April 9, 2024 • 26 mins
It's almost impossible to keep up with how quickly things change in marketing. Between the ever evolving technology and strategies, it's easy to get lost trying to stay current. But, there's one marketing principle that never changes - telling great stories. On today's episode Drew helps business owners understand the steps they have to take to become better story tellers and how they can better market their business.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
jacket.
You know what's called.
It's not a shirt it's not ajacket, it's a jacket have you
ever now?
What word do you use now?
But I will now.
It's a corduroy man.
Remember that teddy ruxpindidn't?
He wear a corduroy jacket.
I did not expect you to sayTeddy Ruxpin.
(00:28):
God, I haven't heard TeddyRuxpin a long time.
You're missing, bro.
You gotta, you gotta, dig deepin the well for those things.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
This is what I love about you is your mind goes
places where I'm just like TeddyRuxpin.
That's great.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
So, um, drew, I hear this statement sometimes where
people say I don't even knowwhat they teach kids in a
marketing class anymore, like,if you're taking marketing in
college, obviously there's somefoundational principles you
learn, but the technology andthe strategies change so often,
and so what I'd love to talkabout today is, like how do we
deliver some value to the peoplethat listen to the podcast?
(01:03):
To give them maybe, like what'sthe current state of marketing
and what are those tried andtrue principles that, no matter
what the strategy really is,that they outlast what those
strategies look like?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, I mean, you raise a great point.
It's like when I'm talking topeople about marketing, I don't
really care so much about whatthey know or have learned or
what they've done before.
If they can't tell me whatthey're doing and what's next,
then marketing has alreadypassed them by wow okay.
So if you don't have the kind ofpersonality which I love, I
mean you know me, I love to beon the kind of bleeding edge of
(01:34):
things, front edge, so like Iget real excited about change
and new and different.
If you're the type of personthat just wants to like here's
the way we've always done it andjust lock in, like, especially
in like the digital world,social media world and with ai
now here to stay, I mean there'sjust you gotta have to, you
have to be on the bleeding edgeor know someone who is to do
that.
Um, but I would say, like thefunny thing about marketing is I
(01:57):
actually hate marketing.
Okay, it's why I do it, becauseI hate it.
I hate the way it's been donebefore, like there's, so there's
there's such bad marketing outthere and like I love good
storytelling, which for me, thatis all that marketing is is
great storytelling.
It's great, but I hate the thecheesy, cliche marketing side of
(02:20):
things.
And so when I'm working with,with, with companies,
organizations, whatever, whatI'm really mining for is story.
Like I want, I want that brand,that company, to tell the why
behind what they're doing, andso that's what I love to do.
I love to help shape um, justthe, the storytelling aspect of
what they're doing and I have togive it, before we go too far,
(02:40):
I have to give a shout out tojust Don Miller, and story brand
has been a great mentor andteacher for me.
Um went through being certifiedthrough their program and so,
just on the front end, a lot ofwhat I'll say today is credit to
them, because Don reallybrought to life this, this
ancient storytelling modality.
(03:01):
He just kind of put some cleverhandles on it but it's not
really his idea, but he, he, hebrought it to life.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
He packaged it in a way that I'm not a marketing
person.
I mean, the last time I thoughtabout marketing was in a
marketing class, you know in2003.
Yeah, and when they releasedthe story brand framework, I was
like, oh, this actually mattersand this is different than
anything I've ever been taughtabout this before.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
And we have.
We had friends in theorganization when it was just
just coming up, right before,even before the book released or
anything.
And I remember we were anorganization that was going
through a really tough time withour identity and who we are and
what's our brand and all thatkind of stuff.
And we brought in a friend, aconsultant, to come in and kind
of help us think through thisstuff and I fell in love with it
(03:44):
.
To come in and kind of help usthink through this stuff and I
fell in love with it.
And at that time, you know, ourwhole team was kind of
responsible for the branding,but I knew to to execute that
and to lead it out.
That was going to be myresponsibility long-term.
And so instead of hiring aconsultant to come in and work
it, I went to our team and said,hey, would you allow me to get
certified in this so that I canimplement it.
And that was kind of thebeginning of that, of that
(04:06):
journey for me, of of I hadalways a music.
Music was and you know, similarto you, music was our
background and I kind of gotburned with that, wasn't doing
that as much.
And and also when you come tonashville and you're a musician
like everyone in the room isbetter than you, yeah so I'm
just like all right, and I justfell in love with storytelling
and marketing, and so that's abig part of what we do For
(04:27):
people that are uninitiated.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
give us the high-level look at StoryBrand
and why that marketing frameworkseems to work so well for you.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yeah, I mean, I think the big idea of StoryBrand is
most companies make themselvesthe hero of the story, which
makes sense.
We want to talk about ourproduct, our service, what we do
, why it's the best, why we'rethe greatest, all those things.
And really it's not until weget to um empathy and authority,
(04:55):
it's not until we get to beingthe guide, as Don would say.
We make the customer the heroof the story.
Um, that's kind of the the, thebig shift in in mentality, once
you start seeing that you can'thardly go by a billboard or you
can't see any marketing anyother way but through that lens,
and then you start wrecking.
I remember, right after I gotcertified, I was sitting in a at
the Franklin parade and thesetrucks were coming by and I was
(05:17):
seeing all these marketingmessages on these.
You know the cars that arecarrying the you know, whatever,
and one after one, I just everysingle one had a message on
there that made themselves thehero.
Yeah, and I couldn't unsee itanymore.
I was like my gosh, like wedon't realize that we think
we're, you know, doing the rightthing by talking about
ourselves.
(05:37):
We realize that we're missingthe point to solve a problem.
And I think that's, you know,kind of the heartbeat of what I
love to do with organizations iscome in and help them.
Look at who is the actual heroof your story, um, what problem
do you solve for them?
And uh, and we kind of go fromthere, we dig a little deeper.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Well, what are some brands that have nailed this
framework really well?
And I will say like, yeah,let's just.
I could just answer thatquestion before I jump into the
next thing I mean, my, this isgonna be really cliche answer.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
You kind of teed me up.
I wish I had some like, reallylike esoteric yeah just some.
But I mean, the reason why weknow and love these brands is
for this reason.
But I think about apple, Ithink about nike, I think about
disney.
Those are some brands that Ilove to follow.
Yeah, they're greatstorytellers.
They don't lead with theirproduct first, they lead with
how they make you feel right.
And so this is really the firstpart of that story.
(06:30):
Brand framework is when you'relooking at the problem that your
hero has, you're looking atfirst.
The external issue is, you know, I need a pair of shoes, I need
a new computer or whatever.
That's your external issue.
But nobody buys external, theyonly buy internal and
philosophical Right.
And so if you can get to thephilosophical like why do I
(06:51):
deserve for this problem to besolved, then you've got a
customer for life Right.
And so if, if we can helpcompanies dig deeper below, not
just what you offer, but howdoes that that, how does that
problem make your customer feelright, that's going to be your
internal issue.
Like I feel lost in buying a newcomputer.
(07:12):
I feel like you know, nike'sgreat about making you kind of
feel like, hey, I've got thisaspirational idea for myself of
being healthy and being fit andbeing a runner.
So I either feel like thenegative side of it is I either
feel out of shape, I feel and ifI get these pair of Nike shoes,
I'm going to, you know feellike I'm a winner.
They do great with that andthen, ultimately, the
(07:33):
philosophical thing.
So when I'm working withcompanies and brands, the very
first thing we do is we diveinto those three things.
Okay, how can we reshape?
Because this is going to informeverything.
This is going to inform yourone liner, your mission
statement.
Everything is going to come outof.
What is the philosophicalproblem?
That, um, that you solve foryour, for your customers, great.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
And so this isn't just for the Nikes and targets
and Disney's of the world, likereally practical businesses, can
have a marketing message likethis.
So, let's, let's take, um,let's take something kind of
basic.
Um, let's, let's do aconstruction company.
Yeah, why, why do they need tohave a story brand framework for
their marketing messages?
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, and we, we work with a great client.
Shout out to Josh, he listensand we love Josh.
And Stellan Owen is a greatconstruction company in town
here to give them a littleshameless plug.
But they do high-end remodelsand builds all in the Nashville
area and you were doing like aStrat Op, kind of like Fraction
X does these off-site things.
(08:34):
You were doing one of those forthem and you invited me to come
in the last hour of the day andI fell in love with the people
of this company.
I mean some really great peoplewho really cared about what
they do, really cared abouttheir customers.
Um, but instead of saying hey,we do great high-end remodel
work, you know, or whatever itmight be, we just started
thinking and talking differentlyabout, well, what is the
(08:56):
problem that we could solve forour customers?
And we started thinking aboutpeople's homes and what a home
represents and what a homeshould be.
This is the philosophical thing, like.
I feel like I deserve to comehome after a long day at work
and have a place of peace andhave a place of joy or have a
place where I can gather myfriends and my the villain of my
(09:16):
story, if you will in theircase, might be a space that is
not designed well, a space thatdoesn't fit my needs, a space
that doesn't fit my growingfamily.
Maybe some of the fears or theproblems is I can't afford to
move in this Nashville market.
I can't afford to start over.
But I'm kind of in this home orI love my home.
I just I need to tweak somethings.
What Stellan Owen can do is theycan come in and really help on
(09:39):
a philosophical level, you know,provide a place for you.
And we just actually did atestimonial with a client and
they're redoing their kitchen upin Gallatin and I love the
story that they told becausethey've got grown kids and they
said every time our kids come tothe house, for some reason we
always congregate in the kitchen.
I don't know why.
(10:00):
He's like I wish they would goto the living room, the kitchen,
but it's too small.
And so what Josh did at StellanOwen is he sat down and he
listened to them.
Right, he listened to theproblem that he could solve.
And the reason why Stellan Owenlanded that client was and they
said this in the interview youlisten to us, you heard the
problem to solve.
And then this guy would say man, I just picture my future
(10:22):
grandkids sitting at this tablewith me coloring.
And when he said that I waslike that's it.
It's not about a beautiful newkitchen, it's about I deserve I
should have a place where Icould sit with my grandkids and
color in my kitchen.
That is a quality of life thingthat now Stellan Owen is
providing and you know they'vegot a customer for life in these
(10:43):
people because they met thatproblem.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
That's great.
So what are some of those?
You talked about the voice ofempathy and what was the other
voice of position Authorityright?
Speaker 2 (10:52):
So there is an appropriate time to talk about
yourself, but it's just notuntil like third and fourth down
in that story brand framework.
Because you're going to startwith character transformation,
like where do you want thatcharacter to go?
We're starting all the way tothe end.
Then character transformationlike where do you want that
character to go, when they'restarting all the way to the end?
Okay, then you're going to diginto what does the character
want.
You're going to get into theproblem that you're solving
external, internal,philosophical and then they're
going to meet a guide and that'swhere we come in.
(11:14):
And the guide is is the mostpowerful person in the story?
Like, yeah, yoda is the mostpowerful person in star wars?
Right, the, the hero of the itwas, was um, his name's luke
skywalker, jude, you're gonnaget crucified for this one I
should edit that out.
I don't know why I couldn'tthink of luke skywalker I was
thinking I'm not even tellingyou what I was thinking it gets
(11:36):
worse, but no, yoda is morepowerful actually, but he is
guiding.
I was gonna call him john lukeskywalker, john mark mcskywalker
.
Yoda is more powerful actually,but he is guiding.
I was going to call him JohnLuke Skywalker.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
John Mark Skywalker.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Literally one person might understand that reference.
Again, this is why I love howyour brain works.
It's so random, but anyways.
So we get to be the guide inthe story.
When they're working with ourbrain, that really got me,
that's good.
So when they, when we finallyget to that point of the um of
(12:10):
the process, the two things weget to show is authority and
empathy, which is literally justauthorities.
Here's what we've seen.
We've been doing this for awhile.
We've seen that when peoplework with us, they get X factors
.
So this is your testimonials,this is um, you know, you just
being able to kind of the flex alittle bit on how you've been
able to serve and support otherpeople.
The empathy part is weunderstand, we get it Like.
(12:33):
One of the most powerful thingsthat you can do is attune to
somebody else to say my story isyour story.
Like and this isn't not just amarketing, this is an all walks
of life when you can attune tosomebody and say, man, that must
be tough, I get that or Iunderstand what you're walking
through, or we've been there too.
Whatever, that is when we get totalk about ourselves, but
that's really the only time inthe whole marketing message that
(12:56):
we talk about ourselves.
It's only go ahead.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
The fatal flaw has to be for most companies they lead
with authority.
We're the biggest in our marketshare area for this type of
business.
Hey, we've signed the mostclients out of everybody.
Like they lead with authority,and so is it just harder for
potential people to seethemselves in the story.
Because you're, you start withthe authority.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
I think so.
I think we're.
We're so close to what we dothat it becomes our baby, and so
we just want to talk about ourbaby all the time.
And you know it's like that.
No one thinks your baby's ascute as what you do, right?
And so I think it's just aharmless mistake that most
companies fall into.
It's like I want to talk aboutyou know, my product, my service
or whatever, and most peopleare thinking, great, well, I
(13:39):
guess I'll call you when I needyou, as opposed to when you
start with a problem.
A lot of times, especially inmarketing, unless someone is
like a really warm lead, a lotof times when you start with a
problem, you gain a customerthat didn't even know they were
looking for what you wereoffering.
And we talk about this a lot inthe elevator pitch Once you get
through your story brand, yourwhole process, and you get your
(14:02):
brand script down that's whatit's called Then you can really
start to hone in your elevatorpitch and that is how you talk
about your, your business, whenyou're out in public.
You know, and that is justproblem solution success.
You're, but again, unless youwork the whole process, you're
not going to be able to knowwhat those, those things are.
And so if someone meets you inpublic and I'm going to put you
(14:27):
on the spot because you did thisrecently, okay, remember, you
were telling me about it.
No, so you did problem solutionsuccess.
Let me see if I can bring thisback.
Someone asked you about whatyou did.
Okay, yeah, do you remember?
Am I?
Speaker 1 (14:38):
jogging your memory yet, yeah, something like.
Yeah, I think I did it on thefly.
It's like do you ever like?
Do you know any leaders orpeople that own businesses that
are just like stressed and tiredand they want their business to
grow but they feel stuck?
Well, I run a company thathelps come alongside leaders to
improve their lives, make betterdecisions and strategically
grow where they really want togrow.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Yeah, yeah, it's perfect, and so that's for us at
Fraction X.
No-transcript.
(15:33):
What we've seen this is success.
Yeah, what we've seen theleaders that partner with
fraction x.
They're able to hit their goals.
They feel less alone, whatever.
We can go through a wholeelevator pitch and never even
mentioned our name, yeah, andpotentially have a client who's
interested in us, as opposed tosaying, well, I do leadership
consulting, okay, well, next,yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
What does that even mean Exactly?
Right, that's good.
Well, I experienced a littlebit of the like, the philosophy
you talked about.
The philosophical problem is mywife had a meeting last night,
and so it was me and my girlsand I was like, okay, it's dad
dinner night and I can cook acouple of things, but every once
in a while I'll just kind ofrun out of ideas.
I was like, let's go toChick-fil-A.
And so I went to Chick-fil-A tobring them some food and they
were like, dad, thank you forbringing us Chick-fil-A.
(16:14):
Like I got to be the hero inthe story, but really
Chick-fil-A is a littlehealthier than McDonald's.
So I feel like I'm I'm winningthere.
It's a values driven company.
It's like, okay, yeah, they,they do some good with their.
You know, we know people thatlead in that organization and we
know they have a greatleadership philosophy.
(16:36):
So I felt good supporting them.
My kids were happy that we hadit and I was like, okay, yeah,
their food.
And somehow my kids thought Iwas the hero of that story,
perfect.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
And I was like that's that's story brand, because
chick-fil-a is all about how itmakes you feel yeah, right, like
you, just it.
Even the way that people treatyou there, the culture of the
place.
You, you feel it.
You feel so much different in achick-fil-a drive-thru than you
do in a mcdonald's 100.
You just feel like you're in amcdonald's drive-thru.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
You're like covering your face and hope people don't
see you there and you just likeso much shame in that drive-thru
and I always embarrass my kidsbecause I like to talk to the,
the kids taking your order inline, and it was a little chilly
last night and kid had a jacket.
I was like hey, like how longyou been out here?
She's like an hour.
I was like whoa, like she's likeno, I can go anytime I want to,
like I feel okay, and therejust wasn't any frustration,
(17:25):
there wasn't entitlement.
She was in the cold takingpeople's orders in a line in a
fast food restaurant and had asmile on her face and was happy
to be there.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
They treat people well, especially young, I mean.
It's a great organization foryoung people to be 100% the
plans they put together.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
So I felt good about being a customer last night.
You were the hero.
Yeah, kids, that's right.
So say you walk a potentialclient through some of this
framework, yeah, okay.
So now, now we've got the story, we've made our you know, our
customer is now the hero oftheir journey and we're just
guiding them to better results.
What do you do next?
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's all about now that, once
you have your story kind ofoutlined, it's about about now
how are you going to tell yourstory right?
And so you know the way thatpeople are doing that these days
.
Whether you love it or or hateit, it's through social media,
right, digital media is the waywe tell our story and I try to
talk to our brand and say listen, we're not filmmakers, we're
not movie makers here.
We're not trying to make afeature film, we're not going to
spend a bunch of money, do aone-time thing and then just let
(18:23):
it sit there in the archive.
We're, we're in a newsroom likewe want to be telling these
stories every day.
We want to be shown up everyday, which is it can be daunting
for for leaders, which is a bigpart of of what my business
does with.
We have a business calledamplify.
My wife and I and we we justhelp, uh, companies and leaders
tell stories every day, show upin their feeds every day and um,
(18:43):
so yeah, that would be.
The next step is to take.
So what I do is I take thatstory brand script.
We actually craft contentaround those ideas.
So a part of empathy in theprocess is helping alleviate the
fears that your customer has ofdoing business with you, right,
and so you can make a list of20 things, right?
(19:05):
Well, that's 20 pieces ofcontent that you can tell in 30
seconds, 45 seconds, that place,and you can just kind of read
you know, go through those everymonth, every year, you know,
kind of revisit those, repackageand reskin them.
But this is the core of yourcontent and what I love about in
today's culture.
In some ways, the more and Iknow, organic is a buzzword, but
(19:25):
basically we're just saying themore real, the more authentic,
the more believable it is, thebetter it's going to work, right
.
So you looking down a cameraand presenting something and
it's real, polished people like,okay, you worked on that, you
produced it, yeah, but someonejust telling their story to a
phone and putting it out there.
And I'm not saying, put out lowquality stuff, I'm just saying
(19:45):
you don't have to spend tons ofmoney on production, you don't
have to spend tons of time.
I mean even the way we workwith our clients.
We're like, hey, if you give usa few hours a month, we can
come in, we can grab the contentfor you, we can post it for you
, we can show up, we can engage,we can do all that stuff.
But your story needs to be toldconsistently.
Some would say every day, twotimes a day.
There's that school of thought.
(20:06):
I'm more in like, hey, justjust showing up consistently,
even if it's three times a week,you know, is better than just,
hey, we're going to put a bunchof stuff out there and then let
it sit.
No, you gotta you know, yougotta show up, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
So with with social media is there?
Is it trying to turn acommunity of people into
potential clients, like.
So we're taking this frameworkand turning it into some pieces
of content that show up everyday, like what's, what's the
next target after that?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah, I think it's a little bit of both.
I like to think of social mediamore nurturing you know, and it
.
It really depends on your brand,right?
Your?
It depends on what your productis.
Is it you're going afterquantity, right?
Like you're going after?
You know?
I think about, like, selling aproduct where it's like, hey, we
just need to turn as many ofthese products as we can, right?
Or is it big projects yeah, youknow, we mentioned stella, no,
(20:55):
and it's like, hey, they're notgoing to necessarily close a
client every day.
I mean they yeah they'd love to,but I'm just saying they're.
They're going after big, bigclients, right, these are people
that are doing big remodels ornew home builds or whatever, and
so there's more of a nurturingthat happens so that when a
customer needs us, they knowwhere to find us.
Okay, that's good.
So that's true in our emailcampaigns, that's true with
(21:17):
whatever lead generators.
We do A lot of marketing.
Digital marketing today is youdo something, you see what works
and you pour gas on it.
Okay, right, where?
In the past, it was like we'regoing to take this risk, we're
going to put this big budgettogether, do this big campaign,
go board commercials, yeah, andthen we're going to launch it
and we're gosh, I hope it works.
We put a lot of money into it.
Now it's more about we're goingto show up consistently and
(21:40):
then we're going to see whattakes off.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
And then we might, might even pull that back,
reskin it a little bit work onit and put it back out there, or
we may just put a little bit ofmoney in target market behind a
post.
Is that like the idea of microcontent?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
where it's like a smaller piece that if it starts
to work, yeah, okay, yeah, forwhatever reason, the hook on
that piece, the title on it, thecopy, the video, the
storytelling, for whateverreason, it just it's working.
You know, and I would just bereally um careful for any
marketer or any social mediaperson that comes in with too
much confidence, knowing exact,they know exactly what to do to
make you go viral.
Yeah, that's just not true.
(22:16):
That's just there's too muchand there's not.
When they talk about thealgorithm, it's not even.
It's not one algorithm, it'smultiple algorithms, multiple
things, and so it's almost.
I'm not going to say it'simpossible, but it's really hard
to promise and guarantee that acertain post, if we do this,
that the other is going to goviral, viral.
Usually it surprises you whathits and what works, but for me
(22:38):
that's the adventure of it.
Okay, I love that part of itbecause I'm like, okay, well,
let's try a bunch of things.
And then we look back at it.
We're like, oh my gosh, thisone took off.
What is it about this one thatmade it work?
And then you kind back at it.
We're like, oh my gosh, thisone took off.
What is it about this one thatmade it work, and then you kind
of dissect it and you do more ofthe same and then you know
that's part of it that Iactually love.
And so, yeah, I think the microcontent showing up every day, I
(22:59):
think taking the pressure offthat we've got to, you know, put
together this really high,polished high.
You know, it's not about that.
It's about allowing yourself toempathize with your customer,
alleviate their fears and justshow up with your story, your
personal story, why you do whatyou do, that's great.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
So maybe just last question here.
So if you're sitting with abusiness leader, someone who's
running a company, who's neverreally spent money on marketing
before, what's the best way toget started in trying to better
market your product or yourservice?
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Yeah, I mean that's a great question.
I think marketing is one thingthat it's.
It's one of those things thatit can be tough to spend money
on, right, like you're like manand you really want ROI from it,
which I get.
It's like, hey, if I spend thisamount, I got to make more than
this amount for it to makesense, right?
So I get that it's tough.
And the challenge is like with,especially with social media,
(23:52):
you gotta, you gotta be willingto commit to it for a certain
period of time.
You're not, it's not just goingto happen overnight.
Um, but I would say you, youcan start small.
You don't have to start withmassive contracts or massive
whatever.
You can start with.
Hey, I'm going to take the next90 days and we're going to try
some things, I'm going to shootsome reels, I'm going to put
some stuff out there, I'm goingto see what's working.
(24:14):
The great thing about socialmedia today is, you know,
there's there's analytics outthere now that show you exactly
what's working, what's notworking, and so it's not a
guessing game.
You know, I can work with aclient and show them exactly how
many people, through one adthat I send them to their
website, that click, what linkthat took what action, and so I
can show them and we can makedecisions based on that, because
(24:37):
I had one client that we senttons of people to their store
but they weren't buying, whichthat tells us a story, right?
It's like they're showing up.
Someone walked into yourphysical store and you had 300
people walk through your storein one day and no one bought
your product.
That's a problem.
That's a problem, but it's alsotelling you something, right?
So now you've got to evaluateis there something with my
product?
(24:58):
Is there something with myprice point?
But those are all factors thatwe can tweak and adjust.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
So marketing can be a bit of discovery on some level,
because you go, oh well, what'snot, this isn't working, and
marketing to show me why that'snot working.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
And nine times out of 10, because we're so close to
our business as business leaders.
What we think will work doesn't, and what we think doesn't work
does.
I mean that's just the way itworks, right.
We come in and we say hey, thisis how it.
And it's what we're mostexcited.
(25:32):
It's not a you know.
That's why most all of our workis all retainer work because
contract yeah, there's nothingwe're going to be able to do,
but hire us to bring us in, doyou know?
A few hours post some reels.
It's like, okay, that's great,but this is something that we
have to nurture and look at overthe long run.
jacket.
You know what's called.
It's not a shirt it's not ajacket, it's a jacket have you
ever now?
What word do you use now?
But I will now.
It's a corduroy man.
Remember that teddy ruxpindidn't?
He wear a corduroy jacket.
I did not expect you to sayTeddy Ruxpin.
(00:28):
God, I haven't heard TeddyRuxpin a long time.
You're missing, bro.
You gotta, you gotta, dig deepin the well for those things.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
This is what I love about you is your mind goes
places where I'm just like TeddyRuxpin.
That's great.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
So, um, drew, I hear this statement sometimes where
people say I don't even knowwhat they teach kids in a
marketing class anymore, like,if you're taking marketing in
college, obviously there's somefoundational principles you
learn, but the technology andthe strategies change so often,
and so what I'd love to talkabout today is, like how do we
deliver some value to the peoplethat listen to the podcast?
(01:03):
To give them maybe, like what'sthe current state of marketing
and what are those tried andtrue principles that, no matter
what the strategy really is,that they outlast what those
strategies look like?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, I mean, you raise a great point.
It's like when I'm talking topeople about marketing, I don't
really care so much about whatthey know or have learned or
what they've done before.
If they can't tell me whatthey're doing and what's next,
then marketing has alreadypassed them by wow okay.
So if you don't have the kind ofpersonality which I love, I
mean you know me, I love to beon the kind of bleeding edge of
(01:34):
things, front edge, so like Iget real excited about change
and new and different.
If you're the type of personthat just wants to like here's
the way we've always done it andjust lock in, like, especially
in like the digital world,social media world and with ai
now here to stay, I mean there'sjust you gotta have to, you
have to be on the bleeding edgeor know someone who is to do
that.
Um, but I would say, like thefunny thing about marketing is I
(01:57):
actually hate marketing.
Okay, it's why I do it, becauseI hate it.
I hate the way it's been donebefore, like there's, so there's
there's such bad marketing outthere and like I love good
storytelling, which for me, thatis all that marketing is is
great storytelling.
It's great, but I hate the thecheesy, cliche marketing side of
(02:20):
things.
And so when I'm working with,with, with companies,
organizations, whatever, whatI'm really mining for is story.
Like I want, I want that brand,that company, to tell the why
behind what they're doing, andso that's what I love to do.
I love to help shape um, justthe, the storytelling aspect of
what they're doing and I have togive it, before we go too far,
(02:40):
I have to give a shout out tojust Don Miller, and story brand
has been a great mentor andteacher for me.
Um went through being certifiedthrough their program and so,
just on the front end, a lot ofwhat I'll say today is credit to
them, because Don reallybrought to life this, this
ancient storytelling modality.
(03:01):
He just kind of put some cleverhandles on it but it's not
really his idea, but he, he, hebrought it to life.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
He packaged it in a way that I'm not a marketing
person.
I mean, the last time I thoughtabout marketing was in a
marketing class, you know in2003.
Yeah, and when they releasedthe story brand framework, I was
like, oh, this actually mattersand this is different than
anything I've ever been taughtabout this before.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
And we have.
We had friends in theorganization when it was just
just coming up, right before,even before the book released or
anything.
And I remember we were anorganization that was going
through a really tough time withour identity and who we are and
what's our brand and all thatkind of stuff.
And we brought in a friend, aconsultant, to come in and kind
of help us think through thisstuff and I fell in love with it
(03:44):
.
To come in and kind of help usthink through this stuff and I
fell in love with it.
And at that time, you know, ourwhole team was kind of
responsible for the branding,but I knew to to execute that
and to lead it out.
That was going to be myresponsibility long-term.
And so instead of hiring aconsultant to come in and work
it, I went to our team and said,hey, would you allow me to get
certified in this so that I canimplement it.
And that was kind of thebeginning of that, of that
(04:06):
journey for me, of of I hadalways a music.
Music was and you know, similarto you, music was our
background and I kind of gotburned with that, wasn't doing
that as much.
And and also when you come tonashville and you're a musician
like everyone in the room isbetter than you, yeah so I'm
just like all right, and I justfell in love with storytelling
and marketing, and so that's abig part of what we do For
(04:27):
people that are uninitiated.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
give us the high-level look at StoryBrand
and why that marketing frameworkseems to work so well for you.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yeah, I mean, I think the big idea of StoryBrand is
most companies make themselvesthe hero of the story, which
makes sense.
We want to talk about ourproduct, our service, what we do
, why it's the best, why we'rethe greatest, all those things.
And really it's not until weget to um empathy and authority,
(04:55):
it's not until we get to beingthe guide, as Don would say.
We make the customer the heroof the story.
Um, that's kind of the the, thebig shift in in mentality, once
you start seeing that you can'thardly go by a billboard or you
can't see any marketing anyother way but through that lens,
and then you start wrecking.
I remember, right after I gotcertified, I was sitting in a at
the Franklin parade and thesetrucks were coming by and I was
(05:17):
seeing all these marketingmessages on these.
You know the cars that arecarrying the you know, whatever,
and one after one, I just everysingle one had a message on
there that made themselves thehero.
Yeah, and I couldn't unsee itanymore.
I was like my gosh, like wedon't realize that we think
we're, you know, doing the rightthing by talking about
ourselves.
(05:37):
We realize that we're missingthe point to solve a problem.
And I think that's, you know,kind of the heartbeat of what I
love to do with organizations iscome in and help them.
Look at who is the actual heroof your story, um, what problem
do you solve for them?
And uh, and we kind of go fromthere, we dig a little deeper.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Well, what are some brands that have nailed this
framework really well?
And I will say like, yeah,let's just.
I could just answer thatquestion before I jump into the
next thing I mean, my, this isgonna be really cliche answer.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
You kind of teed me up.
I wish I had some like, reallylike esoteric yeah just some.
But I mean, the reason why weknow and love these brands is
for this reason.
But I think about apple, Ithink about nike, I think about
disney.
Those are some brands that Ilove to follow.
Yeah, they're greatstorytellers.
They don't lead with theirproduct first, they lead with
how they make you feel right.
And so this is really the firstpart of that story.
(06:30):
Brand framework is when you'relooking at the problem that your
hero has, you're looking atfirst.
The external issue is, you know, I need a pair of shoes, I need
a new computer or whatever.
That's your external issue.
But nobody buys external, theyonly buy internal and
philosophical Right.
And so if you can get to thephilosophical like why do I
(06:51):
deserve for this problem to besolved, then you've got a
customer for life Right.
And so if, if we can helpcompanies dig deeper below, not
just what you offer, but howdoes that that, how does that
problem make your customer feelright, that's going to be your
internal issue.
Like I feel lost in buying a newcomputer.
(07:12):
I feel like you know, nike'sgreat about making you kind of
feel like, hey, I've got thisaspirational idea for myself of
being healthy and being fit andbeing a runner.
So I either feel like thenegative side of it is I either
feel out of shape, I feel and ifI get these pair of Nike shoes,
I'm going to, you know feellike I'm a winner.
They do great with that andthen, ultimately, the
(07:33):
philosophical thing.
So when I'm working withcompanies and brands, the very
first thing we do is we diveinto those three things.
Okay, how can we reshape?
Because this is going to informeverything.
This is going to inform yourone liner, your mission
statement.
Everything is going to come outof.
What is the philosophicalproblem?
That, um, that you solve foryour, for your customers, great.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
And so this isn't just for the Nikes and targets
and Disney's of the world, likereally practical businesses, can
have a marketing message likethis.
So, let's, let's take, um,let's take something kind of
basic.
Um, let's, let's do aconstruction company.
Yeah, why, why do they need tohave a story brand framework for
their marketing messages?
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, and we, we work with a great client.
Shout out to Josh, he listensand we love Josh.
And Stellan Owen is a greatconstruction company in town
here to give them a littleshameless plug.
But they do high-end remodelsand builds all in the Nashville
area and you were doing like aStrat Op, kind of like Fraction
X does these off-site things.
(08:34):
You were doing one of those forthem and you invited me to come
in the last hour of the day andI fell in love with the people
of this company.
I mean some really great peoplewho really cared about what
they do, really cared abouttheir customers.
Um, but instead of saying hey,we do great high-end remodel
work, you know, or whatever itmight be, we just started
thinking and talking differentlyabout, well, what is the
(08:56):
problem that we could solve forour customers?
And we started thinking aboutpeople's homes and what a home
represents and what a homeshould be.
This is the philosophical thing, like.
I feel like I deserve to comehome after a long day at work
and have a place of peace andhave a place of joy or have a
place where I can gather myfriends and my the villain of my
(09:16):
story, if you will in theircase, might be a space that is
not designed well, a space thatdoesn't fit my needs, a space
that doesn't fit my growingfamily.
Maybe some of the fears or theproblems is I can't afford to
move in this Nashville market.
I can't afford to start over.
But I'm kind of in this home orI love my home.
I just I need to tweak somethings.
What Stellan Owen can do is theycan come in and really help on
(09:39):
a philosophical level, you know,provide a place for you.
And we just actually did atestimonial with a client and
they're redoing their kitchen upin Gallatin and I love the
story that they told becausethey've got grown kids and they
said every time our kids come tothe house, for some reason we
always congregate in the kitchen.
I don't know why.
(10:00):
He's like I wish they would goto the living room, the kitchen,
but it's too small.
And so what Josh did at StellanOwen is he sat down and he
listened to them.
Right, he listened to theproblem that he could solve.
And the reason why Stellan Owenlanded that client was and they
said this in the interview youlisten to us, you heard the
problem to solve.
And then this guy would say man, I just picture my future
(10:22):
grandkids sitting at this tablewith me coloring.
And when he said that I waslike that's it.
It's not about a beautiful newkitchen, it's about I deserve I
should have a place where Icould sit with my grandkids and
color in my kitchen.
That is a quality of life thingthat now Stellan Owen is
providing and you know they'vegot a customer for life in these
(10:43):
people because they met thatproblem.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
That's great.
So what are some of those?
You talked about the voice ofempathy and what was the other
voice of position Authorityright?
Speaker 2 (10:52):
So there is an appropriate time to talk about
yourself, but it's just notuntil like third and fourth down
in that story brand framework.
Because you're going to startwith character transformation,
like where do you want thatcharacter to go?
We're starting all the way tothe end.
Then character transformationlike where do you want that
character to go, when they'restarting all the way to the end?
Okay, then you're going to diginto what does the character
want.
You're going to get into theproblem that you're solving
external, internal,philosophical and then they're
going to meet a guide and that'swhere we come in.
(11:14):
And the guide is is the mostpowerful person in the story?
Like, yeah, yoda is the mostpowerful person in star wars?
Right, the, the hero of the itwas, was um, his name's luke
skywalker, jude, you're gonnaget crucified for this one I
should edit that out.
I don't know why I couldn'tthink of luke skywalker I was
thinking I'm not even tellingyou what I was thinking it gets
(11:36):
worse, but no, yoda is morepowerful actually, but he is
guiding.
I was gonna call him john lukeskywalker, john mark mcskywalker
.
Yoda is more powerful actually,but he is guiding.
I was going to call him JohnLuke Skywalker.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
John Mark Skywalker.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Literally one person might understand that reference.
Again, this is why I love howyour brain works.
It's so random, but anyways.
So we get to be the guide inthe story.
When they're working with ourbrain, that really got me,
that's good.
So when they, when we finallyget to that point of the um of
(12:10):
the process, the two things weget to show is authority and
empathy, which is literally justauthorities.
Here's what we've seen.
We've been doing this for awhile.
We've seen that when peoplework with us, they get X factors
.
So this is your testimonials,this is um, you know, you just
being able to kind of the flex alittle bit on how you've been
able to serve and support otherpeople.
The empathy part is weunderstand, we get it Like.
(12:33):
One of the most powerful thingsthat you can do is attune to
somebody else to say my story isyour story.
Like and this isn't not just amarketing, this is an all walks
of life when you can attune tosomebody and say, man, that must
be tough, I get that or Iunderstand what you're walking
through, or we've been there too.
Whatever, that is when we get totalk about ourselves, but
that's really the only time inthe whole marketing message that
(12:56):
we talk about ourselves.
It's only go ahead.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
The fatal flaw has to be for most companies they lead
with authority.
We're the biggest in our marketshare area for this type of
business.
Hey, we've signed the mostclients out of everybody.
Like they lead with authority,and so is it just harder for
potential people to seethemselves in the story.
Because you're, you start withthe authority.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
I think so.
I think we're.
We're so close to what we dothat it becomes our baby, and so
we just want to talk about ourbaby all the time.
And you know it's like that.
No one thinks your baby's ascute as what you do, right?
And so I think it's just aharmless mistake that most
companies fall into.
It's like I want to talk aboutyou know, my product, my service
or whatever, and most peopleare thinking, great, well, I
(13:39):
guess I'll call you when I needyou, as opposed to when you
start with a problem.
A lot of times, especially inmarketing, unless someone is
like a really warm lead, a lotof times when you start with a
problem, you gain a customerthat didn't even know they were
looking for what you wereoffering.
And we talk about this a lot inthe elevator pitch Once you get
through your story brand, yourwhole process, and you get your
(14:02):
brand script down that's whatit's called Then you can really
start to hone in your elevatorpitch and that is how you talk
about your, your business, whenyou're out in public.
You know, and that is justproblem solution success.
You're, but again, unless youwork the whole process, you're
not going to be able to knowwhat those, those things are.
And so if someone meets you inpublic and I'm going to put you
(14:27):
on the spot because you did thisrecently, okay, remember, you
were telling me about it.
No, so you did problem solutionsuccess.
Let me see if I can bring thisback.
Someone asked you about whatyou did.
Okay, yeah, do you remember?
Am I?
Speaker 1 (14:38):
jogging your memory yet, yeah, something like.
Yeah, I think I did it on thefly.
It's like do you ever like?
Do you know any leaders orpeople that own businesses that
are just like stressed and tiredand they want their business to
grow but they feel stuck?
Well, I run a company thathelps come alongside leaders to
improve their lives, make betterdecisions and strategically
grow where they really want togrow.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Yeah, yeah, it's perfect, and so that's for us at
Fraction X.
No-transcript.
(15:33):
What we've seen this is success.
Yeah, what we've seen theleaders that partner with
fraction x.
They're able to hit their goals.
They feel less alone, whatever.
We can go through a wholeelevator pitch and never even
mentioned our name, yeah, andpotentially have a client who's
interested in us, as opposed tosaying, well, I do leadership
consulting, okay, well, next,yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
What does that even mean Exactly?
Right, that's good.
Well, I experienced a littlebit of the like, the philosophy
you talked about.
The philosophical problem is mywife had a meeting last night,
and so it was me and my girlsand I was like, okay, it's dad
dinner night and I can cook acouple of things, but every once
in a while I'll just kind ofrun out of ideas.
I was like, let's go toChick-fil-A.
And so I went to Chick-fil-A tobring them some food and they
were like, dad, thank you forbringing us Chick-fil-A.
(16:14):
Like I got to be the hero inthe story, but really
Chick-fil-A is a littlehealthier than McDonald's.
So I feel like I'm I'm winningthere.
It's a values driven company.
It's like, okay, yeah, they,they do some good with their.
You know, we know people thatlead in that organization and we
know they have a greatleadership philosophy.
(16:36):
So I felt good supporting them.
My kids were happy that we hadit and I was like, okay, yeah,
their food.
And somehow my kids thought Iwas the hero of that story,
perfect.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
And I was like that's that's story brand, because
chick-fil-a is all about how itmakes you feel yeah, right, like
you, just it.
Even the way that people treatyou there, the culture of the
place.
You, you feel it.
You feel so much different in achick-fil-a drive-thru than you
do in a mcdonald's 100.
You just feel like you're in amcdonald's drive-thru.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
You're like covering your face and hope people don't
see you there and you just likeso much shame in that drive-thru
and I always embarrass my kidsbecause I like to talk to the,
the kids taking your order inline, and it was a little chilly
last night and kid had a jacket.
I was like hey, like how longyou been out here?
She's like an hour.
I was like whoa, like she's likeno, I can go anytime I want to,
like I feel okay, and therejust wasn't any frustration,
(17:25):
there wasn't entitlement.
She was in the cold takingpeople's orders in a line in a
fast food restaurant and had asmile on her face and was happy
to be there.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
They treat people well, especially young, I mean.
It's a great organization foryoung people to be 100% the
plans they put together.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
So I felt good about being a customer last night.
You were the hero.
Yeah, kids, that's right.
So say you walk a potentialclient through some of this
framework, yeah, okay.
So now, now we've got the story, we've made our you know, our
customer is now the hero oftheir journey and we're just
guiding them to better results.
What do you do next?
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's all about now that, once
you have your story kind ofoutlined, it's about about now
how are you going to tell yourstory right?
And so you know the way thatpeople are doing that these days
.
Whether you love it or or hateit, it's through social media,
right, digital media is the waywe tell our story and I try to
talk to our brand and say listen, we're not filmmakers, we're
not movie makers here.
We're not trying to make afeature film, we're not going to
spend a bunch of money, do aone-time thing and then just let
(18:23):
it sit there in the archive.
We're, we're in a newsroom likewe want to be telling these
stories every day.
We want to be shown up everyday, which is it can be daunting
for for leaders, which is a bigpart of of what my business
does with.
We have a business calledamplify.
My wife and I and we we justhelp, uh, companies and leaders
tell stories every day, show upin their feeds every day and um,
(18:43):
so yeah, that would be.
The next step is to take.
So what I do is I take thatstory brand script.
We actually craft contentaround those ideas.
So a part of empathy in theprocess is helping alleviate the
fears that your customer has ofdoing business with you, right,
and so you can make a list of20 things, right?
(19:05):
Well, that's 20 pieces ofcontent that you can tell in 30
seconds, 45 seconds, that place,and you can just kind of read
you know, go through those everymonth, every year, you know,
kind of revisit those, repackageand reskin them.
But this is the core of yourcontent and what I love about in
today's culture.
In some ways, the more and Iknow, organic is a buzzword, but
(19:25):
basically we're just saying themore real, the more authentic,
the more believable it is, thebetter it's going to work, right
.
So you looking down a cameraand presenting something and
it's real, polished people like,okay, you worked on that, you
produced it, yeah, but someonejust telling their story to a
phone and putting it out there.
And I'm not saying, put out lowquality stuff, I'm just saying
(19:45):
you don't have to spend tons ofmoney on production, you don't
have to spend tons of time.
I mean even the way we workwith our clients.
We're like, hey, if you give usa few hours a month, we can
come in, we can grab the contentfor you, we can post it for you
, we can show up, we can engage,we can do all that stuff.
But your story needs to be toldconsistently.
Some would say every day, twotimes a day.
There's that school of thought.
(20:06):
I'm more in like, hey, justjust showing up consistently,
even if it's three times a week,you know, is better than just,
hey, we're going to put a bunchof stuff out there and then let
it sit.
No, you gotta you know, yougotta show up, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
So with with social media is there?
Is it trying to turn acommunity of people into
potential clients, like.
So we're taking this frameworkand turning it into some pieces
of content that show up everyday, like what's, what's the
next target after that?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah, I think it's a little bit of both.
I like to think of social mediamore nurturing you know, and it
.
It really depends on your brand,right?
Your?
It depends on what your productis.
Is it you're going afterquantity, right?
Like you're going after?
You know?
I think about, like, selling aproduct where it's like, hey, we
just need to turn as many ofthese products as we can, right?
Or is it big projects yeah, youknow, we mentioned stella, no,
(20:55):
and it's like, hey, they're notgoing to necessarily close a
client every day.
I mean they yeah they'd love to,but I'm just saying they're.
They're going after big, bigclients, right, these are people
that are doing big remodels ornew home builds or whatever, and
so there's more of a nurturingthat happens so that when a
customer needs us, they knowwhere to find us.
Okay, that's good.
So that's true in our emailcampaigns, that's true with
(21:17):
whatever lead generators.
We do A lot of marketing.
Digital marketing today is youdo something, you see what works
and you pour gas on it.
Okay, right, where?
In the past, it was like we'regoing to take this risk, we're
going to put this big budgettogether, do this big campaign,
go board commercials, yeah, andthen we're going to launch it
and we're gosh, I hope it works.
We put a lot of money into it.
Now it's more about we're goingto show up consistently and
(21:40):
then we're going to see whattakes off.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
And then we might, might even pull that back,
reskin it a little bit work onit and put it back out there, or
we may just put a little bit ofmoney in target market behind a
post.
Is that like the idea of microcontent?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
where it's like a smaller piece that if it starts
to work, yeah, okay, yeah, forwhatever reason, the hook on
that piece, the title on it, thecopy, the video, the
storytelling, for whateverreason, it just it's working.
You know, and I would just bereally um careful for any
marketer or any social mediaperson that comes in with too
much confidence, knowing exact,they know exactly what to do to
make you go viral.
Yeah, that's just not true.
(22:16):
That's just there's too muchand there's not.
When they talk about thealgorithm, it's not even.
It's not one algorithm, it'smultiple algorithms, multiple
things, and so it's almost.
I'm not going to say it'simpossible, but it's really hard
to promise and guarantee that acertain post, if we do this,
that the other is going to goviral, viral.
Usually it surprises you whathits and what works, but for me
(22:38):
that's the adventure of it.
Okay, I love that part of itbecause I'm like, okay, well,
let's try a bunch of things.
And then we look back at it.
We're like, oh my gosh, thisone took off.
What is it about this one thatmade it work?
And then you kind back at it.
We're like, oh my gosh, thisone took off.
What is it about this one thatmade it work, and then you kind
of dissect it and you do more ofthe same and then you know
that's part of it that Iactually love.
And so, yeah, I think the microcontent showing up every day, I
(22:59):
think taking the pressure offthat we've got to, you know, put
together this really high,polished high.
You know, it's not about that.
It's about allowing yourself toempathize with your customer,
alleviate their fears and justshow up with your story, your
personal story, why you do whatyou do, that's great.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
So maybe just last question here.
So if you're sitting with abusiness leader, someone who's
running a company, who's neverreally spent money on marketing
before, what's the best way toget started in trying to better
market your product or yourservice?
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Yeah, I mean that's a great question.
I think marketing is one thingthat it's.
It's one of those things thatit can be tough to spend money
on, right, like you're like manand you really want ROI from it,
which I get.
It's like, hey, if I spend thisamount, I got to make more than
this amount for it to makesense, right?
So I get that it's tough.
And the challenge is like with,especially with social media,
(23:52):
you gotta, you gotta be willingto commit to it for a certain
period of time.
You're not, it's not just goingto happen overnight.
Um, but I would say you, youcan start small.
You don't have to start withmassive contracts or massive
whatever.
You can start with.
Hey, I'm going to take the next90 days and we're going to try
some things, I'm going to shootsome reels, I'm going to put
some stuff out there, I'm goingto see what's working.
(24:14):
The great thing about socialmedia today is, you know,
there's there's analytics outthere now that show you exactly
what's working, what's notworking, and so it's not a
guessing game.
You know, I can work with aclient and show them exactly how
many people, through one adthat I send them to their
website, that click, what linkthat took what action, and so I
can show them and we can makedecisions based on that, because
(24:37):
I had one client that we senttons of people to their store
but they weren't buying, whichthat tells us a story, right?
It's like they're showing up.
Someone walked into yourphysical store and you had 300
people walk through your storein one day and no one bought
your product.
That's a problem.
That's a problem, but it's alsotelling you something, right?
So now you've got to evaluateis there something with my
product?
(24:58):
Is there something with myprice point?
But those are all factors thatwe can tweak and adjust.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
So marketing can be a bit of discovery on some level,
because you go, oh well, what'snot, this isn't working, and
marketing to show me why that'snot working.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
And nine times out of 10, because we're so close to
our business as business leaders.
What we think will work doesn't, and what we think doesn't work
does.
I mean that's just the way itworks, right.
We come in and we say hey, thisis how it.
And it's what we're mostexcited.
(25:32):
It's not a you know.
That's why most all of our workis all retainer work because
contract yeah, there's nothingwe're going to be able to do,
but hire us to bring us in, doyou know?
A few hours post some reels.
It's like, okay, that's great,but this is something that we
have to nurture and look at overthe long run.
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