May 14, 2024 • 18 mins
Can you love what you do and not lose yourself while you do it?
Is finding the balance even possible?
On this episode we discuss a couple strategies to help prioritize the things that matter most, and where meaning, purpose, and significance really come from.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (00:14):
Matt, do you ever feel like you were born in the
wrong generation?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Man yeah, all the time you.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
No, I just feel like you, I feel that way about you.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Yeah, a dream of mine when I was I don't know 20.
Mine when I was a I don't know20 or 30, something, was to wake
up on Saturday morning and goto Hardee's with a bunch of old
guys and just gripe about kidsdriving too fast.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
You know you entered the crotchety old man stage a
lot sooner than most people.
It's a facade.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
It's not real.
That's true.
True, I'm really a joyfulperson you are.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
You are well, the reason why I asked that is
because there's in the work youkind of have an old soul in the
workforce, right, and I thinkit's probably you know the way
you were raised in your familysystem and you have a real
hard-working father.
I mean, you come from like,yeah, you're a hard work guy,
you know, and I love that, Ithink that's great.
And then there's as thegenerations kind of emerge.
(01:08):
We're in this place where maybelet me ask this in a question,
not a statement but do you feellike the value of hard work and
work ethic is starting to bediminished, as it was like, you
know, maybe our father'sgeneration?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Yeah, absolutely there's.
There's no getting around it.
I thought that was a prettysoftball question.
Well, I think I'm.
There's a hundred reasons thatI don't think we have time to go
through all of them.
But I mean, technology has madework easier.
Okay, right, we can.
We can do things now withtechnology that you know would
have taken we talked aboutanalog on the last show.
That would have taken weeks toautomate, you know, before.
Now.
It's like man, we can do thisall with AI on a lot of levels.
(01:45):
And then I think people arejust interested in efficiencies.
It's like man, I don't reallywant to do something 60 hours a
week.
You know, I saw my parents ortheir parents or some general
people have this impression thatwhen you grind it something
forever, it wears you down andyou're used up and you're
nothing when you get to the endof it.
So it's like I'd rather have abetter work-life balance, and
that's always a conflict withwhat you know to.
(02:06):
To really be successful at youreally can't have work-life
balance.
You almost have to grind it toa stump to get anywhere.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
And so there's a lot of conflicting information and
feelings out there and yeah,Well, I think there's a tension
that this was it'd be nosurprise that this was my topic
that I brought to the tabletoday but I think there's a
tension in working hard but thenalso not losing your identity
(02:34):
in work Right, and I think ourfather's generation was exactly
what you just it's like you work, you work, you work, maybe have
a little fun on the weekendsand hopefully you've got enough
saved up that when you're 65,you can retire and you can play
golf or take it easy.
I don't know that generationstoday are thinking that way at
all.
I think they're thinking it'sit's definitely more of a we
work to live, not a live to work, mentality, right, and so I
(02:57):
think there's shadow sides ofthat right.
Whereas an employer, it can betough to get people excited
about the mission and get youknow all that kind of stuff, and
I think there's probably somehealthier things in it as well.
As far as I know like I'vespent a lot of my life with my
identity really wrapped up inwhat I do to where other things
suffered, even my own personalhealth or my family or other
(03:19):
things right and like I lookback, like, well, that wasn't
the answer either.
So I I thought we'd have just abit of a conversation on how to
crack the code on that.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
And you're going to solve it for us.
This is going to be a reallylong episode.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
How do we help people love what they do but not lose
their identity in what they do?
I think that's the tension I'mtrying to wrestle with.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I still have a bit of anxiety when you know you're
going to meet a new group ofpeople and you know, at some
point the question is going tocome out what do you do?
What do you do?
Yeah, I mean, it's just.
I don't know if it's justAmerican culture uniquely, but I
do feel like people identifyyou with the work you do.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Like, if you do X, that's who you are and why do
you think that's one of thefirst questions that get asked.
Like?
No one asked me like what areyou reading?
Or what are you like, what'syour like?
It's usually what do you do isin the top three questions when
you meet somebody, right?
Speaker 1 (04:14):
It's got, of course.
I think on some level it's um,it's.
It's a way to show interest,Like maybe people do have a
genuine curiosity.
I wonder what that person doesfor a living, because it will
say, hey, I, I at least, spend,you know, probably 40 hours a
week of my life doing the thingthat I do, and so that clearly
identifies them at some placethere's, you know, and maybe the
shadow side, even if it'sunknown, is a.
(04:36):
Now I can measure myselfagainst this person If I know
what they do.
I think it's.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I think it's a lot of that.
I think it's oh, I do.
I think there's a lot of that.
I think there's a lot, oh, I do.
I think it's a lot of well,what you do in in a culture that
your identity is so wrapped upin what you do, you make a lot
of judgments about a personpretty quick.
Yeah, yeah, when it's like okay,well, and it's probably you ask
that question or I asked thatquestion because it's the top of
the list for my life, like whatI do with my life and what I
(05:01):
work and my vocation is can endup being in the driver's seat of
the thing that I care the mostabout, and so if that's true for
me, then it's going to be thething I ask you about, because
what are you doing with yourlife?
Like I'm curious, you know, butyou can make a lot of
assumptions, a lot of judgmentsabout a person, and I do think
the American way, the Americanculture, the American dream, is
all about work, it's about theopportunity and I love that
(05:24):
right, like I'm so pro that, um,and I'm probably in that camp
where I want to work really hardand do something that I love,
but I also want to be known andI want to be.
I don't want to be associatedwith just the work.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
You do the work that I do.
I mean, there's so manydifferent professions.
You know, I've, um, I've got afamily member who's, you know, a
doctor, and it's like what agreat answer to the question
what do you do?
Oh, I'm a doctor, like you know.
Immediately you're on the topof the social hierarchy in that
moment because it's like, well,when you, when you have an
answer to that question that isrespected by culture, they know
(06:01):
a there's you've put in time andeducation, or you must be
really smart, you must be areally hard worker.
I'm an attorney.
There's these professions thatwell, maybe not attorneys.
No offense to attorneys outthere.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I'll piss off our attorneys that are listening.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
There's these impressions that we get that
immediately add value to thatperson.
It's like, oh, they do that,that's significant.
So there's value, there'ssignificance, there's all these
things wrapped up in a quickanswer to that question and it
really sucks, dude.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
The worst was, I mean , I spent so much of my life as
a pastor, yeah, and that wasjust you're at a party, you're
hanging out, you're doingwhatever, and you're meeting new
people, and it gets to thatquestion yeah, I would wanted to
dodge that.
So bad because it's not becauseI I don't think it was because
I was ashamed of being a pastor.
I think it was how I knew itwas going to make them feel once
(06:50):
they heard the answer.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
I've got something similar Cause I, you know, we
worked at the same church for along time and so golf was my
thing.
Obviously, you know, andsometimes you get paired up with
a bunch of randos.
You know, at best they'redrinking beer, at worst they're
smoking joints and popping pillsyou know it can get pretty
rowdy out there, but of courseyou're playing that oh, that's
(07:14):
all of them.
That's right um any otherbetting and swearing and all
this stuff and smoking and like,uh, you know, third or fourth
hole.
Yeah, what do you do?
Yeah, oh crap, you almost wantto lie so you don't ruin their
fun oh, I try to come up withdifferent.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
I'm an executive creative leader for a non-profit
, or because you're the buzzkillin those moments, then they
start.
Oh, I guess we should watch ourmouth around you.
Or the best is when they goback and try to pull back one
memory from their past that hadto do with the church.
I went to church once, yeah, Idrove by a church one time it
was on that corner I was like,listen, we don't have to do this
right now, but I I think that'sa big part of of people's lives
(07:52):
.
So I mean for just a coupleminutes here and we keep this
episode short.
But what are, what are someways that we can try to at least
wrestle?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
this down.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
What are some, what are some ways to do this, to
where I think we'd be doing adisservice if we didn't say that
we you and I both believedeeply in hard work and we maybe
are a little bit more old soulswhen it comes to that.
Like, if we're going to leanone direction or the other,
we're leaning towards man, getin and work hard and let's build
something like that.
(08:22):
We were pro that, but we'realso, you know, raising families
and they're married, like wealso have other things that are
that, if you were to hold usdown and say we're going to
choose our families andeverything else over work, you
know, and sometimes ourschedules don't necessarily
reflect that.
So how are some, how are someways that we can kind of be in
this tension?
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, I'd love for you to answer it too.
The first thing I think aboutis when.
When was the last time youstopped and took inventory of
your life and prioritized what'sthere?
Yeah, you know, because we allhave parts of ourselves right.
We're not just the person thatshows up to an office.
We're not just the person who'san entrepreneur starting a
business, whatever it is.
Some of us have families.
We're married, we're spouses,Some of us have kids, so we're
(09:05):
dads or moms, and if we're notmarried and don't have kids, you
know we're a brother or asister or a son or a daughter,
and there are things about ourlife that are infinitely more
valuable on a lot of levels thanthe work that we do.
You know, monday to Friday andculture has it pretty backwards,
you know, cause it's?
It's not easy to make a judgmentor an assumption about somebody
.
It's like, oh, I'm a, I'm a sonof two really great parents and
(09:27):
I'm a husband to an awesomewife, I'm a dad to two great
kids, like it's like, oh yes,how much money do you make?
Like it doesn't answer thequestion that they really want
to know, you know, and so wedon't lead with those things.
So I think we forget that, thatpart of ourselves.
It's like no, I'm not just theperson that does this.
And so I think, prioritizingand saying no, let me, let me
get some perspective on who I am, and that's going to help shape
(09:48):
where I put my time, my energy,my, my money.
And so I think I heard somebodysay show me someone's calendar
and her bank account and I'llshow you what's important to
them.
You know where you spend yourtime, where you spend your money
.
Those things reveal your valuesto me.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
And I think, yeah, I think.
So stop is just going.
Let's, let's prioritize and seewhere we are.
What are our values?
What about you?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Yeah, I think that's a that's a great one.
Um, I yeah, I think for me Ihave to set boundaries and I
have to set boundaries with nowthat I own my own business.
I have to set boundaries withclients.
First of all because a lot oftimes, especially if you have a
business where you're serving alot of clients, a lot of times
those clients, they almost treatyou like as if you're there
(10:32):
they're your only client.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
it's just great from their perspective.
Yeah, kind of are right, right,and so if you don't have, if
you don't set clarity andboundaries and expectations on
the front end, you're gonna workin a lot longer, you know,
because you haven't set thoseboundaries with that client.
But more so than that, I gottaset boundaries with myself.
Okay, like I have to make surethat I am proactive with my
schedule, because if you ownyour own business, the work
(10:56):
never stops.
You could just keep working allevening and the weekends and it
never so for me.
I have to get practical withthat.
I've got to practical with myphone and my computer and my
email and I have to make surethat I kind of cut myself off at
certain times or I'll keepgoing.
I'm really bad at that.
Yeah, I am too.
I'm too.
I found a couple different.
I use a program called Motionthat helps me really organize my
(11:19):
tasks, my calendar and all thatkind of stuff and kind of see
what I have to do and when I'vegot time to do it, and it's a
huge help for me on that kind ofstuff even being able to commit
.
Huge help for me on that kind ofstuff, even being able to
commit because I can look andsay, hey, I actually don't have
time on my calendar to pull itoff for you this week, but next
week I can, based on all thethings that I have to do, you
know coming up, so that's reallyhelpful.
So, setting boundaries for meand the the thing that I'm
(11:41):
probably in this season worse atthat you're crushing it at is
just having a hobby, havingsomething not work related that
you do, that you enjoy, thatfills you up, that you can look
forward to every week.
I know for you it's golf, likehey, when you're on the golf
course you're probably you mightbe thinking about work, but
you're not thinking about it interms of it's more dreaming and
(12:02):
ideating, like that's.
To me that almost doesn't countbecause that's like that's,
that's kind of fun, that's thefun stuff but you're not not
necessarily checking emails andall that stuff.
But that's something that I'mworking on, like what is that
thing?
Whether I'm going fishing orI'm hanging out with the family,
that I can just have somehobbies, doing some fun things
that aren't work-related, whereI shut everything off and I can
just concentrate on having somefun.
(12:25):
So just a couple of words.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
I saw this interesting post, no-transcript,
(12:55):
think that can often giveperspective.
And ultimately, where I'd liketo take a mentor relationship is
my wife has encouraged me to dothis, I haven't done it yet is
to have a personal board Likewhat does it look like to have a
board of?
Directors for your life, youknow, someone.
You know, I'm just just.
(13:15):
I love the word wisdom.
I think there's so much wrappedup in that I always want to be
a student of what it's like tostudy and grow in wisdom and
sometimes the wisdom of peoplewho are in your corner.
They're for you, but also we'renot afraid to tell you tough
stuff.
To build a, it doesn't have tobe like eight people.
Find three people that youadmire where they are in life,
with their relationships, theirparenting, their business life,
whatever it is.
Say, hey, would you, would youtake you know a couple hours a
(13:35):
quarter and just invest in mylife?
I'd love to have that happenand I think they can really help
shape identity, you know, andhelp you with boundaries.
Especially people have a hardtime setting boundaries.
Outsource it, see if someonewill invest in you and help you
do that.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
yeah, I want to do that too, and I think if you're
willing to be vulnerable andreally let them in, that could
be a huge, that could be a hugehelp, and my my biggest
resistance to it is the wordwe've we've talked about this
before is control.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
It's like I don't want someone to tell me to stop
doing something I really want tobe doing right now when it
comes to work.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
We're not doing that.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
That's a non-negotiable.
But why do you think, on thepositive side, identity gives so
much purpose and cachet?
Because there's some upside toit.
It is a quick and easy way tocommunicate to someone what
you're into.
We've talked about some of thenegative sides of what identity
being wrapped up in work can do.
What are the upsides for you?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
can do.
What were the upsides for you?
Well, I think, if I thinkpurpose matters, right, and I
think, if you can fine, we talka lot about mission, vision,
values on the podcast, right,and so hopefully, no matter what
you're doing with your work,with your job, you're able to
(14:49):
dig a little bit deeper into thephilosophical level and say why
does what I do matter for theworld?
Right, I think that's why we'rethe identity where it's not
just like I check the box andyou know here's what I do and
you know it's like, it's like no, I, I actually bring value to
the world with what I do.
And I think I would argue that,no matter what your position,
no matter where you're at in theorg chart, that you can find
(15:12):
that philosophical, why, forwhat you're doing, how you're
bringing value, even if you'rejust serving people, I mean it
doesn't matter.
So I think on that side ofthings and a lot of times in
some marketing exercises Iactually help people with
elevator pitch of going throughlike problem solution, success.
So instead of saying I'm just adoctor or a lawyer, whatever it
(15:33):
is, you kind of like hey,here's the problem that exists
and here's a solution that Ibring.
And this is what success lookslike and it helps people get
excited about what they do againbecause like, oh, it's not,
it's, I'm not just checking abox right, just working this
nine to five or just devotingall this time for no reason.
In the times where you lackmotivation, it's.
It's nice to go back to thosevalues.
(15:53):
A lot, like you know Imentioned before in podcast, for
us and our core business, itwas man.
We really want to help thoughtleaders.
I don't care if you're inconstruction or if you're a
doctor or if you're a dentist orif you're whatever.
We want to help you can be atherapist.
We want to help you get yourmessage out so that you can help
more people.
On days where I don't love whatI do, if I go back to that
(16:14):
statement, I'm like oh yeah,that's great.
And I think to your point aboutidentity.
That's when it's positive,that's when it's going to say,
hey, this is the meaning and thevalue that I actually bring to
the world.
This is a good thing, that'sgood.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
I think we all are searching for meaning,
significance and purpose.
You talked about that right,and in a country like the US
where we've got so many rightsright to free speech we have a
constitution, we've got a billof rights that tells us what
we're allowed to do the side ofrights that people forget is
(16:46):
that they do come withresponsibilities, and I don't
think rights give us meaning,but I do think responsibilities
do.
And if you can belly up to thebar, if this table represents
responsibility and I can get myarms around the widest amount of
responsibility possible, Ithink that's where the most
meaning and fulfillment comesfor people's.
Like man, I'm responsible forthis.
(17:07):
Like I have a duty to thisperson, I have a duty to this
event.
I have a duty to my family.
I'm responsible for this at work, and when you feel responsible
for things, there's a lot ofpurpose and significance that
comes from that.
It's like people, things,systems are depending on me to
(17:27):
get this done, and, of course,you have a right to not do any
of that stuff.
But I think where meaning andsignificance really comes in is
that responsibility.
So sometimes, just when yourwork identity and your real
identity gets mixed up, it'sbecause maybe you do have a lot
of responsibility and it doesbring you a lot of meaning and
it's tough to separate thosethings Totally, and I think you
know we can wrap with thisthought that I feel like goes
back to what you just said.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I don't know that there is an answer for this
question, right, and that's okay.
I don't know that there's like,well, this is how you know.
But I do think, if it goes backto the first thing you
instructed us to do, which isaudit and evaluate, if you're
asking the question, you'reprobably in a good place.
If you're going through andyou're looking through what
matters.
(18:04):
If you're asking a question likehey, if I lost my ability to do
what I could do today, do Istill know who I am, why I exist
on this planet, bigger thanwhat I do, all those things,
which those things are probablypretty closely related if you
get down to your gifts and yourstrengths and your you know why
you were put on the planet, thenthat probably is going to
determine what you need to bedoing vocationally with your
life.
But if you lose your vocationand you still know who you are,
(18:26):
I think that's important.
But I think, as long as we'reasking the question auditing
then I think we're in a goodplace.
I mean, how bad did you hatethat episode?
It was fantastic.
Next week we can get back tomore practical leadership stuff.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Every once in a while we've got to dip into our feet,
feel the way.
Matt, do you ever feel like you were born in the
wrong generation?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Man yeah, all the time you.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
No, I just feel like you, I feel that way about you.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Yeah, a dream of mine when I was I don't know 20.
Mine when I was a I don't know20 or 30, something, was to wake
up on Saturday morning and goto Hardee's with a bunch of old
guys and just gripe about kidsdriving too fast.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
You know you entered the crotchety old man stage a
lot sooner than most people.
It's a facade.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
It's not real.
That's true.
True, I'm really a joyfulperson you are.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
You are well, the reason why I asked that is
because there's in the work youkind of have an old soul in the
workforce, right, and I thinkit's probably you know the way
you were raised in your familysystem and you have a real
hard-working father.
I mean, you come from like,yeah, you're a hard work guy,
you know, and I love that, Ithink that's great.
And then there's as thegenerations kind of emerge.
(01:08):
We're in this place where maybelet me ask this in a question,
not a statement but do you feellike the value of hard work and
work ethic is starting to bediminished, as it was like, you
know, maybe our father'sgeneration?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Yeah, absolutely there's.
There's no getting around it.
I thought that was a prettysoftball question.
Well, I think I'm.
There's a hundred reasons thatI don't think we have time to go
through all of them.
But I mean, technology has madework easier.
Okay, right, we can.
We can do things now withtechnology that you know would
have taken we talked aboutanalog on the last show.
That would have taken weeks toautomate, you know, before.
Now.
It's like man, we can do thisall with AI on a lot of levels.
(01:45):
And then I think people arejust interested in efficiencies.
It's like man, I don't reallywant to do something 60 hours a
week.
You know, I saw my parents ortheir parents or some general
people have this impression thatwhen you grind it something
forever, it wears you down andyou're used up and you're
nothing when you get to the endof it.
So it's like I'd rather have abetter work-life balance, and
that's always a conflict withwhat you know to.
(02:06):
To really be successful at youreally can't have work-life
balance.
You almost have to grind it toa stump to get anywhere.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
And so there's a lot of conflicting information and
feelings out there and yeah,Well, I think there's a tension
that this was it'd be nosurprise that this was my topic
that I brought to the tabletoday but I think there's a
tension in working hard but thenalso not losing your identity
(02:34):
in work Right, and I think ourfather's generation was exactly
what you just it's like you work, you work, you work, maybe have
a little fun on the weekendsand hopefully you've got enough
saved up that when you're 65,you can retire and you can play
golf or take it easy.
I don't know that generationstoday are thinking that way at
all.
I think they're thinking it'sit's definitely more of a we
work to live, not a live to work, mentality, right, and so I
(02:57):
think there's shadow sides ofthat right.
Whereas an employer, it can betough to get people excited
about the mission and get youknow all that kind of stuff, and
I think there's probably somehealthier things in it as well.
As far as I know like I'vespent a lot of my life with my
identity really wrapped up inwhat I do to where other things
suffered, even my own personalhealth or my family or other
(03:19):
things right and like I lookback, like, well, that wasn't
the answer either.
So I I thought we'd have just abit of a conversation on how to
crack the code on that.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
And you're going to solve it for us.
This is going to be a reallylong episode.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
How do we help people love what they do but not lose
their identity in what they do?
I think that's the tension I'mtrying to wrestle with.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I still have a bit of anxiety when you know you're
going to meet a new group ofpeople and you know, at some
point the question is going tocome out what do you do?
What do you do?
Yeah, I mean, it's just.
I don't know if it's justAmerican culture uniquely, but I
do feel like people identifyyou with the work you do.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Like, if you do X, that's who you are and why do
you think that's one of thefirst questions that get asked.
Like?
No one asked me like what areyou reading?
Or what are you like, what'syour like?
It's usually what do you do isin the top three questions when
you meet somebody, right?
Speaker 1 (04:14):
It's got, of course.
I think on some level it's um,it's.
It's a way to show interest,Like maybe people do have a
genuine curiosity.
I wonder what that person doesfor a living, because it will
say, hey, I, I at least, spend,you know, probably 40 hours a
week of my life doing the thingthat I do, and so that clearly
identifies them at some placethere's, you know, and maybe the
shadow side, even if it'sunknown, is a.
(04:36):
Now I can measure myselfagainst this person If I know
what they do.
I think it's.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I think it's a lot of that.
I think it's oh, I do.
I think there's a lot of that.
I think there's a lot, oh, I do.
I think it's a lot of well,what you do in in a culture that
your identity is so wrapped upin what you do, you make a lot
of judgments about a personpretty quick.
Yeah, yeah, when it's like okay,well, and it's probably you ask
that question or I asked thatquestion because it's the top of
the list for my life, like whatI do with my life and what I
(05:01):
work and my vocation is can endup being in the driver's seat of
the thing that I care the mostabout, and so if that's true for
me, then it's going to be thething I ask you about, because
what are you doing with yourlife?
Like I'm curious, you know, butyou can make a lot of
assumptions, a lot of judgmentsabout a person, and I do think
the American way, the Americanculture, the American dream, is
all about work, it's about theopportunity and I love that
(05:24):
right, like I'm so pro that, um,and I'm probably in that camp
where I want to work really hardand do something that I love,
but I also want to be known andI want to be.
I don't want to be associatedwith just the work.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
You do the work that I do.
I mean, there's so manydifferent professions.
You know, I've, um, I've got afamily member who's, you know, a
doctor, and it's like what agreat answer to the question
what do you do?
Oh, I'm a doctor, like you know.
Immediately you're on the topof the social hierarchy in that
moment because it's like, well,when you, when you have an
answer to that question that isrespected by culture, they know
(06:01):
a there's you've put in time andeducation, or you must be
really smart, you must be areally hard worker.
I'm an attorney.
There's these professions thatwell, maybe not attorneys.
No offense to attorneys outthere.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I'll piss off our attorneys that are listening.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
There's these impressions that we get that
immediately add value to thatperson.
It's like, oh, they do that,that's significant.
So there's value, there'ssignificance, there's all these
things wrapped up in a quickanswer to that question and it
really sucks, dude.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
The worst was, I mean , I spent so much of my life as
a pastor, yeah, and that wasjust you're at a party, you're
hanging out, you're doingwhatever, and you're meeting new
people, and it gets to thatquestion yeah, I would wanted to
dodge that.
So bad because it's not becauseI I don't think it was because
I was ashamed of being a pastor.
I think it was how I knew itwas going to make them feel once
(06:50):
they heard the answer.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
I've got something similar Cause I, you know, we
worked at the same church for along time and so golf was my
thing.
Obviously, you know, andsometimes you get paired up with
a bunch of randos.
You know, at best they'redrinking beer, at worst they're
smoking joints and popping pillsyou know it can get pretty
rowdy out there, but of courseyou're playing that oh, that's
(07:14):
all of them.
That's right um any otherbetting and swearing and all
this stuff and smoking and like,uh, you know, third or fourth
hole.
Yeah, what do you do?
Yeah, oh crap, you almost wantto lie so you don't ruin their
fun oh, I try to come up withdifferent.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
I'm an executive creative leader for a non-profit
, or because you're the buzzkillin those moments, then they
start.
Oh, I guess we should watch ourmouth around you.
Or the best is when they goback and try to pull back one
memory from their past that hadto do with the church.
I went to church once, yeah, Idrove by a church one time it
was on that corner I was like,listen, we don't have to do this
right now, but I I think that'sa big part of of people's lives
(07:52):
.
So I mean for just a coupleminutes here and we keep this
episode short.
But what are, what are someways that we can try to at least
wrestle?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
this down.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
What are some, what are some ways to do this, to
where I think we'd be doing adisservice if we didn't say that
we you and I both believedeeply in hard work and we maybe
are a little bit more old soulswhen it comes to that.
Like, if we're going to leanone direction or the other,
we're leaning towards man, getin and work hard and let's build
something like that.
(08:22):
We were pro that, but we'realso, you know, raising families
and they're married, like wealso have other things that are
that, if you were to hold usdown and say we're going to
choose our families andeverything else over work, you
know, and sometimes ourschedules don't necessarily
reflect that.
So how are some, how are someways that we can kind of be in
this tension?
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, I'd love for you to answer it too.
The first thing I think aboutis when.
When was the last time youstopped and took inventory of
your life and prioritized what'sthere?
Yeah, you know, because we allhave parts of ourselves right.
We're not just the person thatshows up to an office.
We're not just the person who'san entrepreneur starting a
business, whatever it is.
Some of us have families.
We're married, we're spouses,Some of us have kids, so we're
(09:05):
dads or moms, and if we're notmarried and don't have kids, you
know we're a brother or asister or a son or a daughter,
and there are things about ourlife that are infinitely more
valuable on a lot of levels thanthe work that we do.
You know, monday to Friday andculture has it pretty backwards,
you know, cause it's?
It's not easy to make a judgmentor an assumption about somebody
.
It's like, oh, I'm a, I'm a sonof two really great parents and
(09:27):
I'm a husband to an awesomewife, I'm a dad to two great
kids, like it's like, oh yes,how much money do you make?
Like it doesn't answer thequestion that they really want
to know, you know, and so wedon't lead with those things.
So I think we forget that, thatpart of ourselves.
It's like no, I'm not just theperson that does this.
And so I think, prioritizingand saying no, let me, let me
get some perspective on who I am, and that's going to help shape
(09:48):
where I put my time, my energy,my, my money.
And so I think I heard somebodysay show me someone's calendar
and her bank account and I'llshow you what's important to
them.
You know where you spend yourtime, where you spend your money
.
Those things reveal your valuesto me.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
And I think, yeah, I think.
So stop is just going.
Let's, let's prioritize and seewhere we are.
What are our values?
What about you?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Yeah, I think that's a that's a great one.
Um, I yeah, I think for me Ihave to set boundaries and I
have to set boundaries with nowthat I own my own business.
I have to set boundaries withclients.
First of all because a lot oftimes, especially if you have a
business where you're serving alot of clients, a lot of times
those clients, they almost treatyou like as if you're there
(10:32):
they're your only client.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
it's just great from their perspective.
Yeah, kind of are right, right,and so if you don't have, if
you don't set clarity andboundaries and expectations on
the front end, you're gonna workin a lot longer, you know,
because you haven't set thoseboundaries with that client.
But more so than that, I gottaset boundaries with myself.
Okay, like I have to make surethat I am proactive with my
schedule, because if you ownyour own business, the work
(10:56):
never stops.
You could just keep working allevening and the weekends and it
never so for me.
I have to get practical withthat.
I've got to practical with myphone and my computer and my
email and I have to make surethat I kind of cut myself off at
certain times or I'll keepgoing.
I'm really bad at that.
Yeah, I am too.
I'm too.
I found a couple different.
I use a program called Motionthat helps me really organize my
(11:19):
tasks, my calendar and all thatkind of stuff and kind of see
what I have to do and when I'vegot time to do it, and it's a
huge help for me on that kind ofstuff even being able to commit
.
Huge help for me on that kind ofstuff, even being able to
commit because I can look andsay, hey, I actually don't have
time on my calendar to pull itoff for you this week, but next
week I can, based on all thethings that I have to do, you
know coming up, so that's reallyhelpful.
So, setting boundaries for meand the the thing that I'm
(11:41):
probably in this season worse atthat you're crushing it at is
just having a hobby, havingsomething not work related that
you do, that you enjoy, thatfills you up, that you can look
forward to every week.
I know for you it's golf, likehey, when you're on the golf
course you're probably you mightbe thinking about work, but
you're not thinking about it interms of it's more dreaming and
(12:02):
ideating, like that's.
To me that almost doesn't countbecause that's like that's,
that's kind of fun, that's thefun stuff but you're not not
necessarily checking emails andall that stuff.
But that's something that I'mworking on, like what is that
thing?
Whether I'm going fishing orI'm hanging out with the family,
that I can just have somehobbies, doing some fun things
that aren't work-related, whereI shut everything off and I can
just concentrate on having somefun.
(12:25):
So just a couple of words.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
I saw this interesting post, no-transcript,
(12:55):
think that can often giveperspective.
And ultimately, where I'd liketo take a mentor relationship is
my wife has encouraged me to dothis, I haven't done it yet is
to have a personal board Likewhat does it look like to have a
board of?
Directors for your life, youknow, someone.
You know, I'm just just.
(13:15):
I love the word wisdom.
I think there's so much wrappedup in that I always want to be
a student of what it's like tostudy and grow in wisdom and
sometimes the wisdom of peoplewho are in your corner.
They're for you, but also we'renot afraid to tell you tough
stuff.
To build a, it doesn't have tobe like eight people.
Find three people that youadmire where they are in life,
with their relationships, theirparenting, their business life,
whatever it is.
Say, hey, would you, would youtake you know a couple hours a
(13:35):
quarter and just invest in mylife?
I'd love to have that happenand I think they can really help
shape identity, you know, andhelp you with boundaries.
Especially people have a hardtime setting boundaries.
Outsource it, see if someonewill invest in you and help you
do that.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
yeah, I want to do that too, and I think if you're
willing to be vulnerable andreally let them in, that could
be a huge, that could be a hugehelp, and my my biggest
resistance to it is the wordwe've we've talked about this
before is control.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
It's like I don't want someone to tell me to stop
doing something I really want tobe doing right now when it
comes to work.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
We're not doing that.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
That's a non-negotiable.
But why do you think, on thepositive side, identity gives so
much purpose and cachet?
Because there's some upside toit.
It is a quick and easy way tocommunicate to someone what
you're into.
We've talked about some of thenegative sides of what identity
being wrapped up in work can do.
What are the upsides for you?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
can do.
What were the upsides for you?
Well, I think, if I thinkpurpose matters, right, and I
think, if you can fine, we talka lot about mission, vision,
values on the podcast, right,and so hopefully, no matter what
you're doing with your work,with your job, you're able to
(14:49):
dig a little bit deeper into thephilosophical level and say why
does what I do matter for theworld?
Right, I think that's why we'rethe identity where it's not
just like I check the box andyou know here's what I do and
you know it's like, it's like no, I, I actually bring value to
the world with what I do.
And I think I would argue that,no matter what your position,
no matter where you're at in theorg chart, that you can find
(15:12):
that philosophical, why, forwhat you're doing, how you're
bringing value, even if you'rejust serving people, I mean it
doesn't matter.
So I think on that side ofthings and a lot of times in
some marketing exercises Iactually help people with
elevator pitch of going throughlike problem solution, success.
So instead of saying I'm just adoctor or a lawyer, whatever it
(15:33):
is, you kind of like hey,here's the problem that exists
and here's a solution that Ibring.
And this is what success lookslike and it helps people get
excited about what they do againbecause like, oh, it's not,
it's, I'm not just checking abox right, just working this
nine to five or just devotingall this time for no reason.
In the times where you lackmotivation, it's.
It's nice to go back to thosevalues.
(15:53):
A lot, like you know Imentioned before in podcast, for
us and our core business, itwas man.
We really want to help thoughtleaders.
I don't care if you're inconstruction or if you're a
doctor or if you're a dentist orif you're whatever.
We want to help you can be atherapist.
We want to help you get yourmessage out so that you can help
more people.
On days where I don't love whatI do, if I go back to that
(16:14):
statement, I'm like oh yeah,that's great.
And I think to your point aboutidentity.
That's when it's positive,that's when it's going to say,
hey, this is the meaning and thevalue that I actually bring to
the world.
This is a good thing, that'sgood.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
I think we all are searching for meaning,
significance and purpose.
You talked about that right,and in a country like the US
where we've got so many rightsright to free speech we have a
constitution, we've got a billof rights that tells us what
we're allowed to do the side ofrights that people forget is
(16:46):
that they do come withresponsibilities, and I don't
think rights give us meaning,but I do think responsibilities
do.
And if you can belly up to thebar, if this table represents
responsibility and I can get myarms around the widest amount of
responsibility possible, Ithink that's where the most
meaning and fulfillment comesfor people's.
Like man, I'm responsible forthis.
(17:07):
Like I have a duty to thisperson, I have a duty to this
event.
I have a duty to my family.
I'm responsible for this at work, and when you feel responsible
for things, there's a lot ofpurpose and significance that
comes from that.
It's like people, things,systems are depending on me to
(17:27):
get this done, and, of course,you have a right to not do any
of that stuff.
But I think where meaning andsignificance really comes in is
that responsibility.
So sometimes, just when yourwork identity and your real
identity gets mixed up, it'sbecause maybe you do have a lot
of responsibility and it doesbring you a lot of meaning and
it's tough to separate thosethings Totally, and I think you
know we can wrap with thisthought that I feel like goes
back to what you just said.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I don't know that there is an answer for this
question, right, and that's okay.
I don't know that there's like,well, this is how you know.
But I do think, if it goes backto the first thing you
instructed us to do, which isaudit and evaluate, if you're
asking the question, you'reprobably in a good place.
If you're going through andyou're looking through what
matters.
(18:04):
If you're asking a question likehey, if I lost my ability to do
what I could do today, do Istill know who I am, why I exist
on this planet, bigger thanwhat I do, all those things,
which those things are probablypretty closely related if you
get down to your gifts and yourstrengths and your you know why
you were put on the planet, thenthat probably is going to
determine what you need to bedoing vocationally with your
life.
But if you lose your vocationand you still know who you are,
(18:26):
I think that's important.
But I think, as long as we'reasking the question auditing
then I think we're in a goodplace.
I mean, how bad did you hatethat episode?
It was fantastic.
Next week we can get back tomore practical leadership stuff.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Every once in a while we've got to dip into our feet,
feel the way.
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