July 28, 2025 • 33 mins
In this episode, I chat with 17-year-old American wheelchair tennis player Charlie Cooper, a rising star who’s already claimed 2 junior wheelchair singles Grand Slam titles.
Born with spina bifida, Charlie’s journey into tennis started with local clinics and has now taken him to the top levels of junior competition. He shares how making the decision to go full-time in 2023 completely changed his development, both mentally and physically.
We talk about the improvements he’s seen since going all in, the structure of wheelchair tennis, his tournament experiences, and what he hopes to achieve in the future.
Key topics:
• How going full-time helped Charlie raise his level
• What a typical training week looks like for him
• Differences in mindset between juniors and pros
• How wheelchair tennis works at the top level
• His goals for the coming season
A super insightful conversation for tennis fans and players alike.
Fabio
This podcast is sponsored by ASICS. ASICS is a Japanese company founded in 1949 to give more people the opportunity to experience how sports and movement can have a positive impact on mental well-being.
To learn more about ASICS visit their website here: https://www.asics.com/nl/en-nl/sports/tennis/
Find us on Social Media:
Instagram: Instagram.com/FunctionalTennis
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:24):
Welcome to the Function TennisPodcast Broke brought to you by ASICS
Tennis.
And I'm your host, Fabio Motley.
And I bring you insights andlessons from players, coaches, parents
and experts who are ingrainedin the world of high level tennis.
Today I'm joined by CharlieCooper, a rising 17 year old American
wheelchair tennis talent bornwith spina bifida.
(00:45):
Charlie's story is one ofresilience, passion and purpose.
He'll take us from discoveringtennis in his youth to navigating
life with a disability tobecoming a US and Australian championship
Junior Open champion.
We dig into how he buildsconfidence, handles setbacks, and
what it's like competing andinspiring on a global stage.
This episode is full of gritand inspiration for players, coaches,
(01:07):
parents and anyone whobelieves in the power of sport.
Here's Charlie.
Charlie, welcome to theFunctional Tennis Podcast.
How are you?
Good.
Thanks for having me.
It's awesome.
I love your enthusiasm.
I saw some videos and yeah,where do you get this enthusiasm
and energy from?
It's amazing.
Yeah, yeah.
Growing up, you know, my dadalways told me, you know, you'll
(01:28):
be happy around others and,you know, always feel like, you know,
you're just like everyone elsehaving a disability.
So for me, you know, I triedto leave that disability out of it,
having spina bifida, which Iwas born with.
And for me, you know,happiness was my way of life, you
know, figuring out throughhard times and surgeries, you know,
finding ways to be happy.
(01:49):
And once I found tennis, youknow, that, that helped my joy overall
and, you know, I think that'shelped me with my confidence today.
Were you not as happy before tennis?
There was a tough time aroundnine years old when I was in surgeries
and I was pretty, I was homeby myself a lot, you know, playing
video games.
Back then I was before tennis.
So there's some quiet timesfor sure, but I was always enthusiastic,
(02:14):
you know, playing worshipmusic growing up and playing other
sports like T ball as I walkwith leg braces when I was young.
And maybe for our listenerswho don't know what spina bifida
is, maybe can you explain tothem what it is?
Yeah.
Spina bifida is a birth defectin the spine and yeah, in the back.
And a lot of kids are bornwith it and it affects, you know,
(02:34):
certain areas on the body.
For me, I lost feeling under,under my knee level and I also can't
move really anything under there.
And so that made me wear leg braces.
And when I was born, thedoctors told me I wouldn't Be able
to walk.
So a lot of kids hear thataround the world.
And I'm blessed to be able towalk with leg braces as I did pretty
(02:56):
much my whole life.
I went to private schoolwalking around just like anyone else
doing physical education classes.
So I was a pretty active kid.
And as part of it comes in allforms, some people are not able to
walk and they're inwheelchairs immediately.
So it's definitely a reallycommon disability in the United States,
for sure.
And yeah, that it was, it was.
(03:18):
From birth for me on a day today basis.
So do you walk around?
Yeah, I'd say no.
If I go to like a restaurantor something, you know, I'll walk.
But if it's, if it's longdistances or, you know, going to
Disneyland, you know, I'mdefinitely going to use a chair or
even around tournaments,you'll see me in a wheelchair for
sure.
Okay.
When did tennis, when did thelove of tennis start for you?
(03:38):
When did you first set youreye on a tennis court and play?
Yeah, so I was not born into atennis family, me and my dad, he
played high school tennisgrowing up, but he wasn't that good.
And my mom never played before.
So I lived three minutes fromthe tennis garden in New Wall Tennis
Garden growing up, which is acrazy coincidence.
So.
(03:58):
And I used to go there when Iwas younger and you know, I remember
watching Roger Federer beforeI even played tennis and he was huge
for me.
So I, I started the sport randomly.
I was at a guitar shop at 9years old.
Like I said, I played worshipmusic growing up.
And I met a kid with spinabifida as well.
And he told me about a clinicgoing on that Friday.
Me and my mom were there andshe told me I should try it out.
(04:20):
And I thought it was crazybecause, like, I'd never been in
a wheelchair before that maybein the hospital.
And I always thought thatwalking was, you know, the one thing
that I wanted since thedoctors told me I wouldn't be able
to.
So doing that was the miracleand I wanted to stay with it.
But then I thought wheelchairattendance was going back in the
wrong direction.
And I tried it out and I feltso, so fast.
(04:42):
And I went to a tournament forthe first time and everyone was disabled.
And it was insane because Ithink the Valley, there's not too
many people with disabilitiesout here in Palm Springs.
So it was a huge eye opener.
But that community of peoplebeing disabled and being able to
play competitive sport becausethat's what I wanted to Do.
I wanted to be an NBA player,NFL, but I couldn't with this disability.
(05:03):
So it really changed.
And now I'm playing at the USOpen, playing at the show and open
next to all these stars andchampions, and I'm just like them.
And it's.
It's amazing.
Wait, you're winning the US Open?
You're winning the Australia?
It's a bit different.
It's a bit different.
But how did you push through?
So how did you get through?
So how old were you then?
(05:23):
Nine, ten?
Yeah, I was around nine years old.
And now you're 17?
Yeah.
So over those years, how haveyou progressed?
How have you got better?
Where have you trained andwhen was there a day you realized,
I'm actually quite good atthis, I can be professional?
Yeah.
So in the beginning, I startedwith a coach named Dwayne Begay.
(05:45):
He's a big coach out here inthe desert, and I've been with him
for the whole eight years,which is crazy.
He's been huge for me, and I'mon that path.
I've been going to the USAnational campus in Orlando or coaches
named Jason Hartnett, and wealso been working with the best player
of all time named ShingoKenneda, who's.
(06:06):
He's won 25 single slams,which is crazy.
And he's, you know, almostlike my assistant coach out there.
So I've been going back andforth between the desert and Orlando,
and being around people likeBen Shelton, too, is amazing because
you have that wholeenvironment, and there are some tough
moments along the path, for sure.
And I think for me, I've juststarted, you know, really digging
(06:28):
in.
Last year, I was going toschool in high school in person,
and playing Junior Masters,the La Petitas, which we also partake
in.
I played last year.
It was my last one.
And I remember I was talkingto my mom, and I lost a few tough
matches to the juniors.
That was in January.
(06:49):
And she was like, you know, ifyou really want to take all the weight,
you got to go online.
You got to dedicate more toit, you know, and that was my dream.
You know, I'm not, I, I, Iknew that.
You know, I feel like God gaveme this disability for a reason.
So I wanted to go all in with it.
You know, why not?
And my parents fully supported me.
They're amazing.
And so I, I took it seriouslythen, and I think that whole year.
(07:09):
I won my first men'stournament in July of last year,
and that was, that was a hugeset for me as I'VE been playing juniors
most of the time and the workstarted to pay off.
And then once I won that USOpen for the first time, being the
same juniors I lost to inJanuary, it was, it was, I think
that was the eye opener whereit's, you know, I really see how
the work, what the work can doand, you know, and the dreams I want
(07:33):
to do in the future and that'splaying the men's Grand Slams and
I want to win it.
So that, that was the eyeopener for me.
And it really shows, you know,how much time you got to dedicate
for sure.
And that was something I did.
I didn't think I had to do before.
You know, we had to talk to my mom.
So you're full time now?
No, school.
Sorry.
Online.
(07:53):
Online.
Online school.
Okay.
Yeah.
And so what's your typicaltraining day like now?
How many hours you're on court?
Yeah, so now I'm going to bein Orlando full time.
So it's pretty crazy days there.
We do two hours in the morningand then an hour workout and then
another two hour.
So it's almost around sixhours a day.
It's like a, you know, we goto like a 9 to 5.
(08:15):
So it's crazy.
And we go every day.
We go half day on Saturday andthen no nothing on Sunday.
So it's, it's pretty stackedschedule and it's something I wasn't
doing before, for sure.
You know, and having all thesethings for us and at the campus,
like the best coaches andShingo and I get to train a lot of
other we tennis players too,which, which is awesome.
(08:36):
And so getting, getting thatconstant play is huge, especially
in the wheelchair sport.
It's, you know, it's becomingso competitive now where you have
to do that if you want to bethe best.
So yeah, that's like myschedule is.
Your training split inbetween, like, I don't know, technique
and sort of basket work andthen match play.
Do you do that throughout the day?
Yeah, I'd say the mornings areusually more technical and with a
(08:58):
lot of baskets and.
And then the afternoon we gomatch play pretty much all the time.
What's fitness look like foryou guys?
Yeah, so we're definitely notalways in the gym every day, so most
of it's upper body, as you know.
But at the campus we like towork with our legs too.
And I'm blessed to be morelike I have a lot of ability in my
(09:18):
legs.
So once we get that, you know,I use my legs to push down on the
foot plate.
So when I serve, I'm pushingthe energy almost into the ground.
Just like, you know, you'restanding up.
So we do, we do squats.
I know that sounds crazy.
Yeah, it does.
We almost hit leg days a lot, but.
And then we'll also go on the,onto the track outside and do pushing
(09:39):
drills because mobility is thebiggest part of the game of wheelchair
tennis.
And then we'll go inside anddo spider, spider drills around cones
and different things like that.
And so we mix it up a lot.
But yeah, mostly it's in thegym or outside.
And you see, you said you, BenShelton to be around there.
What have you learnedAnything, Anything sparring from
(10:00):
Ben?
Yeah, the biggest thing I'velearned, I've watched a few practices
just how intense he is.
You know, he's, he's alwaysgrunting in practice, you know, maybe
louder than the match.
And he's, he's just so intense.
So then once he gets on thatmatch, it's, it's just the same thing.
And I think that's huge forpeople practicing because sometimes,
you know, we relax too muchand especially when you're on the
clay, you got to be grindingand it really shows because, you
(10:23):
know, what you're doing outthere in the Florida heat is it makes
it easy for the match.
So that's the biggest thing Ilearned from him.
And you, sorry, you say nowyou're in Orlando, by the way, you're
from Indian Wales area, thedesert over there.
So are you relocating fulltime to Orlando by yourself or is
your family moving also?
Yeah, so we just bought ahouse, so my whole family's going
(10:45):
as well.
My sister's, she's 13 now, soshe'll go to school there.
So it's a big life, whole lifemove west to east coast.
It's crazy, but I love it there.
My parents do too, so it'sgonna be fun.
Did your sister play tennis now?
She tried to at the tennisgarden, but it's not a thing.
I think she's more of avolleyball player.
(11:06):
And you know, like I said, myparents didn't really play either,
so it's nothing really.
Was running the family.
But maybe I'll be the start.
Maybe.
Yeah, bro, you're on.
You're on the way.
And growing up, who was yourtennis star growing up?
I'd definitely say RogerFederer for sure.
I just, I just love the way hecompeted and I feel like just, just
(11:26):
the word, the words, like theaura, the aura around him, you know,
as I wasn't really playing tennis.
But I, I knew who he was and Isaw him win.
Everybody loved him, so.
And I, I had the, you know,the honor to meet him at the US Open
this last year, which was huge.
And it felt like my world stopped.
You know, I, I looked up tohim so much, and to hear him, you
know, before my final, hesaid, good luck, champ.
(11:48):
And that was like the biggestthing for me.
Maybe that helped me win too,but that was a, you know, full circle
moment as growing up.
As a kid, I never playedtennis, but I looked up to him.
And then, you know, makingends meet and seeing him as a player
is.
Is different.
So it was awesome.
And plus, you got the onehander too.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, that's amazing.
(12:09):
So they just take it forwardto winning.
So you won the US Open last year.
You won Australia this year, French.
Did you get to the final?
Yeah.
Did you win the dubs in French?
And then did you.
I'm not sure if actually youplayed Wimbledon or not.
Did you play Wimbledon?
No.
So they don't have juniorsthere yet.
(12:31):
They're just starting to addall the Grand Slams for juniors,
which is a huge step.
It started back in 2022.
The US Open was the first, sothey're starting to add that now.
And.
But you know, I'm making thattransition, as I said, to the men's.
And this is my last year ofjuniors, but right now I'm currently
looking hopefully to get awild card into the US Open, which
would be first program slam.
(12:51):
And so I'm, I'm lookingforward to that, and if not, I'll
play juniors again.
But it's pretty excitingthings ahead.
Can you play both?
I. I don't know.
It.
It hasn't come up yet.
You know, I don't think thatsituation's happened yet, but.
And I don't know, what was itlike winning the US Open last year?
Like, were you going into thetournament, did you think I could
(13:11):
win this?
Or was it, you know, you startbelieving it throughout the tournament,
throughout the event, and thenwhat changed?
Or did anything change afterwards?
Looking back at it?
Yeah, I had, I had a littlewinning streak going in singles,
and it was, like I said, themen's tournaments was helping my
confidence extremely.
And so once I got into the USOpen, I mean, what I was thinking
(13:34):
about is all the work I wasputting in.
I think that helped my confidence.
As before, I would show upand, you know, maybe hope to win
or hope to be close.
You know, I wasn't trustingwhat I was doing because I wasn't
spending as much time on thecourt as I am now.
So I had.
I had a lot of coaches aroundme, supporting staff.
You know, my coach from my.
From here, Dwayne Begay, cameand he supported me.
(13:57):
I had my urologist show upfrom when I was a child, and that
was.
That was pretty crazy.
And he got to watch me play.
So I feel like all the supportaround me, you really, really helped
me, you know, want to win andwant to win for them and everyone
that's ever supported me.
So this year felt different,for sure.
And.
Or this last year.
And, yeah, I went in there thefirst round.
(14:18):
First round was three sets.
It was pretty close, and I wassuper nervous because I had the feeling,
you know, I don't want to losefirst round.
You know, I've been workingthis whole year for this, you know,
and I also work with a mental.
A mental strength specialist.
You know, he.
He helps me so much, and with those.
With those things that go onmy head like that, you know, everyone
(14:38):
has them.
So he was huge, too, and hegot to watch me play.
So, like I said, you know, allthe work going in and, you know,
believing.
Believing that I could win andbelieving that God had this plan
for me, you know, win or lose,you know, there's still a plan.
And I think, you know, so manypeople came out for that final, and
I think so many younger kidswith disabilities, and I think it
(14:58):
was all part of the plan, youknow, having a US Player there and
playing in the final, and Ithink I inspired a lot of people,
and that's my biggest thing.
I want to do more than the winning.
You know, it's having thoseyounger players come up.
And, you know, I want to belike you.
And so that.
That's the biggest thing forme, and that's what inspired me to
win the US Open, I think.
And, you know, getting thattrophy, that winning feeling was.
(15:19):
Was everything.
Everything that year, youknow, paid off.
And, you know, there's so muchahead, but that's probably the biggest
moment in my life so far.
So that is.
That is deep root in you is a goal.
Your job is to inspire morewheelchair players.
For sure.
That's.
It's a big undertaking, but,you know, you're starting young,
so I'm gonna wish you all thebest in that.
(15:41):
That's gonna be fun chat.
Obviously, you've startedwell, and you're ranked about 65
in the world now.
Yeah, so I just won atournament this four days ago in
Vancouver.
It was Like a pro tournament.
And yeah, so I think I'm backup to like 50 now, on the rise.
So I keep trying to get up there.
But yeah, there's a lot ofgood, a lot of top players that come
(16:04):
out here to the US and for us,you know, we have to travel to Europe
more because, you know, youdon't get like two tournaments in
the same place out here in theUS like you can on maybe challengers
or so.
So there's a lot of travelingthat has to be done in the sport.
Is the level like that?
Is it like a Futureschallenger and, and like a Master's
level, then a Slam?
It's similar to the ADP andWTA Tour.
(16:28):
Yeah, I say it's prettysimilar if you put it in this perspective.
And the news is a few days agothey just confirmed that they're
changing the tour next yearand they're making a premier tour.
So we're going to have eventsat Miami, Indian Wells for a top
group and then we're going tobe having more of a challenger group
to try to get in.
And so I think I'll be takingpart of that middle section trying
(16:50):
to get in there.
So it's huge.
And like you said, I thinkit's going to make it more easy to
understand now they'restarting to name the tournaments
the same, maybe having thename of the points like in a thousand
instead of.
We call it Super Series right now.
So making it, making it moreunderstandable for the average tennis
follower.
And how many people in it?
Let's say, let's say it's on a Miami.
(17:11):
How many people in a draw in atop tier event?
Yeah, so it's probably goingto start at like 16, which is, you
know, I know that this, itsounds pretty small, but again, there's
not millions of wheelchairplayers out there right now.
So.
Yeah, and I, I think it's,it's, it's not hard to jump up in
literature, tennis.
You know, anything could happen.
You know, you have playerslike his name, Taquito Oda, the world
(17:33):
number one, who's, I thinkhe's 20 now or 19 and he was world
number one at 17.
So it's really, you know, ifyou get good at the movement and
you have a lot of ability, youcould, you could really jump up there
pretty quick.
And obviously you got to be areally good tennis player and got
to put the work in.
But you know, I, I thinkstarting to see big jumps now and
I hope, you know, to be the next.
(17:54):
Yeah, you gotta Aim big.
Aim big.
Yeah, that's right.
And you know, for me, I'd sayI go to the.
I go to a few tournaments.
I find traveling, you know,first term it's okay.
And then travel.
Travel becomes quite tough, traveling.
But for you it's even harder.
How.
How do you deal with that?
Are UK traveling or do youfind it hard?
Yeah, it's definitely harder.
You're traveling with twowheelchairs because, you know, I
(18:15):
have my everyday chair andthen a sports wheelchair and you
know, sometimes they get lostand that's like the worst.
The worst thing that could happen.
Has that happened?
It's so bad.
I've had it happen.
But I'm busting up.
Not.
Not before.
Not like when I ride to a tournament.
So I've been.
I've been lucky there.
But when I get home, I've hada loss for like three days and it
doesn't show up.
And so it's.
(18:35):
It's crazy.
And I definitely got betterfor sure.
But you'll see a lot of theplayers around, around the world
in Lucha Tennis, they have bigboxes, like hard, hard shell boxes
for the chair because theyalso get broken on the plane as expect.
And so it's definitely hardtraveling with two wheelchairs.
But, you know, I like.
Regardless of that, you know,I love flying.
(18:56):
I think.
I think it's like one of myfavorite things.
I like it more than car driving.
The cars just make me sick.
But when I'm on the plane, Ijust listen to music.
I fall asleep really easily.
So I love that part of it.
But you know, definitely goingfrom one place to another is hard,
you know, and sometimes I missbeing home, being with my.
Being with my mom and my sister.
(19:17):
My dad travels me a lot, youknow, around the world.
So it's.
That part's tough.
But, you know, the flying andstuff, you know, I could do that
all day.
And does then.
Does anybody ever have two wheelchairs?
Just in case that was to happen?
Imagine you're traveling toWimbledon or to New York.
And does anybody actuallytravel like that?
I. I haven't seen that yet.
(19:38):
I think that's.
That would be kind of extreme.
But I could.
I.
Maybe in the future I couldsee something like that happening.
But a lot person bring anotherpair of wheels.
So a whole.
A whole wheel.
Which.
So, yeah, not just the tire,but so like something goes wrong,
they just take it out of thebag and plop it right on.
So I. I don't.
I don't do that.
I.
Only a few players, maybe oneor Two right now.
(19:59):
And it just, you know, you'rejust adding more to the travel.
So it's rough, but yeah.
And on, during a match, cananything, I know, you know, you can
break a string, break aracket, your shoes probably don't
break.
But for you, from a technicalperspective with your wheelchair,
can anything actually breakthat you can't fix or do you actually
have a tool bag with you?
(20:20):
Yeah.
So most tournaments that theyall have a mechanic.
So if something breaks, if atire pops, you got like a 20 minute
period.
It's almost like a medicaltimeout, but they add it for this.
So yeah, you get 20 minutes.
But I've had it in doubleswhere my partners, one of his tire
pops and it takes I think 15minutes to get that changed.
(20:40):
And we get back on the court,the other tire pops.
And so they try to do as fastas they can.
It takes like six minutes andwe get like a point penalty because
we go over the time.
And so that, that was probablythe craziest thing I've seen so far.
But yeah, we have, we havemechanics and everything and people
that are pretty quick and geton the court, change the tire really
(21:01):
quick.
So yeah, you know, we don'tusually have to do it ourselves.
That, that would be rough.
Yeah, that would be rough.
And tell me, does playing atthe higher level, so let's say you're
top 20 in the world, does itpay the bills?
Is, is there a cut off whereit actually pays the bills?
And we all know tennisexpensive, we all know like DPWA
level.
Unless you're top 100, youknow, you're barely breaking even.
(21:24):
Is there a break even pointfor you guys?
I say around the top 16 levelfor sure because that's the Grand
Slam cut off.
And you know, once you get inthe Grand Slams, then you're making
prize money and it's going upnow for sure.
And it's amazing to see howtheir prize money is increasing.
And obviously it's not like,you know, stand up tennis, but you
(21:46):
know, I think most of it'smore like endorsements and that kind
of things.
Obviously, I think that thathelps more and you know, having,
you know, likable charactersand having good stories is what's
important.
So yeah, I think thatcombination's, you know, the key
to, you know, making a livingon the tour.
And I know tennis, you know,in general is hard to make money
(22:08):
on tour, so there's definitelygot to be more, more in this sport
than just the tennis.
You know, you gotta, you gottaBe doing other things for sure, and
having to, you know, being marketable.
And so I think, you know,that's what I'm trying to, you know,
make sure I do well in the future.
And, you know, if you want toplay the sport, you gotta find ways,
you know, to, to market yourself.
So I think that's, that,that's the biggest thing.
(22:29):
But prize money's going up a ton.
You know, U.S. open is, youknow, putting a lot of money into
it, which is amazing.
So, Yeah, I just saw it there.
Wimbledon was about 70,000sterling, just under for the winner,
which is not really a lot fora professional athlete winning a
Grand Slam.
So I think they have a bit ofwork to do there.
By the time you pay yourtaxes, that's half of that.
(22:51):
So.
Yeah, you're right.
But it's good to see it'sincreasing and that, that's good.
That's good to know.
So you just got to play moretournaments, get out there and win
more.
That's right.
Because I'm sure even from acost perspective for you, flying
to tournaments where you'veall these bigger bags, you know,
you've.
Wait.
I'm not sure if they chargefor the wheelchairs or not, but it's.
(23:14):
It gets pretty expensive.
Right.
Right.
Yeah, it gets really expensive.
And, you know, I'm blessed.
You know, my parents have, youknow, been, you know, fund me and,
and I still, I. Yeah, still.
I'm still 17, live with them.
So.
Yeah, and the USA helps us, too.
They'll give us, give usgrants to be able to do this.
(23:34):
These things too.
So that, that's huge.
And.
But yeah, I know a lot ofplayers around the world, you know,
maybe can't afford is.
Is for tennis.
You know, it's really hardtennis by itself.
But now you have thewheelchair, like you said, and that's.
Some of those are like $15,000.
You know, they're almost likebuying a motorcycle.
So it's, it's crazy.
(23:54):
And.
But yeah, I'd say, I say it'sgetting better and with this premier
tour, like I said, and, youknow, having Miami, any wells, that
just means more prize moneyfor, for players.
And that means you'll see someof us coming up, you know, maybe
players that didn't think theywould be able to make money now are,
you know, you know, coming outand we're hungry, you know, players
that, you know, need it.
Yeah.
(24:14):
And are you, are you Nike sponsored?
Yeah.
No, not, not officially, but,you know, just.
I just wear the clothes and,and everything and I'll use Yonex
so they, they support me too.
Yeah.
What Yonex do you use?
People always ask and haveplayers on.
I never ask them what racketthey use and we get listeners saying
what racket do you use?
What racket to use?
(24:35):
Which Yonex?
I use the EZO98 and what string.
And actually tension do you have?
So I use the Polytour spin inthe mains and then Polytor Pro and
the crosses.
It's like the Casparid style and.
Yeah, and I actually use anezone from was it 2020.
(24:58):
So I don't use the newest oneand Yeah, I don't know if I'm allowed
to say that but.
Yes, but I've been using thatracket for a long time.
Yeah, but what tension?
Same, same as the ordinarytennis is the what tension you string
at?
Yeah, 48 pounds.
Just both.
I, I tried switching it up,going 3 lower in the crosses and
(25:19):
no, I just stick with 48.
And is the ball you use theexact same ball as a normal ball?
Yeah, the exact same ballsactually string rackets, you know,
everything and.
Okay.
I think though you will see onthe top, you know some players are
using really light racketslike Takeda oda is using 100L, which
is something you wouldn't seetoo much and stand up and I think
(25:41):
that helps, you know getting,getting a little more, a little more
whip or getting off the wheelfaster because you know we have to
push with the racket in thehand and then taking it up and swinging.
So if you have a really heavyracket, you know your forearms are
going to be cooked.
You know, you're not going tobe able to move that long.
So I, I'm good with mine at305 right now and I, I don't know
(26:02):
what it is with the string butit's, it's not that heavy.
And but like you said, you'llsee people with 285 grand rackets
and it's kind of crazy but Ithink that's, that's kind of where
the sport is.
Yeah, there's a reason for it.
What's your, what's your hero shot?
What's your, what are youknown for?
Me?
Yeah.
So my, my hero shot is theback end down the line.
(26:25):
You know in winter tennis weall have one handed back ends.
You know, we're like RogerFederers everyone.
And I learned that mainly fromShingo Kenneda.
Like I said, one of the bestplayers of all time and that's his
Favorite shot, too.
So he's really coached me onhow to hit it the best.
And I feel like in the sportnow, Lucha tennis, it's pretty much
(26:45):
the first to find the line.
It's hard.
We can't sidestep, and wecan't get to the other side that
fast.
And especially, I feel likethe returner always has the advantage
in this sport unless you havean amazing serve.
But yeah, it's just so hard toserve and get to the other side of
the court right away, becausesometimes your chair, you know, it
stops after the serve.
(27:07):
And so for me, you know, like,going down the line right, right
on the return, or being the,maybe the second shot in the rally
just to, you know, switch itup and have the move across.
So that, that's my favorite shot.
And I, I.
People call me Mini Shingo forit, so it's cool.
It's like, it's like, it's.
It's your wrong foot and shot,really, isn't it?
I know a different name, but,yeah, that's, that's, that's interesting.
(27:29):
So in your young career, whatdo you feel has been your biggest
challenge so far to get whereyou are today?
I think the biggest challengefor me yet to get where I was was,
yeah, definitely.
I've said before tennis wasthe surgeries, and that is kind of
developed to how I am today.
And I think around, let's see,I was probably around 8 years old
(27:51):
or 7 to 8, and I was justmissing the transition into first
grade, which is huge.
And I feel like, you know, mysocial skills weren't as good.
You know, I. I didn't reallyhave friends then.
And yeah, like I said, I waskind of lonely at home.
And I feel like I, I still hadfaith in faith in God, and that's
huge for me.
(28:12):
And that with having thatfaith helped me get back into it
and having believed thateverything would be okay, you know,
and everything would.
There would be a plan for me.
And from that belief at ayoung age, it helped me getting back
into school, making friendsright away.
And I think that's part of mebeing really friendly and having
a gift from God.
Not letting the surgeriesaffect me, because sometimes you
(28:34):
might have mental trauma from those.
And to be honest, all that'swalked out.
I really can't tell you.
I don't remember anything fromit, which is crazy.
I just remember the taste ofthe medicines, so it's crazy.
I feel like that's developedhow I am today.
You know, having that beliefin God is is crazy, because now I
could lose a tennis match and be.
And be like.
Like I said, Roland Garros, Ilost the final.
(28:56):
And I was.
I was really sad because thatwas my last time to do it in juniors,
and I wanted to go 3 for 3,like, with all the Grand Slams, and
so y' all sitting on thesideline, and I could have been like,
you know, why?
Like, why, why.
Why did this happen to me?
You know, but instead I wasmore, you know, thank you, God, for
allowing me to play.
And I said it in the out, youknow, on court, you know, microphone,
(29:17):
trophy ceremony, you know,taking God first, that's huge for
me.
And so if God could get methrough the surgeries and make me
a tennis player, you know, howGod could take a loss and make something
great out of it.
And I feel like that'ssomething that's helped me massively,
and it's held my belief, and Ihope I'll always stay with that the
(29:38):
rest of my life.
So the good skill you have,that's good attitude and a good skill
because it's a mental skill.
So it will make you go far.
And are you surgery wise, barn.
God forbid, any injuries.
But are you actually finishedall your surgeries, or will there
be more surgeries at some stage?
Yeah, right now, I'm prettymuch finished, you know, unless something
(30:00):
happens.
But I'm.
I'm.
Yeah, I don't have anythinggoing on.
You know, I'm blessed thatlife is good, you know, how do you
have a disability?
And I. I'm.
I love.
You know, obviously there'ssome challenges, but, yeah, yeah,
I've learned to, you know, To.
To realize it's for a reason.
And.
And, you know, we havedisability for a reason.
And so.
So, yeah, I.
(30:21):
That, yeah, there's nothingreally coming up.
So, yeah, I'm.
Finally.
My last question is, whatadvice do you have for other people
in wheelchairs who want topursue a career in tennis?
Yeah, I'd say the advice forthem is, you know, you have to give
it a go.
You know, it might seem.
It might seem crazy at firstwe went to tennis, but, you know,
once you watch the top playersand see them competing, you know,
(30:44):
it really opens up crazy doors.
And you get to be next toNovak Djokovic, you know, in a gym,
warning up for an AustralianOpen final, like I once did, and
it's.
It's amazing.
And, you know, if you don'tgive it a shot, you know, you never
know where you could be.
And like I said, I wanted toBe an NBA player and NFL player,
but, you know, I couldn't.
So finding this was that doorfor me.
(31:06):
And now I want to make surethat I'm giving back to everyone
and hope everybody has a fairchance to find the sport.
This is amazing.
And, you know, tennis is hard,for sure, but, like, you know, I
never played growing up, butI, you know, I found it and, you
know, I loved it.
I love competing.
I love the let's Gos, and thatwas a big for me.
So, yeah, just, you know, goout and try it.
That's my, that's my advice.
(31:26):
That's amazing.
I totally forgot, actually,that, you know, if you're getting
to finals, you're there whenJockovich is there.
Alcross is there the bestplayers around.
I know there's less people there.
There's not that many peoplearound anymore, so you probably better
chance of bumping into them.
Do you ever speak to any of them?
Yeah, I, I, yes, I spoke toYannick Sinner in the, he was playing
(31:48):
Ben Shelton that day.
So I, I, I said good luck toboth of them.
But I, yeah, I was just like,good luck, man.
He's like, thanks, bro.
So I, I, we don't have, like,conversations like that, but, yeah,
probably, yeah, with RogerFederer, you know, we talked about,
you know, the, you know, he'sasked me if I was playing and all
that, and I say I was in the final.
So, yeah, you really get totalk to all these guys, and you're
(32:10):
right at the very end of thetournament, all the best guys are
there and no one else is.
So it's, it's awesome.
And, and I think a lot ofthem, you know, look up to us, too,
and how much work we have toput in.
And Djokovic is a goodambassador for that.
You know, he does a lot ofexhibitions for Luther Tennis, and
he talks about a lot, so he'sawesome, too.
(32:31):
And, yeah, so I think it willkeep growing like that and, you know,
the more juniors we get in thesport, you know, the more future
the game will have and, youknow, with this new tour is awesome
and, you know, I hope to be,you know, inspiring for them and,
you know, the next face of ustennis, and that'll be, that'll be
huge.
Charlie, thank you very muchfor jumping on.
Best luck next month in New York.
(32:52):
I'm excited to see how you geton and hopefully get that wild card
into the main draw.
So let's go.
Thanks.
I appreciate it, Sam.
Welcome to the Function TennisPodcast Broke brought to you by ASICS
Tennis.
And I'm your host, Fabio Motley.
And I bring you insights andlessons from players, coaches, parents
and experts who are ingrainedin the world of high level tennis.
Today I'm joined by CharlieCooper, a rising 17 year old American
wheelchair tennis talent bornwith spina bifida.
(00:45):
Charlie's story is one ofresilience, passion and purpose.
He'll take us from discoveringtennis in his youth to navigating
life with a disability tobecoming a US and Australian championship
Junior Open champion.
We dig into how he buildsconfidence, handles setbacks, and
what it's like competing andinspiring on a global stage.
This episode is full of gritand inspiration for players, coaches,
(01:07):
parents and anyone whobelieves in the power of sport.
Here's Charlie.
Charlie, welcome to theFunctional Tennis Podcast.
How are you?
Good.
Thanks for having me.
It's awesome.
I love your enthusiasm.
I saw some videos and yeah,where do you get this enthusiasm
and energy from?
It's amazing.
Yeah, yeah.
Growing up, you know, my dadalways told me, you know, you'll
(01:28):
be happy around others and,you know, always feel like, you know,
you're just like everyone elsehaving a disability.
So for me, you know, I triedto leave that disability out of it,
having spina bifida, which Iwas born with.
And for me, you know,happiness was my way of life, you
know, figuring out throughhard times and surgeries, you know,
finding ways to be happy.
(01:49):
And once I found tennis, youknow, that, that helped my joy overall
and, you know, I think that'shelped me with my confidence today.
Were you not as happy before tennis?
There was a tough time aroundnine years old when I was in surgeries
and I was pretty, I was homeby myself a lot, you know, playing
video games.
Back then I was before tennis.
So there's some quiet timesfor sure, but I was always enthusiastic,
(02:14):
you know, playing worshipmusic growing up and playing other
sports like T ball as I walkwith leg braces when I was young.
And maybe for our listenerswho don't know what spina bifida
is, maybe can you explain tothem what it is?
Yeah.
Spina bifida is a birth defectin the spine and yeah, in the back.
And a lot of kids are bornwith it and it affects, you know,
(02:34):
certain areas on the body.
For me, I lost feeling under,under my knee level and I also can't
move really anything under there.
And so that made me wear leg braces.
And when I was born, thedoctors told me I wouldn't Be able
to walk.
So a lot of kids hear thataround the world.
And I'm blessed to be able towalk with leg braces as I did pretty
(02:56):
much my whole life.
I went to private schoolwalking around just like anyone else
doing physical education classes.
So I was a pretty active kid.
And as part of it comes in allforms, some people are not able to
walk and they're inwheelchairs immediately.
So it's definitely a reallycommon disability in the United States,
for sure.
And yeah, that it was, it was.
(03:18):
From birth for me on a day today basis.
So do you walk around?
Yeah, I'd say no.
If I go to like a restaurantor something, you know, I'll walk.
But if it's, if it's longdistances or, you know, going to
Disneyland, you know, I'mdefinitely going to use a chair or
even around tournaments,you'll see me in a wheelchair for
sure.
Okay.
When did tennis, when did thelove of tennis start for you?
(03:38):
When did you first set youreye on a tennis court and play?
Yeah, so I was not born into atennis family, me and my dad, he
played high school tennisgrowing up, but he wasn't that good.
And my mom never played before.
So I lived three minutes fromthe tennis garden in New Wall Tennis
Garden growing up, which is acrazy coincidence.
So.
(03:58):
And I used to go there when Iwas younger and you know, I remember
watching Roger Federer beforeI even played tennis and he was huge
for me.
So I, I started the sport randomly.
I was at a guitar shop at 9years old.
Like I said, I played worshipmusic growing up.
And I met a kid with spinabifida as well.
And he told me about a clinicgoing on that Friday.
Me and my mom were there andshe told me I should try it out.
(04:20):
And I thought it was crazybecause, like, I'd never been in
a wheelchair before that maybein the hospital.
And I always thought thatwalking was, you know, the one thing
that I wanted since thedoctors told me I wouldn't be able
to.
So doing that was the miracleand I wanted to stay with it.
But then I thought wheelchairattendance was going back in the
wrong direction.
And I tried it out and I feltso, so fast.
(04:42):
And I went to a tournament forthe first time and everyone was disabled.
And it was insane because Ithink the Valley, there's not too
many people with disabilitiesout here in Palm Springs.
So it was a huge eye opener.
But that community of peoplebeing disabled and being able to
play competitive sport becausethat's what I wanted to Do.
I wanted to be an NBA player,NFL, but I couldn't with this disability.
(05:03):
So it really changed.
And now I'm playing at the USOpen, playing at the show and open
next to all these stars andchampions, and I'm just like them.
And it's.
It's amazing.
Wait, you're winning the US Open?
You're winning the Australia?
It's a bit different.
It's a bit different.
But how did you push through?
So how did you get through?
So how old were you then?
(05:23):
Nine, ten?
Yeah, I was around nine years old.
And now you're 17?
Yeah.
So over those years, how haveyou progressed?
How have you got better?
Where have you trained andwhen was there a day you realized,
I'm actually quite good atthis, I can be professional?
Yeah.
So in the beginning, I startedwith a coach named Dwayne Begay.
(05:45):
He's a big coach out here inthe desert, and I've been with him
for the whole eight years,which is crazy.
He's been huge for me, and I'mon that path.
I've been going to the USAnational campus in Orlando or coaches
named Jason Hartnett, and wealso been working with the best player
of all time named ShingoKenneda, who's.
(06:06):
He's won 25 single slams,which is crazy.
And he's, you know, almostlike my assistant coach out there.
So I've been going back andforth between the desert and Orlando,
and being around people likeBen Shelton, too, is amazing because
you have that wholeenvironment, and there are some tough
moments along the path, for sure.
And I think for me, I've juststarted, you know, really digging
(06:28):
in.
Last year, I was going toschool in high school in person,
and playing Junior Masters,the La Petitas, which we also partake
in.
I played last year.
It was my last one.
And I remember I was talkingto my mom, and I lost a few tough
matches to the juniors.
That was in January.
(06:49):
And she was like, you know, ifyou really want to take all the weight,
you got to go online.
You got to dedicate more toit, you know, and that was my dream.
You know, I'm not, I, I, Iknew that.
You know, I feel like God gaveme this disability for a reason.
So I wanted to go all in with it.
You know, why not?
And my parents fully supported me.
They're amazing.
And so I, I took it seriouslythen, and I think that whole year.
(07:09):
I won my first men'stournament in July of last year,
and that was, that was a hugeset for me as I'VE been playing juniors
most of the time and the workstarted to pay off.
And then once I won that USOpen for the first time, being the
same juniors I lost to inJanuary, it was, it was, I think
that was the eye opener whereit's, you know, I really see how
the work, what the work can doand, you know, and the dreams I want
(07:33):
to do in the future and that'splaying the men's Grand Slams and
I want to win it.
So that, that was the eyeopener for me.
And it really shows, you know,how much time you got to dedicate
for sure.
And that was something I did.
I didn't think I had to do before.
You know, we had to talk to my mom.
So you're full time now?
No, school.
Sorry.
Online.
(07:53):
Online.
Online school.
Okay.
Yeah.
And so what's your typicaltraining day like now?
How many hours you're on court?
Yeah, so now I'm going to bein Orlando full time.
So it's pretty crazy days there.
We do two hours in the morningand then an hour workout and then
another two hour.
So it's almost around sixhours a day.
It's like a, you know, we goto like a 9 to 5.
(08:15):
So it's crazy.
And we go every day.
We go half day on Saturday andthen no nothing on Sunday.
So it's, it's pretty stackedschedule and it's something I wasn't
doing before, for sure.
You know, and having all thesethings for us and at the campus,
like the best coaches andShingo and I get to train a lot of
other we tennis players too,which, which is awesome.
(08:36):
And so getting, getting thatconstant play is huge, especially
in the wheelchair sport.
It's, you know, it's becomingso competitive now where you have
to do that if you want to bethe best.
So yeah, that's like myschedule is.
Your training split inbetween, like, I don't know, technique
and sort of basket work andthen match play.
Do you do that throughout the day?
Yeah, I'd say the mornings areusually more technical and with a
(08:58):
lot of baskets and.
And then the afternoon we gomatch play pretty much all the time.
What's fitness look like foryou guys?
Yeah, so we're definitely notalways in the gym every day, so most
of it's upper body, as you know.
But at the campus we like towork with our legs too.
And I'm blessed to be morelike I have a lot of ability in my
(09:18):
legs.
So once we get that, you know,I use my legs to push down on the
foot plate.
So when I serve, I'm pushingthe energy almost into the ground.
Just like, you know, you'restanding up.
So we do, we do squats.
I know that sounds crazy.
Yeah, it does.
We almost hit leg days a lot, but.
And then we'll also go on the,onto the track outside and do pushing
(09:39):
drills because mobility is thebiggest part of the game of wheelchair
tennis.
And then we'll go inside anddo spider, spider drills around cones
and different things like that.
And so we mix it up a lot.
But yeah, mostly it's in thegym or outside.
And you see, you said you, BenShelton to be around there.
What have you learnedAnything, Anything sparring from
(10:00):
Ben?
Yeah, the biggest thing I'velearned, I've watched a few practices
just how intense he is.
You know, he's, he's alwaysgrunting in practice, you know, maybe
louder than the match.
And he's, he's just so intense.
So then once he gets on thatmatch, it's, it's just the same thing.
And I think that's huge forpeople practicing because sometimes,
you know, we relax too muchand especially when you're on the
clay, you got to be grindingand it really shows because, you
(10:23):
know, what you're doing outthere in the Florida heat is it makes
it easy for the match.
So that's the biggest thing Ilearned from him.
And you, sorry, you say nowyou're in Orlando, by the way, you're
from Indian Wales area, thedesert over there.
So are you relocating fulltime to Orlando by yourself or is
your family moving also?
Yeah, so we just bought ahouse, so my whole family's going
(10:45):
as well.
My sister's, she's 13 now, soshe'll go to school there.
So it's a big life, whole lifemove west to east coast.
It's crazy, but I love it there.
My parents do too, so it'sgonna be fun.
Did your sister play tennis now?
She tried to at the tennisgarden, but it's not a thing.
I think she's more of avolleyball player.
(11:06):
And you know, like I said, myparents didn't really play either,
so it's nothing really.
Was running the family.
But maybe I'll be the start.
Maybe.
Yeah, bro, you're on.
You're on the way.
And growing up, who was yourtennis star growing up?
I'd definitely say RogerFederer for sure.
I just, I just love the way hecompeted and I feel like just, just
(11:26):
the word, the words, like theaura, the aura around him, you know,
as I wasn't really playing tennis.
But I, I knew who he was and Isaw him win.
Everybody loved him, so.
And I, I had the, you know,the honor to meet him at the US Open
this last year, which was huge.
And it felt like my world stopped.
You know, I, I looked up tohim so much, and to hear him, you
know, before my final, hesaid, good luck, champ.
(11:48):
And that was like the biggestthing for me.
Maybe that helped me win too,but that was a, you know, full circle
moment as growing up.
As a kid, I never playedtennis, but I looked up to him.
And then, you know, makingends meet and seeing him as a player
is.
Is different.
So it was awesome.
And plus, you got the onehander too.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, that's amazing.
(12:09):
So they just take it forwardto winning.
So you won the US Open last year.
You won Australia this year, French.
Did you get to the final?
Yeah.
Did you win the dubs in French?
And then did you.
I'm not sure if actually youplayed Wimbledon or not.
Did you play Wimbledon?
No.
So they don't have juniorsthere yet.
(12:31):
They're just starting to addall the Grand Slams for juniors,
which is a huge step.
It started back in 2022.
The US Open was the first, sothey're starting to add that now.
And.
But you know, I'm making thattransition, as I said, to the men's.
And this is my last year ofjuniors, but right now I'm currently
looking hopefully to get awild card into the US Open, which
would be first program slam.
(12:51):
And so I'm, I'm lookingforward to that, and if not, I'll
play juniors again.
But it's pretty excitingthings ahead.
Can you play both?
I. I don't know.
It.
It hasn't come up yet.
You know, I don't think thatsituation's happened yet, but.
And I don't know, what was itlike winning the US Open last year?
Like, were you going into thetournament, did you think I could
(13:11):
win this?
Or was it, you know, you startbelieving it throughout the tournament,
throughout the event, and thenwhat changed?
Or did anything change afterwards?
Looking back at it?
Yeah, I had, I had a littlewinning streak going in singles,
and it was, like I said, themen's tournaments was helping my
confidence extremely.
And so once I got into the USOpen, I mean, what I was thinking
(13:34):
about is all the work I wasputting in.
I think that helped my confidence.
As before, I would show upand, you know, maybe hope to win
or hope to be close.
You know, I wasn't trustingwhat I was doing because I wasn't
spending as much time on thecourt as I am now.
So I had.
I had a lot of coaches aroundme, supporting staff.
You know, my coach from my.
From here, Dwayne Begay, cameand he supported me.
(13:57):
I had my urologist show upfrom when I was a child, and that
was.
That was pretty crazy.
And he got to watch me play.
So I feel like all the supportaround me, you really, really helped
me, you know, want to win andwant to win for them and everyone
that's ever supported me.
So this year felt different,for sure.
And.
Or this last year.
And, yeah, I went in there thefirst round.
(14:18):
First round was three sets.
It was pretty close, and I wassuper nervous because I had the feeling,
you know, I don't want to losefirst round.
You know, I've been workingthis whole year for this, you know,
and I also work with a mental.
A mental strength specialist.
You know, he.
He helps me so much, and with those.
With those things that go onmy head like that, you know, everyone
(14:38):
has them.
So he was huge, too, and hegot to watch me play.
So, like I said, you know, allthe work going in and, you know,
believing.
Believing that I could win andbelieving that God had this plan
for me, you know, win or lose,you know, there's still a plan.
And I think, you know, so manypeople came out for that final, and
I think so many younger kidswith disabilities, and I think it
(14:58):
was all part of the plan, youknow, having a US Player there and
playing in the final, and Ithink I inspired a lot of people,
and that's my biggest thing.
I want to do more than the winning.
You know, it's having thoseyounger players come up.
And, you know, I want to belike you.
And so that.
That's the biggest thing forme, and that's what inspired me to
win the US Open, I think.
And, you know, getting thattrophy, that winning feeling was.
(15:19):
Was everything.
Everything that year, youknow, paid off.
And, you know, there's so muchahead, but that's probably the biggest
moment in my life so far.
So that is.
That is deep root in you is a goal.
Your job is to inspire morewheelchair players.
For sure.
That's.
It's a big undertaking, but,you know, you're starting young,
so I'm gonna wish you all thebest in that.
(15:41):
That's gonna be fun chat.
Obviously, you've startedwell, and you're ranked about 65
in the world now.
Yeah, so I just won atournament this four days ago in
Vancouver.
It was Like a pro tournament.
And yeah, so I think I'm backup to like 50 now, on the rise.
So I keep trying to get up there.
But yeah, there's a lot ofgood, a lot of top players that come
(16:04):
out here to the US and for us,you know, we have to travel to Europe
more because, you know, youdon't get like two tournaments in
the same place out here in theUS like you can on maybe challengers
or so.
So there's a lot of travelingthat has to be done in the sport.
Is the level like that?
Is it like a Futureschallenger and, and like a Master's
level, then a Slam?
It's similar to the ADP andWTA Tour.
(16:28):
Yeah, I say it's prettysimilar if you put it in this perspective.
And the news is a few days agothey just confirmed that they're
changing the tour next yearand they're making a premier tour.
So we're going to have eventsat Miami, Indian Wells for a top
group and then we're going tobe having more of a challenger group
to try to get in.
And so I think I'll be takingpart of that middle section trying
(16:50):
to get in there.
So it's huge.
And like you said, I thinkit's going to make it more easy to
understand now they'restarting to name the tournaments
the same, maybe having thename of the points like in a thousand
instead of.
We call it Super Series right now.
So making it, making it moreunderstandable for the average tennis
follower.
And how many people in it?
Let's say, let's say it's on a Miami.
(17:11):
How many people in a draw in atop tier event?
Yeah, so it's probably goingto start at like 16, which is, you
know, I know that this, itsounds pretty small, but again, there's
not millions of wheelchairplayers out there right now.
So.
Yeah, and I, I think it's,it's, it's not hard to jump up in
literature, tennis.
You know, anything could happen.
You know, you have playerslike his name, Taquito Oda, the world
(17:33):
number one, who's, I thinkhe's 20 now or 19 and he was world
number one at 17.
So it's really, you know, ifyou get good at the movement and
you have a lot of ability, youcould, you could really jump up there
pretty quick.
And obviously you got to be areally good tennis player and got
to put the work in.
But you know, I, I thinkstarting to see big jumps now and
I hope, you know, to be the next.
(17:54):
Yeah, you gotta Aim big.
Aim big.
Yeah, that's right.
And you know, for me, I'd sayI go to the.
I go to a few tournaments.
I find traveling, you know,first term it's okay.
And then travel.
Travel becomes quite tough, traveling.
But for you it's even harder.
How.
How do you deal with that?
Are UK traveling or do youfind it hard?
Yeah, it's definitely harder.
You're traveling with twowheelchairs because, you know, I
(18:15):
have my everyday chair andthen a sports wheelchair and you
know, sometimes they get lostand that's like the worst.
The worst thing that could happen.
Has that happened?
It's so bad.
I've had it happen.
But I'm busting up.
Not.
Not before.
Not like when I ride to a tournament.
So I've been.
I've been lucky there.
But when I get home, I've hada loss for like three days and it
doesn't show up.
And so it's.
(18:35):
It's crazy.
And I definitely got betterfor sure.
But you'll see a lot of theplayers around, around the world
in Lucha Tennis, they have bigboxes, like hard, hard shell boxes
for the chair because theyalso get broken on the plane as expect.
And so it's definitely hardtraveling with two wheelchairs.
But, you know, I like.
Regardless of that, you know,I love flying.
(18:56):
I think.
I think it's like one of myfavorite things.
I like it more than car driving.
The cars just make me sick.
But when I'm on the plane, Ijust listen to music.
I fall asleep really easily.
So I love that part of it.
But you know, definitely goingfrom one place to another is hard,
you know, and sometimes I missbeing home, being with my.
Being with my mom and my sister.
(19:17):
My dad travels me a lot, youknow, around the world.
So it's.
That part's tough.
But, you know, the flying andstuff, you know, I could do that
all day.
And does then.
Does anybody ever have two wheelchairs?
Just in case that was to happen?
Imagine you're traveling toWimbledon or to New York.
And does anybody actuallytravel like that?
I. I haven't seen that yet.
(19:38):
I think that's.
That would be kind of extreme.
But I could.
I.
Maybe in the future I couldsee something like that happening.
But a lot person bring anotherpair of wheels.
So a whole.
A whole wheel.
Which.
So, yeah, not just the tire,but so like something goes wrong,
they just take it out of thebag and plop it right on.
So I. I don't.
I don't do that.
I.
Only a few players, maybe oneor Two right now.
(19:59):
And it just, you know, you'rejust adding more to the travel.
So it's rough, but yeah.
And on, during a match, cananything, I know, you know, you can
break a string, break aracket, your shoes probably don't
break.
But for you, from a technicalperspective with your wheelchair,
can anything actually breakthat you can't fix or do you actually
have a tool bag with you?
(20:20):
Yeah.
So most tournaments that theyall have a mechanic.
So if something breaks, if atire pops, you got like a 20 minute
period.
It's almost like a medicaltimeout, but they add it for this.
So yeah, you get 20 minutes.
But I've had it in doubleswhere my partners, one of his tire
pops and it takes I think 15minutes to get that changed.
(20:40):
And we get back on the court,the other tire pops.
And so they try to do as fastas they can.
It takes like six minutes andwe get like a point penalty because
we go over the time.
And so that, that was probablythe craziest thing I've seen so far.
But yeah, we have, we havemechanics and everything and people
that are pretty quick and geton the court, change the tire really
(21:01):
quick.
So yeah, you know, we don'tusually have to do it ourselves.
That, that would be rough.
Yeah, that would be rough.
And tell me, does playing atthe higher level, so let's say you're
top 20 in the world, does itpay the bills?
Is, is there a cut off whereit actually pays the bills?
And we all know tennisexpensive, we all know like DPWA
level.
Unless you're top 100, youknow, you're barely breaking even.
(21:24):
Is there a break even pointfor you guys?
I say around the top 16 levelfor sure because that's the Grand
Slam cut off.
And you know, once you get inthe Grand Slams, then you're making
prize money and it's going upnow for sure.
And it's amazing to see howtheir prize money is increasing.
And obviously it's not like,you know, stand up tennis, but you
(21:46):
know, I think most of it'smore like endorsements and that kind
of things.
Obviously, I think that thathelps more and you know, having,
you know, likable charactersand having good stories is what's
important.
So yeah, I think thatcombination's, you know, the key
to, you know, making a livingon the tour.
And I know tennis, you know,in general is hard to make money
(22:08):
on tour, so there's definitelygot to be more, more in this sport
than just the tennis.
You know, you gotta, you gottaBe doing other things for sure, and
having to, you know, being marketable.
And so I think, you know,that's what I'm trying to, you know,
make sure I do well in the future.
And, you know, if you want toplay the sport, you gotta find ways,
you know, to, to market yourself.
So I think that's, that,that's the biggest thing.
(22:29):
But prize money's going up a ton.
You know, U.S. open is, youknow, putting a lot of money into
it, which is amazing.
So, Yeah, I just saw it there.
Wimbledon was about 70,000sterling, just under for the winner,
which is not really a lot fora professional athlete winning a
Grand Slam.
So I think they have a bit ofwork to do there.
By the time you pay yourtaxes, that's half of that.
(22:51):
So.
Yeah, you're right.
But it's good to see it'sincreasing and that, that's good.
That's good to know.
So you just got to play moretournaments, get out there and win
more.
That's right.
Because I'm sure even from acost perspective for you, flying
to tournaments where you'veall these bigger bags, you know,
you've.
Wait.
I'm not sure if they chargefor the wheelchairs or not, but it's.
(23:14):
It gets pretty expensive.
Right.
Right.
Yeah, it gets really expensive.
And, you know, I'm blessed.
You know, my parents have, youknow, been, you know, fund me and,
and I still, I. Yeah, still.
I'm still 17, live with them.
So.
Yeah, and the USA helps us, too.
They'll give us, give usgrants to be able to do this.
(23:34):
These things too.
So that, that's huge.
And.
But yeah, I know a lot ofplayers around the world, you know,
maybe can't afford is.
Is for tennis.
You know, it's really hardtennis by itself.
But now you have thewheelchair, like you said, and that's.
Some of those are like $15,000.
You know, they're almost likebuying a motorcycle.
So it's, it's crazy.
(23:54):
And.
But yeah, I'd say, I say it'sgetting better and with this premier
tour, like I said, and, youknow, having Miami, any wells, that
just means more prize moneyfor, for players.
And that means you'll see someof us coming up, you know, maybe
players that didn't think theywould be able to make money now are,
you know, you know, coming outand we're hungry, you know, players
that, you know, need it.
Yeah.
(24:14):
And are you, are you Nike sponsored?
Yeah.
No, not, not officially, but,you know, just.
I just wear the clothes and,and everything and I'll use Yonex
so they, they support me too.
Yeah.
What Yonex do you use?
People always ask and haveplayers on.
I never ask them what racketthey use and we get listeners saying
what racket do you use?
What racket to use?
(24:35):
Which Yonex?
I use the EZO98 and what string.
And actually tension do you have?
So I use the Polytour spin inthe mains and then Polytor Pro and
the crosses.
It's like the Casparid style and.
Yeah, and I actually use anezone from was it 2020.
(24:58):
So I don't use the newest oneand Yeah, I don't know if I'm allowed
to say that but.
Yes, but I've been using thatracket for a long time.
Yeah, but what tension?
Same, same as the ordinarytennis is the what tension you string
at?
Yeah, 48 pounds.
Just both.
I, I tried switching it up,going 3 lower in the crosses and
(25:19):
no, I just stick with 48.
And is the ball you use theexact same ball as a normal ball?
Yeah, the exact same ballsactually string rackets, you know,
everything and.
Okay.
I think though you will see onthe top, you know some players are
using really light racketslike Takeda oda is using 100L, which
is something you wouldn't seetoo much and stand up and I think
(25:41):
that helps, you know getting,getting a little more, a little more
whip or getting off the wheelfaster because you know we have to
push with the racket in thehand and then taking it up and swinging.
So if you have a really heavyracket, you know your forearms are
going to be cooked.
You know, you're not going tobe able to move that long.
So I, I'm good with mine at305 right now and I, I don't know
(26:02):
what it is with the string butit's, it's not that heavy.
And but like you said, you'llsee people with 285 grand rackets
and it's kind of crazy but Ithink that's, that's kind of where
the sport is.
Yeah, there's a reason for it.
What's your, what's your hero shot?
What's your, what are youknown for?
Me?
Yeah.
So my, my hero shot is theback end down the line.
(26:25):
You know in winter tennis weall have one handed back ends.
You know, we're like RogerFederers everyone.
And I learned that mainly fromShingo Kenneda.
Like I said, one of the bestplayers of all time and that's his
Favorite shot, too.
So he's really coached me onhow to hit it the best.
And I feel like in the sportnow, Lucha tennis, it's pretty much
(26:45):
the first to find the line.
It's hard.
We can't sidestep, and wecan't get to the other side that
fast.
And especially, I feel likethe returner always has the advantage
in this sport unless you havean amazing serve.
But yeah, it's just so hard toserve and get to the other side of
the court right away, becausesometimes your chair, you know, it
stops after the serve.
(27:07):
And so for me, you know, like,going down the line right, right
on the return, or being the,maybe the second shot in the rally
just to, you know, switch itup and have the move across.
So that, that's my favorite shot.
And I, I.
People call me Mini Shingo forit, so it's cool.
It's like, it's like, it's.
It's your wrong foot and shot,really, isn't it?
I know a different name, but,yeah, that's, that's, that's interesting.
(27:29):
So in your young career, whatdo you feel has been your biggest
challenge so far to get whereyou are today?
I think the biggest challengefor me yet to get where I was was,
yeah, definitely.
I've said before tennis wasthe surgeries, and that is kind of
developed to how I am today.
And I think around, let's see,I was probably around 8 years old
(27:51):
or 7 to 8, and I was justmissing the transition into first
grade, which is huge.
And I feel like, you know, mysocial skills weren't as good.
You know, I. I didn't reallyhave friends then.
And yeah, like I said, I waskind of lonely at home.
And I feel like I, I still hadfaith in faith in God, and that's
huge for me.
(28:12):
And that with having thatfaith helped me get back into it
and having believed thateverything would be okay, you know,
and everything would.
There would be a plan for me.
And from that belief at ayoung age, it helped me getting back
into school, making friendsright away.
And I think that's part of mebeing really friendly and having
a gift from God.
Not letting the surgeriesaffect me, because sometimes you
(28:34):
might have mental trauma from those.
And to be honest, all that'swalked out.
I really can't tell you.
I don't remember anything fromit, which is crazy.
I just remember the taste ofthe medicines, so it's crazy.
I feel like that's developedhow I am today.
You know, having that beliefin God is is crazy, because now I
could lose a tennis match and be.
And be like.
Like I said, Roland Garros, Ilost the final.
(28:56):
And I was.
I was really sad because thatwas my last time to do it in juniors,
and I wanted to go 3 for 3,like, with all the Grand Slams, and
so y' all sitting on thesideline, and I could have been like,
you know, why?
Like, why, why.
Why did this happen to me?
You know, but instead I wasmore, you know, thank you, God, for
allowing me to play.
And I said it in the out, youknow, on court, you know, microphone,
(29:17):
trophy ceremony, you know,taking God first, that's huge for
me.
And so if God could get methrough the surgeries and make me
a tennis player, you know, howGod could take a loss and make something
great out of it.
And I feel like that'ssomething that's helped me massively,
and it's held my belief, and Ihope I'll always stay with that the
(29:38):
rest of my life.
So the good skill you have,that's good attitude and a good skill
because it's a mental skill.
So it will make you go far.
And are you surgery wise, barn.
God forbid, any injuries.
But are you actually finishedall your surgeries, or will there
be more surgeries at some stage?
Yeah, right now, I'm prettymuch finished, you know, unless something
(30:00):
happens.
But I'm.
I'm.
Yeah, I don't have anythinggoing on.
You know, I'm blessed thatlife is good, you know, how do you
have a disability?
And I. I'm.
I love.
You know, obviously there'ssome challenges, but, yeah, yeah,
I've learned to, you know, To.
To realize it's for a reason.
And.
And, you know, we havedisability for a reason.
And so.
So, yeah, I.
(30:21):
That, yeah, there's nothingreally coming up.
So, yeah, I'm.
Finally.
My last question is, whatadvice do you have for other people
in wheelchairs who want topursue a career in tennis?
Yeah, I'd say the advice forthem is, you know, you have to give
it a go.
You know, it might seem.
It might seem crazy at firstwe went to tennis, but, you know,
once you watch the top playersand see them competing, you know,
(30:44):
it really opens up crazy doors.
And you get to be next toNovak Djokovic, you know, in a gym,
warning up for an AustralianOpen final, like I once did, and
it's.
It's amazing.
And, you know, if you don'tgive it a shot, you know, you never
know where you could be.
And like I said, I wanted toBe an NBA player and NFL player,
but, you know, I couldn't.
So finding this was that doorfor me.
(31:06):
And now I want to make surethat I'm giving back to everyone
and hope everybody has a fairchance to find the sport.
This is amazing.
And, you know, tennis is hard,for sure, but, like, you know, I
never played growing up, butI, you know, I found it and, you
know, I loved it.
I love competing.
I love the let's Gos, and thatwas a big for me.
So, yeah, just, you know, goout and try it.
That's my, that's my advice.
(31:26):
That's amazing.
I totally forgot, actually,that, you know, if you're getting
to finals, you're there whenJockovich is there.
Alcross is there the bestplayers around.
I know there's less people there.
There's not that many peoplearound anymore, so you probably better
chance of bumping into them.
Do you ever speak to any of them?
Yeah, I, I, yes, I spoke toYannick Sinner in the, he was playing
(31:48):
Ben Shelton that day.
So I, I, I said good luck toboth of them.
But I, yeah, I was just like,good luck, man.
He's like, thanks, bro.
So I, I, we don't have, like,conversations like that, but, yeah,
probably, yeah, with RogerFederer, you know, we talked about,
you know, the, you know, he'sasked me if I was playing and all
that, and I say I was in the final.
So, yeah, you really get totalk to all these guys, and you're
(32:10):
right at the very end of thetournament, all the best guys are
there and no one else is.
So it's, it's awesome.
And, and I think a lot ofthem, you know, look up to us, too,
and how much work we have toput in.
And Djokovic is a goodambassador for that.
You know, he does a lot ofexhibitions for Luther Tennis, and
he talks about a lot, so he'sawesome, too.
(32:31):
And, yeah, so I think it willkeep growing like that and, you know,
the more juniors we get in thesport, you know, the more future
the game will have and, youknow, with this new tour is awesome
and, you know, I hope to be,you know, inspiring for them and,
you know, the next face of ustennis, and that'll be, that'll be
huge.
Charlie, thank you very muchfor jumping on.
Best luck next month in New York.
(32:52):
I'm excited to see how you geton and hopefully get that wild card
into the main draw.
So let's go.
Thanks.
I appreciate it, Sam.
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