February 19, 2025 • 43 mins
This episode explores the intersection of fighting games and personal growth, delving into the nostalgic experiences that shaped our understanding of skill and competition. Through discussions of iconic games like Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter, we reflect on the valuable life lessons learned through gameplay and the significance of the growth mindset in our lives.
• Examining personal connections to fighting games
• Discussing nostalgic childhood experiences with Mortal Kombat
• The impact of console wars: Genesis vs. Super Nintendo
• Journeying toward mastery and skill development in gaming
• How fighting games fostered resilience and personal growth
• The evolution of online gaming and community interaction
• The importance of adopting a growth mindset in gaming and life
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Gaming Persona podcast.
This is the show that exploreswho we become when we play games
, whether you're saving kingdoms, leading epic raids or just
vibing in cozy indie worlds.
Join me, dr Gamology and mygood friend Marcus as we search
for all the ways gaming andpersonal growth collide.
Grab your controllers and let'scontinue the journey Now.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
So not only am I wearing my bro hockey hat, right
, I've been thinking a lot,since we're going to be talking
about fighting games today.
So, off the cuff, if you were aninja, what kind of ninja would
you be?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
A cold one, a cold one.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I did not expect that answer.
That was, I thought of ahundred different answers.
It was not that one.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
No, Sub-Zero is my favorite ninja forever.
I just think that's my answer.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Oh, okay, well, yeah, but I didn't expect that answer
.
Well, that's a good one.
So if I was a ninja, I would bethe Beverly Hills ninja.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Wow, okay, I would never have guessed that either.
This is going to be amazing.
So we're talking about fightinggames for real this time.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yes, but we had to start off with what type of
ninja we would be right because,like that, that that sets
precedent.
So you're basically saying youwant to be in the most brutal
fighting world ever listen, I'ma fan of the first mortal
combatant to have their fatalitycensored.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Okay, Like that.
That to me made Sub-Zero theguy that you want to master all
his moves and the fade to blackCause you can't see the fatality
of him taking the head with thespine attached and ripping it
out of the person's back.
(02:08):
I just that's brutal, it's veryviolent, but in the early 90s
it didn't exactly look real.
I mean the OK.
There's a lot we could talkabout just with Mortal Kombat.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I know, but I want to hear this.
So what do you mean?
It didn't look real because Iremember playing.
Listen, I had a sega genesis, Iremember.
So people remember contra'scode.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
That is not the code to me blood code abac abb yeah,
that's it because sega didn'tallow blood on launch day.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
You needed to cut in order to unlock it.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
And also on Super Nintendo, there was no blood at
all.
It was just like spit gettingknocked out of their face.
Also, they had differentfatalities in the Super Nintendo
version of Mortal Kombat 1.
Really, really, yeah.
So there were four people thatwere affected by this change.
(03:08):
On the Super Nintendo, which isa console I owned, you had a
Sega Genesis, didn't you?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That says everything about ourfriendship.
Sub-zero did not have the fadeto black rip your spine out.
Fatality.
On the super nintendo, he hadthis completely different thing
(03:28):
where he, like, freezes you andshatters you, and just your legs
are left.
Oh the uppercut.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah, wow, because, okay, I can see that well, I'm
just gonna bring a littleconsole war into this.
I can see that.
Well, I'm just going to bring alittle console war into this.
Just remember, yeah, the SuperNintendo was great, but the
Super Nintendo did not have SegaCD or the 32X.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Okay, I never got to play anything on any of those
things.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
That's a shame.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
I know it really is.
There was a day where I visiteda friend's house and we played
Sonic and Knuckles all afternoonand I asked my mom if I could
get Sonic and Knuckles and shesaid yes, but she didn't
understand the differentconsoles.
So I was super excited becauseI was like, oh my gosh, my mom's
going to get me a Sega Genesis.
(04:20):
And then, as soon as she foundout that it doesn't work on my
Super Nintendo, that yes becamea no.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Which I understand.
Understand, yes, of course.
What was cool too is if youplugged your Sonic the Hedgehog
2 on top of the Sonic andKnuckles, you could be with
Tails too yeah, so that's theoriginal DLC, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (04:41):
yeah one of the one of the original approaches.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, that's so cool I miss the game genie too,
marcus so back to fighting games, right, all right.
So the I was a sega guy becausethat's just what was available
at christmas, and I tell thisjoke all the time the only way I
got the sega because it was allviolent games was I told my
(05:05):
grandma that I wanted echo thedolphin, and that's my first
game.
Yeah, smart but then that movedon to doom real quick, but
anyway.
So I was introduced to fightinggames.
Um, actually, on the panasonic3do there was two fighting games
it.
It was called the King ofFighters and then I still to
(05:26):
this day don't know the othername of the game and it's going
to kill me.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
King of Fighters is still there.
It's really big People love it.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Oh, it was Way of the Warrior and it was Samurai
Showdown, but I think that cameafter yeah, that might have came
after sega genesis.
I can't remember 3do and thesega genesis were around the
same time so that's your firsttime playing a fighting game
(06:00):
well, that's what I remember,other than Mortal Kombat on the
Sega Genesis.
Yeah, do you?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
remember Book it, no, marcus.
Okay, it was a school programthat gave you a little button
that you could wear and you hadto read a book every month in
school and when the teacherverified that you finished a
book you'd get a little sticker.
And when you get enoughstickers you take the button to
(06:30):
Pizza Hut.
You get a free personal panpizza.
So this was the way schools inthe early 90s rewarded kids for
reading is they had this pizzaconnection with Pizza Hut and
reading books.
And I remember one of the firsttimes my parents took me to
(06:52):
actually cash in my button andget the pizza.
There was a Mortal Kombat 1cabinet in the Pizza Hut and I
wanted to play it because I wasalso a really big fan of
Terminator at the time themovies and Kano had the metal
eye and I saw Kano doing a demofight against Raiden and Raiden
(07:18):
has the hat and he has thelightning abilities God of
Thunder and lightning and I sawthat fight and I was just like I
want to play as Kano, I want tofight Raiden.
And then I got to put quartersin the machine and I lost and
but I really enjoyed it and thenevery time I would see an
(07:38):
arcade cabinet, I'd ask if Icould play, and eventually I got
better.
And then I got a Super Nintendoso I could play Mortal Kombat 1
and 2 at home, and that'sreally how fighting games became
the beginning of me playingreally playing video games.
In a way, that was more aboutremembering stuff, because when
you're playing Mario on the NESlike the first Mario with Duck
(08:01):
Hunt, I don't remember trying tolearn every little thing about
that game.
I tried to beat the game and Itried not to die in the levels,
but what I got from MortalKombat was a different level of
aiming for mastery.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Yeah, for sure it was hard, right Like I never did
anything.
And just so you know, hardright like I never did anything.
And just so you know, I myfirst fighting game was street
fighter 2 and mortal combat, butthe way of the warrior, I just
sent you the the trailer for itand discord it came.
That's the one where it reallycemented.
I like fighting games, but whatdid me versus street fighter 2,
(08:43):
turbo and mortal combat wasmortal combat was more realistic
, like the move set was real,like yeah, they still have their
special moves, but like it feltreal and that was the art style
that they chose to do.
Everything was based off ofreal people and like all the
little cameras on them Back inmotion capture back then, where
(09:08):
Street Fighter is all animation.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Yeah, it's like a cartoon animation versus.
They actually did soundstagerecording and having the pads
and stuff and have the actorsactually do the jumping moves,
land on the pads so they don'tget injured.
Do the jumping moves land onthe pads so they don't get
injured and then take the bestshots and then string those
together on the frame of thecharacters in game.
(09:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah, and then the genre just grew from there and
I'm sure there's people outthere screaming at us saying
there was this game and thatgame, but really for me it was
Mortal Kombat, street streetfighter 2, turbo, and then this
way of the warrior.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Then also there were all of the kind of clones of
mortal kombat 3.
You get killer instinct, youget primal rage you got.
Then you got other remixingwhat fighting games are like
Virtua Fighter and Soul Caliburand Tekken Soul Calibur.
(10:08):
I love Soul Calibur so much.
In fact, my favorite SoulCalibur I can't play right now
no, it's four because it hasDarth Vader in it and his throw
is the Emperor throw, where youmake it so your back is to the
edge of the arena, hit them witha throw and he just picks them
(10:30):
up and throws them like emperorpalpatine in return of the jedi
spoilers.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Wait, so you can't you can't play soul caliber.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
No, because it's a PS3 game and because of
licensing, it has Starkiller,yoda and Darth Vader in it and
whenever fighting games have alicense like that's time limited
, it becomes really hard for thegame to ever get re-released or
played on a new console.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Oh, so it's not backwards compatible, correct?
Speaker 1 (11:11):
And do you still have your PS3?
If I wanted to go try to digout the PS3 and hook it up just
to play Soul Calibur 4, then,yes, I could play Soul Calibur 4
.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
All right, because sometimes just saying that
that's what you gotta do yeah,just sometimes you gotta turn it
on, let it update for 17 hoursand just play it because just
for the nostalgia.
But you know, updates are theworst but you could come oh,
it's the truth.
You could come back also andsay that mortal kombat and
(11:40):
street fighter paved the waywhere Street Fighter was there
before Mortal Kombat.
But I feel like Mortal Kombatgot so much publicity because of
the blood and the gore that itskyrocketed the fighting game
industry, because I rememberplaying Mortal Kombat 2 in the
arcade like my mom would go tothe mall and say here's 10 bucks
(12:02):
, I'll be back in an hour.
And I was at an arcade and Iwould play Mortal Kombat two and
I got so good that I wouldn'tlose.
Come back and I'd still have 10bucks or $9 and 75, actually $9
because I would get a dollar'sworth of quarters but that it
really skyrocketed, like all ofthose games.
(12:23):
Like you said, primal Rage Iforgot about that game until you
mentioned it.
And it was good.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
It really was.
All these games had thingsabout them that were unique
twists, but Mortal Kombat hasfinishers right, the fatalities,
friendships, babalities,animalities, just all the
different ways that you canreally stick it to the person
that I just beat you, and thatwas a big thing.
(12:50):
I remember still the emotionalenergy of I've only publicly
done fatalities in arcades tolike five people in my life
because most of the time Iwasn't playing multiplayer, I
was trying to climb the ladderagainst the game.
But these arcade cabinets havetwo sets of control sticks and
(13:14):
buttons and you can both putyour quarters in at the same
time, fight each other, and whenyou fatality somebody and do
these like mythological powermoves to blow them up, it's.
It's like the biggest show oftrash talk in gamer life that I
can even imagine you do?
Speaker 2 (13:37):
you have you ever watched break dancers dance?
Yeah, and they like battle andwhen they're done with their
battle, they cross their arms.
Yeah, that's what I feel like.
If you're in an arcade or youget to do a fatality at somebody
, or even if, like I was at yourhouse and and I did a fatality
to you, I would be like cross myarms, be like sup.
(13:57):
Doc, how you feeling right now?
Speaker 1 (13:59):
you just got eaten.
Yeah, shut up, marcus.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
I'm talking about?
Yeah, but you're right though,because I'm looking at the.
I typed in Google 1990sfighting games.
Do you remember Clay Fighter?
I?
Speaker 1 (14:14):
don't.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Okay, google that.
Clay Fighter, the mostwell-known game, that fighting
game that pushed the boundariesof teenage boys.
What was that fighting game,doc, dead or alive yes, where
they introduced the what wouldyou call that jiggle physics?
The jiggle physics, yeah, andthere was so much hype around it
(14:41):
.
And then they, but it was justfor the jiggle.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Yeah, but actually Dead or Alive is a good fighting
game.
It has a very different take onhow buttons and throws cancel
each other out like paperscissors, rock Whereas the other
ones, like Mortal Kombat andStreet Fighter, are very
combo-based and you don't reallycancel as much.
(15:06):
So when I say cancel for peoplewho maybe don't play as many
fighting games, a cancel iswhere you start moving into one
move and then do a buttonsequence that changes what
you're doing in the middle ofthe animation.
And Dead or Alive does this too, but they do it in terms of if
(15:28):
someone's hitting you with atriangle and you hit circle,
that'll cancel, but if you hitsquare, their triangle will beat
your square.
So it's like rock, paperscissors shoot yeah.
Street Fighter is more aboutmanaging meters and using moves
and super moves to support yourcombos and control where your
(15:50):
opponent is on the stage, sothey can't move.
Basically Like that, all theycan do is get hit by you.
And Mortal Kombat is very muchabout combos and special moves
and juggles.
So you want to keep the personpopping through the air, getting
hit by your fists and kicks,and so they all have the same
(16:12):
setup one versus one, leftperson facing right person
health bars at the top.
But then once it says fight,they're all completely different
games.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Right, it says fight they're all completely different
games, right?
Yeah, it's, and then.
And then you throw in when theyadded blocking blocking's been.
Oh yeah but I mean, when itreally became like mortal combat
3 for me changed it because youcould start doing combos.
It wasn't just punch punch kick, it was punch punch, kick,
(16:49):
sweep.
And you had to learn how to usethat block button in order to
be victorious and run.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Mortal kombat 3 added run.
That's true.
That was a really big change tothe speed of the matches and
the speed of how much you neededto think fast Because Mortal
Kombat 2 had a slow flow to itthat you could watch and predict
(17:17):
and execute.
Mortal Kombat 3 was so muchmore chaotic because of the run
button.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
And then you could uppercut somebody through the
ceilings.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
That's true too, but that was just flashy fun.
Yeah, the Mortal Kombatinnovations over the years.
I think that is easily myfavorite fighting franchise.
And then Soul Calibur and thenStreet Fighter.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Yeah, it's hard for me not to pick Mortal Kombat
just because I feel like I'm themost attached to that, because
I spent so much time playing it,and I think it's because of the
finishing move.
Like you fight in StreetFighter and you just fight until
the meter's gone, but in MortalKombat you fight and then you
(18:06):
see finish him and you're like,oh shit, I won.
I'm ending this right now.
Yeah, it's over when in StreetFighter or these other games,
you're just you fight and thenyou hit them and they're down
and they say round one.
You don't feel it doesn't feellike a final fight.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
I was.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Well, that's another fighting game.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Final fight.
Yeah, while you were describingthat, marcus, I was thinking
about all the times I fatalityto another player in public.
And there's one that I have totell you, live microphones
recording, because it's probablynot my proudest moment as a
counselor.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
It's got to be good.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Oh no, it's so good.
It also is my proudest momentas a counselor.
There was a field trip at myfirst counseling agency
counseling agency.
We took the clients out to getGolden Corral for a special
lunch.
Sure, you know, being in theprogram for a certain amount of
time, you get to go get lunch.
(19:12):
Three clinicians field trip.
That Golden Corral had MortalKombat 4.
And I remember playing and oneof the clients being like, oh
Daniel, you play Mortal Kombat.
No way, I love this game.
I was like, yeah, mortalKombat's my favorite and I was
playing as Raiden Uh-huh.
(19:32):
And so he put in quarters tooand interrupted my attempt to
climb the ladder and defeat Goroand Shinnok and become Mortal
Kombat champion.
He wanted the smoke and we.
We fought.
I won round one, I flawlessvictory round two and I fatality
.
The client blew him up with thelightning.
(19:56):
Uh, picked him up withlightning and zapped him until
he exploded.
Nice, and I guess, looking backon it, if I would have been
more mature as a counselor, Iwould have thought about the
treatment efficacy of if I letthem win or make it a little bit
competitive, but allow them towin, then they get like a life
(20:17):
lesson of how good it feels toput yourself out there and be
social and game with people, buton the other hand he put those
quarters into that machine inthe middle of my game.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yes, he said I want it, yeah, and you got it.
No, you don't, yeah.
Yeah, you said no, you don't.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Hey, I'm too competitive everybody.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Dude, what are you wearing on your head?
So sidebar for everybody.
I had to run upstairs.
I had a little bit of kid dramagoing on.
So I come back and doc iswearing a raiden hat for the
people listening on all thepodcast stuff.
But anyway, but I've beenthinking while I ran upstairs
(21:01):
consciously, subconsciously,whatever that when you put a
quarter into an arcade machine,you're saying it's go time, mofo
.
You need to know that person onthe other end, whether it's
your mom, your uncle, your dad,your brother or a client,
(21:21):
there's a 50 percent chanceyou're going to get your ass
whooped.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, that's true, it is 50 50 cause it's one versus
one.
Mortal combat is quite possiblyone of the reasons that I think
about video games sophilosophically as well, and it
all has to do with one blackscreen with white letters.
Marcus, do you know what thosewhite letters said?
(21:47):
No, there is no knowledge.
That is not power.
Ooh, that is how Mortal Kombat3 starts, and I was all about
Mortal Kombat 3.
I was doing Taekwondo becauseof Mortal Kombat for the entire
elementary school of my life,and so when that came out, I was
(22:13):
starting to get into learningsome really fun moves and
learning Like it was part of mylifestyle.
Yeah, for it to have the basictraits of Taekwondo, yeah, yeah,
eight, nine, 10 years oldsomewhere in there.
(22:43):
And so for me to pick up on aphilosophical life lesson and
connect it to my love of martialarts and like all the other
things I liked that were martialarts like three ninjas and
power rangers and teenage mutantninja turtles and for it to say
there is no knowledge that isnot power.
It really explains parts of methat still help me get through
(23:06):
stuff, that help me earn a PhDand be very good at school,
where you acquire knowledge andyou develop them into skills,
and fighting games are aboutseeking out knowledge and
turning them into skill.
Unfortunately, a lot of verypowerful and influential people
(23:26):
going back 30 and 40 years havebeen distracted by the violence
of fighting games and that's allthey see.
And that's why we have the esrbuh rating system, because we
have to be able to identify thatMortal Kombat is rated M for
mature Right and so it was verypolarizing in the early 90s,
(23:50):
this video game with thisviolence and these actors and
their heads getting popped offand bodies exploded and there's
red pixels on the screen that'ssupposed to be blood, and how
can kids be into this?
This is the end of society, Itell you.
Till grand theft auto three,that was about 10 more years in
the future.
But yeah, so you get past allof that violent coat of paint
(24:16):
and what you actually have areget your person in fist range
and hit square, square, triangle, circle, and then down in
triangle and then down towards X, and then it'll say finish him.
And then it's down down towardback circle and you turn to a
(24:40):
dragon and you bite them andthat's the end.
Right?
But it's all about memorizationin sequences that you can call
up in real time as reactions towhat's attacking you and then,
if you have memorized enoughthings and you apply them
correctly, and you apply themcorrectly, you win.
(25:01):
And actually that right there,I was actually describing how I
got through college, not how Iplay fighting games.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Ha, but the distinct thing about fighting games is
each one is a little different,right?
Do you remember King of theMonsters?
I do not remember King of theMonsters, Okay that was like you
were monsters fighting incities and you're walking
through streets stepping on cars.
I think that was Super Nintendoor Sega, maybe Sega Genesis, I
(25:33):
can't remember.
But then do you rememberBushido Blade?
Nope For the PlayStation 1?
.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Nope.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
I never had a PlayStation 1.
That whole thing.
Right there I was playing N64.
And so there's so many verypopular games for PS1 that I
just missed.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
You should get a PS1.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Can't you just play most of those games as PS
Classics?
Speaker 2 (26:01):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
PlayStation Plus.
Now, I don't know, it's allabout me having a title and
going and seeking it out.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Yeah, so, but then the next, I would say for me,
another game that shapedfighting games in a new way and
brought a new flair to it wasthe Tekken series, because that
was basically, you know, karateI'm going to say martial arts, I
shouldn't just say karate, butthere was different styles of
(26:28):
martial arts and it was amartial arts game.
Right, it wasn't like fantasyfighting, it was actual, like
Kung Fu versus Taekwondo, and ittook it for me, it took me by
storm, I actually fell in lovewith it.
Out of all the fighting games,I would say street fighter is
(26:49):
probably my least out of the bigones, my least favorite, okay,
but tekken is my solid two.
That and soul caliber, butreally tekken, because the
fighting styles were so smoothand it felt natural Like you're
going into a fighting tournamentor you're fighting somebody,
like there's a good chanceyou're in, like I do boxing, but
(27:12):
I come up against you who doesKung Fu, like you don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Probably come up on me playing as the kangaroo.
Yeah, that's all.
While you were going throughsome of those other games, you
peaked a curiosity in me that Iwas wondering did these games
make it into the gamer's journey?
And because I know mortalkombat did, because I talked
about there is no knowledge,that is not power yes street
(27:39):
fighter.
I did evo moment number numberit is 42 or 37 or something.
That moment lives on in my mindforever, even though I don't
remember the number.
That was Justin Wong versusDaigo Umehara and that was
(27:59):
Chun-Li versus Ken in theperfect and that was Chun-Li
versus Ken in the perfect blockof the ultra move.
That's just such intensepractice.
To be able to pull that offlive in a match with all those
people in the room that's insane.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yeah it.
And then moving past the basicsof the fighting games, not the
basics like the originals, rightwhen the playstation 3 and the
xbox 360 came out, and when thexbox 360 had xbox live, it
(28:41):
changed it because now you coulddo your fighting favorite
fighting games against theinternet.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
I hate playing fighting games with the internet
, marcus.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
We'll get good.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
No, I don't want to get good at an internet level.
Okay, so here's the thing Ihave had to wrestle with the
realization, since the internetbecame part of every fighting
game, that I have never beengood at fighting games.
My entire life I've neveractually been good at them, even
the ones I love, like mortalkombat 2 yeah, I was never good.
(29:17):
I was just better than everyonethat I came across in illinois
and iowa.
As a kid problem is, I neverplayed against kids that played
like nine hours a day and livedin new york, right like I never
played against people in japanthat just understand this stuff
(29:41):
perfectly because it's part oftheir DNA, sure, right.
And so I remember the first gamethat was a fighting game that
had all this internet stuff andtrophies connected to online
play.
Trophies are achievements thatyou earn that force you to do
(30:01):
things that maybe you wouldn'tnormally do, but because it's on
the list, you want to try it.
It was a Mortal Kombat game andit was on PS 3 or 4, so it
might have been Mortal Kombat 9.
I don't remember I lost so badall afternoon trying to get one
(30:22):
victory the very easiest trophyto get for online play and it
was very hard for me to find oneperson that I could beat, and
then I realized, oh my gosh,I've never been good at this.
I just was better than peoplewho are worse than me.
And it changed.
(30:43):
I still enjoy playing fightinggames, but when I buy them,
there is no part of me that islooking at actually playing the
online content.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Sure, oh, I agree I was the same way, but for me it
was.
I got to play mortal combatwith my friends, or a fighting
game tech and or whatever withfriends that weren't at my house
Right.
Oh, now you like I'll scrollthrough like tick tock or well,
(31:19):
that like Twitter or whateverwherever, and they have these
people playing like MortalKombat 1.
And the way they're moving andlike their move sets and how
fluid it is, I would be likedead in one second.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
That's what I kept being up against is just people
that knew their characteralready.
I just turned the game on forthe first time 15 minutes ago.
Right, and that's a tough thingtoo.
And even if you have a gamethat has skill-based matchmaking
, it doesn't usually work,because by adding a game to your
(31:58):
lifestyle lifestyle you willinevitably be better than any
game that I pick up mycontroller and dabble in.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Skill-based matchmaking is if you log in and
you win your first match andyou win your second match,
they're like this guy's good andnow we're going to put him
against the next tier of peoplewhen, believe it or not.
Okay, so now it's a challenge.
And you lose a couple, win acouple, then you go on a hot
streak and you win three in arow.
Then they move you to the nextlevel and you're just getting
(32:32):
destroyed and it becomes meh, atsome point you have to start
practicing your craft.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
And if you don't want to get kicked down to that
lower tier and if you want tohave an afternoon where you
don't want to get kicked down tothat lower tier, and if you
want to have an afternoon whereyou don't have to deal with
losing 20 matches in a row, youhave to learn how to play better
.
And there's two things fromfighting games that I have
learned.
That I actually experienced onmy stream today, where I was not
(32:58):
playing a fighting game.
But that first thing is bosseshave the advantage because you
do not damage them with one ofyour hits as much as they damage
you with one of their hits,okay.
And then the other thing is youjust need to get a little bit
(33:22):
lucky in order to beat them,because they can read your moves
, it seems, and you are notmeant to beat them on the first
try, right, right.
So those boss characters likein Mortal Kombat, shang Tsung or
Shao Kahn, in Street Fighterit's M Bison.
(33:47):
I think all the early ones was mbison, maybe sagat in street
fighter one he was like thenumber two, okay, and then, yeah
, like the bosses are iconiccharacters and you get hit by
them once 20% of your health baris gone.
You hit them once with a punch,they still have 99.2% of their
(34:09):
health left.
You have to really be careful.
You have to master yourcharacter.
You have to avoid all damageand you have to expect that this
is meant to be a long fight foryou to inch them towards their
own defeat.
They can blast you right intoyour defeat.
(34:30):
Right and I was doing a bossfight in final fantasy 7 rebirth
.
That was a one-on-one fight.
It's just me playing cloudversus president rufus and you
can't take on any time a videogame has you take on a president
or a god.
You know that there's going tobe some cheating game
(34:51):
programming shenanigans builtinto the fight because they're
trying to teach you a lesson.
And President Rufus isinvulnerable to all the things.
He hits you.
You lose a thousand health whenyou only have 6,000.
You hit him, he's invulnerable.
You have to break his blockgauge and stagger him just so
(35:12):
that he takes some damage.
And I was not successful on mystream, Marcus, so two hours
stream, I did not beat him.
I'm playing on dynamicdifficulty and that boss feels
like a fighting game boss fromor a boss from Elden Ring.
My chat was commenting likewhen did Final Fantasy VII
Rebirth become Elden Ring?
Speaker 2 (35:35):
But you're playing it on the hardest setting and you
should have a boss.
That is that hard, but that wasgoing to be.
My next question is talkingabout bosses.
That is that hard, but that wasgoing to be.
My next question is talkingabout bosses.
I actually think that EldenRing is a form of a fighting
game.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
That's what I was saying with the transition to
rebirth.
Yes, absolutely.
It's not left and right, it'snot a 2D battlefield, but it is
a fighting game.
You have two characters withhealth bars and you fight until
(36:11):
you live or you die, and I thinkactually Elden Ring, because it
has so many different bossesand so many different mechanics.
It's actually a reallyfascinating game if you can
start thinking about it likeit's a fighting game yeah but
(36:34):
you know what Research hasactually commented on, why video
games might actually be goodthings for people to study and
get into.
I got to hear this yeah, so oneof the things I'm really big
about is shifting people out ofa problem focused mindset, and I
make this mistake myself allthe time.
(36:56):
It is so easy to look at thelast five things that you came
up short and then only rememberthose things and you have been
wasting years and years of yourlife and you'll never amount to
anything and sad blah, blah,blah.
But actually you want to switchto a mindset that is much
better suited for video gamesand actually works much better
(37:17):
in life too, and that's calledgrowth mindset.
Gamers might call thisprogression.
Ok, it's this idea that mystory about President Rufus.
I did not defeat him today.
I did not get his health bar tozero, I did not get the next
scene of the story and I did notget to take Cloud, tifa and
(37:38):
Aerith closer to the endgamegoal, but I did get him down to
50% without using my limit break, and I did get his dog down to
75% before I got shotgun blastedin the back one too many times
and lost.
I got shotgun blasted in theback one too many times and lost
, and even though I didn'tsucceed at the fight, to where I
(38:00):
can move on?
I have a strategy that I'mbuilding in my head.
I understand where my reactiontime needs to get better.
I understand where to becautious and really when to turn
the aggression on, to try topunish the boss for making
mistakes against me, and thatalso is a fighting game.
Term is punishing is when youhave an opening and you can go
(38:23):
in and just blast your opponentwith damage.
That's a punish, at least asmuch as I understand it.
There are people who masterthis stuff and they're rolling
their eyes at me.
I'm trying, though, because Ireally do love these in a casual
way, because I really do lovethese in a casual way.
So growth mindset is this ideathat failures do not define you.
They are a means to improvement, and when you have improved
(38:48):
across certain thresholds, youdo get to move on because you
have grown.
And this is the opposite of alot of society-based situations,
where we're expected to succeedon the first try, and if we
don't, then there's some stigmaattached to this Like you were
lazy, you didn't study, youdidn't take the challenge
seriously, and that's notactually true.
This is what we're afraid ofinside and what we're taught to
(39:11):
believe, but video games aremore about growth mindset.
They are more about.
We made this challengedeliberately hard.
You're not supposed to win itat the first 10 times.
You try even a hundred times.
Millennia blade of mickela inelden ring is a fighting game,
boss fight encounter.
It's one-on-one.
How many people have lost toher a hundred times before they
(39:36):
claim victory?
500, a thousand?
Any people that have lost athousand times to Millennia?
Speaker 2 (39:42):
I haven't gotten to her yet.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Well, I hope, when you do, I get to watch.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
I'm really like I'm enjoying Final Fantasy VII
Remake.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Oh, you started it.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Oh, that's so good I think I'm like three and a half
hours in three and a half yeah,so that's like chapter one,
chapter two.
Oh yeah, for sure, yeah, yeahlike I'm in, like that first
factory, like that's done, andthen I'm in the streets that's
cool.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
How are you liking cloud?
It's good it's.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
It is a lot like elden ring I gotta do, show and
tell marcus for everybody athome.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
He's grabbing his big cloud sword wow, thanks for
pausing on the word big marcusit is.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
He's grabbing his big sword.
Context.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Yeah, if you watched my stream the other day, you saw
this and we did the whole thing.
I went to Megacon last week butthis is the first Megacon that
I didn't present at.
In the last five I had a fouryear streak.
I went laps because I forgot toturn in an application, but I
did go ahead and get a bustersword for my office.
(40:57):
But I did go ahead and get aBuster Sword for my office.
And it is comical when I try toshow my stream because it just
keeps.
It's like the Star Destroyer atthe beginning of A New Hope,
marcus.
It just keeps going.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
See my mind went.
It's the Ron Jeremy of swords.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
Oh my gosh, marcus, what kind of you needed that M
for mature label, as a kid, ofcourse.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
I did, yeah, so I think we have tackled fighting
games and my question is can Ipick the topic for next week?
Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Elden Ring.
All right, let's talk aboutElden Ring.
I'll have to see if we can getsomeone who wrote a chapter in
psychology of Elden Ring to beon the show.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Oh, I can research one of the first authors and ask
them why they all.
I should message them all andask them.
The question would be why wouldyou start it off the same way
every chapter?
Speaker 1 (41:56):
oh man, I can't talk about that.
I only can talk about what mychapter was about.
What?
Speaker 2 (42:01):
it was the final chapter in the book.
It was the ultimate climax I'mthe final boss.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
oh god, yeah, I'm the final boss in my counseling
program and I'm the final bossin four of the five books that
I'm affiliated with.
It's fun.
I like being the end If you'reon a baseball team, which I
never have been, but if you'rethe closer and they bring you
(42:27):
out, it's because your team hasthe lead and you're just
expected to crush the hopes anddreams of the other team right
now.
Finish them.
It's like fighting gamementality to be the closer.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
And with that everybody continue the journey.
Welcome to the Gaming Persona podcast.
This is the show that exploreswho we become when we play games
, whether you're saving kingdoms, leading epic raids or just
vibing in cozy indie worlds.
Join me, dr Gamology and mygood friend Marcus as we search
for all the ways gaming andpersonal growth collide.
Grab your controllers and let'scontinue the journey Now.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
So not only am I wearing my bro hockey hat, right
, I've been thinking a lot,since we're going to be talking
about fighting games today.
So, off the cuff, if you were aninja, what kind of ninja would
you be?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
A cold one, a cold one.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I did not expect that answer.
That was, I thought of ahundred different answers.
It was not that one.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
No, Sub-Zero is my favorite ninja forever.
I just think that's my answer.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Oh, okay, well, yeah, but I didn't expect that answer
.
Well, that's a good one.
So if I was a ninja, I would bethe Beverly Hills ninja.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Wow, okay, I would never have guessed that either.
This is going to be amazing.
So we're talking about fightinggames for real this time.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yes, but we had to start off with what type of
ninja we would be right because,like that, that that sets
precedent.
So you're basically saying youwant to be in the most brutal
fighting world ever listen, I'ma fan of the first mortal
combatant to have their fatalitycensored.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Okay, Like that.
That to me made Sub-Zero theguy that you want to master all
his moves and the fade to blackCause you can't see the fatality
of him taking the head with thespine attached and ripping it
out of the person's back.
(02:08):
I just that's brutal, it's veryviolent, but in the early 90s
it didn't exactly look real.
I mean the OK.
There's a lot we could talkabout just with Mortal Kombat.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I know, but I want to hear this.
So what do you mean?
It didn't look real because Iremember playing.
Listen, I had a sega genesis, Iremember.
So people remember contra'scode.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
That is not the code to me blood code abac abb yeah,
that's it because sega didn'tallow blood on launch day.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
You needed to cut in order to unlock it.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
And also on Super Nintendo, there was no blood at
all.
It was just like spit gettingknocked out of their face.
Also, they had differentfatalities in the Super Nintendo
version of Mortal Kombat 1.
Really, really, yeah.
So there were four people thatwere affected by this change.
(03:08):
On the Super Nintendo, which isa console I owned, you had a
Sega Genesis, didn't you?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That says everything about ourfriendship.
Sub-zero did not have the fadeto black rip your spine out.
Fatality.
On the super nintendo, he hadthis completely different thing
(03:28):
where he, like, freezes you andshatters you, and just your legs
are left.
Oh the uppercut.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah, wow, because, okay, I can see that well, I'm
just gonna bring a littleconsole war into this.
I can see that.
Well, I'm just going to bring alittle console war into this.
Just remember, yeah, the SuperNintendo was great, but the
Super Nintendo did not have SegaCD or the 32X.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Okay, I never got to play anything on any of those
things.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
That's a shame.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
I know it really is.
There was a day where I visiteda friend's house and we played
Sonic and Knuckles all afternoonand I asked my mom if I could
get Sonic and Knuckles and shesaid yes, but she didn't
understand the differentconsoles.
So I was super excited becauseI was like, oh my gosh, my mom's
going to get me a Sega Genesis.
(04:20):
And then, as soon as she foundout that it doesn't work on my
Super Nintendo, that yes becamea no.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Which I understand.
Understand, yes, of course.
What was cool too is if youplugged your Sonic the Hedgehog
2 on top of the Sonic andKnuckles, you could be with
Tails too yeah, so that's theoriginal DLC, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (04:41):
yeah one of the one of the original approaches.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, that's so cool I miss the game genie too,
marcus so back to fighting games, right, all right.
So the I was a sega guy becausethat's just what was available
at christmas, and I tell thisjoke all the time the only way I
got the sega because it was allviolent games was I told my
(05:05):
grandma that I wanted echo thedolphin, and that's my first
game.
Yeah, smart but then that movedon to doom real quick, but
anyway.
So I was introduced to fightinggames.
Um, actually, on the panasonic3do there was two fighting games
it.
It was called the King ofFighters and then I still to
(05:26):
this day don't know the othername of the game and it's going
to kill me.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
King of Fighters is still there.
It's really big People love it.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Oh, it was Way of the Warrior and it was Samurai
Showdown, but I think that cameafter yeah, that might have came
after sega genesis.
I can't remember 3do and thesega genesis were around the
same time so that's your firsttime playing a fighting game
(06:00):
well, that's what I remember,other than Mortal Kombat on the
Sega Genesis.
Yeah, do you?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
remember Book it, no, marcus.
Okay, it was a school programthat gave you a little button
that you could wear and you hadto read a book every month in
school and when the teacherverified that you finished a
book you'd get a little sticker.
And when you get enoughstickers you take the button to
(06:30):
Pizza Hut.
You get a free personal panpizza.
So this was the way schools inthe early 90s rewarded kids for
reading is they had this pizzaconnection with Pizza Hut and
reading books.
And I remember one of the firsttimes my parents took me to
(06:52):
actually cash in my button andget the pizza.
There was a Mortal Kombat 1cabinet in the Pizza Hut and I
wanted to play it because I wasalso a really big fan of
Terminator at the time themovies and Kano had the metal
eye and I saw Kano doing a demofight against Raiden and Raiden
(07:18):
has the hat and he has thelightning abilities God of
Thunder and lightning and I sawthat fight and I was just like I
want to play as Kano, I want tofight Raiden.
And then I got to put quartersin the machine and I lost and
but I really enjoyed it and thenevery time I would see an
(07:38):
arcade cabinet, I'd ask if Icould play, and eventually I got
better.
And then I got a Super Nintendoso I could play Mortal Kombat 1
and 2 at home, and that'sreally how fighting games became
the beginning of me playingreally playing video games.
In a way, that was more aboutremembering stuff, because when
you're playing Mario on the NESlike the first Mario with Duck
(08:01):
Hunt, I don't remember trying tolearn every little thing about
that game.
I tried to beat the game and Itried not to die in the levels,
but what I got from MortalKombat was a different level of
aiming for mastery.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Yeah, for sure it was hard, right Like I never did
anything.
And just so you know, hardright like I never did anything.
And just so you know, I myfirst fighting game was street
fighter 2 and mortal combat, butthe way of the warrior, I just
sent you the the trailer for itand discord it came.
That's the one where it reallycemented.
I like fighting games, but whatdid me versus street fighter 2,
(08:43):
turbo and mortal combat wasmortal combat was more realistic
, like the move set was real,like yeah, they still have their
special moves, but like it feltreal and that was the art style
that they chose to do.
Everything was based off ofreal people and like all the
little cameras on them Back inmotion capture back then, where
(09:08):
Street Fighter is all animation.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Yeah, it's like a cartoon animation versus.
They actually did soundstagerecording and having the pads
and stuff and have the actorsactually do the jumping moves,
land on the pads so they don'tget injured.
Do the jumping moves land onthe pads so they don't get
injured and then take the bestshots and then string those
together on the frame of thecharacters in game.
(09:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah, and then the genre just grew from there and
I'm sure there's people outthere screaming at us saying
there was this game and thatgame, but really for me it was
Mortal Kombat, street streetfighter 2, turbo, and then this
way of the warrior.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Then also there were all of the kind of clones of
mortal kombat 3.
You get killer instinct, youget primal rage you got.
Then you got other remixingwhat fighting games are like
Virtua Fighter and Soul Caliburand Tekken Soul Calibur.
(10:08):
I love Soul Calibur so much.
In fact, my favorite SoulCalibur I can't play right now
no, it's four because it hasDarth Vader in it and his throw
is the Emperor throw, where youmake it so your back is to the
edge of the arena, hit them witha throw and he just picks them
(10:30):
up and throws them like emperorpalpatine in return of the jedi
spoilers.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Wait, so you can't you can't play soul caliber.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
No, because it's a PS3 game and because of
licensing, it has Starkiller,yoda and Darth Vader in it and
whenever fighting games have alicense like that's time limited
, it becomes really hard for thegame to ever get re-released or
played on a new console.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Oh, so it's not backwards compatible, correct?
Speaker 1 (11:11):
And do you still have your PS3?
If I wanted to go try to digout the PS3 and hook it up just
to play Soul Calibur 4, then,yes, I could play Soul Calibur 4
.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
All right, because sometimes just saying that
that's what you gotta do yeah,just sometimes you gotta turn it
on, let it update for 17 hoursand just play it because just
for the nostalgia.
But you know, updates are theworst but you could come oh,
it's the truth.
You could come back also andsay that mortal kombat and
(11:40):
street fighter paved the waywhere Street Fighter was there
before Mortal Kombat.
But I feel like Mortal Kombatgot so much publicity because of
the blood and the gore that itskyrocketed the fighting game
industry, because I rememberplaying Mortal Kombat 2 in the
arcade like my mom would go tothe mall and say here's 10 bucks
(12:02):
, I'll be back in an hour.
And I was at an arcade and Iwould play Mortal Kombat two and
I got so good that I wouldn'tlose.
Come back and I'd still have 10bucks or $9 and 75, actually $9
because I would get a dollar'sworth of quarters but that it
really skyrocketed, like all ofthose games.
(12:23):
Like you said, primal Rage Iforgot about that game until you
mentioned it.
And it was good.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
It really was.
All these games had thingsabout them that were unique
twists, but Mortal Kombat hasfinishers right, the fatalities,
friendships, babalities,animalities, just all the
different ways that you canreally stick it to the person
that I just beat you, and thatwas a big thing.
(12:50):
I remember still the emotionalenergy of I've only publicly
done fatalities in arcades tolike five people in my life
because most of the time Iwasn't playing multiplayer, I
was trying to climb the ladderagainst the game.
But these arcade cabinets havetwo sets of control sticks and
(13:14):
buttons and you can both putyour quarters in at the same
time, fight each other, and whenyou fatality somebody and do
these like mythological powermoves to blow them up, it's.
It's like the biggest show oftrash talk in gamer life that I
can even imagine you do?
Speaker 2 (13:37):
you have you ever watched break dancers dance?
Yeah, and they like battle andwhen they're done with their
battle, they cross their arms.
Yeah, that's what I feel like.
If you're in an arcade or youget to do a fatality at somebody
, or even if, like I was at yourhouse and and I did a fatality
to you, I would be like cross myarms, be like sup.
(13:57):
Doc, how you feeling right now?
Speaker 1 (13:59):
you just got eaten.
Yeah, shut up, marcus.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
I'm talking about?
Yeah, but you're right though,because I'm looking at the.
I typed in Google 1990sfighting games.
Do you remember Clay Fighter?
I?
Speaker 1 (14:14):
don't.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Okay, google that.
Clay Fighter, the mostwell-known game, that fighting
game that pushed the boundariesof teenage boys.
What was that fighting game,doc, dead or alive yes, where
they introduced the what wouldyou call that jiggle physics?
The jiggle physics, yeah, andthere was so much hype around it
(14:41):
.
And then they, but it was justfor the jiggle.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Yeah, but actually Dead or Alive is a good fighting
game.
It has a very different take onhow buttons and throws cancel
each other out like paperscissors, rock Whereas the other
ones, like Mortal Kombat andStreet Fighter, are very
combo-based and you don't reallycancel as much.
(15:06):
So when I say cancel for peoplewho maybe don't play as many
fighting games, a cancel iswhere you start moving into one
move and then do a buttonsequence that changes what
you're doing in the middle ofthe animation.
And Dead or Alive does this too, but they do it in terms of if
(15:28):
someone's hitting you with atriangle and you hit circle,
that'll cancel, but if you hitsquare, their triangle will beat
your square.
So it's like rock, paperscissors shoot yeah.
Street Fighter is more aboutmanaging meters and using moves
and super moves to support yourcombos and control where your
(15:50):
opponent is on the stage, sothey can't move.
Basically Like that, all theycan do is get hit by you.
And Mortal Kombat is very muchabout combos and special moves
and juggles.
So you want to keep the personpopping through the air, getting
hit by your fists and kicks,and so they all have the same
(16:12):
setup one versus one, leftperson facing right person
health bars at the top.
But then once it says fight,they're all completely different
games.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Right, it says fight they're all completely different
games, right?
Yeah, it's, and then.
And then you throw in when theyadded blocking blocking's been.
Oh yeah but I mean, when itreally became like mortal combat
3 for me changed it because youcould start doing combos.
It wasn't just punch punch kick, it was punch punch, kick,
(16:49):
sweep.
And you had to learn how to usethat block button in order to
be victorious and run.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Mortal kombat 3 added run.
That's true.
That was a really big change tothe speed of the matches and
the speed of how much you neededto think fast Because Mortal
Kombat 2 had a slow flow to itthat you could watch and predict
(17:17):
and execute.
Mortal Kombat 3 was so muchmore chaotic because of the run
button.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
And then you could uppercut somebody through the
ceilings.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
That's true too, but that was just flashy fun.
Yeah, the Mortal Kombatinnovations over the years.
I think that is easily myfavorite fighting franchise.
And then Soul Calibur and thenStreet Fighter.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Yeah, it's hard for me not to pick Mortal Kombat
just because I feel like I'm themost attached to that, because
I spent so much time playing it,and I think it's because of the
finishing move.
Like you fight in StreetFighter and you just fight until
the meter's gone, but in MortalKombat you fight and then you
(18:06):
see finish him and you're like,oh shit, I won.
I'm ending this right now.
Yeah, it's over when in StreetFighter or these other games,
you're just you fight and thenyou hit them and they're down
and they say round one.
You don't feel it doesn't feellike a final fight.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
I was.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Well, that's another fighting game.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Final fight.
Yeah, while you were describingthat, marcus, I was thinking
about all the times I fatalityto another player in public.
And there's one that I have totell you, live microphones
recording, because it's probablynot my proudest moment as a
counselor.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
It's got to be good.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Oh no, it's so good.
It also is my proudest momentas a counselor.
There was a field trip at myfirst counseling agency
counseling agency.
We took the clients out to getGolden Corral for a special
lunch.
Sure, you know, being in theprogram for a certain amount of
time, you get to go get lunch.
(19:12):
Three clinicians field trip.
That Golden Corral had MortalKombat 4.
And I remember playing and oneof the clients being like, oh
Daniel, you play Mortal Kombat.
No way, I love this game.
I was like, yeah, mortalKombat's my favorite and I was
playing as Raiden Uh-huh.
(19:32):
And so he put in quarters tooand interrupted my attempt to
climb the ladder and defeat Goroand Shinnok and become Mortal
Kombat champion.
He wanted the smoke and we.
We fought.
I won round one, I flawlessvictory round two and I fatality
.
The client blew him up with thelightning.
(19:56):
Uh, picked him up withlightning and zapped him until
he exploded.
Nice, and I guess, looking backon it, if I would have been
more mature as a counselor, Iwould have thought about the
treatment efficacy of if I letthem win or make it a little bit
competitive, but allow them towin, then they get like a life
(20:17):
lesson of how good it feels toput yourself out there and be
social and game with people, buton the other hand he put those
quarters into that machine inthe middle of my game.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yes, he said I want it, yeah, and you got it.
No, you don't, yeah.
Yeah, you said no, you don't.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Hey, I'm too competitive everybody.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Dude, what are you wearing on your head?
So sidebar for everybody.
I had to run upstairs.
I had a little bit of kid dramagoing on.
So I come back and doc iswearing a raiden hat for the
people listening on all thepodcast stuff.
But anyway, but I've beenthinking while I ran upstairs
(21:01):
consciously, subconsciously,whatever that when you put a
quarter into an arcade machine,you're saying it's go time, mofo
.
You need to know that person onthe other end, whether it's
your mom, your uncle, your dad,your brother or a client,
(21:21):
there's a 50 percent chanceyou're going to get your ass
whooped.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, that's true, it is 50 50 cause it's one versus
one.
Mortal combat is quite possiblyone of the reasons that I think
about video games sophilosophically as well, and it
all has to do with one blackscreen with white letters.
Marcus, do you know what thosewhite letters said?
(21:47):
No, there is no knowledge.
That is not power.
Ooh, that is how Mortal Kombat3 starts, and I was all about
Mortal Kombat 3.
I was doing Taekwondo becauseof Mortal Kombat for the entire
elementary school of my life,and so when that came out, I was
(22:13):
starting to get into learningsome really fun moves and
learning Like it was part of mylifestyle.
Yeah, for it to have the basictraits of Taekwondo, yeah, yeah,
eight, nine, 10 years oldsomewhere in there.
(22:43):
And so for me to pick up on aphilosophical life lesson and
connect it to my love of martialarts and like all the other
things I liked that were martialarts like three ninjas and
power rangers and teenage mutantninja turtles and for it to say
there is no knowledge that isnot power.
It really explains parts of methat still help me get through
(23:06):
stuff, that help me earn a PhDand be very good at school,
where you acquire knowledge andyou develop them into skills,
and fighting games are aboutseeking out knowledge and
turning them into skill.
Unfortunately, a lot of verypowerful and influential people
(23:26):
going back 30 and 40 years havebeen distracted by the violence
of fighting games and that's allthey see.
And that's why we have the esrbuh rating system, because we
have to be able to identify thatMortal Kombat is rated M for
mature Right and so it was verypolarizing in the early 90s,
(23:50):
this video game with thisviolence and these actors and
their heads getting popped offand bodies exploded and there's
red pixels on the screen that'ssupposed to be blood, and how
can kids be into this?
This is the end of society, Itell you.
Till grand theft auto three,that was about 10 more years in
the future.
But yeah, so you get past allof that violent coat of paint
(24:16):
and what you actually have areget your person in fist range
and hit square, square, triangle, circle, and then down in
triangle and then down towards X, and then it'll say finish him.
And then it's down down towardback circle and you turn to a
(24:40):
dragon and you bite them andthat's the end.
Right?
But it's all about memorizationin sequences that you can call
up in real time as reactions towhat's attacking you and then,
if you have memorized enoughthings and you apply them
correctly, and you apply themcorrectly, you win.
(25:01):
And actually that right there,I was actually describing how I
got through college, not how Iplay fighting games.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Ha, but the distinct thing about fighting games is
each one is a little different,right?
Do you remember King of theMonsters?
I do not remember King of theMonsters, Okay that was like you
were monsters fighting incities and you're walking
through streets stepping on cars.
I think that was Super Nintendoor Sega, maybe Sega Genesis, I
(25:33):
can't remember.
But then do you rememberBushido Blade?
Nope For the PlayStation 1?
.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Nope.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
I never had a PlayStation 1.
That whole thing.
Right there I was playing N64.
And so there's so many verypopular games for PS1 that I
just missed.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
You should get a PS1.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Can't you just play most of those games as PS
Classics?
Speaker 2 (26:01):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
PlayStation Plus.
Now, I don't know, it's allabout me having a title and
going and seeking it out.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Yeah, so, but then the next, I would say for me,
another game that shapedfighting games in a new way and
brought a new flair to it wasthe Tekken series, because that
was basically, you know, karateI'm going to say martial arts, I
shouldn't just say karate, butthere was different styles of
(26:28):
martial arts and it was amartial arts game.
Right, it wasn't like fantasyfighting, it was actual, like
Kung Fu versus Taekwondo, and ittook it for me, it took me by
storm, I actually fell in lovewith it.
Out of all the fighting games,I would say street fighter is
(26:49):
probably my least out of the bigones, my least favorite, okay,
but tekken is my solid two.
That and soul caliber, butreally tekken, because the
fighting styles were so smoothand it felt natural Like you're
going into a fighting tournamentor you're fighting somebody,
like there's a good chanceyou're in, like I do boxing, but
(27:12):
I come up against you who doesKung Fu, like you don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Probably come up on me playing as the kangaroo.
Yeah, that's all.
While you were going throughsome of those other games, you
peaked a curiosity in me that Iwas wondering did these games
make it into the gamer's journey?
And because I know mortalkombat did, because I talked
about there is no knowledge,that is not power yes street
(27:39):
fighter.
I did evo moment number numberit is 42 or 37 or something.
That moment lives on in my mindforever, even though I don't
remember the number.
That was Justin Wong versusDaigo Umehara and that was
(27:59):
Chun-Li versus Ken in theperfect and that was Chun-Li
versus Ken in the perfect blockof the ultra move.
That's just such intensepractice.
To be able to pull that offlive in a match with all those
people in the room that's insane.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yeah it.
And then moving past the basicsof the fighting games, not the
basics like the originals, rightwhen the playstation 3 and the
xbox 360 came out, and when thexbox 360 had xbox live, it
(28:41):
changed it because now you coulddo your fighting favorite
fighting games against theinternet.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
I hate playing fighting games with the internet
, marcus.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
We'll get good.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
No, I don't want to get good at an internet level.
Okay, so here's the thing Ihave had to wrestle with the
realization, since the internetbecame part of every fighting
game, that I have never beengood at fighting games.
My entire life I've neveractually been good at them, even
the ones I love, like mortalkombat 2 yeah, I was never good.
(29:17):
I was just better than everyonethat I came across in illinois
and iowa.
As a kid problem is, I neverplayed against kids that played
like nine hours a day and livedin new york, right like I never
played against people in japanthat just understand this stuff
(29:41):
perfectly because it's part oftheir DNA, sure, right.
And so I remember the first gamethat was a fighting game that
had all this internet stuff andtrophies connected to online
play.
Trophies are achievements thatyou earn that force you to do
(30:01):
things that maybe you wouldn'tnormally do, but because it's on
the list, you want to try it.
It was a Mortal Kombat game andit was on PS 3 or 4, so it
might have been Mortal Kombat 9.
I don't remember I lost so badall afternoon trying to get one
(30:22):
victory the very easiest trophyto get for online play and it
was very hard for me to find oneperson that I could beat, and
then I realized, oh my gosh,I've never been good at this.
I just was better than peoplewho are worse than me.
And it changed.
(30:43):
I still enjoy playing fightinggames, but when I buy them,
there is no part of me that islooking at actually playing the
online content.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Sure, oh, I agree I was the same way, but for me it
was.
I got to play mortal combatwith my friends, or a fighting
game tech and or whatever withfriends that weren't at my house
Right.
Oh, now you like I'll scrollthrough like tick tock or well,
(31:19):
that like Twitter or whateverwherever, and they have these
people playing like MortalKombat 1.
And the way they're moving andlike their move sets and how
fluid it is, I would be likedead in one second.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
That's what I kept being up against is just people
that knew their characteralready.
I just turned the game on forthe first time 15 minutes ago.
Right, and that's a tough thingtoo.
And even if you have a gamethat has skill-based matchmaking
, it doesn't usually work,because by adding a game to your
(31:58):
lifestyle lifestyle you willinevitably be better than any
game that I pick up mycontroller and dabble in.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Skill-based matchmaking is if you log in and
you win your first match andyou win your second match,
they're like this guy's good andnow we're going to put him
against the next tier of peoplewhen, believe it or not.
Okay, so now it's a challenge.
And you lose a couple, win acouple, then you go on a hot
streak and you win three in arow.
Then they move you to the nextlevel and you're just getting
(32:32):
destroyed and it becomes meh, atsome point you have to start
practicing your craft.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
And if you don't want to get kicked down to that
lower tier and if you want tohave an afternoon where you
don't want to get kicked down tothat lower tier, and if you
want to have an afternoon whereyou don't have to deal with
losing 20 matches in a row, youhave to learn how to play better
.
And there's two things fromfighting games that I have
learned.
That I actually experienced onmy stream today, where I was not
(32:58):
playing a fighting game.
But that first thing is bosseshave the advantage because you
do not damage them with one ofyour hits as much as they damage
you with one of their hits,okay.
And then the other thing is youjust need to get a little bit
(33:22):
lucky in order to beat them,because they can read your moves
, it seems, and you are notmeant to beat them on the first
try, right, right.
So those boss characters likein Mortal Kombat, shang Tsung or
Shao Kahn, in Street Fighterit's M Bison.
(33:47):
I think all the early ones was mbison, maybe sagat in street
fighter one he was like thenumber two, okay, and then, yeah
, like the bosses are iconiccharacters and you get hit by
them once 20% of your health baris gone.
You hit them once with a punch,they still have 99.2% of their
(34:09):
health left.
You have to really be careful.
You have to master yourcharacter.
You have to avoid all damageand you have to expect that this
is meant to be a long fight foryou to inch them towards their
own defeat.
They can blast you right intoyour defeat.
(34:30):
Right and I was doing a bossfight in final fantasy 7 rebirth
.
That was a one-on-one fight.
It's just me playing cloudversus president rufus and you
can't take on any time a videogame has you take on a president
or a god.
You know that there's going tobe some cheating game
(34:51):
programming shenanigans builtinto the fight because they're
trying to teach you a lesson.
And President Rufus isinvulnerable to all the things.
He hits you.
You lose a thousand health whenyou only have 6,000.
You hit him, he's invulnerable.
You have to break his blockgauge and stagger him just so
(35:12):
that he takes some damage.
And I was not successful on mystream, Marcus, so two hours
stream, I did not beat him.
I'm playing on dynamicdifficulty and that boss feels
like a fighting game boss fromor a boss from Elden Ring.
My chat was commenting likewhen did Final Fantasy VII
Rebirth become Elden Ring?
Speaker 2 (35:35):
But you're playing it on the hardest setting and you
should have a boss.
That is that hard, but that wasgoing to be.
My next question is talkingabout bosses.
That is that hard, but that wasgoing to be.
My next question is talkingabout bosses.
I actually think that EldenRing is a form of a fighting
game.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
That's what I was saying with the transition to
rebirth.
Yes, absolutely.
It's not left and right, it'snot a 2D battlefield, but it is
a fighting game.
You have two characters withhealth bars and you fight until
(36:11):
you live or you die, and I thinkactually Elden Ring, because it
has so many different bossesand so many different mechanics.
It's actually a reallyfascinating game if you can
start thinking about it likeit's a fighting game yeah but
(36:34):
you know what Research hasactually commented on, why video
games might actually be goodthings for people to study and
get into.
I got to hear this yeah, so oneof the things I'm really big
about is shifting people out ofa problem focused mindset, and I
make this mistake myself allthe time.
(36:56):
It is so easy to look at thelast five things that you came
up short and then only rememberthose things and you have been
wasting years and years of yourlife and you'll never amount to
anything and sad blah, blah,blah.
But actually you want to switchto a mindset that is much
better suited for video gamesand actually works much better
(37:17):
in life too, and that's calledgrowth mindset.
Gamers might call thisprogression.
Ok, it's this idea that mystory about President Rufus.
I did not defeat him today.
I did not get his health bar tozero, I did not get the next
scene of the story and I did notget to take Cloud, tifa and
(37:38):
Aerith closer to the endgamegoal, but I did get him down to
50% without using my limit break, and I did get his dog down to
75% before I got shotgun blastedin the back one too many times
and lost.
I got shotgun blasted in theback one too many times and lost
, and even though I didn'tsucceed at the fight, to where I
(38:00):
can move on?
I have a strategy that I'mbuilding in my head.
I understand where my reactiontime needs to get better.
I understand where to becautious and really when to turn
the aggression on, to try topunish the boss for making
mistakes against me, and thatalso is a fighting game.
Term is punishing is when youhave an opening and you can go
(38:23):
in and just blast your opponentwith damage.
That's a punish, at least asmuch as I understand it.
There are people who masterthis stuff and they're rolling
their eyes at me.
I'm trying, though, because Ireally do love these in a casual
way, because I really do lovethese in a casual way.
So growth mindset is this ideathat failures do not define you.
They are a means to improvement, and when you have improved
(38:48):
across certain thresholds, youdo get to move on because you
have grown.
And this is the opposite of alot of society-based situations,
where we're expected to succeedon the first try, and if we
don't, then there's some stigmaattached to this Like you were
lazy, you didn't study, youdidn't take the challenge
seriously, and that's notactually true.
This is what we're afraid ofinside and what we're taught to
(39:11):
believe, but video games aremore about growth mindset.
They are more about.
We made this challengedeliberately hard.
You're not supposed to win itat the first 10 times.
You try even a hundred times.
Millennia blade of mickela inelden ring is a fighting game,
boss fight encounter.
It's one-on-one.
How many people have lost toher a hundred times before they
(39:36):
claim victory?
500, a thousand?
Any people that have lost athousand times to Millennia?
Speaker 2 (39:42):
I haven't gotten to her yet.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Well, I hope, when you do, I get to watch.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
I'm really like I'm enjoying Final Fantasy VII
Remake.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Oh, you started it.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Oh, that's so good I think I'm like three and a half
hours in three and a half yeah,so that's like chapter one,
chapter two.
Oh yeah, for sure, yeah, yeahlike I'm in, like that first
factory, like that's done, andthen I'm in the streets that's
cool.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
How are you liking cloud?
It's good it's.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
It is a lot like elden ring I gotta do, show and
tell marcus for everybody athome.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
He's grabbing his big cloud sword wow, thanks for
pausing on the word big marcusit is.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
He's grabbing his big sword.
Context.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Yeah, if you watched my stream the other day, you saw
this and we did the whole thing.
I went to Megacon last week butthis is the first Megacon that
I didn't present at.
In the last five I had a fouryear streak.
I went laps because I forgot toturn in an application, but I
did go ahead and get a bustersword for my office.
(40:57):
But I did go ahead and get aBuster Sword for my office.
And it is comical when I try toshow my stream because it just
keeps.
It's like the Star Destroyer atthe beginning of A New Hope,
marcus.
It just keeps going.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
See my mind went.
It's the Ron Jeremy of swords.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
Oh my gosh, marcus, what kind of you needed that M
for mature label, as a kid, ofcourse.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
I did, yeah, so I think we have tackled fighting
games and my question is can Ipick the topic for next week?
Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Elden Ring.
All right, let's talk aboutElden Ring.
I'll have to see if we can getsomeone who wrote a chapter in
psychology of Elden Ring to beon the show.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Oh, I can research one of the first authors and ask
them why they all.
I should message them all andask them.
The question would be why wouldyou start it off the same way
every chapter?
Speaker 1 (41:56):
oh man, I can't talk about that.
I only can talk about what mychapter was about.
What?
Speaker 2 (42:01):
it was the final chapter in the book.
It was the ultimate climax I'mthe final boss.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
oh god, yeah, I'm the final boss in my counseling
program and I'm the final bossin four of the five books that
I'm affiliated with.
It's fun.
I like being the end If you'reon a baseball team, which I
never have been, but if you'rethe closer and they bring you
(42:27):
out, it's because your team hasthe lead and you're just
expected to crush the hopes anddreams of the other team right
now.
Finish them.
It's like fighting gamementality to be the closer.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
And with that everybody continue the journey.
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