June 4, 2024 • 17 mins
We've all heard the phrase "Fog of War," but have you ever thought about that in a business setting? Sometimes we get so confused and turned around, and leading gets extremely difficult when we can't see the whole battlefield. Today Matt and Drew talk about how to find capital "T" Truth in your business so you can make better calls and more effective decisions.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (00:14):
we've been sitting here talking for what?
45 minutes at least probablyshould just recorded it.
Yeah, because you know ourprocess is we'll have some ideas
of topics.
Most of the time, you'rebringing a topic or theme to the
table and then we'll just kindof sit down and riff on it.
Right, this one's a littleharder to get into.
Yeah, and maybe I don't know.
(00:36):
It's like I don't know if wehave a good it's good solution
for it, but I think it'simportant.
We've been talking for almostan hour just trying to wrap our
heads around it.
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
We both kind of came in with a podcast we had
listened to not the same podcast, but been challenged by
something we heard, and for methis term came up the fog of war
.
Like I was trying to listen to apodcast unpacking the
Israeli-Palestine conflict thisis not a podcast about that
specifically, but this term fogof war kind of came up and it's
like, okay, what, where's theline on truth, propaganda, facts
(01:07):
, yeah, emotions, my personalexperience and what does that
mean as a business owner?
You know, and I was thinkingabout this movie that I loved, I
think it's called blackhawkdown and it's a really like
tragic story of a militaryconflict and, and you know, and
the picture I want people to seeis there's on the ground
(01:28):
conflict, you know gunfire,shooting, death.
There's groups of airplaneswith intelligence flying around
to try to get perspective andsee it, and there's like the
back office people communicatingto the planes, communicating to
the people on the ground.
It's like there's so manydecisions being made, there's so
much information and it's likewhere's the source of truth to
make great decisions?
You know, as a business owner,if you're the person on the
(01:50):
ground, if you're not, if you'reworking in it, to use our
normal language.
How do you know what thebattlefield looks like?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Well, and you, when you brought that topic, I mean I
, it sent me down the rabbithole because I'm just like
that's, that's true for everyright area of life, that's true
for my, my faith, myspirituality, like just tell me
what's true, like I feel, likeI'm in a place in my life like
and hopefully this doesn't soundarrogant it's, it's, I'll just
do whatever is true and right,like if I, if I know the truth,
(02:20):
like I'll do it right.
It's like that's true inbusiness.
Like if you just tell me theway, like I'll, I'll do what's
right.
I just need to know what'sright.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
And that is like very difficult to know in your
politics, faith, business, everyaspect of your life getting to
that, like you said, the sourceof truth there's this new thing
that's I feel like it's come upin the last five or six years
where this generation says, well, my truth is this, yeah, and
it's come up in the last five orsix years where this generation
says, well, my truth is this,and it's like I'm really
critical of that phraseologybecause it's like, well, there's
no your truth, there's yourexperience.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Now, your experience is valuable, but to go capital T
truth like that's a bigstatement yeah, absolutely, and
so this is what we've beentalking about for the last hour,
Like how do you find what'strue in specifically in business
, you know, because that's whatthis podcast is about leadership
.
It's like I I give people thebenefit of the doubt that are
(03:12):
listening to this that theseleaders want to make great
decisions for their company theywant their business to be
successful.
They want their families to besuccessful.
They want their employees to besuccessful.
They want their employees to besuccessful.
Most leaders I know are outthere doing their best to make
the right decision with theinformation they have.
But sometimes it's reallydifficult to get the right
(03:35):
information right, Like you'vegot your gut and emotions and
there's more data than ever, atleast more opinions on the data
than ever.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
So I had lunch with somebody yesterday and he's like
man, well, if this thinghappens in November with the
election, the next year is goingto be X, y and Z, and so he's
confident that politics changedthe market.
And then I talked to otherpeople like no, the market's
great right now.
Look at your stock account,look at your 401k, it's booming.
It's like well, those know Iinvest in real estate.
(04:03):
So I saw someone say oh, therates are going to come down,
just keep buying real estate.
And other people like how doyou know?
There's not a bubble on thevalue of the asset?
And so there's just so muchinformation out there.
And, to your point, everyleader wants to make a great
decision for themselves, fortheir family, for their company.
They want to succeed andthere's not a lot of great
places to look to get a clearpicture of what's about to
(04:24):
happen in the future.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
And this is the challenge, right, the fog of war
is, I don't want to makedecisions based on my truth,
right, although my experience isvalid.
But at the same time, sometimesthe thing that's most true for
me is my experience, yeah, right.
Like you could come in and say,hey, you know.
Again, I'm not a very politicalperson, I'll leave that to you,
(04:47):
and people actually do homeworkon that stuff but like you come
and say, hey, the economy isbooming right now, it's doing
great whatever.
And my truth, my personalexperience is I'm paying more
for groceries right now than Iever have.
Yeah, right.
So which one is right?
Well, for what's true is what Iknow to be when I swipe my
debit card at the grocery store,it does not feel like things
(05:09):
are cheaper and better interestrates, I mean.
So it's like my personalexperience and this is this is
true in leadership Like what I'mgoing through.
What I'm experiencing feelslike the most true thing at the
moment, which is what's going tocompel me to make decisions.
I'm going to make decisionsbased on what feels true to me
in that moment.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, and this, this business leader I sat with
yesterday.
He was talking about yeah, youknow, if Trump wins and the
economy is going to do X and hegoes, and if he doesn't, then
we'll just buckle down, we'llget through four more years and
then we'll be fine.
He's like I've been broke, I'vebeen bankrupt, I've been
wealthy, I can do anything, itdoesn't matter.
And I was like man.
This guy's got such aconviction and a North star, not
about politics or anything likethat.
He believes in himself that hecan guide a business through a
(05:51):
survival season or a thrivingseason.
But he's an old timer, right,he's almost 70 years old.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
So he's got the experience right.
He's able to look back.
See, some of us that are youngin business ownership and
leadership, we don't have theyears of weathering storms,
right, right, so it feels morelife, or death.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
I didn't become a real estate investor until 2014.
Right, so I didn't experienceinvesting through 2008.
Now some people made a fortunein 2008.
The vast majority of thecountry lost their shirt on
their house.
So which one's true?
Right, it just depends who youtalk to.
You say this phrase all thetime.
You're the first person thatuse it.
It's like life in consultation.
(06:31):
You have to live life inconsultation.
So I think there's what's thebalance between the old timer I
was talking about he's got thisclear conviction and a North
star.
I do business this way and,come hell or high water, I'm
going to be fine.
I don't know if he lives hislife in consultation, but I know
his experience buoys his beliefin himself.
So where do you draw that linebetween core conviction, belief
(06:54):
in yourself, belief as a leader,and then how do I get people
around me that help me when I'munsure of those moments?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yeah.
Well, it goes back to what webelieve deeply in as a company
at fraction X.
It's like it's why we startedthis company, and it's it came
from our own experience of likehey, I'm a much better leader
when Matt's in the room and I'mbouncing things off of him, and
you would say vice versa, likewe're, we're better when we're
leading together.
And so, you know, the companystarted out of like hey, I'm
(07:22):
running my own businesses,you're running your own
businesses, real estate, consult, all this kind of stuff.
But, man, if we put thesetogether and we can actually
help people as a team, we'rebetter together and we believe
in our product, which is gettingpeople, getting smart people
around the table to solve bigproblems, you know.
And so, whether it's that yearlong, you know, fraction X, work
on it, calendar experience thatyou created, or if it's a
(07:44):
mastermind, everything has thesame core principle what we do,
which is connection andtogetherness.
Like hey, we need other peoplespeaking into which goes back to
the self-awareness.
Every episode I think thatcomes up at some point because
we're so passionate about selfawareness, and the thing about
self-awareness is you can't beself-aware by yourself, you know
(08:05):
.
And so, like you have to haveother people in your life, you
know, and so what do you think?
Speaker 1 (08:10):
do you think self-awareness is a decision?
Do you think it's when there'sa breakdown or a breakthrough,
or is it a process Like how doessomeone decide?
I'm going to be self-awaretoday and can someone who's not
self-.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I don't know the answer to that last question.
I think it is a choice.
I think you have to choose andit takes a lot of humility.
Yeah, I was about to say Ithink the first step is humility
.
You have to humble yourself andjust say, hey, you know, it's
Jeff Henderson, we've quoted himbefore on here.
But what's it like to be on theother side of me?
You have to have a curiosityaround how you're showing up in
(08:47):
the world.
For a lot of us it happenedthrough like pain and struggle,
like hey, we, we've made somehuge mistakes so I need to
investigate here.
What am I not seeing, what am Iyou know?
And that's the path towardslike some enlightenment stuff.
And then, once you startgetting that, you start finding
freedom in living, inconsultation, as opposed to,
(09:09):
especially, the american culture.
It's very much we're veryisolated.
We're very much, like you know,in the American culture it's
very much we're very isolated.
We're very much, like you know,it's the whole, if it's going
to be it's up to me type thing,like we have to do things on our
own and it looks, it feels likeweakness to invite other people
in.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
I know so many founders that are running
organizations and the ones thatlack self-awareness.
It's they just keep beatingtheir head against the same wall
and it's like do you not seethe commonality in all your
business challenges, yourpersonal relationships, your
family?
You're the only person in themiddle of all those Venn
diagrams.
How?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
do you not see it?
And I think there I was justtalking to my dad about this
this morning.
Actually, I think there'snarcissists in the world that
may never probably clinicallydiagnosed narcissists who
probably will never have theself-awareness.
It doesn't mean they can't besuccessful.
Actually, some of theirnarcissism fuels success in
certain areas.
Now they're usually and we'vetalked about this before with
(10:00):
athletes they're usually reallysuccessful in one area and lost
everything in the other areas,but they're so laser-focused on
it.
We all have a bit of narcissismin us right as a survival skill
, like it's on a spectrum.
But we're not all narcissists,but we have a level of like
looking out for myself or, youknow, self-belief, whatever.
But I think those who arewilling to invite people in,
(10:22):
whether it's been through painor struggle or like hey, I'm the
common denominator and allthese things crashing around me
are the ones who definitely canfind freedom in living in
consultation, and I will saylike for me, I mean.
One small example is I just gotan email from someone this week.
That was a tough email, but Ididn't take it as hard as I
(10:45):
would have in the past.
It wasn't a business thing, itwas a personal thing because I
didn't feel responsibility tonavigate it on my own.
I'm like, hey, I, before I evenrespond to this thing or lash
out emotionally or whatever, I'mgoing to sit with it for a
little bit.
I'm going to run through myemotions, I'm going to have some
different emotions around it.
I'm going to let my wife readit.
I'm going to bring other peoplein.
(11:06):
We've already talked about it alittle bit.
You know it's like when youlive in consultation, you now
don't feel the pressure to beright and have to find absolute
truth on everything on your own.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
So good, Well, I mean to your point.
The proof of concept aboutliving life in consultation are
those little moments inrelationships Like I think some
self-awareness for me has beenbeing married to someone who's
very different than I am.
Hey, do you know, when you do X, matt, that this happens?
No, I had no clue.
I literally had no clue.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
My wife would say like you show up in rooms before
you ever show up in rooms, likewhat do you?
Mean Like your presence comesin this room and we know you're
here before you step foot in it.
I don't know what that means.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
The first one that mentioned you like even you walk
heavy, like you walk in thehouse, and I have a daughter
that is very similar to yourpersonality and that was like,
yeah, I hear her coming beforeshe shows up.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
It's like I know that's her, yeah, and so even
that relationship right, themost important relationship in
my life is is with my wife andfor her to say like hey, just
you know, this is the impactthat has, and it's not a moral
right or wrong, it's just an is.
Then I go, I may affect a roomreally negatively if I'm not
(12:19):
careful with my presence in thatroom.
So then it was a chance to growLike I had a chance to, to
humble myself to something Iwasn't aware of.
But I just think about thecourage it takes someone to be
like hey, do you know this aboutyourself?
Like cause, I didn't ask herhey, will you tell me how
terrible I am?
Yeah, Right, she had just likehey look, matt, this is
impacting you here and this isimpacting you here.
And then I go.
I had a leader do the samething.
(12:40):
He's like hey, dude, you'veheard the whole thermometer
thermostat analogy before, andif you haven't heard it before,
it's like some people arethermometers, they just tell you
the temperature of a room, andthere's some people who are
thermostats they can raise orlower the temperature in a room.
It's like you're just athermostat person, you can make
a room go right or yeah.
So be careful what you're, bewise with your words.
I'm like oh, I had no clue, Idid that.
(13:01):
So it took somebody being boldin my life to be like hey, you
impact things more than youthink you do.
So those were moments of growthand self-awareness for me.
But it took courage fromsomebody else saying dude, I
love you, you're gifted and youreally suck at this.
You need to get better at this.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Yeah, and then it's your job as a leader to respond
to it.
Yeah, you know.
Yeah, well, and with thisepisode we're not trying to boil
it down to one, you know,clever point.
I think it was just like let'shave a conversation and I think,
you know, for me it was helpfuljust to process, you know, with
you through this stuff.
But I do think there's probablysome action points.
I think, just in hearing youtalk about the gentleman, like,
(13:40):
surround yourself with peoplethat have some experience, that
have been through some thingsbefore, that they can tell you
like, hey, I've done this, I'vetried this, I can tell you how
this is going to work out there.
You need a mentor, you need acoach of some sort, right.
You also need the peers.
You need people who are just init with you, that can affirm
and reflect back and all thosedifferent things.
And I think, if you have thatkind of community around you,
(14:04):
right, like when it comes tolike, how do you find absolute
truth?
Well, some things there's,there's data on right, you can
just look and you can say, hey,not emotionally, like this is
working, that's not working.
I might love the thing that'snot working, but I need to kill
it because the data shows it'snot working right.
Those are a little bit easier.
But there's a lot of decisionsthat there's no data on it's gut
(14:24):
stuff, it's feeling, it'swhatever, and on those, if
you're a leader that is not um,like if you don't have anybody
else speaking to your life, likeeven if you're listening or
watching this right now andyou're like you know what I'm
thinking, I don't have anybodyI'm bouncing ideas off of,
there's a chance that you'relacking in some self-awareness,
right?
Does it mean you're a badperson?
Doesn't mean you're making abunch of mistakes.
(14:45):
Just means you're not gettingto see the full picture.
Could you not let anybody in?
And the last thing I'll say andI'll turn over to you to kind of
close this out but I think inour American culture today we've
really glamorized the one manshow, the solo CEO.
You know you got to have allthe answers.
You're the, you climb your wayto the top and when you get
(15:06):
there, you're all alone.
I think part of what Fraction Xis trying to do is debunk that
myth that you don't have to leadalone.
Even if you hold a C-suiteposition or a CEO, it doesn't
mean you have to carry all thepressure on yourself to make
every decision and geteverything right.
I think that is a lie, thatwe've been sold in business and
religion and all different areasRight.
(15:27):
We were never intended to leadalone, lead by ourselves.
That's not how we were designed, and so we can kind of free
ourselves with that and say, hey, I can bring in a few people
that I trust to help me makebetter decisions.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
It's so well said.
I hate to even like try tofollow that up, but I'm going to
clean up my mess.
If you think about like, maybeElon Musk doesn't live life in
consultation, maybe they'rethose very few exceptions of
people who are just soexceptional that they can build
and sustain large organizationsand have these incredible ideas
and execute.
(15:59):
But my guess is the vastmajority of us are not Elon Musk
and it's the temptation is tolook at um, people have the as
they build businesses on theirsocial media, whatever it is,
and be like that's clearly that,like unicorn leader that just
goes out there and grinds andgets it done.
I really doubt that's the case.
I think the vast majority ofpeople have someone in their
life that they've bouncedsomething off of.
(16:19):
You told me a story of a friendof ours that owns a media
company and he attributed to his, I guess, father-in-law saying
I wouldn't have started this ifhe didn't invest in me and say,
dude, I think you need to ownyour own company.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Right, and you look at him now and you're like, oh
well, this, he was a great,should try this.
It gave him the courage to giveit a shot, right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
And I think we all need somebody like that in our
corner and, you know, if you'reone of those leaders that just
doesn't have that group aroundthem.
That's what FractionX is for.
That's what our masterminds arefor is we want to put leaders
in your life.
They're going to put fuel inyour tanks and wind in your
sails and let you know you'renot alone.
Bye.
we've been sitting here talking for what?
45 minutes at least probablyshould just recorded it.
Yeah, because you know ourprocess is we'll have some ideas
of topics.
Most of the time, you'rebringing a topic or theme to the
table and then we'll just kindof sit down and riff on it.
Right, this one's a littleharder to get into.
Yeah, and maybe I don't know.
(00:36):
It's like I don't know if wehave a good it's good solution
for it, but I think it'simportant.
We've been talking for almostan hour just trying to wrap our
heads around it.
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
We both kind of came in with a podcast we had
listened to not the same podcast, but been challenged by
something we heard, and for methis term came up the fog of war
.
Like I was trying to listen to apodcast unpacking the
Israeli-Palestine conflict thisis not a podcast about that
specifically, but this term fogof war kind of came up and it's
like, okay, what, where's theline on truth, propaganda, facts
(01:07):
, yeah, emotions, my personalexperience and what does that
mean as a business owner?
You know, and I was thinkingabout this movie that I loved, I
think it's called blackhawkdown and it's a really like
tragic story of a militaryconflict and, and you know, and
the picture I want people to seeis there's on the ground
(01:28):
conflict, you know gunfire,shooting, death.
There's groups of airplaneswith intelligence flying around
to try to get perspective andsee it, and there's like the
back office people communicatingto the planes, communicating to
the people on the ground.
It's like there's so manydecisions being made, there's so
much information and it's likewhere's the source of truth to
make great decisions?
You know, as a business owner,if you're the person on the
(01:50):
ground, if you're not, if you'reworking in it, to use our
normal language.
How do you know what thebattlefield looks like?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Well, and you, when you brought that topic, I mean I
, it sent me down the rabbithole because I'm just like
that's, that's true for everyright area of life, that's true
for my, my faith, myspirituality, like just tell me
what's true, like I feel, likeI'm in a place in my life like
and hopefully this doesn't soundarrogant it's, it's, I'll just
do whatever is true and right,like if I, if I know the truth,
(02:20):
like I'll do it right.
It's like that's true inbusiness.
Like if you just tell me theway, like I'll, I'll do what's
right.
I just need to know what'sright.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
And that is like very difficult to know in your
politics, faith, business, everyaspect of your life getting to
that, like you said, the sourceof truth there's this new thing
that's I feel like it's come upin the last five or six years
where this generation says, well, my truth is this, yeah, and
it's come up in the last five orsix years where this generation
says, well, my truth is this,and it's like I'm really
critical of that phraseologybecause it's like, well, there's
no your truth, there's yourexperience.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Now, your experience is valuable, but to go capital T
truth like that's a bigstatement yeah, absolutely, and
so this is what we've beentalking about for the last hour,
Like how do you find what'strue in specifically in business
, you know, because that's whatthis podcast is about leadership
.
It's like I I give people thebenefit of the doubt that are
(03:12):
listening to this that theseleaders want to make great
decisions for their company theywant their business to be
successful.
They want their families to besuccessful.
They want their employees to besuccessful.
They want their employees to besuccessful.
Most leaders I know are outthere doing their best to make
the right decision with theinformation they have.
But sometimes it's reallydifficult to get the right
(03:35):
information right, Like you'vegot your gut and emotions and
there's more data than ever, atleast more opinions on the data
than ever.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
So I had lunch with somebody yesterday and he's like
man, well, if this thinghappens in November with the
election, the next year is goingto be X, y and Z, and so he's
confident that politics changedthe market.
And then I talked to otherpeople like no, the market's
great right now.
Look at your stock account,look at your 401k, it's booming.
It's like well, those know Iinvest in real estate.
(04:03):
So I saw someone say oh, therates are going to come down,
just keep buying real estate.
And other people like how doyou know?
There's not a bubble on thevalue of the asset?
And so there's just so muchinformation out there.
And, to your point, everyleader wants to make a great
decision for themselves, fortheir family, for their company.
They want to succeed andthere's not a lot of great
places to look to get a clearpicture of what's about to
(04:24):
happen in the future.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
And this is the challenge, right, the fog of war
is, I don't want to makedecisions based on my truth,
right, although my experience isvalid.
But at the same time, sometimesthe thing that's most true for
me is my experience, yeah, right.
Like you could come in and say,hey, you know.
Again, I'm not a very politicalperson, I'll leave that to you,
(04:47):
and people actually do homeworkon that stuff but like you come
and say, hey, the economy isbooming right now, it's doing
great whatever.
And my truth, my personalexperience is I'm paying more
for groceries right now than Iever have.
Yeah, right.
So which one is right?
Well, for what's true is what Iknow to be when I swipe my
debit card at the grocery store,it does not feel like things
(05:09):
are cheaper and better interestrates, I mean.
So it's like my personalexperience and this is this is
true in leadership Like what I'mgoing through.
What I'm experiencing feelslike the most true thing at the
moment, which is what's going tocompel me to make decisions.
I'm going to make decisionsbased on what feels true to me
in that moment.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, and this, this business leader I sat with
yesterday.
He was talking about yeah, youknow, if Trump wins and the
economy is going to do X and hegoes, and if he doesn't, then
we'll just buckle down, we'llget through four more years and
then we'll be fine.
He's like I've been broke, I'vebeen bankrupt, I've been
wealthy, I can do anything, itdoesn't matter.
And I was like man.
This guy's got such aconviction and a North star, not
about politics or anything likethat.
He believes in himself that hecan guide a business through a
(05:51):
survival season or a thrivingseason.
But he's an old timer, right,he's almost 70 years old.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
So he's got the experience right.
He's able to look back.
See, some of us that are youngin business ownership and
leadership, we don't have theyears of weathering storms,
right, right, so it feels morelife, or death.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
I didn't become a real estate investor until 2014.
Right, so I didn't experienceinvesting through 2008.
Now some people made a fortunein 2008.
The vast majority of thecountry lost their shirt on
their house.
So which one's true?
Right, it just depends who youtalk to.
You say this phrase all thetime.
You're the first person thatuse it.
It's like life in consultation.
(06:31):
You have to live life inconsultation.
So I think there's what's thebalance between the old timer I
was talking about he's got thisclear conviction and a North
star.
I do business this way and,come hell or high water, I'm
going to be fine.
I don't know if he lives hislife in consultation, but I know
his experience buoys his beliefin himself.
So where do you draw that linebetween core conviction, belief
(06:54):
in yourself, belief as a leader,and then how do I get people
around me that help me when I'munsure of those moments?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yeah.
Well, it goes back to what webelieve deeply in as a company
at fraction X.
It's like it's why we startedthis company, and it's it came
from our own experience of likehey, I'm a much better leader
when Matt's in the room and I'mbouncing things off of him, and
you would say vice versa, likewe're, we're better when we're
leading together.
And so, you know, the companystarted out of like hey, I'm
(07:22):
running my own businesses,you're running your own
businesses, real estate, consult, all this kind of stuff.
But, man, if we put thesetogether and we can actually
help people as a team, we'rebetter together and we believe
in our product, which is gettingpeople, getting smart people
around the table to solve bigproblems, you know.
And so, whether it's that yearlong, you know, fraction X, work
on it, calendar experience thatyou created, or if it's a
(07:44):
mastermind, everything has thesame core principle what we do,
which is connection andtogetherness.
Like hey, we need other peoplespeaking into which goes back to
the self-awareness.
Every episode I think thatcomes up at some point because
we're so passionate about selfawareness, and the thing about
self-awareness is you can't beself-aware by yourself, you know
(08:05):
.
And so, like you have to haveother people in your life, you
know, and so what do you think?
Speaker 1 (08:10):
do you think self-awareness is a decision?
Do you think it's when there'sa breakdown or a breakthrough,
or is it a process Like how doessomeone decide?
I'm going to be self-awaretoday and can someone who's not
self-.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I don't know the answer to that last question.
I think it is a choice.
I think you have to choose andit takes a lot of humility.
Yeah, I was about to say Ithink the first step is humility
.
You have to humble yourself andjust say, hey, you know, it's
Jeff Henderson, we've quoted himbefore on here.
But what's it like to be on theother side of me?
You have to have a curiosityaround how you're showing up in
(08:47):
the world.
For a lot of us it happenedthrough like pain and struggle,
like hey, we, we've made somehuge mistakes so I need to
investigate here.
What am I not seeing, what am Iyou know?
And that's the path towardslike some enlightenment stuff.
And then, once you startgetting that, you start finding
freedom in living, inconsultation, as opposed to,
(09:09):
especially, the american culture.
It's very much we're veryisolated.
We're very much, like you know,in the American culture it's
very much we're very isolated.
We're very much, like you know,it's the whole, if it's going
to be it's up to me type thing,like we have to do things on our
own and it looks, it feels likeweakness to invite other people
in.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
I know so many founders that are running
organizations and the ones thatlack self-awareness.
It's they just keep beatingtheir head against the same wall
and it's like do you not seethe commonality in all your
business challenges, yourpersonal relationships, your
family?
You're the only person in themiddle of all those Venn
diagrams.
How?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
do you not see it?
And I think there I was justtalking to my dad about this
this morning.
Actually, I think there'snarcissists in the world that
may never probably clinicallydiagnosed narcissists who
probably will never have theself-awareness.
It doesn't mean they can't besuccessful.
Actually, some of theirnarcissism fuels success in
certain areas.
Now they're usually and we'vetalked about this before with
(10:00):
athletes they're usually reallysuccessful in one area and lost
everything in the other areas,but they're so laser-focused on
it.
We all have a bit of narcissismin us right as a survival skill
, like it's on a spectrum.
But we're not all narcissists,but we have a level of like
looking out for myself or, youknow, self-belief, whatever.
But I think those who arewilling to invite people in,
(10:22):
whether it's been through painor struggle or like hey, I'm the
common denominator and allthese things crashing around me
are the ones who definitely canfind freedom in living in
consultation, and I will saylike for me, I mean.
One small example is I just gotan email from someone this week.
That was a tough email, but Ididn't take it as hard as I
(10:45):
would have in the past.
It wasn't a business thing, itwas a personal thing because I
didn't feel responsibility tonavigate it on my own.
I'm like, hey, I, before I evenrespond to this thing or lash
out emotionally or whatever, I'mgoing to sit with it for a
little bit.
I'm going to run through myemotions, I'm going to have some
different emotions around it.
I'm going to let my wife readit.
I'm going to bring other peoplein.
(11:06):
We've already talked about it alittle bit.
You know it's like when youlive in consultation, you now
don't feel the pressure to beright and have to find absolute
truth on everything on your own.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
So good, Well, I mean to your point.
The proof of concept aboutliving life in consultation are
those little moments inrelationships Like I think some
self-awareness for me has beenbeing married to someone who's
very different than I am.
Hey, do you know, when you do X, matt, that this happens?
No, I had no clue.
I literally had no clue.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
My wife would say like you show up in rooms before
you ever show up in rooms, likewhat do you?
Mean Like your presence comesin this room and we know you're
here before you step foot in it.
I don't know what that means.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
The first one that mentioned you like even you walk
heavy, like you walk in thehouse, and I have a daughter
that is very similar to yourpersonality and that was like,
yeah, I hear her coming beforeshe shows up.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
It's like I know that's her, yeah, and so even
that relationship right, themost important relationship in
my life is is with my wife andfor her to say like hey, just
you know, this is the impactthat has, and it's not a moral
right or wrong, it's just an is.
Then I go, I may affect a roomreally negatively if I'm not
(12:19):
careful with my presence in thatroom.
So then it was a chance to growLike I had a chance to, to
humble myself to something Iwasn't aware of.
But I just think about thecourage it takes someone to be
like hey, do you know this aboutyourself?
Like cause, I didn't ask herhey, will you tell me how
terrible I am?
Yeah, Right, she had just likehey look, matt, this is
impacting you here and this isimpacting you here.
And then I go.
I had a leader do the samething.
(12:40):
He's like hey, dude, you'veheard the whole thermometer
thermostat analogy before, andif you haven't heard it before,
it's like some people arethermometers, they just tell you
the temperature of a room, andthere's some people who are
thermostats they can raise orlower the temperature in a room.
It's like you're just athermostat person, you can make
a room go right or yeah.
So be careful what you're, bewise with your words.
I'm like oh, I had no clue, Idid that.
(13:01):
So it took somebody being boldin my life to be like hey, you
impact things more than youthink you do.
So those were moments of growthand self-awareness for me.
But it took courage fromsomebody else saying dude, I
love you, you're gifted and youreally suck at this.
You need to get better at this.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Yeah, and then it's your job as a leader to respond
to it.
Yeah, you know.
Yeah, well, and with thisepisode we're not trying to boil
it down to one, you know,clever point.
I think it was just like let'shave a conversation and I think,
you know, for me it was helpfuljust to process, you know, with
you through this stuff.
But I do think there's probablysome action points.
I think, just in hearing youtalk about the gentleman, like,
(13:40):
surround yourself with peoplethat have some experience, that
have been through some thingsbefore, that they can tell you
like, hey, I've done this, I'vetried this, I can tell you how
this is going to work out there.
You need a mentor, you need acoach of some sort, right.
You also need the peers.
You need people who are just init with you, that can affirm
and reflect back and all thosedifferent things.
And I think, if you have thatkind of community around you,
(14:04):
right, like when it comes tolike, how do you find absolute
truth?
Well, some things there's,there's data on right, you can
just look and you can say, hey,not emotionally, like this is
working, that's not working.
I might love the thing that'snot working, but I need to kill
it because the data shows it'snot working right.
Those are a little bit easier.
But there's a lot of decisionsthat there's no data on it's gut
(14:24):
stuff, it's feeling, it'swhatever, and on those, if
you're a leader that is not um,like if you don't have anybody
else speaking to your life, likeeven if you're listening or
watching this right now andyou're like you know what I'm
thinking, I don't have anybodyI'm bouncing ideas off of,
there's a chance that you'relacking in some self-awareness,
right?
Does it mean you're a badperson?
Doesn't mean you're making abunch of mistakes.
(14:45):
Just means you're not gettingto see the full picture.
Could you not let anybody in?
And the last thing I'll say andI'll turn over to you to kind of
close this out but I think inour American culture today we've
really glamorized the one manshow, the solo CEO.
You know you got to have allthe answers.
You're the, you climb your wayto the top and when you get
(15:06):
there, you're all alone.
I think part of what Fraction Xis trying to do is debunk that
myth that you don't have to leadalone.
Even if you hold a C-suiteposition or a CEO, it doesn't
mean you have to carry all thepressure on yourself to make
every decision and geteverything right.
I think that is a lie, thatwe've been sold in business and
religion and all different areasRight.
(15:27):
We were never intended to leadalone, lead by ourselves.
That's not how we were designed, and so we can kind of free
ourselves with that and say, hey, I can bring in a few people
that I trust to help me makebetter decisions.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
It's so well said.
I hate to even like try tofollow that up, but I'm going to
clean up my mess.
If you think about like, maybeElon Musk doesn't live life in
consultation, maybe they'rethose very few exceptions of
people who are just soexceptional that they can build
and sustain large organizationsand have these incredible ideas
and execute.
(15:59):
But my guess is the vastmajority of us are not Elon Musk
and it's the temptation is tolook at um, people have the as
they build businesses on theirsocial media, whatever it is,
and be like that's clearly that,like unicorn leader that just
goes out there and grinds andgets it done.
I really doubt that's the case.
I think the vast majority ofpeople have someone in their
life that they've bouncedsomething off of.
(16:19):
You told me a story of a friendof ours that owns a media
company and he attributed to his, I guess, father-in-law saying
I wouldn't have started this ifhe didn't invest in me and say,
dude, I think you need to ownyour own company.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Right, and you look at him now and you're like, oh
well, this, he was a great,should try this.
It gave him the courage to giveit a shot, right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
And I think we all need somebody like that in our
corner and, you know, if you'reone of those leaders that just
doesn't have that group aroundthem.
That's what FractionX is for.
That's what our masterminds arefor is we want to put leaders
in your life.
They're going to put fuel inyour tanks and wind in your
sails and let you know you'renot alone.
Bye.
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