December 22, 2025 • 42 mins
What if elite full-arch training and life-changing care could happen in the same week? We sit down with Dr. Simon O. to unpack Orca’s model: a global education-and-service engine that treats extreme edentulism while upskilling clinicians from fundamentals to remote anchorage. From Guatemala to Cairo, the mission is bold and practical—end unnecessary toothlessness by pairing rigorous training with real cases that would otherwise never be done.
We get specific about how a full-scope, cross-trained practice gives patients better options than a one-size-fits-all FP3 mindset. Simon breaks down Orca’s tiers—entry to implants, prosthetic-first digital workflows, conventional on-X, and advanced approaches like pterygoids, transnasals, and quad zygos—plus when FP1 and even selective subperiosteals make sense. Soft tissue takes center stage this year, along with a push to avoid zygos when smart planning, M configurations, and transsinus strategies can leverage slender bone more safely.
Technology is rewriting the playbook. We explore AI-driven design that speeds CBCT-to-provisional workflows, reduces manual lab labor, and sets up safer, more predictable surgeries. The conversation turns to robotics, regulation, and the new shape of “skill” as judgment and patient selection rise while repetitive tasks automate. Then we introduce ArchEd: an asynchronous didactic platform with targeted hands-on and cadaver labs, realistic FDM-printed models from real CTs, structured mentorship, and a vault of point-of-view surgical videos so you can pause, rewind, and walk into complex cases prepared.
If you care about full-arch implant dentistry, this is a roadmap to better outcomes: smarter prosthetics, stronger soft tissue, refined anchorage strategies, and an open culture that raises the standard of care worldwide. Join us as we dig into the Orca Symposium’s speaker lineup, expansion plans across regions, and a shared goal that’s bigger than any single clinic—ending avoidable edentulism by teaching excellence at scale.
If this resonates, follow the show, share it with a colleague, and leave a review. Your support helps more clinicians find the tools and training they need to deliver world-class full-arch care.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (01:19):
My name is Dr.
Tyler Tolbert.
And I'm Dr.
Soren Poppy.
And you're listening to theFixed Podcast, your source for
all things implant dentistry.
Hello, and welcome back toanother episode of the Fixed
Podcast.
I have yet another esteemedguest.
I don't know how I keep liningthem up, but I've got another
really amazing guest here, Dr.
Simon O.
You have to know him by now.
If you don't, you've probablyjust stumbled at the world of
(01:41):
fixed full arch dentistry.
I've interviewed Dr.
Simon before on the show.
We've talked a lot about what hedoes in his own private practice
with his group of practices aswell.
We can talk about that.
But really, what I think hascaused a whole lot of buzz in
our industry is his efforts withOrca.
So that's a really amazingfoundation where they're going
down to Central America.
And the acronym of course isOperation Reidentiolate Central
(02:04):
America.
And they're doing some of thehighest level full Arch
education down there, everywherefrom pretty much, I wouldn't say
zero to one, but pretty muchwading into full arch all the
way up to advanced remoteanchorage.
And then after the courseconcludes, they then bring in a
whole bunch of specialistsurgeons and do really the most
amazing oral surgery that'shappening pretty much anywhere.
And Simon has had a lot to dowith the foundation of that and
(02:26):
has had so much to do with thegrowing and proliferation of it.
So it's a real honor to have himon the show.
And I just want to welcome you,welcome you back.
Yeah, thanks a lot, man.
It's always good to be here.
Yeah, for sure.
For those of my audience thatdon't know or haven't listened
to former episodes, could yougive us like a brief synopsis of
who you are, where you'repracticing, the things you're
doing, and lead us into whatmade Orca, what it is now, how
(02:47):
much it's grown.
SPEAKER_01 (02:48):
Yeah, for sure.
So I reside outside ofPhiladelphia in the suburbs.
I have a group practice.
Right now we're about seven deepin the Mid-Atlantic region.
Cool.
Um, and yeah, we focus on fullarch, but it's not all full
arch.
The reason why we set up the waywe did it, it's a full scope
cross type practice is the way Idescribe it with a strong
(03:09):
backbone in surgery.
We do a ton of arches.
I think if you ever talk toanybody at the places that only
offer one or two services, likeyou always hear there's a couple
cases I probably should havedone something else to refer to
them out or something like that.
So a 25-year-old girl who wantsa nice set of teeth and just has
some staining, we can offer themsomething different.
SPEAKER_00 (03:28):
Probably not the ideal FP3 case.
SPEAKER_01 (03:30):
Yeah, exactly.
But yeah, that's the practiceside, it's pretty
straightforward and we all arepractice thing.
But with with Orca, that that'sa real passion project.
The fun fact is I was the firstperson in Central American
history to place a zygomaticimplant.
Um no way.
Yeah, that's a move.
Which is it it's definitelycool, but like sad at the same
(03:50):
time because zygas were first onthe 80s and they never had
access to that kind of treat.
I I met with UFM, thisuniversity, top university uh
dental school in Guatemala,through Dr.
Eldad Drury.
I sent him down for a basicimplant course, met Rodrigo
Carriaga, and both of them arenow my partners in this project.
(04:11):
Um yeah, once we saw the likethe emotions come out of these
patients who were like 40 yearswith no solutions, we were like,
okay, we got to keep doing this,and we figured we could do it
ourselves, which we can only goso fast.
But if we were to deploy aneducational side, it would not
(04:31):
only take care of thefinancials, but also give us the
opportunity to scale up.
And so each time you go downthere, I think the metric is
like an average of 1200 years ofaddentalism that we end uh the
average person's 25 years orsomething like that.
SPEAKER_00 (04:46):
I remember when you were first telling me about what
kind of got this initiativegoing, is you said that in this
particular area in Guatemala,it's very customary that when
someone turned 15 or 16 yearsold, they go ahead and identify
them pretty much as soon as theyhad cavities, just because it
saved them the inconvenience oflosing them one by one.
So some of these people they'vebeen their entire adult lives
have they been addentalists, andthat's why you're having these
(05:07):
extremely atrophic cases.
SPEAKER_01 (05:08):
Dude, yeah, it's crazy.
I just like that being a gift.
Like they don't have the basicthe basic care to do that.
And so, yeah, at some point, themission of what we're doing is
not only to end this and like II look at it as a problem of
just that.
It's like they're gettingidentified way too early.
And so, like, we're trying tofix the current issues of
identialism, but ultimately whatI'd love to do is, and I'm
(05:32):
working on it, is to create apediatric program just to
provide the care.
Because like I I think whatsuccess looks like for us is to
put ourselves out of full archbusiness, like to for them to be
able to actually sustainthemselves and have teeth.
I it's a pretty difficult thingbecause of like the amount of
poverty ripped over there andlike the just complete lack of
(05:55):
access to, especially likeremote areas.
We have people come in from17-hour bus rides just to come
see it.
So I don't know how feasibleit's gonna be, but it's worth a
shot.
SPEAKER_00 (06:05):
Um you could do to burn that candle at both ends,
even with all the people thatare coming through there and
doing the courses, there's justno way you could just get on top
of that problem and get the tailend of it.
There's it's impossible.
SPEAKER_01 (06:14):
Yeah, for sure.
It it's a problem here in theUS.
And uh, I think the amount ofdesperate nest down there is so
much higher.
And so yeah, we're we're we'redoing that, and then they the
surgeons down there were askingme if I had some friends that
could take care of because theywere starting to show me like,
can this get a zygo?
And it was a patient with a hugeresection and like the sinuses
(06:36):
wide open.
I'm like, probably not, but letme give my buddy a call.
That's how that evolved is uhwith Caitlyn Patel, Joe
Camarada, Stevie Spav, ZachBrown, Juan Gonzalez, who you
know, and a handful of others,like they they're just like good
people that have the skills thatthey need.
So yeah, we're doing a lot ofmicrovascular and we're getting
(06:59):
into uh cleflip and palate andthings of that nature.
Yeah, just trying to do the bestwe can.
That's the name of the game.
SPEAKER_00 (07:04):
Wow, that's fantastic.
So, how many courses are youguys doing a year?
And approximately how manytricklines do you have every
time?
SPEAKER_01 (07:12):
Yeah, right now we're doing twice a year.
I'd love to do more, but it'sjust a matter of and it's not
the demand from the like thestudents, like there's unlimited
demand.
They're always sold out.
So it has more to do with thetime that we are able to put
aside for that, and then also Ithink we stress the university.
(07:32):
I think because like webasically take over the whole
school and they're down there,yeah.
But yeah, I'd say each coursethere's probably like 30 or so
students total, and we haveusually about 120, or at least
the last time we had about 120people down there from the US
and a broader outside the UStoo.
SPEAKER_00 (07:50):
And so those that are looking to get involved in
this, I believe you guys havedifferent tiers for experience
levels and what people arehoping to learn there.
Can you tell us a little bitabout that?
SPEAKER_01 (07:59):
Yeah, uh, so we uh we have we just launched the
very basic stuff.
So, like level one is what wecall it, which is like entry to
implants.
And we have that, we juststarted it um and it's getting
busy.
And then after that, what werecommend is doing a prosthetics
course.
You learn digital full arch andhow to restore it.
I always whenever I mentorsomebody that wants to do
(08:21):
surgery, I'm like, okay, howmany have you restored?
And that way you can actually bereally good at this.
Cause like, yeah, withoutunderstanding the complications
that can arise from lack of APspread and all that kind of
stuff, like you it doesn'treally click.
Like we all read it in a book,but what does it actually look
like in real life?
And it gets messy.
Um so then prosthetics courserestoring, or at least being a
(08:43):
part of 50 to 60.
I think last time we did about65 arches and taught by the Mod
Institute and Shere Ruperellio,who are like the best in terms
of uh restoration.
Um and then after that we havelevel two, is what we call it,
which is conventional on four onX.
So like pretty standard,straightforward, good sinuses, a
(09:05):
lot of mandible, that sort ofdeal.
After that is the remoteanchorage.
So is the most extreme atrophy,like quad zygos, transnasals,
pterygoids.
There's a couple that we thatare are if I saw it in the
States, I'd be like, man, ifthis is this is hard.
You know, it's good to dobecause that means that we're
(09:26):
making the biggest impacts forthose kind of cases.
But yeah, we also have FP1 withknife sonata as well.
And we have uh a subperiostealhere and there.
I don't believe in them as firstline treatment, but like there
are certainly cases where itshould be.
And we do that with Sam Durek.
SPEAKER_00 (09:42):
Uh yeah, yeah.
We just had him on the show, Iguess it was about a month ago,
is when we recorded.
Yeah, I learned a lot aboutthat.
He's just he's a walk-intextbook, and it's like an
historical record of everythingsubperiosteal and bringing us
all the way from the beginningpretty much to where we're at
modern day.
Are you guys doing now?
He's a big advocate for doing onthe lower.
Are you guys doing some uppercustomized as well here and
(10:03):
there?
SPEAKER_01 (10:03):
Or I haven't.
I we haven't done any of thosedown there.
I always feel as though like ifyou they can get a PSI or the
ones that go into the zygomas,like you can get a zygo.
Imagine where they have azygote.
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (10:16):
So the angle along which you're able to engage it.
I I guess I do see some casesevery now and then where you
know the zy when you're lookingat it at the axial view and
you're looking at that zygomaticarch and it's not as thick as
it's four millimeters orsomething like that.
You can transverse it at acertain angle, maybe with some
zygos.
I think Dr.
Holtzclaw recently posted onInstagram like an amazing case
(10:37):
that he was reviewing.
That I I'm no zygote expert, butwhen I was looking at it, I was
like, there's no way that's gotto be a PSI case.
Through his wizardry, he figuredout a way to transverse that and
use the hypotenuse of that angleand get a little bit more belly
engagement.
But uh, but yeah, the stuff youguys have been doing on there
has been amazing.
I saw a flapless zygo you guysdid, some of the left pallet
reconstructions, big tumor casesand stuff like that.
Really amazing work that youguys are doing on there.
(10:58):
It's just so much to learn.
And and I believe also you guys,let's say someone just wanted to
learn as much as they could, butwasn't necessarily trying to be
an operator, they can go downthere and they can also shadow,
right?
Like they can see everythingthat's going on down there.
SPEAKER_01 (11:11):
Yeah, yeah.
We have a lot of those peoplejust because I I think like
they're realizing that it it's ahigh impact thing because not
only are they getting thedidactic education and the
there's a lot of value in justlike being around people who
know stuff and are willing toshare.
Um just being around them for aweek, like you observe so much,
and then on top of that, youobserve like in unbelievable
(11:33):
cases.
Yeah, yeah.
Um yeah, it's a pretty popularsegment.
Yeah, I think it's prettyvaluable for people getting into
it.
That dipping their toes in, notready to jump in yet.
SPEAKER_00 (11:42):
Awesome, awesome.
So that kind of brings us up tothe present of where Worka
started and where it's at now.
Can you tell us about what'scoming in the future?
Are we looking at expanding theoperations in other places?
We got some new courses comingup.
You already mentioned the FP1stuff coming.
SPEAKER_01 (11:57):
Yeah, that that's Guatemala.
That honestly, that's like whereI love to be.
I love their place.
I'm working on some stuffprobably not ready to share yet,
but pretty big stuff that Icould share one of the times.
But what we're working on rightnow is an expansion to other
places.
I think we've made a good splashin that in that town, and uh
we're definitely staying for thelong term.
(12:19):
I do want to ramp up and and getmore done.
65 or so is great.
I'd love to see it where we'redoing like 200 a week when we're
down there.
Yeah, it's just a lot ofmanpower, and like whenever I
love scaling stuff, I love itbrings a lot of challenges that
are fun to work through.
And yeah, so it's just a matterof systemizing and getting the
(12:41):
operations in place.
But that's Central America.
We're also working, we just hadour first one in Egypt in Cairo.
Um, yeah, so we have ourEuropean friends.
Guatemala's rather convenient toget to from America, but there's
a lot of European interest to tonot only teach, but also or not
(13:01):
teach, but uh yeah, teach, butalso learn, but at the same time
do a good thing.
We we just had our first onewith our Italian friends,
Emmanuel Coppola and uh GregarioRodai.
They just taught the first onein Cairo, and they're doing
another one next year as well.
We're also looking at SouthAmerica, Asia, and I believe
(13:23):
India was another one on thelist.
And believe it or not, it'sfunny because the in in the
Middle East you have some prettyrich areas like Dubai and the
UAE, but they don't have verygood full arch, I guess you can
call it skill set.
So we're looking to go out theretoo.
I think we have some goodcontacts, not me personally, but
some of our colleagues uh andpartners.
(13:43):
Just trying to end thetoothlessness suffering.
Yeah, that life's gonna suck.
SPEAKER_00 (13:48):
Like really, no, it really does.
No, it really does.
And selfishly, I hear about allthese different places you guys
are gonna do it.
And it's like it'd be cool tohave a charitable excuse to go
to Dubai.
That's I'm just going there tohelp, you know.
That's all.
SPEAKER_02 (14:02):
We focus.
SPEAKER_00 (14:03):
But yeah, that that's fantastic.
Would you say that you guys justhad this one in Cairo?
Is there any particular reasonthat someone in America might
want to go to the Cairo oneinstead of Guatemala?
Maybe there's like a differenttype of education there, it's
different educators, it's atotally different environment.
Maybe there's something theycould gain from that.
Maybe they've already gone toGuatemala and they're looking
for maybe a slightly differentexperience.
(14:24):
Is it any different or are youmostly just recreating it in
different places for the purposeof access?
SPEAKER_01 (14:29):
Yeah, it's for the purpose of access.
Um and the convenience for localmarkets.
Okay.
I think the only times we've hadany kind of requests for Egypt
from the US are if a particulardoctor has like family ties or
like they're from Egypt orsomething, they're motivated to
help their own country.
Um, it's getting to Guatemalafrom here is so convenient.
(14:51):
Oh, yeah, it's Egypt is brutal.
It's brutal.
Yeah, brutal quite.
But yeah, it's intended for theEuropean docs because yeah, it's
it's tough to get to Guatemalafrom Europe.
SPEAKER_00 (15:02):
Sure, sure.
And then I know we got I'mparticularly excited myself.
I just signed up for the OrcaSymposium, so that's coming out
mid-January.
I've been telling everybodyabout it.
I want it to be just a bigparty.
I want everyone, I want all thefull arch people out there.
I've been sharing the codeswidely.
But yeah, can we talk a littlebit about that?
The things that excite you themost about it, what's changed
since the first annualsymposium?
SPEAKER_01 (15:21):
Yeah, definitely excited.
So this year is at the FourSeasons Hotel.
We basically have the entirehotel, so it's just gonna be
like full arch docks in theentirety of the building.
We have we have a great lineup,very excited about.
So we're doing it a little bitdifferently this year.
I think differently, but thesame.
Last year we did a lot ofextreme reconstruction, which I
(15:43):
guess we're doing again, butwith a different perspective.
Okay.
And a lot of it was zygofocused.
This year we're trying to have alittle bit of a different lens
on it.
So same, it's similar in that wehave a good combination of
history, good techniques, andfuture.
So last year we had Dr.
Oli Jensen, who's the pioneervolant for in the US, like the
(16:06):
pioneer.
This year we have CarlosAparicio who is pioneering the
modern day zygo.
Um and then Mike Picos doingsubs, Sam Jurick doing subs.
But we're also getting into likesoft tissue.
I think that's like theoverlooked stepchild of Falarch.
Is you pretty much live in nighby it, but we just don't get we
don't get psyched about it.
(16:26):
Yeah, or yeah, they're cooler,you get to like really jam
things in, and yeah, that's fun.
Yeah, soft tissue.
Not as cool, but I thinkespecially with all the cases
being done, I think people arestarting to realize the
importance of it.
Um, yeah, you bet.
Yeah, so we've got that.
I also wanted to provide somereally good insights on how to
(16:47):
avoid the zygomatics.
So that's like kind of a bigtheme this year is sinus M
configuration transpalatalapproach from Rodriguez.
I think that's gonna be valuablein for the people looking for
knowledge.
We also have a segment on AI inthe future, how that actually
looks like the next couple ofyears.
(17:08):
It's not five, ten years, it'slike now.
SPEAKER_00 (17:11):
No, it's like six months, maybe.
SPEAKER_01 (17:12):
Yeah, exactly.
So, like we we've got we've gotSteve Flow of Voyager who has
like an awesome AI generateddesign function.
SPEAKER_00 (17:20):
Oh, cool.
SPEAKER_01 (17:20):
Yeah, so like you just input the data, click a
button, and then about threeminutes later you have a design
full extra amazing.
SPEAKER_00 (17:27):
Yeah, yeah.
I think uh I think the last timewe had you on, I asked you about
what you were most excitedabout.
And I think it was AI.
And the what we were talkingabout at the time was you upload
a C B C T and the AI is gonnasegment it and it's gonna figure
out what's gonna be the bestconfiguration for implants,
right?
Like how are we gonna distributethis?
Let's just find the maximumareas of bone and get really
good anchors there.
(17:48):
I and I think now we'rerealizing that's just like
that's small potatoes.
Like this is the start, likewe're getting to the point now
where someone's gonna come inthe door, they're gonna get C B
C T some photos and stuff.
You pump that in.
Not only did you did it tell youwhere you're gonna put your
implants, but it gave you thedesign.
It prepped you for your surgery,you're gonna do your surgery,
it's gonna spit out yoursurgical temp in no time at all.
Yeah.
And it's gonna be it's gonnaincorporate some stuff from spin
(18:09):
bone, it's gonna have FEAanalysis and all that.
It's all gonna happen in theblink of an eye.
And this stuff is just it'sgetting away from us so quickly.
It's fascinating to talk about.
And I think the for the peoplethat stand to gain the most are
the ones that are just listeningand just seeing that curve as
it's coming around.
And yeah, that that's awesome.
I love you guys are talkingabout that because that is
really it's transforming everyindustry.
But the things I think a lot ofus hold dear and the things that
(18:29):
our industry is segmented with,right?
Like design and and implantplanning, all these things, like
these things are going to bevery immaterial.
We're not gonna rely on othercompanies to do it for us.
It's going to be there.
It's an amazing time.
Amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (18:42):
Yeah, yeah.
So I've been doing, I've beenlearning the process side of it
on the digital flow lately.
And I'm blown away with how muchof it is just mindless labor.
Like a lot of it.
It's uploading files, it'sclicking the supports on the
teeth, which is like the mostcome on.
Yeah, yeah.
And then and then the designitself is like rotating the
(19:04):
image and then filling in thisspot and creating the and
sculpting the gingable margin.
Yeah, like all that is it'slabor.
And it's yeah, honestly,something that could and really
ought to be at something thatprobably in the next couple
years to be fully automated.
I'm excited for that.
After that, I'm excitedcautiously about robotics
(19:27):
stepping in because I'm excitedbecause my body hurts for one.
I get that, yeah.
But at the same time, like howmuch of that is going to ruin
our industry and really umreally put docs out of work.
So yeah, it's a scary yetthrilling sort of thing to think
(19:48):
about.
I think the thing that's in theway, which is probably gonna be
our friend, is FDA, you know,because as much as I I'd like to
think that they are they are allfor what's best and with good
outcomes and all that kind ofstuff, there's money involved.
And so the associations of allthese different uh groups are
gonna lobby and make sure andtry to keep autonomous robotics
(20:10):
out.
We'll see what happens, but justtrying to live for the day.
SPEAKER_00 (20:14):
Yeah, it's what we see is this kind of diminishing
importance of actual skill, likeany personal skill that you've
actually developed, things thatwe painstakingly developed.
I when you mentioned design, I Iwas putting together all my CE
for my Du Bois fellowship, and Icame across my uh I gone to MOD,
right, and Wally Renee, and likethey've got an amazing operation
down there.
And I gone there, I think it wasNovember of 2023, and I went
(20:38):
there for their digitalremovables course because I was
trying to learn about printeddentures and how I could
incorporate that and things likethat.
And we walked through the wholeExocad design process of
immediate dentures, partials,did a little bit of hybrid
stuff, but it wasn't really forthat.
They have a separate module forthat.
And just what you're saying, I'mgoing through it, and this is no
shade to his course at all.
It's a he does fantasticeducation.
But I'm going through it and I'mlike, I'm clicking stuff and I'm
(21:00):
contouring geniva and stuff.
And in retrospect, I'm like,man, I know that people can be
so talented with that and soquick and so artistic, but in
such a short amount of time,that will be completely
obsolete.
Yeah.
And that scales to even thingsthat we do surgically, that we
may feel like magicians, like weget it out.
The operator, and we're like,wow, just did that.
(21:20):
That took this has been 10 yearsin the making.
I've been going through dentalschool and courses and
residencies and readingtextbooks and stuff.
And it's, you know what, man?
Honestly, it's only a matter oftime before that stuff really
doesn't matter.
And there's a whole newgeneration of people that are
going to come about.
They're going to see humanthings as inferior.
Like that's going to happen atsome point.
Hopefully we can all havefruitful careers before that
happens.
Because at the end of the day,what do we really have at stake?
(21:43):
What are we really going to beresponsible for?
And it may just come down tomaking a decision of whether or
not it's right for a person andthen everything else is
automated.
Scary time, exciting in a way.
Maybe it's good.
But yeah, I know I'm getting alittle off the rails, but it's
easy to do that when you reallylean into how far things have
come with AI.
SPEAKER_01 (21:58):
No, for sure.
Look, it's going to be the kindof thing where like our kids um
are going to look back and belike, they did that by hand?
Are you serious?
It's like when we see Dennis notusing gloves.
SPEAKER_00 (22:09):
That's the same thing.
They're like, oh, they use theirhands.
That's insane.
But for now, we got a job.
Yeah.
The time bang.
Yeah.
The time bang.
Yeah.
Awesome.
Any other ones that you'reexcited about for the symposium
already covered some really goodones?
SPEAKER_01 (22:22):
Oh, dude.
And there's like each one thatwe picked was like, we're
excited about that.
I honestly there's I think uh15, 20 speakers or something
like that.
Yeah, I'm I'm looking at theitinerary now.
Yeah, one other that comes tomind is Fayette William.
William John a day.
Yeah, John A Day.
I think that's gonna be reallyexciting for the oral surgeons
(22:43):
that are doing micro just to geta sense of like how to balance.
It's like you're I guess you'replacing the implants with the
guide on the fibula, which makessense, but then the process on
the fibula, it's like, how doyou do that?
Or what are you talking about?
So like yeah, and I think Ithink it's gonna spark a lot of
curiosity for the most.
(23:05):
And what I'm really interestedto see is Knife Sonata's our
moderator, uh, because like hehe's involved in some of those
cases with the fibulas, and he'seven doing them after the fact.
And so I'm really um I don'teven know what questions to ask
myself.
Like, I don't do those things.
Yeah, like I'm really interestedto see that to see if there's
any sort of concepts we can takefrom that and relate it to what
(23:27):
we do every day with Full Arch.
Just really excited for theconversations, and then after
hours, like just congregatingand being with one another.
I think one of the things thatattracts people to to our group
is is the culture.
Yeah, we're open.
Um, yeah, there there are somepersonalities and egos, but I
think the overall is that likethe knowledge that we have is to
(23:50):
be shared and we do it openlyfor the betterment of their
career and then their patients.
That's my whole thing, is that'swhy I like being in a leadership
position in like DSOs.
I know that's a bad word indentistry, but but yeah, it's if
I can do more good by helpingother people, that's scale.
And that to me is something thatthat I look and put my head down
(24:11):
at night and like that makes mefeel good, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (24:13):
Yeah, there's no way that you could do even an a
fraction of the impact thatyou've done through educating so
many people on what all thecases they're gonna do for the
rest of their careers.
And so many people they go toorca, they talk about how that
was such a pivotal moment forthem.
I have a guy that his name isGeorge Shotakis.
I think I'm probably pushing hisline.
Yeah, yeah.
He he sends me his cases andhe's like, Yeah, man, Orca will
change my life.
(24:34):
I mean, he appreciates the showas well.
He I'm a footnote, but hementions that that kind of
inspired him to go out to thosecourses and stuff like that.
And he sent him his cases andthey're meant really good.
Shout out, George.
He's gonna be doing full archfor the rest of his career, and
he owes that to the people thatthat taught him to do that.
And that's just really cool.
That that's something you don'thave to take credit for it, but
you can certainly take somepride in the impact that you
make.
So definitely applaud you formaking such a huge impact in the
(24:54):
full arch world.
And so ultimately what's soimportant is I think it's very
easy, especially if you're ifyou're in the business of full
arch, to get scarce about it,right?
Like you would get worried aboutcompetitors and other people
learning how to do what you do.
And it's like, look, at the endof the day, people are gonna
learn this if they want to doit.
There's plenty of resources,they're gonna go out and find
it.
What's important is that peopledo it well.
Yeah.
Because in in my community, whenI see cases coming through my
(25:15):
office and they were not donewell, and now I have to talk to
this patient and explain, hey, Iknow you took out a second
mortgage for this, but you'regonna have to take out another
one because this is not this isreally bad.
And you try to do that withoutwalking over someone else, but
it's it's important that thework be done well.
There's always going to bepeople to treat, and we need to
be making sure they're treatedwell.
And sometimes you just have tosay, you know what, rising tides
(25:36):
lift all boats.
Let's educate, let's make surepeople are doing things well.
And I think that kind of thingcomes back around.
SPEAKER_01 (25:41):
Yeah, and that I think is good credit to the
faculty, the orca.
Yeah, for sure, man.
SPEAKER_00 (25:47):
Yeah, for sure.
So yeah, so we cover Orca, wecover the symposium.
Any other things that you'reworking on in the future that
you can detail, or are you gonnakeep teasing us?
SPEAKER_01 (25:55):
Yeah, so there's I've got three projects cooking.
One we just released today,actually.
Okay, tell me about it.
Yeah, so it's called ArchEd.
And uh so thinking about the theeducational process of a doctor
getting a full arch, a livesurgery, which is orca has like
or should be the tail end.
(26:16):
We take applications and we makesure it's appropriate.
We don't want to not only wastetheir time and money, but also
it's really important for safetyfor the patients.
Like we really care about that.
What I had been doing is that'scalled the All-NX Masterclass,
which is a USA-based didactic,cadiver.
Yep.
I was talking with my buddies,Nestor and Raj and Juan, and we
(26:39):
were doing the same thing, maybea little different.
And we're just like, dude, we'reall doing the same thing.
What are you guys teaching?
And all of us were like, we'reteaching everything.
We're like, we're doing that ina weekend?
Why don't we combine and thencreate a curriculum?
And so what the idea behindArchEd is to create that
(27:03):
standard of full arch education,just like Orca is on the live
surgery front.
But ArchEd is different becauseit's USA-based, it's hands-on
cadaver, but in in a continuum.
Yeah, I just got I didn't likethe fact that a didactic was in
person because there's docs arenot always absorbing everything.
(27:25):
There might be somethingdistracting, or they might have
a question, or they missedsomething because they were
listening doing something else.
And so, okay, how do we solvethat?
Put it online.
So what we're doing isasynchronous online didactic
education that's not out yet,it's almost there.
But the in-person side is goingto be specific to a certain set
(27:48):
of topics.
One of my I guess disagreementswith what I've been doing
internally was like, okay, thisperson wants to learn Zygras,
this person wants to learn M.
This one is fresh out and justwants to learn basic.
Like we have to switch gears.
None of the like it's verydilute the amount of information
we can get into because each oneis very nuanced, and I think
(28:11):
they deserve that.
What we're doing is in thisyear, what we're doing is basic
or introduction, everything butthe zygomatic, which I think to
me is the most exciting, andthen the remote anchorage stuff,
and then we have a course calledArch Nemesis, which is like a
plan where you know, like thenemesis of the arch is
(28:31):
prosthetic complications withyeah, two that's yeah, two
brilliant guys, Anthony Pilato.
Both of them are prostheticists,both of them have labs.
Like they and the calls that Iget on with those guys to to
discuss the course and what areyou talking about, they're on a
different level of prosthetic.
SPEAKER_00 (28:49):
That is like my full arch chat GPT.
I send him texts all the time.
Hey man, I just saw a post aboutthis.
What do you think?
And he'll send me like threeparagraphs, and I don't get any
of it.
And I'm like, hey man, justthank you for putting that
together.
Really appreciate you puttingyour thought into it.
I don't understand.
SPEAKER_01 (29:02):
I learned something new every time with those guys,
but yeah, that's really cool.
Yeah, yeah.
This year we've got February 6ththrough 8 in Austin, Texas, the
full Arch is full auto, which isat the gun range and shooting
full automatic guns.
That is zygoptergoid transnasalonly.
So we're gonna be going throughlike quad strategies, the
(29:23):
nuances of zygo one, two, andthree, which actually have
different types ofcomplications.
If you ever had a zygomatic tipinto the sinus before, yeah,
when you try to screw it in, butthere is a science behind that
that I've broken down, andthat's what we go through.
And that's something that Idon't get to do if everything's
diluted with a whole mix of anaudience, is I can't go into
those small nuances, which isreally it makes a huge
(29:44):
difference in practice.
That's six through eight.
We're gonna hit the cadaver labtoo, and uh and then the full
arch internship or ways of thearches with Nestor is the
introduction/slash deep diveinto the basics, just March 24
to 27 in uh Yuma, Arizona, andthen you go over the border into
Mexico and do all this crazystuff with flamethrowers and
(30:06):
shoot more guns and blows.
Yeah, exactly.
And the new segment that I'mreally excited about is called
Vice City Arches.
So it's Max Villas in Miami.
Um, it's gonna be at theFountain Blue Hotel, um, Cadaver
Lab also April 10 through 12.
And it's everything but thezygomatics, so palatal approach,
(30:28):
trans minus M configuration,double V point.
We'll go through pterygoids aswell there.
But yeah, the goal there is tolike expand someone's scope
without going big.
And I think the longer Ipractice, the more I realize
that case doesn't need a zyger,that one doesn't need a zyger,
(30:48):
that one doesn't need and solike I've got and I'm writing a
paper right now with Oli Jensenabout the M configuration, the
utility of it, because the mathbreaks down that you can have
five to six millimeters ofsubnasal bone and pull off an M
configuration with 13 to 16millimeter implants.
Yeah, it's nuts, and so I thinkthe knee-jerk reaction for a lot
(31:10):
of people when you see a pan ora CT with that much bone is
quads, and like which I get it,it's but like this is a lot more
sophistication in terms ofutilizing every last bit of it
without compromise.
Um that's one that I'm reallyexcited about, but yeah, that's
uh that that's the in-personstuff.
(31:31):
I'm excited because I have Ijust bought a bunch of 3D
printers in my house, FDM ones,not the resin.
But we we have actual CT models.
I don't know if like you you'vebeen to a course and like the
models, like a generic one, andoh yeah, they squeak and they
fracture the noise itself justdrives me nuts.
But I wanted to also disruptthat segment because so like the
(31:55):
online stuff I think is verydisruptive in itself, but the
models, the actual education youget from that is is very
valuable.
SPEAKER_00 (32:03):
So it's an actual bone facsimile, like it's
actually similar to bone itself,is that what we're saying?
Because you're using the FDMresin for it.
SPEAKER_01 (32:09):
Yeah, the particular configuration that we have I've
tested and it feels and torqueslike bone, it's not, it doesn't
crack, and it's an actualpatient of mine.
So I have palatal approach, Ihave trans sinus, I have intra
sinus zygos, I have quad zygos,I have every scenario that you
can think of, and we're gonna dobe deploying those at each of
(32:30):
these because like the models weget from vendors, like they're
just they're so generic, youcan't really learn anything off
those things.
Yeah, um, yeah, that's anotheraspect to it.
Another thing that I'm reallyexcited about is we're gonna be
offering mentorship as well.
And then lastly, the what I cantalk about now is the vault.
(32:50):
What I've been doing a lot ofrecording point of view.
So I have a head camera that hasa point of view video, and so I
have a library on YouTube that Ikeep semi-private.
I can send you some of my my uhmy videos.
Yeah, uh, I only share like fivepercent of it, probably.
SPEAKER_00 (33:06):
Yeah, yeah.
It actually I gotta give creditto you.
So one of them was I think itwas like a 30-minute arch that
you did, and it was just anindentualist maxilla, and I
learned about how you flap anarch, right?
So the way you use a mold nineand how you it's hard for me to
actually say what it is, butwhen you see you're like, holy
shit, you can just use two handsand you can really muscle it
like that.
Yeah, but delicately, of course.
Yeah, that taught me a lot.
Like, I my arches are fasterbecause of that video.
(33:28):
So I wouldn't have to see yourvault.
This is like uh Prince's vaultof unreleased music that there's
just way more unreleased musicthan he ever actually released.
This is great.
SPEAKER_01 (33:37):
Yeah, absolutely, man.
I think we have all of our ownsurgical habits and the way we
do things in dentistry, but justseeing something a different way
and the sequence that he does itcan save you so much time and
headache.
So I have a pretty extensivelibrary, and the other guys, and
Esther, Juan, and Raj are doingthe same thing.
So we're gonna be having all ofthese videos in this vault for
(33:58):
people to look at differentscenarios, quads, revision of
quads, complications, basic alland four trans sinus, all that
stuff will be in the vault,which cool hasn't been done yet.
Yeah, they're brand new to theindustry.
But but yeah, that's what I cando disclose right now.
We have um we have a wait listfor the online right now because
(34:19):
it's not released yet.
We're still finishing and makingsure it's good.
So once it gets released, likeif you sign up for the wait
list, you'll get like firstnotification, probably a big
discount too, if you know you'reon the wait list versus buying
it later.
Of course.
Um, but yeah, we have besidesthat, we have some really,
really cool stuff coming.
I don't like getting into anindustry just to compete, like
(34:42):
disrupting.
Um and that's the intention hereis to really disrupt and because
there's so much uh educationthat is just like so I just want
this, I want there to be astandard, I want there to be
like one place, like a goldstandard, and that's what we're
striving for, is for people toreally nail these things and do
(35:04):
a great job, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (35:06):
Great.
So I guess in summary, so youjust talked about a lot of
things.
Is the Arch Ed concepteverything you just talked
about, how it weaves togetherall these courses, the vault,
all of that, or are they totallyseparate ventures?
SPEAKER_01 (35:17):
No, so everything that I just talked about is an
Arch Ed.
It's uh under that umbrella.
Um we are also gonna be doing, Ithink for a particular amount of
people for the online segment,having a we're like we'll mail
you models and the implants, andthen you can uh walk alongside
(35:38):
us doing it so you can get aboard for it.
SPEAKER_00 (35:41):
Oh, I love that.
Yeah, this is something I'm soglad you're doing this because
we live in an age where it's soeasy to get a custom bio model
for a patient to be using theselike generic models, like it's
just so unnecessary.
I have on my desk, this is myquad zygo patient that I did
like last month.
Yeah, and now whenever we'retraining doctors, or or not
training, but like wheneverwe're orienting doctors in one
of our offices, whenever theyhave their first case, like we
(36:02):
just go ahead and say, Hey,look, we're gonna segment this
out for you.
Go, this is your model for yourpatient, practice this, have it
already memorized in your head,be able to visualize that, and
then we'll do it in person.
It's just such a better way todo things.
And like we have the technology,like it's such an easy thing to
do now.
We have AI, like there's noexcuse not to not to be able to
simulate this.
So I love that you're doingthat.
I love that you're doing it withthose FDM bone resins.
I've heard great things aboutthem.
(36:23):
Don't, I don't have one myself,but man, that's fantastic.
I love that you're doing that.
And that's a great way to domentorship.
Yeah, for that case inparticular, I had Chris Barrett
come out.
He helped me with a case and heplanned it for me so I can kind
of get a visualization of it.
I printed it out, I did it atthe office, and then he came
over.
And the night before we're kindof reviewing it and how I
approached it.
And then when we did it, it waslike, I've already done it
before.
This is I've already seen this.
It's just it used to be gray,now it's white.
(36:43):
Yeah.
And uh that's the way to do it.
Like you you've already beenthere before.
And I I really believe invisualization and like being
able to walk through the surgeryand everything you're gonna do
mentally before you actually doit.
And things go so much smootherthat way.
And you're just not able to dothat if you have a generic
model.
I know we're talking a lot aboutmodels, but this is like a
really good point that you'vemade here, and I'm glad that
you're doing that.
SPEAKER_01 (37:02):
Yeah, absolutely.
If you think that's cool once werelease the next thing, if it's
cool with you, I'll hop back onand talk about that because this
is the next level.
SPEAKER_00 (37:14):
It's yeah, man.
This show, I just want to provhelp provide value to people.
I'm not here to sell anything.
I just I really want people tolearn more about what we do and
just get really freaking good atit.
And it sounds like what you'reputting together is exactly what
the full arch world needs interms of education.
It's something that's weavingtogether so many different
courses is doing it in acoherent and comprehensive way
to really create excellence forpeople and make sure the
(37:35):
patients are getting treatedright.
And I know we've both seen thewinter that we've all said is
coming.
Like it's been here for years.
We've been seeing it in ourclinics and uh and the way we
fix that is with knowledge andeducation and just being better
at it.
Gone are the days of just theweekend course where we just try
to crash people into doing casesand they go try and do it on
Monday, and it turns into anabsolute shit show.
And people are at the tail endof that.
And we have to think about theend user, and it all starts with
(37:56):
just making sure that we'reteaching people the right things
and saving people the lessonsthat we've had to learn the hard
way.
I think it's an amazing time tobe getting into full arch.
Yes, it's getting extremelypopular and it's getting more
saturated, but there's moreresources now than ever.
I think back to when I was likea D2 in dental school and I just
learned about and knew aboutdental implants, but I learned
about the power of them and thatI it was something I really
(38:16):
wanted to focus on.
And there were online courses.
There were like really expensiveCEs that you go to in person for
three days, and you'd be reallyexcited the first day, and then
the next day your eyes startglossing over.
Then by the third day, you'rejust trying to go home.
And then you're trying to go andyou're trying to do it in
practice.
And at the end of the day, likethere's just so many pitfalls
that you ran into that couldhave been prevented had your
education been a little bit morecomprehensive, intentional, had
(38:37):
there been mentorship attachedto that, and had there been some
of the things that you'retalking about right now.
So please, as you come out withthis, I'm more than happy to
help spread the word.
People are always coming to meabout where they should go for
education.
I always have many people, mostof the people have been on our
show have their own course, andI'll say, hey, you should go to
that course and learn from them.
But it sounds like what you'vedone is gonna weave together a
lot of the best people doingthis.
And it's just gonna make it asimple way to say, hey, look, go
(38:59):
do our chat.
Just go through that.
And once I know that you've gonethrough that and you've done the
online stuff, you've done thein-person, you've done some live
surgeries, like I I have apretty good idea of how
competent you are.
So please, yeah, let's do that.
You're more than welcome to comeback on the show and I'm happy
to help spread the word.
SPEAKER_01 (39:12):
Yeah, sounds good, man.
You know, when it comes down toit, I think I'm blessed to have
a really cool network of reallytalented people and just
bringing everybody together toto share that the information
that they are really good at.
That's the name of the game.
Um and yeah, I I think anybodythat signs up will be uh blown
away with the amount of theamount of confidence they come
(39:32):
out with.
A lot of lot of really goodcourses out there.
And at the same time, like thisis asynchronous, you can do it
on your couch, you can rewind,which is a big deal, and then at
the same time, you can askquestions too and join a really
great community.
I think this is going to be ahuge hit, not only in the US,
but also internationally,because anybody on the internet
can get it.
And yeah, just hoping thatthere's less or there's better
(39:54):
work that comes out when otherpatients come to our offices.
We look at an x-ray of randompatients that has an arch and
we're like, damn, they did anice job.
Yeah, yeah, that's that's a goodfeeling.
I don't really see I I that'swhat I want to see is in the
future is like really awesomecases from other people.
SPEAKER_00 (40:11):
Yeah, it's a good feeling just seeing excellent
work.
And I I think about so many ofthe courses that I've gone to,
and it's borderlinedisrespectful, but whenever I'm
in a course and I'm like reallyengaged in it, like I'm on my
phone the entire time becauseI'm I just have a notes page,
like I have an outline, and I'mliterally just trying to get
every piece of information downbecause so often like you don't
get the slides at the end, youdon't really capture the certain
things that were said, and it'slike you're left with maybe
(40:33):
retaining from dental school,you might remember five percent
of the shit you're taught,frankly.
Same thing happens in CE, andthen trying to remember this
stuff, and I would go back tocourses multiple times because I
just couldn't remember certainthings.
And so I I think thatdemocratizing that, having it
online, having it something youcan literally just pop in your
office and review before you gointo your case, it's a beautiful
thing.
It should be that way.
And I think that you're thinkingabundantly about this.
(40:54):
And the more we do that, and themore we share, and the more we
try to make each other better,the better off we're gonna be.
I think the worst thing you cando is just get in this mindset
that, oh, I know full arch andonly I know full arch, and I'm
not trying to share this.
And, you know, that reallystifles you because there's so
many things that you can learnfrom other people.
And by sharing that with others,they hold you accountable to
making yourself better,incorporating new things, and
(41:14):
and just doing better work.
And that's just that's I thinkthat's the long game.
That's the only way you can.
This is for a long time, it'sjust by getting better and doing
better care.
Because when you're just doingeverything real quick and fast
and you're not learning fromothers, those cases come back a
lot sooner.
And uh, this doesn't this reallyisn't as fun when that starts
happening.
I love what you're doing, Simon,and I look forward to everything
that you've been able todisclose and all the things that
you can't disclose.
(41:34):
And I hope that when you'reready to disclose that we can be
an outlet for that.
SPEAKER_01 (41:37):
Yeah, clearly.
We'll hop back on here.
Yeah, really excited about thenext 12 months.
Cool.
Arched, orca, the those twothings, I think, and smart maps
technologies with with Sven.
I'm not a technical contributor,those guys are way too smart.
Like I don't add much valueother than business advice.
Right.
But yeah, those those guys, whatwe're what we're getting ready
(42:01):
to release is uh like coming outof left field and just making
people think to themselves,like, I didn't know you could do
that, or like, man, like thatthat's such a good idea.
Like those kind of those kind ofthings, the engineers over there
are top notch and as in a leagueof his own.
SPEAKER_00 (42:17):
Yeah, I mean that that's what full arch has been
for me.
Like I've been in the game for alittle while now, and the way
that full arch is being donetoday is almost completely
foreign to the way it was when Ifirst got out.
Oh, totally.
Yeah, it's every few months Isee someone doing something that
I'm like, I didn't even knowthat was legal.
I didn't know that I didn't knowthat that was within the
boundaries of what we could do.
(42:39):
And then you start doing it andyou realize, oh man, I should
have been doing this the wholetime.
Right.
Inundation is what's driving usforward.
And it's just a fast, it's sucha fast developing segment of
dentistry that's incorporatingnew technology, it's
incorporating AI, it'sincorporating new surgical
techniques all the time.
And if you don't have your earto the ground, you're gonna be
behind so fast.
And uh, and that's why it's soimportant to keep educating
(42:59):
yourself and staying on top ofit and going deep with it.
I do believe that if you'regonna do full arch, do full arch
and do it for real.
Don't just dabble in it, don'tdip your toes because you'll get
burned.
So, yeah, man, I'm super excitedfor the next 12 months as well.
Super excited to see you inperson at Orca and everyone else
that's gonna be in attendance.
I'm sure it's gonna be a ton ofpeople and hopefully there'll be
some fixed fans as well.
SPEAKER_01 (43:16):
Yeah, absolutely, man.
No, really excited for the next12 months, man.
And yeah, great to be on here asalways, man.
It's always a good time.
SPEAKER_00 (43:23):
All right, Doc.
All right.
So next time, thank you so much.
Thanks, bro.
See ya.
See ya.
My name is Dr.
Tyler Tolbert.
And I'm Dr.
Soren Poppy.
And you're listening to theFixed Podcast, your source for
all things implant dentistry.
Hello, and welcome back toanother episode of the Fixed
Podcast.
I have yet another esteemedguest.
I don't know how I keep liningthem up, but I've got another
really amazing guest here, Dr.
Simon O.
You have to know him by now.
If you don't, you've probablyjust stumbled at the world of
(01:41):
fixed full arch dentistry.
I've interviewed Dr.
Simon before on the show.
We've talked a lot about what hedoes in his own private practice
with his group of practices aswell.
We can talk about that.
But really, what I think hascaused a whole lot of buzz in
our industry is his efforts withOrca.
So that's a really amazingfoundation where they're going
down to Central America.
And the acronym of course isOperation Reidentiolate Central
(02:04):
America.
And they're doing some of thehighest level full Arch
education down there, everywherefrom pretty much, I wouldn't say
zero to one, but pretty muchwading into full arch all the
way up to advanced remoteanchorage.
And then after the courseconcludes, they then bring in a
whole bunch of specialistsurgeons and do really the most
amazing oral surgery that'shappening pretty much anywhere.
And Simon has had a lot to dowith the foundation of that and
(02:26):
has had so much to do with thegrowing and proliferation of it.
So it's a real honor to have himon the show.
And I just want to welcome you,welcome you back.
Yeah, thanks a lot, man.
It's always good to be here.
Yeah, for sure.
For those of my audience thatdon't know or haven't listened
to former episodes, could yougive us like a brief synopsis of
who you are, where you'repracticing, the things you're
doing, and lead us into whatmade Orca, what it is now, how
(02:47):
much it's grown.
SPEAKER_01 (02:48):
Yeah, for sure.
So I reside outside ofPhiladelphia in the suburbs.
I have a group practice.
Right now we're about seven deepin the Mid-Atlantic region.
Cool.
Um, and yeah, we focus on fullarch, but it's not all full
arch.
The reason why we set up the waywe did it, it's a full scope
cross type practice is the way Idescribe it with a strong
(03:09):
backbone in surgery.
We do a ton of arches.
I think if you ever talk toanybody at the places that only
offer one or two services, likeyou always hear there's a couple
cases I probably should havedone something else to refer to
them out or something like that.
So a 25-year-old girl who wantsa nice set of teeth and just has
some staining, we can offer themsomething different.
SPEAKER_00 (03:28):
Probably not the ideal FP3 case.
SPEAKER_01 (03:30):
Yeah, exactly.
But yeah, that's the practiceside, it's pretty
straightforward and we all arepractice thing.
But with with Orca, that that'sa real passion project.
The fun fact is I was the firstperson in Central American
history to place a zygomaticimplant.
Um no way.
Yeah, that's a move.
Which is it it's definitelycool, but like sad at the same
(03:50):
time because zygas were first onthe 80s and they never had
access to that kind of treat.
I I met with UFM, thisuniversity, top university uh
dental school in Guatemala,through Dr.
Eldad Drury.
I sent him down for a basicimplant course, met Rodrigo
Carriaga, and both of them arenow my partners in this project.
(04:11):
Um yeah, once we saw the likethe emotions come out of these
patients who were like 40 yearswith no solutions, we were like,
okay, we got to keep doing this,and we figured we could do it
ourselves, which we can only goso fast.
But if we were to deploy aneducational side, it would not
(04:31):
only take care of thefinancials, but also give us the
opportunity to scale up.
And so each time you go downthere, I think the metric is
like an average of 1200 years ofaddentalism that we end uh the
average person's 25 years orsomething like that.
SPEAKER_00 (04:46):
I remember when you were first telling me about what
kind of got this initiativegoing, is you said that in this
particular area in Guatemala,it's very customary that when
someone turned 15 or 16 yearsold, they go ahead and identify
them pretty much as soon as theyhad cavities, just because it
saved them the inconvenience oflosing them one by one.
So some of these people they'vebeen their entire adult lives
have they been addentalists, andthat's why you're having these
(05:07):
extremely atrophic cases.
SPEAKER_01 (05:08):
Dude, yeah, it's crazy.
I just like that being a gift.
Like they don't have the basicthe basic care to do that.
And so, yeah, at some point, themission of what we're doing is
not only to end this and like II look at it as a problem of
just that.
It's like they're gettingidentified way too early.
And so, like, we're trying tofix the current issues of
identialism, but ultimately whatI'd love to do is, and I'm
(05:32):
working on it, is to create apediatric program just to
provide the care.
Because like I I think whatsuccess looks like for us is to
put ourselves out of full archbusiness, like to for them to be
able to actually sustainthemselves and have teeth.
I it's a pretty difficult thingbecause of like the amount of
poverty ripped over there andlike the just complete lack of
(05:55):
access to, especially likeremote areas.
We have people come in from17-hour bus rides just to come
see it.
So I don't know how feasibleit's gonna be, but it's worth a
shot.
SPEAKER_00 (06:05):
Um you could do to burn that candle at both ends,
even with all the people thatare coming through there and
doing the courses, there's justno way you could just get on top
of that problem and get the tailend of it.
There's it's impossible.
SPEAKER_01 (06:14):
Yeah, for sure.
It it's a problem here in theUS.
And uh, I think the amount ofdesperate nest down there is so
much higher.
And so yeah, we're we're we'redoing that, and then they the
surgeons down there were askingme if I had some friends that
could take care of because theywere starting to show me like,
can this get a zygo?
And it was a patient with a hugeresection and like the sinuses
(06:36):
wide open.
I'm like, probably not, but letme give my buddy a call.
That's how that evolved is uhwith Caitlyn Patel, Joe
Camarada, Stevie Spav, ZachBrown, Juan Gonzalez, who you
know, and a handful of others,like they they're just like good
people that have the skills thatthey need.
So yeah, we're doing a lot ofmicrovascular and we're getting
(06:59):
into uh cleflip and palate andthings of that nature.
Yeah, just trying to do the bestwe can.
That's the name of the game.
SPEAKER_00 (07:04):
Wow, that's fantastic.
So, how many courses are youguys doing a year?
And approximately how manytricklines do you have every
time?
SPEAKER_01 (07:12):
Yeah, right now we're doing twice a year.
I'd love to do more, but it'sjust a matter of and it's not
the demand from the like thestudents, like there's unlimited
demand.
They're always sold out.
So it has more to do with thetime that we are able to put
aside for that, and then also Ithink we stress the university.
(07:32):
I think because like webasically take over the whole
school and they're down there,yeah.
But yeah, I'd say each coursethere's probably like 30 or so
students total, and we haveusually about 120, or at least
the last time we had about 120people down there from the US
and a broader outside the UStoo.
SPEAKER_00 (07:50):
And so those that are looking to get involved in
this, I believe you guys havedifferent tiers for experience
levels and what people arehoping to learn there.
Can you tell us a little bitabout that?
SPEAKER_01 (07:59):
Yeah, uh, so we uh we have we just launched the
very basic stuff.
So, like level one is what wecall it, which is like entry to
implants.
And we have that, we juststarted it um and it's getting
busy.
And then after that, what werecommend is doing a prosthetics
course.
You learn digital full arch andhow to restore it.
I always whenever I mentorsomebody that wants to do
(08:21):
surgery, I'm like, okay, howmany have you restored?
And that way you can actually bereally good at this.
Cause like, yeah, withoutunderstanding the complications
that can arise from lack of APspread and all that kind of
stuff, like you it doesn'treally click.
Like we all read it in a book,but what does it actually look
like in real life?
And it gets messy.
Um so then prosthetics courserestoring, or at least being a
(08:43):
part of 50 to 60.
I think last time we did about65 arches and taught by the Mod
Institute and Shere Ruperellio,who are like the best in terms
of uh restoration.
Um and then after that we havelevel two, is what we call it,
which is conventional on four onX.
So like pretty standard,straightforward, good sinuses, a
(09:05):
lot of mandible, that sort ofdeal.
After that is the remoteanchorage.
So is the most extreme atrophy,like quad zygos, transnasals,
pterygoids.
There's a couple that we thatare are if I saw it in the
States, I'd be like, man, ifthis is this is hard.
You know, it's good to dobecause that means that we're
(09:26):
making the biggest impacts forthose kind of cases.
But yeah, we also have FP1 withknife sonata as well.
And we have uh a subperiostealhere and there.
I don't believe in them as firstline treatment, but like there
are certainly cases where itshould be.
And we do that with Sam Durek.
SPEAKER_00 (09:42):
Uh yeah, yeah.
We just had him on the show, Iguess it was about a month ago,
is when we recorded.
Yeah, I learned a lot aboutthat.
He's just he's a walk-intextbook, and it's like an
historical record of everythingsubperiosteal and bringing us
all the way from the beginningpretty much to where we're at
modern day.
Are you guys doing now?
He's a big advocate for doing onthe lower.
Are you guys doing some uppercustomized as well here and
(10:03):
there?
SPEAKER_01 (10:03):
Or I haven't.
I we haven't done any of thosedown there.
I always feel as though like ifyou they can get a PSI or the
ones that go into the zygomas,like you can get a zygo.
Imagine where they have azygote.
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (10:16):
So the angle along which you're able to engage it.
I I guess I do see some casesevery now and then where you
know the zy when you're lookingat it at the axial view and
you're looking at that zygomaticarch and it's not as thick as
it's four millimeters orsomething like that.
You can transverse it at acertain angle, maybe with some
zygos.
I think Dr.
Holtzclaw recently posted onInstagram like an amazing case
(10:37):
that he was reviewing.
That I I'm no zygote expert, butwhen I was looking at it, I was
like, there's no way that's gotto be a PSI case.
Through his wizardry, he figuredout a way to transverse that and
use the hypotenuse of that angleand get a little bit more belly
engagement.
But uh, but yeah, the stuff youguys have been doing on there
has been amazing.
I saw a flapless zygo you guysdid, some of the left pallet
reconstructions, big tumor casesand stuff like that.
Really amazing work that youguys are doing on there.
(10:58):
It's just so much to learn.
And and I believe also you guys,let's say someone just wanted to
learn as much as they could, butwasn't necessarily trying to be
an operator, they can go downthere and they can also shadow,
right?
Like they can see everythingthat's going on down there.
SPEAKER_01 (11:11):
Yeah, yeah.
We have a lot of those peoplejust because I I think like
they're realizing that it it's ahigh impact thing because not
only are they getting thedidactic education and the
there's a lot of value in justlike being around people who
know stuff and are willing toshare.
Um just being around them for aweek, like you observe so much,
and then on top of that, youobserve like in unbelievable
(11:33):
cases.
Yeah, yeah.
Um yeah, it's a pretty popularsegment.
Yeah, I think it's prettyvaluable for people getting into
it.
That dipping their toes in, notready to jump in yet.
SPEAKER_00 (11:42):
Awesome, awesome.
So that kind of brings us up tothe present of where Worka
started and where it's at now.
Can you tell us about what'scoming in the future?
Are we looking at expanding theoperations in other places?
We got some new courses comingup.
You already mentioned the FP1stuff coming.
SPEAKER_01 (11:57):
Yeah, that that's Guatemala.
That honestly, that's like whereI love to be.
I love their place.
I'm working on some stuffprobably not ready to share yet,
but pretty big stuff that Icould share one of the times.
But what we're working on rightnow is an expansion to other
places.
I think we've made a good splashin that in that town, and uh
we're definitely staying for thelong term.
(12:19):
I do want to ramp up and and getmore done.
65 or so is great.
I'd love to see it where we'redoing like 200 a week when we're
down there.
Yeah, it's just a lot ofmanpower, and like whenever I
love scaling stuff, I love itbrings a lot of challenges that
are fun to work through.
And yeah, so it's just a matterof systemizing and getting the
(12:41):
operations in place.
But that's Central America.
We're also working, we just hadour first one in Egypt in Cairo.
Um, yeah, so we have ourEuropean friends.
Guatemala's rather convenient toget to from America, but there's
a lot of European interest to tonot only teach, but also or not
(13:01):
teach, but uh yeah, teach, butalso learn, but at the same time
do a good thing.
We we just had our first onewith our Italian friends,
Emmanuel Coppola and uh GregarioRodai.
They just taught the first onein Cairo, and they're doing
another one next year as well.
We're also looking at SouthAmerica, Asia, and I believe
(13:23):
India was another one on thelist.
And believe it or not, it'sfunny because the in in the
Middle East you have some prettyrich areas like Dubai and the
UAE, but they don't have verygood full arch, I guess you can
call it skill set.
So we're looking to go out theretoo.
I think we have some goodcontacts, not me personally, but
some of our colleagues uh andpartners.
(13:43):
Just trying to end thetoothlessness suffering.
Yeah, that life's gonna suck.
SPEAKER_00 (13:48):
Like really, no, it really does.
No, it really does.
And selfishly, I hear about allthese different places you guys
are gonna do it.
And it's like it'd be cool tohave a charitable excuse to go
to Dubai.
That's I'm just going there tohelp, you know.
That's all.
SPEAKER_02 (14:02):
We focus.
SPEAKER_00 (14:03):
But yeah, that that's fantastic.
Would you say that you guys justhad this one in Cairo?
Is there any particular reasonthat someone in America might
want to go to the Cairo oneinstead of Guatemala?
Maybe there's like a differenttype of education there, it's
different educators, it's atotally different environment.
Maybe there's something theycould gain from that.
Maybe they've already gone toGuatemala and they're looking
for maybe a slightly differentexperience.
(14:24):
Is it any different or are youmostly just recreating it in
different places for the purposeof access?
SPEAKER_01 (14:29):
Yeah, it's for the purpose of access.
Um and the convenience for localmarkets.
Okay.
I think the only times we've hadany kind of requests for Egypt
from the US are if a particulardoctor has like family ties or
like they're from Egypt orsomething, they're motivated to
help their own country.
Um, it's getting to Guatemalafrom here is so convenient.
(14:51):
Oh, yeah, it's Egypt is brutal.
It's brutal.
Yeah, brutal quite.
But yeah, it's intended for theEuropean docs because yeah, it's
it's tough to get to Guatemalafrom Europe.
SPEAKER_00 (15:02):
Sure, sure.
And then I know we got I'mparticularly excited myself.
I just signed up for the OrcaSymposium, so that's coming out
mid-January.
I've been telling everybodyabout it.
I want it to be just a bigparty.
I want everyone, I want all thefull arch people out there.
I've been sharing the codeswidely.
But yeah, can we talk a littlebit about that?
The things that excite you themost about it, what's changed
since the first annualsymposium?
SPEAKER_01 (15:21):
Yeah, definitely excited.
So this year is at the FourSeasons Hotel.
We basically have the entirehotel, so it's just gonna be
like full arch docks in theentirety of the building.
We have we have a great lineup,very excited about.
So we're doing it a little bitdifferently this year.
I think differently, but thesame.
Last year we did a lot ofextreme reconstruction, which I
(15:43):
guess we're doing again, butwith a different perspective.
Okay.
And a lot of it was zygofocused.
This year we're trying to have alittle bit of a different lens
on it.
So same, it's similar in that wehave a good combination of
history, good techniques, andfuture.
So last year we had Dr.
Oli Jensen, who's the pioneervolant for in the US, like the
(16:06):
pioneer.
This year we have CarlosAparicio who is pioneering the
modern day zygo.
Um and then Mike Picos doingsubs, Sam Jurick doing subs.
But we're also getting into likesoft tissue.
I think that's like theoverlooked stepchild of Falarch.
Is you pretty much live in nighby it, but we just don't get we
don't get psyched about it.
(16:26):
Yeah, or yeah, they're cooler,you get to like really jam
things in, and yeah, that's fun.
Yeah, soft tissue.
Not as cool, but I thinkespecially with all the cases
being done, I think people arestarting to realize the
importance of it.
Um, yeah, you bet.
Yeah, so we've got that.
I also wanted to provide somereally good insights on how to
(16:47):
avoid the zygomatics.
So that's like kind of a bigtheme this year is sinus M
configuration transpalatalapproach from Rodriguez.
I think that's gonna be valuablein for the people looking for
knowledge.
We also have a segment on AI inthe future, how that actually
looks like the next couple ofyears.
(17:08):
It's not five, ten years, it'slike now.
SPEAKER_00 (17:11):
No, it's like six months, maybe.
SPEAKER_01 (17:12):
Yeah, exactly.
So, like we we've got we've gotSteve Flow of Voyager who has
like an awesome AI generateddesign function.
SPEAKER_00 (17:20):
Oh, cool.
SPEAKER_01 (17:20):
Yeah, so like you just input the data, click a
button, and then about threeminutes later you have a design
full extra amazing.
SPEAKER_00 (17:27):
Yeah, yeah.
I think uh I think the last timewe had you on, I asked you about
what you were most excitedabout.
And I think it was AI.
And the what we were talkingabout at the time was you upload
a C B C T and the AI is gonnasegment it and it's gonna figure
out what's gonna be the bestconfiguration for implants,
right?
Like how are we gonna distributethis?
Let's just find the maximumareas of bone and get really
good anchors there.
(17:48):
I and I think now we'rerealizing that's just like
that's small potatoes.
Like this is the start, likewe're getting to the point now
where someone's gonna come inthe door, they're gonna get C B
C T some photos and stuff.
You pump that in.
Not only did you did it tell youwhere you're gonna put your
implants, but it gave you thedesign.
It prepped you for your surgery,you're gonna do your surgery,
it's gonna spit out yoursurgical temp in no time at all.
Yeah.
And it's gonna be it's gonnaincorporate some stuff from spin
(18:09):
bone, it's gonna have FEAanalysis and all that.
It's all gonna happen in theblink of an eye.
And this stuff is just it'sgetting away from us so quickly.
It's fascinating to talk about.
And I think the for the peoplethat stand to gain the most are
the ones that are just listeningand just seeing that curve as
it's coming around.
And yeah, that that's awesome.
I love you guys are talkingabout that because that is
really it's transforming everyindustry.
But the things I think a lot ofus hold dear and the things that
(18:29):
our industry is segmented with,right?
Like design and and implantplanning, all these things, like
these things are going to bevery immaterial.
We're not gonna rely on othercompanies to do it for us.
It's going to be there.
It's an amazing time.
Amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (18:42):
Yeah, yeah.
So I've been doing, I've beenlearning the process side of it
on the digital flow lately.
And I'm blown away with how muchof it is just mindless labor.
Like a lot of it.
It's uploading files, it'sclicking the supports on the
teeth, which is like the mostcome on.
Yeah, yeah.
And then and then the designitself is like rotating the
(19:04):
image and then filling in thisspot and creating the and
sculpting the gingable margin.
Yeah, like all that is it'slabor.
And it's yeah, honestly,something that could and really
ought to be at something thatprobably in the next couple
years to be fully automated.
I'm excited for that.
After that, I'm excitedcautiously about robotics
(19:27):
stepping in because I'm excitedbecause my body hurts for one.
I get that, yeah.
But at the same time, like howmuch of that is going to ruin
our industry and really umreally put docs out of work.
So yeah, it's a scary yetthrilling sort of thing to think
(19:48):
about.
I think the thing that's in theway, which is probably gonna be
our friend, is FDA, you know,because as much as I I'd like to
think that they are they are allfor what's best and with good
outcomes and all that kind ofstuff, there's money involved.
And so the associations of allthese different uh groups are
gonna lobby and make sure andtry to keep autonomous robotics
(20:10):
out.
We'll see what happens, but justtrying to live for the day.
SPEAKER_00 (20:14):
Yeah, it's what we see is this kind of diminishing
importance of actual skill, likeany personal skill that you've
actually developed, things thatwe painstakingly developed.
I when you mentioned design, I Iwas putting together all my CE
for my Du Bois fellowship, and Icame across my uh I gone to MOD,
right, and Wally Renee, and likethey've got an amazing operation
down there.
And I gone there, I think it wasNovember of 2023, and I went
(20:38):
there for their digitalremovables course because I was
trying to learn about printeddentures and how I could
incorporate that and things likethat.
And we walked through the wholeExocad design process of
immediate dentures, partials,did a little bit of hybrid
stuff, but it wasn't really forthat.
They have a separate module forthat.
And just what you're saying, I'mgoing through it, and this is no
shade to his course at all.
It's a he does fantasticeducation.
But I'm going through it and I'mlike, I'm clicking stuff and I'm
(21:00):
contouring geniva and stuff.
And in retrospect, I'm like,man, I know that people can be
so talented with that and soquick and so artistic, but in
such a short amount of time,that will be completely
obsolete.
Yeah.
And that scales to even thingsthat we do surgically, that we
may feel like magicians, like weget it out.
The operator, and we're like,wow, just did that.
(21:20):
That took this has been 10 yearsin the making.
I've been going through dentalschool and courses and
residencies and readingtextbooks and stuff.
And it's, you know what, man?
Honestly, it's only a matter oftime before that stuff really
doesn't matter.
And there's a whole newgeneration of people that are
going to come about.
They're going to see humanthings as inferior.
Like that's going to happen atsome point.
Hopefully we can all havefruitful careers before that
happens.
Because at the end of the day,what do we really have at stake?
(21:43):
What are we really going to beresponsible for?
And it may just come down tomaking a decision of whether or
not it's right for a person andthen everything else is
automated.
Scary time, exciting in a way.
Maybe it's good.
But yeah, I know I'm getting alittle off the rails, but it's
easy to do that when you reallylean into how far things have
come with AI.
SPEAKER_01 (21:58):
No, for sure.
Look, it's going to be the kindof thing where like our kids um
are going to look back and belike, they did that by hand?
Are you serious?
It's like when we see Dennis notusing gloves.
SPEAKER_00 (22:09):
That's the same thing.
They're like, oh, they use theirhands.
That's insane.
But for now, we got a job.
Yeah.
The time bang.
Yeah.
The time bang.
Yeah.
Awesome.
Any other ones that you'reexcited about for the symposium
already covered some really goodones?
SPEAKER_01 (22:22):
Oh, dude.
And there's like each one thatwe picked was like, we're
excited about that.
I honestly there's I think uh15, 20 speakers or something
like that.
Yeah, I'm I'm looking at theitinerary now.
Yeah, one other that comes tomind is Fayette William.
William John a day.
Yeah, John A Day.
I think that's gonna be reallyexciting for the oral surgeons
(22:43):
that are doing micro just to geta sense of like how to balance.
It's like you're I guess you'replacing the implants with the
guide on the fibula, which makessense, but then the process on
the fibula, it's like, how doyou do that?
Or what are you talking about?
So like yeah, and I think Ithink it's gonna spark a lot of
curiosity for the most.
(23:05):
And what I'm really interestedto see is Knife Sonata's our
moderator, uh, because like hehe's involved in some of those
cases with the fibulas, and he'seven doing them after the fact.
And so I'm really um I don'teven know what questions to ask
myself.
Like, I don't do those things.
Yeah, like I'm really interestedto see that to see if there's
any sort of concepts we can takefrom that and relate it to what
(23:27):
we do every day with Full Arch.
Just really excited for theconversations, and then after
hours, like just congregatingand being with one another.
I think one of the things thatattracts people to to our group
is is the culture.
Yeah, we're open.
Um, yeah, there there are somepersonalities and egos, but I
think the overall is that likethe knowledge that we have is to
(23:50):
be shared and we do it openlyfor the betterment of their
career and then their patients.
That's my whole thing, is that'swhy I like being in a leadership
position in like DSOs.
I know that's a bad word indentistry, but but yeah, it's if
I can do more good by helpingother people, that's scale.
And that to me is something thatthat I look and put my head down
(24:11):
at night and like that makes mefeel good, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (24:13):
Yeah, there's no way that you could do even an a
fraction of the impact thatyou've done through educating so
many people on what all thecases they're gonna do for the
rest of their careers.
And so many people they go toorca, they talk about how that
was such a pivotal moment forthem.
I have a guy that his name isGeorge Shotakis.
I think I'm probably pushing hisline.
Yeah, yeah.
He he sends me his cases andhe's like, Yeah, man, Orca will
change my life.
(24:34):
I mean, he appreciates the showas well.
He I'm a footnote, but hementions that that kind of
inspired him to go out to thosecourses and stuff like that.
And he sent him his cases andthey're meant really good.
Shout out, George.
He's gonna be doing full archfor the rest of his career, and
he owes that to the people thatthat taught him to do that.
And that's just really cool.
That that's something you don'thave to take credit for it, but
you can certainly take somepride in the impact that you
make.
So definitely applaud you formaking such a huge impact in the
(24:54):
full arch world.
And so ultimately what's soimportant is I think it's very
easy, especially if you're ifyou're in the business of full
arch, to get scarce about it,right?
Like you would get worried aboutcompetitors and other people
learning how to do what you do.
And it's like, look, at the endof the day, people are gonna
learn this if they want to doit.
There's plenty of resources,they're gonna go out and find
it.
What's important is that peopledo it well.
Yeah.
Because in in my community, whenI see cases coming through my
(25:15):
office and they were not donewell, and now I have to talk to
this patient and explain, hey, Iknow you took out a second
mortgage for this, but you'regonna have to take out another
one because this is not this isreally bad.
And you try to do that withoutwalking over someone else, but
it's it's important that thework be done well.
There's always going to bepeople to treat, and we need to
be making sure they're treatedwell.
And sometimes you just have tosay, you know what, rising tides
(25:36):
lift all boats.
Let's educate, let's make surepeople are doing things well.
And I think that kind of thingcomes back around.
SPEAKER_01 (25:41):
Yeah, and that I think is good credit to the
faculty, the orca.
Yeah, for sure, man.
SPEAKER_00 (25:47):
Yeah, for sure.
So yeah, so we cover Orca, wecover the symposium.
Any other things that you'reworking on in the future that
you can detail, or are you gonnakeep teasing us?
SPEAKER_01 (25:55):
Yeah, so there's I've got three projects cooking.
One we just released today,actually.
Okay, tell me about it.
Yeah, so it's called ArchEd.
And uh so thinking about the theeducational process of a doctor
getting a full arch, a livesurgery, which is orca has like
or should be the tail end.
(26:16):
We take applications and we makesure it's appropriate.
We don't want to not only wastetheir time and money, but also
it's really important for safetyfor the patients.
Like we really care about that.
What I had been doing is that'scalled the All-NX Masterclass,
which is a USA-based didactic,cadiver.
Yep.
I was talking with my buddies,Nestor and Raj and Juan, and we
(26:39):
were doing the same thing, maybea little different.
And we're just like, dude, we'reall doing the same thing.
What are you guys teaching?
And all of us were like, we'reteaching everything.
We're like, we're doing that ina weekend?
Why don't we combine and thencreate a curriculum?
And so what the idea behindArchEd is to create that
(27:03):
standard of full arch education,just like Orca is on the live
surgery front.
But ArchEd is different becauseit's USA-based, it's hands-on
cadaver, but in in a continuum.
Yeah, I just got I didn't likethe fact that a didactic was in
person because there's docs arenot always absorbing everything.
(27:25):
There might be somethingdistracting, or they might have
a question, or they missedsomething because they were
listening doing something else.
And so, okay, how do we solvethat?
Put it online.
So what we're doing isasynchronous online didactic
education that's not out yet,it's almost there.
But the in-person side is goingto be specific to a certain set
(27:48):
of topics.
One of my I guess disagreementswith what I've been doing
internally was like, okay, thisperson wants to learn Zygras,
this person wants to learn M.
This one is fresh out and justwants to learn basic.
Like we have to switch gears.
None of the like it's verydilute the amount of information
we can get into because each oneis very nuanced, and I think
(28:11):
they deserve that.
What we're doing is in thisyear, what we're doing is basic
or introduction, everything butthe zygomatic, which I think to
me is the most exciting, andthen the remote anchorage stuff,
and then we have a course calledArch Nemesis, which is like a
plan where you know, like thenemesis of the arch is
(28:31):
prosthetic complications withyeah, two that's yeah, two
brilliant guys, Anthony Pilato.
Both of them are prostheticists,both of them have labs.
Like they and the calls that Iget on with those guys to to
discuss the course and what areyou talking about, they're on a
different level of prosthetic.
SPEAKER_00 (28:49):
That is like my full arch chat GPT.
I send him texts all the time.
Hey man, I just saw a post aboutthis.
What do you think?
And he'll send me like threeparagraphs, and I don't get any
of it.
And I'm like, hey man, justthank you for putting that
together.
Really appreciate you puttingyour thought into it.
I don't understand.
SPEAKER_01 (29:02):
I learned something new every time with those guys,
but yeah, that's really cool.
Yeah, yeah.
This year we've got February 6ththrough 8 in Austin, Texas, the
full Arch is full auto, which isat the gun range and shooting
full automatic guns.
That is zygoptergoid transnasalonly.
So we're gonna be going throughlike quad strategies, the
(29:23):
nuances of zygo one, two, andthree, which actually have
different types ofcomplications.
If you ever had a zygomatic tipinto the sinus before, yeah,
when you try to screw it in, butthere is a science behind that
that I've broken down, andthat's what we go through.
And that's something that Idon't get to do if everything's
diluted with a whole mix of anaudience, is I can't go into
those small nuances, which isreally it makes a huge
(29:44):
difference in practice.
That's six through eight.
We're gonna hit the cadaver labtoo, and uh and then the full
arch internship or ways of thearches with Nestor is the
introduction/slash deep diveinto the basics, just March 24
to 27 in uh Yuma, Arizona, andthen you go over the border into
Mexico and do all this crazystuff with flamethrowers and
(30:06):
shoot more guns and blows.
Yeah, exactly.
And the new segment that I'mreally excited about is called
Vice City Arches.
So it's Max Villas in Miami.
Um, it's gonna be at theFountain Blue Hotel, um, Cadaver
Lab also April 10 through 12.
And it's everything but thezygomatics, so palatal approach,
(30:28):
trans minus M configuration,double V point.
We'll go through pterygoids aswell there.
But yeah, the goal there is tolike expand someone's scope
without going big.
And I think the longer Ipractice, the more I realize
that case doesn't need a zyger,that one doesn't need a zyger,
(30:48):
that one doesn't need and solike I've got and I'm writing a
paper right now with Oli Jensenabout the M configuration, the
utility of it, because the mathbreaks down that you can have
five to six millimeters ofsubnasal bone and pull off an M
configuration with 13 to 16millimeter implants.
Yeah, it's nuts, and so I thinkthe knee-jerk reaction for a lot
(31:10):
of people when you see a pan ora CT with that much bone is
quads, and like which I get it,it's but like this is a lot more
sophistication in terms ofutilizing every last bit of it
without compromise.
Um that's one that I'm reallyexcited about, but yeah, that's
uh that that's the in-personstuff.
(31:31):
I'm excited because I have Ijust bought a bunch of 3D
printers in my house, FDM ones,not the resin.
But we we have actual CT models.
I don't know if like you you'vebeen to a course and like the
models, like a generic one, andoh yeah, they squeak and they
fracture the noise itself justdrives me nuts.
But I wanted to also disruptthat segment because so like the
(31:55):
online stuff I think is verydisruptive in itself, but the
models, the actual education youget from that is is very
valuable.
SPEAKER_00 (32:03):
So it's an actual bone facsimile, like it's
actually similar to bone itself,is that what we're saying?
Because you're using the FDMresin for it.
SPEAKER_01 (32:09):
Yeah, the particular configuration that we have I've
tested and it feels and torqueslike bone, it's not, it doesn't
crack, and it's an actualpatient of mine.
So I have palatal approach, Ihave trans sinus, I have intra
sinus zygos, I have quad zygos,I have every scenario that you
can think of, and we're gonna dobe deploying those at each of
(32:30):
these because like the models weget from vendors, like they're
just they're so generic, youcan't really learn anything off
those things.
Yeah, um, yeah, that's anotheraspect to it.
Another thing that I'm reallyexcited about is we're gonna be
offering mentorship as well.
And then lastly, the what I cantalk about now is the vault.
(32:50):
What I've been doing a lot ofrecording point of view.
So I have a head camera that hasa point of view video, and so I
have a library on YouTube that Ikeep semi-private.
I can send you some of my my uhmy videos.
Yeah, uh, I only share like fivepercent of it, probably.
SPEAKER_00 (33:06):
Yeah, yeah.
It actually I gotta give creditto you.
So one of them was I think itwas like a 30-minute arch that
you did, and it was just anindentualist maxilla, and I
learned about how you flap anarch, right?
So the way you use a mold nineand how you it's hard for me to
actually say what it is, butwhen you see you're like, holy
shit, you can just use two handsand you can really muscle it
like that.
Yeah, but delicately, of course.
Yeah, that taught me a lot.
Like, I my arches are fasterbecause of that video.
(33:28):
So I wouldn't have to see yourvault.
This is like uh Prince's vaultof unreleased music that there's
just way more unreleased musicthan he ever actually released.
This is great.
SPEAKER_01 (33:37):
Yeah, absolutely, man.
I think we have all of our ownsurgical habits and the way we
do things in dentistry, but justseeing something a different way
and the sequence that he does itcan save you so much time and
headache.
So I have a pretty extensivelibrary, and the other guys, and
Esther, Juan, and Raj are doingthe same thing.
So we're gonna be having all ofthese videos in this vault for
(33:58):
people to look at differentscenarios, quads, revision of
quads, complications, basic alland four trans sinus, all that
stuff will be in the vault,which cool hasn't been done yet.
Yeah, they're brand new to theindustry.
But but yeah, that's what I cando disclose right now.
We have um we have a wait listfor the online right now because
(34:19):
it's not released yet.
We're still finishing and makingsure it's good.
So once it gets released, likeif you sign up for the wait
list, you'll get like firstnotification, probably a big
discount too, if you know you'reon the wait list versus buying
it later.
Of course.
Um, but yeah, we have besidesthat, we have some really,
really cool stuff coming.
I don't like getting into anindustry just to compete, like
(34:42):
disrupting.
Um and that's the intention hereis to really disrupt and because
there's so much uh educationthat is just like so I just want
this, I want there to be astandard, I want there to be
like one place, like a goldstandard, and that's what we're
striving for, is for people toreally nail these things and do
(35:04):
a great job, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (35:06):
Great.
So I guess in summary, so youjust talked about a lot of
things.
Is the Arch Ed concepteverything you just talked
about, how it weaves togetherall these courses, the vault,
all of that, or are they totallyseparate ventures?
SPEAKER_01 (35:17):
No, so everything that I just talked about is an
Arch Ed.
It's uh under that umbrella.
Um we are also gonna be doing, Ithink for a particular amount of
people for the online segment,having a we're like we'll mail
you models and the implants, andthen you can uh walk alongside
(35:38):
us doing it so you can get aboard for it.
SPEAKER_00 (35:41):
Oh, I love that.
Yeah, this is something I'm soglad you're doing this because
we live in an age where it's soeasy to get a custom bio model
for a patient to be using theselike generic models, like it's
just so unnecessary.
I have on my desk, this is myquad zygo patient that I did
like last month.
Yeah, and now whenever we'retraining doctors, or or not
training, but like wheneverwe're orienting doctors in one
of our offices, whenever theyhave their first case, like we
(36:02):
just go ahead and say, Hey,look, we're gonna segment this
out for you.
Go, this is your model for yourpatient, practice this, have it
already memorized in your head,be able to visualize that, and
then we'll do it in person.
It's just such a better way todo things.
And like we have the technology,like it's such an easy thing to
do now.
We have AI, like there's noexcuse not to not to be able to
simulate this.
So I love that you're doingthat.
I love that you're doing it withthose FDM bone resins.
I've heard great things aboutthem.
(36:23):
Don't, I don't have one myself,but man, that's fantastic.
I love that you're doing that.
And that's a great way to domentorship.
Yeah, for that case inparticular, I had Chris Barrett
come out.
He helped me with a case and heplanned it for me so I can kind
of get a visualization of it.
I printed it out, I did it atthe office, and then he came
over.
And the night before we're kindof reviewing it and how I
approached it.
And then when we did it, it waslike, I've already done it
before.
This is I've already seen this.
It's just it used to be gray,now it's white.
(36:43):
Yeah.
And uh that's the way to do it.
Like you you've already beenthere before.
And I I really believe invisualization and like being
able to walk through the surgeryand everything you're gonna do
mentally before you actually doit.
And things go so much smootherthat way.
And you're just not able to dothat if you have a generic
model.
I know we're talking a lot aboutmodels, but this is like a
really good point that you'vemade here, and I'm glad that
you're doing that.
SPEAKER_01 (37:02):
Yeah, absolutely.
If you think that's cool once werelease the next thing, if it's
cool with you, I'll hop back onand talk about that because this
is the next level.
SPEAKER_00 (37:14):
It's yeah, man.
This show, I just want to provhelp provide value to people.
I'm not here to sell anything.
I just I really want people tolearn more about what we do and
just get really freaking good atit.
And it sounds like what you'reputting together is exactly what
the full arch world needs interms of education.
It's something that's weavingtogether so many different
courses is doing it in acoherent and comprehensive way
to really create excellence forpeople and make sure the
(37:35):
patients are getting treatedright.
And I know we've both seen thewinter that we've all said is
coming.
Like it's been here for years.
We've been seeing it in ourclinics and uh and the way we
fix that is with knowledge andeducation and just being better
at it.
Gone are the days of just theweekend course where we just try
to crash people into doing casesand they go try and do it on
Monday, and it turns into anabsolute shit show.
And people are at the tail endof that.
And we have to think about theend user, and it all starts with
(37:56):
just making sure that we'reteaching people the right things
and saving people the lessonsthat we've had to learn the hard
way.
I think it's an amazing time tobe getting into full arch.
Yes, it's getting extremelypopular and it's getting more
saturated, but there's moreresources now than ever.
I think back to when I was likea D2 in dental school and I just
learned about and knew aboutdental implants, but I learned
about the power of them and thatI it was something I really
(38:16):
wanted to focus on.
And there were online courses.
There were like really expensiveCEs that you go to in person for
three days, and you'd be reallyexcited the first day, and then
the next day your eyes startglossing over.
Then by the third day, you'rejust trying to go home.
And then you're trying to go andyou're trying to do it in
practice.
And at the end of the day, likethere's just so many pitfalls
that you ran into that couldhave been prevented had your
education been a little bit morecomprehensive, intentional, had
(38:37):
there been mentorship attachedto that, and had there been some
of the things that you'retalking about right now.
So please, as you come out withthis, I'm more than happy to
help spread the word.
People are always coming to meabout where they should go for
education.
I always have many people, mostof the people have been on our
show have their own course, andI'll say, hey, you should go to
that course and learn from them.
But it sounds like what you'vedone is gonna weave together a
lot of the best people doingthis.
And it's just gonna make it asimple way to say, hey, look, go
(38:59):
do our chat.
Just go through that.
And once I know that you've gonethrough that and you've done the
online stuff, you've done thein-person, you've done some live
surgeries, like I I have apretty good idea of how
competent you are.
So please, yeah, let's do that.
You're more than welcome to comeback on the show and I'm happy
to help spread the word.
SPEAKER_01 (39:12):
Yeah, sounds good, man.
You know, when it comes down toit, I think I'm blessed to have
a really cool network of reallytalented people and just
bringing everybody together toto share that the information
that they are really good at.
That's the name of the game.
Um and yeah, I I think anybodythat signs up will be uh blown
away with the amount of theamount of confidence they come
(39:32):
out with.
A lot of lot of really goodcourses out there.
And at the same time, like thisis asynchronous, you can do it
on your couch, you can rewind,which is a big deal, and then at
the same time, you can askquestions too and join a really
great community.
I think this is going to be ahuge hit, not only in the US,
but also internationally,because anybody on the internet
can get it.
And yeah, just hoping thatthere's less or there's better
(39:54):
work that comes out when otherpatients come to our offices.
We look at an x-ray of randompatients that has an arch and
we're like, damn, they did anice job.
Yeah, yeah, that's that's a goodfeeling.
I don't really see I I that'swhat I want to see is in the
future is like really awesomecases from other people.
SPEAKER_00 (40:11):
Yeah, it's a good feeling just seeing excellent
work.
And I I think about so many ofthe courses that I've gone to,
and it's borderlinedisrespectful, but whenever I'm
in a course and I'm like reallyengaged in it, like I'm on my
phone the entire time becauseI'm I just have a notes page,
like I have an outline, and I'mliterally just trying to get
every piece of information downbecause so often like you don't
get the slides at the end, youdon't really capture the certain
things that were said, and it'slike you're left with maybe
(40:33):
retaining from dental school,you might remember five percent
of the shit you're taught,frankly.
Same thing happens in CE, andthen trying to remember this
stuff, and I would go back tocourses multiple times because I
just couldn't remember certainthings.
And so I I think thatdemocratizing that, having it
online, having it something youcan literally just pop in your
office and review before you gointo your case, it's a beautiful
thing.
It should be that way.
And I think that you're thinkingabundantly about this.
(40:54):
And the more we do that, and themore we share, and the more we
try to make each other better,the better off we're gonna be.
I think the worst thing you cando is just get in this mindset
that, oh, I know full arch andonly I know full arch, and I'm
not trying to share this.
And, you know, that reallystifles you because there's so
many things that you can learnfrom other people.
And by sharing that with others,they hold you accountable to
making yourself better,incorporating new things, and
(41:14):
and just doing better work.
And that's just that's I thinkthat's the long game.
That's the only way you can.
This is for a long time, it'sjust by getting better and doing
better care.
Because when you're just doingeverything real quick and fast
and you're not learning fromothers, those cases come back a
lot sooner.
And uh, this doesn't this reallyisn't as fun when that starts
happening.
I love what you're doing, Simon,and I look forward to everything
that you've been able todisclose and all the things that
you can't disclose.
(41:34):
And I hope that when you'reready to disclose that we can be
an outlet for that.
SPEAKER_01 (41:37):
Yeah, clearly.
We'll hop back on here.
Yeah, really excited about thenext 12 months.
Cool.
Arched, orca, the those twothings, I think, and smart maps
technologies with with Sven.
I'm not a technical contributor,those guys are way too smart.
Like I don't add much valueother than business advice.
Right.
But yeah, those those guys, whatwe're what we're getting ready
(42:01):
to release is uh like coming outof left field and just making
people think to themselves,like, I didn't know you could do
that, or like, man, like thatthat's such a good idea.
Like those kind of those kind ofthings, the engineers over there
are top notch and as in a leagueof his own.
SPEAKER_00 (42:17):
Yeah, I mean that that's what full arch has been
for me.
Like I've been in the game for alittle while now, and the way
that full arch is being donetoday is almost completely
foreign to the way it was when Ifirst got out.
Oh, totally.
Yeah, it's every few months Isee someone doing something that
I'm like, I didn't even knowthat was legal.
I didn't know that I didn't knowthat that was within the
boundaries of what we could do.
(42:39):
And then you start doing it andyou realize, oh man, I should
have been doing this the wholetime.
Right.
Inundation is what's driving usforward.
And it's just a fast, it's sucha fast developing segment of
dentistry that's incorporatingnew technology, it's
incorporating AI, it'sincorporating new surgical
techniques all the time.
And if you don't have your earto the ground, you're gonna be
behind so fast.
And uh, and that's why it's soimportant to keep educating
(42:59):
yourself and staying on top ofit and going deep with it.
I do believe that if you'regonna do full arch, do full arch
and do it for real.
Don't just dabble in it, don'tdip your toes because you'll get
burned.
So, yeah, man, I'm super excitedfor the next 12 months as well.
Super excited to see you inperson at Orca and everyone else
that's gonna be in attendance.
I'm sure it's gonna be a ton ofpeople and hopefully there'll be
some fixed fans as well.
SPEAKER_01 (43:16):
Yeah, absolutely, man.
No, really excited for the next12 months, man.
And yeah, great to be on here asalways, man.
It's always a good time.
SPEAKER_00 (43:23):
All right, Doc.
All right.
So next time, thank you so much.
Thanks, bro.
See ya.
See ya.
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