June 24, 2025 • 40 mins
In 1964, a woman disguised as a nurse walked into a Chicago hospital, took a newborn from his mother’s arms, and vanished. The baby was never seen again… until a 10-year-old boy found a box of newspaper clippings hidden in a crawlspace. That boy was Paul Fronczak.
The Fronczak Files isn’t just a true crime podcast. It’s Paul’s firsthand account of a mystery that shattered his identity and changed hospital security forever.
In Episode 1, Paul and co-host Tracey Hastings take you from the hospital room where it began to the moment in December when everything changed.
What really happened to Baby Paul?
Who was the woman in the nurse’s uniform?
And why did no one tell Paul the truth?
Subscribe now and turn on notifications. The truth is finally coming out, and some people don’t want it told.
Drop your questions for Paul and Tracey in the comments!!!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
In April 1964,
a woman dressed like a nursewalked into a hospital room in Chicago.
She told a new mother that the doctorneeded to see the baby for more tests.
The mother handed the baby over.
The nurse walked out of the roomand then vanished without a trace.
I set off one of the largest manhuntsin Chicago.
(00:22):
And that's only the beginning.
I'm Paul Fronczak.
I was that baby.
And I'm Tracey Hastings.
This season, the Fronczak Fileswill take you on a journey
following the twistsand turns of Paul's story.
Many of you may have heard my story.
Another podcasts or other TV showsand things like that.
(00:42):
But at the end of the day,you really don't know, Jack.
Welcome to the Fronczak Files.
(01:07):
You know,
I don't want the show to be just anotheraudio book,
you know, spitting out factsabout what happened.
The story was very tragic,and people know that.
But what they don't knowis what really happened behind the scenes.
How did it affect people?
How did people feel?
What, like my parentswhen they went through this?
(01:28):
What what do you think is going throughsomeone's mind?
All those things you can't get withjust the facts.
All right.
So are we going to start with 1974.
All right.
So Tracey from 1974 can you set the scene.
Sure.
Watergate. Big story that year.
The break in at the DemocraticNational Convention,
(01:50):
at the WatergateHotel, people trying to wiretap phones
and steal information to assist Nixonin his reelection campaign, Yeah, yeah.
movie guy.
I know you watch a lot of films.
Got a background in acting.
Top films of 1974.
The Godfather, Part two.
(02:11):
Oh. Yeah.
Excellent.
And so right about this time, you'reyou're what, like
I was 10 in 1974.
That's where this journey really started.
This is where my life kind of took.
There was a moviecalled Sliding Doors a while ago
about how your life could changein a matter of seconds
if you just take a different,different route.
(02:34):
And I decided to take a routethat changed my life forever.
And it's still being changed today.
Well All right.
So in 1974,
we already set the scene,but it was Christmas time.
My street was like a Rockwell painting.
I grew up in Oklahoma,on the south side of Chicago.
(02:55):
You know, mostly working class Irish,Polish.
And Christmas time was like,I used to get up early after a fresh snow
because it was cold out,but just to, you know,
walk up and down, you know,be the first footprints in that snow.
Look at all the other lights,because the sun hasn't come up yet.
And it's justthose memories are forever ingrained.
And that to me iswhat Christmas still is to this day.
(03:17):
Except I live in Las Vegasand there isn't much snow.
That lights.
Okay, so My dad was at work.
He was a machinist.
He worked for Foot Brothers.
They made
transmissions for helicopters and things,you know, for the for the military.
I a, you know,Department of Defense contracts.
(03:37):
My mom was upstairs doing somethingdishes, cleaning.
She was always cleaning.I mean, the house was.
But I mentioned a Rockwell painting.
It was really like that.
So I was downstairslooking for Christmas presents.
I thought, this is a great timeto maybe sneak inside that crawl space.
Kind of a scary crawlspace.
I actually had pictures on my
my board behind me, and actually,I think we'll put them on the website.
(03:59):
I moved the couch.
I opened a little threeby four crawl space door,
and I kind of scanned the entire room.
It was dark,
but I thought if they have presents forus, they're going to be in here.
Had you had. Hadyou looked in there before?
And now for Christmas presents.
You know, I'm I'm like,yeah, I've always been kind of a snooper.
(04:20):
You know, I like to I don't know why.
Maybe as I guesswe'll get to that later. Right.
I turn on the light and I scan around,looking in the back.
I saw a bunch of boxes and I thought,this is it.
This is the big score for Christmas.
So I kind of low crawledbecause the ceiling was really low
and there were spiderwebsand, you know, nails
sticking out of the the floor,which scary, right?
(04:44):
But I'm like, you knowwhat? Spiders are Christmas presents.
I think I'll take the I'll take the heat.Yeah.
So I crawled back and I found the boxesand I open the first box
and I didn't see Christmas presents.
I saw newspaper clippings and I was like,well, this is not Christmas.
What is this? Right. So I grabbed one.
I started looking at itand it was these things on the wall
(05:05):
right behind me, all these headlines frompapers all over the country,
but mostlyin Chicago, because that's where
this whole event happenedthat I was going to read about.
So I look at the first headline, it's,
Sad City Hunt drags on for missingkidnaped
child 10,000,
FBI agents or police,all looking for his kidnaped child.
(05:29):
I was like, okay,so something someone was kidnaped.
And then I saw a pictureof my mom and dad,
and they looked really, really sad.
They were, you know, crying.
And they looked likethey hadn't slept in a long time.
And it said the hunt for Paul.
Joseph.
Fronczak drags on and I'm like, okay,wait a minute.
That's me, Paul, Joseph Fronczak.
(05:50):
And those are my parents in that picture.
So I got real excited.
Okay, I kind of forgotabout the Christmas presents.
I grabbed one of the headlines
and I ran upstairs to my mom,
and I was all excited,and I just like, mom, what is this?
I mean, I read the headline.
She stopped what she was doing.She turned around.
She looked at me,she saw what was in my hand,
(06:11):
and her face went from, you know,a normal, kind person to this rage.
And she simply said,how dare you stoop around his house?
Those aren't your things.
I said, well, wait a minute,this is about me, right?
This kidnapping Paul Joseph Fronczak.
She said, you were kidnaped.
We found you. We love you.
(06:32):
That's all there is to talk about this.
And I was, like, completely deflatedbecause I was like, excite.
I'm ten years old.
This is likethe coolest thing I've ever seen.
And I know my parents.
When they said something, they meant itand I wasn't going to talk back.
And I thought, okay, so I walked away.
We never talked about it again,but I never forgot.
(06:54):
And I kept those paper clippings with me.
Yeah.
I'm looking at some of these newspaperclippings
that I'm imagining you sawwhile you were going through those boxes.
And I want to read some of it, but first,
why don't we hear a little bitabout your mom and dad,
since they're a big part of this storythis season.
And tell us about them.What kind of people are they?
(07:15):
So my mom was from a little towncalled Escanaba, Michigan,
in the U.P.,the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.
She was in a family of ten children.
They had two bedrooms.
They had an outhouse.
And if you Google,if you Google the weather in Escanaba
in the winter, it's winterfor like nine months a year with nothing
but snowand torrential, wind and just horrible.
(07:39):
So my mom told me stories growing upas a little girl, having to run outside
in the middle of the night to go,to go to the bathroom, and that outhouse.
And then she said later in life,when they upgraded,
they actually put in a bathtubin the basement.
But it wasn't a running water bath,so they had to fill it with jugs of water.
My, no.
(07:59):
I tell my daughter that and she's like,get out of here, you're making this up.
Here's a little house on the prairie.
So my mom was lucky because
she was the youngest out of ten,so she got to take her bath first.
But they they weren't changing the water.
So at the time, you were the 10th,you were probably like, you know what?
I think I'm good.
I don't need to get in there, you know?
(08:21):
Yeah.
So it was,it was a different, different time.
So my mom grew up with those values.
My dad, both his parents were from Poland,
so he grew up in Chicago's South Side.
He went in the military, came back,and he worked as a machinist.
And one day he grew up in Brighton Park,which is, you know, kind of a cool
(08:42):
a little, little side note,what was his name?
Ron Howard shot a movie called shot shot,
a movie called Backdraft,two blocks from my grandma's house.
They used the firehousethat was right there.
And my grandma would sneak over thereand sneak into the craft
service area and get all the food.
And she actually befriended
Ron Howard and his wife,which I thought was pretty funny.
(09:03):
So it was a quaint little neighborhood,Brighton Park.
My mom worked in the bank there.
She had moved from from Escanabato Chicago as quick as she could.
As soon as you get out of high school,
because nobody wantedto grow up in Escanaba,
right?
So herand her older sister moved to Chicago.
My mom got a job as aand working in the bank there.
And my dad, who lived about a block anda half away, we do all his banking there.
(09:27):
And one day he walked in the bankand he saw Dora,
and he's like, wow, this is, I gottaI've gotta go out with this girl.
So he asked her outand of course she said, no, no, no way.
Right.
So my dad, being the persistent guythat he is, he did that for five years,
kept trying to get her to go out with himright.
(09:51):
And my mom said that one day she was like,you know what?
What is that guy Chester?
He hasn't. I've seen him a couple of days.He hasn't asked me out.
So she had just bought a new car.She was driving down the street.
She saw him crossing the street,so she pulled over and yelled at him.
Hey, do you want to go out?
And Chester said, oh my God, yeah.
And they have been together ever since.
(10:14):
Okay. I love your mom.
What a strong woman. Like she.
She bought her a car, her offroom all by herself.
At this time, when, you know,it was not easy for women to buy things
on their ownwithout having a man on alone,
Yeah.
Yeah.
She's, She's stronger than you'll ever know.
(10:34):
Yeah.
So, Tracy, I think you actually havesome of the clippings
that I pulled out of the box.
one that I'm looking at here.
Dated Chicago, April 28th.
Headline baby stolen at a hospital.
And it reads, hundreds of policemencombed a Southside neighborhood house
to house today for a two day old baby boyabducted from his mother's arms.
(10:58):
And Michael Reesehospital, the mother, Mrs.
Dora Fronczak, at 28,
told police she was feeding her babywhen a woman dressed as a nurse entered
and took the infant, sayingit had to be returned to the nursery.
When a nurse asked Mrs.
Fronczak for the child.
A short time later, the abductionwas discovered and the police were called.
The infant is the only child of Mr.and Mrs.
(11:19):
Chester S. Fronczak Junior of Chicago.
Fronczak, an aircraft machinist,broke the news to his wife
that the baby, Joseph, had been stolen.
The hospital does not make a practiceof making footprints of newborn infants
that could handicap police.
If the infant is missing for some time.
All right, so that pretty much takes usinto what really happened.
(11:43):
So I think, Tracey,we should go back to 1964.
Sure will go back even a decade further.
The 60s.
Who wasn't confused in the 60s, right?
Time of profound change.
Social and political ideals were shifting.
The country is moving morefrom a traditional way of living
into a more modern way.
(12:04):
And growing pains are always hard.
And so the civil rights amendmentsallowed for integration in schools.
It made employment discrimination illegaland started us on the path
to equality in this country.
We were alsoin the middle of the Cold War.
And I remember this.
I remember as a kid doing,
(12:27):
Yeah, I remember that.
hallways and put your head up againstthe wall and shelter in place, like, yeah.
So, you know, we're giving
getting this false sense of securityfrom the adults around us
that if there's a nuclear war,you'll be fine.
Hide under your desk. And and music.
Number one song on
Let me guess.
(12:47):
I'm going to say the Beatles.
Which one?
Of course.
on April 26th at Michael Reese Hospital
in Chicago, Paul JosephFronczak was born to Chester
So of course, Chester and Dora,one of the start a family.
So they decided to have a child.
(13:07):
And when they had their first child,it was a stillborn.
So they were devastated.
I mean, nobody wants to
to not go home with the child
right after, after,you know, giving birth.
So they related to be pregnantand to be having Paul Joseph,
this is going to be like theirmy mom later said
(13:28):
they put all their hopesand dreams into this child.
So my mom gives birth.
It's a healthy, healthy boy.
She was 28.
Chester was my dad was 33.
Paul was 7 pounds, two ounces
in room 418.
Everything was fine.
April 26th April 27th.
(13:51):
Paul was in the nursery as what they.
But you know, back then when I had mydaughter out here, we never left the room.
We kept her.
And, you know, the next day wewe took her home
and we knew that she was our child backthen.
They would take the baby away, put itin a nursery with all the other babies.
And I mean to me right there,what could go wrong, right?
(14:11):
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
A lot of things can go wrongwith that situation.
And ironically,they had no security right?
Yeah, yeah.
(14:32):
So it was April 27th.
Paul was less than a day old.
The nurse brought Paul from the nurseryto Dora to, you know, for feeding time.
Everything's happy.
You know, Dora withmy mom was extremely happy.
You know, this isthis is everything she's wanted, right?
So she's feeding the baby.
(14:53):
This nurse walks in
and tells her that the doctor
needs to see the baby for more testing.
My mom thought it was strange
that a nurse would want to takethe baby away during feeding,
because it's such a precious timeand the baby needs to to eat right?
So she handed the baby overbecause it's a nurse in a hospital
(15:14):
and that's what you do.
She handed the baby over.
The nurse took the baby, left that room,went down a few flights of stairs,
and then jumped into a cab that was waiting outside and vanished without a trace.
The hospital
was totally unaware of what's going on.
As a matter of fact,it was almost an hour or so before that.
(15:36):
They noticed the baby was even missing.
And then to make it worse,they thought the baby was just misplaced.
So they decided to not tell Mrs.
Fronczak.
They decided to just spend a few hourslooking for the baby,
and the baby was taken about 10:00in the morning.
They didn't notifythe police til three in the afternoon,
(15:59):
and they didn't even tell Mrs.
Fronczak.
They called my dad at work and told him,your baby's gone.
You need to come and tell your wife.
My dad was at work and the machine shop
because back then there was no such thingas paternity leave.
He had to go and do his shift.
He was handingout cigars with his buddies,
(16:20):
and then he gets this call.
So he has to race down to the hospitalto tell his his wife, who's totally happy
because she's waiting, you know, for herchild to come back for the next feeding,
that the baby's not coming back,the baby's gone.
And then as soon as she said that,
all the FBIand the police just charged into the room,
you know, reportersjust snapping pictures and,
(16:43):
you know, screaming out questions and,you know, all this.
And my mom didn't knowwhat the hell was going on.
She had just been told the mosthorrible news that you can ever imagine.
And then she's flooded with the media.
And to this day,she really hates the media.
But now I don't. I don't blame her.
You know, it's ironic how we actually usethe media later down the road,
(17:04):
but it's the whole thing
happened and it was just it was bizarre,you know, within a couple of hours,
the FBI had scrambled all these policeofficers.
The postal workerstook 120,000 letter carriers.
They had them going door to door,
knocking on doors,trying to find this kidnaped baby.
Lee Kelsey was the cab driver
(17:26):
that happened to bethe unlucky one to pick up the Kidnaper.
When she had ordered the cab,she had told him to meet her
by a different,different wing, different name.
He said that's not Michael Reese Hospital.
So then she corrected herselfand said, meet me at the back doors.
She came out.
The baby, wrapped in the blanket,jumped in the cab.
He took her down to like 35th and Halsted.
(17:49):
She got out and he said he
saw her get into another car and take offand that was it.
She just vanished.
Later when he was interviewed.
This poor guy, I mean, he ended upbeing dragged in for all kinds of
whenever they they foundsomeone that they thought was the kidnaper
they'd brought him in to do aand I witness you know it, you know,
what would they call itwhen you recognize the person you know?
(18:13):
Is that the person?
And he's like, no, right.
So and anyway, so he said that he had seen
this lady numerous timesaround that neighborhood.
So she must have had somethingto do with that area,
whether she lived thereor was staying with somebody.
But I think back on, Lee Kelsey,
I feel bad for himbecause that really changed his life,
(18:33):
you know, plus probablythe feeling that he had inside,
knowing that he picked up a kidnaper.
That's just all, baby.
You know, that'sit's something that it's been really
it's been on my mind latelyand it's kind of hard to shake.
I mean, this this whole story has affectedso many people over the years.
And I found thatthe people never really got over it.
(18:54):
It's always been a part of them.
And that'sthat's what I was talking about.
When this is a journey, not just likean audio book full of facts,
but how it actually affects peopleand the human emotion
that's tied into something like thisto a tragedy.
so in addition to the human element
of having your child kidnapedand everyone else that's involved with it,
(19:16):
how about the failure of the institution?
very blatant and very obvious.
When we look back on itfrom through our lens from today,
as a high risk obstetrical nursefor 18 years,
I have seen security, for instance,evolve.
Just in the last 18 years,it has changed and improved.
It was nonexistent in 1964.
(19:40):
Today, babies are but printedwithin their first hour of life.
Babies are banded.
We have double bands on babies.
One goes on a wrist, one goes on an ankle.
We do that
because babies tend to lose weightin the first few days after they're born,
and they could wiggle themselvesout of one of those ID bands.
(20:01):
So we never want a babythat's not identified in some way.
Parents are given matching bandsor the mom, and then someone of her
choice has a matching bandnumbers, match names, match.
Everything has to line up.
And in orderfor us to hand a baby over to a mother,
and as far as culturally for a labor
(20:21):
and delivery, we no longer have nurseriesand most of our hospitals.
Babies stay at the bedside.
Now, everything is done at the bedside.
Bathing medications assessment.
And if the babies do need to go somewherefor more invasive testing,
a person is allowed to go with them.
An adult who has the band can accompanythat baby to whatever procedure
(20:44):
it might be, whether it's an X-rayor to the operating room.
Any of those type of things.
So, babies are also
given a security deviceon the opposite ankle,
which is a Bluetooth devicethat is hooked up to a security system.
And, babies have to be cleared to go downcertain hallways,
(21:04):
near certain doors, like,all stairwell doors are a trigger.
If a baby is wheeled near
a stairwell door,it will start sounding a very loud alarm.
Everyone on the floor scrambles,
to findwhat's called a code pink location.
Every hospital has plaques on the wall
(21:24):
that identify where those Code Pinklocations are, and staff
members are drilledregularly for how to find those places
And Tracey, can I ask what promptedCode Pink?
interesting story here is the kidnapping
Which one was that?
(21:44):
The Fronczak kidnapping.
started this whole processof slowly evolving
security for babies in the hospital.
And it was still slow.
This stuff didn't happen overnight.
It was still a slow process
because I think most people thoughtthis was an anomaly.
This is something that is unusual.
This is not the common, normal thing.
So it was still slow at that point.
(22:06):
And so hospitals are very diligentabout this now about keeping babies safe.
All labor and delivery units are locked.
We have badges that we have to badge inwith and the doors will unlock.
People are interviewed essentiallybefore they come on the floor.
Who are you here to see?
What room are they in? We want names.
We want location
so that we know that peoplethat are coming on to the floor
(22:27):
are actually familymembers, are people that
So you're saying out of this
horrible tragedy,something good actually came out of it?
Yeah.
That's fantastic.
there's some statistics,from the, center
for Missing and Exploited Children,about babies that are abducted.
(22:47):
They consider an infant abductionto be the abduction of any child
under one year of age.
And this,abduction can take various forms
from, being abductedfrom, like, a non-custodial parent,
to a stranger abduction,to being abducted from the hospital,
from their home or in a public place.
And there are several,
(23:10):
numbers that they have compiled,
total abductions of infantsrelated to health care
confirmed by the National Centerfor Missing and Exploited Children
from 1964to January of 2025, in the US, 1964
being this case, there's been 148
children taken from health care facilitiesin that Well.
(23:33):
you think about the thousandsand thousands and thousands of babies
have been bornsince then, 140 isn't a lot, but it's 140
Well said.
Yeah.
So thanks for those.
Those facts, by the way.
It's very eye opening.
It's very sad, but at least there's hope.
And I like that.
(23:55):
So the funny thing
about the nurse,a lot of people saw her, but
the hospital never really bothered to tryto get descriptions of her right away.
They were justthey just thought the baby was misplaced.
So when the police came in,they had their sketch artist, Otis Raffel,
come in and do a quick sketch of what,
a couple of people that saw thethe kidnapper
(24:18):
what she might look like 35 to 45 yearsold, around five, three.
Kind of brownish, grayishhair, graying hair, no scars.
Just a regular person. Could be anybody
but Joyce Doane, who was the patientnext to me?
Dora, my mom in the hospitalso that she looked like
(24:38):
a very uncaring personthat probably didn't like children.
And I thought that wasthat was pretty interesting, right?
And a lot of times people go, well, maybeit's someone who just wanted a child,
but someone with that description to meisn't somebody that wanted a child.
And she was seen for a couple of daysbefore the kidnapping
looking at different babies, almost likeshe was shopping for that perfect one.
(25:03):
And then when she said she found the onethat she thought would fit the bill, Paul,
then she decided, okay,I need to just grab this baby and run.
yeah, at the time, there was no such thingas profiling criminals.
That was not a done thing.
So people were relyingjust on their physical attributes to,
to see if people would recognize them.
But today, after,you know, years of of study
(25:27):
in this field and profiling,what type of a person would take a baby?
The National Centerfor Missing and Exploited Children,
they've released some information aboutwhat type of a woman could be an abductor,
and they typicallyare all of childbearing age.
They are most likely compulsive.
They rely a lot on manipulation,lying and deception
(25:50):
to get what they want,which I'm sure describes a lot of people.
They and.
And and people will say that they hearthese women
talk about the they've lost a babyor they're incapable of having one.
This becomes a big theme in their life.
They either have had a stillbirthor a miscarriage, or have been told that
they're infertile, and this could drivetheir need to adopt a child.
(26:14):
Oddly enough, they're often married,
or they're often collaboratingwith someone else.
And this can feed into their desireto give their companion a child
if they're unable to do so,they could be driven to take a baby
in order to please their partner.
This is something that the partner wants.
Oftentimes, they live in the communitywhere the abduction has taken place.
(26:36):
That's very common, which makes sense.
They would know the streets,they would know the ways to get away.
They would be ableto watch comings and goings.
They were
frequent visitors to their nurseryor the maternity units
at more than one health care facilityin the area prior to the abduction.
And they were asking a lot of questions.
And we know that this nurse had gone
(26:57):
into more than just your mother's roomto look at baby Paul.
She it was reportedthat she was in other rooms as well,
taking down blankets,looking at babies, turning on her heel
and walking out and saying nothing.
Like yousaid, I'm shopping for a baby. Like
They even had sightingsfrom different hospitals of the same lady.
Yeah.
(27:17):
right into that profile that they arescouting out other hospitals as well,
which is the place that's going to bethe easiest for me to take a baby.
They ask a lot of questionsabout procedures,
about the maternity floor layout.
They use fire exit stairwells, to escapebecause these are not guarded.
They're easy ways to get out.
And occasionallythese babies are ejected from the home
(27:40):
setting as well,but predominantly from a hospital.
And the abductions are usuallywell planned.
This is not somethingthat is done on the fly.
They have usually has targeted a baby,
and they're just going to waitfor their moment to take them.
And though this can describea lot of people, a lot of women,
in the setting of security
(28:02):
on a labor and delivery floor,this is a very dangerous person.
And I mean, just ballsy. Alone, right?
Just to be able to do that to me.
To talk to the mother face to face.
I need to take your baby.
And then just walk out.
Right. And I still feel bad.
There's Lee.
Kelsey's in the picture.
(28:22):
He's the cab driver right there.
I mean, I really feel bad for him andhis family that he had to go through that.
And he was just an innocent bystanderjust doing his job, you know,
trying to pay, trying to pay his bills,you know, picking up a fare.
Right.
And who knew that that little thingwould change his life and the way it did?
(28:43):
It's so crazy.
Yeah.
It's hard to imagine what your parentsmust have been feeling
at this point in timewith, losing a second baby.
And, you know, from what I understand,your dad wasn't a very.
Didn't seem like a very emotional guy.He didn't talk about his feelings
very much.
From what I understand about him.
(29:03):
But there's some really touching quotesin the newspaper that he was able to give
when reporters were asking him
how he felt about all of thisand what was happening.
And simple and to the point,he says, please take care of the baby
and return him, almost begging to
please bring that child back.
He also is quoted as saying,I just want to plead
(29:25):
for the kidnaper to take care of the babyand to return him.
She should give him formula.
There's a recipefor that in the newspaper.
Please take care of our baby.
So it just
sort of speaks to a parent's desireto care for their child.
And the child is not present.
And they're still agonizing over
You know, when one reporter in a storyactually said
(29:49):
that she was a mother for the second time,going home with no children
and just heartlessto even even put that in print, you know?
So Dora stayed in the hospitalfor five days after the kidnapping.
Five days.
She kept hoping that that whoever tookPaul would bring him back to the hospital.
(30:09):
And then eventually she said,you know what?
I've got to go home.
I've got to start living my life again.
Even though she didn't want to.
So I can't even imaginejust being in the hospital for five days,
you know?
You know, the thing that really got me waswhen Paul was taken
in the hospital, knewthey had a student nurse.
(30:29):
Mary transferred.
She was a student nurse,and they told her the baby's gone.
But do not let Mrs. fronczak know.
Take her throughall the classes, business as usual.
Because the baby's probablyjust misplaced.
We'll find himand everything will be fine.
But she knew her baby was gone,
and I got to meet her
(30:51):
and she hugged me.
And you could feel.
You could still feel it with her.
This has been with herher whole life that she did that.
And you can'tyou can't shake something like that.
You know, once again,
when something like this happens,it just doesn't affect 1 or 2 people.
It affects everyone.It's a chain reaction.
(31:12):
And when you're starting out
your nursing careerand you're told to lie to a patient
and then cover it up like that,that's that's insane.
And she she stayed a nurse
and she retired, you know,an amazing nurse, which is so fantastic.
And I was hoping to get her on the show,but it just didn't work out.
But just to meet her, you know,someone that was actually there living
(31:34):
through this, it's incredible, you know,and it gives you hope and humanity.
I. I reallyfeel for Mary as a nurse myself.
I feel how devastating that
must be to feel like you took part insomething like this.
That you didn't know enough to stop it.
You didn't realize it was happening.
(31:54):
And as a young nurse just starting out,like you said, to be asked to lie
to a patient that does not seta good precedent for a career
as an and, also that, you know, that whole subterfuge
just to keep up the lie, to keep, keepit propped up
so that they could try to recover thisbaby, that would never happen today.
(32:15):
And, you know,I mean, what you tell me about Mary.
I wish that I had been able to meet her.
I wish she was able to come on the showand be able to talk to us herself
and tell us your story.
If I could
speak to her,I would just like to tell her thank you.
Because even thoughshe experienced the trauma
of being a part of this event,and it carried it with her her whole life,
(32:37):
she was also an integral partof the change that took place in caring
for moms and babies and their safety,and that cannot be replaced.
And so it's, it's a lifelong burden thatshe has carried to have been part of it.
But it's also been huge for change.
Yeah. It's,
You're making me tear up a little bithere.
(32:58):
Yeah.
You know, and then you have to havethat aspect of it.
And then you actually have the whole cityof Chicago coming together, right?
Trying to find this babythat was kidnaped from a hospital.
200 policeand FBI descended upon the city.
Thousands of homes were searched.
They, I can't believe how much manpower
(33:20):
they invested into actually tryingto find this, this child.
You know, as a matter of fact,Susan Nolan reached out to me.
Her dad was actually John Norris.
He was a beat cop in Chicago,and he became a desk sergeant
his whole career.
I mean, he dealt with thousands of casesthroughout his career.
(33:40):
There was only one casethat he actually made part of his life.
He actually took it home with him.
And she actually, I'mgoing to show you this.
She actually gave me this file
that he kept in his in his home,
because this is the actual police fileon the front of that kidnapping.
(34:02):
And inside, it's just
I mean, this is the original picturesthat the hospital took apart.
They didn't have time to blood type homeor get a footprint,
but they had time for thisglamor shot, right?
Yeah.
And,
yeah, more on that later.
(34:22):
But I just to me, I spent a whole dayjust going through these files, you know.
And here's the thing.
This isn't like today's police work.
Everything is handwritten.
Everything.
Or typed very poorly.
You know, just the typing.
I mean, just the the time alonethat they took to just to type this stuff.
(34:46):
And you can see,I mean, there's just pages and pages
of all these accounts. It
they had fake ransom notices going in.
You know, the,
the cops said they were chasing down
people that,you know, were trying to get ransom money.
People would phone in tips about,you know, this woman was found in a subway
(35:07):
platform and subway, you know, they hadthe, the, the the trains in Chicago.
And of course, wheneverthey brought someone in to a station,
they had to bring Lee Kelseyand the cab driver again to, to do I
try to identify them.
Yeah.
Over andover and over and all these things.
It's just it's to me,it's just mind boggling
(35:29):
how much effort they put in itto try to find this.
This kidnaped child.
Yeah.
When I was reading about it, you know,I was reading like, numbers, like,
that,they were looking at like 2600 hospital
employees or something crazy
like that, looking for peoplewith like mental health issues, nurses
who had maybe lost a child or
(35:51):
were unable to have children of their own,assuming
that this womanmight actually have been a nurse
because she seemed to knowso much about how the hospital functioned.
And, you know, thinking abouttaking a baby out of a glassed in nursery,
it's far easier to take a babyout of a mother's arms in the room.
So this had all been thought out.
So they were looking at
who would have known,who would have had this information,
(36:13):
going through 18 months of hospitalrecords of women
who had had stillborn babiesat the hospital,
wondering if maybe one of them
might have disguised themselvesand come in to take the baby.
Just.
And it was almost likeall of Chicago was mobilized.
So when Dorian Chester finally went home,they had the FBI staying with them.
They had two really good agents.
They had Bernie Carey and Ronald Minter,
(36:37):
and they were there to
tape calls, any ransom
phone calls that might come in, any tips?
Just to be ready for anything.
And my parents had a small apartment
so they would stay towards the backor downstairs.
And the and my dad's parent's house.
And whenever something would happen,they'd run upstairs and talk to him.
(36:59):
And I remember I actually got to talkwith Bernie Carey before he passed away.
Him and my parents becamereally good friends.
I mean, how could you not bond oversomething like this, right?
I mean, if he can't bond over a kidnapping,what can you bond over?
I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
But I remember himsaying that my mom would.
You know, he said that it was.
It was the most, most despairing,
(37:21):
just the saddest atmospherehe's ever been in in his entire career.
And he said he had a feeling back thenthat they would never find that child.
But remember that even through thethat emotional sadness
that my mom would bring himfood downstairs,
you know, she'd bake cookiesor bring them something.
And he said he loved that part.
You know, though,those fleeting moments of a
(37:44):
I'm not going to say happiness,but less despair.
Well, I think your mom is a caregiver.
And this was helping her
to channel her griefbecause she was able to care for someone.
Yeah.
Yeah, I agree totally.
And then after time went by, you know,Mother's Day came and went nothing.
No ransom calls, no tips.
(38:06):
A year goes by, nothing.
The FBI has pulled back.
They're they're working other cases.
Now the headlines. Stop talking about it.
You know, after the first year, they said,
you know, that the papers talkedabout the anniversary one year
since the kidnapping,you know, stuff like that.
It just, you know, kind of reopeningthat wound from my parents.
(38:26):
And then after a year or so, itkind of just faded away.
No one talked about it.
My mom never gave up hope.
You know, she just kept hoping one daysomething would happen, but nothing did.
Two years go by?
Nothing.
Shortly after two years,
they get a phone call
(38:46):
and that became
something bigger than we ever thought.
A phone call.
I'm glad you asked that question, Tracy,but unfortunately,
we're out of time,and the files are closed.
week and through the rest of the season,we are going to be on a journey
(39:07):
where we're going to be introduced
to a lot of different topicsthat pertain to this case.
Genetic genealogy is one of a new
and emerging sciencein finding people that have gone missing.
And we have a team memberswho are outstandingly good
genetic genealogistswho are going to be helping us
as we move forwardand helping people solve their mysteries.
(39:28):
Just when you
think you know what's going to happennext, you don't.
There are so many twistsand turns in this story.
Even I can't believe it.
And it's my story.
I'll see you next week. And.
The project files is created
and hosted by Paul Jack Fronczak,co-hosted by me, Tracey Hastings.
(39:52):
Produced and edited by Gavin Boughner.
Lead genetic genealogist Emily Ripper.
Lead historical researcherColleen Neuhart.
Social media manager Amy Morris.
original theme music written and producedby Paul Jack Fronczak and Rick Holland.
Thank you for joining us on the journey.
And please remember to subscribe.
In April 1964,
a woman dressed like a nursewalked into a hospital room in Chicago.
She told a new mother that the doctorneeded to see the baby for more tests.
The mother handed the baby over.
The nurse walked out of the roomand then vanished without a trace.
I set off one of the largest manhuntsin Chicago.
(00:22):
And that's only the beginning.
I'm Paul Fronczak.
I was that baby.
And I'm Tracey Hastings.
This season, the Fronczak Fileswill take you on a journey
following the twistsand turns of Paul's story.
Many of you may have heard my story.
Another podcasts or other TV showsand things like that.
(00:42):
But at the end of the day,you really don't know, Jack.
Welcome to the Fronczak Files.
(01:07):
You know,
I don't want the show to be just anotheraudio book,
you know, spitting out factsabout what happened.
The story was very tragic,and people know that.
But what they don't knowis what really happened behind the scenes.
How did it affect people?
How did people feel?
What, like my parentswhen they went through this?
(01:28):
What what do you think is going throughsomeone's mind?
All those things you can't get withjust the facts.
All right.
So are we going to start with 1974.
All right.
So Tracey from 1974 can you set the scene.
Sure.
Watergate. Big story that year.
The break in at the DemocraticNational Convention,
(01:50):
at the WatergateHotel, people trying to wiretap phones
and steal information to assist Nixonin his reelection campaign, Yeah, yeah.
movie guy.
I know you watch a lot of films.
Got a background in acting.
Top films of 1974.
The Godfather, Part two.
(02:11):
Oh. Yeah.
Excellent.
And so right about this time, you'reyou're what, like
I was 10 in 1974.
That's where this journey really started.
This is where my life kind of took.
There was a moviecalled Sliding Doors a while ago
about how your life could changein a matter of seconds
if you just take a different,different route.
(02:34):
And I decided to take a routethat changed my life forever.
And it's still being changed today.
Well All right.
So in 1974,
we already set the scene,but it was Christmas time.
My street was like a Rockwell painting.
I grew up in Oklahoma,on the south side of Chicago.
(02:55):
You know, mostly working class Irish,Polish.
And Christmas time was like,I used to get up early after a fresh snow
because it was cold out,but just to, you know,
walk up and down, you know,be the first footprints in that snow.
Look at all the other lights,because the sun hasn't come up yet.
And it's justthose memories are forever ingrained.
And that to me iswhat Christmas still is to this day.
(03:17):
Except I live in Las Vegasand there isn't much snow.
That lights.
Okay, so My dad was at work.
He was a machinist.
He worked for Foot Brothers.
They made
transmissions for helicopters and things,you know, for the for the military.
I a, you know,Department of Defense contracts.
(03:37):
My mom was upstairs doing somethingdishes, cleaning.
She was always cleaning.I mean, the house was.
But I mentioned a Rockwell painting.
It was really like that.
So I was downstairslooking for Christmas presents.
I thought, this is a great timeto maybe sneak inside that crawl space.
Kind of a scary crawlspace.
I actually had pictures on my
my board behind me, and actually,I think we'll put them on the website.
(03:59):
I moved the couch.
I opened a little threeby four crawl space door,
and I kind of scanned the entire room.
It was dark,
but I thought if they have presents forus, they're going to be in here.
Had you had. Hadyou looked in there before?
And now for Christmas presents.
You know, I'm I'm like,yeah, I've always been kind of a snooper.
(04:20):
You know, I like to I don't know why.
Maybe as I guesswe'll get to that later. Right.
I turn on the light and I scan around,looking in the back.
I saw a bunch of boxes and I thought,this is it.
This is the big score for Christmas.
So I kind of low crawledbecause the ceiling was really low
and there were spiderwebsand, you know, nails
sticking out of the the floor,which scary, right?
(04:44):
But I'm like, you knowwhat? Spiders are Christmas presents.
I think I'll take the I'll take the heat.Yeah.
So I crawled back and I found the boxesand I open the first box
and I didn't see Christmas presents.
I saw newspaper clippings and I was like,well, this is not Christmas.
What is this? Right. So I grabbed one.
I started looking at itand it was these things on the wall
(05:05):
right behind me, all these headlines frompapers all over the country,
but mostlyin Chicago, because that's where
this whole event happenedthat I was going to read about.
So I look at the first headline, it's,
Sad City Hunt drags on for missingkidnaped
child 10,000,
FBI agents or police,all looking for his kidnaped child.
(05:29):
I was like, okay,so something someone was kidnaped.
And then I saw a pictureof my mom and dad,
and they looked really, really sad.
They were, you know, crying.
And they looked likethey hadn't slept in a long time.
And it said the hunt for Paul.
Joseph.
Fronczak drags on and I'm like, okay,wait a minute.
That's me, Paul, Joseph Fronczak.
(05:50):
And those are my parents in that picture.
So I got real excited.
Okay, I kind of forgotabout the Christmas presents.
I grabbed one of the headlines
and I ran upstairs to my mom,
and I was all excited,and I just like, mom, what is this?
I mean, I read the headline.
She stopped what she was doing.She turned around.
She looked at me,she saw what was in my hand,
(06:11):
and her face went from, you know,a normal, kind person to this rage.
And she simply said,how dare you stoop around his house?
Those aren't your things.
I said, well, wait a minute,this is about me, right?
This kidnapping Paul Joseph Fronczak.
She said, you were kidnaped.
We found you. We love you.
(06:32):
That's all there is to talk about this.
And I was, like, completely deflatedbecause I was like, excite.
I'm ten years old.
This is likethe coolest thing I've ever seen.
And I know my parents.
When they said something, they meant itand I wasn't going to talk back.
And I thought, okay, so I walked away.
We never talked about it again,but I never forgot.
(06:54):
And I kept those paper clippings with me.
Yeah.
I'm looking at some of these newspaperclippings
that I'm imagining you sawwhile you were going through those boxes.
And I want to read some of it, but first,
why don't we hear a little bitabout your mom and dad,
since they're a big part of this storythis season.
And tell us about them.What kind of people are they?
(07:15):
So my mom was from a little towncalled Escanaba, Michigan,
in the U.P.,the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.
She was in a family of ten children.
They had two bedrooms.
They had an outhouse.
And if you Google,if you Google the weather in Escanaba
in the winter, it's winterfor like nine months a year with nothing
but snowand torrential, wind and just horrible.
(07:39):
So my mom told me stories growing upas a little girl, having to run outside
in the middle of the night to go,to go to the bathroom, and that outhouse.
And then she said later in life,when they upgraded,
they actually put in a bathtubin the basement.
But it wasn't a running water bath,so they had to fill it with jugs of water.
My, no.
(07:59):
I tell my daughter that and she's like,get out of here, you're making this up.
Here's a little house on the prairie.
So my mom was lucky because
she was the youngest out of ten,so she got to take her bath first.
But they they weren't changing the water.
So at the time, you were the 10th,you were probably like, you know what?
I think I'm good.
I don't need to get in there, you know?
(08:21):
Yeah.
So it was,it was a different, different time.
So my mom grew up with those values.
My dad, both his parents were from Poland,
so he grew up in Chicago's South Side.
He went in the military, came back,and he worked as a machinist.
And one day he grew up in Brighton Park,which is, you know, kind of a cool
(08:42):
a little, little side note,what was his name?
Ron Howard shot a movie called shot shot,
a movie called Backdraft,two blocks from my grandma's house.
They used the firehousethat was right there.
And my grandma would sneak over thereand sneak into the craft
service area and get all the food.
And she actually befriended
Ron Howard and his wife,which I thought was pretty funny.
(09:03):
So it was a quaint little neighborhood,Brighton Park.
My mom worked in the bank there.
She had moved from from Escanabato Chicago as quick as she could.
As soon as you get out of high school,
because nobody wantedto grow up in Escanaba,
right?
So herand her older sister moved to Chicago.
My mom got a job as aand working in the bank there.
And my dad, who lived about a block anda half away, we do all his banking there.
(09:27):
And one day he walked in the bankand he saw Dora,
and he's like, wow, this is, I gottaI've gotta go out with this girl.
So he asked her outand of course she said, no, no, no way.
Right.
So my dad, being the persistent guythat he is, he did that for five years,
kept trying to get her to go out with himright.
(09:51):
And my mom said that one day she was like,you know what?
What is that guy Chester?
He hasn't. I've seen him a couple of days.He hasn't asked me out.
So she had just bought a new car.She was driving down the street.
She saw him crossing the street,so she pulled over and yelled at him.
Hey, do you want to go out?
And Chester said, oh my God, yeah.
And they have been together ever since.
(10:14):
Okay. I love your mom.
What a strong woman. Like she.
She bought her a car, her offroom all by herself.
At this time, when, you know,it was not easy for women to buy things
on their ownwithout having a man on alone,
Yeah.
Yeah.
She's, She's stronger than you'll ever know.
(10:34):
Yeah.
So, Tracy, I think you actually havesome of the clippings
that I pulled out of the box.
one that I'm looking at here.
Dated Chicago, April 28th.
Headline baby stolen at a hospital.
And it reads, hundreds of policemencombed a Southside neighborhood house
to house today for a two day old baby boyabducted from his mother's arms.
(10:58):
And Michael Reesehospital, the mother, Mrs.
Dora Fronczak, at 28,
told police she was feeding her babywhen a woman dressed as a nurse entered
and took the infant, sayingit had to be returned to the nursery.
When a nurse asked Mrs.
Fronczak for the child.
A short time later, the abductionwas discovered and the police were called.
The infant is the only child of Mr.and Mrs.
(11:19):
Chester S. Fronczak Junior of Chicago.
Fronczak, an aircraft machinist,broke the news to his wife
that the baby, Joseph, had been stolen.
The hospital does not make a practiceof making footprints of newborn infants
that could handicap police.
If the infant is missing for some time.
All right, so that pretty much takes usinto what really happened.
(11:43):
So I think, Tracey,we should go back to 1964.
Sure will go back even a decade further.
The 60s.
Who wasn't confused in the 60s, right?
Time of profound change.
Social and political ideals were shifting.
The country is moving morefrom a traditional way of living
into a more modern way.
(12:04):
And growing pains are always hard.
And so the civil rights amendmentsallowed for integration in schools.
It made employment discrimination illegaland started us on the path
to equality in this country.
We were alsoin the middle of the Cold War.
And I remember this.
I remember as a kid doing,
(12:27):
Yeah, I remember that.
hallways and put your head up againstthe wall and shelter in place, like, yeah.
So, you know, we're giving
getting this false sense of securityfrom the adults around us
that if there's a nuclear war,you'll be fine.
Hide under your desk. And and music.
Number one song on
Let me guess.
(12:47):
I'm going to say the Beatles.
Which one?
Of course.
on April 26th at Michael Reese Hospital
in Chicago, Paul JosephFronczak was born to Chester
So of course, Chester and Dora,one of the start a family.
So they decided to have a child.
(13:07):
And when they had their first child,it was a stillborn.
So they were devastated.
I mean, nobody wants to
to not go home with the child
right after, after,you know, giving birth.
So they related to be pregnantand to be having Paul Joseph,
this is going to be like theirmy mom later said
(13:28):
they put all their hopesand dreams into this child.
So my mom gives birth.
It's a healthy, healthy boy.
She was 28.
Chester was my dad was 33.
Paul was 7 pounds, two ounces
in room 418.
Everything was fine.
April 26th April 27th.
(13:51):
Paul was in the nursery as what they.
But you know, back then when I had mydaughter out here, we never left the room.
We kept her.
And, you know, the next day wewe took her home
and we knew that she was our child backthen.
They would take the baby away, put itin a nursery with all the other babies.
And I mean to me right there,what could go wrong, right?
(14:11):
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
A lot of things can go wrongwith that situation.
And ironically,they had no security right?
Yeah, yeah.
(14:32):
So it was April 27th.
Paul was less than a day old.
The nurse brought Paul from the nurseryto Dora to, you know, for feeding time.
Everything's happy.
You know, Dora withmy mom was extremely happy.
You know, this isthis is everything she's wanted, right?
So she's feeding the baby.
(14:53):
This nurse walks in
and tells her that the doctor
needs to see the baby for more testing.
My mom thought it was strange
that a nurse would want to takethe baby away during feeding,
because it's such a precious timeand the baby needs to to eat right?
So she handed the baby overbecause it's a nurse in a hospital
(15:14):
and that's what you do.
She handed the baby over.
The nurse took the baby, left that room,went down a few flights of stairs,
and then jumped into a cab that was waiting outside and vanished without a trace.
The hospital
was totally unaware of what's going on.
As a matter of fact,it was almost an hour or so before that.
(15:36):
They noticed the baby was even missing.
And then to make it worse,they thought the baby was just misplaced.
So they decided to not tell Mrs.
Fronczak.
They decided to just spend a few hourslooking for the baby,
and the baby was taken about 10:00in the morning.
They didn't notifythe police til three in the afternoon,
(15:59):
and they didn't even tell Mrs.
Fronczak.
They called my dad at work and told him,your baby's gone.
You need to come and tell your wife.
My dad was at work and the machine shop
because back then there was no such thingas paternity leave.
He had to go and do his shift.
He was handingout cigars with his buddies,
(16:20):
and then he gets this call.
So he has to race down to the hospitalto tell his his wife, who's totally happy
because she's waiting, you know, for herchild to come back for the next feeding,
that the baby's not coming back,the baby's gone.
And then as soon as she said that,
all the FBIand the police just charged into the room,
you know, reportersjust snapping pictures and,
(16:43):
you know, screaming out questions and,you know, all this.
And my mom didn't knowwhat the hell was going on.
She had just been told the mosthorrible news that you can ever imagine.
And then she's flooded with the media.
And to this day,she really hates the media.
But now I don't. I don't blame her.
You know, it's ironic how we actually usethe media later down the road,
(17:04):
but it's the whole thing
happened and it was just it was bizarre,you know, within a couple of hours,
the FBI had scrambled all these policeofficers.
The postal workerstook 120,000 letter carriers.
They had them going door to door,
knocking on doors,trying to find this kidnaped baby.
Lee Kelsey was the cab driver
(17:26):
that happened to bethe unlucky one to pick up the Kidnaper.
When she had ordered the cab,she had told him to meet her
by a different,different wing, different name.
He said that's not Michael Reese Hospital.
So then she corrected herselfand said, meet me at the back doors.
She came out.
The baby, wrapped in the blanket,jumped in the cab.
He took her down to like 35th and Halsted.
(17:49):
She got out and he said he
saw her get into another car and take offand that was it.
She just vanished.
Later when he was interviewed.
This poor guy, I mean, he ended upbeing dragged in for all kinds of
whenever they they foundsomeone that they thought was the kidnaper
they'd brought him in to do aand I witness you know it, you know,
what would they call itwhen you recognize the person you know?
(18:13):
Is that the person?
And he's like, no, right.
So and anyway, so he said that he had seen
this lady numerous timesaround that neighborhood.
So she must have had somethingto do with that area,
whether she lived thereor was staying with somebody.
But I think back on, Lee Kelsey,
I feel bad for himbecause that really changed his life,
(18:33):
you know, plus probablythe feeling that he had inside,
knowing that he picked up a kidnaper.
That's just all, baby.
You know, that'sit's something that it's been really
it's been on my mind latelyand it's kind of hard to shake.
I mean, this this whole story has affectedso many people over the years.
And I found thatthe people never really got over it.
(18:54):
It's always been a part of them.
And that'sthat's what I was talking about.
When this is a journey, not just likean audio book full of facts,
but how it actually affects peopleand the human emotion
that's tied into something like thisto a tragedy.
so in addition to the human element
of having your child kidnapedand everyone else that's involved with it,
(19:16):
how about the failure of the institution?
very blatant and very obvious.
When we look back on itfrom through our lens from today,
as a high risk obstetrical nursefor 18 years,
I have seen security, for instance,evolve.
Just in the last 18 years,it has changed and improved.
It was nonexistent in 1964.
(19:40):
Today, babies are but printedwithin their first hour of life.
Babies are banded.
We have double bands on babies.
One goes on a wrist, one goes on an ankle.
We do that
because babies tend to lose weightin the first few days after they're born,
and they could wiggle themselvesout of one of those ID bands.
(20:01):
So we never want a babythat's not identified in some way.
Parents are given matching bandsor the mom, and then someone of her
choice has a matching bandnumbers, match names, match.
Everything has to line up.
And in orderfor us to hand a baby over to a mother,
and as far as culturally for a labor
(20:21):
and delivery, we no longer have nurseriesand most of our hospitals.
Babies stay at the bedside.
Now, everything is done at the bedside.
Bathing medications assessment.
And if the babies do need to go somewherefor more invasive testing,
a person is allowed to go with them.
An adult who has the band can accompanythat baby to whatever procedure
(20:44):
it might be, whether it's an X-rayor to the operating room.
Any of those type of things.
So, babies are also
given a security deviceon the opposite ankle,
which is a Bluetooth devicethat is hooked up to a security system.
And, babies have to be cleared to go downcertain hallways,
(21:04):
near certain doors, like,all stairwell doors are a trigger.
If a baby is wheeled near
a stairwell door,it will start sounding a very loud alarm.
Everyone on the floor scrambles,
to findwhat's called a code pink location.
Every hospital has plaques on the wall
(21:24):
that identify where those Code Pinklocations are, and staff
members are drilledregularly for how to find those places
And Tracey, can I ask what promptedCode Pink?
interesting story here is the kidnapping
Which one was that?
(21:44):
The Fronczak kidnapping.
started this whole processof slowly evolving
security for babies in the hospital.
And it was still slow.
This stuff didn't happen overnight.
It was still a slow process
because I think most people thoughtthis was an anomaly.
This is something that is unusual.
This is not the common, normal thing.
So it was still slow at that point.
(22:06):
And so hospitals are very diligentabout this now about keeping babies safe.
All labor and delivery units are locked.
We have badges that we have to badge inwith and the doors will unlock.
People are interviewed essentiallybefore they come on the floor.
Who are you here to see?
What room are they in? We want names.
We want location
so that we know that peoplethat are coming on to the floor
(22:27):
are actually familymembers, are people that
So you're saying out of this
horrible tragedy,something good actually came out of it?
Yeah.
That's fantastic.
there's some statistics,from the, center
for Missing and Exploited Children,about babies that are abducted.
(22:47):
They consider an infant abductionto be the abduction of any child
under one year of age.
And this,abduction can take various forms
from, being abductedfrom, like, a non-custodial parent,
to a stranger abduction,to being abducted from the hospital,
from their home or in a public place.
And there are several,
(23:10):
numbers that they have compiled,
total abductions of infantsrelated to health care
confirmed by the National Centerfor Missing and Exploited Children
from 1964to January of 2025, in the US, 1964
being this case, there's been 148
children taken from health care facilitiesin that Well.
(23:33):
you think about the thousandsand thousands and thousands of babies
have been bornsince then, 140 isn't a lot, but it's 140
Well said.
Yeah.
So thanks for those.
Those facts, by the way.
It's very eye opening.
It's very sad, but at least there's hope.
And I like that.
(23:55):
So the funny thing
about the nurse,a lot of people saw her, but
the hospital never really bothered to tryto get descriptions of her right away.
They were justthey just thought the baby was misplaced.
So when the police came in,they had their sketch artist, Otis Raffel,
come in and do a quick sketch of what,
a couple of people that saw thethe kidnapper
(24:18):
what she might look like 35 to 45 yearsold, around five, three.
Kind of brownish, grayishhair, graying hair, no scars.
Just a regular person. Could be anybody
but Joyce Doane, who was the patientnext to me?
Dora, my mom in the hospitalso that she looked like
(24:38):
a very uncaring personthat probably didn't like children.
And I thought that wasthat was pretty interesting, right?
And a lot of times people go, well, maybeit's someone who just wanted a child,
but someone with that description to meisn't somebody that wanted a child.
And she was seen for a couple of daysbefore the kidnapping
looking at different babies, almost likeshe was shopping for that perfect one.
(25:03):
And then when she said she found the onethat she thought would fit the bill, Paul,
then she decided, okay,I need to just grab this baby and run.
yeah, at the time, there was no such thingas profiling criminals.
That was not a done thing.
So people were relyingjust on their physical attributes to,
to see if people would recognize them.
But today, after,you know, years of of study
(25:27):
in this field and profiling,what type of a person would take a baby?
The National Centerfor Missing and Exploited Children,
they've released some information aboutwhat type of a woman could be an abductor,
and they typicallyare all of childbearing age.
They are most likely compulsive.
They rely a lot on manipulation,lying and deception
(25:50):
to get what they want,which I'm sure describes a lot of people.
They and.
And and people will say that they hearthese women
talk about the they've lost a babyor they're incapable of having one.
This becomes a big theme in their life.
They either have had a stillbirthor a miscarriage, or have been told that
they're infertile, and this could drivetheir need to adopt a child.
(26:14):
Oddly enough, they're often married,
or they're often collaboratingwith someone else.
And this can feed into their desireto give their companion a child
if they're unable to do so,they could be driven to take a baby
in order to please their partner.
This is something that the partner wants.
Oftentimes, they live in the communitywhere the abduction has taken place.
(26:36):
That's very common, which makes sense.
They would know the streets,they would know the ways to get away.
They would be ableto watch comings and goings.
They were
frequent visitors to their nurseryor the maternity units
at more than one health care facilityin the area prior to the abduction.
And they were asking a lot of questions.
And we know that this nurse had gone
(26:57):
into more than just your mother's roomto look at baby Paul.
She it was reportedthat she was in other rooms as well,
taking down blankets,looking at babies, turning on her heel
and walking out and saying nothing.
Like yousaid, I'm shopping for a baby. Like
They even had sightingsfrom different hospitals of the same lady.
Yeah.
(27:17):
right into that profile that they arescouting out other hospitals as well,
which is the place that's going to bethe easiest for me to take a baby.
They ask a lot of questionsabout procedures,
about the maternity floor layout.
They use fire exit stairwells, to escapebecause these are not guarded.
They're easy ways to get out.
And occasionallythese babies are ejected from the home
(27:40):
setting as well,but predominantly from a hospital.
And the abductions are usuallywell planned.
This is not somethingthat is done on the fly.
They have usually has targeted a baby,
and they're just going to waitfor their moment to take them.
And though this can describea lot of people, a lot of women,
in the setting of security
(28:02):
on a labor and delivery floor,this is a very dangerous person.
And I mean, just ballsy. Alone, right?
Just to be able to do that to me.
To talk to the mother face to face.
I need to take your baby.
And then just walk out.
Right. And I still feel bad.
There's Lee.
Kelsey's in the picture.
(28:22):
He's the cab driver right there.
I mean, I really feel bad for him andhis family that he had to go through that.
And he was just an innocent bystanderjust doing his job, you know,
trying to pay, trying to pay his bills,you know, picking up a fare.
Right.
And who knew that that little thingwould change his life and the way it did?
(28:43):
It's so crazy.
Yeah.
It's hard to imagine what your parentsmust have been feeling
at this point in timewith, losing a second baby.
And, you know, from what I understand,your dad wasn't a very.
Didn't seem like a very emotional guy.He didn't talk about his feelings
very much.
From what I understand about him.
(29:03):
But there's some really touching quotesin the newspaper that he was able to give
when reporters were asking him
how he felt about all of thisand what was happening.
And simple and to the point,he says, please take care of the baby
and return him, almost begging to
please bring that child back.
He also is quoted as saying,I just want to plead
(29:25):
for the kidnaper to take care of the babyand to return him.
She should give him formula.
There's a recipefor that in the newspaper.
Please take care of our baby.
So it just
sort of speaks to a parent's desireto care for their child.
And the child is not present.
And they're still agonizing over
You know, when one reporter in a storyactually said
(29:49):
that she was a mother for the second time,going home with no children
and just heartlessto even even put that in print, you know?
So Dora stayed in the hospitalfor five days after the kidnapping.
Five days.
She kept hoping that that whoever tookPaul would bring him back to the hospital.
(30:09):
And then eventually she said,you know what?
I've got to go home.
I've got to start living my life again.
Even though she didn't want to.
So I can't even imaginejust being in the hospital for five days,
you know?
You know, the thing that really got me waswhen Paul was taken
in the hospital, knewthey had a student nurse.
(30:29):
Mary transferred.
She was a student nurse,and they told her the baby's gone.
But do not let Mrs. fronczak know.
Take her throughall the classes, business as usual.
Because the baby's probablyjust misplaced.
We'll find himand everything will be fine.
But she knew her baby was gone,
and I got to meet her
(30:51):
and she hugged me.
And you could feel.
You could still feel it with her.
This has been with herher whole life that she did that.
And you can'tyou can't shake something like that.
You know, once again,
when something like this happens,it just doesn't affect 1 or 2 people.
It affects everyone.It's a chain reaction.
(31:12):
And when you're starting out
your nursing careerand you're told to lie to a patient
and then cover it up like that,that's that's insane.
And she she stayed a nurse
and she retired, you know,an amazing nurse, which is so fantastic.
And I was hoping to get her on the show,but it just didn't work out.
But just to meet her, you know,someone that was actually there living
(31:34):
through this, it's incredible, you know,and it gives you hope and humanity.
I. I reallyfeel for Mary as a nurse myself.
I feel how devastating that
must be to feel like you took part insomething like this.
That you didn't know enough to stop it.
You didn't realize it was happening.
(31:54):
And as a young nurse just starting out,like you said, to be asked to lie
to a patient that does not seta good precedent for a career
as an and, also that, you know, that whole subterfuge
just to keep up the lie, to keep, keepit propped up
so that they could try to recover thisbaby, that would never happen today.
(32:15):
And, you know,I mean, what you tell me about Mary.
I wish that I had been able to meet her.
I wish she was able to come on the showand be able to talk to us herself
and tell us your story.
If I could
speak to her,I would just like to tell her thank you.
Because even thoughshe experienced the trauma
of being a part of this event,and it carried it with her her whole life,
(32:37):
she was also an integral partof the change that took place in caring
for moms and babies and their safety,and that cannot be replaced.
And so it's, it's a lifelong burden thatshe has carried to have been part of it.
But it's also been huge for change.
Yeah. It's,
You're making me tear up a little bithere.
(32:58):
Yeah.
You know, and then you have to havethat aspect of it.
And then you actually have the whole cityof Chicago coming together, right?
Trying to find this babythat was kidnaped from a hospital.
200 policeand FBI descended upon the city.
Thousands of homes were searched.
They, I can't believe how much manpower
(33:20):
they invested into actually tryingto find this, this child.
You know, as a matter of fact,Susan Nolan reached out to me.
Her dad was actually John Norris.
He was a beat cop in Chicago,and he became a desk sergeant
his whole career.
I mean, he dealt with thousands of casesthroughout his career.
(33:40):
There was only one casethat he actually made part of his life.
He actually took it home with him.
And she actually, I'mgoing to show you this.
She actually gave me this file
that he kept in his in his home,
because this is the actual police fileon the front of that kidnapping.
(34:02):
And inside, it's just
I mean, this is the original picturesthat the hospital took apart.
They didn't have time to blood type homeor get a footprint,
but they had time for thisglamor shot, right?
Yeah.
And,
yeah, more on that later.
(34:22):
But I just to me, I spent a whole dayjust going through these files, you know.
And here's the thing.
This isn't like today's police work.
Everything is handwritten.
Everything.
Or typed very poorly.
You know, just the typing.
I mean, just the the time alonethat they took to just to type this stuff.
(34:46):
And you can see,I mean, there's just pages and pages
of all these accounts. It
they had fake ransom notices going in.
You know, the,
the cops said they were chasing down
people that,you know, were trying to get ransom money.
People would phone in tips about,you know, this woman was found in a subway
(35:07):
platform and subway, you know, they hadthe, the, the the trains in Chicago.
And of course, wheneverthey brought someone in to a station,
they had to bring Lee Kelseyand the cab driver again to, to do I
try to identify them.
Yeah.
Over andover and over and all these things.
It's just it's to me,it's just mind boggling
(35:29):
how much effort they put in itto try to find this.
This kidnaped child.
Yeah.
When I was reading about it, you know,I was reading like, numbers, like,
that,they were looking at like 2600 hospital
employees or something crazy
like that, looking for peoplewith like mental health issues, nurses
who had maybe lost a child or
(35:51):
were unable to have children of their own,assuming
that this womanmight actually have been a nurse
because she seemed to knowso much about how the hospital functioned.
And, you know, thinking abouttaking a baby out of a glassed in nursery,
it's far easier to take a babyout of a mother's arms in the room.
So this had all been thought out.
So they were looking at
who would have known,who would have had this information,
(36:13):
going through 18 months of hospitalrecords of women
who had had stillborn babiesat the hospital,
wondering if maybe one of them
might have disguised themselvesand come in to take the baby.
Just.
And it was almost likeall of Chicago was mobilized.
So when Dorian Chester finally went home,they had the FBI staying with them.
They had two really good agents.
They had Bernie Carey and Ronald Minter,
(36:37):
and they were there to
tape calls, any ransom
phone calls that might come in, any tips?
Just to be ready for anything.
And my parents had a small apartment
so they would stay towards the backor downstairs.
And the and my dad's parent's house.
And whenever something would happen,they'd run upstairs and talk to him.
(36:59):
And I remember I actually got to talkwith Bernie Carey before he passed away.
Him and my parents becamereally good friends.
I mean, how could you not bond oversomething like this, right?
I mean, if he can't bond over a kidnapping,what can you bond over?
I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
But I remember himsaying that my mom would.
You know, he said that it was.
It was the most, most despairing,
(37:21):
just the saddest atmospherehe's ever been in in his entire career.
And he said he had a feeling back thenthat they would never find that child.
But remember that even through thethat emotional sadness
that my mom would bring himfood downstairs,
you know, she'd bake cookiesor bring them something.
And he said he loved that part.
You know, though,those fleeting moments of a
(37:44):
I'm not going to say happiness,but less despair.
Well, I think your mom is a caregiver.
And this was helping her
to channel her griefbecause she was able to care for someone.
Yeah.
Yeah, I agree totally.
And then after time went by, you know,Mother's Day came and went nothing.
No ransom calls, no tips.
(38:06):
A year goes by, nothing.
The FBI has pulled back.
They're they're working other cases.
Now the headlines. Stop talking about it.
You know, after the first year, they said,
you know, that the papers talkedabout the anniversary one year
since the kidnapping,you know, stuff like that.
It just, you know, kind of reopeningthat wound from my parents.
(38:26):
And then after a year or so, itkind of just faded away.
No one talked about it.
My mom never gave up hope.
You know, she just kept hoping one daysomething would happen, but nothing did.
Two years go by?
Nothing.
Shortly after two years,
they get a phone call
(38:46):
and that became
something bigger than we ever thought.
A phone call.
I'm glad you asked that question, Tracy,but unfortunately,
we're out of time,and the files are closed.
week and through the rest of the season,we are going to be on a journey
(39:07):
where we're going to be introduced
to a lot of different topicsthat pertain to this case.
Genetic genealogy is one of a new
and emerging sciencein finding people that have gone missing.
And we have a team memberswho are outstandingly good
genetic genealogistswho are going to be helping us
as we move forwardand helping people solve their mysteries.
(39:28):
Just when you
think you know what's going to happennext, you don't.
There are so many twistsand turns in this story.
Even I can't believe it.
And it's my story.
I'll see you next week. And.
The project files is created
and hosted by Paul Jack Fronczak,co-hosted by me, Tracey Hastings.
(39:52):
Produced and edited by Gavin Boughner.
Lead genetic genealogist Emily Ripper.
Lead historical researcherColleen Neuhart.
Social media manager Amy Morris.
original theme music written and producedby Paul Jack Fronczak and Rick Holland.
Thank you for joining us on the journey.
And please remember to subscribe.
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