Ep. #52: Cole Stevens, CSO of Stevens Trucking Co.

Episode Transcript
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Cole Stevens (01:30):
Let's get the show on the road.

Welcome back to our friends, to our audience
members.
This is Andrew Silver.
I'm the host of the Frey Podand I'm joined today by none
other than Cole Stevens, a guywho I've gotten to know just a
little bit.
I was selling a little productto him at one point and trying
to get him into his TMS worldand just really enjoyed our back

(02:03):
and forth, getting to know youa little bit, seeing we both
come from a similar backgroundin the family business world and
just wanted to have you on theshow and let my world get to
know you a little bit.
Talk about freight, talk aboutrunning an asset-based company
and all the other fun thingsthat might come to mind.
So how are you doing, man?

Absolutely, andrew .
Thanks for having me.
Man, it's been good rightComing off.
The holidays got a littleweather that we were talking
about nice and cold to start offthe new year.
Not a whole lot of golf like Iwould like, but we're just out
here doing this trucking thing.

(02:43):
So thanks for having me.
I really appreciate it and Iappreciate you know drew kind of
name dropping on your podcast.
He's a great friend of mine,just salt of the earth guy.
I think he's going to be wildlysuccessful in the space.
Just a good, good dude.

Yeah, you know, I'll be honest, I was not at all
surprised that he dropped yourname, not that I mean he could
have dropped any name, but itdidn't surprise me that your
name came up because, again,like, I spent a little time
getting to know you as we kindof showed you the mastery TMS
product just to educate you alittle bit on what it looked
like, and one of the things thatI really appreciated was just

(03:31):
how kind of honest andforthcoming you were and how
kind of genuinely sincere youwere about your interest, about
what you thought was cool, whatyou thought could be better.
Like, just you talked aboutdifferent technologies,
different vendors you had seen,and I was like, okay, this guy's
a really good person to dobusiness with, just because,
like they, they give like realfeedback and insightful feedback
and talk well about othercompanies.
And so it was not at allsurprising to me to hear Thruv

(03:54):
come on and say, yeah, cole'sbeen a great partner and you
know.
So, testament to you forcarrying yourself that way,
first and foremost.
But I guess I'll ask a questionwith it Like, is how you carry
yourself in your businessdealings?
Is that intentional?
Like, are you very thoughtfulabout?
Like?
I want to show up a certain way, or is this just kind of the

(04:18):
natural kind of how you are?

I think it's just how I was wired.
Um, you know, everybody, myfather's name's Kenny, that
started our business.
Everybody when I was growing upcalled me mini Kenny and, uh,
that was always my, my nickname,and I think I get that from him
.
You know that we just alwayskind of go, go, go and sometimes

(04:44):
, you know, the uh, the lack offilter can pay off.
It can sometimes, you know,hurt some feelings along the way
, unintentionally.
Um, but you know, I just I justtry to like speak from the heart
, tell people the truth, andit's like, hey, here's my honest
, like thought and opinion, andthat's something I always really
appreciated, like being raisedby, you know, a man and a leader

(05:09):
that carries himself that way.
Is that like you may not agree,you know, with everything that
he says, but like you will walkaway knowing exactly where you
stand with him, right, you know,and he just, I guess, having
that, that leader and thatexample to follow, like just
through life, whether it wassports, uh, you know just your

(05:31):
relationships in school andeducation, and then now getting
into the family business, likethat's all I've ever seen and
that's all that I know, and sothat's kind of, you know, I
would say it's how I am, but itis also how I carry, you know,
my, my business, that that I tryto, you know, make him proud
each and every day.
And I got two brothers in thefamily business that are the

(05:52):
exact same way.
Right, like you know, sometimesyou get to have tough
conversations with the driver,sometimes you get to have tough
conversations with the mechanic,sometimes you get to have tough
conversations with customers.
But, like, if you're justgenuine and you're like, hey,
you know we're not doing a goodjob at this, um, I don't know
that we can handle this, it's alittle outside of our realm.
Or, hey, you know, like, uh,I'm not sure that this is, um,

(06:14):
working with the driver, or ifit is right, like, just be
honest and transparent withpeople, you know, and, and
hopefully it all shakes out inthe wash.
Right, that's what dad alwaystaught us, you know, he he had a
saying growing up.
He said a man's word is all hehas, and once he loses it, he
has nothing.
And it's very true that, like,just give people your word, put

(06:38):
your head down, go to work, dothem a good job.
If you promised it and you know, make it happen.
And then if you're not making ithappen, be honest with them and
be like, hey man, I bit offmore than I can chew whatever
right, and give them honestfeedback because like something
with me, like I love technology,like I really do, like I love,
like how technology can affect,like the human experience within

(07:02):
something that I don't want tosay like is far behind, but like
trucking in general, comparedto some other sectors, is
further behind, especially onthe asset side within.
You know, like the actualtruckload carriage right, like
brokers and 3PLs are muchfurther advanced with their
technology and so I just see theuser experience on some things

(07:25):
aren't you know where I thinkthat they could be.
And you know, trying to kind ofharness and rope in that like
old school mentality with likethe new school usage of emerging
technologies, like it, just ithonestly like infatuates me,
like you know how to accomplishthat with people.

(07:45):
And so to me, if I'm open andhonest about like where I am
with a potential product, thenhopefully, being that end
customer, I'm going to end upgetting a better product.
Because I'm open and honest andtransparent with like where I
see things, where I see itfitting within our business,
versus somebody going down arabbit hole, trying to create

(08:07):
something that people don't wantQuite frankly.
I think that's where a lot oflike older TMS products were,
and they, a lot of them, admitthat that hey, we, we like
overbuilt some things that likemaybe don't get used as much,
versus like really like tryingto seek out the customer
experience.
And that's why I reallyappreciated like mine in your
initial conversation was likeyou're asking me hey, what do

(08:30):
you like, what do you not like?
Right, doing genuine customerdiscovery, versus just going out
and just building everythingknown to man.
You know what I mean Likewasting a lot of capital, not
being able to move quick becauseyou're trying to do something
outside of maybe even what yourcustomer's desire is Right.
And so I feel like that's whereyou and I really aligned well

(08:52):
is like hey, just becomeobsessive over like the customer
experience and just be open andhonest with each other about
whether it's a good fit or not.
You know and what you like andwhat you don't like, because you
can take that feedback andharness it.
You know and what you like andwhat you don't like because you
can take that feedback andharness it.

You know, I mean a hundred percent, it's, it's,
you know.
Just to speak to the last point, I think you and I probably
sell very similarly, manageourselves in our businesses,
similarly, just in the sense oflike.
For me, selling was never aboutlike ramming a product down
your throat and like reallyhammering at home, as much as it
was just trying to understandwhat this person was looking for

(09:30):
and if it made sense for us tobe continuing our conversation,
whether that was in my time, youknow, helping my father at
mastery, or you know really mostof my career selling freight.
Um, because it's not one sizefits all and it's not always
going to be a partnership thatmakes sense.
And I think a lot of youngsellers are so eager to get

(09:52):
business that they prioritizegetting business over getting
the right business.
And you get the right businessby partnering with people who it
makes sense to partner with.
And that's what happens throughmore kind of natural curiosity
and asking the right questionsto understand, like, is this the
right profile for what I haveto offer?
Yep, so, but you know you saida lot there and I want to get

(10:16):
into all of it.
I mean especially you know someof your notes around where
technology is for assetcompanies relative to some of
the brokers.
And then just I mean the wayyou talk about your dad and I've
always kind of sensed this isthere's such a level of respect
and appreciation for everythingthat he's kind of guided you to

(10:37):
I wouldn't say given you, butreally just put you in a
position to learn from.
And I feel like you've got 100quotes you could throw out at
any point lessons learned fromyour father.
So we're going to get into that,but I think it would only be
appropriate, before we do so, ifwe give the audience an
understanding of this business.
You're a part of this business.

(10:57):
Your father started Kenny fromday one.
So can you kind of take us backand walk us through kind of the
story of Stephen Strucking, howit came to be what your father
initially was setting out to doand what the growth journey has
looked like?

Yeah, absolutely so.
My father, Kenny, started thecompany back in 1979.
So you know, we just celebrated45 years back in July of 24.
So we're coming up on on 46years of him, you know, starting
out with a single hot shotpickup truck.
You know, as he says, he wasthat young kid, you know, trying

(11:36):
to sell and trying to get work.
You know he drove a one ton hotshot pickup truck in the
Oklahoma oil patch, hot shotpickup truck in the Oklahoma oil
patch.
And so he likes to joke thatyou know, his first six months
in the business he hauled morein the floorboard of his truck
than he ever did on the actualtrailer.
Um, just because he was justgetting the scraps and just, you
know, taking whatever he couldget Right.

(11:58):
And you know, I think there's ahuge lesson with that is that
sometimes you do, you knowyou're not always going to find
just the perfect customer outthere You've got your target,
but also to sometimes you justgot to get a little bit of
hustle and it's a, it's a mixRight.
And so fast forward to the latenineties.
You know he was sorry, my, mydeals, my, my motion sensor

(12:24):
lights here, with us being super, uh, environmentally friendly,
decided to go out, um, but youknow he he was in just the old
field, um, into the latenineties.
And then as he tells a story,you know oil gets down to like
$8 a barrel and it's just brutal, right.
And he ends up being like, hey,we got to diversify a little

(12:46):
bit, we cannot just be in such avolatile, commoditized oil and
gas business, um, falling forthat Right.
And so you know he startedhauling clutches that actually
went in our trucks for Eatoncorporation because they had a
facility in Oklahoma city.
And then we started haulingchassis and containers for Hobby
Lobby container because theywere also facility in Oklahoma
City.
And then we started haulingchassis and containers for Hobby
Lobby Container because theywere also our neighbor right

(13:07):
around the corner.
And then that built up enoughfor him to be able to purchase
his first dry van trailer to dotruckload dry van freight.
I believe it's like 1999.
And so you know we've been atthe dry van freight business now
and expanded from, you know,that one truck and oil and gas
to about 400 tractors and 1800dry van trailers across the US.

(13:32):
And you know we specialize indrop and hook operations.
So a lot of differentautomotive parts, a lot of
different recycle parts, whetherit's paper, you know, plastics,
pallets, all those differenttypes of things that are very
trailer to tractor ratio heavy,where you need to try to do some
more asset management andtrailer pooling, um, you know,

(13:53):
which I think is different thana lot of people that just do.
You know, one truck, onetrailer, one load, right, um.
And so he took that just intime methodology from the oil
field and he instilled that intous, which is why I feel like
we've been successful in thedrive-in freight business,
because we got to get stuffmoved Right, um, and we got to

(14:14):
get it there on time.
And what's crazy, andrews, likewhen I started in the business,
you know everything was like theoil field hotshot side.
We were about 60% drive in, 40%oil field back in, uh, 2015,.
Whenever I first started, andyou know it was crazy stressful,

(14:34):
you know, all this stuff on theoil field side and then on the
freight side, it was just like,well, you know the mentality was
like, if you just get it thereon the day, like it's on time,
right, and that's how, likecustomers and shippers, like
genuinely like scorecarded, andyou know what I mean Like
managed it.
It wasn't down to the minute,like 10 years ago.
And then you really saw thisexplosion with, you know, kind

(14:56):
of the Amazon effect, as somepeople call it, with, like
tracking and tracing, theemergence of four guys, project
44 and like all the leaninventory things that you know
people have moved to within thesupply chain and so, like now,
every single load, whether it'struck load, partial, you know,
hot shot on the flatbed side,still to this day it's hot, it's

(15:18):
got to go and it better be ontime to the minute right, the
minute Right, and I feel likethat's why we've been pretty
successful.
You know, recently is we justcarry that same mentality that
dad started with and he's beendoing it for 45 years.
Man, he's, he's awesome.
I'd love for you to get achance to meet him in person
someday.
You know he's a really cool,cool character.

(15:39):
Um, you know it was a coolexperience getting to meet your
dad too.
Man, just kind of like almostlegends within like the supply
chain space that like they do itbecause they're passionate you
know what I mean Like they'rejust, they're here every day,
like I could just hear it, youknow, in Jeff's voice.
He's like he eats it forbreakfast, lunch and dinner and

(15:59):
fourth meal, taco bell style,like it.
Just you know what I mean.
It's part of who they are, andso I did.
When you see that as a child,like growing up, but then as a
child of the business too, whenyou kind of step into a bit of
those shoes, it's almost easybecause you're just like dude,

(16:20):
that's all I know.
You know what I mean, like, andhe's here.
He's still here every day.
I could open my door right nowand he's probably within 10
steps of here.
He's one of the first peoplehere, he's one of the last
people to leave, like, that'sjust who he is and that's why
he's been successful in truckingis because, like, he cares
about drivers, he cares aboutpeople, he cares about customers
and getting their goodsdelivered.

(16:41):
You know, and it's like so whenyou mix those three together
and then the fact that he'spretty good at geography and
math, like that helps intrucking right, and you know
he's instilled some really goodstuff.
I feel like in all of us youknow my two brothers it's great
to get to go to work every dayand battle in the trenches, you

(17:01):
know, with them, and it's a coolexperience, man, you don't
realize, like, how different itis, until you talk to people
that, like they don't have thatRight.
Um, and it's a really cool dealto get to work with your family
.

Yeah, yeah, you know it's interesting.
There's so much I could pullout of that now and I will.
I'm taking notes over here andum, so I don't forget these
questions cause I will forget.
But yeah, you know, youmentioned meeting my dad and
hearing you talk about your dad,just it, it.
It brings me back to thinking.
Watching my own father and Ithink that's one of the cooler

(17:37):
things for me is you know, whatmy father's trying to build now
or is building with his team atMastery is far and away the
hardest thing he's ever done inhis life, and I see it on his
face.
I see it in how he approachesthe problems, but like he
doesn't need to be doing it,like he doesn't.
He sold his, he built Coyoteinto this great business.

(17:59):
It was acquired by UPS.
He made plenty of money wherehe did not need to keep working
in his 50s and now in his 60s.
And yet every day, like thehighlight of his day, like when
you and I met with him andDanielle, you could see the
excitement, as he was listeningto you and understanding the
problems that you're dealingwith.

(18:25):
It's like that's what gets guyslike him and your father up
every day is like the idea oflike solving these problems for
other people and helping maketheir lives easier.
It's like there's no amount ofretirement or beach or you know
vacations, skiing, whatever itis.
That, I think, gives peoplelike that the level of
fulfillment they get, yeah, fromhelping people in the way that
they do.
Yep, I agree, you could run youand your brothers could run you

(18:51):
and your brothers could runyour business today and it would
do great Like you've learned somany lessons from your father
and the other people in thebusiness that you could do it
without him.
The business is not likeneeding him in there every day,
yet he still shows up and it'sbecause he gets fulfillment out
of.
You know getting that driver ontheir next load.
You know hearing that phonecall from a customer that one of

(19:13):
your drivers like did somethingthat really helped them out,
like that sense of pride is likeso powerful.

I feel like, oh, he's so, he's so funny and you
hit the nail on the head.
I mean, literally right beforewe hopped on, he was like
literally just over my shoulderback here looking at like what
project that I'm working on andwhat, what customer's that for
you know, and just like he's soinvolved, like you said he
doesn't have to be, but like heloves it, yeah, and that's like

(19:42):
what he knows.
I mean, I was actually justlistening to Bezos talk about
work-life harmony, versus likehaving to feel like this
work-life balance and that ifyou give too much to one, that
it takes away from the other.
And I just loved how he putthat, because I feel like it can
be misunderstood sometimes forbusiness owners like your dad

(20:08):
and my dad that people thinkthat like oh, that they have to
do this, and it's like no,that's what gives them
fulfillment with their day,because this business is what
has given them the opportunityto give back to people.
Or maybe what they're giving istheir you know, their intellect
and their experience and theirknowledge.

(20:28):
Right, and like that to me is socool to just like watch, you
know him light up, you know atthe same time, but also then
people that get to meet him andbe like, oh wow, you know like
you're, you're Kenny, likeyou're the guy Right, and it's
cool to watch those interactions, cause like he's just, he's

(20:49):
just dad.
You know what I mean and like,but he's amazing.
It's amazing to watch him justlike move and be, because you're
like that guy has so muchexperience in like real life
knowledge in this space andagain, you know, in your heart
you're like he's here justbecause he chooses to be, not
because he has to be.
You know, and it's cool gettingto like see them kind of like

(21:10):
bouncing around like adams orsomething, just kind of bump
into each other as people, andyou're like you get to watch
those moments.
You're like that's really cool.

You know, it's really really cool what he's
built so I want you to try tosummarize for me in a couple
points.
Clearly, your father and hisand your, your brothers,
yourself and the rest of yourteam have built something
special right to go from to,from, from one pickup truck to

(21:40):
400 commercial tractors with1,800 trailers and like a
well-established, well-reputedbusiness in the industry, some
things have to go really welland the company, the team, has
to be doing a few things verywell.
So let me ask you this from ahigh level If you look at the

(22:01):
last 10, 20 years of extremegrowth, what are a couple things
that have really, really beenkeys to the success of this
business and the growth.

You know, it's kind of the Elon Musk theory,
right, if your competition'sworking 40 hours a week and
you're working 80, you'regetting twice the opportunities.
And that's not to say that we'reconstantly all working 80 hours
a week, but collectively, as afamily.
You know, like I said, my dadwakes up every day and chooses
to do that.
And it's Saturday, it's Sunday,right, and some people could

(22:43):
think that that's exhausting,but we shoulder, you know, that
workload with a lot of pride,knowing that like, hey, we, we
provide an opportunity toemployment for our people and we
genuinely care about our people.
So like, yeah, I may have towork on Saturday or Sunday and I
may have to pick up the phone,you know, while I'm at one of my
kids' ball games or something,but like that's what's gotta be

(23:04):
done.
You know, and and you know Iwould say, hard work, obviously.
You know I know it sounds cornysometimes, but like that it
gives you more opportunities.
The more time you spend withinthe business, the more
experience and knowledge you'regoing to have within that space.
You know, whether you're in themedical field education
government, like it doesn'tmatter If you're spending time

(23:26):
working on your craft.
I feel like you're going to getbetter and we're super
fortunate.
You know that my dad'ssister-in-law has been here for
40 years.
My dad's been here for 45.
My oldest brother, chad's beenhere for 22 years.
My sister-in-law, jesse's beenhere for 21 years.
That's his wife.
My brother Eric's been here for12, 13 years and then I've been

(23:50):
here for coming up on 10.
I mean so, like just theexperience, I guess within the
business has allowed us tothrive in some downtime.
So I would definitely say hardwork and then also just that
experience level within thespace that we're operating in
provides us a big advantage.

(24:10):
And then I would also say likecohesiveness as an upper
management team, just because,like some people ask, they're
like how do you do it Right andit's kind of a simple answer is
because you have to, and it'skind of a simple answer it's
because you have to.
So when you create somethingwithin an org and it's a
workflow that you forcesomething to happen, it creates

(24:34):
efficiency because you're nothaving a second guess If I say,
hey, person A has to go talk toperson B to get it cleared
before it goes to person C.
Well then, person A knows thatthey have to go talk to person B
, right?
Well, my entire family's inthis business.
So guess what?
We have to figure it out Like.
It's kind of simple.

(24:55):
You know, the business has tocome first with the decision.
It's not about my middlebrother, eric.
It's not about youngest son,cole.
It's not about oldest brother,chad, and maybe what we want for
our silo within the business.
It's about what is best forStevens Trucking.
Genuinely, we analyze that typeof stuff when we make our

(25:16):
decisions and that's what itcomes down to.
I'm kind of the strategy, sales,contract pricing, emerging
technology guy, a a little moreforward facing and sometimes
outside the business, while mytwo older brothers do a lot more
of like the management ofpersonnel and drivers and the
day-to-day operations andexecution with equipment on the

(25:37):
operator side.
And so sometimes you win andsometimes you lose, but you're
always winning if you ultimatelylike make your true North.
What's best for your businessRight and that to me is where we
work really well together is nomatter what.
At the end of the day, you kindof have to right Cause like we
have to be successful.
We're all in this businessunless, you know, unless I want

(25:57):
to have to find a new way tofeed my children.
Right, like, maybe Cole's notright today, right, but you know
, as a whole, stephen's truckingwill be in the end.

Yeah, I'm curious because you're you're you're
hitting so much on the familyoriented nature of the business
that we should talk about it alittle bit.
I have my own feelings, havingworked in what wasn't a formal
family business but where therewere family marks all over the
business, and I'm just curious,like let's start with some of

(26:33):
the positives, Give me a littlebit of both.
So like I guess, to start, wereyou always going to work in the
business or did you ever evenconsider not staying in the fam?
Well, staying in the fam, butnot staying in the business.
Or did you ever even considernot staying in the fam?

Well, stay in the fam but not staying in the
family business.
It's.
It's kind of funny because,like people ask all the time,
you know, did you like grow upthere?
And yeah, we spent like a lotof time because dad was in the
business, but, honestly, like Idon't know, not to just try to
keep pumping them up, but he'skind of like Superman, like
genuinely he made the workhappen but he didn't bring it
home somehow and so like heprotected us, like from the

(27:11):
business and from feeling likewe had to do that.
Um, you know, each one of us isfortunate enough to be college
educated, so we went to schoolafter we didn't just jump right
into the family business Um, wedidn't just jump right into the
family business, but our lifepaths all led all three of us
sons into the family businessand into roles that I feel like

(27:32):
suit us incredibly well.
You know, honestly, like Iplayed baseball my whole life
growing up, I genuinely thoughtI had an opportunity to play
professional baseball, whetherthat was at a low level or at a
high level, you know, and Iwanted to pursue that, ended up
getting hurt, finished myeducation at the University of
Oklahoma and jumped right intofamily business, being, you know

(27:55):
, the last brother, the youngest, into the business.
You know, same thing mybrother's got his MBA.
He really wasn't necessarilyplanning on getting into the
business, but his life path alsoled him here a couple of years
before me.
And so it's like I don't know.
Sometimes, at the end of the day, andrew just feels like meant
to be, because like it wasn'tforced, like that's what you

(28:17):
know.
People ask did you know aboutall this stuff?
I'm like no, like I didn'tstart learning it until I got
here, genuinely Like dad.
Dad was very good about tryingto not force what he did onto us
boys.
You know, he really let uschoose our own path and it just
so happened to all lead here.
Yeah, he's behind my camera,right?

now telling me to say this yeah, yeah, say this
now here's your card.
Yeah, exactly, yeah, he's gotthe cards for you, yeah.
So let's, let's, let's talkabout the more challenging parts
of being in a family business,like for one, like what, what,

(29:00):
what have been some of the moredifficult aspects of working.
You know, side-by-side withyour brothers, for your father,
what are the hard parts of ofthat reality.

There's different personalities, right, and so
like I feel like if it was, youknow, regular coworker, right,
like you can go home and you canvent to your spouse about that,
right, that's a massive no, no,like you don't.
You don't ever talk negativelyabout your family, right, so
like sometimes, even if you havea disagreement you know what I

(29:32):
mean you keep everything civil.
But like sometimes you got tobottle it up because you're like
I'm I'm not going to, you know,speak illy about, like my
brother or something to my wife.
Right, and so like sometimespeople get a bit of that vent, I
think, when they go home.
Um and like, again, our liferevolves around the business.

(29:53):
So sometimes you do have toshoulder that.
Right, but again, it helps yousleep at night, even though it
would be considered a negativeto most people.
Like it helps you sleep atnight knowing that you're doing
what's best, like, for yourfamily unit.
Like people probably thinkwe're insane.
But like do we live on the samecompound?
I was telling you about my dogsearlier.

(30:14):
Like we literally lay, live onthe same large piece of property
.
Um, we vacation together, wework together.
Like my brothers are my bestfriends.

Yeah, each of your brothers has a house on the
same compound, yep and your dadand dad.

Yeah, that's awesome, yeah, and what's great.
Like, like I said, I went offto college, you know, played
ball across the country, lived acouple of years in Phoenix,
arizona, so like we've all goneout and done our own things.
It's not like, oh, you know, wewe started building these
houses when these boys were 10or something like.
No, we, we genuinely love andcare about each other and we
want our kids to have the samelike cohesive family unit

(30:56):
experience that we did growingup as kids and like you know,
but why not?
It's like I enjoy hanging outwith my, with my brothers, and I
enjoy hanging out with myfather, like he's, you know, one
of the closest people in myentire life and you know I feel
like did a great job as abusinessman, but also as a

(31:18):
father that, like his kids wantto be around him.
You know, like there, there areworse things in life that you
see, Right, um, and so I'm justsuper, super fortunate to have
him as a leader.
Um, but it's not lip service,man.
Like you know, he didn't uh, hedidn't like tie us down and say

(31:38):
, hey, I built y'all houses,come, come, move in.
Like you know, it was adecision that my wife and I made
, and and so did all thebrothers.
And like, again, we livetogether, we, we, we play
together, we vacation.
You know what I mean.
Like we do all those types ofthings because we enjoy each
other's company, you know.
But, like you said, sometimesthere are, there are

(32:00):
disagreements, so you have toshoulder it Because, again,
you're not going to vent.
If you do, that's a reallyquick way to tear apart a family
business, and those I feel likeare the stories that you hear
about is that they can'tnecessarily put the family
business and the mission overone of the individual
personalities.

(32:21):
You know it could be whetherthere's two people, four people,
six people from the same family, whatever it is, in the same
business.
Like you just have to keep thattrue North and realize that I
joke with people all the time.
Like my wife is the closestperson in my life.
Do I agree with my wife onevery single thing?
And the answer is no, right.

(32:41):
Like she is my best friend, sheis, and and she's who I lean on
the most, um, but do I agreewith her on everything?
No, so why would I expect toget along with my brothers or a
coworker?
You know what I mean who's alittle further extended from
that family circle.
So it's like, don't take lifetoo seriously and get so wrapped
up in.
I got to be right, you know.

(33:02):
Again back to dad's sayings.
He always says the cost ofbeing right can be incredibly
high, and that's it's somethingthat sometimes I have to bite my
tongue Cause I'm like it's notworth being right right now,
whether that's with family, witha customer.
Like sometimes you may knowyou're right, but sometimes you
need to, you need to be slow, toslow to speak and bite that

(33:25):
tongue and just be like you knowwhat it's not worth being right
, because that could come at areally, really high cost yeah,
I've heard a similar one from myown father and that's one
that's been hard for my dumbbrain to accept.

The stubborn part of my brain is like but I am
right, and it refuses to acceptthe cost it will pay to confirm
that was right.
Yeah, there's plenty ofexamples for me to lean on to
show that that that theory is istrue.
But, um, all right, well listen, let's, let's move off the, the
, the family stuff for a bithere.

(34:01):
Let's transition.
So part of your role is, as youmentioned, kind of emerging
technologies, and you had talkedabout how I mean we can both
acknowledge the industry ingeneral is generally behind as
it relates to implementingtechnology to be more efficient

(34:23):
and even more so within that,asset carriers tend to be
further behind than the brokersare.
So talk a little bit about.
You know your business is alegacy asset-based carrier
trucking company that has a lotof old technology, I'm sure
still kind of within it in somecapacity.

(34:45):
How challenging is it for youto evaluate emerging
technologies and understand whatyou even can implement or the
ROI on implementing something,given that it can be hard to
bring new technology and tie itinto old stuff?

It's a huge lesson that I've had to learn.
Sometimes there's been someincredibly expensive lessons
that I've had to learn and thenwhenever you throw in the human
element and change managementand adoption, that's a whole
nother can of worms internally.
You know, first you got tofigure out can you actually
integrate it with your processand can the technology actually

(35:29):
hold up, and then that's kind ofyou know, domino number one to
fall.
And then you've got to get thebuy-in from the people.
If you come to some type of,you know, technology vendor
agreement as to how you're goingto execute and do the change
management processes to get itactually up and off the ground.
And you know, being overstrategy in my seat, like that,

(35:51):
that's genuinely what I spend alot of time doing.
And you know there's there's athere's a good amount of no's I
will say right, it doesn't meanthat like I'm not open to having
conversations with vendorsabout, like, what they might be
selling.
But again to your point, kindof early in the conversation,

(36:12):
like you just have to be genuinewith people that hey, I've
tested something like that.
We're not even to the point ofbeing able to integrate there,
it's not on our roadmap, wecan't quite go there yet, maybe
in a year, maybe it's two years,maybe it's never right, but
just being able to like identifythose internal points of where

(36:32):
your business is at today andwhat systems that you're using
and what their capabilities are,to me is like one of the most
important aspects of like theasset kind of legacy truck load
side of the business that isfurther behind in technology.
I think I love watching the gamebe played between like the the

(36:56):
asset carrier, and the broker,because it's like this bouncing
ping pong ball of like you knowwhat I mean Like that we're
trying to catch up on technology, the brokers are catching up on
like sourcing the assets, andthen, you know, it goes back,
just back and forth, back andforth, of like just this kind of
neck and neck race and they'rein two, two different races

(37:18):
almost you know what I mean.
It gets like one started wayover here and the other one
started way over here andthey're both going parallel but
they're both kind of movingcloser to center with being able
to like give some of the sameservice offerings, and the asset
side is just hyper-focused ontechnology to catch back up with
where the brokers are, but thenthe brokers are focusing on
things like drop trailers, youknow, short-term trailer rentals

(37:41):
, like solving for the parking,and how to offer things on fuel
that typically only the assetcarriers focused on for 20, 25
years or whatever.
So that's why I like havingconversations with like you and
your dad is just seeing likewe're in the same game but we
had two different startingpoints, but those starting
points and the races that we'rerunning are actually just

(38:04):
getting closer and closer andcloser together.
I feel you know, the longerthat time goes on, we we still
have our strong points assets doversus brokers and vice versa.
Uh, but it's really cool to me,like watching, watching that
like rat race almost play out,you know, and just I don't know,

(38:24):
getting to be a part of liketrying to drive some change on
the asset side, cause againthere are some like really
archaic processes, um, but also,too, there's the paradigm of
like new school versus oldschool human beings too, right.
So, like it's, it's cool.

(38:46):
When I started in the business,I started out as a regular sales
rep and the person that I wasmaking sales calls with was
triple my age, almost quadruplemy age, um, cause I was young
and, looking back, you know, Idad, tried to make us work our
way up through the ranks, so Istarted out being a local donut

(39:08):
delivery guy in the oil patchand just slowly worked my way up
to management positions.
But like you look at the factthat, like we've got people you
know, when I started I was 22.
And then we got people that arelike 80, right.
So like not only managingtechnology and whether it's old
or new technology and how tocohesively make those two come

(39:31):
together, but then literally thehuman being side.
That is like hey, I've got this25 year old kid right.
That is like I understand this,I know this, I want to get this
done.
And then you've got more of anold school thinker that might be
between 60 and 80.
That's like, yeah, but like thishas worked and both are right.
But try to get them both to ananswer and an agreement.

(39:53):
Like that's what gets me out ofbed.
Like it really is.
It's like if I can solve that,I'll be so much further ahead
than other people that justthrow their hands up and let
those two people have adisagreement and never make it
come together with a solution tothat problem.
Right Like that, that criticalthinking, and like getting

(40:14):
people in technology togetherand both seeing the pros and
cons of the other side, like Idon't know.
Sometimes I feel like a bit ofa therapist because you have to,
you literally have to put onthe hat for both sides to try to
see it from their perspectiveso that you can explain it to
them and the other side, and Iget a lot of enjoyment out of

(40:35):
like trying to dig and see how Ican solve those problems and
help our company win you knowit's a neat position.

Yeah, I mean, you strike me as someone.
Compassion is a redeemingquality of yours and I think you
have the ability to look at the25-year-old and look at the
65-year-old and connect withboth of them in a way that you
understand, you can suffer withthem and understand the
challenges the 25-year-old andconnect with both of them in a
way that you understand, you cansuffer with them and understand
that the challenges the25-year-old has and the
challenges the 65-year-old has,they both might have the same

(41:09):
job.
They're going at it from twocompletely different
perspectives.
You know the 65-year-old isstill somewhat maybe thinking in
the old school donut deliverymindset of listen.
I know how to get you we.
We have, we get them donuts.
We sit down, we talk to themfor two hours, we figure out how
their kids are doing, then wetalk business.
The 25 year old, with theattention span of a gnat, is

(41:32):
more like I need to craft theperfect email that makes it
clear I can provide value inunder four words yep.
And it's like how do you getthose two worlds to to
intertwine and realize they'reon the same team?
They have two differentapproaches but both can be
successful.
But you have to purchase a toolthat allows both of them to

(41:54):
kind of work efficiently.
So I I feel, for I have I havecompassion for your position and
I'm just curious like youmentioned, the human adoption
piece is one challenge of adopt,of implementing new technology.
Do you have examples historicallessons you've learned, or

(42:16):
examples where, like you,thought you were getting a great
, nifty new technology but theadoption just wasn't there?
And why it wasn't there?
Like what challenges you raninto?
You don't have to call outanybody by name or whatever.
I'm just curious for theaudience man.

We've even built some internal tools and things
like to try to, you know, stackup and add on or, you know,
optimize a workflow or somethingyou know optimize a workflow or
something and spend a goodamount of money doing those and
totally failed on it becausemaybe we weren't good with our
internal delivery, on the actualchange management piece, with

(42:50):
how we were going to roll thatout, and so we never got that
internal champion Right.
And those are, again, expensiveand really tough lessons to
learn.
But there are lessons that haveto be learned if you're gonna
continue to move forward and getto understand how that
technology is going to affectthose people.
And also, too, sometimes it's abit of a sales pitch, right,

(43:12):
just like our fleet managersthat have to sometimes sell a
load to a driver and I knowyou're familiar with that on the
brokerage side right, you'relike man, I really need this guy
or gal to take this freight,and you got to put that sales
hat on.
Sometimes, and a lot of thetime, it's an internal sales
pitch to your people.
And again back to that likeunderstanding the seat that

(43:35):
they're in is that you're tryingto solve a problem for them,
not make it harder for themright, and if you get the
technology right and you do theproper customer discovery and
you can put that sales pitch on.
That's kind of where I failed ata pretty major project here a
couple of years ago that, like Ididn't, we did all the customer
discovery, we had done all thisinternal work, we created this

(43:58):
product and then just couldn'tquite get that internal champion
to grab the bull by the hornsand run with it.
You got to have like all threeof those steps right, and so
that's where some of these newprocesses that are coming on,
before I say yes, I make surethat, like, it is sellable right

(44:20):
, that like, if I'm like, hey,I'm going to add this feature on
, I'm going to add thistechnology on something like
that, it genuinely has to besellable to our internal people,
or else I won't get thatadoption on a technology I just
won't.
Right, you know, if you say,hey, this is going to make your
life easier, and here's howthat's a lot easier of a pill to
swallow than just, hey, theStevens family is just throwing

(44:43):
this stuff downstream hopingsomething sticks Right.
Um, so that's like I said,that's a.
That's a lesson that I've beenfortunate enough to learn.
I mean, you know some, somefailures along the way, um,
admittedly, but I feel likewe've done a really good job as
a family with, like, reelingsome of those back in um and

(45:06):
trying to make some, some pivotshere and there with, okay, you
know, maybe that wasn't quite assuccessful, but here's, here's
the exact path, um, that we'reon, cause it's a journey like
it's not going to stop.
I just think it's going to keeppicking up steam.
Honestly, I mean, technology ismaking the world move so much

(45:26):
quicker that, like, if you don'tkeep moving forward, you will
get left behind.
I genuinely believe that.
I don't think.
I don't think technology willsolve everything.
I mean, who knows, I don't havea crystal ball, right, like it
may solve some major things inmy lifetime.
I don't know that I'm going tohave this robot telling me what

(45:48):
to do and you don't.
I mean, I don't know, maybe,maybe, right, but I know that's
what I mean Like we'll see.
I don't want to sound like ourdads and be like never in my
lifetime, cause then they'llplay that clip back someday and
be like, see, they proved youwrong.
You were wrong about this bigone, right?
Yep, you know, but it can'tstop you from moving forward.

(46:10):
You know, no matter whatno-transcript.

It helps them feel more valuable as their
feedback is heard and makes themthat much more likely to buy
into the product once you kindof go live with it.
But two, they also might bringto the fold some of the
important reasons why youwouldn't have a champion If
you're missing something, ifyou're not catching one piece,
that will impact them in anegative way.

(47:05):
I think I just was listening toa podcast, the Modern Wisdom
podcast, which I don't listen tooften, but I saw Tony Robbins
was on it and I got intriguedand I just, you know, ryan
Peterson told me a little bitabout Tony Robbins.
That got me focused on him.
But in any case he was talkingabout, I think, what he called
it priming and then maybe it wascalled pre-framing, and it's

(47:26):
just the idea that beforethere's an action that's gonna
take place which is you're gonnaimplement a new technology, and
you know a result of that isyour people are gonna kind of
have to absorb that and then useit in some capacity.
You can't control the output,you can't control how they
respond to that new technologybeing implemented, but what you

(47:48):
can control is how they receivethe information about it and so
you can take measures to inadvance, kind of pre-frame them
or prime them to take it in in away that you think will be most
likely for them to accept it.
And what I mean by that isgetting them involved on the
front end.
That's just an ampleopportunity for you to make them

(48:11):
feel more involved and makethem feel like their voice
matters and their feedback isimportant to the business.
And now you've just kind ofchanged the way they receive the
information.
So in one setting you make adecision that impacts them.
You give them that decision.
They receive it by being toldthis is the decision.
Use it.
How they respond their ownemotional stuff may show up.

(48:33):
Their own control stuff mayshow up in a way that makes them
not want to use it.
The alternative way is youbring them in on the front end,
knowing you're contemplatingthis decision.
The alternative way is youbring them in on the front end,
knowing you're contemplatingthis decision so the first
they're hearing about it is notbeing told to use it, versus I
want to hear your perspective onit and then they just they take
it in in such a different waythat makes them more likely to

(48:53):
help you reach your end goal,yep.

And I think that's where I failed, admittedly,
internally was like not, not notpriming that, like we had some,
some basic discussion about itand some kind of what if?
Type discussion, um, and thenyou know again kind of didn't
get it internally primed andthen fully sold with that
internal champion.

(49:16):
I think I'm going to just goput like little mastery logos,
like like just I'm going to hidethem in the paint on the walls
and start priming them to whereit's like.
It's like the marketing dealwhere you get hungry and you're
like man, mcdonald's soundsgreat with the golden arches.
I'm just going to be like likelittle mastery deals, like
everywhere they're not evengoing to know They'll be like
what is that?
And then, like you know, laterdown the road I'll be like and

(49:37):
then, like you know, later downthe road I'll be like dude, I
was priming you the entire time.
The ultimate.
Now you're ready.
Yeah, now you're ready.
Yeah, you didn't even know it,you didn't even know that you
were getting primed right there.

Yep primed you back on the kind of technology
conversation.
What are some of the thingsthat you've been able to
implement in your business inthe last year or two years to
kind of bring about moreefficiency?
Like how, where are you what,what, what areas it does an
asset-based carrier focus on?

(50:15):
Or where do you see the mostopportunity to create kind of
efficiency in the business today?
Because I come from that brokermindset, so it it's a little
different, so I'd love toeducate the audience on, like
where an asset-based carriercould use more technology to be
efficient.

I think one of the greatest decisions that we ever
made was trailer tracking, youknow, and that's through our
telematics provider.
Originally we did it totallymanually so if, for some reason,
somewhere along the line, adispatch was wrong or a trailer
got moved or pulled out.
Now, having 1800 trailers, Ifeel like that's what's allowed

(50:51):
for quite a bit of explosivegrowth on the asset management
trailer side of our business.
I have no idea how we did itbefore.
Quite frankly, we had, you know, probably half the trailers, uh
, before we implemented that.
But that, to me, was one of thebiggest things.
And, like you know, we're we'realmost like a customer of like

(51:11):
our own business model per se.
Right, it's like we needtracking and visibility, just
like a customer does into ourown stuff, because if it's not
right here you know what I meanit's not, it's not tangible.
You don't want it right here, Iwant it out on the roads
picking up and deliveringfreight.
And I feel like that was just ahuge game changer for us is,
you know, picking the rightsoftware and telematics provider

(51:34):
, but also the ones that havethe right hardware for like
whatever your business model is.
Some people, you know ifthey're doing like little
parcels.
I've seen these small trackersand different things that they
just put, you know, in a paletteand it's like, okay, cool If
that's what you're doing, youknow, if you're doing parcels.
I would strongly recommend that, even though I'm not a user,
just because understanding howimportant it is to be able to

(51:57):
just track your own stuff islike bar none.
Like I don't think you couldhardly put a number and value to
that.
If you're like losing trailersall over the country being an
asset carrier, that's not verygood and it's not very efficient
and it's driven a lot ofefficiencies to our business and

(52:17):
also given transparency to ourcustomers.
Because if you get into some ofthe like brokering power only
model, if for some reason,you've got, you know, a truck
breakdown, et cetera, that'swhere the freight is at right.
I'm a huge proponent of, like,smart trailer technology.
I mean, obviously, the tractorsare just incredible nowadays
with what they're souped up withand all the safety tech and all

(52:38):
that is amazing and we, youknow, always do the full suite
of those types of things on ourtractors.
But, like, I think one of thenew huge areas that you're going
to see making big advances isthe smart trailer.
Um, you know that that silowithin the asset side is like
how can you get almost morehardware and more data coming

(53:01):
from the trailer?
You know more and more and more, because again that's where the
cargo is at, whether it's likefraud and theft protection you
know what I mean and like howthat integrates and create some
automated processes, et cetera.
You know, I just think thatthat's going to be a big silo
that takes off because again youcan have all the automated AI
tools that are telling you to dothis, do that, go left, go

(53:30):
right, but ultimately, likethere's a hard asset within that
trailer and I think that'ssomething to be paid attention
to over the coming years.
As these advances in technologykeep coming, I feel like the
smart trailer side has room forgrowth and opportunities.
I really do.

Well, I mean, is it true to say there's a
fundamental flaw in the idea ofbrokers and shippers tracking
drivers through cell phones whenit comes to working with
companies like yourself?
Because there's a reasonablechance that you're going to have

(54:05):
one driver go pick up the loadwith their tractor and it's got
trailer 1, 2, 3, 4, and they'regoing to take it to a certain
point when another driver isgoing to, or they might take it
to the yard and another driveris going to pick up that same
trailer and he's going todeliver it, or he's going to
take it to another city whereyou have a yard, and then maybe

(54:26):
a third driver might grab it andactually deliver the load.
The only constant in a lot ofthese situations is the trailer,
the driver, the driver's cellphone number, the truck.
Those all could be variablesthat whether there's one or
three or five on a given load,anything could happen.
The only thing that doesn'tchange is the trailer.
So should that not be thesingle source of truth,

(54:50):
theoretically, for tracking?

I agree with you.
We've been through that withvarious shippers and various you
know track and trace companiesfor shippers and various you
know track and trace companiesand that's kind of what that's
why we made the capitalinvestment into those trailer
trackers and so any company thathas that capability, that's

(55:13):
what we try to go with.
Right, because, again, you'reexactly right, we run a lot of
hub and spoke model because wetry to optimize our driver's
hours of service.
So, like, if it's a live load,live unload, to try to keep our
our really revenue generatingdrivers OTR and regional moving,
we will do the pickup and thedelivery for them.

(55:33):
So, you're exactly right, likeit could switch between two to
three trucks within the exactsame company.
Because we're trying tooptimize that asset utilization
with that driver's hours ofservice.
That could be a really hardrunner that otherwise would be
sitting there being detained,taking a two-day transit into
three, et cetera.

(55:53):
And you're right, that singlesource of truth and that
constant is the trailer, becausethat's where the cargo is at
and that's what people careabout.
That's what people care aboutIf it goes missing, right?
They're not like, well, where'sthe tractor?
They're like if you could trackthe trailer, they're like
where's my cargo right?
Like that's, that's what everyshipper wants to know.

(56:14):
They don't care.
They don't care if you're abroker, they don't care if you
call yourself a 3PL, a 4PL, anasset carrier hey, where's my
stuff right?
Whether you can't tell themwhere it is or whether there's
been fraud or theft happen.
And again, I think that's whyit's got room for growth in that
space, within like assetmanagement and like the smart

(56:38):
asset trailer space, I believe.
But again, you know there'ssome cool tech already out there
, but I think that there's evencooler tech being developed and
still coming, and that's a bigarea that, like I'm, I'm super
excited for.

Yeah, and let's stay on the topic here of kind
of the drop and hook model.
Yeah, and let's stay on thetopic here of kind of the drop
and hook model, the hub andspoke model and being a carrier
that has a four and a half toone ratio of trailers to
tractors, so you're not thesmallest piece of the market.
You probably.
Your type of businessrepresents a very large percent
of the actual capacity, but interms of the number of companies

(57:20):
, it's a smaller percent of themarket.
But you know again, itrepresents a large part of the
capacity.
But in terms of the number ofcompanies, it's a smaller
percent of the market, but youknow, again, it represents a
large part of the capacity.
So I'm just curious, let's justgive the audience a little bit
of an understanding of what it'slike selling for a company like
yours.
You know a lot of my, a lot ofmy audience is freight brokers
or a lot of the guests have beenfreight brokers where you know

(57:41):
we've got to email someone 10times before they're likely to
potentially even respond oncebecause of how competitive and
undifferentiated brokerage canbe.
What is the sales process likefor you when you're reaching out
on behalf of Stevens TruckingLike, walk me through, do you
run into a lot of issues whereyou're just ignored off the jump
.
Or do you put 400 trucks in bigbold letters, like I have 400

(58:07):
trucks, talk to me, talk methrough that process a little
bit.

I've seen it all, Andrew.
Honestly, like there's beentimes that I've been fully
onboarded as a carrier andawarded freight and then all of
a sudden they're like, oh, thatwas an error.
And you don't hear from themfor five years, right, Like,
genuinely, there's been someweird, weird stuff.
Like you know, no emailresponse hey, that's fine.

(58:33):
No LinkedIn response, hey,whatever.
But to like, hey, we got acontract, we awarded you freight
, here you go, and then we'relike, hey, where's the tenders?
They're like, oh, that was,that was on accident.
And then you're going on likefour years of no follow-up.
Like that's kind of different,right, that's, it's not
everybody's normal Monday.
Um, so we, I would say we'veseen it all.

(58:54):
But I will say, like we have anawesome sales team.
But you know, I'll never forgetI was like a month into the job
and we were doing some work fora big automotive company and we
go up to Detroit right, If thatcan give you a little bit of a
hint as to, maybe, who and therewas a huge Al Schneider quote

(59:21):
on the wall with a picture ofhim and it said all we have to
sell is service itself.
I was like God, that sounds likemy dad.
And I was like I think fromthat moment on I was like, yeah,
I'm a sales guy, but I tellpeople I'm the lousiest sales
guy you could ever meet.
I hardly ever have my businesscards.
I'm kind of a a klutz when itcomes to like I'm always moving

(59:43):
forward.
So sometimes I forget my stuff,you know.
But like I pride myself onoperations because, again, like
like Al Schneider said, all wehave to sell is service itself.
So if you can get the assets inthe right place and not try to
do too much as an asset provider, I feel like that's like that's
one of the best credos youcould ever live by in this space

(01:00:05):
is just do people a good job,right, and again they're gonna
smell BS really quick If you'resaying, hey, I've got these drop
trailers and I can go toCalifornia or I can go to
Washington right Out of Dallas,Texas or Oklahoma.

(01:00:25):
And then they're like so who doyou use for your Oregon permits
?
And you're sitting there like,uh, because it's the first time
you've ever done it, Likethey're going to smell you out
real quick.
That like you don't know whatyou're talking about as a sales
guy, right, and so I don't know.
I think me and you are prettysimilar.
I'm pretty stubborn, I don'tlike being wrong.

(01:00:46):
I I do try to wash, watch my mytongue, but like I don't like
being wrong.
So like I don't, I don't wantto go sell someone something
that we can't do right.
And that, to me, is why I thinkwe've been like successful, as
our sales guys have the samementality.
You know, we don't, we don't dothe commission structure right

(01:01:09):
on the asset side because, likeI don't want them just going
after top line revenue.
That's not, it's notserviceable.
Like there's no way you couldbe.
Like you know what we're doing,X amount of millions of dollars
, let's double it in a year.
Like there's no way you couldbe.
Like you know what we're doing,X amount of millions of dollars
, let's double it in a year.
Like you can more so on thebrokerage, because you can scale

(01:01:30):
with that technology and if youhave those internal processes,
whether it's agent model,whether it's fully automated
technology, whatever, like youcan scale way quicker with less
capital.
You know capital expenditures.
But man on the asset side, Ialways say the Cardinal sin is
giving back a load.
So like if, if you can'tservice it, don't, don't quote

(01:01:53):
it, Don't try to touch it, Don'ttry to do too much.
Um, and that's how we presentit.
Yeah, that's how we presentourselves as a company.
When we're doing our salespitch, it's like, hey, we're
just here to look at anyopportunity that you have.
It's very like hands off, nottrying to be pushy.
Like our followup cycle itmight be every three to six

(01:02:15):
months.
We are not like, hey, we'regonna hammer these people weekly
, weekly, weekly with salescalls because, again to your
point, you identified it verywell Like it's actually a
smaller amount.
It's a big part of the market,but the amount of shippers that
you're going after is like apretty small number.
And so, like we already knowwho our target audience is when

(01:02:36):
we're selling.
There's no reason to try tohard sell those people that have
been in that seat for 10 or 15years and piss them off, Cause
they're like this guy won'tleave me alone.
It's like if they need us,we're gonna catch them at the
right part of the cycle when wecan service it.
Whether capacity's loose orcapacity's tight, we'll get our

(01:02:57):
opportunity.
We'll prioritize that customer.
We'll show them that we weren'tjust blowing smoke on our email
and that we're gonna actuallycome through for them when they
need us right and and our email,and that we're going to
actually come through for themwhen they need us Right, and
that's that's our whole salesapproach.
It doesn't mean I haven't gottenghosted a thousand times Right,
and every once in a while I'llget my feelers hurt.
Don't tell anybody else that,other than everybody that's
going to watch this.

(01:03:17):
But you know, every once in awhile the old ego takes a jab,
right?
You're like, oh man, I washoping to come in and close that
deal for one of our sales repor our director of sales, and
then you also get those samecrickets.
You're like man Dang, or youmake it worse, yeah, or you're
thinking in your head they mustbe on like a two month vacation.

(01:03:39):
Surely they would not respondRight, yeah, no never to?

Andrew Silver (01:03:46):
Yeah, no, never to me, never.
It's funny your comments about Ilove, I mean, I don't even need
to say it.
Service was a focal point forhow I thought about the brand we
built at Molo, and I talkedabout it a lot probably
annoyingly so to some people,but I always felt like my job

(01:04:08):
going into a potential meetingwith a customer was quite simply
to understand what their needswere and then digest it and
decide then and there if I couldmake a promise to live up to
the needs, and if so, I wasgung-ho and all in, and then it
was my job to relay back to ourteam what exactly I had

(01:04:29):
committed to, to make sure thatwe lived up to those commitments
.
It was a rather simple approach, but one that I think it can
work well if you try to bedisciplined about it.
I was someone who pushed theboundary on discipline because
it was like I always believedour team could do more than we
could.
So whether that was taking 200loads on a Saturday for one

(01:04:51):
company because they had somewarehouse fire or whatever, I
was always like well, I think wecould probably figure it out,
yeah we can do this.
Yeah, and put it on the team tofigure it out.
No, I love that it is.

Cole Stevens (01:05:04):
It's a simple one but it it's tried and true man
it's like.
But I think that's where, like,you don't give yourself enough
credit that you're, you're theoperator.
You really have to be in thebusiness, not just operating the
business, but you have tounderstand how it operates and
how your customer operates, notjust a sales guy that doesn't
understand it, because that'sthe only way you're going to

(01:05:26):
understand your capabilities andhow you can make that promise,
right.
And so I don't know some ofthese huge companies.
You're like man, I neverunderstood until I got into
business that there was like adifference between sales and
customer service.
Like sales being I'm just asales dude, I get paid
commissions to bring anything inand then I passed the torch to
the internal.
You know, customer service orcustomer success, whatever you

(01:05:48):
want to call it, and I'm likethat's crazy to me.
I'm like I want to keep thatstuff that I worked hard for
Cause.
Again, I made those promises tosomeone that, like, I genuinely
care about.
And you know, again, my fathertaught us a man of your word,
right?
So, like, follow through withit.
And that doesn't stop after 30days.
It doesn't even stop after 30years.
He's still doing it after 45,right?

Yep, I think you know.
I've seen this in now.
I've seen it in a big companywhere, like I could tell you the
the I bet there's a a a directcorrelation between the level of
success a salesperson has andhow close they are, like, how

(01:06:34):
closely they understand theactual operation of said
business they've won.
And I've seen it where, likethe bigger the companies are,
they have these outside salesreps who are selling six
different modes and sixdifferent things and they go to
sell brokerage and it's likethis person has never brokered a
load in their life.
But because they think they cansell, they think they can go

(01:06:57):
sell brokerage and when they getin front of the customer and
they make commitments, they haveno freaking idea what they're
committing to and by the timethe loads are being operated
it's nowhere near to thecustomer's expectation because
they weren't even the sales rep,wasn't even capable of
articulating to the operationspeople what they'd even

(01:07:17):
committed to.
It just is, and you see thistime and time again with these
larger companies that havemultiple modes and these outside
sales reps where they just haveno clue what commitments
they're making.
Which brings me to a thought Ihad around your business.
It's got to be reallychallenging to make sure you're

(01:07:38):
making sound commitments, andthe reason for that is shippers
in general, and even the oneswho are great at this, have a
hard time knowing exactly whattheir business is going to look
like in three months, in sixmonths, in 12 months, as they
make these annual commitmentsand so their volumes, you know

(01:07:59):
they when it gets to.
I've only done a little bit ofdrop and hook business and it's
so hard because they're likeit's going to be three loads a
day and you need to thereforehave seven trailers on site for
us at the origin and you knowwhatever, all of a sudden you
take the business and there'slike three extra nuances about

(01:08:20):
that lane you weren't aware ofbecause the facility needs xyz.
The volume is three loads a dayon average, which is 15 a week,
but it really is.
On monday there's two loads.
On tuesday there's no loads.
On wednesday there's five loads.
On thursday there's zero and onfriday there's uh, eight, I
think eight or something I don'tknow what the math came out to

(01:08:41):
there.
Yeah, um.
So how challenging is it?
How often is it that theinformation you're getting from
the shippers isn't reallyaccurate, and what do you do
about that?
Because I feel like it's suchan investment for you to go and
get seven trailers dropped offat the Hobby Lobby and I'm not
just throughout Hobby Lobby, butany retailer or any facility

(01:09:02):
and then, once you're actuallyin it trying to move the freight
, you realize like there arefour things that we didn't agree
to.
The way they are.
That kind of impacts my price.
How do you navigate those?
How often do those situationsoccur and how do you navigate
them?

They happen, right , especially with a new customer
.
You know, I think everyonealways thinks, hey, the grass is
always greener on the otherside, right, if you're going
through like a tough time, orlike the past couple of years
have been tough on pricingwithin the market, and you just
think, oh, there's a bunch ofunicorns on the other side of
that fence, right, everyone hasdifferences.
And that's where I think youhave to like identify what

(01:09:37):
you're good at, like, genuinelyyou know you.
You have to identify exactlywhat your strong points are so
that you realize whether youalign with someone or not, what
your strong points are, so thatyou realize whether you align
with someone or not, um, andthen be able to actually execute
If you have those those same.
You know shared pain pointsthat you're trying to solve,

(01:09:57):
right, like, hey, uh, we'venever done drop and hook
operations.
We're opening up a distributioncenter down the road from you,
right, and I'm like, hey, that'swhat we do.
You know we do yard hustling,yard management and drop and
hook trailers.
Right, like, we're your guyshere.
That's where I think it goeswell.
But then again, when you're like, hey, all we do is, you know,

(01:10:18):
spot transactional, live load,live unload.
Like if I go take that work, Ican price it right, my driver's
going to be really mad andprobably quit and my driver
turnover and retention is goingto be terrible because I'm going
to taking work that they're notused to right, like internally.
And so sometimes you have toput up with a little bit of

(01:10:42):
nuance, right.
But if you're really lookingfor right off the bat it's kind
of like the technology andimplementing it.
If you're kind of like primingyourself to be like no, that
customer looks really good but Iknow their freight's like not,
we haven't seen success in thatspace, it's probably for a
really good reason.
That you haven't found successin that space yet is because,
like, maybe you're not ready togo there right, or maybe their

(01:11:07):
business model doesn't quite fityour business model, and that's
perfectly okay and acceptable.
You know there are definitelysome some one-offs that happen
that you're just like man, Iwish I would have known that.
And and that's where,internally, I'll come back and
evaluate hey, was that our fault?
Or like, was that somethingthat the customer was

(01:11:28):
intentionally withholding someinformation?
Because that drives yourdecision right, that who's
paying the freight?
Right, there's so manysubjective moving parts and also
, does that business tie to oneof, like, our top 10 customers,
right?
Like you might put up with alittle bit more if someone
withheld some information abouthow freight moves.

(01:11:48):
If it's also tied to somethingelse within your business, it's
incredibly important, right, andit's a super small space.
So I think, no matter what, youjust have to come with the
servant's heart all the timethat, like, you're going to
figure it out, you're going tofigure it out for people, right?
Cause that's probably wherethey're looking for a new
service provider is becausesomeone before you didn't figure

(01:12:10):
it out and you're you're thereto help solve problems.

Couldn't couldn't say it any better than that.
Speaking of solving problems,my understanding is the most
challenging part of a truckcompany is managing the drivers,
and driver turnover, on average, I believe, is around 100 at
most companies like that's anastronomical number.

(01:12:37):
Relative to someone like youknow brokerage industry, where
you know you could be a tenth ofthat or a fifth of that, how do
do you?
There's a couple of thoughtsLike what is the most
challenging aspect of managingdrivers and managing driver
turnover?

I think it's constant sales, right.
Those fleet managers have to beable to again sell a load very
similar to how, like, a brokerdoes.
But I think one of the hardestpain points to solve for is,
like the dynamic nature of whatcustomer demands are and how
they're different with likelength of haul and how you pay

(01:13:18):
for those and keep it simpleenough that a driver understands
exactly what they're going tobe taking home, but that you
also don't short them becauseyou're so cookie cutter.
That's like I don't know.
That's a problem that dad and Ihave always like really tried
to like focus on and wrap ourhead around, because, again, you
don't want to have 20 differentpay scales for different things

(01:13:39):
, maybe because this, you know,this customer is way harder.
They do day zero, overnightdeliveries.
This customer over here, everyload is always going to be three
, four stops, multi-stop, right,and this one over here is
dropping hooks, so you keeprunning, so that's probably
going to be, you know, by themile, right.
How do you solve for thatwithin a very vast, dynamic

(01:14:02):
network?
But also keep it as simple aspossible without confusing the
driver, because that's what,that's what they care about,
like.
I want to make sure thatwhatever I'm putting in, that
I'm getting out with the dollarsthat I take home to my family,
right?
That's, that's how a driver,you know, really, really wants
to be able to peel that, peelthat out, and that is it's a

(01:14:23):
challenge.
It's a challenge all the timebecause, like our existing
customers, needs can change.
Or you could land some, somenew business that you're like
man normally you know, over 500miles, it's this.
But we got to be a little moresubjective because that we're
going to be doing 25 loads aweek at 499 miles.
And so it's like there's littletiny one number, penny per mile

(01:14:45):
.
You know what I mean, and soit's like there's little tiny
one number, penny per mile.
You know what I mean, thingsthat happen all the time within
the business that you try not tocreate confusion.
You know what I mean, but youalso want to be fair, cause I'm
like I got to pay somebody on ashort length of haul the same
rate per mile.
I need to pay them more becauseas a percentage of that load,
there's going to be more dwelltime at the shipper and the

(01:15:07):
receiver as a percentage of thewhole compared to an over the
road run.
That's 2000 miles.
Like if you were comparing liveload, live unload from, say,
oklahoma city to Dallas versuslive load, live unload from
Oklahoma city to SeattleWashington, right as a
percentage more than likely alittle, depending on the shipper

(01:15:29):
and receiver the dwell time onthe front and the back end and
detention is going to be more asa percentage of the load.
So that's not fair to thedriver if they're not getting
compensated for that.
They're still there, they'restill awake, they're still
loading the freight, they'restill unloading the freight,
right, they're doing what ourcore business model is, and so

(01:15:51):
you got to be able to, you gotto be able to be dynamic with
that If you want to service someof the same customers.
But but some people maybe it'slike, hey, we don't haul
anything other than loadsbetween 500 miles to a thousand.
You know what I mean and that'sgreat, but that's something
that we've had to solve, forthat it is.
It's a challenge, you know.
It's a challenge on how to wrapyour head around.
How do you get that informationto the driver so that they can,
so that they can see it butalso still be willing to serve

(01:16:14):
our, our customers If it'ssomething that's out of the norm
, right.

Yeah, and you know that you just log jogged my
memory on.
Like another challenge thattechnology can provide is like
the inability to navigatemultiple pay systems or pay
structures.
Because I remember when Istarted at Mastery and they were
talking about how you know, oneof the customers had like 47
different pay structures and Iwas like what?

(01:16:42):
And they explained exactly whatyou just explained like we had
to build a system in a way thatit could accommodate as many pay
structures as possible bycreating driver profiles that
you could just plug it in,versus some other older systems
where it's like you got to makeit square, fit in a round hole
or whatever.

(01:17:06):
Technology can't accommodatethose needs of your system.
Now, all of a sudden, you'remaking a decision that's not in
the best interest of your people, just so you could support your
technology where that shouldnever be the case, versus,
especially in a role likemanaging drivers where the
turnover is so high.
So you've already got the cardskind of stacked against you in
terms of your ability to retainthem.
If technology or other issuescreate more kind of restraints

(01:17:28):
or restrictions, that just makesyour job even harder.
Yep.

It's a challenge, but also the return on
investment can be tenfold right.
Like if you can optimize thatnetwork of different things
together and get your drivers tosee that what they're truly
taking home is so much betterthan you know.
Just just maybe the same oldover the road trucking from a to
B to C to D, right, and thefact that, like hey, we're

(01:17:55):
taking short hop from here tohere and you're getting paid a
premium to do it, and then thenext, you know leg is is
dropping hook and maybe it's a700 mile haul, but then we're
backing that up with a 2000 milehaul, like here's what your
week is going to be, and it'snot just at that minimum over
the road, you know rate per mile.
Like you're going to bebringing home the bacon.
Like if you can get that acrossin an intricate manner and tie

(01:18:18):
together a really tight network,that's where you can be, you
know, incredibly profitable, butalso, you know, incredibly
diversified too, with adifferent customer base all
within the same space.

Yep and and like we've talked a lot about the the
value of service in a businesslike yours and how important it
is to be executing at thehighest level, how do you
instill that mindset into thedrivers?
Like the driver doesn'tnecessarily.
Let you instill that mindsetinto the drivers A driver
doesn't necessarily.
I don't mean to shortchangewhat they know about the

(01:18:51):
industry, but they're probablynot super well read and
understood about how competitiveit is out there and the fact
that if you don't service thisload there's not another load
tomorrow.
So I'm just curious how haveyou and your father and the rest
of the fam and the team kind ofdrilled home or gotten the

(01:19:13):
buy-in from drivers to executeand service the freight at the
highest level?

I think one of the coolest things that people
don't know unless they comethrough here is the fact that my
father talks to every singleorientation class.
So he personally talks to, goesthrough, oh yeah, like he
spends probably a minimum of anhour, you know, every week
carving out, making sure thathe's got notes of exactly what's

(01:19:38):
going on.
And so, like, the firstimpression of the business
legitimately comes from theowner and CEO of the company and
you know, who knows, maybeafter six months they've lost a
little bit of touch with, like,where things are.
But we also do monthly safetymeetings and updates, right,
that are required to be watchedby our driver force.

(01:19:59):
And so, when you talk aboutthose cadences of getting them
the information, yeah, we're notperfect but like we do try to
do internal education andtraining so that there is a
level of understanding and thatyou know we don't, we don't
sound like we don't know whatwe're talking about and trying
to do and accomplish.
You know, again, when our ourfather's been at this for 45

(01:20:20):
years and he's he's very he'sincredible at what he does Right
and he's very he's incredibleat what he does right.
And so we do weekly things withthe orientation, we do the
monthly safety meetings that arevideoed, that get broadcast to
the entire suite, that a lot ofthe time we do market updates,
but then those safety meetingsand we also have anonymous

(01:20:42):
feedback loop too, so that ifwe're doing something wrong, we
do utilize a platform like thatUm, which I think is incredible,
because they know that it onlygets directly to the family with
what is said.
It's not going to a fleetmanager, it's not going to a
fleet manager supervisor, it'snot going to a director, it's
legitimately going to theStevens family.
And every single week we re, weread every single anonymous

(01:21:05):
feedback loop and we take thatstuff seriously.
Sometimes there's justcomplaints, right, some people
need to vent with the driverforce, you know, sometimes they
just need to pass thingsupstream and feel heard.
But there's a lot of times thatthere's legitimate complaints
hey, did you know that this wasgoing on at the drop yard in
such and such state?
And you're like I had no idea.

(01:21:26):
Let's try to get to the bottomof that so that we can solve
that problem, right, versus 10drivers quitting over it.
And so, like, when you reallylike, try to put that ear to the
ground, but then also like givethem the information that they
need.
You know.
Hopefully that helps with someof the retention pieces to where

(01:21:47):
there's more understanding andpatience versus just thinking
that that the home office istrying to do them wrong.
Right, that's the ultimate islike making sure that they
understand like we are generallydoing the best that we can to
try to take care of you each andevery day.
Because, like we would notpeople say it but I don't know
if they really believe it whenthey say it.

(01:22:08):
We do.
If they don't make money, wedon't make money.
Right, that's something dadjust beats into all of our
people's heads drivers, adminteam alike.
Because in a business where youget paid weekly to the labor
force, how can you make money ifyou're not getting paid for 30,
45, 60, 90 days?

(01:22:30):
Right, if they're not makingmoney upfront, there is no way,
with that cost of capital thatwe as a corporation can carry
that.
So, like I've always felt it'svery genuine, because he's like
if you're not bringing it homeand we're not doing a good
enough job of running you, ofeducating you of how this works,
keeping our network flowing,then like there's no chance for

(01:22:52):
us on the back end to make money, none whatsoever, you know, but
he does.
I mean, again, he does anawesome job of, like I said,
talking to these, these driversevery single week and he is the
first impression of the company,which I think is so cool I'll
never forget.
Cool story.
Um, I've been about two yearsago we just moved out here to

(01:23:13):
our new corporate office and youknow, right there, kind of
middle COVID and my dad usuallywalks around in a jean shorts I
love it and like a, like a windbreaker Right, and he's always
got, like his, his earpiece inand a and a ball cap on and he
might be wearing, like you know,like the uh, almost like olakai

(01:23:35):
slippers or some crocs orsomething.
Just, you know, he's justscooting around the office and
I'm walking in from a differentmeeting from the other side of
the campus and I kind of crossedpaths with him in the lobby and
there's a truck driver that youknow was was just coming in for
orientation and hadn't gottento hear from from dad yet and he

(01:23:59):
starts shaking his hand.
He's like, hey, he's like howlong you been here?
And dad's like, ah, quite awhile.
He's like, do you drive here?
And dad's like, ah, quite awhile he's like do you drive
here?
And dad was like yeah, sorta.
And so you know, never, neversaid hey, I'm Kenny the owner,
you know what I mean.
Just like, walking around hisjean shorts and his windbreaker,
just the most like low key,chill guy that you could meet,

(01:24:24):
and just he's got a servant'sheart.
Like you wouldn't know that hewas the owner unless you saw him
giving a spiel in the safetytalk or in the orientation class
and so like when you get taughtto carry yourself that way,
like you don't ever like thinkof yourself as someone.
So like you're constantlytrying to serve other people and

(01:24:48):
that's the business that we'rein.
We do.
We don't make products, even ifa product does service a
customer.
We're strictly in the serviceindustry.
And if you don't have aservant's heart to serve people
like that and you start thinkingthat you're something, you'll
probably get knocked down a pegor two.
And so just coming every daylike being like hey, I want to

(01:25:09):
be more like Kenny.
Right, I want to.
I want to be that dude drivinga truck 45 years from now and
still out talking to my peopleand educating them as best as I
can because of the experiencehe's gained Cause again.
Just like your dad man, like hecould.
He could head to the house allday long, but he doesn't,
because he loves it and he caresabout his people, you know.

(01:25:30):
So it's cool to watch, it'scool to be a part of.

So I had a lot to add to that.
I was going to agree and sharesome of my own perspective on
culture building, but I don'twant to.
I just that was beautifullysaid and I really it resonates.
I agree with it.
Your dad's gotta be, you know,he's probably probably not a big
podcast guy, but you should askhim to listen to this, cause I
think he'll be immensely proudof kind of the way you carry

(01:25:57):
yourself, the way this, thisstuff kind of seeps out of you.
It's not like you're putting ona show.
Um, I think you did a reallygood job of articulating who the
Stevens trucking team is versuskind of you know the show of
like, we do this, we do this.
Yeah, I just want to thank you.

Thanks for having me on the show and I appreciate
you for having me.
Genuinely Great I was.
I was pumped whenever I waswatching that episode and then
saw your your comment aboutmaybe we can have Cole on, I was
like heck, yeah, Like I lovegetting to getting to talk it up
with Andrew.
Yeah, man, it's been great.

So when it's not negative we need to go.

We need to go for around a golf at some point when
it's not minus degrees outside.

Yeah, we're going to need a little bit more than
not minus degrees outside.
Yeah, we're gonna need a littlebit more than not minus.
We're gonna need at least, likeI like, a 60 and up golfer 60
degrees and up, and I keep myscores well above that.

But uh, you should bring the podcast equipment to
the golf course.

That would be pretty epic, I feel yeah, I'm
sure the audience would love towatch you and I hit the ball 200
times between us with a coupleof yells and screams and shit.

It'd be good entertainment?
I don't think so.
Everybody in the freightindustry would relate.
They'd be like those are myguys, those are my guys, right
there.

Maybe a little bit.
All right, everyone.
Well, it's been great Cole.
Uh, we'll see y'all next week.
You.

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Ep. #52: Cole Stevens, CSO of Stevens Trucking Co.

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