorrowthat's it.
Karem (18:40):
He said it to me when I was a kid.
I was at an auction with him inMount Lewis never forget it and
he missed out on a property andhe was so angry with himself
and then everyone was like don'tworry, it was too expensive.
I remember he said to me he'slike real estate is cheap it's
(19:01):
expensive.
Joe (19:01):
Today it's.
You know, we've bashedMelbourne all the time, but when
people think of Australia, theythink of Sydney, yeah, they
think of Harbour Bridge,centrepointe Tower, opera House.
They come here and we aregetting that high amount of
migration like you spoke aboutearlier.
We are seeing the shortage indemand, so I think you're 100%
correct in saying that.
I do have one particularquestion, though.
(19:23):
Is it duplex sites that areextremely in demand across all
your suburbs?
Karem (19:29):
Yeah, A lot of guys will call me builders and say, do you
have anything, a duplex site?
And I ask them are youparticular on where Some people
really like to build in aparticular suburb?
Because they just know itreally well.
Others are like as long as itstacks, because they just know
it really well.
Others are like as long as itstacks If the numbers are right,
if I can buy and build and selland I'm making a profit margin,
I don't care where it is.
Joe (19:45):
There's one suburb I want to talk about, it's Belfield.
Yes, have you done much workthere?
Yes, so I was on the phone withmy cousin I think it was last
Saturday or the Saturday beforehe missed out on auction who
last few weeks he goes, oh, theproperty.
I was capped at 3.25.
The property went for 3.8.
And I actually sat there and Isaid to him over the phone I go
(20:07):
in Belfield and he goes yeah,Belfield, and growing up for me
Belfield was never a prominentarea Like it was.
Belfield was just next toBelmore, next to Lakemba kind of
thing, yeah, but now it's likeconsidered a pristine area.
It's a very hot suburb.
What's the?
Karem (20:23):
demographic, like who's moving into there?
So, a lot of young families,yeah, lots of young families,
and it's a combination of acouple of things, right?
So, as you said, belfield is inthe middle of Belmore and
Strathfield and Enfield yeah,hence the yeah, belmore Field
and Philstraffield yeah, acombination.
Michael (20:40):
Very, very creative.
Karem (20:41):
Yeah, doesn't have a train station, right?
Some people's mindset with thatis quite weird.
When I speak to buyers theylike the fact there's no train
station because they associatetrain stations with noise
hoodlums.
Whatever, the case is probablyback in the day and not so much
now, but that's one thing.
It's got a really, really goodschool, primary school, st
Michael's.
It's got a great park.
They've just upgraded Rudd Park.
(21:02):
They've done a track and fieldaround it.
It's got good cafe scenes, nicerestaurants.
You're a stone's throw away fromBelmore so you can catch a
train and get to the CBD.
You can drive to the M5.
You can drive to the M4.
You can get your kids in aschool in Strathfield.
So you don't have to go spend$10 million in Stratford and buy
an affluent home.
You can spend three and a halfto four maybe in Stratford and
buy a really kick-ass home andstill get your kids into the
(21:25):
high-end schools in Stratford.
Wow.
So it's got this communityfactor around it.
Like it is a very communitysuburb.
Everyone knows each other.
Like I'll drive through Belfordand I can pick out this person
lives here.
This person lives here.
This person lives here.
I'm actually selling a gorgeousbrand new duplex in Belford
right now at the moment, andwe're getting inundated with
(21:45):
inquiry Like it's just a hotsuburb.
I'll give my cousin Issa.
Joe (21:48):
Your number, yalla, you can sell him something, then Okay.
Karem (21:51):
I've spoken to him.
What Issa Dayoud yeah.
Joe (21:53):
Yeah.
Karem (21:55):
He was one of my groomsmen.
He lives in the townhouse.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've seen him.
Joe (22:00):
Are you selling his townhouse or is?
Karem (22:01):
that We've got to find something to buy first, but yeah
, I already know him.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Joe (22:06):
Once you look at us and you see the height and you see the
facial features, you're like, ohwait, you are cousins.
Karem (22:10):
Now that you've said that , I make the correlation.
Joe (22:12):
Can we put a picture of Issa and I next to each other?
Oh, fantastic, he's going to beso upset that I'm mentioning
him on this.
Yeah, I think that's all thetime that we have for this
episode.
If you want to catch, if youneed any help with finance or if
you need any help with yourhome loans, you can reach us at
wwwitsimplecomau and you canfind Karim at
(22:34):
mayfairrealestatecomau.
Karem (22:36):
On Instagram is Mayfair Real Estate and also myself, the
social agent on Instagram.
Joe (22:40):
That's some schmo.
My name is Joe, that's Karim,and thank you for tuning into
this episode of the Finance Showwith Joe.
Welcome to the Finance Show with Joe.
He's Joe.
I'm just some schmo.
We've got a very special guesttoday Karem Lakiss from Mayfair
Real Estate Welcome.
Karem (00:11):
Thank you, thanks guys, thanks for having me, Karem.
Joe (00:14):
I'm so happy to have you on you and I have been trying to
tee this up for months now.
Karem (00:17):
It's been a while.
Joe (00:18):
The bloke went to Lebanon, he went to Dubai.
He was cruising around theworld whilst the rest of us had
to endure winter.
He had the time of his life,but thank you so much for coming
.
Karem (00:26):
No, thanks for having me.
Joe (00:27):
It's a very funny story between Karem and I.
Karem actually used to be mylandlord over in Belmore, so
when we first started in Simple,we were moving around and we
were just trying to find thebest office space, but you were
the first person to actuallygive us a tenancy and you gave
us office space.
So I've always been grateful toKarim because he actually gave
us the opportunity to be able towork as a team and, you know,
(00:47):
work from a certain hub andreally build a culture.
So thank you so much, karim.
Karem (00:51):
No, thank you for joining us.
That was a new venture for us.
We bought that building and wehad no tenants, so we kind of
helped each other.
It was a good synergy.
Joe (00:58):
It was definitely a good synergy.
So, Karem, I just kind of wantto start this off with
introducing you.
You're a real estate agent andyou specialise in Belmore,
Belfield.
Can you give us the certainsuburbs that you're taking care
of at the moment?
Karem (01:10):
Yeah, so we are based in Belmore.
So the business is Mayfair RealEstate, owned by myself and my
business partner Chantal.
We specialise kind of inCanterbury, bankstown but inner
west sort of.
So Belmore is a little bitunique where you can go out into
the Canberra Bankstown districtlike suburbs like Le Canbar,
greenacre, bankstown, but thenalso venture back into Belfield,
roselands, kingsgrove, enfield,into the inner west a little
(01:32):
bit Dulwich Hill, marrickville.
We've had a few good sales inMarrickville so it's very
encompassing in terms of wherewe can go geographically.
But as I say to most peoplethese days, I don't believe
you're capped by where you areanymore.
I totally believe that realestate has transformed so much
in the last few years with thehelp of social media that you
know, as long as you're a goodagent, you can market correctly,
(01:53):
you can probably sell anywhereyou like.
Joe (01:55):
How did you get your start in real estate?
Karem (02:00):
So I'll try to be very short with this story.
I started real estate my careerin October of 2015.
So I was, like in my early tomid-30s sort of Previous to that
worked with Dad in the servicestation game since I was a kid,
since 14 years old, working infamily business, transitioned
out of that at the age of 30,worked with Emirates for about
three years at Sydney Airport asa ground handler for him and
(02:20):
then realised it was a great jobbut just wasn't what I wanted
to do.
Always loved real estate,always loved property.
Obviously, I like to speak, andyou'll find that out through
this podcast.
I love the art of negotiationand just helping people.
So I went and got my licencewhile working at Emirates and
then pretty much quit.
Once I got my licence, reachedout to a friend of mine in
Bankstown that owned an agency.
He gave me a shot.
(02:41):
I did two years with him andthen my business partner,
chantal, encouraged me to jumpon board and we started Mayfair.
And here we are.
Joe (02:49):
So I need to understand something Now.
If you go office, you willsee a massive monopoly.
Michael (02:57):
I was going to ask is Mayfair like Mayfair on the
monopoly board?
That's exactly what it is.
Karem (03:01):
It's the most expensive property on the monopoly board,
so the name actually came from agood friend of mine years ago,
before I was even thinking aboutdoing real estate.
He mentioned once and then,when we were thinking of
starting real estate, me andchantal were like what could we
call it?
And I made the suggestion andwe're just both like, yeah, this
is so us.
It's not traditional, it's alittle bit gimmicky, which is
what we wanted.
We wanted a fresh approach.
We still want to be conformedto the usual.
Joe (03:23):
Yeah because when you walk into you know Mayfair and
Belmore, you don't feel likeyou're in an old school 90s real
estate agency.
It's such a dynamic workenvironment.
It's very cultural.
I think the average age of theemployee there's like 25 or 27
or something.
Karem (03:43):
We're a very young team, yeah.
Joe (03:44):
So it's just such a.
It's refreshing, I think that'sthe best way to put it.
I feel refreshed going in thereand then I'm guessing that's a
massive point of difference foryour clients as well Like they
walk in and they're like oh,this is a lot more energetic
than you know.
Going to I'm not going to namenames but going to another real
estate agent.
Karem (04:01):
Yeah, 100%.
And that was our point ofdifference.
Like from the start we startedMayfair with a mindset of saying
we didn't want to do whateveryone else was doing.
I like to think I identifiedpretty early the start of like
social media and what I could dofor real estate, and that my
old employer will kind of capwith what we can do in terms of
video production and stuff.
No one was doing videos backthen for real estate, so we
(04:23):
always wanted to be a little bitleft of field and that's our
personality, like if you can'tbe who you are, there's no point
doing it, right?
So I'm only genuine to mysource.
I can only be who I am.
So our office is very funky.
There's speakers in the roof,there's a bar in the office.
You've seen the bar.
We've got a gong in the office.
(04:46):
I mean Like we're just, it's whowe are, we don't change it.
I swear I heard what I wantedto hear.
I heard bong.
No, definitely not a bong, agong G-O-N-G.
Joe (04:53):
Liam, get the TikTok camera out.
So just to deviate away frombongs, can you just give us a
little bit of insight as to whatyou've seen in the real estate
market over the last five years?
Karem (05:06):
Well, it's been a rollercoaster ride, hasn't it?
I think everyone's copped it.
Joe (05:09):
Yeah, In Arabic we call that kalnoha.
Karem (05:13):
Yeah, most definitely.
Look, I think… Going back nowfour years, maybe COVID, I think
, really changed the game foreveryone.
I still remember, vividlyremember, I had an auction on
the Saturday on the day where wehad the first COVID breakout in
2020, and they were likeliterally shutting things down
on the Saturday.
They were like they're going tocancel auctions, they're going
(05:34):
to cancel open homes.
And I had a vendor call and Iwas selling a property in
Belfield the brand new duplex,and it was stressing.
It was like what do we do?
Do we cancel it?
I'm like I've got buyers, Ithink we go, I think we proceed,
let's just get it going.
Thankfully, we sold it.
We broke a record during thosetimes.
But then I remember it was likethe world was going to fall
over.
Everyone was like propertyprices are going to drop.
(05:56):
The world's going to like thesky is going to.
It was a deceased estate, about500 plus square metres,
beautiful street, beautifulproperty, and I could not get
one person interested in it andI was like what is going on?
This thing is a diamond in therough.
I encouraged everyone.
I could think of developerscome, you can build a duplex on
it.
Overlooks the golf course.
No one wanted to touch itEventually sold it for $2
(06:16):
million.
That property today would sellfor $3 million in a heartbeat.
Joe (06:21):
Really.
Karem (06:21):
Property today would sell for $3 million in a heartbeat,
Really In a heartbeat.
And I've still got guys callingme today that I spoke to back
then saying to me I should havelistened to you.
I told you all no one fuckinglistened to me.
Joe (06:30):
This is what I've been trying to tell people for months
and months Just get into themarket.
And one key thing that I liketo bring up is councils are not
approving new dwellings and landruns out, and the way that
Sydney is positioned is theycan't go any further east than
(06:50):
Bondi.
Karem (06:51):
It's Bondi, and then there's water.
Joe (06:54):
There's no islands.
We don't do that stuff thatSingapore does, where they
reclaim land.
Michael (06:59):
Yeah, dubai, did that too.
Yeah, that was Dubai, wherethey do.
Is it called rec, right?
Yeah, dubai, the palm treething.
Joe (07:02):
Was that Dubai?
That was Dubai, when they do.
Is it called reclaimed land?
I think that's what it's called.
Japan does it as well, so we'relimited with the amount of
properties or new propertiesthat are going to be released.
Yeah.
And then on top of that, withthe building commissioner coming
in and high-rises being on thedown like nobody wants to live
in an apartment anymore becauseof strata fees, and you know all
(07:23):
the things that come with it,we now see properties are just
skyrocketing Land houses.
Anything that's new build, I'mimagining, is selling for quite
a lot, yeah new builds have gonethrough the roof.
Karem (07:33):
Further to what you're saying, not only is it becoming
scarce with land, but thebuilding cost is astronomical.
Yeah, so what's happened island prices have gone up, so
building prices have gone up.
So how do they justify itanymore?
How does a builder now payovers for the land?
Then it's costing him double tobuild.
So where's he going to get hisgross realisation from?
Yeah, the client Probably not.
(07:55):
Yeah, you know, I try to alwayseducate my buyers and say look
if you have to do it yourself,but it doesn't always correlate
that way.
No, you know what I mean.
So it's getting dicey out there.
Michael (08:05):
Yeah, I mean, there's so many builders who feel like
closing down recently.
Do we have a number for that?
We talked about this in anotherepisode.
Joe (08:10):
Yeah, it was like yeah, I think it was like 56 shut down
in the month of July or June orsomething.
Michael (08:21):
Yeah, where do they make?
Karem (08:22):
Because I heard that builders the costs have gone up,
but they have to keep theirprices low to remain competitive
, because someone else will justcome in and cut them off.
Michael (08:31):
So what do they do?
They close.
Karem (08:39):
D on't well, there's nothing you can do.
And don't forget, immigrationis not slowing down.
No, In fact, it's doubling andtripling.
Joe (08:39):
Don't bring that up.
So yeah well we all know it.
Apparently, I'm on an ASIO listbecause I've been telling
people off well, telling AnthonyAlbanese off, just being like,
hey, mate, like there's a lot ofkids, kids under the age of 25,
that can't afford propertyright now because of the level
of migration.
I'm not saying stop migration,I'm a migrant.
(09:00):
You know, my brother and mysister were born in Lebanon.
You know my parents areLebanese.
I'm a first-generationAustralian.
I'm just saying just pump thebrakes a little bit.
You know, like I understand, weneed to keep the economy going.
They can't do anything aboutinterest rates because inflation
is still high, but like we'vegot to do something.
You know, and we spoke aboutthis off camera, you're not
(09:23):
seeing many buyers under the ageof 25 in your areas, are you
Not?
Karem (09:26):
in my areas, I mean, the medium house price in Belmore is
probably about 1.2, 1.3.
And like that's a three-bedroomthat needs a lot of work, yeah
Right.
So a brand-new duplex, forinstance, $2 million is your
entry level.
Joe (09:41):
Wow.
Karem (09:42):
So not many people can afford those ranges, especially
in the lower end of the market.
So a lot of my buyers yes, theyare kind of 35 plus what I am
seeing is a lot of downsizes aswell buying brand new properties
.
So maybe they want to enjoy thelast part of their lives in
something really nice and welldone Boutique.
Yeah, 100%.
And also parents assistingtheir children, buying homes,
(10:04):
and a common conversation is ifI don't help them, who's going
to help them?
I need to get them to themarket.
I need to get them to themarket, whether it's a unit or
if it's someone more wealthy andthey can afford to buy
themselves, their child, a nicebig home, so be it.
And I've had a couple of thosestories as well.
Joe (10:19):
I had a borrower recently contact me and he's in his 60s.
He's done very well for himself.
You know.
He's done commercial propertiesand everything and, as we all
know, property just keeps goingup.
He has three kids and he giftedthem $500,000 each to go and
buy a property.
That's insane, okay, like Ihear that and I'm like whoa,
(10:41):
that is like cash, like not, not, not.
Michael (10:44):
He's the one who's got it under the mask.
Joe (10:46):
Yeah, yeah.
But I just kind of like heardthat and I was like whoa.
But then I thought to myselflike this guy's actually helping
his kids out, this guy's reallylike just making sure his kids
are set up Similar to what yousaid.
If he doesn't help them, who'sgoing to?
Karem (11:00):
Because the Similar to what you said.
If he doesn't help them, who'sgoing to?
Because the government doesn't.
Well, I've got one better thanthat, if you've got time for a
really quick story.
Joe (11:04):
No, no, go, shoot, shoot, shoot.
Karem (11:05):
I was selling a property in Roselands last year, met
these buyers an older couple,husband and wife, walked in
shorts, t-shirt in thongs,unassuming, you know, I've
always learned a rule in realestate ever.
Anyway, they came in, it was abrand new great home.
Price guide was about 3.2, 3.3.
Comes in, sees me and he's like, yeah, looking for my daughter,
(11:26):
I'm like no problem.
He walked around, came back andsaw me.
He goes I really love thishouse, I really love it.
He goes you can't come heretoday.
I go what are you looking atspending?
Like, what's the budget?
$4 million to spend for eachchild to buy him a house.
He goes I've bought him all ahouse and this is the last one.
And in my head I'm like what?
And he goes it's all cash.
He goes no finance, it's all inthe bank, $16 million In the
(11:48):
bank.
So I'm like, okay, so we bringthe daughter through.
She doesn't like the house andI couldn't believe her.
I would have just hated it.
Michael (11:59):
Yeah, I would have just been like yeah, thank you.
Karem (12:00):
Anyway, I met them, like last September, I stayed with
them.
I stayed with them Because Iknew I had a red hot buyer.
When you identify a buyer, youalways want to sell them
something right?
Yeah, I listed this othergorgeous property in Roselands
earlier this year in.
February and I called himstraight away.
I go, mate.
His name Came to the open.
I had 30 people in the openhome.
He shows up, he looks aroundand he just goes back to the
(12:23):
house fresco.
He just sits on the lounge,hums out and the daughter came
through and he goes.
I'll wait until they're alldone.
They're all finished and hegoes.
What do you want for it?
I go, mate three will buy ittoday.
He goes.
All right, he goes.
I'll come you Monday evening.
He goes.
My daughter's not sure aboutthe living room.
I brought them all through.
Everyone came.
She was worried about the couchand the configuration so I made
(12:45):
everyone reconfigure thestyling.
We picked up couches.
Are you talking?
Joe (12:48):
about styling.
Karem (12:49):
Yeah, because she couldn't work it out.
We picked up couches, we movedcouches, I opened up the dining
for her.
I reconfigured the whole layout.
I go, it works.
I'm like done.
He's like all right, let's do adeal.
I'm like done.
2.95 million, sign the contractthe next day.
Michael (13:04):
Soldi I, I'm just like damn I'm just a luxury, to just
be like I'm not sure if thestyling's gonna work, I'd rock
up and go to a house and go.
Karem (13:12):
It's a house yeah, yeah, how much.
Well, these are the things wedo as agents.
Right, you got to get a dealdone.
Like I turned into a removalistthat day.
Like we, we changed the wholehome for her.
Joe (13:21):
I've got to just explain styling to our viewers and
listeners.
So whenever we're selling ahouse or we're getting a house
valued, you can bringprofessional stylists through
Correct.
Am I correct in saying thatthese are individuals that will
come in and uplift the value ofyour house through furniture
artwork, everything.
Karem (13:40):
So any brand new property that I sell, it is a mainstay
that I encourage my builders ormy vendors to style the property
because, number one, it's goingto photograph way better.
Number two, you can't do avideo with an empty property,
and video content is how we nowpush it further down the line
and get more eyeballs on it.
And number three, when peoplewalk in, they want to envisage
how they're going to live inthis house.
(14:01):
If a bedroom is small and youput a bed in it, all of a sudden
it doesn't become small anymore.
You alleviate concerns, youshow them how things will look
and they fall in love with it alot better.
So styling is a non-negotiable.
Five years ago no one wanted toknow about it.
Six, seven.
I remember when I first toldsomeone house, are you crazy?
I'm like that.
Five, six grand will get you 30, 40, yeah, believe me.
(14:22):
So now it's a mainstay.
Joe (14:24):
So the first time I ever experienced styling was, uh,
2018 lend lease.
We're selling a bunch ofapartments in the city and I was
working at macquarie at thetime and, uh, one of my clients
was purchasing a property inthere and they're like, oh, it's
three buildings over thisshowroom.
Come and have a look.
And I walked in and they've gotthe furniture and they've got
(14:45):
the stone.
It would have cost them amillion and a half like $1.5
million to fit out thiscommercial suite in the
Lendlease building.
And the one thing I rememberedmore than anything was the smell
.
And then I came home and Ispoke to my brother and I was
like everything in it smells sogood.
And he goes yeah, becausethey're trying to hit you with
every single sense.
(15:05):
They're trying to hit you withthe lighting, they're trying to
get you with the touch.
They're trying to get you with.
You know the smell, everything,everything that you hear.
They're trying to get you withthat to make sure you sign the
contract of sale.
And I go yeah, that's right.
And then he turns to me and hegoes did you want to buy one?
And I go I was trying to thinkof every single dollar.
I had to try and buy one ofthese properties.
I wish I did, but like it'sabsolutely necessary, because if
(15:31):
I walk into an empty shell andit smells like six-day-old food,
I'm not going to buy that.
Karem (15:35):
No, there's no imagination.
You can't see yourself Like.
I've heard it a million times.
People walk into an empty house.
They're like oh, I don't know,I don't know if my dining table
will fit, I don't know if I'llget a lounge in here.
They just they can't see thevision.
So we need to show them thevision.
We need to really put it outthere and show them this is what
you're buying, this is how it'sgoing to look, Makes sense,
it's 2024.
Joe (15:54):
Yeah, however, belmore I know personally just because of
my community Belmore, roselands,punchbowl, condal Park, chester
Hill, Bass Hill every auctionhas 100 people there.
Yeah, why do you think that theproperty is so much more in
(16:16):
demand now than it was, let'ssay, eight years ago?
Or what's the difference to2024?
Is it CDC compliance?
Is it because people are moreaware of duplexes?
Are people more aware oftownhouses?
What do you think it is?
Why do you think the auctionsare a lot more packed?
Karem (16:32):
I think first and foremost is supply is down.
You look at all the keyindicators, realestatecom domain
, all these guys, they'll tellyou listings are down.
So naturally, in an environmentwhere supply is down, demand is
always going to go up, becauseyou've still got people every
day getting married, gettingdivorced, passing away.
Real estate is always going toturn, no matter what right, in a
(16:55):
down market or a hot market,it's always going to be real
estate.
But what we're seeing isthere's no shortage of supply
and also a shortage of supply ofbrand new builds as well.
So when they do come on themarket, you have this influx of
people that they can't getenough.
For instance, there's only onebrand new dwelling for sale in
Belmore at the moment, in thewhole suburb.
It's a duplex that I'm sellingand that's across all agents
(17:16):
Across the whole suburb.
Wow, there's one.
You go, look at it, there's one.
I mean, traditionally,belmore's not a huge suburb Like
we've probably got about 14,000dwellings Like so you don't get
.
It's not a suburb that we have30, 40 listings on at one go.
Yeah, but it's the only brandnew duplex for sale in the whole
suburb.
Wow.
So, traditionally, what do youthink's going to happen?
Supply and demand.
(17:37):
So that's a big key indicator.
I think I think interest ratesskewed the market when they were
so cheap during COVID.
A lot of people got used tothat rate, weren't aware of the
rates that we probably weresubjected to a little bit more
in the early 2000s and the late90s.
So we've seen that, we've beenthere, we've done that.
But everyone's kind of waiting.
I feel like everyone's kind ofsaying waiting for rates to drop
(18:00):
, waiting for rates to drop.
But the opposite's going tohappen.
You get one rate drop andthey're going to be charging
down the field, like Mel Gibsonand Braveheart.
I'm telling you I can see it.
I can see it.
Freedom, yeah, literally,literally, just like coming down
and they're going to be pouringin.
So my dad taught me a reallygood line a long, long time ago.
(18:20):
I'll never forget it.
And he goes real estate is youbuy expensive today, cheap
tomorrow.
I'm trying to understand thatin my head.
Joe (18:28):
It's expensive today, yeah, it's cheap tomorrow, yeah, you
know that is 100% correct.
Karem (18:34):
Never forget it.
Joe (18:35):
Yeah, I'm going to use that in my daily mantra.
Now you buy expensive.
Today it's cheap, tomorrowthat's it.
Karem (18:40):
He said it to me when I was a kid.
I was at an auction with him inMount Lewis never forget it and
he missed out on a property andhe was so angry with himself
and then everyone was like don'tworry, it was too expensive.
I remember he said to me he'slike real estate is cheap it's
(19:01):
expensive.
Joe (19:01):
Today it's.
You know, we've bashedMelbourne all the time, but when
people think of Australia, theythink of Sydney, yeah, they
think of Harbour Bridge,centrepointe Tower, opera House.
They come here and we aregetting that high amount of
migration like you spoke aboutearlier.
We are seeing the shortage indemand, so I think you're 100%
correct in saying that.
I do have one particularquestion, though.
(19:23):
Is it duplex sites that areextremely in demand across all
your suburbs?
Karem (19:29):
Yeah, A lot of guys will call me builders and say, do you
have anything, a duplex site?
And I ask them are youparticular on where Some people
really like to build in aparticular suburb?
Because they just know itreally well.
Others are like as long as itstacks, because they just know
it really well.
Others are like as long as itstacks If the numbers are right,
if I can buy and build and selland I'm making a profit margin,
I don't care where it is.
Joe (19:45):
There's one suburb I want to talk about, it's Belfield.
Yes, have you done much workthere?
Yes, so I was on the phone withmy cousin I think it was last
Saturday or the Saturday beforehe missed out on auction who
last few weeks he goes, oh, theproperty.
I was capped at 3.25.
The property went for 3.8.
And I actually sat there and Isaid to him over the phone I go
(20:07):
in Belfield and he goes yeah,Belfield, and growing up for me
Belfield was never a prominentarea Like it was.
Belfield was just next toBelmore, next to Lakemba kind of
thing, yeah, but now it's likeconsidered a pristine area.
It's a very hot suburb.
What's the?
Karem (20:23):
demographic, like who's moving into there?
So, a lot of young families,yeah, lots of young families,
and it's a combination of acouple of things, right?
So, as you said, belfield is inthe middle of Belmore and
Strathfield and Enfield yeah,hence the yeah, belmore Field
and Philstraffield yeah, acombination.
Michael (20:40):
Very, very creative.
Karem (20:41):
Yeah, doesn't have a train station, right?
Some people's mindset with thatis quite weird.
When I speak to buyers theylike the fact there's no train
station because they associatetrain stations with noise
hoodlums.
Whatever, the case is probablyback in the day and not so much
now, but that's one thing.
It's got a really, really goodschool, primary school, st
Michael's.
It's got a great park.
They've just upgraded Rudd Park.
(21:02):
They've done a track and fieldaround it.
It's got good cafe scenes, nicerestaurants.
You're a stone's throw away fromBelmore so you can catch a
train and get to the CBD.
You can drive to the M5.
You can drive to the M4.
You can get your kids in aschool in Strathfield.
So you don't have to go spend$10 million in Stratford and buy
an affluent home.
You can spend three and a halfto four maybe in Stratford and
buy a really kick-ass home andstill get your kids into the
(21:25):
high-end schools in Stratford.
Wow.
So it's got this communityfactor around it.
Like it is a very communitysuburb.
Everyone knows each other.
Like I'll drive through Belfordand I can pick out this person
lives here.
This person lives here.
This person lives here.
I'm actually selling a gorgeousbrand new duplex in Belford
right now at the moment, andwe're getting inundated with
(21:45):
inquiry Like it's just a hotsuburb.
I'll give my cousin Issa.
Joe (21:48):
Your number, yalla, you can sell him something, then Okay.
Karem (21:51):
I've spoken to him.
What Issa Dayoud yeah.
Joe (21:53):
Yeah.
Karem (21:55):
He was one of my groomsmen.
He lives in the townhouse.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've seen him.
Joe (22:00):
Are you selling his townhouse or is?
Karem (22:01):
that We've got to find something to buy first, but yeah
, I already know him.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Joe (22:06):
Once you look at us and you see the height and you see the
facial features, you're like, ohwait, you are cousins.
Karem (22:10):
Now that you've said that , I make the correlation.
Joe (22:12):
Can we put a picture of Issa and I next to each other?
Oh, fantastic, he's going to beso upset that I'm mentioning
him on this.
Yeah, I think that's all thetime that we have for this
episode.
If you want to catch, if youneed any help with finance or if
you need any help with yourhome loans, you can reach us at
wwwitsimplecomau and you canfind Karim at
(22:34):
mayfairrealestatecomau.
Karem (22:36):
On Instagram is Mayfair Real Estate and also myself, the
social agent on Instagram.
Joe (22:40):
That's some schmo.
My name is Joe, that's Karim,and thank you for tuning into
this episode of the Finance Showwith Joe.
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