July 24, 2025 • 50 mins
Dr. Gamology, Marcus, and Doritos explore the powerful nostalgia of the games that shaped them and reflect on dramatic graphical evolution from early pixels to modern photorealism. They examine how gaming experiences from childhood created lasting preferences and identities.
• Marcus shares how NHL hockey games on Super Nintendo fostered his love for social gaming
• Doritos recalls starting with Commodore 64 and Atari before finding his passion with Knights of the Old Republic
• Dr. Gamology connects NBA Jam and Michael Jordan to his early exploration of game character identity
• The hosts examine how graphical leaps between console generations created watershed moments in gaming
• Marcus presents his collection of original cartridges, triggering powerful nostalgic reactions
• The group discusses ritualistic behaviors like blowing on cartridges and hitting reset buttons
• Dr. Gamology reveals how Star Wars: The Old Republic experiences shaped his academic research direction
• The hosts compare generational perspectives on game technology and preservation
• Nostalgia proves to be the connecting thread between all recent podcast topics
Continue the journey with us as we explore the games that made us who we are today.
If you would like to support the show and help us unlock additional possibilities for future episodes and projects, this can now be done through Patreon!
You can watch us play games LIVE and join our communities to get more connection from every episode:
- DrGameology on Twitch - Continue the Journey LIVE in 2025!!
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Thanks for Listening, and Continue The Journey!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Gaming Persona podcast.
This is the show that exploreswho we become when we play games
, whether you're saving kingdoms, leading epic raids or just
vibing in cozy indie worlds.
Join me, dr Gamology and mygood friend Marcus as we search
for all the ways gaming andpersonal growth collide.
Grab your controllers and let'scontinue the journey Now.
(00:21):
Continue the journey now.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
You know, in other words in other worlds.
I finished my second thousandpage book and I got book three
right here.
This thing, is ginormous.
It is ginormous this one.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
I don't know how many pages it is.
It the size of the book, marcus.
It's the motion of the pageturn uh 1,233 pages that's a lot
.
They they needed an editor.
I'm just telling you right now,like I was gonna do that and dr
anth Bean told me what the hellDaniel.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
But it's you know, it's a fantasy book.
I've never read fantasy beforeever, and I saw a YouTube video
talking about this Stormlightseries by Brandon Sanderson.
All I've ever read really isstar wars books, because that's
really the only compelling book.
There's like the gamer'sjourney, but that's like you
(01:31):
know, that's like uh one or twoand done.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Yeah, that's me yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
So we don't like to talk about that.
And I've read a bunch of, likewarhammer books.
But the warhammer books are sodetailed and I fell into this
series and there's five books sofar and it's really really good
and I've kind of hooked on it.
But what's nice is I've beenworking alone so much that I'll,
at my 30 minute lunch I'll read, you know, five pages in 30
(01:59):
minutes because I I'm dyslexic,you know sounds right.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
I have a real curveball to throw in this
conversation, but you have topromise to only brief me a
reasonable amount if I trust youwith this information.
Oh boy, so I don't know ifeither of you know this, but the
field of counseling.
No, I Based on the last 20episodes of our show.
(02:27):
Well done, marcus, but no,that's not where we were going.
Um, the field of counseling isincredibly female dominated and,
if we go with genderstereotypes, there is a category
of books that cater to femaleaudiences that I end up having
lots of conversations about, butI've never read any of them.
So during one of my internshipcourses, one of the students
(02:50):
asked if I had ever read acertain book, and I knew what
they were talking about beforethey even finished the sentence,
because that exact week I hadstarted reading my first ever
Romantasy book.
And so I'm in the middle ofIron Flame, which is the
Empyrean saga.
It's like dragons and romanceand like going to college, like
(03:13):
Hogwarts, learning how to be adragon rider killing machine,
the Empyrean saga.
So the first book is calledFourth Wing.
It's by Rebecca Yaros and I'mreally enjoying it.
It's my Fourth Wing it's byRebecca Yaros and I'm really
enjoying it.
It's my also first step into adifferent style of book and
there are sexy scenes and stuff.
(03:33):
But as far as the type ofreading it kind of reminds me of
a young adult version of Gameof Thrones.
But because the structure ofthe book is going to school to
learn how to be a militarykilling machine that rides
dragons kind of has a HogwartsyHarry Potter for mature
audiences kind of vibe, I likeit.
I'm turning a new leaf.
(03:54):
Also, something really coolhappened that was on none of our
bingo cards this morning and Iknow you both know about it
because I told Doritos first andthen I told both of you at the
same time immediately after.
But I am now officially aneducation game, video game
(04:15):
character, did you?
Did you know that, marcus?
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Yes, yeah, yes yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
First off so this company that um kind bridge is
using to help gamify some of theelements of my gambling
counselor training decided toturn one of the quizzes for my
modules into an interactive gamewhere you walk as a little like
28 bit version of me through acasino and you have to find the
(04:46):
right doors to walk through inorder to navigate it
successfully, and the doors arethe answer options for the
questions that are up at the topof the screen and they're like
yeah, that's you.
That's based on your headshot,so it's the people who do the
training are going to play thequiz game as a digital version
(05:09):
of me I can't find this book.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
I'm frustrated what happened?
Speaker 3 (05:15):
what happens if you play?
Speaker 1 (05:16):
they pick the wrong door we actually talked about
that today and I think there'sgoing to be a different set of
like a couple sets of failureanimations.
One of the things that happenswhen a gambler has a problem is
they can sign a legal contractthat basically is a trespass
order on the casino, so they'relegally not allowed to be there.
And so if you go there anywaybecause your gambling addiction
(05:41):
convinces you it's going to beokay, and they catch you,
security can handcuff you andwalk you out, or they can call
the police and have you go tothe station.
Uh, so we might have a securityguard come out of the door and
drag me down the hallway if youget the question wrong.
That's something we talkedabout today wow.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Well, you know, as you check things off in your box
of things you're doing, you cannow say you're a video game
character yeah you're not onethat I created right, not one
that I created right, you're anaward-winning author, you, uh
(06:26):
well, oh, you are a part of theun I'm not part of the un I'm on
speed dial for the un, though.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
That is true.
I'm doing a webinar for themnext week oh boy yeah, I just
yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I can't find your book Really.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
No Fourth Wing, because he was trying to look
for the series, not the book.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Oh I was looking.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Oh, I'm sorry, I found Fourth Wing but I didn't
find the series.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah, actually the series.
You only know what it's calledif you look on the copyright
page yes, rebecca yaros, you'rereading the fourth wing fly or
die yeah, I finished that one.
I'm on the second one, which iscalled iron flame I walk by
these books in um parson novel Iby these books in um.
(07:24):
Parson Novel.
I mean, these books aremainstream.
I've seen them at Target.
They're not hard to find Lotsof.
I mean, the only the onlyseries that is on the shelves
more than them is, uh, court ofThorn and Roses.
You know the um yeah, hackatar.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
I don't know how I would do with it.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Eh, it's fine.
Maybe, it's fine.
Maybe it's characters andfighting and death, but they
also want to make love.
So doc.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
What's our topic today?
Speaker 1 (07:52):
well, I didn't have any of this on my list, so I was
thinking that it would be coolfor us to talk about video games
that bring us nostalgia andalso give us warm, fuzzy
feelings at different points intime in our life.
But that's not what you sent me, fuzzy.
That is what I sent you.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
It's just the meaning of all the words no, no, no, I
asked Doc earlier what's thetopic for the podcast Nostalgia
in gaming Childhood games thatshaped us.
That's what I just said.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Warm, fuzzy feelings at different stages of our lives
.
Childhood is a life stage, yeah, but you worded it.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Yeah, you worded it wrong.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Nostalgia is a warm and fuzzy feeling.
People, do I need to do ascience lesson on nostalgia?
By the way, today is a reallypowerful day for that, because
you've been talking about MortalKombat all month, Marcus, and
you know what happened today.
Nope, the Johnny Cage trailerfor the next Mortal Kombat movie
(08:56):
hit the internet today.
Have you seen it?
Speaker 2 (08:59):
No, I'll watch it now though.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Let's watch it right now.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Can you stream it?
Speaker 1 (09:05):
on Squadcast.
I don't know if I can do that.
Does squad cast give us theability to do stuff?
Speaker 2 (09:13):
that's that mortal combat 2 official trailer.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Here we go yeah, just just just watch it yeah, you
won't be able to hear it no,it's fine, we can still react.
I'm watching it right now.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Marcus, deep contemplation no, I'm waiting
for you so what do we think?
Speaker 1 (09:32):
what do we think?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
wait, doritos, did you see the first one of the
reboot?
No, okay, so I did.
It was pretty good, I liked it.
I really digging that this onethey're focusing on johnny cage,
or that's the way it seems.
You know what I mean, I think,when he says, like you, big ugly
, fuck, I don't think he'sfighting shao kahn, I think it's
(09:57):
gonna be goro or something likethat.
So I think it's good, you know,I like that they're finally
putting it that Mortal Kombat isfight to the death.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
I like that yeah.
It featured all the charactersfrom Mortal Kombat 2 also.
But in Mortal Kombat 2, soniaBlade was captured by.
Shao Kahn was not a playablecharacter and Kano also was
chained up not a playablecharacter.
So it looks like they may beremixing the story a little bit,
(10:32):
but those characters are stillin the universe during Mortal
Kombat 2.
And you do get a shot of all 12characters, I believe, plus the
secret characters Jade and NoobSabot.
Sure, sure, yeah.
So Mortal Kombat 2, by the way,from Sega, genesis and arcades
(10:55):
and Super Nintendo.
That was my introduction toMortal Kombat in home.
I had played a few matches ofmortal combat, one a little bit
younger, but mortal combat 2 iswhere I really practiced a video
game yeah, uh, that's what ummelina was introduced and she's
(11:19):
my jam yeah lots
Speaker 2 (11:23):
and lots of.
I remember going to the arcadewith mortal combat 2 and my mom
would give me I can't rememberif it was five or ten bucks, and
I would go home with moneybecause I was dominate at the
arcade oh, kids would put up thequarter and I'd be like
climbing the tree and I wouldget so mad when they put it in.
When I'm like in the secondround, about about to beat the
(11:47):
enemy I was fighting, I'd lookat him be like, come on.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
They're like ha ha ha , I'm gonna beat you now and
then you whoop them down forsure yeah, I love this so that
trailer gave me a huge dose ofnostalgia and I saw it on my
phone the moment my stream ended.
This morning I just openedInstagram.
It was like bam Carl Urbanplaying Johnny Cage when they
(12:13):
cast him.
I mean, I'm a huge fan of himfrom all the way back in Lord of
the Rings and the Star Trekmovies.
He's in a Marvel movie too, forThor.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
What's Star Trek?
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Doritos.
Do you want to answer that?
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Sure, it's where he went around and made friends
with aliens.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
There's no Force.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Beat me up, Scotty.
Yeah, it reminds me of MassEffect.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
No laser swords.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Mass Effect is so much better than Star Trek.
Oh, unpopular opinion, let's go.
Mass Effect is so much betterthan Star Trek.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Oh, unpopular opinion , let's go Same concept.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah, I guess yeah you're right, it's just.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
in Mass Effect, humans are the ones late to the
show.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
That's true.
Space, the final frontier.
Well, so, when you mentionedthe title, the correct way, and
what shaped us?
My earliest memories of videogames obviously are, you know,
super mario, super mario world,f0.
But really the one that standsout to me, and I thought about
(13:25):
this long and hard, was NHLPAhockey for the Super Nintendo.
I would go to my friends'houses and that's what we would
play and it would get loud andcrazy because it's, you know,
like three or four boys justpassing the controller around
and playing it and it made mesocial when I gamed and it
(13:50):
taught me how to talk smackwhile gaming and it kind of
shaped me the way it is today,because I love the social aspect
of gaming, like I thrive onthat.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yes, you do yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
And you know, that's why I think part of the elden
ring journey was so hard for me,because I had to break that
barrier down to realize it'sokay to play a game alone yeah
and for a long time I had tostream it, which you know it
worked, but it didn't.
You know what I'm saying.
(14:22):
Yeah, I was kind of like on theouts, but I still and I think
maybe that's why I like Fortniteand I like MMOs because of that
social aspect Even if you'renot talking to somebody, you're
playing with people.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Yeah, going back to those early nostalgia days.
You're talking about being asocial gamer and I instantly
started thinking about mortalcombat and nba jam, right, those
were like the things thatbrought people over to visit me
on the weekends or after churchand stuff, and we play some
games, go out in the driveway,shoot hoops, then come back in
and play some games, go out inthe driveway, shoot hoops, then
(15:03):
come back in and play some games, and that's like how the day
went.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Maybe watch the Mortal Kombat movie if it's
after 1995, right, the you'reboth coming from a standpoint of
what was your first consolethough the NES and the original
Sega my first console was theNES, and I think I played it for
the first time around 1990.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
My first console was the nes, and I think I played it
for the first time around 1990my first was officially, my
first console was a game boy,but really the first like
console that hooked up to a tvwas the sega genesis.
I wasn't allowed to have videogames when I was really young.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
So for me I got to go back in time to the original
Atari 64, Commodore 64, theMagnavox Odyssey 2.
That's nostalgia for me, Goingback to 8-bit Wonderlands.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
The Oregon Trail.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Oregon Trail.
Absolutely, Mr Munch.
That was an Odyssey game.
That was a Pac-Man clone, thePac-Man for the original Atari
64.
Nothing beats that sound of.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
But at the same time you it's gonna.
I don't know how to say itwithout making it sound like
you're old, but well, I'm oldtoo.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
But what I'm varying degrees of old.
You just have me beat by a lot,both of you um, the the thing
about that is I.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
I look at it generationally, like somebody
who was born in the 20s to seethe technology jump.
But somebody who startedplaying video games at the
beginning with the let's use theAtari to what it is today is
mind boggling.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
It is.
I just want to add.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Yeah, I want to add another really crazy ripple to
that is I saw a post onInstagram that I was already
aware of this, but seeing it wasmind-blowing.
Someone showed the differencebetween a PS2 game and a PS3
game and just the jump, and it'slike four and a half years
(17:30):
between these two games inparticular.
I don't remember what they were, uh, but it really doesn't
matter, because you could pickany common, well-circulated,
popular ps2 game, compare it upto the ps3 near the end of the
ps3 cycle and you're just likethere will.
There will never be atechnological jump like that,
(17:52):
ever again, because now we'rejust talking about nose, hairs
and pores, nostalgic though thethe content or the graphics.
It depends if you're asking drgamology or marcusB814, right.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Both of you.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
We are the opposite ends of this spectrum.
Yeah, so, like for me, I'vebeen sitting here thinking about
all the ways to not play MassEffect, supposedly no-transcript
(18:31):
, because then you have thatfootage and have the ability to
make videos of, like the PS oneversion of the scene and then
the PS five version of the scene, and and educate psychologists
that way so that they understandlike this story has been
building a mythologicalfollowing since 1997.
But, but I know Marcus valuesgraphics.
(18:53):
He called himself a graphicsfor on this show last week and
that's what he is so like.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
But I guess what I'm saying yes, you're right.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
I'm just playing with you, marcus, no, no.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
But when the PS1 was here or the PS2, that's what you
had.
I mean, nobody bought a PS3.
Everybody bought an Xbox 360,right?
That?
Speaker 1 (19:17):
is not true.
I had a PS3.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yes, but like you're one of like if out of 100% of
people, like 8% of people,bought a PS3, everybody else had
an Xbox 360, because it's just,it was first, and back then
people cared.
There wasn't really anecosystem to join In my opinion,
(19:41):
and you're going to, you'regoing to search it, but either
way, the point for me is, backthen that was it Right.
But then there was a game onthe PC called named Crisis.
Did you guys ever play thatgame?
Speaker 3 (20:01):
No, I've never played it I did not play Crisis.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Okay, but.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
I remember watching a lot of videos about it.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Okay.
So that was like the benchmarkof games.
If your system could play thatgame, you had the PC because it
was so demanding and it was sucha jump, and back then it was.
You know, pc was alwaysoutshining.
Excuse me, I burped consolesand now that's really.
(20:31):
You start to see the divide ingames as a console gets older
and the pc graphics go up.
But I just shared you guys alink in discord and it's a
police first person shooter game.
It's made with unreal engine 5.
Watch it.
I'm not saying it's your styleof game, but that looks real
(20:54):
Like I.
If somebody played that and itwas on a T on my TV and I'd be
like, oh, what TV show are you?
Speaker 1 (21:00):
watching?
Yeah, you're watching cops.
Or you're watching?
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Yeah, I've seen that tactical shooter, some videos of
that before.
Yeah, that's impressive.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Right I.
I had to talk about a videovery similar to this during my
last site conferencepresentation.
Somebody asked a question aboutpractical application of video
gameplay, and they asked it froma perspective of, like Dr
(21:30):
Kaufman, what do you mean?
Video games train people andmake them better at doing things
in life.
And then I had to talk abouthow the military has been doing
this for a while.
Okay, graphics have improved towhere they can do this, but
they've been trying to do thiseven with things that are only
slightly more advanced than Callof Duty for over a decade,
(21:52):
maybe even close to two, rightof duty for over a decade, maybe
even close to two, because youcan make tactical errors and get
killed in a simulation andsuffer no injuries, but your
mind is retaining the strategyof what happened to you, and so
you treat your life in thesimulation like it is your life
in life, and you become betterat situations that you've never
(22:16):
been in before in reality, butyou've been in them thousands of
times in a virtual space.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yeah, but even that police game that looks so real.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
you could have police officers train with that and
create a game that isfunctionally correct for police
procedure and have it look likethat and then get training from
that yeah, the game the gamethat we're watching is Unrecord,
(22:54):
and this is actually a game youcan wishlist on Steam, so this
is not like a police or militarytraining exercise.
This is something peopleactually will be able to play
casually for entertainment,right.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
But I guess my point of all this is that it's so real
.
And look at that compared toI'm calling that the crisis of
the future.
So far, right, yeah, look atthat compared to Final Fantasy
VII on the PS1.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Oh my gosh, like it's just little blocks.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Well, that's what I'm saying, and just the movement.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
GoldenEye.
Goldeneye on N64 would be areally good comparison here.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Sorry to interrupt you no, no, you're fine, I'm
using it as um, I'm just usingit, as you know, just the
movement of everything.
And you, well, you were talkingabout final fantasy 7, now to
then, and how the camera angleschanged and you had to move the
D-pad, how you were walking tothe adjustment of the cameras
(24:02):
kind of like Resident Evil.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Resident Evil is hard because of that.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Correct, You'll be walking.
Yes, the shoulder.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Everyone who can't see us, marcus and I are
foolishly turning our chairs in90 degree increments and staring
straight in front of us, rightlike goobers right shoulder,
left shoulder, yeah, leftshoulder but that's, but that's
what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
So this evolution, the reason why I'm a graphical
whore is because I remember whatthese games looked like back
then and still to this day, whenI load a game I say wow.
And the last game I absolutelysaid wow to is when I loaded 33
up on my computer 33 up on mycomputer.
And when that game loaded and Iput it on ultra, I said, oh my
(24:58):
God, this is unreal.
I also said that with destinyto one of the first times I
played it.
And you're, I was runningthrough this spinning tunnel and
it was all neon lights and I'mlike this can't be real, that
I'm playing this.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, graphics definitely do change the way we
experience video games.
Nostalgia is a separate thing,because it preserves the
positive energy that we have forthe things that no longer would
(25:34):
pass as that same kind ofentertainment today.
Like um, one of the things Iwas thinking about today when I
picked this topic, I rated astreamer who got to have her
twitch anniversary plus her mainpage debut on on twitch today.
She was playing kingdom heartsone and the streamer's name is
(25:56):
Sailor Nuggie and she's been asuper nice person that I'm so
happy I got to meet throughTwitch and you know, just
watching her play Kingdom Hearts1, which is a PS2 game
originally, and she's playingthe HD remix versions.
There's bonus bosses and stuff,but it's still a PS2 game being
(26:16):
played on modern hardware andduring some of the boss fights
the boss fight is not logicallyhard for a person who
understands raid boss mechanics,but because it's a PS2 game.
The difficulty of defeating theboss this one I'm talking about
is Ursula from the LittleMermaid.
The difficulty of defeating theboss this one I'm talking about
is Ursula from the LittleMermaid is like triple the
(26:37):
amount of difficulty because youhave to overcome the PS2-ness
of the fight.
Yeah, and you know she wascommenting having a really good
time with the chat and talkingabout how weirdly difficult the
fight was and I just went in thechat.
I was lurking, most of it saidto work, but I just I just let
her know like this fight isnotoriously stupid, like just
(26:57):
you got it.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
You gotta beat the ps2 part of the game so, in once
you asked me the question, Igrabbed the bag oh, what's the
bag?
We're gonna talk nostalgia, youguys ready yeah, let's go what
do we got?
Super empire strikes back, oh,back, oh, I love that game oh
wait, wait, wait, wait.
This was me.
(27:20):
World Cup 94.
Ooh Ready.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Make me feel old.
Thanks.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Castlevania, castlevania on the NES cartridge
.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
I have one of those too, and I'm working NES X -Men,
X -Men.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
I have that game on my iPhone.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Okay, pit Fighter Anybody.
I've never seen that one Wow Ihaven't seen that one forever.
Okay, here we go.
Nhl 95 for me.
Here it is, you're such ahockey fan.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Nba Jam Tournament Edition.
That was my, that was mine too.
Okay, I love it.
Super star wars I have that,yep techno super bowl three.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Uh, here it is.
This is, this is like beforemadden took over ready this is
it mortal kombat too so good, soI, when we started talking
about this mike tyson's miketyson's punch out super mario
(28:31):
world original okay dude likeokay zelda.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Link to the past I love that game too super return
of the jedi.
I mean that that one is thefirst one that I owned.
I had to go backwards and findthe other two simon's Quest,
Castlevania 2?
.
Castlevania, yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
All right, this was the game I was talking about
NHLPA Hockey 93.
It took me a long time to findthis game because I had to own
it.
I thought I had, oh here it is,excite bike, excite bike,
excite bike.
Okay, so I know I just for thepeople listening.
They couldn't really see it,but the face you both made when
(29:17):
I showed you these games waspure nostalgia.
Both of you remembered all ofthis and were like, oh my God.
And when you mentioned NBA Jamearlier, it made me remember NBA
Jam changed my mindset on gamesbecause of all the codes that
(29:39):
they had and when I could beHillary Clinton and Bill Clinton
as my team.
That was a game changer for meback then.
Yeah, and they had so many goodplayers, but that was my dream
team on NBA.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Jam.
So for me, I grew up inIllinois at this time in my life
I live there still the ChicagoBulls were tearing everybody up,
except for the two years andthen they tore everyone up again
.
And that's because MichaelJordan was on the team for those
years, right?
And that's because MichaelJordan was on the team for those
(30:15):
years, right.
He was not in NBA Jam becausehe could make more money not
being in NBA Jam than likehelping them print money.
So I would always put in thecode to add Benny the Bull as my
character and I would have topretend he's Michael Jordan.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
And so I had to use my imagination in my video games
that way.
Same thing with NBA Live 96,which was the first NBA Live
game I had.
Michael Jordan also was rostershooting guard and it had a
terrible save system that wouldlose your created players 90% of
(30:58):
the time that you booted thegame up.
So I would just create aChicago Bulls number 23 player
that had 99 for every stat atthe beginning of every play
session and add him thebeginning of every playstation
play session and adam, takeroster shooting guard off of the
(31:18):
team and put m jordan number 23and like it was that important
for me to have that character inthere.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
So I just would like build in that five minutes of
creating the character everysingle time yeah, so doritos
yeah we know you're old becauseyou mentioned the Commodore and
Atari, but what was that gamefor you that shaped you to who
(31:44):
you are?
Cause like I've played a lot ofMMOs with you and I've played a
lot of games with you, butreally like that's today, right?
Or like the last 10 years what,what was?
It before that.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
So before that and this goes into kind of my
favorite game was the originalKOTOR.
When it came out I played thatone to a fairly well, I played
it to the point where I would gointo the INI file and monkey
with the settings at that pointbecause I'd beat it every which
way, way legit.
Now it's just still time tohave fun.
(32:18):
Um, between that and you know,playing the original halo on my
computer, that was cause I meanyou guys are talking about all
these uh the uh in 64.
I didn't have that cause I wasin college at that point.
So anything that happened inthe nineties, I was in college
at that point.
So anything that happened inthe 90s, I was in school.
So I didn't.
I was poor, broke collegestudent guy.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Let me ask you a question though.
Yeah, do you remember when Halocame out?
Mm-hmm, do you remember how,like next level, those graphics
were?
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
I remember seeing it and what was that?
Was it the forge?
Where you got?
You know, was that the like themain map, the forge, I forget
what it was called and you hadlike water, you had mountains,
you had grassy plain, there weretrees, there was a bridge, and
that was.
I remember playing that going.
(33:14):
Wow, look at these graphics.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Because at the time, that was awesome.
Well, that changed the whole.
That was the next step ingraphics, the next graphical
jump in games.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Right, but that originally came out on what the
original Xbox.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
No, yes, the original Xboxbox.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Yep, that was a launch title, I'm pretty sure
that was, that, that was youknow when that was, but that
console 2004 was a ps1 came out.
Those were those set the newbenchmark for graphical upgrades
in consoles and that createdalso, then, the enduring
nostalgia for that next levelgame.
(34:02):
Right, because you're going.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
You're going from, oh , the, the n64 is the sega
genesis to to that yeah, becauseyou had the gamecube was
september 14th 2001, playstation2 is march 4th 2000 and then
november 15th 2001 is when thefirst xbox came out yeah,
(34:27):
because at that point I was onlyplaying pc games to bother with
the console I remember gettingthe first half-life.
Half-life was also a game my momhad.
We had a gateway 2000 and Ibought.
I went to circuit city it was alike a electronic store back
(34:49):
then and I bought half-life andmy computer couldn't play it.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Oh, no, nope.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
I installed it, I did all that thing and it wouldn't
even turn on.
So I brought the game back andI was like I don't understand
this.
They're like well, you openedit, we can't take it back.
And I'm like, oh man, but Idon't know, it doesn't work.
And they're like oh, you needram or computer, yeah and I said
(35:18):
and I was like okay, mom, let'sbuy another computer.
And she looked at me and shetold me to get the f in the car.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
You just threw away fifty dollars yeah my fifty
dollars was a big deal back thenwell, yeah, it's still a big
deal.
Well, no, I mean just forcontext.
My family of three ate likecheese steaks from Charlie's
like for dinner tonight.
It was like forty eight dollars.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
So but did you have it?
Speaker 1 (35:48):
delivered.
No, I picked it up, I drovethrough.
Ok, yeah, so I have a similarstory, but it's not the same
time period.
So I want to hit two differentgames here, my beginning with PC
gaming although I had likeTerminator 2, chess and stuff
(36:09):
like that on the PC, but my realfirst PC game was Warcraft 2,
tides of Darkness, and thatreally created my love for
Warcraft and strategy games, andI got that game at school.
It was part of the book orderthing where you'd get the thing
(36:30):
on the desk at the beginning ofthe month and there was a month
where my friends had this gameand I really wanted it and I
usually would be only allowed toget books.
But my parents surprised me andordered it and so when it came
at school and it was on my desk,it was like a Christmas present
(36:52):
, like I didn't know it wasgoing to be there.
So I got home, I installed it,I started playing it, it and
that really I mean it's.
It's wild with this story that Inever have played world of
warcraft, because when I was 10years old or so, warcraft 2 was
(37:12):
something I would play almostevery day.
Um and the this the type ofgame that that is um, is very
different.
It's you're looking down themap, you move your troops around
and you strategically do thebattle and you have to win the
battles and the war.
And it had magic and arrows anddragons and griffins and
wizards and you turn yourenemies into sheep.
(37:34):
It was amazing um so uh.
But later in life the game thatI bought that wouldn't work on
my laptop was Bioshock.
I was so bummed out so whenBioshock eventually came over to
PS3, I bought it immediatelybecause I didn't have an Xbox.
So Bioshock, as you all knowfrom the book I wrote, is a very
(38:00):
important franchise to me.
I went out of my way to mentionevery little connection I could
because the games are just sophilosophical, but the gameplay
is solid.
It has shooting andscience-based magic-y stuff in
it and moral dilemmas.
(38:20):
So you know, these games thatI'm talking about on this
episode today are all criticalfor me being here talking about
them on this podcast today.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
The thing is about nostalgia.
It could be seeing a picture ofa game or just talking about
something, and it just makes youso happy to remember those
moments oh yeah, that's you, youshow.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
You were showing us those cartridges and that's like
I remember getting some ofthose and putting them in the
nes and sit down as a kid oh mygosh it's not working.
Hold on, hold on, eject it.
No, no, no, you gotta.
You gotta turn the power offfirst.
Don't power off.
Reset, power off reset poweroff.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Reset up and down, up and down, up and down power.
Oh, it works, there we go thescientists inside me is cringing
.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
We all realize that that actually did nothing right
no, not at all.
I did everything, marcus islooking at me like I'm lying and
you are lying I don't careabout your science, your science
is bullshit.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Okay, when I hit reset five times and it worked,
it was because I hit reset fivetimes.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
That's the gambler's fallacy, though, like we think
our successes are because of usand we think our failures are
because the system is rigged.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
That's the bullshit, marcus, I know and I love it,
you're not taking.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
You are not taking my , my nes reset you can blow
whatever you want for thosehappy feelings, marcus, I will
never stop you I will blow untilI can't breathe.
If I could play excite bikeagain for the first time and
create my own track you couldbuy one of those retro like
that's what I have, one console,that's what I have it's called
(40:11):
an fc twin.
It plays super nintendo andnintendo I have it.
That's what that is I just hada feeling that you had it I
never owned an nes yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
So yeah, my original nes is upstairs, yeah, I just
had.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Oh my gosh, I have the perfect story to talk about
the generational divide here,but it's not the generational
divide with us, it's thegenerational divide with me and
my son.
So this past christmas, one ofthe gifts that we got him that
my wife and I thought was reallyoutside of the box and
thoughtful was, we bought himone of those things that looks
(40:47):
like a game boy color but withextra buttons on the back,
because we need back buttons nowof course and it has, like
every game for every classicconsole ever oh, I've seen those
.
That's awesome yeah, and so forme I'm like oh my gosh, this
little handheld thing has mortalkombat one, two, three, trilogy
, four.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
It has every madden game from from the super
nintendo.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
It has all the nba jams, it has all the mario games
up until, like before the, itmight even have n64, like I
don't know.
I haven't looked through thewhole catalog.
He didn't care, and the reasonis nintendo has their own apps
on the switch so he has accessto the retro games that he wants
(41:29):
, with save states and stuff, sohe can very easily beat them
and not suffer like I did as aneight-year-old playing from the
beginning every single time.
And then also he looked at itlike it was this like trashy
side of the street vendor thingthat we bought, that's like an
unofficial, unlicensed productand he has no nostalgia for any
(41:53):
of the games.
So for him, playing the gamesthat way has no value, and
actually we've been dealing withthis for a couple of weeks on
our show.
Which is why I wanted to talkabout this on some subconscious
level is I'm trying so hard togive mass effect a chance.
(42:14):
I really am mar, but there's nonostalgia for me.
So this amazing remake that'smuch better than the original is
just a new game to me and I'mnot getting over that hurdle yet
because of Expedition 33.
But you know like someday I'llget there.
(42:35):
It's just the nostalgia hitsevery little thing we've been
talking about for four or fiveepisodes.
So this is like.
This has the potential forbeing our like infinity war
episode, where all the all thecivil war and all of the all the
other little marvel storieslike well, now we're here, we're
(42:56):
talking about the topic thatbrings all the topics together.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
The thing I'm going to tell you is that you can't be
forced to like a game.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
I've tried so hard and I'm going to bring it back
to my first PC.
I'm going to bring it back tomy first PC, so back years and
years ago, when the Star Wars,the Old Republic came out with
their first trailer for the game, and it was CGI.
It was so good and I was like,oh my God, I think the first one
(43:34):
was the Korriban one, right?
Speaker 3 (43:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
You know what I mean.
And then you saw all the sysships on korriban one, right,
yeah, where they had that youknow what I mean.
And then you saw all the sysships on korriban and I was like
, oh my god, I need this.
And it says only on pc or onlyon windows.
I can't remember what it saidback then and I said I remember
my friends, you know, I I don'tremember his real name, we just
just played together.
His name was Dr Doom, his Xboxname, and that's you know what I
(44:01):
mean.
Bam the Mighty and Andrew theGoat.
You know what I mean.
Those were their names, but Idon't remember.
Well, one of them's name isAndrew, but I don't remember the
other dude's name.
Anyways, so we would hang outand that would be our Friday or
Saturday night, and we wouldjust hang out and play video
games together at each other'shouse.
(44:22):
Because I didn't have a pc andso I remember I bought a.
They had all the scraps.
All I had to do was buy a videocard and it was old, like amd
processor, like this thing wasthrown together, and I remember
my first video card was a gtx260, and that's a long time ago,
(44:47):
right, and I remember buildingthe computer and it turning on
and it says what do you want toname your computer?
And the only thing the only noand the
only thing I could think aboutis it was like a Frankenstein
computer, right, and so I namedit the Franken-slut 2000.
(45:07):
And because of my original?
It was because of my originalXbox 360 name.
My original Xbox 360 name wasDirty Muff 83.
And I know I tried to friendyou with that.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
I was like Marcus.
What is this?
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
So either way, I did that.
And then all of thatpreparation to be able to play
Star Wars, the old Republic inthe first day one.
I had it collector's editionloaded it up.
It looked like I was playing acartoon.
I played the game Like youexplore to find things.
(45:55):
I, my first character was atrooper and I just searched
every corner of the map.
Uh, what's the name of thatplanet?
oh my god or mental or mental,and after about like eight hours
I was like this is stupid,there's no extra stuff here,
because I never played an mmobefore and I didn't understand
(46:16):
it.
And then I just went back toplaying call of duty, black ops
on the computer.
Oh so sad, nope.
But then, all those years later, I had a daughter and I
something about the malgus, mylittle pony, online.
Yeah, oh yeah my little ponyonline.
I remember that came.
That was fun, um, but yeah,nostalgia, wow, this cut.
(46:40):
This was a really goodconversation because the all of
the awesome gaming experiencesI've had in my life have flooded
through my head throughout thisconversation yeah, I mean, do
you remember the episode ofworking class nerds where we had
our whole raid team on it?
Speaker 1 (46:57):
yep, I was thinking about that just now because I
had a moment that was verysimilar to what you just did,
where we just went through theentire history of what it was
like to play that game togetherand I knew, the whole time that
game was out, that I'm gonnaspend the next four years years
(47:18):
of my PhD program trying toconvince my professors to let me
do player types in this game.
Because the day that I createdmy character is also the day
that I was thinking about thisresearch thing and I looked up
(47:38):
the Myers-Briggs type indicatorwith Star Wars characters and I
am an INTJ in that system andEmperor Palpatine was the INTJ
on that chart and my characterthat I created that I felt would
be the best reflection of mewas a Sith sorcerer.
And as soon as I made thatconnection, like first time, I
(48:02):
logged off.
So it's evening time.
I played the game for like fiveor six hours, first time ever
sitting down to play it, and I'mjust thinking about this.
I'm like I wonder how manypeople look at this chart and
their personality says Han Solo.
People look at this chart andtheir personality says Han Solo
and they created a smuggler orhow you know.
(48:23):
So on and so forth.
You know Luke Skywalker andthey created Jedi Knight, and
that idea I told my professor.
It was like in between terms.
So whenever spring term startedand he just looked at me and I
remember he was so interested inthat, he said to me daniel, you
(48:45):
are gonna need to do a lot ofwork to convince other
professors that this is academic, but I think it's amazing, so
don't let go of it.
And so that's kind of like.
All these things are the rootsof why dr gameology exists and
(49:06):
why the gaming persona exists,and without star wars, the old
republic, I wouldn't know eitherof you yeah such a dark
timeline no, no marcus, we gottado a dark timeline episode.
Do you know I'm talking about?
No, these are the best episodesin the gaming persona history.
(49:30):
It's where, um jenny and I didit twice, where we would imagine
our lives without a criticalmoment from video games and just
like make it the most tragicconversation possible to show
people that video games create abetter version of our lives
that's fine we gotta do it nextweek okay all right, great, I'm
(49:52):
excited, but not too excitedbecause we gotta make the
timeline dark.
So is nostalgia part of yourgaming for the next week or so,
marcus?
Speaker 2 (50:04):
I don't know, but continue the journey.
Welcome to the Gaming Persona podcast.
This is the show that exploreswho we become when we play games
, whether you're saving kingdoms, leading epic raids or just
vibing in cozy indie worlds.
Join me, dr Gamology and mygood friend Marcus as we search
for all the ways gaming andpersonal growth collide.
Grab your controllers and let'scontinue the journey Now.
(00:21):
Continue the journey now.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
You know, in other words in other worlds.
I finished my second thousandpage book and I got book three
right here.
This thing, is ginormous.
It is ginormous this one.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
I don't know how many pages it is.
It the size of the book, marcus.
It's the motion of the pageturn uh 1,233 pages that's a lot
.
They they needed an editor.
I'm just telling you right now,like I was gonna do that and dr
anth Bean told me what the hellDaniel.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
But it's you know, it's a fantasy book.
I've never read fantasy beforeever, and I saw a YouTube video
talking about this Stormlightseries by Brandon Sanderson.
All I've ever read really isstar wars books, because that's
really the only compelling book.
There's like the gamer'sjourney, but that's like you
(01:31):
know, that's like uh one or twoand done.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Yeah, that's me yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
So we don't like to talk about that.
And I've read a bunch of, likewarhammer books.
But the warhammer books are sodetailed and I fell into this
series and there's five books sofar and it's really really good
and I've kind of hooked on it.
But what's nice is I've beenworking alone so much that I'll,
at my 30 minute lunch I'll read, you know, five pages in 30
(01:59):
minutes because I I'm dyslexic,you know sounds right.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
I have a real curveball to throw in this
conversation, but you have topromise to only brief me a
reasonable amount if I trust youwith this information.
Oh boy, so I don't know ifeither of you know this, but the
field of counseling.
No, I Based on the last 20episodes of our show.
(02:27):
Well done, marcus, but no,that's not where we were going.
Um, the field of counseling isincredibly female dominated and,
if we go with genderstereotypes, there is a category
of books that cater to femaleaudiences that I end up having
lots of conversations about, butI've never read any of them.
So during one of my internshipcourses, one of the students
(02:50):
asked if I had ever read acertain book, and I knew what
they were talking about beforethey even finished the sentence,
because that exact week I hadstarted reading my first ever
Romantasy book.
And so I'm in the middle ofIron Flame, which is the
Empyrean saga.
It's like dragons and romanceand like going to college, like
(03:13):
Hogwarts, learning how to be adragon rider killing machine,
the Empyrean saga.
So the first book is calledFourth Wing.
It's by Rebecca Yaros and I'mreally enjoying it.
It's my Fourth Wing it's byRebecca Yaros and I'm really
enjoying it.
It's my also first step into adifferent style of book and
there are sexy scenes and stuff.
(03:33):
But as far as the type ofreading it kind of reminds me of
a young adult version of Gameof Thrones.
But because the structure ofthe book is going to school to
learn how to be a militarykilling machine that rides
dragons kind of has a HogwartsyHarry Potter for mature
audiences kind of vibe, I likeit.
I'm turning a new leaf.
(03:54):
Also, something really coolhappened that was on none of our
bingo cards this morning and Iknow you both know about it
because I told Doritos first andthen I told both of you at the
same time immediately after.
But I am now officially aneducation game, video game
(04:15):
character, did you?
Did you know that, marcus?
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Yes, yeah, yes yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
First off so this company that um kind bridge is
using to help gamify some of theelements of my gambling
counselor training decided toturn one of the quizzes for my
modules into an interactive gamewhere you walk as a little like
28 bit version of me through acasino and you have to find the
(04:46):
right doors to walk through inorder to navigate it
successfully, and the doors arethe answer options for the
questions that are up at the topof the screen and they're like
yeah, that's you.
That's based on your headshot,so it's the people who do the
training are going to play thequiz game as a digital version
(05:09):
of me I can't find this book.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
I'm frustrated what happened?
Speaker 3 (05:15):
what happens if you play?
Speaker 1 (05:16):
they pick the wrong door we actually talked about
that today and I think there'sgoing to be a different set of
like a couple sets of failureanimations.
One of the things that happenswhen a gambler has a problem is
they can sign a legal contractthat basically is a trespass
order on the casino, so they'relegally not allowed to be there.
And so if you go there anywaybecause your gambling addiction
(05:41):
convinces you it's going to beokay, and they catch you,
security can handcuff you andwalk you out, or they can call
the police and have you go tothe station.
Uh, so we might have a securityguard come out of the door and
drag me down the hallway if youget the question wrong.
That's something we talkedabout today wow.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Well, you know, as you check things off in your box
of things you're doing, you cannow say you're a video game
character yeah you're not onethat I created right, not one
that I created right, you're anaward-winning author, you, uh
(06:26):
well, oh, you are a part of theun I'm not part of the un I'm on
speed dial for the un, though.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
That is true.
I'm doing a webinar for themnext week oh boy yeah, I just
yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I can't find your book Really.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
No Fourth Wing, because he was trying to look
for the series, not the book.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Oh I was looking.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Oh, I'm sorry, I found Fourth Wing but I didn't
find the series.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah, actually the series.
You only know what it's calledif you look on the copyright
page yes, rebecca yaros, you'rereading the fourth wing fly or
die yeah, I finished that one.
I'm on the second one, which iscalled iron flame I walk by
these books in um parson novel Iby these books in um.
(07:24):
Parson Novel.
I mean, these books aremainstream.
I've seen them at Target.
They're not hard to find Lotsof.
I mean, the only the onlyseries that is on the shelves
more than them is, uh, court ofThorn and Roses.
You know the um yeah, hackatar.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
I don't know how I would do with it.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Eh, it's fine.
Maybe, it's fine.
Maybe it's characters andfighting and death, but they
also want to make love.
So doc.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
What's our topic today?
Speaker 1 (07:52):
well, I didn't have any of this on my list, so I was
thinking that it would be coolfor us to talk about video games
that bring us nostalgia andalso give us warm, fuzzy
feelings at different points intime in our life.
But that's not what you sent me, fuzzy.
That is what I sent you.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
It's just the meaning of all the words no, no, no, I
asked Doc earlier what's thetopic for the podcast Nostalgia
in gaming Childhood games thatshaped us.
That's what I just said.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Warm, fuzzy feelings at different stages of our lives
.
Childhood is a life stage, yeah, but you worded it.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Yeah, you worded it wrong.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Nostalgia is a warm and fuzzy feeling.
People, do I need to do ascience lesson on nostalgia?
By the way, today is a reallypowerful day for that, because
you've been talking about MortalKombat all month, Marcus, and
you know what happened today.
Nope, the Johnny Cage trailerfor the next Mortal Kombat movie
(08:56):
hit the internet today.
Have you seen it?
Speaker 2 (08:59):
No, I'll watch it now though.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Let's watch it right now.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Can you stream it?
Speaker 1 (09:05):
on Squadcast.
I don't know if I can do that.
Does squad cast give us theability to do stuff?
Speaker 2 (09:13):
that's that mortal combat 2 official trailer.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Here we go yeah, just just just watch it yeah, you
won't be able to hear it no,it's fine, we can still react.
I'm watching it right now.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Marcus, deep contemplation no, I'm waiting
for you so what do we think?
Speaker 1 (09:32):
what do we think?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
wait, doritos, did you see the first one of the
reboot?
No, okay, so I did.
It was pretty good, I liked it.
I really digging that this onethey're focusing on johnny cage,
or that's the way it seems.
You know what I mean, I think,when he says, like you, big ugly
, fuck, I don't think he'sfighting shao kahn, I think it's
(09:57):
gonna be goro or something likethat.
So I think it's good, you know,I like that they're finally
putting it that Mortal Kombat isfight to the death.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
I like that yeah.
It featured all the charactersfrom Mortal Kombat 2 also.
But in Mortal Kombat 2, soniaBlade was captured by.
Shao Kahn was not a playablecharacter and Kano also was
chained up not a playablecharacter.
So it looks like they may beremixing the story a little bit,
(10:32):
but those characters are stillin the universe during Mortal
Kombat 2.
And you do get a shot of all 12characters, I believe, plus the
secret characters Jade and NoobSabot.
Sure, sure, yeah.
So Mortal Kombat 2, by the way,from Sega, genesis and arcades
(10:55):
and Super Nintendo.
That was my introduction toMortal Kombat in home.
I had played a few matches ofmortal combat, one a little bit
younger, but mortal combat 2 iswhere I really practiced a video
game yeah, uh, that's what ummelina was introduced and she's
(11:19):
my jam yeah lots
Speaker 2 (11:23):
and lots of.
I remember going to the arcadewith mortal combat 2 and my mom
would give me I can't rememberif it was five or ten bucks, and
I would go home with moneybecause I was dominate at the
arcade oh, kids would put up thequarter and I'd be like
climbing the tree and I wouldget so mad when they put it in.
When I'm like in the secondround, about about to beat the
(11:47):
enemy I was fighting, I'd lookat him be like, come on.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
They're like ha ha ha , I'm gonna beat you now and
then you whoop them down forsure yeah, I love this so that
trailer gave me a huge dose ofnostalgia and I saw it on my
phone the moment my stream ended.
This morning I just openedInstagram.
It was like bam Carl Urbanplaying Johnny Cage when they
(12:13):
cast him.
I mean, I'm a huge fan of himfrom all the way back in Lord of
the Rings and the Star Trekmovies.
He's in a Marvel movie too, forThor.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
What's Star Trek?
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Doritos.
Do you want to answer that?
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Sure, it's where he went around and made friends
with aliens.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
There's no Force.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Beat me up, Scotty.
Yeah, it reminds me of MassEffect.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
No laser swords.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Mass Effect is so much better than Star Trek.
Oh, unpopular opinion, let's go.
Mass Effect is so much betterthan Star Trek.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Oh, unpopular opinion , let's go Same concept.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah, I guess yeah you're right, it's just.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
in Mass Effect, humans are the ones late to the
show.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
That's true.
Space, the final frontier.
Well, so, when you mentionedthe title, the correct way, and
what shaped us?
My earliest memories of videogames obviously are, you know,
super mario, super mario world,f0.
But really the one that standsout to me, and I thought about
(13:25):
this long and hard, was NHLPAhockey for the Super Nintendo.
I would go to my friends'houses and that's what we would
play and it would get loud andcrazy because it's, you know,
like three or four boys justpassing the controller around
and playing it and it made mesocial when I gamed and it
(13:50):
taught me how to talk smackwhile gaming and it kind of
shaped me the way it is today,because I love the social aspect
of gaming, like I thrive onthat.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yes, you do yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
And you know, that's why I think part of the elden
ring journey was so hard for me,because I had to break that
barrier down to realize it'sokay to play a game alone yeah
and for a long time I had tostream it, which you know it
worked, but it didn't.
You know what I'm saying.
(14:22):
Yeah, I was kind of like on theouts, but I still and I think
maybe that's why I like Fortniteand I like MMOs because of that
social aspect Even if you'renot talking to somebody, you're
playing with people.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Yeah, going back to those early nostalgia days.
You're talking about being asocial gamer and I instantly
started thinking about mortalcombat and nba jam, right, those
were like the things thatbrought people over to visit me
on the weekends or after churchand stuff, and we play some
games, go out in the driveway,shoot hoops, then come back in
and play some games, go out inthe driveway, shoot hoops, then
(15:03):
come back in and play some games, and that's like how the day
went.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Maybe watch the Mortal Kombat movie if it's
after 1995, right, the you'reboth coming from a standpoint of
what was your first consolethough the NES and the original
Sega my first console was theNES, and I think I played it for
the first time around 1990.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
My first console was the nes, and I think I played it
for the first time around 1990my first was officially, my
first console was a game boy,but really the first like
console that hooked up to a tvwas the sega genesis.
I wasn't allowed to have videogames when I was really young.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
So for me I got to go back in time to the original
Atari 64, Commodore 64, theMagnavox Odyssey 2.
That's nostalgia for me, Goingback to 8-bit Wonderlands.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
The Oregon Trail.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Oregon Trail.
Absolutely, Mr Munch.
That was an Odyssey game.
That was a Pac-Man clone, thePac-Man for the original Atari
64.
Nothing beats that sound of.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
But at the same time you it's gonna.
I don't know how to say itwithout making it sound like
you're old, but well, I'm oldtoo.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
But what I'm varying degrees of old.
You just have me beat by a lot,both of you um, the the thing
about that is I.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
I look at it generationally, like somebody
who was born in the 20s to seethe technology jump.
But somebody who startedplaying video games at the
beginning with the let's use theAtari to what it is today is
mind boggling.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
It is.
I just want to add.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Yeah, I want to add another really crazy ripple to
that is I saw a post onInstagram that I was already
aware of this, but seeing it wasmind-blowing.
Someone showed the differencebetween a PS2 game and a PS3
game and just the jump, and it'slike four and a half years
(17:30):
between these two games inparticular.
I don't remember what they were, uh, but it really doesn't
matter, because you could pickany common, well-circulated,
popular ps2 game, compare it upto the ps3 near the end of the
ps3 cycle and you're just likethere will.
There will never be atechnological jump like that,
(17:52):
ever again, because now we'rejust talking about nose, hairs
and pores, nostalgic though thethe content or the graphics.
It depends if you're asking drgamology or marcusB814, right.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Both of you.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
We are the opposite ends of this spectrum.
Yeah, so, like for me, I'vebeen sitting here thinking about
all the ways to not play MassEffect, supposedly no-transcript
(18:31):
, because then you have thatfootage and have the ability to
make videos of, like the PS oneversion of the scene and then
the PS five version of the scene, and and educate psychologists
that way so that they understandlike this story has been
building a mythologicalfollowing since 1997.
But, but I know Marcus valuesgraphics.
(18:53):
He called himself a graphicsfor on this show last week and
that's what he is so like.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
But I guess what I'm saying yes, you're right.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
I'm just playing with you, marcus, no, no.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
But when the PS1 was here or the PS2, that's what you
had.
I mean, nobody bought a PS3.
Everybody bought an Xbox 360,right?
That?
Speaker 1 (19:17):
is not true.
I had a PS3.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yes, but like you're one of like if out of 100% of
people, like 8% of people,bought a PS3, everybody else had
an Xbox 360, because it's just,it was first, and back then
people cared.
There wasn't really anecosystem to join In my opinion,
(19:41):
and you're going to, you'regoing to search it, but either
way, the point for me is, backthen that was it Right.
But then there was a game onthe PC called named Crisis.
Did you guys ever play thatgame?
Speaker 3 (20:01):
No, I've never played it I did not play Crisis.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Okay, but.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
I remember watching a lot of videos about it.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Okay.
So that was like the benchmarkof games.
If your system could play thatgame, you had the PC because it
was so demanding and it was sucha jump, and back then it was.
You know, pc was alwaysoutshining.
Excuse me, I burped consolesand now that's really.
(20:31):
You start to see the divide ingames as a console gets older
and the pc graphics go up.
But I just shared you guys alink in discord and it's a
police first person shooter game.
It's made with unreal engine 5.
Watch it.
I'm not saying it's your styleof game, but that looks real
(20:54):
Like I.
If somebody played that and itwas on a T on my TV and I'd be
like, oh, what TV show are you?
Speaker 1 (21:00):
watching?
Yeah, you're watching cops.
Or you're watching?
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Yeah, I've seen that tactical shooter, some videos of
that before.
Yeah, that's impressive.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Right I.
I had to talk about a videovery similar to this during my
last site conferencepresentation.
Somebody asked a question aboutpractical application of video
gameplay, and they asked it froma perspective of, like Dr
(21:30):
Kaufman, what do you mean?
Video games train people andmake them better at doing things
in life.
And then I had to talk abouthow the military has been doing
this for a while.
Okay, graphics have improved towhere they can do this, but
they've been trying to do thiseven with things that are only
slightly more advanced than Callof Duty for over a decade,
(21:52):
maybe even close to two, rightof duty for over a decade, maybe
even close to two, because youcan make tactical errors and get
killed in a simulation andsuffer no injuries, but your
mind is retaining the strategyof what happened to you, and so
you treat your life in thesimulation like it is your life
in life, and you become betterat situations that you've never
(22:16):
been in before in reality, butyou've been in them thousands of
times in a virtual space.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yeah, but even that police game that looks so real.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
you could have police officers train with that and
create a game that isfunctionally correct for police
procedure and have it look likethat and then get training from
that yeah, the game the gamethat we're watching is Unrecord,
(22:54):
and this is actually a game youcan wishlist on Steam, so this
is not like a police or militarytraining exercise.
This is something peopleactually will be able to play
casually for entertainment,right.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
But I guess my point of all this is that it's so real
.
And look at that compared toI'm calling that the crisis of
the future.
So far, right, yeah, look atthat compared to Final Fantasy
VII on the PS1.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Oh my gosh, like it's just little blocks.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Well, that's what I'm saying, and just the movement.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
GoldenEye.
Goldeneye on N64 would be areally good comparison here.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Sorry to interrupt you no, no, you're fine, I'm
using it as um, I'm just usingit, as you know, just the
movement of everything.
And you, well, you were talkingabout final fantasy 7, now to
then, and how the camera angleschanged and you had to move the
D-pad, how you were walking tothe adjustment of the cameras
(24:02):
kind of like Resident Evil.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Resident Evil is hard because of that.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Correct, You'll be walking.
Yes, the shoulder.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Everyone who can't see us, marcus and I are
foolishly turning our chairs in90 degree increments and staring
straight in front of us, rightlike goobers right shoulder,
left shoulder, yeah, leftshoulder but that's, but that's
what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
So this evolution, the reason why I'm a graphical
whore is because I remember whatthese games looked like back
then and still to this day, whenI load a game I say wow.
And the last game I absolutelysaid wow to is when I loaded 33
up on my computer 33 up on mycomputer.
And when that game loaded and Iput it on ultra, I said, oh my
(24:58):
God, this is unreal.
I also said that with destinyto one of the first times I
played it.
And you're, I was runningthrough this spinning tunnel and
it was all neon lights and I'mlike this can't be real, that
I'm playing this.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, graphics definitely do change the way we
experience video games.
Nostalgia is a separate thing,because it preserves the
positive energy that we have forthe things that no longer would
(25:34):
pass as that same kind ofentertainment today.
Like um, one of the things Iwas thinking about today when I
picked this topic, I rated astreamer who got to have her
twitch anniversary plus her mainpage debut on on twitch today.
She was playing kingdom heartsone and the streamer's name is
(25:56):
Sailor Nuggie and she's been asuper nice person that I'm so
happy I got to meet throughTwitch and you know, just
watching her play Kingdom Hearts1, which is a PS2 game
originally, and she's playingthe HD remix versions.
There's bonus bosses and stuff,but it's still a PS2 game being
(26:16):
played on modern hardware andduring some of the boss fights
the boss fight is not logicallyhard for a person who
understands raid boss mechanics,but because it's a PS2 game.
The difficulty of defeating theboss this one I'm talking about
is Ursula from the LittleMermaid.
The difficulty of defeating theboss this one I'm talking about
is Ursula from the LittleMermaid is like triple the
(26:37):
amount of difficulty because youhave to overcome the PS2-ness
of the fight.
Yeah, and you know she wascommenting having a really good
time with the chat and talkingabout how weirdly difficult the
fight was and I just went in thechat.
I was lurking, most of it saidto work, but I just I just let
her know like this fight isnotoriously stupid, like just
(26:57):
you got it.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
You gotta beat the ps2 part of the game so, in once
you asked me the question, Igrabbed the bag oh, what's the
bag?
We're gonna talk nostalgia, youguys ready yeah, let's go what
do we got?
Super empire strikes back, oh,back, oh, I love that game oh
wait, wait, wait, wait.
This was me.
(27:20):
World Cup 94.
Ooh Ready.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Make me feel old.
Thanks.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Castlevania, castlevania on the NES cartridge
.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
I have one of those too, and I'm working NES X -Men,
X -Men.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
I have that game on my iPhone.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Okay, pit Fighter Anybody.
I've never seen that one Wow Ihaven't seen that one forever.
Okay, here we go.
Nhl 95 for me.
Here it is, you're such ahockey fan.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Nba Jam Tournament Edition.
That was my, that was mine too.
Okay, I love it.
Super star wars I have that,yep techno super bowl three.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Uh, here it is.
This is, this is like beforemadden took over ready this is
it mortal kombat too so good, soI, when we started talking
about this mike tyson's miketyson's punch out super mario
(28:31):
world original okay dude likeokay zelda.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Link to the past I love that game too super return
of the jedi.
I mean that that one is thefirst one that I owned.
I had to go backwards and findthe other two simon's Quest,
Castlevania 2?
.
Castlevania, yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
All right, this was the game I was talking about
NHLPA Hockey 93.
It took me a long time to findthis game because I had to own
it.
I thought I had, oh here it is,excite bike, excite bike,
excite bike.
Okay, so I know I just for thepeople listening.
They couldn't really see it,but the face you both made when
(29:17):
I showed you these games waspure nostalgia.
Both of you remembered all ofthis and were like, oh my God.
And when you mentioned NBA Jamearlier, it made me remember NBA
Jam changed my mindset on gamesbecause of all the codes that
(29:39):
they had and when I could beHillary Clinton and Bill Clinton
as my team.
That was a game changer for meback then.
Yeah, and they had so many goodplayers, but that was my dream
team on NBA.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Jam.
So for me, I grew up inIllinois at this time in my life
I live there still the ChicagoBulls were tearing everybody up,
except for the two years andthen they tore everyone up again
.
And that's because MichaelJordan was on the team for those
years, right?
And that's because MichaelJordan was on the team for those
(30:15):
years, right.
He was not in NBA Jam becausehe could make more money not
being in NBA Jam than likehelping them print money.
So I would always put in thecode to add Benny the Bull as my
character and I would have topretend he's Michael Jordan.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
And so I had to use my imagination in my video games
that way.
Same thing with NBA Live 96,which was the first NBA Live
game I had.
Michael Jordan also was rostershooting guard and it had a
terrible save system that wouldlose your created players 90% of
(30:58):
the time that you booted thegame up.
So I would just create aChicago Bulls number 23 player
that had 99 for every stat atthe beginning of every play
session and add him thebeginning of every playstation
play session and adam, takeroster shooting guard off of the
(31:18):
team and put m jordan number 23and like it was that important
for me to have that character inthere.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
So I just would like build in that five minutes of
creating the character everysingle time yeah, so doritos
yeah we know you're old becauseyou mentioned the Commodore and
Atari, but what was that gamefor you that shaped you to who
(31:44):
you are?
Cause like I've played a lot ofMMOs with you and I've played a
lot of games with you, butreally like that's today, right?
Or like the last 10 years what,what was?
It before that.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
So before that and this goes into kind of my
favorite game was the originalKOTOR.
When it came out I played thatone to a fairly well, I played
it to the point where I would gointo the INI file and monkey
with the settings at that pointbecause I'd beat it every which
way, way legit.
Now it's just still time tohave fun.
(32:18):
Um, between that and you know,playing the original halo on my
computer, that was cause I meanyou guys are talking about all
these uh the uh in 64.
I didn't have that cause I wasin college at that point.
So anything that happened inthe nineties, I was in college
at that point.
So anything that happened inthe 90s, I was in school.
So I didn't.
I was poor, broke collegestudent guy.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Let me ask you a question though.
Yeah, do you remember when Halocame out?
Mm-hmm, do you remember how,like next level, those graphics
were?
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
I remember seeing it and what was that?
Was it the forge?
Where you got?
You know, was that the like themain map, the forge, I forget
what it was called and you hadlike water, you had mountains,
you had grassy plain, there weretrees, there was a bridge, and
that was.
I remember playing that going.
(33:14):
Wow, look at these graphics.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Because at the time, that was awesome.
Well, that changed the whole.
That was the next step ingraphics, the next graphical
jump in games.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Right, but that originally came out on what the
original Xbox.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
No, yes, the original Xboxbox.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Yep, that was a launch title, I'm pretty sure
that was, that, that was youknow when that was, but that
console 2004 was a ps1 came out.
Those were those set the newbenchmark for graphical upgrades
in consoles and that createdalso, then, the enduring
nostalgia for that next levelgame.
(34:02):
Right, because you're going.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
You're going from, oh , the, the n64 is the sega
genesis to to that yeah, becauseyou had the gamecube was
september 14th 2001, playstation2 is march 4th 2000 and then
november 15th 2001 is when thefirst xbox came out yeah,
(34:27):
because at that point I was onlyplaying pc games to bother with
the console I remember gettingthe first half-life.
Half-life was also a game my momhad.
We had a gateway 2000 and Ibought.
I went to circuit city it was alike a electronic store back
(34:49):
then and I bought half-life andmy computer couldn't play it.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Oh, no, nope.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
I installed it, I did all that thing and it wouldn't
even turn on.
So I brought the game back andI was like I don't understand
this.
They're like well, you openedit, we can't take it back.
And I'm like, oh man, but Idon't know, it doesn't work.
And they're like oh, you needram or computer, yeah and I said
(35:18):
and I was like okay, mom, let'sbuy another computer.
And she looked at me and shetold me to get the f in the car.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
You just threw away fifty dollars yeah my fifty
dollars was a big deal back thenwell, yeah, it's still a big
deal.
Well, no, I mean just forcontext.
My family of three ate likecheese steaks from Charlie's
like for dinner tonight.
It was like forty eight dollars.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
So but did you have it?
Speaker 1 (35:48):
delivered.
No, I picked it up, I drovethrough.
Ok, yeah, so I have a similarstory, but it's not the same
time period.
So I want to hit two differentgames here, my beginning with PC
gaming although I had likeTerminator 2, chess and stuff
(36:09):
like that on the PC, but my realfirst PC game was Warcraft 2,
tides of Darkness, and thatreally created my love for
Warcraft and strategy games, andI got that game at school.
It was part of the book orderthing where you'd get the thing
(36:30):
on the desk at the beginning ofthe month and there was a month
where my friends had this gameand I really wanted it and I
usually would be only allowed toget books.
But my parents surprised me andordered it and so when it came
at school and it was on my desk,it was like a Christmas present
(36:52):
, like I didn't know it wasgoing to be there.
So I got home, I installed it,I started playing it, it and
that really I mean it's.
It's wild with this story that Inever have played world of
warcraft, because when I was 10years old or so, warcraft 2 was
(37:12):
something I would play almostevery day.
Um and the this the type ofgame that that is um, is very
different.
It's you're looking down themap, you move your troops around
and you strategically do thebattle and you have to win the
battles and the war.
And it had magic and arrows anddragons and griffins and
wizards and you turn yourenemies into sheep.
(37:34):
It was amazing um so uh.
But later in life the game thatI bought that wouldn't work on
my laptop was Bioshock.
I was so bummed out so whenBioshock eventually came over to
PS3, I bought it immediatelybecause I didn't have an Xbox.
So Bioshock, as you all knowfrom the book I wrote, is a very
(38:00):
important franchise to me.
I went out of my way to mentionevery little connection I could
because the games are just sophilosophical, but the gameplay
is solid.
It has shooting andscience-based magic-y stuff in
it and moral dilemmas.
(38:20):
So you know, these games thatI'm talking about on this
episode today are all criticalfor me being here talking about
them on this podcast today.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
The thing is about nostalgia.
It could be seeing a picture ofa game or just talking about
something, and it just makes youso happy to remember those
moments oh yeah, that's you, youshow.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
You were showing us those cartridges and that's like
I remember getting some ofthose and putting them in the
nes and sit down as a kid oh mygosh it's not working.
Hold on, hold on, eject it.
No, no, no, you gotta.
You gotta turn the power offfirst.
Don't power off.
Reset, power off reset poweroff.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Reset up and down, up and down, up and down power.
Oh, it works, there we go thescientists inside me is cringing
.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
We all realize that that actually did nothing right
no, not at all.
I did everything, marcus islooking at me like I'm lying and
you are lying I don't careabout your science, your science
is bullshit.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Okay, when I hit reset five times and it worked,
it was because I hit reset fivetimes.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
That's the gambler's fallacy, though, like we think
our successes are because of usand we think our failures are
because the system is rigged.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
That's the bullshit, marcus, I know and I love it,
you're not taking.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
You are not taking my , my nes reset you can blow
whatever you want for thosehappy feelings, marcus, I will
never stop you I will blow untilI can't breathe.
If I could play excite bikeagain for the first time and
create my own track you couldbuy one of those retro like
that's what I have, one console,that's what I have it's called
(40:11):
an fc twin.
It plays super nintendo andnintendo I have it.
That's what that is I just hada feeling that you had it I
never owned an nes yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
So yeah, my original nes is upstairs, yeah, I just
had.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Oh my gosh, I have the perfect story to talk about
the generational divide here,but it's not the generational
divide with us, it's thegenerational divide with me and
my son.
So this past christmas, one ofthe gifts that we got him that
my wife and I thought was reallyoutside of the box and
thoughtful was, we bought himone of those things that looks
(40:47):
like a game boy color but withextra buttons on the back,
because we need back buttons nowof course and it has, like
every game for every classicconsole ever oh, I've seen those
.
That's awesome yeah, and so forme I'm like oh my gosh, this
little handheld thing has mortalkombat one, two, three, trilogy
, four.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
It has every madden game from from the super
nintendo.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
It has all the nba jams, it has all the mario games
up until, like before the, itmight even have n64, like I
don't know.
I haven't looked through thewhole catalog.
He didn't care, and the reasonis nintendo has their own apps
on the switch so he has accessto the retro games that he wants
(41:29):
, with save states and stuff, sohe can very easily beat them
and not suffer like I did as aneight-year-old playing from the
beginning every single time.
And then also he looked at itlike it was this like trashy
side of the street vendor thingthat we bought, that's like an
unofficial, unlicensed productand he has no nostalgia for any
(41:53):
of the games.
So for him, playing the gamesthat way has no value, and
actually we've been dealing withthis for a couple of weeks on
our show.
Which is why I wanted to talkabout this on some subconscious
level is I'm trying so hard togive mass effect a chance.
(42:14):
I really am mar, but there's nonostalgia for me.
So this amazing remake that'smuch better than the original is
just a new game to me and I'mnot getting over that hurdle yet
because of Expedition 33.
But you know like someday I'llget there.
(42:35):
It's just the nostalgia hitsevery little thing we've been
talking about for four or fiveepisodes.
So this is like.
This has the potential forbeing our like infinity war
episode, where all the all thecivil war and all of the all the
other little marvel storieslike well, now we're here, we're
(42:56):
talking about the topic thatbrings all the topics together.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
The thing I'm going to tell you is that you can't be
forced to like a game.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
I've tried so hard and I'm going to bring it back
to my first PC.
I'm going to bring it back tomy first PC, so back years and
years ago, when the Star Wars,the Old Republic came out with
their first trailer for the game, and it was CGI.
It was so good and I was like,oh my God, I think the first one
(43:34):
was the Korriban one, right?
Speaker 3 (43:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
You know what I mean.
And then you saw all the sysships on korriban one, right,
yeah, where they had that youknow what I mean.
And then you saw all the sysships on korriban and I was like
, oh my god, I need this.
And it says only on pc or onlyon windows.
I can't remember what it saidback then and I said I remember
my friends, you know, I I don'tremember his real name, we just
just played together.
His name was Dr Doom, his Xboxname, and that's you know what I
(44:01):
mean.
Bam the Mighty and Andrew theGoat.
You know what I mean.
Those were their names, but Idon't remember.
Well, one of them's name isAndrew, but I don't remember the
other dude's name.
Anyways, so we would hang outand that would be our Friday or
Saturday night, and we wouldjust hang out and play video
games together at each other'shouse.
(44:22):
Because I didn't have a pc andso I remember I bought a.
They had all the scraps.
All I had to do was buy a videocard and it was old, like amd
processor, like this thing wasthrown together, and I remember
my first video card was a gtx260, and that's a long time ago,
(44:47):
right, and I remember buildingthe computer and it turning on
and it says what do you want toname your computer?
And the only thing the only noand the
only thing I could think aboutis it was like a Frankenstein
computer, right, and so I namedit the Franken-slut 2000.
(45:07):
And because of my original?
It was because of my originalXbox 360 name.
My original Xbox 360 name wasDirty Muff 83.
And I know I tried to friendyou with that.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
I was like Marcus.
What is this?
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
So either way, I did that.
And then all of thatpreparation to be able to play
Star Wars, the old Republic inthe first day one.
I had it collector's editionloaded it up.
It looked like I was playing acartoon.
I played the game Like youexplore to find things.
(45:55):
I, my first character was atrooper and I just searched
every corner of the map.
Uh, what's the name of thatplanet?
oh my god or mental or mental,and after about like eight hours
I was like this is stupid,there's no extra stuff here,
because I never played an mmobefore and I didn't understand
(46:16):
it.
And then I just went back toplaying call of duty, black ops
on the computer.
Oh so sad, nope.
But then, all those years later, I had a daughter and I
something about the malgus, mylittle pony, online.
Yeah, oh yeah my little ponyonline.
I remember that came.
That was fun, um, but yeah,nostalgia, wow, this cut.
(46:40):
This was a really goodconversation because the all of
the awesome gaming experiencesI've had in my life have flooded
through my head throughout thisconversation yeah, I mean, do
you remember the episode ofworking class nerds where we had
our whole raid team on it?
Speaker 1 (46:57):
yep, I was thinking about that just now because I
had a moment that was verysimilar to what you just did,
where we just went through theentire history of what it was
like to play that game togetherand I knew, the whole time that
game was out, that I'm gonnaspend the next four years years
(47:18):
of my PhD program trying toconvince my professors to let me
do player types in this game.
Because the day that I createdmy character is also the day
that I was thinking about thisresearch thing and I looked up
(47:38):
the Myers-Briggs type indicatorwith Star Wars characters and I
am an INTJ in that system andEmperor Palpatine was the INTJ
on that chart and my characterthat I created that I felt would
be the best reflection of mewas a Sith sorcerer.
And as soon as I made thatconnection, like first time, I
(48:02):
logged off.
So it's evening time.
I played the game for like fiveor six hours, first time ever
sitting down to play it, and I'mjust thinking about this.
I'm like I wonder how manypeople look at this chart and
their personality says Han Solo.
People look at this chart andtheir personality says Han Solo
and they created a smuggler orhow you know.
(48:23):
So on and so forth.
You know Luke Skywalker andthey created Jedi Knight, and
that idea I told my professor.
It was like in between terms.
So whenever spring term startedand he just looked at me and I
remember he was so interested inthat, he said to me daniel, you
(48:45):
are gonna need to do a lot ofwork to convince other
professors that this is academic, but I think it's amazing, so
don't let go of it.
And so that's kind of like.
All these things are the rootsof why dr gameology exists and
(49:06):
why the gaming persona exists,and without star wars, the old
republic, I wouldn't know eitherof you yeah such a dark
timeline no, no marcus, we gottado a dark timeline episode.
Do you know I'm talking about?
No, these are the best episodesin the gaming persona history.
(49:30):
It's where, um jenny and I didit twice, where we would imagine
our lives without a criticalmoment from video games and just
like make it the most tragicconversation possible to show
people that video games create abetter version of our lives
that's fine we gotta do it nextweek okay all right, great, I'm
(49:52):
excited, but not too excitedbecause we gotta make the
timeline dark.
So is nostalgia part of yourgaming for the next week or so,
marcus?
Speaker 2 (50:04):
I don't know, but continue the journey.
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