July 1, 2025 • 45 mins
A Phone Call. A Black Eye. A National Manhunt. | The Fronczak Files: Episode 2 – “The Abandonment”
🔍True Crime • Unsolved Mysteries • Identity Discovery • Foundling Case • FBI Cold Case
Two years after a newborn was stolen from Michael Reese Hospital in Chicago, a single unexpected phone call reignites a family's fading hope—and unravels one of the most shocking true crime stories in U.S. history.
In this powerful episode of The Fronczak Files, Paul Fronczak reveals the moment his life changed forever, from being found in a stroller with a black eye in Newark, NJ, to becoming the center of a coast-to-coast FBI manhunt.
👁️🗨️ This episode explores:
- The chilling phone call that reopened a cold case
- What it means to be labeled a “foundling”
- How the FBI narrowed one kidnapped child from over 10,000 potential matches
- The foster family that gave Paul a name, a birthday, and a second chance
- The bittersweet reunion with parents who barely recognized him
Watch as emotional truths surface, forgotten trauma is uncovered, and long-lost connections are pieced back together.
If you’re fascinated by:
- Real-life identity swaps
- Child abduction stories
- DNA discovery & genetic genealogy
- FBI cold case investigations
- Emotional family reunions
…this episode will grip you from start to finish.
Join the conversation:
What would YOU do if your past wasn’t what you thought it was?
Co-hosted by Paul Jack Fronczak and Tracey Hastings, Season 1 pulls you into the decades-long search for answers, identity, and justice. No theories. No holding back. Just the raw, unfiltered truth - told straight from the source.
Listen to Episode 1 first if you haven’t: https://youtu.be/BZSbV3sF8MU
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Theme Music by Paul Jack Fronczak and Rick Holland
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
And. all right.
Welcome back to The Fronczak Files.
(00:24):
Last episode we started this journey.
It's a journeythat's full of twists and turns and
if you missed it, don't start this one.
Go back and listen to the first one.
Kind of take that ride.
You have to really take itfrom the beginning.
So, Tracey,what are we going to talk about?
This episode in The Abandonment?
(00:47):
We left off at the phone call.
If I remember correctly,we sort of left our listeners hanging.
All right,so in this episode, the abandonment,
the Fronczaks had their childkidnaped from Michael Reese
Hospital back in 1964.
This is almost two years later,
(01:07):
right? Two years came and went.
No word on their missing baby.
And Dora and Chester decided.You know what?
We've got to start living our lives.We've got to move forward.
So Dora became pregnant,
and they thought, you know what?
We're going to keep keep hopingthat our child comes back.
But we can't just stop living.
(01:29):
And all of a sudden,they got a phone call.
So you said.
You said this was Almost two years later.
Yeah. had.
They had, like Paul'sbirthday came and went.
Holidays came and went.
Did your parents feel likethere was still hope?
Even though all of these milestones
(01:49):
That's a that's a great question.
I want to say my mom, Dora, never gave uphope.
Chester, I you know,I think he was more of a realist.
You know, he's like, it's been it'sbeen over two years.
I think we need to start moving forward.
You know, they had just bought a house.
She was pregnant with Dave,
(02:10):
and I
think he was ready for that next chapter.
And of course,just like everything else in life,
just when you think it's calm,all of a sudden this whole world opens up.
They get a phone call.
We think we found your child.
So that's, It's something,you know, people say that this is.
This could be a lifetime movieor something, but it's.
But but no one would believe it. Right.
(02:33):
Yeah.
I mean, sometimesyou probably have trouble believing it.
That I'm not even sure I do at this point.
But but I have I have all this hard proofsaying that it is true, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I'm sticking. Sticking to it? Yeah.
you know, thinking about your parentsagain, getting that phone call.
(02:54):
Out of the blue,thinking their life was on track.
They've got these plans, this new baby
coming and all of the sadnesshopefully will lift from them.
And then they're almostyanked right back into the
Yeah.
You know, I it's, you know, it's funny,like, over the years,
when I first found out about thisnever really affected me.
It's like I'mlooking at someone else's life.
(03:16):
I'm more of a detective.
Just piecing everything together,trying to make a timeline
and make it, you know,find out how it actually fits together.
But now I'm thinking more in terms
of feelings of the people involved.
And for door in Chester to all of a suddenget that phone call
after all this time of thinking, you know,
we hope that we get our child back,but we're not really sure.
(03:38):
And then, you know,it's like anything else in life,
if you start thinking about it,you can start adjusting towards it
and making you feellike, okay, this is normal.
And then you get a phone call like that,
and then your whole worldgets thrown into just a craziness again
and you start thinking,oh my God, what if this is our child?
And now we have to worry about this?
(03:58):
We have to go to new Jersey.We have to eat.
How how are we even going to realizeif it's our child we saw our baby for?
Maybe, all in all, maybe an hour
over two years ago.
Yeah. Kids aren't really recognizable.
From their baby picture to their
Every six months,it seems like there's a huge change.
(04:19):
Yeah.
New Jersey, of all places.
Right?
You want to set the tone of what'shappening in the East Coast at that?
That time?
Well, if we're looking at, you know, two years or so past
Paul's birthday,you know, we're looking at 1965,
the country still in flux are stillall sorts of social issues going
on, adjusting to all of thethe new rules, the new freedoms.
(04:44):
Countriesgo through a lot of growing pains.
And it was such ajust such a different time from what I've
Yeah.
know, it seemed like a much more innocent
time for everyone in the country.
People, just didn'tthink about safety like they do now.
It was the likethe world was a safer place, it seemed.
But I think when you lookbelow the surface, you realize now it was
(05:08):
So let's go back to that safety issue.
So the circumstances of how Paul
me was abandoned are pretty crazy, right?
It was July 2nd, 1965,in Newark, new Jersey,
on the streets of Cedar and Broad Street,
which, ironically, is now, a Nike store.
(05:30):
I had the pleasure of going there.
I was actually there with Barbara Walters.
We were shooting a 2020 episode,
back when I was abandoned, there it was.
The area was not known as Ladies Mile.
This is like one of the hottestshopping centers outside of Manhattan.
This place was so trendy
that they even had a subway platformgoing right into the store.
(05:53):
So people from all the surrounding areascould just jump on a train,
go to McCrory's,because that's where I was abandoned.
Outside of McCrory's variety store.
So whoever leftme there, they actually left me there.
I think it was three in the afternoonin a brand new
stroller, in a brand new blue suit,
and I was sporting a nice fresh black eye,
(06:14):
which is always, always nice when you seean abandoned child with a black guy.
I had a black guy.
Yeah, it was Jersey getting.
That was a bad joke.
That was a bad joke.
Yeah, I take that back. I love Jersey.
I'll fix that in post.
And I think I had a cold, so I had a badcold and I was just left outside.
So we're talking about safety issueslike today.
(06:35):
You would never leave your child aloneanywhere for a few minutes.
No way.
I mean, no one would leave their kid
outside of a storewhile they go inside to even shop for 60s.
Let alone.
You said this was July as well.
So you're. I mean, it's humid, it's hot,
Well, not only that, it's a few daysbefore the holiday, right?
July 2nd.
(06:56):
July 4th is a.
It's a big deal, right?
So it was.
that they were hopingthat you would be found.
It sounds like it's a busy place.
Like there's a lot of peoplecoming and going
that someone would notice this Absolutely.
And that's the.
I think that was the whole M.O.for this whole thing.
They they needed to get rid of the baby,but they wanted to make sure
(07:19):
the baby was okay.
I mean, a brand new stroller.
Pretty expensive.
No, no, a brand.
get rid of this baby.
But also, I Yeah, yeah.
New stroller, new suit.
Right. Fresh black eye. Right.
These are important thingswhen you're going to abandon a
child outside of McCrory's.
(07:41):
And, Yeah.
So I was there for about about two hoursbefore someone dropped a dime and called
the cops and said, there's a there'sabandoned baby out here in a stroller.
So the cops came.
They picked me up.
They took me to the police station,
and then they realizedthat I had a black eye and a cold.
So they took me to Newark Hospital.
(08:02):
And that'swhen the story really takes off, right?
You would think an abandoned childoutside of a fancy store
like that, someone would claim the babyimmediately, right?
Oh my gosh, I was shoppingand I forgot about my child outside.
So it was Detective Farrell
out of the Newark police.
He started running ads.
(08:23):
You know,anyone want to claim this missing child
that we found outside McCrory's on Newarkin, Broad Street in Cedar Street,
and he thought it'd be a slam dunk QVC.
I think he even said by later tonight,we're going to have this baby back
at home.
That just makes logical sensethat someone should be panicking.
That they.
You know, when you.
(08:44):
When the audience listens to that storyand hears.
You know, I forgot my baby was outside onthe sidewalk.
Will people forgettheir kids are in their car these days?
Like that is a thing.
And so it's certainly possiblesomeone could have parked you there
and then walked away and then went,oh God, I
I mean, it's I hate to use this analogy,but I keep thinking of home alone
(09:06):
when all the other parents are on the plane
and they're like,oh, we're so excited to go on our trip.
We could. We got everything right.
Where's Kevin? Yeah. So where's
yeah.
it doesn't seem like a far leap, really,for the detective Farrell to think.
Yeah.
Put a picture out there.
And Right. Yeah.
(09:26):
I mean, who wouldn't want to claim.
But you know, the baby in a brand newstroller with the blue suit?
Yeah.
Oh, thank you much to kind.
He's that.
I feel the same way.
Right?
Matter of fact, if I went there right now
and sat in a stroller,I bet somebody would claim me.
But I don't know, because
when I was there with Barbara Walters,she wanted to walk around.
(09:47):
And the producers are like,you can't walk around this area
because there's people doing heroinright there.
So it was a much different areathan it was back then.
You know, back then it was LadiesMile, all that,
all the all the big timeshoppers around the area.
And I.
that was, I mean, people were comingfrom all over the country to shop there.
That was not just for the locals.
They, you know, just likenow they go to Manhattan to shop.
(10:09):
Yeah. And
they said Fridays, Saturdays and Sundayswere the busiest time in that area.
Just thousands and thousands of people.
so that's, so that's set off this,this police
campaign to try to find, you know, after,after I was in the hospital for,
I think about a week because I had a coldthey couldn't shake
(10:29):
and then they decided, well,no one's claiming this, this child.
So we need to put them into foster care.
So that's when they reached outto the best foster house
in that area in Watchung, new Jersey,
that was run by Fred and Claire Eckertand their daughter Janet.
So they had to stay at most.
They had about ten children at anygiven time.
(10:52):
That's a lot of children to be fostering.
That a lot of children in any It is. Yeah.
And they were super nice people.
You know,
I over the over the time, over the years,I've got to actually meet Janet.
Janet actually reached out to mewhen I started this whole journey
and said, you were our Scott.
So I was placed
(11:14):
with them, and I was there so long
that they actually named me,and they baptized me.
Scott McKinley.
They gave me a birthday of April 15th,which is tax day. Now.
I wonder if it was back then. Yeah, yeah.
Tax day. It's crazy.
that's sort of where you gotthe tag as a foundling.
(11:37):
You had no name,no information, you know, foundling
infant, abandoned by its parentsto be cared for by others.
And that's
I was a foundling.
gave you a name.
They gave you a birthday.
They helped give you an identity.
yeah. So. So I was basically a foundling.
I was 22 pounds 30in,
(11:58):
and the police estimatedI was about 14 months old
and. for a 14 month old,
that's on the small side for sure.
As far as physical development,any any information on how you were?
Were you talking? Were you saying words?
You know, as far as your your
(12:19):
Yeah. So I didn't get into it.
I know nothing about thatuntil later down the road.
After spendingalmost a year with the efforts.
I'm sure you know, there was a lotto learn in the house, school,
about those kids.
You know, you had to Yeah.
So from what they said in the beginning,whenever their son in law
came around, I would cower and kind of,like, hide in the corner.
(12:40):
Like, I was really afraid.
So something must have happenedwith a guy, maybe a younger guy, you know?
I mean, I had a black eye,and I'm sure I didn't do it to myself.
Yeah, yeah.
So I'm sure that I had some kindof a, you know, abuse there
that they couldn't explain.
But then eventually they saw that I cameout of my shell and I was super friendly.
(13:02):
I became kind of like a leaderwith the other kids.
I was make sure that they were okay.
I had a plastic guitar.
There's actually a picture on the wallon my murder board here behind me.
I mean, I was actually I was playing
drums and I had a little guitarthat I carry with me everywhere.
So I love music
is I it's funny,like reading the letters from Claire.
(13:22):
She said that like anything from Mantovanito Mozart, to rock n roll,
classic rock, you know, which wasn'tclassic rock then it was rock.
It was just rock.
Yeah.
It does.
And it's got a beautiful Rickenbackerright right behind me here, which
(13:43):
my favorite bass.
I've got a lot of bases,but that's my favorite.
Yeah. So once you replace with the Eckert.
So I was with them almost a year
because no one, no one was claiming me.
So the search was still ongoing.
The police were still advertising.
You still
(14:03):
So what happened
was I became part of the Eckert family.
Like, I really bonded with Fred.
Like, I would wait for himat the end of the driveway
when he came home from work,and I carry his lunchbox in, and, I mean,
I they wanted to adopt me like they reallywanted me to be part of the family.
But then the FBI reached out to themand said,
we think this is a kidnapchild from Chicago.
(14:27):
And it all started when Detective
Farrell remembered the Francis kidnaping
and he saw pictures.
And he he reached outto Otto from the Chicago PD
and asked for the file.
And he had this idea that I was
the actual kidnaped child from Chicago,and that was still an ongoing case.
(14:48):
That was a hot case, right?
I mean, they they really wanted to solvethat because it was it was bad.
So the Chicago PD, the FBI
and the new Newark police,they all got together and started talking.
And they thought,I think that this is the France child.
So they started testing me doingthey took blood tests.
(15:09):
They took a mold of my ear
because the picture of Paul,which is in the newspaper behind me,
that's the only picturewe ever had of him.
But his ear was prominent,so they felt confident enough
that they could see the bumpsand the ridges,
and that could be used as a form of ID.
Yeah, I've read about that.
You know, there was this ideathat, like, fingerprints, ears were unique
(15:33):
to everybody. And, of course,now we know that's not true.
But at the time, with the technologythey had.
Yeah.
And if,the baby wasn't printed, fingerprinted,
Could you imaginewatching an episode of CSI
and they solve this case shaped upbased on someone's ear?
You never watch that show again.
Yeah, this is horrible.
Oh, come on, I'm not goingnot going to believe that.
(15:56):
Yeah, but they believe it, you know,so they, Yeah.
So they decidedthat I was the forensic child.
So then they had to test me.
They started doing psych testsand things for, for quite a while.
And then they finally reached out.
I think after ten months,they reached out to the Franz Acts
and said,we think we have your kidnaped child.
(16:16):
Do you want to drive out to to new Jersey?
And that's my parents got the phone call.
So it's like, once again, sliding doors.
All these different things came together.
It's like the perfect storm of craziness,you know?
So what do you do?
Right.
You go, I this is a crank calland I'm not gonna listen to it.
Sure. Yeah.
(16:36):
I'm sure they'd gotten crank callsthrough this whole process.
You know, we talked about the ransom call.
Like, how do they distinguishwhat's real and what isn't? It?
At some point in time, you just believe
Yeah, unless.
Unless you're someone like mewho believes that.
Leave no stone unturned.
Check out every lead,every every tip that you get.
Because you never know that one.
(16:57):
That you'vethat you thought you just glance over.
Might be the one that could help you.
So myparents did what any, any parent would do.
They got in the carand they drove to new Jersey.
And the hopes of itbeing there long lost kidnaped
child.
Oh man.
(17:20):
If they even talked at all,
I mean, I yeah, I would love to.
It's just retraumatizing themin a lot of ways.
After it seemed like they were so Yeah.
Over two years.
Right.
Yeah.
And I'm sure door kept reliving thatkidnaping when she, when she handed
Paul over.
(17:41):
You know,you're carrying all that inside you.
So when they finally get to new Jersey,
Janet had told meJanet was the daughter of the agates.
She was in high school when
when I was put into,you know, their their foster care.
She said that they werethey weren't allowed to see the Fronczaks.
They were put in a room next doorto where the Fronczaks were.
(18:04):
And then they brought in Scott.
And as soon as they brought Scott in,
I guess they looked at meand I looked at them
and my mom just screamed out,oh my God, that's my baby.
That's Paul.
And Janet heard that and they were crushedbecause even though they wanted,
they wanted me to be back with my
(18:24):
my original family and,you know, have that great family life.
They they wanted to keep me as well.
So it was buried. It's bittersweet.
I'm sure for them, that was hard.
That that. Yeah.
They knew they were going to loseyou right in that moment.
That you were not Yeah.
and you're going to move onto another their new life again.
(18:45):
I think it's interesting, when.
I read
about your experience with the exitsand how they.
You know, describedyou as a as a little boy
and how gentle and tenderyou were with the other children
at the home and how you were almosta caregiver to them.
And, when they would cry,you would stroke their hair and
(19:06):
and ask them, don't cry, don't cry.
And then on the flip side of that,you also talked to yourself
when you would cry and say,don't cry, don't cry.
And it makes you wonder where that Yeah.
Because if you, you know,you start adding up clues.
Like I was afraid of younger men.
And then I would tell myself not to cry.
(19:28):
What happenedwhen I cried? Did I get a black eye?
Yeah.
someone gave you those words?
Someone gave you that phrase.
They said it to you more than once,and you remembered it,
and you knew how to apply itto the situation.
So it was something that you hadYeah. It's.
It's really sad.
(19:48):
Yeah, but you know how,there's a lot of hope there, though,
because you hear was a childwith a heart, despite
maybe all of the terrible thingsthat we don't know, it happened.
You still were a caring humanbeing to your fellow foster kids. And.
And you loved the echo.
Clearly, you looked upon them as parents.
You know, you still had that ability toto open up to Yet
(20:13):
when you when you put that with the factthat I think I knew, like, ten words,
it's, it didn't seem
like I knew a whole lotbecause the letters that.
So the e-cards actually senta lot of letters to my parents.
They hit it in the suitcase.
Oh, And I didn't know about thisuntil just a few years ago.
My mom actually had a scrapbookfull of pictures that the Eckerd sent.
(20:36):
They weren't in the picturesbecause by law, they couldn't be.
But it was just a little glimpse of how
I was at that stage in my life.
Yeah.
I mean, it's almost likethey have to tell your parents about you
because your parentsdon't know you at all.
What are your likes?
What are your dislikes? Where are you at developmentally?
You know,where are we at in potty training?
(20:56):
Where are we at? And and speaking.
They don't even know their own child.
And so you're the actress had a lot offoresight, it seems like, to be able to
Super nice people.
And in the letters,
I think I put them on the websiteso you could actually read them.
It's, They covered a lot of ground,you know, like my menu.
What I ate, my daily routine,my vocabulary, you know, things like that.
(21:20):
My my behavior.
What? I like doing things like that.
Because, like you said,if my my daughter was born,
if I didn't see her for two years,I would have no idea how that child is,
because in two yearsshe was doing so much.
Yeah. Absolutely.
And so it's like a crash coursein getting to know your own Yeah.
(21:41):
I can't even imagine.
I mean, yeah, because like, like you said,you know, being an R.N., you've
you've seen all these things.You understand behavior.
So much can happen in six months,let alone over two years.
and, of course,sent out for your parents, too.
Wondering what you've been throughin the time he's been away from us,
that unknown.
That's a punch to the gut.
(22:02):
Yeah.
I can't even imagine, you know, I mean,talk about taking a leap of faith, right?
Yeah.
That's that's my son.
I haven't seen him for over two years.
I really have no idea, but.
So I talked to my mom about that in depthover the, over the last couple of years
because we didn't talk about it for,I don't know, 40 years,
50 years.
And I finally brought it up and we startedshe started opening up.
(22:25):
You know, it's funny, my,my dad, Chester, passed away in 2017,
and it seems like after he passed away,my mom started becoming more forthcoming
with all these thingsthat they went through.
And she actually told me how she felt.
They were led into that room,and she said the world was watching
because this kidnaping wasit was being watched by everybody.
I, I wasI read about, like, all the testing
(22:47):
that they'd put you through,along with thousands of other
toddler 10,000. That's a
Yeah.
It's a lot of years.
All over the country.
Yeah.
(23:08):
Yeah.
so the FBI agent, Marlin Johnson,
who ended up being a friend of my parentsfor a long time.
He really took chargeof this investigation.
They tested 10,000 boys
to see if one of themcould have been the kidnaped child
they tested using blood, bones,skin, hair in the molds of the ear
(23:28):
because everything was based
on the shape of Paul's earfrom that one hospital photograph.
So, Tracey, as an RNhow do you feel about those kind of tests?
we live in the time that we do.
Because nowwe just do a little swab in the cheek
and we can have all the informationwe need.
Yeah.
Thinking about toddler boys
being poked and prodded and,you know, taking a bone specimen.
(23:48):
Ouch. That's horrible.
And putting these little kids
through all of that just to seeif they could come up with the right baby,
a traumatic for a toddlerand their parent, you know,
and who's taking care of them?
You know, listening to these babies cry,getting their blood drawn and,
tearing me apart.
It's very X-Files for sure.
(24:09):
Yeah. Geez.
All right.
and the, you know, people were thinkingat the time, this is cutting edge.
This isthis is the information that we need
that's going to tell uswhat we need to know.
Yeah. Pretty crazy.
So after the Fronczaks said, that'sthat's our child.
All of a sudden, they have a family now,
(24:29):
so they have to get in the car with me
and drive cross-country back to Chicago.
I wonder what that car ride was like.
You know, the car ride going out.
We watched the car ride, like going back.
They've literally wentfrom having no children
to having a toddler Yeah,
yeah.
Do they have a room ready for you?
(24:50):
Do they have furniture? Do they?
Are they even ready for this?
I know my mom was extremely happy.
I'm sure my dad was happy
because, you know, over two years of pain
and anguish and just,you know, not not moving forward.
And all of a sudden,
you have to have your child back.
(25:12):
So, I mean, it's a happy ending.
I mean, who could ask for more, right?
Yeah, definitely a miracle.
So I get back to Chicagoand they have home movies on me.
The first thing they didwas have me baptized again.
I was already baptized as Scott.
So now I'm back.
(25:33):
I oh, I'm sad.
Yeah, I do, I do.
Yeah.
So I, I was baptized Paul Joseph Fronczak
and started living that new life.
And I had these really cool home movies
of at my aunt and uncle's housejust running around,
and everyone's watching mebecause I was, you know, the celebrity.
(25:54):
I was the kid that was gone for twoyears. Over two years. Right?
And I, you know,
I look at those those home moviesand it's like, I'm not looking at myself.
I'm looking at a movie.
You know, another actorplaying this child.
And it's those,those thoughts that I think
have kept me going all this time
(26:15):
because
the whole thing is so surrealthat you don't really think about it.
Like when you read the book, you're like,okay, that's that's really a crazy story.
It's a good story.
I like it, but when it's you, it'sjust it's a completely different feeling.
It's like you're looking downat something else from from above, right?
(26:36):
Yeah.
Sort of an out of bodykind of thing. That.
That's not.
That's not my life.
That's not me.
I'm watching someone else's home movies.
Watching someone else'sChristmas morning footage.
Riding a bike.
Oh, look at that kid.Learning to ride a trike.
Playing that little guitar.
What a cool kid. Wait, that's Yeah,
yeah.
So I, I took over the role as Pauland everything was cool for a while.
(27:01):
You know, I thought,okay, this is this is my life.
Well, like,what are some of your first memories with
That's where it gets a little fuzzy.
Like, I don't have any memoriestill I was about 5 or 6 years old,
and I went toan elementary school called Oakview,
and my mom made me wear this really crazycolored,
(27:22):
weird design jacket.
And I hated that jacket.
I'm like,I'm going to get beat up in this jacket.
Yeah.
But it was horrible.
But, you know, you thinkabout all the things I could remember.
I remember that.
And I remember Christmas mornings.
David, wake me up really early.
(27:43):
Dave was my younger brother
because after they brought me home,they had just had Dave.
So my mom and dad wentfrom having no children
to having two childrenand then moving into a new house.
So that was a lot for my mom.
She wasshe was overwhelmed, to put it lightly.
Oh, I'm sure that's one.
Having one new infant is a huge lifechange, as I mean, I'm.
(28:07):
You can attest to it as well.
You go from sleeping
when you want, eating when you want,picking up and going when you want to.
I'm not sleeping at all now.
Ever again.
You know, am I doing this right?
Am I being a good parent?
All those anxiety things and hang upwe all have about being parents and times
Times two.
(28:28):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's it's crazy.
But I rememberDave waking me up on Christmas mornings.
And how goes back to Christmas for me.
You know, maybe that's whyI love the Polar Express so much.
this is a it's a big holiday for you.
A lot of things, sticking to Yeah, it'sall Christmas, Christmas and crawl spaces.
That could be,
(28:50):
my next book.
Yeah.
Haha.
I like that.
Yeah, it's good to have goals.
Yeah.
But yeah, I remember growing up with themand they wasn't really a
they wereand Chester were amazing parents.
They really took care of us,but they weren't like real loving parents.
(29:12):
I'm yeah,
you know, a lot of hugging and,you know, kisses and things like that. And
I remember my mom was always cleaning.
She was just always cleaning something.
And once she cleaned part of the houseand Dave and I weren't allowed to play
in that area of the house,it was like a like a museum piece,
you know, like, I, I oftenthink of them like the Rockwell paintings,
(29:34):
like you see on the plates and things.
But when she cleanedan area that was at a Rockwell area,
that was a museumarea, we'd go play in the other areas.
But she was constantly cleaning.
Anyway, it's just I certainchildhood memories that I have.
Yeah.
I mean, and just as an observationfrom the psychological point of view,
(29:57):
you know, people that are obsessivelyclean, and, and they spend a lot of time
cleaning, it's,it can be manifesting a control issue.
I need total control out of every,you know, over everything that's happening
in my life, in my home, in the,you know, vacuuming, obsessively dusting.
It's it's trying to bring order to chaos.
(30:18):
And I'm sure she's feeling a lot of chaos.
Her mind
had to be just spinning all the time,trying to figure out how she was going to
Well.
Yeah.
She couldn'tcontrol someone kidnaping her child,
but she could definitely controlthe house being spotless.
Yeah, and I remember
(30:38):
having, like, the craziest early curfews.
Like, all my friends would stay out later,and I always had to be home early,
or my parents had to always be ableto see where I was.
I mean, the kidnapingwas a big part of their lives,
and even though they didn't talk about it,it came out in actions.
And I just remember
just having really early curfews,not being able to do a lot of things.
(31:01):
They'd never, never tell strangersyour name because the name would
reopen the story again,because for a long time after I was back,
even up to five years old, the mediawas still hounding them every birthday.
Because I have an article of themcelebrating my fifth birthday.
And it was.
I was in the newspapers,so they still had all that stigma
of the media still just hounding them,which is.
(31:23):
it sounds like they just wantednothing more than to just hide.
They just wanted Yeah.
wanted to get on with their livesand didn't
they don't seem like,you know, public people.
They seem very private,and they just didn't Yeah.
Just be a normal family, right?
How about. How about your brother.
How about Dave. Yeah. So they've
(31:45):
they've always
had this real easiness with my parents.
Like, he could just,
like they were always in sync.
And I was that one cogthat just didn't fit in.
That always kind of,you know, stop the motor.
How so how how were you
Well, I look different.
Like Dave looked exactly like my dad,
(32:07):
and I didn't, as a matter of fact,when they when they first found me
and they said that was Paul,when one report said
that I look like Dorafrom the front and Chester from the side,
which is kind of a different way
to make someone they don't fita box right?
I mean, you know,we've we've all seen families
where, you know,we see the family photo and go, oh, okay.
(32:29):
These siblings look sort of alike.
And there's one over herethat, you know, maybe doesn't necessarily
look as much as everyone else.
And then that.
We've all seen those family photoswhere some What's even, you know,
my my daughter had these school functionslike these dance competitions and things.
And whenever we go and I always seeher friends with their parents, I'm like,
(32:50):
oh, my God, you can totally tellthey are exactly their parents child.
I mean, did you like, you didn'tyou feel sorry for me?
No. I'm kidding.
Yeah, yeah.
Youryour fate has been sealed, my friend.
Yeah, yeah,
but I look back at my my old family moviesand family pictures, I'm like, oh,
that's, it's different, you know?
(33:12):
And so. Yeah.Then you feel different, right?
Because you don't sort offit into that same,
But once again, it's just,you know, it was just my feelings
because I was a normal ten yearold living with my family at.
And when you think about Dave,he was with your parents from the minute
he was born.
So they raised him.
You know, it'sthat whole nature nurture thing.
He was with them as an infantthrough, you know, as growing, growing up.
(33:35):
He knew them through his entire life.
And so they were ableto have that impact on him.
They were able to, help himto enjoy the things that they enjoyed.
That's what he grew up knowingand with not knowing what you had
experienced for your first two yearsthere, really.
You know, like I said,they're trying to get to know
you, trying to figure out who you are.
They've had no impact on youin the first two years,
(33:56):
so you're going to be different from them.
Your experience It isn't it.
I think I read somewhere
that the first 3 or 4 years of your lifepretty much set the tone
for the rest of your life.
Yeah.
what your influences are,you know, nature does play a part,
but nurture is also very strong.
And and that's a huge impacton who we become.
(34:18):
Who raises that? Who is our teacher?
Even from the language that you speak to,the culture that you live
in, to your mannerisms, peoplepick up their parents mannerisms
from being with them.
So it doesn't surprise methat you felt like an outsider.
You weren't exposed to themto be able to absorb who
they were as people,what the lifestyle was like.
(34:39):
And we just don't know what your Yeah.
And small things like.
It was a three bedroom house.
They had.My parents had the master bedroom.
Then they had a bigger bedroom.
Then they had a tiny little guest room.
And even though I was the older brother,
I got put in a tiny little guest roomwith a little tiny twin bed
(35:01):
and Dave, the younger brother,got the big room with the big,
you know, full size bed in thereand the big room with all the space.
And I always thoughtthat was kind of weird because, you know,
I had friends that had younger brothers,and they always had the smaller rooms
where the older children had,you know, first dibs on the bedroom.
Sure. Yeah.
I mean, that'sI did that with my kids, you know that?
(35:23):
Yeah.
The older one he got, the bigger spacehe got.
He's older.
Even on The Brady Bunch,that's what they did, right?
Yeah.
So, I mean, to me, I took that as like,well, that's got to mean something.
Sure.
I mean, and at that point in time,you're probably, you know,
you're too young to be aware of iton that sort of higher level of thinking.
But it certainly made you think about.
(35:45):
I'm getting a raw deal. Yeah.
Yeah.
Like, I mean, like I said, Davealways had this easiness with them,
and I never really felt that comfortable,you know?
And we never really talked about things.
It wasn't really a, you know, touchyfeely expression or emotion.
Like my daughterthankfully tells me everything.
And I'm so grateful for that.
I didn't tell my parents yet.
I mean, I was very secretive
(36:06):
And, like, as you were growing up, you.
Did you have a job? Were youwere you working?
Were you hobbies? Yeah.
I was like,what were you like as a teenager?
When I was in grammar school,I started playing guitar for a little bit
and my mom said, okay, well,you want to try that?
We'll get you some lessons.
I did it for a while.I just didn't like it, you know?
And then I played clarinet,which was going to go nowhere.
(36:29):
Nobody.
I'm like,I can't play Rush on the clarinet.
Right. But I
and I constantly had strep
throat because I never cleanedthe reeds out properly.
The mouthpiece, my mom was like,enough of that.
We can't we can't keep calling the doctorfor strep throat.
So I, eventuallyI stopped playing clarinet.
I didn't like guitar.
(36:50):
So when I mentioned bass,they said, you're on your own band.
We tried two things.
We're not doing nothing. Right.
You want this? You do it by yourself.
So I had saved money for my job,and I bought a cheap
Fender copy bass called the Hondo.
It weighed about 75 pounds.
It was. It was horrible.
The action was, if you knowwhat action is, it was super high.
(37:12):
But I learned how to play bass.
I taught myself how to play.
And out of out of high school.
There were only two bass playersthat were good.
Me and this guy named Ray.
And Ray was really good,and he taught me a couple of things,
But I reallyI really learned how to play bass and that
that was a sliding door moment for mebecause once again,
learning, just learning
how to play bass took me in a directionthat changed my life completely.
(37:35):
Shortly down the road.
And so as you'removing through this high school phase
and getting readyto figure out what your next step is
All right.
So I'm getting readyto graduate high school.
I still haven'tforgot about the kidnaping.
(37:56):
I still thought about the articlesI found about me being the kidnaped child.
You know, I had, you know, like I said,
I just felt likeI just didn't didn't belong.
So I had a chance.
I was supposed to go to collegefor business.
That's what everyone did afterhigh school.
Because, you know,
(38:18):
I was I signed up,I was going to start college, but then
right before high school ended,I was picking up my girlfriend
from a restaurant where she worked at,and I heard these two guys talking about,
all we need is a bass playerand we're ready to roll.
I was like,I leaned over, I said, I'm a bass player.
And the guys looked at me like,yeah, can you play rush?
(38:39):
And I said, oh, I can play rush.
Okay, all right, tough guy.
We're going to rehearse tomorrow.
Here's the address.Show up and let's see what you got.
The new rush albums had just come outand the top single was New World, man.
So I learned it that night,
showed up the next day, played it,and they said that was pretty good.
Can you move to Arizona?
(39:00):
I said, absolutely, I can move to Arizona.
Oh no.
So that was the easy part.
Then had to go and tell my parents, I'mnot going to college.
I'm going to be in a rock and roll bandway across the world in Arizona.
Oh, that was horrible.
Yeah.
That was,that was a different conversation
(39:21):
that still lives on in Symphony.
Yeah, it was going crazy.
And here's the funny part.
Right when I left forArizona, I never looked back.
(39:41):
No, no, I was excited, you know,I was free.
I could do what I want.
I get to play music.
Yeah.
So you moved to Arizona.
You had a good run with the band.
It sounds like.
You know, it's,it lasted about seven years,
(40:03):
and it was great because I was inI grew up in a household
that never even listened to music,but I was drawn to it for some reason.
Like I said, I taught myselfhow to play bass, and that's the one
constant in my entire lifethat still play bass today.
But growing up in a family without music,you wonder, how does someone
just have that musicality?
So I lasted about seven years in the band,and then after the band
(40:26):
broke up, I just became a wanderer.
I just drifted in a lot of jobs.
I went to Chicago for a while.
I joined the Armybriefly, got out, got married,
move.
I moved to move to Las Vegas.
And that's when, you know,things really got interesting, you know?
You know, it's funny,even though the newspaper clippings
(40:48):
were in the crawlspace,I still kept them with me.
And I still have them to this day.
So I think it was always in the back of mymind, you know, am I just a regular kid?
You know, but that's somethingthat everyone thinks about.
So, I mean, so all of a suddenI find myself in Las Vegas.
I probably had 100 jobs.
I movedat least probably 30 times in my life.
(41:08):
I just just wandered. I don't know why.
I just
it's like I was always searching forsomething, but I didn't know what it was.
I know a lot of
people are like that,but I couldn't control it.
You know, like my first marriage,I just walked away, you know?
And then I.
It wasn't hard for you
Know it was.
(41:29):
No, it was so amicable. And it.
I think we pay like, 50 bucks.
Got divorced.
You know, I have a good day.
Yeah,
yeah, yeah.
I mean, it just just movedon, and I dated quite a bit.
And then I was living,
I was, I moved to Californiabecause I was doing a lot of acting stuff.
And I met this girl named Michelle,and she happened to live in Las Vegas.
(41:53):
I met her at a party in San Diego,
and I got booked as GeorgeClooney stand in for Ocean's 11,
which was shooting in Vegas.
And I had I had lived in Vegas.
Right. So I, I loved Vegas.
I just moved to California for a while
because I got tired of driving backand forth for auditions.
So when Michelle said that she was livingin Vegas, I was like, this is fantastic.
(42:15):
So I stayed with herwhile we were shooting the film.
And then when it was over, I was like,I think I'm just going to stay back here
in Vegas. And we ended up getting married.
It was fantastic.
And I thought, this is it.
I can finally settle down.
You know, I'mgoing to stop wandering around.
I got a job working for a collegeas a presenter.
(42:37):
It was still an acting gig,but it was steady, with benefits,
you know, regular hours. Got to.
Got to travel.
I got to go all over thecountry, which was fantastic.
And then
one day, Michelle was like, hey,why don't we have a child?
I was like, that's that's a great idea.
I never thought about that.
You know, I'm in my I'm in my 40s by now.
(42:57):
At this point,I thought I'd never have children.
And all of a sudden she's like, well,you know, let's, let's let's try.
Boom.All of a sudden she's pregnant, right?
I was like, this is this is cool.
I really wanted to have a girl.
I was I was a boy.
And I know how boys are growing up.
And I was like,you know, let's have a girl.
It'd be much, much better journey for me.
(43:18):
So, of course, you know,if you manifest it, you make it true.
We had the ultrasound and sure enough,she said, you're having a girl.
And Michelle will tell you.
I ran around that room screaming.
I was so excited, like, yeah, I'mgoing to be a dad to a daughter, you know?
And everything was cool.
Everything was great. I was so excited.
And then we went into the doctor's office,you know, routine, you know,
(43:41):
ultrasound checks, stuff like that.
And then they asked me a questionthat I've heard my whole life.
What's your medical history?
Which everyone is asked.
And I asked
right.
So I started spouting off the thingI was always told, you know,
I'm an mom and dad, you know, whateverwhat I, what I thought was my history.
(44:02):
And then those newspaper clippingscame back in my mind
and I started thinking, what if by chance,
I'm really not that kidnapedchild, Paul from from Chicago.
I think I should find out because
I think I'm doing a disserviceto my my new daughter.
Am I being genuine?
What if I have a medical condition?
(44:23):
What if I'm really not this guy?
There's got to be a way I could find out.
So one day I was in the CVSand I'm walking
down the aisle, and it's like a brightspot, like, just shown.
And this one product,it was an identity gene paternity kit.
It was like the universe was pushing metowards that item.
(44:44):
So I picked it up and I, I found myselfwalking towards the counter with it.
I set it down.
So, tracey, what do you think?
Is that a good place to leave?
Slider moment.
So if you're.
Yeah.
(45:05):
Yeah.
So if you want to find outwhat happens next,
make sure you tune infor the next episode.
We're only getting started.
tracey, always a pleasure.
I'll see you next week.
All right.
Thanks.
Bye bye.
The project files is createdand hosted by Paul
Jack Fronczak, co-hosted by MeTracey Hastings.
(45:29):
edited by Gavin Boughner.
Lead genetic genealogist Emily Ripper.
Lead historical researcherColleen Newhart.
Social media manager Amy Morris.
original theme music written and producedby Paul Jack Grant and Rick Holland.
Thank you for joining us on the journey.
And please remember to subscribe.
And. all right.
Welcome back to The Fronczak Files.
(00:24):
Last episode we started this journey.
It's a journeythat's full of twists and turns and
if you missed it, don't start this one.
Go back and listen to the first one.
Kind of take that ride.
You have to really take itfrom the beginning.
So, Tracey,what are we going to talk about?
This episode in The Abandonment?
(00:47):
We left off at the phone call.
If I remember correctly,we sort of left our listeners hanging.
All right,so in this episode, the abandonment,
the Fronczaks had their childkidnaped from Michael Reese
Hospital back in 1964.
This is almost two years later,
(01:07):
right? Two years came and went.
No word on their missing baby.
And Dora and Chester decided.You know what?
We've got to start living our lives.We've got to move forward.
So Dora became pregnant,
and they thought, you know what?
We're going to keep keep hopingthat our child comes back.
But we can't just stop living.
(01:29):
And all of a sudden,they got a phone call.
So you said.
You said this was Almost two years later.
Yeah. had.
They had, like Paul'sbirthday came and went.
Holidays came and went.
Did your parents feel likethere was still hope?
Even though all of these milestones
(01:49):
That's a that's a great question.
I want to say my mom, Dora, never gave uphope.
Chester, I you know,I think he was more of a realist.
You know, he's like, it's been it'sbeen over two years.
I think we need to start moving forward.
You know, they had just bought a house.
She was pregnant with Dave,
(02:10):
and I
think he was ready for that next chapter.
And of course,just like everything else in life,
just when you think it's calm,all of a sudden this whole world opens up.
They get a phone call.
We think we found your child.
So that's, It's something,you know, people say that this is.
This could be a lifetime movieor something, but it's.
But but no one would believe it. Right.
(02:33):
Yeah.
I mean, sometimesyou probably have trouble believing it.
That I'm not even sure I do at this point.
But but I have I have all this hard proofsaying that it is true, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I'm sticking. Sticking to it? Yeah.
you know, thinking about your parentsagain, getting that phone call.
(02:54):
Out of the blue,thinking their life was on track.
They've got these plans, this new baby
coming and all of the sadnesshopefully will lift from them.
And then they're almostyanked right back into the
Yeah.
You know, I it's, you know, it's funny,like, over the years,
when I first found out about thisnever really affected me.
It's like I'mlooking at someone else's life.
(03:16):
I'm more of a detective.
Just piecing everything together,trying to make a timeline
and make it, you know,find out how it actually fits together.
But now I'm thinking more in terms
of feelings of the people involved.
And for door in Chester to all of a suddenget that phone call
after all this time of thinking, you know,
we hope that we get our child back,but we're not really sure.
(03:38):
And then, you know,it's like anything else in life,
if you start thinking about it,you can start adjusting towards it
and making you feellike, okay, this is normal.
And then you get a phone call like that,
and then your whole worldgets thrown into just a craziness again
and you start thinking,oh my God, what if this is our child?
And now we have to worry about this?
(03:58):
We have to go to new Jersey.We have to eat.
How how are we even going to realizeif it's our child we saw our baby for?
Maybe, all in all, maybe an hour
over two years ago.
Yeah. Kids aren't really recognizable.
From their baby picture to their
Every six months,it seems like there's a huge change.
(04:19):
Yeah.
New Jersey, of all places.
Right?
You want to set the tone of what'shappening in the East Coast at that?
That time?
Well, if we're looking at, you know, two years or so past
Paul's birthday,you know, we're looking at 1965,
the country still in flux are stillall sorts of social issues going
on, adjusting to all of thethe new rules, the new freedoms.
(04:44):
Countriesgo through a lot of growing pains.
And it was such ajust such a different time from what I've
Yeah.
know, it seemed like a much more innocent
time for everyone in the country.
People, just didn'tthink about safety like they do now.
It was the likethe world was a safer place, it seemed.
But I think when you lookbelow the surface, you realize now it was
(05:08):
So let's go back to that safety issue.
So the circumstances of how Paul
me was abandoned are pretty crazy, right?
It was July 2nd, 1965,in Newark, new Jersey,
on the streets of Cedar and Broad Street,
which, ironically, is now, a Nike store.
(05:30):
I had the pleasure of going there.
I was actually there with Barbara Walters.
We were shooting a 2020 episode,
back when I was abandoned, there it was.
The area was not known as Ladies Mile.
This is like one of the hottestshopping centers outside of Manhattan.
This place was so trendy
that they even had a subway platformgoing right into the store.
(05:53):
So people from all the surrounding areascould just jump on a train,
go to McCrory's,because that's where I was abandoned.
Outside of McCrory's variety store.
So whoever leftme there, they actually left me there.
I think it was three in the afternoonin a brand new
stroller, in a brand new blue suit,
and I was sporting a nice fresh black eye,
(06:14):
which is always, always nice when you seean abandoned child with a black guy.
I had a black guy.
Yeah, it was Jersey getting.
That was a bad joke.
That was a bad joke.
Yeah, I take that back. I love Jersey.
I'll fix that in post.
And I think I had a cold, so I had a badcold and I was just left outside.
So we're talking about safety issueslike today.
(06:35):
You would never leave your child aloneanywhere for a few minutes.
No way.
I mean, no one would leave their kid
outside of a storewhile they go inside to even shop for 60s.
Let alone.
You said this was July as well.
So you're. I mean, it's humid, it's hot,
Well, not only that, it's a few daysbefore the holiday, right?
July 2nd.
(06:56):
July 4th is a.
It's a big deal, right?
So it was.
that they were hopingthat you would be found.
It sounds like it's a busy place.
Like there's a lot of peoplecoming and going
that someone would notice this Absolutely.
And that's the.
I think that was the whole M.O.for this whole thing.
They they needed to get rid of the baby,but they wanted to make sure
(07:19):
the baby was okay.
I mean, a brand new stroller.
Pretty expensive.
No, no, a brand.
get rid of this baby.
But also, I Yeah, yeah.
New stroller, new suit.
Right. Fresh black eye. Right.
These are important thingswhen you're going to abandon a
child outside of McCrory's.
(07:41):
And, Yeah.
So I was there for about about two hoursbefore someone dropped a dime and called
the cops and said, there's a there'sabandoned baby out here in a stroller.
So the cops came.
They picked me up.
They took me to the police station,
and then they realizedthat I had a black eye and a cold.
So they took me to Newark Hospital.
(08:02):
And that'swhen the story really takes off, right?
You would think an abandoned childoutside of a fancy store
like that, someone would claim the babyimmediately, right?
Oh my gosh, I was shoppingand I forgot about my child outside.
So it was Detective Farrell
out of the Newark police.
He started running ads.
(08:23):
You know,anyone want to claim this missing child
that we found outside McCrory's on Newarkin, Broad Street in Cedar Street,
and he thought it'd be a slam dunk QVC.
I think he even said by later tonight,we're going to have this baby back
at home.
That just makes logical sensethat someone should be panicking.
That they.
You know, when you.
(08:44):
When the audience listens to that storyand hears.
You know, I forgot my baby was outside onthe sidewalk.
Will people forgettheir kids are in their car these days?
Like that is a thing.
And so it's certainly possiblesomeone could have parked you there
and then walked away and then went,oh God, I
I mean, it's I hate to use this analogy,but I keep thinking of home alone
(09:06):
when all the other parents are on the plane
and they're like,oh, we're so excited to go on our trip.
We could. We got everything right.
Where's Kevin? Yeah. So where's
yeah.
it doesn't seem like a far leap, really,for the detective Farrell to think.
Yeah.
Put a picture out there.
And Right. Yeah.
(09:26):
I mean, who wouldn't want to claim.
But you know, the baby in a brand newstroller with the blue suit?
Yeah.
Oh, thank you much to kind.
He's that.
I feel the same way.
Right?
Matter of fact, if I went there right now
and sat in a stroller,I bet somebody would claim me.
But I don't know, because
when I was there with Barbara Walters,she wanted to walk around.
(09:47):
And the producers are like,you can't walk around this area
because there's people doing heroinright there.
So it was a much different areathan it was back then.
You know, back then it was LadiesMile, all that,
all the all the big timeshoppers around the area.
And I.
that was, I mean, people were comingfrom all over the country to shop there.
That was not just for the locals.
They, you know, just likenow they go to Manhattan to shop.
(10:09):
Yeah. And
they said Fridays, Saturdays and Sundayswere the busiest time in that area.
Just thousands and thousands of people.
so that's, so that's set off this,this police
campaign to try to find, you know, after,after I was in the hospital for,
I think about a week because I had a coldthey couldn't shake
(10:29):
and then they decided, well,no one's claiming this, this child.
So we need to put them into foster care.
So that's when they reached outto the best foster house
in that area in Watchung, new Jersey,
that was run by Fred and Claire Eckertand their daughter Janet.
So they had to stay at most.
They had about ten children at anygiven time.
(10:52):
That's a lot of children to be fostering.
That a lot of children in any It is. Yeah.
And they were super nice people.
You know,
I over the over the time, over the years,I've got to actually meet Janet.
Janet actually reached out to mewhen I started this whole journey
and said, you were our Scott.
So I was placed
(11:14):
with them, and I was there so long
that they actually named me,and they baptized me.
Scott McKinley.
They gave me a birthday of April 15th,which is tax day. Now.
I wonder if it was back then. Yeah, yeah.
Tax day. It's crazy.
that's sort of where you gotthe tag as a foundling.
(11:37):
You had no name,no information, you know, foundling
infant, abandoned by its parentsto be cared for by others.
And that's
I was a foundling.
gave you a name.
They gave you a birthday.
They helped give you an identity.
yeah. So. So I was basically a foundling.
I was 22 pounds 30in,
(11:58):
and the police estimatedI was about 14 months old
and. for a 14 month old,
that's on the small side for sure.
As far as physical development,any any information on how you were?
Were you talking? Were you saying words?
You know, as far as your your
(12:19):
Yeah. So I didn't get into it.
I know nothing about thatuntil later down the road.
After spendingalmost a year with the efforts.
I'm sure you know, there was a lotto learn in the house, school,
about those kids.
You know, you had to Yeah.
So from what they said in the beginning,whenever their son in law
came around, I would cower and kind of,like, hide in the corner.
(12:40):
Like, I was really afraid.
So something must have happenedwith a guy, maybe a younger guy, you know?
I mean, I had a black eye,and I'm sure I didn't do it to myself.
Yeah, yeah.
So I'm sure that I had some kindof a, you know, abuse there
that they couldn't explain.
But then eventually they saw that I cameout of my shell and I was super friendly.
(13:02):
I became kind of like a leaderwith the other kids.
I was make sure that they were okay.
I had a plastic guitar.
There's actually a picture on the wallon my murder board here behind me.
I mean, I was actually I was playing
drums and I had a little guitarthat I carry with me everywhere.
So I love music
is I it's funny,like reading the letters from Claire.
(13:22):
She said that like anything from Mantovanito Mozart, to rock n roll,
classic rock, you know, which wasn'tclassic rock then it was rock.
It was just rock.
Yeah.
It does.
And it's got a beautiful Rickenbackerright right behind me here, which
(13:43):
my favorite bass.
I've got a lot of bases,but that's my favorite.
Yeah. So once you replace with the Eckert.
So I was with them almost a year
because no one, no one was claiming me.
So the search was still ongoing.
The police were still advertising.
You still
(14:03):
So what happened
was I became part of the Eckert family.
Like, I really bonded with Fred.
Like, I would wait for himat the end of the driveway
when he came home from work,and I carry his lunchbox in, and, I mean,
I they wanted to adopt me like they reallywanted me to be part of the family.
But then the FBI reached out to themand said,
we think this is a kidnapchild from Chicago.
(14:27):
And it all started when Detective
Farrell remembered the Francis kidnaping
and he saw pictures.
And he he reached outto Otto from the Chicago PD
and asked for the file.
And he had this idea that I was
the actual kidnaped child from Chicago,and that was still an ongoing case.
(14:48):
That was a hot case, right?
I mean, they they really wanted to solvethat because it was it was bad.
So the Chicago PD, the FBI
and the new Newark police,they all got together and started talking.
And they thought,I think that this is the France child.
So they started testing me doingthey took blood tests.
(15:09):
They took a mold of my ear
because the picture of Paul,which is in the newspaper behind me,
that's the only picturewe ever had of him.
But his ear was prominent,so they felt confident enough
that they could see the bumpsand the ridges,
and that could be used as a form of ID.
Yeah, I've read about that.
You know, there was this ideathat, like, fingerprints, ears were unique
(15:33):
to everybody. And, of course,now we know that's not true.
But at the time, with the technologythey had.
Yeah.
And if,the baby wasn't printed, fingerprinted,
Could you imaginewatching an episode of CSI
and they solve this case shaped upbased on someone's ear?
You never watch that show again.
Yeah, this is horrible.
Oh, come on, I'm not goingnot going to believe that.
(15:56):
Yeah, but they believe it, you know,so they, Yeah.
So they decidedthat I was the forensic child.
So then they had to test me.
They started doing psych testsand things for, for quite a while.
And then they finally reached out.
I think after ten months,they reached out to the Franz Acts
and said,we think we have your kidnaped child.
(16:16):
Do you want to drive out to to new Jersey?
And that's my parents got the phone call.
So it's like, once again, sliding doors.
All these different things came together.
It's like the perfect storm of craziness,you know?
So what do you do?
Right.
You go, I this is a crank calland I'm not gonna listen to it.
Sure. Yeah.
(16:36):
I'm sure they'd gotten crank callsthrough this whole process.
You know, we talked about the ransom call.
Like, how do they distinguishwhat's real and what isn't? It?
At some point in time, you just believe
Yeah, unless.
Unless you're someone like mewho believes that.
Leave no stone unturned.
Check out every lead,every every tip that you get.
Because you never know that one.
(16:57):
That you'vethat you thought you just glance over.
Might be the one that could help you.
So myparents did what any, any parent would do.
They got in the carand they drove to new Jersey.
And the hopes of itbeing there long lost kidnaped
child.
Oh man.
(17:20):
If they even talked at all,
I mean, I yeah, I would love to.
It's just retraumatizing themin a lot of ways.
After it seemed like they were so Yeah.
Over two years.
Right.
Yeah.
And I'm sure door kept reliving thatkidnaping when she, when she handed
Paul over.
(17:41):
You know,you're carrying all that inside you.
So when they finally get to new Jersey,
Janet had told meJanet was the daughter of the agates.
She was in high school when
when I was put into,you know, their their foster care.
She said that they werethey weren't allowed to see the Fronczaks.
They were put in a room next doorto where the Fronczaks were.
(18:04):
And then they brought in Scott.
And as soon as they brought Scott in,
I guess they looked at meand I looked at them
and my mom just screamed out,oh my God, that's my baby.
That's Paul.
And Janet heard that and they were crushedbecause even though they wanted,
they wanted me to be back with my
(18:24):
my original family and,you know, have that great family life.
They they wanted to keep me as well.
So it was buried. It's bittersweet.
I'm sure for them, that was hard.
That that. Yeah.
They knew they were going to loseyou right in that moment.
That you were not Yeah.
and you're going to move onto another their new life again.
(18:45):
I think it's interesting, when.
I read
about your experience with the exitsand how they.
You know, describedyou as a as a little boy
and how gentle and tenderyou were with the other children
at the home and how you were almosta caregiver to them.
And, when they would cry,you would stroke their hair and
(19:06):
and ask them, don't cry, don't cry.
And then on the flip side of that,you also talked to yourself
when you would cry and say,don't cry, don't cry.
And it makes you wonder where that Yeah.
Because if you, you know,you start adding up clues.
Like I was afraid of younger men.
And then I would tell myself not to cry.
(19:28):
What happenedwhen I cried? Did I get a black eye?
Yeah.
someone gave you those words?
Someone gave you that phrase.
They said it to you more than once,and you remembered it,
and you knew how to apply itto the situation.
So it was something that you hadYeah. It's.
It's really sad.
(19:48):
Yeah, but you know how,there's a lot of hope there, though,
because you hear was a childwith a heart, despite
maybe all of the terrible thingsthat we don't know, it happened.
You still were a caring humanbeing to your fellow foster kids. And.
And you loved the echo.
Clearly, you looked upon them as parents.
You know, you still had that ability toto open up to Yet
(20:13):
when you when you put that with the factthat I think I knew, like, ten words,
it's, it didn't seem
like I knew a whole lotbecause the letters that.
So the e-cards actually senta lot of letters to my parents.
They hit it in the suitcase.
Oh, And I didn't know about thisuntil just a few years ago.
My mom actually had a scrapbookfull of pictures that the Eckerd sent.
(20:36):
They weren't in the picturesbecause by law, they couldn't be.
But it was just a little glimpse of how
I was at that stage in my life.
Yeah.
I mean, it's almost likethey have to tell your parents about you
because your parentsdon't know you at all.
What are your likes?
What are your dislikes? Where are you at developmentally?
You know,where are we at in potty training?
(20:56):
Where are we at? And and speaking.
They don't even know their own child.
And so you're the actress had a lot offoresight, it seems like, to be able to
Super nice people.
And in the letters,
I think I put them on the websiteso you could actually read them.
It's, They covered a lot of ground,you know, like my menu.
What I ate, my daily routine,my vocabulary, you know, things like that.
(21:20):
My my behavior.
What? I like doing things like that.
Because, like you said,if my my daughter was born,
if I didn't see her for two years,I would have no idea how that child is,
because in two yearsshe was doing so much.
Yeah. Absolutely.
And so it's like a crash coursein getting to know your own Yeah.
(21:41):
I can't even imagine.
I mean, yeah, because like, like you said,you know, being an R.N., you've
you've seen all these things.You understand behavior.
So much can happen in six months,let alone over two years.
and, of course,sent out for your parents, too.
Wondering what you've been throughin the time he's been away from us,
that unknown.
That's a punch to the gut.
(22:02):
Yeah.
I can't even imagine, you know, I mean,talk about taking a leap of faith, right?
Yeah.
That's that's my son.
I haven't seen him for over two years.
I really have no idea, but.
So I talked to my mom about that in depthover the, over the last couple of years
because we didn't talk about it for,I don't know, 40 years,
50 years.
And I finally brought it up and we startedshe started opening up.
(22:25):
You know, it's funny, my,my dad, Chester, passed away in 2017,
and it seems like after he passed away,my mom started becoming more forthcoming
with all these thingsthat they went through.
And she actually told me how she felt.
They were led into that room,and she said the world was watching
because this kidnaping wasit was being watched by everybody.
I, I wasI read about, like, all the testing
(22:47):
that they'd put you through,along with thousands of other
toddler 10,000. That's a
Yeah.
It's a lot of years.
All over the country.
Yeah.
(23:08):
Yeah.
so the FBI agent, Marlin Johnson,
who ended up being a friend of my parentsfor a long time.
He really took chargeof this investigation.
They tested 10,000 boys
to see if one of themcould have been the kidnaped child
they tested using blood, bones,skin, hair in the molds of the ear
(23:28):
because everything was based
on the shape of Paul's earfrom that one hospital photograph.
So, Tracey, as an RNhow do you feel about those kind of tests?
we live in the time that we do.
Because nowwe just do a little swab in the cheek
and we can have all the informationwe need.
Yeah.
Thinking about toddler boys
being poked and prodded and,you know, taking a bone specimen.
(23:48):
Ouch. That's horrible.
And putting these little kids
through all of that just to seeif they could come up with the right baby,
a traumatic for a toddlerand their parent, you know,
and who's taking care of them?
You know, listening to these babies cry,getting their blood drawn and,
tearing me apart.
It's very X-Files for sure.
(24:09):
Yeah. Geez.
All right.
and the, you know, people were thinkingat the time, this is cutting edge.
This isthis is the information that we need
that's going to tell uswhat we need to know.
Yeah. Pretty crazy.
So after the Fronczaks said, that'sthat's our child.
All of a sudden, they have a family now,
(24:29):
so they have to get in the car with me
and drive cross-country back to Chicago.
I wonder what that car ride was like.
You know, the car ride going out.
We watched the car ride, like going back.
They've literally wentfrom having no children
to having a toddler Yeah,
yeah.
Do they have a room ready for you?
(24:50):
Do they have furniture? Do they?
Are they even ready for this?
I know my mom was extremely happy.
I'm sure my dad was happy
because, you know, over two years of pain
and anguish and just,you know, not not moving forward.
And all of a sudden,
you have to have your child back.
(25:12):
So, I mean, it's a happy ending.
I mean, who could ask for more, right?
Yeah, definitely a miracle.
So I get back to Chicagoand they have home movies on me.
The first thing they didwas have me baptized again.
I was already baptized as Scott.
So now I'm back.
(25:33):
I oh, I'm sad.
Yeah, I do, I do.
Yeah.
So I, I was baptized Paul Joseph Fronczak
and started living that new life.
And I had these really cool home movies
of at my aunt and uncle's housejust running around,
and everyone's watching mebecause I was, you know, the celebrity.
(25:54):
I was the kid that was gone for twoyears. Over two years. Right?
And I, you know,
I look at those those home moviesand it's like, I'm not looking at myself.
I'm looking at a movie.
You know, another actorplaying this child.
And it's those,those thoughts that I think
have kept me going all this time
(26:15):
because
the whole thing is so surrealthat you don't really think about it.
Like when you read the book, you're like,okay, that's that's really a crazy story.
It's a good story.
I like it, but when it's you, it'sjust it's a completely different feeling.
It's like you're looking downat something else from from above, right?
(26:36):
Yeah.
Sort of an out of bodykind of thing. That.
That's not.
That's not my life.
That's not me.
I'm watching someone else's home movies.
Watching someone else'sChristmas morning footage.
Riding a bike.
Oh, look at that kid.Learning to ride a trike.
Playing that little guitar.
What a cool kid. Wait, that's Yeah,
yeah.
So I, I took over the role as Pauland everything was cool for a while.
(27:01):
You know, I thought,okay, this is this is my life.
Well, like,what are some of your first memories with
That's where it gets a little fuzzy.
Like, I don't have any memoriestill I was about 5 or 6 years old,
and I went toan elementary school called Oakview,
and my mom made me wear this really crazycolored,
(27:22):
weird design jacket.
And I hated that jacket.
I'm like,I'm going to get beat up in this jacket.
Yeah.
But it was horrible.
But, you know, you thinkabout all the things I could remember.
I remember that.
And I remember Christmas mornings.
David, wake me up really early.
(27:43):
Dave was my younger brother
because after they brought me home,they had just had Dave.
So my mom and dad wentfrom having no children
to having two childrenand then moving into a new house.
So that was a lot for my mom.
She wasshe was overwhelmed, to put it lightly.
Oh, I'm sure that's one.
Having one new infant is a huge lifechange, as I mean, I'm.
(28:07):
You can attest to it as well.
You go from sleeping
when you want, eating when you want,picking up and going when you want to.
I'm not sleeping at all now.
Ever again.
You know, am I doing this right?
Am I being a good parent?
All those anxiety things and hang upwe all have about being parents and times
Times two.
(28:28):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's it's crazy.
But I rememberDave waking me up on Christmas mornings.
And how goes back to Christmas for me.
You know, maybe that's whyI love the Polar Express so much.
this is a it's a big holiday for you.
A lot of things, sticking to Yeah, it'sall Christmas, Christmas and crawl spaces.
That could be,
(28:50):
my next book.
Yeah.
Haha.
I like that.
Yeah, it's good to have goals.
Yeah.
But yeah, I remember growing up with themand they wasn't really a
they wereand Chester were amazing parents.
They really took care of us,but they weren't like real loving parents.
(29:12):
I'm yeah,
you know, a lot of hugging and,you know, kisses and things like that. And
I remember my mom was always cleaning.
She was just always cleaning something.
And once she cleaned part of the houseand Dave and I weren't allowed to play
in that area of the house,it was like a like a museum piece,
you know, like, I, I oftenthink of them like the Rockwell paintings,
(29:34):
like you see on the plates and things.
But when she cleanedan area that was at a Rockwell area,
that was a museumarea, we'd go play in the other areas.
But she was constantly cleaning.
Anyway, it's just I certainchildhood memories that I have.
Yeah.
I mean, and just as an observationfrom the psychological point of view,
(29:57):
you know, people that are obsessivelyclean, and, and they spend a lot of time
cleaning, it's,it can be manifesting a control issue.
I need total control out of every,you know, over everything that's happening
in my life, in my home, in the,you know, vacuuming, obsessively dusting.
It's it's trying to bring order to chaos.
(30:18):
And I'm sure she's feeling a lot of chaos.
Her mind
had to be just spinning all the time,trying to figure out how she was going to
Well.
Yeah.
She couldn'tcontrol someone kidnaping her child,
but she could definitely controlthe house being spotless.
Yeah, and I remember
(30:38):
having, like, the craziest early curfews.
Like, all my friends would stay out later,and I always had to be home early,
or my parents had to always be ableto see where I was.
I mean, the kidnapingwas a big part of their lives,
and even though they didn't talk about it,it came out in actions.
And I just remember
just having really early curfews,not being able to do a lot of things.
(31:01):
They'd never, never tell strangersyour name because the name would
reopen the story again,because for a long time after I was back,
even up to five years old, the mediawas still hounding them every birthday.
Because I have an article of themcelebrating my fifth birthday.
And it was.
I was in the newspapers,so they still had all that stigma
of the media still just hounding them,which is.
(31:23):
it sounds like they just wantednothing more than to just hide.
They just wanted Yeah.
wanted to get on with their livesand didn't
they don't seem like,you know, public people.
They seem very private,and they just didn't Yeah.
Just be a normal family, right?
How about. How about your brother.
How about Dave. Yeah. So they've
(31:45):
they've always
had this real easiness with my parents.
Like, he could just,
like they were always in sync.
And I was that one cogthat just didn't fit in.
That always kind of,you know, stop the motor.
How so how how were you
Well, I look different.
Like Dave looked exactly like my dad,
(32:07):
and I didn't, as a matter of fact,when they when they first found me
and they said that was Paul,when one report said
that I look like Dorafrom the front and Chester from the side,
which is kind of a different way
to make someone they don't fita box right?
I mean, you know,we've we've all seen families
where, you know,we see the family photo and go, oh, okay.
(32:29):
These siblings look sort of alike.
And there's one over herethat, you know, maybe doesn't necessarily
look as much as everyone else.
And then that.
We've all seen those family photoswhere some What's even, you know,
my my daughter had these school functionslike these dance competitions and things.
And whenever we go and I always seeher friends with their parents, I'm like,
(32:50):
oh, my God, you can totally tellthey are exactly their parents child.
I mean, did you like, you didn'tyou feel sorry for me?
No. I'm kidding.
Yeah, yeah.
Youryour fate has been sealed, my friend.
Yeah, yeah,
but I look back at my my old family moviesand family pictures, I'm like, oh,
that's, it's different, you know?
(33:12):
And so. Yeah.Then you feel different, right?
Because you don't sort offit into that same,
But once again, it's just,you know, it was just my feelings
because I was a normal ten yearold living with my family at.
And when you think about Dave,he was with your parents from the minute
he was born.
So they raised him.
You know, it'sthat whole nature nurture thing.
He was with them as an infantthrough, you know, as growing, growing up.
(33:35):
He knew them through his entire life.
And so they were ableto have that impact on him.
They were able to, help himto enjoy the things that they enjoyed.
That's what he grew up knowingand with not knowing what you had
experienced for your first two yearsthere, really.
You know, like I said,they're trying to get to know
you, trying to figure out who you are.
They've had no impact on youin the first two years,
(33:56):
so you're going to be different from them.
Your experience It isn't it.
I think I read somewhere
that the first 3 or 4 years of your lifepretty much set the tone
for the rest of your life.
Yeah.
what your influences are,you know, nature does play a part,
but nurture is also very strong.
And and that's a huge impacton who we become.
(34:18):
Who raises that? Who is our teacher?
Even from the language that you speak to,the culture that you live
in, to your mannerisms, peoplepick up their parents mannerisms
from being with them.
So it doesn't surprise methat you felt like an outsider.
You weren't exposed to themto be able to absorb who
they were as people,what the lifestyle was like.
(34:39):
And we just don't know what your Yeah.
And small things like.
It was a three bedroom house.
They had.My parents had the master bedroom.
Then they had a bigger bedroom.
Then they had a tiny little guest room.
And even though I was the older brother,
I got put in a tiny little guest roomwith a little tiny twin bed
(35:01):
and Dave, the younger brother,got the big room with the big,
you know, full size bed in thereand the big room with all the space.
And I always thoughtthat was kind of weird because, you know,
I had friends that had younger brothers,and they always had the smaller rooms
where the older children had,you know, first dibs on the bedroom.
Sure. Yeah.
I mean, that'sI did that with my kids, you know that?
(35:23):
Yeah.
The older one he got, the bigger spacehe got.
He's older.
Even on The Brady Bunch,that's what they did, right?
Yeah.
So, I mean, to me, I took that as like,well, that's got to mean something.
Sure.
I mean, and at that point in time,you're probably, you know,
you're too young to be aware of iton that sort of higher level of thinking.
But it certainly made you think about.
(35:45):
I'm getting a raw deal. Yeah.
Yeah.
Like, I mean, like I said, Davealways had this easiness with them,
and I never really felt that comfortable,you know?
And we never really talked about things.
It wasn't really a, you know, touchyfeely expression or emotion.
Like my daughterthankfully tells me everything.
And I'm so grateful for that.
I didn't tell my parents yet.
I mean, I was very secretive
(36:06):
And, like, as you were growing up, you.
Did you have a job? Were youwere you working?
Were you hobbies? Yeah.
I was like,what were you like as a teenager?
When I was in grammar school,I started playing guitar for a little bit
and my mom said, okay, well,you want to try that?
We'll get you some lessons.
I did it for a while.I just didn't like it, you know?
And then I played clarinet,which was going to go nowhere.
(36:29):
Nobody.
I'm like,I can't play Rush on the clarinet.
Right. But I
and I constantly had strep
throat because I never cleanedthe reeds out properly.
The mouthpiece, my mom was like,enough of that.
We can't we can't keep calling the doctorfor strep throat.
So I, eventuallyI stopped playing clarinet.
I didn't like guitar.
(36:50):
So when I mentioned bass,they said, you're on your own band.
We tried two things.
We're not doing nothing. Right.
You want this? You do it by yourself.
So I had saved money for my job,and I bought a cheap
Fender copy bass called the Hondo.
It weighed about 75 pounds.
It was. It was horrible.
The action was, if you knowwhat action is, it was super high.
(37:12):
But I learned how to play bass.
I taught myself how to play.
And out of out of high school.
There were only two bass playersthat were good.
Me and this guy named Ray.
And Ray was really good,and he taught me a couple of things,
But I reallyI really learned how to play bass and that
that was a sliding door moment for mebecause once again,
learning, just learning
how to play bass took me in a directionthat changed my life completely.
(37:35):
Shortly down the road.
And so as you'removing through this high school phase
and getting readyto figure out what your next step is
All right.
So I'm getting readyto graduate high school.
I still haven'tforgot about the kidnaping.
(37:56):
I still thought about the articlesI found about me being the kidnaped child.
You know, I had, you know, like I said,
I just felt likeI just didn't didn't belong.
So I had a chance.
I was supposed to go to collegefor business.
That's what everyone did afterhigh school.
Because, you know,
(38:18):
I was I signed up,I was going to start college, but then
right before high school ended,I was picking up my girlfriend
from a restaurant where she worked at,and I heard these two guys talking about,
all we need is a bass playerand we're ready to roll.
I was like,I leaned over, I said, I'm a bass player.
And the guys looked at me like,yeah, can you play rush?
(38:39):
And I said, oh, I can play rush.
Okay, all right, tough guy.
We're going to rehearse tomorrow.
Here's the address.Show up and let's see what you got.
The new rush albums had just come outand the top single was New World, man.
So I learned it that night,
showed up the next day, played it,and they said that was pretty good.
Can you move to Arizona?
(39:00):
I said, absolutely, I can move to Arizona.
Oh no.
So that was the easy part.
Then had to go and tell my parents, I'mnot going to college.
I'm going to be in a rock and roll bandway across the world in Arizona.
Oh, that was horrible.
Yeah.
That was,that was a different conversation
(39:21):
that still lives on in Symphony.
Yeah, it was going crazy.
And here's the funny part.
Right when I left forArizona, I never looked back.
(39:41):
No, no, I was excited, you know,I was free.
I could do what I want.
I get to play music.
Yeah.
So you moved to Arizona.
You had a good run with the band.
It sounds like.
You know, it's,it lasted about seven years,
(40:03):
and it was great because I was inI grew up in a household
that never even listened to music,but I was drawn to it for some reason.
Like I said, I taught myselfhow to play bass, and that's the one
constant in my entire lifethat still play bass today.
But growing up in a family without music,you wonder, how does someone
just have that musicality?
So I lasted about seven years in the band,and then after the band
(40:26):
broke up, I just became a wanderer.
I just drifted in a lot of jobs.
I went to Chicago for a while.
I joined the Armybriefly, got out, got married,
move.
I moved to move to Las Vegas.
And that's when, you know,things really got interesting, you know?
You know, it's funny,even though the newspaper clippings
(40:48):
were in the crawlspace,I still kept them with me.
And I still have them to this day.
So I think it was always in the back of mymind, you know, am I just a regular kid?
You know, but that's somethingthat everyone thinks about.
So, I mean, so all of a suddenI find myself in Las Vegas.
I probably had 100 jobs.
I movedat least probably 30 times in my life.
(41:08):
I just just wandered. I don't know why.
I just
it's like I was always searching forsomething, but I didn't know what it was.
I know a lot of
people are like that,but I couldn't control it.
You know, like my first marriage,I just walked away, you know?
And then I.
It wasn't hard for you
Know it was.
(41:29):
No, it was so amicable. And it.
I think we pay like, 50 bucks.
Got divorced.
You know, I have a good day.
Yeah,
yeah, yeah.
I mean, it just just movedon, and I dated quite a bit.
And then I was living,
I was, I moved to Californiabecause I was doing a lot of acting stuff.
And I met this girl named Michelle,and she happened to live in Las Vegas.
(41:53):
I met her at a party in San Diego,
and I got booked as GeorgeClooney stand in for Ocean's 11,
which was shooting in Vegas.
And I had I had lived in Vegas.
Right. So I, I loved Vegas.
I just moved to California for a while
because I got tired of driving backand forth for auditions.
So when Michelle said that she was livingin Vegas, I was like, this is fantastic.
(42:15):
So I stayed with herwhile we were shooting the film.
And then when it was over, I was like,I think I'm just going to stay back here
in Vegas. And we ended up getting married.
It was fantastic.
And I thought, this is it.
I can finally settle down.
You know, I'mgoing to stop wandering around.
I got a job working for a collegeas a presenter.
(42:37):
It was still an acting gig,but it was steady, with benefits,
you know, regular hours. Got to.
Got to travel.
I got to go all over thecountry, which was fantastic.
And then
one day, Michelle was like, hey,why don't we have a child?
I was like, that's that's a great idea.
I never thought about that.
You know, I'm in my I'm in my 40s by now.
(42:57):
At this point,I thought I'd never have children.
And all of a sudden she's like, well,you know, let's, let's let's try.
Boom.All of a sudden she's pregnant, right?
I was like, this is this is cool.
I really wanted to have a girl.
I was I was a boy.
And I know how boys are growing up.
And I was like,you know, let's have a girl.
It'd be much, much better journey for me.
(43:18):
So, of course, you know,if you manifest it, you make it true.
We had the ultrasound and sure enough,she said, you're having a girl.
And Michelle will tell you.
I ran around that room screaming.
I was so excited, like, yeah, I'mgoing to be a dad to a daughter, you know?
And everything was cool.
Everything was great. I was so excited.
And then we went into the doctor's office,you know, routine, you know,
(43:41):
ultrasound checks, stuff like that.
And then they asked me a questionthat I've heard my whole life.
What's your medical history?
Which everyone is asked.
And I asked
right.
So I started spouting off the thingI was always told, you know,
I'm an mom and dad, you know, whateverwhat I, what I thought was my history.
(44:02):
And then those newspaper clippingscame back in my mind
and I started thinking, what if by chance,
I'm really not that kidnapedchild, Paul from from Chicago.
I think I should find out because
I think I'm doing a disserviceto my my new daughter.
Am I being genuine?
What if I have a medical condition?
(44:23):
What if I'm really not this guy?
There's got to be a way I could find out.
So one day I was in the CVSand I'm walking
down the aisle, and it's like a brightspot, like, just shown.
And this one product,it was an identity gene paternity kit.
It was like the universe was pushing metowards that item.
(44:44):
So I picked it up and I, I found myselfwalking towards the counter with it.
I set it down.
So, tracey, what do you think?
Is that a good place to leave?
Slider moment.
So if you're.
Yeah.
(45:05):
Yeah.
So if you want to find outwhat happens next,
make sure you tune infor the next episode.
We're only getting started.
tracey, always a pleasure.
I'll see you next week.
All right.
Thanks.
Bye bye.
The project files is createdand hosted by Paul
Jack Fronczak, co-hosted by MeTracey Hastings.
(45:29):
edited by Gavin Boughner.
Lead genetic genealogist Emily Ripper.
Lead historical researcherColleen Newhart.
Social media manager Amy Morris.
original theme music written and producedby Paul Jack Grant and Rick Holland.
Thank you for joining us on the journey.
And please remember to subscribe.
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