Transforming Challenges into Success with Dr. Justin Moody: Part 2

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
My name is Dr Tyler Tolbert and I'm Dr Soren Poppy
and you're listening to theFixed Podcast, your source for
all things.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Implant dentistry I'll tell you that whenever
anybody mentions like hey,what's the first, what's the
course that you'd recommendgoing to for implants, I mean we
recommend it, but everybodyrecommends it.
It's like, hey, pathway,pathway, you can get to fast
track.
Like that is the the place togo if you want to like start

(00:29):
placing implants.
So you guys have done such anexcellent job with not only
marketing yourself in that spacebut also creating that
environment where, when peoplego, you know they have a good
time, doesn't matter what theirbackground was.
They feel like they uh, youknow, learn a lot from it and
they don't feel judged by.
I feel like you go to a lot offull arch courses and the first

(00:50):
thing they ask is how manyarches do you do currently, or
how many implants do you place,and it turns into this hierarchy
type of thing.
But the reality is people arecoming to Pathway because they
probably don't have a ton ofsurgical experience.
Or, if they do have a goodamount of surgical experience,
they're just looking for a good,solid basic education on

(01:12):
placing implants because theywant to provide that to their
patients.
They want to provide a solutionthat the patient doesn't need
to get that bridge and, you know, prep two virgin teeth that
probably will last for a reallylong time or whatever it is.
But I feel like so manydentists, especially in rural
environments, they just don'thave anything like that near

(01:33):
them.
So it's really cool that you'reable to to create that.
And, um, you know, tyler wentand he, he got all aboard
implants and I know I kind oftrailed on Tyler's tails and got
into the implants as well.
So I mean I'll I'll say thatthat probably is what got us
initially into this space aswell.
So we, we really appreciatethat and we have had, um, you

(01:56):
know, we, I've been, I talked toChris a lot, um, and I love
Chris and I think he's a he's agreat clinician, um, and he told
me all about how he was inDenver here working under the
doctor here, and then, you know,made his way to your office and
really got to dive in, becauseI think when he was here he was
doing a lot of restorations, alot of like occlusal, like

(02:18):
making sure everything Prost,yeah, a lot of prost stuff, and
then he wanted to get into thesurgical part.
So he found you there and Ithink that, um, that was a great
opportunity for him and nowhe's.
You know, we we talk about himon our podcast.
He's like one of the guys Ilook up to for a lot of the
remote anchorage stuff.
Um, you know, like him holtzclaw.
A lot of those guys when you'rewhen you're trying to fix

(02:39):
someone who comes into youroffice who has maybe been
through the ringer already andthey've got zero bone left.
Like those are the guys thatthat I look towards for for
figuring out the solution tothat case.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
The last stop um.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
So you're right.
You know the people around youare what are what?
Uh, you're the best for thepeople around you, and chris is
great, and you know we had aopportunity to work with vorholt
for a couple months too.
He's been.
He's been great to us and avery good clinician as well.
So I think that you know youdid a great job with

(03:14):
establishing people in ourindustry that were looking for
that next step in implantdentistry, and now we have such
a great um, a great opportunityto learn implant dentistry at
pathway, so we really appreciatethat well, I, I appreciate that
you know, but those things, um,you know, those things mean the

(03:36):
world to me because, uh, likeyou know, I couldn't be, I
couldn't be any more proud ofyou.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
you know, like a Chris Barrett, like you, like I
remember I remember him placinghis very first implant in, uh,
uh, you know, in in pathwaybecause you know he came out of,
uh, uh, a a high end cosmeticpractice in Cherry Creek.
Like, like, like, yeah, likeshe left a practice that

(04:02):
hundreds of dentists would justbe thrown into the mouth to be
at that kind of high-endpractice and it wasn't
fulfilling to him and to see himnot just take advantage, seeing
Chris place his first implantto have a conversation about,

(04:25):
like he's like, man, I think I'mgonna, I think I'm gonna go
learn how to do like the zygosand terry's, and I'm just like
like go go do it, tell me how itis, because, like I'm I'm not
100 sure I'm about interested init.
I said, but uh, in, like hecame back and like it was like
through another long fire, right, like it was getting him up,

(04:46):
and like going in the day andhe's the most level, he's the
most even keeled human on theplanet Like he's unrattled.
You can't rattle him and youknow I love those stories.
You know, and I think about thepeople that you know have, you
know, just blossomed you know inthat you know of.
You know just blossomed youknow in that you know, on the

(05:06):
mentor side, uh, you know from,uh, josh mcgow, and, of course,
uh, you know, uh, way, uh, way,you know, when it came in, um,
and you know all the, you knowall the people.
And then there's, uh, I don'tknow if you guys, you, you guys,
know who Tommy Graff is.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
Yeah, so you know, one of the docs who took the
course this week was referred,you know came because you know
Tommy told him he should come.
And I always tell people like Iruined Tommy harder and faster
than anyone else on the planetbecause, like he took Pathway
and then like like three monthslater he took uh, chris and

(05:48):
raj's uh, uh all on x course.
And then like three monthsafter that he called me one day
and he was just like he made meI get this crazy idea to run by
you.
And I was like, yeah, what'sthat?
And he goes yeah, I think I'mgonna fire my hygienist and
everyone in the office and turnmy office into an implant only
cell.
I remember I'm gonna fire myhygienist and everyone in the
office and turn my office intoan implant only.

Speaker 1 (06:06):
So I remember I remember when he did this and I
was like tainted, oh shit.

Speaker 3 (06:12):
But then I was like.
You know what I did the samething, yeah, you know, like I
left, you know it wasn't for anarc center, but it was for all
implants, and I was just likeyou know, I left this, I left
that private practice outbecause I didn't want to do it
and I but I wanted to be happy,you know, and I wanted to do
things that fulfilled me.
And uh, look at him now he'sgot chase with him and like,
like you know, and uh, all the,you know all the things and uh,

(06:36):
and he's and you can see it inand suffered and I, you know, I,
I can't, I can't mention themall because they're like they
the list is long but like it's,it's what's, um, really, it's
what makes me get up every dayand love to go down to the
center.
And uh, now we've got this big,beautiful facility and like all

(06:58):
this other stuff from uh, butit's it, it has nothing.
You, it's funny because peopleare like, oh my God, you got
this like beautiful facility andall these 32 operatories and
all these things.
But you know, I'll tell themlike it's only as good as the
humans that walked in that door.
You know that building doesn'tdo anything.
The building and the equipmentand stuff.

(07:19):
They don't do anything forteaching and getting people to
do things.
Like it's all about the peoplethat come there.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
You know, I think something that impresses me the
most about Pathway is, you know,as it's grown, it's remained
and almost become more nimbleover time in terms of as new
techniques become more, you know, proliferated into the general
consciousness like remoteanchorage and things and new
technologies, pathway has acourse on it almost right away
and you guys are able to offerso many different courses for

(07:49):
whatever people, whateverexperience level.
People are coming in with whatthey're trying to get to and I
think a lot of that speaks tothe mentors that you guys have
in your atmospheres.
You know, as they continue topush boundaries, you know you
guys are democratizing that intocourses and bringing people
into it and the, you know,obviously in a safe and
controlled environment.
And you know, a lot of times asorganizations grow, it's even
harder for them to innovate,it's harder for them to increase

(08:12):
their offerings and create thatfor people, and you guys have
managed to do that justwonderfully.

Speaker 3 (08:18):
You know I appreciate that because I I find those
courses.
You know, like I told you, Ieven gave up the teaching, being
the lead instructor for thesinus course.
Andrew Prury, out of Atlanta,is teaching at Warino and I do

(08:38):
that because, like the mentorsthat come and give of themselves
, you know they're doing this ona day-to-day basis and you know
I think about some of therecent courses that we've.
You know that we've added to.
You know, obviously, um, youknow I.
You know dan holds claw and his, uh, you know, remote anchorage
, like yo today to we got heonly does uh, um, he only does

(09:05):
four docs at a time after thelive surgery thing.
It's a small lot and yesterdayhe did a demo quad zygote with
an incisal canal.
Today, I think, doc Leland dida quad zygote with some
transnasals.
It's crazy, but you knowthere's a call for that and you

(09:31):
know I think that being nimbleto, you know, create that next
step is like it's okay to go outof country and do those cases
and we know why people go out ofcountry and do those cases and
and and we know why people goout of country.
But like, for me, like I thinkyou can serve more people being
here and we can serve thedentist better, because those

(09:54):
those procedures like they gottabe taught to treat a plan and
and and provide the care and thefollowup and stuff, and to the
standards at which we would beheld.
It's got to be as close to yoursimulation of your own
practices as possible and you'rejust not going to get that, I

(10:15):
think, outside of the US.
But I also think that that isone of the there's two courses
that I think are the mostimportant new additions to the
course, and the one is theremote anchorage because, as
Clear Choice and everyone outthere has been, eating up arches

(10:37):
and mowing down bone andcreating FP3s and stuff.
As we've done this, there's atsunami of complications coming.
There's a tsunami of failedarches and this has nothing to
do with bad dentistry.

(10:58):
This has everything to do withtime and I'll tell you, arches
that were done 10 years ago areon implants that are nowhere
near the technology that we havetoday, on techniques that had
yet been refined.
Yet we did them at a high level, and the issues that I have

(11:25):
with that um is that the damncourts and people judge us today
, yeah, by what we did 10 yearsago and it's not right because
the technology and thetechniques and the and the and
the reps have increased overthis amount of time and you

(11:48):
can't not solve for that right.
So there's a need for remoteacreage because, as implant
dentistry at full arches age andfail some of these people,
that's the only place you'regoing to go.
That's the only solution theyhave at that point is to be able

(12:10):
to go to those.
So that is one of the reasons.
The other one that I'm reallypassionate about is the FP1
course that Josh and Wade aredoing, because what you talk
about just what we did is weneed to really learn about these
.
You know how to deal withyounger people that have bone

(12:33):
and you know if you're gettingthis done in your 20s, 30s and
40s, like you're going to need arevision in the sick in in your
50s or 60s, and you know,without a doubt, like like you
know, probably everybody, butlike there's a good piece that
are going to be there, and thenwhat?
then?
What happens when, when therevision needs to go, well, then
the next step is, uh uh, remote, engage the.

(12:56):
The next step is remote, engage.
Yeah, you know, and this isthis, this lies in line.
But the but the, the fp1 is ais a is a stepping stone and a
and a bow.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
I call it a bone holder for those humans that
don't need to have an arch modedown, and I, and I feel, I, I
really I'm super passionateabout like the that being
treated the way you know, theway it is I got a couple uh
comments on on what you said andand one of them the first one

(13:27):
is talking about the courts andlike how, how they're seeing
cases that you know maybe weredone 20 years ago when we didn't
have the technology that we donow.
And I get I get frustratedabout this too, because you know
my thought like kind of whatwhat I compare it to is, but you
, years ago, almost every andcorrect me if I'm wrong but a

(13:50):
lot of patients that were goingthrough ortho got all their
premolars out and took out allthe premolars the first pres and
then did ortho, and now wedon't need that anymore.
But if they went back andostracized every single
orthodontist that did that then,because that's the technology
they had at the time, you knowthere'd be so many orthodontists

(14:12):
that be sitting in courtbecause they were taking out
virgin teeth that maybe didn'tneed to be taken out.
And I would say the same thing.
You know at the time we didn'thave photogrammetry, we didn't
have all the solutions that wedo now, but the dentists were
just doing the best that theycould with what they had and
trying to please the patient, togive them a remote anchorage
solution, and maybe they didn'tknow about root banking and

(14:36):
socket shielding and FP1s andall this stuff that have come
out in the last five years.
Sure, um, there's.
It probably would have been abetter treatment option to give
a 28 year old like a nice fp1with all these solutions, but at
the time that technology wasn'tout and the only thing that
they had was was an fp3prosthetic and it was either

(14:57):
that or a denture, and you knowdamn well that if they put them
in a denture, there's eitherthat or a denture, and that they
do now getting them you know,and I hope that, as some of
these you know, if, if more andmore of these cases kind of come
to court, that that becomesthat.
People kind of mention that,because my opinion is putting
somebody in a denture too, likeyou're.

(15:18):
Just they're going to eat awaybone over time.
No different than putting inimplants.
Let it happen naturally orartificially, right exactly and
you can't ostracize somebody fordoing the best they could with
the technology that they had atthe time that those implants
were placed um.
So that's my opinion on thatwell, your opinion is not wrong.

Speaker 3 (15:40):
Uh, and the you know that, the you.
We live in a world where youcan sue anyone for anything,
which is like whatever you know.
But we need to.
And you know I was me and mygeneration were guilty of when
for implants, like you know,literally 27 years ago when I

(16:02):
started doing this, like nobodyreally believed in them there.
You didn't have long trackrecords, didn't have long
studies on them.
You know things like that.
They were just starting to getyou know kind of mainstream at
the school.
No, school was teaching it whenI was going through there and,
um it, we contributed because wesold implants as like, hey,

(16:25):
like there's no nerve, there'sno need for root canals, you're
not going to rot, the teetharen't going to rot, you know,
but we didn't.
I mean, I remember, you know,when I left MISH, you know like
I, I was placed in the BioRisinsquare threaded parallel wall
external hex implant which, like, no, like, no one places today,
but that was according to theliterature and what we had, like

(16:46):
that was the best implant thatwe had.
Yeah, you know, in it, yeah, itloses bone down to the first
dread, but the time it does stop, you know.
But lately, like, we sold thisas being a better than we sold
it as a being a super treatmentwhen it was just a treatment and
, uh, you know it's better thanthe average, you know it's

(17:07):
better than a bridge or adenture, but like, it's not
forever and and we, we cycledthrough that and now we're
seeing it on the back side.
These people, you know, they,you know they're paying 40, 50
000 for a new arch and they andthey have a, they, they have
some implant loss or they have aprosthetic loss and they're

(17:27):
like mad, you know, and theythink that this should have, you
know, survived forever.
And the reality is that, forone, I think dentistry, I think
dentists, don't teach enough,don't take enough.

(17:51):
That I don't.
I don't think that we honor howa patient loses their teeth
enough, and what I mean by thatis like when they, when they
come to you needing a full arch,they've already.
They're already speaking to youin an unwritten language that
they're not.
They don't have a track recordof keeping, of taking their
teeth, whether it is their lovefor crystal bath or perio, which

(18:13):
are two separate problems inthemselves.
One leaves you with bone andone leaves you with no bone.
But the reality of that is thatit's different dentistry than
single-tooth dentistry, becauseyou can take great care of your
teeth and break a tooth and haveto have an implant and those of

(18:33):
us that are in the arch worldnot all of these patients are
going to be just because theycan afford to fix them doesn't
mean they're going to take careof them.
It doesn't mean they're going todo any of the things that we
ask them to do.
They're going to take care ofit.
It doesn't mean they're goingto do any of the things that we
ask them to do.
And when we take that intoconsideration, we've got to
understand that a certainpopulation of those patients,

(18:54):
we're going to have some boneloss, we're going to have
perioplantitis and ultimatelywe're going to have radishes and
things because they're just notgoing to do.
And we also don't take intoaccount enough, I think, that
the uh, the, the patients, um,sometimes are not good hosts.
You know, the older they get,the, the the worst we heal like
like there's, there's, there's,there's lots of things there

(19:16):
along the way.
So health issues, diabetics, youknow, maybe, yeah, yeah, all
the for sure you know like, uh,I like I tell this story and I
don't mind.
Like you know, we talk abouthealth histories, you know, and
you mentioned diabetes.

(19:36):
Well, like it's fine, but likeso many people in America don't
even know they're diabetic andthey don't check the box.
You know, Like you can be whatI think to look fairly healthy
and be a raging diabetic and uhand and fool everybody because,
you know, as dentists, like we,really, I mean I love the health

(20:00):
history with all new answers.
I mean it's a, you know, Idon't have to think about it,
right.
But now I think more about thatbecause I was like, okay, I'm
going to correlate, like okay,this person's in their fifties.
They put all no answers down.
I'm guaranteeing, or I'mthinking about the patient.
Maybe they've never even beento the physician, so their no

(20:21):
answers are truthful to them,but not necessarily the reality.
And I'm going to give you acase in point in that, in
January of 23, when I went tothe Mayo for my executive health
that I go to every year, myhemolybin A1C was 9.7.
But you know what, I got up andwent to work every day and I

(20:44):
didn't think I felt bad.
And today, coming up on twoyears.
I've got a continuous glucosemonitor on my arm and in January
of 24, I had it down to 7.6.
And then in July of 24, I wasat 6.7.

(21:05):
And then Monday was mythree-month check and I'm at 6.7
.
And then Monday was my threemonth check and I'm at 6.6.
That's great, and you know so.
Uh, and I I say this because Ididn't have any of the other
symptoms Like I, you know, likeI, I didn't get up in the middle
of the night pee.
You know, like I, I I brushed myteeth every day so they weren't
bleeding.
You know, like made, I, Ibrushed my teeth every day so

(21:25):
they weren't bleeding.
You know, like, all thesethings right, but like I was, I
was headed the wrong direction,you know.
So, like you know, I lost 37pounds and I did all this stuff.
And, and my point of that is,it's like, like so many of our
patients don't know, yeah,because they don't know.
And it is so important toimplant dentistry is to
understand that because as weget into the arches, we're

(21:46):
dealing with older people Likewe're.
Yeah, we get some of thoseyoung ones we were talking about
FD1s and things but the vastmajority of the patients that we
we see.
I don't know what do you guysthink?
They're over 50, probably right?
Oh yeah, Yep, I would say, yeah, I would say.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
You know we do arches in patients less than 50, but a
majority of my patients, Iwould say, are 50 plus for sure
and, and I agree, you know itjust is part of our population,
the population that's coming inthat need all their teeth
removed.
Typically, the reason that theyneed all their teeth removed is
because they haven't gone tothe dentist probably as much.

(22:23):
I mean, there's a lot ofreasons, right, but one of the
reasons is maybe they haven'tgone to the dentist as much as
they should have.
So I think you're spot on inthe fact that you know it's
probably good to if they're notgoing to the dentist as much as
they should have maybe they are.
They also aren't going to theirphysician as much as they
should have.
So when that patient comes backand they have a couple of failed
implants, it's probably, youknow, good to get a blood panel,

(22:48):
make sure they go in and seetheir PCP and and um, ensure
that they're healthy.
And those are the reasons whyyou can probably figure out the
reason those implants fail.
Um, but it is, I mean, and Ithink that it's, it's difficult,
right as a, as a provider too,because you have a patient
that's coming in looking for asolution and they you know,
maybe they're they've got a tonof infections going on and you

(23:10):
want to provide that solution tothem and the best one you can
offer is something, somethingfixed.
But if they go through thewhole, their whole physician
care, that it might be sixmonths down the line before they
can get that done.
So it's tough, right, right,like it's like okay, do we fix
the teeth first or do we fix youknow, I that's actually.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
it brings up something interesting.
I was at a.
I was at the ICOI.
We were both at the ICOIrecently and a doc that was a
fan of the show had come up tome and he talked about how, on
one of his patients, they hadsome undiagnosed condition and
he'd done a full arch on themand all of them had failed.
And now he's like well, now I doa blood panel on all my
patients.
And I'm like that's great.
And he was like are you notdoing that?
And I'm like well, no, I'm not,even though in theory that

(23:52):
sounds like a great idea and I'msure that over time I would
reduce failures and things likethat.
I've got a lot of patients thatif I tell them that they we got
to make sure all this is going,they're, they're never coming
back to me, you know.
And and it's not just aboutkeeping the business going, it's
about, like, you know, thispatient needs some sort of

(24:13):
intervention and most of thetime, um, you know that blood
panel could come in handy, butmost of the time these things do
go well.
So it's this question of like,do I want to take every single
precaution possible to catch allof those things, um, is that
going to now become a barrier totreatment for people?
I really don't have a greatanswer for that, but it brings
up an interesting question.

Speaker 3 (24:30):
You know, I think I actually think the answer lies
somewhere in between, and here'swhy I think that is.
I think that I think what wecould do, I agree with you, like
you have every patient thatwalked in the door that needed a
full arch and you said, hey,listen, you've got to get over
to your PCP and get a physicalexam and a blood panel and stuff

(24:55):
.
Yeah, we'll do far less of them.
Would it make healthiercandidates to have the data and
stuff?
Yes, for sure.
But I think that there's thingsthat we can do.
I think there's things we coulddo and I think it's because I
think it's how we become abetter detective and I think
it's like.
I think it's like going throughthe health history and being

(25:18):
more jock houston.
Right, like like asking morequestions about as we get
through there.
You know, this is like hey,like you know, tell me, you know
, tell me about what last timeit went to this issue.
Oh, asking more questions aboutas we get through there, it's
just like, hey, tell me aboutwhen.
Last time it was a physician, Idon't know how we have it now.
Tell me about how you feel.
Have you ever had your bloodpressure checked?
Because we just took it andit's a little bit high.

(25:38):
I want to know if that'saverage or just nervous.
Does your tear hurt?
Someone asked me how do you knowif they're titanium out?
They're sensitive to titanium,and I was like, oh, you know you
can do the Melissa assay testand that it's the same thing.

(25:58):
If I set every single personfor an implant for Melissa test
A, it's expensive and B, I'mgoing to lose most of those
implants because they're notgoing to go.
But what about deep diving foran implant for melissa test a,
it's expensive and be able tolose most of those implants
because you're not going to go?
But what about?
What about deep diving?
Like, hey, you know, I was likethey see that you had your knee
and your hip replaced.
Yeah, well, like how, how youknow, how'd you heal right?

(26:20):
Like, like, how'd that?
How'd that go?
Oh man, like we had no problems.
I was up on it and I said, well,how old are they?
Well, they're five or six yearsold.
You had any issues?
No, no, like I have it.
We can listen.
You just got a small snapshotof the patient's got titanium
sensitive?
No way.
But what if the patient saysyou know, I've had my hip rigged

(26:42):
down a couple times.
I'm probably going to have tohave it down to my knee.
Listen, that might be your clue, right?
That's your breadcrumb.
To wait a minute.
They're not taking to thisprosthesis.
Well, they've had multipleproblems, which is not uncommon.

(27:07):
And if they have, who's to sayit's not the middle?
And all I'm saying is maybethat's worth the deep dive and
maybe that's worth the assaytest to do it.
So when we talk about a fullcount panel, maybe we do do that
on the, on the, the, the humanthat is 50 plus, that's never

(27:31):
been to the physician and has,you know, numerous lesions and
things like that.
Like, maybe you know, and, andmaybe that patient's think about
this, maybe that patient Ialways tell people, man, I like
to watch my patients a littlebit in the waiting room and I
like to watch them walk to theiroperatory, because it tells you

(27:53):
a little bit about them.
Right, like, can they hop rightup and can they walk down the
hallway?
Or are they winded when theyget there?
Right, did it flush them?
Right?
Like, look at their arms, like,do their arms have bruises on
them?
And like, like, there's littlethings that we forget are clues

(28:14):
to a patient's overall healththat may lead us to that.
You know what I think.
This one like that, like beforewe spend fifty thousand dollars
and and I I've done this and Ipreference it with you know Doc,
or you know patient, mr Jones,have you bought a $50,000 car

(28:36):
before?
Well, today, I mean, that'sactually kind of an average
price.
Yeah so like if you bought a,tell me, like if you bought a
fifty thousand dollar car, likeyou're gonna kick the tires and
and and take it for a test driveand and you know, look around,

(28:57):
and that you know.
Um, mr jones, I did.
I think we need to do the samething with here because you know
, before I and before we spent50 grand, like, like, we need to
do the same thing with here,because before we spent 50 grand
, we need to put it up on thehoist and take a look at the
drive tree and take a look atthe tires and make sure that
what you're paying for will getyou down the road a ways.

(29:20):
And I always like car analogies.
The reason I like car analogiesis everyone has one and the
assumption of owning a car isthat, yeah, you're going to need
to change the oil and changethe tires periodically.
Like, they're not maintenancefree.
The Tesla makes it a littleless maintenance but, like you

(29:40):
know, they're generallymaintenance free.
You know they're not maintenancefree, so they're not
maintenance-free.
So the analogy works.
It's the same thing I do withpeople.
You know, one of the things Ido with my full-arch patients is
I'm like, listen, if you're notcommitted to spending $1,000 a

(30:02):
year with me for the rest ofyour life, I'm not committed to
doing your work.
They're like what do you mean?
I was like you mean.
I was like like you, gotta,it's like your car, like would
you buy a fifty thousand dollarcar and then be like you're
gonna end up with another dimeat the same thing?
You know I'm gonna.
I'm gonna run it till thewheels fall off and the oil.
You know the oil's empty andthe radiator's empty and the
answer is no, but yet you notcoming in for your maintenance

(30:25):
is no different than it.
There's zero difference betweenthat and running your car out
of oil.
And they get it because thatanalogy works for almost every
human on the planet.
So, uh, I don't know if thatmade any sense.
You know I absolutely didn't.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
I actually love that analogy.
I'm definitely going to usethat because you're right, when
you, when a patient comes in andthey look a little bit, you can
tell like they look a littlelike they, they probably should
see their doctor.
And I think a great way to letthem know that without them just
going across the street to theother, the next provider,
that'll just do it for them.

(31:02):
You just let them know, like,hey, listen, you're spending a
lot of money.
This is a big investment foryou.
If you're going to spend thisamount of money, we want to make
sure it works and I don't wantyou to have to do this twice.
So, in order to do that, like,let's at least get a checkup for
you.
And a good way to put it to them, to make them understand, is
probably something like thatwhat's another big investment

(31:25):
you made?
How did you prep yourself forthat investment before doing it,
to make sure it was a goodinvestment?
And let's do the same thing foryou here.
And I think that by tellingthem that you're not doing it
because you're trying to be astickler or anything like that.
You just do it because you care, because you don't want them to
lose more money in the future.
That'll go a really long wayfor those patients because you

(31:48):
know they probably don't haveenough money to get it twice.
So let's make sure that theydon't have to right.
Or let's make sure they don'tgo through eight months of
implants before doing all thatstuff and then having to do it
again because that's a year oftheir life right wow, yeah it, I
.

Speaker 3 (32:06):
And in your you know those things are, so I think
those things are so accuratebecause, uh, um, I always use a
line, you know, I use a line allmy patients that I, that I
truly do believe in, and that is, you know, when I'm when I'm
talking to the patients about.
You know, whatever it is,whether I really need them to do
a I don't know a chem, dental,or I want them to consider this

(32:32):
treatment, I will tell them andsay, listen, I would never do
anything to you that I wouldn'twant done to myself.
My commitment to you is like Iwill never provide a treatment
for you that I would not havedone to myself in that situation
and in this situation, knowingwhat I know, I need more

(32:54):
information and that's for youknow.
That's for you to get a quality, a quality product that that
can have some kind ofresemblance of a function of
longevity.
And listen, their answer alsospeaks volumes to whether you
should either be working on themto begin with.
If they don't see that andhonor that, that's probably not

(33:17):
someone that you should work onto begin with.
Right?

Speaker 2 (33:22):
yeah, I agreed 100 um .
So I this is something that Iwant to bring up.
Earlier, when you were talkingabout, about providers that have
come through pathway thatyou've seen excel greatly, um,
you talked about graph andbarrett and um pilling and some
of these guys, uh, you know, I'mjust curious what you're like,
what, what are your thoughts onwhat make a good implant surgeon

(33:44):
?
Like what makes a good a surgeonyour eyes?
Because you know, I have a lotof colleagues that are I'm
friends with, I do generaldentistry and they just they, um
, they maybe want to get intosurgery but they're they're not
super comfortable with it andyou know, sometimes I tell them
like hey, listen, um, or, or youknow, at the other end of the

(34:05):
spectrum is they really wantedto get into full arch and they
feel comfortable with it, butthey also have a lot of anxiety
about little procedures and I,at least my opinion, is, I think
it's important to, especiallywhen you're getting into full
arch, to kind of be able tomanage some of those problems,
because there are going to beissues that come up when you're

(34:27):
in surgery.
And I'm just curious, like whatyour thoughts are are on, like
what makes a good provider thatcan do these big surgical
procedures well you know, um,there are.

Speaker 3 (34:42):
You know, we've trained a lot of doctors through
here and uh, I have I've seendocs come through here that are
in that kind of like I want todo more surgery because I don't
really know how.
And you know, they take out abunch of teeth here and
sometimes the light bulb flicksand there's like shit.
I just needed to be taught howto luxate teeth and how to take

(35:04):
things out without breakingbottle plates.
And you know, sut, suture, likesuturing, suturing sometimes is
the barrier of entry to peoplebecause they just like, like you
don't get it in dental school,right, yeah.
And then you also see, and thensome of them, some of them
contribute, some of them, youknow they, they, they thrive in
it.
And then some will be like, yeah, we've had people, you know we
have a high 90% success rate,that you know that goes and

(35:28):
places implants, you know, whenthey get old.
But, like you know, there aredocs that, um, there's docs that
didn't love it, you know, and,uh, they, they go back home, but
you know what, you know whatthey did, what they will tell
you, uh, and some of them arestill great friends of mine and

(35:48):
they'll tell you, like you knowwhat.
What I learned was I learnedhow to be a better referring doc
to my specialists.
Like I learned that, instead ofwriting off my script to my
surgeon or my periodontist, youknow, put an implant at cheek
number 30, you know, I learnedfrom you that, like that, like,
hey, listen, like like I, I'dlike you, I'd like to play, I'd
like you to use a bioreis andimplant and I'd like to, I'd

(36:11):
like to have it sized where wehave a, you know, at least a
millimeter and a half of buckleplates, uh, on the crest of the
bones, and I need the implant tobe centered, mesial, distally,
parallel to the contact points,because the final restoration is
a scurritate and and I was like, I kind of took me back for a
minute and I was just like, yeah, right, like like you'll get

(36:39):
better product back by beingeducated and be able to ask for
what you want, instead of justbeing like, hey, you know, you
know, you just put two.
You know, put, you know, replace30 with an implant.
Well, like, you know, like, soit's off.
And then you go to the surgeonand just say, well, it was
better because of the bone on ityou can take some out of the
hip Like it takes them off thehook.
But what I think is the profileof it is, I think, someone

(37:02):
that's looking to be challengedmore of their career and I think
that that I think surgery isthat a little mystical, you know
, for the dental student, youknow, like every school is
different.
Like some get it a lot of it.
And then you know, like schoolsthat don't have surgery

(37:23):
residencies get the the docs getto do more of them in undergrad
.
Yeah, absolutely, schools thathave an oral surgery program in
the in the building don't get todo very many.
Yep, you know, they get, theyget and they get the insane way
and though, and mary, and allthe you know all the, all the
other things.
So I think, but I think surgerybecomes a little mystical and

(37:47):
the only way to get better at itis through reps, and I think
that the profile of theimplantologist is that of I need
to be challenged mentally andphysically, uh, to treat the,

(38:11):
the, the patients, and fillingsand crowns are doing that for me
.
Um, does that make sense to youguys?
Like I, I I it's interesting youbring that up because I thought
about that, that, that thatprofile, and that's the best way
I could describe it.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
Yeah, I think.
Well, I think it's.
It's kind of goes back to whenyou were talking about Barrett
earlier, when he first told youhe wanted to go and do Terry's
and Zygo's and then all of asudden he was just jazzed like
that, just gave him energy andhe just went after it.
And it's always that kind ofnext challenge and I think Soren
and I have talked about thisbefore cause a lot of our
training has been just like youknow, we we kind of been in the
same cadence and advancingourselves, um, and gone to all

(38:48):
the same courses is, you know,we're always saying, okay, well,
you know, once I'm competentwith doing this, I think that's
probably where I'm going to kindof like stop, like that's going
to be like that, this is what Ido, this is my box comfortable.
And as these things become morepedestrian, we kind of start
asking ourselves, well, what ifwe just did like one or two

(39:10):
cases?
Or what if we just went to thiscourse and then, before we know
it, like that's giving usenergy and we're and we're
chasing after that and I think Ithink what you just identified
is spot on.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
Yeah, yeah, it's the.
It's the progression of thehuman right.
And like are you, you know?
Is dentistry your passion?
What I do know I don't knowanyone that gets into implant
dentistry that dentistry's nottheir passion.
I know plenty of dentists thatjust do crowns and fillings and
hygiene checks and dentistry'snot their passion, and I.

(39:45):
There's a good delineator there.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
I think one of my and this is kind of on topic, but
one of my core memories of kindof getting into surgery, because
I definitely have the mindsetof like I need to be challenged.
If I'm not challenged I getsuper bored and I just like,
look for the next thing right.
And I always wanted to get intobored and I just like look for
the next thing Right.
And I always wanted to get intosurgery and I was doing a good

(40:10):
job in school, I was getting alot of reps and stuff like that.
But one of my core memoriesthat was kind of a gold nugget
for me, that hopefully you knowsome people listening that maybe
are dental students or whateverit is might might take a lot
out of was I remember working.
I was working under an oralsurgeon as a mentor for a year
and I I was really blessed tohave this opportunity but he, he

(40:32):
always was like um, I alwayskind of looked at him as like a
little bit of a crutch where I'mlike man, you know, I've been
at this, this molar, for for 20minutes and I and I just can't
get it out and I sectioned itand I got there and I got to the
root and I feel like thepatient's starting to get
uncomfortable.
Maybe his numbness is wearingoff a little bit and I just

(40:55):
started to get that feeling inthe pit of my stomach and I went
to him and I'm like, hey, doc,I'm having a really tough time
with this root.
I can't get it out.
It's stuck down there and Iremember him just looking at me
this is Dr G and I talk to him.
I talk about him a decent amountbecause I do.
I learned so much from this guy.
But he looked at me and he'slike he's like hey, man, you're

(41:27):
going to be on your own in sixmonths.
Like am I going to be here foryou in six months when you, when
you come out, like, like goback in there and and figure it
out.
And I think that that's like areally important mindset to have
when you're learning theseinitially is just just go
through all of the steps thatyou can, because you know, when
you're at a course like pathwayright, or you're at one of these
courses, it's the easiestoption is always to to go and,
like ask for help and getsomeone to help you.
But the fact of the matter is,what's going to make you a

(41:48):
better clinician long-term isfiguring out that solution, to
do it by yourself.
So I urge people when they areat courses that they have
someone behind them that needshelp, without doing anything
destructive to the patient.
But really take all the stepsthat you can to try to figure it
out yourself before going andasking for help, because that's

(42:08):
what's going to make you abetter clinician long term and
being able to kind of like jumpover those hurdles is what's
going to allow you to get intothese more advanced dentistry
over time and allow you to do itfaster.

Speaker 3 (42:24):
I think what you're describing is what I like to
call critical critical thinking,yeah, you know.
And critical action, right,like, and I think you know, I I
think I define critical thinkingin implant dentistry.
Is this, like you have, youknow, science-based, right, like
, like, like, like science sayswe should do this, literature

(42:47):
said it shows we should do this.
You know, this is the techniquethat we should do this.
But then the other half of itis fucking common sense, like
should we do this?
You know, is the patienthealthy enough for this or do I
have the skill set to do this?
So I think critical thinking andcritical action comes from

(43:10):
blending the known scientificportion with the common sense,
like reality you have, and youcome together and you exercise
something that I think is beinglost in society, and that is
problem solving.
You exercise something that Ithink is being lost in society,
right, and that is problemsolving.
Yeah, like, like, what you'retalking about is going into a

(43:33):
surgery and solving for aproblem.
That is there it's.
I think our society is makingit too easy to just to just quit
, right, I mean the mentalhealth day, day I can't take it.
I'm just like, are you kiddingme?
I could only imagine if I wason the ranch and I told my dad

(43:56):
one day.
I was like you know what?
I'm not fixing beds today.
I need a goddamn mental healthday.
I can't do it, so I just can'teven imagine saying it.
But you know what?
I bet that the clinic here,once a week someone calls out
because they're looking for amental health day.

(44:18):
I don't read this because I'mstruggling with it and it's
about looking at a problem using, you know, logic and common
sense and critical thinking andproblem solving abilities to
just solve for it.
You know, sometimes, like okay,I set you this and it's still
not rolling out.
Like, why is it not rolling out?
Well, um, it's still hung up.

(44:39):
Yeah, okay, like, like, like,where is it hung up now?
Like, uh, like you know, on amower, while a man did it on a
mower.
Like, well, where am I going toremove more bone at?
Well, we're not going to removeit.
On the lingual side, that'sgone.
Like, well, let's take it outaway from structures and away
from nerves and things that,like, decrease the risk.

(44:59):
That's critical thinking,problem solving.
And, to your point, as a youngdentist.
Like you know, the bestmedicine is to just stand in
there and and do it becauseyou're gonna learn.
You're gonna learn what works.
And after a while you're gonnabe like, yeah, you'll learn
after a while.
Like you see that you see thatscenario on a panel or a cct and

(45:22):
you're just like you know whatwhat.
Every time I've taken a molarout that looks like that it's
taken me an hour.
It's taken me an hour to earn$275.
And for that tooth right there,that's how much is going to the
surgeon, because I can't makeany money on that.
Yeah, I mean, that's how I lookat third molars today.

(45:43):
If someone's in the clinic andthey need their thirds out, I
just look at it and it's likeit's not that I can't do it, but
it's like is it worth my timeand is it worth my
post-operative potentialcomplications and time to do
that?

(46:03):
It's a liability.
If it's not, then here's yourreferral card.

Speaker 2 (46:10):
Learn to overcome obstacles, and that'll also help
you become, like you werementioning earlier, a better
referring doctor, right, yeah?

Speaker 3 (46:21):
Like I remember in Rapid City, like people are just
like oh, I bet the oralsurgeons, you know, hate you for
doing implants.
And I was like City people werejust like, oh, I bet the oral
surgeons hate you for doingimplants.
I was like, well, you know,when I left there I actually
don't think that they did,because I did a good job with
them Do I have implants thathave issues?
For sure, all the things wealready talked about I the.

(46:44):
What they came to dislike moreabout me was when they got a
referral from me.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
They were gonna have to work yeah, they're like oh,
if mooney sends you a tooth, I'mtelling you it's one of three
things.

Speaker 3 (47:01):
If Mooney sends you a tooth, I'm telling you it's one
of three things.
It's going to take forever toget out because it sucks.
The patient's either batshitcrazy and he doesn't want to sit
down, or they're sick as hell.
It's one of those three things.
So for that, like you thinkabout yourself, would you want a

(47:23):
referral for any one of thosethree things?
Yeah, no, like, like you thinkabout yourself, would you want a
referral for any?
one of those three things yeahbut on my, on my podcast during
covid, I had, uh, he was thethen, uh, ada president, uh,
david clements at that tucson,uh, oral surgeon, he was a
president, uh, and uh, he was onthe podcast and I was doing

(47:43):
purpose and I was like, should I?
I go surgeon on, I'm likepresident, or like I'm teaching
GPs how to do implants.
And he said one of the coolestthings ever and said you know,
justin, specialists should dospecial things, and special
things are not a bullet bone,missing number 19s, uh, and all

(48:08):
the other things that I justtalked about are special things.
People with misphosphonates,people with health issue, you
know, health histories, uh,difficult, uh, anatomy,
difficult teeth, all thosethings like then, that's what
they're there for, uh, andthat's that's how I use them.
And I think to your point, howdo we get people to understand

(48:31):
how to be better referringdoctors and ultimately identify
the easier cases and the onesthat we can treat, because your
patients, we know, don't want togo anywhere else?

Speaker 1 (48:45):
How do?

Speaker 3 (48:45):
we keep those?
And how do we, you know, dorisk mitigation and send the
risky ones out the door, becauseyou guys know that, like, if
you do that really well in yourpractice, you won't have any
issues 100%.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
No, I agree Totally and I think that's a really good
point to to end on here.
You know we're, we're, we'rekind of getting to our our end
point here and I think we had alot of really good topics and a
lot of dentists are going tolove, love this episode here.
You know, we went from fromclinical stuff to ethical stuff
to to treating patients properly.

(49:23):
You know we have a couple.
Tyler, I was asked a couplequestions at the end here, but I
just wanted to give you thefloor.
Is there anything at all thatyou wanted to mention at all to
our listeners?
You know, maybe any.
You mentioned a couple newpathway courses, anything else
before Tyler asks these twoquestions and then we kind of
wrap it up.

Speaker 3 (49:42):
You know, listen, pathway and this will sound
funny coming from someone who'strying to sell education but
like, pathway should never beeveryone's only source of
education.
Because you've got, like I'vetaken them all, you know, from
Coyce to Picos, to John Russo,to Carl Misch, and it blends in

(50:05):
and becomes a part of the wayyou practice.
If you're looking for qualityhorses that are going to get you
some reps, and by good humans,because the criteria to be a
mentor at Pathway is, first andforemost, would I let them do an

(50:26):
implant on me?
Within that group I might be alittle bit selective, but
criteria would I let them be.
Sometime I'll tell a good storyabout how Josh McGowan ended up
doing an implant on Wade Cullen.
It was funny as shit.
Wade needed an implant funny asshit.

(50:46):
But uh, well, not to.
Wayne needed a plan and uh, youknow, and it was, and so he had
it down at a fast track andlike they're all of us, you know
mentors sitting around and I'mlike, oh, I gotta be the logical
one to do this right.
And uh, uh, it was funnybecause wayne wayne's like he
goes, you know, like they werehit, did nothing to do with your
, your skill set.
He goes.
But his wayne needed a littlesedation for me now and he's
just like.

(51:07):
I just knew that when I woke upI'd have a bioreis and implant
in there and I was really.
He was really looking.
He wanted this strong blx inthere.
Uh, you know, because at thetime he wanted a conical implant
.
At the time bio didn't have theconical implant.
So that's what he wanted and hegoes.
I knew if you did it, yeah, I'dend up with a bio implant.
I said, well, what if it worked?
He goes.
I know.

(51:27):
And I said, well, what if itwent out?
And he looked at me and he goes.
I needed someone that was alittle bit scared.
He goes.
You would have been scared andhe goes.
They need a little bit scared.
They need a little bit of thatAsian precision and I was like
oh, my God.

(51:50):
It was like they're so funny.
You know, uh, uh, my criteria.
I wrote my criteria.
I was like, like what, would Ilet them work on me?
And the second criteria is dothey let me call them by their
first name?
And this is important to mebecause if you're going to
mentor someone and be a mentorto them, it's not like when we
come mentor here, it's not aboutshowing these doctors how good

(52:13):
you are, it's about showing themhow good they could be.
And there's a huge differencein that.
And the differentiator in thereis ego.
And you got to be able to.
We all have a little bit of it,but you got to be able to.
We all have a little bit, butyou got to be able to check that
and make it about the patientand the doctor that's trying to
learn and not about, like howgood you are.

(52:33):
And the third one is would I,would I invite them to my house
tonight?
Uh, for for dinner and drinks?
You know, when I see thatoutside of the professional
setting, and, uh, I, I and youknow what we've had.
We've had mentors that havecome into our, our, our lives
and left our lives for you knowvarious reasons, but like those,

(52:55):
those, uh, uh, those criteriayou know hold true.
So, uh, you know, if someone'slooking to get you know, uh, in
that environment, like we'd loveto help them.
If there's a course that wedon't offer and someone was
wondering what it is, I'd helpthem find the right course.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
It's about making the doctor better, not about
anything else.

Speaker 3 (53:17):
The answer is really simple I wouldn't do anything
different.
The answer is this If I do onething different, the three of us
aren't talking today, Becauseif you go back in time and you
change anything that you woulddo, you alter the course of the
history and the course of yourfuture and you would not be
where you are today.
So you could look back and say,yeah, I would have rather done

(53:42):
this, I would have rather donethat.
Listen, I had a guy that wantedto pay me an arch of Bitcoin
when it was like $150 a Bitcoinand I was like that's the
dumbest shit I've ever earned.
I'm not thinking that, I don'teven understand it.
So I passed off.
That could have been a billiondollar arch.
That could have been the mostexpensive arch in the history of

(54:04):
Bitcoin.
Even more than a billion, I knowright.
So for me, um, I would changethat, I would change the thing
because I love romantic.
Good god, I hope I would havegotten that most controversial
opinion so large.
Uh, how do I get persecuted?

Speaker 2 (54:24):
yeah, yeah, that's what we like.
We get all sorts of answers.

Speaker 3 (54:36):
I dislike all in full and the reasons I'm going to
preface it with there are humansthat that is the best treatment
for.
And if you've been a dentalistfor a long, long time and I've
got unusable sinuses for anypathology reasons or whatever

(54:57):
and the only way I can get whatthe patient desires is to angle
some and do a true all-on-fourhold, a polo-ballo standard, I
went through that phase Afterlearning from him.
I went through that phase.
People call me oh, you're justold-school Mish style.

(55:21):
Well, I still like six implantsand I like six vertical
implants.
Implants still perform.
Well, we'll load down the longaxis of the implant.
There's, there's, that's, that'sscience over here, right, uh,
but I like six for this reason.
And it'll make more sense whenyou've been doing this for 15 or

(55:45):
20 years.
And that is, the loss of any oneimplant in an all-on-four is
sometimes catastrophic but at aminimum, a pain in the giant
pain in the ass, wow, if youhave six A, you've got posterior

(56:06):
support, you've got somestabilization and the loss of
any one implant in a six-implantsystem is tolerable.
Plants I can section the bridge,I could graft the sinus and I
could come back with a singleunit or a small little bridge to

(56:31):
replace that section and thefull arch in the front is there.
If I lose an anterior one, Icould just take it out and graft
it and do nothing, because Istill might have five.
I can even suffer the loss oftwo and still be where I was if
I would have just planned andplaced them all in force and it

(56:53):
and for me that controversialthing is on like hundreds of
arches of older, like oldertechnology.
I do that a little disclaimer.
The technology and some thingsthat we have to do today are
better than when I was doing alot of arches, but at the same

(57:13):
time, true risk mitigation is Istill like six of them up and
down and they look sexy as hellon a post-op panel, and that's
my story.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
Well, I will tell you that, going off of that, our
motto at our company Smile Nowis more than four.
So when we go in for an arch,more than four every time.
Typically for us that meansremote anchors, pterygoids,
traditional on four on the front, you know, retroframing on the
back with the angle.
But I agree a hundred percentwith everything that you said as

(57:53):
far as it's a pain in the assto lose a single implant in a
standard all on fourconfiguration, and that's why we
love to tell patients that morethan four, if we can do it for
you, you're going to be muchhappier long-term.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:10):
I know, I know, hey, lifford, I mean I had one little
thing on that and that is, youknow when I was, you know when I
was doing you know Arches andRapid and United in the clinic.
You know Zygo's and Terry'sreally weren't like an option.
You know there wasn't any placeto go to it and and having you

(58:31):
know, you know having DanOldsglaw.
You know one of my dear friendsand you know having dan
oldsclaw, as you know, one of mydear friends, and uh, you know,
having taken his course hereand learned, like, um, I think
differently about, like you know, before I met dan and stuff,
like I was like you build thesinuses, you, you, you drop them
in vertically and and there'sstill cases that uh, call for

(58:51):
that because I can.
Someone asked me that day, likewhy don't we even do a
scientist anymore?
Why don't you just do someterrorists and some things?
I said, well, I said, imaginethis scenario and I'll challenge
you guys for this Like patientcomes in, can't afford, just
absolutely can't afford, can'tqualify for a loan to do.
You know the full arch as it is.

(59:17):
So imagine a scenario where youcan go to mrs jones and say you
know what, let's phase this inso that you, uh, uh, could get
what you need over amount oftime and right.
So here's what we're going todo today, like we're going to,
we're going to get these diseaseteeth out of here.
We're going to graft the holes,uh, and we're going to put you
into an immediate denture forabout four or five, six months,
you know.
And then, uh, that's going togive your, that's going to give

(59:38):
your pocketbook a chance to kindof recharge from like this.
Yet you know, which was, by theway, was still profitable in
practice for what he did, uh,and then you're going to move to
phase two, which is we're goingto place the implants.
Now, what if we don't have anyother?
We don't have any bone anywhere.
Uh, the patient can't affordthe, the exotics, the xytos and

(01:00:03):
the cherries.
Imagine a scenario where,especially in today's economy,
where you want links, jones,phase two is I want to do some
bone grafting at both of your,the upper left and the upper
right side, and it takes about10, 12 months for it to like
really be good bone.
So things two is you know, it'sabout five, six thousand

(01:00:23):
dollars, but you got 12 reallystrong.
You got 12 months to to to healfrom that financially, and that
phase three is going be.
We're going to put the implantsin and they need to heal as
well and they've got some timeand so they're going to need six
, eight months of hearing andthen the final thing is what you

(01:00:45):
actually want and that's theteeth that you can smile with
and chew with and do thosethings.
And yes, I just talked to youabout a, a two-year-old program,
you know, maybe even a littlebit more, but you know what I
can get you.
What you need to have.
It's going to be super soundand is probably as good as we
could probably uh, make it.
And I've got you from point ato point b.

(01:01:07):
You know, financially it likesometimes we're so ingrained in
like racing to the finish linewith full arch that we leave
some people behind because it'seither full arch or nothing.
But what I just told you is moreaffordable to a lot of people.

(01:01:27):
And guess what?
You've got four phases ofpre-regretting.
You've got four phases ofregretting it and if you hadn't
have taken that patient out twoyears, you'd have got zero going
, zero out.
So I think that goes back tothat thing.
If you open your mind tohearing what the patient has to

(01:01:49):
say.
Like man, I can't afford thatthen get super creative at
problem solving.
You know, sometimes the problemsolving isn't for the for the
work itself, but if the problemsolving is for the financial
pocketbook like how do I, how doI problem solve for the patient
?
And that is, let's break thisup over two years, because if

(01:02:11):
you're, if you're planning onbeing in the same location for
more than two years, like that'sa goldmine patient, yeah, it's
great.
It's great and they got served.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
Yeah, I mean, I don't think that that should really
be that controversial, you know,and I think that if we're
thinking about long game andyou've inserted yourself into a
community and you want tobenefit that community and give
back to people and, you know,not everyone's going to be ready
for full arts there's a lot tobe said for getting multiple
bites of the apple, beingconservative, not making

(01:02:42):
everybody fit into the same box,um, so I can definitely
appreciate where that's comingfrom and ultimately, you know,
being a pillar of your community, giving back, it's extremely
important as a dentist well,listen, I, I appreciate you guys
, uh, having me on your podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:02:54):
Uh, I love following you guys.
Um, I, uh, I love what you saidabout giving back like, listen,
you're, you're going to haveamazing careers and you're, you
know, you're going to providefor yourself and your families
and that's like, that's not evena, it's not a thought, it's a
given.
Uh, and you and you know, asyou move through this and this

(01:03:14):
podcast goes a long ways as youmove through life, remember how
you got here?
Was someone blazing that trailor leading the path?
And you guys are approachingthe trailblazing status and
don't take that lightly.
You know, like, like, drag somepeople, drag some people along

(01:03:37):
the way because, uh, uh, it's,it's where the, it's where the
real gold is.

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
Uh, it really is Well , I, I certainly appreciate you,
uh, saying that, uh, it's.
It's very generous of you tosay.
I mean, with our little podcasthere and our audience, we're
very humble about what it isthat we're doing, but at the
same time, I couldn't agree morethat you know, having seen what
you did with Implant Pathwayand all the people that you've

(01:04:03):
brought along to success withyou, it's inspiring to us to do
something very similar.
This is not about money orstatus or titles or anything.
For us, I think, at the end ofthe day, those are things you
can't take with you at all, um,but what you can take is, uh,
the friends you make and thecolleagues you make and being
able to practice without livingin a silo, and really that's why
we started this podcast and anduh, create this community and,

(01:04:25):
um, you know, for us, the personthat dragged us along was you,
so we really appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:29):
Yeah, yeah, for that I appreciate you saying that,
because, for that, like, uh,that makes me, uh, you know,
that makes me whole, you know,because that, uh, yeah, being
able to call you guys friendsand then it'd be on your podcast
and stuff, that's uh, uh, yeah,that's, that's better than

(01:05:06):
that's better than titles andmoney and all the other stupid
shit.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
So, yep, yep, yep, yep, because we think about our
own careers and our legacies,the impacts that we make with
our colleagues and with ourpatients as well, and there's
just so much to say for whatyou've contributed to the field
of implantology, all the peoplethat you've inspired to be doing
this, and you know you're oneof those forefathers, so to
speak, that's led to things likethis existing.
So I think we've asked far toomuch of your time and really

(01:05:31):
appreciate you coming on.
We've asked far too much ofyour time and really appreciate
you coming on, and hopefullywe'll get to get you back on the
show again some other time totalk again about, you know,
whatever other beautiful waythat you've impacted our
industry has been.
So again, thank you so much forcoming on and we hope the
audience enjoyed as much as wedid.