June 18, 2024 • 16 mins
Ever felt like your vacations aren't doing enough to relieve the stress? Join the ever-growing crowd of owner-operators who feel like the can't take a break. On today's episode Matt and Drew talk about the importance of rhythms of rest and recovery that keep you sane and keep your business going strong at the same time.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (00:12):
all right, matt, it's summertime.
What is summer?
I know summer involves golf,when your back's hurting.
What is, what is?
Uh?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
what does summer look like for you in the we've got a
pretty untraditional approachto summer, like our beach
vacations in October, likethat's when we go to the beach.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
That's a, that's a hack though, because you know, I
grew up in Florida and when youlive in Tennessee, you got to
get to the beach in likeFebruary or October, or you got
to get a little break,especially if you can get it in
the winter time.
Yeah, when people go down inFebruary, I'm like I get it.
(00:47):
What about you guys?
You guys go to the beach acouple times, right?
Yeah, we still have family inFlorida.
Jamie's mom lives down thereand so we'll go down there for a
week or two and then I've got aclient in Colorado so I'm back
and forth to Colorado once amonth and I'll extend a couple
of those and take some, take akid or two.
Yeah, yeah, I like doing that.
I it's like I feel reallyblessed right now because I love
living in nashville, like thisis a great place to live and
raise a family.
(01:07):
Florida's my home, like youknow.
That's that's jamie and i'sroots, so I love being able to
get down there still, and we'rehuge disney family.
Okay, we love it.
Now I don't recommend going inthe summer, you know, like
that's my least favorite time togo, but the kids are just like
jones and he goes.
We'll do that.
But then, man, I just likecolorado's, where I my tank gets
(01:27):
filled you ever take likefishing poles out there and do
any.
Yeah, I've done some fly fishingout there.
I've never like flown with anyor anything like that.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
But well, this is like my least favorite episode,
because we're talking aboutrhythms and rest and um, man
will you rest when you're active, though that's like you're like
yeah, don't you think like myback's been out for like a week
and so I haven't been likephysically active?
I haven't been able to golf,haven't been able to go to the
gym, and I feel terrible LikeI'm working in my bed most days,
(01:55):
cause that's the only chairthat I can get comfortable in.
I hate it, that's not rest foryou.
No, it's awful, but um, you knowit's, it's coming up, both of
our.
We have several kids.
I have a fifth grader movinginto sixth grade, so they had a
ceremony of an eighth gradermoving into high school.
So there's a ceremony.
You just had a senior graduatefrom high school, so there's all
this transition from, you know,school year into summer and, um
(02:16):
, man, I want things to belinear, like I'm just a like
facts logic, yeah, I don't wantto engage things that are
nuanced and subtle.
It's like A plus B equals C.
I want to run my businessesthat way.
I've got this input plus thisinput that gives me this output,
and so it's almost like youjust want to bear down and just
work.
And then I was remindedlistening to something the other
(02:38):
day, a podcast, and it's likelife is not linear, it's so
circular.
And he just said think about it, like if you just inhaled all
the time you die.
The balance of an inhale is anexhale.
And that's owner operators,that's founders.
Like there has to be the exhalesomewhere or you don't make it.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
And it's so tough.
Owners and operators, man, thisis a big subject because it's
hard to know when to take abreak.
It's hard to know how to take abreak right, because it's not
like you're working a nine tofive and when you take a
vacation you can just leave itall behind and someone else
either picks up or waits for you, or whatever.
It's like no, especially if youare in a kind of business that
(03:19):
has a product or a service.
You have clients.
It's like they're not onvacation.
You got to keep serving them,so it's like this is a.
This is a big topic for ownersand operators to figure out how
do I actually have rhythms ofrest and break where I can truly
recharge while keeping mybusiness afloat?
Speaker 1 (03:35):
I've got kind of two core topics I want to talk about
under this rest and relaxation.
Our actual first podcasttogether was with a really
significant leader named CarrieNewhoff, and Carrie wrote a
really great book and one of thelines from this book is time
off won't heal when what hurtsis how you spend your time on.
(03:56):
So the idea that you can justtake a one week vacation and
that fixes all the stress andpressure and the way that you
work, that's a it's a misnomer,it's false, it's not going to
happen.
So that's a false idea ofrhythm and rest.
Like, okay, I'm going to getthis one two-week vacation a
year and that's going to fix allmy problems.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Right, because what ends up happening is stuff
starts popping up those week ortwo anyway, and then you get
resentful because you're, andyou know, leading up to the trip
, there's all this stuff.
You're trying to get ready andthen coming home, you're coming
home to messes, and so it endsup being, you know, it just kind
of falls apart.
You know the very rarely doesthat happen.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
So I think my encouragement there is.
There's probably a way to leadas a business owner that
integrates rest better into yourweeks than this hope and a
prayer that maybe this onesummer vacation is going to fix
how stressed I am.
I think there's a way to leadyour life and how you work that
puts the right amount of rest init so that your vacation is
(04:55):
actually something you can enjoyand if things pop up from a
work standpoint you're not sofrustrated, it's like no, I'm
just integrated.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, that's the key.
I mean I really, I reallybelieve you're right.
I'm just integrated.
Yeah, that's the key.
I mean I really, I reallybelieve you're right, and I
think it takes a lot ofintentionality.
And well, I'll speak for myselfand maybe someone will relate,
but my tendency is to lead andrun my business with a lot of
anxiety, like a lot, like a lotof urgency.
Things have to be done rightnow, everything's important,
(05:21):
everything's on fire, like Ijust have this internal anxiety
that just fuels me.
So if I'm not careful, I canget up in the morning and jump
right into work.
I mean, I have my coffee, butI'm also like working or
whatever.
And so, in order for me tointegrate rest and rhythm into
my life, I have to be reallyintentional with my schedule, or
(05:42):
I will be the type that wouldjust work, I mean, if I didn't
have a family, like the familyis helpful for me in the
evenings, cause I'll I'll shutit down and be with the family
dinner or whatever, but I wouldprobably just keep working.
Yeah, cause I also love what Ido.
Yep, right, so it's not like Ihate it.
So I'm I, I love what I do, Ilove trying to get ahead.
(06:02):
I love you, know all that kindof stuff, and so if you don't
build in rhythms of rest andpermission yourself to say, hey,
this, this can wait, it's notyou know and I've, I've.
There's apps, there's programsI use now.
You got some hacks, I will justdrive myself insane as a
business owner trying to getaround everything.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
You know.
So I think that's great.
And the other thing you saidwhen we were kind of previewing
this episode was when you'reaway, when you're taking rest,
when you think about yourbusiness, you actually think
about it from a differentperspective.
Talk about that for a second.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Oh yeah, I love it when I'm in a healthy place and
I'm integrated.
I'm actually not fully shut offfrom the rest of my life.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Right, you dialed it back to a different place but,
it's not off.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, some of the busy work might be, you know,
have gone away, but I love andlook forward to going away
because I really dream.
I dream so much better when I'min a new place.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Different environment .
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yeah, and when I was leading a team, this was like
they would always be nervouswhen I'd go away because I would
come back with all these ideasthat I wanted to put in place
and implement, execute.
I feel a lot more freedom now asan entrepreneur and business
leader to kind of be able towork on my business.
It affects less of employeesand stuff, but I look forward to
(07:24):
it.
Like I told you, like hey, whenI'm going away I'll probably
have a lot of fresh ideas andenergy and all that kind of
stuff.
So I love the fact that I'm notso burned out when I go on
vacation that I need to just notthink about my businesses at
all.
I actually have an excitementaround man, I'm going to get
some space to dream here.
Whether I'm hanging out by thepool or I'm reading something or
(07:46):
listening, you know, whateverI'm doing Usually for me on
vacation, I'm not taking in muchLike I'm not.
I'm not reading leadershipbooks on vacation Usually.
You know I'm not usuallylistening to leadership podcasts
, all that kind of stuff, but itreally frees my mind to to
think differently about business.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah, we we love to be distracted, and a distracted
mind can't create.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
I think it's the, when we give ourselves self
space to to dream, um, almostspace to be bored.
That's when we get likeintercepted with these great
concepts and new visions andideas, and that's that's what
it's about.
The other thing I wanted totalk about with rest and rhythms
of rest is I'll never forgetone of the first times I had a
chance to encounter like aleadership, like nugget.
(08:32):
It was actually a studentpastor at the church I grew up
at.
He was leaving to go to abigger church and he said Matt,
my true test of leadership is ifthis falls apart, when I leave,
I failed.
Wow, I was like, okay, I'm 17or 18 years old and I kind of
know what that means, but notexactly.
And so you know, we've got amastermind coming up in June and
(08:52):
one of the exercises we'regoing to be kind of going
through is the true test ofleadership is how long can you
step away and it still besuccessful?
Some people can only build aweek, like I'm going to go on a
one week vacation.
Please don't burn this buildingdown while I'm gone.
Right, and that's maybe, maybethe.
It's a personality basedbusiness where the founder is
the product and if they're gone,there's no business Right.
(09:14):
And then there's some people.
You know that they want thewhirlwind around them, they want
it to revolve around theirdecisions and their actions, and
so maybe they can step away fora couple weeks.
But it's like a really greatfounder not only imprints his
vision for the future of hiscompany but puts in a culture of
people who lead like they do,so that when they're gone it can
(09:35):
still move forward.
So it's like, okay, can youstep away for three months If
something tragic happened inyour life your spouse gets
cancer and you've got to gomanage your family, you know,
and take a different.
Can the business still leadwhile you're gone?
You know, we had this crazyexperience I won't go into the
details where the founder of anorganization we both led in left
we had 10 months without asenior leader.
(09:56):
Fact that that organizationmade it for 10 months without a
senior leader in place wasbecause the culture was strong
enough that even without a pointperson, it could go forward.
It's like, okay, that'sactually a pretty good test of
leadership that when leadersleave the building, what systems
, what kind of culture in placethat keeps moving forward.
(10:17):
So it's like my encouragementto leaders as they're taking a
break this summer or they'regetting some rest this summer.
What have you built into yourorganization that allows it to
function when you step away andfor?
Speaker 2 (10:28):
the leaders that are listening to this, because I
think there's a lot ofinsecurity and maybe even ego
that comes into hey, does thisorganization still need me?
They function without me.
So a lot of more insecureleaders are going to really
struggle stepping away in thatworking.
They're going to say, hey, Ialmost need it to fail while I'm
gone because I need to come inand be the rescuer and the hero
(10:49):
and the savior, right?
I think we got to really checkourselves on that stuff.
I mean, there's a lot of ego,insecurity there.
Because if, especially if,you're an owner operator, a
point leader in an organization,even if it's C-suite or
director level, but part of yourresponsibility is how do you
chart new paths and how do yougrow revenue and how do you all
this kind of stuff, then youhave to think, man, the more I
(11:10):
give away and we did the episodeon markers the more markers I
give away, the more I delegate,the more I can test this out and
be like, hey, I was gone for acouple of weeks and it's going
well, maybe even better.
You, you have to also have torealize that you could be part
of the problem in, you know,keeping things from working
efficiently, like I've done thatfor personal experience,
because a lot of times I'd comeback and they're like hey, we
(11:31):
actually operated better thelast three weeks because we
weren't distracted by your newideas or your new energy or
whatever they're like, please goaway, let us do our thing.
But when I'm in a healthy placeas a visionary and as a leader,
I'm able to kind of look aheadand be two, three, four steps
ahead on like, okay, here'swhere we need to go, here's
where the future is.
So it's actually freeing if, ifwe can put our egos aside and
(11:55):
say, hey, this is now runningwell without me.
Now, what can I do to add value, to grow?
Or, yeah, not just grow.
But how do I now turn aroundand invest back into my people?
100 like?
So now my whole job issupporting and serving and
loving the people.
That I have to equip them to dotheir job better.
(12:16):
That's a great place for apoint leader.
They're just doing vision andthey're doing culture.
They're doing those two thingsbecause everything else is
running seamlessly.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Exactly right.
So maybe, just as we wrap uptoday, what um, what's your best
memory of stepping away andgetting rest and some needed
input to come back as a leader,like what was your favorite
story?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah, I mean, that's a good question.
I'd love to.
I'd love to hear yours too, ifyou have one, because I will say
quite honestly, this idea isprobably a two-year-old idea for
me.
It's not.
Yeah, I've got more stories ofhow it didn't work well, with
running really hard and lookingforward to a date on the
calendar to escape, to escape,to try to get a week, a two week
(12:58):
, even a month, a two month, andthings just really falling
apart for me on that break,because it was that, and not
looking forward to coming back,cause I knew so much stuff
awaited me and I just hadn'tworked through my own issues and
all that kind of stuff.
So I will say now I feel so muchlike like we're getting ready
(13:19):
to go on a family vacationtogether.
Man, I have so much excitementand joy around being able to
really be present with my family.
I used to only be able tovacation when my leader
vacationed because ofinsecurities, ego stuff, but
also like man know, and this isa whole nother episode but if
(13:42):
the leader's there and they'remaking decisions and making
stuff and then I'm coming hometo messes and you know, yeah,
and that's a whole notherepisode on if you're, if you're
a point leader on how to likerespect other people when
they're trying to take some timeoff.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Don't change the game while they're gone.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Give them the space, like, earn the like, the trust
of like, hey, while you're gone,we're going to keep everything,
but we're not making any majormoves until you get back.
That will decrease some anxiety.
But but yeah, I think it's anew way for me.
It's a new way of like buildingrest and rhythm.
Permission myself like we werejoking even before like man
sometimes, for me to take a restin the middle of the day from
(14:17):
like 1 to 2 o'clock.
Man, I'm so much moreproductive the rest of the day.
I would never have done thatbefore.
I would never have said, hey,my body right now needs a mental
reset and I'm going to take abreak.
Dude, that was such a foreignconcept, but it's allowing me
now to live in a more restfulstate.
Not that I still don't wrestlewith some anxiety stuff, but now
(14:42):
when I go on vacation, I'm like, yeah, I'm going to engage some
work while I'm gone, but it'smanageable, it's not going to
take time away from my family,I'm not going to.
It's not one or the other, likeyou said, it's, it's a circular
thing.
It's breathing in, breathingout, you know.
And so I think that's a tattoo,the only thing I ever thought
like kind of made sense.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
You know that MC Escher print of, like all the
staircases, winding and going,but they never go anywhere.
And the idea behind that MCEscher print is like I'm such a
destination guy, I hate journeys.
I'm like where are we going?
How's?
How can we get there right now?
Yeah.
So vacations for me it's reallydifficult because like the
(15:22):
drive down I make everybody inthe car like hate themselves.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
You're the one that's like you got five minutes to
get in and go to the bathroom,get back in the car, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
It's like let's get to.
If we're going to go tovacation, it starts when we get
there, not on the way down there.
So I mean, no, I've.
I've done vacations horriblyfor 43 years I probably will
continue to do that, but I'mtrying to learn, like you, and
build some new rhythms and well,it's good to know yourself.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Like you and I have done actually several fishing
trips now.
Right, those are greatvacations for me.
Yeah, because we're activedoing stuff, sometimes it's
helpful for me to have my mindon other things.
Yeah, like like a healthydistraction, not an unhealthy
one, but like, hey, this issomething that I'm doing with
other people, we're fishing,we're having a great time.
I think it's good to knowyourself.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Well, I was going to say my wife's going to hate me
because all my favoritevacations are like individual
excursions.
It's like you and I went toIsrael.
That was a blast, that was coolno-transcript.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I've done a lot of family trips, you know,
especially when you had kidslike hey, this is a great
investment in the family.
I'm not getting filled up here.
This is a trip for them but no,that's good stuff and I think I
just encourage owners andoperators.
Man, the, the success of your,your business, your longterm
future as a leader, is going tobe dependent on how much you
(16:45):
prioritize rest.
all right, matt, it's summertime.
What is summer?
I know summer involves golf,when your back's hurting.
What is, what is?
Uh?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
what does summer look like for you in the we've got a
pretty untraditional approachto summer, like our beach
vacations in October, likethat's when we go to the beach.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
That's a, that's a hack though, because you know, I
grew up in Florida and when youlive in Tennessee, you got to
get to the beach in likeFebruary or October, or you got
to get a little break,especially if you can get it in
the winter time.
Yeah, when people go down inFebruary, I'm like I get it.
(00:47):
What about you guys?
You guys go to the beach acouple times, right?
Yeah, we still have family inFlorida.
Jamie's mom lives down thereand so we'll go down there for a
week or two and then I've got aclient in Colorado so I'm back
and forth to Colorado once amonth and I'll extend a couple
of those and take some, take akid or two.
Yeah, yeah, I like doing that.
I it's like I feel reallyblessed right now because I love
living in nashville, like thisis a great place to live and
raise a family.
(01:07):
Florida's my home, like youknow.
That's that's jamie and i'sroots, so I love being able to
get down there still, and we'rehuge disney family.
Okay, we love it.
Now I don't recommend going inthe summer, you know, like
that's my least favorite time togo, but the kids are just like
jones and he goes.
We'll do that.
But then, man, I just likecolorado's, where I my tank gets
(01:27):
filled you ever take likefishing poles out there and do
any.
Yeah, I've done some fly fishingout there.
I've never like flown with anyor anything like that.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
But well, this is like my least favorite episode,
because we're talking aboutrhythms and rest and um, man
will you rest when you're active, though that's like you're like
yeah, don't you think like myback's been out for like a week
and so I haven't been likephysically active?
I haven't been able to golf,haven't been able to go to the
gym, and I feel terrible LikeI'm working in my bed most days,
(01:55):
cause that's the only chairthat I can get comfortable in.
I hate it, that's not rest foryou.
No, it's awful, but um, you knowit's, it's coming up, both of
our.
We have several kids.
I have a fifth grader movinginto sixth grade, so they had a
ceremony of an eighth gradermoving into high school.
So there's a ceremony.
You just had a senior graduatefrom high school, so there's all
this transition from, you know,school year into summer and, um
(02:16):
, man, I want things to belinear, like I'm just a like
facts logic, yeah, I don't wantto engage things that are
nuanced and subtle.
It's like A plus B equals C.
I want to run my businessesthat way.
I've got this input plus thisinput that gives me this output,
and so it's almost like youjust want to bear down and just
work.
And then I was remindedlistening to something the other
(02:38):
day, a podcast, and it's likelife is not linear, it's so
circular.
And he just said think about it, like if you just inhaled all
the time you die.
The balance of an inhale is anexhale.
And that's owner operators,that's founders.
Like there has to be the exhalesomewhere or you don't make it.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
And it's so tough.
Owners and operators, man, thisis a big subject because it's
hard to know when to take abreak.
It's hard to know how to take abreak right, because it's not
like you're working a nine tofive and when you take a
vacation you can just leave itall behind and someone else
either picks up or waits for you, or whatever.
It's like no, especially if youare in a kind of business that
(03:19):
has a product or a service.
You have clients.
It's like they're not onvacation.
You got to keep serving them,so it's like this is a.
This is a big topic for ownersand operators to figure out how
do I actually have rhythms ofrest and break where I can truly
recharge while keeping mybusiness afloat?
Speaker 1 (03:35):
I've got kind of two core topics I want to talk about
under this rest and relaxation.
Our actual first podcasttogether was with a really
significant leader named CarrieNewhoff, and Carrie wrote a
really great book and one of thelines from this book is time
off won't heal when what hurtsis how you spend your time on.
(03:56):
So the idea that you can justtake a one week vacation and
that fixes all the stress andpressure and the way that you
work, that's a it's a misnomer,it's false, it's not going to
happen.
So that's a false idea ofrhythm and rest.
Like, okay, I'm going to getthis one two-week vacation a
year and that's going to fix allmy problems.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Right, because what ends up happening is stuff
starts popping up those week ortwo anyway, and then you get
resentful because you're, andyou know, leading up to the trip
, there's all this stuff.
You're trying to get ready andthen coming home, you're coming
home to messes, and so it endsup being, you know, it just kind
of falls apart.
You know the very rarely doesthat happen.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
So I think my encouragement there is.
There's probably a way to leadas a business owner that
integrates rest better into yourweeks than this hope and a
prayer that maybe this onesummer vacation is going to fix
how stressed I am.
I think there's a way to leadyour life and how you work that
puts the right amount of rest init so that your vacation is
(04:55):
actually something you can enjoyand if things pop up from a
work standpoint you're not sofrustrated, it's like no, I'm
just integrated.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, that's the key.
I mean I really, I reallybelieve you're right.
I'm just integrated.
Yeah, that's the key.
I mean I really, I reallybelieve you're right, and I
think it takes a lot ofintentionality.
And well, I'll speak for myselfand maybe someone will relate,
but my tendency is to lead andrun my business with a lot of
anxiety, like a lot, like a lotof urgency.
Things have to be done rightnow, everything's important,
(05:21):
everything's on fire, like Ijust have this internal anxiety
that just fuels me.
So if I'm not careful, I canget up in the morning and jump
right into work.
I mean, I have my coffee, butI'm also like working or
whatever.
And so, in order for me tointegrate rest and rhythm into
my life, I have to be reallyintentional with my schedule, or
(05:42):
I will be the type that wouldjust work, I mean, if I didn't
have a family, like the familyis helpful for me in the
evenings, cause I'll I'll shutit down and be with the family
dinner or whatever, but I wouldprobably just keep working.
Yeah, cause I also love what Ido.
Yep, right, so it's not like Ihate it.
So I'm I, I love what I do, Ilove trying to get ahead.
(06:02):
I love you, know all that kindof stuff, and so if you don't
build in rhythms of rest andpermission yourself to say, hey,
this, this can wait, it's notyou know and I've, I've.
There's apps, there's programsI use now.
You got some hacks, I will justdrive myself insane as a
business owner trying to getaround everything.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
You know.
So I think that's great.
And the other thing you saidwhen we were kind of previewing
this episode was when you'reaway, when you're taking rest,
when you think about yourbusiness, you actually think
about it from a differentperspective.
Talk about that for a second.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Oh yeah, I love it when I'm in a healthy place and
I'm integrated.
I'm actually not fully shut offfrom the rest of my life.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Right, you dialed it back to a different place but,
it's not off.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, some of the busy work might be, you know,
have gone away, but I love andlook forward to going away
because I really dream.
I dream so much better when I'min a new place.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Different environment .
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yeah, and when I was leading a team, this was like
they would always be nervouswhen I'd go away because I would
come back with all these ideasthat I wanted to put in place
and implement, execute.
I feel a lot more freedom now asan entrepreneur and business
leader to kind of be able towork on my business.
It affects less of employeesand stuff, but I look forward to
(07:24):
it.
Like I told you, like hey, whenI'm going away I'll probably
have a lot of fresh ideas andenergy and all that kind of
stuff.
So I love the fact that I'm notso burned out when I go on
vacation that I need to just notthink about my businesses at
all.
I actually have an excitementaround man, I'm going to get
some space to dream here.
Whether I'm hanging out by thepool or I'm reading something or
(07:46):
listening, you know, whateverI'm doing Usually for me on
vacation, I'm not taking in muchLike I'm not.
I'm not reading leadershipbooks on vacation Usually.
You know I'm not usuallylistening to leadership podcasts
, all that kind of stuff, but itreally frees my mind to to
think differently about business.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah, we we love to be distracted, and a distracted
mind can't create.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
I think it's the, when we give ourselves self
space to to dream, um, almostspace to be bored.
That's when we get likeintercepted with these great
concepts and new visions andideas, and that's that's what
it's about.
The other thing I wanted totalk about with rest and rhythms
of rest is I'll never forgetone of the first times I had a
chance to encounter like aleadership, like nugget.
(08:32):
It was actually a studentpastor at the church I grew up
at.
He was leaving to go to abigger church and he said Matt,
my true test of leadership is ifthis falls apart, when I leave,
I failed.
Wow, I was like, okay, I'm 17or 18 years old and I kind of
know what that means, but notexactly.
And so you know, we've got amastermind coming up in June and
(08:52):
one of the exercises we'regoing to be kind of going
through is the true test ofleadership is how long can you
step away and it still besuccessful?
Some people can only build aweek, like I'm going to go on a
one week vacation.
Please don't burn this buildingdown while I'm gone.
Right, and that's maybe, maybethe.
It's a personality basedbusiness where the founder is
the product and if they're gone,there's no business Right.
(09:14):
And then there's some people.
You know that they want thewhirlwind around them, they want
it to revolve around theirdecisions and their actions, and
so maybe they can step away fora couple weeks.
But it's like a really greatfounder not only imprints his
vision for the future of hiscompany but puts in a culture of
people who lead like they do,so that when they're gone it can
(09:35):
still move forward.
So it's like, okay, can youstep away for three months If
something tragic happened inyour life your spouse gets
cancer and you've got to gomanage your family, you know,
and take a different.
Can the business still leadwhile you're gone?
You know, we had this crazyexperience I won't go into the
details where the founder of anorganization we both led in left
we had 10 months without asenior leader.
(09:56):
Fact that that organizationmade it for 10 months without a
senior leader in place wasbecause the culture was strong
enough that even without a pointperson, it could go forward.
It's like, okay, that'sactually a pretty good test of
leadership that when leadersleave the building, what systems
, what kind of culture in placethat keeps moving forward.
(10:17):
So it's like my encouragementto leaders as they're taking a
break this summer or they'regetting some rest this summer.
What have you built into yourorganization that allows it to
function when you step away andfor?
Speaker 2 (10:28):
the leaders that are listening to this, because I
think there's a lot ofinsecurity and maybe even ego
that comes into hey, does thisorganization still need me?
They function without me.
So a lot of more insecureleaders are going to really
struggle stepping away in thatworking.
They're going to say, hey, Ialmost need it to fail while I'm
gone because I need to come inand be the rescuer and the hero
(10:49):
and the savior, right?
I think we got to really checkourselves on that stuff.
I mean, there's a lot of ego,insecurity there.
Because if, especially if,you're an owner operator, a
point leader in an organization,even if it's C-suite or
director level, but part of yourresponsibility is how do you
chart new paths and how do yougrow revenue and how do you all
this kind of stuff, then youhave to think, man, the more I
(11:10):
give away and we did the episodeon markers the more markers I
give away, the more I delegate,the more I can test this out and
be like, hey, I was gone for acouple of weeks and it's going
well, maybe even better.
You, you have to also have torealize that you could be part
of the problem in, you know,keeping things from working
efficiently, like I've done thatfor personal experience,
because a lot of times I'd comeback and they're like hey, we
(11:31):
actually operated better thelast three weeks because we
weren't distracted by your newideas or your new energy or
whatever they're like, please goaway, let us do our thing.
But when I'm in a healthy placeas a visionary and as a leader,
I'm able to kind of look aheadand be two, three, four steps
ahead on like, okay, here'swhere we need to go, here's
where the future is.
So it's actually freeing if, ifwe can put our egos aside and
(11:55):
say, hey, this is now runningwell without me.
Now, what can I do to add value, to grow?
Or, yeah, not just grow.
But how do I now turn aroundand invest back into my people?
100 like?
So now my whole job issupporting and serving and
loving the people.
That I have to equip them to dotheir job better.
(12:16):
That's a great place for apoint leader.
They're just doing vision andthey're doing culture.
They're doing those two thingsbecause everything else is
running seamlessly.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Exactly right.
So maybe, just as we wrap uptoday, what um, what's your best
memory of stepping away andgetting rest and some needed
input to come back as a leader,like what was your favorite
story?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah, I mean, that's a good question.
I'd love to.
I'd love to hear yours too, ifyou have one, because I will say
quite honestly, this idea isprobably a two-year-old idea for
me.
It's not.
Yeah, I've got more stories ofhow it didn't work well, with
running really hard and lookingforward to a date on the
calendar to escape, to escape,to try to get a week, a two week
(12:58):
, even a month, a two month, andthings just really falling
apart for me on that break,because it was that, and not
looking forward to coming back,cause I knew so much stuff
awaited me and I just hadn'tworked through my own issues and
all that kind of stuff.
So I will say now I feel so muchlike like we're getting ready
(13:19):
to go on a family vacationtogether.
Man, I have so much excitementand joy around being able to
really be present with my family.
I used to only be able tovacation when my leader
vacationed because ofinsecurities, ego stuff, but
also like man know, and this isa whole nother episode but if
(13:42):
the leader's there and they'remaking decisions and making
stuff and then I'm coming hometo messes and you know, yeah,
and that's a whole notherepisode on if you're, if you're
a point leader on how to likerespect other people when
they're trying to take some timeoff.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Don't change the game while they're gone.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Give them the space, like, earn the like, the trust
of like, hey, while you're gone,we're going to keep everything,
but we're not making any majormoves until you get back.
That will decrease some anxiety.
But but yeah, I think it's anew way for me.
It's a new way of like buildingrest and rhythm.
Permission myself like we werejoking even before like man
sometimes, for me to take a restin the middle of the day from
(14:17):
like 1 to 2 o'clock.
Man, I'm so much moreproductive the rest of the day.
I would never have done thatbefore.
I would never have said, hey,my body right now needs a mental
reset and I'm going to take abreak.
Dude, that was such a foreignconcept, but it's allowing me
now to live in a more restfulstate.
Not that I still don't wrestlewith some anxiety stuff, but now
(14:42):
when I go on vacation, I'm like, yeah, I'm going to engage some
work while I'm gone, but it'smanageable, it's not going to
take time away from my family,I'm not going to.
It's not one or the other, likeyou said, it's, it's a circular
thing.
It's breathing in, breathingout, you know.
And so I think that's a tattoo,the only thing I ever thought
like kind of made sense.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
You know that MC Escher print of, like all the
staircases, winding and going,but they never go anywhere.
And the idea behind that MCEscher print is like I'm such a
destination guy, I hate journeys.
I'm like where are we going?
How's?
How can we get there right now?
Yeah.
So vacations for me it's reallydifficult because like the
(15:22):
drive down I make everybody inthe car like hate themselves.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
You're the one that's like you got five minutes to
get in and go to the bathroom,get back in the car, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
It's like let's get to.
If we're going to go tovacation, it starts when we get
there, not on the way down there.
So I mean, no, I've.
I've done vacations horriblyfor 43 years I probably will
continue to do that, but I'mtrying to learn, like you, and
build some new rhythms and well,it's good to know yourself.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Like you and I have done actually several fishing
trips now.
Right, those are greatvacations for me.
Yeah, because we're activedoing stuff, sometimes it's
helpful for me to have my mindon other things.
Yeah, like like a healthydistraction, not an unhealthy
one, but like, hey, this issomething that I'm doing with
other people, we're fishing,we're having a great time.
I think it's good to knowyourself.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Well, I was going to say my wife's going to hate me
because all my favoritevacations are like individual
excursions.
It's like you and I went toIsrael.
That was a blast, that was coolno-transcript.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I've done a lot of family trips, you know,
especially when you had kidslike hey, this is a great
investment in the family.
I'm not getting filled up here.
This is a trip for them but no,that's good stuff and I think I
just encourage owners andoperators.
Man, the, the success of your,your business, your longterm
future as a leader, is going tobe dependent on how much you
(16:45):
prioritize rest.
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