August 23, 2024 • 60 mins
NARIKA is a local organization that is helping survivors of domestic violence.
HELPLINE: 1 800 215 7308
...and while they will help ANYONE in need of their services, they tell us 75% of their clients are from the South Asian community.
They want their community to start talking about domestic violence. They want everyone to understand what domestic violence is (it is not just physical).
They want to encourage survivors to seek help. They want people to understand: It is not your fault, you did not fail.
If you need help, call the helpline: 1 800 215 7308
If you would like to help with donations or volunteering, click here.
And if you want to help in a big way... On Sunday, September 8th 2024. NARIKA will hold their 32nd Annual Gala Tarang - An Evening of Light & Hope at Wente Vineyards in Livermore CA. Guest of Honor this year is artist and social activist Shabana Azmi.
If you would like to contact The Fremont Podcast, please text us here.
Petrocelli Homes has been a key sponsor of The Fremont Podcast from the beginning. If you are looking for a realtor, get in touch with Petrocelli Homes on Niles Blvd in Fremont.
Ohlone College Flea Market happens every second Saturday at the lower parking lot at Ohlone College. You can find out more information about them not their webpage or on their Instagram.
Minutemen Press in Fremont is your community city go to for all your community print and design needs. What ever you want to print or customize, Minutemen Press is here for you. You can find them at 44141 Fremont Blvd, Fremont, CA 94538.
This is a Muggins Media Podcast.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:18):
a small courtyard right off theside of the Mission San Jose.
It's very close to theintersection between Mission
Boulevard and WashingtonBoulevard.
It's peaceful and relativelyquiet.
It has benches and a concreteplatform with trees and flowers
and trash cans that you can use.
(00:39):
This is a story about peoplefinding a use for little places.
If you give them those littleplaces.
This is a courtyard that'sbasically public and so, yeah,
anyone could come in and sitdown and do whatever they want.
But the reason I'm bothering tomention it is because people
(01:04):
have found a use for this littlespace.
It's developed organically.
There's a group of people whocome here regularly to exercise,
or, at a minimum, they make ita stop on their run to stretch.
I've seen people who regularlymake this place a dinner spot, a
picnic place for themselves.
I saw one person make this intoan office spot, a picnic place
(01:25):
for themselves.
I saw one person make this intoan office space, at least
temporarily.
There are power plugs here.
I don't know if they work, butit's a lovely place to get some
work done.
I guess if I have a point, it'sthat if you provide space to
people, they will find a use forit, and if you don't, then they
(01:46):
probably won't think of it, sowe should.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
You are listening to episode 123 of the Fremont
Podcast, dedicated to tellingthe stories of the past and
present of the people and placesof the city of Fremont.
One conversation at a time.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
There was no reporting domestic violence and
there were no words calling thisdomestic violence.
There were no terms.
Even now I don't think in locallanguages there are terms to
say this is domestic violence.
I, at least in my language.
I don't know Wow.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Now here's your host, Ricky B.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Somebody could be listening to this podcast, or it
could be, you know, um hearinga presentation that you guys
give about what you offer andthey might think, well, that's
not me, that's not my situation,and there's kind of like the
reservation to even reach outfor help, because whether it's
(02:54):
just feeling you know the personis feeling responsible for the
problems that they're goingthrough, or whether it's just
the guilt of being a part ofsomething that would bring shame
on your family or on yourcommunity or whatever, or it's
just that I need to be strongerand be able to deal with my own
(03:14):
problems, because there's adifficulty in defining what
domestic abuse is.
In defining what domestic abuseis, it might be that people
just would pass up on this andjust go on.
So how would you definedomestic abuse?
(03:36):
If you're trying to helpsomebody understand whether
their situation they're in issomething that they need to
think differently about, howwould you define it for them?
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Okay.
So my first point would be thatphysical abuse is not the only
form of domestic abuse.
Most survivors go throughemotional abuse, which is as bad
or worse than physical abuse,bad or worse than physical abuse
.
So what is emotional abuse?
Emotional abuse, like Jasyamentioned, involves a lot of the
(04:09):
gaslighting, right?
Some gaslighting is very subtle, like the community saying, oh,
you're saying he's abusive toyou, but there's no need for him
to abuse he had.
He's well educated, he has agood, high paying job, so, and
(04:30):
then that thought process in theclients mind okay, am I
overthinking this?
Yeah, he is educated, he isproviding.
You know, my kids are going togood schools, whatever, so they
gaslight.
That's subtle forms ofgaslighting, right?
That is emotional abuse.
Do you have access to moneywhere you don't have to beg that
(04:53):
person for you?
I'm not talking about expensivestuff, I'm talking about basic
needs, like your basic needs,what you need, like getting
going for a doctor checkup,going for to the dentist,
getting your basic needs likesanitary napkins.
Are you begging this person ordo you have access to that, you
(05:15):
know?
And verbal abuse, you know.
And, uh, many clients tell usoh, oh, you know he probably had
a bad day, he's a nice person,but, you know, once in a while
this happens.
He shouts at me or screams atme.
But our thing is is this acycle?
(05:36):
Okay, if it happened once in awhile, he apologized and
corrected that behavior, thenit's not domestic violence.
But if this is happening, itmay happen once in three months,
but the rest of the two monthsand 29 days are you walking on
eggshells because you'rethinking this explosion needs to
(05:58):
, is going to come and you arealtering your life based to
prevent.
That right.
That is.
Control, that's right, that iscontrol.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
So yeah, so um yeah, the control, I think, element is
what I'm hearing, especially inum somebody trying to do
whatever they can to make surethey have what they need, or or
trying to, like you said, walkon eggshells or whatever, just
not having the freedom to beable to live a normal life,
(06:29):
having to orient your lifearound somebody else's responses
or their control over you.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
And it can be.
Most of it is a lot of coercionright, and sometimes the
coercion is verypassive-aggressive.
It's like the abuser may nottalk to the person, so you feel
coerced.
Okay, maybe I did somethingwrong, let me not do that again.
So you're constantly trying toalter your life to fit the mood
(07:01):
swings of this other person, sothat that person is not causing
an explosion at home.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Jossie, do you have any?
Addition to that definition, tothat idea, yeah.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
Domestic violence is rooted in having power and
control over somebody, and so Ithink where, if there is not
clear-cut abuse, where it mightbe like physical abuse sometimes
people can struggle withidentifying, like, am I in an
abusive situation?
Because, like Breba was saying,domestic violence involves a
(07:42):
pattern of behavior.
It doesn't just happen one time, and I think that's because
it's a pattern.
Someone has to experiencethings repeatedly to even be
able to, sort of like, identifyit right.
That's right.
(08:02):
And so I think that, think thatthat's an unfortunate aspect,
right to where you're having toidentify this pattern, and so I
think some key things that youknow.
Someone maybe can askthemselves is you know, am, am I
able to communicate my needsand are are my needs being heard
(08:24):
?
Um, or does it like?
Or does it like always, alwaysbecome a fight?
You know it?
Does it become like oh, I'm,I'm asking for too much, my
needs are too?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
much Am.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
I being too dramatic.
Um, you know, are like are my,are my boundaries being crossed?
Um, and I would say, would saylike an important thing is to be
able to have agency in yourrelationship.
Um, because the thing is, um,uh, there's a lot of information
that you know folks can likegoogle online to to understand
(08:59):
what different forms of abusecan look like.
Um, um, so, because, becausedomestic violence is, it's, it's
unfortunately not a cookiecutter, right, but the thing is,
am I, am I able to have agency,communicate my needs and
communicate them in a safemanner?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
because usually the answer is no to all of those in
a domestic violence situationUsually the answer is no to all
of those in a domestic violencesituation.
Speaker 5 (09:25):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Well, it's good to have you guys here today.
You both are, so you work forNarika, right, and Narika is an
organization.
Is it a nonprofit?
Yes, okay, but you guys are notvolunteers though.
You guys are employed there oryou are volunteers.
Speaker 5 (09:42):
No we are staff volunteers.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Okay, very good.
So, prabha, what is Narika Like?
What tell me?
Tell me a little bit about whatit is as an organization, what
they do and and how long they'vebeen around.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
So Narika has been around since 1992, which is
almost 32 years.
So we are a non-profit.
Two years so we are anon-profit.
We work with domestic violencesurvivors from the Bay Area, but
(10:15):
our focus is on the South Asianpopulation going through
domestic violence.
Speaker 5 (10:21):
We, our services extend start with our helpline,
where people call into ourhelpline 800-215-7308.
So our helpline number is800-215-7308.
And our helpline operates fromMonday through Friday, 8am to
8pm.
So if a survivor needs help oryou know, if you know somebody
(10:46):
that needs help and you want totalk to a domestic violence
advocate, you can reach out tospeak to someone.
And everything that's spokenabout on the helpline is
confidential.
That's great.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
And we do the needs assessment and we do whatever is
necessary they may some of themmay need to get out immediately
, so we have emergency safenights program where we can
bring them in or place them inother domestic violence shelters
.
We continue to do casemanagement, like giving them
(11:22):
legal consultation, help withpaperwork like restraining order
and divorce.
We help them, we connect themto therapists, culturally
responsive therapists who aretrauma-informed and that they've
worked with domestic violencesurvivors.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Okay, okay Is Narika?
Is it local or is it anorganization?
That's all over the place.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
So we are based in Alameda County in Fremont and we
serve anyone calling us, butour services can, like case
management, can only extend topeople living in California,
because legal support andeverything has to be local, okay
(12:07):
.
But we do get calls, even fromIndia.
Oh, wow, yes that's because wehave many clients who have been
abandoned.
It's called transnationalabandonment.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
Oh, my word.
Yeah, oh my word, Wow.
So how did you hear aboutNarika?
You said that you were.
It started in 1992.
What was your introduction tothis organization?
Speaker 3 (12:30):
So, like I said, I just I was introduced to one of
the co-founders about, I think,93.
And she was talking about butit was like grassroots, it's
still, we're still grassroots.
You know about how, you knowthis and, like I said, that was
my first introduction.
I didn't even know thatorganizations existed to help
(12:53):
something like this at cost likethis.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
Wow.
So it was kind of a shock toyou that this kind of
organization Shock and a verypleasant surprise.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Okay, why is?
Speaker 4 (13:05):
it so surprising?
What is it about what youexperienced in your introduction
to that?
Why is that such a surprise toyou?
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Yeah, so back home, domestic violence is not
something you talk about.
This is something a familydeals with it.
There were no laws at that timeto support domestic violence
Nobody.
There was no reporting domesticviolence and there were no
(13:34):
words calling this domesticviolence.
There were no terms.
Even now, I don't think inlocal languages there are terms
to say this is domestic violence.
I, at least in my language.
I don't know what exists, sothis is domestic violence.
I, at least in my language.
I don't know what exists.
So this is a family issue.
It's husband and wife don't getalong.
That's what they call it.
They don't say that she's goingbecause it's up to a woman.
(13:58):
It's a patriarchal society,like what Jasia said.
It's up to the woman to makethe marriage work.
Wow.
If she says I am not able toput up with it, I'm leaving,
then it's her fault, it's not.
He has to correct himself.
Or you know, this is destroyingthe children and the wife.
(14:18):
None of those.
That topic doesn't come up atall.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
Wow, yeah, that's amazing.
We're going to talk more aboutthat in a minute, but I want to
hear from Jasia.
Jasia, tell me a little bitabout how you got introduced to
Nareka and maybe a little bit ofyour story about you know your
life brought you to where youare here.
Speaker 5 (14:40):
Yeah.
So I got involved in thedomestic violence prevention
movement as a volunteer incollege.
I was always drawn to socialissues, partly because I think
my experiences as a young person, also growing up in an
(15:00):
immigrant household, kind ofopened my eyes to social issues,
and so I was involved inworking with the homeless
community and that eventuallyled me to getting involved with
a local domestic violenceorganization.
And so after college I ended upcoming to the Fremont area and
(15:29):
got employed with one of thedomestic violence agencies here,
like Naraka, partly because, asPrabha said, you know, domestic
violence is kind of an issuethat is not talked about in our
(15:50):
community.
It's sort of like it's a familyissue that is addressed behind
like closed doors.
And, however, we know that thereality is that domestic
violence has many, many societalimpacts.
So I kind of saw a lot ofdomestic violence growing up
(16:11):
around me and I can only imaginewhat an immigrant survivor is
going through.
Survivor is going throughtrying to.
(16:31):
You know, come to this country,you know learn about a new
place and you know navigate,getting out of, getting staying
safe in a relationship.
So some of those experiencesand understandings brought me to
Naka and I'm very happy andfortunate that my background can
contribute to helping folks inneed.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
Yeah, that's amazing, I'm interested.
So, prabha, you moved to the USin 1992, is that?
Speaker 2 (17:01):
correct, that's right , and you lived in India before
that.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Okay, and then you are, your parents are immigrants
.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
But you were born here in the US in 1992, is that
correct?
And you lived in India beforethat?
Yes, and then you are.
Speaker 5 (17:09):
Your parents are immigrants but you were born
here in the US, is that right?
Yes, so my parents came to theUS in the 90s and I was born
shortly after they came to thiscountry.
So you know, I was sort of asthey were learning this country.
You know, I was also growing uphere.
You were learning it as well.
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
I just find it interesting, because I think it
is fascinating, that both of youwere surprised that something
like this existed.
You, prabha, had the experienceof growing up in India, where
the culture is just kind of likeyou know it's.
It's like the story of theolder fish asking the younger
fish hey, how's the water?
(17:49):
And they're like what's water?
You know, in in in that, in thatsense you're, you're like, you
know, this is the culture thatyou've always known.
It's, it was everything thatmade sense to you.
In one sense, you, jossia, hada mixed experience because in
the house, at home, you wouldhave, and probably within your
(18:12):
tightest community, you had,what existed from that South
Asian culture that your parentsgrew up in and that they were
from, but at the same time, youwere being exposed to a lot of
the American culture as well.
So, but it's interesting to methat both of you were surprised
because of what your experiencehad been within within that
(18:34):
culture.
Um, I, what would you say?
Uh is the.
I believe probably you weresaying that the term for
domestic violence does not evenexist.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Possibly, I don't know anymore.
Possibly they have because lawsIndia and Pakistan and other
places, laws have changed.
They have introduced laws tosupport survivors of domestic
violence, so I'm sure they haveto support survivors of domestic
violence, so I'm sure they have.
But when I was growing up,nobody used words to explain
(19:11):
what is going on.
These were not terms that youthere were no terms that you
used to say this person is goingthrough domestic violence right
.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
How many people work for Nareka?
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Right now 13.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
13?
Speaker 3 (19:23):
13.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
And you guys stay busy.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Oh 7, oh really wow so.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
So I think that surprises me, and maybe it's
because I have this, you know,vision of like a wonderful bay
area community, you know, andit's just like the fact that you
could have 13 people workingfor an organization like this
and you're staying busy all thetime with problems.
I don't want, obviously youcan't tell the stories of the
people, but, like, what are someof the things that have
(19:51):
surprised you the most as you'veworked for Nureka?
Speaker 3 (19:55):
For me it's still surprising, so let me give you
just a little numbers.
I know data is not, so till theend of from Jan 1st 2024 to
June 30th, we have served about520 clients and seven close to
75 percent of them are SouthAsians.
(20:15):
We don't, we provide ourservices to anyone who calls us.
We are not saying yes, notSouth Asian, or we serve.
So about 75 percent of them areSouth Asians.
And I also run a support groupand I was surprised even
yesterday, one of the survivorstelling me that I'm so glad I
(20:38):
came to know of Narika, whichwas just a few months ago.
Wow, so she's also lived inthis country a while.
Wow.
And she said if I had knownorganizations like this were
doing this kind of stuff, andeven sometimes clients.
All that they need isvalidation that what they're
going through is not right,nothing more than that.
(21:00):
Even to get that, they said, ifI had known, I think I would
have sought this help long timeago yeah, I think there's.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
There's got to be a multiple sides, multiple facets
to that, because there's one,you know, I didn't know that the
organization itself existed,but then, two, I didn't know
that it was okay to reach out,yeah, to the organization, like
I think you were even saying.
It's something that thehusbands and wives deal with.
(21:29):
They don't get along in theirhome, but it's not an abuse
issue, it's just a relationshipproblem.
What's been the biggest, what'sbeen the most surprising thing
for you, josiah?
Speaker 5 (21:46):
I think the most surprising thing has been seeing
how much resilience thesurvivors have even before
connecting with us, and howthey've managed to stay safe in
their relationship in the waysthat, um, they've needed to.
(22:08):
And there was a key thing thatyou said that, um that stood out
to me was that it it's okay toactually call us um.
One thing that we always have,uh are telling folks on our
helpline is that theseconversations are confidential,
um, and that's that's a reallyimportant thing to say on our
helpline is that theseconversations are confidential
and that's that's a reallyimportant thing to say on the
(22:28):
helpline, partly because,because the family unit is so
important in South Asian culture, someone even reaching out and
talking to a stranger aboutwhat's going on in their home is
is very taboo and it's not okay.
(22:49):
So so when some, when asurvivor is calling us, we are
actually thanking them andvalidating them for for calling
and seeking that support,because that's what we're here
for.
So I am struck by theirresilience and their courage to
say what I'm experiencing is notokay and I'm going to ask for
(23:14):
help.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Wow, can you tell me like I know that probably you
mentioned a number of servicesthat you offer.
You kind of listed off a fewthings very quickly um, what are
?
What are some of the like?
What's the main thing that youfind yourself dealing with?
Like, is there one main problemor maybe a couple different
(23:37):
things that you find yourselfdoing?
I'm sure there's the extremesas well, where somebody, I mean,
is in a horrible, you know,situation where it's just like
you know you've got to get,we've got to help immediately.
Hopefully that's not whatyou're always dealing with, but
what are some of the main issuesthat you're dealing with on a
(23:58):
regular basis?
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Okay, One of the main .
Like ours, we deal with mostlySouth Asian community, so
they're all immigrants.
So one of the main things wedeal is with their immigration
status.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
So in the Bay Area, as you know, silicon Valley has
a lot of tech workers and theyare all on this visa, h-1b visa.
So the spouse is dependent onthe abuser and they're on a visa
it's called H-4 visa.
So the person holding the H-1Bdoesn't have any obligation to
(24:39):
apply or renew the H-4 visa.
So what happens is they getmarried, they come on an H-4,
children born here are citizensUS citizens so if the mom
doesn't have a status, she hasto go back home Because she's
tied to her husband, who's aworker.
(25:00):
Yes, yes, there are immigrationsolutions available, but that is
only if you have filed a policereport or a restraining order.
And many of them choose not to.
They don't want law enforcementor the courts involved in their
(25:23):
life, so they would have nevermade a report.
So how do you apply for this Uvisa?
or anything, and so it becomes achallenge to deal with the
immigration status.
That is one thing.
The second thing is thefinancial dependency on the
abuser.
Many of them may not have whatis called an EAD, a work permit
(25:47):
to work in this country, andsome of them are not given an
EAD by the abuser, and many ofthem may not be qualified or
they may be language challenged.
They may not have enoughEnglish to get a job like even
in a retail store or somethinglike that.
So then, and even if they areearning, we have some very
(26:09):
high-earning survivors whosemoney goes into a joint account
and they don't have access totheir own.
They never see it.
Wow, they never see it.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
So that's the second biggest.
I would actually say finance isthe first and then immigration.
These are the main two biggestissues, other than dealing with
law enforcement and other thingsthat we see.
And then the third comes, whichis the key is child custody.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Okay, oh, wow, yeah, the key is child custody.
Okay.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Oh, wow, yeah, so we see.
And in the South Asiancommunity, one new thing that we
are seeing you know more andmore is the abuser calls the
cops on the survivor, oh my word.
So he may have tried.
He or she may have tried topush the survivor.
You know, may have tried tochoke her or attack her, and
(27:09):
sometimes the survivor putstheir hand to push them away and
there may be a nail mark, andthat's enough.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
And sometimes they have recordings of the survivor
saying things, but it is afterthey have been provoked into
saying something and that'senough to get them arrested.
And also there are the lawswhich have been put in place to
support the.
Survivor is being misused bythe abuser to help themselves
(27:41):
and child custody becomes a bigissue, not if you don't have a
legal status and stuff.
It becomes very tough.
Child custody battle becomes so.
That is one of the reasons manysurvivors don't want to report
it either the fear of losing thechildren would you?
Speaker 4 (28:00):
say the same would you.
Would you add anything to that,jessia?
Speaker 5 (28:04):
yeah, I would.
I would say that it's importantto highlight that, um,
survivors are experiencing thesemultiple abuses simultaneously.
So, um, you know, to kind oflike drive the point home, like
if a survivor has uS citizenchildren, maybe they are unable
(28:25):
to work and they're financiallydependent and they're being
threatened that the childrenwill be taken away from you I
have the money to hire attorneysand you don't, and so these are
situations that are kind oflike trapping a survivor in this
(28:46):
cycle.
Wow.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
So I have an interesting question to kind of
maybe hear your take on this aswell.
So I was having a discussion theother day with somebody.
Fremont, the city of Fremont,has been rated the happiest city
in America three years in a rowand obviously there's opinions
(29:10):
as to why or how or if that'sactually valid.
But I was having a discussionyesterday with somebody and we
were talking about the fact thatone of the metrics that they
use in doing that study is thedivorce rate.
So Fremont does not have a highdivorce rate, and they were
(29:31):
saying that part of the reasonwhy that divorce rate is so low
is because of the type ofcultures that many of the
families come from, that livehere in Fremont come from, that
live here in Fremont.
And obviously what we'retalking about speaks to the
reason why the divorce rate ispotentially and probably so low.
(29:59):
And so my question for you is,in your experience and obviously
, like you were saying, betweenJanuary and June it was over 500
calls that you had to field andto respond to and so on, which
is a lot you know.
So I guess my question for youis what are your thoughts when
(30:22):
you hear me say those like thatidea of Fremont being the
happiest city in America andthat directly tied to the
divorce rate.
Like what do you feel comingfrom the South Asian culture,
coming from the things thatyou've had to deal with?
Like what are some of yourthoughts on that title and those
(30:47):
statistics?
Speaker 3 (30:48):
Yeah, this is a topic me and my kids talk about a lot
actually, and they have a goodlaugh.
So, yes, fremont has a largeAsian population and it is
possible that the divorce rateis low because of the cultural
(31:10):
influence you know and we don'tknow in reality.
Yes, they may be married onpaper, but that doesn't mean
that the marriage is workingreally right.
So, and yeah, to me, I don'tknow, I felt like that was not a
right assessment to say youknow, yes, we do have Bart close
(31:36):
by.
You know, it's a good community.
A lot of things are there inFremont and I've lived here for
so many years.
I'm not going to complain aboutFremont, but just based on the
divorce statistics to sayFremont is the best place.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
I don't agree with that I was going to say, just to
be clear, that's not the onlymetric that they use for
determining that I just find itinteresting that there are other
human elements behind themetrics that kind of maybe cause
a metric to lean one way or theother.
Speaker 5 (32:38):
What do you think, joss?
I think it's important tounderstand that when we need to
broaden our understanding ofwhat it means to leave an
abusive situation.
In many times when survivorsare leaving, it doesn't mean
that the the relationship hasnecessarily ended, that they
have filed for divorce.
The you know, I think that'sone of the important struggles
(32:59):
that survivors are dealing withis is this issue of you know, do
I file for divorce?
Many times there's thepractical issue of you know, if
I file for divorce, then Ithere's the possibility that I'm
gonna lose status in thiscountry.
So there's there's that reasonthat folks are not filing for
(33:19):
divorce.
And there, you know, many timesdivorce is also used as a threat
by the abusive partner.
You know, whether it's forpractical reasons or because
there's a lot of societalrepercussions.
One thing that is that's truefor for domestic violence
(33:41):
survivors in general, isoftentimes leaving also can mean
losing their community, andparticularly for immigrant
survivors, if your home is inFremont and the shelter maybe
that's available is in anothercity, there's this fear of I'm
(34:02):
going to go to a place that youknow that's, you know, unknown
I'm going to, I'm going to losecommunity, yeah, and so there
there's a lot of societalpressures that that, even when a
survivor has been able to leavethe, the, the that environment,
there are reasons they may theythey may need to stay married
(34:24):
or choose to stay married Wow.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
I was going to say.
We had another guest on herelike a month or two ago and we
were talking about arrangedmarriages as well and how that
factors into the relationalchallenges, the problems that
might arise within a marriagerelationship.
(34:47):
And I think to your, to yourpoint if, if, if, number one,
there's an arranged marriage andnumber two, if it's up to the
wife to make the marriage work,I mean that gets that become.
There's a lot of pressure there, there's a lot, that's a lot of
challenges that are attached tothat but I want to include like
it.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
It doesn't have to necessarily be an arranged
marriage.
It's possible the couple met incollege or something, but they
would have fought.
Like it.
It doesn't have to necessarilybe an arranged marriage.
It's possible the couple met incollege or somewhere but they
would have fought with thefamily to marry this person.
It's possible.
The family said he's not a goodright fit for you or whatever,
and they would have fought andeven alienated the family at
(35:28):
times.
So, then again, they arefighting to keep this marriage
going, because they fought somuch to marry this person in the
first place.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
Jossie, you had a comment.
Speaker 5 (35:40):
Yeah, I also wanted to add just the emotional aspect
of survivors being gaslit, ofsurvivors being gaslit.
So you know, there is thesocietal pressure that you know
the woman has to adjust and takecare of the family, the
children, their husband.
(36:03):
You know, even if they want towork, the household comes first
and then they're sort of allowedto work.
The household comes first andthen they're sort of allowed to
work.
So so part of the, thegaslighting and the emotional
abuse that I'm so many of thesurvivors go through, is they're
being told that you are not agood wife, you are not a good
(36:24):
mother.
And I want to just pause hereand say that I know I'm using a
lot of gendered language andpart of that is because that
domestic violence is a genderbased issue and and so and Rebbe
can share statistics Majorityof the folks that we are serving
(36:44):
are women.
So so, kind of going back tolike divorce rates, and this is
where I kind of want to talk alittle bit more about
empowerment, the, the journeythat a survivor goes through is
it can be incredibly long.
You know I go back to.
(37:05):
You know, sometimes when asurvivor has left is is finally
when they've gotten the freedomto start to live their life.
You know so.
So there is a lot of, you know,with the help of the therapists
that we work with, survivorsalso have access to support
groups.
They are building communitywith other survivors, um and
(37:30):
through through that journey ofum working, working through
their trauma, um gaining umempowerment.
Uh, that's often needed beforethey, before um, they believe an
injustice has been done to them.
Because, uh, you know, manytimes when, um, when survivors
(37:50):
do speak up, um, especially likemaybe early on in the marriage
they've shared with theirparents hey, you know this is
going on.
They're told to.
You know, adjust, work throughit.
You know things like that, that, and so there's also this
(38:15):
journey of empowerment that asurvivor, survivor goes to where
it takes time to, to takecontrol of that.
That's great, that's great, I'mcurious.
Speaker 4 (38:23):
I really like what you're talking about, as far as,
like, it's not just rescuingand pulling people out of a
horrible situation, but there'slike a whole nurturing and a
building up and empoweringelement to this as well, because
I, you know, I think it's youknow.
They say you can give you cangive a boy a fish or you can
(38:44):
teach him how to fish, you know,it's like, in some sense, you
can help them in a situation,but oftentimes, I think,
probably because of the cultural, the power of the culture that
they're in, they gravitate rightback into a situation similar
to that again, or back into theone that they were just rescued
(39:04):
out of.
So being able to give them thepower and the freedom to be able
to say, no, I don't have tostay in this, I can make my own
decisions, I can make my owndecisions, I can be my own
person, that sort of thing Ithink is wonderful.
I'm curious if there's a partof this that you guys are doing
that is more preventative thanit is responsive.
(39:26):
So I'm curious because it seemsto me, yes, especially if
(39:49):
there's so many things happeningthis area that there you know
be helpful to have some sort ofprevention option available for
people as well.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
So we do have a prevention program.
It's called SUFFL and there isenough curriculum and training
going on in the community.
But this is more at theparenting level.
How do you raise a kid whodoesn't become an abuser, right?
So at that level is where ourprevention has started.
(40:22):
But you know, in the leadershipand stuff this is a discussion,
ongoing discussion challenge Iand J Jasya and others in the
team we have is we.
The clients we get are mostlyfirst generation immigrants,
right?
So this education has to happen, start back home, not after
(40:43):
they get married and come here.
But we do a lot of outreach insmall communities.
We do a lot of outreach insmall communities, like in the
gurudwaras and culturallyspecific.
(41:04):
You know, like sometimes duringDiwali and stuff, there are
like some events happening.
So we do table there and stuffto spread the word on what
domestic violence is right, sothat maybe hopefully a young
person who just got married andcame at least know, okay, what
are the signs I need to, whatare the red flags, what do I
need to look if they have thatdoubt in their mind am I, what
is happening to me?
Is there something not rightabout it?
(41:25):
At least then hopefully theyget one of our flyers and read
it, they know that that, okay,this is what domestic.
This is called domesticviolence.
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (41:36):
And I'd also like to add that one of our intentions
with creating the preventionprogram is, you know, we see
that so so many survivors and Iwould, I would say this is not
just true to survivors, but justpeople in general have never
really seen healthyrelationships modeled.
And I will say that, you know,in our culture there is, when it
(42:07):
comes to know that you, youreally do want your children to
succeed, particularly ineducation.
So I think oftentimes like, um,like young, young South Asian
folks are experiencing a lot ofpressure from like parents and
and things like that.
So so you know how to you know,be able to communicate healthy
(42:28):
if you've never seen that, thatmodeled and and I think what one
um, one uh thing that I want tohighlight that we talk about in
the prevention program is, um,like how, how parents can
apologize to their children youknow, because you have to be
able to see that modeled to, tobe able to reciprocate it.
And and that to be able toreciprocate it.
Speaker 4 (42:48):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 5 (42:50):
And that, you know, parenting is a really tough job
and it requires a lot ofcompassion and forgiveness to
yourself, and so we reallywanted to create that space,
because there is a huge, I think, gap between, you know, folks
(43:11):
who come to this country andfolks who are, who are growing
up here.
I, I can definitely speak tothat, you know.
I I grew up in a verytraditional home and well, I
think I think one thing, one keyexperience for me that I'm
(43:33):
aware of, is growing up here,I've had a lot more
opportunities and freedoms to dothings that previous
generations of women in myfamily have not been able to do,
of women in my family have notbeen able to do so.
(43:54):
With my privilege andunderstanding of issues that
immigrants face, I feel likeI've been able to bring that
into my work.
Speaker 4 (44:03):
That's great.
So I've got a question, becauseyou guys primarily deal with
South Asian situations, which Ithink I mean that's what we've
been talking about.
But America, the Westernculture, does not have it all
together either.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
I mean we've got our whole set of problems.
Speaker 4 (44:29):
So in some sense, I guess my question is it's like
what are some of the highlightsof prevention, what are some of
the things that are helpful?
Because I can imagine there'salso a sense of pride about your
own culture.
You know there's also a senseof like identity that you are
here in America, but you knowyou're from India.
(44:49):
You know, or you're from, youknow and or you're from you know
whatever community that it isthat that you're coming from,
and so what are some of thethings that are maybe that maybe
, that are maybe not tied to aculture but are just important
things for humans to learn?
Speaker 3 (45:10):
Yeah, since we brought this, we run many
support groups and our supportgroups, a lot of them, are a
mixed crowd, it's not just SouthAsians.
And when it comes to domesticviolence itself, the problems
that each survivor faces ispretty much the same, right,
whether it's what kind of abuse.
(45:31):
Well, immigrants may have thatimmigration abuse as an added
thing, but if you see, in thegeneral mindset, it doesn't
matter who it is.
You know, it can be a whitewoman, a black woman, a South
Asian woman.
But you know, jasya talkedabout that leaving the
relationship.
(45:52):
I don't think the mindset isvery different between any of
the cultures.
There are many studies to saypeople in domestic violence
relation, it's harder for themto leave the relationship.
In South Asian culture we cansay, okay, these are the
problems, maybe that they're notleaving.
But white women, black women,they all have other issues which
(46:16):
for to which they are tied tothis person, for whatever reason
it is, you know, and many of itis not because of money or
homelessness, or it can besomething which which they were
raised with.
Right, so feel in outreach even.
It's good that we started withthe parenting part and during
(46:37):
the Teen Dating Violence Month,we do go to high schools, talk
to teenagers have to know, right, what are the red flags I need
to watch out for, and theyshould be able to articulate
what they are seeing withintheir own families or what
they're seeing.
In fact.
The teen rate of domesticviolence, I think is one is to
(47:01):
three.
Yeah, right.
One in three.
Yeah, one, that's high, that'svery high, that's very.
And it is not whether they areSouth, it is across cultures.
It's one in three.
So education needs to start.
It doesn't matter where youcome from when you start a
relationship.
It's to identify, because manyof them may have normalized
(47:25):
domestic violence from what theysee.
It's a learned behavior.
They would have normalized it.
So to unlearn all those I thinkneeds to start at a younger age
and not after the relationshiphas already been set, because we
see a pattern.
Even kids growing up here,maybe South Asians or non-South
(47:47):
Asians, there is a pattern tothe relationship.
If you see, right from thestart they fall into the same
cycle of getting into an abusiverelationship.
So for me I think preventionstarts at a younger age.
Say we are seeing at narica.
(48:15):
I would say it has to start theday they step into um the
airport and out.
I think they need, they shouldbe given at least a pamphlet, a
brochure in the thing givingthem resources, I helping them
identify what healthy, unhealthy, especially if they're entering
through a visa connected totheir marriage.
I think helping them know whatis unhealthy, healthy, the
(48:38):
difference between theserelationships I think goes a
long way.
Speaker 4 (48:42):
Wow, do you have any thoughts on that?
Speaker 5 (48:46):
One key thing that we talk about in our prevention
work is how to have healthyconflict and resolve it in a
healthy way, because the truthis, in any type of relationship
you have whether it's anintimate partner relationship or
(49:07):
it's a sibling, cowork-workerconflicts do come up and how do
you resolve it in a healthymanner, and particularly in our
prevention program, it's focusedon conflict between parent and
child, and especially when.
(49:28):
I also want to add that for thesurvivors we're working with,
many times they have been toldthat they are not a good parent,
or they haven't been able toparent in a healthy manner
because of what has been goingon, or their child has been
impacted by the domesticviolence they have either
(49:48):
witnessed or experienced thedomestic violence they have
either witnessed or experienced.
So you know something as simpleas you know if your child is
doing something that might beupsetting you, not escalating
the situation, maybe taking abreak where you ground yourself
(50:10):
before engaging with your childand I think that's a skill that
anybody can use and learn andit's very important to have is
grounding yourself beforeengaging in something.
That's great.
Speaker 4 (50:31):
It's really sad that this exists, that a need for
Narika is so strong it is therefor how we ought to behave and
(50:59):
and and act toward one another.
Um, show kindness, or you know,forgiveness, or you know
whatever it is.
Um, you would think that therewouldn't be a need for this, and
yet it it still.
It still exists.
And, um, what are some of thechallenges that, uh, the
organization Narika faces?
Like, uh, what are some of thehurdles?
And are there?
Are there things that you guysfeel pressure on?
I mean, I, I mean, maybe I'mmaking it up in my head, but I,
(51:22):
I can only imagine that if youguys exist, the organization
exists, and there are abusersout there with a lot of power
and strength.
I can imagine that it's not aneasy thing for you to navigate
and even just kind of even existas an organization in some ways
.
And the fact that you've beenaround for what?
(51:43):
92,?
It's been 30 years maybe itjust seems like that would be a.
You probably have faced manychallenges along the way and you
probably are facing challengesas well.
So what are some of the thingsthat, as an organization, you
guys find challenging?
Speaker 3 (52:05):
I think, first, challenging, of course, money.
No matter how much money wehave, it's never enough, because
that much work, especially whenit comes to legal help, all
this costs a lot of money.
And we do provide them withfood and stuff.
So money, no matter how much wehave, it's never enough.
(52:28):
And the other to me, the otherthing is confidence.
To me, the other thing isconfident keeping the con, like
at anything that's said to us.
It's confidential, you know.
But we also want to make surethat the client so that because
of the tech, the techadvancement now, so tech abuse,
(52:50):
technology, I feel, is one ofthe major, one of the challenges
that we are seeing.
To keep the survivors safe, tomake sure their phones are not
tracked, their laptop there isno GPS tracker in their car, and
so on.
That is another major challenge.
And for us, the otherchallenges also, you know, are
(53:13):
we?
Sometimes we may not hear froma survivor for a long time.
It is not understanding is shesafe or did we not give her the
right resources?
And when we lose that contact,we are not.
But most of the time we saythat they are taking time to
think.
For themselves.
(53:34):
You know most of the we see themcome back, but that period for
me is very difficult.
Speaker 2 (53:40):
It's challenging.
Speaker 3 (53:41):
It's like is everything okay with this person
?
Because we cannot call the copsand say hey, do a well, check
on this person.
Because of confidentialityreason, we cannot do that.
So for me and for me's like, ifI don't, for some survivors we
may not have the right resourcesright and they end up going
(54:01):
back to the abuser yeah for methat's the hardest part when you
know whether it's because ofcommunity or lack of resources
that they are going back to theabuser.
That's, for me, the biggestchallenge.
Speaker 5 (54:16):
Would you?
Speaker 4 (54:17):
add anything, Jessie.
Speaker 5 (54:20):
So I think, by nature of what NARCA does, trying to
address gender-based violence.
We are fighting against systemsof oppression patriarchy and
all of that.
So I think you know we talkedearlier about how you know these
(54:42):
conversations are often, youknow, hard to have and, you know
, very taboo.
But one of the challenges andareas I think where people can
support is lean in, you know,but believe survivors when they
are sharing their stories,because the more you know,
(55:04):
sometimes people might not havethe funds to donate, but but you
, you may be passionate aboutthe cause and just you know, at
least providing that support,whether it's, like you know, on
like a community level, or youknow, one in four women
(55:25):
experience domestic violence,and we know that domestic
violence is one of the mostchronically underreported crimes
, reported crimes.
And so we the reality is, mostof us probably know a survivor,
and so it's so important thatsurvivors are believed, and
that's, I think, one of thenumber one things that NARCA
(55:48):
needs, along with funding,because the reality is that so
many times survivors are goingback because they are feeling so
isolated, they don't have thecommunity support, they they
feel like the the road to safetyis is is too long or it's too
(56:09):
hard, and and having thatsupport is so important.
Speaker 4 (56:15):
Yeah, that's great.
So I'm going to wrap it up here.
I appreciate you guys' time andall your information and
feedback.
I kind of want to end not thatI want to make light of anything
, but I kind of want to end on ahappier note, I guess maybe.
What are some of the thingsthat you appreciate about your
(56:38):
culture and this maybe the areathat we live in, where
immigrants find a new home here?
What are some of the thingsthat you appreciate and some of
the things that you findempowering already that exist
within your communities?
Speaker 3 (56:55):
For me it's you know, survivors being here, they are
heard, you know they actuallyhave, there are resources for
them to get you know, validatethat what they're going through
is and NARICA organizations likeNAR, like narika and save and
(57:16):
others they can seek help fromus.
Right and and as a culturalthing for me is is culturally
there are many positives that wecan help them with and actually
some of the old wisdom if youlisten to the grandmas and stuff
actually and I add that a lotto the support group saying, you
(57:39):
know, this is what my grandmareally said and actually this is
what she meant, you know.
So we can bring in a lot of thecultural thing to help them too
.
You know, and every quarter wedo kind of a gathering for the
survivors.
We try to do it around Ramadanor Diwali so that you know they
(58:03):
come dressed in their clothesand their fineries and food and
stuff, just so that we help thembreak that isolation.
And Bay Area really has a largeSouth Asian community.
I think, like Jasya said, if wehelp the community, help them
(58:24):
understand, bring them to theorganizations or even just
believe them, nothing more.
Speaker 4 (58:30):
What would you say to my question?
Speaker 5 (58:32):
I would say that nothing gets done without food
in our culture.
You know we love ourcelebrations and you know, even
even in our work, you know somuch of our community building
involves food, whether it'swhere you know we're caring for
(58:53):
the survivors, whether likebringing food to them at a
support group, or so many timeslike they they want to bring
something to to share.
You know from from their ownculture, and so there's just
there.
There's a lot of culinarytalents among the, the women
that that we work with, sothat's great.
Speaker 3 (59:15):
It is so nice to see the survivors come together, not
differentiating which countrythey are from.
It's just that togetherness andmany of them bond over these
groups and create a group ontheir own where they do meet
(59:35):
outside, and so that's like Ifeel like a big positive that we
have coming out of these groupsand they're not differentiating
.
Do you have money?
I have money, do you?
Which country are you from?
None of those things.
Speaker 4 (59:50):
That's great.
Yeah, I think that you know, insome sense summing up what we've
been talking about, the problemthat you guys have committed
your, your energy and your, yourlives to help as a human
problem.
It's not a cultural problem, Um,but on the flip side of that,
um, part of the answer is ahuman answer as well,
(01:00:13):
recognizing that it's.
You know that, as somebodycomes out of this and they're an
Afghan or they're from you knowPakistan, or they're from India
or they're from America, that,like coming together around a
good and a better humanity, isreally something that unites us,
(01:00:34):
as opposed to just our culturesand the things that that we
have.
It doesn't mean that we want todiminish those beautiful things
of each culture.
It just means that, ultimately,it's not the thing that
separates us.
You know these things are notwhere.
It's not a bad.
It's not a bad culture in thesense that this is an abusive
culture.
It's just that this is there's.
You have to learn how to dealwith those problems within the
(01:00:56):
culture that that you that youthat you're a part of yeah, if
people wanted to reach out tonarika.
Like how do they do that?
Is there um website phonenumber?
Speaker 5 (01:01:06):
yes, they can go to narikaorg okay and we um also
run a helpline, so our helplinenumber is 800-215-7308.
And our helpline operates fromMonday through Friday, 8 am to 8
pm.
(01:01:27):
Or if you know somebody thatneeds help and you want to talk
to a domestic violence advocate,you can reach out to speak to
someone, and everything that'sspoken about on the helpline is
confidential.
Speaker 4 (01:01:44):
That's great Thank you guys very much, I really
appreciate it and thank you forthe work that you're doing in
our community.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
This episode was hosted and produced by Ricky B.
I'm Gary Williams, andrew Kvetis the editor.
Scheduling and pre-interviewsby Sarah S.
Be sure to subscribe whereverit is that you listen so you
don't miss an episode.
You can find everything we make, the podcast and all of our
social media links atthefremontpodcastcom.
(01:02:14):
Join us next week on theFremont Podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:02:18):
This is a Muggins Media Podcast.
a small courtyard right off theside of the Mission San Jose.
It's very close to theintersection between Mission
Boulevard and WashingtonBoulevard.
It's peaceful and relativelyquiet.
It has benches and a concreteplatform with trees and flowers
and trash cans that you can use.
(00:39):
This is a story about peoplefinding a use for little places.
If you give them those littleplaces.
This is a courtyard that'sbasically public and so, yeah,
anyone could come in and sitdown and do whatever they want.
But the reason I'm bothering tomention it is because people
(01:04):
have found a use for this littlespace.
It's developed organically.
There's a group of people whocome here regularly to exercise,
or, at a minimum, they make ita stop on their run to stretch.
I've seen people who regularlymake this place a dinner spot, a
picnic place for themselves.
I saw one person make this intoan office spot, a picnic place
(01:25):
for themselves.
I saw one person make this intoan office space, at least
temporarily.
There are power plugs here.
I don't know if they work, butit's a lovely place to get some
work done.
I guess if I have a point, it'sthat if you provide space to
people, they will find a use forit, and if you don't, then they
(01:46):
probably won't think of it, sowe should.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
You are listening to episode 123 of the Fremont
Podcast, dedicated to tellingthe stories of the past and
present of the people and placesof the city of Fremont.
One conversation at a time.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
There was no reporting domestic violence and
there were no words calling thisdomestic violence.
There were no terms.
Even now I don't think in locallanguages there are terms to
say this is domestic violence.
I, at least in my language.
I don't know Wow.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Now here's your host, Ricky B.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Somebody could be listening to this podcast, or it
could be, you know, um hearinga presentation that you guys
give about what you offer andthey might think, well, that's
not me, that's not my situation,and there's kind of like the
reservation to even reach outfor help, because whether it's
(02:54):
just feeling you know the personis feeling responsible for the
problems that they're goingthrough, or whether it's just
the guilt of being a part ofsomething that would bring shame
on your family or on yourcommunity or whatever, or it's
just that I need to be strongerand be able to deal with my own
(03:14):
problems, because there's adifficulty in defining what
domestic abuse is.
In defining what domestic abuseis, it might be that people
just would pass up on this andjust go on.
So how would you definedomestic abuse?
(03:36):
If you're trying to helpsomebody understand whether
their situation they're in issomething that they need to
think differently about, howwould you define it for them?
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Okay.
So my first point would be thatphysical abuse is not the only
form of domestic abuse.
Most survivors go throughemotional abuse, which is as bad
or worse than physical abuse,bad or worse than physical abuse
.
So what is emotional abuse?
Emotional abuse, like Jasyamentioned, involves a lot of the
(04:09):
gaslighting, right?
Some gaslighting is very subtle, like the community saying, oh,
you're saying he's abusive toyou, but there's no need for him
to abuse he had.
He's well educated, he has agood, high paying job, so, and
(04:30):
then that thought process in theclients mind okay, am I
overthinking this?
Yeah, he is educated, he isproviding.
You know, my kids are going togood schools, whatever, so they
gaslight.
That's subtle forms ofgaslighting, right?
That is emotional abuse.
Do you have access to moneywhere you don't have to beg that
(04:53):
person for you?
I'm not talking about expensivestuff, I'm talking about basic
needs, like your basic needs,what you need, like getting
going for a doctor checkup,going for to the dentist,
getting your basic needs likesanitary napkins.
Are you begging this person ordo you have access to that, you
(05:15):
know?
And verbal abuse, you know.
And, uh, many clients tell usoh, oh, you know he probably had
a bad day, he's a nice person,but, you know, once in a while
this happens.
He shouts at me or screams atme.
But our thing is is this acycle?
(05:36):
Okay, if it happened once in awhile, he apologized and
corrected that behavior, thenit's not domestic violence.
But if this is happening, itmay happen once in three months,
but the rest of the two monthsand 29 days are you walking on
eggshells because you'rethinking this explosion needs to
(05:58):
, is going to come and you arealtering your life based to
prevent.
That right.
That is.
Control, that's right, that iscontrol.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
So yeah, so um yeah, the control, I think, element is
what I'm hearing, especially inum somebody trying to do
whatever they can to make surethey have what they need, or or
trying to, like you said, walkon eggshells or whatever, just
not having the freedom to beable to live a normal life,
(06:29):
having to orient your lifearound somebody else's responses
or their control over you.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
And it can be.
Most of it is a lot of coercionright, and sometimes the
coercion is verypassive-aggressive.
It's like the abuser may nottalk to the person, so you feel
coerced.
Okay, maybe I did somethingwrong, let me not do that again.
So you're constantly trying toalter your life to fit the mood
(07:01):
swings of this other person, sothat that person is not causing
an explosion at home.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Jossie, do you have any?
Addition to that definition, tothat idea, yeah.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
Domestic violence is rooted in having power and
control over somebody, and so Ithink where, if there is not
clear-cut abuse, where it mightbe like physical abuse sometimes
people can struggle withidentifying, like, am I in an
abusive situation?
Because, like Breba was saying,domestic violence involves a
(07:42):
pattern of behavior.
It doesn't just happen one time, and I think that's because
it's a pattern.
Someone has to experiencethings repeatedly to even be
able to, sort of like, identifyit right.
That's right.
(08:02):
And so I think that, think thatthat's an unfortunate aspect,
right to where you're having toidentify this pattern, and so I
think some key things that youknow.
Someone maybe can askthemselves is you know, am, am I
able to communicate my needsand are are my needs being heard
(08:24):
?
Um, or does it like?
Or does it like always, alwaysbecome a fight?
You know it?
Does it become like oh, I'm,I'm asking for too much, my
needs are too?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
much Am.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
I being too dramatic.
Um, you know, are like are my,are my boundaries being crossed?
Um, and I would say, would saylike an important thing is to be
able to have agency in yourrelationship.
Um, because the thing is, um,uh, there's a lot of information
that you know folks can likegoogle online to to understand
(08:59):
what different forms of abusecan look like.
Um, um, so, because, becausedomestic violence is, it's, it's
unfortunately not a cookiecutter, right, but the thing is,
am I, am I able to have agency,communicate my needs and
communicate them in a safemanner?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
because usually the answer is no to all of those in
a domestic violence situationUsually the answer is no to all
of those in a domestic violencesituation.
Speaker 5 (09:25):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Well, it's good to have you guys here today.
You both are, so you work forNarika, right, and Narika is an
organization.
Is it a nonprofit?
Yes, okay, but you guys are notvolunteers though.
You guys are employed there oryou are volunteers.
Speaker 5 (09:42):
No we are staff volunteers.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Okay, very good.
So, prabha, what is Narika Like?
What tell me?
Tell me a little bit about whatit is as an organization, what
they do and and how long they'vebeen around.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
So Narika has been around since 1992, which is
almost 32 years.
So we are a non-profit.
Two years so we are anon-profit.
We work with domestic violencesurvivors from the Bay Area, but
(10:15):
our focus is on the South Asianpopulation going through
domestic violence.
Speaker 5 (10:21):
We, our services extend start with our helpline,
where people call into ourhelpline 800-215-7308.
So our helpline number is800-215-7308.
And our helpline operates fromMonday through Friday, 8am to
8pm.
So if a survivor needs help oryou know, if you know somebody
(10:46):
that needs help and you want totalk to a domestic violence
advocate, you can reach out tospeak to someone.
And everything that's spokenabout on the helpline is
confidential.
That's great.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
And we do the needs assessment and we do whatever is
necessary they may some of themmay need to get out immediately
, so we have emergency safenights program where we can
bring them in or place them inother domestic violence shelters
.
We continue to do casemanagement, like giving them
(11:22):
legal consultation, help withpaperwork like restraining order
and divorce.
We help them, we connect themto therapists, culturally
responsive therapists who aretrauma-informed and that they've
worked with domestic violencesurvivors.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Okay, okay Is Narika?
Is it local or is it anorganization?
That's all over the place.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
So we are based in Alameda County in Fremont and we
serve anyone calling us, butour services can, like case
management, can only extend topeople living in California,
because legal support andeverything has to be local, okay
(12:07):
.
But we do get calls, even fromIndia.
Oh, wow, yes that's because wehave many clients who have been
abandoned.
It's called transnationalabandonment.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
Oh, my word.
Yeah, oh my word, Wow.
So how did you hear aboutNarika?
You said that you were.
It started in 1992.
What was your introduction tothis organization?
Speaker 3 (12:30):
So, like I said, I just I was introduced to one of
the co-founders about, I think,93.
And she was talking about butit was like grassroots, it's
still, we're still grassroots.
You know about how, you knowthis and, like I said, that was
my first introduction.
I didn't even know thatorganizations existed to help
(12:53):
something like this at cost likethis.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
Wow.
So it was kind of a shock toyou that this kind of
organization Shock and a verypleasant surprise.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Okay, why is?
Speaker 4 (13:05):
it so surprising?
What is it about what youexperienced in your introduction
to that?
Why is that such a surprise toyou?
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Yeah, so back home, domestic violence is not
something you talk about.
This is something a familydeals with it.
There were no laws at that timeto support domestic violence
Nobody.
There was no reporting domesticviolence and there were no
(13:34):
words calling this domesticviolence.
There were no terms.
Even now, I don't think inlocal languages there are terms
to say this is domestic violence.
I, at least in my language.
I don't know what exists, sothis is domestic violence.
I, at least in my language.
I don't know what exists.
So this is a family issue.
It's husband and wife don't getalong.
That's what they call it.
They don't say that she's goingbecause it's up to a woman.
(13:58):
It's a patriarchal society,like what Jasia said.
It's up to the woman to makethe marriage work.
Wow.
If she says I am not able toput up with it, I'm leaving,
then it's her fault, it's not.
He has to correct himself.
Or you know, this is destroyingthe children and the wife.
(14:18):
None of those.
That topic doesn't come up atall.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
Wow, yeah, that's amazing.
We're going to talk more aboutthat in a minute, but I want to
hear from Jasia.
Jasia, tell me a little bitabout how you got introduced to
Nareka and maybe a little bit ofyour story about you know your
life brought you to where youare here.
Speaker 5 (14:40):
Yeah.
So I got involved in thedomestic violence prevention
movement as a volunteer incollege.
I was always drawn to socialissues, partly because I think
my experiences as a young person, also growing up in an
(15:00):
immigrant household, kind ofopened my eyes to social issues,
and so I was involved inworking with the homeless
community and that eventuallyled me to getting involved with
a local domestic violenceorganization.
And so after college I ended upcoming to the Fremont area and
(15:29):
got employed with one of thedomestic violence agencies here,
like Naraka, partly because, asPrabha said, you know, domestic
violence is kind of an issuethat is not talked about in our
(15:50):
community.
It's sort of like it's a familyissue that is addressed behind
like closed doors.
And, however, we know that thereality is that domestic
violence has many, many societalimpacts.
So I kind of saw a lot ofdomestic violence growing up
(16:11):
around me and I can only imaginewhat an immigrant survivor is
going through.
Survivor is going throughtrying to.
(16:31):
You know, come to this country,you know learn about a new
place and you know navigate,getting out of, getting staying
safe in a relationship.
So some of those experiencesand understandings brought me to
Naka and I'm very happy andfortunate that my background can
contribute to helping folks inneed.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
Yeah, that's amazing, I'm interested.
So, prabha, you moved to the USin 1992, is that?
Speaker 2 (17:01):
correct, that's right , and you lived in India before
that.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Okay, and then you are, your parents are immigrants
.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
But you were born here in the US in 1992, is that
correct?
And you lived in India beforethat?
Yes, and then you are.
Speaker 5 (17:09):
Your parents are immigrants but you were born
here in the US, is that right?
Yes, so my parents came to theUS in the 90s and I was born
shortly after they came to thiscountry.
So you know, I was sort of asthey were learning this country.
You know, I was also growing uphere.
You were learning it as well.
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
I just find it interesting, because I think it
is fascinating, that both of youwere surprised that something
like this existed.
You, prabha, had the experienceof growing up in India, where
the culture is just kind of likeyou know it's.
It's like the story of theolder fish asking the younger
fish hey, how's the water?
(17:49):
And they're like what's water?
You know, in in in that, in thatsense you're, you're like, you
know, this is the culture thatyou've always known.
It's, it was everything thatmade sense to you.
In one sense, you, jossia, hada mixed experience because in
the house, at home, you wouldhave, and probably within your
(18:12):
tightest community, you had,what existed from that South
Asian culture that your parentsgrew up in and that they were
from, but at the same time, youwere being exposed to a lot of
the American culture as well.
So, but it's interesting to methat both of you were surprised
because of what your experiencehad been within within that
(18:34):
culture.
Um, I, what would you say?
Uh is the.
I believe probably you weresaying that the term for
domestic violence does not evenexist.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Possibly, I don't know anymore.
Possibly they have because lawsIndia and Pakistan and other
places, laws have changed.
They have introduced laws tosupport survivors of domestic
violence, so I'm sure they haveto support survivors of domestic
violence, so I'm sure they have.
But when I was growing up,nobody used words to explain
(19:11):
what is going on.
These were not terms that youthere were no terms that you
used to say this person is goingthrough domestic violence right
.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
How many people work for Nareka?
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Right now 13.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
13?
Speaker 3 (19:23):
13.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
And you guys stay busy.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Oh 7, oh really wow so.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
So I think that surprises me, and maybe it's
because I have this, you know,vision of like a wonderful bay
area community, you know, andit's just like the fact that you
could have 13 people workingfor an organization like this
and you're staying busy all thetime with problems.
I don't want, obviously youcan't tell the stories of the
people, but, like, what are someof the things that have
(19:51):
surprised you the most as you'veworked for Nureka?
Speaker 3 (19:55):
For me it's still surprising, so let me give you
just a little numbers.
I know data is not, so till theend of from Jan 1st 2024 to
June 30th, we have served about520 clients and seven close to
75 percent of them are SouthAsians.
(20:15):
We don't, we provide ourservices to anyone who calls us.
We are not saying yes, notSouth Asian, or we serve.
So about 75 percent of them areSouth Asians.
And I also run a support groupand I was surprised even
yesterday, one of the survivorstelling me that I'm so glad I
(20:38):
came to know of Narika, whichwas just a few months ago.
Wow, so she's also lived inthis country a while.
Wow.
And she said if I had knownorganizations like this were
doing this kind of stuff, andeven sometimes clients.
All that they need isvalidation that what they're
going through is not right,nothing more than that.
(21:00):
Even to get that, they said, ifI had known, I think I would
have sought this help long timeago yeah, I think there's.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
There's got to be a multiple sides, multiple facets
to that, because there's one,you know, I didn't know that the
organization itself existed,but then, two, I didn't know
that it was okay to reach out,yeah, to the organization, like
I think you were even saying.
It's something that thehusbands and wives deal with.
(21:29):
They don't get along in theirhome, but it's not an abuse
issue, it's just a relationshipproblem.
What's been the biggest, what'sbeen the most surprising thing
for you, josiah?
Speaker 5 (21:46):
I think the most surprising thing has been seeing
how much resilience thesurvivors have even before
connecting with us, and howthey've managed to stay safe in
their relationship in the waysthat, um, they've needed to.
(22:08):
And there was a key thing thatyou said that, um that stood out
to me was that it it's okay toactually call us um.
One thing that we always have,uh are telling folks on our
helpline is that theseconversations are confidential,
um, and that's that's a reallyimportant thing to say on our
helpline is that theseconversations are confidential
and that's that's a reallyimportant thing to say on the
(22:28):
helpline, partly because,because the family unit is so
important in South Asian culture, someone even reaching out and
talking to a stranger aboutwhat's going on in their home is
is very taboo and it's not okay.
(22:49):
So so when some, when asurvivor is calling us, we are
actually thanking them andvalidating them for for calling
and seeking that support,because that's what we're here
for.
So I am struck by theirresilience and their courage to
say what I'm experiencing is notokay and I'm going to ask for
(23:14):
help.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Wow, can you tell me like I know that probably you
mentioned a number of servicesthat you offer.
You kind of listed off a fewthings very quickly um, what are
?
What are some of the like?
What's the main thing that youfind yourself dealing with?
Like, is there one main problemor maybe a couple different
(23:37):
things that you find yourselfdoing?
I'm sure there's the extremesas well, where somebody, I mean,
is in a horrible, you know,situation where it's just like
you know you've got to get,we've got to help immediately.
Hopefully that's not whatyou're always dealing with, but
what are some of the main issuesthat you're dealing with on a
(23:58):
regular basis?
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Okay, One of the main .
Like ours, we deal with mostlySouth Asian community, so
they're all immigrants.
So one of the main things wedeal is with their immigration
status.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
So in the Bay Area, as you know, silicon Valley has
a lot of tech workers and theyare all on this visa, h-1b visa.
So the spouse is dependent onthe abuser and they're on a visa
it's called H-4 visa.
So the person holding the H-1Bdoesn't have any obligation to
(24:39):
apply or renew the H-4 visa.
So what happens is they getmarried, they come on an H-4,
children born here are citizensUS citizens so if the mom
doesn't have a status, she hasto go back home Because she's
tied to her husband, who's aworker.
(25:00):
Yes, yes, there are immigrationsolutions available, but that is
only if you have filed a policereport or a restraining order.
And many of them choose not to.
They don't want law enforcementor the courts involved in their
(25:23):
life, so they would have nevermade a report.
So how do you apply for this Uvisa?
or anything, and so it becomes achallenge to deal with the
immigration status.
That is one thing.
The second thing is thefinancial dependency on the
abuser.
Many of them may not have whatis called an EAD, a work permit
(25:47):
to work in this country, andsome of them are not given an
EAD by the abuser, and many ofthem may not be qualified or
they may be language challenged.
They may not have enoughEnglish to get a job like even
in a retail store or somethinglike that.
So then, and even if they areearning, we have some very
(26:09):
high-earning survivors whosemoney goes into a joint account
and they don't have access totheir own.
They never see it.
Wow, they never see it.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
So that's the second biggest.
I would actually say finance isthe first and then immigration.
These are the main two biggestissues, other than dealing with
law enforcement and other thingsthat we see.
And then the third comes, whichis the key is child custody.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Okay, oh, wow, yeah, the key is child custody.
Okay.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Oh, wow, yeah, so we see.
And in the South Asiancommunity, one new thing that we
are seeing you know more andmore is the abuser calls the
cops on the survivor, oh my word.
So he may have tried.
He or she may have tried topush the survivor.
You know, may have tried tochoke her or attack her, and
(27:09):
sometimes the survivor putstheir hand to push them away and
there may be a nail mark, andthat's enough.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
And sometimes they have recordings of the survivor
saying things, but it is afterthey have been provoked into
saying something and that'senough to get them arrested.
And also there are the lawswhich have been put in place to
support the.
Survivor is being misused bythe abuser to help themselves
(27:41):
and child custody becomes a bigissue, not if you don't have a
legal status and stuff.
It becomes very tough.
Child custody battle becomes so.
That is one of the reasons manysurvivors don't want to report
it either the fear of losing thechildren would you?
Speaker 4 (28:00):
say the same would you.
Would you add anything to that,jessia?
Speaker 5 (28:04):
yeah, I would.
I would say that it's importantto highlight that, um,
survivors are experiencing thesemultiple abuses simultaneously.
So, um, you know, to kind oflike drive the point home, like
if a survivor has uS citizenchildren, maybe they are unable
(28:25):
to work and they're financiallydependent and they're being
threatened that the childrenwill be taken away from you I
have the money to hire attorneysand you don't, and so these are
situations that are kind oflike trapping a survivor in this
(28:46):
cycle.
Wow.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
So I have an interesting question to kind of
maybe hear your take on this aswell.
So I was having a discussion theother day with somebody.
Fremont, the city of Fremont,has been rated the happiest city
in America three years in a rowand obviously there's opinions
(29:10):
as to why or how or if that'sactually valid.
But I was having a discussionyesterday with somebody and we
were talking about the fact thatone of the metrics that they
use in doing that study is thedivorce rate.
So Fremont does not have a highdivorce rate, and they were
(29:31):
saying that part of the reasonwhy that divorce rate is so low
is because of the type ofcultures that many of the
families come from, that livehere in Fremont come from, that
live here in Fremont.
And obviously what we'retalking about speaks to the
reason why the divorce rate ispotentially and probably so low.
(29:59):
And so my question for you is,in your experience and obviously
, like you were saying, betweenJanuary and June it was over 500
calls that you had to field andto respond to and so on, which
is a lot you know.
So I guess my question for youis what are your thoughts when
(30:22):
you hear me say those like thatidea of Fremont being the
happiest city in America andthat directly tied to the
divorce rate.
Like what do you feel comingfrom the South Asian culture,
coming from the things thatyou've had to deal with?
Like what are some of yourthoughts on that title and those
(30:47):
statistics?
Speaker 3 (30:48):
Yeah, this is a topic me and my kids talk about a lot
actually, and they have a goodlaugh.
So, yes, fremont has a largeAsian population and it is
possible that the divorce rateis low because of the cultural
(31:10):
influence you know and we don'tknow in reality.
Yes, they may be married onpaper, but that doesn't mean
that the marriage is workingreally right.
So, and yeah, to me, I don'tknow, I felt like that was not a
right assessment to say youknow, yes, we do have Bart close
(31:36):
by.
You know, it's a good community.
A lot of things are there inFremont and I've lived here for
so many years.
I'm not going to complain aboutFremont, but just based on the
divorce statistics to sayFremont is the best place.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
I don't agree with that I was going to say, just to
be clear, that's not the onlymetric that they use for
determining that I just find itinteresting that there are other
human elements behind themetrics that kind of maybe cause
a metric to lean one way or theother.
Speaker 5 (32:38):
What do you think, joss?
I think it's important tounderstand that when we need to
broaden our understanding ofwhat it means to leave an
abusive situation.
In many times when survivorsare leaving, it doesn't mean
that the the relationship hasnecessarily ended, that they
have filed for divorce.
The you know, I think that'sone of the important struggles
(32:59):
that survivors are dealing withis is this issue of you know, do
I file for divorce?
Many times there's thepractical issue of you know, if
I file for divorce, then Ithere's the possibility that I'm
gonna lose status in thiscountry.
So there's there's that reasonthat folks are not filing for
(33:19):
divorce.
And there, you know, many timesdivorce is also used as a threat
by the abusive partner.
You know, whether it's forpractical reasons or because
there's a lot of societalrepercussions.
One thing that is that's truefor for domestic violence
(33:41):
survivors in general, isoftentimes leaving also can mean
losing their community, andparticularly for immigrant
survivors, if your home is inFremont and the shelter maybe
that's available is in anothercity, there's this fear of I'm
(34:02):
going to go to a place that youknow that's, you know, unknown
I'm going to, I'm going to losecommunity, yeah, and so there
there's a lot of societalpressures that that, even when a
survivor has been able to leavethe, the, the that environment,
there are reasons they may theythey may need to stay married
(34:24):
or choose to stay married Wow.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
I was going to say.
We had another guest on herelike a month or two ago and we
were talking about arrangedmarriages as well and how that
factors into the relationalchallenges, the problems that
might arise within a marriagerelationship.
(34:47):
And I think to your, to yourpoint if, if, if, number one,
there's an arranged marriage andnumber two, if it's up to the
wife to make the marriage work,I mean that gets that become.
There's a lot of pressure there, there's a lot, that's a lot of
challenges that are attached tothat but I want to include like
it.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
It doesn't have to necessarily be an arranged
marriage.
It's possible the couple met incollege or something, but they
would have fought.
Like it.
It doesn't have to necessarilybe an arranged marriage.
It's possible the couple met incollege or somewhere but they
would have fought with thefamily to marry this person.
It's possible.
The family said he's not a goodright fit for you or whatever,
and they would have fought andeven alienated the family at
(35:28):
times.
So, then again, they arefighting to keep this marriage
going, because they fought somuch to marry this person in the
first place.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
Jossie, you had a comment.
Speaker 5 (35:40):
Yeah, I also wanted to add just the emotional aspect
of survivors being gaslit, ofsurvivors being gaslit.
So you know, there is thesocietal pressure that you know
the woman has to adjust and takecare of the family, the
children, their husband.
(36:03):
You know, even if they want towork, the household comes first
and then they're sort of allowedto work.
The household comes first andthen they're sort of allowed to
work.
So so part of the, thegaslighting and the emotional
abuse that I'm so many of thesurvivors go through, is they're
being told that you are not agood wife, you are not a good
(36:24):
mother.
And I want to just pause hereand say that I know I'm using a
lot of gendered language andpart of that is because that
domestic violence is a genderbased issue and and so and Rebbe
can share statistics Majorityof the folks that we are serving
(36:44):
are women.
So so, kind of going back tolike divorce rates, and this is
where I kind of want to talk alittle bit more about
empowerment, the, the journeythat a survivor goes through is
it can be incredibly long.
You know I go back to.
(37:05):
You know, sometimes when asurvivor has left is is finally
when they've gotten the freedomto start to live their life.
You know so.
So there is a lot of, you know,with the help of the therapists
that we work with, survivorsalso have access to support
groups.
They are building communitywith other survivors, um and
(37:30):
through through that journey ofum working, working through
their trauma, um gaining umempowerment.
Uh, that's often needed beforethey, before um, they believe an
injustice has been done to them.
Because, uh, you know, manytimes when, um, when survivors
(37:50):
do speak up, um, especially likemaybe early on in the marriage
they've shared with theirparents hey, you know this is
going on.
They're told to.
You know, adjust, work throughit.
You know things like that, that, and so there's also this
(38:15):
journey of empowerment that asurvivor, survivor goes to where
it takes time to, to takecontrol of that.
That's great, that's great, I'mcurious.
Speaker 4 (38:23):
I really like what you're talking about, as far as,
like, it's not just rescuingand pulling people out of a
horrible situation, but there'slike a whole nurturing and a
building up and empoweringelement to this as well, because
I, you know, I think it's youknow.
They say you can give you cangive a boy a fish or you can
(38:44):
teach him how to fish, you know,it's like, in some sense, you
can help them in a situation,but oftentimes, I think,
probably because of the cultural, the power of the culture that
they're in, they gravitate rightback into a situation similar
to that again, or back into theone that they were just rescued
(39:04):
out of.
So being able to give them thepower and the freedom to be able
to say, no, I don't have tostay in this, I can make my own
decisions, I can make my owndecisions, I can be my own
person, that sort of thing Ithink is wonderful.
I'm curious if there's a partof this that you guys are doing
that is more preventative thanit is responsive.
(39:26):
So I'm curious because it seemsto me, yes, especially if
(39:49):
there's so many things happeningthis area that there you know
be helpful to have some sort ofprevention option available for
people as well.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
So we do have a prevention program.
It's called SUFFL and there isenough curriculum and training
going on in the community.
But this is more at theparenting level.
How do you raise a kid whodoesn't become an abuser, right?
So at that level is where ourprevention has started.
(40:22):
But you know, in the leadershipand stuff this is a discussion,
ongoing discussion challenge Iand J Jasya and others in the
team we have is we.
The clients we get are mostlyfirst generation immigrants,
right?
So this education has to happen, start back home, not after
(40:43):
they get married and come here.
But we do a lot of outreach insmall communities.
We do a lot of outreach insmall communities, like in the
gurudwaras and culturallyspecific.
(41:04):
You know, like sometimes duringDiwali and stuff, there are
like some events happening.
So we do table there and stuffto spread the word on what
domestic violence is right, sothat maybe hopefully a young
person who just got married andcame at least know, okay, what
are the signs I need to, whatare the red flags, what do I
need to look if they have thatdoubt in their mind am I, what
is happening to me?
Is there something not rightabout it?
(41:25):
At least then hopefully theyget one of our flyers and read
it, they know that that, okay,this is what domestic.
This is called domesticviolence.
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (41:36):
And I'd also like to add that one of our intentions
with creating the preventionprogram is, you know, we see
that so so many survivors and Iwould, I would say this is not
just true to survivors, but justpeople in general have never
really seen healthyrelationships modeled.
And I will say that, you know,in our culture there is, when it
(42:07):
comes to know that you, youreally do want your children to
succeed, particularly ineducation.
So I think oftentimes like, um,like young, young South Asian
folks are experiencing a lot ofpressure from like parents and
and things like that.
So so you know how to you know,be able to communicate healthy
(42:28):
if you've never seen that, thatmodeled and and I think what one
um, one uh thing that I want tohighlight that we talk about in
the prevention program is, um,like how, how parents can
apologize to their children youknow, because you have to be
able to see that modeled to, tobe able to reciprocate it.
And and that to be able toreciprocate it.
Speaker 4 (42:48):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 5 (42:50):
And that, you know, parenting is a really tough job
and it requires a lot ofcompassion and forgiveness to
yourself, and so we reallywanted to create that space,
because there is a huge, I think, gap between, you know, folks
(43:11):
who come to this country andfolks who are, who are growing
up here.
I, I can definitely speak tothat, you know.
I I grew up in a verytraditional home and well, I
think I think one thing, one keyexperience for me that I'm
(43:33):
aware of, is growing up here,I've had a lot more
opportunities and freedoms to dothings that previous
generations of women in myfamily have not been able to do,
of women in my family have notbeen able to do so.
(43:54):
With my privilege andunderstanding of issues that
immigrants face, I feel likeI've been able to bring that
into my work.
Speaker 4 (44:03):
That's great.
So I've got a question, becauseyou guys primarily deal with
South Asian situations, which Ithink I mean that's what we've
been talking about.
But America, the Westernculture, does not have it all
together either.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
I mean we've got our whole set of problems.
Speaker 4 (44:29):
So in some sense, I guess my question is it's like
what are some of the highlightsof prevention, what are some of
the things that are helpful?
Because I can imagine there'salso a sense of pride about your
own culture.
You know there's also a senseof like identity that you are
here in America, but you knowyou're from India.
(44:49):
You know, or you're from, youknow and or you're from you know
whatever community that it isthat that you're coming from,
and so what are some of thethings that are maybe that maybe
, that are maybe not tied to aculture but are just important
things for humans to learn?
Speaker 3 (45:10):
Yeah, since we brought this, we run many
support groups and our supportgroups, a lot of them, are a
mixed crowd, it's not just SouthAsians.
And when it comes to domesticviolence itself, the problems
that each survivor faces ispretty much the same, right,
whether it's what kind of abuse.
(45:31):
Well, immigrants may have thatimmigration abuse as an added
thing, but if you see, in thegeneral mindset, it doesn't
matter who it is.
You know, it can be a whitewoman, a black woman, a South
Asian woman.
But you know, jasya talkedabout that leaving the
relationship.
(45:52):
I don't think the mindset isvery different between any of
the cultures.
There are many studies to saypeople in domestic violence
relation, it's harder for themto leave the relationship.
In South Asian culture we cansay, okay, these are the
problems, maybe that they're notleaving.
But white women, black women,they all have other issues which
(46:16):
for to which they are tied tothis person, for whatever reason
it is, you know, and many of itis not because of money or
homelessness, or it can besomething which which they were
raised with.
Right, so feel in outreach even.
It's good that we started withthe parenting part and during
(46:37):
the Teen Dating Violence Month,we do go to high schools, talk
to teenagers have to know, right, what are the red flags I need
to watch out for, and theyshould be able to articulate
what they are seeing withintheir own families or what
they're seeing.
In fact.
The teen rate of domesticviolence, I think is one is to
(47:01):
three.
Yeah, right.
One in three.
Yeah, one, that's high, that'svery high, that's very.
And it is not whether they areSouth, it is across cultures.
It's one in three.
So education needs to start.
It doesn't matter where youcome from when you start a
relationship.
It's to identify, because manyof them may have normalized
(47:25):
domestic violence from what theysee.
It's a learned behavior.
They would have normalized it.
So to unlearn all those I thinkneeds to start at a younger age
and not after the relationshiphas already been set, because we
see a pattern.
Even kids growing up here,maybe South Asians or non-South
(47:47):
Asians, there is a pattern tothe relationship.
If you see, right from thestart they fall into the same
cycle of getting into an abusiverelationship.
So for me I think preventionstarts at a younger age.
Say we are seeing at narica.
(48:15):
I would say it has to start theday they step into um the
airport and out.
I think they need, they shouldbe given at least a pamphlet, a
brochure in the thing givingthem resources, I helping them
identify what healthy, unhealthy, especially if they're entering
through a visa connected totheir marriage.
I think helping them know whatis unhealthy, healthy, the
(48:38):
difference between theserelationships I think goes a
long way.
Speaker 4 (48:42):
Wow, do you have any thoughts on that?
Speaker 5 (48:46):
One key thing that we talk about in our prevention
work is how to have healthyconflict and resolve it in a
healthy way, because the truthis, in any type of relationship
you have whether it's anintimate partner relationship or
(49:07):
it's a sibling, cowork-workerconflicts do come up and how do
you resolve it in a healthymanner, and particularly in our
prevention program, it's focusedon conflict between parent and
child, and especially when.
(49:28):
I also want to add that for thesurvivors we're working with,
many times they have been toldthat they are not a good parent,
or they haven't been able toparent in a healthy manner
because of what has been goingon, or their child has been
impacted by the domesticviolence they have either
(49:48):
witnessed or experienced thedomestic violence they have
either witnessed or experienced.
So you know something as simpleas you know if your child is
doing something that might beupsetting you, not escalating
the situation, maybe taking abreak where you ground yourself
(50:10):
before engaging with your childand I think that's a skill that
anybody can use and learn andit's very important to have is
grounding yourself beforeengaging in something.
That's great.
Speaker 4 (50:31):
It's really sad that this exists, that a need for
Narika is so strong it is therefor how we ought to behave and
(50:59):
and and act toward one another.
Um, show kindness, or you know,forgiveness, or you know
whatever it is.
Um, you would think that therewouldn't be a need for this, and
yet it it still.
It still exists.
And, um, what are some of thechallenges that, uh, the
organization Narika faces?
Like, uh, what are some of thehurdles?
And are there?
Are there things that you guysfeel pressure on?
I mean, I, I mean, maybe I'mmaking it up in my head, but I,
(51:22):
I can only imagine that if youguys exist, the organization
exists, and there are abusersout there with a lot of power
and strength.
I can imagine that it's not aneasy thing for you to navigate
and even just kind of even existas an organization in some ways
.
And the fact that you've beenaround for what?
(51:43):
92,?
It's been 30 years maybe itjust seems like that would be a.
You probably have faced manychallenges along the way and you
probably are facing challengesas well.
So what are some of the thingsthat, as an organization, you
guys find challenging?
Speaker 3 (52:05):
I think, first, challenging, of course, money.
No matter how much money wehave, it's never enough, because
that much work, especially whenit comes to legal help, all
this costs a lot of money.
And we do provide them withfood and stuff.
So money, no matter how much wehave, it's never enough.
(52:28):
And the other to me, the otherthing is confidence.
To me, the other thing isconfident keeping the con, like
at anything that's said to us.
It's confidential, you know.
But we also want to make surethat the client so that because
of the tech, the techadvancement now, so tech abuse,
(52:50):
technology, I feel, is one ofthe major, one of the challenges
that we are seeing.
To keep the survivors safe, tomake sure their phones are not
tracked, their laptop there isno GPS tracker in their car, and
so on.
That is another major challenge.
And for us, the otherchallenges also, you know, are
(53:13):
we?
Sometimes we may not hear froma survivor for a long time.
It is not understanding is shesafe or did we not give her the
right resources?
And when we lose that contact,we are not.
But most of the time we saythat they are taking time to
think.
For themselves.
(53:34):
You know most of the we see themcome back, but that period for
me is very difficult.
Speaker 2 (53:40):
It's challenging.
Speaker 3 (53:41):
It's like is everything okay with this person
?
Because we cannot call the copsand say hey, do a well, check
on this person.
Because of confidentialityreason, we cannot do that.
So for me and for me's like, ifI don't, for some survivors we
may not have the right resourcesright and they end up going
(54:01):
back to the abuser yeah for methat's the hardest part when you
know whether it's because ofcommunity or lack of resources
that they are going back to theabuser.
That's, for me, the biggestchallenge.
Speaker 5 (54:16):
Would you?
Speaker 4 (54:17):
add anything, Jessie.
Speaker 5 (54:20):
So I think, by nature of what NARCA does, trying to
address gender-based violence.
We are fighting against systemsof oppression patriarchy and
all of that.
So I think you know we talkedearlier about how you know these
(54:42):
conversations are often, youknow, hard to have and, you know
, very taboo.
But one of the challenges andareas I think where people can
support is lean in, you know,but believe survivors when they
are sharing their stories,because the more you know,
(55:04):
sometimes people might not havethe funds to donate, but but you
, you may be passionate aboutthe cause and just you know, at
least providing that support,whether it's, like you know, on
like a community level, or youknow, one in four women
(55:25):
experience domestic violence,and we know that domestic
violence is one of the mostchronically underreported crimes
, reported crimes.
And so we the reality is, mostof us probably know a survivor,
and so it's so important thatsurvivors are believed, and
that's, I think, one of thenumber one things that NARCA
(55:48):
needs, along with funding,because the reality is that so
many times survivors are goingback because they are feeling so
isolated, they don't have thecommunity support, they they
feel like the the road to safetyis is is too long or it's too
(56:09):
hard, and and having thatsupport is so important.
Speaker 4 (56:15):
Yeah, that's great.
So I'm going to wrap it up here.
I appreciate you guys' time andall your information and
feedback.
I kind of want to end not thatI want to make light of anything
, but I kind of want to end on ahappier note, I guess maybe.
What are some of the thingsthat you appreciate about your
(56:38):
culture and this maybe the areathat we live in, where
immigrants find a new home here?
What are some of the thingsthat you appreciate and some of
the things that you findempowering already that exist
within your communities?
Speaker 3 (56:55):
For me it's you know, survivors being here, they are
heard, you know they actuallyhave, there are resources for
them to get you know, validatethat what they're going through
is and NARICA organizations likeNAR, like narika and save and
(57:16):
others they can seek help fromus.
Right and and as a culturalthing for me is is culturally
there are many positives that wecan help them with and actually
some of the old wisdom if youlisten to the grandmas and stuff
actually and I add that a lotto the support group saying, you
(57:39):
know, this is what my grandmareally said and actually this is
what she meant, you know.
So we can bring in a lot of thecultural thing to help them too
.
You know, and every quarter wedo kind of a gathering for the
survivors.
We try to do it around Ramadanor Diwali so that you know they
(58:03):
come dressed in their clothesand their fineries and food and
stuff, just so that we help thembreak that isolation.
And Bay Area really has a largeSouth Asian community.
I think, like Jasya said, if wehelp the community, help them
(58:24):
understand, bring them to theorganizations or even just
believe them, nothing more.
Speaker 4 (58:30):
What would you say to my question?
Speaker 5 (58:32):
I would say that nothing gets done without food
in our culture.
You know we love ourcelebrations and you know, even
even in our work, you know somuch of our community building
involves food, whether it'swhere you know we're caring for
(58:53):
the survivors, whether likebringing food to them at a
support group, or so many timeslike they they want to bring
something to to share.
You know from from their ownculture, and so there's just
there.
There's a lot of culinarytalents among the, the women
that that we work with, sothat's great.
Speaker 3 (59:15):
It is so nice to see the survivors come together, not
differentiating which countrythey are from.
It's just that togetherness andmany of them bond over these
groups and create a group ontheir own where they do meet
(59:35):
outside, and so that's like Ifeel like a big positive that we
have coming out of these groupsand they're not differentiating
.
Do you have money?
I have money, do you?
Which country are you from?
None of those things.
Speaker 4 (59:50):
That's great.
Yeah, I think that you know, insome sense summing up what we've
been talking about, the problemthat you guys have committed
your, your energy and your, yourlives to help as a human
problem.
It's not a cultural problem, Um,but on the flip side of that,
um, part of the answer is ahuman answer as well,
(01:00:13):
recognizing that it's.
You know that, as somebodycomes out of this and they're an
Afghan or they're from you knowPakistan, or they're from India
or they're from America, that,like coming together around a
good and a better humanity, isreally something that unites us,
(01:00:34):
as opposed to just our culturesand the things that that we
have.
It doesn't mean that we want todiminish those beautiful things
of each culture.
It just means that, ultimately,it's not the thing that
separates us.
You know these things are notwhere.
It's not a bad.
It's not a bad culture in thesense that this is an abusive
culture.
It's just that this is there's.
You have to learn how to dealwith those problems within the
(01:00:56):
culture that that you that youthat you're a part of yeah, if
people wanted to reach out tonarika.
Like how do they do that?
Is there um website phonenumber?
Speaker 5 (01:01:06):
yes, they can go to narikaorg okay and we um also
run a helpline, so our helplinenumber is 800-215-7308.
And our helpline operates fromMonday through Friday, 8 am to 8
pm.
(01:01:27):
Or if you know somebody thatneeds help and you want to talk
to a domestic violence advocate,you can reach out to speak to
someone, and everything that'sspoken about on the helpline is
confidential.
Speaker 4 (01:01:44):
That's great Thank you guys very much, I really
appreciate it and thank you forthe work that you're doing in
our community.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
This episode was hosted and produced by Ricky B.
I'm Gary Williams, andrew Kvetis the editor.
Scheduling and pre-interviewsby Sarah S.
Be sure to subscribe whereverit is that you listen so you
don't miss an episode.
You can find everything we make, the podcast and all of our
social media links atthefremontpodcastcom.
(01:02:14):
Join us next week on theFremont Podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:02:18):
This is a Muggins Media Podcast.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.