April 10, 2025 • 56 mins
We dive into the pricing controversy of the Nintendo Switch 2 and debate whether $80 games are excessive or simply keeping up with inflation. Marcus shares his exciting progress in Elden Ring, reaching Crumbling Farum Azula after defeating the Fire Giant.
• Nintendo Switch 2 announced at $450 standalone or $499 with Mario Kart World
• Game prices rising to $80 for Switch 2 titles
• Marcus reaches endgame content in Elden Ring after defeating the Fire Giant
• FromSoftware's new game Duskbloods looks like a spiritual successor to Bloodborne
• Dr. Gamology explains how sports betting has ruined his enjoyment of sporting events
• Both hosts share their personal application of "Mamba Mentality" to gaming and professional lives
• Morning productivity versus late-night gaming sessions as personal optimization strategies
• Discussion of gaming addiction versus intentional gaming time
• The value of video games as spaces for heroism and meaningful challenge
Join us next week as we continue exploring the intersection of gaming and personal growth!
If you would like to support the show and help us unlock additional possibilities for future episodes and projects, this can now be done through Patreon!
You can watch us play games LIVE and join our communities to get more connection from every episode:
- DrGameology on Twitch - Continue the Journey LIVE in 2025!!
- MarcusB814 on YouTube - BOOMBA
Subscribe on YouTube for more content on the Psychology of Gaming or Follow on Twitch to catch the Live Streams!
For more info, check out DrGameology.com!
More Links Here!
Thanks for Listening, and Continue The Journey!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Gaming Persona podcast.
This is the show that exploreswho we become when we play games
, whether you're saving kingdoms, leading epic raids or just
vibing in cozy indie worlds.
Join me, dr Gamology and mygood friend Marcus as we search
for all the ways gaming andpersonal growth collide.
Grab your controllers and let'scontinue the journey Now.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Dude I'm.
So I know you asked me a reallygood question today and it
really got me using my brain andlike thinking about things, but
I'm actually a little likeHeated not heated, heated is the
wrong word like almost like whodo they think they are kind of
(00:48):
a situation right now withnintendo?
Me and nintendo are not in likethe greatest relationship right
now oh, you're sleeping on thecouch, marcus with nintendo.
Yeah, I'm a little, I'm alittle heated all right.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Well, let's do it.
What's okay?
What's wrong with you?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
So did you watch the Nintendo Direct?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
No, because I was not at home yesterday.
I actually it's kind of muddy.
I don't think I'm allowed totalk on air about where I was
yesterday.
So let's just NDA that I wasnot able to watch this.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
But did you rewatch it?
Speaker 1 (01:26):
No, I'm not.
I don't care Like they hijackedmy birthday.
That's all I know.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yesterday was your birthday.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
No, June 5th is those jerks.
Everyone in the world is goingto be killing each other over
the five switch twos that theyhave on the shelves.
Bro, I got in acknowledging meand my greatness on the island
of relevancy well, the island inwwe 2k25 is actually really fun
anyway.
(01:54):
The island of microtransactions that's a different
thing altogether.
Yes, did you buy 18 crocs inthe island mode, marcus?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
you don't want your no, oh, alright, so uh gaming.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
We're throwing too many topics at our audience
right now we gotta settle down.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Are you drinking a Red Bull?
No, I'm drinking a lemonade ohokay, I was gonna say you're
fucking hardcore if you'redrinking a Red Bull at 9 o'clock
at night no, I'm drinking aMike's Hard nine o'clock at
night.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
No, I'm drinking a mike's hard lemonade.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
It's strawberry flavored I am so proud.
I was actually gonna bring itup to everybody in the gaming
persona community to call outdoc and tell him he has to have
a drink with the next podcast,but he is.
I'm having a beer.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Actually, I have three here I had nine webcam
related things yesterday andthat's with me missing my Twitch
stream because I was overbookedthis morning.
That happens.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
You're a busy guy.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
I am, I look jacked in this shirt.
Yeah, you look great.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I look jacked, anyway , with a big belly, but anyway,
moving on, okay, so here's thepremise.
I'm going to give the uberpositive thing and I'm going to
make a claim I have to be EldenRing by 2026 because Duskbloods
looks sick.
Okay, have you seen the trailer?
Nope?
(03:22):
Okay, you need to go watch that.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Right now it's basically Bloodborne 2, but they
can't use the name bloodbornebecause of international
copyright oh yeah, I did see allthe memes about that, with
people overreacting and beinglike finally bloodborne 2, and
then the name changes it's likestill bloodborne 2 yeah, but
like you need to watch thattrailer.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
It's sick because I'm gonna dive into it.
Because like this is this iswhere my relationship with
nintendo right now is struggling.
I'm on the nintendo strugglebus that um.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Carving on his hand looks painful, I would not be
down for.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
But he's becoming Blade Blade.
Yeah, he's going to be avampire.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I don't actually know that, but it sounds really good
From software.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Oh, it's got like a train and stuff, so that right
there is already different thandemon souls and elden ring and
dark souls.
I never played bloodborne,though, so this feels very
castlevania-esque to me well,yeah, I never played bloodborne
either.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
I have it, it's right here, never been opened oh wow,
you should open it.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
You should know it not, is?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
um?
They say that this is the Peggy, this is the Euro version.
Um, I might never open it, man.
Do you know how much this willbe worth someday if I don't open
it, because I can just get itdigitally?
Do you have PlayStation Plus?
Yeah, is that the onlinePlayStation?
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, that's how I got my Bloodborne on my
PlayStation account.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
I don't know if it's always available that way or if
it was a monthly thing.
I don't know.
I don't know either.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Oh, he just threw shadows on the ground and it
became another person yeah, dude, well no, so it's a co-op
multiplayer pvp e v e game.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
So it's from day one, me and you can co-op the game
that's the way I see it will thedamage and health of the enemy
scale for two people, so thatit's the same amount of
difficulty I would imagine it'sfrom soft yeah, they're not
gonna.
They're not gonna let twopeople go in there and the
enemies have the same amount ofhealth, right, because then
(05:53):
people just win the game thatway I want to win your game that
way you're not carrying me,marcus, I'm your.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
I'm sam, wise in this , I can't carry it for you, but
I can carry you so what I liketo say, it like showed, like,
like it seems like there'syou're gonna be able to ride a
train into like a like acastlevania-esque, like a final
(06:22):
City, you know what I mean.
And some of the moves and itshows, believe it or not, the
dancer, for me, looks reallycool.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yeah, did you finish it.
Yeah, it looked cool.
Yeah, I did so exclusive forthe Nintendo.
Switch.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yep Switch 2.
So Switch 2 is $499.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
And if that's with Mario Kart, Right, If you get
the standalone, it's $450.
To me now, like I'm being real,that is, I expect that if
they're going to be giving usup-to-date graphics where you
don't care about that.
But I do like, when thisoriginal Switch came out, it was
(07:12):
still like it was usingtechnology from 10 years ago.
They're saying that we haven'tgotten the specs.
They're saying that the specsin this are current gen.
So if that's the case, I canunderstand the price stack With
me.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Okay, here's where I'm not down with the sickness.
They're saying the games aregoing to be 80 bucks.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yeah, you have a problem with that.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
I kind of do.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Why I have a problem that games are 70 bucks you have
a problem with that yeah I havea really hard time buying a 70
game really, yeah, you know thisis.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
This is potentially a very dangerous conversation for
us to have.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Well, no, if you know it shouldn't be.
What I'm saying is is okay, soI'm going to.
I'm going to play both sides ofthe coin.
I understand studios have topay their employees more, so in
turn they need to charge morefor the game.
Right, Right.
But for years now you have hadbase game, let's say, $60,
(08:33):
digital deluxe, or like themiddle of the road, is either 90
or $100.
And then you have the ultimateedition, which is $120, right,
$120.
Right.
So if you really, really reallycare about the game and you
want the Collectors or you wantthe Roman Reigns cover or you
want Unlocked all the seasonsahead of time, you buy the $120
(08:56):
one because you're going to buyit anyways.
Got it, Got it.
But something in the back of myhead says $80 for a base game.
It seems out of control.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
I think what Nintendo is saying here is any game on
the switch to is automaticallynot a base game.
They're saying the switch iswhere, automatically not a base
game.
They're saying the Switch iswhere you play the base games
and these are where you play thebig boy games.
We'll see.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
And you might be right.
You might be right, but I willsay that the size comparison of
the Switch 2 versus the Switch 1is fucking awesome.
A couple things that I.
The thing about nintendo is theswitch isn't gonna suck when it
(09:54):
ships right.
You're not gonna worry aboutred ring of death.
You're not gonna worry aboutthe fans blowing up the
playstation.
You know what I mean.
Like in the early iterations ofthe playstation 4 there were
fan issues, blah, blah, blah.
The switch is.
I look at the switch is comingout like nintendo's products
usually come out bulletproofyeah, their.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Their quality assurance is the best in gaming,
quite possibly I don't evenknow if I need to qualify it
with.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Quite possibly their, their stuff works yeah, it's
like the old apple products, itjust works, but anyway.
So for me, like the systembeing fought, 450 bucks.
I'm just talking about the basesystem.
I'm fine with that.
Everything costs money, right,like my a graphics card.
(10:44):
If I buy the new graphics cardI want it's two thousand dollars
, right, just for the graphicscard.
So so for me, I understand whatthey're doing and you get a
playstation 5 for 500 bucks,right, yeah or no?
400.
Digital no 400.
Digital Edition is 400.
Disc version is 500.
(11:04):
Pro is 700.
Got it.
Xbox Series X is 500.
So, like they're keeping upwith the times, because I
guarantee the next Xbox or thenext PlayStation are going to be
$700.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Right, but it brings me back to the game price $80.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
It's just Okay.
So I know I have time to cooktonight, marcus, because
meetings and supervision andteaching class and all the
things Dr Gamology does to keepthe lights on and the bills paid
Right.
So, and teaching class and allthe things Dr Gamology does to
keep the lights on and the billspaid right.
So during a very quick break Ijust threw out there to my wife.
(11:52):
We didn't grocery shop forThursday night, so sorry, order
whatever you're craving and justI trust you.
You know what my diet and whatI need to eat, so just pick me
something, it'll be fine.
I can eat 630 to seven.
She's like I got you.
And I bet you, if I went intomy banking app right now and I
(12:17):
looked at the last door dash forthree people from our favorite
Chinese place down the streetWith delivery, with the $2.99
for them to drive it straight tome, with the three entrees and
the crab rangoon and some eggrolls, I bet you we pay DoorDash
(12:40):
$78.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
I'm going to go closer to $100.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Okay, yeah, I'm going to just for the sake of science
.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Okay, are we?
Speaker 1 (12:54):
going to do prices right rules.
Yeah, knock yourself out,Marcus.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
All right, I don't want to knock myself out, then
you won't have a co-host.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Well temporarily.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
You'll eventually wake up.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
It's not like a Gunther headlock.
Oh, we just threw back to lastweek.
We're pros.
Okay, it was $58,.
Marcus, okay, you know I'm afamily of three, though If we
were the traditional like, leaveit to beaver.
Family of four kind of yeah,like you.
Yeah, I bet you you would havehit like 75 to $80 right there.
(13:29):
My point is is the switch to,in the grand scheme of things,
that you're going to enjoy formore than 14 hours while you
digest it and then it comes outlooking like everything else
does Right?
Did you just go there?
Yeah, your switch to is goingto stay with you a long time,
nourishing your entertainmentneeds and making your cerebral
(13:50):
cortex light up in dopaminefirework displays that cannot
even be fathomed right now byour switch one minds.
I think people get so upsetover money leaving their life.
But money comes into your lifeso it can leave you and you die
(14:14):
and you don't take any of itwith you.
So, like you should not changethe way you see the world
because of the price of eggs orgas or switch to games, because
if you do, you're a jackass.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
I'm going to come back to this.
So for me it's more of likewhen, when it's a hard pill for
me to swallow.
That's what it pretty muchcomes down to, and it's a me
(14:52):
problem, right?
It's not an anybody elseproblem.
I feel like they could haveleft how much the games cost out
and they could have just beenlike hey, switch 2 is $450.
Wait a little while and thenstart talking about the pricing
of games, dropping it all atonce.
I understand your point, buthow about this?
(15:15):
I am less likely to buy twogames on launch than one.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Yeah, because you're looking at that like two games
is $160.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Plus tax yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Also, it is really dumb to buy the console only in
this situation.
Just get the $500 version thatgives you Mario Kart World.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
So, if you can get it right.
So I remember when the Xbox 360came out and there was a bundle
with maybe it was Halo I can'tremember what game was coming
Halo 3, maybe I forget what thegame was and you could either
get the console version or youcould get the bundle.
(16:01):
But the bundle, like we said,was like $80 more because it
came with an extra controllerand a game I forget what it was
on launch.
But anyway, all that was leftwas the bundle because people
didn't have the money to buy itall.
So for me I don't mind, but Ido have a friend who told me if
(16:30):
I want the pre-order list, he'llput me on it right away.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Oh, that's so nice, Marcus.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
See, the dilemma is, if I buy it, it's instantly
becoming my son's.
I'll be able to play it once ina while, but it ain't going to
be mine.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
You got to do like daily time checkout list and
yeah, I'll be winning.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yeah, when he goes to bed share.
But the only the real reason Ireally want this switch to is
because I really want visions ofmana to come out on the switch,
because I beat trials of manaon the switch, um, and I loved
it.
Visions of mana is the secondgame and it came out, but it's
not on the switch, it's on theplaystation and the xbox and
(17:15):
stuff and I don't won't play itbecause, like I loved playing a
level in my bedroom oh yeah youknow, they have solutions for
that.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
You could put a playstation 5 in your bedroom.
It's not the same.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
You get playstation portal no, I like sitting there
with my little nintendo switchand playing my game and then I
just get to a save point, fallasleep, shut it off and move on.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
But if you have playstation portal you could do
that.
But with game lag, how much?
Because your wi-fi won't beable to keep up with your your
streaming image on the portalyou know I tried to stream elden
ring this week.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
I was so excited and I was just getting crazy frame
rate drops.
I actually have to deletestream labs off my computer and
reinstall it because it won'tupdate I had to switch to obs
because of that.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
It got to the point where stream labs was taking so
many uh system resources awayfrom what needs to go out to the
public and all thetroubleshooting that I did.
The solution that wasrecommended.
The easiest solution was useOBS, not Streamlabs, but they
(18:36):
have created a plugin to workwell together where you have
Streamlabs in the menu of OBSnow.
So it's a good time to startdabbling in OBS.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
For the amount of streaming that I'm going to do.
I'm just going to deleteStreamlabs and reinstall it
Because that to me and if itdoesn't fix the problem, like I
had a problem where if I updatedmy graphics driver when I was
playing Destiny, it would lag,so I could never update my
driver in streamlapse.
(19:09):
It was weird yeah, but eitherway I rambled, but anyways, I
was so excited is a difficulthobby.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
It it's like a house of cards.
You just move one little thingand it all falls apart, and then
your whole, the way you sawyour morning or evening, is
ruined.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Um, yeah, well, I wanted to stream because I was
fighting the fire giant.
So I'm finally at a point inthis game where I'm like,
committed, I'm gonnaoped my assand I was like man, I don't know
(19:52):
did he step on you and crunchyou or roll on you I?
Don't know, he lit me on fire alot oh yeah, you should not be
on fire, marcus no anyway.
So I was excited, so I decidedto stream it and it failed.
But then I did it in Discordand my point is that I killed
(20:17):
the boss oh good, I killed thefire giant.
And then I got to a point inthe game where I got a real
cutscene Not like a boss cutscene and like, yeah, and like
it, this gate, like it's it.
This was the I call this thecut scene of saying hey, welcome
to the end game.
(20:38):
You know what I mean.
It's not the actual end endgame, but like it's not the
point of no return end game.
But this is like.
This is like hey, you've madeit this far, gotta go.
Good luck, see you on the otherside.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Are you a crumbling Faram Azula now?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Yeah, I was just going to say that, yep.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Cause we talked about that last week and you didn't
know.
And now you're there.
I'm so proud of you, Marcus.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
So I, um I'm in the crumbling pharma azula or
whatever it's called, and I justgot to a second or third sight
of grace.
Um, I'm just exploring thingsand like kind of like finding
things, I'm taking my time.
Um, is it weird that I don'tkill the dragons?
Like fighting the dragons?
I have no interest in killingthe dragons.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
You don't want to fight Plessudisax.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
No.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Oh my gosh, he's one of the best dragons, though,
cause you gotta you gotta sleepin your grave and wake up
thousands of years in the pastbefore he died, uh.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
I.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
I don't know if I so when you're when you're going,
you're going through, I believe,the capital, llandell capital,
or whatever.
I believe the bones that youclimb up to get into the castle
are that dragon's bones orsomething like that oh, that's
interesting you're travelinginto the past to fight that
(22:06):
dragon when it was alive, orsomething.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I didn't kill it Anyway, like I think, the only
dragon.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
I think I've killed in the whole game is Lim Graves.
Okay, Well, I like fighting thedragons, but then again I'm
ranged in magic and do not haveto spend as much time underneath
their feet as you do.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Right, I'm also so.
Anyway, I got lost.
I found my way back.
I was on like this balcony andI can see like the white fog.
Now I don't know who my boss is.
I usually will watch likevideos of people playing the
game after I've done it.
You know what I mean, but Iknow there's.
(22:53):
I know I'm coming up to a boss.
I hope it is not.
Oh, did I talk about whathappened to me last week with
you?
Speaker 1 (23:02):
I don't know, Marcus, but if you search your feelings
, you know who you're about tofight.
I think so, because you're myco-host on the gaming persona.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Well so I last week I got into a cave in I forget
where I was the mountaintops ofthe giants, and they have these
God skin mofos.
Yeah, more of those, yep, everyweek I was God skin mofos.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah, god skins More of those Yep Every week.
You and God skins.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Yep.
So this week I was there and Iwas with Doc and he was watching
and I didn't beat it becausethere was one of them.
Well, I woke up at like four inthe morning because I couldn't
sleep, because I just wanted tobeat him and I came in here,
turned on my computer and I beatthe first God skin noble,
mother trucker.
I beat the Godskin Noble.
(23:50):
In a second one, the fat oneappeared.
I was like mother fudger, I wasso mad.
I was like I feel deceived.
But here's the problem.
I know, because of Doc playingthis game, that there's a time
(24:11):
where I'm going to have to fighttwo of those at once and, if I
remember correctly, I don't knowwhen it comes, but I know it's
coming.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
but you have to kill each of them twice.
Yes, that's true.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
So you essentially have to fight them four, four of
them in one boss fight.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
How in the F am I going to handle that if I can't
handle two?
Speaker 1 (24:31):
You're going to hold up a bell right here and you're
going to go ding, ding, and thensolo Sako is going to come out
and spike them in the throat.
Oh God, bloodline rules, marcus.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Bloodline rules, anyway, moving on.
So I'm in crumbling farm Azula,but then I know there's a boss.
There's a boss.
I want to say it's mega death,not mega death.
Oh my god, malacath millenniaand the elden lord guy yeah.
(25:06):
Those are my bosses that areleft.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yep, you got Horalu.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Who's that?
Speaker 1 (25:13):
He's like Hulk Hogan with a lion.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
That's Malekith.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
No, Malekith is something else.
He's just got a big black sword.
Oh no, Horalu is at the base ofthe Erd tree after crumbling
Faramizula.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I don't even know what you're talking about, but
it sounds scary.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
It's fun.
You have some great momentsleft to experience.
I'm really excited that we'redoing this show when you decided
to do this instead of you justbeing the game years ago, when
you were doing Working ClassNerds, which would have been
great.
But I'm glad that I'm heretalking to you about it.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
I just feel really lucky Because I'm in a place
where it's actually like this iswhere this is the end game.
I'm fighting real, like it'sactually like this is where this
is the end game.
I'm fighting real, like there'sno more easy bosses that I'm
going to, there's no more easybosses that I'm going to just
(26:22):
walk all over.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
You might surprise yourself with some of them,
though, maybe not, maybe, not,maybe not.
It'll be easier to take downsome of these bosses than it
will be to spend $80 on a switchto game truth.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
So yeah, that's a that's.
I just rambled for like a halfan hour.
Doc, what is your next game?
You're really gonna play that'sa tough question.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
I did pick up dragon's dogma 2 over this past
week.
It was on the spring sale onthe playstation store and I've
wanted that game for about ayear and so I saw the price.
I was like that's perfect forme.
I'm gonna pick it up.
I don't know when I'm gonnaplay it, but it's in my
playstation account now.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Um how much was it?
Speaker 1 (27:21):
30, I think, or maybe maybe it was 20, it was either.
I I don't remember.
But when a full price game hitsthat I'm good.
That's a big discount.
When you're talking a $70 game.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Oh, yeah, for sure, if it's a game that you want to
play, but it's not the importantgame that you get on launch.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Right.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
You know what I mean?
Then, yes, that's when youscoop it up.
That's why I love the Steamsales and stuff.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Oh yeah, steam has thrown a lot of emails my way
and it's been tough to not reactto them, because every day you
just get four or five games onyour wishlist that are heavily
discounted.
So Steam is a great way to savemoney and still get to play a
ton of games.
So for me, I might look intostreaming.
(28:09):
Uh, I have options.
Right, I have monster hunterand and assassin's creed.
But here's the thing, marcus, Ihave my research partner, dr
stephanie diaz is is a lifelongfan, like her favorite game
franchise is Monster Hunter, andwe have talked about doing
(28:33):
writing projects together thatwould focus on Monster Hunter
either more research, like whatI've done with Sotor and Final
Fantasy and honestly, it lookslike the setup of the game is
perfect for that kind ofresearch.
You have character creation andyou have an end game, so for me
, there are some professionalincentives for me to figure out
(28:54):
how to love that franchise well,I guess I'm sorry I should have
.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Before I said meh, I should have said you should ask
dr diaz um which monster huntershe suggests you play first.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
That's a good thing to bring up too, cause my most
popular social posts of all timewas me shooting my mouth off
after five hours of monsterhunter and saying I don't think
this is the best one to playbecause I have no idea what the
heck is going on.
And I'm a new player and thenall the old school players that
(29:30):
know how to do everythingalready are like this is the
easiest one to play.
It's like you don't, like youthink that you have this right
in your head but you're actuallybackwards on this.
I'm the one who gets to commenton how easy the new one is to
pick up as their first game.
For sure who gets to comment onhow easy the new one is to pick
up as their first game?
(29:50):
For sure, because, becauseyou've played all 12 games in
this franchise since day one,you are perfect at this game.
You know what you're lookingfor.
You don't need the tutorialsand you instantly know how to
take down monsters just bylooking at them right right, so
that was fun for a week.
To get criticized on socialmedia as a noob um I still I.
(30:17):
I.
I feel like that conversationwas actually good for me,
because I learned a lot moreabout gaming communities.
I usually don't I'm not the onewho is open to get dunked on,
you know, so that was fun wait,wait, wait.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
You did savage and nightmare raiding in MMOs.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
You got dunked on every night yeah, that's true,
because that was before Ideveloped the self respect for
me to tell a game company youdon't get to decide how I enjoy
this game.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
I don't know if I've ever asked this what's your
favorite?
Who's your favorite basketballteam?
Speaker 1 (31:00):
You're going to hate me, marcus, if you say the
fucking Lakers.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
I'm hitting the.
Oh, I don't control the endbutton.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
You don't control the end button.
You don't control the endbutton and you already knew the
answer to that question before Ianswer.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Yeah, you're a Celtics fan.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
I am not a Celtics fan.
I find Kevin Garnett to be alittle bit hard to to deal with.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
He's not wait.
Kevin Garnett isn't even aCeltic anymore.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
But he was when I was actually watching the NBA Okay,
the Los Angeles Lakers, but youknow that that is not because
of this era, because I'm notwatching sports anymore, because
they're all about gambling andI can't enjoy it.
My era is Shaq and Kobe can'tenjoy it.
(31:49):
My era is Shaq and Kobe.
Wait a minute.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Stop.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
For a second.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Yeah, are you like?
You can't enjoy watching abaseball game or a hockey game
or a basketball game, becauseall you can think about is the
people that are gambling on itno, it's not the people they're
gambling on.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
It's actually the way the game is commented on and
the way the ads run and the waythe.
I used to love the analysisshows in the morning like ESPN
First Take, yeah.
And what has happened over timesince the legalization of
sports betting?
Also, I'm going to give myselfa rub here.
(32:29):
I am the former president ofthe International Gambling
Counselor Certification Board,so that is the seat I'm sitting
in when I say this.
I used to love sports andconsume them in different ways
every day.
I've listened to part in theinterruption.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Well, I used to love that show.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Hundreds and hundreds of days driving home from work.
I used to do that as a podcastor stream it on the ESPN plus
app every day on my drive homefrom work.
I love Will Bond, you know.
I love Tony Kornheiser.
I just think they're great tolisten to.
But what has happened over timeis, instead of talking about
(33:11):
how great it is that the Lakerswon a game, the commentary has
shifted to where it's sounfortunate that they only won
the game by three, because thatis lower than the, whatever it's
called.
That would cause people who bet$1,000 to gain $5,000.
(33:31):
The line right.
So they're not talking abouthow good it is for the Lakers to
have a 42 and 37 record and belike middle of the pack in the
Western Conference.
They're talking about how oftenthe Lakers enable people who
gamble to make profits in theirbets.
They don't care if LeBron Jamesgot a triple double.
(33:54):
They care if he got 31 pointson a night where he was
projected 30 and a half.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Right.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
And because of that, they're not talking about the
sport, they're not talking aboutthe competition and they're not
talking about the history ofthe game.
They're talking about, you know, johnny Sadface in Connecticut,
who put $712, when his savingshad 713, on LeBron James to
(34:23):
break that line and when he onlygets 29 points, that sad sucker
has to sell his car for a $20bill so he can get a Big Mac.
And it's devastating.
Because these are millionaires,their lives are set.
They're there to entertaininstead of being entertained by
them.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
We have to infuse our experience of joy with
self-suffering just so that wecan feel something, because
society is all about being numbnow I, I just like it when
somebody takes a slap shot andscores, or somebody scores a
touchdown or like shoots a threepointer, or the halftime half
(35:05):
court buzzer beater.
But I'm different, like I don'tgamble, like that's just not
for me.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Also, you're not a mental health counselor.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Yeah, do every client that I have worked with,
especially since starting to bemore specialized and less
general.
Parts of their stories liveinside me and I hurt whenever
(35:39):
these games remind me of theirpain and all I hear in the
commentary is their pain.
And so I don't watch sportsanymore and it's sad because
sometimes I miss it.
Like I can still watch theSuper Bowl, especially if the
Rams are in it.
(35:59):
Like I grew up close to Stlouis, even though they went
back to la, I still like thatteam.
I like the colors yeah, I getit feels good to me.
Um, you know, same with thecardinals right.
I like the st louis it's likethe.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
It's like the old charlotte hornets starter
jackets.
They were on fire because ofthe green and purple yeah, I
love that the hornets are back.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Uh, when they were the bobcats it was just sad um
thanks, marcus you're welcomenow that being said.
That being said, I feel likeyou know why does doc like the
la lakers?
I will answer that questionmark.
It's very good question becausewait.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Can I first answer it ?
Speaker 1 (36:37):
because yeah, he suck no Cause Okay.
So, believe it or not, I wasalways interested in psychology
and philosophy because those arelike yeah, always no way.
Yeah, so my original plan whenI was in elementary school was I
was going to be an astronaut oran NBA player.
(36:58):
I realized neither one of thosewere going to pan out, so I
started liking psychology at theage of like 10.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
All right, phil Jackson had a segment on the
Chicago station that did all theChicago Bulls stuff.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
And I grew up in Illinois.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
It was called philosophically speaking,
because he's Phil right, and soI learned what philosophical
means and it's related tophilosophy.
So then I started readingthings like the philosophy of
Star Wars and the philosophy ofLord of the Rings and the
philosophy of Harry Potter andjust like taking all the things
(37:34):
I loved and learning aboutphilosophy in it.
And this is like when I'm 14years old, and so I grew up
watching the Chicago Bullsdestroy everybody.
Yeah Right, because when theywere losing to the Pistons I was
too young to really followsports.
But as soon as I got to thepoint where I have memories
(37:54):
Bulls beat Lakers, bulls beatBlazers, bulls beat Suns.
And then Michael Jordan comesback Bulls beat the Sonics,
bulls beat the Jazz, bulls beatthe Jazz.
And then I moved to Florida.
Michael Jordan retires, philJackson coaches the Lakers.
So in order for me to keep myphilosophical speaking enjoyment
(38:18):
of the National BasketballAssociation, I also went in
spirit with Phil Jackson toCalifornia, because as soon as I
moved to Florida, shaq went toCalifornia.
I was like what the heck?
I was going to love the magic.
What are you doing?
I get it.
It worked and I ended up being aLakers fan.
(38:39):
This has nothing to do withvideo games unless we're playing
.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
NBA 2K25.
I love the fact that the gamingpersona has grown in its state
where we can go on sidebars andcome back to video games.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Well, Marcus, we didn't even get to the Mamba
mentality.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Well, that's going to lead us into the question,
because that has something to dowith me.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
So, so when I was a doc student and it was time to
start working on my dissertation, I had to have a major
behavioral change.
That actually is still with methis day, every single morning.
And there was an interviewwhere people were talking about
Kobe Bryant as a teammate on theOlympics team and how they were
(39:32):
shocked because they're justwaking up after partying and
doing this, that and whateverthey pass Kobe and he's just
like finishing his secondworkout of the day and it's like
8 30 AM.
It's like when was your firstworkout between four and five?
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Right.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
And so I was just like Whoa, I'm always so tired
when I get home from work.
I'm driving an hour one way toget to work.
Anyway, I'm counseling allthese people all day.
My emotional energy is spent onthem because I'm feeling for
them and I have to let that goand it's not the right headspace
for me to do my Star Wars, theOld Republic dissertation stuff.
So I was just like when is thetime where my brain is ready to
(40:13):
do this?
And it's like oh, 5 am, likeKobe and it was just a stupid
idea I had.
I was like I'm going to set myalarm for 5 am and see what
happens.
I wrote like three pages andthen I showered and went to work
and the whole day I was in thezone.
I had two clients no-show methat day and I wrote three more
(40:33):
pages.
So I'm just like oh my gosh, myenergy is the best in the
morning which, by the way, Irepeated that again on my push
for Twitch partner.
I was just like I don't streamin the evening.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
I'm done in the evening.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Yeah, and I switched it to the morning and it worked
and people came to me and hadfun and talk to me like so I owe
a lot um to when I read theMamba Mentality book for the
first time, but also justhearing that interview and
really getting into what it'slike to have an extreme work
(41:10):
ethic that people cannot match,and that has been my goal.
A lot of my professional lifeis just to get where I want to
go by pushing myself that way.
But I'm curious what you haveto say, because you are always
such a Celtics fan that when Imentioned Mamba mentality you
(41:33):
said that has to do with you.
And now the question marks arespinning around my head and I
have to know.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
So it kind of the same story, but opposite times,
right?
So I it's.
I'm two years into not workingfor myself.
Ever since I met doc.
I worked for myself Like docand I would have the most epic
hour long conversations while Iwas working in my shop and he
(42:00):
was grading papers.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Like yeah, he's your buzz sawing and I'm just
clicking grade rubrics and weand like we wouldn't every day.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Yeah, every day and for months and like there would
be times where him and Iwouldn't even speak to each
other for five or six minutesbecause we were both focused on
whatever we were doing.
But then we would pick rightback up in our conversation and
I was struggling mentally withI'm working 12, 16 hour days.
It's a long time.
(42:28):
I don't get to see my kids ormy wife often, but I still need
my gaming time because that's mytime to succeed for me.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
That's your therapy.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
That's my therapy and it, like Kobe, I had to find a
time and I had to say to myselfokay, every day, at 9 PM, I am
playing video games, I amsetting that schedule, or three
days a week, whatever thattimeline was, but nine o'clock
at night was my time and I wouldplay video games from nine to
(43:01):
11, nine to 12.
And I would sacrifice sleep.
Yes, but I needed it for my ownmental health to do it, because
the days I didn't like, I waslike eh, like a little like like
I felt like I was tense, likeyou need to yeah Like like, like
(43:43):
I'm getting electrocutedbecause I'm not playing, but
it's, it's.
It's, it's like the Mambamentality, but it's the lazy
version, because I'm sitting totell you right now, the time
with your kids before they'reout of diapers is a magical time
, but it's also the hardest timeof your life.
Those kids cannot do anythingon their own and it is struggle,
bus, and then, when you're nothome, a lot me and it's all on
my wife.
Literally I would come home andshe was like here's the baby.
You know what I mean.
I need an hour and so, and Iwas happy to do it.
(44:06):
The point I'm trying to make isI'm happy to do it.
The point I'm trying to make isto get your to be able to do X
like play Star Wars, the oldRepublic, play, play Destiny,
play whatever that game is.
And now you know I actuallyhave less time than I ever have
(44:28):
because my kids stay up laterand all these things, but I'm
still finding time to game oh,that's so nice.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
I don't think I've played a video game in three
days.
I did a stream, onay, it was ashort one because of my schedule
.
That's the last time I turnedanything on, so sad uh, I played
.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
So my son is playing baseball so I bought.
I bought mlb, the show, 23 show, yeah.
So I got it for like 17 dollars.
He doesn't know that it's old.
I don't really care becauseI've never played it and it's
been fun just playing threeinning games against each other
(45:09):
Instead of because it'sbasically we play Minecraft or
WWE together and he doesn'tunderstand the concept of a
wrestling match.
So he just punches me and kicksme the whole time.
He never goes for a pin, henever tries to submit you the
concept of a wrestling match sohe just punches me and kicks me
the whole time.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Uh, it's more, he never goes for a pin.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
He never tries to submit you well he does, but it
like, but the whole match is himjust punching me.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
And it's like the button mashers in a fighting
game oh yeah, so you don'treally get much out of the match
in terms of you get a starrating of one and a half.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Right.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
If you play that way, right.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
And then he gets so mad.
But the positive is we have aGunther belt and a Cody Rhodes
belt here, not the real ones ofthe kids, plastic ones and so
every day or every other day wewrestle each other and we put a
belt on the line.
So right now I'm the worldheavyweight champion and he's
the Cody Rhodes champion.
I put my belt up on the line alot more than he does.
(46:09):
But I'm going to tell you guys,right now I fuck him up.
We have this like big cushy,like Matt so competitive.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
He's your tiny little kid Marcus.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
Wait, do you know how hard that boy punches?
Speaker 1 (46:21):
You told us last week actually.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Yeah, dude, he jumps off the top rope to does full
Uso, splashes on me Like dudethat kid is no joke, and he
loves it.
Dude, I'll power bomb him ontothe big mat and he loves it.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
I just love you're so competitive with him.
It's fun to listen to.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Well, it's fun to listen to.
Well it's, everybody doesn'tget a trophy.
And he needs to understandlosing is okay and you can get
it back.
So like he'll win three matchesand I'll win one, but that one
I rub it in his face, but I putthe belt in his face, I'm the
champion, and he gets so mad.
But like he knows that, likeit's okay to lose, we're going
(47:00):
to get it back.
You know what I mean?
Kind of a thing.
It's one of those like it'slife lessons, yeet, but anyway.
So, doc, somebody asked you aquestion today, today, or was it
yesterday?
Speaker 1 (47:16):
it was today.
Yeah, it was a really good one,it's so.
This is community interactionright here.
Shout out to it's apologetic,okay uh so it's like apologetic,
but with nick at the end yeah,um, yeah.
So they're listening to thegamer's journey on audible great
(47:36):
choice.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
It's a great book.
If you guys haven't heard it,it's available anywhere you can
buy a book.
You should get it.
And it's wrote, written notonly the co-host of the show,
but the man, the myth, thenightmare raider, dr gamology,
aka formerly known as, like theartist formerly known as dr
swotor yes, all of that is true,and I didn't even have to say
(48:02):
it, which is fun we need a plugsound.
We need a sound like every timethere's a plug oh man, then we
have to edit harder.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
No, it needs to be like a.
Speaker 2 (48:13):
It's like a sound bite that we can play through
the thing like a soundboard andit just goes, I can figure it
out.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
So the question is they're going through a book
also at the same time aslistening to my book, that's on
flow, and wondering if that bookis consistent with my findings,
which Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi'swork is a foundational work
(48:40):
that led to me having the ideasthat I had, and he actually gave
me pointers on two of myresearch studies when he was
still alive.
So a little bit ofcollaboration from him and
mentorship.
So, yes, very consistent.
So that's the easy question toanswer here Is it consistent
with psychological flow?
Absolutely.
There's many tables and imagesin my book that explain flow
(49:03):
from my perspective for gamers.
And flow is really just whenyou balance your skill and your
experience in the moment and youmentally merge with the game.
It's a really nice feeling andI talk about it at experience,
in the moment, and you mentallymerge with the game.
It's a really nice feeling andI talk about it at length in the
book, a few different chapters.
But the real question, marcus,and this one could be its whole
(49:25):
episode, and maybe it will be,because I might read this
question and then we feel likeending it and leaving people on
a cliffhanger.
We never know.
Here's the question Do I findthat, while many people get
scared about video gameaddiction, that most players who
love games really do want moreof a life than games, but they
(49:45):
see games as something to helpthem out in the world that
happens for them outside ofplaying the game?
Yeah, so let me simplify thatquestion, because the word game
is in there a lot, it could geta little distracting.
So people worry a lot about ifwe're playing video games and
we're addicted to them.
But if we're worried about thatfor someone, is that player
(50:09):
actually wanting more in theirlife?
Is that player actually wantingmore in their life?
But they're playing the game tofigure out how to be ready for
that thing in their life byusing the skills that they use
as game players.
Speaker 2 (50:22):
I heard that completely different.
Speaker 1 (50:24):
Okay, what did you hear?
Speaker 2 (50:26):
I heard.
Do you want, like when you'replaying games, do you feel like
you should be doing somethingelse rather than playing games?
That's the way I heard it, youknow.
So, okay, I'm gonna go back.
I think about my time with starwars, the old republic, and how
(50:46):
like I was obsessed with thegame.
And it's not that I wasaddicted to it, I just enjoyed
playing it so much that any freetime I had I wanted to play
that game, and I didn't docertain things because I wanted
(51:09):
to play that game, because Iwanted to play that game.
So I can see where somebody wholoves the game as much as I
loved SWOTOR wanting to say oh,I'd really like to go on a
picnic or go out to Buffalo WildWings with my friends, but I'm
(51:30):
raiding tonight.
What if we get the cleartonight?
So I can understand that sideof that coin.
Speaker 1 (51:40):
In addiction psychology there is a key word
this is vocabulary here foreveryone it's salience, and
salience is basically when oneenjoyable activity becomes more
powerful than all otherenjoyable activities that are
similar in scope, to where youwill never choose anything else,
(52:04):
only that one.
And you know I'm going to usesomething that's a little bit
obscene in terms of addictionlanguage here, but you know, if
you have a person who is stuckin a cycle of routinely using
cocaine to get up and get amped,you know they're not going to.
(52:27):
They're not going to one day belike oh, I don't need that
because I have a mountain dew,right, because they're not
similar power levels, right, thethe feeling you get from one,
although they're both going tocreate some kind of positive
increased energy flow.
The mountain dew is anincreased energy flow of like
three out of ten.
(52:48):
The cocaine is like 14 out of10, right?
So like you're not evencompeting on the same scale.
So if people are experiencingthat with video games where you
know I could watch a movie withmy spouse or I could play a
video game and 10 times out of10 I pick the video game,
because movie time with thespouse doesn't sound really that
(53:09):
great we might kill the bosstonight.
Yeah, and you know so you'retreating.
You're trading one thing foranother, and so that is a sign
that there might be somethingout of balance in life.
But also if you treat somethinglike it's an obligation, like
there are other things you and Icould have been doing tonight,
(53:31):
marcus, but at 8.45, roughly ona Thursday we record the Gaming
Persona because it's ourresponsibility to keep the show
going, to share it with people,to come together and have this
friend time.
If you don't make time forsomething, then it doesn't exist
.
Don't look at whether youchoose to play a video game with
(53:52):
your free time as automaticallya sign that salience is in play
or you're addicted, because inadult life you have to choose to
make time for things that areimportant.
Speaker 2 (54:06):
Otherwise it will not be a part of who you are.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:10):
Yeah, yeah, Yep.
So you know the way thisquestion ends, though that most
players who love games really dowant more of a life than games,
but see games as something tohelp them out in the world
outside of the game.
So you know you might want tohave leadership responsibilities
(54:33):
at work, but you don't, andwork isn't looking at you for
that.
They don't see you that way.
But you could be a tank andlead a raid team and kill
Nightmare Brontes, and somebodygets the wings of the architect,
and that's a moment that youremember forever.
Speaker 2 (54:47):
Or you kill Melania.
Speaker 1 (54:50):
Right, you could take down Melia in elden ring.
You could do so many differentthings in video game worlds when
sometimes the world you're inat this part of time in your
life is not asking you to doanything except continue doing
what you're doing and you can dothat.
It's not a challenge, it's nota surprise.
But video games are a challengeand they do give you surprises.
(55:11):
And video games are anopportunity to escape the
mundane and save the worldwithout going to jail.
Right, like there are things inthis world that are worth
trying to improve and save.
And when we watch a CaptainAmerica movie, he runs around,
(55:33):
beats up the bad guys, isgenerally applauded.
But if Captain America did thatin our world, he'd get arrested
instantly, because he can'tpunch people and you can't throw
giant metal shields in theirface.
Right, it's just not allowed.
And I think that this world ispretty much anti-hero in a way
(55:54):
that the video game world is not.
You're supposed to be a hero inthere.
So let's escape into a worldwhere Ganondorf takes over.
Everything lives in the castle,hyrule is his, but you're
allowed to stop him.
Hmm, how grand an idea if wecould actually stop Ganondorf.
(56:17):
Continue the journey, friends.
Welcome to the Gaming Persona podcast.
This is the show that exploreswho we become when we play games
, whether you're saving kingdoms, leading epic raids or just
vibing in cozy indie worlds.
Join me, dr Gamology and mygood friend Marcus as we search
for all the ways gaming andpersonal growth collide.
Grab your controllers and let'scontinue the journey Now.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Dude I'm.
So I know you asked me a reallygood question today and it
really got me using my brain andlike thinking about things, but
I'm actually a little likeHeated not heated, heated is the
wrong word like almost like whodo they think they are kind of
(00:48):
a situation right now withnintendo?
Me and nintendo are not in likethe greatest relationship right
now oh, you're sleeping on thecouch, marcus with nintendo.
Yeah, I'm a little, I'm alittle heated all right.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Well, let's do it.
What's okay?
What's wrong with you?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
So did you watch the Nintendo Direct?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
No, because I was not at home yesterday.
I actually it's kind of muddy.
I don't think I'm allowed totalk on air about where I was
yesterday.
So let's just NDA that I wasnot able to watch this.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
But did you rewatch it?
Speaker 1 (01:26):
No, I'm not.
I don't care Like they hijackedmy birthday.
That's all I know.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yesterday was your birthday.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
No, June 5th is those jerks.
Everyone in the world is goingto be killing each other over
the five switch twos that theyhave on the shelves.
Bro, I got in acknowledging meand my greatness on the island
of relevancy well, the island inwwe 2k25 is actually really fun
anyway.
(01:54):
The island of microtransactions that's a different
thing altogether.
Yes, did you buy 18 crocs inthe island mode, marcus?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
you don't want your no, oh, alright, so uh gaming.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
We're throwing too many topics at our audience
right now we gotta settle down.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Are you drinking a Red Bull?
No, I'm drinking a lemonade ohokay, I was gonna say you're
fucking hardcore if you'redrinking a Red Bull at 9 o'clock
at night no, I'm drinking aMike's Hard nine o'clock at
night.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
No, I'm drinking a mike's hard lemonade.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
It's strawberry flavored I am so proud.
I was actually gonna bring itup to everybody in the gaming
persona community to call outdoc and tell him he has to have
a drink with the next podcast,but he is.
I'm having a beer.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Actually, I have three here I had nine webcam
related things yesterday andthat's with me missing my Twitch
stream because I was overbookedthis morning.
That happens.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
You're a busy guy.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
I am, I look jacked in this shirt.
Yeah, you look great.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I look jacked, anyway , with a big belly, but anyway,
moving on, okay, so here's thepremise.
I'm going to give the uberpositive thing and I'm going to
make a claim I have to be EldenRing by 2026 because Duskbloods
looks sick.
Okay, have you seen the trailer?
Nope?
(03:22):
Okay, you need to go watch that.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Right now it's basically Bloodborne 2, but they
can't use the name bloodbornebecause of international
copyright oh yeah, I did see allthe memes about that, with
people overreacting and beinglike finally bloodborne 2, and
then the name changes it's likestill bloodborne 2 yeah, but
like you need to watch thattrailer.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
It's sick because I'm gonna dive into it.
Because like this is this iswhere my relationship with
nintendo right now is struggling.
I'm on the nintendo strugglebus that um.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Carving on his hand looks painful, I would not be
down for.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
But he's becoming Blade Blade.
Yeah, he's going to be avampire.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I don't actually know that, but it sounds really good
From software.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Oh, it's got like a train and stuff, so that right
there is already different thandemon souls and elden ring and
dark souls.
I never played bloodborne,though, so this feels very
castlevania-esque to me well,yeah, I never played bloodborne
either.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
I have it, it's right here, never been opened oh wow,
you should open it.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
You should know it not, is?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
um?
They say that this is the Peggy, this is the Euro version.
Um, I might never open it, man.
Do you know how much this willbe worth someday if I don't open
it, because I can just get itdigitally?
Do you have PlayStation Plus?
Yeah, is that the onlinePlayStation?
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, that's how I got my Bloodborne on my
PlayStation account.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
I don't know if it's always available that way or if
it was a monthly thing.
I don't know.
I don't know either.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Oh, he just threw shadows on the ground and it
became another person yeah, dude, well no, so it's a co-op
multiplayer pvp e v e game.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
So it's from day one, me and you can co-op the game
that's the way I see it will thedamage and health of the enemy
scale for two people, so thatit's the same amount of
difficulty I would imagine it'sfrom soft yeah, they're not
gonna.
They're not gonna let twopeople go in there and the
enemies have the same amount ofhealth, right, because then
(05:53):
people just win the game thatway I want to win your game that
way you're not carrying me,marcus, I'm your.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
I'm sam, wise in this , I can't carry it for you, but
I can carry you so what I liketo say, it like showed, like,
like it seems like there'syou're gonna be able to ride a
train into like a like acastlevania-esque, like a final
(06:22):
City, you know what I mean.
And some of the moves and itshows, believe it or not, the
dancer, for me, looks reallycool.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yeah, did you finish it.
Yeah, it looked cool.
Yeah, I did so exclusive forthe Nintendo.
Switch.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yep Switch 2.
So Switch 2 is $499.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
And if that's with Mario Kart, Right, If you get
the standalone, it's $450.
To me now, like I'm being real,that is, I expect that if
they're going to be giving usup-to-date graphics where you
don't care about that.
But I do like, when thisoriginal Switch came out, it was
(07:12):
still like it was usingtechnology from 10 years ago.
They're saying that we haven'tgotten the specs.
They're saying that the specsin this are current gen.
So if that's the case, I canunderstand the price stack With
me.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Okay, here's where I'm not down with the sickness.
They're saying the games aregoing to be 80 bucks.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yeah, you have a problem with that.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
I kind of do.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Why I have a problem that games are 70 bucks you have
a problem with that yeah I havea really hard time buying a 70
game really, yeah, you know thisis.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
This is potentially a very dangerous conversation for
us to have.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Well, no, if you know it shouldn't be.
What I'm saying is is okay, soI'm going to.
I'm going to play both sides ofthe coin.
I understand studios have topay their employees more, so in
turn they need to charge morefor the game.
Right, Right.
But for years now you have hadbase game, let's say, $60,
(08:33):
digital deluxe, or like themiddle of the road, is either 90
or $100.
And then you have the ultimateedition, which is $120, right,
$120.
Right.
So if you really, really reallycare about the game and you
want the Collectors or you wantthe Roman Reigns cover or you
want Unlocked all the seasonsahead of time, you buy the $120
(08:56):
one because you're going to buyit anyways.
Got it, Got it.
But something in the back of myhead says $80 for a base game.
It seems out of control.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
I think what Nintendo is saying here is any game on
the switch to is automaticallynot a base game.
They're saying the switch iswhere, automatically not a base
game.
They're saying the Switch iswhere you play the base games
and these are where you play thebig boy games.
We'll see.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
And you might be right.
You might be right, but I willsay that the size comparison of
the Switch 2 versus the Switch 1is fucking awesome.
A couple things that I.
The thing about nintendo is theswitch isn't gonna suck when it
(09:54):
ships right.
You're not gonna worry aboutred ring of death.
You're not gonna worry aboutthe fans blowing up the
playstation.
You know what I mean.
Like in the early iterations ofthe playstation 4 there were
fan issues, blah, blah, blah.
The switch is.
I look at the switch is comingout like nintendo's products
usually come out bulletproofyeah, their.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Their quality assurance is the best in gaming,
quite possibly I don't evenknow if I need to qualify it
with.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Quite possibly their, their stuff works yeah, it's
like the old apple products, itjust works, but anyway.
So for me, like the systembeing fought, 450 bucks.
I'm just talking about the basesystem.
I'm fine with that.
Everything costs money, right,like my a graphics card.
(10:44):
If I buy the new graphics cardI want it's two thousand dollars
, right, just for the graphicscard.
So so for me, I understand whatthey're doing and you get a
playstation 5 for 500 bucks,right, yeah or no?
400.
Digital no 400.
Digital Edition is 400.
Disc version is 500.
(11:04):
Pro is 700.
Got it.
Xbox Series X is 500.
So, like they're keeping upwith the times, because I
guarantee the next Xbox or thenext PlayStation are going to be
$700.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Right, but it brings me back to the game price $80.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
It's just Okay.
So I know I have time to cooktonight, marcus, because
meetings and supervision andteaching class and all the
things Dr Gamology does to keepthe lights on and the bills paid
Right.
So, and teaching class and allthe things Dr Gamology does to
keep the lights on and the billspaid right.
So during a very quick break Ijust threw out there to my wife.
(11:52):
We didn't grocery shop forThursday night, so sorry, order
whatever you're craving and justI trust you.
You know what my diet and whatI need to eat, so just pick me
something, it'll be fine.
I can eat 630 to seven.
She's like I got you.
And I bet you, if I went intomy banking app right now and I
(12:17):
looked at the last door dash forthree people from our favorite
Chinese place down the streetWith delivery, with the $2.99
for them to drive it straight tome, with the three entrees and
the crab rangoon and some eggrolls, I bet you we pay DoorDash
(12:40):
$78.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
I'm going to go closer to $100.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Okay, yeah, I'm going to just for the sake of science
.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Okay, are we?
Speaker 1 (12:54):
going to do prices right rules.
Yeah, knock yourself out,Marcus.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
All right, I don't want to knock myself out, then
you won't have a co-host.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Well temporarily.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
You'll eventually wake up.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
It's not like a Gunther headlock.
Oh, we just threw back to lastweek.
We're pros.
Okay, it was $58,.
Marcus, okay, you know I'm afamily of three, though If we
were the traditional like, leaveit to beaver.
Family of four kind of yeah,like you.
Yeah, I bet you you would havehit like 75 to $80 right there.
(13:29):
My point is is the switch to,in the grand scheme of things,
that you're going to enjoy formore than 14 hours while you
digest it and then it comes outlooking like everything else
does Right?
Did you just go there?
Yeah, your switch to is goingto stay with you a long time,
nourishing your entertainmentneeds and making your cerebral
(13:50):
cortex light up in dopaminefirework displays that cannot
even be fathomed right now byour switch one minds.
I think people get so upsetover money leaving their life.
But money comes into your lifeso it can leave you and you die
(14:14):
and you don't take any of itwith you.
So, like you should not changethe way you see the world
because of the price of eggs orgas or switch to games, because
if you do, you're a jackass.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
I'm going to come back to this.
So for me it's more of likewhen, when it's a hard pill for
me to swallow.
That's what it pretty muchcomes down to, and it's a me
(14:52):
problem, right?
It's not an anybody elseproblem.
I feel like they could haveleft how much the games cost out
and they could have just beenlike hey, switch 2 is $450.
Wait a little while and thenstart talking about the pricing
of games, dropping it all atonce.
I understand your point, buthow about this?
(15:15):
I am less likely to buy twogames on launch than one.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Yeah, because you're looking at that like two games
is $160.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Plus tax yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Also, it is really dumb to buy the console only in
this situation.
Just get the $500 version thatgives you Mario Kart World.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
So, if you can get it right.
So I remember when the Xbox 360came out and there was a bundle
with maybe it was Halo I can'tremember what game was coming
Halo 3, maybe I forget what thegame was and you could either
get the console version or youcould get the bundle.
(16:01):
But the bundle, like we said,was like $80 more because it
came with an extra controllerand a game I forget what it was
on launch.
But anyway, all that was leftwas the bundle because people
didn't have the money to buy itall.
So for me I don't mind, but Ido have a friend who told me if
(16:30):
I want the pre-order list, he'llput me on it right away.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Oh, that's so nice, Marcus.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
See, the dilemma is, if I buy it, it's instantly
becoming my son's.
I'll be able to play it once ina while, but it ain't going to
be mine.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
You got to do like daily time checkout list and
yeah, I'll be winning.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yeah, when he goes to bed share.
But the only the real reason Ireally want this switch to is
because I really want visions ofmana to come out on the switch,
because I beat trials of manaon the switch, um, and I loved
it.
Visions of mana is the secondgame and it came out, but it's
not on the switch, it's on theplaystation and the xbox and
(17:15):
stuff and I don't won't play itbecause, like I loved playing a
level in my bedroom oh yeah youknow, they have solutions for
that.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
You could put a playstation 5 in your bedroom.
It's not the same.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
You get playstation portal no, I like sitting there
with my little nintendo switchand playing my game and then I
just get to a save point, fallasleep, shut it off and move on.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
But if you have playstation portal you could do
that.
But with game lag, how much?
Because your wi-fi won't beable to keep up with your your
streaming image on the portalyou know I tried to stream elden
ring this week.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
I was so excited and I was just getting crazy frame
rate drops.
I actually have to deletestream labs off my computer and
reinstall it because it won'tupdate I had to switch to obs
because of that.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
It got to the point where stream labs was taking so
many uh system resources awayfrom what needs to go out to the
public and all thetroubleshooting that I did.
The solution that wasrecommended.
The easiest solution was useOBS, not Streamlabs, but they
(18:36):
have created a plugin to workwell together where you have
Streamlabs in the menu of OBSnow.
So it's a good time to startdabbling in OBS.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
For the amount of streaming that I'm going to do.
I'm just going to deleteStreamlabs and reinstall it
Because that to me and if itdoesn't fix the problem, like I
had a problem where if I updatedmy graphics driver when I was
playing Destiny, it would lag,so I could never update my
driver in streamlapse.
(19:09):
It was weird yeah, but eitherway I rambled, but anyways, I
was so excited is a difficulthobby.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
It it's like a house of cards.
You just move one little thingand it all falls apart, and then
your whole, the way you sawyour morning or evening, is
ruined.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Um, yeah, well, I wanted to stream because I was
fighting the fire giant.
So I'm finally at a point inthis game where I'm like,
committed, I'm gonnaoped my assand I was like man, I don't know
(19:52):
did he step on you and crunchyou or roll on you I?
Don't know, he lit me on fire alot oh yeah, you should not be
on fire, marcus no anyway.
So I was excited, so I decidedto stream it and it failed.
But then I did it in Discordand my point is that I killed
(20:17):
the boss oh good, I killed thefire giant.
And then I got to a point inthe game where I got a real
cutscene Not like a boss cutscene and like, yeah, and like
it, this gate, like it's it.
This was the I call this thecut scene of saying hey, welcome
to the end game.
(20:38):
You know what I mean.
It's not the actual end endgame, but like it's not the
point of no return end game.
But this is like.
This is like hey, you've madeit this far, gotta go.
Good luck, see you on the otherside.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Are you a crumbling Faram Azula now?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Yeah, I was just going to say that, yep.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Cause we talked about that last week and you didn't
know.
And now you're there.
I'm so proud of you, Marcus.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
So I, um I'm in the crumbling pharma azula or
whatever it's called, and I justgot to a second or third sight
of grace.
Um, I'm just exploring thingsand like kind of like finding
things, I'm taking my time.
Um, is it weird that I don'tkill the dragons?
Like fighting the dragons?
I have no interest in killingthe dragons.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
You don't want to fight Plessudisax.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
No.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Oh my gosh, he's one of the best dragons, though,
cause you gotta you gotta sleepin your grave and wake up
thousands of years in the pastbefore he died, uh.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
I.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
I don't know if I so when you're when you're going,
you're going through, I believe,the capital, llandell capital,
or whatever.
I believe the bones that youclimb up to get into the castle
are that dragon's bones orsomething like that oh, that's
interesting you're travelinginto the past to fight that
(22:06):
dragon when it was alive, orsomething.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I didn't kill it Anyway, like I think, the only
dragon.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
I think I've killed in the whole game is Lim Graves.
Okay, Well, I like fighting thedragons, but then again I'm
ranged in magic and do not haveto spend as much time underneath
their feet as you do.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Right, I'm also so.
Anyway, I got lost.
I found my way back.
I was on like this balcony andI can see like the white fog.
Now I don't know who my boss is.
I usually will watch likevideos of people playing the
game after I've done it.
You know what I mean, but Iknow there's.
(22:53):
I know I'm coming up to a boss.
I hope it is not.
Oh, did I talk about whathappened to me last week with
you?
Speaker 1 (23:02):
I don't know, Marcus, but if you search your feelings
, you know who you're about tofight.
I think so, because you're myco-host on the gaming persona.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Well so I last week I got into a cave in I forget
where I was the mountaintops ofthe giants, and they have these
God skin mofos.
Yeah, more of those, yep, everyweek I was God skin mofos.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah, god skins More of those Yep Every week.
You and God skins.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Yep.
So this week I was there and Iwas with Doc and he was watching
and I didn't beat it becausethere was one of them.
Well, I woke up at like four inthe morning because I couldn't
sleep, because I just wanted tobeat him and I came in here,
turned on my computer and I beatthe first God skin noble,
mother trucker.
I beat the Godskin Noble.
(23:50):
In a second one, the fat oneappeared.
I was like mother fudger, I wasso mad.
I was like I feel deceived.
But here's the problem.
I know, because of Doc playingthis game, that there's a time
(24:11):
where I'm going to have to fighttwo of those at once and, if I
remember correctly, I don't knowwhen it comes, but I know it's
coming.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
but you have to kill each of them twice.
Yes, that's true.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
So you essentially have to fight them four, four of
them in one boss fight.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
How in the F am I going to handle that if I can't
handle two?
Speaker 1 (24:31):
You're going to hold up a bell right here and you're
going to go ding, ding, and thensolo Sako is going to come out
and spike them in the throat.
Oh God, bloodline rules, marcus.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Bloodline rules, anyway, moving on.
So I'm in crumbling farm Azula,but then I know there's a boss.
There's a boss.
I want to say it's mega death,not mega death.
Oh my god, malacath millenniaand the elden lord guy yeah.
(25:06):
Those are my bosses that areleft.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yep, you got Horalu.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Who's that?
Speaker 1 (25:13):
He's like Hulk Hogan with a lion.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
That's Malekith.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
No, Malekith is something else.
He's just got a big black sword.
Oh no, Horalu is at the base ofthe Erd tree after crumbling
Faramizula.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I don't even know what you're talking about, but
it sounds scary.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
It's fun.
You have some great momentsleft to experience.
I'm really excited that we'redoing this show when you decided
to do this instead of you justbeing the game years ago, when
you were doing Working ClassNerds, which would have been
great.
But I'm glad that I'm heretalking to you about it.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
I just feel really lucky Because I'm in a place
where it's actually like this iswhere this is the end game.
I'm fighting real, like it'sactually like this is where this
is the end game.
I'm fighting real, like there'sno more easy bosses that I'm
going to, there's no more easybosses that I'm going to just
(26:22):
walk all over.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
You might surprise yourself with some of them,
though, maybe not, maybe, not,maybe not.
It'll be easier to take downsome of these bosses than it
will be to spend $80 on a switchto game truth.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
So yeah, that's a that's.
I just rambled for like a halfan hour.
Doc, what is your next game?
You're really gonna play that'sa tough question.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
I did pick up dragon's dogma 2 over this past
week.
It was on the spring sale onthe playstation store and I've
wanted that game for about ayear and so I saw the price.
I was like that's perfect forme.
I'm gonna pick it up.
I don't know when I'm gonnaplay it, but it's in my
playstation account now.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Um how much was it?
Speaker 1 (27:21):
30, I think, or maybe maybe it was 20, it was either.
I I don't remember.
But when a full price game hitsthat I'm good.
That's a big discount.
When you're talking a $70 game.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Oh, yeah, for sure, if it's a game that you want to
play, but it's not the importantgame that you get on launch.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Right.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
You know what I mean?
Then, yes, that's when youscoop it up.
That's why I love the Steamsales and stuff.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Oh yeah, steam has thrown a lot of emails my way
and it's been tough to not reactto them, because every day you
just get four or five games onyour wishlist that are heavily
discounted.
So Steam is a great way to savemoney and still get to play a
ton of games.
So for me, I might look intostreaming.
(28:09):
Uh, I have options.
Right, I have monster hunterand and assassin's creed.
But here's the thing, marcus, Ihave my research partner, dr
stephanie diaz is is a lifelongfan, like her favorite game
franchise is Monster Hunter, andwe have talked about doing
(28:33):
writing projects together thatwould focus on Monster Hunter
either more research, like whatI've done with Sotor and Final
Fantasy and honestly, it lookslike the setup of the game is
perfect for that kind ofresearch.
You have character creation andyou have an end game, so for me
, there are some professionalincentives for me to figure out
(28:54):
how to love that franchise well,I guess I'm sorry I should have
.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Before I said meh, I should have said you should ask
dr diaz um which monster huntershe suggests you play first.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
That's a good thing to bring up too, cause my most
popular social posts of all timewas me shooting my mouth off
after five hours of monsterhunter and saying I don't think
this is the best one to playbecause I have no idea what the
heck is going on.
And I'm a new player and thenall the old school players that
(29:30):
know how to do everythingalready are like this is the
easiest one to play.
It's like you don't, like youthink that you have this right
in your head but you're actuallybackwards on this.
I'm the one who gets to commenton how easy the new one is to
pick up as their first game.
For sure who gets to comment onhow easy the new one is to pick
up as their first game?
(29:50):
For sure, because, becauseyou've played all 12 games in
this franchise since day one,you are perfect at this game.
You know what you're lookingfor.
You don't need the tutorialsand you instantly know how to
take down monsters just bylooking at them right right, so
that was fun for a week.
To get criticized on socialmedia as a noob um I still I.
(30:17):
I.
I feel like that conversationwas actually good for me,
because I learned a lot moreabout gaming communities.
I usually don't I'm not the onewho is open to get dunked on,
you know, so that was fun wait,wait, wait.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
You did savage and nightmare raiding in MMOs.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
You got dunked on every night yeah, that's true,
because that was before Ideveloped the self respect for
me to tell a game company youdon't get to decide how I enjoy
this game.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
I don't know if I've ever asked this what's your
favorite?
Who's your favorite basketballteam?
Speaker 1 (31:00):
You're going to hate me, marcus, if you say the
fucking Lakers.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
I'm hitting the.
Oh, I don't control the endbutton.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
You don't control the end button.
You don't control the endbutton and you already knew the
answer to that question before Ianswer.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Yeah, you're a Celtics fan.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
I am not a Celtics fan.
I find Kevin Garnett to be alittle bit hard to to deal with.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
He's not wait.
Kevin Garnett isn't even aCeltic anymore.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
But he was when I was actually watching the NBA Okay,
the Los Angeles Lakers, but youknow that that is not because
of this era, because I'm notwatching sports anymore, because
they're all about gambling andI can't enjoy it.
My era is Shaq and Kobe can'tenjoy it.
(31:49):
My era is Shaq and Kobe.
Wait a minute.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Stop.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
For a second.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Yeah, are you like?
You can't enjoy watching abaseball game or a hockey game
or a basketball game, becauseall you can think about is the
people that are gambling on itno, it's not the people they're
gambling on.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
It's actually the way the game is commented on and
the way the ads run and the waythe.
I used to love the analysisshows in the morning like ESPN
First Take, yeah.
And what has happened over timesince the legalization of
sports betting?
Also, I'm going to give myselfa rub here.
(32:29):
I am the former president ofthe International Gambling
Counselor Certification Board,so that is the seat I'm sitting
in when I say this.
I used to love sports andconsume them in different ways
every day.
I've listened to part in theinterruption.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Well, I used to love that show.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Hundreds and hundreds of days driving home from work.
I used to do that as a podcastor stream it on the ESPN plus
app every day on my drive homefrom work.
I love Will Bond, you know.
I love Tony Kornheiser.
I just think they're great tolisten to.
But what has happened over timeis, instead of talking about
(33:11):
how great it is that the Lakerswon a game, the commentary has
shifted to where it's sounfortunate that they only won
the game by three, because thatis lower than the, whatever it's
called.
That would cause people who bet$1,000 to gain $5,000.
(33:31):
The line right.
So they're not talking abouthow good it is for the Lakers to
have a 42 and 37 record and belike middle of the pack in the
Western Conference.
They're talking about how oftenthe Lakers enable people who
gamble to make profits in theirbets.
They don't care if LeBron Jamesgot a triple double.
(33:54):
They care if he got 31 pointson a night where he was
projected 30 and a half.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Right.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
And because of that, they're not talking about the
sport, they're not talking aboutthe competition and they're not
talking about the history ofthe game.
They're talking about, you know, johnny Sadface in Connecticut,
who put $712, when his savingshad 713, on LeBron James to
(34:23):
break that line and when he onlygets 29 points, that sad sucker
has to sell his car for a $20bill so he can get a Big Mac.
And it's devastating.
Because these are millionaires,their lives are set.
They're there to entertaininstead of being entertained by
them.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
We have to infuse our experience of joy with
self-suffering just so that wecan feel something, because
society is all about being numbnow I, I just like it when
somebody takes a slap shot andscores, or somebody scores a
touchdown or like shoots a threepointer, or the halftime half
(35:05):
court buzzer beater.
But I'm different, like I don'tgamble, like that's just not
for me.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Also, you're not a mental health counselor.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Yeah, do every client that I have worked with,
especially since starting to bemore specialized and less
general.
Parts of their stories liveinside me and I hurt whenever
(35:39):
these games remind me of theirpain and all I hear in the
commentary is their pain.
And so I don't watch sportsanymore and it's sad because
sometimes I miss it.
Like I can still watch theSuper Bowl, especially if the
Rams are in it.
(35:59):
Like I grew up close to Stlouis, even though they went
back to la, I still like thatteam.
I like the colors yeah, I getit feels good to me.
Um, you know, same with thecardinals right.
I like the st louis it's likethe.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
It's like the old charlotte hornets starter
jackets.
They were on fire because ofthe green and purple yeah, I
love that the hornets are back.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Uh, when they were the bobcats it was just sad um
thanks, marcus you're welcomenow that being said.
That being said, I feel likeyou know why does doc like the
la lakers?
I will answer that questionmark.
It's very good question becausewait.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Can I first answer it ?
Speaker 1 (36:37):
because yeah, he suck no Cause Okay.
So, believe it or not, I wasalways interested in psychology
and philosophy because those arelike yeah, always no way.
Yeah, so my original plan whenI was in elementary school was I
was going to be an astronaut oran NBA player.
(36:58):
I realized neither one of thosewere going to pan out, so I
started liking psychology at theage of like 10.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
All right, phil Jackson had a segment on the
Chicago station that did all theChicago Bulls stuff.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
And I grew up in Illinois.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
It was called philosophically speaking,
because he's Phil right, and soI learned what philosophical
means and it's related tophilosophy.
So then I started readingthings like the philosophy of
Star Wars and the philosophy ofLord of the Rings and the
philosophy of Harry Potter andjust like taking all the things
(37:34):
I loved and learning aboutphilosophy in it.
And this is like when I'm 14years old, and so I grew up
watching the Chicago Bullsdestroy everybody.
Yeah Right, because when theywere losing to the Pistons I was
too young to really followsports.
But as soon as I got to thepoint where I have memories
(37:54):
Bulls beat Lakers, bulls beatBlazers, bulls beat Suns.
And then Michael Jordan comesback Bulls beat the Sonics,
bulls beat the Jazz, bulls beatthe Jazz.
And then I moved to Florida.
Michael Jordan retires, philJackson coaches the Lakers.
So in order for me to keep myphilosophical speaking enjoyment
(38:18):
of the National BasketballAssociation, I also went in
spirit with Phil Jackson toCalifornia, because as soon as I
moved to Florida, shaq went toCalifornia.
I was like what the heck?
I was going to love the magic.
What are you doing?
I get it.
It worked and I ended up being aLakers fan.
(38:39):
This has nothing to do withvideo games unless we're playing
.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
NBA 2K25.
I love the fact that the gamingpersona has grown in its state
where we can go on sidebars andcome back to video games.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Well, Marcus, we didn't even get to the Mamba
mentality.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Well, that's going to lead us into the question,
because that has something to dowith me.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
So, so when I was a doc student and it was time to
start working on my dissertation, I had to have a major
behavioral change.
That actually is still with methis day, every single morning.
And there was an interviewwhere people were talking about
Kobe Bryant as a teammate on theOlympics team and how they were
(39:32):
shocked because they're justwaking up after partying and
doing this, that and whateverthey pass Kobe and he's just
like finishing his secondworkout of the day and it's like
8 30 AM.
It's like when was your firstworkout between four and five?
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Right.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
And so I was just like Whoa, I'm always so tired
when I get home from work.
I'm driving an hour one way toget to work.
Anyway, I'm counseling allthese people all day.
My emotional energy is spent onthem because I'm feeling for
them and I have to let that goand it's not the right headspace
for me to do my Star Wars, theOld Republic dissertation stuff.
So I was just like when is thetime where my brain is ready to
(40:13):
do this?
And it's like oh, 5 am, likeKobe and it was just a stupid
idea I had.
I was like I'm going to set myalarm for 5 am and see what
happens.
I wrote like three pages andthen I showered and went to work
and the whole day I was in thezone.
I had two clients no-show methat day and I wrote three more
(40:33):
pages.
So I'm just like oh my gosh, myenergy is the best in the
morning which, by the way, Irepeated that again on my push
for Twitch partner.
I was just like I don't streamin the evening.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
I'm done in the evening.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Yeah, and I switched it to the morning and it worked
and people came to me and hadfun and talk to me like so I owe
a lot um to when I read theMamba Mentality book for the
first time, but also justhearing that interview and
really getting into what it'slike to have an extreme work
(41:10):
ethic that people cannot match,and that has been my goal.
A lot of my professional lifeis just to get where I want to
go by pushing myself that way.
But I'm curious what you haveto say, because you are always
such a Celtics fan that when Imentioned Mamba mentality you
(41:33):
said that has to do with you.
And now the question marks arespinning around my head and I
have to know.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
So it kind of the same story, but opposite times,
right?
So I it's.
I'm two years into not workingfor myself.
Ever since I met doc.
I worked for myself Like docand I would have the most epic
hour long conversations while Iwas working in my shop and he
(42:00):
was grading papers.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Like yeah, he's your buzz sawing and I'm just
clicking grade rubrics and weand like we wouldn't every day.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Yeah, every day and for months and like there would
be times where him and Iwouldn't even speak to each
other for five or six minutesbecause we were both focused on
whatever we were doing.
But then we would pick rightback up in our conversation and
I was struggling mentally withI'm working 12, 16 hour days.
It's a long time.
(42:28):
I don't get to see my kids ormy wife often, but I still need
my gaming time because that's mytime to succeed for me.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
That's your therapy.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
That's my therapy and it, like Kobe, I had to find a
time and I had to say to myselfokay, every day, at 9 PM, I am
playing video games, I amsetting that schedule, or three
days a week, whatever thattimeline was, but nine o'clock
at night was my time and I wouldplay video games from nine to
(43:01):
11, nine to 12.
And I would sacrifice sleep.
Yes, but I needed it for my ownmental health to do it, because
the days I didn't like, I waslike eh, like a little like like
I felt like I was tense, likeyou need to yeah Like like, like
(43:43):
I'm getting electrocutedbecause I'm not playing, but
it's, it's.
It's, it's like the Mambamentality, but it's the lazy
version, because I'm sitting totell you right now, the time
with your kids before they'reout of diapers is a magical time
, but it's also the hardest timeof your life.
Those kids cannot do anythingon their own and it is struggle,
bus, and then, when you're nothome, a lot me and it's all on
my wife.
Literally I would come home andshe was like here's the baby.
You know what I mean.
I need an hour and so, and Iwas happy to do it.
(44:06):
The point I'm trying to make isI'm happy to do it.
The point I'm trying to make isto get your to be able to do X
like play Star Wars, the oldRepublic, play, play Destiny,
play whatever that game is.
And now you know I actuallyhave less time than I ever have
(44:28):
because my kids stay up laterand all these things, but I'm
still finding time to game oh,that's so nice.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
I don't think I've played a video game in three
days.
I did a stream, onay, it was ashort one because of my schedule
.
That's the last time I turnedanything on, so sad uh, I played
.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
So my son is playing baseball so I bought.
I bought mlb, the show, 23 show, yeah.
So I got it for like 17 dollars.
He doesn't know that it's old.
I don't really care becauseI've never played it and it's
been fun just playing threeinning games against each other
(45:09):
Instead of because it'sbasically we play Minecraft or
WWE together and he doesn'tunderstand the concept of a
wrestling match.
So he just punches me and kicksme the whole time.
He never goes for a pin, henever tries to submit you the
concept of a wrestling match sohe just punches me and kicks me
the whole time.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Uh, it's more, he never goes for a pin.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
He never tries to submit you well he does, but it
like, but the whole match is himjust punching me.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
And it's like the button mashers in a fighting
game oh yeah, so you don'treally get much out of the match
in terms of you get a starrating of one and a half.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Right.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
If you play that way, right.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
And then he gets so mad.
But the positive is we have aGunther belt and a Cody Rhodes
belt here, not the real ones ofthe kids, plastic ones and so
every day or every other day wewrestle each other and we put a
belt on the line.
So right now I'm the worldheavyweight champion and he's
the Cody Rhodes champion.
I put my belt up on the line alot more than he does.
(46:09):
But I'm going to tell you guys,right now I fuck him up.
We have this like big cushy,like Matt so competitive.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
He's your tiny little kid Marcus.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
Wait, do you know how hard that boy punches?
Speaker 1 (46:21):
You told us last week actually.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Yeah, dude, he jumps off the top rope to does full
Uso, splashes on me Like dudethat kid is no joke, and he
loves it.
Dude, I'll power bomb him ontothe big mat and he loves it.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
I just love you're so competitive with him.
It's fun to listen to.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Well, it's fun to listen to.
Well it's, everybody doesn'tget a trophy.
And he needs to understandlosing is okay and you can get
it back.
So like he'll win three matchesand I'll win one, but that one
I rub it in his face, but I putthe belt in his face, I'm the
champion, and he gets so mad.
But like he knows that, likeit's okay to lose, we're going
(47:00):
to get it back.
You know what I mean?
Kind of a thing.
It's one of those like it'slife lessons, yeet, but anyway.
So, doc, somebody asked you aquestion today, today, or was it
yesterday?
Speaker 1 (47:16):
it was today.
Yeah, it was a really good one,it's so.
This is community interactionright here.
Shout out to it's apologetic,okay uh so it's like apologetic,
but with nick at the end yeah,um, yeah.
So they're listening to thegamer's journey on audible great
(47:36):
choice.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
It's a great book.
If you guys haven't heard it,it's available anywhere you can
buy a book.
You should get it.
And it's wrote, written notonly the co-host of the show,
but the man, the myth, thenightmare raider, dr gamology,
aka formerly known as, like theartist formerly known as dr
swotor yes, all of that is true,and I didn't even have to say
(48:02):
it, which is fun we need a plugsound.
We need a sound like every timethere's a plug oh man, then we
have to edit harder.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
No, it needs to be like a.
Speaker 2 (48:13):
It's like a sound bite that we can play through
the thing like a soundboard andit just goes, I can figure it
out.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
So the question is they're going through a book
also at the same time aslistening to my book, that's on
flow, and wondering if that bookis consistent with my findings,
which Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi'swork is a foundational work
(48:40):
that led to me having the ideasthat I had, and he actually gave
me pointers on two of myresearch studies when he was
still alive.
So a little bit ofcollaboration from him and
mentorship.
So, yes, very consistent.
So that's the easy question toanswer here Is it consistent
with psychological flow?
Absolutely.
There's many tables and imagesin my book that explain flow
(49:03):
from my perspective for gamers.
And flow is really just whenyou balance your skill and your
experience in the moment and youmentally merge with the game.
It's a really nice feeling andI talk about it at experience,
in the moment, and you mentallymerge with the game.
It's a really nice feeling andI talk about it at length in the
book, a few different chapters.
But the real question, marcus,and this one could be its whole
(49:25):
episode, and maybe it will be,because I might read this
question and then we feel likeending it and leaving people on
a cliffhanger.
We never know.
Here's the question Do I findthat, while many people get
scared about video gameaddiction, that most players who
love games really do want moreof a life than games, but they
(49:45):
see games as something to helpthem out in the world that
happens for them outside ofplaying the game?
Yeah, so let me simplify thatquestion, because the word game
is in there a lot, it could geta little distracting.
So people worry a lot about ifwe're playing video games and
we're addicted to them.
But if we're worried about thatfor someone, is that player
(50:09):
actually wanting more in theirlife?
Is that player actually wantingmore in their life?
But they're playing the game tofigure out how to be ready for
that thing in their life byusing the skills that they use
as game players.
Speaker 2 (50:22):
I heard that completely different.
Speaker 1 (50:24):
Okay, what did you hear?
Speaker 2 (50:26):
I heard.
Do you want, like when you'replaying games, do you feel like
you should be doing somethingelse rather than playing games?
That's the way I heard it, youknow.
So, okay, I'm gonna go back.
I think about my time with starwars, the old republic, and how
(50:46):
like I was obsessed with thegame.
And it's not that I wasaddicted to it, I just enjoyed
playing it so much that any freetime I had I wanted to play
that game, and I didn't docertain things because I wanted
(51:09):
to play that game, because Iwanted to play that game.
So I can see where somebody wholoves the game as much as I
loved SWOTOR wanting to say oh,I'd really like to go on a
picnic or go out to Buffalo WildWings with my friends, but I'm
(51:30):
raiding tonight.
What if we get the cleartonight?
So I can understand that sideof that coin.
Speaker 1 (51:40):
In addiction psychology there is a key word
this is vocabulary here foreveryone it's salience, and
salience is basically when oneenjoyable activity becomes more
powerful than all otherenjoyable activities that are
similar in scope, to where youwill never choose anything else,
(52:04):
only that one.
And you know I'm going to usesomething that's a little bit
obscene in terms of addictionlanguage here, but you know, if
you have a person who is stuckin a cycle of routinely using
cocaine to get up and get amped,you know they're not going to.
(52:27):
They're not going to one day belike oh, I don't need that
because I have a mountain dew,right, because they're not
similar power levels, right, thethe feeling you get from one,
although they're both going tocreate some kind of positive
increased energy flow.
The mountain dew is anincreased energy flow of like
three out of ten.
(52:48):
The cocaine is like 14 out of10, right?
So like you're not evencompeting on the same scale.
So if people are experiencingthat with video games where you
know I could watch a movie withmy spouse or I could play a
video game and 10 times out of10 I pick the video game,
because movie time with thespouse doesn't sound really that
(53:09):
great we might kill the bosstonight.
Yeah, and you know so you'retreating.
You're trading one thing foranother, and so that is a sign
that there might be somethingout of balance in life.
But also if you treat somethinglike it's an obligation, like
there are other things you and Icould have been doing tonight,
(53:31):
marcus, but at 8.45, roughly ona Thursday we record the Gaming
Persona because it's ourresponsibility to keep the show
going, to share it with people,to come together and have this
friend time.
If you don't make time forsomething, then it doesn't exist
.
Don't look at whether youchoose to play a video game with
(53:52):
your free time as automaticallya sign that salience is in play
or you're addicted, because inadult life you have to choose to
make time for things that areimportant.
Speaker 2 (54:06):
Otherwise it will not be a part of who you are.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:10):
Yeah, yeah, Yep.
So you know the way thisquestion ends, though that most
players who love games really dowant more of a life than games,
but see games as something tohelp them out in the world
outside of the game.
So you know you might want tohave leadership responsibilities
(54:33):
at work, but you don't, andwork isn't looking at you for
that.
They don't see you that way.
But you could be a tank andlead a raid team and kill
Nightmare Brontes, and somebodygets the wings of the architect,
and that's a moment that youremember forever.
Speaker 2 (54:47):
Or you kill Melania.
Speaker 1 (54:50):
Right, you could take down Melia in elden ring.
You could do so many differentthings in video game worlds when
sometimes the world you're inat this part of time in your
life is not asking you to doanything except continue doing
what you're doing and you can dothat.
It's not a challenge, it's nota surprise.
But video games are a challengeand they do give you surprises.
(55:11):
And video games are anopportunity to escape the
mundane and save the worldwithout going to jail.
Right, like there are things inthis world that are worth
trying to improve and save.
And when we watch a CaptainAmerica movie, he runs around,
(55:33):
beats up the bad guys, isgenerally applauded.
But if Captain America did thatin our world, he'd get arrested
instantly, because he can'tpunch people and you can't throw
giant metal shields in theirface.
Right, it's just not allowed.
And I think that this world ispretty much anti-hero in a way
(55:54):
that the video game world is not.
You're supposed to be a hero inthere.
So let's escape into a worldwhere Ganondorf takes over.
Everything lives in the castle,hyrule is his, but you're
allowed to stop him.
Hmm, how grand an idea if wecould actually stop Ganondorf.
(56:17):
Continue the journey, friends.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.