February 27, 2025 • 62 mins
Engaging in the emotional and psychological depths of gaming, this episode reflects on how titles like "Elden Ring" can transform our approach to resilience and personal growth. We share insights on the game's unique mechanics, character choices, and captivating quests that resonate deeply with players.
• Exploring personal growth through the challenges of gaming
• The psychological connection between struggle and gameplay
• Analyzing character classes and their significance in player identity
• The emotional attachment to NPCs and their quests
• Understanding the lessons gained from failure in gameplay
• Discussing the therapeutic potential of engaging with “Elden Ring”
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Gaming Persona Podcast.
This is the show that exploreswho we become when we play games
, whether you're saving kingdoms, leading epic raids or just
vibing in cozy indie worlds.
Join me, dr Gamology and mygood friend Marcus as we search
for all the ways gaming andpersonal growth collide.
Grab your controllers and let'scontinue the journey Now.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
How good is the new intro, Like how really good is
it?
You know, when something isgood and then there's great.
Actually, have you ever seenthe movie Miracle?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Like the hockey movie .
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
No, but I do know that we kicked their ass and we
won that game.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yes, that's just like what hopefully we're going to
do to Canada tonight.
But no, but back to the intro.
It's what you outdid yourself.
It's good, I like it.
I like it, but I got to circleback.
So this week I just a little IMarcus fighting moment.
(01:05):
Okay, so I was on the ice and Iwas playing and I was fighting
for the puck in the corner.
Okay, this is real, this isn'tNHL 25.
This is me on the ice.
So a guy comes in, he's tryingto get the puck and I'm digging,
I'm like hiding it inside myskates and because I'm waiting
for a player to come over so Ican kick the puck out, so the
(01:28):
second player comes over and hestarts fucking jamming me into
the wall and I'm like, all right, this is a non-checking league,
I'm not going to be that guy.
He gave me a cross check and ithurt Like he railed my back.
I came up and elbowed him inthis cage of his mask.
He did a flying.
Remember in Mortal Kombat I'mcircling back Remember, when you
(01:51):
uppercutted the guy into thepit in their arms?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Okay, he did that onto the ice and I took the
penalty.
It was fine, like it's okay,but my point is I had my own
real life fatality this week.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Hans Gruber at the end of Die Hard oh.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I just had to share it.
That's my sidebar of the day.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
That's so good.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
And now we got to check the box for mature content
on our podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
What do you mean?
New ground?
I think I swear more than mosthumans alive you have not sworn
in the last five episodes.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Marcus, you might've said shit one time, but is that
really a swear?
No Cause.
I remember as a child whenSouth park got permission to use
that word on television andthey did it like 200 times yeah,
I do remember that episode yeah, although it's funny when
(02:54):
you're watching wwe.
Now they can't.
They just mute entire segmentsof nxt because the Orlando crowd
that's apparently our onlyvocabulary word.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
I thought it's they have to when they do the holy
shit chant like they actually do.
It's like in the contract thatthey have to mute it.
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Yeah, because we can't have people who watch CW
or USA being aware that wordexists.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Tonight is a special night because we're going to get
into Elden Ring and I'm justgoing to preference this that
I'm a failure.
Yeah, you're showing up thebook you wrote the final chapter
in and I have not beaten it,but I have a lot to say about it
.
And I have a lot to say aboutNight Rain, the network test.
(03:46):
I'm going to let you tell us alittle bit about From Software,
because I think they're the mostmasochistic people that have
ever created a video game.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Okay, I actually have a mental health angle here.
It goes all the way back to thefoundation of psychology with
sigmund freud and carl young soshould I do the rewind?
Yes, it's 1908 and sigmundfreud is making us believe
everything we do psychologicallyis because of our sexual urges,
(04:19):
related to our upbringing andrelationship with our mother.
And but it's early 1900s.
I promise it's not super gross,it's just regular gross.
This is where psychologystarted everyone, and I wish I
was joking, but my sarcasm isactually founded in a lot of
truth here.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Sarcasm is at an all-time high right now.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yes, absolutely so.
I just want to say, as aprofessor, I teach counseling
theories a lot.
It's the course that I teachthe second most now, but the
first five years of my teachingcareer I by far taught this
class more than any other class.
Okay, and during that time Igrew a real love and passion for
(05:04):
understanding why we talk intherapy with certain keywords
and phrases and how we build aperson towards growth, but using
our theories.
So the theory is a set of ideasand philosophies that help us
to make sense of a situation,ideas and philosophies that help
(05:26):
us to make sense of a situation.
It creates our understanding ofwhy things are a problem and it
creates a pathway forunderstanding how to resolve
that issue and move forward.
The better for it.
And a lot of negativity comes upin modern times towards those
early psychological theoriesbecause they were the beginning
right.
So think about A New Hope inStar Wars, marcus.
It's a classic, it is awonderful movie, it is perfect
(05:53):
as far as what could be done in1977.
But George Lucas needed to fixit in 1997, and then he needed
to fix it again in 2004.
And then we keep getting tweaks, and now grito shoots first and
says some funky phrase at thebeginning mcgruber or something
I don't remember what he saysnow yeah.
(06:16):
So my point is that, just likethose early psychological
theories and just like star wars, episode 4 and new hope, which
originally was just Star Wars wetake something that was usable
in the past and was viewed asreally helpful, cutting edge and
well thought, and then we haveto adapt it to modernity.
(06:40):
Right, we have to make it workright now.
And those early psychologicaltheories were actually not just
about being efficient in life,not just about pushing down our
negative thoughts and twistingthem into positive.
Just think positive, like toxicpositivity, a lot of basic
(07:03):
psychological approaches.
Now they prioritize efficiencyover enduring the struggle and
if there is a struggle, webypass it instead of helping
people dive into it and overcomeit.
Okay, and from software gamesare like those early 1900
(07:27):
psychological theories wherethey're saying here's a struggle
, are you gonna do it?
Are you gonna be a whiny littlebitch and quit this game too?
And I think that a lot ofpeople in my YouTube comments,
for example and pardon theswearing and harsh words, I know
(07:47):
it's a little different thannormal, but I really have a
passionate perspective on whyElden Ring games matter and I
think that is the edge that Ifeel when I'm talking about it.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
And I'm just going to preference this doc.
It and I'm just gonnapreference this doc.
So all you doc is on a wholenew level of energy.
So he's bringing the swears,he's bringing the anger and he's
bringing it all to us todayyeah, I think that.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Remember, I'm a counselor too.
I do psychotherapy with people,I train other counselors.
I get to hear about all theircases and there are a lot of
people in this world where theygot to get the fight in them.
It's not just about runningfrom our problems, it's about
believing in ourself that if Igo into that room I can take
(08:38):
this problem on and it mighthurt a few times, a few hundred
times, I might have to walk awayfeeling unsuccessful a lot, but
I am not going to stop.
That's right.
Right.
Like I think from software,games are about playing a game
(08:59):
with the vision that I'm goingto happen to this game, not this
game is going to happen to me.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
And I really wish, in a way, that I could get in a
time machine and see what itwould be like to actually
practice psychology beforecognitive behavioral therapy
became a thing and made it allabout redirecting your thoughts.
Focus on the positive.
Do not acknowledge the negativeright.
(09:27):
The negative is sometimes verytrue.
You're not good enough to winthis fight.
You can't handle the smoke, butyou know what.
You can learn the mechanics.
You can fail 100 more times and75 of those times you can get a
little closer.
I might have to try 10 moretimes.
I might have to try 100 moretimes.
I might have to try 100 moretimes, but I know I can win this
(09:48):
fight and once you have thatbelief, you're gonna get it I
don't disagree.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
It was a great.
That's a great way to look atit.
I for me, it's like.
What I love about it is you canexplore the game.
But for the most part, when Iget stuck in a spot and I shut
off the game, it almost detersme from playing it because I
(10:17):
know I'm going to turn it on andinstantly be stressed out.
But I just need to overcomethat.
And the other thing I reallywant to do is I want to play it
on my couch in front of the bigtv and I want to see if that's a
difference of me doing thatversus sitting right here in
front of my computer.
(10:38):
You, know what I mean and so I Ineed to try that, because I
feel like I would be in a bettermental state if I'm sitting on
the couch dying, versus sittingin my office, like right in
front of the TV, I mean mycomputer monitor.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
The real trick is realizing every day we live,
we're closer to dying.
Marcus.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
So that's why I love it, but that's why I love my
life every day.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
That's why I love it, but that's why I love my life
every day.
I am so different than youbecause I originally was playing
Elden Ring on my PS5 and it wasreally hard to stay motivated
and to be able to keep doing itthat way, especially because
it's an open world game andthere's so much to figure out
(11:28):
and keep track of.
Right, the map is easy to getlost, it's easy to not know
where you're supposed to go,right, and I really benefited
from switching to playing on mycomputer.
I bought the game on Steam so Icould play on my PC and then I
can have the interactive mapfrom what's it called Fextra
(11:49):
Life.
Yeah, on my right monitor I canclick the checkboxes for what
kinds of things I want to see onthe map and I can also look up
where's this item that I need,what is the closest site of
grace that I can find in thisspot, so that I don't have to
run back through this terriblearea every time I die.
(12:12):
It's like being able toorganize all the information but
also play the game and havethose two screen effect or three
screen.
I have three screens and Ireally use that for work and
everything, and so I justswitched elden ring to a game
that I need to take thatseriously and that helped a lot
(12:36):
yeah, I can see it that way.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
and circling back to from software, they create games
to create stress, but also purejoy.
I am a masochist in the senseof I don't mind beating my head
on a boss forever For that onetime you beat the boss.
That feeling I can date thisback to when I was playing Star
(13:03):
Wars, the Old Republic, and Ibeat the tanks in explosive
conflict on Nightmare and wefinally did it after months of
trying.
I legit screamed at the top ofmy lungs in happiness.
Same thing when I beat oh,what's the name of the boss in
(13:24):
Elden ring.
Oh, my god, that I kept downradon no, radon was easy mog.
I haven't gotten that far um oh,my god, there was a boss.
Oh, it's actually sad.
The tree avatar thing inlindell.
I struggled with that.
It was not even a boss, it'sjust like an enemy.
(13:49):
But I struggled on that thingfor so long and then one day I
turned it on because I hadn'tplayed it in three weeks.
I turned it on, beat it first,try.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Yeah, sometimes you're just thinking too much.
Yeah, yeah, sometimes you'rejust thinking too much, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
So have you played any of the other FromSoft games?
Yeah, when.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
I was a master's student.
That's when Demon's Souls cameout on PS3.
And my friend Gene everyoneknows Gene because he got to
co-host with me for 50 episodeshe told me about this game
months before it came out,really talked it up, talked
about what it was looking like,it was going to be, and I bought
(14:32):
it just because of ourfriendship, not at all
understanding what this game wasgoing to do.
And I loved it because backthen I don't know if anyone
knows this about me because I doplay games on easy.
Now I like to do all thedifficulties and build myself up
to the hardest ones, and if agame super matters to me, I will
(14:54):
do the hardest difficulty.
But back then I did the hardestdifficulty for every game I
owned, no question.
And so when I got Demon's Soulsit does not have a difficulty,
it's just Demon's Souls and thenit was harder than probably
anything I had ever played up tothat point and I didn't quit.
(15:18):
I just pushed my mindset intoI'm going to grind this
character and I'm going to buildup a fighting style that suits
my strengths, which is rangedand magic, and then figuring out
what enemies that I can attackfrom behind and just rip their
(15:40):
soul out from behind.
There was like a move thatwould multiply the souls that
you would get if you could sneakup on certain enemies during
dark alignment, and so I would.
Just, I would sit on the couchwith my laptop doing my grad
school assignments and justrunning those paths, getting all
these souls, and then, when Iwould have hundreds of thousands
(16:03):
of souls, you cash them in tolevel up, and I did eventually
beat Demon's Souls two times.
I never did get a win on thethird playthrough, and then my
PS3 had a corruption on my savefile and the hard drive died,
and so when I got a new PS3, itwas before PS Plus, so I had no
(16:28):
save file for Demon's Souls.
There you go, ps5, demon's Souls.
Have you played that one yet?
Not yet.
Oh, it's so hard.
It's much harder than EldenRing.
It is.
I really feel like it is.
I'm so bad at Demon's Soulscompared to Elden Ring.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
I've been actually thinking about maybe bringing my
PlayStation in my office andjust hooking it up to my
computer, but maybe I just needa new chair.
You know what I'm saying?
I don't know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
I get a new chair.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Or maybe I'm just being lazy and I just want to
sit on a couch.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Do whatever makes you comfortable, Marcus, because
the game is not going to makeyou comfortable.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
No, it's not.
Sometimes I find standing up iseasier to play a game.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
You said something about the reward feeling of
meeting a difficult boss.
Yes, and there is something tobe said there that I know.
For me, the flooding ofdopamine into the emotion reward
centers of my brain, when youaren't sure that you're going to
(17:34):
win, or when you're just doingthe next attempt, not even
thinking this is the one right,you're just like I'm doing it
again because I have to getcloser, and then something
happens where you are closer andyou can't believe it, and then
it can go even further than that, where you're not just closer,
(17:56):
15 more seconds, and that makesyour brain get primed for
possibly even an addiction levelreaction of joy, enthusiastic
joy, joy, enthusiastic joy thatyou don't get in a video game if
(18:30):
you're just expecting to winand move through and see a story
.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, so I'm going to say that there are certain
games that I do.
What did I play that?
I played it on easy, I justplayed it.
I don't even remember, my God,it was on my Switch.
Oh, trials of Mana, right?
Yeah, I played it on Easy orStory whatever, and I loved it
(18:54):
because I was doing it for thestory and, believe it or not, a
few of the boss fights wereactually hard and when I looked
it up they were like, yeah, eventhough you're playing it on
this difficulty, they purposelymade some of the bosses harder
to keep you like, hey, you'vegot to work for it.
You know what I mean.
I did it and I enjoyed thestory of the game and sometimes
(19:14):
that's okay.
But with these games the rewardis beating the boss or an Elden
Ring, like exploring.
Like I really have never beenan explorer, but I found myself
okay.
If I have to go straight, I'mgoing to go as far left as I can
, then up and then cut back downand see what I can find.
(19:37):
There's nothing like findingthat piece of purple light
sticking out of the ground andit's something you're never
going to use, but I found ityeah purple light sticking out
of the ground and it's somethingyou're never going to use, but
I found it.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
yeah, actually, the world of elden ring is so well
developed.
They do a really good job oftelling the story using the map
and the buildings and things,and there is probably not a
single thing in that game thatis just randomly dropped there
Right that, if you look at howthat world is built, I fully
(20:11):
believe everything is deliberate.
Yeah, but there.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Okay, yeah.
So the game is set in somethingcalled the lands between, and
if you read the uh psychology ofElden Ring, You'll hear that in
almost every chapter that theytalk about the lands between.
What is the lands between?
Speaker 1 (20:39):
What is it between?
Or is it just a clever way tosay middle earth without saying
middle earth?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
I'm asking you that.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Really do think that this game was built around some
very powerful ideas that relatedirectly to the kinds of stories
that resonate with us on aspiritual level I don't mean
religions as spiritual levellike there's something innate
(21:08):
inside all of us that react tocertain themes, certain keywords
and phrases, and this is whythe hero's journey exists.
Is because you get a orphanliving on a desert planet or a
cupboard under the stairs with atragic past that they know very
(21:30):
little about and you say sayyou're special, and then years
later, the fate of existencerests on what they do with, how
special their gifts are, and notjust the lands between.
That's the world we're in, thelands between and that cave of.
(21:51):
Oh, what's the first cavecalled?
Speaker 2 (21:55):
it's got a really cool with that, but with, but
with the boss that has the giantnose uh-huh, it's where you
wake up, it's where the oh, caveof oh anticipation
Speaker 1 (22:11):
anticipation, right, okay, so, yeah.
So the anticipation, that'svery meta because it's about us
anticipating playing the game.
Yes, and we create the tarnish.
The tarnish gets the finalshard of the elden ring in the
top of their hand, wakes them up, and now they're bound in their
(22:36):
destiny to these big timeplayers that all have names and
backstories.
And then there's you, theTarnished.
You're just lucky to be here,right, and that kind of
storytelling with the right kindof world, with the right kind
of power that governs existence.
(22:57):
That's what mythology is,marcus, and that's why Elden
ring hits the way it does.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I got Elden ring hits the way it does, because you
can play that game in manydifferent ways, but one thing
connects everybody you still gotto beat the boss.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yeah, yeah, it's such a cool game to analyze how
people play.
There's so many builds thatthere really is the potential to
do psychological analysis witha person.
Look at how they build theircharacter.
(23:40):
Look at how they walk or travelthe wilderness.
Look at how they start bossfights.
Look at how they carrythemselves through boss fights.
Look at what their tendenciesare to survive different things.
Yep, how much do they useshields?
How much do they use quickreaction with dodges?
How much do they jump withtheir swings and use a vertical
(24:04):
attack approach?
How much do they stay on theground and use a a ground attack
their heels and ankles kind ofapproach?
And all of those things canlead to victory if you're good
enough.
So it's really a personalitytest in a way.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
What character did you pick for your first
playthrough?
Speaker 1 (24:31):
The one that is prone to magic.
I believe it's noble.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
I don't know, I'm gonna google, I'm gonna look it
up.
Uh, because now I want to knowstarting classes classes,
classes yep, so you have hero,bandit, astrologer, warrior,
(24:57):
vagabond, wretch, confessor,prisoner, samurai, prophet.
So you were probably theastrologer okay, that sounds
right yeah, because you startwith you, start with 16
intelligence and 15 mind yeah,my first character that I
created was definitely anastrologer.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Then, yeah, that was my outfit for sure, all right.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
What was yours, samurai?
I'm not gonna go to the storeand buy a katana, but I always
was interested in like samuraisand ninjas and stuff like that
as a kid and and I always referto myself as the beverly hills
ninja- you did last episode tooyeah, so it just fit for me to
do it and, like my character, Ipicked the biggest guy I could.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
I played as a pink haired girl.
Yeah, that's like my thing nowit is your thing I also have the
sword from kill bill.
As far as the whole not goingand getting yourself a samurai
sword yeah yeah, yeah either way, I love those movies have you
seen those movies, marcus?
Speaker 2 (26:04):
yeah, of course.
Yeah, so good.
I remember when the number twocame out, the final like that
big fight scene, they had tomake it go black and white
because there was so much blood.
They could not do it on a moviewithout rating it something
higher than r yeah, ah, so goodbut anyway.
(26:25):
So back to elden ring.
What I was saying is I feellike the opening classes say a
lot about yourself withoutsaying it, like the first
playthrough, the first, becausepeople then go back and take
somebody and they stay level one, except they level their weapon
through the whole game and theydon't get hit by anything,
which is just mind-boggling tome it really is mind-boggling
(26:48):
but my point is your openingclass is just a start.
So I was like I literally sat atthat screen for 20 minutes
trying to figure it out andpeople would tell me look, it's
just your starting class.
Where you start is not whereyou finish, and I was like
really, they're like no, you canbe anything you want as the
(27:12):
game goes on.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Like they tell us in elementary school before they
let adulthood crush us into noself-esteem or hope for the
future Like Elden Ring.
Oh my gosh.
Elden Ring is just our societyso it's for me now I looked at
(27:44):
it as okay, what am I?
Speaker 2 (27:46):
what is going to give me the best shot to win?
So I picked the samurai becauseit came with an uji katana,
which is a great sword to startwith.
You got a bow and arrow, whichis good to maybe catch the
attention of one of the soldiers, and you want to pull them
towards you without pulling thewhole mob.
That actually worked out reallywell for me in the beginning,
(28:06):
and the uji and your dexteritywas pretty high to start.
So all around it was a greatclass for me to start with, but
I ended up staying or I stillhave a katana which I use the
Moonveil katana, but that is amagic katana, so I put more into
(28:27):
intelligence than I havedexterity.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
My main setup is double moon veil.
Katana, wait, how do you gettwo?
You gotta do a secondplaythrough and l1 instead of r1
.
You have a different combo,when your two weapons match,
(29:02):
right yeah you do the yeah, it'sa it's many more hits in the
general combo.
So the reason I do that isbecause my magic is maxed.
So those two swords, if I'm ina melee situation, give me a lot
(29:23):
of opportunity to kill thingsquickly.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Yeah, I, when you said that it I don't know why it
made me think of bringing themilkshake to the yard, but I
don't know, my moon veil, bringall the boys to the yard.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah, I don't even know, marcus hey, that's okay.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
can you tell me how you felt when you left the cave
of anticipation and you openedup those two doors to this
bright yellow?
I'm closing my eyes, thinkingabout the sun coming out and it
says Limgrave, and you'relooking out at the distance like
how far am I going to get to go?
Speaker 1 (30:07):
here.
You see the Erd tree too, right, it's a really big moment.
It actually reminds me ofJourney, right?
You see the goal from the verybeginning of the game and you
just know it's going to take alot to get there, creating a
(30:35):
promise with you that if youdon't give up, this is where
you're going to make it, andthose are really powerful
moments.
And actually my chapter inPsychology of Elden Ring is my
answer to that question.
What I just said in words,verbally, is my chapter that I
instantly felt the journey inElden Ring.
Even though there's not long cutscenes in the story, you have
(30:58):
to pursue it yourself in orderto understand it.
The story is not actually inthe game, so to speak.
The story is about the game,and a lot of game players have
created YouTube videos that arereally awesome to explain the
lore and dissect everything, andthat's how you really come to
(31:20):
understand where you're going onthe map and why you're going
there, and when you understandthat this game is so much bigger
than just a super hard videogame.
So the Erdtree is a promise ofhow special the game is going to
(31:40):
be if you stick with it.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
The game is amazing.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
It's hard, though you have to attack this game in a
very different way than othergames, but if you let yourself
go there mentally, it canactually help you play other
games too, because you have tolet that part of you where
(32:09):
success decides how good you arepart of you where success
decides how good you are youhave to let it fall asleep or
die.
You know that losing is part ofthe game.
Now, falling short and havingto do a section again, it's part
of the experience, and you haveto take that positive from just
(32:32):
getting a little closer yeah,but again, how did you feel when
you walked through those twodoors?
Speaker 2 (32:44):
give me like, close your eyes and like think about
that moment just for a second.
Take your time and actuallythink about the moment you
walked out of there.
What was the first thing thatlike popped into your head?
I think?
Speaker 1 (32:58):
I would say it's amazement that I couldn't fully
appreciate what this video gamewas trying to give me.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
I just knew it was amazing and you just want to
play more.
Then you go down the hill andthe gold guy on the horse is
right there and then the feelingchanges a little bit.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
I was trolled by my chat when I first did it.
They're like, hey, you have togo fight this boss.
And I was like all right, so Iwent.
I must have died 15 times and Ifinally was like I can't like
this guy is one-shotting me andokay, hit Marcus.
(33:43):
Yeah, that's the key, that thatwas the ultimate troll, marcus,
have you tried rolling yet?
That was the big comment allthe time.
Marcus, you should try rolling,I am rolling.
It didn't look like you rolled,it looked like you took a hit.
You know they trolled me sohard.
This was probably one of the.
This was probably the firstgame I rage quit in 10 years.
(34:08):
Yeah, but I'm going to say whenI first started playing this
and now I did not play this onlaunch, I played it a year later
or more, I'm just so.
I remember going through thecave and my eyes are closed
because I'm remembering this andI was coming through and there
(34:30):
was this like smoke wall on myright-hand side before I walked
outside and it said you need asword stone key to enter.
And I'm like what is a swordstone key?
I have no idea what that is.
And I was like all right,whatever.
And I was like all right,whatever.
(34:50):
So I walked to the door and itopened and I can remember
watching the bushes blow aroundand I could almost feel like I
could smell the fresh air afterbeing in the cage, the cave.
But the one thing that was mostdistinct to me was how far you
(35:12):
could see in the distance.
I stood there and my eyes areclosed because I can remember it
like it was yesterday and youremember like you're looking as
far as you can see in the gameand you're like I have to
explore all of this, wow.
And then you take your firstthree steps or five steps and
(35:36):
there's this thing on the groundand you click it and it's a
grace and it that is oh, my eyesare open now, and that starts
your journey into the game and Iliterally oh, oh, I have
goosebumps right now Justthinking about it.
Yeah, cause that moment isthere's.
(35:57):
There's many moments in gamesthat give have given me
goosebumps, but that is one thatI will never forget.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
The difference in our answers.
There is such an interestingcomparison of our personality
types.
So everyone that knows mealready if you're not familiar
with me, I'm going to introduceyou to the beginning of my
gaming research, which usedpersonality testing to break
down how people play andexperience video games
(36:27):
differently.
And the first study I ever diduse the Myers-Briggs type
indicator, which gives us allfour letters and that's our
personality type the majority ofthe time.
But we fluctuate, right, and wegrow and we change over the
years.
But my four letters are prettymuch locked in, marcus, yours
are probably pretty much lockedin.
My description of what it waslike to walk through those doors
(36:52):
was more intuitive.
It was more of a like.
Here's what logic allows me toremember.
Yours was much more based inyour senses and your
appreciation of what it was likein a tactile way, like the
bushes and the wind and thedistance and the visuals.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
Those are all senses.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Yeah, absolutely.
So what I broke down there isthe daunting understanding of
what challenge is in front of meand yours is.
I have five senses and I canactually taste this video game,
which to me is bonkers.
(37:38):
But that's why I lovepsychology and personality
testing and that's why, nomatter how many times people try
to troll and critique me onlineand talk about why they don't
like the myers-briggs, becausetheir letters are always wrong
and whatever.
Listen, your letters changebased on what you want to answer
for those questions.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
You broke down really well, regardless of if you have
an S for that second letter oran N, like me.
Your answer was the S answerand mine was the N answer.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
And I think the only time you truly get an accurate
characterization of yourself isthe first time you do it,
because the first time you do it, I feel feel like you answer it
honestly, and the second timeyou overthink it I'm gonna go
(38:38):
doc mode on you, marcus.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
I'm gonna explain why you're not wrong, but I want to
explain what actually happensin those tests.
That makes a lot of people'sassumptions wrong, okay.
So if I ask you, how much doyou enjoy Elden Ring on a scale
of one to 10?
All right, give me a number,okay.
(39:01):
Then I ask you 12 otherquestions that are all random
and about not that.
Then I ask you how much do youdread playing Elden Ring One to
10.
Okay.
And then I ask you again,marcus, how much do you enjoy
the time that you get where youpotentially could choose to play
Elden Ring 10.
(39:22):
Okay.
And then I ask you how awareare you that playing Elden Ring
could make your day feel moredifficult?
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Repeat the question.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
It doesn't matter, just give me a number.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
A nine.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Okay, so I asked you four questions right there.
They were all the same question.
Okay, they were just aimed indifferent directions.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
I actually yeah, but you asked how much does it
frustrate me?
Essentially, it frustrates meat a 10.
But how much do I love it?
It also means a 10.
But those are two differentquestions.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Only to you, because you don't study psych tests
right.
So here's the thing, Marcus.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
I just got shunned.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
How much do you enjoy playing video games?
Speaker 3 (40:13):
out of 10.
8 out of 10.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
How much does a day feel more stressful when you
know there is no chance to playa video game?
And then you answer that couldbe a 2, could be a 7 I don't
care.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Okay, right, I'm starting to see.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
So if you're thirsty, how nice would it be to have a
coke, right?
If you're not thirsty, how muchdoes it bother you to not have
a Coke?
Those are measuring the samething.
And then people complain to meyou ask the same question so
many times.
Then it's your job to answerthe same thing every time,
because what I'm checking is notwhat your answer is.
I'm checking how consistent yourthought process is and just by
(40:49):
me changing the phrasing of theword, I'm figuring the phrasing
of the question.
Let me say that again, just byme asking the question with
different phrasing, I'm notmeasuring your answer.
I'm measuring your answercompared to the way you've
answered that question exactlythe same way five minutes ago.
And if you change, that makesyou closer to neutral.
(41:11):
But if you stay extreme yes,having a coke helps me with
thirst.
No, not having a coke would bevery difficult when I'm thirsty,
right.
If you answer the oppositeextreme and you're basically
giving the same answer and nowyou're very highly in the I
prefer to drink Coca-Cola, groupRight.
(41:33):
And people get angry and saythese tests are bogus online all
the time.
And I'm just laughing.
You don't even understand whatwe're doing to you.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
I don't, I just got.
I absolutely don't like.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
I need Elden Ring for my day to feel complete playing
elden ring makes my day feelincomplete, right, those?
Speaker 2 (41:57):
that's what I'm saying yeah, I, I don't disagree
, but after talking about this,it is true and you actually blew
my mind.
You've only done it a few times, but that was just like wow.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yeah, so Moonveil Katana makes the game better.
Not having the Moonveil Katanamakes the game worse.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
So we can be honest.
I just purchased Elden Ring forthe PS5.
Oh, wow, it's going to be at myhouse tomorrow, so I'm torn
Start over no, there's somethingto be at my house tomorrow, so
I'm torn Start over no, there'ssomething I can do somehow Watch
the YouTube video I got to doit when I can get my save data
from my PC and link it to thePS5.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
There's a way to transfer your data.
I would love to play Elden Ringwith my PC character and take
my 99 magic onto the PS5.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
So there's that and part of me says, maybe I try a
different character, but I feellike I have to beat the game
before I make another character.
There's no reason to makeanother character, marcus,
because you can go into theacademia castle oh yeah, I can
(43:17):
go see rinaldi, sure, but no, Iguess what I'm saying is this if
I can't figure out how totransfer the data, yeah that's
what I have to figure out.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
That's number one priority does it invalidate your
ability to earn trophies?
I don't care about that, oh Ido, like what's the difference?
Speaker 2 (43:37):
I'm not changing the game, you know what I mean.
I'm just transferring my savedata.
You know, like I don't care ifI get the trophy on steam or the
achievement on steam or thetrophy on the playstation, I
don't.
I don't play games for trophies, I play games because I enjoy
them in general.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
That is true for me too, but when there's a game
that is now, I am caught.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
That is the biggest crock of shit.
Nobody listening to thispodcast believe what he's saying
.
He cares so much he cares somuch for a trophy, he will grind
for hours and hours to get that100.
Do not listen to what he'ssaying the game matters to me.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
What marcus just said is true.
That's where I was going is, ifthe game doesn't matter to me
in the grand scheme of my life,then I can play it on easy and
finish the story and be done,and that was very nice.
But elden ring has done a lotfor me in life.
Um, I've done panels about itat conventions, and not just the
(44:45):
ones in florida, I think.
Yeah, my first panel I ever didwas on soulsborne games, right
after Elden Ring came out, andthat was my introduction to the
Geek Therapeutics people.
They were asking me if I wasnervous, if I was going to be
okay, if I had an idea what Iwas going to say, and I didn't
(45:05):
understand that.
They were checking if I wasgoing to be able to do the panel
.
I think they have a lot ofpeople that are anxious if I was
going to be able to do thepanel.
I think they have a lot ofpeople that are anxious, and I
just love when people give me amicrophone, marcus, and a chance
to talk.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Really.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
I wouldn't know that.
Yeah, I even do it for fun inmy free time.
Oh shit, okay, this has to bethe best conversation we've ever
had anyway, moving on, let meask you a question.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Yeah, who in the game was your fate?
Is your favorite npc?
Speaker 1 (45:49):
ranny giant wizard hat.
She's my soulmate.
Yeah, I got it.
I gotta save the world for her.
I just I think that whole questline if you can complete the
game and fix the elden ring forher, that is my preferred ending
and the endings that we go forwere a big component of my
(46:13):
chapter and that's why I neededto go and finish the game five
times.
There's one ending that I'venever earned and it bothers me,
but I just don't know, becauseevery time you clear it, things
feel harder the next time and Idon't know what it is about the
(46:37):
attempt to finish it the sixthtime.
But I'm dying so easy and Ialmost think that starting a new
character would be the betterchoice if I want that sixth
ending to see it with my owneyes.
Choice if I want that sixthending to see it with my own
eyes.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
Yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
What NPCs did you resonate with the most so far?
Speaker 2 (47:02):
It's hard for me to say because, Believe it or not,
what is the woman who hugs you?
Speaker 1 (47:13):
Oh darn it.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
I don't remember her name.
Believe it or not, her.
That's such a good story too,like and in that it's going to
lead us into the next part ofthis conversation.
But when I came in and she'sjust wanted a hug and I'm like
(47:42):
subconsciously in the back of myhead, I'm like fuck, I want a
hug she's gonna give you debuffs, marcus, you got her, yeah, but
you don't know that, you don'tknow that on the front end.
And then all of a sudden you seethis weird like arrow pointing
up and you're like what is thatall about?
Speaker 1 (47:58):
If you got education from the same schools that I did
, you would be very suspiciousof what kind of communicable
debuffs she's about to give you.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
So the point is, I resonated with her a lot and um,
I love ranny like she's perfectwith all four of her arms yeah
and I don't know for me, not me,it's her face, she.
(48:30):
She looks so innocent.
But anyway, the way she spokeand she's like a hug and you're
just I could feel it in reallife and that resonated with me
a lot.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
Right.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
Why?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
It's such a brutal world that you're in.
Everything wants to kill you,and so for one person to just
make it all about that kind ofcloseness, the intimacy of being
alive and just connecting in anon-threatening way, I think
(49:08):
that's a really tender moment tohave in a game that's so much
about despair.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
Yeah, and that leads me into the game of their quests
.
So their quests are not normal.
And I say normal in the senseof you meet somebody.
If you're not listening to whatthey say, you will never hear
it again.
It's gone for good.
Speaker 3 (49:30):
Like there's.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
There's no quest log or journal.
It's hey, who's this guy?
And he starts rambling and mykid walks through the door and I
listen and I it's gone for good, like game over, don't know
what just happened.
And then you find them sevenhours later at the corner of a
building selling crack cocainebecause they, they, you didn't
(49:52):
do their quest and they'restarving and they got to make
some money.
You know what I mean yeah,there's.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
There's a brother quest where you meet somebody in
the in the hold whereeverything's peaceful and you
just buy stuff and, yeah, theround table hold.
I remember Wes asked me once ifI did the quest and found his
brother or something.
I had no idea what he wastalking about.
(50:18):
And then my next playthrough, Iheard the conversation again.
I was like, oh my gosh, thatguy is totally hinting for me to
help him and I still didn'tfollow the hint.
I didn't understand what he wassaying.
I could just tell the secondtime after that conversation
(50:40):
that's a quest that I'm supposedto do.
I still don't think I've donethat quest correctly.
There's always something whereI get lost and I can't figure it
out.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Yeah, I did one where I talked to this female and I
went and did a bunch of stuffand when I came back she was
slaughtered on the ground.
I felt terrible.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
That always happens.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
You can't save her.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
I feel so much better right now.
Speaker 3 (51:15):
You actually are just helping her to get a letter or
something to help you moveforward.
She's the sacrifice for yoursuccess.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
Wow, wow I thought I messed that up all this time.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
Yeah yeah, and then there's the girl that needs you
to get the needle so that youcan carve the rod off of her,
and then eventually, shebasically becomes millennia.
I don't know, I don't know ifI'm interpreting that correctly,
but it just seems like you doan exorbitant amount of work to
save this girl and it just leadsto you finding the door to
(51:50):
fight Millenia.
I don't know what you'retalking about.
Oh, she's like the best boss inthe whole game.
People say she's the hardest.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
No, I'm saying the girl that you're like helping.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Oh, there's a church over in Caelid and she's dying
from the rot and she asks you togo find a gold needle.
So then you go into the swampand win a boss fight and get the
gold needle and then you showit to the guy who's in the
rocking chair in the little hutnext to the city that's down the
street from the church and youjust go back and forth passing
(52:23):
the needle around all thesepeople until you eventually
carve the rot off of her skinand then you have to go find her
a prosthetic arm.
And then you get her aprosthetic arm and then she
feels like she's ambulatory nowso she can start walking around.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
You start meeting her different is that michael's arm
in that the shaded castle?
I think so I have that, but Idon't think I've ever done that
quest.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
I don't even know you didn't give it to the girl
that's missing an arm.
I don't even know if I knowMonster.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
I don't even know where the girl is.
I'm going to look this upbecause, see, this is why this
game is so good.
Speaker 3 (53:00):
Right, there's no markers above people's heads
with exclamation points thatsays, hey, pay attention to me
and figure this out.
So just for you.
You walk through a church, sawa girl dying from rot, missing
an arm, and you have aprosthetic arm and you're just
like whatever, I gotta get tothe retreat.
(53:22):
You have her arm in yourinventory, marcus.
Oh my god, I've never fallenapart like this on the podcast
(53:42):
this is the best podcast ever.
Speaker 2 (53:45):
I have no idea like, but so you're helping my point
right.
You're helping my point right.
You're helping me say that,like, the quest lines are so
incredible, but I don't evenknow what the hell I'm doing.
Speaker 3 (53:57):
Right.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
I met some idiot in a tower and he was rude to me and
I just wanted to kill him andhe was like go get me some
scrolls.
And then I go find some scrollsand he has a bunch of people
tied up to walls and there'ssome sorcerer that's like in a
jail, and I'm like what the hellis going on here?
Did I just find like a fuckingkidnapping ring?
What the fuck is going on rightnow?
(54:20):
Celibus, sleuth, celibus, oh mygosh, he's the worst.
Yeah, he's the worst.
But I just stumbled upon him.
It was during Ronnie or Ranny'squest, and I'm like, okay, I'm
going to go over to this towerand then this guy's just an Uber
jerk face to me and I'm likewhat is happening?
These quests are so incredible,but if you don't pay attention,
(54:42):
it's you're gone.
It's gone, gone for good.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
Unless you start over and get one more chance to
listen better.
Speaker 2 (54:51):
No, I think you don't have to.
I think you can.
I think at this point it's okayto do the Google.
Speaker 3 (54:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (54:58):
But my favorite part of the game believe well, not
really the favorite One of thefavorite parts of the game are
these white spots on the groundwhere you can click on them and
they have messages from peopleand they're just so dumb, dumb,
sometimes, like this is a walltry finger but hole yes exactly
(55:25):
yeah and oh.
but sometimes they'll give you,with a good thing, ambush on
right and left and you're like,oh shit, I'm about to die.
Because let me tell you thosebone guys in the catacombs that,
like you don't realize, you gotto hit them once they're dead,
because they're going to comeback to life.
I didn't realize that I keptrunning through the joint and
(55:47):
then all of a sudden I had nineof them on me and I got the you
died screen.
Speaker 1 (55:52):
Yeah, absolutely so.
The reason that I think fromsoftware games are so compelling
and this goes back to when Iwas playing Demon's Souls this
was one of the earliestrealizations that made me think
this game is something that I'mreally going to enjoy In all the
games I've ever played up tothat point.
(56:14):
So we're talking Devil May Cry,resident Evil, we're talking
Final Fantasy, we're talkingMario, we're talking all of it.
You get hit by something.
You have your little hearts oryour health bar.
You lose one of them, no matterwhat, the thing is right.
Link gets hit by a fireball.
He has 18 heart containers andhe loses one heart from that
(56:38):
fireball, maybe three In EldenRing and in Demon's Souls and
Dark Souls.
My mentality of how I understanddamage is it's going to hurt
your health bar the same amountthat it would hurt you if it
happened to you.
So, like an arrow to your knee,I now have 10% health.
(57:02):
It did 90% health.
I'm going to die now because Icannot take an arrow to the knee
, marcus, and still be anadventurer, all right, it's just
not in me.
You know, a rolling rockcrushes you.
You're dead, right, 100% dead.
I'm not surviving that.
(57:23):
There's no secret path to rollin like Indiana Jones You're
just dead.
Speaker 2 (57:28):
But then there's the giant arrows that those monsters
shoot when you're on top of themountain and they stick in you
and they stay there and you justlike 4% health and you're like
I can't do anything.
Speaker 1 (57:42):
Yeah yeah, you're still dying, right?
I just like the idea that thephysicality of your character is
connected to your health bar,that you are as dead on your
health bar as you would be ifthis happened to your actual
body.
Speaker 2 (58:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (58:02):
So if you don't want to take a fireball to the face
in real life, don't take thatfireball to the face in Elden
Ring.
It's not going to go well foryou.
Speaker 2 (58:14):
Yeah, oh and oh.
There was another part in thegame where I was running up a
hill and I had to get somewhereand all of a sudden I got like
this thing called madness, andit was the first time ever and
it killed me and I had no ideahow to beat it and it ended up
being the Eye of Sauron that youhad to hide from.
Speaker 1 (58:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
And I was like, did they just put Lord of the Rings
in this game Lands?
Speaker 1 (58:40):
Between is a synonym for Middle Earth.
Elden Ring, the One Ring.
It's all over the place.
It's like George RR Martin'sFantasy that he could write His
own version of Lord of the Rings.
Speaker 2 (58:58):
Who's Samwise Gamgee you.
Who's Frodo Me?
I don't know.
Did you really just do that?
Speaker 3 (59:18):
I've told you that before I know you walked right
into that.
Speaker 1 (59:23):
That's been a every time I need a pep talk because
I'm doubting my content creatorjourney and I talked to marcus.
He's earned over the years forme that he's my sam.
Speaker 2 (59:35):
That's just what it is oh shit, all right, I think.
I think this discussion is notover, because there's a lot more
of Elden Ring we should talkabout between Elden Ring, the
DLC and Night Rain, but I thinkwe save it for another podcast.
Speaker 1 (59:57):
Yeah, just so everyone who's listening knows,
the reason we didn't really talkabout Shadow of the Erdtree is
because I never really investedmyself in Shadow of the Erdtree.
It's something I think aboutall the time.
I beat a couple bosses, I founda couple of the things to level
up and then I just stoppedplaying because reasons I just
(01:00:20):
got busy.
I started traveling for workstuff in the summer and never
went back to it.
So someday we're gonna have totalk about shadow the earth tree
.
We're gonna have to talk aboutwhen you become elden lord and
we're gonna have to talk aboutShadow the Erdtree we're going
to have to talk about when youbecome Elden Lord and we're
going to have to talk aboutNight Rain.
Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
So let's you know what.
Let's continue thisconversation next week.
Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Also, I have a bucket list goal that we got to figure
out that seamless co-op mod,because I think that would be so
fun.
Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
I agree that could be in episode two.
Mods are not really officialcontent, but the way this game
works, it really feels like that.
One has elevated the profile ofthe game to where people are
that interested about that modin particular.
It allows two or more people toactually connect and not in the
(01:01:19):
I don't remember what they callit.
There is a way to connect justfor boss fights, but this mod
allows you to connect for thetraveling part too, and I really
would love to do that.
It just seems like that wouldmake the game so much more of a
fun experience instead of adaunting, frustrating,
demoralizing experience.
It's, it would be fun.
(01:01:42):
Yeah, so we're gonna talk moreElden Ring next week.
Yeah, everyone, before you go,I just need you to remember one
thing, because you listened tothis very long, very
entertaining episode.
You are all made in Liss.
Continue the journey, thank you.
Welcome to the Gaming Persona Podcast.
This is the show that exploreswho we become when we play games
, whether you're saving kingdoms, leading epic raids or just
vibing in cozy indie worlds.
Join me, dr Gamology and mygood friend Marcus as we search
for all the ways gaming andpersonal growth collide.
Grab your controllers and let'scontinue the journey Now.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
How good is the new intro, Like how really good is
it?
You know, when something isgood and then there's great.
Actually, have you ever seenthe movie Miracle?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Like the hockey movie .
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
No, but I do know that we kicked their ass and we
won that game.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yes, that's just like what hopefully we're going to
do to Canada tonight.
But no, but back to the intro.
It's what you outdid yourself.
It's good, I like it.
I like it, but I got to circleback.
So this week I just a little IMarcus fighting moment.
(01:05):
Okay, so I was on the ice and Iwas playing and I was fighting
for the puck in the corner.
Okay, this is real, this isn'tNHL 25.
This is me on the ice.
So a guy comes in, he's tryingto get the puck and I'm digging,
I'm like hiding it inside myskates and because I'm waiting
for a player to come over so Ican kick the puck out, so the
(01:28):
second player comes over and hestarts fucking jamming me into
the wall and I'm like, all right, this is a non-checking league,
I'm not going to be that guy.
He gave me a cross check and ithurt Like he railed my back.
I came up and elbowed him inthis cage of his mask.
He did a flying.
Remember in Mortal Kombat I'mcircling back Remember, when you
(01:51):
uppercutted the guy into thepit in their arms?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Okay, he did that onto the ice and I took the
penalty.
It was fine, like it's okay,but my point is I had my own
real life fatality this week.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Hans Gruber at the end of Die Hard oh.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I just had to share it.
That's my sidebar of the day.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
That's so good.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
And now we got to check the box for mature content
on our podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
What do you mean?
New ground?
I think I swear more than mosthumans alive you have not sworn
in the last five episodes.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Marcus, you might've said shit one time, but is that
really a swear?
No Cause.
I remember as a child whenSouth park got permission to use
that word on television andthey did it like 200 times yeah,
I do remember that episode yeah, although it's funny when
(02:54):
you're watching wwe.
Now they can't.
They just mute entire segmentsof nxt because the Orlando crowd
that's apparently our onlyvocabulary word.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
I thought it's they have to when they do the holy
shit chant like they actually do.
It's like in the contract thatthey have to mute it.
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Yeah, because we can't have people who watch CW
or USA being aware that wordexists.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Tonight is a special night because we're going to get
into Elden Ring and I'm justgoing to preference this that
I'm a failure.
Yeah, you're showing up thebook you wrote the final chapter
in and I have not beaten it,but I have a lot to say about it
.
And I have a lot to say aboutNight Rain, the network test.
(03:46):
I'm going to let you tell us alittle bit about From Software,
because I think they're the mostmasochistic people that have
ever created a video game.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Okay, I actually have a mental health angle here.
It goes all the way back to thefoundation of psychology with
sigmund freud and carl young soshould I do the rewind?
Yes, it's 1908 and sigmundfreud is making us believe
everything we do psychologicallyis because of our sexual urges,
(04:19):
related to our upbringing andrelationship with our mother.
And but it's early 1900s.
I promise it's not super gross,it's just regular gross.
This is where psychologystarted everyone, and I wish I
was joking, but my sarcasm isactually founded in a lot of
truth here.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Sarcasm is at an all-time high right now.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yes, absolutely so.
I just want to say, as aprofessor, I teach counseling
theories a lot.
It's the course that I teachthe second most now, but the
first five years of my teachingcareer I by far taught this
class more than any other class.
Okay, and during that time Igrew a real love and passion for
(05:04):
understanding why we talk intherapy with certain keywords
and phrases and how we build aperson towards growth, but using
our theories.
So the theory is a set of ideasand philosophies that help us
to make sense of a situation,ideas and philosophies that help
(05:26):
us to make sense of a situation.
It creates our understanding ofwhy things are a problem and it
creates a pathway forunderstanding how to resolve
that issue and move forward.
The better for it.
And a lot of negativity comes upin modern times towards those
early psychological theoriesbecause they were the beginning
right.
So think about A New Hope inStar Wars, marcus.
It's a classic, it is awonderful movie, it is perfect
(05:53):
as far as what could be done in1977.
But George Lucas needed to fixit in 1997, and then he needed
to fix it again in 2004.
And then we keep getting tweaks, and now grito shoots first and
says some funky phrase at thebeginning mcgruber or something
I don't remember what he saysnow yeah.
(06:16):
So my point is that, just likethose early psychological
theories and just like star wars, episode 4 and new hope, which
originally was just Star Wars wetake something that was usable
in the past and was viewed asreally helpful, cutting edge and
well thought, and then we haveto adapt it to modernity.
(06:40):
Right, we have to make it workright now.
And those early psychologicaltheories were actually not just
about being efficient in life,not just about pushing down our
negative thoughts and twistingthem into positive.
Just think positive, like toxicpositivity, a lot of basic
(07:03):
psychological approaches.
Now they prioritize efficiencyover enduring the struggle and
if there is a struggle, webypass it instead of helping
people dive into it and overcomeit.
Okay, and from software gamesare like those early 1900
(07:27):
psychological theories wherethey're saying here's a struggle
, are you gonna do it?
Are you gonna be a whiny littlebitch and quit this game too?
And I think that a lot ofpeople in my YouTube comments,
for example and pardon theswearing and harsh words, I know
(07:47):
it's a little different thannormal, but I really have a
passionate perspective on whyElden Ring games matter and I
think that is the edge that Ifeel when I'm talking about it.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
And I'm just going to preference this doc.
It and I'm just gonnapreference this doc.
So all you doc is on a wholenew level of energy.
So he's bringing the swears,he's bringing the anger and he's
bringing it all to us todayyeah, I think that.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Remember, I'm a counselor too.
I do psychotherapy with people,I train other counselors.
I get to hear about all theircases and there are a lot of
people in this world where theygot to get the fight in them.
It's not just about runningfrom our problems, it's about
believing in ourself that if Igo into that room I can take
(08:38):
this problem on and it mighthurt a few times, a few hundred
times, I might have to walk awayfeeling unsuccessful a lot, but
I am not going to stop.
That's right.
Right.
Like I think from software,games are about playing a game
(08:59):
with the vision that I'm goingto happen to this game, not this
game is going to happen to me.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
And I really wish, in a way, that I could get in a
time machine and see what itwould be like to actually
practice psychology beforecognitive behavioral therapy
became a thing and made it allabout redirecting your thoughts.
Focus on the positive.
Do not acknowledge the negativeright.
(09:27):
The negative is sometimes verytrue.
You're not good enough to winthis fight.
You can't handle the smoke, butyou know what.
You can learn the mechanics.
You can fail 100 more times and75 of those times you can get a
little closer.
I might have to try 10 moretimes.
I might have to try 100 moretimes.
I might have to try 100 moretimes, but I know I can win this
(09:48):
fight and once you have thatbelief, you're gonna get it I
don't disagree.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
It was a great.
That's a great way to look atit.
I for me, it's like.
What I love about it is you canexplore the game.
But for the most part, when Iget stuck in a spot and I shut
off the game, it almost detersme from playing it because I
(10:17):
know I'm going to turn it on andinstantly be stressed out.
But I just need to overcomethat.
And the other thing I reallywant to do is I want to play it
on my couch in front of the bigtv and I want to see if that's a
difference of me doing thatversus sitting right here in
front of my computer.
(10:38):
You, know what I mean and so I Ineed to try that, because I
feel like I would be in a bettermental state if I'm sitting on
the couch dying, versus sittingin my office, like right in
front of the TV, I mean mycomputer monitor.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
The real trick is realizing every day we live,
we're closer to dying.
Marcus.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
So that's why I love it, but that's why I love my
life every day.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
That's why I love it, but that's why I love my life
every day.
I am so different than youbecause I originally was playing
Elden Ring on my PS5 and it wasreally hard to stay motivated
and to be able to keep doing itthat way, especially because
it's an open world game andthere's so much to figure out
(11:28):
and keep track of.
Right, the map is easy to getlost, it's easy to not know
where you're supposed to go,right, and I really benefited
from switching to playing on mycomputer.
I bought the game on Steam so Icould play on my PC and then I
can have the interactive mapfrom what's it called Fextra
(11:49):
Life.
Yeah, on my right monitor I canclick the checkboxes for what
kinds of things I want to see onthe map and I can also look up
where's this item that I need,what is the closest site of
grace that I can find in thisspot, so that I don't have to
run back through this terriblearea every time I die.
(12:12):
It's like being able toorganize all the information but
also play the game and havethose two screen effect or three
screen.
I have three screens and Ireally use that for work and
everything, and so I justswitched elden ring to a game
that I need to take thatseriously and that helped a lot
(12:36):
yeah, I can see it that way.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
and circling back to from software, they create games
to create stress, but also purejoy.
I am a masochist in the senseof I don't mind beating my head
on a boss forever For that onetime you beat the boss.
That feeling I can date thisback to when I was playing Star
(13:03):
Wars, the Old Republic, and Ibeat the tanks in explosive
conflict on Nightmare and wefinally did it after months of
trying.
I legit screamed at the top ofmy lungs in happiness.
Same thing when I beat oh,what's the name of the boss in
(13:24):
Elden ring.
Oh, my god, that I kept downradon no, radon was easy mog.
I haven't gotten that far um oh,my god, there was a boss.
Oh, it's actually sad.
The tree avatar thing inlindell.
I struggled with that.
It was not even a boss, it'sjust like an enemy.
(13:49):
But I struggled on that thingfor so long and then one day I
turned it on because I hadn'tplayed it in three weeks.
I turned it on, beat it first,try.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Yeah, sometimes you're just thinking too much.
Yeah, yeah, sometimes you'rejust thinking too much, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
So have you played any of the other FromSoft games?
Yeah, when.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
I was a master's student.
That's when Demon's Souls cameout on PS3.
And my friend Gene everyoneknows Gene because he got to
co-host with me for 50 episodeshe told me about this game
months before it came out,really talked it up, talked
about what it was looking like,it was going to be, and I bought
(14:32):
it just because of ourfriendship, not at all
understanding what this game wasgoing to do.
And I loved it because backthen I don't know if anyone
knows this about me because I doplay games on easy.
Now I like to do all thedifficulties and build myself up
to the hardest ones, and if agame super matters to me, I will
(14:54):
do the hardest difficulty.
But back then I did the hardestdifficulty for every game I
owned, no question.
And so when I got Demon's Soulsit does not have a difficulty,
it's just Demon's Souls and thenit was harder than probably
anything I had ever played up tothat point and I didn't quit.
(15:18):
I just pushed my mindset intoI'm going to grind this
character and I'm going to buildup a fighting style that suits
my strengths, which is rangedand magic, and then figuring out
what enemies that I can attackfrom behind and just rip their
(15:40):
soul out from behind.
There was like a move thatwould multiply the souls that
you would get if you could sneakup on certain enemies during
dark alignment, and so I would.
Just, I would sit on the couchwith my laptop doing my grad
school assignments and justrunning those paths, getting all
these souls, and then, when Iwould have hundreds of thousands
(16:03):
of souls, you cash them in tolevel up, and I did eventually
beat Demon's Souls two times.
I never did get a win on thethird playthrough, and then my
PS3 had a corruption on my savefile and the hard drive died,
and so when I got a new PS3, itwas before PS Plus, so I had no
(16:28):
save file for Demon's Souls.
There you go, ps5, demon's Souls.
Have you played that one yet?
Not yet.
Oh, it's so hard.
It's much harder than EldenRing.
It is.
I really feel like it is.
I'm so bad at Demon's Soulscompared to Elden Ring.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
I've been actually thinking about maybe bringing my
PlayStation in my office andjust hooking it up to my
computer, but maybe I just needa new chair.
You know what I'm saying?
I don't know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
I get a new chair.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Or maybe I'm just being lazy and I just want to
sit on a couch.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Do whatever makes you comfortable, Marcus, because
the game is not going to makeyou comfortable.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
No, it's not.
Sometimes I find standing up iseasier to play a game.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
You said something about the reward feeling of
meeting a difficult boss.
Yes, and there is something tobe said there that I know.
For me, the flooding ofdopamine into the emotion reward
centers of my brain, when youaren't sure that you're going to
(17:34):
win, or when you're just doingthe next attempt, not even
thinking this is the one right,you're just like I'm doing it
again because I have to getcloser, and then something
happens where you are closer andyou can't believe it, and then
it can go even further than that, where you're not just closer,
(17:56):
15 more seconds, and that makesyour brain get primed for
possibly even an addiction levelreaction of joy, enthusiastic
joy, joy, enthusiastic joy thatyou don't get in a video game if
(18:30):
you're just expecting to winand move through and see a story
.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, so I'm going to say that there are certain
games that I do.
What did I play that?
I played it on easy, I justplayed it.
I don't even remember, my God,it was on my Switch.
Oh, trials of Mana, right?
Yeah, I played it on Easy orStory whatever, and I loved it
(18:54):
because I was doing it for thestory and, believe it or not, a
few of the boss fights wereactually hard and when I looked
it up they were like, yeah, eventhough you're playing it on
this difficulty, they purposelymade some of the bosses harder
to keep you like, hey, you'vegot to work for it.
You know what I mean.
I did it and I enjoyed thestory of the game and sometimes
(19:14):
that's okay.
But with these games the rewardis beating the boss or an Elden
Ring, like exploring.
Like I really have never beenan explorer, but I found myself
okay.
If I have to go straight, I'mgoing to go as far left as I can
, then up and then cut back downand see what I can find.
(19:37):
There's nothing like findingthat piece of purple light
sticking out of the ground andit's something you're never
going to use, but I found ityeah purple light sticking out
of the ground and it's somethingyou're never going to use, but
I found it.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
yeah, actually, the world of elden ring is so well
developed.
They do a really good job oftelling the story using the map
and the buildings and things,and there is probably not a
single thing in that game thatis just randomly dropped there
Right that, if you look at howthat world is built, I fully
(20:11):
believe everything is deliberate.
Yeah, but there.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Okay, yeah.
So the game is set in somethingcalled the lands between, and
if you read the uh psychology ofElden Ring, You'll hear that in
almost every chapter that theytalk about the lands between.
What is the lands between?
Speaker 1 (20:39):
What is it between?
Or is it just a clever way tosay middle earth without saying
middle earth?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
I'm asking you that.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Really do think that this game was built around some
very powerful ideas that relatedirectly to the kinds of stories
that resonate with us on aspiritual level I don't mean
religions as spiritual levellike there's something innate
(21:08):
inside all of us that react tocertain themes, certain keywords
and phrases, and this is whythe hero's journey exists.
Is because you get a orphanliving on a desert planet or a
cupboard under the stairs with atragic past that they know very
(21:30):
little about and you say sayyou're special, and then years
later, the fate of existencerests on what they do with, how
special their gifts are, and notjust the lands between.
That's the world we're in, thelands between and that cave of.
(21:51):
Oh, what's the first cavecalled?
Speaker 2 (21:55):
it's got a really cool with that, but with, but
with the boss that has the giantnose uh-huh, it's where you
wake up, it's where the oh, caveof oh anticipation
Speaker 1 (22:11):
anticipation, right, okay, so, yeah.
So the anticipation, that'svery meta because it's about us
anticipating playing the game.
Yes, and we create the tarnish.
The tarnish gets the finalshard of the elden ring in the
top of their hand, wakes them up, and now they're bound in their
(22:36):
destiny to these big timeplayers that all have names and
backstories.
And then there's you, theTarnished.
You're just lucky to be here,right, and that kind of
storytelling with the right kindof world, with the right kind
of power that governs existence.
(22:57):
That's what mythology is,marcus, and that's why Elden
ring hits the way it does.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I got Elden ring hits the way it does, because you
can play that game in manydifferent ways, but one thing
connects everybody you still gotto beat the boss.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yeah, yeah, it's such a cool game to analyze how
people play.
There's so many builds thatthere really is the potential to
do psychological analysis witha person.
Look at how they build theircharacter.
(23:40):
Look at how they walk or travelthe wilderness.
Look at how they start bossfights.
Look at how they carrythemselves through boss fights.
Look at what their tendenciesare to survive different things.
Yep, how much do they useshields?
How much do they use quickreaction with dodges?
How much do they jump withtheir swings and use a vertical
(24:04):
attack approach?
How much do they stay on theground and use a a ground attack
their heels and ankles kind ofapproach?
And all of those things canlead to victory if you're good
enough.
So it's really a personalitytest in a way.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
What character did you pick for your first
playthrough?
Speaker 1 (24:31):
The one that is prone to magic.
I believe it's noble.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
I don't know, I'm gonna google, I'm gonna look it
up.
Uh, because now I want to knowstarting classes classes,
classes yep, so you have hero,bandit, astrologer, warrior,
(24:57):
vagabond, wretch, confessor,prisoner, samurai, prophet.
So you were probably theastrologer okay, that sounds
right yeah, because you startwith you, start with 16
intelligence and 15 mind yeah,my first character that I
created was definitely anastrologer.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Then, yeah, that was my outfit for sure, all right.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
What was yours, samurai?
I'm not gonna go to the storeand buy a katana, but I always
was interested in like samuraisand ninjas and stuff like that
as a kid and and I always referto myself as the beverly hills
ninja- you did last episode tooyeah, so it just fit for me to
do it and, like my character, Ipicked the biggest guy I could.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
I played as a pink haired girl.
Yeah, that's like my thing nowit is your thing I also have the
sword from kill bill.
As far as the whole not goingand getting yourself a samurai
sword yeah yeah, yeah either way, I love those movies have you
seen those movies, marcus?
Speaker 2 (26:04):
yeah, of course.
Yeah, so good.
I remember when the number twocame out, the final like that
big fight scene, they had tomake it go black and white
because there was so much blood.
They could not do it on a moviewithout rating it something
higher than r yeah, ah, so goodbut anyway.
(26:25):
So back to elden ring.
What I was saying is I feellike the opening classes say a
lot about yourself withoutsaying it, like the first
playthrough, the first, becausepeople then go back and take
somebody and they stay level one, except they level their weapon
through the whole game and theydon't get hit by anything,
which is just mind-boggling tome it really is mind-boggling
(26:48):
but my point is your openingclass is just a start.
So I was like I literally sat atthat screen for 20 minutes
trying to figure it out andpeople would tell me look, it's
just your starting class.
Where you start is not whereyou finish, and I was like
really, they're like no, you canbe anything you want as the
(27:12):
game goes on.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Like they tell us in elementary school before they
let adulthood crush us into noself-esteem or hope for the
future Like Elden Ring.
Oh my gosh.
Elden Ring is just our societyso it's for me now I looked at
(27:44):
it as okay, what am I?
Speaker 2 (27:46):
what is going to give me the best shot to win?
So I picked the samurai becauseit came with an uji katana,
which is a great sword to startwith.
You got a bow and arrow, whichis good to maybe catch the
attention of one of the soldiers, and you want to pull them
towards you without pulling thewhole mob.
That actually worked out reallywell for me in the beginning,
(28:06):
and the uji and your dexteritywas pretty high to start.
So all around it was a greatclass for me to start with, but
I ended up staying or I stillhave a katana which I use the
Moonveil katana, but that is amagic katana, so I put more into
(28:27):
intelligence than I havedexterity.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
My main setup is double moon veil.
Katana, wait, how do you gettwo?
You gotta do a secondplaythrough and l1 instead of r1
.
You have a different combo,when your two weapons match,
(29:02):
right yeah you do the yeah, it'sa it's many more hits in the
general combo.
So the reason I do that isbecause my magic is maxed.
So those two swords, if I'm ina melee situation, give me a lot
(29:23):
of opportunity to kill thingsquickly.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Yeah, I, when you said that it I don't know why it
made me think of bringing themilkshake to the yard, but I
don't know, my moon veil, bringall the boys to the yard.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah, I don't even know, marcus hey, that's okay.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
can you tell me how you felt when you left the cave
of anticipation and you openedup those two doors to this
bright yellow?
I'm closing my eyes, thinkingabout the sun coming out and it
says Limgrave, and you'relooking out at the distance like
how far am I going to get to go?
Speaker 1 (30:07):
here.
You see the Erd tree too, right, it's a really big moment.
It actually reminds me ofJourney, right?
You see the goal from the verybeginning of the game and you
just know it's going to take alot to get there, creating a
(30:35):
promise with you that if youdon't give up, this is where
you're going to make it, andthose are really powerful
moments.
And actually my chapter inPsychology of Elden Ring is my
answer to that question.
What I just said in words,verbally, is my chapter that I
instantly felt the journey inElden Ring.
Even though there's not long cutscenes in the story, you have
(30:58):
to pursue it yourself in orderto understand it.
The story is not actually inthe game, so to speak.
The story is about the game,and a lot of game players have
created YouTube videos that arereally awesome to explain the
lore and dissect everything, andthat's how you really come to
(31:20):
understand where you're going onthe map and why you're going
there, and when you understandthat this game is so much bigger
than just a super hard videogame.
So the Erdtree is a promise ofhow special the game is going to
(31:40):
be if you stick with it.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
The game is amazing.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
It's hard, though you have to attack this game in a
very different way than othergames, but if you let yourself
go there mentally, it canactually help you play other
games too, because you have tolet that part of you where
(32:09):
success decides how good you arepart of you where success
decides how good you are youhave to let it fall asleep or
die.
You know that losing is part ofthe game.
Now, falling short and havingto do a section again, it's part
of the experience, and you haveto take that positive from just
(32:32):
getting a little closer yeah,but again, how did you feel when
you walked through those twodoors?
Speaker 2 (32:44):
give me like, close your eyes and like think about
that moment just for a second.
Take your time and actuallythink about the moment you
walked out of there.
What was the first thing thatlike popped into your head?
I think?
Speaker 1 (32:58):
I would say it's amazement that I couldn't fully
appreciate what this video gamewas trying to give me.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
I just knew it was amazing and you just want to
play more.
Then you go down the hill andthe gold guy on the horse is
right there and then the feelingchanges a little bit.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
I was trolled by my chat when I first did it.
They're like, hey, you have togo fight this boss.
And I was like all right, so Iwent.
I must have died 15 times and Ifinally was like I can't like
this guy is one-shotting me andokay, hit Marcus.
(33:43):
Yeah, that's the key, that thatwas the ultimate troll, marcus,
have you tried rolling yet?
That was the big comment allthe time.
Marcus, you should try rolling,I am rolling.
It didn't look like you rolled,it looked like you took a hit.
You know they trolled me sohard.
This was probably one of the.
This was probably the firstgame I rage quit in 10 years.
(34:08):
Yeah, but I'm going to say whenI first started playing this
and now I did not play this onlaunch, I played it a year later
or more, I'm just so.
I remember going through thecave and my eyes are closed
because I'm remembering this andI was coming through and there
(34:30):
was this like smoke wall on myright-hand side before I walked
outside and it said you need asword stone key to enter.
And I'm like what is a swordstone key?
I have no idea what that is.
And I was like all right,whatever.
And I was like all right,whatever.
(34:50):
So I walked to the door and itopened and I can remember
watching the bushes blow aroundand I could almost feel like I
could smell the fresh air afterbeing in the cage, the cave.
But the one thing that was mostdistinct to me was how far you
(35:12):
could see in the distance.
I stood there and my eyes areclosed because I can remember it
like it was yesterday and youremember like you're looking as
far as you can see in the gameand you're like I have to
explore all of this, wow.
And then you take your firstthree steps or five steps and
(35:36):
there's this thing on the groundand you click it and it's a
grace and it that is oh, my eyesare open now, and that starts
your journey into the game and Iliterally oh, oh, I have
goosebumps right now Justthinking about it.
Yeah, cause that moment isthere's.
(35:57):
There's many moments in gamesthat give have given me
goosebumps, but that is one thatI will never forget.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
The difference in our answers.
There is such an interestingcomparison of our personality
types.
So everyone that knows mealready if you're not familiar
with me, I'm going to introduceyou to the beginning of my
gaming research, which usedpersonality testing to break
down how people play andexperience video games
(36:27):
differently.
And the first study I ever diduse the Myers-Briggs type
indicator, which gives us allfour letters and that's our
personality type the majority ofthe time.
But we fluctuate, right, and wegrow and we change over the
years.
But my four letters are prettymuch locked in, marcus, yours
are probably pretty much lockedin.
My description of what it waslike to walk through those doors
(36:52):
was more intuitive.
It was more of a like.
Here's what logic allows me toremember.
Yours was much more based inyour senses and your
appreciation of what it was likein a tactile way, like the
bushes and the wind and thedistance and the visuals.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
Those are all senses.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Yeah, absolutely.
So what I broke down there isthe daunting understanding of
what challenge is in front of meand yours is.
I have five senses and I canactually taste this video game,
which to me is bonkers.
(37:38):
But that's why I lovepsychology and personality
testing and that's why, nomatter how many times people try
to troll and critique me onlineand talk about why they don't
like the myers-briggs, becausetheir letters are always wrong
and whatever.
Listen, your letters changebased on what you want to answer
for those questions.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
You broke down really well, regardless of if you have
an S for that second letter oran N, like me.
Your answer was the S answerand mine was the N answer.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
And I think the only time you truly get an accurate
characterization of yourself isthe first time you do it,
because the first time you do it, I feel feel like you answer it
honestly, and the second timeyou overthink it I'm gonna go
(38:38):
doc mode on you, marcus.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
I'm gonna explain why you're not wrong, but I want to
explain what actually happensin those tests.
That makes a lot of people'sassumptions wrong, okay.
So if I ask you, how much doyou enjoy Elden Ring on a scale
of one to 10?
All right, give me a number,okay.
(39:01):
Then I ask you 12 otherquestions that are all random
and about not that.
Then I ask you how much do youdread playing Elden Ring One to
10.
Okay.
And then I ask you again,marcus, how much do you enjoy
the time that you get where youpotentially could choose to play
Elden Ring 10.
(39:22):
Okay.
And then I ask you how awareare you that playing Elden Ring
could make your day feel moredifficult?
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Repeat the question.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
It doesn't matter, just give me a number.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
A nine.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Okay, so I asked you four questions right there.
They were all the same question.
Okay, they were just aimed indifferent directions.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
I actually yeah, but you asked how much does it
frustrate me?
Essentially, it frustrates meat a 10.
But how much do I love it?
It also means a 10.
But those are two differentquestions.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Only to you, because you don't study psych tests
right.
So here's the thing, Marcus.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
I just got shunned.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
How much do you enjoy playing video games?
Speaker 3 (40:13):
out of 10.
8 out of 10.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
How much does a day feel more stressful when you
know there is no chance to playa video game?
And then you answer that couldbe a 2, could be a 7 I don't
care.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Okay, right, I'm starting to see.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
So if you're thirsty, how nice would it be to have a
coke, right?
If you're not thirsty, how muchdoes it bother you to not have
a Coke?
Those are measuring the samething.
And then people complain to meyou ask the same question so
many times.
Then it's your job to answerthe same thing every time,
because what I'm checking is notwhat your answer is.
I'm checking how consistent yourthought process is and just by
(40:49):
me changing the phrasing of theword, I'm figuring the phrasing
of the question.
Let me say that again, just byme asking the question with
different phrasing, I'm notmeasuring your answer.
I'm measuring your answercompared to the way you've
answered that question exactlythe same way five minutes ago.
And if you change, that makesyou closer to neutral.
(41:11):
But if you stay extreme yes,having a coke helps me with
thirst.
No, not having a coke would bevery difficult when I'm thirsty,
right.
If you answer the oppositeextreme and you're basically
giving the same answer and nowyou're very highly in the I
prefer to drink Coca-Cola, groupRight.
(41:33):
And people get angry and saythese tests are bogus online all
the time.
And I'm just laughing.
You don't even understand whatwe're doing to you.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
I don't, I just got.
I absolutely don't like.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
I need Elden Ring for my day to feel complete playing
elden ring makes my day feelincomplete, right, those?
Speaker 2 (41:57):
that's what I'm saying yeah, I, I don't disagree
, but after talking about this,it is true and you actually blew
my mind.
You've only done it a few times, but that was just like wow.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yeah, so Moonveil Katana makes the game better.
Not having the Moonveil Katanamakes the game worse.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
So we can be honest.
I just purchased Elden Ring forthe PS5.
Oh, wow, it's going to be at myhouse tomorrow, so I'm torn
Start over no, there's somethingto be at my house tomorrow, so
I'm torn Start over no, there'ssomething I can do somehow Watch
the YouTube video I got to doit when I can get my save data
from my PC and link it to thePS5.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
There's a way to transfer your data.
I would love to play Elden Ringwith my PC character and take
my 99 magic onto the PS5.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
So there's that and part of me says, maybe I try a
different character, but I feellike I have to beat the game
before I make another character.
There's no reason to makeanother character, marcus,
because you can go into theacademia castle oh yeah, I can
(43:17):
go see rinaldi, sure, but no, Iguess what I'm saying is this if
I can't figure out how totransfer the data, yeah that's
what I have to figure out.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
That's number one priority does it invalidate your
ability to earn trophies?
I don't care about that, oh Ido, like what's the difference?
Speaker 2 (43:37):
I'm not changing the game, you know what I mean.
I'm just transferring my savedata.
You know, like I don't care ifI get the trophy on steam or the
achievement on steam or thetrophy on the playstation, I
don't.
I don't play games for trophies, I play games because I enjoy
them in general.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
That is true for me too, but when there's a game
that is now, I am caught.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
That is the biggest crock of shit.
Nobody listening to thispodcast believe what he's saying
.
He cares so much he cares somuch for a trophy, he will grind
for hours and hours to get that100.
Do not listen to what he'ssaying the game matters to me.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
What marcus just said is true.
That's where I was going is, ifthe game doesn't matter to me
in the grand scheme of my life,then I can play it on easy and
finish the story and be done,and that was very nice.
But elden ring has done a lotfor me in life.
Um, I've done panels about itat conventions, and not just the
(44:45):
ones in florida, I think.
Yeah, my first panel I ever didwas on soulsborne games, right
after Elden Ring came out, andthat was my introduction to the
Geek Therapeutics people.
They were asking me if I wasnervous, if I was going to be
okay, if I had an idea what Iwas going to say, and I didn't
(45:05):
understand that.
They were checking if I wasgoing to be able to do the panel
.
I think they have a lot ofpeople that are anxious if I was
going to be able to do thepanel.
I think they have a lot ofpeople that are anxious, and I
just love when people give me amicrophone, marcus, and a chance
to talk.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Really.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
I wouldn't know that.
Yeah, I even do it for fun inmy free time.
Oh shit, okay, this has to bethe best conversation we've ever
had anyway, moving on, let meask you a question.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Yeah, who in the game was your fate?
Is your favorite npc?
Speaker 1 (45:49):
ranny giant wizard hat.
She's my soulmate.
Yeah, I got it.
I gotta save the world for her.
I just I think that whole questline if you can complete the
game and fix the elden ring forher, that is my preferred ending
and the endings that we go forwere a big component of my
(46:13):
chapter and that's why I neededto go and finish the game five
times.
There's one ending that I'venever earned and it bothers me,
but I just don't know, becauseevery time you clear it, things
feel harder the next time and Idon't know what it is about the
(46:37):
attempt to finish it the sixthtime.
But I'm dying so easy and Ialmost think that starting a new
character would be the betterchoice if I want that sixth
ending to see it with my owneyes.
Choice if I want that sixthending to see it with my own
eyes.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
Yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
What NPCs did you resonate with the most so far?
Speaker 2 (47:02):
It's hard for me to say because, Believe it or not,
what is the woman who hugs you?
Speaker 1 (47:13):
Oh darn it.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
I don't remember her name.
Believe it or not, her.
That's such a good story too,like and in that it's going to
lead us into the next part ofthis conversation.
But when I came in and she'sjust wanted a hug and I'm like
(47:42):
subconsciously in the back of myhead, I'm like fuck, I want a
hug she's gonna give you debuffs, marcus, you got her, yeah, but
you don't know that, you don'tknow that on the front end.
And then all of a sudden you seethis weird like arrow pointing
up and you're like what is thatall about?
Speaker 1 (47:58):
If you got education from the same schools that I did
, you would be very suspiciousof what kind of communicable
debuffs she's about to give you.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
So the point is, I resonated with her a lot and um,
I love ranny like she's perfectwith all four of her arms yeah
and I don't know for me, not me,it's her face, she.
(48:30):
She looks so innocent.
But anyway, the way she spokeand she's like a hug and you're
just I could feel it in reallife and that resonated with me
a lot.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
Right.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
Why?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
It's such a brutal world that you're in.
Everything wants to kill you,and so for one person to just
make it all about that kind ofcloseness, the intimacy of being
alive and just connecting in anon-threatening way, I think
(49:08):
that's a really tender moment tohave in a game that's so much
about despair.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
Yeah, and that leads me into the game of their quests
.
So their quests are not normal.
And I say normal in the senseof you meet somebody.
If you're not listening to whatthey say, you will never hear
it again.
It's gone for good.
Speaker 3 (49:30):
Like there's.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
There's no quest log or journal.
It's hey, who's this guy?
And he starts rambling and mykid walks through the door and I
listen and I it's gone for good, like game over, don't know
what just happened.
And then you find them sevenhours later at the corner of a
building selling crack cocainebecause they, they, you didn't
(49:52):
do their quest and they'restarving and they got to make
some money.
You know what I mean yeah,there's.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
There's a brother quest where you meet somebody in
the in the hold whereeverything's peaceful and you
just buy stuff and, yeah, theround table hold.
I remember Wes asked me once ifI did the quest and found his
brother or something.
I had no idea what he wastalking about.
(50:18):
And then my next playthrough, Iheard the conversation again.
I was like, oh my gosh, thatguy is totally hinting for me to
help him and I still didn'tfollow the hint.
I didn't understand what he wassaying.
I could just tell the secondtime after that conversation
(50:40):
that's a quest that I'm supposedto do.
I still don't think I've donethat quest correctly.
There's always something whereI get lost and I can't figure it
out.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Yeah, I did one where I talked to this female and I
went and did a bunch of stuffand when I came back she was
slaughtered on the ground.
I felt terrible.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
That always happens.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
You can't save her.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
I feel so much better right now.
Speaker 3 (51:15):
You actually are just helping her to get a letter or
something to help you moveforward.
She's the sacrifice for yoursuccess.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
Wow, wow I thought I messed that up all this time.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
Yeah yeah, and then there's the girl that needs you
to get the needle so that youcan carve the rod off of her,
and then eventually, shebasically becomes millennia.
I don't know, I don't know ifI'm interpreting that correctly,
but it just seems like you doan exorbitant amount of work to
save this girl and it just leadsto you finding the door to
(51:50):
fight Millenia.
I don't know what you'retalking about.
Oh, she's like the best boss inthe whole game.
People say she's the hardest.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
No, I'm saying the girl that you're like helping.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Oh, there's a church over in Caelid and she's dying
from the rot and she asks you togo find a gold needle.
So then you go into the swampand win a boss fight and get the
gold needle and then you showit to the guy who's in the
rocking chair in the little hutnext to the city that's down the
street from the church and youjust go back and forth passing
(52:23):
the needle around all thesepeople until you eventually
carve the rot off of her skinand then you have to go find her
a prosthetic arm.
And then you get her aprosthetic arm and then she
feels like she's ambulatory nowso she can start walking around.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
You start meeting her different is that michael's arm
in that the shaded castle?
I think so I have that, but Idon't think I've ever done that
quest.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
I don't even know you didn't give it to the girl
that's missing an arm.
I don't even know if I knowMonster.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
I don't even know where the girl is.
I'm going to look this upbecause, see, this is why this
game is so good.
Speaker 3 (53:00):
Right, there's no markers above people's heads
with exclamation points thatsays, hey, pay attention to me
and figure this out.
So just for you.
You walk through a church, sawa girl dying from rot, missing
an arm, and you have aprosthetic arm and you're just
like whatever, I gotta get tothe retreat.
(53:22):
You have her arm in yourinventory, marcus.
Oh my god, I've never fallenapart like this on the podcast
(53:42):
this is the best podcast ever.
Speaker 2 (53:45):
I have no idea like, but so you're helping my point
right.
You're helping my point right.
You're helping me say that,like, the quest lines are so
incredible, but I don't evenknow what the hell I'm doing.
Speaker 3 (53:57):
Right.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
I met some idiot in a tower and he was rude to me and
I just wanted to kill him andhe was like go get me some
scrolls.
And then I go find some scrollsand he has a bunch of people
tied up to walls and there'ssome sorcerer that's like in a
jail, and I'm like what the hellis going on here?
Did I just find like a fuckingkidnapping ring?
What the fuck is going on rightnow?
(54:20):
Celibus, sleuth, celibus, oh mygosh, he's the worst.
Yeah, he's the worst.
But I just stumbled upon him.
It was during Ronnie or Ranny'squest, and I'm like, okay, I'm
going to go over to this towerand then this guy's just an Uber
jerk face to me and I'm likewhat is happening?
These quests are so incredible,but if you don't pay attention,
(54:42):
it's you're gone.
It's gone, gone for good.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
Unless you start over and get one more chance to
listen better.
Speaker 2 (54:51):
No, I think you don't have to.
I think you can.
I think at this point it's okayto do the Google.
Speaker 3 (54:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (54:58):
But my favorite part of the game believe well, not
really the favorite One of thefavorite parts of the game are
these white spots on the groundwhere you can click on them and
they have messages from peopleand they're just so dumb, dumb,
sometimes, like this is a walltry finger but hole yes exactly
(55:25):
yeah and oh.
but sometimes they'll give you,with a good thing, ambush on
right and left and you're like,oh shit, I'm about to die.
Because let me tell you thosebone guys in the catacombs that,
like you don't realize, you gotto hit them once they're dead,
because they're going to comeback to life.
I didn't realize that I keptrunning through the joint and
(55:47):
then all of a sudden I had nineof them on me and I got the you
died screen.
Speaker 1 (55:52):
Yeah, absolutely so.
The reason that I think fromsoftware games are so compelling
and this goes back to when Iwas playing Demon's Souls this
was one of the earliestrealizations that made me think
this game is something that I'mreally going to enjoy In all the
games I've ever played up tothat point.
(56:14):
So we're talking Devil May Cry,resident Evil, we're talking
Final Fantasy, we're talkingMario, we're talking all of it.
You get hit by something.
You have your little hearts oryour health bar.
You lose one of them, no matterwhat, the thing is right.
Link gets hit by a fireball.
He has 18 heart containers andhe loses one heart from that
(56:38):
fireball, maybe three In EldenRing and in Demon's Souls and
Dark Souls.
My mentality of how I understanddamage is it's going to hurt
your health bar the same amountthat it would hurt you if it
happened to you.
So, like an arrow to your knee,I now have 10% health.
(57:02):
It did 90% health.
I'm going to die now because Icannot take an arrow to the knee
, marcus, and still be anadventurer, all right, it's just
not in me.
You know, a rolling rockcrushes you.
You're dead, right, 100% dead.
I'm not surviving that.
(57:23):
There's no secret path to rollin like Indiana Jones You're
just dead.
Speaker 2 (57:28):
But then there's the giant arrows that those monsters
shoot when you're on top of themountain and they stick in you
and they stay there and you justlike 4% health and you're like
I can't do anything.
Speaker 1 (57:42):
Yeah yeah, you're still dying, right?
I just like the idea that thephysicality of your character is
connected to your health bar,that you are as dead on your
health bar as you would be ifthis happened to your actual
body.
Speaker 2 (58:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (58:02):
So if you don't want to take a fireball to the face
in real life, don't take thatfireball to the face in Elden
Ring.
It's not going to go well foryou.
Speaker 2 (58:14):
Yeah, oh and oh.
There was another part in thegame where I was running up a
hill and I had to get somewhereand all of a sudden I got like
this thing called madness, andit was the first time ever and
it killed me and I had no ideahow to beat it and it ended up
being the Eye of Sauron that youhad to hide from.
Speaker 1 (58:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
And I was like, did they just put Lord of the Rings
in this game Lands?
Speaker 1 (58:40):
Between is a synonym for Middle Earth.
Elden Ring, the One Ring.
It's all over the place.
It's like George RR Martin'sFantasy that he could write His
own version of Lord of the Rings.
Speaker 2 (58:58):
Who's Samwise Gamgee you.
Who's Frodo Me?
I don't know.
Did you really just do that?
Speaker 3 (59:18):
I've told you that before I know you walked right
into that.
Speaker 1 (59:23):
That's been a every time I need a pep talk because
I'm doubting my content creatorjourney and I talked to marcus.
He's earned over the years forme that he's my sam.
Speaker 2 (59:35):
That's just what it is oh shit, all right, I think.
I think this discussion is notover, because there's a lot more
of Elden Ring we should talkabout between Elden Ring, the
DLC and Night Rain, but I thinkwe save it for another podcast.
Speaker 1 (59:57):
Yeah, just so everyone who's listening knows,
the reason we didn't really talkabout Shadow of the Erdtree is
because I never really investedmyself in Shadow of the Erdtree.
It's something I think aboutall the time.
I beat a couple bosses, I founda couple of the things to level
up and then I just stoppedplaying because reasons I just
(01:00:20):
got busy.
I started traveling for workstuff in the summer and never
went back to it.
So someday we're gonna have totalk about shadow the earth tree
.
We're gonna have to talk aboutwhen you become elden lord and
we're gonna have to talk aboutShadow the Erdtree we're going
to have to talk about when youbecome Elden Lord and we're
going to have to talk aboutNight Rain.
Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
So let's you know what.
Let's continue thisconversation next week.
Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Also, I have a bucket list goal that we got to figure
out that seamless co-op mod,because I think that would be so
fun.
Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
I agree that could be in episode two.
Mods are not really officialcontent, but the way this game
works, it really feels like that.
One has elevated the profile ofthe game to where people are
that interested about that modin particular.
It allows two or more people toactually connect and not in the
(01:01:19):
I don't remember what they callit.
There is a way to connect justfor boss fights, but this mod
allows you to connect for thetraveling part too, and I really
would love to do that.
It just seems like that wouldmake the game so much more of a
fun experience instead of adaunting, frustrating,
demoralizing experience.
It's, it would be fun.
(01:01:42):
Yeah, so we're gonna talk moreElden Ring next week.
Yeah, everyone, before you go,I just need you to remember one
thing, because you listened tothis very long, very
entertaining episode.
You are all made in Liss.
Continue the journey, thank you.
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