June 10, 2024 • 41 mins
How do video game adaptations shape our identities and serve as modern-day myths? Join Dr. Gameology and Jenny LeBron on the Gaming Persona Podcast as we unravel the impact of gaming on who we become. This episode kicks off with updates from our recent gaming escapades. Jenny dives deep into her thrilling adventures with "Legends of Runeterra" and her newfound obsession with the "A Court of Thorns and Roses" book series. Meanwhile, I’m bubbling over with excitement about completing "Final Fantasy VII Rebirth" and the satisfaction of hitting my in-game milestones. We also touch on the much-anticipated Fallout TV show and the juggling act of balancing our gaming lives with everyday responsibilities.
Shifting gears, we explore the burgeoning trend of video game adaptations gracing our screens, turning beloved games into shared cultural stories. From The Last of Us to the Mario movie, and Halo, we discuss how these adaptations become the modern-day mythology that connects diverse audiences. Jenny shares her personal experience with the Fallout TV show and delves into the show's metaphor of leaving the vault as a powerful symbol for life's pivotal transitions. This segment offers a deeper reflection on the bravery required to chase our goals and the inevitable challenges we encounter along the way.
In our final segment, we tackle the captivating topic of moral decision-making in video games. Comparing the ambiguous choices in Fallout's morality system to the clear-cut paths in Star Wars: The Old Republic, we engage in a lively debate about which character from the Fallout TV show mirrors our own moral play styles. Lucy, Maximus, or the ghoul—which one resonates with you? We also highlight how these TV adaptations bring together gamers and non-gamers alike, creating a shared space for bonding over structured storytelling and rich lore. Tune in as we celebrate our gamer identities and look forward to the future of gaming and TV crossovers, hinting at the endless possibilities they hold.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Welcome to the Gaming Persona Podcast.
This is the show that exploreswho we become when we play games
.
I'm your host, Dr Gameologyfrom YouTube and online
classrooms across the country,and I'm joined by one of my best
friends from my gaming journey,Jenny LeBron.
Jenny, how are you doing thisweek?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I'm doing fantastic and I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I am glad to hear that I've been looking forward
to this conversation all week,plus some time, and we got here
here.
So, before we get started,where can our listeners find us?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
you can find my photography page on instagram at
jlebron photography or jlebronphotographycom if you're curious
about what nerdy person'sphotos look like and I am at dr
gamology, on twitch, youtubethreads, facebook, instagram,
all the social apps.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
course, you can find me on this show every week.
The Gaming Persona can be foundon Apple Podcasts, spotify,
google YouTube and anywhere elsepodcasts can be found.
If you're enjoying our contentand we really mean this, is very
important for people to be ableto find our show make sure to
leave us a five-star review.
Type up what you're enjoyingabout the show.
(01:24):
Make sure to leave us afive-star review.
Type up what you're enjoyingabout the show and if we find it
, we will be sure to read it onthe show, or at least a few of
them.
If we get too popular, we'llget to the point where we can't
read all of them.
Jenny, what are we talkingabout from the world of video
games today?
We are going to be talking aboutfallout tv show yes, I'm very
(01:48):
excited to talk with you aboutthis and I just had a
constructive critique for ourshow notes.
Maybe we should change thatsense to what are we talking
about from the world of videogames yesterday?
Because, true, by the time werecord, this is the theme of
2024.
(02:08):
Our lives have gotten so chaoticand maybe this is the ordinary
world where we share everydaylife through our games but, we
are repeatedly coming up withgreat topic ideas and then just
not being able to get arecording night until it feels
like the world has moved on.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
That's so true.
Yeah, I guess the hype has dieddown a bit for the show, but
it's still a really great show.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Oh, it absolutely is, and we're going to talk more
about that later in the episode.
Jamie, what have you been up toin your gaming side of life?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I have actually been gaming on my phone.
I've talked about this gamebefore.
I played it on PC.
It's Legends of Runeterra.
It's a roguelike card game andI figured out that I can
download it to my phone about,I'd say, a month ago.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
And I didn't have any space on my phone for it.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah, so I had to go and delete a bunch of things
that I just don't use anyway.
And, yeah, since then I've beenplaying on my phone a lot and
it's so much fun.
I just got my first S tier runa couple weeks ago and that was
cool.
I have a bunch of my playersleveled up and, yeah, I'm just
(03:34):
grinding out, having funfiguring out new challengers and
, yeah, it's been fun.
The other thing that hasconsumed my life and is not
gaming related would be reallycool if they made a game having
to do with this.
But so I've been sucked intothe ACOTAR books and, for people
(03:57):
who don't know, it's the Courtof Thorn and Roses is the first
book of the series.
There's five books right nowand she's currently the author
is Sarah J Maas is currentlyworking on the next one, but it
has completely consumed my life.
I have burned through the firstthree books.
I just finished the third booktoday and it's absolute.
(04:21):
It's such a fun, fun world tolearn about and the books are
just so good.
There's twists and turns,there's love stories.
It's really great.
I love it.
Have you heard of this series?
Speaker 1 (04:32):
What is the series named?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Court of Thorns and Roses.
That's the name of the firstbook and I believe the series is
named that, or at least that'show people refer to it.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
I don't know very much about it at all.
That's definitely true.
But I also have this feelingthat it's caught my eye walking
through Barnes Noble orsomething, and that I've at
least glanced at it and takennotice that this is a book
series that seems to beprominent.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yeah, it's been really great.
It takes place in a world wherethere's like a fairy land and a
human land and they're at oddsand there's the big bads and the
good guys and the in-betweens.
It's really good, really good.
It's also muddy, which is fun.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
That is fun, that makes everything fun.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yeah, there I was on a plane.
I went to new york last weekand there's just one particular
scene where I'm like listeningto it and I'm looking around,
I'm just like I don't know.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
This feels weird if only anyone on this plane knew
what I'm listening to.
Yeah that reminds me of thatconference last year when I got
to the geralt and yennefer scenein caramor n, and just you
finished this quest, so let's gohave fun upstairs, and I'm just
(06:00):
like.
Are there any miners sittingnext to me or behind me?
Because I'm embarrassed?
Oh, at least, though, it soundslike it was only in your
headphones, yeah yeah, yeah.
Okay, okay.
So you're much less of a publicoffense than I was yeah.
(06:21):
So one of the things I've beendying to talk with you about,
jenny, is that I actually, sincethe last time we recorded, have
finished Final Fantasy VIIRebirth on my first playthrough
and, yes, and I accomplished afew extra goals that I had for
that playthrough that I'm reallyhappy about, goals that I had
(06:42):
for that playthrough that I'mreally happy about I was able to
build up the relationshippoints between Cloud and Tifa so
that Tifa is the party memberthat goes on the date in chapter
12 of the game with Cloud andthat's something that takes me
(07:04):
back all the way to my firstever time playing final fantasy
7 on your ps1 is the person thatyou talk to the most and
interact with.
That might not be exactly howthey measure it, but that's the
person that ends up going on thedate with you either eric or
tifa.
You can get some of the otherparty members to show up and do
(07:24):
the date with you Either Aerithor Tifa.
You can get some of the otherparty members To show up and do.
The date scene was reallyelaborate In this remake, though
.
They added this whole 3D OperaStage show that you wear the
headset and it puts you in therole Of the characters.
(07:44):
And then you have this reactiontime game while the battles are
happening on stage and man,just so many parts of it, from
that part of the game on to theend, made me cry so many times.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Oh, that's so cool Not that you're crying.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
No, I love that.
I was crying too, like I'm notso macho that I can't talk about
that on this show.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I'm just saying your tears don't bring me joy, just
clarify.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Okay, oh, I got too literal there but the situation
that this game is playing withand teasing the game player of,
are we going to change it?
You've been living your wholelife with this moment, and that
moment is the death of eric.
Final fantasy 7 original andbecause remake was so much about
(08:43):
the characters trying to makedifferent choices.
But the Fae characters that arenamed Whispers in this game
would always fly in and drag youto be exactly in the spot that
you've always been, and so ifthe Fae Whispers are going to
keep showing up and drag us tothe place we've always been,
(09:06):
that means Aerith has to dieright.
But the way they did the end ofthe game was, in my opinion,
beautiful.
I don't really want to go intomore detail unless we're going
to do a spoiler cast kind ofepisode where everything's on
the table and nothing's offlimits.
(09:27):
I'm sure I will want to do thateventually, because Final
Fantasy VII is a major game inthe through lines that tie the
stages of the gamer's journeytogether in my book.
So I would imagine if you haveno interest in Final Fantasy VII
and you tried to read my book,you would hate me.
(09:49):
Everybody love Final FantasyVII.
And then, please, everybodylove the Gamer's Journey, right,
I've made a lot of progress onthe book.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Yeah, it's really coming together.
Yesterday I went live on Twitchfor about an hour just to
record some of my thoughts withmy audience, but also just
record my thoughts in a way thatI can transcribe it easily.
So, I have that video and thosethoughts were things that I
(10:25):
might want to talk about in myforward for the book.
So just tiny little two orthree page thing that happens
before the intro chapter.
So I didn't have time to fitworking on that into my workday
today.
But that'll definitely be atomorrow task and then just
(10:47):
gotta do a couple more updatesand then I'm gonna send it on
again, hopefully for the lasttime but you know, oh, that's so
exciting yeah, but I know I'vesaid that before.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
There's always another time I was gonna say I
feel like it's been so long thatyou've had like technically
finished writing it.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, it's been two years since I started writing it
.
It's been 18 months since Ifinished the first draft.
There's so many other stepsthat you just don't realize
exist in book writing,especially when the author and
the editor and everyone involvedis doing it part time because
we're all engrossed in theseother goals in life.
(11:36):
I'm sure it's a lot easier toget a book out every six months
if everybody working on itthat's their full time gig,
Right?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
So I'm just very excited.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
It will be totally worth it.
Twitch book writing.
We got an episode of thepodcast out recently.
Our downloads are starting togo more in the up direction
because people are starting tonotice episodes are happening
again, so that's always fun.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Sweet.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah.
So let's go ahead and start ourCall to Adventure, where we get
into our topic for the week and, very simply put, the Fallout
TV show is a great example ofwhat video games can offer to
television.
So we thought it would be agreat.
(12:32):
Yeah, we thought it would be agreat opportunity for us to
revisit that topic, because oneof the last times we did this
topic, jenny, we talked aboutthe Netflix Resident Evil show,
which crashed and burned noteven magnificently I'm the only
person in the world that enjoyedthat show.
So now we have an opportunityto revisit that topic with a
(12:57):
game and a TV show that peopleseem to like.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Yeah, I think that's happening more and more lately.
I, of course aside fromresident evil, which I wouldn't
even know about because I'm notwatching that show, but but yeah
, I feel like every timesomething comes out not every
time, but lately when theseshows are coming out like last
of us and now fallout, theaudience is not just gamers,
(13:27):
it's like regular people, andthe stories are incredible and
the characters are amazing andthe product being put out is
enticing to everyone.
So I think that's reallyexciting because it just draws
people more into this world ofvideo games and lends
credibility to how amazing it isto be a gamer.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Absolutely so.
I'm just thinking about otherexamples.
You mentioned the Last of Us.
We had a Mario movie.
Yeah, I love that movie thatmovie is gonna lead into a
sequel.
They're probably gonna have acinematic universe eventually.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
You know nintendo easter eggs in that movie made
my heart so happy.
Just the sounds in that movie.
Every once in a while somethingwould make a sound.
I'm like oh my gosh, I rememberthe sound.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Just the da-da-da-da-da-da you know.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Even though my voice doesn't even sound like the
proper instruments.
People might have gotten alittle spike of dopamine from
our podcast, just because thatseries of notes is ingrained in
our societies as a society and,by the way, that is a big reason
why I come around with the ideaso often that video games are
(14:55):
modern mythology.
Mythology is a way for peopleto share stories, characters and
situations that are aboutinspiring hope, developing
resilience and getting throughtough situations and looking up
to amazing characters andindividuals, and those qualities
(15:17):
are the qualities we want tohave in ourselves.
I think Mario and Peach in thatmovie are great examples of
that.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Maybe not so much in Fallout, because Fallout plays a
lot more with moral gray areas.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Oh, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yeah, yeah.
But so we have the Last of Us,we have Mario.
Halo has a TV show.
Now I haven't watched it, Idon't know very much about it,
but that's really cool andReally, when a video game has a
TV show that has advertising andhas the machine of these big
(16:00):
studios behind them, it bringsmore eyes and more awareness to
the game property.
And so then you have gamersbeing like I'd love to watch
that, which is us saying I justlove the story and the
characters.
I don't have to have acontroller and a challenge that
I'm trying to complete to enjoythat story.
(16:22):
But it also flips the other way.
It's people that don't everhave a controller saying, oh,
that world looks interesting,I'd like to know more about it.
And then maybe it gets them toconsider playing the game after
they finish it and enjoy it somuch.
Yeah, so it's really just goodfor games, but it's also good
(16:46):
for people to realize that someof the best stories that people
pour their heart and soul intotelling are actually video games
.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah, absolutely it's .
I feel like lately movies andmaybe not so much serious TV
series I've gotten into quite afew of them, but definitely
movies.
I have not been to the movietheater.
I can't remember the last timeI went, it was probably with you
to see something.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Oh I.
Star Wars, episode nine.
Nine.
It's not been that long, butsky.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
There's just.
Original content is hard tocome by these days and I think
these video game adaptations arelike really scratching that
itch it's.
It's not technically originalcontent because it's based on
something else, but it's themonomyth, jenny yeah, but but
for people who are not in thegaming world, it is, it's an
(17:46):
introduction to.
It's their originalintroduction to the content.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
So yeah, absolutely.
How much of the fallout showhave you watched up to this
point, jenny?
One episode okay, so there'seight total, I think yeah, yeah,
I've been.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I was hooked right away and I was ready to watch
the next one, but it was lateand I shared with you earlier
this week that I can't seem toturn on the TV without falling
asleep lately.
You know everyone.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I don't know what age you think me and Jenny are.
We are much older than we werewhen we first met.
Yes, and the fact that we'rerecording this episode at almost
10 pm.
Our time is miraculous BecauseI don't do anything this
(18:40):
productive as it's late anymore.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I know Seriously.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Oh, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
No, I was just going to say it's been a challenge to
find another time where I'm notready to go to sleep and also my
boyfriend is available to watchit, because we're watching it
together.
I'm very interested.
I can't wait to watch the rest,but I need to find a day where
we can binge a couple episodes.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Tomorrow sounds good, right, yeah, all right.
So the the big part of falloutthat always just makes me go wow
, the big part of Fallout thatalways just makes me go wow,
that was powerful is actuallypart of the hero's journey, and
(19:26):
it's the part of the journey,the stage called Crossing the
Threshold, okay, and so we'realways talking about our
ordinary world, and then there'sthe supernatural world, or,
when I'm talking, the gamer'sjourney.
That's the psychological worldwhere the video game taps into
our imagination and helps uslearn things about ourselves.
And that world can only happenbecause of how video games
(19:47):
connect with us.
In Fallout, the characters thatare in the vault, so, like
Lucyy's character, she is avault dweller at the beginning
of the show and she eventuallyhas to leave the vault because
shenanigans and in the tv showthey captured.
(20:09):
That moment that really made melove this series of video games
is that moment where you gothrough all the chaos in the
vault.
It's tense, there's a threat toyour life.
You open the vault door, yousee the light, the sunlight from
the outside world, for thefirst time in your whole life
(20:33):
and you decide to exit the vaultand enter the real world, the
outer world.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yeah, and see the ocean.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, and I just think that's such a powerful
metaphor for us to focus on,because there's always a moment
in time when we decide to go andbecome something in our lives
where we're stuck in thatordinary world.
We're not that thing yet, we'renot on the path to being that
(21:04):
thing, but we wish we were somuch.
And the courage it takes toexit the vault door is crippling
for a lot of people.
And that accomplishment isimmediately followed by all
kinds of challenges, because nowyou're in a place where you
(21:25):
really have to go for it.
You have to remember what thereal goal is, and fallout has so
many things you can do in thatworld.
The main quest is not the juicypart of that video game, it's
just there but the ability tointeract with that world and
really create consequences forthat world is one of my favorite
(21:49):
things about the Fallout videogame series.
Yeah, crossing the threshold,threshold, making choices what
is it about these games?
Or the the tv show so far?
Speaker 2 (21:59):
that's really grabbing you, jenny I didn't go
as deep as relating it to thehero's journey, but so the I
would say it's just.
There's a lot.
It's bringing up lots ofquestions for me and I want to
know more.
I want to understand more aboutthis world.
(22:22):
So I've never played Falloutand I've actually never seen it
played, except for the fact thatit was post-apocalyptic.
And I can recognize the littleFallout guy anywhere, but I
don't know anything about him orhis significance or the thumbs
up.
I don't know any of that.
It's just, at least for thefirst episode, that's what I'm
(22:47):
drawing my insight from.
I want to know more.
I want to know what is outthere.
I want to know where did theygo?
I don't want to do too manyspoilers, but I want to know
what the heck is going on with.
This brotherhood and maximushas me really confused yeah um,
(23:15):
yeah, I'm just I so curious.
It has completely piqued mycuriosity, I'm.
I want to understand it more,so I'm.
That's what I've loved so farabout it.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
That's really neat that you're gravitating towards
all these questions, especiallythe ones with the Brotherhood
and Maximus, because when youstart the show or the game or
whatever in the perspective ofsomeone in the vault, you exit
the vault, You're in the worldnow.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
And you're on the road of trials, right.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Oh, where we face our challenges and discover our
strengths.
I was going to say we should goon the road of trials.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
The larger world that's not sheltered I was going
to say we should go a littleroad trip the larger world
that's not sheltered.
All these different sects andcults and armies and militia and
gangs and all these things arejust fighting to survive in this
world.
That is not safe at all.
And in the early episodes lucyis extremely naive and is trying
(24:17):
to bring the civility of thevault into this world.
What do you mean they're trying?
They're gonna chew her up andspit her out because because her
innocence and her mission is soout of place in a world like
Fallout and, by the way, it'slike in the future.
(24:39):
But everything also looks likethe 1950s, but with much better
technology.
If the 1950s really amped up thekinds of things that they were
capable of from a technologyperspective, but it's still very
outdated looking, so I thinkthat's such a cool aesthetic
(25:04):
right.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
I agree it's fun.
It's a fun world.
I mean there are not fun partsabout it, but it puts it like
it's trying to be nostalgic butit's not because it's futuristic
.
Yeah, yeah, I love theaesthetics of the 50s.
That's always intriguing.
(25:24):
I love period pieces.
I love watching shows that areset back in time, and the 50s
and 60s are definitely one ofthose periods that draws me to
it aesthetically.
It's a beautiful.
I don't know.
There's something about it,like the first couple minutes of
the show where they're clearlyset.
It's clearly set back then andthey have the party and even
(25:48):
just the house, the mid-centurymodern aesthetic, the
architecture.
I'm drawn to that.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Let's see that's yeah the timeline for the show.
Is'm drawn to that.
Let's see that's yeah.
The timeline for the show isvery confusing to me and we're
gonna have to talk about thatmore in the future.
Where you have finished theseason, jenny?
okay but, um, I just want toshare that.
I went on threads when we weregetting ready to do this episode
and I put out a coupledifferent polls just to see how
(26:19):
people are responding to the TVshow, and there are two things
that I would like to talk aboutfrom these questions.
The first one is have you goneback to playing a Fallout game
in the last couple weeks becauseof the TV show?
And 60% of the people who votedsaid yes, absolutely so.
(26:41):
All the podcasts I'm listeningto have at least one person that
acknowledges that they're backinto Fallout 76.
Fallout 4 had its PS5 graphicsupdate, so they're trying to
refresh the game so that itlooks nice enough for the
current consoles.
That's awesome.
(27:02):
A lot of people don't like thatbecause when you update a game,
you break all the mods, andthat was a heavily modded game
for a lot of people if you'rejust playing the base game the
way it comes when you downloadit.
In theory, it looks nicer rightnow than it used to.
And, by the way, I would bevery interested in playing both
(27:23):
Fallout 76 and Fallout 4.
I've never finished Fallout 4.
I mean, 76 is an MMO styleshooter game, so you don't
really finish those.
I would say you just build yourlifestyle around them Right.
Yeah.
The second question, and thisis my favorite thing we have
(27:43):
talked thousands ofconversations about moral
decision-making in video games,jenny, including Star Wars, the
old Republic, which has thelight side, dark side system
that I love so much.
In Fallout, there definitely isa morality system, and a lot of
the quests have these pivotalmoments where what you choose in
(28:05):
the dialogue or what switchyou're going to flip, decides
whether you are a force for good, for very bad or for neutral in
this world.
And it's ambiguous a lot oftimes too.
It's not like Jedi and Sith,where you make the Jedi choice,
the screen lights up blue andyou know you did good for the
(28:26):
galaxy.
It's more, you chose who youwanted to back here.
They're going to have a happierlife and a chance to survive.
People clearly are gonna diebecause of this decision.
Hope you can live with thatchoice.
And then you keep playing thegame and when I watch the tv
show and I picked up on this,probably the second or third
(28:48):
episode it's like I could tellthat's the game moment where the
character is going to chooseand you don't get to choose
because we're the audience.
We don't have a controller,jenny, yeah, so that was just so
fun for me to start watchingthis show.
Like, what if this was a game?
(29:09):
How would it work if it was agame?
And that's where the secondquestion leads in.
Do you have the show notes?
Do you want to read the secondquestion?
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yeah.
So after watching all or someof the Fallout TV show, which
character matches your playstyle or moral, decision making
the closest.
So the options are Lucy,maximus the ghoul or none of
them.
So before you read the answer.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Jenny, what would you say?
Speaker 2 (29:40):
I was just going to say I don't know that I can
answer this yet because Idefinitely don't know anything
about the ghoul.
He was in the show for twoseconds.
He's pretty evil, I guess.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
So sure are you?
Speaker 2 (29:54):
I wasn't.
I said I guess that's why whyI'm like I guess he's evil?
I don't know, because thoseguys didn't seem like they were
good guys.
Obviously lucy is like themoral good and I have no idea
what to think of maximus.
He like he has completelyconfused me as a character.
I don't know anything about him.
I don't know if he did whatthey accused him of.
(30:17):
It seems like he did, but Idon't know.
He seems a whiny guy.
I'm not a fan of him, so youwould not be friends with
maximus no, he's, he bothers mefor now.
This is just the first episode,so typically, typically I play
the evil character.
So the ghoul seems like it'd beclosest to what I would play,
(30:41):
maybe.
But I definitely was drawn toLucy's character more because
she might be moral good, butshe's a badass Like she will
murder you if you mess with her.
So I like that.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Don't mess with her, so I like that the ghoul has so
much character development thatyou find out as the season goes
on, and I'm really excited totalk with you more about him.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
The ghoul.
I have a feeling.
I don't know if this is aspoiler, if this is obvious to
everyone.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Go for it.
This is our show.
We're not even live right now.
Just go for it, isn't?
Speaker 2 (31:15):
the gh.
We're not even live right now.
Just go for it.
Isn't the gold, the cowboy fromthe beginning?
Speaker 1 (31:23):
maybe, but are they like hundreds of years in the?
Speaker 2 (31:27):
future?
Speaker 1 (31:29):
yeah, but he doesn't seem like he's a normal being
yeah, so there's a lot more ofthat kind of stuff going on in
this show where that past thatyou saw with the bombs and the
fallout happening, you'reactually not done with
flashbacks.
That's one of my favoritethings is the timey-wimey-ness.
(31:52):
54% of the people who haveprobably the majority of those
people have actually finishedthe season, too.
Did side with the Lucy vote on.
I play the game the most likeLucy.
I had a very difficult carconversation with my wife about
(32:14):
this, though, because she saidthe same thing.
She said Lucy and I decided tobe playful and just poke at that
a little bit, and there's aquest where she makes a really
dumb good girl decision in oneof the upcoming episodes.
(32:34):
It's one of those decisionswhere, in the video game, it's
like make the super morally goodchoice and fight a hundred
crazy zombies, or make themorally gray choice that's kind
of good and only fight threereally powerful zombies and then
(32:54):
make the bad choice and blowthem all up without having to
fight anybody that kind of thing.
I didn't spoil it, becausethat's not exactly the scenario
I think so she wouldn't havebeen my first choice.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
It probably would have been cool, but I think the
fact that she might be like goodand pure and make the good of
your choice, the fact that shecan she's trained her entire
life to be an assassin, yeahmakes it easier to pick her yeah
(33:28):
, absolutely she is.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
She's the player character yeah for sure, jenny,
as you progress through the tvshow, I want you to promise me
that, whatever episode it iswhere you decide the ghoul is
your guy.
I want you to text me, okay,like episode three, the ghoul is
(33:50):
my guy, or whatever right I.
I just want to.
I want to be able to follow upwith you and if we can include
it in a future episode, that'sgreat.
Yeah, if it's just you and me,that's great too.
I just feel, very without anysurprise in me, that the goal is
your guy I look forward to thatmoment for sure.
(34:14):
The reason we do the gamingpersona podcast is because we
want people to enjoy thepsychology of video games.
I would just like to talk abouthow shows like Fallout help in
doing that.
I don't have anything writtenthis is completely off script
but it's one of those thingswhere I think we imply a lot.
(34:38):
Jenny, on this show and peoplethat have chosen to listen.
This is probably I don't knowhow many people.
This would be the first episodeyou ever get to meet us, but
that's true, hi, it's reallynice to meet you.
Fallout is not our normal kindof game, but it has a lot of the
things in it that our normalgames also have.
(35:00):
So here we are, but I justwhenever a video game that is
already super popular Bethesdais a very lone studio and they
get to put their logo on thelittle TV at the front of the
episode.
So now people that don't knowwhat Bethesda is are like what
(35:24):
is a Bethesda?
And then the gamer on the couchwith them.
The day we should watch thevosh, I was like it's bethesda,
mom.
And then now you have aconversation like what do they
do?
They do the elder scrolls, theydo starfield, they do fallout
(35:44):
and that that set of sentencesright.
There is so many potentialconversations.
So what do you think on thatwhole video games becoming tv
shows, like connecting people,like?
What are your thoughts on that,jenny?
Speaker 2 (36:03):
I think I said it early in the episode.
I love that we are reachingdifferent audiences with video
game lore and people areappreciating it and people are
like they're binge watching a TVshow based on a video game
(36:24):
that's been around for manyyears.
That is a lot of people'sfavorite video game.
It's just such a cool thing towitness and to have my friends
who I know would never play thisvideo game talk to me about the
show and we can commiserateabout it and talk about the
characters.
We don't normally get to talkabout this kind of stuff my
(36:46):
non-gamer friends and I and it'scool, it's fun.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
It definitely builds that connection yeah, so
bringing in people that are notnormally a part of video games,
but also the tv show givesscripted moments so that you can
get the very best out of thestory, and when you play a video
game, you don't get to thestory until you earn it.
(37:10):
Yeah, and that's not just askill check, that's also a time
investment, and when you have aTV show you can make a judgment
about.
I have 45 minutes of free timeright now.
I can watch this show and Iknow that there will be an
(37:34):
initiation, a challenge and aresolution, and then that will
lead to the next episode Invideo games.
If I have 45 minutes, I'm notguaranteed that anything
meaningful is going to happen.
Right as I just discovered withmy 85 hours to finish Final
Fantasy VII Rebirth, there wereso many 45 minutes where nothing
(37:57):
meaningful happened, includingmy three days straight of just
doing a jump rope game as a frog.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Oh no, I have no idea what you're talking about and
I'm just doing a jump rope gameas a frog.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Oh no, I have no idea what you're talking about and
I'm glad, oh, you'll knowsomeday.
I really just hope that, out ofpeople that listen to the show
or people that want gaming to bea healthy part of their fun in
life, that it helps createconversations and make gaming
(38:33):
seem fun and cool and innovativeand part of what mythology in a
modern world would look like.
Yeah, it doesn't have to havedragons and wizards in order to
be.
It doesn't have to be fantasyto be a mythology, it can.
(38:53):
It can be industrial, it can besteampunk, it can be cyberpunk,
it could have any kind ofpumpkin and it turns out.
In fact, if wrestling is modernmythology, it can have cm punk.
Oh, I don't know what thatmeans.
I don't.
That's the name of a wrestler,jenny okay yeah, I'm proud that
(39:18):
I saidthat, yeah, take that all right.
So I just man, it's such a goodtime to be a gamer right now,
and I remember when this wholejourney was like not even
started by me.
I remember one particular timethat I called a game player a
(39:41):
gamer in a supervision sessionthat I was writing and someone
asked why I was being insultingto them it's a bad word and I
was just so confused in that andnow it's I would be a lot more
confident and be like that'swrong, that word.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Yeah, that's not a derogatory term.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
We can be geeks, we can be gamers.
It's just we got to take thewords that describe our identity
and embrace them.
Agreed, let's go on the returnand get back to our daily lives.
Take our next step forward,final part of our conversation
today Getting back into ourvault when everything is safe
(40:29):
and cozy.
Don't get too comfortable.
There might be some weirdscience experiments in this one.
So, jenny, what are you takingwith you In the aftermath Of
this conversation, or thefallout of this conversation?
Fantastic, I'm just.
You planted the little seed ofthis conversation.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Fantastic, I'm just I .
You planted the little seed inmy head that the goal is my guy
and I cannot wait to figure outwhen the goal is my guy.
That's all I can think aboutright now.
I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Two right now Homework Okay.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
We recorded really late, so I don't think that's
happening.
I'm going to go pass out, butyeah, somewhere.
Okay, we recorded really late,so I don't think that's
happening.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
I'm gonna go pass out , but yeah, somewhere, jenny not
here so if these conversationssound fun to you and you're
looking for some great people toplay online games with, check
out aie at aie-guildorg.
And I have one last quest foreveryone to collect for the day
Make your Vault-Tec payments ontime and continue your journey.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
See you next time.
Welcome to the Gaming Persona Podcast.
This is the show that exploreswho we become when we play games
.
I'm your host, Dr Gameologyfrom YouTube and online
classrooms across the country,and I'm joined by one of my best
friends from my gaming journey,Jenny LeBron.
Jenny, how are you doing thisweek?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I'm doing fantastic and I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I am glad to hear that I've been looking forward
to this conversation all week,plus some time, and we got here
here.
So, before we get started,where can our listeners find us?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
you can find my photography page on instagram at
jlebron photography or jlebronphotographycom if you're curious
about what nerdy person'sphotos look like and I am at dr
gamology, on twitch, youtubethreads, facebook, instagram,
all the social apps.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
course, you can find me on this show every week.
The Gaming Persona can be foundon Apple Podcasts, spotify,
google YouTube and anywhere elsepodcasts can be found.
If you're enjoying our contentand we really mean this, is very
important for people to be ableto find our show make sure to
leave us a five-star review.
Type up what you're enjoyingabout the show.
(01:24):
Make sure to leave us afive-star review.
Type up what you're enjoyingabout the show and if we find it
, we will be sure to read it onthe show, or at least a few of
them.
If we get too popular, we'llget to the point where we can't
read all of them.
Jenny, what are we talkingabout from the world of video
games today?
We are going to be talking aboutfallout tv show yes, I'm very
(01:48):
excited to talk with you aboutthis and I just had a
constructive critique for ourshow notes.
Maybe we should change thatsense to what are we talking
about from the world of videogames yesterday?
Because, true, by the time werecord, this is the theme of
2024.
(02:08):
Our lives have gotten so chaoticand maybe this is the ordinary
world where we share everydaylife through our games but, we
are repeatedly coming up withgreat topic ideas and then just
not being able to get arecording night until it feels
like the world has moved on.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
That's so true.
Yeah, I guess the hype has dieddown a bit for the show, but
it's still a really great show.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Oh, it absolutely is, and we're going to talk more
about that later in the episode.
Jamie, what have you been up toin your gaming side of life?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I have actually been gaming on my phone.
I've talked about this gamebefore.
I played it on PC.
It's Legends of Runeterra.
It's a roguelike card game andI figured out that I can
download it to my phone about,I'd say, a month ago.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
And I didn't have any space on my phone for it.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah, so I had to go and delete a bunch of things
that I just don't use anyway.
And, yeah, since then I've beenplaying on my phone a lot and
it's so much fun.
I just got my first S tier runa couple weeks ago and that was
cool.
I have a bunch of my playersleveled up and, yeah, I'm just
(03:34):
grinding out, having funfiguring out new challengers and
, yeah, it's been fun.
The other thing that hasconsumed my life and is not
gaming related would be reallycool if they made a game having
to do with this.
But so I've been sucked intothe ACOTAR books and, for people
(03:57):
who don't know, it's the Courtof Thorn and Roses is the first
book of the series.
There's five books right nowand she's currently the author
is Sarah J Maas is currentlyworking on the next one, but it
has completely consumed my life.
I have burned through the firstthree books.
I just finished the third booktoday and it's absolute.
(04:21):
It's such a fun, fun world tolearn about and the books are
just so good.
There's twists and turns,there's love stories.
It's really great.
I love it.
Have you heard of this series?
Speaker 1 (04:32):
What is the series named?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Court of Thorns and Roses.
That's the name of the firstbook and I believe the series is
named that, or at least that'show people refer to it.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
I don't know very much about it at all.
That's definitely true.
But I also have this feelingthat it's caught my eye walking
through Barnes Noble orsomething, and that I've at
least glanced at it and takennotice that this is a book
series that seems to beprominent.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yeah, it's been really great.
It takes place in a world wherethere's like a fairy land and a
human land and they're at oddsand there's the big bads and the
good guys and the in-betweens.
It's really good, really good.
It's also muddy, which is fun.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
That is fun, that makes everything fun.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yeah, there I was on a plane.
I went to new york last weekand there's just one particular
scene where I'm like listeningto it and I'm looking around,
I'm just like I don't know.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
This feels weird if only anyone on this plane knew
what I'm listening to.
Yeah that reminds me of thatconference last year when I got
to the geralt and yennefer scenein caramor n, and just you
finished this quest, so let's gohave fun upstairs, and I'm just
(06:00):
like.
Are there any miners sittingnext to me or behind me?
Because I'm embarrassed?
Oh, at least, though, it soundslike it was only in your
headphones, yeah yeah, yeah.
Okay, okay.
So you're much less of a publicoffense than I was yeah.
(06:21):
So one of the things I've beendying to talk with you about,
jenny, is that I actually, sincethe last time we recorded, have
finished Final Fantasy VIIRebirth on my first playthrough
and, yes, and I accomplished afew extra goals that I had for
that playthrough that I'm reallyhappy about, goals that I had
(06:42):
for that playthrough that I'mreally happy about I was able to
build up the relationshippoints between Cloud and Tifa so
that Tifa is the party memberthat goes on the date in chapter
12 of the game with Cloud andthat's something that takes me
(07:04):
back all the way to my firstever time playing final fantasy
7 on your ps1 is the person thatyou talk to the most and
interact with.
That might not be exactly howthey measure it, but that's the
person that ends up going on thedate with you either eric or
tifa.
You can get some of the otherparty members to show up and do
(07:24):
the date with you Either Aerithor Tifa.
You can get some of the otherparty members To show up and do.
The date scene was reallyelaborate In this remake, though
.
They added this whole 3D OperaStage show that you wear the
headset and it puts you in therole Of the characters.
(07:44):
And then you have this reactiontime game while the battles are
happening on stage and man,just so many parts of it, from
that part of the game on to theend, made me cry so many times.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Oh, that's so cool Not that you're crying.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
No, I love that.
I was crying too, like I'm notso macho that I can't talk about
that on this show.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I'm just saying your tears don't bring me joy, just
clarify.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Okay, oh, I got too literal there but the situation
that this game is playing withand teasing the game player of,
are we going to change it?
You've been living your wholelife with this moment, and that
moment is the death of eric.
Final fantasy 7 original andbecause remake was so much about
(08:43):
the characters trying to makedifferent choices.
But the Fae characters that arenamed Whispers in this game
would always fly in and drag youto be exactly in the spot that
you've always been, and so ifthe Fae Whispers are going to
keep showing up and drag us tothe place we've always been,
(09:06):
that means Aerith has to dieright.
But the way they did the end ofthe game was, in my opinion,
beautiful.
I don't really want to go intomore detail unless we're going
to do a spoiler cast kind ofepisode where everything's on
the table and nothing's offlimits.
(09:27):
I'm sure I will want to do thateventually, because Final
Fantasy VII is a major game inthe through lines that tie the
stages of the gamer's journeytogether in my book.
So I would imagine if you haveno interest in Final Fantasy VII
and you tried to read my book,you would hate me.
(09:49):
Everybody love Final FantasyVII.
And then, please, everybodylove the Gamer's Journey, right,
I've made a lot of progress onthe book.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Yeah, it's really coming together.
Yesterday I went live on Twitchfor about an hour just to
record some of my thoughts withmy audience, but also just
record my thoughts in a way thatI can transcribe it easily.
So, I have that video and thosethoughts were things that I
(10:25):
might want to talk about in myforward for the book.
So just tiny little two orthree page thing that happens
before the intro chapter.
So I didn't have time to fitworking on that into my workday
today.
But that'll definitely be atomorrow task and then just
(10:47):
gotta do a couple more updatesand then I'm gonna send it on
again, hopefully for the lasttime but you know, oh, that's so
exciting yeah, but I know I'vesaid that before.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
There's always another time I was gonna say I
feel like it's been so long thatyou've had like technically
finished writing it.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, it's been two years since I started writing it
.
It's been 18 months since Ifinished the first draft.
There's so many other stepsthat you just don't realize
exist in book writing,especially when the author and
the editor and everyone involvedis doing it part time because
we're all engrossed in theseother goals in life.
(11:36):
I'm sure it's a lot easier toget a book out every six months
if everybody working on itthat's their full time gig,
Right?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
So I'm just very excited.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
It will be totally worth it.
Twitch book writing.
We got an episode of thepodcast out recently.
Our downloads are starting togo more in the up direction
because people are starting tonotice episodes are happening
again, so that's always fun.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Sweet.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah.
So let's go ahead and start ourCall to Adventure, where we get
into our topic for the week and, very simply put, the Fallout
TV show is a great example ofwhat video games can offer to
television.
So we thought it would be agreat.
(12:32):
Yeah, we thought it would be agreat opportunity for us to
revisit that topic, because oneof the last times we did this
topic, jenny, we talked aboutthe Netflix Resident Evil show,
which crashed and burned noteven magnificently I'm the only
person in the world that enjoyedthat show.
So now we have an opportunityto revisit that topic with a
(12:57):
game and a TV show that peopleseem to like.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Yeah, I think that's happening more and more lately.
I, of course aside fromresident evil, which I wouldn't
even know about because I'm notwatching that show, but but yeah
, I feel like every timesomething comes out not every
time, but lately when theseshows are coming out like last
of us and now fallout, theaudience is not just gamers,
(13:27):
it's like regular people, andthe stories are incredible and
the characters are amazing andthe product being put out is
enticing to everyone.
So I think that's reallyexciting because it just draws
people more into this world ofvideo games and lends
credibility to how amazing it isto be a gamer.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Absolutely so.
I'm just thinking about otherexamples.
You mentioned the Last of Us.
We had a Mario movie.
Yeah, I love that movie thatmovie is gonna lead into a
sequel.
They're probably gonna have acinematic universe eventually.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
You know nintendo easter eggs in that movie made
my heart so happy.
Just the sounds in that movie.
Every once in a while somethingwould make a sound.
I'm like oh my gosh, I rememberthe sound.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Just the da-da-da-da-da-da you know.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Even though my voice doesn't even sound like the
proper instruments.
People might have gotten alittle spike of dopamine from
our podcast, just because thatseries of notes is ingrained in
our societies as a society and,by the way, that is a big reason
why I come around with the ideaso often that video games are
(14:55):
modern mythology.
Mythology is a way for peopleto share stories, characters and
situations that are aboutinspiring hope, developing
resilience and getting throughtough situations and looking up
to amazing characters andindividuals, and those qualities
(15:17):
are the qualities we want tohave in ourselves.
I think Mario and Peach in thatmovie are great examples of
that.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Maybe not so much in Fallout, because Fallout plays a
lot more with moral gray areas.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Oh, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yeah, yeah.
But so we have the Last of Us,we have Mario.
Halo has a TV show.
Now I haven't watched it, Idon't know very much about it,
but that's really cool andReally, when a video game has a
TV show that has advertising andhas the machine of these big
(16:00):
studios behind them, it bringsmore eyes and more awareness to
the game property.
And so then you have gamersbeing like I'd love to watch
that, which is us saying I justlove the story and the
characters.
I don't have to have acontroller and a challenge that
I'm trying to complete to enjoythat story.
(16:22):
But it also flips the other way.
It's people that don't everhave a controller saying, oh,
that world looks interesting,I'd like to know more about it.
And then maybe it gets them toconsider playing the game after
they finish it and enjoy it somuch.
Yeah, so it's really just goodfor games, but it's also good
(16:46):
for people to realize that someof the best stories that people
pour their heart and soul intotelling are actually video games
.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah, absolutely it's .
I feel like lately movies andmaybe not so much serious TV
series I've gotten into quite afew of them, but definitely
movies.
I have not been to the movietheater.
I can't remember the last timeI went, it was probably with you
to see something.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Oh I.
Star Wars, episode nine.
Nine.
It's not been that long, butsky.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
There's just.
Original content is hard tocome by these days and I think
these video game adaptations arelike really scratching that
itch it's.
It's not technically originalcontent because it's based on
something else, but it's themonomyth, jenny yeah, but but
for people who are not in thegaming world, it is, it's an
(17:46):
introduction to.
It's their originalintroduction to the content.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
So yeah, absolutely.
How much of the fallout showhave you watched up to this
point, jenny?
One episode okay, so there'seight total, I think yeah, yeah,
I've been.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I was hooked right away and I was ready to watch
the next one, but it was lateand I shared with you earlier
this week that I can't seem toturn on the TV without falling
asleep lately.
You know everyone.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I don't know what age you think me and Jenny are.
We are much older than we werewhen we first met.
Yes, and the fact that we'rerecording this episode at almost
10 pm.
Our time is miraculous BecauseI don't do anything this
(18:40):
productive as it's late anymore.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I know Seriously.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Oh, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
No, I was just going to say it's been a challenge to
find another time where I'm notready to go to sleep and also my
boyfriend is available to watchit, because we're watching it
together.
I'm very interested.
I can't wait to watch the rest,but I need to find a day where
we can binge a couple episodes.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Tomorrow sounds good, right, yeah, all right.
So the the big part of falloutthat always just makes me go wow
, the big part of Fallout thatalways just makes me go wow,
that was powerful is actuallypart of the hero's journey, and
(19:26):
it's the part of the journey,the stage called Crossing the
Threshold, okay, and so we'realways talking about our
ordinary world, and then there'sthe supernatural world, or,
when I'm talking, the gamer'sjourney.
That's the psychological worldwhere the video game taps into
our imagination and helps uslearn things about ourselves.
And that world can only happenbecause of how video games
(19:47):
connect with us.
In Fallout, the characters thatare in the vault, so, like
Lucyy's character, she is avault dweller at the beginning
of the show and she eventuallyhas to leave the vault because
shenanigans and in the tv showthey captured.
(20:09):
That moment that really made melove this series of video games
is that moment where you gothrough all the chaos in the
vault.
It's tense, there's a threat toyour life.
You open the vault door, yousee the light, the sunlight from
the outside world, for thefirst time in your whole life
(20:33):
and you decide to exit the vaultand enter the real world, the
outer world.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yeah, and see the ocean.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, and I just think that's such a powerful
metaphor for us to focus on,because there's always a moment
in time when we decide to go andbecome something in our lives
where we're stuck in thatordinary world.
We're not that thing yet, we'renot on the path to being that
(21:04):
thing, but we wish we were somuch.
And the courage it takes toexit the vault door is crippling
for a lot of people.
And that accomplishment isimmediately followed by all
kinds of challenges, because nowyou're in a place where you
(21:25):
really have to go for it.
You have to remember what thereal goal is, and fallout has so
many things you can do in thatworld.
The main quest is not the juicypart of that video game, it's
just there but the ability tointeract with that world and
really create consequences forthat world is one of my favorite
(21:49):
things about the Fallout videogame series.
Yeah, crossing the threshold,threshold, making choices what
is it about these games?
Or the the tv show so far?
Speaker 2 (21:59):
that's really grabbing you, jenny I didn't go
as deep as relating it to thehero's journey, but so the I
would say it's just.
There's a lot.
It's bringing up lots ofquestions for me and I want to
know more.
I want to understand more aboutthis world.
(22:22):
So I've never played Falloutand I've actually never seen it
played, except for the fact thatit was post-apocalyptic.
And I can recognize the littleFallout guy anywhere, but I
don't know anything about him orhis significance or the thumbs
up.
I don't know any of that.
It's just, at least for thefirst episode, that's what I'm
(22:47):
drawing my insight from.
I want to know more.
I want to know what is outthere.
I want to know where did theygo?
I don't want to do too manyspoilers, but I want to know
what the heck is going on with.
This brotherhood and maximushas me really confused yeah um,
(23:15):
yeah, I'm just I so curious.
It has completely piqued mycuriosity, I'm.
I want to understand it more,so I'm.
That's what I've loved so farabout it.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
That's really neat that you're gravitating towards
all these questions, especiallythe ones with the Brotherhood
and Maximus, because when youstart the show or the game or
whatever in the perspective ofsomeone in the vault, you exit
the vault, You're in the worldnow.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
And you're on the road of trials, right.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Oh, where we face our challenges and discover our
strengths.
I was going to say we should goon the road of trials.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
The larger world that's not sheltered I was going
to say we should go a littleroad trip the larger world
that's not sheltered.
All these different sects andcults and armies and militia and
gangs and all these things arejust fighting to survive in this
world.
That is not safe at all.
And in the early episodes lucyis extremely naive and is trying
(24:17):
to bring the civility of thevault into this world.
What do you mean they're trying?
They're gonna chew her up andspit her out because because her
innocence and her mission is soout of place in a world like
Fallout and, by the way, it'slike in the future.
(24:39):
But everything also looks likethe 1950s, but with much better
technology.
If the 1950s really amped up thekinds of things that they were
capable of from a technologyperspective, but it's still very
outdated looking, so I thinkthat's such a cool aesthetic
(25:04):
right.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
I agree it's fun.
It's a fun world.
I mean there are not fun partsabout it, but it puts it like
it's trying to be nostalgic butit's not because it's futuristic
.
Yeah, yeah, I love theaesthetics of the 50s.
That's always intriguing.
(25:24):
I love period pieces.
I love watching shows that areset back in time, and the 50s
and 60s are definitely one ofthose periods that draws me to
it aesthetically.
It's a beautiful.
I don't know.
There's something about it,like the first couple minutes of
the show where they're clearlyset.
It's clearly set back then andthey have the party and even
(25:48):
just the house, the mid-centurymodern aesthetic, the
architecture.
I'm drawn to that.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Let's see that's yeah the timeline for the show.
Is'm drawn to that.
Let's see that's yeah.
The timeline for the show isvery confusing to me and we're
gonna have to talk about thatmore in the future.
Where you have finished theseason, jenny?
okay but, um, I just want toshare that.
I went on threads when we weregetting ready to do this episode
and I put out a coupledifferent polls just to see how
(26:19):
people are responding to the TVshow, and there are two things
that I would like to talk aboutfrom these questions.
The first one is have you goneback to playing a Fallout game
in the last couple weeks becauseof the TV show?
And 60% of the people who votedsaid yes, absolutely so.
(26:41):
All the podcasts I'm listeningto have at least one person that
acknowledges that they're backinto Fallout 76.
Fallout 4 had its PS5 graphicsupdate, so they're trying to
refresh the game so that itlooks nice enough for the
current consoles.
That's awesome.
(27:02):
A lot of people don't like thatbecause when you update a game,
you break all the mods, andthat was a heavily modded game
for a lot of people if you'rejust playing the base game the
way it comes when you downloadit.
In theory, it looks nicer rightnow than it used to.
And, by the way, I would bevery interested in playing both
(27:23):
Fallout 76 and Fallout 4.
I've never finished Fallout 4.
I mean, 76 is an MMO styleshooter game, so you don't
really finish those.
I would say you just build yourlifestyle around them Right.
Yeah.
The second question, and thisis my favorite thing we have
(27:43):
talked thousands ofconversations about moral
decision-making in video games,jenny, including Star Wars, the
old Republic, which has thelight side, dark side system
that I love so much.
In Fallout, there definitely isa morality system, and a lot of
the quests have these pivotalmoments where what you choose in
(28:05):
the dialogue or what switchyou're going to flip, decides
whether you are a force for good, for very bad or for neutral in
this world.
And it's ambiguous a lot oftimes too.
It's not like Jedi and Sith,where you make the Jedi choice,
the screen lights up blue andyou know you did good for the
(28:26):
galaxy.
It's more, you chose who youwanted to back here.
They're going to have a happierlife and a chance to survive.
People clearly are gonna diebecause of this decision.
Hope you can live with thatchoice.
And then you keep playing thegame and when I watch the tv
show and I picked up on this,probably the second or third
(28:48):
episode it's like I could tellthat's the game moment where the
character is going to chooseand you don't get to choose
because we're the audience.
We don't have a controller,jenny, yeah, so that was just so
fun for me to start watchingthis show.
Like, what if this was a game?
(29:09):
How would it work if it was agame?
And that's where the secondquestion leads in.
Do you have the show notes?
Do you want to read the secondquestion?
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yeah.
So after watching all or someof the Fallout TV show, which
character matches your playstyle or moral, decision making
the closest.
So the options are Lucy,maximus the ghoul or none of
them.
So before you read the answer.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Jenny, what would you say?
Speaker 2 (29:40):
I was just going to say I don't know that I can
answer this yet because Idefinitely don't know anything
about the ghoul.
He was in the show for twoseconds.
He's pretty evil, I guess.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
So sure are you?
Speaker 2 (29:54):
I wasn't.
I said I guess that's why whyI'm like I guess he's evil?
I don't know, because thoseguys didn't seem like they were
good guys.
Obviously lucy is like themoral good and I have no idea
what to think of maximus.
He like he has completelyconfused me as a character.
I don't know anything about him.
I don't know if he did whatthey accused him of.
(30:17):
It seems like he did, but Idon't know.
He seems a whiny guy.
I'm not a fan of him, so youwould not be friends with
maximus no, he's, he bothers mefor now.
This is just the first episode,so typically, typically I play
the evil character.
So the ghoul seems like it'd beclosest to what I would play,
(30:41):
maybe.
But I definitely was drawn toLucy's character more because
she might be moral good, butshe's a badass Like she will
murder you if you mess with her.
So I like that.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Don't mess with her, so I like that the ghoul has so
much character development thatyou find out as the season goes
on, and I'm really excited totalk with you more about him.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
The ghoul.
I have a feeling.
I don't know if this is aspoiler, if this is obvious to
everyone.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Go for it.
This is our show.
We're not even live right now.
Just go for it, isn't?
Speaker 2 (31:15):
the gh.
We're not even live right now.
Just go for it.
Isn't the gold, the cowboy fromthe beginning?
Speaker 1 (31:23):
maybe, but are they like hundreds of years in the?
Speaker 2 (31:27):
future?
Speaker 1 (31:29):
yeah, but he doesn't seem like he's a normal being
yeah, so there's a lot more ofthat kind of stuff going on in
this show where that past thatyou saw with the bombs and the
fallout happening, you'reactually not done with
flashbacks.
That's one of my favoritethings is the timey-wimey-ness.
(31:52):
54% of the people who haveprobably the majority of those
people have actually finishedthe season, too.
Did side with the Lucy vote on.
I play the game the most likeLucy.
I had a very difficult carconversation with my wife about
(32:14):
this, though, because she saidthe same thing.
She said Lucy and I decided tobe playful and just poke at that
a little bit, and there's aquest where she makes a really
dumb good girl decision in oneof the upcoming episodes.
(32:34):
It's one of those decisionswhere, in the video game, it's
like make the super morally goodchoice and fight a hundred
crazy zombies, or make themorally gray choice that's kind
of good and only fight threereally powerful zombies and then
(32:54):
make the bad choice and blowthem all up without having to
fight anybody that kind of thing.
I didn't spoil it, becausethat's not exactly the scenario
I think so she wouldn't havebeen my first choice.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
It probably would have been cool, but I think the
fact that she might be like goodand pure and make the good of
your choice, the fact that shecan she's trained her entire
life to be an assassin, yeahmakes it easier to pick her yeah
(33:28):
, absolutely she is.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
She's the player character yeah for sure, jenny,
as you progress through the tvshow, I want you to promise me
that, whatever episode it iswhere you decide the ghoul is
your guy.
I want you to text me, okay,like episode three, the ghoul is
(33:50):
my guy, or whatever right I.
I just want to.
I want to be able to follow upwith you and if we can include
it in a future episode, that'sgreat.
Yeah, if it's just you and me,that's great too.
I just feel, very without anysurprise in me, that the goal is
your guy I look forward to thatmoment for sure.
(34:14):
The reason we do the gamingpersona podcast is because we
want people to enjoy thepsychology of video games.
I would just like to talk abouthow shows like Fallout help in
doing that.
I don't have anything writtenthis is completely off script
but it's one of those thingswhere I think we imply a lot.
(34:38):
Jenny, on this show and peoplethat have chosen to listen.
This is probably I don't knowhow many people.
This would be the first episodeyou ever get to meet us, but
that's true, hi, it's reallynice to meet you.
Fallout is not our normal kindof game, but it has a lot of the
things in it that our normalgames also have.
(35:00):
So here we are, but I justwhenever a video game that is
already super popular Bethesdais a very lone studio and they
get to put their logo on thelittle TV at the front of the
episode.
So now people that don't knowwhat Bethesda is are like what
(35:24):
is a Bethesda?
And then the gamer on the couchwith them.
The day we should watch thevosh, I was like it's bethesda,
mom.
And then now you have aconversation like what do they
do?
They do the elder scrolls, theydo starfield, they do fallout
(35:44):
and that that set of sentencesright.
There is so many potentialconversations.
So what do you think on thatwhole video games becoming tv
shows, like connecting people,like?
What are your thoughts on that,jenny?
Speaker 2 (36:03):
I think I said it early in the episode.
I love that we are reachingdifferent audiences with video
game lore and people areappreciating it and people are
like they're binge watching a TVshow based on a video game
(36:24):
that's been around for manyyears.
That is a lot of people'sfavorite video game.
It's just such a cool thing towitness and to have my friends
who I know would never play thisvideo game talk to me about the
show and we can commiserateabout it and talk about the
characters.
We don't normally get to talkabout this kind of stuff my
(36:46):
non-gamer friends and I and it'scool, it's fun.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
It definitely builds that connection yeah, so
bringing in people that are notnormally a part of video games,
but also the tv show givesscripted moments so that you can
get the very best out of thestory, and when you play a video
game, you don't get to thestory until you earn it.
(37:10):
Yeah, and that's not just askill check, that's also a time
investment, and when you have aTV show you can make a judgment
about.
I have 45 minutes of free timeright now.
I can watch this show and Iknow that there will be an
(37:34):
initiation, a challenge and aresolution, and then that will
lead to the next episode Invideo games.
If I have 45 minutes, I'm notguaranteed that anything
meaningful is going to happen.
Right as I just discovered withmy 85 hours to finish Final
Fantasy VII Rebirth, there wereso many 45 minutes where nothing
(37:57):
meaningful happened, includingmy three days straight of just
doing a jump rope game as a frog.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Oh no, I have no idea what you're talking about and
I'm just doing a jump rope gameas a frog.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Oh no, I have no idea what you're talking about and
I'm glad, oh, you'll knowsomeday.
I really just hope that, out ofpeople that listen to the show
or people that want gaming to bea healthy part of their fun in
life, that it helps createconversations and make gaming
(38:33):
seem fun and cool and innovativeand part of what mythology in a
modern world would look like.
Yeah, it doesn't have to havedragons and wizards in order to
be.
It doesn't have to be fantasyto be a mythology, it can.
(38:53):
It can be industrial, it can besteampunk, it can be cyberpunk,
it could have any kind ofpumpkin and it turns out.
In fact, if wrestling is modernmythology, it can have cm punk.
Oh, I don't know what thatmeans.
I don't.
That's the name of a wrestler,jenny okay yeah, I'm proud that
(39:18):
I saidthat, yeah, take that all right.
So I just man, it's such a goodtime to be a gamer right now,
and I remember when this wholejourney was like not even
started by me.
I remember one particular timethat I called a game player a
(39:41):
gamer in a supervision sessionthat I was writing and someone
asked why I was being insultingto them it's a bad word and I
was just so confused in that andnow it's I would be a lot more
confident and be like that'swrong, that word.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Yeah, that's not a derogatory term.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
We can be geeks, we can be gamers.
It's just we got to take thewords that describe our identity
and embrace them.
Agreed, let's go on the returnand get back to our daily lives.
Take our next step forward,final part of our conversation
today Getting back into ourvault when everything is safe
(40:29):
and cozy.
Don't get too comfortable.
There might be some weirdscience experiments in this one.
So, jenny, what are you takingwith you In the aftermath Of
this conversation, or thefallout of this conversation?
Fantastic, I'm just.
You planted the little seed ofthis conversation.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Fantastic, I'm just I .
You planted the little seed inmy head that the goal is my guy
and I cannot wait to figure outwhen the goal is my guy.
That's all I can think aboutright now.
I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Two right now Homework Okay.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
We recorded really late, so I don't think that's
happening.
I'm going to go pass out, butyeah, somewhere.
Okay, we recorded really late,so I don't think that's
happening.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
I'm gonna go pass out , but yeah, somewhere, jenny not
here so if these conversationssound fun to you and you're
looking for some great people toplay online games with, check
out aie at aie-guildorg.
And I have one last quest foreveryone to collect for the day
Make your Vault-Tec payments ontime and continue your journey.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
See you next time.
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