February 13, 2025 • 58 mins
Our podcast dives deep into the world of gaming, focusing on how it shapes our identities and personal growth. We explore the connections between gameplay experiences and the life lessons that emerge, highlighting Doc’s journey to becoming a Twitch partner and Marcus's engagement with new gaming adventures.
• Discussing Marcus' recent playthrough of Octopath Traveler 2
• Exploring the challenges of Elden Ring and its psychological implications
• Highlighting Doc's achievement of becoming a Twitch partner
• Emphasizing community building through gaming
• Reflecting on the broader narrative of identity in gaming
• Encouraging listeners to leverage gaming experiences for personal growth
If you would like to support the show and help us unlock additional possibilities for future episodes and projects, this can now be done through Patreon!
You can watch us play games LIVE and join our communities to get more connection from every episode:
- DrGameology on Twitch - Continue the Journey LIVE in 2025!!
- MarcusB814 on YouTube - BOOMBA
Subscribe on YouTube for more content on the Psychology of Gaming or Follow on Twitch to catch the Live Streams!
For more info, check out DrGameology.com!
More Links Here!
Thanks for Listening, and Continue The Journey!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Gaming Persona podcast.
This is the show that exploreswho we become when we play games
, whether you're saving kingdoms, leading epic raids or just
vibing in cozy indie worlds.
Join me, dr Gamology and mygood friend Marcus as we search
for all the ways gaming andpersonal growth collide.
Grab your controllers and let'scontinue the journey Now.
(00:21):
Continue the journey now.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
So my gaming week has been a little funky, we're
going to call it so.
Since the last episode, Iactually did a lot of like
in-person things.
I think I played four hockeygames since the last time I saw
you.
But I've been really lazy withthe video games and let me
(00:47):
explain.
And is it lazy?
You're gonna answer it for me.
So I didn't sit at my tv andplay a video game, I was on my
switch and I've been playingoctopath traveler 2 it's that
turn-based jrpg that I wastelling you about like I'm going
through and like building thesquad, because you know it's
(01:08):
like a four-person team but youhave to go out and recruit all
the recruits and then you canpick your main squad.
I'm gonna pull out this guy,but I'm gonna put this girl in
blah blah, blah.
So I've been doing that.
So it's basically like all oftheir intro quests I think I got
six of them done and they'reall so good in their own way,
(01:31):
like this one.
The main character, hakari.
He's like your traditionalwarrior perfect class.
For me.
He's gonna be my main when he'sall about swinging a sword and
doing damage, okay, and hisstory is your typical samurai
kind of destiny guy the fatheris old, the brother is like the
(01:53):
head of the army.
But then there's Hikari, who islike nice to the people and
he's just a good person and he'sstill a fierce warrior, but
he's not like his brother, whojust wants war everywhere.
And the father decides thathakari should be the king.
Well, the son doesn't like thatand offs the dad.
(02:16):
Oh no, and.
And hakari isn't strong enoughto defeat his brother right now,
so he goes on his quest to getstronger, so then he can take
the land back from his brother.
So I started that and likeimmediately, and now I haven't
played a turn-based rt rpg.
(02:37):
I can't even tell you the lastone really like, yeah, like I
don't play turn nah, I'm notlike I've no matter how many
times I've tried.
I've never played a persona game, um, like maybe it was final
fantasy.
8 or 9 was the last turn-basedgame that's 20 to 30 years ago,
(02:58):
correct?
wow, so this is not your genreno, it's not, and I'm completely
hooked on.
You were talking about likethat save lock where you save
your spot and you can't doanything about it.
I actually did that and Iactually reverted back to before
I collected the next characterand started that save again and
(03:18):
then deleted the others becauseI didn't do enough of so each
character has a job it can do.
Because I didn't do enough of,so each character has a job it
can do Like one can steal, onecan persuade with information to
get information, stuff likethat, and I didn't do enough of
it.
So I feel like, if you don't doenough of it in your intro area
, hurt yourself for the maingame.
I see.
So I've been like legit, I'veput like 12 hours into this game
(03:43):
this week.
Wow, like out of nowhere I goin bed and I like just explore
and fight a couple of fights andthen I pass out or like just
don't tell my work, I've beenbringing it to work and if I
have downtime at work I justpull it out and do a couple of
battles to level up and you knowwhat.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
But it's not on company time, it's just I'm
enjoying the game so much, butit's been so cold here.
When I leave my Switch in thevan and I turn it on, the thing
is like an icebox.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Does it still work?
Yeah, okay, because if you'regoing to tell me it's that bad,
I was going to say there is aplace you could live where that
would not happen.
It has its own, floridaida.
I don't know, there's probablybetter states that you could
pick florida's the best.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Who doesn't want palm trees and the coast?
Speaker 1 (04:36):
let the record reflect that I do not agree with
what my co-host just said.
That's really cool, though,that you found a new genre and a
new way to play a game thatstill gives you a story and
characters that feel compellingto you, and you want to keep
leveling them up and buildingthem up to be your squad, and
it's hard?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
I don't.
I'm a terrible turn-based gamerbecause I I don't use the spell
to boost everybody's attackpower, I just attack and you
can't just do that.
You know what I mean.
And as you're fighting likethese things and you're like
dude, I'm annihilating them andthen they just destroy you
because you didn't boost therest of your team.
You're just, I'm just liketrying to power through and you
(05:19):
can't.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
It's like that meme you can see with different anime
characters and stuff onInstagram where it's eight year
old me, would you like to use amove that doesn't take down HP?
No, exactly.
Yeah, you look at your Pokemon.
(05:48):
Traditionally each Pokemon gameis a turn based attack kind of
game and 12 year old me wouldhave my six pokemon in my party
and all of them just have fourattack moves and then you can
win pokemon games that way.
But when you get a japanesestyle role-playing game that has
turn-based combat and you'replaying on a higher difficulty,
like in Persona or MetaphorRefantasio, you have to play
strategically.
You can't just go in and do awholly extreme attack to every
(06:14):
enemy and expect to win thatmatch, because sooner or later
they're going to have a counterfor that or it's going to be
reduced damage or even reflectthe damage back at you.
And you're done because youhave no strategy.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
So you and I are speaking the same language.
It's just a new way of thinkingand I think I don't want to say
it's because I'm old, but Ijust think that I'm enjoying
taking some time because it'sthe complete opposite of an
elden Ring, where the second youturn on Elden Ring, there is no
calm.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yeah, debatable.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
I think there are moments of calm, maybe when
you're exploring, riding yourhorse, your noble steed through
Limgrave, sure, but there's notreally any Once you're through
Lindell.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
There's really no calm to that game If you have
the right meditation andmindfulness skills, any game can
be calm.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Well, that game is stressful, from the moment I
click play until the moment itturns off.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
At least you enjoy all the games that you purposely
stress yourself out with well,elden ring is the greatest game
ever made.
It's just that I don't know,can that be our topic?
Can we just like swap topicsand take that for an hour and
just spar back and forth?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
well, of course, everybody's gonna have their own
opinion, but when you thinkabout a game games that have an
incredible story, incredibleside quests, the most vast open
world you could ever be in thecombat is incredible.
Every aspect of the game can beleveled up and made stronger,
(08:02):
better and whatever.
That's Elden ring.
Yeah, there's nothing that hasever been made in my opinion and
I've played a lot of games thatis more thought out than this
game.
But give an example, I just be.
And when I did, I I don't knowwhat made me go back, but I went
(08:23):
back to Stormvale Castle, towhere I killed what was his name
?
Godric or Godric, oh Godric andI ran into the room and there
was an NPC there.
They were like oh hey, thanksfor coming back to the castle.
You finished the quest, youkilled the Lindell stuff, thanks
.
I'm going to go chill, butbefore I go, here's something
(08:47):
freaking epic.
And I was like what, how doesthat even happen?
Where you show up to anotherspot and this person's dying and
like he talks to you and you godo one thing for him and the
game is just Wow.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
And those characters do not have little flashy
markers on top of their headlike if it was an MMO Nope,
which.
There's nothing signaling toyou that this conversation is
going to be significant.
You have to listen to what theysay and remember it, or take a
note, and that is why thediscoverable features in the
(09:26):
world of Elden Ring are soimmersive, because it doesn't
baby you like you're playing avideo game, it's.
You're living in this world.
You better pay attention, right, or it's going to be very
painful, right.
And also, my ego is going toget into this here when you say
that's the greatest game evermade, and I'm actually OK with
(09:49):
that now.
But do you want to know why,marcus?
Of course I do, because I wrotea chapter in the psychology of
Elden Ring and if there's evergoing to be the best game ever
made, I'm going to be in thatbook writing about it.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
So it is the greatest game of all time because you
wrote the final chapter in thatbook.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yes, I am the Omega Statement on the Elden Ring and
also if there is ever a gamethat's better than Elden Ring.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
I'll write a chapter for that game as well.
I just wrote my review for thatbook on Amazon.
What?
And I gave it four stars.
Oh no, the only reason why isbecause the editor did not
notify every single author thatthey didn't need to start every
single chapter with explainingto the world what Elden Ring was
.
Whoever wrote the first chaptershould have just said hey, this
(10:42):
is Elden Ring and everybodyelse should have just built off
of it.
But every single author goesinto it and goes you're a
tarnished and you're startingout in the lands between blah,
blah, blah.
It was the same first page inevery chapter.
That's the only reason why Igot four stars.
Okay, but the last chapter wasepic.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Thank you.
None of us collaborate whenwe're writing our chapters in a
book that's designed that way.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
But maybe the person that's at the head of the table
should notify people that, hey,this is a continuous book.
Maybe everybody shouldn'texplain to people what Tarnished
are.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Then you've done over Right.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
That's the only reason why I got a four.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
I'm racking my brain now.
Did I write my chapter that waytoo?
Yes, you did also.
I didn't know.
We don't even know whatsequence we are going to be in
the book.
It's like christmas morningnews update when the book
finally gets to your mailbox.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Let me ask you a question If you're hiring an
editor to just go through thebook and organize the book right
, wouldn't you send okay?
Hey, doc, you're chapter 10,take out.
I don't need you to explainwhat the tarnished are by
chapter 10, everybody knows whatthe tarnished is.
Adjust your story.
(12:03):
You know what I mean.
It's an easy thing to make thereading better for your consumer
.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Even better, you don't even have to ask the
author.
There is an entire section ofmy Psychology of Pokemon chapter
that nobody has ever gotten toread and I included it at
Orlando Nerd Night when I did apanel talk about my chapter and
I told them you are the onlypeople that are ever going to
know that this content was meantto be in the book.
(12:40):
It was a really fascinatingneuroscience study where they
put the connectors on differentareas of a person's brain and
can predict which starter theyare going to pick before they
play the game with over 99%accuracy for Charmander and
(13:01):
Squirtle and in the 90% ofaccuracy for Bulbasaur.
And I wrote at least a pageabout this and it got cut.
It never made it into the book.
So if you have that kind ofpower, you can just delete
sentences and make sure the flowstill works.
But I'm the writer up to thispoint, not the editor.
(13:23):
So I got to stay in my lane.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Okay, egos aside, moving on about Elden Ring, I'm
going to play this byplay-by-play.
So the other day I'm justhanging out, I'm working, doing
something I don't remember whatthe hell I was doing and I get
this message and it's Doc's andit's a screenshot of his channel
.
It's got the check mark next toit.
(13:47):
I fucking threw my phone in theair.
I think it was in the air likeeight feet smashed to the ground
.
I was like, oh my god.
So dr gamology is now a twitchpartner and I went fucking
bananas for him and I know hewent during that process sending
that that to me.
It was probably like a littlelike schoolgirl from the
(14:07):
personas thing.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
My my thumb was shaking trying to get the words
out.
It was insane.
And also it was like six in themorning too.
I got that email at 930 pm thenight before.
But get this I fell asleep at9.15 pm the night before, so I
(14:31):
woke up at 5, like I always doon weekdays.
I made my coffee, I'm sittingon the couch, I'm checking my
notifications and making sure Ididn't fall behind on threads
and blue sky and Twitter andInstagram sky.
Blue sky is a Twitteralternative for people who are
(14:51):
politically upset with thepeople who own Twitter, so it's
just a Twitter.
Yeah, it's yeah, it looksexactly the same as Twitter used
to look before it was bought,and they did like the X re
theming to try and make itsleeker, but actually it's not
(15:12):
sleeker.
Everything just goes transparentuntil you scroll.
Anyway, I'm not not a fananyway.
So I got done with all thesocial media apps and then I
decided to check my email and Ihad been checking my email,
marcus, about 50 times a day forthe last nine days, and the
reason is this was my third timeapplying for Twitch partner
(15:38):
since I completed the Twitchachievement called Path to
Partner, and so what that meanswhen you're a content creator
and you're doing streaming onTwitch for people who don't know
, this achievement is the firstgatekeeper between you becoming
a Twitch partner and remaining aTwitch affiliate, and those are
(15:59):
the two levels of people thatare able to basically treat
Twitch like it's a career, ifyou want to.
And so the first two times Iapplied, they rejected my
application in 48 hours bothtimes, and they tell you when
(16:20):
you apply it seven to 10 daysturnaround.
So when I applied the thirdtime, and they give you an
explanation like here's whatwe're seeing in your channel.
We like your enthusiasm, we likewhat your community is doing.
We want to see more of this.
We want to see if you canmaintain this.
They set goals.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
They just wanted you to be a fly by night person, and
then they give it to you andthen you have five people
watching your street exactly so.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
It's a business both months.
You have to wait 30 days toapply again as well.
Actually 28, 30, right?
So I was expecting anotherrejection email for my january
application.
It was becoming a monthly thing, uh, november, december,
january and I was expectingabout January 15th for them to
(17:09):
tell me no again and give me anew goal.
And it never came.
And instead of me feeling goodabout that, my brain was like oh
no, you just got to keepchecking your email impulsively
the entire rest of the week.
No, you just got to keepchecking your email impulsively
the entire rest of the week.
And it's so ironic, marcus,that the time I fall asleep
early is when they send theemail.
(17:30):
It is the best.
And they totally did the thingI'm always talking about with
time zones, because I do a lotof work in all the different
time zones of the US andsometimes it affects how I do my
job.
My one of my main roles is basedin Arizona, and so I have to do
(17:52):
things in a calculated waybased on Arizona time.
And I got this email veryclearly 630 pm California time,
probably OK.
930 pm florida time.
So I woke up, I saw it and mybrain?
I was awake, I was drinking mycoffee, I had tears of the
(18:14):
kingdom turned on.
I was about to start runningaround and find shrines until
it's time to wake up my son forschool.
And I saw the email and I waslike, okay, I got a email from
the Twitch partner department.
I've seen emails from them toother times.
What do they want me to do thistime?
(18:34):
And I opened it and I saw thepicture and we all know the
picture because of social media.
Like when people put thatpicture on their feed and say we
did it, guys.
Everybody who creates contentknows that cartoon of the wizard
girl with the bird flying awayand that picture was in my email
(18:56):
.
I didn't even see the words,marcus, I just was like holy
shit, like they sent me thepicture of the witch girl.
So just really big moment for meand for my message and and for
being able to talk with peopleabout what the gamer's journey
(19:16):
is live and connect it directlyto different games while we're
doing it.
That's why I stream on Twitchand I didn't always know why I
was streaming on Twitch and Ithink that's why it's so
important that this happened now, because I think it's just so
cool how everything's fittingtogether and people care about
(19:41):
what the gamer's journey is,whether they read the book or
they use different words todescribe it.
By being a gamer and living inthis world, we're looking for
something, we're trying to havesomething alive inside us, and
video games can let us have that.
We just can't always put itinto words, and so the reason I
(20:01):
stream and talk about this stuffthe way I do is so that people
can find their own words forwhat they get when they play
their favorite games.
So I'm just so excited for whatthe future has.
It really is going to help meshare the message of my book.
Talk about what KindBridge doesand what I do for counselors and
mental health professionalsusing video games, for
(20:24):
counselors and mental healthprofessionals using video games,
and the sky is the limit.
Now, marcus, it's like the endof a very frustrating journey,
because it took me seven yearsto really figure out what I
needed to get here.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
But you know, when you walk through another door,
there's another hallway andanother place to go, so there's
a couple of things I can say,and it may not be sound like
it's the I look at.
The journey as an affiliate isa journey to find out when you
(21:03):
hit partner, you have found out.
When you hit partner, you havefound out who you are as a
creator, because you've made itto that point and now it's time
to hone your craft and continue,whatever that craft may be that
sets you apart than everybodyelse, because, doc, you're not
(21:23):
the guy that's screaming, raging, doing all that stuff.
You're talking about all thegames and what they make you
feel and how they do things tomess with your head, to end the
games and you bring a differentmessage than anybody else out
there.
We said this seven years ago andyou know, you left Twitch for a
(21:45):
little while and you focused onYouTube and you achieved
YouTube partner, and that wasjust a small step.
And then you realize that therewere so many extra things you
could do while streaming thatcan appeal to all of the people
in your world, whether they're,you know, other docs or people
(22:08):
from the universities, or peoplethat read your studies, or just
gamers or students.
And it has all culminated tothis moment to where it's okay,
you're a doctor of gameology,you're a Twitch partner, now
it's time to get to work.
Again, you walk through the newhallway and now this is a long
(22:30):
hallway and now you've got tofigure out.
Okay, what's the next step?
Is it monetization?
Is it building, gettingpartners or sponsors to sponsor
the channel for you to partnerwith?
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
I'm just looking at this yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
General voice visions where they just what's a X
system and you already have theawesome backing of Cambridge
behind you and the awesome workthey're doing.
So the you have so manypositives.
It's just time to really focuson those and push forward and
set those goals for the nextstep.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah, the really big thing, like we're not having
this conversation without thisone change in my perspective,
and it came in July.
I did a keynote presentation atGeekEdCon.
I was talking about the gamer'sjourney as a therapeutic tool
to use mythology and video gamesto help people find their path
(23:31):
through their therapy, andreally fun talk, met a lot of
good people.
The room was into it and thatevent is where I started telling
people point blank, as directas I could.
People point blank, as directas I could.
I am streaming on Twitch Sunday, monday, thursday.
(23:52):
The goal is, if you're sittingat home doing any kind of work,
for you to get your coffee, sitthere, have me on the background
, talk with me.
I'm there to talk about thispresentation in different ways.
Whatever game I'm playing, Iwant to see you there, even if
you can't chat, even if youcan't pay your full attention.
And then I started bringing myLinkedIn people in.
(24:15):
I started making sure to dosocial media a little bit more
responsibly and make sure peopleknew when I'm going to do this,
because you know people comewatch if they know you're doing
something cool.
If you keep it to yourself, noone's going to be there.
I was so bad about that in 2023.
But, marcus, thank you so muchalso for all the conversations
(24:39):
where you would just challengeme to focus on what I can do
right now.
Focus on the small steps, don'tworry about the big steps.
So many times you told me don'tworry about partner, worry
about building your community,worry about honing your craft
Schedule.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Like that was the biggest thing you need to pick
the days you're doing it.
Whatever those times are, I telleverybody.
If you're so where, listen, Idid it.
I never achieved partner, butthe one thing that I did have
was a wonderful community thatsurrounded myself and the
podcast and the stream channel.
And the one thing that Iunderstand is I look at
(25:20):
everything as a business.
It's just who I am and I'vealways told Doc and everybody
else if you're going to do this,you set a schedule and you're
married to that schedule, nomatter what that schedule is
your life.
I can't tell you how many timesmy wife wanted to go out to
dinner and I was like no, I haveto stream because you're
(25:43):
married to those times.
I'm switching to the mornings.
Doc is not a night owl.
I am, by the time we're done,hanging out doing the podcast.
He's tired and I'm still raringto go.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Because I've been working for 16 hours.
Well, me too.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
But you and I are built different and my time for
me is always at night, where youget your time in the mornings.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
And that's where you being on Arizona time for work
is way better than being stuckin Florida time for work.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Yeah, and then the other things that I do research
teams and stuff.
That's where it gets reallybananas, because, interacting
with people in Australia andEurope consistently, you just
have to be available formeetings that occur at odd times
.
Anyway, the morning time iswhen I could make Twitch work
(26:40):
and treat it like this is anappointment Right, and I'm so
glad that I did that.
I can't believe it, marcus.
That's good, because I promiseI'm so glad that I did that.
I can't believe it, marcus.
That's good, because I promiseI'm telling the truth.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
I can't I can tell you that you can't believe it
because I know you For seven.
Okay, everybody, I'm going togive you guys a little backstory
.
Seven years ago, when I met Doc, he was just a junior.
He was a junior Dr Woodchuck,and he was just a baby and he
wanted to take over the wholeworld.
I want to do this, I want to dothis, I want to do this, I want
(27:13):
to do this and I want to dothis.
And I always was the calm inhis storm of pick.
One thing, dude, one thing at atime.
People are going to find outwho you are.
No, they're not.
It's taking too long.
They're not recognizing me.
Acknowledge me, acknowledge.
And I remember theseconversations from five years
(27:34):
ago, like doc, it's going tohappen one day, and I'll never
forget this day.
Doc called me Marcus, you wereright and I was like hold on the
saw's running in the back.
Doc and I were going to talkfor two hours while I'm working
in my shop and I would like tolet me turn off the saw.
You were right.
What happened?
Oh, my god, the director of xthing, that is, the head of this
(27:59):
, which is the president of thisjust asked me if I marcus.
Do you know how incredible thatis?
Well, it was just a matter oftime.
Why do you have to be right?
And I'll never forget thatconversation with Doc.
So the whole point is and I'mnot here to bash him this has
(28:20):
been a culmination of years ofgrinding to get you to this
point, and this is something youshould hold your head high for,
because not everybody makesTwitch partner, not everybody
makes YouTube partner, noteverybody is recognized by the
regional director of sales atDunder Mifflin.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Junior assistant to the regional manager.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Yeah, it's, it's.
It's a long time coming, friend, and it's about time you got
the recognition you deserve.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
I earned it too, yeah , but you deserve it more than
you earn it.
Okay, I guess we'll let thatslide you work so hard.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
dude, people don't understand you and I.
Our work ethic is the same incomplete different ways.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Different fields, but it's the same mentality.
Yes, we are workers.
It's the Mamba mentality,marcus.
It's Kobe Bryant's wholeapproach to life.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Can I just ask you one question, what?
Who's the greatest basketballplayer ever?
Speaker 1 (29:36):
kobe bryant, larry bird, baby.
No, there, it's, there's.
I did a whole segment aboutkobe this morning on my stream.
I have to support myself no, Iget it.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
But hey, man, congratulations.
If you guys see doc go over totwitchtv, slash dr gamology,
give them a follow, pop in, evenif it's for five minutes, and
if you really want to get them,just drop the text.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Boomba, yeah, he'll know that you heard this, and
I'll know you're one of theMarcus and what we call people
from the capital of Marcusville.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
How about just fans of doc Larry Bird fans?
Speaker 1 (30:23):
All right, we are so deep into this episode and we
have not even started our topic.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Wait we're not talking about that topic tonight
.
That's just not happeningToday's.
A Twitch partner topic I likethat yeah.
Like we're not starting a showafter 33 minutes.
But, Doc, you didn't even tellme what games you played.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Oh my gosh, that's right.
I played Tears of the Kingdom.
I'm actually loving it.
I think it's a better game thanBreath of the.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Wild.
Oh God, Shots fired.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, I just really enjoy the powers that they give
Link.
He has this ridiculous elevatorjump where he goes through the
ceiling and comes out a portalon the other side of the roof.
It's so ridiculous that I loveit.
He also has this in my opinionsomewhat broken ability to just
(31:17):
fuse whatever is sitting on theground with his sword.
You have a broadsword but youhave this pile of rubble and you
just use this magical power andthen you just have two giant
rocks attached to the end ofyour broadsword and now you do
plus seven damage on every swingand it's more durable because
the stones are what's hittingthe enemy instead of the rusted
(31:40):
iron right.
And breaking weapons in breathof the wild was out of control,
annoying and it is annoying intears of the kingdom, but out of
control, annoying and it isannoying in Tears of the Kingdom
, but it feels better and it'sallowing me to enjoy being Link
and also the building things andassembling them to solve the
physics puzzles.
(32:00):
I find that really gratifying.
Every time you assemble thingsjust right and it works, like I
did a shrine this morning whereI had to put a long piece of
wood that was shaped like a batso it's a cylinder.
I had to attach it to a stakeand then shove the stake into
this console that rotates 180degrees and then back the other
(32:24):
direction.
The noise again.
And then back the otherdirection, the noise again.
And so you have to time it sothat you hit the giant boulder
that rolls at you Indiana Jonesstyle and you hit it into a
giant sign on the back left ofthe room, like hitting a home
run.
You have to time the swing sothat it goes in the left
(32:45):
direction, and it's so simple,it's not difficult.
You're assembling a battingcage with your magic right hand
that can float things throughthe air and attach things
together with your mind.
But it's baseball, and justgetting Link to successfully hit
(33:08):
that home run this morning wassuch a cool moment now, are you
playing it docked on your tv oryou with a controller?
yes, okay yeah, and I thinkthat's another big reason why I
like the game more than I didbreath of the wild.
I played breath of the wild inmy old place, which was a
(33:31):
townhome.
I had my office.
I had a short recliner in myoffice that I could sit in and
play handheld stuff and so Iplayed that whole game handheld.
But Tears of the Kingdom Iplayed.
100% of the time that I have hadthat game up has been on my
large TV and that is such a coolway to enjoy the game because
(33:54):
I'm on my couch, I love my couch, have my controller and I'm
just playing it the old way andI really like that.
But that's not the only game Iplayed.
The final two streams that Ihave done before the big Twitch
partner news was I got to playchapter eight of Final Fantasy
seven rebirth on PS five.
(34:15):
It just released today yeah,dead on Steam and I did download
it on my Steam deck.
I have not opened it andstarted playing it to see how it
runs, but it is Steam verified,so I'm sure it's great.
And I played final fantasy 14this morning and my paladin is
level 51 doing level 48 missionsalmost done with a realm reborn
(34:39):
and one of my community members, danny, saw that there were not
any healers queuing up for theduty and he came in with the
save this morning and he playedAstrologian for the heals and I
played Paladin and we did afour-man dungeon, and so
community involvement on thestreams.
If you enjoy playing FinalFantasy XIV and you have free
(35:02):
time on Sunday, monday orThursday mornings and I happen
to be playing that MMO on thatparticular day I think I'm going
to do more of that.
It was a really fun way to doit.
Maybe even create a voicechannel to use in discord so
that people can actually havebanter with me and stuff.
I just I really miss sociallyplaying games.
(35:25):
I really do.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Yeah, and that is understandable.
Right getting the social aspectis what I love about gaming.
Which is also what's reallyshocking about playing like
octopath right now is it's solo,and I'm not used to doing that,
and elden ring is solo.
It is really nice when you canplay a social game, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
I miss having a social goal.
This is going to sound insane,Marcus, but do you ever want to
fight Revan again?
Never again.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
I don't feel that way at all.
Hard mode Tithe all day, really.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
That's my favorite fight in the whole game, the
whole mechanic, yeah not evenisaac's.
You're just happy to go andfight, type, yeah, but isaac's
is like too like there's toomuch, it's over the top right
like it's the final boss of yeah, my opinion, yeah, but the best
operation I like Tithe becausethe mechanics are amazing.
(36:29):
The push-pull, the DPS, checkthe swipes, even the sisters is
the best fight in the whole gameWith the color swaps and all
that.
You know what I mean.
That is like that I miss, butlike the Revan fight, I have
zero interest in ever doing thatagain.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Ever.
I'm going to break some newshere.
People might be surprised.
You might not be surprised,Marcus, but I got to email with
Broadsword yesterday and I letthem know about my Twitch
partner news and that now Idon't have to worry about my
(37:13):
average viewer number.
I can play whatever I want.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Marcus, Well, I'm going to tell you right now.
Actually, broad Sword helpsyour numbers right now because
SWOTOR has Twitch, drops Yep,and when people watch your
stream while you're playingswotor, they earn stuff yeah,
free stuff.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
I have already told them about some content for
youtube that I'm at variousstages of working on, because my
dissertation is on star warsthe old republic.
Eventually I'm going to getvideos done that talk about some
of the key insights from thatgame and why I love it.
And also I do want to do somestreams in SWTOR sometime soon
(38:00):
because I miss it now.
I think it's been three yearssince I logged in, years since I
(38:26):
logged in.
I'm pretty sure I don't have anexact date on the right now.
As I used to be as a Raider, Ithink I understand that it's
okay now.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
It's different, it's because you realize that you're
not doing it for the achievement, you're doing it to be social,
with some challenge.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Yes, but we're going to open up something to parse
and I want to be amazing.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
There's a performance aspect too.
Yeah, I get it.
Listen, man, I completelyunderstand what you're saying.
You should get involved in that.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
You know what I mean yep, I actually actually had a
really cool.
I just want to give a shout outto one of my favorite people
that I've rated with not you,marcus, you're already in the
conversation.
No, slayer reached out to methe other day on Blue Sky and I
was just like hey, are you stillraiding?
(39:36):
It's just like all the thingsare pointing to.
For me, this week is to log inand do something.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
That is so vague.
Okay, log in and do someflashpoints.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
No, my inventory is a mess.
I don't even know whatcharacters are holding the EXP.
Gear set from the Dark vs Lightevent Doesn't even matter, just
do the story.
It matters to me?
No, it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
It matters to me?
Yeah, but just hear me out.
It doesn't actually matter,because you're just going to
just play the story and you'llbe level 80 by the time you're
done with the story.
You'll be level 80.
My highest level character islevel 70.
Yeah, so you're gonna continuethe journey.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
You know what's funny ?
I was teaching my class beforethis podcast, because that's
what I do on thursday nights andit's the first week of the
final course for these students.
Before it's the final count, I'mthe, I'm the final boss, oh
please don't, no, you're not, Iam, and I have been for years
(40:54):
because I teach this course allthe time.
Right, I'm positioned in theprogram at my university as the
final boss, and I love that,just like I'm the final chapter
in a lot of geek therapeuticsbooks All of them, except for
(41:17):
the Witcher.
I'm not the final chapter inthe Witcher, I don't think.
I think that's the one wherethe street got broken.
Anyway, my students are messingwith me in a positive way.
They keep using the wordjourney all the time when they
talk about what they're doing intheir internships, and I told
them I need to have a soundeffect rigged up for this class
(41:37):
that I can just hit every timeyou say that word, because this
is getting ridiculous now.
I love it, though.
Thank you to all my students.
Actually, some of my studentshave been watching on Twitch and
have been bringing that intothe classroom and talking to me
about my Final Fantasy XIVresearch study, because that is
what I use as the backdrop of myresearch methods class, because
(42:00):
that's my most high-profilescientific publication up to
this point, and it's just been ablast.
Everything's coming together,marcus.
It's crystallizing in aworld-defining kind of way for
me.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Yeah, you're taking your first step into a larger
world.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Ooh Obi-Wan, I love it.
I want to put a little efforthere to repurpose these
successes from me to things thatpeople can hopefully use, and
we've touched on this already.
But I just want to make itcrystal clear you don't always
succeed at the thing you want,even if you want it really badly
(42:44):
, and the best advice that I canoffer to anyone in those
moments is keep going can I addto that?
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Yeah, please, and my part of that is don't ever be
complacent, because as soon asyou get comfortable, people will
stop coming.
Don't think that doc haschanged who he was as a creator
Many talks and the way things hedoes and adjust his stream and
(43:22):
like this and that it always waschanging.
It was always for the better,and sometimes he tried stuff
that didn't work and then, a lotof times, yes, but those are
the things and that's the adviceI can give, because, just
remember, you could have 50people watching your stream
today and tomorrow.
Johnny Rocket one, two, three,four, five comes out in the
(43:45):
world and everybody leavesbecause he's the new shiny guy.
Just be who you are.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Yeah, that's something you can do to network
and build your community andconnect with other people's
communities.
When you're done, you can sendthe group of people that are
willing to click to be a part ofthe ride to a different channel
so you can build friendshipswith other streamers that way
and support them and share someof the love.
And it gives me a chance tohang out and just talk with them
(44:23):
about what's good in the gamethey're playing and what I like
about them and some of thethings I said to amp them up to
my community.
Into this conversation aboutsome social media posts that
someone said earlier today youshould only ever stream one game
(44:43):
and build your community aroundit, because that makes it so.
People will know you'redependable and they'll know what
you're getting from yourchannel.
And on and listen to me becauseI'm smartest person in the
world, the streamer that I rated.
She is a VTuber and has done alot of growth in the last year.
I met her on social media fromsomething witty and positive
(45:06):
about gaming that she posted andI just like the personality in
it.
This is probably nine monthsago or so, and so I watched her
channel grow, I watched her getpartner and then so this is my
first time getting to raid as aTwitch partner, so that was
exciting and so we just talkedabout.
I was like I completelydisagree.
I did this growth from Julyuntil now.
(45:29):
When I really came back toTwitch and made it, I told my
wife I'm treating this it's awork appointment.
Kind, bridge has my back.
They're intrigued by seeingwhat can happen for their
program that I'm training thecounselors for if I can make
this work.
They want to see if I can do it.
So it became work.
It became a job.
(45:49):
I needed that because work isso important to me.
Bridge saying yeah, your streamis part of your work was like
game on, like I'm all in now,and that happened after that
presentation I talked about.
So back to the whole varietyversus staying married to only
one game.
(46:10):
My growth occurred during mechoosing to play metaphor
refantasio, silent hill to theentirety of Dragon Age, the Veil
Guard.
Final Fantasy XIV is in thebackground on the off days, the
entire time, starring a newcharacter, a realm reborn,
playing Dawn Trail with thenewest content, both of those
(46:34):
happening back and forth, andthen Final Fantasy VII Rebirth.
Because I love those charactersTwo of them are in my
background.
Final Fantasy VII is all overthe gamer's journey.
It probably is my favorite gameof all time and I was just like
I'm playing all these games.
I'm waking up and playing.
(46:55):
What is my vibe in the morning,like when I sit at the computer.
What do I want to play?
And it doesn't work foreveryone.
Or if you aren't dedicated toit, you're not going to find the
right people, or the rightpeople are not going to find you
.
They need to see you lovingwhat you're doing.
That is so much more importantthan what game you choose is a
(47:18):
small percent of your growthOkay, but it's not the biggest
variable, it's not the biggestfactor and I thought it was for
about six years.
And I wonder.
I'm happy with I'm.
I don't like the butterflyeffect in this way.
I don't want to change whathappened because sitting here
(47:39):
today, I love the outcome, butit is fun to wonder what if I
had only played what I love andactually studied other streamers
and picked up on?
I really like that dynamic, orI really don't think that
dynamic works for me, but I hadfun watching this streamer do
(47:59):
that.
For example, we mentioned wegave a shout to Kitty Kisses
last week, right?
Yep, I rated him recently, hungaround a little bit.
Same kind of exchange and theway he does things.
That's not the way I do things.
We're very different humanbeings, but I can still watch it
(48:20):
and learn from him like, oh,this works for him because of
this.
Like he has Nexu right, he hasthe Nexu cam.
I love that.
I can't do that, but what's myversion of that?
And so that's the thing thatcan make what I do feel genuine
to people who are watching me,just like what he does is
(48:42):
genuine for people watching him.
I think every creator has tofigure that kind of stuff out.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
You're 100% right.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Sometimes I watch the really uppity kind of Fortnite
streamers that are overreactingto every single moment in the
game and I think to myself, man,I'd be a better streamer if I
could just do that, not true?
I can't do that.
I don't overreact like that.
I'm not unhinged.
I'm not calculatedly unhinged.
(49:13):
I had to figure out.
Those streamers are not whatI'm trying to be, but if I sit
and watch them for an hour, Ican learn from them and figure
out what is my version of that.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
That's what I've been doing for six months, marcus.
Well, clearly what you havedone has worked right.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
So far.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
Yeah, and you just keep doing what you're doing.
I believe that the message isbigger than the game.
So for the a lot of people, yes, making twitch partner based
off of being a variety streamerdoes not work.
Statistically speaking does notwork.
Statistically speaking it doesnot work.
But when your message isstronger than the games you're
(50:04):
playing, it can work.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
For me, the turning point was convincing people that
don't watch Twitch to watchTwitch.
If I had continued with theplan of I'm going to get Twitch
viewers to watch me on Twitch,this conversation is probably a
very different one.
In fact, we'd be talking aboutour planned topic instead.
(50:34):
You have to figure out what isyour niche, and I was very lucky
to have several niches ofpeople that think video games
are great in different reasonsand want to help me get this
goal and want to be on top ofwhat some of the most recent
(50:57):
games are, and I was able to dothat.
I've really enjoyed all thegames I listed earlier.
Like I even did a stream withAstro Bot, loved it.
I didn't continue playing it,just being willing to try
different things.
I did a Diablo 4 stream duringthat set of months too, just
getting me outside of my comfortzone, but finding that comfort
(51:20):
zone in the people watching andin the conversation.
So video games are a very socialthing.
It connects people and Twitch isa really fun way to meet new
people that are interesting.
Like I'm the one on screen whenI stream and when you stream.
Like you're the one on screenwhen I stream and when you
stream like you're the one onscreen, marcus, but those
(51:46):
relationships that can be builtwhen people want to jump in and
chat with you, research is goingto call those parasocial
relationships, meaning it'seither one-sided or one and a
half-sided, that they areinteracting with me in a way
that is more accessible thanseeing a celebrity on a TV, but
not quite completely genuine,right, my goal is to give them
(52:10):
as genuine an experience of meas I can, but other streamers
might be playing out a personawhere they're allowed to be a
little different than who theyactually are, because the
cameras are live and that'scompletely fine, that's acting,
but I don't really know who theyare.
I know their username andsometimes a username pops up
(52:31):
where I know exactly who thatperson is and that's fun, but I
still will use their usernamewhile I'm live because that's
polite.
So you have this whole range ofdifferent kinds of
relationships that are coming inand just being a part of a
moment where I'm gettingdestroyed by a tough boss or I'm
trying to put on a betteroutfit, right, all the things in
(52:55):
between.
Speaker 2 (52:59):
I think, yeah, outfit right all the things in between
.
I think, yeah, you did it rightthank you, marcus.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
That's so nice to look back on and say, yeah, I
did.
What the heck?
Oh man, it doesn't happen toeverybody.
No, it doesn't.
There's 1%, do you think that's?
Speaker 2 (53:21):
It doesn't matter, that part doesn't matter.
Today your hard work paid off.
Tomorrow you still have to goto work.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
You could say that tomorrow it's a new day.
Yes, it is New day, sucks.
We are doing amazing with allof the WWE references on our
show.
Speaker 2 (53:50):
Bro, saturday Night Night event is Saturday, and
then Royal Rumble is thefollowing week.
Speaker 1 (53:55):
Yeah, it's going to be great following week.
Yeah, it's gonna be great.
Also, I'm just gonna tell you Idon't know if we clearly said
what our plan topic was.
We did not.
We did at the end of lastepisode and by now people have
been able to listen to that.
It was going to be fightinggames.
Speaker 2 (54:13):
I was going to heavily focus on wwe 2k24 as a
fighting game and I wasdefinitely gonna be saying get
over here a thousand timestonight mortal kombat one marcus
is such a diva of a video gameit is the game that changed the
(54:39):
fighting game world no, like thenew mortal combat one that came
out in 2022.
Speaker 1 (54:46):
yeah, I updated it on my steam deck and downloaded it
on steam on my pc today, andboth devices took over 90
minutes to download that game.
The Steam Deck wasn't evendownloading the game, it was
patching.
The game took 90 minutes.
We're going to have to justpunt the fighting game topic to
(55:12):
next week, if you're okay withthat Of course I am Okay.
I've already shown a lot of lovein the episode to KindBridge
Behavioral Health, but I want tobe very clear.
If you're listening to thesetalks, you love video games and
you would like to pursue yourown psychotherapy and you're in
the United States.
We have licensed counselors andlife coaches in almost every
(55:34):
state now and coaching isavailable in all states.
If you want a gaming positivepsychotherapy experience, look
us up at kindbridgecom.
Speaker 2 (55:46):
And if you want to grow your stream and you really
need somebody to kick you in theass and motivate you to be
better and listen to what I haveto say, call Marcus.
Speaker 1 (55:55):
Yeah, that's true.
So, marcus, I don't know howmuch you're going to this
parallel, but you're like mySamwise Gamgee.
Speaker 2 (56:04):
It's understandable.
Speaker 1 (56:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (56:07):
Need to be Frodo.
It's like me on the ice whenI'm playing hockey.
I don't need to score the goal,I like to pass it and watch my
friends score the goal.
Speaker 1 (56:17):
Ah, you get the assist.
I don't know the hockey.
Speaker 2 (56:19):
Yeah, that's like.
Speaker 1 (56:20):
John Stockton.
Speaker 2 (56:22):
Yeah, hey, I'm the playmaker.
Speaker 1 (56:25):
Yeah, it's very true.
A lot of the things youencouraged me over the years
were all small steps to get meto have some of these
achievements.
It's wild how many things youcan do in life that take so many
years to complete, and I justwant to encourage everyone if
(56:46):
you're feeling stuck and youreally want something so bad,
but it doesn't seem like it'sgoing to happen just keep
innovating, keep making theattempt.
You do not know where you'regoing to be five or 10 years
from now, but you're not goingto get to that five or 10 year
mark if you give up in the firstday, in the first week, in the
(57:12):
first month.
You can't be doing things justbecause of the outcome.
You have to be doing thingsbecause it's the right thing for
you to do and it's on a paththat you believe exists.
And keep doing it, even whenthe goal does not seem on the
horizon.
Speaker 2 (57:29):
Hey Doc.
Speaker 1 (57:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (57:31):
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take
, but by the moments that takeour breath away.
Continue your journey, thankyou.
Welcome to the Gaming Persona podcast.
This is the show that exploreswho we become when we play games
, whether you're saving kingdoms, leading epic raids or just
vibing in cozy indie worlds.
Join me, dr Gamology and mygood friend Marcus as we search
for all the ways gaming andpersonal growth collide.
Grab your controllers and let'scontinue the journey Now.
(00:21):
Continue the journey now.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
So my gaming week has been a little funky, we're
going to call it so.
Since the last episode, Iactually did a lot of like
in-person things.
I think I played four hockeygames since the last time I saw
you.
But I've been really lazy withthe video games and let me
(00:47):
explain.
And is it lazy?
You're gonna answer it for me.
So I didn't sit at my tv andplay a video game, I was on my
switch and I've been playingoctopath traveler 2 it's that
turn-based jrpg that I wastelling you about like I'm going
through and like building thesquad, because you know it's
(01:08):
like a four-person team but youhave to go out and recruit all
the recruits and then you canpick your main squad.
I'm gonna pull out this guy,but I'm gonna put this girl in
blah blah, blah.
So I've been doing that.
So it's basically like all oftheir intro quests I think I got
six of them done and they'reall so good in their own way,
(01:31):
like this one.
The main character, hakari.
He's like your traditionalwarrior perfect class.
For me.
He's gonna be my main when he'sall about swinging a sword and
doing damage, okay, and hisstory is your typical samurai
kind of destiny guy the fatheris old, the brother is like the
(01:53):
head of the army.
But then there's Hikari, who islike nice to the people and
he's just a good person and he'sstill a fierce warrior, but
he's not like his brother, whojust wants war everywhere.
And the father decides thathakari should be the king.
Well, the son doesn't like thatand offs the dad.
(02:16):
Oh no, and.
And hakari isn't strong enoughto defeat his brother right now,
so he goes on his quest to getstronger, so then he can take
the land back from his brother.
So I started that and likeimmediately, and now I haven't
played a turn-based rt rpg.
(02:37):
I can't even tell you the lastone really like, yeah, like I
don't play turn nah, I'm notlike I've no matter how many
times I've tried.
I've never played a persona game, um, like maybe it was final
fantasy.
8 or 9 was the last turn-basedgame that's 20 to 30 years ago,
(02:58):
correct?
wow, so this is not your genreno, it's not, and I'm completely
hooked on.
You were talking about likethat save lock where you save
your spot and you can't doanything about it.
I actually did that and Iactually reverted back to before
I collected the next characterand started that save again and
(03:18):
then deleted the others becauseI didn't do enough of so each
character has a job it can do.
Because I didn't do enough of,so each character has a job it
can do Like one can steal, onecan persuade with information to
get information, stuff likethat, and I didn't do enough of
it.
So I feel like, if you don't doenough of it in your intro area
, hurt yourself for the maingame.
I see.
So I've been like legit, I'veput like 12 hours into this game
(03:43):
this week.
Wow, like out of nowhere I goin bed and I like just explore
and fight a couple of fights andthen I pass out or like just
don't tell my work, I've beenbringing it to work and if I
have downtime at work I justpull it out and do a couple of
battles to level up and you knowwhat.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
But it's not on company time, it's just I'm
enjoying the game so much, butit's been so cold here.
When I leave my Switch in thevan and I turn it on, the thing
is like an icebox.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Does it still work?
Yeah, okay, because if you'regoing to tell me it's that bad,
I was going to say there is aplace you could live where that
would not happen.
It has its own, floridaida.
I don't know, there's probablybetter states that you could
pick florida's the best.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Who doesn't want palm trees and the coast?
Speaker 1 (04:36):
let the record reflect that I do not agree with
what my co-host just said.
That's really cool, though,that you found a new genre and a
new way to play a game thatstill gives you a story and
characters that feel compellingto you, and you want to keep
leveling them up and buildingthem up to be your squad, and
it's hard?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
I don't.
I'm a terrible turn-based gamerbecause I I don't use the spell
to boost everybody's attackpower, I just attack and you
can't just do that.
You know what I mean.
And as you're fighting likethese things and you're like
dude, I'm annihilating them andthen they just destroy you
because you didn't boost therest of your team.
You're just, I'm just liketrying to power through and you
(05:19):
can't.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
It's like that meme you can see with different anime
characters and stuff onInstagram where it's eight year
old me, would you like to use amove that doesn't take down HP?
No, exactly.
Yeah, you look at your Pokemon.
(05:48):
Traditionally each Pokemon gameis a turn based attack kind of
game and 12 year old me wouldhave my six pokemon in my party
and all of them just have fourattack moves and then you can
win pokemon games that way.
But when you get a japanesestyle role-playing game that has
turn-based combat and you'replaying on a higher difficulty,
like in Persona or MetaphorRefantasio, you have to play
strategically.
You can't just go in and do awholly extreme attack to every
(06:14):
enemy and expect to win thatmatch, because sooner or later
they're going to have a counterfor that or it's going to be
reduced damage or even reflectthe damage back at you.
And you're done because youhave no strategy.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
So you and I are speaking the same language.
It's just a new way of thinkingand I think I don't want to say
it's because I'm old, but Ijust think that I'm enjoying
taking some time because it'sthe complete opposite of an
elden Ring, where the second youturn on Elden Ring, there is no
calm.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yeah, debatable.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
I think there are moments of calm, maybe when
you're exploring, riding yourhorse, your noble steed through
Limgrave, sure, but there's notreally any Once you're through
Lindell.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
There's really no calm to that game If you have
the right meditation andmindfulness skills, any game can
be calm.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Well, that game is stressful, from the moment I
click play until the moment itturns off.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
At least you enjoy all the games that you purposely
stress yourself out with well,elden ring is the greatest game
ever made.
It's just that I don't know,can that be our topic?
Can we just like swap topicsand take that for an hour and
just spar back and forth?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
well, of course, everybody's gonna have their own
opinion, but when you thinkabout a game games that have an
incredible story, incredibleside quests, the most vast open
world you could ever be in thecombat is incredible.
Every aspect of the game can beleveled up and made stronger,
(08:02):
better and whatever.
That's Elden ring.
Yeah, there's nothing that hasever been made in my opinion and
I've played a lot of games thatis more thought out than this
game.
But give an example, I just be.
And when I did, I I don't knowwhat made me go back, but I went
(08:23):
back to Stormvale Castle, towhere I killed what was his name
?
Godric or Godric, oh Godric andI ran into the room and there
was an NPC there.
They were like oh hey, thanksfor coming back to the castle.
You finished the quest, youkilled the Lindell stuff, thanks
.
I'm going to go chill, butbefore I go, here's something
(08:47):
freaking epic.
And I was like what, how doesthat even happen?
Where you show up to anotherspot and this person's dying and
like he talks to you and you godo one thing for him and the
game is just Wow.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
And those characters do not have little flashy
markers on top of their headlike if it was an MMO Nope,
which.
There's nothing signaling toyou that this conversation is
going to be significant.
You have to listen to what theysay and remember it, or take a
note, and that is why thediscoverable features in the
(09:26):
world of Elden Ring are soimmersive, because it doesn't
baby you like you're playing avideo game, it's.
You're living in this world.
You better pay attention, right, or it's going to be very
painful, right.
And also, my ego is going toget into this here when you say
that's the greatest game evermade, and I'm actually OK with
(09:49):
that now.
But do you want to know why,marcus?
Of course I do, because I wrotea chapter in the psychology of
Elden Ring and if there's evergoing to be the best game ever
made, I'm going to be in thatbook writing about it.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
So it is the greatest game of all time because you
wrote the final chapter in thatbook.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yes, I am the Omega Statement on the Elden Ring and
also if there is ever a gamethat's better than Elden Ring.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
I'll write a chapter for that game as well.
I just wrote my review for thatbook on Amazon.
What?
And I gave it four stars.
Oh no, the only reason why isbecause the editor did not
notify every single author thatthey didn't need to start every
single chapter with explainingto the world what Elden Ring was
.
Whoever wrote the first chaptershould have just said hey, this
(10:42):
is Elden Ring and everybodyelse should have just built off
of it.
But every single author goesinto it and goes you're a
tarnished and you're startingout in the lands between blah,
blah, blah.
It was the same first page inevery chapter.
That's the only reason why Igot four stars.
Okay, but the last chapter wasepic.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Thank you.
None of us collaborate whenwe're writing our chapters in a
book that's designed that way.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
But maybe the person that's at the head of the table
should notify people that, hey,this is a continuous book.
Maybe everybody shouldn'texplain to people what Tarnished
are.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Then you've done over Right.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
That's the only reason why I got a four.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
I'm racking my brain now.
Did I write my chapter that waytoo?
Yes, you did also.
I didn't know.
We don't even know whatsequence we are going to be in
the book.
It's like christmas morningnews update when the book
finally gets to your mailbox.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Let me ask you a question If you're hiring an
editor to just go through thebook and organize the book right
, wouldn't you send okay?
Hey, doc, you're chapter 10,take out.
I don't need you to explainwhat the tarnished are by
chapter 10, everybody knows whatthe tarnished is.
Adjust your story.
(12:03):
You know what I mean.
It's an easy thing to make thereading better for your consumer
.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Even better, you don't even have to ask the
author.
There is an entire section ofmy Psychology of Pokemon chapter
that nobody has ever gotten toread and I included it at
Orlando Nerd Night when I did apanel talk about my chapter and
I told them you are the onlypeople that are ever going to
know that this content was meantto be in the book.
(12:40):
It was a really fascinatingneuroscience study where they
put the connectors on differentareas of a person's brain and
can predict which starter theyare going to pick before they
play the game with over 99%accuracy for Charmander and
(13:01):
Squirtle and in the 90% ofaccuracy for Bulbasaur.
And I wrote at least a pageabout this and it got cut.
It never made it into the book.
So if you have that kind ofpower, you can just delete
sentences and make sure the flowstill works.
But I'm the writer up to thispoint, not the editor.
(13:23):
So I got to stay in my lane.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Okay, egos aside, moving on about Elden Ring, I'm
going to play this byplay-by-play.
So the other day I'm justhanging out, I'm working, doing
something I don't remember whatthe hell I was doing and I get
this message and it's Doc's andit's a screenshot of his channel
.
It's got the check mark next toit.
(13:47):
I fucking threw my phone in theair.
I think it was in the air likeeight feet smashed to the ground
.
I was like, oh my god.
So dr gamology is now a twitchpartner and I went fucking
bananas for him and I know hewent during that process sending
that that to me.
It was probably like a littlelike schoolgirl from the
(14:07):
personas thing.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
My my thumb was shaking trying to get the words
out.
It was insane.
And also it was like six in themorning too.
I got that email at 930 pm thenight before.
But get this I fell asleep at9.15 pm the night before, so I
(14:31):
woke up at 5, like I always doon weekdays.
I made my coffee, I'm sittingon the couch, I'm checking my
notifications and making sure Ididn't fall behind on threads
and blue sky and Twitter andInstagram sky.
Blue sky is a Twitteralternative for people who are
(14:51):
politically upset with thepeople who own Twitter, so it's
just a Twitter.
Yeah, it's yeah, it looksexactly the same as Twitter used
to look before it was bought,and they did like the X re
theming to try and make itsleeker, but actually it's not
(15:12):
sleeker.
Everything just goes transparentuntil you scroll.
Anyway, I'm not not a fananyway.
So I got done with all thesocial media apps and then I
decided to check my email and Ihad been checking my email,
marcus, about 50 times a day forthe last nine days, and the
reason is this was my third timeapplying for Twitch partner
(15:38):
since I completed the Twitchachievement called Path to
Partner, and so what that meanswhen you're a content creator
and you're doing streaming onTwitch for people who don't know
, this achievement is the firstgatekeeper between you becoming
a Twitch partner and remaining aTwitch affiliate, and those are
(15:59):
the two levels of people thatare able to basically treat
Twitch like it's a career, ifyou want to.
And so the first two times Iapplied, they rejected my
application in 48 hours bothtimes, and they tell you when
(16:20):
you apply it seven to 10 daysturnaround.
So when I applied the thirdtime, and they give you an
explanation like here's whatwe're seeing in your channel.
We like your enthusiasm, we likewhat your community is doing.
We want to see more of this.
We want to see if you canmaintain this.
They set goals.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
They just wanted you to be a fly by night person, and
then they give it to you andthen you have five people
watching your street exactly so.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
It's a business both months.
You have to wait 30 days toapply again as well.
Actually 28, 30, right?
So I was expecting anotherrejection email for my january
application.
It was becoming a monthly thing, uh, november, december,
january and I was expectingabout January 15th for them to
(17:09):
tell me no again and give me anew goal.
And it never came.
And instead of me feeling goodabout that, my brain was like oh
no, you just got to keepchecking your email impulsively
the entire rest of the week.
No, you just got to keepchecking your email impulsively
the entire rest of the week.
And it's so ironic, marcus,that the time I fall asleep
early is when they send theemail.
(17:30):
It is the best.
And they totally did the thingI'm always talking about with
time zones, because I do a lotof work in all the different
time zones of the US andsometimes it affects how I do my
job.
My one of my main roles is basedin Arizona, and so I have to do
(17:52):
things in a calculated waybased on Arizona time.
And I got this email veryclearly 630 pm California time,
probably OK.
930 pm florida time.
So I woke up, I saw it and mybrain?
I was awake, I was drinking mycoffee, I had tears of the
(18:14):
kingdom turned on.
I was about to start runningaround and find shrines until
it's time to wake up my son forschool.
And I saw the email and I waslike, okay, I got a email from
the Twitch partner department.
I've seen emails from them toother times.
What do they want me to do thistime?
(18:34):
And I opened it and I saw thepicture and we all know the
picture because of social media.
Like when people put thatpicture on their feed and say we
did it, guys.
Everybody who creates contentknows that cartoon of the wizard
girl with the bird flying awayand that picture was in my email
(18:56):
.
I didn't even see the words,marcus, I just was like holy
shit, like they sent me thepicture of the witch girl.
So just really big moment for meand for my message and and for
being able to talk with peopleabout what the gamer's journey
(19:16):
is live and connect it directlyto different games while we're
doing it.
That's why I stream on Twitchand I didn't always know why I
was streaming on Twitch and Ithink that's why it's so
important that this happened now, because I think it's just so
cool how everything's fittingtogether and people care about
(19:41):
what the gamer's journey is,whether they read the book or
they use different words todescribe it.
By being a gamer and living inthis world, we're looking for
something, we're trying to havesomething alive inside us, and
video games can let us have that.
We just can't always put itinto words, and so the reason I
(20:01):
stream and talk about this stuffthe way I do is so that people
can find their own words forwhat they get when they play
their favorite games.
So I'm just so excited for whatthe future has.
It really is going to help meshare the message of my book.
Talk about what KindBridge doesand what I do for counselors and
mental health professionalsusing video games, for
(20:24):
counselors and mental healthprofessionals using video games,
and the sky is the limit.
Now, marcus, it's like the endof a very frustrating journey,
because it took me seven yearsto really figure out what I
needed to get here.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
But you know, when you walk through another door,
there's another hallway andanother place to go, so there's
a couple of things I can say,and it may not be sound like
it's the I look at.
The journey as an affiliate isa journey to find out when you
(21:03):
hit partner, you have found out.
When you hit partner, you havefound out who you are as a
creator, because you've made itto that point and now it's time
to hone your craft and continue,whatever that craft may be that
sets you apart than everybodyelse, because, doc, you're not
(21:23):
the guy that's screaming, raging, doing all that stuff.
You're talking about all thegames and what they make you
feel and how they do things tomess with your head, to end the
games and you bring a differentmessage than anybody else out
there.
We said this seven years ago andyou know, you left Twitch for a
(21:45):
little while and you focused onYouTube and you achieved
YouTube partner, and that wasjust a small step.
And then you realize that therewere so many extra things you
could do while streaming thatcan appeal to all of the people
in your world, whether they're,you know, other docs or people
(22:08):
from the universities, or peoplethat read your studies, or just
gamers or students.
And it has all culminated tothis moment to where it's okay,
you're a doctor of gameology,you're a Twitch partner, now
it's time to get to work.
Again, you walk through the newhallway and now this is a long
(22:30):
hallway and now you've got tofigure out.
Okay, what's the next step?
Is it monetization?
Is it building, gettingpartners or sponsors to sponsor
the channel for you to partnerwith?
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
I'm just looking at this yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
General voice visions where they just what's a X
system and you already have theawesome backing of Cambridge
behind you and the awesome workthey're doing.
So the you have so manypositives.
It's just time to really focuson those and push forward and
set those goals for the nextstep.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah, the really big thing, like we're not having
this conversation without thisone change in my perspective,
and it came in July.
I did a keynote presentation atGeekEdCon.
I was talking about the gamer'sjourney as a therapeutic tool
to use mythology and video gamesto help people find their path
(23:31):
through their therapy, andreally fun talk, met a lot of
good people.
The room was into it and thatevent is where I started telling
people point blank, as directas I could.
People point blank, as directas I could.
I am streaming on Twitch Sunday, monday, thursday.
(23:52):
The goal is, if you're sittingat home doing any kind of work,
for you to get your coffee, sitthere, have me on the background
, talk with me.
I'm there to talk about thispresentation in different ways.
Whatever game I'm playing, Iwant to see you there, even if
you can't chat, even if youcan't pay your full attention.
And then I started bringing myLinkedIn people in.
(24:15):
I started making sure to dosocial media a little bit more
responsibly and make sure peopleknew when I'm going to do this,
because you know people comewatch if they know you're doing
something cool.
If you keep it to yourself, noone's going to be there.
I was so bad about that in 2023.
But, marcus, thank you so muchalso for all the conversations
(24:39):
where you would just challengeme to focus on what I can do
right now.
Focus on the small steps, don'tworry about the big steps.
So many times you told me don'tworry about partner, worry
about building your community,worry about honing your craft
Schedule.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Like that was the biggest thing you need to pick
the days you're doing it.
Whatever those times are, I telleverybody.
If you're so where, listen, Idid it.
I never achieved partner, butthe one thing that I did have
was a wonderful community thatsurrounded myself and the
podcast and the stream channel.
And the one thing that Iunderstand is I look at
(25:20):
everything as a business.
It's just who I am and I'vealways told Doc and everybody
else if you're going to do this,you set a schedule and you're
married to that schedule, nomatter what that schedule is
your life.
I can't tell you how many timesmy wife wanted to go out to
dinner and I was like no, I haveto stream because you're
(25:43):
married to those times.
I'm switching to the mornings.
Doc is not a night owl.
I am, by the time we're done,hanging out doing the podcast.
He's tired and I'm still raringto go.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Because I've been working for 16 hours.
Well, me too.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
But you and I are built different and my time for
me is always at night, where youget your time in the mornings.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
And that's where you being on Arizona time for work
is way better than being stuckin Florida time for work.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Yeah, and then the other things that I do research
teams and stuff.
That's where it gets reallybananas, because, interacting
with people in Australia andEurope consistently, you just
have to be available formeetings that occur at odd times
.
Anyway, the morning time iswhen I could make Twitch work
(26:40):
and treat it like this is anappointment Right, and I'm so
glad that I did that.
I can't believe it, marcus.
That's good, because I promiseI'm so glad that I did that.
I can't believe it, marcus.
That's good, because I promiseI'm telling the truth.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
I can't I can tell you that you can't believe it
because I know you For seven.
Okay, everybody, I'm going togive you guys a little backstory
.
Seven years ago, when I met Doc, he was just a junior.
He was a junior Dr Woodchuck,and he was just a baby and he
wanted to take over the wholeworld.
I want to do this, I want to dothis, I want to do this, I want
(27:13):
to do this and I want to dothis.
And I always was the calm inhis storm of pick.
One thing, dude, one thing at atime.
People are going to find outwho you are.
No, they're not.
It's taking too long.
They're not recognizing me.
Acknowledge me, acknowledge.
And I remember theseconversations from five years
(27:34):
ago, like doc, it's going tohappen one day, and I'll never
forget this day.
Doc called me Marcus, you wereright and I was like hold on the
saw's running in the back.
Doc and I were going to talkfor two hours while I'm working
in my shop and I would like tolet me turn off the saw.
You were right.
What happened?
Oh, my god, the director of xthing, that is, the head of this
(27:59):
, which is the president of thisjust asked me if I marcus.
Do you know how incredible thatis?
Well, it was just a matter oftime.
Why do you have to be right?
And I'll never forget thatconversation with Doc.
So the whole point is and I'mnot here to bash him this has
(28:20):
been a culmination of years ofgrinding to get you to this
point, and this is something youshould hold your head high for,
because not everybody makesTwitch partner, not everybody
makes YouTube partner, noteverybody is recognized by the
regional director of sales atDunder Mifflin.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Junior assistant to the regional manager.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Yeah, it's, it's.
It's a long time coming, friend, and it's about time you got
the recognition you deserve.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
I earned it too, yeah , but you deserve it more than
you earn it.
Okay, I guess we'll let thatslide you work so hard.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
dude, people don't understand you and I.
Our work ethic is the same incomplete different ways.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Different fields, but it's the same mentality.
Yes, we are workers.
It's the Mamba mentality,marcus.
It's Kobe Bryant's wholeapproach to life.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Can I just ask you one question, what?
Who's the greatest basketballplayer ever?
Speaker 1 (29:36):
kobe bryant, larry bird, baby.
No, there, it's, there's.
I did a whole segment aboutkobe this morning on my stream.
I have to support myself no, Iget it.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
But hey, man, congratulations.
If you guys see doc go over totwitchtv, slash dr gamology,
give them a follow, pop in, evenif it's for five minutes, and
if you really want to get them,just drop the text.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Boomba, yeah, he'll know that you heard this, and
I'll know you're one of theMarcus and what we call people
from the capital of Marcusville.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
How about just fans of doc Larry Bird fans?
Speaker 1 (30:23):
All right, we are so deep into this episode and we
have not even started our topic.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Wait we're not talking about that topic tonight
.
That's just not happeningToday's.
A Twitch partner topic I likethat yeah.
Like we're not starting a showafter 33 minutes.
But, Doc, you didn't even tellme what games you played.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Oh my gosh, that's right.
I played Tears of the Kingdom.
I'm actually loving it.
I think it's a better game thanBreath of the.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Wild.
Oh God, Shots fired.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, I just really enjoy the powers that they give
Link.
He has this ridiculous elevatorjump where he goes through the
ceiling and comes out a portalon the other side of the roof.
It's so ridiculous that I loveit.
He also has this in my opinionsomewhat broken ability to just
(31:17):
fuse whatever is sitting on theground with his sword.
You have a broadsword but youhave this pile of rubble and you
just use this magical power andthen you just have two giant
rocks attached to the end ofyour broadsword and now you do
plus seven damage on every swingand it's more durable because
the stones are what's hittingthe enemy instead of the rusted
(31:40):
iron right.
And breaking weapons in breathof the wild was out of control,
annoying and it is annoying intears of the kingdom, but out of
control, annoying and it isannoying in Tears of the Kingdom
, but it feels better and it'sallowing me to enjoy being Link
and also the building things andassembling them to solve the
physics puzzles.
(32:00):
I find that really gratifying.
Every time you assemble thingsjust right and it works, like I
did a shrine this morning whereI had to put a long piece of
wood that was shaped like a batso it's a cylinder.
I had to attach it to a stakeand then shove the stake into
this console that rotates 180degrees and then back the other
(32:24):
direction.
The noise again.
And then back the otherdirection, the noise again.
And so you have to time it sothat you hit the giant boulder
that rolls at you Indiana Jonesstyle and you hit it into a
giant sign on the back left ofthe room, like hitting a home
run.
You have to time the swing sothat it goes in the left
(32:45):
direction, and it's so simple,it's not difficult.
You're assembling a battingcage with your magic right hand
that can float things throughthe air and attach things
together with your mind.
But it's baseball, and justgetting Link to successfully hit
(33:08):
that home run this morning wassuch a cool moment now, are you
playing it docked on your tv oryou with a controller?
yes, okay yeah, and I thinkthat's another big reason why I
like the game more than I didbreath of the wild.
I played breath of the wild inmy old place, which was a
(33:31):
townhome.
I had my office.
I had a short recliner in myoffice that I could sit in and
play handheld stuff and so Iplayed that whole game handheld.
But Tears of the Kingdom Iplayed.
100% of the time that I have hadthat game up has been on my
large TV and that is such a coolway to enjoy the game because
(33:54):
I'm on my couch, I love my couch, have my controller and I'm
just playing it the old way andI really like that.
But that's not the only game Iplayed.
The final two streams that Ihave done before the big Twitch
partner news was I got to playchapter eight of Final Fantasy
seven rebirth on PS five.
(34:15):
It just released today yeah,dead on Steam and I did download
it on my Steam deck.
I have not opened it andstarted playing it to see how it
runs, but it is Steam verified,so I'm sure it's great.
And I played final fantasy 14this morning and my paladin is
level 51 doing level 48 missionsalmost done with a realm reborn
(34:39):
and one of my community members, danny, saw that there were not
any healers queuing up for theduty and he came in with the
save this morning and he playedAstrologian for the heals and I
played Paladin and we did afour-man dungeon, and so
community involvement on thestreams.
If you enjoy playing FinalFantasy XIV and you have free
(35:02):
time on Sunday, monday orThursday mornings and I happen
to be playing that MMO on thatparticular day I think I'm going
to do more of that.
It was a really fun way to doit.
Maybe even create a voicechannel to use in discord so
that people can actually havebanter with me and stuff.
I just I really miss sociallyplaying games.
(35:25):
I really do.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Yeah, and that is understandable.
Right getting the social aspectis what I love about gaming.
Which is also what's reallyshocking about playing like
octopath right now is it's solo,and I'm not used to doing that,
and elden ring is solo.
It is really nice when you canplay a social game, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
I miss having a social goal.
This is going to sound insane,Marcus, but do you ever want to
fight Revan again?
Never again.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
I don't feel that way at all.
Hard mode Tithe all day, really.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
That's my favorite fight in the whole game, the
whole mechanic, yeah not evenisaac's.
You're just happy to go andfight, type, yeah, but isaac's
is like too like there's toomuch, it's over the top right
like it's the final boss of yeah, my opinion, yeah, but the best
operation I like Tithe becausethe mechanics are amazing.
(36:29):
The push-pull, the DPS, checkthe swipes, even the sisters is
the best fight in the whole gameWith the color swaps and all
that.
You know what I mean.
That is like that I miss, butlike the Revan fight, I have
zero interest in ever doing thatagain.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Ever.
I'm going to break some newshere.
People might be surprised.
You might not be surprised,Marcus, but I got to email with
Broadsword yesterday and I letthem know about my Twitch
partner news and that now Idon't have to worry about my
(37:13):
average viewer number.
I can play whatever I want.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Marcus, Well, I'm going to tell you right now.
Actually, broad Sword helpsyour numbers right now because
SWOTOR has Twitch, drops Yep,and when people watch your
stream while you're playingswotor, they earn stuff yeah,
free stuff.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
I have already told them about some content for
youtube that I'm at variousstages of working on, because my
dissertation is on star warsthe old republic.
Eventually I'm going to getvideos done that talk about some
of the key insights from thatgame and why I love it.
And also I do want to do somestreams in SWTOR sometime soon
(38:00):
because I miss it now.
I think it's been three yearssince I logged in, years since I
(38:26):
logged in.
I'm pretty sure I don't have anexact date on the right now.
As I used to be as a Raider, Ithink I understand that it's
okay now.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
It's different, it's because you realize that you're
not doing it for the achievement, you're doing it to be social,
with some challenge.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Yes, but we're going to open up something to parse
and I want to be amazing.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
There's a performance aspect too.
Yeah, I get it.
Listen, man, I completelyunderstand what you're saying.
You should get involved in that.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
You know what I mean yep, I actually actually had a
really cool.
I just want to give a shout outto one of my favorite people
that I've rated with not you,marcus, you're already in the
conversation.
No, slayer reached out to methe other day on Blue Sky and I
was just like hey, are you stillraiding?
(39:36):
It's just like all the thingsare pointing to.
For me, this week is to log inand do something.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
That is so vague.
Okay, log in and do someflashpoints.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
No, my inventory is a mess.
I don't even know whatcharacters are holding the EXP.
Gear set from the Dark vs Lightevent Doesn't even matter, just
do the story.
It matters to me?
No, it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
It matters to me?
Yeah, but just hear me out.
It doesn't actually matter,because you're just going to
just play the story and you'llbe level 80 by the time you're
done with the story.
You'll be level 80.
My highest level character islevel 70.
Yeah, so you're gonna continuethe journey.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
You know what's funny ?
I was teaching my class beforethis podcast, because that's
what I do on thursday nights andit's the first week of the
final course for these students.
Before it's the final count, I'mthe, I'm the final boss, oh
please don't, no, you're not, Iam, and I have been for years
(40:54):
because I teach this course allthe time.
Right, I'm positioned in theprogram at my university as the
final boss, and I love that,just like I'm the final chapter
in a lot of geek therapeuticsbooks All of them, except for
(41:17):
the Witcher.
I'm not the final chapter inthe Witcher, I don't think.
I think that's the one wherethe street got broken.
Anyway, my students are messingwith me in a positive way.
They keep using the wordjourney all the time when they
talk about what they're doing intheir internships, and I told
them I need to have a soundeffect rigged up for this class
(41:37):
that I can just hit every timeyou say that word, because this
is getting ridiculous now.
I love it, though.
Thank you to all my students.
Actually, some of my studentshave been watching on Twitch and
have been bringing that intothe classroom and talking to me
about my Final Fantasy XIVresearch study, because that is
what I use as the backdrop of myresearch methods class, because
(42:00):
that's my most high-profilescientific publication up to
this point, and it's just been ablast.
Everything's coming together,marcus.
It's crystallizing in aworld-defining kind of way for
me.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Yeah, you're taking your first step into a larger
world.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Ooh Obi-Wan, I love it.
I want to put a little efforthere to repurpose these
successes from me to things thatpeople can hopefully use, and
we've touched on this already.
But I just want to make itcrystal clear you don't always
succeed at the thing you want,even if you want it really badly
(42:44):
, and the best advice that I canoffer to anyone in those
moments is keep going can I addto that?
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Yeah, please, and my part of that is don't ever be
complacent, because as soon asyou get comfortable, people will
stop coming.
Don't think that doc haschanged who he was as a creator
Many talks and the way things hedoes and adjust his stream and
(43:22):
like this and that it always waschanging.
It was always for the better,and sometimes he tried stuff
that didn't work and then, a lotof times, yes, but those are
the things and that's the adviceI can give, because, just
remember, you could have 50people watching your stream
today and tomorrow.
Johnny Rocket one, two, three,four, five comes out in the
(43:45):
world and everybody leavesbecause he's the new shiny guy.
Just be who you are.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Yeah, that's something you can do to network
and build your community andconnect with other people's
communities.
When you're done, you can sendthe group of people that are
willing to click to be a part ofthe ride to a different channel
so you can build friendshipswith other streamers that way
and support them and share someof the love.
And it gives me a chance tohang out and just talk with them
(44:23):
about what's good in the gamethey're playing and what I like
about them and some of thethings I said to amp them up to
my community.
Into this conversation aboutsome social media posts that
someone said earlier today youshould only ever stream one game
(44:43):
and build your community aroundit, because that makes it so.
People will know you'redependable and they'll know what
you're getting from yourchannel.
And on and listen to me becauseI'm smartest person in the
world, the streamer that I rated.
She is a VTuber and has done alot of growth in the last year.
I met her on social media fromsomething witty and positive
(45:06):
about gaming that she posted andI just like the personality in
it.
This is probably nine monthsago or so, and so I watched her
channel grow, I watched her getpartner and then so this is my
first time getting to raid as aTwitch partner, so that was
exciting and so we just talkedabout.
I was like I completelydisagree.
I did this growth from Julyuntil now.
(45:29):
When I really came back toTwitch and made it, I told my
wife I'm treating this it's awork appointment.
Kind, bridge has my back.
They're intrigued by seeingwhat can happen for their
program that I'm training thecounselors for if I can make
this work.
They want to see if I can do it.
So it became work.
It became a job.
(45:49):
I needed that because work isso important to me.
Bridge saying yeah, your streamis part of your work was like
game on, like I'm all in now,and that happened after that
presentation I talked about.
So back to the whole varietyversus staying married to only
one game.
(46:10):
My growth occurred during mechoosing to play metaphor
refantasio, silent hill to theentirety of Dragon Age, the Veil
Guard.
Final Fantasy XIV is in thebackground on the off days, the
entire time, starring a newcharacter, a realm reborn,
playing Dawn Trail with thenewest content, both of those
(46:34):
happening back and forth, andthen Final Fantasy VII Rebirth.
Because I love those charactersTwo of them are in my
background.
Final Fantasy VII is all overthe gamer's journey.
It probably is my favorite gameof all time and I was just like
I'm playing all these games.
I'm waking up and playing.
(46:55):
What is my vibe in the morning,like when I sit at the computer.
What do I want to play?
And it doesn't work foreveryone.
Or if you aren't dedicated toit, you're not going to find the
right people, or the rightpeople are not going to find you
.
They need to see you lovingwhat you're doing.
That is so much more importantthan what game you choose is a
(47:18):
small percent of your growthOkay, but it's not the biggest
variable, it's not the biggestfactor and I thought it was for
about six years.
And I wonder.
I'm happy with I'm.
I don't like the butterflyeffect in this way.
I don't want to change whathappened because sitting here
(47:39):
today, I love the outcome, butit is fun to wonder what if I
had only played what I love andactually studied other streamers
and picked up on?
I really like that dynamic, orI really don't think that
dynamic works for me, but I hadfun watching this streamer do
(47:59):
that.
For example, we mentioned wegave a shout to Kitty Kisses
last week, right?
Yep, I rated him recently, hungaround a little bit.
Same kind of exchange and theway he does things.
That's not the way I do things.
We're very different humanbeings, but I can still watch it
(48:20):
and learn from him like, oh,this works for him because of
this.
Like he has Nexu right, he hasthe Nexu cam.
I love that.
I can't do that, but what's myversion of that?
And so that's the thing thatcan make what I do feel genuine
to people who are watching me,just like what he does is
(48:42):
genuine for people watching him.
I think every creator has tofigure that kind of stuff out.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
You're 100% right.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Sometimes I watch the really uppity kind of Fortnite
streamers that are overreactingto every single moment in the
game and I think to myself, man,I'd be a better streamer if I
could just do that, not true?
I can't do that.
I don't overreact like that.
I'm not unhinged.
I'm not calculatedly unhinged.
(49:13):
I had to figure out.
Those streamers are not whatI'm trying to be, but if I sit
and watch them for an hour, Ican learn from them and figure
out what is my version of that.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
That's what I've been doing for six months, marcus.
Well, clearly what you havedone has worked right.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
So far.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
Yeah, and you just keep doing what you're doing.
I believe that the message isbigger than the game.
So for the a lot of people, yes, making twitch partner based
off of being a variety streamerdoes not work.
Statistically speaking does notwork.
Statistically speaking it doesnot work.
But when your message isstronger than the games you're
(50:04):
playing, it can work.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
For me, the turning point was convincing people that
don't watch Twitch to watchTwitch.
If I had continued with theplan of I'm going to get Twitch
viewers to watch me on Twitch,this conversation is probably a
very different one.
In fact, we'd be talking aboutour planned topic instead.
(50:34):
You have to figure out what isyour niche, and I was very lucky
to have several niches ofpeople that think video games
are great in different reasonsand want to help me get this
goal and want to be on top ofwhat some of the most recent
(50:57):
games are, and I was able to dothat.
I've really enjoyed all thegames I listed earlier.
Like I even did a stream withAstro Bot, loved it.
I didn't continue playing it,just being willing to try
different things.
I did a Diablo 4 stream duringthat set of months too, just
getting me outside of my comfortzone, but finding that comfort
(51:20):
zone in the people watching andin the conversation.
So video games are a very socialthing.
It connects people and Twitch isa really fun way to meet new
people that are interesting.
Like I'm the one on screen whenI stream and when you stream.
Like you're the one on screenwhen I stream and when you
stream like you're the one onscreen, marcus, but those
(51:46):
relationships that can be builtwhen people want to jump in and
chat with you, research is goingto call those parasocial
relationships, meaning it'seither one-sided or one and a
half-sided, that they areinteracting with me in a way
that is more accessible thanseeing a celebrity on a TV, but
not quite completely genuine,right, my goal is to give them
(52:10):
as genuine an experience of meas I can, but other streamers
might be playing out a personawhere they're allowed to be a
little different than who theyactually are, because the
cameras are live and that'scompletely fine, that's acting,
but I don't really know who theyare.
I know their username andsometimes a username pops up
(52:31):
where I know exactly who thatperson is and that's fun, but I
still will use their usernamewhile I'm live because that's
polite.
So you have this whole range ofdifferent kinds of
relationships that are coming inand just being a part of a
moment where I'm gettingdestroyed by a tough boss or I'm
trying to put on a betteroutfit, right, all the things in
(52:55):
between.
Speaker 2 (52:59):
I think, yeah, outfit right all the things in between
.
I think, yeah, you did it rightthank you, marcus.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
That's so nice to look back on and say, yeah, I
did.
What the heck?
Oh man, it doesn't happen toeverybody.
No, it doesn't.
There's 1%, do you think that's?
Speaker 2 (53:21):
It doesn't matter, that part doesn't matter.
Today your hard work paid off.
Tomorrow you still have to goto work.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
You could say that tomorrow it's a new day.
Yes, it is New day, sucks.
We are doing amazing with allof the WWE references on our
show.
Speaker 2 (53:50):
Bro, saturday Night Night event is Saturday, and
then Royal Rumble is thefollowing week.
Speaker 1 (53:55):
Yeah, it's going to be great following week.
Yeah, it's gonna be great.
Also, I'm just gonna tell you Idon't know if we clearly said
what our plan topic was.
We did not.
We did at the end of lastepisode and by now people have
been able to listen to that.
It was going to be fightinggames.
Speaker 2 (54:13):
I was going to heavily focus on wwe 2k24 as a
fighting game and I wasdefinitely gonna be saying get
over here a thousand timestonight mortal kombat one marcus
is such a diva of a video gameit is the game that changed the
(54:39):
fighting game world no, like thenew mortal combat one that came
out in 2022.
Speaker 1 (54:46):
yeah, I updated it on my steam deck and downloaded it
on steam on my pc today, andboth devices took over 90
minutes to download that game.
The Steam Deck wasn't evendownloading the game, it was
patching.
The game took 90 minutes.
We're going to have to justpunt the fighting game topic to
(55:12):
next week, if you're okay withthat Of course I am Okay.
I've already shown a lot of lovein the episode to KindBridge
Behavioral Health, but I want tobe very clear.
If you're listening to thesetalks, you love video games and
you would like to pursue yourown psychotherapy and you're in
the United States.
We have licensed counselors andlife coaches in almost every
(55:34):
state now and coaching isavailable in all states.
If you want a gaming positivepsychotherapy experience, look
us up at kindbridgecom.
Speaker 2 (55:46):
And if you want to grow your stream and you really
need somebody to kick you in theass and motivate you to be
better and listen to what I haveto say, call Marcus.
Speaker 1 (55:55):
Yeah, that's true.
So, marcus, I don't know howmuch you're going to this
parallel, but you're like mySamwise Gamgee.
Speaker 2 (56:04):
It's understandable.
Speaker 1 (56:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (56:07):
Need to be Frodo.
It's like me on the ice whenI'm playing hockey.
I don't need to score the goal,I like to pass it and watch my
friends score the goal.
Speaker 1 (56:17):
Ah, you get the assist.
I don't know the hockey.
Speaker 2 (56:19):
Yeah, that's like.
Speaker 1 (56:20):
John Stockton.
Speaker 2 (56:22):
Yeah, hey, I'm the playmaker.
Speaker 1 (56:25):
Yeah, it's very true.
A lot of the things youencouraged me over the years
were all small steps to get meto have some of these
achievements.
It's wild how many things youcan do in life that take so many
years to complete, and I justwant to encourage everyone if
(56:46):
you're feeling stuck and youreally want something so bad,
but it doesn't seem like it'sgoing to happen just keep
innovating, keep making theattempt.
You do not know where you'regoing to be five or 10 years
from now, but you're not goingto get to that five or 10 year
mark if you give up in the firstday, in the first week, in the
(57:12):
first month.
You can't be doing things justbecause of the outcome.
You have to be doing thingsbecause it's the right thing for
you to do and it's on a paththat you believe exists.
And keep doing it, even whenthe goal does not seem on the
horizon.
Speaker 2 (57:29):
Hey Doc.
Speaker 1 (57:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (57:31):
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take
, but by the moments that takeour breath away.
Continue your journey, thankyou.
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