Nintendo Switch 2 Leaks, Mario Kart Evolution, and Game Pass Debate | Game Junction Podcast #116 - The Game Junction Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brandon Hurles (00:00):
Hey, what's up everybody?

Mark Trobough (00:01):
Yeah, Mark.
No, I mean you threw me offthere for a second, Sorry.

I'm so used to just intro and go ahead.

Yeah, no, just welcome everybody back in to
episode.
What is this?
116 of the Game Junctionpodcast.
We've got two special guestshere.
We've got Thunderstache Gamingdown below.

ThunderStache Gaming (00:21):
What's up?
Happy to be here.
Lots to talk about.

I mean this has been a whirlwind week, yeah, so
there's, uh, no shortage oftopics uh yeah, there's plenty
to talk about.
And then we've got returningguest andre of game.

Andre GameXplain (00:36):
Explain how's it going it's been busy, as you
probably know only too well.
It's a good busy, yeah,definitely.

Yeah, I've seen the content that you got out and
stuff on everything thegrandparents' reaction.
I loved it.

Thanks, appreciate that.
It was fun to see their take oneverything.

That was really really cool.
So I guess we'll go ahead andkind of start out of the gate
showing off the video thateverybody got to see and if you
didn't get to see it, you cansee it now For our audio
listeners head on over to thevideo.
Or I apologize for the twominutes that this video takes up
, because it doesn't show much,but it shows enough to talk

(01:18):
about.
So it's pretty cool.
We'll go ahead and roll that.
Yeah, definitely like thestealth drop that they had on
this right shadow.

Dropped it like crazy yeah, poor uh,
although everyone who said itwas coming that day got
destroyed before.

It's not being announced in advance, yeah
right I think what I reallyliked about this trailer is that
it says nothing.
There there's no narration, butyeah, but it illustrates
everything, right, isn't thatbigger and better?

(01:58):
What are those?

little markings above the minus and plus there.

I assume some, probably some volume annotation
maybe.

Okay, yes, I thought I was pointing something
out ancient symbol or somethingso I mean obviously one point
to talk about here is the newkick stand, which it seems to be
.
So I mean obviously one pointto talk about here is the new
kickstand, which seems to bemaybe a better design.

(02:32):
What I find with my Switch OLEDis, obviously it is way better
than the other kickstand.
What I do find sometimes whenI'm setting it down is that it
does every once in a while ifit's not on a direct hard
surface, say like I've had itbefore it before laid up there
in bed with me actually usingthe Pro Controller I've done
that before a couple of timesthat it does end up falling down

(02:55):
flat.
So I'm curious if this changesthat any.

Yeah, I will just say, looking at it, it
looks better than the originalSwitch, but I don it doesn't.
It looks better than theoriginal switch, but like I
don't know if it's better thanthe oled, that's what I said
yeah, it looks.
It looks flimsier.
Honestly, it may not be, it'sprobably fine.
Um, it's just.
Yeah.
I don't see like any greatbenefit to it right out, right
out of the gate.
Like I did with the oled, whichfixed an obvious problem, it
feels more like we need some wayfor people to know this is a

(03:23):
switch to from the back.
Let's just cut a hole.

Yeah I thought the same thing because it
literally looks like a cut out,cut out of, like how the uh, the
oled one is, and it's a littleinteresting I thought might not
be as good of a design as Ithought it was.
I did a little reaction shortto it.
That's exactly what I said.
So I guess we'll have to seeand test it out in person.

But yeah, I guess so I guess it's hard to tell.
I assume it depends on whetheror not it's going to be made of,
uh, all plaster.
It's going to be part of themetal, same with the frame.

Oh yeah, actually did it go farther?
Oh, I guess I'll like to goabout that far back too, so all
right, so that's it.

That's all.
All the pillar customizationyou get.

So obviously we've got the spot here where
that connector is going to go in.
We've got this little buttonback here.
So C or is that just an O?
I can't tell.
It may be the way that I pausedit, but I mean, obviously the
Joy-Con is slightly bigger it.
But I mean you, obviously thejoy-con is slightly bigger, but

(04:27):
pretty much everything on on thebase of the the unit is is the
same, obviously with the buttonsyeah, outside of that, uh
blurred out c button yeah yeah,the blurred out c button is the
uh yeah, I will say like theyfound a way to present this very
similar looking hardware in away that still feels a little

(04:49):
exciting, which is impressive.

The Joy-Con is still basically the same thing
Bigger, magnetic now and thatnew mysterious button they
didn't even talk about, and themouse feature.

There's got to be a reason they didn't mention
that button.
That button has me thinkingthere's there's something
special about it.
It's got to be some sort of youknow new gimmick with the
switch to that we don't knowabout.
But a lot of people I mean, um,on past podcasts I've been on
and I talked about it on thispodcast a couple different times

(05:22):
is that it could be like a chatbutton.
It could be people have thrownout like a connect button to
some campus.

I've heard as well.

Yeah, I just wanted to point out because you
said the chat, this they didn'tmention there or they didn't
mention it, but they showed itthat there's an actual what's it
?
The three millimeter plug-in onthe switch to yeah, we know
you're not gonna at least haveto use the phone.
Hopefully it'll also useBluetooth as well.
It's at least one major,obvious flaw with the original
Switch.

Yeah, having to use the app was a huge one of
the biggest I still thinkdownfalls of the Switch, which
is pretty unfortunate becauseyou think, like I think, it has
a lot to do with it just beingNintendo was the reason they
didn't want to do it.
But yeah, I guess you know, Idon't know.
Hopefully we don't have to dealwith that anymore.

(06:13):
Or, franco, to be honest withyou, some people don't care.
All right, this is a big dealhere.
So we've got this laying flatlike this Obviously it's like a
mouse, it?

what a weird, fun and kind of cute way of
teasing it, you know, becausethey're moving like actual mice,
like physical, organic mice, um, but it instantly tells you
what it conveys.
But they don't linger on it atall and I'm like did I only pick
up on it because I'd beenfollowing the leaks, you know or
you know?
But then I watched it with myparents today, you know, in our
video that was mentioned earlier, and they immediately
recognized what it was.
I'm like, well, hats off toNintendo, they know what they're
doing here, apparently.

So yeah, pretty, pretty crazy stuff.
I mean definitely aninteresting because they've got
to have a gimmick of some kindbecause it is Nintendo.
So I mean, what an interestingone to um to have.
I guess that's something wedefinitely weren't expecting,
for sure, uh, but yeah, that'spretty neat there I'm excited

(07:13):
for it's something different.

You know, even if it's good or not, it's
something different all right,so there's the connector we've
got.

So this has been a big point of contention with
people, people are losing peopleare losing sleep over this man
Unnecessarily.
Quite literally I'm actuallygoing to.
I don't know if I can doublepull up.
If not, I'll just scroll backto where we were.
There's an image that I hadthat somebody made up this here.

(07:41):
It's literally just it snappingwith a sad Kirby there saying
oh no, I've seen this all over,all over x.
That's funny.
Um, what do you guys think?
Obviously, we just talked acouple of minutes before, uh, me
, mark and and thunderstache.
But what do you think?
As for this with, like, kids,is this going to be a big

(08:04):
problem with kids?

I, I'm personally not not too worried.
I mean I don't want to givenintendo too much credit these
days after the whole joy-confiasco with the you know
joysticks drifting within weekssometimes.
But with that being said, I'msure they've done multiple tests
, tons of testing on this.
There's no way they would havethat be a major failure point.
I say that knowing it is stillpossible.
But I, I'm not too concerned,especially because I got a, um,

(08:29):
uh, a, like a, a, a mock-up ofthe switch to you know, a, a
printed one, and like I've justbeen playing around with how it
disconnects and it seems likereally it's been designed in a
way that you probably can'treally apply any pressure to
that Sure, with naturaldisconnected, disconnected the
Joy-Con.
So I'm sure it's fine.
It looks, I agree it looksweird, but I don't think it's a

(08:52):
concern.

Yeah, I'm kind of.
I'm kind of with that.
I think people are just findingsomething to complain about a
little bit.
Yeah, Mark, you said the samething.

I mean even on the original Switch, because I
don't have the OLED, I just havethe OG one with the rails.
It's not like it's the moststurdy.
It's like the few times I playit on handheld.
Sometimes you put a little bitof pressure on it.
You feel it start to bend alittle bit.
But I think with it snappedinto place, the magnets is
probably obviously you have totake this into consideration.
If someone's kind of forcefulwith it, it's just designed to
come out, not necessarily thebend up and the front and the

(09:28):
back, how you'd actually snap it100%.
You could snap this but you'dhave to put a lot of force.
I don't know how many peoplejust take the switch like I
don't know.
Let me just slam it on theground like I would.
I'm going to take my pliersright to this little connector
like you have to go really outof your way to probably do
damage to this somebody commentssaid I have an eight and seven
year old.

Everything is a problem with kids, nothing is
safe.
I mean that that was one of thereasons I said, because my
daughter drops everything, dropseverything, but I I don't.
I don't know, I don't know ifthis is really going to be end
up being like a big issue or not.
I just I don't think it is.

I think it is more of people find something to
complain about, even assumingthey dropped it without the joy
cons attached or even with themeither way, like it feels like
that connector is probablypretty well insulated beneath
the plastic.
You know where.
It's not exposed like it'shidden, it's the shell protects
it.
So you'd really have to go outof your way to damage the thing.

I think now watch me be horribly wrong, but I
mean zero concern whatsoever thequestion is, do they come out
later and kind of do what theydid with the switch, where they
have the uh, the undockable mode, where it's just one solid
piece and that obviously wouldbe better for for more kids and
stuff like that on the go andwith it weighing one solid piece

(10:41):
, less likely for you to juststraight damage it?

so like a switch light yeah, the switch.
I don't know why I'm on the road, yeah I mean I, I expected, I'm
sure you guys expect the switchlight and eventually a switch
to oled.
Uh, that obviously seems towork very well.
Sure, they'll emulate the samething again.
But yeah, I mean the thing is,is that, how many times are you

(11:04):
taking the joy cons off?
And once you take them off,what are you doing with the unit
?
You're setting it up on thekickstand and playing it if
you're playing in tabletop mode,which, again, I don't think
this is a a hugely popular modebut if you are playing in
tabletop mode, you're justsetting it down in your plan,
right?
So it's really no differentthan any other.

(11:25):
You know, nice piece of uhelectronics that you have.
You know, handle it with care,don't drop it right.
They're all gonna break thesame way.

I'm not worried about this piece right here yeah
, I I can happily say I've never, uh, had any issues with.
I've had five differentswitches.
Never had any issues with it.
Definitely never did with theWii U gamepad.
So I don't know, I don't thinkit's going to be a big thing.

(11:56):
Mr Coffee in the chat saidgotta ask the big question do
people play with the Joy-Cons orwith the Pro Controller Pro?

Controller all, pro controller all day, yeah,
all day too.

I, I don't know that I ever, honestly, I
don't know I ever used just ajoy con and I wouldn't do that
to anybody that comes over.
You know, like back in the day,like you give someone the mad
cats controller yeah, this feelssimilar, like I'm not going to
give someone just a joy-con toplay against me a mario kart

(12:29):
while I use the pro controller.

Like that's not right fair, you just don't um
what, yeah, yeah I, uh, I justdon't use the joy so I show you
can barely see, obviously withme on the side, but like I've
got the Hori ones on mine.
But even then, like I don'tknow, I still, even when I play

(12:52):
it portably, like I said, I doset it down in tabletop mode and
play with a pro controller IfI'm playing that way, if not,
obviously it's playing dockedand it stays docked like 90% of
the time.
I would say, but yeah, I mean,I think it'd be awfully hard to
break that.
Then somebody did bring up apoint and said something about
the.
He said at Thunderstacheassuming this is mouse

(13:16):
functionality, how do you thinkthis will be utilized in fun and
unique ways, or is it just a?

new version of the IR Blaster
underutilized a niche.
Oh, as far as this being usedas a mouse, I mean I think this
is gonna really attract the pcmarket like big time.
I think about all the games,right, like I, I bought my girl
a uh switch a few years agoactually it was when the animal
crossing bundle came out, right,yeah, of course she loved it,

(13:46):
but like anything it eventuallyit gets a little old.
And well, first question sheasked is is the sims on switch?
And I had to think about it fora second.
I'm like you know it's not, andthis was as of a few years ago.
I know, know, my Sims is onthere now because I got that for
yeah, so I had to fire up thePS4 to download Sims 4.

(14:08):
But you think about somethinglike that.
Think about how wildly popularthe Sims could be on Switch 2
with a mouse.
Now, yeah, there's so many gamesthat could like greatly benefit
.
You know, diablo.
Think about all the Microsoftgames, baldur's Gate yeah, cause
I expect a lot of thoseMicrosoft games to come over to

(14:31):
switch to, which I'm sure we'llget into later.
But yeah, the first personshooters, I mean this guy's the
limit.
This is really.
It's very smart because you'reyou're doing something where
you're not reinventing andtrying to change something that
works right.
Yeah, it's just because, whichwe've seen Nintendo do,

(14:51):
obviously numerous timesthroughout the years.
So, adding something like thisthat doesn't change the form
factor but changes the way youcan play it in a way that really
actually doesn't feel gimmicky,yeah, this legit could be very
useful and, as you guys know,games like Mario Maker, mario

(15:12):
Paint, obviously the sky's thelimit, man Bring back Mario
Paint.

That would be awesome, bring it to.

NSO.

Bring over the Mario Artist games from the 64
disk drive.

Why not Make a collection there?
Yeah, make a collection there.
Make a collection, that'sperfect.
That'd be awesome if they.

They did that, yeah, I'm.
I'm also way too excited forthe mouse feature like it just
looks like a fun new way ofusing joy cons and uh yeah, I
think so, to open the door tonew types of games.

Oh, yeah, for sure, and I do expect
nintendo to show us new ways touse the mouse that we've
probably never thought of beforeand other companies too.

Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, I think so, with othercompanies as well.

So you can see , I'm obviously inserting there
yeah, that's pretty slick likethat is way sleeker than you
know using the rail from thecurrent joy con yeah, yeah, it
absolutely is.

One thing I wanted to point out is obviously
that logo was legit, that wasgoing around there for quite a
while.
Um, I kind of wanted to pointout that it seems like, you know
, some of a lot of the leaks, alot of the big stuff talked
about was not inaccurate.
No, so it's a little crazybecause I can't think of

(16:34):
anything, even with the Switch 1, or I mean, you know, with the
follow-up, because the Wii wasso big with the follow-up, with
the Wii U, which you know,whatever, obviously a failed
project.
But I can't think of anothersystem dating all the way back
with Nintendo home consoles orhandhelds, where there's been

(16:56):
this many either leaks or rumorswith a console.
Do you guys agree or disagreewith that?

I would say.
Dating back to, I would saylet's start with, like the
dolphin, right?
Yeah, because that's whenthings really start to kind of
take off on the internet, as faras the, the various internet
forums where we get kind of newsand get excited about the
dolphin Sure and I don't recalland I follow that stuff daily, I

(17:26):
mean.

I think I've told you I was on like I mean, I
got every issue from 2000 tillthe last issue, Never, never
missed an issue.

So yeah, I was.
I was in the IGN uh forums backin the day.
I was constantly on like planetgame, cubecom, refreshing that,
you remember.
Yeah, yeah, nintendo dojo allthe nintendo websites from back
in the day, like I was therefollowing all this stuff, so I
don't recall it there.
I think with the nintendorevolution there, there was a

(17:59):
really good leak that came outearly, but everyone and I'll say
I didn't, but everyone wascalling BS on it back then, yeah
, and that was when the patentscame out for there being
built-in gyroscopes and sensorsin a controller, and everyone's
like what would this be for?
There's no way.

(18:20):
And then that turned out to be100% accurate.
Outside of that, no, I mean,but this be a hundred percent
accurate.
Outside of that?
No, I mean, but this is adifferent time we're living in.
Yeah, completely Like.
Even from when these leakswould have happened, which would
have been the end of 2016,right, early 2017, the world's
changed a lot and the wayeveryone communicates also, the

(18:42):
way people just seems to like bethat they don't care as much
what the repercussions might be,I mean, I wouldn't be surprised
if some people literallyapplied to work at one of these
factories in china, just to leakit, just to do that?
yeah, because they don't care wesee that they're just chasing,

(19:05):
you know, I guess.
Well, clout, which is a thing,apparently, and, uh, you know,
they want to be the next, yeah,leaker, which I didn't know that
anyone aspired to be.
That I thought you know whatI'm saying.
It's just, it's a differenttime we live in than when we
were growing up.
So I I understand why we'regetting all these leaks, uh, but

(19:27):
, andre, what do you think man,do you remember any time like
this?

not like this.
No, because even with theswitch, which you know, it was
almost a decade ago at thispoint, you know, there was still
social media around.
There was quite different, buteven that didn't leak.
You know there were rumblingsthat it would be a hybrid, but
we didn't have anything likefull.
You know full we didn't leak.
You know there were rumblingsthat it would be a hybrid, but
we didn't have anything likefull.
You know, full we didn't havethis.
You know, weeks before thesystem was revealed and when
Nintendo showed off, you knowwhat we're looking at on screen

(19:51):
right now.
I'm like that's straight up, asyou know, a render I'd seen.
Basically Someone had basicallymade, created that.
But I think also it's becausewe're operating on tighter
timetables than we ever havebefore.
Maybe Nintendo got lucky withthe Switch and how that didn't
leak to the original Switch andhow that didn't leak to this
extent or anywhere near.

(20:12):
But now that this thingpresumably is out within the
next six months and with themseemingly manufacturing at
larger inventories than beforeto ensure that they can sell as
many as possible at launch, itjust may be like.
You know, it was a losingbattle and uh, and I almost feel
like they just announced itjust to get out of the way.
You know.
It's like, hey, finally, hereyou go.
Stop using those render, thoserenders, use our official images

(20:35):
.
Because, yeah, it's just kindof crazy that everything was
known like literally thistrailer.
It didn't really revealanything but mar Kart, it just
affirmed everything we alreadyknew if we followed the leaks.

Right, yeah, I mean, it felt like a shadow drop
that they had to do.

It's kind of like you all ruined it, we wanted to
wait.
They obviously gave us the datelater on, at the very end of
when they're going to come outand say it in about two and a
half months.
It was kind of like, well, youall ruined it, come out and say
it in what?
About two and a half months?
This was kind of like, uh, well, y'all ruined it, we'll give
you this so you can leave usalone.
It's more is coming now andthen just be like whatever the
leakers ruined it.
But I guess the question is, uh,when it comes to the leak of

(21:14):
this, just I guess you knowandre said it did they get lucky
or going from the what the?
Essentially the failure of thewii u to the switch?
They were just less overallhype around this because you're
coming off of the heels of theSwitch, which is realistically
about to be the best sellingconsole of all time.
I think it's going to surpassthe PlayStation 2.
So it's just a whole differentenvironment with Nintendo, as

(21:35):
far as a failure to an eventualsuccess, to a massive success.
Now the next one.
Now everyone's hyped.

That's a really good point.
Actually, everyone cares now,whereas no one really cared.
Well, relatively no one caredback with the original switch
because, yeah, that's likenintendo was doomed, you know
yeah, that was it for nintendo.

People thought that they were.
They were going to be done forpretty much after the wii.

U like how many times have we heard that
in our life?
Oh, yeah, yeah, if you're anintendo fan, that's just
constant.

You know this is actually the first time
they've kind of like defied thatfor a little, for some period
of time at least yeah, yeah, no,no doubt I.

I definitely feel the same way,
all right now these colors heretoo, by the way, yeah, like I
gotta show you this picture.
So, looking at the blue and the, I would call it maybe a coral
or a yeah, maybe a salmon.
Look at this.

(22:34):
I'm going to share this picture.
Tell me if those colors lookfamiliar.
So I, I had this color righthere when they did the salmon,
but I I'd wanted to get itbecause in the original pictures
it looked orange and I want toget it for phoenix suns.
You know, phoenix suns colorpurple and orange.

(22:56):
And when I got it, obviously itdid look more like this.
But immediately when I saw thetrailer and I saw that it was
confirmed that it is thosecolors that we did see in the
leaks, I was like, dude, it'sright there, it's right there,
it's so funny because Nintendohas like a history of this.

It's actually surprising I don't get like this
doesn't get mentioned moreoften.
But, like you know, nintendohad the fun colors for the
Nintendo 64.
Shortly after Apple had theirtranslucent Macs you know, 64.
Shortly after apple had theirtranslucent max.
You know, the wii, obviously,and ds light, especially, were
heavily influenced by the appletech of that era.
Um, and yeah, it's.
And now, of course, this again.
I mean, it's not nearly to thesame extent, but I just think

(23:36):
it's funny that color wise theytend to follow apple's design
pretty closely at times yeah, itis.

And even if you look at it with the game
boys like the, you had to playit loud series back in the day
where you had all the differentcolors of the, the og game boy,
the game boy pocket.
Yeah, obviously, the atomicpurple for the, the game boy
color being that launch model ofthat color.
Yeah, I do too.
I mean, it'd be a dream if theybrought it back that whole

(24:04):
fantastic series of Nintendo64's.

I legit would actually like to get all of
those, just because it's so cool.
I'm not gonna lie, I mean notcooler than the Pikachu ones,
the orange and blue Pikachu ones.
But you know we don't get thatanymore.
Like we we get they've done thedifferent joy kind of colors.

(24:29):
So I guess you can mix andmatch the way that you want you
want to do.
But as far as like the actualconsole shell, I've seen plenty
of people that have modded their, their switches for those clear
shells.
They look beautiful.

Yeah, you know so that's actually what I'm
planning on doing.
I think I want to do thatmyself?

I think I think so too.
I've got got an extra umregular switch one that I can do
some stuff with, and I think Iwant to do that this.
I told you about the super oledscreen.
I ordered for the yes switchlight too, so I'm excited to see
that.

Yeah, that'll be cool.

I do like the accented colors.
You know the subtle.

Yeah, I like that too.

It's overall more sleek, a more streamlined
design from the original Switch,ideally more power, but oh yeah
, it's a new Mario game, okay sohere we are with Mario Kart.

One game, the one game that we get to see.
So, based on just this visualhere, if this is all you saw in
this image, what are your guys'thoughts?
Right there, first off, rightoff the bat.

I mean, the first thought I had was that
this looks like more of theMario Kart we've been playing
for 10 years.
What I said it looks like MarioKart 8 Deluxe.
Is this like a new boostercourse track?
Like what's going on?

Like right off the bat.
When I look at it it looksexactly the same.
But obviously I mean we canjust go and dive into the Mario
Kart now.
But right here, just where Istopped, there's a couple of
pointers.
Here We've got the littlethings in front of the carts
that are supposed to be likespikes or something.

(26:10):
Like a bumper or something yeah, I'm not sure.
And then you see an awful lotof racers there in the back,
more than usual, I think.

I think we're probably looking at what 24
maybe yeah, double 24 yeah,based on the start thing so is
this something that you'd expectthem to continue with the fire
cart 8 deluxe?
But fundamentally they want todo more than make the game
bigger and the base code justcouldn't handle what they wanted
to do.
So we're just going to make anew game.

(26:45):
It's going to have overall, youknow, larger tracks, larger
online, if that's like reallywhat they want to push with this
game.
Uh, that I would assume thatmakes sense probably going to be
70 at launch.
I guess the question is likehow much content we're going to
get because there's so manytracks in deluxe.
At this point it would be.
It would suck to go back to astandard 32 track layout and
have to continue to get more,more content that's why it kind

(27:08):
of feels like they're hittingthe reset button.

I say this is one who's going mostly off,
speculation off, but little wehave seen.
But it looks like, you know,we're getting bigger tracks here
which may have multipleconfigurations, if it's not
changing dynamically, you know,lap to lap or something, and so
what?
I'm thinking they're looking todo more with less, maybe where
there's like fewer, you know,fewer bespoke tracks, but each
one is a ton of variants and Ithink that's kind of how you can

(27:31):
get around that problem,because, yeah, there's no way
they're going to top 100 tracksfrom Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, so
maybe their way of doing so isto have, like you know, I
donations or whatever ends upbeing.

You know, and my guess too is that they're going
to support this for all of thelife cycle.
Obviously we're not going toget a another Mario Kart on the
switch.
That's that's never happenedbefore.
So my guess they're going tocontinue to support this and do
something similar to the thebooster pass.

But what's this evergreen Mario Kart.
This is day one evergreen mariokart right here oh, I think
you're right.

Yeah, I think it's gonna be a platform.

Um, I think it's gonna be a uh, yeah,
just an evergreen title now, asyou were saying which is great
because you can almost look atit as a live service model in
some ways, but totally in anintendo way, which is totally
opposite of what a live servicegame is in that sense, which is
good for us, the consumer.

(28:32):
But yeah, I would say, if theykeep it, the same kind of style
tracks.
As far as the length, I couldsee maybe going 48.
We have 96 right now.
Maybe we get 48 to start, butmaybe it is the standard 32.
But I would expect dlc is goingto be detailed out kind of from

(28:53):
the beginning, like a roadmap,so to speak, and I would also
expect that to start.
It's going to be pretty muchthe Mushroom Kingdom and the DLC
is going to be where it turnsinto.
It morphs a little bit.
It'll always be by name MarioKart, but I do believe it's

(29:13):
going to morph into NintendoKart, which is going to be fun.
Personally, I think that wouldbe a lot of fun.
We saw it with the DLC.
There's a ton of potentialthere and by doing that I think
it helps increase the visibilityand sales of these other
nintendo titles, because you got70 million people playing mario
kart and they're going througha f-zero cup or a xenoblade cup

(29:37):
for zelda.
People who don't know what thisis.
They're looking at it like ohwhat is this?
I should look it up.
Yeah, I'm interested.
Now I want to see the rest ofthis universe, so that would be
my guess and on top of that itjust it.

If you bring it in all the nintendo ips, just
the first party, it just givesyou a bigger variety of tracks
and different.
You know designs you couldbring into from I don't know you
have a metroid track to.
Obviously we've had some, somelittle bit of zelda stuff you
could have.
I don't know you have a Metroidtrack to.
Obviously we've had some littlebit of Zelda stuff you could
have.
I don't know.
I guess they've dealt withMario Gags.
It's a bad example.
But you know more.
A Donkey Kong-specific trackyou have whole.
You know four, five, eighttracks, a whole cup spaced off.

(30:15):
Different you know IPs allacross Nintendo and it just it
explodes the ability to have youknow maybe 80 tracks, 180, the
ability to have maybe 80 tracksstill 180, I'm just pulling
stuff out of my butt.

Yeah, why spend money on advertising when
you can literally advertisein-game?

It makes too much sense.
It's such a good marketingvehicle.
When a metric game comes out,you add Samus and her little
gunship cart, you know, andthat'd be a lot of fun.

As we know , that's a franchise.
That would really really benefitbecause we gotta yeah oh my god
, nintendo's gotta pull out allthe stops, as we know, as far as
their marketing team, to tryand catapult metroid into that
upper echelon of nintendo titlesbecause, as we know, uh,
critically acclaimed always, butwhen it comes to the, the

(31:05):
actual sales of it, it's alwaysfallen short.
Now, obviously, metroid dread,you know that did better, for
sure, but better as the rest ofthe titles go, yeah, we, we, uh,
we need to see nintendo pullout all the stops and this would
be a great way to do it I see alot of people saying on x and
obviously we've gotten a lot ofcomments about it it being like

(31:25):
an open world sort of concept.

So I would, when you say I'm like a dynamic
course, like that's kind of Iget the dynamic course part so
like a semi more open Mario.
Not it's.
I don't think it's going to belike a straight up open world
Mario car where you're going todrive location to location, a
location for for the singleplayer or whatever.
But I do see breaking up thecourse changes.

(31:51):
It's going to be like you'resaying, dynamic, it's going to
change.
One thing I was hoping was thisis a great chance for them to
bring all the gimmicks of thepast Mario Kart Double Dash with
the double karts, seven withthe gliders and stuff.
Mario kart double dash with thedouble carts, you know, seven
with like the hovercraft or theum, the gliders and and stuff
like I.
I feel like that would bereally cool to bring those back
in and make the stages moredifferent.

They can make them very, very different, very
distinct you know that's a goodpoint, right, depending how they
do this.
Like you could have routes thatare, you know, water-based when
there are other are otherroutes when there may not be any
water at all, or maybe you'reflying or something all in the
same track design.
You know.
Again, we don't know exactlyhow they're going to set this up
or deploy that, but it it'sexciting to think about.

(32:35):
Like the, you could have racesin the same area and feel
entirely differently yeah, well,yeah, I think it would be
really cool what I'm hoping foris to see weather mechanics for
each.

Yes oh, that's a great point.

I didn't think about that yeah, that would be
so cool yeah, you could havelike snow and rain, but I don't
know how, if they get, how wellthey could do it.
But like, if you're able to addnot only weather but it changes
like the traction, so it's likeit's snowy, you have less
traction, you start sliding alot more and stuff like that
Adds a whole level of dynamicsto the game.

Exactly Touched on that just a little
bit with the Animal Crossingstage from Mario Kart 8.
We had the four differentseasonal variants and they could
do something like that forevery track where there's, like
you know, rain or snow.
I think that'd be a lot of fun.

That would also put a lot more emphasis on
how you're building your cart.
Good point what kind of tiresyou're going to be using, right?
So it adds, I think, a lot tothe strategy.
Right, because if you'replaying in a cup, you've got to

(33:40):
make sure that, however you'rebuilding your cart is suitable
for all weather conditions,right?
Otherwise you might be introuble, like on one of these
tracks.

Yeah, yeah, and like right now, you're just
trying to build it just for maxspeed, and as long my traction's
not not terrible, I'll survive,although it is a little ironic
that we see, uh what rosalinausing what looks to be a
snowmobile in the desert.

Yeah, like what's she thinking, yeah, yeah,
absolutely hilarious, so we'regonna pause it here in just a
quick second too.

Nintendo.
I'm sorry, you failed All right, right here.

So obviously, something very big that stands
out is Donkey Kong.
Yeah, he's taken the movieappearance and, uh, I've seen a
lot of takes on this.
So what is everybody's take onthis?
As as to why?

ideally more skin variants for all the characters
I've heard.

I've heard that take I think this is the
the donkey kong movie you knowmodel I think it's from from
mario.
It's going to be used in afuture donkey kong movie.
I think they have massive andlet me say I'm very thankful
that they're finally doing this.
But I I think they have massiveplans for Donkey Kong, because
you've got to factor inUniversal with Super Nintendo

(35:01):
World.
I mean, donkey Kong got anexpansion before you put in the
Legend of Zelda.
You've got to have huge plansthat are connecting with the
movie, right?
Yeah, obviously the Mario movie, the sequel, is coming out
first, before the legend ofzelda movie, so that makes sense
as well.

(35:22):
But I I think there's a newdirection and I I want to hope,
I want to believe that thisfurther solidifies my belief and
hopefully your guys's, thatwe're finally gonna get a, a 3d
donkey kong game.
It Donkey Kong game.
It's been a long time since wegot a new one, a real new one?

I really hope so .
I've heard the take two thatthey're like okay, we're doing
away with the rare design ofDonkey Kong, which I can see.
I feel like this has a lot todo, just in the trailer alone,
with them wanting to promoteDonkey Kong Universal in the
movie, right like I think theyhave big plans to expand because

(36:07):
Donkey Kong has like such asort of vast universe there with
you know all the differentvarious characters that could be
very humorous, very funny, likeyou think of Cranky Kong and
you think of just all thesehilarious characters, right Like
the, especially that wouldappeal with kids.
But I do wonder it makes mewonder is could this be like a

(36:31):
skin choice thing or no, we'rejust doing away.
I mean, why just Donkey Kong?
That's's what I wonder.
I just don't understand thatpart.
Why, why just don't keep goingfor the movie design?

yeah, I mean they're, they're.
I think skins are a possibilityor maybe, more likely, costumes
.
I don't know if they'd havecompletely different character
models available.
I mean it'd be awesome if theydid.
Um, I don't think they will,though I think nintendo still
wants to have like hey, this islike our vision for how donkey
kong appears in this game.
Um, so to that point, I mean, Iactually really like this look.
I'm a big fan of the mario movieand, uh, and I thought that

(37:06):
movie finally brought together,like mario, donkey kong in a
cohesive way, which the gameshaven't really done, you like,
they've been largely separateentities since you know the
donkey, since the originalarcade game.
So what?
I think this, I if this isnecessarily a new direction for
the character, but maybe morejust a direction for how he
appears when he's in Mario'sworld, whereas if you play the
Donkey Kong games you'llcontinue to use the more classic

(37:27):
Rare look.
But I think it's cool that theyupdated him and did something
different, and in a game wherethat looks so much like Mario
Kart 8 Deluxe initially, I'mlike I will take it.
That looks definitely uniqueand different to me than it did
before.

So, yeah, definitely interesting to see
there.
There's a few other pointerstoo, obviously, as we come along
here.

I think 2025.
I feel like we already knewthat.

All right, so backwards compatibility
confirmed, but with an asteriskthat says certain Nintendo
Switch titles won't be supported.
Do we have any guesses?
I've got some guesses, I think,and I think it's really going
to be a very small amount of.

Nintendo.

Switch games.

Is it like the 1-2 Switch?
Maybe, because I don't know ifit has something like the IR.

It's like a handful of games that use
something like that.
Do you use HG Rumble?

We don't even know that it's similar to
the Switch Lite in that when theSwitch Lite came out, they had
to say, hey, it's not compatiblewith all Switch games.
Does it mean how are you goingto play something like Labo when
you can't detach the Joy-ConsRight?
I think this is very, veryminimal.
And again, you guys I'm suresaw it all over social media,

(38:52):
but a lot of people are deeplyconcerned and this is not
something to be truly notsomething to be concerned about.
It's going to be a very smallhandful of games, games that you
likely don't play.
And here's the thing if, if youreally want to play those games
, you love them that much.

(39:13):
It means that much to you keepyour switch, keep your switch.
Yeah, yeah, case closed, man,problem solved.
Yeah, I think it's going.
It means that much to you Keepyour Switch, keep your Switch.
Yeah, case closed, man.

Problem solved.
Yeah, I think it's going to be.
It's going to be like NintendoSwitch Sports.
Could that work?

It depends if original Joy-Cons are.
Oh actually, yeah, you knowwhat?
Actually, nintendo actuallyreleased an image that has very
similar to this, but instead ofa white backdrop, it actually
has pictures of games that areseemingly confirmed to work on,
switch to, and switch sports isamong them.
The only part, the only partthat I question is the, the
kicking soccer ball mode,because he used a leg leg strap

(39:52):
and I don't know if the newGeorge fit into that or not, so
that could be the one thing thatdoesn't maybe translate,
otherwise the game.

That's what I was thinking of.
And then obviously, somebodysaid here pretty much listed a
couple of things.
We thought Labo, once youswitch Spring Fit, I mean, it's
going to be games like that.
I'm sure that there's going tobe other ones, but I don't think
the list is going to be thatbig, so it's just going to be
one of those things.
Just keep Switch around.

Here's the thing, if you want to play
these games.
Keep Switch around and don'tsell it off, I think it still
works.
I think these games will work.
I think Nintendo has to bereally careful and specific with
their wording, because if youjust buy a Switch 2, these games
won't work.
But if you own a Switch and youconnect your Joy-Cons to the
Switch 2, I believe they willwork.

(40:37):
But you can't say that.
There's not enough room toexplain this scenario.

That's my hope .
Yeah, I'm hoping that it'll bebackwards and compatible with
the previous controllers andresolve most of these issues.
In that case, the only games Ithink that wouldn't work would
be Labo, because that wasdependent on the Switch's screen
size.
Yep, the cutouts Right.
But even in the worst case,even assuming you know the other
Joy-Con games don't work, itstill does a handful of games to

(41:04):
the point that I'm honestlyjust I just don't understand why
they just didn't say that.
Just tell us what those gamesare.
They're creating so much moredrama when there doesn't need to
be.
Most people aren't going togive a crap about not be able to
play Labo or Ring Fit, thoughthat game's great and 1-2-Switch
right.
They're creating more dramawhen there doesn't need to be.
I don't know why they didn'tsay it.

Do you think it's on purpose to keep the
conversation going?

I don't know who knows in Nintendo?
I don't think it is I thinkit's awesome to see this coming.

however, Look how long it took for them to say
something.
These we have been talkingabout, these rumors.
I went back it was somethinglike episode 80, some.
We were talking and no joke.
The second episode of thispodcast we were already talking
about.
We were talking switch pro.
So yeah, at that point in timeit was switch pro rumors, so we

(41:52):
were talking about that and wethought, you know for sure that
was going to happen and itdidn't, obviously, but it's, I
don't know.
Man, nintendo is interestingright now.
This whole thing is justinteresting with the, because we
got pretty much zeroinformation.
They showed the mouse thing,which was pretty cool Not

(42:15):
something we expected to see butwe just didn't get details.
We didn't get the details.
I will say, though this.

I love this.
I was.
I was so thankful that at theend of this video cause you know
I'm watching it and I could seehow much is left in the video
and, knowing the amount ofinformation, I got with the
information that I already know.
I'm like okay, so I got withthe information that I already
know.
I'm like okay, so I haven'tlearned anything new here.
But as it got to the end andthis page came up saying that

(42:43):
the direct is going to be onApril 2nd, right, I was like you
know, I really appreciate that.
No guesswork, we know whatwe're building up to now and you
know, the hope is that thethird parties, the indie devs,
can fill in that time up to thatdate with announcements, which

(43:04):
we already I already saw ahandful, yeah today yes yeah,
which is really cool.

That's cool to see.
I mean, we're going to see abunch.
I expect that we're going tocontinually see a bunch of games
that are going to be announced,because we saw it before, where
me and you talked about it,steve, on the Nintendbyte
podcast, but where they werejust showing the Nintendo logo.
They weren't showing a logo atthat point.

Yeah, yooka Replay yeah yeah.

So there's going to be a lot of that, but we
pretty much knew about a fewbefore.
If it said just Nintendo anddidn't have the Nintendo Switch
logo, it was that deal.
I'm truly excited to see whatindie devs do with the mouse
thing and just with the beefierhardware, because, like indie

(44:00):
games have really, they'vereally kind of taken over.
They've come a long way.
They've come a long way.
They really have Like theytruly have an impact in the
gaming sphere, now more thanever.
I mean, I just I got sent acode earlier about this one new
game.
That's just an 8-bit style game.
It's supposed to be like FinalFantasy and stuff and I was like

(44:22):
there's just so many of thesecool games like this.

Which one Is it?
8-bit Adventures?
Yeah, yeah, awesome, you playit.
Awesome game.
Yeah, there's part one and twoAwesome game You'll like it.

Yeah, I like it.
Okay, cool, okay, cool, yeah.
So I want to check that out onstream and stuff like that.
But yeah, I'm so excited, man,to see what kind of happens with
this.
But from this because we talkedabout in the past, obviously we

(44:54):
know about the DLSS and allthat stuff that's obviously
going to be a big deal A RAMupgrade from 4GB to 12GB,
storage from 32GB to 256GB.
One thing I've seen a lot ofcontention on is we've talked
about this probably a coupletimes in the past too, but the
switch from OLED to LCD we knewthat was going to happen.

Which of your guys' thoughts on that?
Lcd technology has come a longway since the original Switch.
If you look at your PlayStationPortal, are you happy with that
screen?
Are you satisfied?

I'm satisfied.

I think it looks great, right.
So again, that technology hascome a long way.
If you were to compare thePortal LCD screen to the
original Switch LCD screen, youcan see a huge improvement.
So again, zero concern.
And here's the thing, man.
You know the OLED's coming.
It'll come in a few years.
Probably Might be a little bitlonger, it might be three years,

(45:55):
four years depends.
But you know that's coming, ed,if it really really bothers you
that much, there's creativeways around that if you want to
learn.

Or you can just plug it into the dock and
play on your OLED TV or whatever.

Yeah, I mainly play on that, or like have you
guys seen that big I forget whatcompany, so I feel bad.
The company that made the biggiant screen for the Switch.

Oh, G something.

Mike's got one Mike Odyssey has one yeah, g
something G Story, g Story.
Yeah, yeah, G Story.
Yeah, because I've got theirSeries X portable screen there.
Yeah, something g story g story.
Yeah, yeah story.
Yeah, because I've got their uhseries x portable portable
screen there.
Um, yeah, you know, I think Idon't think it's going to be
that big of a deal, honestly.
Uh, personally, I just I don'tthink it's going to be that big

(46:51):
of a deal outside like yourhardcore gamers.

I mean, if you're thinking most like your core
audience, people that are goingto play on tv, or more of the
younger audience, it's worth thesaving the money for you know,
whatever the $50 you might save,put that into the actual
hardware.
Just your games play better.
Yeah, I agree, most people justaren't going to care.
I know, I don't care as much.

Yeah for sure.
And then I'm going to share Abigger yeah, yeah for sure.
And then I'm going to sharethis that's a bigger screen,
that's something to celebrate.

It's a much bigger screen.

Again, I'm looking at my.
You know the mock-up here andit's hard to tell in pictures,
but like when you have it infront of you, it's like that is
a substantially, that's anotably bigger screen.
It's, you will see, thatdifference.

Yeah, absolutely , yeah, absolutely.
So we've got the.
We got the announcement for thenintendo switch to experience,
which is based on, essentially,a lottery system on whether
you're going to get drawn.
Has anybody besides me tried toput in tickets for a location?

took like half an hour, but finally I got
through.
Yeah, I got through.
So where'd you guys submit?

uh, where are you trying to go?
Which one did you I?

obviously had to submit for new york, the
closest one I did, I did allthree it lets you do each
location.

Maybe I should do that all I can say is the, the
lottery system.
That's the most japanese thingever, and I I both love it, hate
it at the same time.

Yeah it doesn't.
Doesn't surprise me at all, Imean, and you only get to pick
one day in time yeah, I didn'tknow you could sign up for all
of them.

So I'm glad you mentioned that because,
like that was a prior to itgoing live.
That was one of the things Iwas thinking aboutre is, like
you know, I'm willing to go towhichever one, right?
Yeah, like I'm down, I'm downto go do this.
This is gonna be fun.
Uh, I don't know if you guysremember back in the day, the

(48:52):
nintendo cube club.
Did anyone go to that?

oh my god, was that there?
Like I never got the thingsthey had in different cities.
I went to that yeah yeah, Inever got to go.

No, as an, I went, okay.
So we went the first night.
We got tickets to it and youknow we ended up.
We were just chatting it upwith the staff, obviously trying
to get some like freebies aswell.
I was pretty young, when I wasin high school I think it was a
sophomore or junior and theyasked us if we wanted to come
back again the next day.
So they gave us tickets.

(49:23):
You know we drove downtown andjust hung out and you know we
were playing, uh, star wars, uh,was it?
Um rogue leader, nba, courtsidewave race, blue storm.
It was just so fun.
There was a bunch of games andwe ended up going I kid you not
the entire week.
They were there.
Wow, that's awesome.

(49:44):
Yeah, they gave us ticketsevery time and I actually have a
Nintendo GameCube Cube Clubpolo.
That's awesome.

Oh, that's so cool.

Yeah, and I still have it.

I remember that happening.
Unfortunately, they do not dothese events anywhere near me at
all.
Yeah, and I'm in Ohio, so I'm,you know who cares about Ohio,
right, but I definitely don'thave not had those opportunities
close Like they did.
The switch hands on experiencestuff Never got to do that.

(50:14):
I don't remember.
Did they do something for theWii U too?
I don't recall.
No, I don't.
I don't remember Did they do?

something for the Wii U too?
I don't recall.

No, I don't think they did.
I mean I know they didn't.
Here in Arizona and similar towhere you're living in Ohio, If
something comes here, it's likeyou have to go because you're
fortunate that they want to cometo your city, right?

Yeah, you've been blessed.

Yes, I don't know, mark.
If we both get lucky and getthrough on it, we might have to
plan a little two-day trip orsomething somewhere.
It'd be pretty cool.
Where would be the closestlocation for you?
Whatever is out west, I'll takewhatever I can get.
Yeah, I'm glad you mentionedthat you can do all three.

(51:00):
But yeah, it's cool thatthey're doing that hands-on
event.
I guess one of the things islet me see if it says it on here
.
I don't actually see where itsays the date that it ends.
I thought it was June.

I heard, I saw it actually, so I took a
screenshot on my phone and, uh,interestingly, like I wanted to
do some research on this for ourpodcast on Wednesday, and so
I'm glad you brought this upbecause I can go over these
dates when it ends.
Let me get this here.
Okay, so the last date is insouth korea.

(51:41):
Okay, 31st to june 1st, and soI don't know if you guys saw,
but everyone um on twitter waslike, well, since this is the
last day of the experience,right then, it can't come out
any earlier than that right butone thing I would like to
mention is that the switch 2will not come out in south korea

(52:08):
the same time it comes out inthe united states, uk, japan and
australia.
And I looked it up also, theswitch one didn't release in
South Korea until December 1st2017, so quite a, quite a long
ways later.
And then even get this.

(52:29):
So the Hong Kong date as wellas right around the South Korea.
It didn't release in Hong Konguntil December 2019.
Oh, wow, yeah, so this is not aworldwide launch.
It's going to launch in US, uk,japan and Australia at the same

(52:51):
time, but outside of that, theother markets are going to be
later.
So I to me, that does not 100signify that we can't get it
earlier than june 1st, or atleast right at that time.
You know what I mean because,yeah, that market has nothing to

(53:12):
do with the market that we'reliving in.
It's going to come out laterthere.
It's going to be a staggeredrelease.
Uh, ps.
Playstation did the same thing.
Ps5, you know it.
It.
It's very tough to scaleliterally worldwide, but if you
hit your major markets, that'sabout as good as you can get.

(53:32):
What do?

you guys think about that I personally don't
feel like that signifies hey,this doesn't come out until June
or after June I think it stillcould come out two months before
that and still do the eventsbecause it just feels like, hey,
it's another marketing push,People going out and seeing it
in person and having thatexperience.
I feel like the possibility isstill there that it comes out

(53:58):
before that, even likesemi-significantly before that.
You know, I don't know how muchearlier.
We've heard April, May and June.
I mean, those are kind of thethree, the windows there that
we're getting, but I just Idon't think that signifies, you
know, that we're not getting ituntil that certain time.
Personally, I don't know, MarkAndre, we're not getting it

(54:19):
until that certain time.
Personally, I don't know, MarkAndre, how do you guys feel
about that?

Yeah, I mean you actually brought up some
good information there on thewhole thing, because I was kind
of feeling like that likelywouldn't come out prior to that
final event, though this newinformation might conflict with
that a little bit.
In any case, though, I wasalready feeling like June seemed
like a good time for it in anycase, and I think more that,

(54:46):
whatever the final eventactually ends up being, I think
that more points to when theclosest possible release could
be, and I wasn't reallyexpecting it early May anyway.
Maybe they'll surprise me.
So I think more like I thinkit's actually regardless of what
the actual final date for, youknow, the relevant markets are
for the first release.
I'm thinking that thatindicates whatever that is like

(55:08):
it's going to come out shortlythereafter, within a few weeks.
So at this point I'm thinkinglike late June's the absolute
latest.
It will come out, but I don'tthink they want to hold off too
long after these.
You know any of these eventshave happened, um, or the final
set of the events or whatever,and yeah, but you know now I
guess maize and play again, youknow.
So maybe that just seems likethat just seems a little too
soon to me, but I'd be happy tobe wrong on that yeah, yeah, how

(55:31):
do you?

how do you feel about that?
Because you've brought up somepoints about having like a six
month window from theannouncement.

Is where he's kind of at yeah, I mean, I guess
june would fall that becauseit's technically january, it's
not a, not the traditionalannouncement.
They technically you could sayit was announced in in, uh,
january.
So I think a summer releasewindow probably makes sense.
You don't want to wait too longinto the fall, uh, not only
because you're competing withother games.
You get into the holiday season.

(55:57):
Obviously the big thingeverybody talks about is gta6,
but I I think the the windowthey're announcing this, yeah, I
think, uh, I think june wouldjune, july make sense
realistically.
But obviously we're gonna knowhere, you know, in like two and
a half months anyways, so we canspeculate for, for content
until then.
But I mean, yeah, by the timewe get our hands on with the

(56:18):
Switches we're going to knowwhen it's coming out.

It's interesting because I'm sorry.
Go ahead, Andre.

No, I'm sorry, I had nothing to say.

What I was going to say is what's interesting is
that Nintendo really hasscattered releases, because you
had the Wii U in November.
A lot of people thought it wasgoing to come out last year
before the holidays.
There's a lot of that we hadthat Didn't happen, and then,
you know, the Switch came out inMarch.
So I don't think they'renecessarily stuck on one date.

(56:49):
We're in a pattern of differentdates.
So I think that you know thatsignifies something there, that
you know the specific month doesnot matter to them and they
obviously want to be separatedfrom any other consoles that
might be coming out.
I mean even as much as reallyXbox isn't necessarily a
competitor with Nintendo.

(57:11):
We've heard new hardware.
We've heard that.
We've heard handheld.
So we heard that.
You know we've heard handheld.
So we just don't know whenthese things are coming out.
So them kind of, you know,scattering it out a little bit
before anything else might bedropping.
It's definitely something theywant to do.

Can I put on my conspiracy theorist hat for a
second?
They're putting out a bunch ofdates just to throw off the
leakers.
That's it.
That's how they're going tofind where the leak is coming
from.
They're putting out a bunch ofdates just to throw off the
leakers.
That's it.
That's how they're gonna findwhere the lead's coming from.
They're gonna put a bunch offake dates out there.
One of them is gonna be real andthey're just talking about that
too yeah, they're just tryingto throw everybody off the scent
and find the leaker probably ormaybe it would be smart yeah, I
can see him doing it too I dothink it's better to get it out

(57:55):
earlier.

Uh, just just so you can have two kind of
huge launches in the same year.
Right, you have the launch andthen you have the holiday both
in the same year, and you wantto have that spread out enough,
right, because once you startselling them, say hypothetically
in june, uh, who's going to behelping to sell nintendo

(58:17):
consoles?
Us, the early adopters, right,everyone who's always going to
be buying these?
On day one, we advertise prettymuch all the way up until the
holidays for for everyone.
And then you have anotherbuying cycle.
Uh, obviously that wentextremely well for switch one.

(58:38):
So that is my hope that Junewould be the latest, and I feel
pretty confident that June isthe latest.
And even then you think aboutschools out beginning of June.
It is a good time.
The GBA launched in June.
That seemed to work out reallywell.
I remember I got the GBA intime for summer school and that

(59:00):
was a blotch it probably helpedwith that summer school.
I imagine.

I got it launched, so that must have been
the same thing that happened.
I didn't have summer school.
Actually, that's a lie.
I just don't remember what year.
There it is.
I did have it, but I forgetwhat year.

I guess the other question is I I think what you
were saying makes sense releaseit in june, uh, so you get your
your first adopters, yourhardcore fans, people that want
to get it first.
It allows you to have that lullin sales so you have the
production ramp up and then youcan prepare for your second wave
in the holiday season whereyour general consumer, your
family, would be looking toprobably buy this.

Buy it at least with the first wave yeah,
you're almost wasting thatlaunch momentum if you launch it
during the holidays.
Yeah, regardless.

Yeah, you're just kind of missing as well, as
you're trying to avoid.

You know supply issues as well, so you
want to try to spread that outas much as you can in the first
year yeah, and people want toknow if it's good like they want
to be sold on it.
I mean, I'm sure you guys know,and you've probably played this
role within your, your friendsand family group, but when it
comes to video games, who doeseverybody call right?
yep, you know, they always callyeah, they call us right to ask

(01:00:08):
about it.
Should we, should we get aswitch to or should we get this?
Uh, so people are going to belooking to always us, the early
adopters, for that and uh it, itjust makes sense, cause you can
only pump out so many If youwere to launch around the
holiday.

Brandon Hurles (01:00:29):
Yeah, right, yeah, yeah.
I mean I think this is on track, so I guess I'll get them pull
up real quick.
This cause it's just absolutelyinsane to see you kind of see
these numbers We've got here.
So currently for the switch to,we were at Almost 17 million

(01:00:53):
views in one day, number onetrending for gaming.
That's crazy.

ThunderStache Gaming (01:01:00):
Yeah, I don't know if you saw some of
the numbers, but they, they werecrunching.
Someone was crunching numberson twitter with the switch one
reveal trailer no, no, it wasjust about switch two and they
were just, uh, taking thenumbers from different regions
and kind of adding it all up.
Okay, the reach that this hashad, I mean, it was well over

(01:01:25):
100 million within eight hoursbetween all different
territories and differentnetworks.
Yeah, so they did a really goodjob dropping it like this.

Andre GameXplain (01:01:42):
Huge Yeahintendo's got massive
momentum on their side right now, which is something they
haven't had in quite some time.
I mean it's funny because thisis one of the longest times
they've waited to launch asuccessor and one of the issues
they've run into before is theywaited too long, like with the
way you transition, and now itseemed like they didn't wait too
long, or perhaps it's more thatthey were able to maintain that
momentum for as long as theyhave.
And people are now.

(01:02:02):
You know they're hungry andexcited for for a successor,
clearly, and that shallow droppaid off for them.
I mean it was funny.
Just, you know, a little over aday ago people like nintendo
would never shallow drop thisthing.
Why would they do that?
you know they've never done thatbefore and here they are doing
exactly that.
So yeah, nintendo can never befully predicted.
They gotta keep you on yourtoes.

And even even interestingly, since you
know, furukawa came in, becamepresident, uh, the switch light
and the switch oled were bothshadow dropped too.
I mean, I know they're not,they're not new consoles, but
both of those were shadowdropped.
So maybe, maybe that is a thinggoing forward.

But then again , at the end of the trailer,
then we got the day for thedirect, so it's like who knows,
man, yeah well, especially Imean to that point too, with the
switch to being the first namedyour numbered successor for
nintendo, they might just belooking at it differently.
Like this is part of this newline where they shadow dropped
every form of it except for theoriginal Right.

(01:02:59):
Maybe they are just kind oflooking at it as an extension of
the current Switch line andmaybe that's.
You know, the way they handlethat project is just different
than they have with consolelaunches in the past.

Yeah, how long do you guys think they?
Because they obviously want toreach that top Nintendo or
console sales.
Obviously they want to do that.
How long after the Switch 2comes out?
Do you think that Switch willstill be sold?
Because I'm thinking a good twoto three years personally.

Three years at least.
Yeah, Yep Gotta agree with that.

Just to reach that number.
Drop the price down on theconsole.
Drop it down on the Switch Liteespecially, which I think is
going to be a big seller.

Mark Trobough (01:03:37):
If they drop that down, you know they should do
that, drop it down on the SwitchLite especially, which I think
is going to be a big seller.
If they drop that down, I agreethey should do that the same
day they announce this or itcomes out Clearance on the
Switch.
You get your sales and you canstart clearing out your
inventory.

Do you guys remember 2DS XL?
They were $99 at Walmart therefor a minute.
I wish I would have grabbedlike seven of them.

I was talking about this actually on
the podcast on Wednesday, but Ido expect price drop to coincide
with the Switch 2 launch.
When it's going to happen youknow, I don't know, it's up to
Nintendo, but it's going to bein or around that time and I do
expect Switch Lite to go down to99.
That's what I think it's goingto be a stocking stuffer,

(01:04:20):
literally, because you will beable to fit it in a fat stocking
.
It's going to be perfect, man.

I mean I'll buy a couple of them at $100.

Just have a couple of color variants and
just say I have them, just likewhen the GameCube went on sale
for $99 and then $49.
For a brief moment.

Yep, that's how I got my GameCube.
I ended up getting a secondGameCube, 99 bucks platinum.
I was pretty happy.
I mean that was awesome.
But yeah, I wish I would havegrabbed some more of those 2DS
XLs and the 3DS XLs because Ithink they kept.

(01:04:57):
I could be wrong andmisremembering, but I think they
kept.
I could be wrong andmisremembering, but I think they
kept the new 3DS XLs at 150 andI could do you guys remember?

I think so, because when I got my two 3DS
XLs, it would have been aroundwhat 21, 22, and they were about
150 a piece.
Yeah, so I got my 3DS on launchday when it was 250, 21, 22,
and they were about 150 a piece.

Yeah, so you're taking.
Yeah, yeah, I got my 3ds onlaunch day when it was two 50.

And then I got my my ambassador certificate and
my my 20 games.
They dropped the price way down.

Yeah, I couldn't believe that.
Like it was a hundred dollarscut right, yeah, and I didn't
mind, I'm like you know,whatever I I guess that's part
of being an early adopter, butthe fact that they were like,
hey, you know what, we're sorry,we want to give you 20 games,
what?
This is unheard of.

I think you didn't learn from that
experience, though, which is,you know, good one thing I
wanted to mention.
I don't know much about them,so I'm not I don't have a lot of
input personally, but Nintendostocks did rise up significantly
yesterday, yeah, and theystayed up until about 4 pm it
looks like yesterday and thenthey dropped way down and

(01:06:09):
they're down today like therewas a massive drop off.
I does that signify anything atall to you guys?
I don't.
I don't know anything about.
I'm pulling up here on Googlethe Nintendo ADR.

That's just people riding the hype train to
make some money and then they'reselling off while the stock's
high.
I wouldn't look too much intoit that went to my 4 pm.
It's not, I mean, at this grandscale.
If you look at the pie, it'sstill up in the past five days.
It's just there's always a fora lot of stocks for a lot of
companies.
You always see a stock go upbefore there's like a quarterly

(01:06:41):
or something like that.
A lot of people will ride thehype as not as like a pump and
dump, but very similar, asthey're trying to make a quick
buck.

Yeah, I don't.

Microsoft is up 1.05%.
Sony is down 1.79 percent.
Yeah, I don't.
I don't put a lot of stock init, but for, like, I really
don't.

Uh, you know it, it's gonna, it's gonna
change a little bit, it's gonnago up and down up until the
investor meeting and ultimatelyI I think it probably went down
because there wasn't a lot shown.

Yeah, yeah, it really was just an affirmation
of what had been rumored, sonothing too surprising.
Mario Kart was the biggestsurprise there, which you know
is cool and great, but you know,especially for someone just
looking at it for a few seconds,it's like it's just Mario Kart
again.
There's nothing majorly newgoing on here.

Yeah, you have to think about like stocks and the
health of a company.
While they matter, they're notalways a one-for-one and a lot
of stock trading is morespeculation than anything else
and stuff like that.
So a lot of people that aregoing to be in it for the long
term are going to be fine withit.
The day-to-day or theweek-to-week up and downs.
I wouldn't think too much likea, you know, like a 30, 40

(01:07:57):
percent, like something likethat's like five percent.

that happens yeah, and I would expect
it to go up again on april 2ndyeah, yeah, that makes sense.

Um, all right, so what?
What are we thinking on theprice point?
Because we're seeing the pricepoint like it's either.
The contention is kind ofbetween 350 or 400 is basically
what I'm saying and that I kindof thought the 400 is what I
thought before they even saidany of this is that was my

(01:08:29):
thought all along, because thedlss and new technology is put
into this console, I think itdoesn't.
You know, it requires a littlebit more than the switch had, uh
, but you know I'm kind ofcurious on your guys thoughts.
Is the price point for this?

400 minimum.
I think.
Honestly, I think 400 is thefloor for this, with impossibly
going to, you know, 450.
I don't think they'll go 500,but nintendo's operating from a
position of strength right now.
They know there is demand forthis and they could, you know,
arguably overprice it and itwould still probably sell just
fine, and if it doesn't they can, then they can lower the price.
Um, so I would be shocked if itcomes in anything less than 400

(01:09:07):
yeah, I.

I just I can't personally see the 350.
I don't know what do you think,mark?

I mean because I pulled up to verify yeah, the
the switch launched at three,the oled 350.
I think a four to 450 kind ofmakes sense for the, for the
hardware plus kind of what, uh,what you just said.
Uh, andre, you could launch itfor the early adopters who are
going to buy it at a higherprice point and then, based off
of feedback, you can either lowit or you can do a temporary
it's holidays so we can put iton sale some more more

(01:09:36):
reasonable and stuff like that.
But I think probably, yeah, 4450 makes a lot of sense to me
I'm expecting 400.

if there's two skews, I could see 349 to
400 or, yeah, 399 to 449.
I think it could sway in anydirection.
I think it would probably bebetter if they just have one SKU
, for simplicity's sake.
Yeah, we don't want to confuseany of the consumers.
We've seen how that's wentbefore.

(01:10:06):
I think $399 sounds like theright number, though and I have
for a long time, so we'll seewhat happens.

We could do a founder's edition, like NVID
nvidia, you know possibly.

I guess you gotta think you're selling a lot of
this is.
You're as much as you know alot of the hardcore gamers
aren't?
We're not kids anymore.
We grew up I know at least Iknow me and brandon grew up with
, you know, nintendo consoles,and that's still the.
The family market's whatthey're aiming for.
So you don't want like a 800ps5 or pro or something like
that.
They don something like that.
That's like their main target.
You've got to think the familymarket.
So it still needs to bereasonably affordable.

Yeah, and one thing I think right now they are
, I feel like, competingobviously with the current
handheld market, which is, dareI say, maybe bigger right now
than it's hard to say becausethe Game Boy is absolutely
massive.
It's really bigger right nowthan it's hard to say because
the Game Boy is absolutelymassive.
It's really big right now witha bunch of companies right.

(01:11:04):
So we look at the high end ofthe Asus ROG Ally X at like $800
.
And you look at the LenovoLegion Go, I think is like $650,
something like that.
But you've got Steam Deck andthen Steam Deck OLED.
They are competing, I feel like,with the handheld market.
That's where I do feel likethere is competition.

(01:11:25):
To what extent I can'tpersonally say, because if it's
$400, you're not going to take a$200 loss on there.
Nintendo doesn't take losses ontheir consoles.
They don't like to.
So you know they don't like to.
So I don't know.
That's the one thing in theback of my head is like well,

(01:11:45):
how competitive could this be tothe current handheld market?
We obviously know they're doingAce's Royal Galley 2.
The X's just did a stronger,better version of the current
one that's out.
We know that these are coming.
We know the Steam Deck 2 iscoming.
How competitive will this bewith the handheld market?

Do they need to be competitive though?
Because you look at first-partygames.
They've never gone after thishigh-fidelity, realistic
graphics.
It's always that stylized thatdoesn't necessarily need the
hardware, but they've gotsomewhat of a beef up,
especially when you look at theuh, whatever their form of dls
is going to be, you got aicoming along for the upscaling,
and then, even if it's like aps4 equivalent in power for

(01:12:29):
third parties that want to, youknow, port over or make games
for this, it's not animpossibility to to deal with
that power it.

It's not, and I think that, yeah, I talked
about this on the podcast.
Actually, a lot too is that,you know.
I kind of implore everyone to,if you don't know about DLSS, do
a little bit of research.
Go on YouTube.
There's a lot of great videosout there that will literally,

(01:12:59):
you know, give you a splitscreen view of a game running
without DLSS, and then they'llsay this is what DLSS is on, and
they will have a resolution,digital foundry is great for
this.
Yeah, and they'll have a FPScounter and they'll show you
what happens when you turn it onand it's magic, yeah, right,

(01:13:21):
and we even you've seen with the, the 5000 series, it's just
magic what it's doing now.
So, uh, I know a lot of peopleare concerned about the, the
power right of it being betweenwhat, a ps4 pro and a series s,
but it's like, guys, this iswithout dlss factored in, and

(01:13:44):
once you really study how thisworks, I think your confidence
level will go up considerablyand then you won't have any
concerns yeah, I've been sayingit for a long time, the dlss is
a bigger deal than people thinkit really truly is.

You know, I've used 3.5, I've got a 4090
currently.
I've seen what it does turnedon, turned off.
I've I've seen the difference.
It's it's like night and day.
It's insane.
Um, it's, it's a big deal.
But I mean, I guess one of theone of the reasons really kind
of to bring that up is thesewere some of the rumored
third-party releases for theSwitch 2.

(01:14:21):
Final Fantasy VII Remake andRebirth which Rebirth would be?

insane.
I mean 100%.
It was just Steam Deck verifiedyesterday, okay.

All right, so Assassin's Creed, mirage and
Shadows Shadows being a brandnew game, yeah, still, yeah,
yeah.

Still, yeah, yeah, if you're asking me,
yes, 100%, okay.

Metal Gear Solid Delta, which is an upcoming
game.

No, I was going to make it mean but what's going
to come out for Shadows or theSwitch 2?

That's a great point.
It is a good point.
Yeah, a lot of factors there.

Halo, the Master Chief Collection, not worried
about that at all.
Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020.
You think it's coming right?
Do I think it's coming?
Yeah, Okay, I just want to makesure.

It'd be crazy.
I'm expecting it.

I am so sure that I would.
I don't.
I'm not a betting person, but Iwould bet that it is coming
With what Xbox is doing.
I have a very, very strongfeeling that this will be coming
out, probably pretty early, forthe Switch 2 as well.

I expect Microsoft to be the biggest
third party developer for Switch2.
And you really got to look atit in that you got to look at
all the companies they own nowtoo.
Yeah, oh yeah, I think peoplejust think about it and
conceptualize.
Got to look at in that you gotto look at all the companies
they own now too.
Yeah, oh yeah, I think peoplejust think about and
conceptualize oh yeah, you know,I know they bought a bunch of
studios, but it's like, but no,really pull it up online and
look at all the ip and reallytake a close look and it is.

(01:15:50):
It's wild when you factor allthat in, so it would be very
simple for them to be the mostsuccessful third-party developer
on the Switch.

All I'm hearing is we're going to be
seeing a new Banjo-Kazooie onSwitch 2 at some point.

I actually do believe this.

I believe that.

I truly do , and I've talked about it a lot
on the podcast.
There's no reason we don't seethat we had Banjo-Kazooie in
Smash.
Microsoft adores Nintendo.
There's a lot of respect there,yeah there is.

You saw that with ori and the different games
that came, minecraft obviouslyon everything um.

You know so they had various games and
that's just.
That's another game toominecraft with the mouse.

Yeah yeah, that's a great point.
Easy, that's a great point,easy, that's a great point
Excellent.

And then I get this last one.

Red Dead.

Redemption 2.
Oh, sorry, which I think iscoming.
Sorry, mark, go ahead.

No, no, I mean that would be insane, because I
guess I had two points.
One go back to like 2006 andtell yourself there's a chance
that Halo might be on a Nintendoconsole, and your brain would
explode.

I really would.
That's a great point.
Thank you, Matt.
Never would have thought that.

I think this is a great possibility, because Get
Rare just stopped working ononly Sea of Thieves and they
have so many great IPs that wereback on the mixture of the
GameCube, but especially on theN64, and having them start
working on new games of allthose IPs they used to work on,
those games feel at home, orthose ips feel at home on a
nintendo console, to me like Iwant to see all their games come
back like it's changed a lot.

The staff's changed a lot, it's.
I think it really changed whenthe stamper brothers left, uh,
but over the years.
I mean they're just working onback-end.

Yeah, yeah, I guess at least to that point,
just let let someone work on thegames right Like someone else,
use their RP.
They're kind of doing that alittle bit dark and killer
instinct.

Before Just give the IPS at least a second shot
at life, whether good or bad.
Give them, give them a chanceto breathe, yeah.

I'll take a bad banjoazooie at this point.

I don't care.
We already had one.
We had Nuts and Bolts.

Andre, did you like Nuts and Bolts?

I actually did .
Once it got past the first sixhours, which is a lot, I fell in
love with that game.

Yeah, I wasn't a big fan.
I was pretty disappointed.
I remember playing it.
I was just really let downright from the get, the get go.

But your typical banjo, that's for sure
it definitely wasn't.

It was interesting.
It was kind of like, um, someof the mechanics though that
they use with that.
It's kind of interesting to seeyou know how that was kind of
expanded upon later with othergames yeah, I feel like it was
ahead of its time.

You know like had it come out after Minecraft.
Am I done better?

yeah, for sure, yeah for sure.
I think so too, then we've got,so, I guess, one of the other
point for Red Dead, by the way.

Yeah, I just want to say that I I'm
gonna give you a littleprediction.
I think Red Dead will be 60 FPSon switch to.
You think so?
Yeah, I do, and I've.
I think I've said this formaybe about a year.
I think it's going to come outon switch to.
It'll be 60 fps and I thinkthere is going to be a native

(01:19:10):
ps5 version released at the sametime.
That will be 60 frames persecond.
That's why Red Dead has notreceived a PS5 performance patch
.

I can see that.
I mean that makes total sense,it's on.

PS4.
It's a PS4 game, I mean.

Yeah, good point.

With the DLSS, it would not be hard to
have that running at 60, whichis great, because that's
something to look forward to.
That's an excellent game.

Yeah, absolutely .
I would love to see the.
I'm trying to think of whatelse would, because we've heard
Square Enix say that they wantto bring their properties to
everything.
Essentially is what they saidYep, so I see Final Fantasy XIV
coming over to Switch 2.
I see, I don't know what else.

Visions of .
Mana, legends of Mana.
I see that no.
Visions of Mana.
Visions, yeah, the new one.
Yeah, of course, kingdom Hearts.
I foresee Kingdom Hearts nativereleases, not the cloud
versions.
Nobody wants those Nativeversions.
On the Switch 2 hardware, Iexpect to get a HD collection

(01:20:24):
and I expect to get KingdomHearts 3 and 4.

Yeah, and again, like that only makes sense to
me.

Anything that's running on Series S I
expect to come over.
You know, like Indiana Jones,expect it, and that's an
expensive IP.

Yeah, that's a powerhouse of a game.

It's an excellent game.
I'm almost done with it forreview.
But nobody's buying it on Xbox.
The people who are playing itare playing it through Game Pass
and Game Pass is stagnant.
It's stuck at 34 million.
They're not making money onGame Pass.
They need to have 100 millionsubscribers to make money.
It ain't going to get there, soyou know they're going to have

(01:21:06):
to figure that out.
But obviously that's coming toPS5 in the spring and I fully
expect it to come to Switch 2.
I'm playing it on my Series S.
It runs great.
Yeah, no problem.
And you got to get that ipeverywhere it's.
It's it's indiana jones, andyou got to make that money back
because it's not cheap.
Yeah, to uh rent out that ip nodoubt, no doubt.

Yeah, I'm playing it on a game pass your
pc.
Do you guys remember the rumorsa while back I don't even
remember how long ago about GamePass coming to Switch 1.
Do you guys remember that?

I do.

What's the possibility of it coming to
Switch 2?

Zero.
I don't think Nintendo willallow it.
I think Microsoft would lovefor it to be At this point.
I don't think Nintendo wouldwant it on it.
It would just compete with themfor no reason.

That brings up an interesting point.
That's a tough one.

It's no reason.
Yeah, that brings up aninteresting point.
That's a.
That's a tough one.
Yeah, you know it's interestingto think about, but I just
don't.
Here's how I look at it.
It's like if, say, nintendosays no, but they ask sony, and
sony says yes, and then sonycomes out with a portable right,
right, which you know that's.
It could change things yeah, itcould change things, and so I

(01:22:20):
think you have to look at itfrom that angle a little bit.
If you're Nintendo, like well,if we say no, and then you know
somebody else steps in and nowit's on a different portable
device, game Pass, and now we'rebehind the eight ball right.
But if that's not a factor,then I don't think it comes to

(01:22:44):
the Switch too, and I thinkMicrosoft just releases their
games physically over here,which is great.
I think it's going to do verywell.

Yeah, yeah.
I mean I think the only wayyou'd see the Game Pass on the
Switch would be Nintendo takinga very significant percentage of
Game Passes on the Switch tothe point where Microsoft would
say no.
We take all your revenue andthen we'll allow it, yeah, at
least a 50-50 split, to makesure it's going to be worth our

(01:23:17):
while.

So this is something me and Mark have
talked about a lot, but what dowe think?
So for a couple of games?
Obviously we know about MetroidPrime 4.
We know about Pokemon Legends,za.
What are we thinking aboutlaunch titles?
And then, what are we thinkingabout those two games,
specifically, pokemon Legendsand Metroid Prime 4?

As far as cross-gen, yeah, cross-gen,
that's a big question.

Yeah, I mean, are they going to be cross-gen,
are they not going to becross-gen, or huh, yeah, I mean,
are they going to be cross-gen,are they not going to be
cross-gen, or you know I don'tknow.

Are they going to come?
Are they going to play betteron switch two?

yeah right is it going to be one of those deals
like for launch I'm not evenentirely sure like they showed
off mario kart 9, but usually Imean, I feel like we've had such
a big, long gap from a big 3dmario game, super mario odyssey,
like I feel like that's got tobe probably I feel like I expect

(01:24:13):
mario kart at launch 100 aswell, yeah, they showed off, I
think for a reason.

Yeah, I do too yeah, I think they may try to
mimic you know, not directlybecause they've already deviated
in some ways, but they're kindof largely sticking to the.
What worked for the Switch, Ithink, and what worked then was
having Mario Kart early on andthen having a 3D Mario for the
holiday season, acting for thatsecond launch that we were
talking about earlier, exactly.

So, a big title for that second round of sales
pretty much.

Exactly, which I think could open up a huge
opportunity here.
If metro prime 4 doesn't end upbeing cross-gen, I think they
could try to pull off what itdid with breath of the wild,
where you know that is the gamethat, even if they promote that
in upcoming the rumored upcomingfebruary direct for switch one
and that also ends up being aswitch to title, that all that
hype for that game by itself can, you know, help it on switch to

(01:25:05):
and act as marketing for theSwitch 2 itself, which they
probably don't even need.
But the point more is it canreally benefit Metroid Because
for as successful as Zelda wasbefore Breath of the Wild,
breath of the Wild went to thestratosphere compared to the
previous game's sales and thismight be Metroid's best chance
of finally breaking through that.
What 3 million sales barrier.
I think, by having this be yourbig single player focused uh, ip

(01:25:26):
at launch alongside Mario car.
They'll cater to literallyeveryone else.
Um, I'm I.
I think it just makes sense andI would almost be a little
surprised if it's not.
But you know, you never know.

That is such a great point.
I did not think about the partwhere veteran prime four jumps
up in sales because it is wealready.
I mean, prime 4 jumps up insales because it is.
Look at the numbers.
Just for the trailer, we knowit's going to sell like crazy.
I feel like they're probablynot.
I don't even know if they'regoing to be able to have enough
stock out for the Switch 2.

(01:25:57):
I feel like they're trying.
I feel like they probably aretrying their best, but I feel
like for a minute there it'sgoing to be like the PS5 Series
X situation that we saw in 2020,maybe for a moment.

Proposed numbers look good.
You know, over 20 million.
Yeah, that looks good.
That's what the proposednumbers are to have prepared for
the launch for the first year.
Yeah, that came out ofBloomberg, I think a day or two
ago, and that's a lot.

I mean, people love Nintendo.
I was looking and just theAlarmo trailer has 2 million
views.

God yeah, Nintendo's done a much better
job at increasing theirawareness to everyone in recent
years.
Yeah Well, speaking of that,that larger launch amount,
potentially that's even morereason, I think, to have Metroid
there.
People are going to want gamesto play on their new hardware
and they're going to be moreopen to new, to newer
experiences.
Metro is not new, but it willbe for a lot of people, just

(01:26:52):
considering how small thatfranchise is to others.
And the metro prime 4, like youknow, is, for one, a good game
and two is a good showcase forthe switch too.
Yeah, it might be his best shotdo you guys think it's
cross-gen?

I question right there that's the question.

I.
But they have to be reallybecause it restarted development
.
You have to consider that itrestarted development.
But I looked at the.
I looked at the timetablebecause I was curious about the
dlss and what was being used onthat for metroid prime.
They're a few months apart.
Metroid prime 4 started itsdevelopment a few months before

(01:27:28):
dlss even came out.
Um, so that's one thing to takeinto consideration.
So I I was like, oh, they'rejust going to maybe do just drop
this on the switch one and thenuse dlss to make it look better
on the switch too.
Uh, but they did start, whichwould be a good way to sell.

Switch to actually what it does yeah, but
it's also the other side of.
I think the game itself wouldbenefit from and I'm biased
because I'm a huge, huge metroidfan but the game would benefit
from only being on the switch to, with not having to worry about
old hardware, because I dothink you, with a game that you
want to not only showcase, but agame that could definitely
benefit from it, woulddefinitely be held back by old

(01:28:07):
gen hardware that's like adecade old at this point.

Well, it's like the conversation with PS4 and
PS4 games still coming out rightLike.
I don't personally like that,because it's like I want this
made for the native hardwarethat we are currently at in this
current generation.
We're already halfway through.
We're still getting the PS4games, meaning those PS5 games
are actually just PS4 games,essentially upscaled, and can

(01:28:33):
run a little better.

The problem with that is would you want to play
it in a subpar way or only playit on hardware that could
actually do it justice with agame like that?
It's a hard balancing act, Ithink for Metroid.

knowing the history of metroid prime and
that the sales history and thestruggles, if you're gonna have
a game be cross-gen, I think youhave to do it with metroid
prime 4 because you have to takeadvantage of that 150 million
install base, whatever it'sgoing to be at by the time it
launches.

(01:29:09):
I really think you have to tapinto that.
But I also expect the marketingand promotions team to pull out
all the stops.
For instance, there's the rumorat February Direct, which I
believe is happening.
I believe Metroid Prime 2 and 3will be coming out prior to
Metroid Prime 4 in the lead upand if you're a Switch owner,

(01:29:33):
you're going to want to be ableto play Metroid Prime 1 through
4 on your Switch.
You don't want to feel like youhave to upgrade.

Obviously, these people got to have access to
these games.

Yeah, but if you take advantage of that
150 million whatever it's goingto be at the time, and it's a
launch title on switch to andit's running performing better
on switch to that gives you thebest possible opportunity to
finally break out and dosomething special and go up into

(01:30:04):
that upper echelon.
So that would be my guess.
If we're gonna have a cross-gengame, it's got to be that.
But I I think you gotta bereally careful after that, you
know, because yeah, if you startdoing cross-gen with too many
games, it can be uh, veryslippery slope yeah, I mean
because then you got the animalcrossing community.

(01:30:27):
Yeah, why can't?
Why can't you release this onswitch one?
It's it's not a graphicallydemanding game yeah, exactly,
yeah but that's how they'll lookat it, right, not factoring in
anything else.
They'll just be like, well, thegraphics aren't great, can't
this run on?
Switch you just I.
I think you just want to bereal careful and just kind of do
things the way you had withZelda, obviously being a

(01:30:48):
cross-gen game multiple times.

Go that route, what do you think, andre I mean
, yeah, you're not wrong.
I mean people are going to havethose complaints.
I think almost no matter what.
But especially if there's morecross-gen I mean myself I think
it makes sense for Nintendo tocontinue to support the Switch
for longer than they typicallydo.
That's a massive install base.
Even if everyone tries to getthe Switch 2 right away, they're

(01:31:13):
not going to be able to.
That's not going to happen.
Some people just bought theSwitch in the last year.
A good amount of people stillare buying the Switch.
They're not going to upgrade theSwitch 2 for years to come.
I don't think it makes sense tocompletely turn your back on
that market to come.
And I don't think it makessense to completely turn your
back on that market.
So I think cross gen in someinstances will continue to make
sense, like the new mart, likemarty party jamboree that game
looks completely fine.
I don't need to look any betteron switch too.

(01:31:34):
So whenever next marty partycomes out, I'm fine, that's
cross gen.
You know, when it comes to yourbiggest, you know your biggest
games, like your triple a titles, like the 3d mario or the new
zelda, then those probablyshould be the ones are, you know
, locked to uh, switch to um.
But I think there's plenty ofinstances, especially for
nintendo, where they can releasegames.
Cross-gen give enough benefitson switch to.

(01:31:55):
That is still clearly betterwithout compromising their
original market.
But you know, I don't know whatto extend.

Nintendo will actually do this or not to me me
when I think about this.
I think actually that PokemonLegends EA is a bigger
discussion on it, because thatgame sold great and people loved
it, but it for sure.
And then you look at Scarletand Violet that's a whole other
story, but it for sure still hadissues.

(01:32:22):
It had some problems.
It had a lot of pop-ins, a lotof stutters.
It was not a lot of pop-ins, alot, a lot of stutters.
It was not a perfect game.
It was a good.
It was a very good game that Iabsolutely loved, but it had a
lot of problems.
And so I wonder if PokemonLegends EA is exclusive to the
Switch too, because it isPokemon they want to sell the
Switch.
I just feel like there would bea huge downgrade there.

(01:32:47):
They're not going to be able tomake this look that it's not
going to perform better reallythan Legends Arceus.

I wouldn't think on Switch 1, unless the.
I think the other issue isthey're just poorly optimized
games.
They didn't put a lot of effortinto it.

Yeah, I think Game Freak will find a way to
have a run poorly on Switch 2even.

Yeah, it just felt like the game was designed
from the ground up poorly.

As like a big Pokemon fan.
I hate that I, if I'm being,you know, kind of greedy here,
and obviously we have toconsider everybody.
We have to consider all theaudience.
I personally would want to seeeverything only on Switch 2 and
that it's developed for thathardware.
But that's just being ahardcore gamer, a hardcore
Nintendo fan that's planning onbuying this day one and that's.

(01:33:33):
You know, that's that.
It's like what Sony has doneway too long with the PS4 stuff,
like way too long.
So many of these games havebeen developed for the PS4 and
then brought over to the PS5 andit's like are you kidding me?
We're this long in the lifecycle and it's still going on.

Yeah, yeah, no , I get that we're all going to
buy the new Switch too, right?
So we all, you know, we want thegames to look as good as
possible.
But you know, in this specificcase especially, I don't think I
think Pokemon, maybe with anexception, they're usually not

(01:34:12):
too quick to the new generationslike they usually hold on.
They are yeah, and I think,with this game in particular
being announced for you knowalready for switch one, um, I
expect they will, you know,continue to stay on there
primarily.
I maybe there'll be a, you know, switch to variant, uh or skew,
whatever it is, um, butregardless it's going to work on
switch to, obviously, yeah andum, and I think they just want
to hit the biggest demographicpossible.
I think, you know, especiallywith new pokemon fans coming up
all the time, I don't think, orelse it's going to work on
Switch too, obviously, and Ithink they just want to hit the
biggest demographic possible.
I think, you know, especiallywith new Pokemon fans coming up
all the time, I don't thinkthey're particularly discerning
when it comes to graphicalcapabilities and I think they'll

(01:34:34):
buy it no matter what it lookslike.

For sure.
I mean like Ultra Sun, ultraMoon came out when the Switch
was out, and what else was there?
Black 2, white 2 came out whenthe 3DS was already out, stuff
like that.
So I definitely understand thatpoint.
So I guess kind of one of thelast things here I was sort of
thinking of talking about wasDonkey Kong Country Returns HD.

(01:34:59):
I think all of us have gottento play it except for
Thunderstache, right, but you'veobviously played the Despite
the shirt.

You didn't play the new Donkey Kong game.

Yeah, you know what?
Obviously, I beat it on Wiiyeah.

And.

That's for me.

Very familiar with it.
But no, you know what it's beena.
I'm sure you know because youjust came from a podcast, andre.
But it's just been.
It just been nonstop withpodcasts and news the last
couple of days and honestly, I'mat the tail end of Indiana
Jones for review and that gameis something else, man.

It's good man.
I'm going to play a trailerhere that while I still talk of
Donkey Kong Country current HD.
But I have made it to world 3at the final boss, so I haven't
started that boss yet.
Mark, did you picked it upright?

I picked it up, but I haven't had the chance to
play, unfortunately.
I'm sorry we're eating up myentire week.

That's understandable uh you've gotten
to play it right yeah, Istreamed, um, a good chunk of
that game actually a couple daysago and you know that this game
was a big reason why a lot ofpeople were thinking switch to
wouldn't happen this week,because why would you uh, suck
out all the air in the room fromdonkey kong, you know, when you
don't have to, but Nintendoworks in mysterious ways.
Yes, I've been playing it.

(01:36:30):
You know, I've always likedthis game.
I don't think it's as good astropical freeze, which is the
best platformers of all time,but this game is still good, you
know, still holds up, but italso doesn't really add anything
new.
I guess really add anything new.

(01:36:52):
I guess you know a handful of3ds stages.
If you didn't play that versionmaybe did then there's truly
nothing new here, except for thevisuals.
I think, just a yeah and yeah,and I think you know, overall I
think it's a.
It's a good looking game.
Still, it's an art style thatholds up.
It looks good in hd.
Just, you know, as one who is abig fan of, uh, you know,
donkey kong in general and um,you know well, and Nintendo of
course.
But I am a little perturbed, alittle bit, by some of the
missing effects here, especiallywhen you're charging full price
.
I noticed in level two, I think, or three.

(01:37:14):
There's a sun that appearsbriefly in the Switch version
and then it just disappears.

I don't know where the sun went.
It stays there on Wii.
I'm like where'd the sun go?

And it's just little details like that.
Like, even if the game stilllooks fine, most people won't
even know some.
I'm like if you're going tocharge full price for this, you
should at least have it matchthe visual quality of the.
You know the original versionand it didn't, so in principle
it annoys me, and if I weren'tcovering it game before and you

(01:37:45):
don't have any other versions ofit, it's fine on Switch.
Pick it up.
It's still really good, unlessyou don't own Tropical Freeze,
in which case you should buythat instead and play that game.

That game was amazing.
Tropical Freeze is fantastic,one of the best platforms ever.
It just controls so tight andso well.
It just feels perfect.
This is great and so well, itjust feels perfect it's.
This is like the.
This still runs.
This is great.
It still performs good and Imean it still is kind of it's a
little looser than it's justlooser than Tropical Freeze, if

(01:38:15):
that makes any sense at all.
And this is like theunperfected version of that game
.

I don't.
I need to go back and doublecheck.
I don't know if it's just me,but another friend had the same
issue too, where in the Switchversion I had the occasional
issue where I'm trying to eitherroll or ground pound and then
do the opposite thing I want,and I don't remember if that
happened on Wii or not.
So I don't know if that's a newissue or an original one, but
it is bugging me regardless,Whereas I don't recall that
issue.

Yeah, I've had that issue a couple of times as
well, and I don't remember it onthe 3ds one either, and I just
replayed that again, I think in2021, and I just I don't
remember that issue.
I definitely don't remember iton we, but I could be wrong.
It could have been an issuethere, you know, I I don't know,
um, but I think, uh, overall,you know, if you haven't played

(01:39:01):
it and if you haven't picked itup before, it's a great pickup,
it's a great play.
But yeah, I'm pretty irritated.
It's a $60 price point.
I think it's crazy.
Honestly, I, if I didn't planon streaming this and doing
stuff with it, I would not havepicked it up yet.
I would have waited for a pricedrop.
But I also won the pre-orderbonus, which was kind of silly

(01:39:24):
is it the?
GameStop one yeah, I'm a suckerfor DK barrels or any kind of
barrel but it's like that waspart of the reason that sold me
like getting in at launch, andit's like that's great, got a DK
barrel now, you know that wasuh, yeah.
Somebody said uh, yes, groundpound can sometimes auto roll,

(01:39:45):
it seems so what's that about?

That's not good, Especially in this game.
This game is already hardenough and it is pretty
precision-based.
You can't expect to be standingstill to roll off a cliff.
That's a big deal.

Yeah, it's a little crazy.
I'm looking forward for youplaying it, mark, because Mark
has not played one since DonkeyKong Country 2.
Yeah, way's a little crazy.
I'm looking forward for youplaying it, mark, because Mark
has not played one since what?
Donkey Kong Country 2?

Yeah, way, way back.

Ignore everything I said.
You're going to have a greattime.

Yeah, no, I've had a lot of fun playing through
it again.
It's just there's a couple ofthings that's kind of irritating
about that.
But I guess the last thing thatI kind of wanted to bring up
that was non-Nintendo, since wedid pretty much cover just
Nintendo for this episode was.
It kind of came out that aPlayStation executive, shuhei

(01:40:38):
Yoshida, said he would havetried to resist Sony's
controversial live service videogame push.
Yoshida was the president ofSIE Worldwide Studios for Sony
Interactive from 2008 to 2019.
They told this to Kind of FunnyGames that Sony always knew its
investment in live servicegames was risky.

(01:40:59):
So we obviously knew about theLast of Us thing that got
canceled.
We saw Concord what happenedthere, apparently, which this is
one one I didn't know at all.
I don't think anybody knewabout it before.
Right God of War being indevelopment from Bluepoint,
which is crazy.

To me it's a shame, because you could have
been working on a Bloodborneremake, right, basically what
everybody's been wanting.
I kind of had the could havebeen working on a Bloodborne
remake Right, Basically whateverybody's been wanting.

Well, I kind of had the thought that they were
just going to run through theDark Souls games again because
they're so popular.
I mean, they did the Demon'sSouls remake, which is fantastic
.
I just suck at Soulsborne games.
I buy and play every single oneof them and I've only ever
beaten Dark Souls 2.
I know I suck.

I'm a terrible gamer.

They're difficult.
So I guess, technically, eldenRing.
I haven't played the DLC yet,so that's two, but yeah, god of
War title and development.
Would that have been likeAscension?
Do you think Did anybody thathave been like Ascension?
Do you think Did anybody playGod of War Ascension?

No, what was that one?

again, it was spinoff on the PS3.
Like semi-spinoff, I guess,just based on the game, me
trying to think of a God of Warmultiplayer game.

it's kind of wild yeah, the whole the idea
just sounds fundamentally flawed.
I I don't know what quite whatthey were thinking there.
Um, I mean, live service gamesare hard enough to make,
seemingly, but especially whenyou pair it with ip doesn't
really seem to make sense.
I guess they're just like thisis a big ip, it'll do well, but
I don't think it's that clearcut which sony eventually
started to realize, it seemsyeah, it's not like that's a,

(01:42:51):
it's a rich single player drivenip right and that's doing that
man, it's doing very well.

Don't screw it up.
Yeah, yeah, don't screw it up.
Like these last two God of Wargames have been excellent games.
Don't screw it up.

I have to say about.
I mean, I got to wonder howmany developers have live
service games in the works rightnow that are really starting to
question if they should proceedor not.
Yeah, because probably a lot.
Yeah, I would imagine a lot.
Yeah, I would imagine a lot too.

Just because, I think, just because of 2020 and
COVID, I think because a lot ofpeople picked up consoles
because people were home, theyhad more time to play this stuff
, so the user base was justsignificantly higher and they
saw that they were like, whoa,look at all these people who are
playing Fortnite and all theseother games that we got.
We got to take advantage ofthis and they're stuck there.

(01:43:49):
It seems like PlayStationdevelopers, even Xbox developers
at the time, are always likefour years behind as far as the
trends Plus game developmenttakes forever.
Yeah, game development takesforever.
That's fair, but it's like theyare so behind.
That's why you don't chasetrends to begin with that.

That is why that's yeah.
That's why you just try and becreative and make your make your
own trend, instead of trying to.

You know, copy formulas kind of to that point.
Oh, I'm sorry, go ahead.
No, no, you're good.
I was just gonna mention hownintendo kind of did their own
live service game, but in a verynintendo way, with f099.
Yep, you know, and that youknow.
Obviously that game is nofortnight, it's not blowing up
like that, but I think it'sdoing well for what it is as a
dedicated community.

(01:44:37):
They have been constantlyupdating it for over a year now.
Yeah, it's great, which isagain unusual, again unusual for
Nintendo.
And then you know, and it lookslike it does, it looks like a
16-bit game.
You know Nintendo's like we'regoing to make a live service
game, but we're going to do itcheaply and it's going to be
awesome and people are going tolove it.

And they nailed it you know they did it the
right way.
Yeah, I mean I where it saysyou got to play an online
multiplayer game.
So I always choose that as mygame, and oftentimes each week
it'll be like an F-Zero thing aswell, but I replay it and I'm
just like this is such a goodidea.
I mean even Tetris 99 I thoughtwas excellent.

(01:45:18):
Obviously, the Mario game.
That got canceled, fortunately.

Well, hey, it might be back right, Because
we got the 40th this yearthat's true nice I would like
him to.

I thought it was great, but I guess I just wanted
to say I was interested in yourthoughts because I happen to be
watching a video today onYouTube.
I was driving it was a asthmagold video reacting to another
video about talking about youknow how live services are the
bane.
Like live services alone arelike the problem.
But the idea was brought upthat it's not necessarily the

(01:45:52):
live service that's the problem,but a lot of these games that
fail they're just bad.
Even if they were single playergames, they're just bad games
Like that's the problem.
Like Fortnite, as much as Idon't care for the game, it's
not succeeding because it's alive service game.
It's not.
It's not succeeding because thelive service game, it's just a
good game that so happens to bea live service game.
Yeah, I know, like a lot ofthese games seem to fail,
whether it's uh, uh, sorry, Ihad to pull it for a second.

(01:46:15):
I really thought it was ababylon's fall or concord, like
these are.
They didn't fail because of thelive service model, which
obviously plays a role into it,but it's just.
They're just bad games at theircore.

Yeah, no, I agree with that.
Well, I mean, we gotta bring upthe big winner when it comes to
this Suicide Squad.

Yeah.
It didn't fail because of thelive service.
It's just a bad game.

Yeah, well , I think they're developing
games with the live servicemodel front of mind instead of
actual good creative ideas tomake a good game.
So that's what happens when youthink about money first, that
it shouldn't be about moneyfirst, like when you sit down to
create a video game.

(01:46:58):
You shouldn't be sitting downsaying, all right, how can we
get the most money out of theconsumer it?
It usually doesn't work thatway.
If you make a really good game,the money will follow.

What I think is like how many of these do you
have to do bad before you getone good?
Because the last one I thinkthat did, besides Marvel Rivals,
which is doing very, very crazynumbers, absurd numbers,
helldivers 2 for PlayStation.
So how many failed attempts doyou have to have for one to be

(01:47:31):
successful and be okay and makeyour money?
Because to me it's like if youfail a five and you get one
that's successful, that's notenough.

Probably not.
Yeah, no, I mean, you're right,I mean I think it's a
complicated issue, I think.
But yeah, I mean, I thinkultimately, you know, there's
nothing inherent about the liveservice model that is keeping
people away from these games.
They just often are bad.
But I think also, though, thereis an element of it where you
have to reach a critical massfor these games for it to make

(01:48:01):
any kind of financial sense, andmost of them aren't able to.
But I think it is a verycompetitive space where there
isn't that much room for allthese games to survive, to exist
together, you know, and ofcourse, fortnite's a big one and
that's sucking up a lot ofspace, and not every game can be
fortnite, especially with somuch fortnite success being on.
You know, not obviously nothingto take away, anything away
from it, but a lot of whatfortnite is known for is

(01:48:23):
bringing together all theseother ips and how many times can
you do that?
right, you know, yeah, dead bydaylight's done that for the
horror space, but there's onlyso many unique ways in which you
can do that and, uh, I think itbecomes even more difficult.

You know, looking at from that angle, as
more successful ones do comealong, which isn't many like add
in hell, divers 2 and marvelrivals.
There I feel like the less itcan be successful because you've
already got people sucked upfor those type of games.
That's just how I feel about it.

I look at the time too, the time
investment, how much time?

do you?

have to play these live service games.

You've got to dedicate time.
They've got daily goals thatyou've got to do and all that
kind of stuff.

You might have other games you want to
play, like single player games,and if you're if you have like
more than one live service game,you're not going to have time
to do that.
You're going to do the otherthings in life that you need to
do and that you should probablybe prioritizing Exactly.

Yeah, yeah, for sure, I mean it's, it's, it's an
interesting and I think youknow it's gonna be interesting
to see what playstation does,kind of moving forward, because
I think concord really flippedthe script for them I feel like
you had 200 million dollars onthat.

Yeah, it's a lot of money, crazy yeah, I've seen
a lot of different numbers.
A lot of people have to befired.
That's a lot of money the wholething.

It was around for a week or something before
the shutdown.
That was quick.
That's absurd to me, the factthat those numbers must have
been god-awful for them, noteven to give it a chance at
redeeming itself.

I don't know about you guys.
But when I saw it same withSuicide Squad, when I saw the
trailer both of these games whenI saw the trailer yeah, both of
these games I said to my girlI'm like I guarantee you this
game is going to fail so badit's going to flop.
You can just see it.
It was obvious.
And even with Concord, likeright, remember seeing that

(01:50:18):
first part of the trailer?
Right, yeah, I was like, oh,this looks interesting.
You know, it's Guardians of theGalaxy, vibes a little bit.
And then you see, oh, it's alive service game.
Instantly, I'm not interested.
This is not what I want.

I feel like with that one too, the weird thing
was they were really wanting youto care about the story of
these characters With thattrailer.
Yeah, they were really wantingyou to care For a live service
game.
People do not care.
It's like, uh, with call ofduty games, I mean, I know
people they don't ever touch.
They don't touch the campaign.

Yep, you know, yeah, so yeah, I remember I had
a friend that used to arguethat.
You know, maybe he's right, Ihave no idea, I never looked
into it but he used to arguethat people bought call of duty
mostly for a single player.
I'm like, I'm pretty sure theydon, I'm pretty sure most people
are buying it for themultiplayer and I'm sure there
are some that are playing itonly for single, but I think
they're I love the campaigns butI can tell you everybody I know

(01:51:14):
in my circle of people do nottouch the campaign.

Yeah, same here.

I love the campaign.
I played Black Ops 6 campaign,reviewed it, absolutely loved it
.
But I played it because it's ongame pass and I have game pass
right.
I wouldn't.
I would not buy that for $70just to play the campaign.
I would wait till it's, youknow, $20 years down the road
and play it yeah yeah, I'm gladyou have to go before.

People actually cared about the campaigns in
those games yep, for sure.

Yeah, I'm with you, but, uh, we appreciate
having you guys on.
Thank you so much,thunderstache Andre, for hanging
out with us tonight.
Um, thanks everybody in thechat for hanging out as well.
Uh, of course, we'll be liveagain next Friday at 8 PM
Eastern standard time, and then,uh, for anybody watching this
live sorry audio listeners,you're always late to this, but

(01:52:08):
me and Mark will be streamingtomorrow at 8pm Eastern Standard
Time as well, playing Warhammer.
Right, we're playing Warhammer.
Yeah, okay, playing WarhammerSpace Marine 2.
So everybody is welcome to abunch of these streams that
we're doing.
We're doing community streamstuff that anybody can play and
stuff.
I've been trying to do that asmuch as.

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Nintendo Switch 2 Leaks, Mario Kart Evolution, and Game Pass Debate | Game Junction Podcast #116

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Nintendo Switch 2 Leaks, Mario Kart Evolution, and Game Pass Debate | Game Junction Podcast #116