March 12, 2024 • 14 mins
Life can often be painful. Leading anything meaningful eventually leads to more of it. On this episode Matt and Drew talk about embracing the pain of leadership, how pain can fuel growth and how pain can ignite your passion in a way comfort never could.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (00:12):
So, matt, last episode we talked about fear,
and you know, kind of the uglystep cousin to fear is pain,
right, they kind of.
They kind of go hand in handand it's something that a lot of
leaders experience or arecurrently experiencing.
So we want to dedicate anepisode to almost the value.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
These are such uplifting episodes.
Let's talk about fear, failureand pain.
Tune in, put a smile on yourface.
I know, dude.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Well, it's like it's so many of us are living in
these places, like in leadershipI don't know if we said this on
the podcast or before, but thehigher up you get in leadership,
it's problem solving, it'sputting out fires.
You think if I get to be aleader, then I get to really
like shape my own destiny andI'm just vision all the time and
you direction Most of the time.
You're just spending more timesolving problems, which can be
(01:04):
painful.
So anyways, you were.
You've had some great insightson, specifically on on pain.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
I love to think about pain.
Wake up, think about pain.
The older you get, the morepain you have.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I was going to say you can't help but think about
pain.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
No, I just you know, every once in a while I have
these decent ideas are notalways there, but I was.
We were driving, my wife and Iwere driving away from
Earrington Vineyard.
This was probably like 10 or 15years ago it was a long time
ago and it was a longer drivehome because we lived in, like
West Nashville and this is likea 45 minute, you know drive or
something like that.
And I just had this idea.
I was like, man, comfort's thegoal, Like I want to be
(01:37):
comfortable.
You know, I was like, oh, butcomfort's the enemy, like you
just don't get anywhere goodwhen you're comfortable.
And so I think it's funny tojuxtapose comfort and pain,
because I do think they gotogether, but I don't think
people think about them the sameall the time.
Right, and I think, if I backup and want to unpack that
statement, it's like man, I wantto have resources, I want to go
(01:58):
on great vacations, I want tobe able to play golf when I want
to, I want to be able toprovide for my kids, I want
comfort.
And the problem is, the morecomfortable you get, the less
chance you have to actuallyreally chase any of those things
, because you get reallycomplacent and there's not a lot
of value in being comfortable.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah that's so true.
Well, a word that we like touse a lot in our organizations
is Lord Passion.
Right, that's a more pleasantway of saying it.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
What are you?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
passionate about?
What do you love?
What are you like?
That's a reframing of pain.
Well, I think so.
I mean, chip Dodd has got agreat definition of passion,
which is the willingness toendure pain for something
greater than pain.
So if I'm passionate aboutsomething, it means, hey, I will
endure a certain measure ofpain because what I'm passionate
about, what I love, so you're.
I'm passionate about my family,okay, well, what pain are you
(02:47):
enduring to provide for them, tobe for them, whatever?
If I'm passionate about myorganization?
So I think a lot of times wesay passion, we forget that
that's actually saying I'mwilling to endure an immense
amount of pain for somethingthat's greater than this pain.
But there is an endurance.
You know part of it.
You know, and I was.
I was telling you about thisbasketball player, giannis.
(03:07):
I don't even pronounce his lastname.
It was like Enta Ticcumpo orsomething like that.
He sounds amazing.
Yeah Well, my wife and I werewatching this documentary on
Giannis and I don't knowanything about his life.
I don't know what to say abouthis life in Greece because they
call him the Greek freak.
But come to find out is, Ithink it was Ethiopia is where
his family is from.
They're refugees.
They they fled to Greece forimmigrants there and the whole
(03:28):
documentary was about hispassion, which was when he
discovered he had a gift forplaying basketball.
His whole life became I want toplay basketball because I got
to get my family out of here, Igot to provide for my family and
he became a laser focus on.
This is the path to my familyand for my brothers.
He had little brothers.
He told stories about it beingso dangerous to walk through the
(03:50):
streets because they weren'twanted there in Greece.
It's funny how they want themthere now that he plays
basketball.
They played for the Greeknational team, but when he was a
kid they didn't want them there.
And how he would come up withgames to trick his little
brothers into running home sothey didn't have to feel the
fear of like, hey, their lifewas actually in jeopardy, right,
and so placing his career, hemakes it to the NBA, but he
(04:12):
can't get his, his family, herebecause of visa reasons.
And he goes in the front officeand he basically says, if you
can't get him here, I'm done,I'm out, I'm going to quit, I'm
going to go back home, becausethe whole reason why I'm doing
this is the whole reason whywe've endured all this pain, why
I'm doing all this stuff, is toget them out of here, to get
them safe, right, and I was somoved by that.
I was like man, the things thathe was willing to do, but he
(04:35):
never lost focus of his why, oflike, why is he doing this?
And so I think for us asleaders and in our organizations
, it's like we can talk passion,but if we're unwilling to
embrace pain, to look at pain,to understand that that's going
to be a major part, a majorcatalyst to our growth and our
(04:57):
success is going to be the painwe're willing to endure, then
we're going to miss it, we'renever going to get to our
intended destination.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
And I don't think we're talking about like
devastating levels of pain.
Obviously those things canshape someone, that can be a
catalyst for change, but pain isalmost like a bit of a
challenge.
You know, you can be underchallenged, you can be over
challenged, you can beappropriately challenged.
And there was this long termstudy done on kids born in 1920,
1921.
These kids went through theGreat Depression right, and it
(05:30):
wasn't the rich kids who did thebest.
They didn't feel the effects ofthe Great Depression
significantly right, so they hadfine lives because they weren't
massively affected.
But they weren't the heroes ofthe study, the kids who, like
their parents, abandoned themand their lives was a complete
train wreck.
They didn't do well either, butit was kind of that lower
middle class that went throughthe Great Depression that at 10
(05:51):
years old they were taking jobs,they were wearing hand-me-down
clothes, they didn't know wheretheir next meal was coming from,
but they survived that.
The long term study showed thatthese were some of the most
successful adults that lived notjust like on purpose and
successful, but grateful andsuccessful.
They had such a gratitude forwhere they were and you know
(06:12):
when you can look back and say,man, I made it through that.
If I can get through that, Ican get through this, and so I
think pain helps giveperspective.
Totally, you know, and whatkind of put me on, you know,
this conversation today was likewe just don't let our kids
experience pain and suffering,you know, and of course we don't
want them to like, as parents,like, oh, I don't want you to go
through that.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah, we actually feel like that's our whole job.
Right Is to keep them fromexperiencing pain.
I mean, I know I do.
I'm convicted by that.
I'm like man, I don't want mykids to experience any kind of
pain.
Ultimately, I don't want toeither.
Right, of course, right, butnow it's like, okay, but I'm
willing to endure pain.
I'm passionate about my kidsnot enduring pain.
Man, it's just such a poorteacher for what?
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Real life is gonna be and you just don't develop any
type of coping mechanisms orstrategies.
And I don't mean like unhealthycoping, I mean going oh no,
there's more to me, like I canget through this.
And so I think one of thethings that I wrote down was
there's a pain that you leaninto that other people lean away
from.
There's a fire that you'rewilling to rush into that others
(07:15):
run away from, and that's yourleadership superpower.
Like I don't know what that is.
You know, I think I've got apretty good idea what that is
for me.
Some people, when I say that,they're like oh yeah, I'm
willing to do this and no oneelse is willing to do that.
And I'm not talking abouteffort, I'm talking about like
I'm just more comfortablestepping into that stress or
that pain or that discomfortbecause I know I can deal with
(07:35):
that and I can provide valuewhen I get through that.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
That's interesting, man Cause my brain is going a
million different directionsright now because thinking about
for me personally, what is that?
But also for our listeners,like the willingness to run into
pain, run into the fire.
It really goes hand in handwith that last episode about
fear.
I think there's a risk and feartolerance of like hey, there's
certain people that are willingto endure a certain amount of
(08:03):
pain because they're like I wantto be to this certain place in
my life and man, I definitelygot there in my life.
I was like I don't want to wakeup and be.
I don't want to do that.
I'm going to live until I'm 65and then, hopefully, can retire
on a beach somewhere.
You know what I'm saying.
Like that doesn't sound like alife I want to live.
Like I want to enjoy andexperience life now.
In order to do that, you haveto break the mold right, and
(08:26):
it's like it goes back to likethe comfort thing.
It's like, but I want to be ina bigger house, I have a nicer
car and go on.
You know, it's like I want allthose other things, but that
flies in the face sometimes cannot always, but sometimes flies
in the face of well, but also Iwant more time and I want more.
You know, I want more peace, Iwant more stillness and all
those things.
So how would you, how would youhelp us, as leaders, navigate
(08:48):
this thing?
Because, again, you know I'm aseven on the integrated pain is
not something that I enjoyliving in right.
But how?
What are some practical toolswe can do when we experience
pain?
Right, so it's inevitable, it'sgoing to happen as leaders,
it's going to happen.
But when that happens, what dowe do with it?
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Yeah I think you talked about this before and I
remember reading this as wellthat Richard Rohr talks about
pain is the gateway to thesecond half of life.
Yep, right, so I thinkrecognizing it for what it
really is is.
I think pain is revelatory.
Yeah, you know, like if youhave a pain in your body, that's
your brain saying, hey,something's wrong with your knee
or your back or your head.
(09:28):
You should do something aboutthat, like, don't ignore it.
I think a lot of us.
Our first step is to takesomething that makes the pain go
away, rather than find out, hey, what caused the pain.
Like I want to deal with thesymptoms of this pain, but I
don't really want to deal withthe cause of that pain.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Yeah, man that's I'm guilty of that and leadership.
I think a lot of leaders wouldrather ignore the pain.
It's like we joke before.
It's like it's my daughter'sthe check engine light comes on
in her car and oftentimesthey'll drive around for weeks
and it'll be like, oh, dad, mycar broke down or it's having
this issue and I'll go and lookat it, I'll be able to check
(10:04):
engine lights.
And how long has it been on for?
Oh, that light, I don't evenknow what that does.
That's been on for weeks.
I'm like well, that was thereto tell you that a problem's
gonna come.
It's gonna be worse if youdon't pay attention to it.
And I just wonder how many of us, as leaders, were willing to
just drive around with a checkengine light on for weeks,
months, years and then wonderwhen something in our
(10:24):
organization or in our companyor in our own personal lives
implodes.
Well, there was warning signsall along you to pay attention
to, but our unwillingness tolook and pay attention to pain I
love that you said that, causeI think that is so, so key to
allow ourselves to feel it butthen move past that into all
right.
It's a symptom of something.
(10:44):
This pain is telling mesomething.
I wanna address it.
What do we do when we get tothat point?
If we're willing to like take alook at it and say, okay,
there's a pain point, I'mfeeling it, I'm gonna allow
myself to feel it.
But now I'm in a place where,well, I need to do something
about it.
I just wanna just live in pain.
What does that next step looklike for us as leaders?
Speaker 1 (10:59):
I think it might be leveraging the pain Like there's
upside, once you understand.
Okay, this is here and I'm thekind of leader that can get
through this, not talking aboutbootstrap, and say, no, let's
evaluate it, what's it there for?
What can I turn this into?
How can I make this weaknessmore of a strength?
And so I think it's.
How do we leverage the painthat we experience in leadership
(11:20):
?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
I also wonder how often we can actually do it on
our own.
You know, I just think that.
The car example I need amechanic.
If I'm feeling pain, I need adoctor.
A physical pain, I'm gonna needa doctor.
If I'm having some mental oremotional pain, I'm gonna need a
therapist, or I'm gonna need ayou know or a friend or
something else.
It's gonna be a leadership.
If I'm, if we're going throughsome pain points and leadership,
(11:42):
I'm gonna need some help.
I'm gonna need some.
It could be someone already onmy team, it could be a leader of
mine, it could be a mentor.
But I'm just curious how muchof the of the pain can we
actually navigate throughourselves?
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah, we we love self diagnosis.
Yeah Right, yeah, I have ADHD.
Like did you get diagnosed withthat?
No, I just can't pay attention.
We love to have a label for thething that pains us.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Because it feels like it gives us some type of
identity or maybe power overthat and you're like you're not
actually dealing with whatyou're you're challenged with
and I like the idea of bringingsomeone else in and be like, no,
can you see this differentlythan I do?
Like I'm so close to this painthat I'm experiencing that I
don't really see what it's for.
Can you help me make sense ofthis and it's.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
It's what it's really what we love doing with
fraction X, because we lovegetting our hands dirty with
leaders.
Like we don't want to be theweb MD of leadership, where you
just Google something and youhear it and you're like, try it,
like I think that's kind ofwhat you're saying.
It's like when you're feelingpain.
A lot of people want to selfdiagnose.
They want to go online and belike oh, I think I have this.
Well, oftentimes it's poorlydiagnosed or it's they make it
(12:44):
worse than what it is orwhatever else.
It's like it's not until you gosee someone or you're with
someone that can actually helpyou look at it and navigate the
next steps through it.
But any, any final words onthis.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Yeah, I think you know, when we talked about the
work on it calendar, um, in aprevious episode, I said there's
this turning points profilethat we do sometimes when we're
helping leaders understand theirbusiness and when we go
backwards in our organization oreven if we just go backwards in
our own leadership story.
We rarely are going back andlooking at highlights like man.
(13:16):
It was so dope when we sold,you know, a million units of
this.
Right, those are great moments,but so much when we're looking
back in the review.
We're looking at moments whenwe overcame adversity, when we
overcame a pain point, when weovercame something that probably
should have crippled ourbusiness or crippled our
leadership, and somehow we gotthrough it.
Like those moments are themoments like that built our
(13:36):
business.
That's the story of our company.
We could have, should have,shut down.
We found a way around it andnow you know, like anything that
comes down the pipe in thefuture, dude, we can handle this
.
Like we got this.
So, matt, last episode we talked about fear,
and you know, kind of the uglystep cousin to fear is pain,
right, they kind of.
They kind of go hand in handand it's something that a lot of
leaders experience or arecurrently experiencing.
So we want to dedicate anepisode to almost the value.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
These are such uplifting episodes.
Let's talk about fear, failureand pain.
Tune in, put a smile on yourface.
I know, dude.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Well, it's like it's so many of us are living in
these places, like in leadershipI don't know if we said this on
the podcast or before, but thehigher up you get in leadership,
it's problem solving, it'sputting out fires.
You think if I get to be aleader, then I get to really
like shape my own destiny andI'm just vision all the time and
you direction Most of the time.
You're just spending more timesolving problems, which can be
(01:04):
painful.
So anyways, you were.
You've had some great insightson, specifically on on pain.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
I love to think about pain.
Wake up, think about pain.
The older you get, the morepain you have.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I was going to say you can't help but think about
pain.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
No, I just you know, every once in a while I have
these decent ideas are notalways there, but I was.
We were driving, my wife and Iwere driving away from
Earrington Vineyard.
This was probably like 10 or 15years ago it was a long time
ago and it was a longer drivehome because we lived in, like
West Nashville and this is likea 45 minute, you know drive or
something like that.
And I just had this idea.
I was like, man, comfort's thegoal, Like I want to be
(01:37):
comfortable.
You know, I was like, oh, butcomfort's the enemy, like you
just don't get anywhere goodwhen you're comfortable.
And so I think it's funny tojuxtapose comfort and pain,
because I do think they gotogether, but I don't think
people think about them the sameall the time.
Right, and I think, if I backup and want to unpack that
statement, it's like man, I wantto have resources, I want to go
(01:58):
on great vacations, I want tobe able to play golf when I want
to, I want to be able toprovide for my kids, I want
comfort.
And the problem is, the morecomfortable you get, the less
chance you have to actuallyreally chase any of those things
, because you get reallycomplacent and there's not a lot
of value in being comfortable.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah that's so true.
Well, a word that we like touse a lot in our organizations
is Lord Passion.
Right, that's a more pleasantway of saying it.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
What are you?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
passionate about?
What do you love?
What are you like?
That's a reframing of pain.
Well, I think so.
I mean, chip Dodd has got agreat definition of passion,
which is the willingness toendure pain for something
greater than pain.
So if I'm passionate aboutsomething, it means, hey, I will
endure a certain measure ofpain because what I'm passionate
about, what I love, so you're.
I'm passionate about my family,okay, well, what pain are you
(02:47):
enduring to provide for them, tobe for them, whatever?
If I'm passionate about myorganization?
So I think a lot of times wesay passion, we forget that
that's actually saying I'mwilling to endure an immense
amount of pain for somethingthat's greater than this pain.
But there is an endurance.
You know part of it.
You know, and I was.
I was telling you about thisbasketball player, giannis.
(03:07):
I don't even pronounce his lastname.
It was like Enta Ticcumpo orsomething like that.
He sounds amazing.
Yeah Well, my wife and I werewatching this documentary on
Giannis and I don't knowanything about his life.
I don't know what to say abouthis life in Greece because they
call him the Greek freak.
But come to find out is, Ithink it was Ethiopia is where
his family is from.
They're refugees.
They they fled to Greece forimmigrants there and the whole
(03:28):
documentary was about hispassion, which was when he
discovered he had a gift forplaying basketball.
His whole life became I want toplay basketball because I got
to get my family out of here, Igot to provide for my family and
he became a laser focus on.
This is the path to my familyand for my brothers.
He had little brothers.
He told stories about it beingso dangerous to walk through the
(03:50):
streets because they weren'twanted there in Greece.
It's funny how they want themthere now that he plays
basketball.
They played for the Greeknational team, but when he was a
kid they didn't want them there.
And how he would come up withgames to trick his little
brothers into running home sothey didn't have to feel the
fear of like, hey, their lifewas actually in jeopardy, right,
and so placing his career, hemakes it to the NBA, but he
(04:12):
can't get his, his family, herebecause of visa reasons.
And he goes in the front officeand he basically says, if you
can't get him here, I'm done,I'm out, I'm going to quit, I'm
going to go back home, becausethe whole reason why I'm doing
this is the whole reason whywe've endured all this pain, why
I'm doing all this stuff, is toget them out of here, to get
them safe, right, and I was somoved by that.
I was like man, the things thathe was willing to do, but he
(04:35):
never lost focus of his why, oflike, why is he doing this?
And so I think for us asleaders and in our organizations
, it's like we can talk passion,but if we're unwilling to
embrace pain, to look at pain,to understand that that's going
to be a major part, a majorcatalyst to our growth and our
(04:57):
success is going to be the painwe're willing to endure, then
we're going to miss it, we'renever going to get to our
intended destination.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
And I don't think we're talking about like
devastating levels of pain.
Obviously those things canshape someone, that can be a
catalyst for change, but pain isalmost like a bit of a
challenge.
You know, you can be underchallenged, you can be over
challenged, you can beappropriately challenged.
And there was this long termstudy done on kids born in 1920,
1921.
These kids went through theGreat Depression right, and it
(05:30):
wasn't the rich kids who did thebest.
They didn't feel the effects ofthe Great Depression
significantly right, so they hadfine lives because they weren't
massively affected.
But they weren't the heroes ofthe study, the kids who, like
their parents, abandoned themand their lives was a complete
train wreck.
They didn't do well either, butit was kind of that lower
middle class that went throughthe Great Depression that at 10
(05:51):
years old they were taking jobs,they were wearing hand-me-down
clothes, they didn't know wheretheir next meal was coming from,
but they survived that.
The long term study showed thatthese were some of the most
successful adults that lived notjust like on purpose and
successful, but grateful andsuccessful.
They had such a gratitude forwhere they were and you know
(06:12):
when you can look back and say,man, I made it through that.
If I can get through that, Ican get through this, and so I
think pain helps giveperspective.
Totally, you know, and whatkind of put me on, you know,
this conversation today was likewe just don't let our kids
experience pain and suffering,you know, and of course we don't
want them to like, as parents,like, oh, I don't want you to go
through that.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah, we actually feel like that's our whole job.
Right Is to keep them fromexperiencing pain.
I mean, I know I do.
I'm convicted by that.
I'm like man, I don't want mykids to experience any kind of
pain.
Ultimately, I don't want toeither.
Right, of course, right, butnow it's like, okay, but I'm
willing to endure pain.
I'm passionate about my kidsnot enduring pain.
Man, it's just such a poorteacher for what?
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Real life is gonna be and you just don't develop any
type of coping mechanisms orstrategies.
And I don't mean like unhealthycoping, I mean going oh no,
there's more to me, like I canget through this.
And so I think one of thethings that I wrote down was
there's a pain that you leaninto that other people lean away
from.
There's a fire that you'rewilling to rush into that others
(07:15):
run away from, and that's yourleadership superpower.
Like I don't know what that is.
You know, I think I've got apretty good idea what that is
for me.
Some people, when I say that,they're like oh yeah, I'm
willing to do this and no oneelse is willing to do that.
And I'm not talking abouteffort, I'm talking about like
I'm just more comfortablestepping into that stress or
that pain or that discomfortbecause I know I can deal with
(07:35):
that and I can provide valuewhen I get through that.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
That's interesting, man Cause my brain is going a
million different directionsright now because thinking about
for me personally, what is that?
But also for our listeners,like the willingness to run into
pain, run into the fire.
It really goes hand in handwith that last episode about
fear.
I think there's a risk and feartolerance of like hey, there's
certain people that are willingto endure a certain amount of
(08:03):
pain because they're like I wantto be to this certain place in
my life and man, I definitelygot there in my life.
I was like I don't want to wakeup and be.
I don't want to do that.
I'm going to live until I'm 65and then, hopefully, can retire
on a beach somewhere.
You know what I'm saying.
Like that doesn't sound like alife I want to live.
Like I want to enjoy andexperience life now.
In order to do that, you haveto break the mold right, and
(08:26):
it's like it goes back to likethe comfort thing.
It's like, but I want to be ina bigger house, I have a nicer
car and go on.
You know, it's like I want allthose other things, but that
flies in the face sometimes cannot always, but sometimes flies
in the face of well, but also Iwant more time and I want more.
You know, I want more peace, Iwant more stillness and all
those things.
So how would you, how would youhelp us, as leaders, navigate
(08:48):
this thing?
Because, again, you know I'm aseven on the integrated pain is
not something that I enjoyliving in right.
But how?
What are some practical toolswe can do when we experience
pain?
Right, so it's inevitable, it'sgoing to happen as leaders,
it's going to happen.
But when that happens, what dowe do with it?
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Yeah I think you talked about this before and I
remember reading this as wellthat Richard Rohr talks about
pain is the gateway to thesecond half of life.
Yep, right, so I thinkrecognizing it for what it
really is is.
I think pain is revelatory.
Yeah, you know, like if youhave a pain in your body, that's
your brain saying, hey,something's wrong with your knee
or your back or your head.
(09:28):
You should do something aboutthat, like, don't ignore it.
I think a lot of us.
Our first step is to takesomething that makes the pain go
away, rather than find out, hey, what caused the pain.
Like I want to deal with thesymptoms of this pain, but I
don't really want to deal withthe cause of that pain.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Yeah, man that's I'm guilty of that and leadership.
I think a lot of leaders wouldrather ignore the pain.
It's like we joke before.
It's like it's my daughter'sthe check engine light comes on
in her car and oftentimesthey'll drive around for weeks
and it'll be like, oh, dad, mycar broke down or it's having
this issue and I'll go and lookat it, I'll be able to check
(10:04):
engine lights.
And how long has it been on for?
Oh, that light, I don't evenknow what that does.
That's been on for weeks.
I'm like well, that was thereto tell you that a problem's
gonna come.
It's gonna be worse if youdon't pay attention to it.
And I just wonder how many of us, as leaders, were willing to
just drive around with a checkengine light on for weeks,
months, years and then wonderwhen something in our
(10:24):
organization or in our companyor in our own personal lives
implodes.
Well, there was warning signsall along you to pay attention
to, but our unwillingness tolook and pay attention to pain I
love that you said that, causeI think that is so, so key to
allow ourselves to feel it butthen move past that into all
right.
It's a symptom of something.
(10:44):
This pain is telling mesomething.
I wanna address it.
What do we do when we get tothat point?
If we're willing to like take alook at it and say, okay,
there's a pain point, I'mfeeling it, I'm gonna allow
myself to feel it.
But now I'm in a place where,well, I need to do something
about it.
I just wanna just live in pain.
What does that next step looklike for us as leaders?
Speaker 1 (10:59):
I think it might be leveraging the pain Like there's
upside, once you understand.
Okay, this is here and I'm thekind of leader that can get
through this, not talking aboutbootstrap, and say, no, let's
evaluate it, what's it there for?
What can I turn this into?
How can I make this weaknessmore of a strength?
And so I think it's.
How do we leverage the painthat we experience in leadership
(11:20):
?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
I also wonder how often we can actually do it on
our own.
You know, I just think that.
The car example I need amechanic.
If I'm feeling pain, I need adoctor.
A physical pain, I'm gonna needa doctor.
If I'm having some mental oremotional pain, I'm gonna need a
therapist, or I'm gonna need ayou know or a friend or
something else.
It's gonna be a leadership.
If I'm, if we're going throughsome pain points and leadership,
(11:42):
I'm gonna need some help.
I'm gonna need some.
It could be someone already onmy team, it could be a leader of
mine, it could be a mentor.
But I'm just curious how muchof the of the pain can we
actually navigate throughourselves?
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah, we we love self diagnosis.
Yeah Right, yeah, I have ADHD.
Like did you get diagnosed withthat?
No, I just can't pay attention.
We love to have a label for thething that pains us.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Because it feels like it gives us some type of
identity or maybe power overthat and you're like you're not
actually dealing with whatyou're you're challenged with
and I like the idea of bringingsomeone else in and be like, no,
can you see this differentlythan I do?
Like I'm so close to this painthat I'm experiencing that I
don't really see what it's for.
Can you help me make sense ofthis and it's.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
It's what it's really what we love doing with
fraction X, because we lovegetting our hands dirty with
leaders.
Like we don't want to be theweb MD of leadership, where you
just Google something and youhear it and you're like, try it,
like I think that's kind ofwhat you're saying.
It's like when you're feelingpain.
A lot of people want to selfdiagnose.
They want to go online and belike oh, I think I have this.
Well, oftentimes it's poorlydiagnosed or it's they make it
(12:44):
worse than what it is orwhatever else.
It's like it's not until you gosee someone or you're with
someone that can actually helpyou look at it and navigate the
next steps through it.
But any, any final words onthis.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Yeah, I think you know, when we talked about the
work on it calendar, um, in aprevious episode, I said there's
this turning points profilethat we do sometimes when we're
helping leaders understand theirbusiness and when we go
backwards in our organization oreven if we just go backwards in
our own leadership story.
We rarely are going back andlooking at highlights like man.
(13:16):
It was so dope when we sold,you know, a million units of
this.
Right, those are great moments,but so much when we're looking
back in the review.
We're looking at moments whenwe overcame adversity, when we
overcame a pain point, when weovercame something that probably
should have crippled ourbusiness or crippled our
leadership, and somehow we gotthrough it.
Like those moments are themoments like that built our
(13:36):
business.
That's the story of our company.
We could have, should have,shut down.
We found a way around it andnow you know, like anything that
comes down the pipe in thefuture, dude, we can handle this
.
Like we got this.
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