April 2, 2024 • 18 mins
Have you ever been at a crossroads, wondering whether to take a bold step forward or patiently wait for the right moment? Our latest podcast episode, Matt and Drew talk about the pace of leadership and why you need both a gas and brake pedal to lead effectively.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
How do we look during ?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I went back with the black jacket.
Today I did too.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I, for me, I felt like it was slimming.
There's a Nat in the room, sowe got to.
We have a question for ourpodcast.
One of our devoted listeners,chris Nichols, former teammate
of ours.
Honestly, we could probably doa whole podcast on Nichols
leadership.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
The greatness, oh, the greatness, oh, the faux pas.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Oh man, Nichols adds One of my favorite Chris Nichols
lines.
We were in a meeting and hesaid it's serious, Like this was
not a joke.
He said something to the effectof there's many different
decisions or many differentpaths we could take and I think
they're all be successful.
That wraps Nichols up in a likethe confidence of the eternal
optimist.
(01:01):
And we're like coming to a harddecision, Like, well, there's
four routes we can go and Ithink we'll be successful at all
of them and I'm sitting herethinking I think all of them
will fail.
No, we love Chris.
We miss him.
He's doing amazing work up inChicago now.
And really happy to see himthrive and, yeah, he's crushing
it up there.
We're going to go visit him,but we got to wait for it to be
(01:22):
summer.
Yeah, not going to, but he didgive us a topic that I thought
was really interesting.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
He said man, I'd be curious for you guys to talk
about the action bias leaderversus the wait and see leader.
Yeah, like, when does aleadership situation cause for
patience and discernment andwhen does it cause and call?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
for action.
I think he was just teeing usup because he knows that we
don't know the answer to this,because we're both gaction pedal
action Right.
I mean, I struggle with thisBecause I want to go fast at all
times, and you want to go fast,if not faster.
So making decisions at theright pace has always been a
(02:07):
challenge for me, so I'm goingto defer this, I'm going to let
you go.
First I'll do some colorcommentary, but I felt like I've
watched you discipline yourself, even though you've got a gas
pedal to not always have to.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I'll return the favor at some point, but yeah, you've
got a way that this works foryou as well.
So I will say that a lot ofpeople confuse activity with
progress, and that is not whatwe're talking about.
So some people just get in theflurry of I'm just going to do a
bunch of stuff and hope itworks.
Ouch, I feel better because Idid some busy work today and I
cleaned up my office and I didthis and this.
(02:42):
I was like, well, I actuallydidn't move you closer to what
you wanted to do.
That's so good.
But yeah, just a reallytalented leader, you know, uses
an algae, and I heard it onetime he said you know, anytime
you're in leadership, it's likegetting dropped in a cave with a
lantern that shows you one step, and the only way to see the
next step is to take the nextstep.
So the only way that you getthe bigger picture, the only way
(03:04):
you make progress and moveforward, is to start taking
steps, and the little light thatyou do have as a leader
illuminates the next step.
And if you just stand there andwait and hope that the cave
gets brighter on its own, you'regoing to be sitting there for a
long time Now.
I do think situations call forclarity and discernment and
wisdom.
When it's super complex, hey,if we do anything right now and
(03:27):
it's the wrong step, it couldtake us backwards.
So before we, just Becausewe're action bias and want to
see progress, just make a move.
I call it the ready fire aimand I can just see this guy
going up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, never citedthe target in, right, but it's.
I had to get a chamber out.
You know how to fire a bullet,I go.
No, there are times where it'sso complex you do need
(03:47):
discernment, wisdom patients.
Yeah but I think more of us are.
This goes back to the fearepisode.
More of us are like the fear offailure Paralysis us to not do
something than to do something.
So I think I'd probably buildthis and do like a category of
activity versus patients.
There are things that if youwere active on Can be really
(04:09):
consequential and detrimental,and there's probably a middle
category of things that you canbe active on that it's not
really gonna Hurt you much andit's not gonna really make a ton
of progress if you do getactive on it.
There's probably category ofitems and tasks and leadership
decisions you can make that if,if you're patient on that's
where it would actually hurt.
You is like, hey, we can't sitaround and allow this to fester
(04:30):
and stew anymore.
We have to do something aboutthis.
Yeah, so I think, when it comesto the challenges you have in
front of you, put them incategories and properly saying
not every decision is the sametype of decision.
Not every activity is the sametype of activity.
Let's put this in a category wecan decide hey, do we need to
wait and see on this or no, dowe need to make action, step and
do something right now on it?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
That's really good.
I mean, as you're thinking thecategories to, I'll think about,
like even you've heard before,important versus urgent.
Yes that's another category.
You can kind of put things inlike this might be important but
it's not urgent, like you know.
But I think you know, to beable to, to move in action or
even change at the pace ofrelationships is important, and
(05:13):
so I would even say it dependssometimes, yeah, on the
relationships that you have onthe team, especially if you're
coming into a role where You'reexpected to make some changes,
like I would probably ask myself, like Some really important
questions like is the, is theteam that I have or I'm working
(05:34):
on, like how important are theyto me?
It's good versus like sometimesthere's, there's organizations
that it's mission critical thatchanges are made immediately
because it's on the brink ofbankruptcy or failure or
whatever it is.
You don't really have time tobuild relationships at that
point.
You, you earn trust and respectby making the necessary changes
(05:56):
.
So you, you're getting back onthe right track and healthy
again.
I've got a client right nowwhere that they're doing that
internally and I'm watching itfrom more of a Consulting.
It's all in the seat, but I'mwatching this guy come in and he
hadn't.
He had meetings with everybody.
He he did do a little bit ofrelational work, but he pretty
much came in and made somechanges immediately.
(06:17):
But he had to and I'm watching.
This is probably six, ninemonths later.
I'm watching the organization.
It's healthier now, there'scash flow and there's things
happening.
So now it's like oh, we see whyhe had to do that.
But that was a differentsituation because at that point
he was not worried aboutprotecting people's staff roles
or anything like that.
He was just like I'll cleanhouse if I need to, right.
(06:38):
On the other hand, there'ssometimes where you step in a
situation that needs change.
But you have to.
You have to care for the teamfirst.
You have to build relationshipswith the team and this whole
idea of you know change at theat the pace of relationships.
Sometimes you've got to waitlonger than what you prefer to
build the trust, have arelationship.
No, people, that people.
You care for the people beforeyou start throttling down on on
(07:01):
changes, which is tough.
That's really for me.
It's hard to.
I'm a relational person, but Idon't understand why everyone
just can't get on board.
Let's just go go, because Ilove change.
I change things when they don'tneed to be.
I just love just for changesake.
Yeah, so it's like it's hardfor me to understand people who
don't like change.
It was really confusing for me,but there are people that, even
if it's for their benefit, arereally resistant to that's right
(07:23):
.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Well, I think what probably happens more often than
not is when a decision or aproduct needs to happen Quickly.
You know, people are patientand wait and see, and so they
get it wrong.
And then sometimes we're Aleader needs to be patient and
needs to be wait and see.
They move quickly.
I think we probably make themistake more often when the
(07:46):
situation calls for the opposite.
So let me put it this way I wasinterviewing a leader with
another leader.
We're trying to decide if it'sgoing to be a good fit for the
team, and we were having thisconversation about gas and break
like hey, as a leader, if youcould say, man, I'm more of a
foot on the brake leader, I'mmore of a foot on the gas leader
.
Where are you?
And he kind of told a storyabout a product launch.
He goes, man.
Early in my career I was reallypassionate about perfectionism.
(08:08):
Like I want our product to beperfect when we launched it to
the public.
I want it to be like soundeniable that people are like
this is an incredible product.
And then he goes.
I've worked at thisorganization for nine or 10
years and we just launchedsomething that, in my opinion,
was not ready to be launched.
The product wasn't perfect, themarketing wasn't perfect, but
they knew, gosh, if we didn'tget this product out now, we're
(08:28):
never going to get it out.
So he goes.
I've just kind of matured to thepoint where it's like I don't
need perfection to be my markbefore we release a product.
And you know, I do thinkperfectionism, when it comes to
decisions, is the.
You know, it's like the greatbeing the enemy of good.
It's like we're going to waitaround until this is exactly
right and it's like, well,you're never going to get it
launched if you're waiting thatway.
(08:49):
So that in that situation I goaction bias is what you want to
be, because it's I'm not sayingpush a baby, you know, out of
the nest before they're ready tofly.
You need to be smart andstrategic, but if you've
considered the strategy and theconsequences upside and downside
, do stuff before you're readyto do it, because it's going to
make you sharper in thosemoments.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Well, I think, too, a big reason why fraction X
exists is and we do this in ouron, our strategic off sites as
well we, we, we work on culturea little bit like understanding
who's at the table andunderstanding who you have on
the team.
That is going to be more of thebreaks and he's going to be
more of the gas, and it's why,for me, it's absolutely
(09:29):
necessary for me to live andlead in consultation, because
nine times out of 10, and that'sgiven myself grace I'm probably
10 out of 10.
I'm going to move quicker, alittle quicker than what needs
to, what's appropriate, right,cause I'm excited about
something I haven't thought itlike, I just had the idea.
Now I want to go run andexecute it.
I want to get, and then I like,then I sort of think, oh,
(09:49):
here's why it doesn't work.
Like, and as frustrating as thatcan be for me, who's like an
all gas type of guy, I have tohave people around the table
with me that are helping methink through all the different
things that I didn't take inconsideration.
I'm just thinking about the bigpicture of the end result.
I'm not thinking about themillion different things that
has to happen to get from whereI'm at right now to where I want
(10:10):
to be, and I have to have thosepeople on team.
So part of what fraction X,what we love to do is not just
unpack culture at thesestrategic offsides, like hey,
understand who's at the table,but also help be that team, like
be the team that you can bringin to say, hey, here's a
decision I'm thinking aboutmaking.
Will you help me?
I want to live in consultationwith other leaders.
Help me think through what arethe impacts of this, and we can
(10:33):
either be the guys that push youout of the nest or we can be
the guys that hold back thereins a little bit and say wait
a minute, I think you're gettinga little too out in front of
yourself.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Absolutely, and I think situation dependent, like
if there is product launch, wecan talk about that.
But there's other situationswhere all gas and no break is
not advised.
And I think you talked aboutlike when a leader comes into a
situation so maybe they've beenbrought in as a change engine.
So it's like, hey, things arenot going well here, can you
come in and help us make senseof this?
So a leader comes in and youknow we've heard really good
(11:03):
advice and wisdom from otherleaders it's like, hey, when you
get into a new organization,maybe there's been some crisis
in the organization, maybethings have not gone well.
Before you make any moves,before you move the chess pieces
, just sit and watch, don't makea lot of changes just yet.
See, okay, let's just let meevaluate what's going on here
and that evaluation period.
You know five years is way toomuch, ten years maybe a little
(11:26):
too much, but One month is notenough either.
So there's probably some wisdomand discernment saying when I
get into a new situation, I'mnot going to be action biased,
to like change out the team, donew products, do new website,
all that stuff.
It's like no, let's see what wehave here first.
And obviously there's financialpressures if a company's not
doing well and you gosh, we gotto cut some weight and we got to
(11:46):
move forward, we got to get theP&L looking right.
Those things determine anddirect those decisions.
But I think, all things beingequal, if you've got time,
assess what's going on.
So, before you put your foot onthe gas, slow down, talk to
people who have been in theorganization for a long time.
Tell me how we got here, like,tell me your story.
Like, what do you love aboutworking here?
What's been the tough part bythis last season?
And try to understand what'sgoing on in that organization
(12:09):
before you start to make a lotof detrimental decisions.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
And I would say, a majority of the time, what you
just said is the case.
Yeah, that's the that's themore often than not, what you're
coming in to do is not it's notcritical Like you need to come
in and you need to have a lot ofcoffees and lunches and
one-on-ones and hear people'sstories and you know, really get
to know and care and love thepeople and then start, you know,
(12:32):
to observe, to watch all thatkind of stuff.
And then I would say so I thinkprobably eight out of 10 times
that's the case Like that's whatneeds to happen.
Go going slower, you're goingto have time to throttle down at
some point, but but now you'llhave people, they'll have your
back, they'll be on board withit.
Right, you start having thoseconversations.
The next thing I would say iswhen it is time to spring into
(12:54):
action.
I think it's.
It's imperative, as much as youpossibly can, to let your team
and let your people know whereyou're going and why.
And the last thing you want todo is to be a leader that is
holding the cards too close totheir, their chest right, A
leader that has a secretplaybook but they're not letting
people know what it is.
(13:15):
No, and I we talked about thisbefore in an earlier episode
there's times where it's notappropriate yet to let people
know where they're at, but atthe same time, when it is time
to make some changes, I wouldsay get up and clearly
communicate where you're going,the why behind it, what you need
from these people you know.
Give them.
Give them the opportunity to beadults and to self-select
(13:35):
whether or not they want to beon board.
They want to go do somethingelse.
I mean, I think if you treatpeople with that kind of respect
, they'll in return, and youdon't have to make it emotional.
It's just like, hey, here'ssome changes that have to be
made, here's why they're goingto be made, here's what I need
from you in this.
There's some goals based onthat, and now let them
self-select.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Well, back to the analogy of a car Like.
That's so good, drew, what youjust said.
Thank you for saying that youhave a gas and a break, right.
It requires both to be ahealthy system, right.
The car works, it operates bestwhen you've got a gas and a
break.
And so I think, two words forevery leader to grow, to become
better at knowing when do Iapply gas, when do I apply
brakes.
(14:13):
You know, a car is not meant tostay in a parking space, it is
meant to be activated and goingsomewhere.
It has a direction, it has apoint, it is taking its
passengers somewhere.
Every good organization, everygood leader is taking some
places from somebody from pointA to point B.
So the gas is probably mostappropriate most of the time,
but the healthy amount of breakto get around curves, to get
(14:34):
downhills, all that other stuff,right.
So I think my leaning towardsaction, my leanings towards like
, let's make activity happen, isbecause we need to take people
from point A to point B.
But two words I think everyleader needs to grow in it's
wisdom and courage.
It's for people who are justlike man my foot's on the gas
all the time I've got to grow onmy wisdom to know when to let
(14:55):
off the accelerator and pump thebrakes a little bit.
And for people whose foot isjust on the brake and they're
scared to get going, you've gotto find some courage, and I
think the best leaders Ifthey're so courageous that they
can't ever think about slowingdown.
Find an operator, a number two,someone who can be your brakes
right higher for your weakness.
(15:16):
If you're a person whose foot'son the brakes and you're not
sure what to do, put someonearound you who's a gas pedal
leader.
We got to go, let's go, let'sget going.
And so, even if you can't findthat balance in yourself, put
the balance around your table.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
I really don't hardly want to add to that because I
think that's great wisdom andcourage.
But I do want to follow up withone quick question for the
leaders listening what are sometools that you found that help
you know whether you're a gaslike?
Maybe you instinctively know,but are there tools that leaders
can use to kind of know wherethey're at on that, on that gas
brake spectrum?
Speaker 1 (15:48):
And so I would say it's seasonal.
So for me, I'm a gas leader,but when things get unclear, my
anxiety rises.
I'm not sure what I should donext.
I become more brake than I'mlike, healthy and comfortable
with, and so I think it'srecognizing in yourself like
I've got a bias.
I would prefer to make thingshappen rather than sit back and
watch.
That's going to be prettyobvious for most leaders.
But I think no one's brakes allthe time and no one's gas all
(16:13):
the time, and I think thecircumstances really dictate
that for me.
Like I said.
But growing in courage issometimes you have to ask people
like hey, will you hold meaccountable to this?
I've got to make morecourageous decisions in my life.
I need more discipline.
I need to get out of bed everyday and go, fight and kill and
bring something back to the caveand feed and provide for my
(16:34):
family.
I need some help to be morecourageous to make those
decisions, and I think someonewho's you know needs more
patience and needs to slow downon her life needs accountability
for that too.
Like, hey, will you help me?
Like I'm making decisions sofast that I can't even implement
the last one I just decidedExactly.
Will you slow me down enough sothat I can be thorough?
Yes, I can be, you know,complete and actually get
(16:54):
something across the finish line.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
I love that wisdom and courage and I think even
discernment as a leader in yourinstincts, your gut instincts we
talked about this on a previousepisode that your gut as a
leader.
You don't have to feel pressurefor your gut to be right all
the time.
You know, and I think just toreiterate what you said, have
people around you that you'rebouncing this stuff off of,
don't feel pressure to be.
(17:16):
Have these great instincts as aleader and you've got to rely
on those alone.
Trust, you know you trust them,but it bouts off.
But I love that man.
I think that's probably a greatplace to wrap.
I've got one more thing.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Do you, okay, bring it.
Be like Chris Nichols, be theeternal optimist and send us
your questions for episodes.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Honestly, we did appreciate that.
First of all, we appreciatethem listening, but then also
giving us a topic and, yeah, belike Chris Nichols Maybe we'll
have them on one day.
We'll see what would that belike Intense, I would all.
I would spend the whole episodetrying to get you guys into
some sort of debate or argument.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
That would be do it.
It would be that hard.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
All right, thanks for that.
How do we look during ?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I went back with the black jacket.
Today I did too.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I, for me, I felt like it was slimming.
There's a Nat in the room, sowe got to.
We have a question for ourpodcast.
One of our devoted listeners,chris Nichols, former teammate
of ours.
Honestly, we could probably doa whole podcast on Nichols
leadership.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
The greatness, oh, the greatness, oh, the faux pas.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Oh man, Nichols adds One of my favorite Chris Nichols
lines.
We were in a meeting and hesaid it's serious, Like this was
not a joke.
He said something to the effectof there's many different
decisions or many differentpaths we could take and I think
they're all be successful.
That wraps Nichols up in a likethe confidence of the eternal
optimist.
(01:01):
And we're like coming to a harddecision, Like, well, there's
four routes we can go and Ithink we'll be successful at all
of them and I'm sitting herethinking I think all of them
will fail.
No, we love Chris.
We miss him.
He's doing amazing work up inChicago now.
And really happy to see himthrive and, yeah, he's crushing
it up there.
We're going to go visit him,but we got to wait for it to be
(01:22):
summer.
Yeah, not going to, but he didgive us a topic that I thought
was really interesting.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
He said man, I'd be curious for you guys to talk
about the action bias leaderversus the wait and see leader.
Yeah, like, when does aleadership situation cause for
patience and discernment andwhen does it cause and call?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
for action.
I think he was just teeing usup because he knows that we
don't know the answer to this,because we're both gaction pedal
action Right.
I mean, I struggle with thisBecause I want to go fast at all
times, and you want to go fast,if not faster.
So making decisions at theright pace has always been a
(02:07):
challenge for me, so I'm goingto defer this, I'm going to let
you go.
First I'll do some colorcommentary, but I felt like I've
watched you discipline yourself, even though you've got a gas
pedal to not always have to.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I'll return the favor at some point, but yeah, you've
got a way that this works foryou as well.
So I will say that a lot ofpeople confuse activity with
progress, and that is not whatwe're talking about.
So some people just get in theflurry of I'm just going to do a
bunch of stuff and hope itworks.
Ouch, I feel better because Idid some busy work today and I
cleaned up my office and I didthis and this.
(02:42):
I was like, well, I actuallydidn't move you closer to what
you wanted to do.
That's so good.
But yeah, just a reallytalented leader, you know, uses
an algae, and I heard it onetime he said you know, anytime
you're in leadership, it's likegetting dropped in a cave with a
lantern that shows you one step, and the only way to see the
next step is to take the nextstep.
So the only way that you getthe bigger picture, the only way
(03:04):
you make progress and moveforward, is to start taking
steps, and the little light thatyou do have as a leader
illuminates the next step.
And if you just stand there andwait and hope that the cave
gets brighter on its own, you'regoing to be sitting there for a
long time Now.
I do think situations call forclarity and discernment and
wisdom.
When it's super complex, hey,if we do anything right now and
(03:27):
it's the wrong step, it couldtake us backwards.
So before we, just Becausewe're action bias and want to
see progress, just make a move.
I call it the ready fire aimand I can just see this guy
going up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, never citedthe target in, right, but it's.
I had to get a chamber out.
You know how to fire a bullet,I go.
No, there are times where it'sso complex you do need
(03:47):
discernment, wisdom patients.
Yeah but I think more of us are.
This goes back to the fearepisode.
More of us are like the fear offailure Paralysis us to not do
something than to do something.
So I think I'd probably buildthis and do like a category of
activity versus patients.
There are things that if youwere active on Can be really
(04:09):
consequential and detrimental,and there's probably a middle
category of things that you canbe active on that it's not
really gonna Hurt you much andit's not gonna really make a ton
of progress if you do getactive on it.
There's probably category ofitems and tasks and leadership
decisions you can make that if,if you're patient on that's
where it would actually hurt.
You is like, hey, we can't sitaround and allow this to fester
(04:30):
and stew anymore.
We have to do something aboutthis.
Yeah, so I think, when it comesto the challenges you have in
front of you, put them incategories and properly saying
not every decision is the sametype of decision.
Not every activity is the sametype of activity.
Let's put this in a category wecan decide hey, do we need to
wait and see on this or no, dowe need to make action, step and
do something right now on it?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
That's really good.
I mean, as you're thinking thecategories to, I'll think about,
like even you've heard before,important versus urgent.
Yes that's another category.
You can kind of put things inlike this might be important but
it's not urgent, like you know.
But I think you know, to beable to, to move in action or
even change at the pace ofrelationships is important, and
(05:13):
so I would even say it dependssometimes, yeah, on the
relationships that you have onthe team, especially if you're
coming into a role where You'reexpected to make some changes,
like I would probably ask myself, like Some really important
questions like is the, is theteam that I have or I'm working
(05:34):
on, like how important are theyto me?
It's good versus like sometimesthere's, there's organizations
that it's mission critical thatchanges are made immediately
because it's on the brink ofbankruptcy or failure or
whatever it is.
You don't really have time tobuild relationships at that
point.
You, you earn trust and respectby making the necessary changes
(05:56):
.
So you, you're getting back onthe right track and healthy
again.
I've got a client right nowwhere that they're doing that
internally and I'm watching itfrom more of a Consulting.
It's all in the seat, but I'mwatching this guy come in and he
hadn't.
He had meetings with everybody.
He he did do a little bit ofrelational work, but he pretty
much came in and made somechanges immediately.
(06:17):
But he had to and I'm watching.
This is probably six, ninemonths later.
I'm watching the organization.
It's healthier now, there'scash flow and there's things
happening.
So now it's like oh, we see whyhe had to do that.
But that was a differentsituation because at that point
he was not worried aboutprotecting people's staff roles
or anything like that.
He was just like I'll cleanhouse if I need to, right.
(06:38):
On the other hand, there'ssometimes where you step in a
situation that needs change.
But you have to.
You have to care for the teamfirst.
You have to build relationshipswith the team and this whole
idea of you know change at theat the pace of relationships.
Sometimes you've got to waitlonger than what you prefer to
build the trust, have arelationship.
No, people, that people.
You care for the people beforeyou start throttling down on on
(07:01):
changes, which is tough.
That's really for me.
It's hard to.
I'm a relational person, but Idon't understand why everyone
just can't get on board.
Let's just go go, because Ilove change.
I change things when they don'tneed to be.
I just love just for changesake.
Yeah, so it's like it's hardfor me to understand people who
don't like change.
It was really confusing for me,but there are people that, even
if it's for their benefit, arereally resistant to that's right
(07:23):
.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Well, I think what probably happens more often than
not is when a decision or aproduct needs to happen Quickly.
You know, people are patientand wait and see, and so they
get it wrong.
And then sometimes we're Aleader needs to be patient and
needs to be wait and see.
They move quickly.
I think we probably make themistake more often when the
(07:46):
situation calls for the opposite.
So let me put it this way I wasinterviewing a leader with
another leader.
We're trying to decide if it'sgoing to be a good fit for the
team, and we were having thisconversation about gas and break
like hey, as a leader, if youcould say, man, I'm more of a
foot on the brake leader, I'mmore of a foot on the gas leader
.
Where are you?
And he kind of told a storyabout a product launch.
He goes, man.
Early in my career I was reallypassionate about perfectionism.
(08:08):
Like I want our product to beperfect when we launched it to
the public.
I want it to be like soundeniable that people are like
this is an incredible product.
And then he goes.
I've worked at thisorganization for nine or 10
years and we just launchedsomething that, in my opinion,
was not ready to be launched.
The product wasn't perfect, themarketing wasn't perfect, but
they knew, gosh, if we didn'tget this product out now, we're
(08:28):
never going to get it out.
So he goes.
I've just kind of matured to thepoint where it's like I don't
need perfection to be my markbefore we release a product.
And you know, I do thinkperfectionism, when it comes to
decisions, is the.
You know, it's like the greatbeing the enemy of good.
It's like we're going to waitaround until this is exactly
right and it's like, well,you're never going to get it
launched if you're waiting thatway.
(08:49):
So that in that situation I goaction bias is what you want to
be, because it's I'm not sayingpush a baby, you know, out of
the nest before they're ready tofly.
You need to be smart andstrategic, but if you've
considered the strategy and theconsequences upside and downside
, do stuff before you're readyto do it, because it's going to
make you sharper in thosemoments.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Well, I think, too, a big reason why fraction X
exists is and we do this in ouron, our strategic off sites as
well we, we, we work on culturea little bit like understanding
who's at the table andunderstanding who you have on
the team.
That is going to be more of thebreaks and he's going to be
more of the gas, and it's why,for me, it's absolutely
(09:29):
necessary for me to live andlead in consultation, because
nine times out of 10, and that'sgiven myself grace I'm probably
10 out of 10.
I'm going to move quicker, alittle quicker than what needs
to, what's appropriate, right,cause I'm excited about
something I haven't thought itlike, I just had the idea.
Now I want to go run andexecute it.
I want to get, and then I like,then I sort of think, oh,
(09:49):
here's why it doesn't work.
Like, and as frustrating as thatcan be for me, who's like an
all gas type of guy, I have tohave people around the table
with me that are helping methink through all the different
things that I didn't take inconsideration.
I'm just thinking about the bigpicture of the end result.
I'm not thinking about themillion different things that
has to happen to get from whereI'm at right now to where I want
(10:10):
to be, and I have to have thosepeople on team.
So part of what fraction X,what we love to do is not just
unpack culture at thesestrategic offsides, like hey,
understand who's at the table,but also help be that team, like
be the team that you can bringin to say, hey, here's a
decision I'm thinking aboutmaking.
Will you help me?
I want to live in consultationwith other leaders.
Help me think through what arethe impacts of this, and we can
(10:33):
either be the guys that push youout of the nest or we can be
the guys that hold back thereins a little bit and say wait
a minute, I think you're gettinga little too out in front of
yourself.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Absolutely, and I think situation dependent, like
if there is product launch, wecan talk about that.
But there's other situationswhere all gas and no break is
not advised.
And I think you talked aboutlike when a leader comes into a
situation so maybe they've beenbrought in as a change engine.
So it's like, hey, things arenot going well here, can you
come in and help us make senseof this?
So a leader comes in and youknow we've heard really good
(11:03):
advice and wisdom from otherleaders it's like, hey, when you
get into a new organization,maybe there's been some crisis
in the organization, maybethings have not gone well.
Before you make any moves,before you move the chess pieces
, just sit and watch, don't makea lot of changes just yet.
See, okay, let's just let meevaluate what's going on here
and that evaluation period.
You know five years is way toomuch, ten years maybe a little
(11:26):
too much, but One month is notenough either.
So there's probably some wisdomand discernment saying when I
get into a new situation, I'mnot going to be action biased,
to like change out the team, donew products, do new website,
all that stuff.
It's like no, let's see what wehave here first.
And obviously there's financialpressures if a company's not
doing well and you gosh, we gotto cut some weight and we got to
(11:46):
move forward, we got to get theP&L looking right.
Those things determine anddirect those decisions.
But I think, all things beingequal, if you've got time,
assess what's going on.
So, before you put your foot onthe gas, slow down, talk to
people who have been in theorganization for a long time.
Tell me how we got here, like,tell me your story.
Like, what do you love aboutworking here?
What's been the tough part bythis last season?
And try to understand what'sgoing on in that organization
(12:09):
before you start to make a lotof detrimental decisions.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
And I would say, a majority of the time, what you
just said is the case.
Yeah, that's the that's themore often than not, what you're
coming in to do is not it's notcritical Like you need to come
in and you need to have a lot ofcoffees and lunches and
one-on-ones and hear people'sstories and you know, really get
to know and care and love thepeople and then start, you know,
(12:32):
to observe, to watch all thatkind of stuff.
And then I would say so I thinkprobably eight out of 10 times
that's the case Like that's whatneeds to happen.
Go going slower, you're goingto have time to throttle down at
some point, but but now you'llhave people, they'll have your
back, they'll be on board withit.
Right, you start having thoseconversations.
The next thing I would say iswhen it is time to spring into
(12:54):
action.
I think it's.
It's imperative, as much as youpossibly can, to let your team
and let your people know whereyou're going and why.
And the last thing you want todo is to be a leader that is
holding the cards too close totheir, their chest right, A
leader that has a secretplaybook but they're not letting
people know what it is.
(13:15):
No, and I we talked about thisbefore in an earlier episode
there's times where it's notappropriate yet to let people
know where they're at, but atthe same time, when it is time
to make some changes, I wouldsay get up and clearly
communicate where you're going,the why behind it, what you need
from these people you know.
Give them.
Give them the opportunity to beadults and to self-select
(13:35):
whether or not they want to beon board.
They want to go do somethingelse.
I mean, I think if you treatpeople with that kind of respect
, they'll in return, and youdon't have to make it emotional.
It's just like, hey, here'ssome changes that have to be
made, here's why they're goingto be made, here's what I need
from you in this.
There's some goals based onthat, and now let them
self-select.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Well, back to the analogy of a car Like.
That's so good, drew, what youjust said.
Thank you for saying that youhave a gas and a break, right.
It requires both to be ahealthy system, right.
The car works, it operates bestwhen you've got a gas and a
break.
And so I think, two words forevery leader to grow, to become
better at knowing when do Iapply gas, when do I apply
brakes.
(14:13):
You know, a car is not meant tostay in a parking space, it is
meant to be activated and goingsomewhere.
It has a direction, it has apoint, it is taking its
passengers somewhere.
Every good organization, everygood leader is taking some
places from somebody from pointA to point B.
So the gas is probably mostappropriate most of the time,
but the healthy amount of breakto get around curves, to get
(14:34):
downhills, all that other stuff,right.
So I think my leaning towardsaction, my leanings towards like
, let's make activity happen, isbecause we need to take people
from point A to point B.
But two words I think everyleader needs to grow in it's
wisdom and courage.
It's for people who are justlike man my foot's on the gas
all the time I've got to grow onmy wisdom to know when to let
(14:55):
off the accelerator and pump thebrakes a little bit.
And for people whose foot isjust on the brake and they're
scared to get going, you've gotto find some courage, and I
think the best leaders Ifthey're so courageous that they
can't ever think about slowingdown.
Find an operator, a number two,someone who can be your brakes
right higher for your weakness.
(15:16):
If you're a person whose foot'son the brakes and you're not
sure what to do, put someonearound you who's a gas pedal
leader.
We got to go, let's go, let'sget going.
And so, even if you can't findthat balance in yourself, put
the balance around your table.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
I really don't hardly want to add to that because I
think that's great wisdom andcourage.
But I do want to follow up withone quick question for the
leaders listening what are sometools that you found that help
you know whether you're a gaslike?
Maybe you instinctively know,but are there tools that leaders
can use to kind of know wherethey're at on that, on that gas
brake spectrum?
Speaker 1 (15:48):
And so I would say it's seasonal.
So for me, I'm a gas leader,but when things get unclear, my
anxiety rises.
I'm not sure what I should donext.
I become more brake than I'mlike, healthy and comfortable
with, and so I think it'srecognizing in yourself like
I've got a bias.
I would prefer to make thingshappen rather than sit back and
watch.
That's going to be prettyobvious for most leaders.
But I think no one's brakes allthe time and no one's gas all
(16:13):
the time, and I think thecircumstances really dictate
that for me.
Like I said.
But growing in courage issometimes you have to ask people
like hey, will you hold meaccountable to this?
I've got to make morecourageous decisions in my life.
I need more discipline.
I need to get out of bed everyday and go, fight and kill and
bring something back to the caveand feed and provide for my
(16:34):
family.
I need some help to be morecourageous to make those
decisions, and I think someonewho's you know needs more
patience and needs to slow downon her life needs accountability
for that too.
Like, hey, will you help me?
Like I'm making decisions sofast that I can't even implement
the last one I just decidedExactly.
Will you slow me down enough sothat I can be thorough?
Yes, I can be, you know,complete and actually get
(16:54):
something across the finish line.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
I love that wisdom and courage and I think even
discernment as a leader in yourinstincts, your gut instincts we
talked about this on a previousepisode that your gut as a
leader.
You don't have to feel pressurefor your gut to be right all
the time.
You know, and I think just toreiterate what you said, have
people around you that you'rebouncing this stuff off of,
don't feel pressure to be.
(17:16):
Have these great instincts as aleader and you've got to rely
on those alone.
Trust, you know you trust them,but it bouts off.
But I love that man.
I think that's probably a greatplace to wrap.
I've got one more thing.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Do you, okay, bring it.
Be like Chris Nichols, be theeternal optimist and send us
your questions for episodes.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Honestly, we did appreciate that.
First of all, we appreciatethem listening, but then also
giving us a topic and, yeah, belike Chris Nichols Maybe we'll
have them on one day.
We'll see what would that belike Intense, I would all.
I would spend the whole episodetrying to get you guys into
some sort of debate or argument.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
That would be do it.
It would be that hard.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
All right, thanks for that.
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