August 12, 2025 • 56 mins
This week on the Functional Tennis Podcast I’m joined by John Williams, coach and mentor to world number 1 doubles player Taylor Townsend.
John’s approach to coaching is anything but conventional. He doesn’t just build tennis players, he builds characters. In this chat we talk about the characteristics he looks for in players, how his outside-the-box thinking shapes their development, and why mindset and life skills are just as important as technique.
Key Topics
🎾 The traits that separate good players from great ones
🧠 Why developing character is as important as developing skills
💡 How to think differently about tennis and avoid a conformist mindset
📈 Lessons from coaching top pros and upcoming juniors
Quote
“I’m not just coaching forehands and backhands, I’m building people.”
From guiding top pros to developing juniors, John shares invaluable lessons for players, coaches, and parents who want to understand what it truly takes to succeed in the sport.
Enjoy
Fabio
This podcast is sponsored by ASICS. ASICS is a Japanese company founded in 1949 to give more people the opportunity to experience how sports and movement can have a positive impact on mental well-being.
To learn more about ASICS visit their website here: https://www.asics.com/nl/en-nl/sports/tennis/
Find us on Social Media:
Instagram: Instagram.com/FunctionalTennis
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:24):
Welcome to the FunctionalTennis Podcast brought to you by
ASICS Tennis and I'm yourhost, Fabio Molly and I bring you
insights and lessons fromplayers, coaches, parents and experts
who are ingrained in the worldof high level tennis. This week I'm
joined by John Williams, coachand mentor to world number one doubles
player, Taylor Townsend. Johnbrings a non traditional view to
(00:45):
tennis coaching on and off thecourt, focusing not just on strokes
and strategy, but on buildingstrong character in his players.
We chat about thecharacteristics he looks for in players,
what it takes to stay in thegame long term, and why building
trust and strong value mattersmore than quick wins. His unique
insights into playerrelationships, emotional resilience
(01:07):
and long term growth make thisa powerful listen for coaches, parents
and ambitious players alike.Here's John. John, welcome to the
Functional Tennis Podcast. Howare you?
I'm doing well, thanks Fabio.It's good to be here.
I'm super pumped to find outabout you, how you got into tennis
and the great work you've beendoing, especially recently now with
(01:31):
the headlines and yeah, sotell us, first of all, maybe how
did you get into tennis and abit about your background that led
you to getting into tennis.
Sure. So 1997, I started inthe fitness industry, became a personal
trainer, worked at a couple ofcountry clubs in New York and then
(01:52):
eventually opened my ownfacility while I was still working
at a country club. So I wasdoing double duty there and I did
that probably for about twoand a half years and then we moved
from New York to Atlanta andonce I moved to Atlanta, opened a
couple of gyms, I've ownedseveral facilities down there and
(02:14):
then really made the move intosports performance. Once I did that,
I kind of never looked back,got involved in sports performance
and became the physicalconditioning guy and that was my
early introduction to tennison the junior level. Started working
hand in hand with some coachesin and around the Atlanta area and
(02:38):
happened to be fortunateenough to connect with some really
good ones who had some playersthat went on to do some really good
things in junior tennis and Iwas the guy kind of powering their
physical behind their on courtperformances. So I'm a very invasive,
all inclusive type of person.So when I'm in, I'm all the way in
(03:00):
and if I'm not in, then I'mnot in at all. So when I got involved
in tennis I wanted to learneverything there was to learn about
the sport, both as a playerand I grew up playing racquetball,
which I don't know if you arefamiliar with that. Okay.
I think Ireland has some goodplayers in racquetball, as far as
I know.
(03:20):
Okay. Okay. So I grew upplaying racquetball, so I was familiar
with the concept of, you know,racket sports, and that was kind
of the. The. The fuel that ledto my intrigue. So I started spending,
you know, more and more timearound the tennis courts, watching
lessons, listening to whatcoaches were telling players to do,
(03:43):
and then seeing what theplayers were able to do with that
information. Lookingpredominantly for any physical limitations
or areas that I could be ofservice in any, you know, any. Any
area that I could contributeto their improvement. And being around
that, I gained a massiveeducation in how to play the game,
(04:05):
how to look at the game, youknow, the components involved in
the game, understanding thegame from, you know, from a tennis
coach's perspective, becausethat's who I was essentially shadowing.
So fast forward we come tonow. You know, I've been in Atlanta
for four or five years. I havesome of the top juniors in the country
(04:29):
that I'm working with, andreputation has really spread now.
I'm working with a lot moreplayers at various levels. I have
players getting ready to go onto university, getting scholarships,
things like that. So that'show I essentially got involved in
(04:52):
tennis and became kind of afigurehead in. In. Involved in the
sport.
So it wasn't an overnightchange. You've been gradually building
and building and building and learning.
I say it was an overnightsuccess that only took about 10 years
to happen.
Yeah, I think that's mostovernight successes, isn't it, in
(05:14):
Atlanta? Robbie Ginepri, doyou ever work in that academy? That's
the only one I know in Atlanta.
Gotcha. You know, a funnystory, so Robby, when he had his
big run at the US Open, myreputation was pretty well known
at that point in time. So Iwas going to a Cairo that also treated
(05:36):
Robbie. And this Cairo used todo a lot of work with the Atlanta
Falcons. So his name was Dr.Dave. So, Dr. Dave, shout out to
Dr. Dave, I hope you andSherry and the kids are doing well.
Dr. Dave was working withRobbie, and he was like, you know,
Robbie could really usesomeone like you in his corner. And
I said, okay, cool. I'm happyto. Happy to chat with him. And for
(06:00):
whatever reason, thatconversation never took place. But
I always thought it was prettycool that, you know, I could say,
yeah, somebody was trying toconnect me with Robbie, and it just
didn't work out. But, yeah, soall good.
That's pretty cool. No that'spretty cool. But more recently, you've
(06:21):
been working with Taylortownsend Now, roughly five years,
is it.
We've been working togethersince 2017.
Okay. Longer. Longer. Soyou've had before pregnancy and after
pregnancy. You've been there.
Exactly.
Okay. How many years? How oldis her boy now?
He's four.
He's four. Okay. So. Andyou've evolved more into it. You're
(06:44):
a coach now. You're like, yes.So how, when you look at a player,
a new player, I show you aplayer, this guy's going to be a
top. He's top player in thecountry, or what do you look for
in a player? What. What sortof. I'm interested to hear how your,
you know, your background hasshaped how you think about when you
see a player. First.
(07:05):
Sure. The first thing I thinkabout and I look for is what does
their work ethic look like?The second thing I look for is why
are they doing this? What is.Does this bring them joy? Is this
an itch that they can't everseem to scratch, but they keep trying
because they love it thatmuch? You know, and then I look at
(07:30):
what the structure is aroundthem. Are they. Are they from a heavily
involved but not necessarilysupportive family? Are they from
a minimally involved butheavily supported family? Those things
matter. And I look at that tokind of establish what kind of personality
(07:52):
characteristics and attributesthere are going to be present in
this player. Because we are,as much as we like to think that
we break the mold and, youknow, are able to move beyond a different
orbit, we are a product of ourenvironment. So if our environment
is messy, if our environmentis heavy, if our environment is filled
with, you know, criticismsand. And, you know, negativity, then
(08:18):
we are going to develop inresponse to that.
Environment, what are theideal characteristics? So if you're
looking for your perfectplayer to work on, I know the results
may not end up being perfect,but from a building, from day one,
you say, okay, this player hasall the characteristics and attributes
that I think will make a greatplayer. What are they? If we can
(08:40):
package them up?
Yeah, that's a great question.So it's actually why I wrote a book
on the five attributes of Champions.
I haven't read it yet. Ihaven't read it yet.
Looking at it. Yeah, we'llmake sure we get you a copy. So in
the Champions code, I actuallybreak down all five of the attributes
that I see as commonalitiesamongst all high achievers, regardless
(09:04):
of what domain they. Theyoperate in. The first thing is Mental
toughness and mental toughnesscan take a couple of different shapes,
but essentially we want tomake sure that you have the ability
to stay mentally tough andengaged when things don't go your
(09:26):
way, when you are faced withadversity, whatever that looks like.
The second thing would be, Iwould say, man, if I was looking
at a kid, what I would belooking for. Yeah, definitely. Discipline
and work ethic, that would benumber two. Because if you don't
(09:48):
have the work ethic, you'renever going to push yourself, regardless
of what was going on aroundyou. So you can be the best coach
in the world, you can be partof the best team in the world, but
if the individual is notwilling to push themselves harder
than you are willing to pushthem, it's going to be really tough
for them to get a hundredpercent of their performance out
(10:10):
of them. Right. The secondthing is the discipline. That second
part is the discipline.Because what happens when you're
not around, that's wherediscipline kicks in. Right. A lot
of players are really good atfollowing instructions. Yes. So,
and so does whatever I tellthem to do. But when I'm not around
(10:30):
to tell them to do it, whatare they doing? So are you doing
your mobility work on yourown? Are you making sure that you're
getting your eight to ninehours of sleep every night? Are you
being diligent with yournutrition? Whether it's a diet for
body composition or we'relooking to optimize your performance.
(10:50):
So we want to make sure thatyour post workout nutrition is good
or your pre workout nutritionis good. That's all discipline. That's
not somebody standing next toyou saying, do this, do that, do
this, do that. We can't alwaysbe in the same category as Novak,
where you have somebody handyou a meal and say, eat this now.
(11:11):
Hand you a shake and say,drink this now. Right.
There's only a couple ofplayers in the world, there's only
a handful that can have that.
And it's very interestingbecause if you look at it like financially,
there are quite a few playersthat could afford that, but they
choose not to have that. And Ialways sit back and I wonder why,
(11:31):
because I would definitely dothat. Decision fatigue. Just eliminate
that. Decision fatigue.
It's a bit like people whowear the same clothes every day.
It's one less decision theyhave to do every day. Do you think
that Novak would, where he hasthis help, if he didn't have the
help, he'd still be doingthat, or do you think he wouldn't
(11:53):
Be.
I think he would be because Ithink he identifies that it's a priority
for him because it, itradically impacts his performance,
how well he would be able toexecute. I think that's where the
question mark comes in, youknow, and I think that's, that's
the difference. Right. The,the champions control what they can
control and he can controlthis. So it's, he knows it's the
(12:17):
same all the time. Like it'salways done at a high level every
single time. And it doesn'trely, it doesn't matter how busy
he gets with, you know, publicengagements or sponsorship obligations
or this or that.
Yeah.
Or even actually the playingof tennis.
Yeah.
It doesn't matter that his,his recovery level, all of those
things stay consistent theentire time. And that is the key
(12:39):
to long term success.
I think I'm breaking into yourpoints here, but I think a better
example this is Taylor, whohaving a kid is not easy. I know
we've three kids. My diettrain has fallen apart with three
kids between sleep and you'rejust not. It's another fight you
have to do with yourself andjust like you just give in to that
fight. I feel sometimes it'sgood, sometimes bad, but consistency
(13:02):
isn't there throughout theyear. So how does somebody like Taylor
would a young kid the past fewyears be able to, you know, maintain
their energy for training, eatright, you know, be mentally in a
positive place when you're notsleeping well because your kid's
up in the middle of the night?How have you worked with her to help
her combat this? Or is thisjust something she's really good
(13:23):
at naturally?
That's a great question. Iwouldn't say, I wouldn't say I've
ever met anyone who is reallygood at, at managing parenting naturally.
I think there are people whoare really good at adapting fast,
if that makes sense.
Yeah, yeah.
And it sounds kind of like I'msplitting hairs and being really
(13:45):
semantic about it, but I don'tthink you could be really good at
something naturally that youhave no concept of what it actually
involves. And you parenthoodis like that, you know, after you've
had your first one, then youknow what's involved. Right. So you
kind of know what's coming or,or what could be.
But two is always harder thanone, you know, it's a different,
(14:07):
the second one is not thesame. It's different game. It's a
completely different sport.And then three is a different sport.
And then I'm sure four is aswell, so. But yeah, you're right,
yes. Adaptable is a good word.
So I think. I think in. In hersituation, going back to the attributes,
one attribute that she and Ihave worked really hard to cultivate
(14:32):
in her is the ability to buildand maintain a team. And, you know,
we talked about this when.When she was pregnant and discussing
her return to play, her returnto competition, and I said, listen,
you're going to need to have acouple of people in play, and one
(14:54):
of those people has to be acaregiver, because you can't be in
two places at one time. Andyou want to make sure that your son.
Well, child. We didn't know hewas a boy at that point, but your
son, your child is going tohave consistency and some sense of
normalcy, because you don't.You don't. So that's one of the other
(15:23):
attributes that I think ishighly valuable, not just for Taylor,
but even for a junior athlete.Understanding that building a team
needs to be a primary focus,and there's a developmental curve
in there as well. Because ifyou're 12, what do you know about
(15:43):
team building? You know, youmight be part of a team, but. But
you. You really have verylittle exposure on how to build a
team. But if you start askingthose questions and that. That's
introduced to you, like, hey,what do you really like about the
way that, you know Fabiocoaches? Well, I like that he gives
me tough things to do, but henever yells at me, and he always
(16:07):
asks me a lot of questions.You know what I mean? So you. You
ask them questions so thatthey start thinking about the attributes
that they like in others, andthat becomes the building block or
the foundation for how they'regoing to build their team. You see
this a lot. I'll just add thislittle bit and then I'll shut up.
(16:29):
No, no.
It's interesting.
You see a lot at the prolevel, and there's been some recent
movement now. Players andcoaches coming together, but also
going apart. Right. And you'relike, wow, did you. Before you picked
this coach to work with, didyou identify the attributes that
(16:51):
they have? Do you actuallyknow who it is you're working with,
or are you basing it off thePersona and the cv? Because those
two things are radicallydifferent. I've been saying for a
very long time, we all need tocheck pedigrees, and the pedigree
needs to be the history. So ifyou're looking at someone's performance,
(17:17):
you're evaluating theirperformance, not just their associations.
What did their presence do tochange or Move the needle of the
person that they're workingwith or the group that they're working
with. Right. That's how we evaluate.
That's is. That's what youhave to understand is. I'm just a
(17:39):
little bit lost. You're goneover my head now a little bit. No,
no. Which is, which is. Whichis not a bad thing or a good thing.
You're sleep deprived. That'swhat we'll blame.
No, I'm not so bad today. I'mnot so bad today. No, but you mean
that's what we need to lookout for or that's what we look out
for and it's wrong?
No, that's what we need tolook out for. We need to look at
(18:01):
the history. We need to lookat historical evidence. We need to
put aside the hype, thehyperbole, the marketing and the
Persona aspect of it. That maybe what attracts you there. You know,
it's like a relationship. Ohyeah, right. The visual happens first.
Yeah.
But if there's no substancethere, if you can't carry on a conversation
(18:23):
with the person, then I don'tthink, you know, a 30 year, 50 year
marriage prospect is probablynot that person will make. So it
becomes really important tounderstand really what it is we're
looking at and then making adecision based on that, not what
somebody tells you becausethey really like that person.
(18:46):
True. We're sucked into thosevisual things so quickly, aren't
we? Even you may think it'sdone at an ordinary level, but it's
also at a high level, like thebest in the world. Do it get sucked
in as well?
Correct.
And they, and they think, butyou're right, the well runs dry pretty
quick.
Exactly.
Okay, so getting back to somemore characteristics that you're
(19:09):
looking for in this idealplayer to start off with parents
a big thing. I know you talkabout guidance and you know, helping
how they know what it's liketo build a team. But surely you need
parents at a young age areinvolved as well and they're making
decisions until the kid's 18most of the time where they're getting
(19:30):
in coaches or maybe they'rethe coach in many cases. So I think
you did mention foundations atthe start. And this whole family,
what's their commitment? Soideal parents, what are they look.
Like committed to the successof the child. And success in this
(19:52):
regard I'm defining as thefacilitation of every opportunity
for the child to accomplishtheir goals and dreams. That's success
as an outsider. That's all youcan do. So if you tell me you want
to be number one in the worldon the ATP tour, I might say, fabio,
(20:18):
have you really thought aboutthis? Right. So, not that I'm trying
to dissuade you, I'm trying todetermine how much you thought, like
deep thought and investigationyou've done into this goal and objective,
because that's going todetermine whether or not it's, it's
just something you're saying,or is it something that you feel
(20:40):
and you're willing to dedicateyour life to? Once we've identified
that, then I would say, okay,well, here's how I think I can help
contribute to that and I'lllist the things, but those things
are only going to befacilitating opportunities for you
(21:04):
so I can get you in greatshape. That's going to allow you
to be able to play the gameyou want to play the way you want
to play it, give youlongevity, because hopefully you'll
be resistant to injury. Andthose opportunities may provide you
the other opportunities to golong and go far and climb the rankings
(21:26):
and all those other things.Things that I can't control. Right.
So parents, bringing it backto your question, parents, especially
in the beginning, they're thefacilitators. They're the facilitators
and they're the, themaintainers of motivation and support.
(21:46):
So as a parent of a 12 yearold that aspires to, you know, play
at the highest level of thesport, whatever the sport is, I'm
saying if you're willing tocommit to doing the work on and off
court, if you're willing todiscipline yourself in the manner
(22:07):
that it is required in orderfor you to constantly make progress.
We're not trying to becomeworld champion or, you know, number
one in the world overnight. Soit's a, it's a, it's a process, it's
a time, right? So we need tomake sure that you're going to be
consistent in doing the thingsthat will aggregate over time and
(22:28):
lead you there. But if you'rewilling to do that, then I'll take
you to pr, I'll take you totraining, I'll pick you up, I'll
pay for the lessons, I'll buythe shoes, I'll do this, I'll do
that, I'll do this, I'll dothat. Right. So those are all the
tangible things that are onthe parental side of support once
you guys have engaged in thatcontract. Because it is an agreement.
(22:52):
They have responsibilities andobligations, and you have responsibilities
and obligations. Okay? So theother thing, the other side of the
coin, the intangibles, is thesupport side and the encouragement
side. And that is, I think,probably the most misunderstood area
(23:12):
that exists, especially inyoung. Developing young players,
young athletes. And that iswhere the parents understand that
your primary role as a parentneeds to be support, encouragement,
but also the maintaining of astandard. And that standard doesn't
(23:39):
waver. It doesn't. It doesn'tvacillate whether they are playing
well or whether they areperforming horribly. The standard
is still the standard. That'show they understand the relationship
and identity between. This iswho I am. Antennas is just what I
(24:03):
do. The same way as a plumberis not defined by how many drains
he can unclog. Right. He's aplumber. That's just the job that
he does. But who he is couldbe any number of different things.
And I think that separation ofidentity begins in the home with
(24:26):
the parents in situations like this.
Yeah, it's. You can see howit's tough for parents that kids
that age where they want tobe, you know, more invest and maybe
invested, not the right word,but they're sucked in too much, and
then their mood becomesdependent on how this kid's doing
that the kids upset, and it'sjust downhill from there. So, nice
point on the just having aconstant enthusiasm. Where it's good
(24:52):
or bad, it's constant.
That's where, you know, I usethe expression a lot. You know, I'm
not going to ride the rollercoaster with you. And. And what that
means is, you know, as acoach, when I'm sitting on the sidelines
watching a match, if thingsare going really well or if they
aren't going really poorly,then I have to still be the navigator.
(25:19):
I still have to be the eye inthe sky. I still have to see three
miles out, and I have to lookat all of those things, not just
what I'm being blinded byright now. And the player, of course,
is occupied with what'sdirectly in front of their face,
and that sometimes limitstheir vision. They can't see beyond.
(25:40):
Right. So if I'm on the rollercoaster with you, then I'm also.
I also suffer from thatlimited tunnel vision. But if I'm
not on the roller coaster withyou, then I can see. Hey, Fabio,
look out. There's another.There's a big drop coming.
You're air traffic control.
Exactly, exactly. And that iswhere parents really have a difficult
(26:04):
time. Because they're soclose, it's very difficult for them
to create separation andSpace. And this is where, this is
where it becomes criticallyimportant, in my opinion, for parents
to understand what attributesthey have naturally and then look
to improve those attributes,improve on those attributes and move
(26:28):
toward, you know, attributesthat are going to complement the
relationship, complement thesituation, complement the success
and growth, development oftheir player.
And obviously you work withTaylor full time now. Do you still
work with juniors at the moment?
I do. I consult for a fewjuniors. You know, this, my, my 9
(26:49):
to 5, my full time job kind ofkeeps me out of pocket a lot.
Yeah.
At least 24, 25 weeks a year.So it makes it difficult to do a
lot of face to face. Butthanks to technology, I'm able to
make myself available withjuniors that I work with. As a matter
of fact, I have, I have one ofthe juniors that I worked with. I
(27:11):
started working with him whenhe was 14. He's actually here this
week acting as a hittingpartner for us, so.
Right.
Yeah, it's pretty cool whenyou work.
With these juniors is do youmake it a point to speak to the parents,
to understand the parents soyou better understand. It's better
for you if you understand themand then if anything has to be said,
you can say it.
(27:32):
Yes. Before I work withanyone, adult or otherwise, I have
to understand who it is I'mworking with. And that's my vetting
and evaluation process. And Ithink for me it has eliminated a
lot of issues. So I knowimmediately after having a discussion
(27:55):
or two with a parent, I knowtheir positioning, I know how they're
going to be involved. I knowif they're going to be overbearing,
I know if they're going to be,hey, standoff, I'm handing them over
to you because I trust you andso on and so forth. I know where
they're going to fall and thatway I know how to manage them. I
also know how to leverage themif I need to bring them in strategically
(28:18):
as part of the team and havethem provide benefit that I may not
be able to or that the childwill only receive from them. Yeah.
So no surprises?
I try to eliminate surprises.
And when you first, when youmade the decision to work with Taylor,
what characteristics in herstood out? You're like, whoa, she's.
(28:40):
This is amazing.
That's a great question. Firstand foremost, her work ethic. Second,
her discipline when it comesto what she's willing to do. She'll
do anything I ask her to do atpretty much any time. I could call
(29:03):
her up at 2 o' clock in themorning and Say let's. I'm, I'm dead
serious. I could call her upat 2:00 in the morning, wake her
up from a, a great night'ssleep and say, we need to go downstairs
and do some cardio. And she'llsay, okay, give me 20 minutes. That
is extreme. But that's thelevel of dedication that's required
(29:26):
if you want to really becomeyour best, whatever that means, wherever
that ends up, right? But ifyou really want to become your best,
you have to be willing tosacrifice whatever you have right
now for what you can become.The second thing is the discipline
that I mentioned. And if I sayI need you to do this, this, this
(29:49):
and this and this, then shewill make sure that all of those
boxes are ticked. Nowsometimes she gets the order wrong.
That's okay, that's okay.
But she will make sure everybox has been ticked. And I don't
have to micromanage, which isit's trust based on her consistent
(30:15):
level of performance. Sobecause she's performed. This is
what we were talking aboutearlier, right? Looking at the pedigree,
the history, the track recordof result, if she hadn't proven to
me that she will consistentlydeliver on the discipline side, then
I would have to micromanage alittle bit more to make sure that
it's getting done. But she hasproven that, so I don't have to micromanage.
(30:40):
I can assign it and then thatfrees me up to then keep looking
ahead and move on.
And what have you had to workon? What were areas you say, okay,
we need to be a little bitbetter at this.
Oh, well, that's easy. Taylorcame from a super deconstructive
(31:00):
environment. Everything aboutTaylor's environment basically centered
around you're not good enough.And it gave the impression that nothing
was ever going to be goodenough. There was an, there was never
a point that she couldaccomplish anything and it would
(31:23):
be, wow, you're great, John.
Was this from herself or from.Exterately, both. Okay.
Largely from externally, whichshe then adopted because when you're
in it for 14 years, you're aproduct of your environment, right?
So a lot of that negative selftalk, a lot of that self criticism,
(31:45):
a lot of the, you know, lackof fulfillment with successes and
accomplishments, all of thosethings were baked in, heavily baked
in. And when you're in a sportthat only rewards success, it's very
difficult to find the silverlining when you think you're constantly
(32:10):
in a rainstorm. So that wasthe first thing understanding that
that's where she came from andthen putting mechanisms in place
so we could, we could startunraveling a lot of those things.
Nice. Yeah, it's interesting.And how does it feel like this week
there for her to be, you know,the world's number one doubles player,
(32:34):
first mother to ever be femalenumber one. But to be the world's
one doubles player, how doesthat feel to her? I don't know. Not
a question I can ask her, but.And how does it feel to you?
Yeah, good question. So superbig accomplishment. Obviously, it's
always nice being recognizedand acknowledged for your accomplishments.
(32:59):
Right? Everybody. Maslow'shierarchy of needs, social acknowledgement
and acceptance is on there.You want to be admired by your peers
for your accomplishments andyour work. That's phenomenal. However,
we already knew who the worldnumber one doubles player, who the
(33:21):
best doubles player was in theworld. We already knew that internally.
We already knew that. It justwasn't, it wasn't a specific target
for something that we wereaiming for. And that makes it all
the more special. It justconfirms that she's living into what
(33:44):
we already knew. It just tooka while for the rankings to catch
up, but we already knew and wetreat it as such, like we already.
Okay, this is great. It'sgreat for me from my perspective,
it's great to have her nameetched in the record books for yet
another thing. Fantastic. Butwe're still not done. We still have
(34:10):
goals and objectives that weare hyper focused on that we have
not hit yet, and that's wherewe are. So going back to my roller
coaster analogy, because Ithink it applies here as well. We
never get too high on thehighs and we never get too low on
the lows, and that allows usthe ability to move.
(34:34):
Yeah, I, I think I'm. I justget lost a little bit. You know,
the way sometimes you hearplayers saying they look back and
they go, I should havecelebrated those milestones more.
Yeah, now you're living itright now. You're like, okay, we're
well done. You know, we shouldhave been here. We're here now. We're
going to keep on with so muchmore to do. But it is a massive milestone,
(34:55):
being the world's best,officially. I know you knew the insight.
And it depends obviously onwhat type of person you are. But
you hear it quite a bit. Iwon't say so often. We hear quite
a bit. We should haveappreciated the moment a bit longer.
I know that. Then you hear thetennis, you know, next in Canada
this week. So you don't havetime, you got to stay professional.
What, what's your thought onthat? When you hear players say,
(35:17):
oh, we should have celebrateda little bit more.
I think taking the time,celebration is relative. I think,
right? Some people need to goout and have a big fanfare, like,
how do you celebrate yourbirthday versus how do I celebrate
my birthday? We both celebrateit, right? But you may go out to
a pub with your friends,family, you may have a big, you know,
(35:40):
ta da. And me, I'm at thebeach by myself in solitude for two,
three hours, reflecting andsetting intentions for the upcoming
year, right? We both celebrateit. It's different. Are we both fulfilled?
Let's hope so. I know that Iam the way that I celebrate, and
(36:01):
I hope that you are the waythat you celebrate. And I think that's
the difference. There's not aone size fits all for how we process
and accept successes andaccomplishments, how we appreciate
the milestones that we areable to, you know, accomplish in
our lives and in our careers.But if we take the time and do it
(36:24):
intentionally, that makes abig difference. Glazing over. This
is a sport where a lot ofthings get glazed over very quickly,
right? Two weeks from now, howmany people are going to be talking
about this?
No, nobody. Nobody.
Right? But that doesn't meanit doesn't exist, right? It doesn't
(36:44):
make it any less significant.It's just not in the news cycle anymore.
Now there's something else totalk about. And I think when you're
in, when you, when you are inthat space psychologically, then
you start. Because that's yourenvironment, right? Then you start
to behave. You start to becomea product of your environment. So
(37:05):
you start to glaze overthings. Even if it's really is significant
to you, you glaze over itbecause everybody else is and because
that's how you've beenconditioned. And we break the mold.
We're super divergent. I mean,you can tell by my career path and
background, I'm divergent. I'mthe outlier, right? I've always been
the outlier in everything thatI've done. I love that. I embrace
(37:28):
that. I run toward that. Thatis a source of strength and power
for me. Taylor has alsoinnately been an outlier early in
her career. And it's funnybecause we had this discussion yesterday
at lunch. She said, what I amis an outlier. What I've been conditioned
(37:49):
to behave like is aconformist. And that's the difference.
I just said, no more of that.You're an outlier you're going to
be an outlier. You're going toembrace it, and you're going to become
better at being an outlier.And that is why she has said publicly
(38:10):
now, now I have a clearunderstanding of who I am, both as
a person and as a player. Andthat completely changed everything
for her.
Yeah. It gives you so muchfreedom, doesn't it? Mental clarity,
freedom, and Everybody. Is she28 now, 29?
(38:30):
Yes.
20?
Yes.
You know, everybody finds thatat different ages. Some people find
at 20, some may find at 40.You know, everybody. So obviously,
the sooner you find that, thebetter. I. I think you may disagree,
but I think it's a powerfulthing to find out. How important,
John, do you think it is tobring an outsider. You, for example.
(38:54):
I don't think you're as muchas an outsider as I thought, by the
way, because you did have alot of tennis. You know, Bakara,
you were in it a while, butyou're. You're thinking as outsider
to bring that into teams. Doyou think more people should be doing
what you're doing, bringingsomebody from the outside in so they
get a fresh picture, they seethings differently, and they don't
miss out on the, you know, thesimple things that by being a conformist
(39:20):
you miss out on?
Sure. Short answer would BEyes, absolutely, 100%. There's a
concept in management calledthe unreasonable man. And as. As
an entrepreneur, I've alwayssought the unreasonable man. And
the unreasonable man theory isthis. You have five people that you
(39:43):
run an idea by. Right. Hey,Fabio, Guys, I'm thinking about doing
this. Here's my plan, and Ilay it out. One of you has the responsibility
to be the unreasonable man.Even if you love the idea and you
think it's the greatest thingyou've ever heard, you have the obligation
(40:04):
to me to make every reasonableobjection as to why it will not work
that you can think of and bebelligerent about it. Because if
you can poke a hole, thenchances are it's something that I
haven't thought of. It's anarea that I haven't covered. It's
(40:25):
something that I'm thinkingabout one way, but I should be thinking
about another way. But youhighlight that, and it happens like
that. Not years later, notthousands or hundreds of thousands
of dollars later. Right. Butimmediately. And as you know, in
sport time, time is your mostvaluable commodity because it is
(40:49):
a finite period in which youcan operate there. So the faster
you can get to solutions toactions, the better off you are.
And I think that's what'smissing. By and large, I think that
outside view, not for the sakeof being an outsider, but are you
(41:12):
indoctrinated? Tennis, likeseveral other sports, are very much.
This is how it's always beendone, so this is how we're going
to do it. And anytime you saythis is how it's always been done,
and that's. That's, you know,kind of like the prelude to that
(41:35):
second part of the statement,this is how we're going to do it,
that's a problem, becauseeverything evolves. Your television
now is not the same as it wasfive years ago, even. Right. I don't
know if you remember whenplasma TVs came out.
(41:55):
I do.
Yeah. You remember howexpensive they were and how heavy
they were. And now look, youcan buy an LCD television that has
much higher resolution. Thething is paper thin, and it's, you
know, 2, 300 bucks.
Things. Yeah, things changequickly. You say five years ago,
(42:18):
a year ago, things weredifferent, you know?
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.Do you. Are you still using the same,
you know, the same computerthat you had, you know, three, four
years ago? Probably not.
No.
No, no.
The computers aren't as bad.Computers aren't as bad, but in general.
No, I'm not correct. If youwant to be. If you want to be efficient,
(42:39):
you got to move.
You have to be a move. Youhave to evolve. And that's. That's
no different than. Thananything else that we're involved
in. There's an evolutionaryprocess, and either you're. You're
ahead, like, you're involved,you're embracing the evolution, or
you're resisting evolution.
Is. Is that like the one wherethey say either you eat or you get
(43:01):
eaten?
Yes.
Similar to that.
Yes.
Yeah. That's interesting. Butyou also mentioned before I came
across, you say ask better questions.
Yes.
Tell me some examples of youusing that, but also how you train
your athletes to ask better questions.
(43:24):
Asking better questions can bebroken into two categories, and you
have to be clear on what it isyou're trying to obtain. Are you
trying to obtain things thatyou can take action on or. Or things
that you can use for deeperand more meaningful understanding.
If I'm. If I'm asking you, howdid you feel about your forehand
(43:46):
today? Like, you hit somegreat shots today, Fabio. How'd you
feel about your forehand todaythen? I'm asking. I'm asking you
for an emotional response. Right.
Which feels good. Should feel good.
It could. Or it could feel. Itcould feel. Maybe you just are Ambivalent
(44:08):
about it. Right? You're just,eh, it was okay. I thought it was
okay. Then I have to. I haveto step in and ask myself, why is
he just saying it's okay? Icomplimented his four hands today.
Right. Right out of the gate.There's no mystery there. You already
know how I feel about yourforehands, but are you afraid to
(44:30):
acknowledge that for whateverreason, because you're insecure about
tooting your own horn a littlebit? Are you worried that I'm setting
you up? You know, what's goingon behind the scenes? So when you
respond like that, my nextquestion is, well, you just say you're
(44:52):
okay. Like, they were okay.What do you mean? Like, what would
be great, Fabio, what wouldmake you say, I hit some amazing
forehands today, John. Whatwould that have to look like for
you to say that? And now youhave to. You have to process and
answer that question. And youmight come back and say, no, you
know what? I am really happyabout how I. Okay, we just had a
(45:16):
breakthrough. Did we not? Nowyou know that it's okay. Not. Not
just that it's okay, but Iwant you to acknowledge your wins,
because we already knowthey're going to be a lot of losses.
A lot of losses. Right. Theway that training is set up, you're
(45:37):
going to lose a lot because Ihave to take you out of and keep
you out of your comfort zonein order for you to improve. So they're
going to be a lot of losses.But how do you celebrate your wins?
Because that's the light atthe end of the tunnel. That's the
refueling station. Right? Thepit stop so you can get back on the
racetrack. If you don'tcelebrate your wins and you can't
(45:59):
even acknowledge them, this isgoing to come to a screeching halt
very fast. So that's a reallyexpanded but brief example of how
asking better questions comesinto play now on the player's side,
because that was, from thecoach's perspective, on the player's
(46:20):
side. If your forehand's goingin the net, why is it going in the
net? Well, it could be anynumber of reasons, right? So a better
question would be, am Ihitting my reference points? And
then you hit another forehand,and you'll have an answer to that
(46:40):
question. So now you've solvedit. It's two balls. First one went
in the net. Second one wasyou. You. You asked the question
after the first one, and thesecond one gave you an answer. So
now that's two mistakes.Instead of.
10. Game over.
(47:02):
Right. Just because you askeda good question, a quality question,
a question that would lead youto the acquisition of data that you
could then use to solve aproblem or overcome a challenge.
Yeah, because as a player, youknow, you're in difficult situations
all the time on court. You're,you know, trying to figure out a
(47:24):
plan. You're missing. Somedays it's windy, you're missing.
You do ask yourself a lot ofquestions, don't you? You're trying
to figure out what's wrong.And I can think. See, now, by asking
better questions, you canfigure stuff out a lot. You should
be able to figure stuff out alot quicker.
Exactly.
Which gets you back on track.
(47:44):
The human mind doesn't like avacuum. Have you heard that expression
before?
No. No.
So the human mind doesn't likea vacuum. It'll have to fill it with
something. So in. In thiscontext, we're not talking about
a tangible vacuum. We'retalking about a space where there's
(48:05):
a need for an answer or aninput, but there isn't one there.
So the brain has to findsomething to put there because it
won't keep that space empty.It doesn't like placeholders. Okay,
so if I'm asking a question,that's a prompt I'm programming myself
(48:26):
to now. Scan and find whatneeds to go in that spot. Now, there's
no mystery. The space isfilled and I can move on. Now, that
may not be the right answer. Imay be close, but it may not be the
right answer. But I. But nowI'm in the ballpark, Right? When
(48:47):
that doesn't happen, fear,indecision, anxiety sets in. If the
space is there, as long as thespace is there, any one of those
three things is present. Iguarantee you, you think about every
situation you've been in whereyou. You delved into the unknown
and you either had fear,anxiety, or indecision.
(49:12):
Yeah, it's all snow, but thenit's a snowball and avalanche, and
you're in trouble then.
And if one of those thingspops up, it's very difficult to be
successful in that moment withany one of those things present.
If you're indecisive, yourswing speed is going to slow down.
Yeah. You're no longer present.
(49:33):
Right. Exactly. Exactly.You're distracted. You're taken away
from what you need to befocused on.
Yeah. The good quote. I'm notsure who it's by. Is it Agassi or.
The best thing tennis playerscan have is a short is a memory.
Problem like, you know, shortmemory, where they can just. I know
it's slightly different whatwe're talking about, but just forget
about things. And you may notbe answering the question, but you're
(49:56):
forgetting about things andmoving on.
Exactly. At least you're notcarrying the past forward.
Yeah, yeah, yes. And that'sinteresting. And John, I'm going
to end with this question. Ifyou've been around tennis a while,
you've seen the ups and downs,you know, you've covered a lot of
areas. What is. Well, is thereanything you'd change in tennis if
(50:17):
you were to CEO tennis today?
Yes, I would change thenecessity for players to be forced
to basically play almost allyear long in order to maintain and
achieve ranking levels. Thatwould, that would probably be the
(50:42):
first thing because that willhave a. That's an umbrella that covers
mental health by majority, itcovers physical health by majority.
I think it covers the qualityby majority because I think if you
(51:04):
had players that were a bitmore well rested, bit more mentally
fresh, they come into eventsin a much better space and are able
to produce a higher level ofquality for the duration of the event.
And when you have theseplayers cycling in and out now overall
(51:25):
as a sport, you've elevatedthe quality of the sport. I think
Anna Samova has a perfectexample of that. Coming into Wimbledon.
If you look at what she playedprior to the, the volume of tennis
that she played prior to, shewas relatively fresh physically,
(51:48):
yes, but also psychologicallyand emotionally. So she came in ready
to compete and we saw a greatrun by her, an outstanding level
of play and qualityperformance. And I think we could
see that a lot more. The crazything is if you look at the top players
(52:14):
and you look at how much, howthey choose their schedule, we see
that, we've seen that for along time now. So this is not a new
concept. The only differenceis they're going to semifinals, finals,
every tournament they play. Sotheir points and ranking is such
that it affords them theability to miss a week here, to take
(52:37):
time off here without droppingtoo far in the ranking points and
suffering any significantnegative consequences.
Is it a bit of chicken and eggfor maybe not the top, top players,
but like a bit lower thanrank, let's say like 5 to 30 or 40,
where they could take moretime off, they can take. There's
(52:59):
nothing stopping them takingmore time off really, is there? I
know they may get fined ifcertain minimum tournaments to play,
they've maybe sponsoredobligations, but ultimately they
could take a bit more time offto work on the little things they
have to work on, do trainingblocks or take holidays and which
would make them fresher toplay. Is there a fear there, do you
(53:19):
think with some players that,you know, I got to be playing every
week, the forehand goes if Idon't play every week. Do you think
that's a bit of it as well? Ithink as a, as an amateur player,
I find that if I don't playevery week, I lose my groove. So
these guys and girls, thebest. Do you see it, do you hear
it? That, you know, I have toplay every week because my forehand's
(53:40):
going to go back and is goingto go or whatever. So fear. Is fear
something that stops them fromplaying every week?
I think that's a majorcomponent, Fabio, to be honest, I
think fear is a majorcomponent to that, to that driving.
There's also, you know, thefear of not just that their form
(54:01):
is going to go off, but thatsomebody else is going to move up
or get better or pass them.Right. And I think that there's a
healthy balance to that. Butgenerally if you're operating from
a place of fear, then you'renot operating in a, in a really productive
or optimal fashion, regardlessof what we're talking about.
(54:24):
Yeah, because look, I'vespoken to enough where it's pro.
Look, we're process driven,trust the process. And is there not
a bit in the process that saysI think you need to take a month
off here? I think that's theonly bit they don't trust where if
they're told, look, you needtime off here because we, as you
said, Ansimova had some timeoff, Sinner had some time off. He's
(54:45):
so fresh. At Wimbledon,Alcaraz looked a bit tired. At Wimbledon,
players get injured, they comeback from injury, they're fresh.
And so, yeah, look, I agreewith you on the resting and you're
right, ATP Tour, WTA Tourcould be doing something more to
help out the lower rankedplayers to force them to take some
time off.
(55:05):
I think Sinner had a perfectexample leading into Rome. He had
a nice little vacation thereleading into Rome. He could get up,
you know, what was it, a 8week, 12 week training block? I don't
remember how much time he hadoff, but who gets that?
They don't get it like theygot at Covid. They got it at Covid.
(55:26):
So 2020 was the last time theygot that, which some players thought
was great, by the way, becausethey got to work on certain parts
of their game. But it's beenfive. Nobody else has got it since
apart from Sinner. Maybe IGAgot it a little bit as well. I'm
not sure if she was off for awhile, but yeah.
Anyway, she missed the Asia swing.
Yeah. So, yeah, you know,she's, I won't say now she's reaped
(55:50):
the repercussions of itbecause, yeah, I think she was the
fastest server in Wimbledon.Female. I think she was hitting the
biggest serves, which, youknow, like our serve as a target
before and now all of a suddenshe's become an assassin with the
serve, which is, which is kindof crazy, right? Yeah.
Right.
Been a pleasure. I've learneda lot today and great to, great to
(56:14):
get a different view oncoaching, so thank you very much.
Yeah, I love it, man. I'mhappy to do it. Thanks for having
me.
Sam.
Welcome to the FunctionalTennis Podcast brought to you by
ASICS Tennis and I'm yourhost, Fabio Molly and I bring you
insights and lessons fromplayers, coaches, parents and experts
who are ingrained in the worldof high level tennis. This week I'm
joined by John Williams, coachand mentor to world number one doubles
player, Taylor Townsend. Johnbrings a non traditional view to
(00:45):
tennis coaching on and off thecourt, focusing not just on strokes
and strategy, but on buildingstrong character in his players.
We chat about thecharacteristics he looks for in players,
what it takes to stay in thegame long term, and why building
trust and strong value mattersmore than quick wins. His unique
insights into playerrelationships, emotional resilience
(01:07):
and long term growth make thisa powerful listen for coaches, parents
and ambitious players alike.Here's John. John, welcome to the
Functional Tennis Podcast. Howare you?
I'm doing well, thanks Fabio.It's good to be here.
I'm super pumped to find outabout you, how you got into tennis
and the great work you've beendoing, especially recently now with
(01:31):
the headlines and yeah, sotell us, first of all, maybe how
did you get into tennis and abit about your background that led
you to getting into tennis.
Sure. So 1997, I started inthe fitness industry, became a personal
trainer, worked at a couple ofcountry clubs in New York and then
(01:52):
eventually opened my ownfacility while I was still working
at a country club. So I wasdoing double duty there and I did
that probably for about twoand a half years and then we moved
from New York to Atlanta andonce I moved to Atlanta, opened a
couple of gyms, I've ownedseveral facilities down there and
(02:14):
then really made the move intosports performance. Once I did that,
I kind of never looked back,got involved in sports performance
and became the physicalconditioning guy and that was my
early introduction to tennison the junior level. Started working
hand in hand with some coachesin and around the Atlanta area and
(02:38):
happened to be fortunateenough to connect with some really
good ones who had some playersthat went on to do some really good
things in junior tennis and Iwas the guy kind of powering their
physical behind their on courtperformances. So I'm a very invasive,
all inclusive type of person.So when I'm in, I'm all the way in
(03:00):
and if I'm not in, then I'mnot in at all. So when I got involved
in tennis I wanted to learneverything there was to learn about
the sport, both as a playerand I grew up playing racquetball,
which I don't know if you arefamiliar with that. Okay.
I think Ireland has some goodplayers in racquetball, as far as
I know.
(03:20):
Okay. Okay. So I grew upplaying racquetball, so I was familiar
with the concept of, you know,racket sports, and that was kind
of the. The. The fuel that ledto my intrigue. So I started spending,
you know, more and more timearound the tennis courts, watching
lessons, listening to whatcoaches were telling players to do,
(03:43):
and then seeing what theplayers were able to do with that
information. Lookingpredominantly for any physical limitations
or areas that I could be ofservice in any, you know, any. Any
area that I could contributeto their improvement. And being around
that, I gained a massiveeducation in how to play the game,
(04:05):
how to look at the game, youknow, the components involved in
the game, understanding thegame from, you know, from a tennis
coach's perspective, becausethat's who I was essentially shadowing.
So fast forward we come tonow. You know, I've been in Atlanta
for four or five years. I havesome of the top juniors in the country
(04:29):
that I'm working with, andreputation has really spread now.
I'm working with a lot moreplayers at various levels. I have
players getting ready to go onto university, getting scholarships,
things like that. So that'show I essentially got involved in
(04:52):
tennis and became kind of afigurehead in. In. Involved in the
sport.
So it wasn't an overnightchange. You've been gradually building
and building and building and learning.
I say it was an overnightsuccess that only took about 10 years
to happen.
Yeah, I think that's mostovernight successes, isn't it, in
(05:14):
Atlanta? Robbie Ginepri, doyou ever work in that academy? That's
the only one I know in Atlanta.
Gotcha. You know, a funnystory, so Robby, when he had his
big run at the US Open, myreputation was pretty well known
at that point in time. So Iwas going to a Cairo that also treated
(05:36):
Robbie. And this Cairo used todo a lot of work with the Atlanta
Falcons. So his name was Dr.Dave. So, Dr. Dave, shout out to
Dr. Dave, I hope you andSherry and the kids are doing well.
Dr. Dave was working withRobbie, and he was like, you know,
Robbie could really usesomeone like you in his corner. And
I said, okay, cool. I'm happyto. Happy to chat with him. And for
(06:00):
whatever reason, thatconversation never took place. But
I always thought it was prettycool that, you know, I could say,
yeah, somebody was trying toconnect me with Robbie, and it just
didn't work out. But, yeah, soall good.
That's pretty cool. No that'spretty cool. But more recently, you've
(06:21):
been working with Taylortownsend Now, roughly five years,
is it.
We've been working togethersince 2017.
Okay. Longer. Longer. Soyou've had before pregnancy and after
pregnancy. You've been there.
Exactly.
Okay. How many years? How oldis her boy now?
He's four.
He's four. Okay. So. Andyou've evolved more into it. You're
(06:44):
a coach now. You're like, yes.So how, when you look at a player,
a new player, I show you aplayer, this guy's going to be a
top. He's top player in thecountry, or what do you look for
in a player? What. What sortof. I'm interested to hear how your,
you know, your background hasshaped how you think about when you
see a player. First.
(07:05):
Sure. The first thing I thinkabout and I look for is what does
their work ethic look like?The second thing I look for is why
are they doing this? What is.Does this bring them joy? Is this
an itch that they can't everseem to scratch, but they keep trying
because they love it thatmuch? You know, and then I look at
(07:30):
what the structure is aroundthem. Are they. Are they from a heavily
involved but not necessarilysupportive family? Are they from
a minimally involved butheavily supported family? Those things
matter. And I look at that tokind of establish what kind of personality
(07:52):
characteristics and attributesthere are going to be present in
this player. Because we are,as much as we like to think that
we break the mold and, youknow, are able to move beyond a different
orbit, we are a product of ourenvironment. So if our environment
is messy, if our environmentis heavy, if our environment is filled
with, you know, criticismsand. And, you know, negativity, then
(08:18):
we are going to develop inresponse to that.
Environment, what are theideal characteristics? So if you're
looking for your perfectplayer to work on, I know the results
may not end up being perfect,but from a building, from day one,
you say, okay, this player hasall the characteristics and attributes
that I think will make a greatplayer. What are they? If we can
(08:40):
package them up?
Yeah, that's a great question.So it's actually why I wrote a book
on the five attributes of Champions.
I haven't read it yet. Ihaven't read it yet.
Looking at it. Yeah, we'llmake sure we get you a copy. So in
the Champions code, I actuallybreak down all five of the attributes
that I see as commonalitiesamongst all high achievers, regardless
(09:04):
of what domain they. Theyoperate in. The first thing is Mental
toughness and mental toughnesscan take a couple of different shapes,
but essentially we want tomake sure that you have the ability
to stay mentally tough andengaged when things don't go your
(09:26):
way, when you are faced withadversity, whatever that looks like.
The second thing would be, Iwould say, man, if I was looking
at a kid, what I would belooking for. Yeah, definitely. Discipline
and work ethic, that would benumber two. Because if you don't
(09:48):
have the work ethic, you'renever going to push yourself, regardless
of what was going on aroundyou. So you can be the best coach
in the world, you can be partof the best team in the world, but
if the individual is notwilling to push themselves harder
than you are willing to pushthem, it's going to be really tough
for them to get a hundredpercent of their performance out
(10:10):
of them. Right. The secondthing is the discipline. That second
part is the discipline.Because what happens when you're
not around, that's wherediscipline kicks in. Right. A lot
of players are really good atfollowing instructions. Yes. So,
and so does whatever I tellthem to do. But when I'm not around
(10:30):
to tell them to do it, whatare they doing? So are you doing
your mobility work on yourown? Are you making sure that you're
getting your eight to ninehours of sleep every night? Are you
being diligent with yournutrition? Whether it's a diet for
body composition or we'relooking to optimize your performance.
(10:50):
So we want to make sure thatyour post workout nutrition is good
or your pre workout nutritionis good. That's all discipline. That's
not somebody standing next toyou saying, do this, do that, do
this, do that. We can't alwaysbe in the same category as Novak,
where you have somebody handyou a meal and say, eat this now.
(11:11):
Hand you a shake and say,drink this now. Right.
There's only a couple ofplayers in the world, there's only
a handful that can have that.
And it's very interestingbecause if you look at it like financially,
there are quite a few playersthat could afford that, but they
choose not to have that. And Ialways sit back and I wonder why,
(11:31):
because I would definitely dothat. Decision fatigue. Just eliminate
that. Decision fatigue.
It's a bit like people whowear the same clothes every day.
It's one less decision theyhave to do every day. Do you think
that Novak would, where he hasthis help, if he didn't have the
help, he'd still be doingthat, or do you think he wouldn't
(11:53):
Be.
I think he would be because Ithink he identifies that it's a priority
for him because it, itradically impacts his performance,
how well he would be able toexecute. I think that's where the
question mark comes in, youknow, and I think that's, that's
the difference. Right. The,the champions control what they can
control and he can controlthis. So it's, he knows it's the
(12:17):
same all the time. Like it'salways done at a high level every
single time. And it doesn'trely, it doesn't matter how busy
he gets with, you know, publicengagements or sponsorship obligations
or this or that.
Yeah.
Or even actually the playingof tennis.
Yeah.
It doesn't matter that his,his recovery level, all of those
things stay consistent theentire time. And that is the key
(12:39):
to long term success.
I think I'm breaking into yourpoints here, but I think a better
example this is Taylor, whohaving a kid is not easy. I know
we've three kids. My diettrain has fallen apart with three
kids between sleep and you'rejust not. It's another fight you
have to do with yourself andjust like you just give in to that
fight. I feel sometimes it'sgood, sometimes bad, but consistency
(13:02):
isn't there throughout theyear. So how does somebody like Taylor
would a young kid the past fewyears be able to, you know, maintain
their energy for training, eatright, you know, be mentally in a
positive place when you're notsleeping well because your kid's
up in the middle of the night?How have you worked with her to help
her combat this? Or is thisjust something she's really good
(13:23):
at naturally?
That's a great question. Iwouldn't say, I wouldn't say I've
ever met anyone who is reallygood at, at managing parenting naturally.
I think there are people whoare really good at adapting fast,
if that makes sense.
Yeah, yeah.
And it sounds kind of like I'msplitting hairs and being really
(13:45):
semantic about it, but I don'tthink you could be really good at
something naturally that youhave no concept of what it actually
involves. And you parenthoodis like that, you know, after you've
had your first one, then youknow what's involved. Right. So you
kind of know what's coming or,or what could be.
But two is always harder thanone, you know, it's a different,
(14:07):
the second one is not thesame. It's different game. It's a
completely different sport.And then three is a different sport.
And then I'm sure four is aswell, so. But yeah, you're right,
yes. Adaptable is a good word.
So I think. I think in. In hersituation, going back to the attributes,
one attribute that she and Ihave worked really hard to cultivate
(14:32):
in her is the ability to buildand maintain a team. And, you know,
we talked about this when.When she was pregnant and discussing
her return to play, her returnto competition, and I said, listen,
you're going to need to have acouple of people in play, and one
(14:54):
of those people has to be acaregiver, because you can't be in
two places at one time. Andyou want to make sure that your son.
Well, child. We didn't know hewas a boy at that point, but your
son, your child is going tohave consistency and some sense of
normalcy, because you don't.You don't. So that's one of the other
(15:23):
attributes that I think ishighly valuable, not just for Taylor,
but even for a junior athlete.Understanding that building a team
needs to be a primary focus,and there's a developmental curve
in there as well. Because ifyou're 12, what do you know about
(15:43):
team building? You know, youmight be part of a team, but. But
you. You really have verylittle exposure on how to build a
team. But if you start askingthose questions and that. That's
introduced to you, like, hey,what do you really like about the
way that, you know Fabiocoaches? Well, I like that he gives
me tough things to do, but henever yells at me, and he always
(16:07):
asks me a lot of questions.You know what I mean? So you. You
ask them questions so thatthey start thinking about the attributes
that they like in others, andthat becomes the building block or
the foundation for how they'regoing to build their team. You see
this a lot. I'll just add thislittle bit and then I'll shut up.
(16:29):
No, no.
It's interesting.
You see a lot at the prolevel, and there's been some recent
movement now. Players andcoaches coming together, but also
going apart. Right. And you'relike, wow, did you. Before you picked
this coach to work with, didyou identify the attributes that
(16:51):
they have? Do you actuallyknow who it is you're working with,
or are you basing it off thePersona and the cv? Because those
two things are radicallydifferent. I've been saying for a
very long time, we all need tocheck pedigrees, and the pedigree
needs to be the history. So ifyou're looking at someone's performance,
(17:17):
you're evaluating theirperformance, not just their associations.
What did their presence do tochange or Move the needle of the
person that they're workingwith or the group that they're working
with. Right. That's how we evaluate.
That's is. That's what youhave to understand is. I'm just a
(17:39):
little bit lost. You're goneover my head now a little bit. No,
no. Which is, which is. Whichis not a bad thing or a good thing.
You're sleep deprived. That'swhat we'll blame.
No, I'm not so bad today. I'mnot so bad today. No, but you mean
that's what we need to lookout for or that's what we look out
for and it's wrong?
No, that's what we need tolook out for. We need to look at
(18:01):
the history. We need to lookat historical evidence. We need to
put aside the hype, thehyperbole, the marketing and the
Persona aspect of it. That maybe what attracts you there. You know,
it's like a relationship. Ohyeah, right. The visual happens first.
Yeah.
But if there's no substancethere, if you can't carry on a conversation
(18:23):
with the person, then I don'tthink, you know, a 30 year, 50 year
marriage prospect is probablynot that person will make. So it
becomes really important tounderstand really what it is we're
looking at and then making adecision based on that, not what
somebody tells you becausethey really like that person.
(18:46):
True. We're sucked into thosevisual things so quickly, aren't
we? Even you may think it'sdone at an ordinary level, but it's
also at a high level, like thebest in the world. Do it get sucked
in as well?
Correct.
And they, and they think, butyou're right, the well runs dry pretty
quick.
Exactly.
Okay, so getting back to somemore characteristics that you're
(19:09):
looking for in this idealplayer to start off with parents
a big thing. I know you talkabout guidance and you know, helping
how they know what it's liketo build a team. But surely you need
parents at a young age areinvolved as well and they're making
decisions until the kid's 18most of the time where they're getting
(19:30):
in coaches or maybe they'rethe coach in many cases. So I think
you did mention foundations atthe start. And this whole family,
what's their commitment? Soideal parents, what are they look.
Like committed to the successof the child. And success in this
(19:52):
regard I'm defining as thefacilitation of every opportunity
for the child to accomplishtheir goals and dreams. That's success
as an outsider. That's all youcan do. So if you tell me you want
to be number one in the worldon the ATP tour, I might say, fabio,
(20:18):
have you really thought aboutthis? Right. So, not that I'm trying
to dissuade you, I'm trying todetermine how much you thought, like
deep thought and investigationyou've done into this goal and objective,
because that's going todetermine whether or not it's, it's
just something you're saying,or is it something that you feel
(20:40):
and you're willing to dedicateyour life to? Once we've identified
that, then I would say, okay,well, here's how I think I can help
contribute to that and I'lllist the things, but those things
are only going to befacilitating opportunities for you
(21:04):
so I can get you in greatshape. That's going to allow you
to be able to play the gameyou want to play the way you want
to play it, give youlongevity, because hopefully you'll
be resistant to injury. Andthose opportunities may provide you
the other opportunities to golong and go far and climb the rankings
(21:26):
and all those other things.Things that I can't control. Right.
So parents, bringing it backto your question, parents, especially
in the beginning, they're thefacilitators. They're the facilitators
and they're the, themaintainers of motivation and support.
(21:46):
So as a parent of a 12 yearold that aspires to, you know, play
at the highest level of thesport, whatever the sport is, I'm
saying if you're willing tocommit to doing the work on and off
court, if you're willing todiscipline yourself in the manner
(22:07):
that it is required in orderfor you to constantly make progress.
We're not trying to becomeworld champion or, you know, number
one in the world overnight. Soit's a, it's a, it's a process, it's
a time, right? So we need tomake sure that you're going to be
consistent in doing the thingsthat will aggregate over time and
(22:28):
lead you there. But if you'rewilling to do that, then I'll take
you to pr, I'll take you totraining, I'll pick you up, I'll
pay for the lessons, I'll buythe shoes, I'll do this, I'll do
that, I'll do this, I'll dothat. Right. So those are all the
tangible things that are onthe parental side of support once
you guys have engaged in thatcontract. Because it is an agreement.
(22:52):
They have responsibilities andobligations, and you have responsibilities
and obligations. Okay? So theother thing, the other side of the
coin, the intangibles, is thesupport side and the encouragement
side. And that is, I think,probably the most misunderstood area
(23:12):
that exists, especially inyoung. Developing young players,
young athletes. And that iswhere the parents understand that
your primary role as a parentneeds to be support, encouragement,
but also the maintaining of astandard. And that standard doesn't
(23:39):
waver. It doesn't. It doesn'tvacillate whether they are playing
well or whether they areperforming horribly. The standard
is still the standard. That'show they understand the relationship
and identity between. This iswho I am. Antennas is just what I
(24:03):
do. The same way as a plumberis not defined by how many drains
he can unclog. Right. He's aplumber. That's just the job that
he does. But who he is couldbe any number of different things.
And I think that separation ofidentity begins in the home with
(24:26):
the parents in situations like this.
Yeah, it's. You can see howit's tough for parents that kids
that age where they want tobe, you know, more invest and maybe
invested, not the right word,but they're sucked in too much, and
then their mood becomesdependent on how this kid's doing
that the kids upset, and it'sjust downhill from there. So, nice
point on the just having aconstant enthusiasm. Where it's good
(24:52):
or bad, it's constant.
That's where, you know, I usethe expression a lot. You know, I'm
not going to ride the rollercoaster with you. And. And what that
means is, you know, as acoach, when I'm sitting on the sidelines
watching a match, if thingsare going really well or if they
aren't going really poorly,then I have to still be the navigator.
(25:19):
I still have to be the eye inthe sky. I still have to see three
miles out, and I have to lookat all of those things, not just
what I'm being blinded byright now. And the player, of course,
is occupied with what'sdirectly in front of their face,
and that sometimes limitstheir vision. They can't see beyond.
(25:40):
Right. So if I'm on the rollercoaster with you, then I'm also.
I also suffer from thatlimited tunnel vision. But if I'm
not on the roller coaster withyou, then I can see. Hey, Fabio,
look out. There's another.There's a big drop coming.
You're air traffic control.
Exactly, exactly. And that iswhere parents really have a difficult
(26:04):
time. Because they're soclose, it's very difficult for them
to create separation andSpace. And this is where, this is
where it becomes criticallyimportant, in my opinion, for parents
to understand what attributesthey have naturally and then look
to improve those attributes,improve on those attributes and move
(26:28):
toward, you know, attributesthat are going to complement the
relationship, complement thesituation, complement the success
and growth, development oftheir player.
And obviously you work withTaylor full time now. Do you still
work with juniors at the moment?
I do. I consult for a fewjuniors. You know, this, my, my 9
(26:49):
to 5, my full time job kind ofkeeps me out of pocket a lot.
Yeah.
At least 24, 25 weeks a year.So it makes it difficult to do a
lot of face to face. Butthanks to technology, I'm able to
make myself available withjuniors that I work with. As a matter
of fact, I have, I have one ofthe juniors that I worked with. I
(27:11):
started working with him whenhe was 14. He's actually here this
week acting as a hittingpartner for us, so.
Right.
Yeah, it's pretty cool whenyou work.
With these juniors is do youmake it a point to speak to the parents,
to understand the parents soyou better understand. It's better
for you if you understand themand then if anything has to be said,
you can say it.
(27:32):
Yes. Before I work withanyone, adult or otherwise, I have
to understand who it is I'mworking with. And that's my vetting
and evaluation process. And Ithink for me it has eliminated a
lot of issues. So I knowimmediately after having a discussion
(27:55):
or two with a parent, I knowtheir positioning, I know how they're
going to be involved. I knowif they're going to be overbearing,
I know if they're going to be,hey, standoff, I'm handing them over
to you because I trust you andso on and so forth. I know where
they're going to fall and thatway I know how to manage them. I
also know how to leverage themif I need to bring them in strategically
(28:18):
as part of the team and havethem provide benefit that I may not
be able to or that the childwill only receive from them. Yeah.
So no surprises?
I try to eliminate surprises.
And when you first, when youmade the decision to work with Taylor,
what characteristics in herstood out? You're like, whoa, she's.
(28:40):
This is amazing.
That's a great question. Firstand foremost, her work ethic. Second,
her discipline when it comesto what she's willing to do. She'll
do anything I ask her to do atpretty much any time. I could call
(29:03):
her up at 2 o' clock in themorning and Say let's. I'm, I'm dead
serious. I could call her upat 2:00 in the morning, wake her
up from a, a great night'ssleep and say, we need to go downstairs
and do some cardio. And she'llsay, okay, give me 20 minutes. That
is extreme. But that's thelevel of dedication that's required
(29:26):
if you want to really becomeyour best, whatever that means, wherever
that ends up, right? But ifyou really want to become your best,
you have to be willing tosacrifice whatever you have right
now for what you can become.The second thing is the discipline
that I mentioned. And if I sayI need you to do this, this, this
(29:49):
and this and this, then shewill make sure that all of those
boxes are ticked. Nowsometimes she gets the order wrong.
That's okay, that's okay.
But she will make sure everybox has been ticked. And I don't
have to micromanage, which isit's trust based on her consistent
(30:15):
level of performance. Sobecause she's performed. This is
what we were talking aboutearlier, right? Looking at the pedigree,
the history, the track recordof result, if she hadn't proven to
me that she will consistentlydeliver on the discipline side, then
I would have to micromanage alittle bit more to make sure that
it's getting done. But she hasproven that, so I don't have to micromanage.
(30:40):
I can assign it and then thatfrees me up to then keep looking
ahead and move on.
And what have you had to workon? What were areas you say, okay,
we need to be a little bitbetter at this.
Oh, well, that's easy. Taylorcame from a super deconstructive
(31:00):
environment. Everything aboutTaylor's environment basically centered
around you're not good enough.And it gave the impression that nothing
was ever going to be goodenough. There was an, there was never
a point that she couldaccomplish anything and it would
(31:23):
be, wow, you're great, John.
Was this from herself or from.Exterately, both. Okay.
Largely from externally, whichshe then adopted because when you're
in it for 14 years, you're aproduct of your environment, right?
So a lot of that negative selftalk, a lot of that self criticism,
(31:45):
a lot of the, you know, lackof fulfillment with successes and
accomplishments, all of thosethings were baked in, heavily baked
in. And when you're in a sportthat only rewards success, it's very
difficult to find the silverlining when you think you're constantly
(32:10):
in a rainstorm. So that wasthe first thing understanding that
that's where she came from andthen putting mechanisms in place
so we could, we could startunraveling a lot of those things.
Nice. Yeah, it's interesting.And how does it feel like this week
there for her to be, you know,the world's number one doubles player,
(32:34):
first mother to ever be femalenumber one. But to be the world's
one doubles player, how doesthat feel to her? I don't know. Not
a question I can ask her, but.And how does it feel to you?
Yeah, good question. So superbig accomplishment. Obviously, it's
always nice being recognizedand acknowledged for your accomplishments.
(32:59):
Right? Everybody. Maslow'shierarchy of needs, social acknowledgement
and acceptance is on there.You want to be admired by your peers
for your accomplishments andyour work. That's phenomenal. However,
we already knew who the worldnumber one doubles player, who the
(33:21):
best doubles player was in theworld. We already knew that internally.
We already knew that. It justwasn't, it wasn't a specific target
for something that we wereaiming for. And that makes it all
the more special. It justconfirms that she's living into what
(33:44):
we already knew. It just tooka while for the rankings to catch
up, but we already knew and wetreat it as such, like we already.
Okay, this is great. It'sgreat for me from my perspective,
it's great to have her nameetched in the record books for yet
another thing. Fantastic. Butwe're still not done. We still have
(34:10):
goals and objectives that weare hyper focused on that we have
not hit yet, and that's wherewe are. So going back to my roller
coaster analogy, because Ithink it applies here as well. We
never get too high on thehighs and we never get too low on
the lows, and that allows usthe ability to move.
(34:34):
Yeah, I, I think I'm. I justget lost a little bit. You know,
the way sometimes you hearplayers saying they look back and
they go, I should havecelebrated those milestones more.
Yeah, now you're living itright now. You're like, okay, we're
well done. You know, we shouldhave been here. We're here now. We're
going to keep on with so muchmore to do. But it is a massive milestone,
(34:55):
being the world's best,officially. I know you knew the insight.
And it depends obviously onwhat type of person you are. But
you hear it quite a bit. Iwon't say so often. We hear quite
a bit. We should haveappreciated the moment a bit longer.
I know that. Then you hear thetennis, you know, next in Canada
this week. So you don't havetime, you got to stay professional.
What, what's your thought onthat? When you hear players say,
(35:17):
oh, we should have celebrateda little bit more.
I think taking the time,celebration is relative. I think,
right? Some people need to goout and have a big fanfare, like,
how do you celebrate yourbirthday versus how do I celebrate
my birthday? We both celebrateit, right? But you may go out to
a pub with your friends,family, you may have a big, you know,
(35:40):
ta da. And me, I'm at thebeach by myself in solitude for two,
three hours, reflecting andsetting intentions for the upcoming
year, right? We both celebrateit. It's different. Are we both fulfilled?
Let's hope so. I know that Iam the way that I celebrate, and
(36:01):
I hope that you are the waythat you celebrate. And I think that's
the difference. There's not aone size fits all for how we process
and accept successes andaccomplishments, how we appreciate
the milestones that we areable to, you know, accomplish in
our lives and in our careers.But if we take the time and do it
(36:24):
intentionally, that makes abig difference. Glazing over. This
is a sport where a lot ofthings get glazed over very quickly,
right? Two weeks from now, howmany people are going to be talking
about this?
No, nobody. Nobody.
Right? But that doesn't meanit doesn't exist, right? It doesn't
(36:44):
make it any less significant.It's just not in the news cycle anymore.
Now there's something else totalk about. And I think when you're
in, when you, when you are inthat space psychologically, then
you start. Because that's yourenvironment, right? Then you start
to behave. You start to becomea product of your environment. So
(37:05):
you start to glaze overthings. Even if it's really is significant
to you, you glaze over itbecause everybody else is and because
that's how you've beenconditioned. And we break the mold.
We're super divergent. I mean,you can tell by my career path and
background, I'm divergent. I'mthe outlier, right? I've always been
the outlier in everything thatI've done. I love that. I embrace
(37:28):
that. I run toward that. Thatis a source of strength and power
for me. Taylor has alsoinnately been an outlier early in
her career. And it's funnybecause we had this discussion yesterday
at lunch. She said, what I amis an outlier. What I've been conditioned
(37:49):
to behave like is aconformist. And that's the difference.
I just said, no more of that.You're an outlier you're going to
be an outlier. You're going toembrace it, and you're going to become
better at being an outlier.And that is why she has said publicly
(38:10):
now, now I have a clearunderstanding of who I am, both as
a person and as a player. Andthat completely changed everything
for her.
Yeah. It gives you so muchfreedom, doesn't it? Mental clarity,
freedom, and Everybody. Is she28 now, 29?
(38:30):
Yes.
20?
Yes.
You know, everybody finds thatat different ages. Some people find
at 20, some may find at 40.You know, everybody. So obviously,
the sooner you find that, thebetter. I. I think you may disagree,
but I think it's a powerfulthing to find out. How important,
John, do you think it is tobring an outsider. You, for example.
(38:54):
I don't think you're as muchas an outsider as I thought, by the
way, because you did have alot of tennis. You know, Bakara,
you were in it a while, butyou're. You're thinking as outsider
to bring that into teams. Doyou think more people should be doing
what you're doing, bringingsomebody from the outside in so they
get a fresh picture, they seethings differently, and they don't
miss out on the, you know, thesimple things that by being a conformist
(39:20):
you miss out on?
Sure. Short answer would BEyes, absolutely, 100%. There's a
concept in management calledthe unreasonable man. And as. As
an entrepreneur, I've alwayssought the unreasonable man. And
the unreasonable man theory isthis. You have five people that you
(39:43):
run an idea by. Right. Hey,Fabio, Guys, I'm thinking about doing
this. Here's my plan, and Ilay it out. One of you has the responsibility
to be the unreasonable man.Even if you love the idea and you
think it's the greatest thingyou've ever heard, you have the obligation
(40:04):
to me to make every reasonableobjection as to why it will not work
that you can think of and bebelligerent about it. Because if
you can poke a hole, thenchances are it's something that I
haven't thought of. It's anarea that I haven't covered. It's
(40:25):
something that I'm thinkingabout one way, but I should be thinking
about another way. But youhighlight that, and it happens like
that. Not years later, notthousands or hundreds of thousands
of dollars later. Right. Butimmediately. And as you know, in
sport time, time is your mostvaluable commodity because it is
(40:49):
a finite period in which youcan operate there. So the faster
you can get to solutions toactions, the better off you are.
And I think that's what'smissing. By and large, I think that
outside view, not for the sakeof being an outsider, but are you
(41:12):
indoctrinated? Tennis, likeseveral other sports, are very much.
This is how it's always beendone, so this is how we're going
to do it. And anytime you saythis is how it's always been done,
and that's. That's, you know,kind of like the prelude to that
(41:35):
second part of the statement,this is how we're going to do it,
that's a problem, becauseeverything evolves. Your television
now is not the same as it wasfive years ago, even. Right. I don't
know if you remember whenplasma TVs came out.
(41:55):
I do.
Yeah. You remember howexpensive they were and how heavy
they were. And now look, youcan buy an LCD television that has
much higher resolution. Thething is paper thin, and it's, you
know, 2, 300 bucks.
Things. Yeah, things changequickly. You say five years ago,
(42:18):
a year ago, things weredifferent, you know?
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.Do you. Are you still using the same,
you know, the same computerthat you had, you know, three, four
years ago? Probably not.
No.
No, no.
The computers aren't as bad.Computers aren't as bad, but in general.
No, I'm not correct. If youwant to be. If you want to be efficient,
(42:39):
you got to move.
You have to be a move. Youhave to evolve. And that's. That's
no different than. Thananything else that we're involved
in. There's an evolutionaryprocess, and either you're. You're
ahead, like, you're involved,you're embracing the evolution, or
you're resisting evolution.
Is. Is that like the one wherethey say either you eat or you get
(43:01):
eaten?
Yes.
Similar to that.
Yes.
Yeah. That's interesting. Butyou also mentioned before I came
across, you say ask better questions.
Yes.
Tell me some examples of youusing that, but also how you train
your athletes to ask better questions.
(43:24):
Asking better questions can bebroken into two categories, and you
have to be clear on what it isyou're trying to obtain. Are you
trying to obtain things thatyou can take action on or. Or things
that you can use for deeperand more meaningful understanding.
If I'm. If I'm asking you, howdid you feel about your forehand
(43:46):
today? Like, you hit somegreat shots today, Fabio. How'd you
feel about your forehand todaythen? I'm asking. I'm asking you
for an emotional response. Right.
Which feels good. Should feel good.
It could. Or it could feel. Itcould feel. Maybe you just are Ambivalent
(44:08):
about it. Right? You're just,eh, it was okay. I thought it was
okay. Then I have to. I haveto step in and ask myself, why is
he just saying it's okay? Icomplimented his four hands today.
Right. Right out of the gate.There's no mystery there. You already
know how I feel about yourforehands, but are you afraid to
(44:30):
acknowledge that for whateverreason, because you're insecure about
tooting your own horn a littlebit? Are you worried that I'm setting
you up? You know, what's goingon behind the scenes? So when you
respond like that, my nextquestion is, well, you just say you're
(44:52):
okay. Like, they were okay.What do you mean? Like, what would
be great, Fabio, what wouldmake you say, I hit some amazing
forehands today, John. Whatwould that have to look like for
you to say that? And now youhave to. You have to process and
answer that question. And youmight come back and say, no, you
know what? I am really happyabout how I. Okay, we just had a
(45:16):
breakthrough. Did we not? Nowyou know that it's okay. Not. Not
just that it's okay, but Iwant you to acknowledge your wins,
because we already knowthey're going to be a lot of losses.
A lot of losses. Right. Theway that training is set up, you're
(45:37):
going to lose a lot because Ihave to take you out of and keep
you out of your comfort zonein order for you to improve. So they're
going to be a lot of losses.But how do you celebrate your wins?
Because that's the light atthe end of the tunnel. That's the
refueling station. Right? Thepit stop so you can get back on the
racetrack. If you don'tcelebrate your wins and you can't
(45:59):
even acknowledge them, this isgoing to come to a screeching halt
very fast. So that's a reallyexpanded but brief example of how
asking better questions comesinto play now on the player's side,
because that was, from thecoach's perspective, on the player's
(46:20):
side. If your forehand's goingin the net, why is it going in the
net? Well, it could be anynumber of reasons, right? So a better
question would be, am Ihitting my reference points? And
then you hit another forehand,and you'll have an answer to that
(46:40):
question. So now you've solvedit. It's two balls. First one went
in the net. Second one wasyou. You. You asked the question
after the first one, and thesecond one gave you an answer. So
now that's two mistakes.Instead of.
10. Game over.
(47:02):
Right. Just because you askeda good question, a quality question,
a question that would lead youto the acquisition of data that you
could then use to solve aproblem or overcome a challenge.
Yeah, because as a player, youknow, you're in difficult situations
all the time on court. You're,you know, trying to figure out a
(47:24):
plan. You're missing. Somedays it's windy, you're missing.
You do ask yourself a lot ofquestions, don't you? You're trying
to figure out what's wrong.And I can think. See, now, by asking
better questions, you canfigure stuff out a lot. You should
be able to figure stuff out alot quicker.
Exactly.
Which gets you back on track.
(47:44):
The human mind doesn't like avacuum. Have you heard that expression
before?
No. No.
So the human mind doesn't likea vacuum. It'll have to fill it with
something. So in. In thiscontext, we're not talking about
a tangible vacuum. We'retalking about a space where there's
(48:05):
a need for an answer or aninput, but there isn't one there.
So the brain has to findsomething to put there because it
won't keep that space empty.It doesn't like placeholders. Okay,
so if I'm asking a question,that's a prompt I'm programming myself
(48:26):
to now. Scan and find whatneeds to go in that spot. Now, there's
no mystery. The space isfilled and I can move on. Now, that
may not be the right answer. Imay be close, but it may not be the
right answer. But I. But nowI'm in the ballpark, Right? When
(48:47):
that doesn't happen, fear,indecision, anxiety sets in. If the
space is there, as long as thespace is there, any one of those
three things is present. Iguarantee you, you think about every
situation you've been in whereyou. You delved into the unknown
and you either had fear,anxiety, or indecision.
(49:12):
Yeah, it's all snow, but thenit's a snowball and avalanche, and
you're in trouble then.
And if one of those thingspops up, it's very difficult to be
successful in that moment withany one of those things present.
If you're indecisive, yourswing speed is going to slow down.
Yeah. You're no longer present.
(49:33):
Right. Exactly. Exactly.You're distracted. You're taken away
from what you need to befocused on.
Yeah. The good quote. I'm notsure who it's by. Is it Agassi or.
The best thing tennis playerscan have is a short is a memory.
Problem like, you know, shortmemory, where they can just. I know
it's slightly different whatwe're talking about, but just forget
about things. And you may notbe answering the question, but you're
(49:56):
forgetting about things andmoving on.
Exactly. At least you're notcarrying the past forward.
Yeah, yeah, yes. And that'sinteresting. And John, I'm going
to end with this question. Ifyou've been around tennis a while,
you've seen the ups and downs,you know, you've covered a lot of
areas. What is. Well, is thereanything you'd change in tennis if
(50:17):
you were to CEO tennis today?
Yes, I would change thenecessity for players to be forced
to basically play almost allyear long in order to maintain and
achieve ranking levels. Thatwould, that would probably be the
(50:42):
first thing because that willhave a. That's an umbrella that covers
mental health by majority, itcovers physical health by majority.
I think it covers the qualityby majority because I think if you
(51:04):
had players that were a bitmore well rested, bit more mentally
fresh, they come into eventsin a much better space and are able
to produce a higher level ofquality for the duration of the event.
And when you have theseplayers cycling in and out now overall
(51:25):
as a sport, you've elevatedthe quality of the sport. I think
Anna Samova has a perfectexample of that. Coming into Wimbledon.
If you look at what she playedprior to the, the volume of tennis
that she played prior to, shewas relatively fresh physically,
(51:48):
yes, but also psychologicallyand emotionally. So she came in ready
to compete and we saw a greatrun by her, an outstanding level
of play and qualityperformance. And I think we could
see that a lot more. The crazything is if you look at the top players
(52:14):
and you look at how much, howthey choose their schedule, we see
that, we've seen that for along time now. So this is not a new
concept. The only differenceis they're going to semifinals, finals,
every tournament they play. Sotheir points and ranking is such
that it affords them theability to miss a week here, to take
(52:37):
time off here without droppingtoo far in the ranking points and
suffering any significantnegative consequences.
Is it a bit of chicken and eggfor maybe not the top, top players,
but like a bit lower thanrank, let's say like 5 to 30 or 40,
where they could take moretime off, they can take. There's
(52:59):
nothing stopping them takingmore time off really, is there? I
know they may get fined ifcertain minimum tournaments to play,
they've maybe sponsoredobligations, but ultimately they
could take a bit more time offto work on the little things they
have to work on, do trainingblocks or take holidays and which
would make them fresher toplay. Is there a fear there, do you
(53:19):
think with some players that,you know, I got to be playing every
week, the forehand goes if Idon't play every week. Do you think
that's a bit of it as well? Ithink as a, as an amateur player,
I find that if I don't playevery week, I lose my groove. So
these guys and girls, thebest. Do you see it, do you hear
it? That, you know, I have toplay every week because my forehand's
(53:40):
going to go back and is goingto go or whatever. So fear. Is fear
something that stops them fromplaying every week?
I think that's a majorcomponent, Fabio, to be honest, I
think fear is a majorcomponent to that, to that driving.
There's also, you know, thefear of not just that their form
(54:01):
is going to go off, but thatsomebody else is going to move up
or get better or pass them.Right. And I think that there's a
healthy balance to that. Butgenerally if you're operating from
a place of fear, then you'renot operating in a, in a really productive
or optimal fashion, regardlessof what we're talking about.
(54:24):
Yeah, because look, I'vespoken to enough where it's pro.
Look, we're process driven,trust the process. And is there not
a bit in the process that saysI think you need to take a month
off here? I think that's theonly bit they don't trust where if
they're told, look, you needtime off here because we, as you
said, Ansimova had some timeoff, Sinner had some time off. He's
(54:45):
so fresh. At Wimbledon,Alcaraz looked a bit tired. At Wimbledon,
players get injured, they comeback from injury, they're fresh.
And so, yeah, look, I agreewith you on the resting and you're
right, ATP Tour, WTA Tourcould be doing something more to
help out the lower rankedplayers to force them to take some
time off.
(55:05):
I think Sinner had a perfectexample leading into Rome. He had
a nice little vacation thereleading into Rome. He could get up,
you know, what was it, a 8week, 12 week training block? I don't
remember how much time he hadoff, but who gets that?
They don't get it like theygot at Covid. They got it at Covid.
(55:26):
So 2020 was the last time theygot that, which some players thought
was great, by the way, becausethey got to work on certain parts
of their game. But it's beenfive. Nobody else has got it since
apart from Sinner. Maybe IGAgot it a little bit as well. I'm
not sure if she was off for awhile, but yeah.
Anyway, she missed the Asia swing.
Yeah. So, yeah, you know,she's, I won't say now she's reaped
(55:50):
the repercussions of itbecause, yeah, I think she was the
fastest server in Wimbledon.Female. I think she was hitting the
biggest serves, which, youknow, like our serve as a target
before and now all of a suddenshe's become an assassin with the
serve, which is, which is kindof crazy, right? Yeah.
Right.
Been a pleasure. I've learneda lot today and great to, great to
(56:14):
get a different view oncoaching, so thank you very much.
Yeah, I love it, man. I'mhappy to do it. Thanks for having
me.
Sam.
Popular Podcasts
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!