July 1, 2025 • 23 mins
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Fiscal Physical Podcast.
Join us each week as we sitdown with the founder of Alchemy
Wealth Management and author ofyour Fiscal Physical, Ryan
Nelson.
Tune in to gain valuableinsights and practical tips as
we simplify complex financialconcepts into digestible lessons
(00:22):
.
From budgeting to retirementplanning, this podcast is your
go-to resource for masteringfinancial literacy.
Aaron Hoisington (00:33):
Welcome everybody to this week's episode
of the Fiscal Physical Podcast.
My name's Aaron.
I am joined again and always byMr Ryan Nelson, the founder of
Alchemy Wealth.
Management and one of my goodbuddies.
Ryan Nelson (00:46):
Ryan, how are you today?
I am doing well.
How are you doing today?
Aaron Hoisington (00:48):
Doing all right, man, I'm doing all right,
ready to dive into anotherepisode and just continue to
learn, continue to spend timewith one of my good friends and
hopefully share some of ourknowledge or lack of knowledge
with our listeners out there.
So let's go ahead and dive intoit.
If you're ready to go, let's doit.
Perfect, so this is going to bea fun topic.
(01:10):
I was really excited to writethis one.
It's all about pet ownershipand the financial costs that
come with it.
So I know, ryan and you couldshare it with the listeners, but
you are a pet owner, if I'm notmistaken.
I am uh, it's, uh, nova is isher name and uh, we want to give
a little backstory about what,uh, what she is oh, she's a dog,
yeah, yeah, okay, perfect yeahoh sweet, yeah.
(01:33):
What, how old?
What are we working?
Ryan Nelson (01:34):
with here.
Uh, she is, I think, about sixuh lab border collie around six.
Aaron Hoisington (01:39):
Nice, so you've had, and you got her when
she was pretty young too.
Yeah, yeah, so you've had herfor six that.
So you've had her for six.
That's crazy.
You've had her for six years.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
That's wild to think about.
Aaron Hoisington (01:48):
Yeah, it is.
That just blew my mind therefor a minute, but awesome.
Well, I'm also a proud petowner.
I got a cat named Reggie.
He's about 11 years old.
He's kind of a mean cat ifwe're being honest, but he's our
cat and so um love the guy todeath Him and I spend quite a
bit of time together.
It's a.
Ryan Nelson (02:05):
Turkish van Sure.
Aaron Hoisington (02:07):
Yeah, he sent me that the other day and I was
like I don't know what thatmeans.
I had to look it up but itlooks like him if you just start
the hissing.
But, um, overall I would saythat pet ownership and owning
pets is a monster thing here inthe United States, a huge part
of our culture all around theworld really.
But we really hammer at homehere in the United States.
You see, people go above andbeyond for their pets, which is
(02:29):
great.
I do the same as well.
But I'm curious, ryan, aboutlet's dive into the topic of
what are some of the costs ofpet ownership that people one
might not be knowing, might notbe thinking about, and kind of
how that affects the decision,to how it affects their
financials overall.
So let's go ahead and dive in.
I'll let you take it away.
Ryan Nelson (02:50):
Yeah.
So before we dive into that,what do you think?
How big do you think theyproject the pet industry to be
in, let's say, 2030?
Oh man, 2030.
Aaron Hoisington (03:06):
Five years, five years from now, it's got to
be.
Just massive man.
It's got to be.
I'm going to say $500 million,ooh, that's a good guess $500?
.
Ryan Nelson (03:16):
Yeah, $500 billion.
Oh my gosh.
Aaron Hoisington (03:19):
With a B.
Ryan Nelson (03:20):
Yeah, so they project in 2030.
Aaron Hoisington (03:24):
What.
Ryan Nelson (03:24):
And by they I just mean Google's AI function.
Sure, who knows who it is, butnor do I really care.
But either way, it's just ahuge, huge industry, right, and
it's like one of the fastestgrowing industries, I think.
So, to your point, we spend awhole heck of a lot of money on
pets right.
Yes, and so we had an episode afew weeks back about
homeownership.
I actually kind of think aboutand approach this in a similar
(03:47):
way.
Okay, and so we'll talk aboutsome of the upfront costs, some
of the ongoing costs and stuff.
But yeah, so obviously pets canbring a lot of joy, but many of
us overlook the financialcommitment of that pet.
So anytime you get a pet,obviously there's more than just
a financial commitment, butthere is a financial commitment
to that pet.
Obviously there's more thanjust a financial commitment, but
there is a financial commitmentto that pet.
(04:08):
And so I'll be a littlefacetious here.
But financial planning isn'tjust for us and our goals, but
our pets need it as well, right?
So 100%.
If we're getting an animal.
We should probably do again alittle facetious here, but a
little bit of financial planningand honesty to make sure you
can afford that pet.
So let's talk about some of theinitial costs.
So there's adoption fees.
So if you're going to a shelterso you mentioned Nova earlier I
(04:30):
got Nova from, I think it wasthe Humane Society, and even
from the Humane Society she'snot free.
I think typical costs aresomewhere in the neighborhood of
$50 to $250.
And that's again if you'regetting from a shelter.
If you're buying from a breeder, I was looking at other dogs.
(04:50):
We had Rhodesian Ridgebacksgrowing up.
I was looking at gettingpurebred Ridgebacks, big dog,
yep, big big dog.
But those are $3,000 plus and Iknow there's other dogs that
cost a whole heck of a lot morethan that right.
So if you're getting from abreeder, you could be talking
about multiple thousands ofdollars to initially buy this
dog.
Um, uh, if you're getting froma shelter, um, you know it's
going to be a fraction of that,but there's still some costs
(05:11):
there.
And then you're you know whatall kind of still refer to as
like upfront, um, you're goingto have to spay or neuter that
animal.
I think most shelters they'llcome spayed or neutered.
But if you're getting a dogfrom like a breeder or a cat,
you're going to need to spay orneuter it.
It's going to have to havevaccines.
You should get it microchipped.
You know you're talking anothercouple hundred bucks to a
(05:32):
thousand bucks there and thenyou're going to need some kind
of starter supplies.
Right, it's almost like thehouse when you have to buy the
couch and stuff, right, yeah,exactly.
So you're going to need a dogbed, you're going to need maybe
a crate, you're going to needleash, you're going to need food
and water, bowls, toys, litterbox, right.
There's just kind of all theselike one-off expenses you need
initially for the dog or cat,right, and so there's another
(05:54):
couple hundred bucks.
So you might spend a couplehundred bucks on the adoption
fees, a couple hundred bucks onthe first year's medical costs
and a couple hundred bucks onsort of starter supplies.
So it's reasonable to think youmight be out a thousand plus,
certainly if you're buying froma breeder much more than that
sort of just right off the bat,yep, right.
Then you obviously have ongoingannual expenses.
(06:14):
These are a little harder, butI mean, I got some numbers here.
So you're going to have food forthe animal, right.
That could be anywhere between250 to $700 a year for food.
It obviously greatly depends onon what you're, what you're
feeding them, right.
I think, um, I think Nova'sfood costs like 40 bucks a month
, approximately 40 bucks a month.
(06:34):
So you're talking 500 bucks ayear there, right?
So kind of right in the middleof these, uh, these ranges, and
then you know, in theory, youshould be taking them to their
vet for some routine visits,kind of like what you know.
We do our routine medicalcheckups with our doctors.
And then there's somepreventative medicines.
Maybe there's heartworm,there's flea like there's tick
(06:57):
medicine.
I don't know if medicines, I'mnot a vet.
But there's like the fleaprevention, tick prevention,
heartworm prevention, right.
Those could cost in thehundreds of dollars a year.
There's depending on the breed.
Some breeds, actually, I think,have to be groomed, otherwise
their hair gets like matted orwhatever, yeah, so if you're
(07:20):
getting one of those breeds,then you're sort of committing
to some grooming, right?
Depending on your sort ofphilosophies, you may choose to
do training classes right,there's a few hundred more
dollars, right, there'scertainly optional.
But you may explore petinsurance.
That's oftentimes somewhere inthe neighborhood of $20 to $70 a
month for this pet insurance.
(07:42):
And then you may also havecosts for if you're traveling,
you might have to board theanimal, or if you're busy, you
might have to pay somebody towalk your dog, right.
So there's these other expensesthat, again, just not
everybody's going to need allthese expenses, but some people
will need some of them, and alot of them are expenses.
That, again, just noteverybody's going to need all
these expenses, but some peoplewill need some of them, and a
lot of them are expenses thatpeople don't originally think
(08:03):
about.
You know, like, doggy daycareis another one.
A lot of people will take theirdogs to doggy daycare, right,
again, none of those arenecessarily required, but, again
, some people do choose topursue them and those are just
costs that add up right.
Aaron Hoisington (08:19):
And I think that a good piece here, too, is
like you think about, likeyou're speaking from personal
opinion, like with a dog, like Ithink about like from I have a
cat and I would say that,relatively speaking, you have
some of the same costs.
This isn't even thinking aboutlike if you have a pet horse or
something like that.
Ryan Nelson (08:36):
Oh yeah, for sure Like something along those lines
A horse is going to beexpensive, or something like
that.
Aaron Hoisington (08:39):
Oh yeah, yeah, for sure, like something along
those lines.
A horse is going to beexpensive, but I think a dog is
a relatively good one to usebecause it's I don't know if
it's the most common, and rightnow I would assume.
Yeah, sure, but like, I think adog is a good middle ground
because, you could also havelike a fish.
Yeah, yeah, true.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, butyou really expensive pet or a
really cheap pet.
But I think a dog is a veryalmost every.
(09:00):
It can really, you know,resonate with the listeners for
something here too.
So, but, yeah, I think theseare, these are their numbers are
adding up yeah, right, yeah,yeah definitely I was kind of
thinking more along the lines ofdogs and cats.
Ryan Nelson (09:10):
obviously there's like birds and fish and all that
stuff.
My gut tells me that cats areprobably cheaper than dogs.
I could be wrong there, but Idon't know.
But then so those are all.
All those expenses I listed maynot necessarily be expected on
the front end, but they're allexpenses you can kind of plan
for.
Then there's going to be somereally unexpected costs like
(09:33):
emergency vet visits.
Your dog or cat gets hurt ordoes something that you just
literally couldn't plan for andyou have that emergency vet
visit.
Really hard to put a cost onthat right, but typically if
you're taking them to anemergency vet you're not getting
out of there for less than 500bucks right, just walking in
there.
Then there's certain surgeriesthat they might have to have,
(09:53):
right, there's chronic illnessesand medicine.
There's a lot of animals who'vebeen on medicine you know
medications for years, right,and that adds up and so, similar
to the house, it's probably nota bad idea to have like a pet
emergency fund, right, youshould be sort of budgeting If
you have this added sort ofresponsibility.
(10:15):
You should know, like okay,this is another thing that I
have these added potentialexpenses for.
Now, maybe a pet emergency fundis only like a thousand bucks
or 2000 bucks, right, I'm notsaying it has to be 30 or 40,000
, right, but maybe you have athousand bucks set aside, okay,
this can cover any emergency formy dog or cat, right, yeah, and
so I always think, as you'resort of budgeting this, just
(10:37):
including your pets in yourmonthly and annual budget is
wise, right, it's just anexpense that you have.
So your dog's food or your cat'sfood, your dog's annual visit,
it's just another expense thatyou have and I would think of it
, just budgeting it into yournormal budget.
I wouldn't get it do anythingtoo complicated there, but using
things like a sort of a petemergency fund, maybe it's a
(10:58):
thousand bucks, it doesn't haveto be anything too crazy.
If you're into pet insurance,if that's your thing, definitely
do your due diligence incomparing the different
providers.
Also, consider self-insuringright.
So again, if your emergencyfund let's say your personal,
just normal emergency fund is at50 grand, that might be able to
(11:18):
cover every expense for bothyourself and your pet.
And you may say I don't reallyneed a dog insurance.
I got enough in my emergencysavings total, so just consider
self-insuring versus gettingthat pet insurance.
And then obviously, there'ssome planning considerations
around time and travel.
How I think of this circlingback into financial planning is
(11:40):
you know this I feel like peopledon't always think about this,
but everybody thinks about theirkids, right?
Oftentimes, one of the mostcommon things I say is I'm going
to retire after my kids moveout of the house, Right, Right,
Sure.
And so it's very natural tolike think right, That'd be
great by the way you know, yeah,but a lot of times people don't
always think about theiranimals.
and then they say I have thisretirement goal to get an RV and
(12:05):
see all 50 states when I retire.
Right, it's like, okay, but youhave a dog.
I don't see how those you can'tbe taking the dog in the RV, no,
so you're going to board yourdog for a year.
So while dogs are not nearly asbig of a commitment as, say, a
child, it is a commitment andthen I do think it needs to like
time commitment of it needs tobe calculated into your
(12:26):
retirement plan as well.
Right, um and uh, yeah.
So just something to thinkabout there which is interesting
and I find most people overlookAbsolutely.
Aaron Hoisington (12:34):
Yeah, just to think about that of like oh,
yeah, we're going to take this.
Even just you think about, oh,we're going to take this.
Even just you think about, oh,we're going to take this
week-long trip to wherever.
Immediately, my first thoughtin my mind is like okay, cool,
what are we going to do with our?
Speaker 1 (12:46):
cat or our dog.
Aaron Hoisington (12:48):
What's going to go, what's happening with
that, who's going to watch them?
And hopefully you'll havesomething in place for some
things like that.
But it is funny, man, to thinkabout the, to think about the.
You know, people mention andI've had dogs growing up, had
cats growing up, had all sortsof animals, but right now just
have the cat, thankfully.
But people talk about like, oh,like I have a dog, like it's
(13:12):
the same as like a kid orsomething like that, and I
always say like no, it's not,but there are a lot of
similarities with it.
Like that I would say that youhave to think about that.
If you're a pet owner, that'sprobably your first thought,
that you have to think aboutthat.
If you're a pet owner, that'sprobably your first thought for
these certain things, and that'show it's like.
Ryan Nelson (13:22):
I mean, I know I have a college savings account
for my dog.
Yeah, no, naturally.
Yeah, she's very smart.
Aaron Hoisington (13:28):
We're hoping for Harvard, but I think that
there's certain things thatdefinitely play into your
financial planning with it ofwhere you have to take into
consideration your animal and,like you mentioned, the
emergency funder.
I think people are like oh,it'll never, you don't think it
happens.
Or like, for myself, you don'treally know how attached you get
(13:48):
to these animals too.
You're like a couple of yearsback our cat Reggie got sick and
I always said I was like, oh,if it's too expensive, we're
just going to put him down atthat point because we don't have
the money to pay for it.
Darn it if we didn't spend waytoo much money on this cat to
make sure he was okay.
Immediately Didn't even thinkabout it, it was cost came
(14:10):
second.
So, you can't underestimate thevalue of joy that animals can
bring to you, but also thefinancial cost that goes with
them can bring to you, but alsolike, the financial costs that
goes with them.
And a lot of times you justhave to be aware that, cool,
where are we okay with like, orshould we get a dog?
Do we have the capacity totrain it?
Like?
What do we want to do with this?
Overall, and taking into thoselogical things of just the
(14:32):
financial once again, not superfun to do but it's necessary in
the long run if you're trying toplan well.
Ryan Nelson (14:41):
And, like you said, I don't think like a dog is
anywhere on the same level of acommitment as like a child.
But there are some parallels,right, absolutely.
And like.
Another one is like you get adog, that dog depending on the
breed you get I could have a 15,16, 17 year.
You know life a kid is usuallyliving in your house until
they're like 18.
(15:01):
Like you know, you may belooking at a similar timeframe.
Not, we're not talking aboutfinancial expense, but timeframe
.
Right, and again to your point,you're these, these, these
animals do require a timecommitment from you.
So, as you're doing financialplanning and thinking and trying
to solve about what you wantmaybe it's travel, maybe it's
whatever um, you still need toplan.
(15:22):
If you're getting a dog today,this is still impacting you five
years from now, 10 years fromnow, potentially 15 years from
now, right, so something whereyou should just be planning
accordingly, both on thefinancial side, but also just on
the goals-based.
Again, all of our financialplanning here at Alchemy is
always goals-based planning.
Aaron Hoisington (15:51):
So I would kind of think about that in the
same terms as you're getting ananimal, how does this space
affect your like goals basedplanning?
Right, and it's both on thefinancial side and the time side
.
But obviously, like you said,they, they, you know it can be
emotional and it's hard tosometimes.
You know you this thing theother day it was like the first
week of owning a cat or whatever, and your first day their guy's
like all right, whatever, thiscat's fine, like he's just
hanging, yeah, yeah, like we.
Day two, you're like I stilldon't know what this guy's doing
.
Like day three, I'll die for you, yeah you're just like and I
(16:12):
feel like it just goes into petownership of, like you know, we,
we value our pets here like anduh, better or worse, that's
kind of what we are and they'rea part of our lives, and so you
should definitely planfinancially for it without a
doubt.
Ryan Nelson (16:26):
Yeah, so I'll maybe close this out here by saying
like again, like I know I'mbeing facetious and it's kind of
a joke, but also, at the sametime, there's like a half truth
to this, like you know.
Yes, you should have like afinancial plan for your animal
right.
Like you should plan financially, you should understand what the
implications of getting thatanimal are, and there are
financial considerations.
So yeah, just you know thatshould be a piece of your plan.
(16:48):
Is it the biggest piece of yourplan?
No, of course not, absolutelynot.
But it is an implication and itis a consideration.
It is a piece of that plan, sodon't forget to consider it, yep
.
Aaron Hoisington (16:59):
Absolutely Awesome.
I love it, ryan.
Well, thank you so much.
Thanks everyone for listening.
Hang tight, we'll be right backwith some personal fun.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Hang tight and now to put the personal in personal
finance.
Aaron Hoisington (17:13):
Welcome back everybody to this side of the
Fiscal Physical Podcast.
I feel like I say this everyweek, but I'm always very
excited to ask you this question, ryan, as I I think it really
uh is applicable to you overall.
So, um, I uh, um wanted to uhask you what is your favorite
board game?
Uh, if you guys don't know ryanon a personal level, he's a
(17:34):
board, he's a game enthusiast,loves games of all shapes and
sizes.
But I specifically know thatyou really enjoy board games.
Ryan Nelson (17:43):
Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah, I like board games a
lot.
Did you know I'm going to aweekly board game?
No, I didn't know.
Oh yeah.
So I go to a board game likegroup every single week and I
play like all these new boardgames and stuff Really, oh yeah.
How'd you find that like, is itjust, uh, just kind of a long
story?
But just stumbled upon it, metsome people, um, and heard about
it.
I was like heck, yeah, I likeboard games, I'll come and then.
(18:04):
Yeah, um, been going prettymuch ever since awesome.
Aaron Hoisington (18:06):
That's phenomenal.
Ryan Nelson (18:07):
Yeah, great um so, um, it's kind of funny.
So.
So, like, I love board games,but, like these, these group of
people play a lot more boardgames than I ever had, right, so
they've played way more and sothey've exposed me to way more
games.
Um and uh, so, um, real quick,I just had a curiosity.
Could you guess who my favoriteboard game designer is?
Uh no I don't think I couldyeah okay, I would just think
(18:29):
hasbro, yeah, uh
Aaron Hoisington (18:32):
I I know a lot of uh so, anyways, maybe I
don't play enough board.
Ryan Nelson (18:37):
No, you definitely don't um, but anyway, so, um, uh
, settlers of I always refer toit as settlers of katan uh,
everybody else refers to it assettlers of katan.
Aaron Hoisington (18:47):
Uh, yeah, I refuse to call it that.
Ryan Nelson (18:48):
Yes, katan, yeah, uh, incite some riots, yeah yeah
, um, but uh, that was like mygateway game.
Uh, I remember playing a ton ofthat in like college and stuff
we'd have like everybody, likehanging out in the apartment
playing Settlers and so that waskind of my like gateway game
and that's like most people whoplay a lot of board games.
That's like one of everybody'sgateway games.
Oh really yeah, and so it'skind of funny.
(19:09):
So, like a lot of people whoplay board games a lot don't
want to play that becauseeverybody always wants to play
it.
Yeah, and so kind of funny.
But so Settlers of Catan orCatan, if you want to be proper,
always will have sort of aspecial place in my heart,
definitely.
I have the app on my phone.
I play it like almost every day, probably.
Nice, yeah, and Klaus Tuber isthe designer of that game.
(19:31):
Okay, and so you may have heardjokes around about Klaus Tuber,
but he's a cool guy.
But, as I've gotten to exposeto more games, there's a board
designer called Reiner Kniziaand he's designed like I think
literally it sounds likehundreds and hundreds of games.
I could probably find thenumber, but maybe approaching a
thousand games, wow, but they'reall like classic, what are
(19:52):
called Euro style games, whichis kind of like a Settlers of
Catan type, feel A little lesslike Monopoly and and scramble
more like a sellers of katantype game.
Yeah, and uh, he's got tons of,uh, he's made so many games
I've played a few of them thatare just downright terrible,
yeah, but but well, you're gonnahave some stinkers.
Aaron Hoisington (20:07):
If you do a thousand, you're not gonna but a
few of them are super, superfun.
Ryan Nelson (20:10):
So, um, I don't know, picking your favorite game
maybe like picking a favoritechild, hard to do, um, but I'd
say uh, either way.
Settlers of of Catan has aspecial place in my heart just
because it's like one of myfirst ones so yeah, that's one.
Aaron Hoisington (20:24):
That's awesome that you're in like a board
game group, that's super cool.
You know you might be gettingup there in age or you just like
know yourself like when you'rein something like that that you
like to do so definitely.
Ryan Nelson (20:36):
yeah, maybe not the quote unquote coolest thing,
but darn it.
I have fun there every singletime, every single time I go, so
I love it.
Aaron Hoisington (20:43):
Yeah, it's really funny to think about,
cause I I have a similarexperience with settlers of
Catan.
Like, um, I, when I was Istudied abroad in Costa Rica
when I was in college and I metthis guy named Chris Linton
shout out, chris always, alwaystunes in from Parker, colorado,
(21:06):
love that, klaus Tuber, yeah andhe introduced me to this game
and he was like, oh yeah, Iplayed this before.
I was like, oh, let's check itout.
And I was just like addicted,it's just an awesome game.
So if you guys haven't playedSettlers of Catan, play it.
Play it with somebody who knowswhat they're doing.
I would recommend that thefirst time.
But like it's still like I,probably I play that game.
I don't play it every day, butlike I play it absolutely
probably weekly.
I would say like every on theweekend, like we'll bust out the
(21:29):
katan board and like, play, youshould get a katan tournament.
Oh yeah, oh it's, it's justphenomenal.
So that one for sure.
But I would say my og game thatI really enjoyed playing as a
as a board game game was clue.
Yeah, it's a classic, it's agreat one, it's a classic.
There's a lot more like.
There's like bluffing and skilllike involved with clue that
you don't really think about,like that you can like there's
(21:50):
different ways to manipulate it.
That I've learned over the yearsthat like, people don't know if
they're like novice clue play,so, it's just, it's a fun game
and like you're like and theyhave so many variations these
days of like new age Clue andlike there are different themes
of it to where, like, all theweapons are, you know, whatever
they might.
So it's cool that the housethat they're in is like oh,
(22:11):
that's in like the, you know, airoom or whatever Sure yeah.
Ryan Nelson (22:14):
Instead of the computer room.
Aaron Hoisington (22:15):
Yeah, it's a fun game for sure.
I think that was like my one.
That holds a really specialplace in my heart too is Clue.
Ryan Nelson (22:22):
That was always a fun one growing up.
It's a classic.
I love it.
I got a kind of new take on agame.
That's like kind of a new takeon that that is a lot more
involved that you might like.
So we'll have to have you guysover and play a little try that
on for us.
Love that.
Play a little try that out forus Love that.
Aaron Hoisington (22:37):
Love that.
Awesome Well, appreciate it,ryan, as always.
Thanks everyone for tuning in.
Hope you guys learned somethingtoday and I'll turn it over to
you, ryan, to lead us out here.
Ryan Nelson (22:47):
As always, stay the course.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Thank you for joining us for the Fiscal Physical
Podcast Until next time.
Happy listening and, as always,stay the course.
If you have a question or topicsuggestions, please email us at
podcast at alchemywealthcom.
If you enjoyed today'sdiscussion, subscribe to the
(23:09):
podcast to ensure you never missan episode, and consider
leaving us a rating and reviewon your favorite platform.
This helps other listeners likeyou find the show.
For more resources, you canvisit Alchemy Wealth
Management's website atwwwalchemywealthcom or find your
fiscal physical the book onAmazon.
We'd be remiss if we didn'tmention that personal finance is
(23:30):
just that personal.
Please don't take anything wesay as advice.
The preceding content is forinformational and entertainment
purposes only.
It's not an offer or asolicitation, nor should it be
construed or relied upon for tax, legal or investment advice.
It doesn't consider yourpersonal financial situation or
objectives and may not besuitable for you.
Welcome to the Fiscal Physical Podcast.
Join us each week as we sitdown with the founder of Alchemy
Wealth Management and author ofyour Fiscal Physical, Ryan
Nelson.
Tune in to gain valuableinsights and practical tips as
we simplify complex financialconcepts into digestible lessons
(00:22):
.
From budgeting to retirementplanning, this podcast is your
go-to resource for masteringfinancial literacy.
Aaron Hoisington (00:33):
Welcome everybody to this week's episode
of the Fiscal Physical Podcast.
My name's Aaron.
I am joined again and always byMr Ryan Nelson, the founder of
Alchemy Wealth.
Management and one of my goodbuddies.
Ryan Nelson (00:46):
Ryan, how are you today?
I am doing well.
How are you doing today?
Aaron Hoisington (00:48):
Doing all right, man, I'm doing all right,
ready to dive into anotherepisode and just continue to
learn, continue to spend timewith one of my good friends and
hopefully share some of ourknowledge or lack of knowledge
with our listeners out there.
So let's go ahead and dive intoit.
If you're ready to go, let's doit.
Perfect, so this is going to bea fun topic.
(01:10):
I was really excited to writethis one.
It's all about pet ownershipand the financial costs that
come with it.
So I know, ryan and you couldshare it with the listeners, but
you are a pet owner, if I'm notmistaken.
I am uh, it's, uh, nova is isher name and uh, we want to give
a little backstory about what,uh, what she is oh, she's a dog,
yeah, yeah, okay, perfect yeahoh sweet, yeah.
(01:33):
What, how old?
What are we working?
Ryan Nelson (01:34):
with here.
Uh, she is, I think, about sixuh lab border collie around six.
Aaron Hoisington (01:39):
Nice, so you've had, and you got her when
she was pretty young too.
Yeah, yeah, so you've had herfor six that.
So you've had her for six.
That's crazy.
You've had her for six years.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
That's wild to think about.
Aaron Hoisington (01:48):
Yeah, it is.
That just blew my mind therefor a minute, but awesome.
Well, I'm also a proud petowner.
I got a cat named Reggie.
He's about 11 years old.
He's kind of a mean cat ifwe're being honest, but he's our
cat and so um love the guy todeath Him and I spend quite a
bit of time together.
It's a.
Ryan Nelson (02:05):
Turkish van Sure.
Aaron Hoisington (02:07):
Yeah, he sent me that the other day and I was
like I don't know what thatmeans.
I had to look it up but itlooks like him if you just start
the hissing.
But, um, overall I would saythat pet ownership and owning
pets is a monster thing here inthe United States, a huge part
of our culture all around theworld really.
But we really hammer at homehere in the United States.
You see, people go above andbeyond for their pets, which is
(02:29):
great.
I do the same as well.
But I'm curious, ryan, aboutlet's dive into the topic of
what are some of the costs ofpet ownership that people one
might not be knowing, might notbe thinking about, and kind of
how that affects the decision,to how it affects their
financials overall.
So let's go ahead and dive in.
I'll let you take it away.
Ryan Nelson (02:50):
Yeah.
So before we dive into that,what do you think?
How big do you think theyproject the pet industry to be
in, let's say, 2030?
Oh man, 2030.
Aaron Hoisington (03:06):
Five years, five years from now, it's got to
be.
Just massive man.
It's got to be.
I'm going to say $500 million,ooh, that's a good guess $500?
.
Ryan Nelson (03:16):
Yeah, $500 billion.
Oh my gosh.
Aaron Hoisington (03:19):
With a B.
Ryan Nelson (03:20):
Yeah, so they project in 2030.
Aaron Hoisington (03:24):
What.
Ryan Nelson (03:24):
And by they I just mean Google's AI function.
Sure, who knows who it is, butnor do I really care.
But either way, it's just ahuge, huge industry, right, and
it's like one of the fastestgrowing industries, I think.
So, to your point, we spend awhole heck of a lot of money on
pets right.
Yes, and so we had an episode afew weeks back about
homeownership.
I actually kind of think aboutand approach this in a similar
(03:47):
way.
Okay, and so we'll talk aboutsome of the upfront costs, some
of the ongoing costs and stuff.
But yeah, so obviously pets canbring a lot of joy, but many of
us overlook the financialcommitment of that pet.
So anytime you get a pet,obviously there's more than just
a financial commitment, butthere is a financial commitment
to that pet.
Obviously there's more thanjust a financial commitment, but
there is a financial commitmentto that pet.
(04:08):
And so I'll be a littlefacetious here.
But financial planning isn'tjust for us and our goals, but
our pets need it as well, right?
So 100%.
If we're getting an animal.
We should probably do again alittle facetious here, but a
little bit of financial planningand honesty to make sure you
can afford that pet.
So let's talk about some of theinitial costs.
So there's adoption fees.
So if you're going to a shelterso you mentioned Nova earlier I
(04:30):
got Nova from, I think it wasthe Humane Society, and even
from the Humane Society she'snot free.
I think typical costs aresomewhere in the neighborhood of
$50 to $250.
And that's again if you'regetting from a shelter.
If you're buying from a breeder, I was looking at other dogs.
(04:50):
We had Rhodesian Ridgebacksgrowing up.
I was looking at gettingpurebred Ridgebacks, big dog,
yep, big big dog.
But those are $3,000 plus and Iknow there's other dogs that
cost a whole heck of a lot morethan that right.
So if you're getting from abreeder, you could be talking
about multiple thousands ofdollars to initially buy this
dog.
Um, uh, if you're getting froma shelter, um, you know it's
going to be a fraction of that,but there's still some costs
(05:11):
there.
And then you're you know whatall kind of still refer to as
like upfront, um, you're goingto have to spay or neuter that
animal.
I think most shelters they'llcome spayed or neutered.
But if you're getting a dogfrom like a breeder or a cat,
you're going to need to spay orneuter it.
It's going to have to havevaccines.
You should get it microchipped.
You know you're talking anothercouple hundred bucks to a
(05:32):
thousand bucks there and thenyou're going to need some kind
of starter supplies.
Right, it's almost like thehouse when you have to buy the
couch and stuff, right, yeah,exactly.
So you're going to need a dogbed, you're going to need maybe
a crate, you're going to needleash, you're going to need food
and water, bowls, toys, litterbox, right.
There's just kind of all theselike one-off expenses you need
initially for the dog or cat,right, and so there's another
(05:54):
couple hundred bucks.
So you might spend a couplehundred bucks on the adoption
fees, a couple hundred bucks onthe first year's medical costs
and a couple hundred bucks onsort of starter supplies.
So it's reasonable to think youmight be out a thousand plus,
certainly if you're buying froma breeder much more than that
sort of just right off the bat,yep, right.
Then you obviously have ongoingannual expenses.
(06:14):
These are a little harder, butI mean, I got some numbers here.
So you're going to have food forthe animal, right.
That could be anywhere between250 to $700 a year for food.
It obviously greatly depends onon what you're, what you're
feeding them, right.
I think, um, I think Nova'sfood costs like 40 bucks a month
, approximately 40 bucks a month.
(06:34):
So you're talking 500 bucks ayear there, right?
So kind of right in the middleof these, uh, these ranges, and
then you know, in theory, youshould be taking them to their
vet for some routine visits,kind of like what you know.
We do our routine medicalcheckups with our doctors.
And then there's somepreventative medicines.
Maybe there's heartworm,there's flea like there's tick
(06:57):
medicine.
I don't know if medicines, I'mnot a vet.
But there's like the fleaprevention, tick prevention,
heartworm prevention, right.
Those could cost in thehundreds of dollars a year.
There's depending on the breed.
Some breeds, actually, I think,have to be groomed, otherwise
their hair gets like matted orwhatever, yeah, so if you're
(07:20):
getting one of those breeds,then you're sort of committing
to some grooming, right?
Depending on your sort ofphilosophies, you may choose to
do training classes right,there's a few hundred more
dollars, right, there'scertainly optional.
But you may explore petinsurance.
That's oftentimes somewhere inthe neighborhood of $20 to $70 a
month for this pet insurance.
(07:42):
And then you may also havecosts for if you're traveling,
you might have to board theanimal, or if you're busy, you
might have to pay somebody towalk your dog, right.
So there's these other expensesthat, again, just not
everybody's going to need allthese expenses, but some people
will need some of them, and alot of them are expenses.
That, again, just noteverybody's going to need all
these expenses, but some peoplewill need some of them, and a
lot of them are expenses thatpeople don't originally think
(08:03):
about.
You know, like, doggy daycareis another one.
A lot of people will take theirdogs to doggy daycare, right,
again, none of those arenecessarily required, but, again
, some people do choose topursue them and those are just
costs that add up right.
Aaron Hoisington (08:19):
And I think that a good piece here, too, is
like you think about, likeyou're speaking from personal
opinion, like with a dog, like Ithink about like from I have a
cat and I would say that,relatively speaking, you have
some of the same costs.
This isn't even thinking aboutlike if you have a pet horse or
something like that.
Ryan Nelson (08:36):
Oh yeah, for sure Like something along those lines
A horse is going to beexpensive, or something like
that.
Aaron Hoisington (08:39):
Oh yeah, yeah, for sure, like something along
those lines.
A horse is going to beexpensive, but I think a dog is
a relatively good one to usebecause it's I don't know if
it's the most common, and rightnow I would assume.
Yeah, sure, but like, I think adog is a good middle ground
because, you could also havelike a fish.
Yeah, yeah, true.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, butyou really expensive pet or a
really cheap pet.
But I think a dog is a veryalmost every.
(09:00):
It can really, you know,resonate with the listeners for
something here too.
So, but, yeah, I think theseare, these are their numbers are
adding up yeah, right, yeah,yeah definitely I was kind of
thinking more along the lines ofdogs and cats.
Ryan Nelson (09:10):
obviously there's like birds and fish and all that
stuff.
My gut tells me that cats areprobably cheaper than dogs.
I could be wrong there, but Idon't know.
But then so those are all.
All those expenses I listed maynot necessarily be expected on
the front end, but they're allexpenses you can kind of plan
for.
Then there's going to be somereally unexpected costs like
(09:33):
emergency vet visits.
Your dog or cat gets hurt ordoes something that you just
literally couldn't plan for andyou have that emergency vet
visit.
Really hard to put a cost onthat right, but typically if
you're taking them to anemergency vet you're not getting
out of there for less than 500bucks right, just walking in
there.
Then there's certain surgeriesthat they might have to have,
(09:53):
right, there's chronic illnessesand medicine.
There's a lot of animals who'vebeen on medicine you know
medications for years, right,and that adds up and so, similar
to the house, it's probably nota bad idea to have like a pet
emergency fund, right, youshould be sort of budgeting If
you have this added sort ofresponsibility.
(10:15):
You should know, like okay,this is another thing that I
have these added potentialexpenses for.
Now, maybe a pet emergency fundis only like a thousand bucks
or 2000 bucks, right, I'm notsaying it has to be 30 or 40,000
, right, but maybe you have athousand bucks set aside, okay,
this can cover any emergency formy dog or cat, right, yeah, and
so I always think, as you'resort of budgeting this, just
(10:37):
including your pets in yourmonthly and annual budget is
wise, right, it's just anexpense that you have.
So your dog's food or your cat'sfood, your dog's annual visit,
it's just another expense thatyou have and I would think of it
, just budgeting it into yournormal budget.
I wouldn't get it do anythingtoo complicated there, but using
things like a sort of a petemergency fund, maybe it's a
(10:58):
thousand bucks, it doesn't haveto be anything too crazy.
If you're into pet insurance,if that's your thing, definitely
do your due diligence incomparing the different
providers.
Also, consider self-insuringright.
So again, if your emergencyfund let's say your personal,
just normal emergency fund is at50 grand, that might be able to
(11:18):
cover every expense for bothyourself and your pet.
And you may say I don't reallyneed a dog insurance.
I got enough in my emergencysavings total, so just consider
self-insuring versus gettingthat pet insurance.
And then obviously, there'ssome planning considerations
around time and travel.
How I think of this circlingback into financial planning is
(11:40):
you know this I feel like peopledon't always think about this,
but everybody thinks about theirkids, right?
Oftentimes, one of the mostcommon things I say is I'm going
to retire after my kids moveout of the house, Right, Right,
Sure.
And so it's very natural tolike think right, That'd be
great by the way you know, yeah,but a lot of times people don't
always think about theiranimals.
and then they say I have thisretirement goal to get an RV and
(12:05):
see all 50 states when I retire.
Right, it's like, okay, but youhave a dog.
I don't see how those you can'tbe taking the dog in the RV, no,
so you're going to board yourdog for a year.
So while dogs are not nearly asbig of a commitment as, say, a
child, it is a commitment andthen I do think it needs to like
time commitment of it needs tobe calculated into your
(12:26):
retirement plan as well.
Right, um and uh, yeah.
So just something to thinkabout there which is interesting
and I find most people overlookAbsolutely.
Aaron Hoisington (12:34):
Yeah, just to think about that of like oh,
yeah, we're going to take this.
Even just you think about, oh,we're going to take this.
Even just you think about, oh,we're going to take this
week-long trip to wherever.
Immediately, my first thoughtin my mind is like okay, cool,
what are we going to do with our?
Speaker 1 (12:46):
cat or our dog.
Aaron Hoisington (12:48):
What's going to go, what's happening with
that, who's going to watch them?
And hopefully you'll havesomething in place for some
things like that.
But it is funny, man, to thinkabout the, to think about the.
You know, people mention andI've had dogs growing up, had
cats growing up, had all sortsof animals, but right now just
have the cat, thankfully.
But people talk about like, oh,like I have a dog, like it's
(13:12):
the same as like a kid orsomething like that, and I
always say like no, it's not,but there are a lot of
similarities with it.
Like that I would say that youhave to think about that.
If you're a pet owner, that'sprobably your first thought,
that you have to think aboutthat.
If you're a pet owner, that'sprobably your first thought for
these certain things, and that'show it's like.
Ryan Nelson (13:22):
I mean, I know I have a college savings account
for my dog.
Yeah, no, naturally.
Yeah, she's very smart.
Aaron Hoisington (13:28):
We're hoping for Harvard, but I think that
there's certain things thatdefinitely play into your
financial planning with it ofwhere you have to take into
consideration your animal and,like you mentioned, the
emergency funder.
I think people are like oh,it'll never, you don't think it
happens.
Or like, for myself, you don'treally know how attached you get
(13:48):
to these animals too.
You're like a couple of yearsback our cat Reggie got sick and
I always said I was like, oh,if it's too expensive, we're
just going to put him down atthat point because we don't have
the money to pay for it.
Darn it if we didn't spend waytoo much money on this cat to
make sure he was okay.
Immediately Didn't even thinkabout it, it was cost came
(14:10):
second.
So, you can't underestimate thevalue of joy that animals can
bring to you, but also thefinancial cost that goes with
them can bring to you, but alsolike, the financial costs that
goes with them.
And a lot of times you justhave to be aware that, cool,
where are we okay with like, orshould we get a dog?
Do we have the capacity totrain it?
Like?
What do we want to do with this?
Overall, and taking into thoselogical things of just the
(14:32):
financial once again, not superfun to do but it's necessary in
the long run if you're trying toplan well.
Ryan Nelson (14:41):
And, like you said, I don't think like a dog is
anywhere on the same level of acommitment as like a child.
But there are some parallels,right, absolutely.
And like.
Another one is like you get adog, that dog depending on the
breed you get I could have a 15,16, 17 year.
You know life a kid is usuallyliving in your house until
they're like 18.
(15:01):
Like you know, you may belooking at a similar timeframe.
Not, we're not talking aboutfinancial expense, but timeframe
.
Right, and again to your point,you're these, these, these
animals do require a timecommitment from you.
So, as you're doing financialplanning and thinking and trying
to solve about what you wantmaybe it's travel, maybe it's
whatever um, you still need toplan.
(15:22):
If you're getting a dog today,this is still impacting you five
years from now, 10 years fromnow, potentially 15 years from
now, right, so something whereyou should just be planning
accordingly, both on thefinancial side, but also just on
the goals-based.
Again, all of our financialplanning here at Alchemy is
always goals-based planning.
Aaron Hoisington (15:51):
So I would kind of think about that in the
same terms as you're getting ananimal, how does this space
affect your like goals basedplanning?
Right, and it's both on thefinancial side and the time side
.
But obviously, like you said,they, they, you know it can be
emotional and it's hard tosometimes.
You know you this thing theother day it was like the first
week of owning a cat or whatever, and your first day their guy's
like all right, whatever, thiscat's fine, like he's just
hanging, yeah, yeah, like we.
Day two, you're like I stilldon't know what this guy's doing
.
Like day three, I'll die for you, yeah you're just like and I
(16:12):
feel like it just goes into petownership of, like you know, we,
we value our pets here like anduh, better or worse, that's
kind of what we are and they'rea part of our lives, and so you
should definitely planfinancially for it without a
doubt.
Ryan Nelson (16:26):
Yeah, so I'll maybe close this out here by saying
like again, like I know I'mbeing facetious and it's kind of
a joke, but also, at the sametime, there's like a half truth
to this, like you know.
Yes, you should have like afinancial plan for your animal
right.
Like you should plan financially, you should understand what the
implications of getting thatanimal are, and there are
financial considerations.
So yeah, just you know thatshould be a piece of your plan.
(16:48):
Is it the biggest piece of yourplan?
No, of course not, absolutelynot.
But it is an implication and itis a consideration.
It is a piece of that plan, sodon't forget to consider it, yep
.
Aaron Hoisington (16:59):
Absolutely Awesome.
I love it, ryan.
Well, thank you so much.
Thanks everyone for listening.
Hang tight, we'll be right backwith some personal fun.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Hang tight and now to put the personal in personal
finance.
Aaron Hoisington (17:13):
Welcome back everybody to this side of the
Fiscal Physical Podcast.
I feel like I say this everyweek, but I'm always very
excited to ask you this question, ryan, as I I think it really
uh is applicable to you overall.
So, um, I uh, um wanted to uhask you what is your favorite
board game?
Uh, if you guys don't know ryanon a personal level, he's a
(17:34):
board, he's a game enthusiast,loves games of all shapes and
sizes.
But I specifically know thatyou really enjoy board games.
Ryan Nelson (17:43):
Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah, I like board games a
lot.
Did you know I'm going to aweekly board game?
No, I didn't know.
Oh yeah.
So I go to a board game likegroup every single week and I
play like all these new boardgames and stuff Really, oh yeah.
How'd you find that like, is itjust, uh, just kind of a long
story?
But just stumbled upon it, metsome people, um, and heard about
it.
I was like heck, yeah, I likeboard games, I'll come and then.
(18:04):
Yeah, um, been going prettymuch ever since awesome.
Aaron Hoisington (18:06):
That's phenomenal.
Ryan Nelson (18:07):
Yeah, great um so, um, it's kind of funny.
So.
So, like, I love board games,but, like these, these group of
people play a lot more boardgames than I ever had, right, so
they've played way more and sothey've exposed me to way more
games.
Um and uh, so, um, real quick,I just had a curiosity.
Could you guess who my favoriteboard game designer is?
Uh no I don't think I couldyeah okay, I would just think
(18:29):
hasbro, yeah, uh
Aaron Hoisington (18:32):
I I know a lot of uh so, anyways, maybe I
don't play enough board.
Ryan Nelson (18:37):
No, you definitely don't um, but anyway, so, um, uh
, settlers of I always refer toit as settlers of katan uh,
everybody else refers to it assettlers of katan.
Aaron Hoisington (18:47):
Uh, yeah, I refuse to call it that.
Ryan Nelson (18:48):
Yes, katan, yeah, uh, incite some riots, yeah yeah
, um, but uh, that was like mygateway game.
Uh, I remember playing a ton ofthat in like college and stuff
we'd have like everybody, likehanging out in the apartment
playing Settlers and so that waskind of my like gateway game
and that's like most people whoplay a lot of board games.
That's like one of everybody'sgateway games.
Oh really yeah, and so it'skind of funny.
(19:09):
So, like a lot of people whoplay board games a lot don't
want to play that becauseeverybody always wants to play
it.
Yeah, and so kind of funny.
But so Settlers of Catan orCatan, if you want to be proper,
always will have sort of aspecial place in my heart,
definitely.
I have the app on my phone.
I play it like almost every day, probably.
Nice, yeah, and Klaus Tuber isthe designer of that game.
(19:31):
Okay, and so you may have heardjokes around about Klaus Tuber,
but he's a cool guy.
But, as I've gotten to exposeto more games, there's a board
designer called Reiner Kniziaand he's designed like I think
literally it sounds likehundreds and hundreds of games.
I could probably find thenumber, but maybe approaching a
thousand games, wow, but they'reall like classic, what are
(19:52):
called Euro style games, whichis kind of like a Settlers of
Catan type, feel A little lesslike Monopoly and and scramble
more like a sellers of katantype game.
Yeah, and uh, he's got tons of,uh, he's made so many games
I've played a few of them thatare just downright terrible,
yeah, but but well, you're gonnahave some stinkers.
Aaron Hoisington (20:07):
If you do a thousand, you're not gonna but a
few of them are super, superfun.
Ryan Nelson (20:10):
So, um, I don't know, picking your favorite game
maybe like picking a favoritechild, hard to do, um, but I'd
say uh, either way.
Settlers of of Catan has aspecial place in my heart just
because it's like one of myfirst ones so yeah, that's one.
Aaron Hoisington (20:24):
That's awesome that you're in like a board
game group, that's super cool.
You know you might be gettingup there in age or you just like
know yourself like when you'rein something like that that you
like to do so definitely.
Ryan Nelson (20:36):
yeah, maybe not the quote unquote coolest thing,
but darn it.
I have fun there every singletime, every single time I go, so
I love it.
Aaron Hoisington (20:43):
Yeah, it's really funny to think about,
cause I I have a similarexperience with settlers of
Catan.
Like, um, I, when I was Istudied abroad in Costa Rica
when I was in college and I metthis guy named Chris Linton
shout out, chris always, alwaystunes in from Parker, colorado,
(21:06):
love that, klaus Tuber, yeah andhe introduced me to this game
and he was like, oh yeah, Iplayed this before.
I was like, oh, let's check itout.
And I was just like addicted,it's just an awesome game.
So if you guys haven't playedSettlers of Catan, play it.
Play it with somebody who knowswhat they're doing.
I would recommend that thefirst time.
But like it's still like I,probably I play that game.
I don't play it every day, butlike I play it absolutely
probably weekly.
I would say like every on theweekend, like we'll bust out the
(21:29):
katan board and like, play, youshould get a katan tournament.
Oh yeah, oh it's, it's justphenomenal.
So that one for sure.
But I would say my og game thatI really enjoyed playing as a
as a board game game was clue.
Yeah, it's a classic, it's agreat one, it's a classic.
There's a lot more like.
There's like bluffing and skilllike involved with clue that
you don't really think about,like that you can like there's
(21:50):
different ways to manipulate it.
That I've learned over the yearsthat like, people don't know if
they're like novice clue play,so, it's just, it's a fun game
and like you're like and theyhave so many variations these
days of like new age Clue andlike there are different themes
of it to where, like, all theweapons are, you know, whatever
they might.
So it's cool that the housethat they're in is like oh,
(22:11):
that's in like the, you know, airoom or whatever Sure yeah.
Ryan Nelson (22:14):
Instead of the computer room.
Aaron Hoisington (22:15):
Yeah, it's a fun game for sure.
I think that was like my one.
That holds a really specialplace in my heart too is Clue.
Ryan Nelson (22:22):
That was always a fun one growing up.
It's a classic.
I love it.
I got a kind of new take on agame.
That's like kind of a new takeon that that is a lot more
involved that you might like.
So we'll have to have you guysover and play a little try that
on for us.
Love that.
Play a little try that out forus Love that.
Aaron Hoisington (22:37):
Love that.
Awesome Well, appreciate it,ryan, as always.
Thanks everyone for tuning in.
Hope you guys learned somethingtoday and I'll turn it over to
you, ryan, to lead us out here.
Ryan Nelson (22:47):
As always, stay the course.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Thank you for joining us for the Fiscal Physical
Podcast Until next time.
Happy listening and, as always,stay the course.
If you have a question or topicsuggestions, please email us at
podcast at alchemywealthcom.
If you enjoyed today'sdiscussion, subscribe to the
(23:09):
podcast to ensure you never missan episode, and consider
leaving us a rating and reviewon your favorite platform.
This helps other listeners likeyou find the show.
For more resources, you canvisit Alchemy Wealth
Management's website atwwwalchemywealthcom or find your
fiscal physical the book onAmazon.
We'd be remiss if we didn'tmention that personal finance is
(23:30):
just that personal.
Please don't take anything wesay as advice.
The preceding content is forinformational and entertainment
purposes only.
It's not an offer or asolicitation, nor should it be
construed or relied upon for tax, legal or investment advice.
It doesn't consider yourpersonal financial situation or
objectives and may not besuitable for you.
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