May 28, 2024 • 20 mins
The amount of effort and ambition it takes to become "successful" is almost unquantifiable. And, more than a few of us have become addicted to the process and the results of success along the way. Today Matt and Drew talk about redefining success, and how to put the emphasis on the most important things in your leadership.
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Speaker 1 (00:14):
drew.
We're back at it.
I wore the blazer today becauseit's a serious topic, you know.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I mean business dude I've honestly, I feel the power
coming across the table.
It is a power blazer.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Let's go with power.
So let me tell you how I knew Iwasn't going to make it in the
music business.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
That's a great lead-in line.
Oh yeah, how did you know so?
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I was a pretty good musician and I surrounded myself
with pretty good musicians.
You're better than pretty good.
But go on and record deals inhand and all that stuff.
It's like you, you, you movefrom a small town to Nashville
and you think, dude, we got ourstuff together, like this is
going to be legit.
Yeah, I went to a buddy's houseto play poker one night and we
invited this other guy who's agreat guitar player and he
(00:58):
didn't play poker, he justbrought his guitar in like a
little doodle in the background.
Doodle in the background doodlein the background, so he was
like around us, but he was, hewas going to practice while we
were socializing.
Okay, I was like, oh, there's alevel of commitment to an
instrument to be successful thatI'll never have.
Like, you have to love that andpursue that with such like
(01:19):
fervor that even a poker nightis taking time away from
practicing your instrument.
I was like, yeah, I'm nevergoing to be that guy.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yeah, like I'm never going to be that guy.
Yeah, Like like I'm never goingto be that locked in to my
craft.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Yeah, so I was thinking aboutthis, like what does it mean to
be addicted to success?
Yeah, and you know we work withentrepreneurs, we're
entrepreneurs and you seestories of hyper successful
people and I always wonder, like, what in the world does it take
to get there?
And if you could get a momentof self-awareness with them,
(01:51):
would they say it's worth it?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
when it's all said and done, yeah, I mean that's
it's a great topic and I thinkit's something that any anybody
in any kind of leadershipexecutive, leadership, owners,
operators this is something thatyou have to wrestle with
because there is a tension tomanage here that is probably
(02:13):
going to be a forever tension,like it's never going to go for
people that don't know thatwhole phrase would do you know
what the whole phrase is?
not a problem to solve, butattention to manage.
Yeah, yeah, um, I think it's anandy stanley thing, or he at
least made it famous.
I'm not sure who who did, butand I, I think some people hate
that phrase because it feelslike a cop out, but there's true
(02:33):
, it's truth to it.
There's truth to it.
Like there's just some timeswhere I can't solve this problem
.
I have to manage this tension,and the tension that we're
trying to manage is I want to dothings, I want to do great
things, I want to be great, Iwant to be successful.
In order to be successful, whatdo I have to exchange to get to
that level of greatness?
Speaker 1 (02:53):
and success.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
My guess is, and I think it's pretty well
documented, that a lot of thegreats in any industry, a lot of
the times and this is overgeneralization a lot of the
times they're this is overgeneralization a lot of the
times they're not great humans,sure.
They're not great friends,they're not great spouses,
they're not great fathers.
You know, you can watch, youknow my son is 13.
He loves sports documentariesand so we watch a lot of sports
(03:16):
documentaries in time and timeagain, especially the ones about
the coaches, who are reallydedicated, or the great players,
man, they have sacrificedeverything to be great They've
sacrificed relationship withtheir kids.
They're on multiple marriages.
They have just hyper-focused onthat one thing to become great,
and so it begs the questionwhat do you value the most?
(03:41):
You know what I'm saying?
That's a tough tension tomanage.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I was just thinking so it's, this is the week of the
PGA championship.
As we're recording this, I'mnot sure we're going to release
it and I mean there's just nogetting around that Tiger Woods
is.
He's the greatest golfer that'sever existed.
Period, so that's it.
(04:07):
Yeah, 82, you know, wins 15majors.
I don't follow golf, but like,but he's like and he changed the
sport.
I mean, yeah, the guy that wonlast week, I think, won like
three million dollars and thefact that a purse is that high
is due to tv contracts andcorporate sponsorships.
All that's in place because oftiger woods.
Like it was just an old whiteguy.
Sport for decades, you know,right, he came in as a young,
gifted athlete and changed thegame forever.
(04:27):
Right, but, um, the stories ontour is like, nobody liked him,
like you're not going to go geta beer with tiger after a round
of golf because he's probablygoing to the gym or back to the
range to keep working onsomething.
Yeah, you know, pretty smallsocial circle.
And then he, like you said,railroaded his life.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
You know, yeah, same with I mean michael jordan,
right, kobe bryant.
You hear the stories of likethey're great, but they were.
They were tough teammates,tough people to be around you
know, wrestled like withaddiction, the gambling
addiction.
There's just a lot of things intheir life that you know that
and I think, like not to get toofar in sports analogy, but I
(05:04):
think it's a difference in likeLeBron James and some of these
guys and again, I don't know anyof these guys personally, but
you know, LeBron seems to justnot have that same like
intensity towards the sport.
Right he'll?
He's been on record saying it'sjust basketball it's just a
game.
You never would have heardjordan or kobe say that.
Never, it was not just a gameto them, like they took that
serious right and so I don'tknow, I I started to apply this
(05:28):
to my, to my own life and my ownleadership, and it it really is
tough.
I mean I'd love to hear youknow your thoughts on this and
it it really is tough.
I mean I'd love to hear youknow your thoughts on this.
But, like it's, it's toughbecause I am a dreamer and I do
have aspirations.
You know, financially, um,personally, you know for my
business, for my life, for myfamily.
And you know you scroll throughsocial media and you see so
(05:52):
much talk about you got tohustle, you got to grind, you
got to work.
You know you scroll throughsocial media and you see so much
talk about you got to hustle,you got to grind, you got to
work.
You know, 80 hours a week, yougot to, you know, and I'm just a
place in my life where I'm likeI'm not doing that, you know.
But I also still want to besuccessful and grow a business.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
I saw this recent study done of is basically
looking at hyper successfulbusiness leaders.
Okay, it probably translates tosports as well.
And there were not 10, or notseven or nine, but three common
traits.
And it wasn't five, 30 AM icebaths and it wasn't reading two
(06:28):
self-improvement books by 4 AM.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
I can't do that.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
But I thought the three things were really telling
.
The first one is a massivesuperiority complex.
Okay, I know better thaneverybody else.
I am better than everybody else, okay.
That one's kind of given right.
The second one is this massiveinsecurity that I'll never be
enough.
So I can't stop becausesomething's chasing me.
(06:53):
Yeah, that I'll never be enough, so I can't stop because
something's chasing me, thisinferiority secret complex,
which is funny juxtaposition tothe superiority complex.
And the last one is just thismassive impulse control.
Like I will not be dissuaded, Iwill not lose focus on what
I've set out to do.
And you know, in retrospect,hearing those, I was like, okay,
yeah, that those sound likethree ingredients to create
success.
(07:13):
Yeah, but I also go where dothose come from?
And I actually had this phraseI was talking to a client.
I said I wonder if success is atrauma response, hyper success,
interesting, like, what is itin our past that puts the fear
of God in us, or whatever it isthat has to to chase this down,
so we feel something as opposedto feeling something else.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, well, I mean, I think that's that's a big part
of it.
I mean not to get too far downthe therapeutic mental health
thing.
But you know, most of us aredealing with trying to heal some
sort of childhood wound andespecially if you come from a
really great family, it'ssometimes it's really difficult
to figure out what that is.
Uh, which was my story?
I have great parents.
(07:58):
They stayed together, theyloved us, they provided for us
all this stuff and so, like Ireally like struggled with
childhood wound we talking aboutlike I don't have any, you know
, so it took a lot of.
Oh, I do have things that I'meither overcompensating for.
Or you think about people thatcome from a real successful
family that are trying to justkeep the bar, like they're just
trying to measure up, or peoplethat come from poverty and
(08:21):
they're trying to beat thescarcity mindset and so that's
what motivates them.
So it can be on either side ofthose things.
But I think the trauma responsething, it can be very real
because a lot of times we arechasing success, because that
thing is the place we foundwhere we can win right, it's
(08:43):
like, man, I don't necessarilyknow how to be a good husband,
like I don't know how to be agood father, I don't know how to
win at home, I don't know howto do all these things, and so
I'm going to pour myself intothis thing that I feel like I
can control right, Like youcan't control it, but it feels
like if I work hard enough andif I do the right things and I
(09:03):
check all the boxes and I listento the right podcast and I read
the right books and I just I doall this stuff, I'm in control
of that I can make it happen.
And I think a lot of us pourourselves into our work as our
identity, because it's like thisis the place where I can
measure wins.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Well, I've heard somebody say a man's heart
follows his competence.
Okay, I haven't heard that hegives his heart to the thing he
feels most competent in.
And for a lot of us, maybeparenthood doesn't feel like a
place of competence, maybe ourmarriage and relationships don't
feel like a place of competence.
A lot of times the messages weget are those are places of
incompetence.
(09:43):
We're not the right partner,right spouse, we're not
parenting as well as otherpeople we know.
But at work we get out of boys,we get accolades, people pat us
on the back for working hard,working overtime.
So it's like well, I feelcompetent here, I'm going to
give my heart to that.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Yeah, we follow the affirmation and that's where
we're getting a lot ofaffirmation there, and meanwhile
there's a chasm that grows,because the more we give
ourselves to work and the moreaffirmation we get there and the
more we chase it, the more westop showing up for the people
at home or the people in ourclose friends circle or whatever
, and so the less we're gettingaffirmations there, we might
(10:18):
actually start getting theopposite.
We might actually get, startgetting like man, you, you suck
at being a dad or like there'stension in the home which makes
you run even more to that thing,you know.
But at the end of the day, likeI feel like a lot of leaders
are like man, they're justwanting to be known, they're
wanting to be seen and loved andthey're chasing those things.
(10:39):
And I think it's why thestatistics are what they are for
CEOs and C-suite leaders whenit comes to loneliness and
depression and anxiety and allthe things.
Because I think you realize, man, I've poured myself into
something that is very likeperformance based.
It's not me, it's myperformance, and if my
performance ever went away, thenall the affirmation goes away
(11:02):
too.
Right, it's not like thesepeople aren't loving me for who
I am.
They're loving me for what I do, whereas the people closest to
you are wanting to love you forwho you are.
But you've you've sacrificedwho you are on the altar of
success.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Right.
What do you think about thephrase that connection is the
opposite of addiction.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, I mean that was something that I learned.
I went through a treatmentthing for 90 days in 2022.
And that was the biggest thingthat I learned was you know, a
lot of times people talk aboutsobriety being the opposite of
addiction, and what you said isvery true.
It's like it's not actuallyit's it's being connected,
staying connected to to who youare, staying connected to close
(11:43):
friends.
Um, you know, you're someonethat had walked with me through
that season and that thatconnection is huge.
Right, it's like stayingconnected to people who are like
, who want the best for you, whowill speak truth.
I mean, that's another reasonwhy leaders are lonely is
because they just don't haveenough people in their life who
are not getting a paycheck fromthem.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Well, I was going to say you talked about a spiral
with family, where it's like Ifeel competent here, so I pour
in here, which makes therelationships worse, right, so
that's a spiral that gets like afeedback loop that goes bad,
right.
The same feedback loop existswith the circle, professionally,
that they have.
So they try to put highperformers around them, but if
they're the hyper successful,addicted to success leader, they
burn those people out after acouple of years cause they can't
(12:24):
keep up, right, and so thenthey replace them with other
people that they think can keepup with them.
Yeah, and that continues tofurther isolate them and their
journey to be you know.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
As you were talking, I was just thinking there's no
greater feeling in the worldthan for the people who know you
best to affirm who you are Like.
That is to me like, because, atthe end of the day, when you
get affirmed for yourperformance, you know that it's
a projection of who you are Like.
(12:56):
You know who you are behindclosed doors.
You know who you are.
That's not the real thing,although it feels good, you know
who you are behind closed doors.
Yeah, you know who you are.
Is that's not the real thing,although it feels good.
You know like that's not you're.
You're affirming the person I'mprojecting for you to see right
and a lot of leaders who aresuccessful.
They're high performers, theyknow how to perform well, and so
you know.
But to hear it from the peoplethat are closest to you, that's
(13:21):
when, like, that's the mostmeaningful thing.
You know it's like, and Ididn't know.
I didn't know we're gonna betalking about this today, but
just literally this morning, onthe drive I drive my son to
school every morning and out ofnowhere, he just said you're a
great dad dang.
I'm like and if you know mystory, like arguably I haven't
(13:43):
been a great dad right in thepast, like there's moments where
I'm like man, I'm a prettycrappy dad, but for the people
closest to you to see youshowing up for them and trying
to show up for them, and to gothrough hard things and trauma,
but them to say, hey, you know,in his 13-year year old way, for
him to be like man, you'reshowing up, you're taking me to
(14:03):
school, you're no, it's like,you're a great, great dad.
I was able to sort of see it.
Instead of being like no, no,it's kind of like thanks, man,
you're a great son, like havingthat moment.
But I'd trade that.
I mean, I wouldn't trade thatfor all the applause of hundreds
of thousands of people 100%Right.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
So I think it's important you know we're talking
about addicted to success.
Very few people have a workingdefinition for success.
For them.
I think we have this like okay,looking from the outside in, we
see other people and we assumesuccess because there's those
metrics Like it could be bighouse, big cars, big bank
account, could be vacations,whatever those things are.
It's like, oh, big cars, bigbank account, could be vacations
(14:39):
, whatever those things are.
It's like, oh, that person musthave been successful.
And side note, rabbit trail,you never know what someone
sacrificed to get those thingsright.
That's right.
But also say, okay, there'sprobably a working definition of
success that a healthy leaderis going to put in place that is
a guardrail against thedevolving addictive cycles that
(14:59):
happen with that, and so I'vekind of been working on one and
you can tell me what you thinkabout this.
But for me, I think success ishaving the resources and the
courage to make the wise andbest choice at all times.
Okay, Resources and courage tomake the wise and best choice at
all times.
What success?
Kind of boiling that down islike I won't be controlled by
(15:20):
circumstances that dictate to mewhat I have to go do, and it's
not a thing I want to go do.
It's not like I get to do whatI want, so that's success.
It's like, no, um, I'm going tounderstand in a situation what a
great choice is via wisdom andhaving the resources to make
that choice, and I'm just notgoing to get caught off guard,
I'm not going to be backed intoa corner to make a crappy
(15:40):
decision.
Now, it doesn't mean sometimesyou have to chase a revenue
stream.
That's suboptimal, you know,but hopefully that's not going
to be forever.
So it's like you may take on aclient that you don't want to
take on because in this momentyou've got to cover a revenue
stream for a quarter, for a year, whatever that is.
But again, that's why it's aworking definition chasing
success, where I want to get toa point where it's like no, I
don't have to take clients Idon't want to take.
(16:02):
I don't have to make businessdecisions I don't want to make.
I want to have wisdom, I wantto have resources to make those
great decisions in the future.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
I love that.
I might actually steal that one.
That's a great and earlier,when you were talking, I
actually wrote this down becauseI do think it takes takes
taking a step back and definingsuccess 100% Like get out of the
weeds, get out.
I mean, this is you know, ifyou listen to this podcast,
you're going to hear us talkabout this all the time.
You have to work on it, notjust in it.
Part of working on it is aworking definition of what
(16:31):
success looks like in your lifeRight.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Personal life, not just your business life, exactly
right.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
And scarcity mindset around resources and finances,
exactly right.
And and scarcity mindset aroundresources and finances, like I
don't think you have toapologize and say, hey, here's
what I want to make for myfamily so that I can provide
this.
So for those reasons, like forfor us I've said before, we
value freedom, autonomy.
We don't want to be a slave tothe nine to five, whatever we
want to be able to pick up and,you know, be gone for a month in
the summer and work fromwherever we want.
Like those are things we value.
(16:57):
Now that doesn't mean we haveto sacrifice, you know, resource
order to do it, or we might.
We might say, hey, listen,we're not going to take this
client because we value thisthing as a, as a family.
But I think if you don't takesome time to really, you know,
write down, like what you did,like a mission statement or or
even a bullet point list, likehere's the things that I value
(17:18):
and those are like your compass,you know it's a big part of the
shameless plug, it's a big partof like these masterminds we do
we actually do a whole sessionon this kind of thing, like
we're going to help with visionand strategy.
For sure, we're going to helpwith marketing, messaging, all
that kind of stuff, but we'realso going to spend time talking
about what success looks likefor you and how to structure
your business and your lifearound this Cause.
(17:39):
Ultimately, we can help leaderssucceed in their business, but
if they're failing and losing atthe game of life, right, then
what's the point of all of it,right?
So that's a big part of ourprocess.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
So maybe we'll wrap with this story and it's an
exercise, so this will be kindof given away.
A bit of something we would doat our masterminds is when we're
talking about being addicted tosuccess.
Part of it is self-awarenessand steps to grow self-awareness
.
There's a lot of things you cando, but one of the most helpful
exercises I've ever done, um,I'll call it the chariots of
fire exercise, you know, haveyou done this one?
(18:10):
Okay, so if you don't know thestory, um, there's this.
I think it's an English um racer, you know, track athlete, um,
very committed to his faith andI think was faced with a choice
of do I run on Sunday, whichviolates my values and my
religious beliefs, or do I dothe thing I was put on earth to
do, which is be a racer?
And there's this pivotal momentin the story where I think he's
(18:32):
talking to his sister and hesays God made me fast and when I
run I sense his pleasure.
And so there's this exercise Ithink every leader needs to work
through and there's a coupleblanks you can put in there and
whether you believe in God,whether you have faith or not,
you could say the universe.
So that makes you morecomfortable.
(18:52):
But I'll just say God, god mademe blank, and when I blank I
sense his pleasure.
And so, again, if you're notcomfortable with faith, that's
fine.
You can just say man, I'mreally gifted at X, and when I
use that gift this way, I knowI'm at the right place in the
universe at the right time.
I'm doing what I was meant todo.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yeah, Dude, I love that so much and I?
Just one quick add on to thatis I think we need to debunk the
myth of it's on our shouldersand we can control the future
when it comes to our success.
I think if we do what you justsaid, we do that exercise and
then we just show up and do thenext right thing.
(19:30):
Yeah, it's like just what's thenext?
What's the thing I need to dotoday?
What's the next right thing?
It may be taking the morningoff and going and giving it to
your family.
That's the next right thing.
I promise you that that way oflife will lead you to success,
more than the cold plunge in themorning and getting up.
Nothing's wrong with thosethings right, those are great
things if you're into it.
(19:50):
But this idea that I have tostrive and make it happen, as
opposed to just trusting andhave an open-handed, surrendered
approach to life and trustingthat good things are going to
come your way when you do thenext right thing.
drew.
We're back at it.
I wore the blazer today becauseit's a serious topic, you know.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I mean business dude I've honestly, I feel the power
coming across the table.
It is a power blazer.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Let's go with power.
So let me tell you how I knew Iwasn't going to make it in the
music business.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
That's a great lead-in line.
Oh yeah, how did you know so?
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I was a pretty good musician and I surrounded myself
with pretty good musicians.
You're better than pretty good.
But go on and record deals inhand and all that stuff.
It's like you, you, you movefrom a small town to Nashville
and you think, dude, we got ourstuff together, like this is
going to be legit.
Yeah, I went to a buddy's houseto play poker one night and we
invited this other guy who's agreat guitar player and he
(00:58):
didn't play poker, he justbrought his guitar in like a
little doodle in the background.
Doodle in the background doodlein the background, so he was
like around us, but he was, hewas going to practice while we
were socializing.
Okay, I was like, oh, there's alevel of commitment to an
instrument to be successful thatI'll never have.
Like, you have to love that andpursue that with such like
(01:19):
fervor that even a poker nightis taking time away from
practicing your instrument.
I was like, yeah, I'm nevergoing to be that guy.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yeah, like I'm never going to be that guy.
Yeah, Like like I'm never goingto be that locked in to my
craft.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Yeah, so I was thinking aboutthis, like what does it mean to
be addicted to success?
Yeah, and you know we work withentrepreneurs, we're
entrepreneurs and you seestories of hyper successful
people and I always wonder, like, what in the world does it take
to get there?
And if you could get a momentof self-awareness with them,
(01:51):
would they say it's worth it?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
when it's all said and done, yeah, I mean that's
it's a great topic and I thinkit's something that any anybody
in any kind of leadershipexecutive, leadership, owners,
operators this is something thatyou have to wrestle with
because there is a tension tomanage here that is probably
(02:13):
going to be a forever tension,like it's never going to go for
people that don't know thatwhole phrase would do you know
what the whole phrase is?
not a problem to solve, butattention to manage.
Yeah, yeah, um, I think it's anandy stanley thing, or he at
least made it famous.
I'm not sure who who did, butand I, I think some people hate
that phrase because it feelslike a cop out, but there's true
(02:33):
, it's truth to it.
There's truth to it.
Like there's just some timeswhere I can't solve this problem
.
I have to manage this tension,and the tension that we're
trying to manage is I want to dothings, I want to do great
things, I want to be great, Iwant to be successful.
In order to be successful, whatdo I have to exchange to get to
that level of greatness?
Speaker 1 (02:53):
and success.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
My guess is, and I think it's pretty well
documented, that a lot of thegreats in any industry, a lot of
the times and this is overgeneralization a lot of the
times they're this is overgeneralization a lot of the
times they're not great humans,sure.
They're not great friends,they're not great spouses,
they're not great fathers.
You know, you can watch, youknow my son is 13.
He loves sports documentariesand so we watch a lot of sports
(03:16):
documentaries in time and timeagain, especially the ones about
the coaches, who are reallydedicated, or the great players,
man, they have sacrificedeverything to be great They've
sacrificed relationship withtheir kids.
They're on multiple marriages.
They have just hyper-focused onthat one thing to become great,
and so it begs the questionwhat do you value the most?
(03:41):
You know what I'm saying?
That's a tough tension tomanage.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I was just thinking so it's, this is the week of the
PGA championship.
As we're recording this, I'mnot sure we're going to release
it and I mean there's just nogetting around that Tiger Woods
is.
He's the greatest golfer that'sever existed.
Period, so that's it.
(04:07):
Yeah, 82, you know, wins 15majors.
I don't follow golf, but like,but he's like and he changed the
sport.
I mean, yeah, the guy that wonlast week, I think, won like
three million dollars and thefact that a purse is that high
is due to tv contracts andcorporate sponsorships.
All that's in place because oftiger woods.
Like it was just an old whiteguy.
Sport for decades, you know,right, he came in as a young,
gifted athlete and changed thegame forever.
(04:27):
Right, but, um, the stories ontour is like, nobody liked him,
like you're not going to go geta beer with tiger after a round
of golf because he's probablygoing to the gym or back to the
range to keep working onsomething.
Yeah, you know, pretty smallsocial circle.
And then he, like you said,railroaded his life.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
You know, yeah, same with I mean michael jordan,
right, kobe bryant.
You hear the stories of likethey're great, but they were.
They were tough teammates,tough people to be around you
know, wrestled like withaddiction, the gambling
addiction.
There's just a lot of things intheir life that you know that
and I think, like not to get toofar in sports analogy, but I
(05:04):
think it's a difference in likeLeBron James and some of these
guys and again, I don't know anyof these guys personally, but
you know, LeBron seems to justnot have that same like
intensity towards the sport.
Right he'll?
He's been on record saying it'sjust basketball it's just a
game.
You never would have heardjordan or kobe say that.
Never, it was not just a gameto them, like they took that
serious right and so I don'tknow, I I started to apply this
(05:28):
to my, to my own life and my ownleadership, and it it really is
tough.
I mean I'd love to hear youknow your thoughts on this and
it it really is tough.
I mean I'd love to hear youknow your thoughts on this.
But, like it's, it's toughbecause I am a dreamer and I do
have aspirations.
You know, financially, um,personally, you know for my
business, for my life, for myfamily.
And you know you scroll throughsocial media and you see so
(05:52):
much talk about you got tohustle, you got to grind, you
got to work.
You know you scroll throughsocial media and you see so much
talk about you got to hustle,you got to grind, you got to
work.
You know, 80 hours a week, yougot to, you know, and I'm just a
place in my life where I'm likeI'm not doing that, you know.
But I also still want to besuccessful and grow a business.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
I saw this recent study done of is basically
looking at hyper successfulbusiness leaders.
Okay, it probably translates tosports as well.
And there were not 10, or notseven or nine, but three common
traits.
And it wasn't five, 30 AM icebaths and it wasn't reading two
(06:28):
self-improvement books by 4 AM.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
I can't do that.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
But I thought the three things were really telling
.
The first one is a massivesuperiority complex.
Okay, I know better thaneverybody else.
I am better than everybody else, okay.
That one's kind of given right.
The second one is this massiveinsecurity that I'll never be
enough.
So I can't stop becausesomething's chasing me.
(06:53):
Yeah, that I'll never be enough, so I can't stop because
something's chasing me, thisinferiority secret complex,
which is funny juxtaposition tothe superiority complex.
And the last one is just thismassive impulse control.
Like I will not be dissuaded, Iwill not lose focus on what
I've set out to do.
And you know, in retrospect,hearing those, I was like, okay,
yeah, that those sound likethree ingredients to create
success.
(07:13):
Yeah, but I also go where dothose come from?
And I actually had this phraseI was talking to a client.
I said I wonder if success is atrauma response, hyper success,
interesting, like, what is itin our past that puts the fear
of God in us, or whatever it isthat has to to chase this down,
so we feel something as opposedto feeling something else.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, well, I mean, I think that's that's a big part
of it.
I mean not to get too far downthe therapeutic mental health
thing.
But you know, most of us aredealing with trying to heal some
sort of childhood wound andespecially if you come from a
really great family, it'ssometimes it's really difficult
to figure out what that is.
Uh, which was my story?
I have great parents.
(07:58):
They stayed together, theyloved us, they provided for us
all this stuff and so, like Ireally like struggled with
childhood wound we talking aboutlike I don't have any, you know
, so it took a lot of.
Oh, I do have things that I'meither overcompensating for.
Or you think about people thatcome from a real successful
family that are trying to justkeep the bar, like they're just
trying to measure up, or peoplethat come from poverty and
(08:21):
they're trying to beat thescarcity mindset and so that's
what motivates them.
So it can be on either side ofthose things.
But I think the trauma responsething, it can be very real
because a lot of times we arechasing success, because that
thing is the place we foundwhere we can win right, it's
(08:43):
like, man, I don't necessarilyknow how to be a good husband,
like I don't know how to be agood father, I don't know how to
win at home, I don't know howto do all these things, and so
I'm going to pour myself intothis thing that I feel like I
can control right, Like youcan't control it, but it feels
like if I work hard enough andif I do the right things and I
(09:03):
check all the boxes and I listento the right podcast and I read
the right books and I just I doall this stuff, I'm in control
of that I can make it happen.
And I think a lot of us pourourselves into our work as our
identity, because it's like thisis the place where I can
measure wins.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Well, I've heard somebody say a man's heart
follows his competence.
Okay, I haven't heard that hegives his heart to the thing he
feels most competent in.
And for a lot of us, maybeparenthood doesn't feel like a
place of competence, maybe ourmarriage and relationships don't
feel like a place of competence.
A lot of times the messages weget are those are places of
incompetence.
(09:43):
We're not the right partner,right spouse, we're not
parenting as well as otherpeople we know.
But at work we get out of boys,we get accolades, people pat us
on the back for working hard,working overtime.
So it's like well, I feelcompetent here, I'm going to
give my heart to that.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Yeah, we follow the affirmation and that's where
we're getting a lot ofaffirmation there, and meanwhile
there's a chasm that grows,because the more we give
ourselves to work and the moreaffirmation we get there and the
more we chase it, the more westop showing up for the people
at home or the people in ourclose friends circle or whatever
, and so the less we're gettingaffirmations there, we might
(10:18):
actually start getting theopposite.
We might actually get, startgetting like man, you, you suck
at being a dad or like there'stension in the home which makes
you run even more to that thing,you know.
But at the end of the day, likeI feel like a lot of leaders
are like man, they're justwanting to be known, they're
wanting to be seen and loved andthey're chasing those things.
(10:39):
And I think it's why thestatistics are what they are for
CEOs and C-suite leaders whenit comes to loneliness and
depression and anxiety and allthe things.
Because I think you realize, man, I've poured myself into
something that is very likeperformance based.
It's not me, it's myperformance, and if my
performance ever went away, thenall the affirmation goes away
(11:02):
too.
Right, it's not like thesepeople aren't loving me for who
I am.
They're loving me for what I do, whereas the people closest to
you are wanting to love you forwho you are.
But you've you've sacrificedwho you are on the altar of
success.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Right.
What do you think about thephrase that connection is the
opposite of addiction.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, I mean that was something that I learned.
I went through a treatmentthing for 90 days in 2022.
And that was the biggest thingthat I learned was you know, a
lot of times people talk aboutsobriety being the opposite of
addiction, and what you said isvery true.
It's like it's not actuallyit's it's being connected,
staying connected to to who youare, staying connected to close
(11:43):
friends.
Um, you know, you're someonethat had walked with me through
that season and that thatconnection is huge.
Right, it's like stayingconnected to people who are like
, who want the best for you, whowill speak truth.
I mean, that's another reasonwhy leaders are lonely is
because they just don't haveenough people in their life who
are not getting a paycheck fromthem.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Well, I was going to say you talked about a spiral
with family, where it's like Ifeel competent here, so I pour
in here, which makes therelationships worse, right, so
that's a spiral that gets like afeedback loop that goes bad,
right.
The same feedback loop existswith the circle, professionally,
that they have.
So they try to put highperformers around them, but if
they're the hyper successful,addicted to success leader, they
burn those people out after acouple of years cause they can't
(12:24):
keep up, right, and so thenthey replace them with other
people that they think can keepup with them.
Yeah, and that continues tofurther isolate them and their
journey to be you know.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
As you were talking, I was just thinking there's no
greater feeling in the worldthan for the people who know you
best to affirm who you are Like.
That is to me like, because, atthe end of the day, when you
get affirmed for yourperformance, you know that it's
a projection of who you are Like.
(12:56):
You know who you are behindclosed doors.
You know who you are.
That's not the real thing,although it feels good, you know
who you are behind closed doors.
Yeah, you know who you are.
Is that's not the real thing,although it feels good.
You know like that's not you're.
You're affirming the person I'mprojecting for you to see right
and a lot of leaders who aresuccessful.
They're high performers, theyknow how to perform well, and so
you know.
But to hear it from the peoplethat are closest to you, that's
(13:21):
when, like, that's the mostmeaningful thing.
You know it's like, and Ididn't know.
I didn't know we're gonna betalking about this today, but
just literally this morning, onthe drive I drive my son to
school every morning and out ofnowhere, he just said you're a
great dad dang.
I'm like and if you know mystory, like arguably I haven't
(13:43):
been a great dad right in thepast, like there's moments where
I'm like man, I'm a prettycrappy dad, but for the people
closest to you to see youshowing up for them and trying
to show up for them, and to gothrough hard things and trauma,
but them to say, hey, you know,in his 13-year year old way, for
him to be like man, you'reshowing up, you're taking me to
(14:03):
school, you're no, it's like,you're a great, great dad.
I was able to sort of see it.
Instead of being like no, no,it's kind of like thanks, man,
you're a great son, like havingthat moment.
But I'd trade that.
I mean, I wouldn't trade thatfor all the applause of hundreds
of thousands of people 100%Right.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
So I think it's important you know we're talking
about addicted to success.
Very few people have a workingdefinition for success.
For them.
I think we have this like okay,looking from the outside in, we
see other people and we assumesuccess because there's those
metrics Like it could be bighouse, big cars, big bank
account, could be vacations,whatever those things are.
It's like, oh, big cars, bigbank account, could be vacations
(14:39):
, whatever those things are.
It's like, oh, that person musthave been successful.
And side note, rabbit trail,you never know what someone
sacrificed to get those thingsright.
That's right.
But also say, okay, there'sprobably a working definition of
success that a healthy leaderis going to put in place that is
a guardrail against thedevolving addictive cycles that
(14:59):
happen with that, and so I'vekind of been working on one and
you can tell me what you thinkabout this.
But for me, I think success ishaving the resources and the
courage to make the wise andbest choice at all times.
Okay, Resources and courage tomake the wise and best choice at
all times.
What success?
Kind of boiling that down islike I won't be controlled by
(15:20):
circumstances that dictate to mewhat I have to go do, and it's
not a thing I want to go do.
It's not like I get to do whatI want, so that's success.
It's like, no, um, I'm going tounderstand in a situation what a
great choice is via wisdom andhaving the resources to make
that choice, and I'm just notgoing to get caught off guard,
I'm not going to be backed intoa corner to make a crappy
(15:40):
decision.
Now, it doesn't mean sometimesyou have to chase a revenue
stream.
That's suboptimal, you know,but hopefully that's not going
to be forever.
So it's like you may take on aclient that you don't want to
take on because in this momentyou've got to cover a revenue
stream for a quarter, for a year, whatever that is.
But again, that's why it's aworking definition chasing
success, where I want to get toa point where it's like no, I
don't have to take clients Idon't want to take.
(16:02):
I don't have to make businessdecisions I don't want to make.
I want to have wisdom, I wantto have resources to make those
great decisions in the future.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
I love that.
I might actually steal that one.
That's a great and earlier,when you were talking, I
actually wrote this down becauseI do think it takes takes
taking a step back and definingsuccess 100% Like get out of the
weeds, get out.
I mean, this is you know, ifyou listen to this podcast,
you're going to hear us talkabout this all the time.
You have to work on it, notjust in it.
Part of working on it is aworking definition of what
(16:31):
success looks like in your lifeRight.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Personal life, not just your business life, exactly
right.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
And scarcity mindset around resources and finances,
exactly right.
And and scarcity mindset aroundresources and finances, like I
don't think you have toapologize and say, hey, here's
what I want to make for myfamily so that I can provide
this.
So for those reasons, like forfor us I've said before, we
value freedom, autonomy.
We don't want to be a slave tothe nine to five, whatever we
want to be able to pick up and,you know, be gone for a month in
the summer and work fromwherever we want.
Like those are things we value.
(16:57):
Now that doesn't mean we haveto sacrifice, you know, resource
order to do it, or we might.
We might say, hey, listen,we're not going to take this
client because we value thisthing as a, as a family.
But I think if you don't takesome time to really, you know,
write down, like what you did,like a mission statement or or
even a bullet point list, likehere's the things that I value
(17:18):
and those are like your compass,you know it's a big part of the
shameless plug, it's a big partof like these masterminds we do
we actually do a whole sessionon this kind of thing, like
we're going to help with visionand strategy.
For sure, we're going to helpwith marketing, messaging, all
that kind of stuff, but we'realso going to spend time talking
about what success looks likefor you and how to structure
your business and your lifearound this Cause.
(17:39):
Ultimately, we can help leaderssucceed in their business, but
if they're failing and losing atthe game of life, right, then
what's the point of all of it,right?
So that's a big part of ourprocess.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
So maybe we'll wrap with this story and it's an
exercise, so this will be kindof given away.
A bit of something we would doat our masterminds is when we're
talking about being addicted tosuccess.
Part of it is self-awarenessand steps to grow self-awareness
.
There's a lot of things you cando, but one of the most helpful
exercises I've ever done, um,I'll call it the chariots of
fire exercise, you know, haveyou done this one?
(18:10):
Okay, so if you don't know thestory, um, there's this.
I think it's an English um racer, you know, track athlete, um,
very committed to his faith andI think was faced with a choice
of do I run on Sunday, whichviolates my values and my
religious beliefs, or do I dothe thing I was put on earth to
do, which is be a racer?
And there's this pivotal momentin the story where I think he's
(18:32):
talking to his sister and hesays God made me fast and when I
run I sense his pleasure.
And so there's this exercise Ithink every leader needs to work
through and there's a coupleblanks you can put in there and
whether you believe in God,whether you have faith or not,
you could say the universe.
So that makes you morecomfortable.
(18:52):
But I'll just say God, god mademe blank, and when I blank I
sense his pleasure.
And so, again, if you're notcomfortable with faith, that's
fine.
You can just say man, I'mreally gifted at X, and when I
use that gift this way, I knowI'm at the right place in the
universe at the right time.
I'm doing what I was meant todo.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yeah, Dude, I love that so much and I?
Just one quick add on to thatis I think we need to debunk the
myth of it's on our shouldersand we can control the future
when it comes to our success.
I think if we do what you justsaid, we do that exercise and
then we just show up and do thenext right thing.
(19:30):
Yeah, it's like just what's thenext?
What's the thing I need to dotoday?
What's the next right thing?
It may be taking the morningoff and going and giving it to
your family.
That's the next right thing.
I promise you that that way oflife will lead you to success,
more than the cold plunge in themorning and getting up.
Nothing's wrong with thosethings right, those are great
things if you're into it.
(19:50):
But this idea that I have tostrive and make it happen, as
opposed to just trusting andhave an open-handed, surrendered
approach to life and trustingthat good things are going to
come your way when you do thenext right thing.
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