August 13, 2024 • 57 mins
James Baker's transformation from defrocked minister to behavioral health therapist is nothing short of inspiring. This week, we're sitting down with James, along with guitarist Kolby Peoples and lyricist Christine Baker—also known as the Narcoleptic Goddess. We reminisce about the electrifying 1998 St. Louis concert and get an exclusive first listen to their upcoming 2024 releases, including "Fallen" and "Belated." Plus, get ready for their Halloween CD release and marvel at Kolby's guitar wizardry.
The episode takes a deep dive into the critical importance of mental health awareness. We explore the courage it takes to share personal stories and how societal norms often hinder open discussions about mental struggles. Our conversation touches on the pandemic's exacerbation of mental health issues and the alarming rise of substance use, particularly fentanyl. Through heartfelt anecdotes, we stress the necessity of open dialogue and community support, highlighting the life-changing impact such conversations can have.
Peer support is a lifeline in the journey to recovery from mental health struggles and addiction. We delve into the transformative power of sharing personal battles and the invaluable role of community. Discover practical advice for starting conversations about mental health and learn about the cathartic process behind Rorschach Test's music. From the emotional resonance of their album "Unclean" to the inspirations behind their profound lyrics, this episode promises a compelling exploration of music, recovery, and the human spirit.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It is another episode of the Fuzzy.
Mike this is the Fuzzy Mike.
The interview series withoutformat, without boundaries,
without focus.
This is the Fuzzy Mike.
Hello, and thank you forjoining me on this episode of
(00:23):
the Fuzzy Mike.
The feedback on the past twoepisodes with Ricky Sluder
simply amazing, sooverwhelmingly positive.
Not only do I appreciate youlistening and watching the
episodes, but that you werecompelled enough to send me
messages.
Well, I seriously I don't havethe words to express my
gratitude.
I don't have the words toexpress my gratitude.
(00:46):
So this week, well, I've beenobsessing about this
conversation for roughly threeweeks now, and some of the
obsessing has been healthy, likegetting to listen to some of my
favorite music incessantly.
But the other obsessing, well,it's been stressful because I
just wanted this conversation togo perfectly, as I do with all
of my guests, but this oneparticularly because, well, I've
(01:10):
been a fan for over a quarterof a century, 26 years to be
exact.
I first saw James Baker andRorschach test at a St Louis
concert in 1998.
They opened for an S&M metalact called the Jenna Torturers.
Go look them up.
Not safe for work though.
They have a PG-rated show.
(01:30):
They have an R-rated show andan X-rated show.
I've been to the R and the Xbefore the X-rated show is
pretty much whatever you wouldthink goes on at a bondage show,
with piercings on stage, ofprivate parts, all that kind of
stuff.
It's really familyentertainment.
Anyway, james and RorschachTest when they opened in St
(01:50):
Louis, it blew me away.
I left the venue that night, ahuge fan of Rorschach Test.
So fast forward to today, 2024,.
I was running last month and Iwas listening to my iPod.
Hey, don't judge, you'll getold someday too.
Rorschach's song Cripple Touchcame on.
It got me wondering if theywere still around and if so,
(02:15):
what were they up to?
Well, it turns out James.
James was one time a youngminister in the church, but he
became defrocked in the early1990s.
Anyway, james took a longhiatus from music to work
through some personal demons,and that led him to get a degree
in behavioral health and becomea vocal advocate for mental
(02:36):
health awareness and suicideprevention.
I also learned that they'vealready released some new music
in 2024, and they have moremusic coming out later this year
and next year.
Are you kidding me Talkingmental health and music with one
of my favorite artists?
Surely this couldn't happen, orcould it?
I took a shot and I emailedRorschach Test through the
(03:00):
Contact Us link on their webpage.
Through the Contact Us link ontheir webpage.
Honestly, I didn't expect toget a reply.
But not only did I get a reply,it was actually from James
himself.
So we exchanged emails and textmessages.
Yeah, james Baker has my phonenumber.
Joining us in the episode areRorschach Test guitarist, the
(03:24):
immensely talented Colby Peoples.
I can't wait for you to hearwhat this guy can do with an axe
.
You're going to hear it in theepisode.
Are Rorschach Test guitarist,the immensely talented Colby
Peoples.
I can't wait for you to hearwhat this guy can do with an axe
.
You're going to hear it in thisepisode.
And also James's wife.
She's now a lyricist forRorschach Test.
She actually wrote the lyricsto the song Fallen and she's got
the online.
I guess nom de plume as thenarcoleptic goddess.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Here we go, sir, hello.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
What's going on, my brother?
How are you?
Speaker 3 (03:48):
How are you doing?
Speaker 1 (03:49):
I'm doing great.
Hey, Colby, nice to meet you,man, Nice to meet you too.
Hello, goddess.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Hello, I have a human name too.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Christine, I didn't know if you wanted to use that
or if you just wanted to go withthe narcoleptic goddess.
I've been planning on callingyou goddess the whole time, but
we can go with the brand, forsure.
Yeah, stick to the brand.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
I'll gladly accept.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
I'm sure you will.
I'm sure you will.
Hey, thanks for taking time outof your busy schedules to chat
with me.
I was just talking in theopening about how I stumbled
upon Rorschach test in 1998 whenyou were opening for Jenna
torturers in St Louis.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Did the nurses take care of you?
No, they did not, they lookedfor guys like you.
You know, they bring them up onstage and put them on the
stretcher and uh, we'll leave it.
Uh, we'll leave it there, Ofcourse.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah, no, that was an R-rated show.
That was not the X-rated that Ihave been to.
So lots to cover with all threeof you, including the upcoming
Halloween release of the new CD.
I can't wait for that.
I've already heard and watchedthe video for Fallen.
We're going to talk about that.
We're going to talk aboutBelated, the new song that, uh,
(05:03):
I see I've seen on, uh, thegoddesses meta page.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Yes, it's, uh, it's up on our official YouTube
channel and it's on our websiteas well.
So, Awesome.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
And then we're going to talk about the old material
and we're going to talk aboutmental health, because I did not
know this, james Baker, butwhen you took a break in 2002,
you went and got your behavioralhealth therapist degree.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Eventually yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
That's awesome, brother.
That is so cool.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Right, right, yeah, it is, it's very cool.
So I, I, uh, uh, you know, somepeople do it to uh find a
profession and uh.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
then there are some of us who, who actually need to
do it some of us who whoactually need to do it, but
you've parlayed that into aninteresting uh, I don't know if
it's a profession, but you're ahospice chaplain.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Yeah, I actually.
You know when, when you're, uh,going through your resume, um,
and looking at your updatedskills lists and where you've
been to school, and you plugthat all into these AI resume
machines and they recommendexactly who you should work for.
(06:16):
What kept popping up waschaplain, and I was like, well,
chaplain, why are they doingthat?
And it's simply because I havethe creds.
I went to seminary when I waslike well, chaplain, why are
they doing that?
And it's simply because I havethe creds.
You know, I went to seminarywhen I was a very young man and
graduated and was ordained atthat time, and really, you know,
there's most.
(06:37):
Most people say that ordinationkind of lasts for your whole
life or whatever, but I hadthose credentials and I applied
for an outfit here in Phoenixand they immediately accepted me
, and it's been an incredibleexperience for me personally.
(06:58):
I had no idea what I was in for, what I was in for, but I can
tell you that probably the mostmeaningful moments of someone's
life all come to a summary point, and I'm fortunate enough to
get to hold the hands of peoplewhen they're passing from this
(07:21):
existence into whatever's next,and that's a very powerful
moment.
Isn't that heavy for you,though you know you would think
it is, but it's not.
It's actually.
For me, it's something that ishelping me with the whole topic
in understanding how the humanexperience has some very natural
(07:47):
points that it goes through.
We all like all of us hopefullytoday took a crap right.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
So we all do these things that are just natural and
not to minimize someone passingaway, but literally it's just
like taking a crap.
It's something that the bodydoes at some point.
Something that we all do, yeahsomething that we all do, and
you know people say that we areenergy in a flesh cage and that
(08:19):
when that flesh cage dies, orour tent, or our body, whatever
we want to call it when it givesup, finally, the energy is
eternal and it keeps going andit just goes someplace else, and
it's been really cool for me tosee that literally illustrated.
(08:41):
When people are passing away,you can almost observe or see
this energy force leaving theirbodies.
It's really amazing.
So then we do go on for eternity, then you know I'm not going to
get into theology here, but Iwould say that you know everyone
(09:02):
has their own opinion on that,and I do know that the body is
just a mechanism.
Okay, it's not the wholeenchilada.
Your body is just a mechanism.
Something is operating thatmechanism, it's making it
animated and causing it to dothings, and that something is an
energy, I believe.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
To the goddess, then, to expound on that.
How much energy do you havedealing with narcolepsy?
Speaker 4 (09:29):
I have no energy in this plane of existence, but in
the dream world I can do veryamazing things and travel to
places that probably only people, after they pass this world,
get to see and travel actually.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
You and I are very similar.
When I reached out to James toinquire about you guys coming on
, I looked at your Facebook pageand all the memes that you have
and the one that you and I areso spiritually connected,
because the one that I reallylooked at was me how I feel when
I commit to something fivemonths ago and me how I feel
when that day comes that I'vemade that commitment.
(10:08):
It's like, oh my God, what wasI thinking?
Oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
I do it every time, every time.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
And we commit because it's out of love and it's out
of compassion to help somebodyor be with somebody, and then,
all of a sudden, that day comesand you're like, oh my God,
where'd the energy go?
Yeah, I wish we all had theenergy of Colby's fingers.
Holy shit bro.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Oh man, I don't even know where to start.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
I had not known about you until I watched the video
to Fallen and brother I got totell you, man, you are amazing.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
You haven't even heard anything yet.
Wait until the album drops.
Wait until the album drops.
People are going to be.
I mean, I'm already counting onsomeone stealing him away.
Nah, I'm too lazy for that, youknow.
People ask me all the time well, why are you coming back now?
And they're hoping for somekind of legendary answer, like
(11:06):
the election season was suchthat I had to rise up and do
something about it.
But the truth of the matter is,to make music at least for me,
it requires several thingscoming together and all of those
things working correctly.
And I have not had that foryears until this time, this
(11:31):
moment in working with thegoddess as far as a lyricist,
and then understanding, and thenColby, who understands and
interprets what I say to him,what I lay down as a guide track
.
I'll just say here's the idea Ihad for a song, and then I'll
come back in an hour and it'llbe a masterpiece.
I'll be like what?
Yeah, so it's amazing.
(11:54):
Rorschach test has always beenthat the concept has always been
an alchemy of all sorts ofdifferent elements gothic
industrial metal, of all sortsof different elements gothic
industrial metal, you know andfusing those together and making
it work in music.
And that's happening again in abig way.
(12:14):
And it's totally because of thepersonnel that I've surrounded
myself with, or I should saythat I have been blessed to be
surrounded with, as well asbeing sober and present in the
moment for the first time indecades for him.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
So that is awesome, brother.
Congratulations.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Well, thank you.
Yeah, sure, Sure, yeah, that'sa big part of it.
You know, you don't really geta lot done when you're, you said
.
I almost laughed.
You said in 1998, you stumbledacross Rorschach.
I said, well, you're in goodcompany because, believe me,
that was the time.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yes, 1998.
, that's four years old Right.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Oh, my God, yeah, if you want to know how bad it was
for me, I actually got thrownoff the genitorchers bus.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Really.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
I didn't want anything to do with me.
They're like man, this guy.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
So then that kind of begs the question then, how
close to death were you?
Are you amazed that you'restill alive?
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Yeah, I mean, most people are.
In fact, when I kind of when Ikind of reemerged here just
recently with Fallen andannouncing that we were getting
the project back together, I'veprobably received at least 20
comments from people who'veknown me in the past who said oh
, thank God, I thought you weredead.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Well, there also at one point like six years ago on
Wikipedia, there was a Wikipediathat said he had drowned or
died in a river and we had tocontact Wikipedia to have him
take it down.
But it was up for like a yearsaying that he had passed away.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
There's a song in there.
There is a song in that exactly.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
Was it a river that they said you died in?
Yeah, in.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Idaho.
I died in a river in Idahosomewhere.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Have you ever swam in Idaho?
Speaker 3 (14:17):
No, I haven't.
Totally inconceivable, thenyeah, wikipedia, anybody can
edit that.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
They don't Do they, oh, okay, anyways.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
No, yeah, anybody can edit that.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Oh my gosh.
I hope I don't have one,because ChatGPT knows about me.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Oh yeah, Isn't that scary stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
I love ChatGPT.
I don't know what you're alltalking about.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Well, you would, because you're you're
technically in sound, you know Imean, james has even said it in
previous interviews that whatyou know about the buttons and
the knobs far surpasses anythingthat we know.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
I could go so far as to say that I was probably
somewhat raised in this room.
I had been hanging out in thisroom, I mean with the owner,
mike Bollenbach, since I wasabout I don't know 13, 14.
I lived in the neighborhood mywhole life.
He saw me playing guitar and hewas like come check out my nerd
box.
I walked into his nerd box andwas like, oh, apparently that's
(15:18):
what I'm doing with the rest ofmy life.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
And here we are, To get as proficient on an
instrument, especially guitar,as you are, Colby.
After school you just rush home, sit in your room and just
start noodling.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
That's all.
Even in class I didn't payattention, I just I just finger
dance, just spirit fingers, youknow, and I think it was a way
to cope with certain aspects ofmy life.
And I enjoyed playing guitarand it just became an obsession
and I was even thinking today onthe way here oh, they're going
to ask questions.
What are they going to ask?
(15:51):
What should I prepare?
Prepare myself, to say and Ithink a great way to put it is
like a series of bad decisionsremedied by obsession is how
this has all evolved, you know,and it's just kind of cool.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
That's another great quote, to go along with the
other quotes that james has.
I mean, brother, I've been.
I think I've watched everyinterview that you've done in
preparation for this.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
I'm probably over prepared for this conversation
and I'm still highly nervousabout talking with you because I
am such a fan oh, I watch your,your podcast I'm your fan, so
I've been so nervous, like andlike you were so brave and so
amazing to to tell your storyand I think you help so many
(16:33):
people and it just it fills myheart with joy because you are,
you are yeah you are inspiringothers to keep going and
continuing on in their lives,knowing that they there's
someone else that feels the sameway as you do, and I think
that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
That's the whole point of the fuzzy mic and I
know that that is now themajority point in your in your
lives, especially with Rorschachtest is to let people know that
there are other people outthere going through the same
thing, Even high profile people,for lack of a better term.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Right?
Well, it's, it's.
It's really simple.
You know, just like all of ushave physical health, we all
have mental health too, and thatmental health can change.
Just like our physical health,we can get sick with a cold or
flu health.
We can get sick with a cold ora flu.
(17:27):
Our mental health can also getsick with various things that
you know can afflict the humanbrain.
But the point is we all, at onepoint or another, are not in
the best shape mentally, I don'tcare who you are.
So it's time for us, as people,to really just get rid of all
of the stigma that surroundsmental health and things like
(17:49):
addiction and substance usedisorder, and make it so that
it's comfortable to have thatconversation if you have to.
One of the things that kills somany, that puts them in the
grave, is simply because theyare afraid of what other people
are going to think if they comeout and say I have a problem.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Which that, right there, leads me to one of the
greatest quotes I've ever heard,and it's from you, james Baker.
Living in the prison of someoneelse's opinion is worse than
living on death row.
That's exactly what you'retalking about right there.
We're so afraid of what otherpeople are going to say about us
that we don't open up.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Right, exactly, and you know we're kind of tuned
into that frequency from youth.
You know, with the way that oursocial construction works We've
learned that if we do certainthings we get an attaboy or a
pat on the back or approval.
(18:46):
And nobody really from youthand hopefully this is changing,
but for me nobody from my youth,I should say ever even
discussed the concept of beingcomfortable with yourself.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
It's just now becoming a topic, and I think
the biggest problem that set theworld over the edge was the
pandemic.
And it highlights the mentalhealth crisis so bad.
We are in dire need.
Everybody of help.
Everybody's suffering mentallyfrom what we've been through.
(19:20):
It's a collective traumaticevent the lockdowns, all that.
The drug use increased majorly.
Now we deal with fentanyl Backin my day.
I'm a recovering addict.
I have 21 clean off heroinsince I put a needle in my arm
and back then like I knew Imight die, you know, but
whatever, that's how I felt atthe time.
(19:40):
But nowadays you take the chanceof taking anything and you're
gone you do you do speed and youthink and you're going to die
from maybe fentanyl, or there'sthe other one in it now and it's
terrifying.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
They think they're getting a percocet and it's, uh,
actually a fentanyl.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
Well, that's it's in everything xanax anything,
everything, and it's, it's, it'sterrifying, and mental health
needs to be talked about more,and I see so much of it on a
large scale, having a page withover 600,000 followers, and I
wish I could help them all, butI can't.
But I can be there in the dirtwith them and let them know that
(20:18):
I've felt this way as well andI think that helps a lot of
people.
But I think we're suffering.
I think we're all suffering andwe all need help, and I think
the medical system needs torecognize that and treat it
better, because they're nottreating it as the whole part.
They're just giving a pill whenyou need to treat the mind,
body and soul, or otherwiseyou're just going to go back to
(20:40):
the beginning.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Yeah, it's also time for us to get away from the
concept of that the doctor fixeseverything, because he doesn't.
He probably knows, I meanseriously, doctors for the most
part are just as stumped as weare when it comes to this kind
of stuff.
They're still trying to figureout what causes certain mental
(21:01):
health issues and substanceabuse, and there's all sorts of
different theories and ideas.
But the thing is is we need tofocus on community issues and
you know all of us helping eachother out.
That's where it's really at.
Anyone will tell you who's evermade a successful run at
(21:24):
recovery or facing their mentalhealth crisis.
It isn't the doctor that savedthem, or the pills or the
program.
It's the peer.
It's the peer.
It's that person who's standingwith them, who knows what
they've been through and whosays those words that we all
want to hear hey, it's OK,you're not alone.
(21:46):
I've been through that too, andit's all right.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
And there's so much to unravel there.
And I want to start with wherewe kind of picked up that part
of the conversation with otherpeople's opinion.
Picked up that part of theconversation with other people's
opinion.
Goddess, you get attacked somuch because of your memes
online.
Number one it's disgusting whatpeople will say to you.
And number two how do you notinternalize that and have it
(22:10):
affect you?
Speaker 4 (22:12):
It has been the greatest journey of my life,
like the ultimate shadow work,to watch people attack me and be
mean to me, like so.
A year ago I posted, I revealedmy face for the first time and
there were, like, I think, 222comments and there were seven
not so nice comments.
And guess which comments, whichcomments?
(22:35):
I will remember forever thoseseven and um and it.
You know.
I did a lot of shadow workabout that and was like, well,
why do I even care about theseopinions and why are they
attacking me?
It's a reflection, it's reallya reflection of them and how
they're feeling and people getreally jealous that I have so
many followers and how dare I.
(22:56):
And she's not even that pretty.
Oh my goodness, she doesn'tdeserve that.
So it's jealousy, it's envy,and there's just mean people on
the internet that want to dragyou down and destroy you.
They enjoy it.
I had someone.
It crosses over from theinternet to real life for me.
I've had stalkers.
(23:16):
I've had people accuse me ofhorrible things and try and tell
my husband I'm having an affairwith someone else and it's just
all made up stuff to try anddestroy me and cancel me.
I've learned a lot of self-care, and loving myself is what I've
learned from my page.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
So how do we do that?
How do we do that?
Because I also in, like youjust said, 220 comments.
Seven are negative.
I dwell on those seven negative.
You know I was talking withOzzy's former bass player, phil
Sousan, and he was actuallyplaying on stage one night and
some guy yelled out you suck,everybody else is there to have
a great time.
(23:55):
The lead singer stops the showto confront this one person,
neglecting the 5,000 other thatare in there.
You know why do we dwell on thenegative?
Speaker 4 (24:04):
There's a thing in humans, like the train wreck
effect, where we will spend moretime looking at the train wreck
than we will at the beautifulflower It'll just pass by, and
it's a natural phenomenon, andwe all do it.
Flower It'll just pass by, andit's a natural phenomenon and we
all do it.
So online we see the negativebias, the horrible comments,
because we love to look at it.
Even though we're notinteracting, we're looking at it
(24:26):
and the algorithm sees that, soit keeps feeding us more
negativity because we keeplooking at it.
So it's because of us.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Actually, Well, and that's one of the things that we
, one of the themes that youtalk about in Belated, where you
don't blame religion, you don'tblame fake book.
I want to go back to somethingthat, james, you were talking
about about how we need peers,we need companionship.
So how do we break the ice withpeople to talk about mental
(24:59):
health?
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Well, not to sound, you know, cliche, but really
9-8-8 is a great way to startand wherever you're at in the US
, if you dial 9-8-8, they'regoing to connect you with an
operator that you can startsharing with the operator what
your issues are.
And if you're not so muchinterested in something like
(25:24):
residential treatment or seeinga doctor or things like that,
you can specifically just sayhey, where are good peer
connections for me?
I suffer with alcoholism and Iwant to be in a good peer-based
group.
Where do I find that?
And they'll know they have allthe resources summarized and
(25:47):
ready to go on their desk toshare that with you.
So 988 from any cell phone, anyphone in America, will get you
tapped in to that network.
And if you're outside of the US,wwwfindahelplinecom, no matter
where you're at in the world,that's going to give you the
(26:11):
resources to get out there andtalk to someone.
And you know it's just actuallygoing through with the phone
call that I'm interested in withthe people that listen to
Rorschach test.
I want them to realize that,even though it seems like really
(26:31):
hard to do, it's something thatyou can do, it's something that
a lot of us have done.
And once you start talkingabout where you're at in the
struggle, you're going to findthat just this huge burden gets
lifted from you immediately.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
What is it about?
Talking about things thatfreeze us?
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Yeah, it's because when we internalize something
and we're just letting it playin the echo chamber of our huge
psyche, we get no feedback fromanyone.
But what's in there, in thatoil drum of of of you know
vastness there?
And it's just when you, when webounce it off of somebody else
(27:14):
and say, hey, Colby, have youever, you know, have you ever
had trouble with, uh, this orthat?
Speaker 1 (27:20):
or you know and kobe, says well, yeah, of course I
have.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Lots of people have that problem.
My uncle, he had that problem.
My, my friend, tony, he hadthat.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
Whatever you know, the point is like a sigh of
relief to hear that someone elsehas gone through that, because
you feel so alone in the moment,so alone, and just to know that
someone else has been there cansave someone's life.
It saved my life before.
I used to go to counseling, andit wasn't the counselors that
(27:53):
saved me, it was a peer supportspecialist.
Wow, it was a peer supportspecialist.
Wow, and I myself went to schooland became a substance abuse
counselor, but I found that Icouldn't help anyone because too
many people had mental healthproblems and I'm not allowed to
treat that.
So I wanted to go back toschool to be a psychologist,
whatever.
Never got to that, but I wantedto be able to share some of my
(28:17):
story with them, and you're notallowed to do that as a
counselor, a substance abusecounselor.
So I was like, yeah, this isn't.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Not the role for you.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
Yeah, Me because it's hard.
It's a hard job.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Oh, I can't imagine how hard it is.
You know I.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
Most people are court ordered.
They don't want to get clean.
They're very angry and thenangry at me because I had to
give them a UA and they might goback to jail.
So it got really scary.
You know what?
Speaker 1 (28:43):
led you both to getting clean.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Oh well, you know, for me it was a pretty easy
decision, my, you know.
And then I got a phone callfrom somebody that I cared about
(29:06):
very much and she said James, Ijust have one question for you,
does anybody really know you?
And that just completely echoedall through my being.
I was just like you know, Idon't think anybody really does,
and I don't, I don't, I'm notso sure I, I know who I am
(29:27):
myself.
And then that also that thatperson said you know, your
family loves you, you, we'regoing to be for here for you as
long as you, um, you know, dosomething and go to treatment or
do something to address this.
But because if you don't, thenyou know, we're kind of going to
(29:49):
have to just let you go and uh,so yeah, it's, it's pretty wild
.
I actually had one of my drugdealers drive me to Sweden.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
That's impressive on his part.
It's awesome.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
Biden told me it was his.
You know, really good friend.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Yeah, so, yeah, that was a trip.
But uh, yeah, so, uh, yeah,that was a trip, um, and I think
, you know, I think I, I told,uh, I told this this individual,
look, just drop me off here,come back in a week, meet me
right here at this spot, becauseI, you know, I was already
looking for a back door to getout of treatment and, uh, uh,
fortunately, um, I had just theright counselor in there.
(30:39):
And, yeah, if anyone's lookingfor treatment for substance use
disorder, I want to recommendSundown M Ranch in Yakima,
washington, a really magic place, incredible place.
So I did the full 28 and gotout and I haven't looked back
(31:02):
since.
So, you know, I think, for eachof us and anyone will tell you
this there's no, you know, I'veheard people say, well, johnny
has to reach his bottom beforehe can get help.
I mean, that may not be true.
Okay, all of us are differentwhen it comes to that kind of
(31:24):
stuff.
We all react differently, weall use differently, we all.
You know, there's nogeneralization that really works
with an addict.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
But we have to be ready and want it for ourselves,
Otherwise it's not going tohappen.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
James, I heard you say in a previous conversation
with somebody that you thoughtyou hit bottom and then all of a
sudden the ice cracks open andyou fall a little further.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
How do you know what bottom?
Speaker 1 (31:46):
is.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Yeah, exactly, you don't, it's a disease.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
It will always be here.
I may have not shot up heroinin 21 years, but maybe next week
I might, and that's terrifyingbecause that's just addiction.
I'm not going to, I have noplans to, but it could happen
and that's terrifying.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
That's what that right there is.
What scares me about theopening lines of belated and my
life Woke up Sunday morning andwithout a warning, I made the
choice to get right out of here,brother, man, that's me, that
you know.
I am so impulsive and that'swhat scares me, man, that song
(32:26):
really resonates with me becauseof that reason.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Right right.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
It's a really deep song that's written about
someone that was very close tome, my son's father.
We lost him and never got tosay goodbye to him.
We got a call from thecoroner's office instead, but
(32:50):
every year on his birthday myson gets to blow out the cakes
on the candle and he'll always,forever.
He'll never hit 40 because henever got to make it but, um,
that song was inspired by himand he didn't commit suicide.
It was more of an accidentaldrug overdose.
But someone doesn't justaccidentally take six different
(33:12):
types of drugs.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
I know that so again, again, you and I have something
in common, because my fathertook his own life.
Oh yeah, then I never got tosay goodbye.
And james, you talk about notknowing yourself.
I look at the pictures of mydad and me together and I'm like
I don't know that guy.
I, I just I don't know that guy.
He was very, very.
He wasn't.
Uh, he he was.
I will say he was secretive,but not secretive to the
(33:37):
detriment of people.
He was just secretive becausehe didn't know how to open up.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Right, and plus, all of us get caught in that trap of
what we talked about earlier.
We're so obsessed withpresenting some kind of identity
to the world, the outside world, that we are terrified to slip
up in that role and be human andlet people see that, hey, we're
(34:02):
not all together.
There are things about us thatare not so pleasant, and that's
been a real, a learning pointfor me that I can thank the
goddess for.
I mean, she turned me on to alot of things that I hadn't
really been exposed to before,things like Eckhart Tolle and,
(34:27):
you know, the real teachings ofCarl Jung in terms of embracing
the shadow self, realizing thatyou know you are who you are
good and bad.
There's that bad part of youtoo, and rather than trying to
keep that secret from everybody,man, just let it out.
Let it out.
Let people know I'm a freak,I'm weird in certain ways.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
Add to that not only embracing the shadow of yourself
in that shadow are amazinggifts of gold that we've buried
there.
It's not just all bad stuff.
There's amazing gifts that wehave hidden inside of ourselves.
So if you take the time to dothe work, your life will change
in amazing ways.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
It's the same message in all the lyrics in Fallen.
You're speaking the song rightnow.
That's probably why you wroteit.
Hey Colby, what, how muchconfidence do you get with the
(35:32):
guitar in your hand?
Speaker 2 (35:37):
None, you pick up a guitar and you, honestly, the
more you know, the less, theless you know, I guess, in the
grand scheme of things, and I'mvery humbled when it comes to
the instrument, I don't I don'tfeel very cocky at it at all,
but I do pick it up and it feelsagain like I said earlier, it's
just something I used, it's myown version of obsession, it's
(35:57):
my own version of healing orcoping.
And when you put a guitar in myhand here we go, man, like, oh,
can I do this?
Oh, I guess I can.
Okay, so it's a weird questionto answer, but I'm just along
for the ride when I startplaying.
You know what I mean.
It's not something that I justpick up and oh, I start
shredding.
Look at me.
I mean it's not something thatI just pick up and oh, I start
shredding, look at me, I feelgreat.
(36:18):
You know, it's not like that atall.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
So how much, how much self-doubt or how much
questioning will go into 2025when you're touring with
Rorschach Test?
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Very, very little.
I've actually been thrown underthe bus for years playing
guitar, going and doing showswhere the entire band is
completely underprepared or, um,I mean, I've had moments in
past where there were littleshows that are like day of hey
man, the set list, um, the setlist fell apart.
(36:48):
Can you learn five, four orfive songs right now?
And it's like the confidencegoes out the window with that
stuff.
You're like sure, I guess.
And then you know James isactually really punctuated, he's
really well prepared and he'slike oh, I'm going to book a
show.
I couldn't tell you how manytimes this year alone, people
are like can you play a showwith me?
It's in two weeks.
(37:10):
You got 12 songs, james ispreparing.
I mean, we've been talkingabout this for eight months and
I've been at home woodsheddingthe songs, preparing equipment.
I mean we've got, we'replanning, we're preparing.
So I feel confident about thetour, about the shows to come,
the recording, because of the, Iguess, the preparedness of the
(37:32):
of the staff.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Yeah, I mean just even go, even going to the show
in 1998.
James, I could tell that youwere a no bullshit guy back then
and but, but but that thatpersona on stage and knowing you
now, it seems like you havekind of mellowed a little bit.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
You know, and but I was, I was mellow off the stage
then too.
I mean, that's one of thethings that freaked out a lot of
people back in those days isthey were like what happens to
you when you get on stage and Idon't know what happens?
Speaker 1 (38:05):
it's, it's uh the music goes through you.
It's just like what colby'stalking about.
He picks up the guitar and theinstrument.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
The music speaks to him right, right and uh, there's
a great uh, uh, right, right,and there's a great sense of
relief and therapeutic value tograbbing an SM-70 and screaming
your guts out.
I mean, you're done.
When you're done with that sortof experience, you're like, oh,
I feel so purged and cleansedand great, you know.
(38:35):
And what's even more edifyingis, you know, seeing the fans
out there who are definitelyconnecting and relating and
sometimes singing along with youor screaming along with you.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Well, you talked earlier in a previous
conversation about peoplerelating to Rorschach test
lyrics and people telling you ohmy gosh, now I don't feel alone
.
Let me also tell you a way thatRorschach tests helps people
not take their own life, becausewe get so wrapped up in the
song that we listen to it overand over and over and by the
(39:13):
time we've listened to it forthe 15th consecutive time, we're
like what was I obsessing about?
What was I thinking abouttaking my own life for?
Speaker 3 (39:21):
I'll share a stupid dog trick that somebody taught
me when I was early in recoveryand I still use it to this day
and I probably will for my wholelife.
But when that urge comes, whatwe were talking about, the first
lines of belated, thatoverwhelming, just out of the
(39:42):
blue, random urge comes and itcould be for suicidal ideation,
it could be for you know otherforms of self-harm.
It could be drugs, alcohol, sex, gambling, whatever.
(40:02):
When the urge comes on, justtake that moment and say you
know what?
I really, really want to go doa plate of cocaine and I'm going
to do it tomorrow.
Tomorrow's the day I'm going toreally do it up tomorrow and
I'm going to get my favoriteplate and I'm going to get my
(40:24):
whatever.
You know you get ready inmentally.
You're like tomorrow's going tobe that day, man, 8am tomorrow,
I start.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Dude, it's brilliant because we're all masters of
procrastination.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
And the slogan is just for today, so tomorrow.
Just for today.
You're going to stay clean, sothere's no code, right, okay?
Speaker 3 (40:43):
absolutely yeah, you just repeat this process the
next day, right?
But uh, you know, uh, it workswith suicidal ideation as well
if you're feeling that you'rejust like you know what.
Tomorrow's the's the day, andthen, when tomorrow comes, just
do the same thing, the sameexact thing, and pretty soon
(41:04):
you've got some distance behindyou and it's no longer the urge
that's trying to drive the bus,you know.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Yeah, and you just got to remember that it's not a
permanent feeling, it's just apermanent solution to a
temporary feeling.
You know, and, and and I, Iremind myself that when I'm
going through dark periods.
But, um, seriously, man, as Ijust said, your music has helped
me a lot.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
It's helped me a lot.
I love hearing that and, uh, II always get blown away when I
get emails or messages frompeople telling me that, um you
know which is great, because itdefinitely has gone both ways Uh
, the, the unclean album that Iwrote was, uh, you know, that
(41:48):
was me spilling my guts on paperand then in front of the
microphone, and it seemed toreally resonate with a lot of
people as well.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
Well, it had to be cathartic for you, number one it
was yeah.
Yeah, and number two.
That's one of my all-time fivefavorite CDs, so if I were ever
stranded on an island, thatwould be one that I'd take.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
Well, I'll share something with you here.
You can break as breaking newson your show here.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
This is Channels Television's breaking news.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
We are going to.
After we're done with Fallen,we are going to reimagine the
album Unclean.
We're going to re-record allthe tracks and we're going to
reimagine it with Colby at thewheel, and we're going to bring
out.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Oh no, no one messes with.
Speaker 4 (42:37):
Colby's guitar.
Oh my goodness, Magic fingers.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
How do you describe Rorschach test music?
Speaker 3 (42:44):
Sonically speaking in what you hear.
The point of Rorschach test isit's absolutely up to you what
you see and hear, and that wasthe point of the original, you
know, inkblot, that wasdeveloped by Mr Rorschach
himself way back when.
It's a really simple answer tothe question and that's really
(43:05):
metaphorical for life itself.
We complicate things as people.
Speaker 4 (43:15):
We try to make it so much more complex than it ever
is.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
You know, the bottom line is just by integrating all
the pieces of you and allowingthose things to be and realizing
that you know the only personwhose approval matters at the
end of the day is yours when itcomes to you.
(43:37):
And then you know finding thatplace in your life where you do
approve of yourself, whereyou're OK, and you say you know
what, yeah, I'm weird, you knowI'm.
I've got these good things too.
I'm talented.
Sometimes I do this, sometimesI do it's OK, it's who I am.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
I'm this person and it's the first Rorschach test, a
song that was not written byJames Baker, Number one.
How long did it take you towrite it?
Speaker 4 (44:18):
Maybe 10 minutes.
It's about it, it came out itcame out of a dream and it's not
what it I mean it is.
There's many layers of meaningto it, but to me it came out of
a dream and I was trying to umfrom a question.
In the dream from Apostle Pauland Jesus Christ himself, from
(44:41):
Apostle Paul and Jesus Christhimself, like my Netflix
mini-series of my Apostle Pauldreams, I was asked kind of to
find, well, is there reallywhere is the devil mentioned in
the Bible?
How many?
So I went through the wholeBible and I found every
reference to the devil or Satanor whatever.
So I didn't even really writeit.
(45:02):
The Holy Bible wrote it.
It came from God.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
Couldn't you have just asked the seminary graduate
, instead of going through thewhole book when was it finished?
Because I always like to askthis question of writers,
because it could never befinished.
You know they'll go back andrewrite, and rewrite, and
rewrite.
So when did you know it wasdone?
Speaker 4 (45:26):
well, I don't think it wasn't really written as
lyrics, it was just written downbecause I was gonna, like, give
it back to apostol paul in mydream.
Um, I gave them to him and hewas like these will make amazing
lyrics, but oh yeah, I couldstill edit it.
But actually I don't know.
Those are pretty amazing,amazing lyrics, but oh yeah, I
could still edit it, butactually I don't know, those are
pretty amazing fucking lyricsto me.
(45:47):
Even I still hear them and I'mlike wow, you know?
Speaker 1 (45:50):
oh, they're great.
Oh, they're really great,they're really great.
The video spectacular too, asis the uh, as is the.
The video and the lyrics forbelated.
Uh, james, you uh are on recordas saying that if the goddess
writes something and it's not upto RT Snuff, you'll let her
know.
How's that conversation?
How's that conversation go withyour wife?
Speaker 3 (46:09):
I mean we all, we all write.
You should hear some of thejunk on my computer.
I mean there's ridiculous songsthat I have invested hours into
and then I realized suddenlythat this is just stupid.
But no, I mean I really haven'tfound anything yet.
(46:30):
I mean she's been pretty prettyhow should I put it?
Stingy with, with her lyricsand stuff.
Speaker 4 (46:36):
She's very stingy, I hold them to their dreams.
Speaker 3 (46:39):
There's another, there is another, there is
another one that's finished onthe album.
We've already finished it.
It's called Embracing theShadow and it's a great song and
I think we're going to be doinga video on it.
I'm not sure, but I'm prettysure there's going to be a video
on that one too.
But yeah, so it's.
I really haven't had anoccasion where I've said to her
(47:04):
I don't want this.
Speaker 4 (47:05):
He's actually begging me for more lyrics when I'm
holding them back.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
So the kind of difference to me with the new
material and the former materialis in.
Lament would be the one thatwould kind of throw water on
this whole thing.
But it's more melodic to me.
The new stuff is more melodicto me.
It's a hookier and it's lessangry.
Am I?
(47:32):
Am I speaking out of my ass?
Speaker 3 (47:35):
No, not at all.
Yeah, I think, I think, yeah,yeah, I think there's there's
not a lot of anger.
Speaker 1 (47:41):
There's still aggression, there's and it.
I think there's not a lot ofanger, there's still aggression
and it's still heavy.
Speaker 4 (47:47):
We get to hear his beautiful voice this time.
The singing is screaming andgrowling.
It is not auto-tuner at all.
The actual singing, though,makes it feel less angrier and
more the way it is.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
There's a lot of texture there.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
There's a lot of texture there, you know we're
yeah, we're excited to unveilthe whole thing.
I think the way it's going tohave to work is that we're going
to have it available on ourwebsite, rorschachtestcom, on
Halloween, starting at like 10o'clock, but the release date is
(48:31):
not actually until November 1st.
That's because of all thedistribution companies are like
we only release on.
Speaker 4 (48:37):
Friday.
It has to be a Friday.
Speaker 3 (48:38):
It has to be a Friday .
So I'm like why does it have tobe?
Why can't we choose another?
No, we're going to do thatThursday.
Speaker 4 (48:44):
sorry You're making me angry.
I'm going to write a song.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Can we go back to a few songs from the early era?
Yeah, okay, is Elvis really toblame for all of societal ills?
Speaker 3 (49:05):
No, no, actually that song Was inspired by my dad.
When my dad was a soldier Inthe Korean conflict, he was on a
boat Going over to Europe, Iguess is where they stationed it
.
He didn't go to Korea, he wentto Germany or something and he
(49:29):
was listening to some music thatsomeone was playing.
My dad grew up listening onlyto Buck Owens, merle Haggard,
hank Williams, straight country.
And when he was in the servicehe heard Elvis for the first
time country.
And when he was in the servicehe heard Elvis for the first
time and you know he thought.
He thought, wow, this guy isgoing to really change
(49:52):
everything in the world for bad.
He's really going to.
You know, this is the devil,basically.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
And I thought I just, you know, when my dad told me
that story I was just kind of Iknew there was a metaphorical
meaning to it, but for just thethe you know, looking at it you
would think oh my God, elvisstarted all this nastiness.
Speaker 3 (50:10):
Well, there's a lot of blame shifting that goes on
in the human experience.
You blame rock and roll for allthe problems of society and you
know, when we get down to itand we don't have anybody else
to blame, we can always blamethe devil.
You know, the devil made me doit.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
That leads me to my next question Satan, you, me, us
.
We all have a little Satan inus.
How?
Speaker 3 (50:44):
No, we don't have Satan in us.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
We have evil.
Speaker 3 (50:48):
What that song is about is taking responsibility
for your own actions.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
So you know, when things go wrong in our life,
it's you, it's me, it's us.
We are the devil we are seekingto blame.
We are the ones that do thisstuff.
So, um, yeah, so that song hasbeen, uh, largely misinterpreted
by a lot of people.
But again, there's no wronginterpretation of a Rorschach
(51:14):
test song, yeah.
So, um, you know, if it meanssomething to you, that's
religious, that's great.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
It's like you read my notes here, james, because I
want to talk about Cripple Touch.
Meet me in my car, behind thebar, we'll build a prayer grass,
a ladder of hope.
What is hope?
Speaker 3 (51:39):
That was cocaine.
That story is talking aboutcocaine A line of hope right
yeah, so, um, yeah, and thatthat song again was a.
It's a just was a true storyabout, uh uh, my one of my
experiences when I was young.
I met a female at a bar and Ihad never really done cocaine
(52:01):
really and that kind of changedthat night.
Speaker 1 (52:05):
That's.
That's the song that promptedme to reach out to you, man.
I was running and that came onand I'm like I wonder what
Rorschach test is doing now.
And so I looked you up and youtalked about politics a little
while ago.
Are you amazed that blow upAmerica is still as relevant
today as it was back when youwrote it?
Speaker 4 (52:28):
No, no, I mean, I mean I, I don't you know these.
Speaker 3 (52:30):
Uh, that's the song they got you on the fbi.
I got a visit from the fbi onefine morning in seattle after
releasing that song.
Um, and you know they, theynotified me that I was
officially on their watch listbecause of the lyrics you know
saying and again, it's similarto Satan.
You know I am.
I'm not asking people toworship the devil.
(52:52):
I've never, ever, suggestedthat to anybody.
That's not what that song'sabout.
I would never suggested toanyone that they should do
anything terrorist oriented,that they should never.
What that song was about it waswritten from the perspective of
the Oklahoma City bomber.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
Today somebody tried to blow up America.
Speaker 3 (53:22):
They got a care of school instead, what was he
feeling, what was he thinking atthe time, and so that's simply
what it was about and peoplekind of read it in another way.
But yeah, I mean we couldchange the lyrics a little bit.
But there's still a lot of veryangry and disenfranchised
(53:44):
people in this country and Irecommend, rather than seeking
an outlet of fertilizer andfederal buildings, get yourself
into some heavy music andtherapy and you're going to be
okay.
We'll see you at the show.
Speaker 1 (54:02):
Yeah, I never interpreted those lyrics as you
telling somebody to be okay,We'll see you at the show.
You know, yeah, I never.
I never interpreted thoselyrics as you telling somebody
to go out and do that.
I always got the McVeighconnection and I always.
There's a.
There's an OJ stanza in there,if I'm not mistaken.
You can kill your wife or loverBecause the rock star lawyers
(54:27):
always beat the state God he setthe world on fire tonight.
Yeah, yeah, it's just thesocietal ills, man, that's what
it is, you know, and those arethe things that need to get
blown up.
We need to vote for Pedro.
We need to vote for Pedro.
We need to come together.
By the way, that's because, ifyou're not watching this on
(54:48):
YouTube, the narcoleptic goddessis wearing a vote for Pedro
shirt, and I went as NapoleonDynamite one year to a costume
contest, so you and I rightthere again.
So well, guys, I can't thankyou enough for joining me.
I can't thank you enough, james,for all of the years of
outstanding music and I can'teven tell you how happy I am
(55:09):
that in 2024 and 2025, rorschachTest is back.
Man Sounded better than ever.
Speaker 3 (55:14):
Hey, you know, you've got my, you got my number and
you, you know.
Just feel free to stay in touchanytime you want or feel like
it, ok.
Speaker 1 (55:24):
Well, yeah, because in the other podcast that I host
with my former radio partner of25 years, I teased that I was
going to be talking to you and Iwas like you know, if you would
have told me in 1998, when Isaw this guy performing, that I
would have his phone number andwe'd be texting back and forth
like we're long lost brothers,I'd have called you a fucking
liar, but I do.
I texting back and forth likewe're long lost brothers, I'd
have called you a fucking liar,but, dude, I I do.
I feel a great connection toall three of you guys, so thank
(55:45):
you so much thank you for havingus man.
I got a kiss flown to me fromthe goddess.
I think she's my new favoritemember of rorschach test.
Sorry, james.
My main objective with thefuzzy mic is to let anyone who's
battling with mental healthdemons know that you're not
alone, and I thank James, colbyand Christine for their candor
(56:10):
in helping spread the message.
If you or someone you know isstruggling with drug addiction
or experiencing suicidalthoughts, there are plenty of
places to go.
Please reach out for help.
You can contact the NationalSuicide and Crisis Hotline at
988 or the Suicide PreventionHotline 1-800-273-TALK 8255.
(56:35):
Or you can call the SubstanceAbuse and Mental Health Services
Administration NationalHelpline at 1-800-662-HELP.
Support is available 24-7.
And if you're listening to thisoverseas, outside of the US, go
to findahelplinecom.
My thanks to James Baker, thenarcoleptic goddess, and Colby
(56:58):
for joining me For all thingsregarding the band, including
their new music and possibletouring in 2025, go to
RorschachTestcom For laughterand spontaneous conversation.
Check out the Tuttle Klinepodcast.
New episodes every Wednesday.
The Fuzzy Mic is hosted andproduced by Kevin Kline,
production elements by ZachSheesh.
(57:18):
At the Radio Farm, social mediadirector is Trish Kline.
I can't believe it.
We are close to episode number100.
And you know what that doesn'thappen without you.
So thank you for joining me andfor supporting the Fuzzy Mike.
I'll see you next week, fuzzyMike.
Thanks for listening to theFuzzy Mike.
(57:38):
Check back often and stay.
Fuzzy, wait a second.
Did we read that right?
It is another episode of the Fuzzy.
Mike this is the Fuzzy Mike.
The interview series withoutformat, without boundaries,
without focus.
This is the Fuzzy Mike.
Hello, and thank you forjoining me on this episode of
(00:23):
the Fuzzy Mike.
The feedback on the past twoepisodes with Ricky Sluder
simply amazing, sooverwhelmingly positive.
Not only do I appreciate youlistening and watching the
episodes, but that you werecompelled enough to send me
messages.
Well, I seriously I don't havethe words to express my
gratitude.
I don't have the words toexpress my gratitude.
(00:46):
So this week, well, I've beenobsessing about this
conversation for roughly threeweeks now, and some of the
obsessing has been healthy, likegetting to listen to some of my
favorite music incessantly.
But the other obsessing, well,it's been stressful because I
just wanted this conversation togo perfectly, as I do with all
of my guests, but this oneparticularly because, well, I've
(01:10):
been a fan for over a quarterof a century, 26 years to be
exact.
I first saw James Baker andRorschach test at a St Louis
concert in 1998.
They opened for an S&M metalact called the Jenna Torturers.
Go look them up.
Not safe for work though.
They have a PG-rated show.
(01:30):
They have an R-rated show andan X-rated show.
I've been to the R and the Xbefore the X-rated show is
pretty much whatever you wouldthink goes on at a bondage show,
with piercings on stage, ofprivate parts, all that kind of
stuff.
It's really familyentertainment.
Anyway, james and RorschachTest when they opened in St
(01:50):
Louis, it blew me away.
I left the venue that night, ahuge fan of Rorschach Test.
So fast forward to today, 2024,.
I was running last month and Iwas listening to my iPod.
Hey, don't judge, you'll getold someday too.
Rorschach's song Cripple Touchcame on.
It got me wondering if theywere still around and if so,
(02:15):
what were they up to?
Well, it turns out James.
James was one time a youngminister in the church, but he
became defrocked in the early1990s.
Anyway, james took a longhiatus from music to work
through some personal demons,and that led him to get a degree
in behavioral health and becomea vocal advocate for mental
(02:36):
health awareness and suicideprevention.
I also learned that they'vealready released some new music
in 2024, and they have moremusic coming out later this year
and next year.
Are you kidding me Talkingmental health and music with one
of my favorite artists?
Surely this couldn't happen, orcould it?
I took a shot and I emailedRorschach Test through the
(03:00):
Contact Us link on their webpage.
Through the Contact Us link ontheir webpage.
Honestly, I didn't expect toget a reply.
But not only did I get a reply,it was actually from James
himself.
So we exchanged emails and textmessages.
Yeah, james Baker has my phonenumber.
Joining us in the episode areRorschach Test guitarist, the
(03:24):
immensely talented Colby Peoples.
I can't wait for you to hearwhat this guy can do with an axe
.
You're going to hear it in theepisode.
Are Rorschach Test guitarist,the immensely talented Colby
Peoples.
I can't wait for you to hearwhat this guy can do with an axe
.
You're going to hear it in thisepisode.
And also James's wife.
She's now a lyricist forRorschach Test.
She actually wrote the lyricsto the song Fallen and she's got
the online.
I guess nom de plume as thenarcoleptic goddess.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Here we go, sir, hello.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
What's going on, my brother?
How are you?
Speaker 3 (03:48):
How are you doing?
Speaker 1 (03:49):
I'm doing great.
Hey, Colby, nice to meet you,man, Nice to meet you too.
Hello, goddess.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Hello, I have a human name too.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Christine, I didn't know if you wanted to use that
or if you just wanted to go withthe narcoleptic goddess.
I've been planning on callingyou goddess the whole time, but
we can go with the brand, forsure.
Yeah, stick to the brand.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
I'll gladly accept.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
I'm sure you will.
I'm sure you will.
Hey, thanks for taking time outof your busy schedules to chat
with me.
I was just talking in theopening about how I stumbled
upon Rorschach test in 1998 whenyou were opening for Jenna
torturers in St Louis.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Did the nurses take care of you?
No, they did not, they lookedfor guys like you.
You know, they bring them up onstage and put them on the
stretcher and uh, we'll leave it.
Uh, we'll leave it there, Ofcourse.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah, no, that was an R-rated show.
That was not the X-rated that Ihave been to.
So lots to cover with all threeof you, including the upcoming
Halloween release of the new CD.
I can't wait for that.
I've already heard and watchedthe video for Fallen.
We're going to talk about that.
We're going to talk aboutBelated, the new song that, uh,
(05:03):
I see I've seen on, uh, thegoddesses meta page.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Yes, it's, uh, it's up on our official YouTube
channel and it's on our websiteas well.
So, Awesome.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
And then we're going to talk about the old material
and we're going to talk aboutmental health, because I did not
know this, james Baker, butwhen you took a break in 2002,
you went and got your behavioralhealth therapist degree.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Eventually yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
That's awesome, brother.
That is so cool.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Right, right, yeah, it is, it's very cool.
So I, I, uh, uh, you know, somepeople do it to uh find a
profession and uh.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
then there are some of us who, who actually need to
do it some of us who whoactually need to do it, but
you've parlayed that into aninteresting uh, I don't know if
it's a profession, but you're ahospice chaplain.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Yeah, I actually.
You know when, when you're, uh,going through your resume, um,
and looking at your updatedskills lists and where you've
been to school, and you plugthat all into these AI resume
machines and they recommendexactly who you should work for.
(06:16):
What kept popping up waschaplain, and I was like, well,
chaplain, why are they doingthat?
And it's simply because I havethe creds.
I went to seminary when I waslike well, chaplain, why are
they doing that?
And it's simply because I havethe creds.
You know, I went to seminarywhen I was a very young man and
graduated and was ordained atthat time, and really, you know,
there's most.
(06:37):
Most people say that ordinationkind of lasts for your whole
life or whatever, but I hadthose credentials and I applied
for an outfit here in Phoenixand they immediately accepted me
, and it's been an incredibleexperience for me personally.
(06:58):
I had no idea what I was in for, what I was in for, but I can
tell you that probably the mostmeaningful moments of someone's
life all come to a summary point, and I'm fortunate enough to
get to hold the hands of peoplewhen they're passing from this
(07:21):
existence into whatever's next,and that's a very powerful
moment.
Isn't that heavy for you,though you know you would think
it is, but it's not.
It's actually.
For me, it's something that ishelping me with the whole topic
in understanding how the humanexperience has some very natural
(07:47):
points that it goes through.
We all like all of us hopefullytoday took a crap right.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
So we all do these things that are just natural and
not to minimize someone passingaway, but literally it's just
like taking a crap.
It's something that the bodydoes at some point.
Something that we all do, yeahsomething that we all do, and
you know people say that we areenergy in a flesh cage and that
(08:19):
when that flesh cage dies, orour tent, or our body, whatever
we want to call it when it givesup, finally, the energy is
eternal and it keeps going andit just goes someplace else, and
it's been really cool for me tosee that literally illustrated.
(08:41):
When people are passing away,you can almost observe or see
this energy force leaving theirbodies.
It's really amazing.
So then we do go on for eternity, then you know I'm not going to
get into theology here, but Iwould say that you know everyone
(09:02):
has their own opinion on that,and I do know that the body is
just a mechanism.
Okay, it's not the wholeenchilada.
Your body is just a mechanism.
Something is operating thatmechanism, it's making it
animated and causing it to dothings, and that something is an
energy, I believe.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
To the goddess, then, to expound on that.
How much energy do you havedealing with narcolepsy?
Speaker 4 (09:29):
I have no energy in this plane of existence, but in
the dream world I can do veryamazing things and travel to
places that probably only people, after they pass this world,
get to see and travel actually.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
You and I are very similar.
When I reached out to James toinquire about you guys coming on
, I looked at your Facebook pageand all the memes that you have
and the one that you and I areso spiritually connected,
because the one that I reallylooked at was me how I feel when
I commit to something fivemonths ago and me how I feel
when that day comes that I'vemade that commitment.
(10:08):
It's like, oh my God, what wasI thinking?
Oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
I do it every time, every time.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
And we commit because it's out of love and it's out
of compassion to help somebodyor be with somebody, and then,
all of a sudden, that day comesand you're like, oh my God,
where'd the energy go?
Yeah, I wish we all had theenergy of Colby's fingers.
Holy shit bro.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Oh man, I don't even know where to start.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
I had not known about you until I watched the video
to Fallen and brother I got totell you, man, you are amazing.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
You haven't even heard anything yet.
Wait until the album drops.
Wait until the album drops.
People are going to be.
I mean, I'm already counting onsomeone stealing him away.
Nah, I'm too lazy for that, youknow.
People ask me all the time well, why are you coming back now?
And they're hoping for somekind of legendary answer, like
(11:06):
the election season was suchthat I had to rise up and do
something about it.
But the truth of the matter is,to make music at least for me,
it requires several thingscoming together and all of those
things working correctly.
And I have not had that foryears until this time, this
(11:31):
moment in working with thegoddess as far as a lyricist,
and then understanding, and thenColby, who understands and
interprets what I say to him,what I lay down as a guide track
.
I'll just say here's the idea Ihad for a song, and then I'll
come back in an hour and it'llbe a masterpiece.
I'll be like what?
Yeah, so it's amazing.
(11:54):
Rorschach test has always beenthat the concept has always been
an alchemy of all sorts ofdifferent elements gothic
industrial metal, of all sortsof different elements gothic
industrial metal, you know andfusing those together and making
it work in music.
And that's happening again in abig way.
(12:14):
And it's totally because of thepersonnel that I've surrounded
myself with, or I should saythat I have been blessed to be
surrounded with, as well asbeing sober and present in the
moment for the first time indecades for him.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
So that is awesome, brother.
Congratulations.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Well, thank you.
Yeah, sure, Sure, yeah, that'sa big part of it.
You know, you don't really geta lot done when you're, you said
.
I almost laughed.
You said in 1998, you stumbledacross Rorschach.
I said, well, you're in goodcompany because, believe me,
that was the time.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yes, 1998.
, that's four years old Right.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Oh, my God, yeah, if you want to know how bad it was
for me, I actually got thrownoff the genitorchers bus.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Really.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
I didn't want anything to do with me.
They're like man, this guy.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
So then that kind of begs the question then, how
close to death were you?
Are you amazed that you'restill alive?
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Yeah, I mean, most people are.
In fact, when I kind of when Ikind of reemerged here just
recently with Fallen andannouncing that we were getting
the project back together, I'veprobably received at least 20
comments from people who'veknown me in the past who said oh
, thank God, I thought you weredead.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Well, there also at one point like six years ago on
Wikipedia, there was a Wikipediathat said he had drowned or
died in a river and we had tocontact Wikipedia to have him
take it down.
But it was up for like a yearsaying that he had passed away.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
There's a song in there.
There is a song in that exactly.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
Was it a river that they said you died in?
Yeah, in.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Idaho.
I died in a river in Idahosomewhere.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Have you ever swam in Idaho?
Speaker 3 (14:17):
No, I haven't.
Totally inconceivable, thenyeah, wikipedia, anybody can
edit that.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
They don't Do they, oh, okay, anyways.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
No, yeah, anybody can edit that.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Oh my gosh.
I hope I don't have one,because ChatGPT knows about me.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Oh yeah, Isn't that scary stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
I love ChatGPT.
I don't know what you're alltalking about.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Well, you would, because you're you're
technically in sound, you know Imean, james has even said it in
previous interviews that whatyou know about the buttons and
the knobs far surpasses anythingthat we know.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
I could go so far as to say that I was probably
somewhat raised in this room.
I had been hanging out in thisroom, I mean with the owner,
mike Bollenbach, since I wasabout I don't know 13, 14.
I lived in the neighborhood mywhole life.
He saw me playing guitar and hewas like come check out my nerd
box.
I walked into his nerd box andwas like, oh, apparently that's
(15:18):
what I'm doing with the rest ofmy life.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
And here we are, To get as proficient on an
instrument, especially guitar,as you are, Colby.
After school you just rush home, sit in your room and just
start noodling.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
That's all.
Even in class I didn't payattention, I just I just finger
dance, just spirit fingers, youknow, and I think it was a way
to cope with certain aspects ofmy life.
And I enjoyed playing guitarand it just became an obsession
and I was even thinking today onthe way here oh, they're going
to ask questions.
What are they going to ask?
(15:51):
What should I prepare?
Prepare myself, to say and Ithink a great way to put it is
like a series of bad decisionsremedied by obsession is how
this has all evolved, you know,and it's just kind of cool.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
That's another great quote, to go along with the
other quotes that james has.
I mean, brother, I've been.
I think I've watched everyinterview that you've done in
preparation for this.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
I'm probably over prepared for this conversation
and I'm still highly nervousabout talking with you because I
am such a fan oh, I watch your,your podcast I'm your fan, so
I've been so nervous, like andlike you were so brave and so
amazing to to tell your storyand I think you help so many
(16:33):
people and it just it fills myheart with joy because you are,
you are yeah you are inspiringothers to keep going and
continuing on in their lives,knowing that they there's
someone else that feels the sameway as you do, and I think
that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
That's the whole point of the fuzzy mic and I
know that that is now themajority point in your in your
lives, especially with Rorschachtest is to let people know that
there are other people outthere going through the same
thing, Even high profile people,for lack of a better term.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Right?
Well, it's, it's.
It's really simple.
You know, just like all of ushave physical health, we all
have mental health too, and thatmental health can change.
Just like our physical health,we can get sick with a cold or
flu health.
We can get sick with a cold ora flu.
(17:27):
Our mental health can also getsick with various things that
you know can afflict the humanbrain.
But the point is we all, at onepoint or another, are not in
the best shape mentally, I don'tcare who you are.
So it's time for us, as people,to really just get rid of all
of the stigma that surroundsmental health and things like
(17:49):
addiction and substance usedisorder, and make it so that
it's comfortable to have thatconversation if you have to.
One of the things that kills somany, that puts them in the
grave, is simply because theyare afraid of what other people
are going to think if they comeout and say I have a problem.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Which that, right there, leads me to one of the
greatest quotes I've ever heard,and it's from you, james Baker.
Living in the prison of someoneelse's opinion is worse than
living on death row.
That's exactly what you'retalking about right there.
We're so afraid of what otherpeople are going to say about us
that we don't open up.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Right, exactly, and you know we're kind of tuned
into that frequency from youth.
You know, with the way that oursocial construction works We've
learned that if we do certainthings we get an attaboy or a
pat on the back or approval.
(18:46):
And nobody really from youthand hopefully this is changing,
but for me nobody from my youth,I should say ever even
discussed the concept of beingcomfortable with yourself.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
It's just now becoming a topic, and I think
the biggest problem that set theworld over the edge was the
pandemic.
And it highlights the mentalhealth crisis so bad.
We are in dire need.
Everybody of help.
Everybody's suffering mentallyfrom what we've been through.
(19:20):
It's a collective traumaticevent the lockdowns, all that.
The drug use increased majorly.
Now we deal with fentanyl Backin my day.
I'm a recovering addict.
I have 21 clean off heroinsince I put a needle in my arm
and back then like I knew Imight die, you know, but
whatever, that's how I felt atthe time.
(19:40):
But nowadays you take the chanceof taking anything and you're
gone you do you do speed and youthink and you're going to die
from maybe fentanyl, or there'sthe other one in it now and it's
terrifying.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
They think they're getting a percocet and it's, uh,
actually a fentanyl.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
Well, that's it's in everything xanax anything,
everything, and it's, it's, it'sterrifying, and mental health
needs to be talked about more,and I see so much of it on a
large scale, having a page withover 600,000 followers, and I
wish I could help them all, butI can't.
But I can be there in the dirtwith them and let them know that
(20:18):
I've felt this way as well andI think that helps a lot of
people.
But I think we're suffering.
I think we're all suffering andwe all need help, and I think
the medical system needs torecognize that and treat it
better, because they're nottreating it as the whole part.
They're just giving a pill whenyou need to treat the mind,
body and soul, or otherwiseyou're just going to go back to
(20:40):
the beginning.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Yeah, it's also time for us to get away from the
concept of that the doctor fixeseverything, because he doesn't.
He probably knows, I meanseriously, doctors for the most
part are just as stumped as weare when it comes to this kind
of stuff.
They're still trying to figureout what causes certain mental
(21:01):
health issues and substanceabuse, and there's all sorts of
different theories and ideas.
But the thing is is we need tofocus on community issues and
you know all of us helping eachother out.
That's where it's really at.
Anyone will tell you who's evermade a successful run at
(21:24):
recovery or facing their mentalhealth crisis.
It isn't the doctor that savedthem, or the pills or the
program.
It's the peer.
It's the peer.
It's that person who's standingwith them, who knows what
they've been through and whosays those words that we all
want to hear hey, it's OK,you're not alone.
(21:46):
I've been through that too, andit's all right.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
And there's so much to unravel there.
And I want to start with wherewe kind of picked up that part
of the conversation with otherpeople's opinion.
Picked up that part of theconversation with other people's
opinion.
Goddess, you get attacked somuch because of your memes
online.
Number one it's disgusting whatpeople will say to you.
And number two how do you notinternalize that and have it
(22:10):
affect you?
Speaker 4 (22:12):
It has been the greatest journey of my life,
like the ultimate shadow work,to watch people attack me and be
mean to me, like so.
A year ago I posted, I revealedmy face for the first time and
there were, like, I think, 222comments and there were seven
not so nice comments.
And guess which comments, whichcomments?
(22:35):
I will remember forever thoseseven and um and it.
You know.
I did a lot of shadow workabout that and was like, well,
why do I even care about theseopinions and why are they
attacking me?
It's a reflection, it's reallya reflection of them and how
they're feeling and people getreally jealous that I have so
many followers and how dare I.
(22:56):
And she's not even that pretty.
Oh my goodness, she doesn'tdeserve that.
So it's jealousy, it's envy,and there's just mean people on
the internet that want to dragyou down and destroy you.
They enjoy it.
I had someone.
It crosses over from theinternet to real life for me.
I've had stalkers.
(23:16):
I've had people accuse me ofhorrible things and try and tell
my husband I'm having an affairwith someone else and it's just
all made up stuff to try anddestroy me and cancel me.
I've learned a lot of self-care, and loving myself is what I've
learned from my page.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
So how do we do that?
How do we do that?
Because I also in, like youjust said, 220 comments.
Seven are negative.
I dwell on those seven negative.
You know I was talking withOzzy's former bass player, phil
Sousan, and he was actuallyplaying on stage one night and
some guy yelled out you suck,everybody else is there to have
a great time.
(23:55):
The lead singer stops the showto confront this one person,
neglecting the 5,000 other thatare in there.
You know why do we dwell on thenegative?
Speaker 4 (24:04):
There's a thing in humans, like the train wreck
effect, where we will spend moretime looking at the train wreck
than we will at the beautifulflower It'll just pass by, and
it's a natural phenomenon, andwe all do it.
Flower It'll just pass by, andit's a natural phenomenon and we
all do it.
So online we see the negativebias, the horrible comments,
because we love to look at it.
Even though we're notinteracting, we're looking at it
(24:26):
and the algorithm sees that, soit keeps feeding us more
negativity because we keeplooking at it.
So it's because of us.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Actually, Well, and that's one of the things that we
, one of the themes that youtalk about in Belated, where you
don't blame religion, you don'tblame fake book.
I want to go back to somethingthat, james, you were talking
about about how we need peers,we need companionship.
So how do we break the ice withpeople to talk about mental
(24:59):
health?
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Well, not to sound, you know, cliche, but really
9-8-8 is a great way to startand wherever you're at in the US
, if you dial 9-8-8, they'regoing to connect you with an
operator that you can startsharing with the operator what
your issues are.
And if you're not so muchinterested in something like
(25:24):
residential treatment or seeinga doctor or things like that,
you can specifically just sayhey, where are good peer
connections for me?
I suffer with alcoholism and Iwant to be in a good peer-based
group.
Where do I find that?
And they'll know they have allthe resources summarized and
(25:47):
ready to go on their desk toshare that with you.
So 988 from any cell phone, anyphone in America, will get you
tapped in to that network.
And if you're outside of the US,wwwfindahelplinecom, no matter
where you're at in the world,that's going to give you the
(26:11):
resources to get out there andtalk to someone.
And you know it's just actuallygoing through with the phone
call that I'm interested in withthe people that listen to
Rorschach test.
I want them to realize that,even though it seems like really
(26:31):
hard to do, it's something thatyou can do, it's something that
a lot of us have done.
And once you start talkingabout where you're at in the
struggle, you're going to findthat just this huge burden gets
lifted from you immediately.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
What is it about?
Talking about things thatfreeze us?
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Yeah, it's because when we internalize something
and we're just letting it playin the echo chamber of our huge
psyche, we get no feedback fromanyone.
But what's in there, in thatoil drum of of of you know
vastness there?
And it's just when you, when webounce it off of somebody else
(27:14):
and say, hey, Colby, have youever, you know, have you ever
had trouble with, uh, this orthat?
Speaker 1 (27:20):
or you know and kobe, says well, yeah, of course I
have.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Lots of people have that problem.
My uncle, he had that problem.
My, my friend, tony, he hadthat.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
Whatever you know, the point is like a sigh of
relief to hear that someone elsehas gone through that, because
you feel so alone in the moment,so alone, and just to know that
someone else has been there cansave someone's life.
It saved my life before.
I used to go to counseling, andit wasn't the counselors that
(27:53):
saved me, it was a peer supportspecialist.
Wow, it was a peer supportspecialist.
Wow, and I myself went to schooland became a substance abuse
counselor, but I found that Icouldn't help anyone because too
many people had mental healthproblems and I'm not allowed to
treat that.
So I wanted to go back toschool to be a psychologist,
whatever.
Never got to that, but I wantedto be able to share some of my
(28:17):
story with them, and you're notallowed to do that as a
counselor, a substance abusecounselor.
So I was like, yeah, this isn't.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Not the role for you.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
Yeah, Me because it's hard.
It's a hard job.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Oh, I can't imagine how hard it is.
You know I.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
Most people are court ordered.
They don't want to get clean.
They're very angry and thenangry at me because I had to
give them a UA and they might goback to jail.
So it got really scary.
You know what?
Speaker 1 (28:43):
led you both to getting clean.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Oh well, you know, for me it was a pretty easy
decision, my, you know.
And then I got a phone callfrom somebody that I cared about
(29:06):
very much and she said James, Ijust have one question for you,
does anybody really know you?
And that just completely echoedall through my being.
I was just like you know, Idon't think anybody really does,
and I don't, I don't, I'm notso sure I, I know who I am
(29:27):
myself.
And then that also that thatperson said you know, your
family loves you, you, we'regoing to be for here for you as
long as you, um, you know, dosomething and go to treatment or
do something to address this.
But because if you don't, thenyou know, we're kind of going to
(29:49):
have to just let you go and uh,so yeah, it's, it's pretty wild
.
I actually had one of my drugdealers drive me to Sweden.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
That's impressive on his part.
It's awesome.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
Biden told me it was his.
You know, really good friend.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Yeah, so, yeah, that was a trip.
But uh, yeah, so, uh, yeah,that was a trip, um, and I think
, you know, I think I, I told,uh, I told this this individual,
look, just drop me off here,come back in a week, meet me
right here at this spot, becauseI, you know, I was already
looking for a back door to getout of treatment and, uh, uh,
fortunately, um, I had just theright counselor in there.
(30:39):
And, yeah, if anyone's lookingfor treatment for substance use
disorder, I want to recommendSundown M Ranch in Yakima,
washington, a really magic place, incredible place.
So I did the full 28 and gotout and I haven't looked back
(31:02):
since.
So, you know, I think, for eachof us and anyone will tell you
this there's no, you know, I'veheard people say, well, johnny
has to reach his bottom beforehe can get help.
I mean, that may not be true.
Okay, all of us are differentwhen it comes to that kind of
(31:24):
stuff.
We all react differently, weall use differently, we all.
You know, there's nogeneralization that really works
with an addict.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
But we have to be ready and want it for ourselves,
Otherwise it's not going tohappen.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
James, I heard you say in a previous conversation
with somebody that you thoughtyou hit bottom and then all of a
sudden the ice cracks open andyou fall a little further.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
How do you know what bottom?
Speaker 1 (31:46):
is.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Yeah, exactly, you don't, it's a disease.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
It will always be here.
I may have not shot up heroinin 21 years, but maybe next week
I might, and that's terrifyingbecause that's just addiction.
I'm not going to, I have noplans to, but it could happen
and that's terrifying.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
That's what that right there is.
What scares me about theopening lines of belated and my
life Woke up Sunday morning andwithout a warning, I made the
choice to get right out of here,brother, man, that's me, that
you know.
I am so impulsive and that'swhat scares me, man, that song
(32:26):
really resonates with me becauseof that reason.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Right right.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
It's a really deep song that's written about
someone that was very close tome, my son's father.
We lost him and never got tosay goodbye to him.
We got a call from thecoroner's office instead, but
(32:50):
every year on his birthday myson gets to blow out the cakes
on the candle and he'll always,forever.
He'll never hit 40 because henever got to make it but, um,
that song was inspired by himand he didn't commit suicide.
It was more of an accidentaldrug overdose.
But someone doesn't justaccidentally take six different
(33:12):
types of drugs.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
I know that so again, again, you and I have something
in common, because my fathertook his own life.
Oh yeah, then I never got tosay goodbye.
And james, you talk about notknowing yourself.
I look at the pictures of mydad and me together and I'm like
I don't know that guy.
I, I just I don't know that guy.
He was very, very.
He wasn't.
Uh, he he was.
I will say he was secretive,but not secretive to the
(33:37):
detriment of people.
He was just secretive becausehe didn't know how to open up.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Right, and plus, all of us get caught in that trap of
what we talked about earlier.
We're so obsessed withpresenting some kind of identity
to the world, the outside world, that we are terrified to slip
up in that role and be human andlet people see that, hey, we're
(34:02):
not all together.
There are things about us thatare not so pleasant, and that's
been a real, a learning pointfor me that I can thank the
goddess for.
I mean, she turned me on to alot of things that I hadn't
really been exposed to before,things like Eckhart Tolle and,
(34:27):
you know, the real teachings ofCarl Jung in terms of embracing
the shadow self, realizing thatyou know you are who you are
good and bad.
There's that bad part of youtoo, and rather than trying to
keep that secret from everybody,man, just let it out.
Let it out.
Let people know I'm a freak,I'm weird in certain ways.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
Add to that not only embracing the shadow of yourself
in that shadow are amazinggifts of gold that we've buried
there.
It's not just all bad stuff.
There's amazing gifts that wehave hidden inside of ourselves.
So if you take the time to dothe work, your life will change
in amazing ways.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
It's the same message in all the lyrics in Fallen.
You're speaking the song rightnow.
That's probably why you wroteit.
Hey Colby, what, how muchconfidence do you get with the
(35:32):
guitar in your hand?
Speaker 2 (35:37):
None, you pick up a guitar and you, honestly, the
more you know, the less, theless you know, I guess, in the
grand scheme of things, and I'mvery humbled when it comes to
the instrument, I don't I don'tfeel very cocky at it at all,
but I do pick it up and it feelsagain like I said earlier, it's
just something I used, it's myown version of obsession, it's
(35:57):
my own version of healing orcoping.
And when you put a guitar in myhand here we go, man, like, oh,
can I do this?
Oh, I guess I can.
Okay, so it's a weird questionto answer, but I'm just along
for the ride when I startplaying.
You know what I mean.
It's not something that I justpick up and oh, I start
shredding.
Look at me.
I mean it's not something thatI just pick up and oh, I start
shredding, look at me, I feelgreat.
(36:18):
You know, it's not like that atall.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
So how much, how much self-doubt or how much
questioning will go into 2025when you're touring with
Rorschach Test?
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Very, very little.
I've actually been thrown underthe bus for years playing
guitar, going and doing showswhere the entire band is
completely underprepared or, um,I mean, I've had moments in
past where there were littleshows that are like day of hey
man, the set list, um, the setlist fell apart.
(36:48):
Can you learn five, four orfive songs right now?
And it's like the confidencegoes out the window with that
stuff.
You're like sure, I guess.
And then you know James isactually really punctuated, he's
really well prepared and he'slike oh, I'm going to book a
show.
I couldn't tell you how manytimes this year alone, people
are like can you play a showwith me?
It's in two weeks.
(37:10):
You got 12 songs, james ispreparing.
I mean, we've been talkingabout this for eight months and
I've been at home woodsheddingthe songs, preparing equipment.
I mean we've got, we'replanning, we're preparing.
So I feel confident about thetour, about the shows to come,
the recording, because of the, Iguess, the preparedness of the
(37:32):
of the staff.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Yeah, I mean just even go, even going to the show
in 1998.
James, I could tell that youwere a no bullshit guy back then
and but, but but that thatpersona on stage and knowing you
now, it seems like you havekind of mellowed a little bit.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
You know, and but I was, I was mellow off the stage
then too.
I mean, that's one of thethings that freaked out a lot of
people back in those days isthey were like what happens to
you when you get on stage and Idon't know what happens?
Speaker 1 (38:05):
it's, it's uh the music goes through you.
It's just like what colby'stalking about.
He picks up the guitar and theinstrument.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
The music speaks to him right, right and uh, there's
a great uh, uh, right, right,and there's a great sense of
relief and therapeutic value tograbbing an SM-70 and screaming
your guts out.
I mean, you're done.
When you're done with that sortof experience, you're like, oh,
I feel so purged and cleansedand great, you know.
(38:35):
And what's even more edifyingis, you know, seeing the fans
out there who are definitelyconnecting and relating and
sometimes singing along with youor screaming along with you.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Well, you talked earlier in a previous
conversation about peoplerelating to Rorschach test
lyrics and people telling you ohmy gosh, now I don't feel alone
.
Let me also tell you a way thatRorschach tests helps people
not take their own life, becausewe get so wrapped up in the
song that we listen to it overand over and over and by the
(39:13):
time we've listened to it forthe 15th consecutive time, we're
like what was I obsessing about?
What was I thinking abouttaking my own life for?
Speaker 3 (39:21):
I'll share a stupid dog trick that somebody taught
me when I was early in recoveryand I still use it to this day
and I probably will for my wholelife.
But when that urge comes, whatwe were talking about, the first
lines of belated, thatoverwhelming, just out of the
(39:42):
blue, random urge comes and itcould be for suicidal ideation,
it could be for you know otherforms of self-harm.
It could be drugs, alcohol, sex, gambling, whatever.
(40:02):
When the urge comes on, justtake that moment and say you
know what?
I really, really want to go doa plate of cocaine and I'm going
to do it tomorrow.
Tomorrow's the day I'm going toreally do it up tomorrow and
I'm going to get my favoriteplate and I'm going to get my
(40:24):
whatever.
You know you get ready inmentally.
You're like tomorrow's going tobe that day, man, 8am tomorrow,
I start.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Dude, it's brilliant because we're all masters of
procrastination.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
And the slogan is just for today, so tomorrow.
Just for today.
You're going to stay clean, sothere's no code, right, okay?
Speaker 3 (40:43):
absolutely yeah, you just repeat this process the
next day, right?
But uh, you know, uh, it workswith suicidal ideation as well
if you're feeling that you'rejust like you know what.
Tomorrow's the's the day, andthen, when tomorrow comes, just
do the same thing, the sameexact thing, and pretty soon
(41:04):
you've got some distance behindyou and it's no longer the urge
that's trying to drive the bus,you know.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Yeah, and you just got to remember that it's not a
permanent feeling, it's just apermanent solution to a
temporary feeling.
You know, and, and and I, Iremind myself that when I'm
going through dark periods.
But, um, seriously, man, as Ijust said, your music has helped
me a lot.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
It's helped me a lot.
I love hearing that and, uh, II always get blown away when I
get emails or messages frompeople telling me that, um you
know which is great, because itdefinitely has gone both ways Uh
, the, the unclean album that Iwrote was, uh, you know, that
(41:48):
was me spilling my guts on paperand then in front of the
microphone, and it seemed toreally resonate with a lot of
people as well.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
Well, it had to be cathartic for you, number one it
was yeah.
Yeah, and number two.
That's one of my all-time fivefavorite CDs, so if I were ever
stranded on an island, thatwould be one that I'd take.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
Well, I'll share something with you here.
You can break as breaking newson your show here.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
This is Channels Television's breaking news.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
We are going to.
After we're done with Fallen,we are going to reimagine the
album Unclean.
We're going to re-record allthe tracks and we're going to
reimagine it with Colby at thewheel, and we're going to bring
out.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Oh no, no one messes with.
Speaker 4 (42:37):
Colby's guitar.
Oh my goodness, Magic fingers.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
How do you describe Rorschach test music?
Speaker 3 (42:44):
Sonically speaking in what you hear.
The point of Rorschach test isit's absolutely up to you what
you see and hear, and that wasthe point of the original, you
know, inkblot, that wasdeveloped by Mr Rorschach
himself way back when.
It's a really simple answer tothe question and that's really
(43:05):
metaphorical for life itself.
We complicate things as people.
Speaker 4 (43:15):
We try to make it so much more complex than it ever
is.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
You know, the bottom line is just by integrating all
the pieces of you and allowingthose things to be and realizing
that you know the only personwhose approval matters at the
end of the day is yours when itcomes to you.
(43:37):
And then you know finding thatplace in your life where you do
approve of yourself, whereyou're OK, and you say you know
what, yeah, I'm weird, you knowI'm.
I've got these good things too.
I'm talented.
Sometimes I do this, sometimesI do it's OK, it's who I am.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
I'm this person and it's the first Rorschach test, a
song that was not written byJames Baker, Number one.
How long did it take you towrite it?
Speaker 4 (44:18):
Maybe 10 minutes.
It's about it, it came out itcame out of a dream and it's not
what it I mean it is.
There's many layers of meaningto it, but to me it came out of
a dream and I was trying to umfrom a question.
In the dream from Apostle Pauland Jesus Christ himself, from
(44:41):
Apostle Paul and Jesus Christhimself, like my Netflix
mini-series of my Apostle Pauldreams, I was asked kind of to
find, well, is there reallywhere is the devil mentioned in
the Bible?
How many?
So I went through the wholeBible and I found every
reference to the devil or Satanor whatever.
So I didn't even really writeit.
(45:02):
The Holy Bible wrote it.
It came from God.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
Couldn't you have just asked the seminary graduate
, instead of going through thewhole book when was it finished?
Because I always like to askthis question of writers,
because it could never befinished.
You know they'll go back andrewrite, and rewrite, and
rewrite.
So when did you know it wasdone?
Speaker 4 (45:26):
well, I don't think it wasn't really written as
lyrics, it was just written downbecause I was gonna, like, give
it back to apostol paul in mydream.
Um, I gave them to him and hewas like these will make amazing
lyrics, but oh yeah, I couldstill edit it.
But actually I don't know.
Those are pretty amazing,amazing lyrics, but oh yeah, I
could still edit it, butactually I don't know, those are
pretty amazing fucking lyricsto me.
(45:47):
Even I still hear them and I'mlike wow, you know?
Speaker 1 (45:50):
oh, they're great.
Oh, they're really great,they're really great.
The video spectacular too, asis the uh, as is the.
The video and the lyrics forbelated.
Uh, james, you uh are on recordas saying that if the goddess
writes something and it's not upto RT Snuff, you'll let her
know.
How's that conversation?
How's that conversation go withyour wife?
Speaker 3 (46:09):
I mean we all, we all write.
You should hear some of thejunk on my computer.
I mean there's ridiculous songsthat I have invested hours into
and then I realized suddenlythat this is just stupid.
But no, I mean I really haven'tfound anything yet.
(46:30):
I mean she's been pretty prettyhow should I put it?
Stingy with, with her lyricsand stuff.
Speaker 4 (46:36):
She's very stingy, I hold them to their dreams.
Speaker 3 (46:39):
There's another, there is another, there is
another one that's finished onthe album.
We've already finished it.
It's called Embracing theShadow and it's a great song and
I think we're going to be doinga video on it.
I'm not sure, but I'm prettysure there's going to be a video
on that one too.
But yeah, so it's.
I really haven't had anoccasion where I've said to her
(47:04):
I don't want this.
Speaker 4 (47:05):
He's actually begging me for more lyrics when I'm
holding them back.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
So the kind of difference to me with the new
material and the former materialis in.
Lament would be the one thatwould kind of throw water on
this whole thing.
But it's more melodic to me.
The new stuff is more melodicto me.
It's a hookier and it's lessangry.
Am I?
(47:32):
Am I speaking out of my ass?
Speaker 3 (47:35):
No, not at all.
Yeah, I think, I think, yeah,yeah, I think there's there's
not a lot of anger.
Speaker 1 (47:41):
There's still aggression, there's and it.
I think there's not a lot ofanger, there's still aggression
and it's still heavy.
Speaker 4 (47:47):
We get to hear his beautiful voice this time.
The singing is screaming andgrowling.
It is not auto-tuner at all.
The actual singing, though,makes it feel less angrier and
more the way it is.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
There's a lot of texture there.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
There's a lot of texture there, you know we're
yeah, we're excited to unveilthe whole thing.
I think the way it's going tohave to work is that we're going
to have it available on ourwebsite, rorschachtestcom, on
Halloween, starting at like 10o'clock, but the release date is
(48:31):
not actually until November 1st.
That's because of all thedistribution companies are like
we only release on.
Speaker 4 (48:37):
Friday.
It has to be a Friday.
Speaker 3 (48:38):
It has to be a Friday .
So I'm like why does it have tobe?
Why can't we choose another?
No, we're going to do thatThursday.
Speaker 4 (48:44):
sorry You're making me angry.
I'm going to write a song.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Can we go back to a few songs from the early era?
Yeah, okay, is Elvis really toblame for all of societal ills?
Speaker 3 (49:05):
No, no, actually that song Was inspired by my dad.
When my dad was a soldier Inthe Korean conflict, he was on a
boat Going over to Europe, Iguess is where they stationed it
.
He didn't go to Korea, he wentto Germany or something and he
(49:29):
was listening to some music thatsomeone was playing.
My dad grew up listening onlyto Buck Owens, merle Haggard,
hank Williams, straight country.
And when he was in the servicehe heard Elvis for the first
time country.
And when he was in the servicehe heard Elvis for the first
time and you know he thought.
He thought, wow, this guy isgoing to really change
(49:52):
everything in the world for bad.
He's really going to.
You know, this is the devil,basically.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
And I thought I just, you know, when my dad told me
that story I was just kind of Iknew there was a metaphorical
meaning to it, but for just thethe you know, looking at it you
would think oh my God, elvisstarted all this nastiness.
Speaker 3 (50:10):
Well, there's a lot of blame shifting that goes on
in the human experience.
You blame rock and roll for allthe problems of society and you
know, when we get down to itand we don't have anybody else
to blame, we can always blamethe devil.
You know, the devil made me doit.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
That leads me to my next question Satan, you, me, us
.
We all have a little Satan inus.
How?
Speaker 3 (50:44):
No, we don't have Satan in us.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
We have evil.
Speaker 3 (50:48):
What that song is about is taking responsibility
for your own actions.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
So you know, when things go wrong in our life,
it's you, it's me, it's us.
We are the devil we are seekingto blame.
We are the ones that do thisstuff.
So, um, yeah, so that song hasbeen, uh, largely misinterpreted
by a lot of people.
But again, there's no wronginterpretation of a Rorschach
(51:14):
test song, yeah.
So, um, you know, if it meanssomething to you, that's
religious, that's great.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
It's like you read my notes here, james, because I
want to talk about Cripple Touch.
Meet me in my car, behind thebar, we'll build a prayer grass,
a ladder of hope.
What is hope?
Speaker 3 (51:39):
That was cocaine.
That story is talking aboutcocaine A line of hope right
yeah, so, um, yeah, and thatthat song again was a.
It's a just was a true storyabout, uh uh, my one of my
experiences when I was young.
I met a female at a bar and Ihad never really done cocaine
(52:01):
really and that kind of changedthat night.
Speaker 1 (52:05):
That's.
That's the song that promptedme to reach out to you, man.
I was running and that came onand I'm like I wonder what
Rorschach test is doing now.
And so I looked you up and youtalked about politics a little
while ago.
Are you amazed that blow upAmerica is still as relevant
today as it was back when youwrote it?
Speaker 4 (52:28):
No, no, I mean, I mean I, I don't you know these.
Speaker 3 (52:30):
Uh, that's the song they got you on the fbi.
I got a visit from the fbi onefine morning in seattle after
releasing that song.
Um, and you know they, theynotified me that I was
officially on their watch listbecause of the lyrics you know
saying and again, it's similarto Satan.
You know I am.
I'm not asking people toworship the devil.
(52:52):
I've never, ever, suggestedthat to anybody.
That's not what that song'sabout.
I would never suggested toanyone that they should do
anything terrorist oriented,that they should never.
What that song was about it waswritten from the perspective of
the Oklahoma City bomber.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
Today somebody tried to blow up America.
Speaker 3 (53:22):
They got a care of school instead, what was he
feeling, what was he thinking atthe time, and so that's simply
what it was about and peoplekind of read it in another way.
But yeah, I mean we couldchange the lyrics a little bit.
But there's still a lot of veryangry and disenfranchised
(53:44):
people in this country and Irecommend, rather than seeking
an outlet of fertilizer andfederal buildings, get yourself
into some heavy music andtherapy and you're going to be
okay.
We'll see you at the show.
Speaker 1 (54:02):
Yeah, I never interpreted those lyrics as you
telling somebody to be okay,We'll see you at the show.
You know, yeah, I never.
I never interpreted thoselyrics as you telling somebody
to go out and do that.
I always got the McVeighconnection and I always.
There's a.
There's an OJ stanza in there,if I'm not mistaken.
You can kill your wife or loverBecause the rock star lawyers
(54:27):
always beat the state God he setthe world on fire tonight.
Yeah, yeah, it's just thesocietal ills, man, that's what
it is, you know, and those arethe things that need to get
blown up.
We need to vote for Pedro.
We need to vote for Pedro.
We need to come together.
By the way, that's because, ifyou're not watching this on
(54:48):
YouTube, the narcoleptic goddessis wearing a vote for Pedro
shirt, and I went as NapoleonDynamite one year to a costume
contest, so you and I rightthere again.
So well, guys, I can't thankyou enough for joining me.
I can't thank you enough, james,for all of the years of
outstanding music and I can'teven tell you how happy I am
(55:09):
that in 2024 and 2025, rorschachTest is back.
Man Sounded better than ever.
Speaker 3 (55:14):
Hey, you know, you've got my, you got my number and
you, you know.
Just feel free to stay in touchanytime you want or feel like
it, ok.
Speaker 1 (55:24):
Well, yeah, because in the other podcast that I host
with my former radio partner of25 years, I teased that I was
going to be talking to you and Iwas like you know, if you would
have told me in 1998, when Isaw this guy performing, that I
would have his phone number andwe'd be texting back and forth
like we're long lost brothers,I'd have called you a fucking
liar, but I do.
I texting back and forth likewe're long lost brothers, I'd
have called you a fucking liar,but, dude, I I do.
I feel a great connection toall three of you guys, so thank
(55:45):
you so much thank you for havingus man.
I got a kiss flown to me fromthe goddess.
I think she's my new favoritemember of rorschach test.
Sorry, james.
My main objective with thefuzzy mic is to let anyone who's
battling with mental healthdemons know that you're not
alone, and I thank James, colbyand Christine for their candor
(56:10):
in helping spread the message.
If you or someone you know isstruggling with drug addiction
or experiencing suicidalthoughts, there are plenty of
places to go.
Please reach out for help.
You can contact the NationalSuicide and Crisis Hotline at
988 or the Suicide PreventionHotline 1-800-273-TALK 8255.
(56:35):
Or you can call the SubstanceAbuse and Mental Health Services
Administration NationalHelpline at 1-800-662-HELP.
Support is available 24-7.
And if you're listening to thisoverseas, outside of the US, go
to findahelplinecom.
My thanks to James Baker, thenarcoleptic goddess, and Colby
(56:58):
for joining me For all thingsregarding the band, including
their new music and possibletouring in 2025, go to
RorschachTestcom For laughterand spontaneous conversation.
Check out the Tuttle Klinepodcast.
New episodes every Wednesday.
The Fuzzy Mic is hosted andproduced by Kevin Kline,
production elements by ZachSheesh.
(57:18):
At the Radio Farm, social mediadirector is Trish Kline.
I can't believe it.
We are close to episode number100.
And you know what that doesn'thappen without you.
So thank you for joining me andfor supporting the Fuzzy Mike.
I'll see you next week, fuzzyMike.
Thanks for listening to theFuzzy Mike.
(57:38):
Check back often and stay.
Fuzzy, wait a second.
Did we read that right?
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!