September 3, 2025 • 43 mins
Dr. Gamology, Doritos, and Marcus explore the psychological motivations behind gaming and how our digital personas reflect our real-world needs and desires.
• Why we play games: socialization, escapism, stress relief, and validation
• The concept of psychological flow and how it explains gaming enjoyment
• How content vaulting and free-to-play models frustrate longtime players
• Gaming as parents and finding ways to share the experience with children
• Changes in content creation styles across generations
• Building community through scheduled gaming nights
• Finding time to play as busy adults with responsibilities
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Thanks for Listening, and Continue The Journey!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Gaming Persona podcast.
This is the show that exploreswho we become when we play games
, whether you're saving kingdoms, leading epic raids or just
vibing in cozy indie worlds.
Join me, dr Gamology and mygood friend Marcus as we search
for all the ways gaming andpersonal growth collide.
Grab your controllers and let'scontinue the journey Now.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Well, that's a shock there.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Continue the journey now.
Well, that's a shock there.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yeah, you know, what else is really funny is I'm on
the Epic Game Store, which yousaid you'd never go to because
you only wanted one launcher.
Well, it's only because ofFortnite it automatically loads
up, you still said I will onlyever play anything that's on
Steam.
How many podcasts did you andNick do that?
Speaker 1 (00:44):
you said that 412 okay, oh I can admit it's not
here and this is a differentshow, so, marcus thank goodness
cheat on steam, all he wantswell, it's not.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
It's not about cheating on steam, it's.
My son plays fortnite and theonly place you can play fort
that's not a PlayStation or anXbox is on the Epic Game Store
on a computer.
So, anyway, so during thepodcast I'm going to give you
guys a little like backstagenews, like during the show.
I peruse through Steam and Epicjust to see what free games are
(01:24):
, what's what's out there, andwhile we're talking, because it
kind of gives me something likemight something might spark
conversation, which this did soI always look and see oh, let's
see what the free games are.
So I'm scrolling through.
I'm scrolling through.
It says destiny 2 is free andit says the base game and what
(01:48):
is involved in the base game andbasically all it says is you
can go to the lost city that'sit.
It doesn't not all say itbasically tells you all the dlcs
you can buy, but that's it.
It doesn't not all say itbasically tells you all the DLCs
you can buy, but that's it.
(02:08):
It does not tell you whatyou're getting for free the base
game.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
But we still don't know what the base game is, Not
the DLCs.
Obviously it's the part of it.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
that's free Right.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
But I wish it would say hey, jump in and do the epic
, which was actually terribleLightfall expansion for free,
you know what I mean.
Like, but that's not the basegame.
That's an expansion, okay, butwhat's the base game?
The base game actually wasdeleted, right.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
So all you get is up through the new light, can't the
initial new light stuff, andthat's all you get.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
So it's not free, it is free.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
That part is free.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
It's free to try.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
No, you're not trying it, you're playing it.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
You are saying that people who only play that part
are not actually destiny players, and I don't like that.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Gatekeeping, marcus, no I'm not saying that at all.
I just want to know what thewhat comes with this and and I'm
searching here and it doesn'ttell me.
You can be a mcflurry, and afrosty.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
I think that the part of destiny 2 that you get for
free in the base game is likewhen you're walking through the
aisle at target and the ladyhands you a triscuit in a little
plastic cup and it's like yougotta buy the box if you want to
enjoy the triscuits.
But this is just to let youknow what it would taste like if
you had a bunch of it.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Yeah, pretty much yeah and yeah, and I played the
snot out of this game and Iloved this game and then you
abandoned swotor to play destinyswotor.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Okay, but destiny is now swotor no, it's still
destiny, it's just, you've movedon no, no, no swotor destiny is
become no because, it's an mmothat stands for star wars.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
The old republic, by the way man, it's gonna be a
tough show for me this week.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Anyway, it's gonna be keep going, marcus.
I love what you're doing.
Keep going, so continue thejourney yes, oh, it's over
already no, I meant likeactually continue the journey.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
No, so what I'm saying is is destiny has become
Star Wars, the old republic inthe sense of content.
So so for years and years theywere releasing one expansion a
year and destiny got to itsculmination of the final shape,
which was like the 10-year sagacoming to an end like the big,
(04:51):
big, big bad.
That's been kind of like thepuppet master doing all the
things is here, you're gonnabeat them, the game's over and I
I beat the campaign for thefinal shape.
I never did the bonus contentor did the raid, because the way
there's always a raid tied tothe storyline and really, truly,
(05:15):
if you have people to do theraid, that's where you get all
like the real ending of thestory and you find out more like
lore stuff.
But when that when light fallhappened, which was the
expansion before the final shape, it was kind of terrible.
(05:36):
I grinded the shit out of itand it was almost for nothing.
And then bungie started goingthrough all their bullshit and I
kind of just got turned off bythe game.
And I've played the final shapebecause I pre-ordered it and I
wanted to finish the saga, butwhen it was over I almost just
(05:57):
closed the door to it.
It was just like I don't careabout the next story.
I already finished the storyand now I mean how?
How long ago was the final shape?
Two years, two years ago, maybe, something like that?
Yeah, so I should click on.
(06:17):
I got it right here release 6,4, 24.
So a year ago, year to, or amonth, year and two months ago
that ended.
And now they're coming out withnew like grind, like grind,
expansions, like just grind forgear, grind for gear, grind for
gear, grind for power level, andthere's no real content to it.
(06:42):
And that's where my commentabout it becoming swotors.
That's kind of what swotor hasdone.
You know, they keep the swotorkeeps releasing new seasons that
focus on old content and theyraise the gear score, but
they're not actually giving youany more story, so they're like
keep playing the game disagreewell, the next story isn't
(07:07):
coming out until holiday of 2025and then the next slated one
after that is, I think they said, summer or fall of 26 okay
Speaker 1 (07:21):
that's two pieces of content in under 365 days,
marcus they haven't released anystory content in a year well,
when was the last time we playedsort, or have you done all the
new stuff yet?
Speaker 2 (07:35):
well, I threw 7.7 I think I'm up to seven, no,
you're not okay then, but mypoint is that destiny and swotor
are on the same path they're onthe same maintenance level for
content coming out and updatesand and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Yes, yeah, so we're, I'm saying the same thing, it's
just coming out different.
It was a long-winded version,yeah, and I'm.
So.
I'm back on the.
Like I said I I peruse on thesestores, look for free games and
like, look at what's a deal,blah, blah, blah.
And that destiny thing came up,and it was.
I was thinking about it becausethe game is not free.
(08:20):
Like you might be able to doyour entry, like the I call it
the tutorial, but after thatthere's so much content you have
to buy.
It's hundreds of dollars to buyin, to have all the content.
Your friends are like, hey,we're gonna go do this dungeon.
Oh, I don't have that.
Well, just go get it.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Oh, it's 30 for that expansion oh yeah, that's how
they're still trying to makemoney well, right, but what I
guess for me?
Speaker 3 (08:50):
but okay, I'm gonna go to swotor.
When swotor comes out withtheir new content, they just
tell you subscribe, basicallypay 20 and you can have all the
content.
Up until today.
Where they're like, hey, we'regonna bundle all of our content
into one.
Where destiny does not do that,it would be nice if they said
(09:11):
hey, you're new, you can haveall the content that we have
available.
Pay a hundred bucks and you getall of the content instead they
don't.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
All the non, all the non-vaulted content.
There's no content I never gotto play because it's vaulted and
never will be released again.
Right, that's a whole differentstory for a different time.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
I have a terrible story about an EA game that I
want to love.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Okay, what's the terrible story about the EA game
you want to love?
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Which game is it?
Yeah, I played a Star Warsvideo game this week.
Everybody, which one?
Yeah, so I actually downloadedStar Wars Battlefront 2 on my
PS5 two different times.
Two, and yeah, both times.
It would not let me log intothe PlayStation Network Like no
(10:01):
profile.
And this is sad because Ibought the elite trooper edition
back at launch.
So I have the the two costumesthat are impossible to have.
One is for kylo ren, one is forrey, and they're from the last
jedi, and I really like beingable to choose costumes in video
games.
It's one of my big motivations.
(10:22):
I like completing the costumelist, so it really bothered me
that I couldn't sign in, becausethat's the system I pre-ordered
the game on.
That's the one place where Ihave the costumes that are
impossible to get.
Would I use them?
Probably not, but I have themand they're in the costume list
and they're clickable.
So then I downloaded it on myps5 in the living room and same
(10:46):
thing.
So I was like this is not aglitch, something is wrong with
my ea account.
So then I was like, wait, Imerged my ea account with my
xbox game pass account, so letme download the game on ea play
or whatever they call that app,because it's connected to.
Game Pass Right and so Idownloaded it on my PC and I can
(11:11):
play matches.
I can connect online.
I am Dr Gameology in there, butI did not pre-order the game on
Xbox, so I do not have mycostumes and also none of my
classes are leveled up.
None of my cards on theirabilities are purple.
And I did play a match and mybig moment was I got to play as
(11:34):
han solo and I shot emperorpalpatine in the face and he
died, and that was veryfulfilling, canon breaking
moment right after.
Right after that, darth maul andboba fett tag teamed me and it
didn't feel good, but I killedemperor palpatine with on solo's
plaster I shot first.
(11:55):
Good, so so that was fun.
I also downloaded a bunch ofother games that like.
I download Overwatch againYesterday, I made sure I updated
Dead by Daylight and I madesure Fortnite is on both of my
PS5s, and I've been playingPersona 3 Reload as my stream
(12:16):
game for about three streamsstraight.
I'm really enjoying it.
Now Like it's the time for meto finally do Persona 3, and I'm
enjoying it.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
But Yep, go ahead Just watching you play Persona 3
, your facial expressions arestill the same, are still the
same, but they are asenthusiastic as they have been
when you've played, been playingExhibition 33.
So you're enjoying it, you'rehaving fun.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Yeah, it's so good, like I'm putting in the title
that it's a completion run, sowe're not doing high level,
we're just doing whatever ittakes to get as many
achievements as possible on theway through the game, and that,
like I don't have any shameabout.
Like I have a guide.
I like generally know ahead oftime what direction I'm going
(13:13):
for certain things, so I canplan out when I'm in a dungeon
like what level do I need to bebefore I leave, how much money
do I need to have before I leave, and so that's like lowering
the pressure, because it'sactually lowering the pressure
on playing the game and that'sallowing me to focus more on the
people.
And, doritos, I know you werethere when this happened, so I
(13:36):
guess I'm just telling Marcusand our listeners, but something
happened on my Twitch channelthat has never happened before.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
What was that?
I gotta know.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Let everybody, let everybody know somebody bought a
book on your thing becauseyou're a world-renowned author I
didn't bring that up and that'snot the correct answer.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
He wrote a book again .
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Oh my freaking god, everybody no so I've had
students come on before.
I've had people in my treatmentprograms that are being
supervised by me come on.
I've had people from thepodcast and people from
conferences come on and they'vebeen in the chat and been like,
oh, this is what you do, this isinteresting.
But never have I ever had aperson come in that said I saw
(14:25):
you at a panel two years ago andI was one of the people that
asked you a question.
Ooh, I missed that part.
Yeah, so I'll give a shout outto them because their username
is freaking amazing Pavlov's MooCow.
Oh, it's Moo Cow.
(14:48):
Yeah, they saw me at Megacon twoyears my final fantasy 14 panel
and said that they reallyenjoyed persona 3 and when they
saw that's what I was playing,they decided to finally catch
one of my streams and they werehappy they were there and just
another person in the community.
That's been really active andreally fun to get to meet this
week and that's why I do it,like everybody that knows what
(15:11):
Twitch is and wants to come seeme.
That's why I do it.
It's because it's another placefor me to be actively engaged
in a new game, learn new thingsor an old game and show what I
love about it, but get todirectly talk with the people.
That I think will benefit frommy ideas that video games make
us awesome and we should enjoyplaying them.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
We should.
So with that.
So on that kind of note whenyou play a game, do you do it
more for a release of stress ora an endorphin kick, or do you
do it more for a sense ofescapism?
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Um, no, I'm broken doritos oh, I'm broke already.
This is gonna be no, no, no,like, oh, my gosh, like I'm
gonna have to be on the couchand the world has to be my
therapist right now for me toanswer that question I don't.
(16:10):
I don't play games for thatkind of stuff, because I was
kind of raised.
Yeah, I was raised in a way thatruined fun, in the sense that,
like, I have fun, but wanting tohave fun is not bring, is not
what brings me to an activity.
(16:31):
I have to have a goal thatfeels like it matters to me, and
that goal is not fun becausethat's not a good reason to do
anything.
And I know that I'm sayingnonsense, because the psychology
of video games is aboutexperiencing fun and then
(16:54):
reflecting on it and making thatfun have an even more
meaningful sense of experience.
And I know that.
I know that, but, knowingsomething, up here I'm pointing
at my brain with all my pointerfingers two pointer fingers,
well, and my middle fingers, seeyou flipping me off no no, yes,
(17:15):
I was yeah, you are number oneon both the left and the right
side what was I saying I?
I talked to people about havingfun, but my biggest moment of
therapeutic growth will comewhen I truly believe that I'm
allowed to have fun too.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Okay.
Marcus what about for you?
Why?
Speaker 3 (17:45):
escapism or for the funsies.
So there's two parts to this,because one does it like I can't
say one without the other.
So I would say the main reasonwhy I play video games for
socialization.
Right, right, like I love beingsocial, like there's nothing
better than being in a raidgroup and being the one to wipe
(18:07):
us all the time and cause painto everybody around you, but
it's, it's a social aspect Ilove.
That's why I love streaming somuch, or playing video games and
discord and you, even if you'renot watching me play video
games, just hanging out withpeople while I'm playing games.
It makes it more fun.
(18:28):
I think streaming is fun forthat reason and that's why you
know that's the main reason.
But the other reason, as I getolder, I play video games
because I work 15 hour days, 12hour days, nine hour days, some
days eight hour days, and youknow, and I run my kids
(18:48):
everywhere, I do whatever I canto help my wife.
I do all these things but younever it's going to sound really
stupid all these things, butyou never it's going to sound
really stupid.
You never hear hey, great jobtoday.
Or you never hear like you knowyou matter.
And when I play Elden Ring asan example, cause I've been
(19:09):
playing it.
You know I am the guy.
Yeah, I die a lot and yeah, ITwitch and like do it.
But when I successful I'm likeI fucking did that and I did it
and it's I.
I guess it's escapism.
I go to that world to beappreciate, to be able to
appreciate myself and be themain character okay, fair enough
(19:32):
.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Fair enough, what about?
you so for me it's a little.
Both depends on what's beengoing on for the day.
A lot of times it's just for ashort-term escape from the
responsibilities.
I mean being in my career.
I am a corporate director levelresponsibilities without the
(19:56):
title.
So I'm having to interact withpeople, coach junior
professionals, work hand in handwith you, know the hourly
workforce and try to be aspositive as I can as often as I
can, because one thing I've seenthroughout my professional
(20:16):
career To be as positive as Ican as often as I can, because
One thing I've seen throughoutmy professional career Is a Do
as I say, not as I do from a lotof leadership.
So trying to be it, do itdifferently, do it more how I
would like to be treated If Iwas in their position.
So I do take that escapeBecause I'm tired of being the
(20:37):
leader all the time.
I want to be just the guy thatmashes the glowy buttons and
shoots things or burns things orwhatever, if you match them
well enough.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
You're still the guy, doritos, and you are the guy 90
of the raid teams that I was apart of doritos was.
He may not have been the leader, you were the leader I just
happened to know, marcus, you'rereally bad when you're not the
leader, like I.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
I've told you this before on the podcast you have
to be the leader.
No, that's not true.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
That's how I see you I have raid members that would
disagree with that but I meanthat with love, like that's why
you play tank but, still I.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
You know I wait, I'm gonna put this out there.
You know why I put I switchedthe tank.
Do you want me to tell you?
Speaker 1 (21:29):
why?
Because you fired the personthat was ruining the chemistry
of the group.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
No.
And he was a tank Because Ididn't want to have to figure
out the rotation for a DPScharacter Buttons are hard yeah,
oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
So I'm going to play another role that has buttons,
and then they're going to takehalf of the buttons away and
make you angry.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Oh my gosh, Can we talk about final fantasy 14?
Really quick, sure what wasthat?
Speaker 2 (21:59):
yeah, latest update.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
What do tell, do tell they have removed the timer
countdown on fire and icealignment for black mage, so I
no longer have to be smart toplay black mage and the whoever,
the game producer, is justreleased a letter.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Yeah, yoshi p just came out with a letter and
basically said hey, all of youmodders that have been doing a
great job and have created anawesome community of modding for
the game to make it better,you're banned yeah, well, I
don't mod the game, so I'm okay,yeah I just supposed to mod
mmos people, that's calledcheating, no that's you have to
(22:41):
have mods in world of warcraft.
Why?
Speaker 2 (22:44):
because the game is so much better with them so
again, you don't have to havethem if you're but if you're
gonna raid in world of warcraftyou have to have mods.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
There's certain ones, that's a requirement so is so
like you're.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
When you say mod, there is like a program that I
used to run when I was savageraiding that measures your dps
for your whole team star parse,so tour still has.
Yeah, is that modding?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
No, Technically yes.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Oh yeah, I told you that.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Because it's a representation of your damage or
healing or a threat, Jen.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
It is a version of modding.
Yeah, because if you use like ameasuring tool in Final Fantasy
XIV and it's on your screen,you'll get banned.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Right, and also you can't talk about it in your VODs
and stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Oh, so it's Fight Club, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
But also, you really can't succeed at the boss fight
without it either.
That amount of feedback is thedetail you actually need to have
.
He just glazed over what yousaid well, that's because
calling something fight club isactually something that happens
in my house like every day, soit didn't face me but I can see
(24:17):
where Doritos is talking abouthis escape from being the leader
from work and home, and I feelthe same way.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
And when you just play a game, you can kind of
just disconnect and win or lose.
It just feels good, exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
That disconnect is largely because you're able to
experience psychological flow.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
What's psychological flow?
Speaker 1 (24:50):
It's a balance between skill and challenge.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah, so the flow state happens when you're in a
perfect balance, but youactually feel anxiety or boredom
based on if your skill is toohigh, challenge is too low or
challenges too high, skill istoo low.
Sure, and this actuallyexplains how anxiety and boredom
work in real life.
It's not a video game conceptat all how anxiety and boredom
work in real life.
It's not a video game conceptat all.
And once you start tounderstand that, you can
(25:21):
understand what draws you tovideo games better.
But you can also understand howyou navigate life if you have
something like or approachingADHD, or if you have an anxiety
condition and things stress youout or make you panic.
Panic is just an extreme form ofanxiety where you believe you
have no ability to change orovercome the situation and
(25:42):
you're stuck in it, right, sothat's when people have panic
attacks and I've had meltdownsand crying fits while I'm
streaming in video games becausethe bosses are too hard, like
when we were doing Terror fromBeyond Nightmare the last thing
that I ever attempted in SWTORrepeatedly before I dropped out
of the game, like I just had formonths and months this belief
(26:06):
that the math inside that gameat the nightmare level was
unfair and it caused me to loseall sense of enjoyment in the
game and I left because Icouldn't experience flow,
because all I felt was panic anddespair.
You're not allowed to win.
I know that's dreadful.
(26:29):
Chris, but it made sense.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Yeah Well, thanks for explaining that, because I was
curious.
I'm low skill, high difficultyevery day.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
You are very difficult, Marcus.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
I know.
I was building a set of stairsat work and I got to a point
where it turned the corner and Iliterally sat there for 20
minutes staring at it, talkingto myself going how am I going
to do this to make it right?
And after about I don't knowabout 10 minutes, like the light
bulb went off, ping.
(27:03):
Oh, I know what I'm going to doand I just did it.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
You're like the Fellowship of the Ring in Moria
where Gandalf is, like I knowI've been here before.
Which direction do we go, yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Yeah, but you know it's hard because as I get older
I'm finding it harder andharder to have time to play
video games, and I think that'show so, because I'm so beat from
work and like running with thekids.
(27:39):
By the time literally 1030 atnight comes, I'm toast and now
my kids are going to bed laterso I want to hang out with them
and I'm finding it harder andharder to turn on my computer at
10 o'clock at night.
And harder to turn on mycomputer at 10 o'clock at night
(28:01):
because my alarm goes off at 520.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
And man, when I'm tired I can't think you're
implying you could think whenyou're not tired I think it all
comes down when you're old andyou're busy to actually putting
stuff on the calendar, like allthree of us have made a
deliberate choice to talk aboutvideo games instead of play
(28:28):
video games, and, true, thatcauses us to play games less
than we actually would okay, sowell.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
So, so it causes you to do you play any mobile games,
though?
No, no, why not?
Speaker 1 (28:46):
it doesn't just want my money and they're not good.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Okay, both very valid answers.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
I just for me.
I don't do it because I don'tlike staring at my phone, like I
like talking on my phone, but Ihate staring at my phone.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
And that's a generational thing, because
people younger than us do notlike talking on their phone.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Well, there's a reason why they talk to their
phone, not talking on theirphone.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Right, there's a reason why mobile games make
billions and billions andbillions of dollars every year.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
And why is that reason, Marcus?
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Because it's easy and accessible and everybody has
one of these in their hand andwe're all terrible accountants
with no patience, right, likespend 99 cents and you don't
have to wait three minutes totry again.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (29:47):
oh my god, speaking of no patience, okay, my son
watches.
Oh shit, some minecraftstreamer guy.
God damn it, preston.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
No, I was, oh preston , yes, yes, I know I'm aware of
preston, because jackson wantsit too okay, great content
creator, super wholesome, like I.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
My son loves him.
He doesn't swear, he's he Idon't know, he's a better role
model than you, marcus oh thatone hurts the knife, the fork,
just the gaming persona used tobe exactly how you're describing
this person and then wewelcomed you into it.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yes, now I drink margaritas and it's all gone to
hell.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
So but the thing is is when he, when he, my son
watches his videos, every six toseven seconds the screen
changes movement.
It almost makes me sick becausethey're like the, the way the,
like the way they edit it.
(30:58):
It's every six to seven secondsit's a new, like a new frame,
like he's going down this tunnel.
In six seconds he's furtherdown the tunnel and he's further
, and then he's whipping andit's like I don't know if it's
like an attention thing, but itfucking makes me sick.
Not literally makes me sick,but I'm just like whoa dude,
let's go play the real gamebecause of the way they clip it
(31:24):
yeah well, you'll do the adhdgeneration mar well, he's not
the only one that createscontent in that manner.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
All of them do His buddy Unstoppable does kind of
the same thing and actually,because my son watches, a lot of
other content creators that doMinecraft and a couple other
build crafting games, minecraftand a couple other build
(31:57):
crafting games.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
That is the current style of content creation for a
lot of them.
Well, it's an attention thing,oh yeah, it's something that
does something to the kid'sbrain, where it they never get
bored watching it.
Oh no, they get bored.
They just get bored watching it.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Oh no, they get bored .
They just get bored in 1.7seconds instead of 17 seconds,
Right.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
And, speaking of Minecraft, like the BuildCraft,
I watched a guy once and it waslike a 45-minute video and it
was on like fast-forward.
But the guy like started on ablank slate and he built this
crazy city and it was just onsuper fast forward because in
the in the comments it said ittook him like six months to make
that city, but he did it in 40minutes so what is your?
Speaker 2 (32:39):
is your son like getting tips and and and how
to's out of it?
Like no, he just watches itbecause he finds it interesting,
okay, so so again, my son's alittle, a little bit older than
yours, so he's taking a lot ofthose tips and stuff and you
know, he's making thecobblestone generators, he's
making a lot of things that thathe sees these guys doing, which
(32:59):
is quite entertaining to towatch, because it was like I'll
come home from work.
Hey, dad, dad, I need to showyou this.
In minecraft, I built a thinglike okay, let's see the thing,
what thing did you build?
oh you know, where did you learnhow to do that?
And now, most time I've seenhim watching the video, so I'm
(33:19):
aware of where he's getting thecontent from, but it's quite
interesting that just bywatching and he's able to
replicate a lot of it you knowit's funny.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
You say that it's true because my son, I got home
and rhino's six going on sevenin a month and he, he comes up
and he wrote it down and he goesdaddy, we need to go on my
playstation right now.
I said playstation.
Why, what do we got to do?
You got to right now.
I said PlayStation.
Why, what do we got to do?
You got to do this.
(33:50):
And he hands me this paper andit's in his writing.
It says RTX, 100%.
Daddy, what's RTX?
I was like well, I can't dothat on your PlayStation.
Why, it's something that's inDaddy's computer.
Can we do it on your computer?
Sure dude.
So I went downstairs, turned onthe computer and I put it on
(34:15):
and it took Minecraft from 8-bitto like real.
It was incredible and when hegot into a world that had RTXtx
enabled he went whoa and likethe blocks.
It was wild to see it andobviously I screen record him
(34:38):
and half the time he doesn'teven know I do and it makes such
awesome content.
But he, he was blown.
So he got that from one ofthose guys Preston, unspeakable,
something like that and hewrote it down himself and waited
for me to get home to show himhow to turn on RTX.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
How does that feel Marcus.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
I love seeing him excited for things.
So we have the undisputed titlein my house and the
Intercontinental title.
But he only lets me go againsthim for the Intercontinental
title and it's basically everyday the belt is up on the line
and I won it.
I won it yesterday and he doesnot take it well when I win and
(35:31):
when I tell you, when we're onthe trampoline I go no holes
barred, like he gets straight upsuplex city right like I don't
like obviously I'm not hittinghim, but I'm definitely like I
power bomb him on the trampolineand he loves it.
So like wrestling is just, it'sa part of our day to day.
And this inter, he won theintercontinental title tonight
(35:55):
and Him saying what he said tome before bed is the same
feeling I get when he is playinga game that he's super excited
about and he says to me daddy,you want to know what's awesome?
I said what's that?
He goes, I'm theIntercontinental title.
Good night.
(36:17):
I'm the Intercontinentalchampion and he's sleeping with
it in his bed because he thinksI'm going to try to pin him
while he's sleeping.
Oh my gosh.
And I told him I was going to,and he says you can't, I'm
leaving.
Oh my god.
And I told him.
I was gonna and he says youcan't, I'm the champion, I have
to accept your match.
I said I'll call adam pierce,but anyway it makes me happy to
(36:38):
see him excited about things.
You know, anytime somebody'sexcited about something you
gotta just roll with it excitedabout something, you gotta just
roll with it.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Yeah, you don't want to yuck on?
Speaker 3 (36:55):
people's yum.
That's the why wait?
What did you just say, did youdon't want to yuck on somebody's
yum?
Speaker 1 (36:59):
yeah, if someone says this is yum and you say no,
it's yuck, you have created adisconnect for them that is
going to be a part of yourrelationship for a long time.
Moving forward.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Oh well, it happens I guess I don't know, but anyway.
So did you guys see anythingfrom Gamescom?
Speaker 2 (37:23):
No, I missed the stuff this year.
I missed the stuff this year.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
So later on go look at.
So there's like a monitor that,like the screen, like pops out.
It's the wildest thing.
What brand do you remember?
Speaker 2 (37:40):
No, of course not.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
What do you mean?
The screen pops out.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
I'm going to see if I can find a link to it but no,
I've been incrediblydisconnected from Gamescom, just
busy with work.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
How's that gone?
Well, our treatment program isgrowing.
We got a whole bunch of newfunding and we're going to be
able to help a lot of people inmy home state of Florida.
And just really excited.
We have a team of people atKindBridge that are going to be
(38:19):
answering the phones for peoplewho have gambling issues, and
we're also answering callsacross the whole country too and
connecting people withtreatment with people in our
whole KindBridge network.
So it's growing really fast now.
Lots of really cool projects.
I have one update that I justcan't give tonight, but when it
(38:48):
happens I'm so excited to talkabout it.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Oh man and nobody on the show knows, because it's
ridiculous, but spoilers,spoilers do you guys find you
enjoy gaming during the day orat night, or anytime makes you
happy, anytime?
Speaker 1 (39:13):
I don't play video games at night.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
I play games at night .
The only time I get to playgames during the day is if I'm
playing with Ryan in the days ifI'm playing with Ryan.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Actually, I have to change what my answer is because
we just started community nightin the.
Dr Gamology ecosystem withDiscord on Sunday night.
So it's not a streaming thing,and streaming is the number one
place where I get to play videogames.
This is not streamed.
It's not about recordingcontent.
It's just everyone in thecommunity that has a Final
Fantasy XIV character and if youwant to join us, you can make
(39:56):
one.
We'll match your level.
We'll do content that matcheswhat you're able to get into,
and it's been so fun.
We've done it for two weeks.
I think this week we're goingto actually, I'm going to be
able to do it this week, butthere is a week coming up where
I'm going to be at HalloweenHorror Night, so it could still
happen.
(40:16):
Just, I won't be the onerunning it.
I hope it still happens withoutme, though, because that's the
kind of I think the communitycan still exist, even if Just
save us.
Yeah.
Or we could let Jenny have thebaton and then she can give
group lead to jessica.
But it's been a lot of fun.
(40:41):
We've done some alliance raids,we've done some normal raids,
which are just the single bossencounters, and it's been so fun
to play some of the old contentwhere I wasn't a subscriber
because it's new to me and someof these boss fights are really
interesting and you don't get toplay them anymore because
everyone's just so focused onDawn Trail stuff, the current
(41:04):
expansion Well, that happens,yeah, it's just so sad because
it's such an expansive game andthen for all this great content
to have no purpose anymore, it'ssad.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Well, the way of the MMO expansion I was just going
to say that Isn't that?
Speaker 3 (41:27):
what isn't that?
What mmos do is?
Speaker 1 (41:30):
they come out with content, people grind it for
however long, and then, when thecontent dries up, they either
stop playing or they just dodailies well yes that's true,
but star wars, the old republic,sealed republic, was my mmo for
10 years and it was my firstone and it had 10 raids in it
(41:51):
and those raids all had fivebosses, ish, one of them had
four, I think one of them hadsix, but like they had five.
So you do those fights so muchthey just your talent at them
becomes a part of who you are.
And in final fantasy 14 there'sso many bosses that I believe
(42:15):
that feeling is not literallypossible for me to have yeah,
but for me, star wars therepublic.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
as my mmo, I didn't like I played it to raid, but
really, truly, truly, the storycontent was incredible With
eight guys.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
We were there to Raid .
Speaker 3 (42:39):
Yeah, after I beat all the stories.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Except for the trooper story, because that
one's lame.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
You know, don't pick on the trooper.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
I just yucked your yum.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
No, you yucked all over his yum.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Somebody's yum.
Somebody loves the trooperstory?
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Oh, there are many people who love the trooper
story.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
Well, people love the trooper story because that guy
wrote it.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
They probably like Mass Effect.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Continue the journey Ha ha, ha, ha ha ha, that guy
wrote it.
They probably like Mass Effect.
Continue the journey.
Welcome to the Gaming Persona podcast.
This is the show that exploreswho we become when we play games
, whether you're saving kingdoms, leading epic raids or just
vibing in cozy indie worlds.
Join me, dr Gamology and mygood friend Marcus as we search
for all the ways gaming andpersonal growth collide.
Grab your controllers and let'scontinue the journey Now.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Well, that's a shock there.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Continue the journey now.
Well, that's a shock there.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yeah, you know, what else is really funny is I'm on
the Epic Game Store, which yousaid you'd never go to because
you only wanted one launcher.
Well, it's only because ofFortnite it automatically loads
up, you still said I will onlyever play anything that's on
Steam.
How many podcasts did you andNick do that?
Speaker 1 (00:44):
you said that 412 okay, oh I can admit it's not
here and this is a differentshow, so, marcus thank goodness
cheat on steam, all he wantswell, it's not.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
It's not about cheating on steam, it's.
My son plays fortnite and theonly place you can play fort
that's not a PlayStation or anXbox is on the Epic Game Store
on a computer.
So, anyway, so during thepodcast I'm going to give you
guys a little like backstagenews, like during the show.
I peruse through Steam and Epicjust to see what free games are
(01:24):
, what's what's out there, andwhile we're talking, because it
kind of gives me something likemight something might spark
conversation, which this did soI always look and see oh, let's
see what the free games are.
So I'm scrolling through.
I'm scrolling through.
It says destiny 2 is free andit says the base game and what
(01:48):
is involved in the base game andbasically all it says is you
can go to the lost city that'sit.
It doesn't not all say itbasically tells you all the dlcs
you can buy, but that's it.
It doesn't not all say itbasically tells you all the DLCs
you can buy, but that's it.
(02:08):
It does not tell you whatyou're getting for free the base
game.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
But we still don't know what the base game is, Not
the DLCs.
Obviously it's the part of it.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
that's free Right.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
But I wish it would say hey, jump in and do the epic
, which was actually terribleLightfall expansion for free,
you know what I mean.
Like, but that's not the basegame.
That's an expansion, okay, butwhat's the base game?
The base game actually wasdeleted, right.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
So all you get is up through the new light, can't the
initial new light stuff, andthat's all you get.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
So it's not free, it is free.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
That part is free.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
It's free to try.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
No, you're not trying it, you're playing it.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
You are saying that people who only play that part
are not actually destiny players, and I don't like that.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Gatekeeping, marcus, no I'm not saying that at all.
I just want to know what thewhat comes with this and and I'm
searching here and it doesn'ttell me.
You can be a mcflurry, and afrosty.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
I think that the part of destiny 2 that you get for
free in the base game is likewhen you're walking through the
aisle at target and the ladyhands you a triscuit in a little
plastic cup and it's like yougotta buy the box if you want to
enjoy the triscuits.
But this is just to let youknow what it would taste like if
you had a bunch of it.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Yeah, pretty much yeah and yeah, and I played the
snot out of this game and Iloved this game and then you
abandoned swotor to play destinyswotor.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Okay, but destiny is now swotor no, it's still
destiny, it's just, you've movedon no, no, no swotor destiny is
become no because, it's an mmothat stands for star wars.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
The old republic, by the way man, it's gonna be a
tough show for me this week.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Anyway, it's gonna be keep going, marcus.
I love what you're doing.
Keep going, so continue thejourney yes, oh, it's over
already no, I meant likeactually continue the journey.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
No, so what I'm saying is is destiny has become
Star Wars, the old republic inthe sense of content.
So so for years and years theywere releasing one expansion a
year and destiny got to itsculmination of the final shape,
which was like the 10-year sagacoming to an end like the big,
(04:51):
big, big bad.
That's been kind of like thepuppet master doing all the
things is here, you're gonnabeat them, the game's over and I
I beat the campaign for thefinal shape.
I never did the bonus contentor did the raid, because the way
there's always a raid tied tothe storyline and really, truly,
(05:15):
if you have people to do theraid, that's where you get all
like the real ending of thestory and you find out more like
lore stuff.
But when that when light fallhappened, which was the
expansion before the final shape, it was kind of terrible.
(05:36):
I grinded the shit out of itand it was almost for nothing.
And then bungie started goingthrough all their bullshit and I
kind of just got turned off bythe game.
And I've played the final shapebecause I pre-ordered it and I
wanted to finish the saga, butwhen it was over I almost just
(05:57):
closed the door to it.
It was just like I don't careabout the next story.
I already finished the storyand now I mean how?
How long ago was the final shape?
Two years, two years ago, maybe, something like that?
Yeah, so I should click on.
(06:17):
I got it right here release 6,4, 24.
So a year ago, year to, or amonth, year and two months ago
that ended.
And now they're coming out withnew like grind, like grind,
expansions, like just grind forgear, grind for gear, grind for
gear, grind for power level, andthere's no real content to it.
(06:42):
And that's where my commentabout it becoming swotors.
That's kind of what swotor hasdone.
You know, they keep the swotorkeeps releasing new seasons that
focus on old content and theyraise the gear score, but
they're not actually giving youany more story, so they're like
keep playing the game disagreewell, the next story isn't
(07:07):
coming out until holiday of 2025and then the next slated one
after that is, I think they said, summer or fall of 26 okay
Speaker 1 (07:21):
that's two pieces of content in under 365 days,
marcus they haven't released anystory content in a year well,
when was the last time we playedsort, or have you done all the
new stuff yet?
Speaker 2 (07:35):
well, I threw 7.7 I think I'm up to seven, no,
you're not okay then, but mypoint is that destiny and swotor
are on the same path they're onthe same maintenance level for
content coming out and updatesand and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Yes, yeah, so we're, I'm saying the same thing, it's
just coming out different.
It was a long-winded version,yeah, and I'm.
So.
I'm back on the.
Like I said I I peruse on thesestores, look for free games and
like, look at what's a deal,blah, blah, blah.
And that destiny thing came up,and it was.
I was thinking about it becausethe game is not free.
(08:20):
Like you might be able to doyour entry, like the I call it
the tutorial, but after thatthere's so much content you have
to buy.
It's hundreds of dollars to buyin, to have all the content.
Your friends are like, hey,we're gonna go do this dungeon.
Oh, I don't have that.
Well, just go get it.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Oh, it's 30 for that expansion oh yeah, that's how
they're still trying to makemoney well, right, but what I
guess for me?
Speaker 3 (08:50):
but okay, I'm gonna go to swotor.
When swotor comes out withtheir new content, they just
tell you subscribe, basicallypay 20 and you can have all the
content.
Up until today.
Where they're like, hey, we'regonna bundle all of our content
into one.
Where destiny does not do that,it would be nice if they said
(09:11):
hey, you're new, you can haveall the content that we have
available.
Pay a hundred bucks and you getall of the content instead they
don't.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
All the non, all the non-vaulted content.
There's no content I never gotto play because it's vaulted and
never will be released again.
Right, that's a whole differentstory for a different time.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
I have a terrible story about an EA game that I
want to love.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Okay, what's the terrible story about the EA game
you want to love?
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Which game is it?
Yeah, I played a Star Warsvideo game this week.
Everybody, which one?
Yeah, so I actually downloadedStar Wars Battlefront 2 on my
PS5 two different times.
Two, and yeah, both times.
It would not let me log intothe PlayStation Network Like no
(10:01):
profile.
And this is sad because Ibought the elite trooper edition
back at launch.
So I have the the two costumesthat are impossible to have.
One is for kylo ren, one is forrey, and they're from the last
jedi, and I really like beingable to choose costumes in video
games.
It's one of my big motivations.
(10:22):
I like completing the costumelist, so it really bothered me
that I couldn't sign in, becausethat's the system I pre-ordered
the game on.
That's the one place where Ihave the costumes that are
impossible to get.
Would I use them?
Probably not, but I have themand they're in the costume list
and they're clickable.
So then I downloaded it on myps5 in the living room and same
(10:46):
thing.
So I was like this is not aglitch, something is wrong with
my ea account.
So then I was like, wait, Imerged my ea account with my
xbox game pass account, so letme download the game on ea play
or whatever they call that app,because it's connected to.
Game Pass Right and so Idownloaded it on my PC and I can
(11:11):
play matches.
I can connect online.
I am Dr Gameology in there, butI did not pre-order the game on
Xbox, so I do not have mycostumes and also none of my
classes are leveled up.
None of my cards on theirabilities are purple.
And I did play a match and mybig moment was I got to play as
(11:34):
han solo and I shot emperorpalpatine in the face and he
died, and that was veryfulfilling, canon breaking
moment right after.
Right after that, darth maul andboba fett tag teamed me and it
didn't feel good, but I killedemperor palpatine with on solo's
plaster I shot first.
(11:55):
Good, so so that was fun.
I also downloaded a bunch ofother games that like.
I download Overwatch againYesterday, I made sure I updated
Dead by Daylight and I madesure Fortnite is on both of my
PS5s, and I've been playingPersona 3 Reload as my stream
(12:16):
game for about three streamsstraight.
I'm really enjoying it.
Now Like it's the time for meto finally do Persona 3, and I'm
enjoying it.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
But Yep, go ahead Just watching you play Persona 3
, your facial expressions arestill the same, are still the
same, but they are asenthusiastic as they have been
when you've played, been playingExhibition 33.
So you're enjoying it, you'rehaving fun.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Yeah, it's so good, like I'm putting in the title
that it's a completion run, sowe're not doing high level,
we're just doing whatever ittakes to get as many
achievements as possible on theway through the game, and that,
like I don't have any shameabout.
Like I have a guide.
I like generally know ahead oftime what direction I'm going
(13:13):
for certain things, so I canplan out when I'm in a dungeon
like what level do I need to bebefore I leave, how much money
do I need to have before I leave, and so that's like lowering
the pressure, because it'sactually lowering the pressure
on playing the game and that'sallowing me to focus more on the
people.
And, doritos, I know you werethere when this happened, so I
(13:36):
guess I'm just telling Marcusand our listeners, but something
happened on my Twitch channelthat has never happened before.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
What was that?
I gotta know.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Let everybody, let everybody know somebody bought a
book on your thing becauseyou're a world-renowned author I
didn't bring that up and that'snot the correct answer.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
He wrote a book again .
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Oh my freaking god, everybody no so I've had
students come on before.
I've had people in my treatmentprograms that are being
supervised by me come on.
I've had people from thepodcast and people from
conferences come on and they'vebeen in the chat and been like,
oh, this is what you do, this isinteresting.
But never have I ever had aperson come in that said I saw
(14:25):
you at a panel two years ago andI was one of the people that
asked you a question.
Ooh, I missed that part.
Yeah, so I'll give a shout outto them because their username
is freaking amazing Pavlov's MooCow.
Oh, it's Moo Cow.
(14:48):
Yeah, they saw me at Megacon twoyears my final fantasy 14 panel
and said that they reallyenjoyed persona 3 and when they
saw that's what I was playing,they decided to finally catch
one of my streams and they werehappy they were there and just
another person in the community.
That's been really active andreally fun to get to meet this
week and that's why I do it,like everybody that knows what
(15:11):
Twitch is and wants to come seeme.
That's why I do it.
It's because it's another placefor me to be actively engaged
in a new game, learn new thingsor an old game and show what I
love about it, but get todirectly talk with the people.
That I think will benefit frommy ideas that video games make
us awesome and we should enjoyplaying them.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
We should.
So with that.
So on that kind of note whenyou play a game, do you do it
more for a release of stress ora an endorphin kick, or do you
do it more for a sense ofescapism?
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Um, no, I'm broken doritos oh, I'm broke already.
This is gonna be no, no, no,like, oh, my gosh, like I'm
gonna have to be on the couchand the world has to be my
therapist right now for me toanswer that question I don't.
(16:10):
I don't play games for thatkind of stuff, because I was
kind of raised.
Yeah, I was raised in a way thatruined fun, in the sense that,
like, I have fun, but wanting tohave fun is not bring, is not
what brings me to an activity.
(16:31):
I have to have a goal thatfeels like it matters to me, and
that goal is not fun becausethat's not a good reason to do
anything.
And I know that I'm sayingnonsense, because the psychology
of video games is aboutexperiencing fun and then
(16:54):
reflecting on it and making thatfun have an even more
meaningful sense of experience.
And I know that.
I know that, but, knowingsomething, up here I'm pointing
at my brain with all my pointerfingers two pointer fingers,
well, and my middle fingers, seeyou flipping me off no no, yes,
(17:15):
I was yeah, you are number oneon both the left and the right
side what was I saying I?
I talked to people about havingfun, but my biggest moment of
therapeutic growth will comewhen I truly believe that I'm
allowed to have fun too.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Okay.
Marcus what about for you?
Why?
Speaker 3 (17:45):
escapism or for the funsies.
So there's two parts to this,because one does it like I can't
say one without the other.
So I would say the main reasonwhy I play video games for
socialization.
Right, right, like I love beingsocial, like there's nothing
better than being in a raidgroup and being the one to wipe
(18:07):
us all the time and cause painto everybody around you, but
it's, it's a social aspect Ilove.
That's why I love streaming somuch, or playing video games and
discord and you, even if you'renot watching me play video
games, just hanging out withpeople while I'm playing games.
It makes it more fun.
(18:28):
I think streaming is fun forthat reason and that's why you
know that's the main reason.
But the other reason, as I getolder, I play video games
because I work 15 hour days, 12hour days, nine hour days, some
days eight hour days, and youknow, and I run my kids
(18:48):
everywhere, I do whatever I canto help my wife.
I do all these things but younever it's going to sound really
stupid all these things, butyou never it's going to sound
really stupid.
You never hear hey, great jobtoday.
Or you never hear like you knowyou matter.
And when I play Elden Ring asan example, cause I've been
(19:09):
playing it.
You know I am the guy.
Yeah, I die a lot and yeah, ITwitch and like do it.
But when I successful I'm likeI fucking did that and I did it
and it's I.
I guess it's escapism.
I go to that world to beappreciate, to be able to
appreciate myself and be themain character okay, fair enough
(19:32):
.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Fair enough, what about?
you so for me it's a little.
Both depends on what's beengoing on for the day.
A lot of times it's just for ashort-term escape from the
responsibilities.
I mean being in my career.
I am a corporate director levelresponsibilities without the
(19:56):
title.
So I'm having to interact withpeople, coach junior
professionals, work hand in handwith you, know the hourly
workforce and try to be aspositive as I can as often as I
can, because one thing I've seenthroughout my professional
(20:16):
career To be as positive as Ican as often as I can, because
One thing I've seen throughoutmy professional career Is a Do
as I say, not as I do from a lotof leadership.
So trying to be it, do itdifferently, do it more how I
would like to be treated If Iwas in their position.
So I do take that escapeBecause I'm tired of being the
(20:37):
leader all the time.
I want to be just the guy thatmashes the glowy buttons and
shoots things or burns things orwhatever, if you match them
well enough.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
You're still the guy, doritos, and you are the guy 90
of the raid teams that I was apart of doritos was.
He may not have been the leader, you were the leader I just
happened to know, marcus, you'rereally bad when you're not the
leader, like I.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
I've told you this before on the podcast you have
to be the leader.
No, that's not true.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
That's how I see you I have raid members that would
disagree with that but I meanthat with love, like that's why
you play tank but, still I.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
You know I wait, I'm gonna put this out there.
You know why I put I switchedthe tank.
Do you want me to tell you?
Speaker 1 (21:29):
why?
Because you fired the personthat was ruining the chemistry
of the group.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
No.
And he was a tank Because Ididn't want to have to figure
out the rotation for a DPScharacter Buttons are hard yeah,
oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
So I'm going to play another role that has buttons,
and then they're going to takehalf of the buttons away and
make you angry.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Oh my gosh, Can we talk about final fantasy 14?
Really quick, sure what wasthat?
Speaker 2 (21:59):
yeah, latest update.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
What do tell, do tell they have removed the timer
countdown on fire and icealignment for black mage, so I
no longer have to be smart toplay black mage and the whoever,
the game producer, is justreleased a letter.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Yeah, yoshi p just came out with a letter and
basically said hey, all of youmodders that have been doing a
great job and have created anawesome community of modding for
the game to make it better,you're banned yeah, well, I
don't mod the game, so I'm okay,yeah I just supposed to mod
mmos people, that's calledcheating, no that's you have to
(22:41):
have mods in world of warcraft.
Why?
Speaker 2 (22:44):
because the game is so much better with them so
again, you don't have to havethem if you're but if you're
gonna raid in world of warcraftyou have to have mods.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
There's certain ones, that's a requirement so is so
like you're.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
When you say mod, there is like a program that I
used to run when I was savageraiding that measures your dps
for your whole team star parse,so tour still has.
Yeah, is that modding?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
No, Technically yes.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Oh yeah, I told you that.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Because it's a representation of your damage or
healing or a threat, Jen.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
It is a version of modding.
Yeah, because if you use like ameasuring tool in Final Fantasy
XIV and it's on your screen,you'll get banned.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Right, and also you can't talk about it in your VODs
and stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Oh, so it's Fight Club, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
But also, you really can't succeed at the boss fight
without it either.
That amount of feedback is thedetail you actually need to have
.
He just glazed over what yousaid well, that's because
calling something fight club isactually something that happens
in my house like every day, soit didn't face me but I can see
(24:17):
where Doritos is talking abouthis escape from being the leader
from work and home, and I feelthe same way.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
And when you just play a game, you can kind of
just disconnect and win or lose.
It just feels good, exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
That disconnect is largely because you're able to
experience psychological flow.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
What's psychological flow?
Speaker 1 (24:50):
It's a balance between skill and challenge.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah, so the flow state happens when you're in a
perfect balance, but youactually feel anxiety or boredom
based on if your skill is toohigh, challenge is too low or
challenges too high, skill istoo low.
Sure, and this actuallyexplains how anxiety and boredom
work in real life.
It's not a video game conceptat all how anxiety and boredom
work in real life.
It's not a video game conceptat all.
And once you start tounderstand that, you can
(25:21):
understand what draws you tovideo games better.
But you can also understand howyou navigate life if you have
something like or approachingADHD, or if you have an anxiety
condition and things stress youout or make you panic.
Panic is just an extreme form ofanxiety where you believe you
have no ability to change orovercome the situation and
(25:42):
you're stuck in it, right, sothat's when people have panic
attacks and I've had meltdownsand crying fits while I'm
streaming in video games becausethe bosses are too hard, like
when we were doing Terror fromBeyond Nightmare the last thing
that I ever attempted in SWTORrepeatedly before I dropped out
of the game, like I just had formonths and months this belief
(26:06):
that the math inside that gameat the nightmare level was
unfair and it caused me to loseall sense of enjoyment in the
game and I left because Icouldn't experience flow,
because all I felt was panic anddespair.
You're not allowed to win.
I know that's dreadful.
(26:29):
Chris, but it made sense.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Yeah Well, thanks for explaining that, because I was
curious.
I'm low skill, high difficultyevery day.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
You are very difficult, Marcus.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
I know.
I was building a set of stairsat work and I got to a point
where it turned the corner and Iliterally sat there for 20
minutes staring at it, talkingto myself going how am I going
to do this to make it right?
And after about I don't knowabout 10 minutes, like the light
bulb went off, ping.
(27:03):
Oh, I know what I'm going to doand I just did it.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
You're like the Fellowship of the Ring in Moria
where Gandalf is, like I knowI've been here before.
Which direction do we go, yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Yeah, but you know it's hard because as I get older
I'm finding it harder andharder to have time to play
video games, and I think that'show so, because I'm so beat from
work and like running with thekids.
(27:39):
By the time literally 1030 atnight comes, I'm toast and now
my kids are going to bed laterso I want to hang out with them
and I'm finding it harder andharder to turn on my computer at
10 o'clock at night.
And harder to turn on mycomputer at 10 o'clock at night
(28:01):
because my alarm goes off at 520.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
And man, when I'm tired I can't think you're
implying you could think whenyou're not tired I think it all
comes down when you're old andyou're busy to actually putting
stuff on the calendar, like allthree of us have made a
deliberate choice to talk aboutvideo games instead of play
(28:28):
video games, and, true, thatcauses us to play games less
than we actually would okay, sowell.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
So, so it causes you to do you play any mobile games,
though?
No, no, why not?
Speaker 1 (28:46):
it doesn't just want my money and they're not good.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Okay, both very valid answers.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
I just for me.
I don't do it because I don'tlike staring at my phone, like I
like talking on my phone, but Ihate staring at my phone.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
And that's a generational thing, because
people younger than us do notlike talking on their phone.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Well, there's a reason why they talk to their
phone, not talking on theirphone.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Right, there's a reason why mobile games make
billions and billions andbillions of dollars every year.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
And why is that reason, Marcus?
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Because it's easy and accessible and everybody has
one of these in their hand andwe're all terrible accountants
with no patience, right, likespend 99 cents and you don't
have to wait three minutes totry again.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (29:47):
oh my god, speaking of no patience, okay, my son
watches.
Oh shit, some minecraftstreamer guy.
God damn it, preston.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
No, I was, oh preston , yes, yes, I know I'm aware of
preston, because jackson wantsit too okay, great content
creator, super wholesome, like I.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
My son loves him.
He doesn't swear, he's he Idon't know, he's a better role
model than you, marcus oh thatone hurts the knife, the fork,
just the gaming persona used tobe exactly how you're describing
this person and then wewelcomed you into it.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yes, now I drink margaritas and it's all gone to
hell.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
So but the thing is is when he, when he, my son
watches his videos, every six toseven seconds the screen
changes movement.
It almost makes me sick becausethey're like the, the way the,
like the way they edit it.
(30:58):
It's every six to seven secondsit's a new, like a new frame,
like he's going down this tunnel.
In six seconds he's furtherdown the tunnel and he's further
, and then he's whipping andit's like I don't know if it's
like an attention thing, but itfucking makes me sick.
Not literally makes me sick,but I'm just like whoa dude,
let's go play the real gamebecause of the way they clip it
(31:24):
yeah well, you'll do the adhdgeneration mar well, he's not
the only one that createscontent in that manner.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
All of them do His buddy Unstoppable does kind of
the same thing and actually,because my son watches, a lot of
other content creators that doMinecraft and a couple other
build crafting games, minecraftand a couple other build
(31:57):
crafting games.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
That is the current style of content creation for a
lot of them.
Well, it's an attention thing,oh yeah, it's something that
does something to the kid'sbrain, where it they never get
bored watching it.
Oh no, they get bored.
They just get bored watching it.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Oh no, they get bored .
They just get bored in 1.7seconds instead of 17 seconds,
Right.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
And, speaking of Minecraft, like the BuildCraft,
I watched a guy once and it waslike a 45-minute video and it
was on like fast-forward.
But the guy like started on ablank slate and he built this
crazy city and it was just onsuper fast forward because in
the in the comments it said ittook him like six months to make
that city, but he did it in 40minutes so what is your?
Speaker 2 (32:39):
is your son like getting tips and and and how
to's out of it?
Like no, he just watches itbecause he finds it interesting,
okay, so so again, my son's alittle, a little bit older than
yours, so he's taking a lot ofthose tips and stuff and you
know, he's making thecobblestone generators, he's
making a lot of things that thathe sees these guys doing, which
(32:59):
is quite entertaining to towatch, because it was like I'll
come home from work.
Hey, dad, dad, I need to showyou this.
In minecraft, I built a thinglike okay, let's see the thing,
what thing did you build?
oh you know, where did you learnhow to do that?
And now, most time I've seenhim watching the video, so I'm
(33:19):
aware of where he's getting thecontent from, but it's quite
interesting that just bywatching and he's able to
replicate a lot of it you knowit's funny.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
You say that it's true because my son, I got home
and rhino's six going on sevenin a month and he, he comes up
and he wrote it down and he goesdaddy, we need to go on my
playstation right now.
I said playstation.
Why, what do we got to do?
You got to right now.
I said PlayStation.
Why, what do we got to do?
You got to do this.
(33:50):
And he hands me this paper andit's in his writing.
It says RTX, 100%.
Daddy, what's RTX?
I was like well, I can't dothat on your PlayStation.
Why, it's something that's inDaddy's computer.
Can we do it on your computer?
Sure dude.
So I went downstairs, turned onthe computer and I put it on
(34:15):
and it took Minecraft from 8-bitto like real.
It was incredible and when hegot into a world that had RTXtx
enabled he went whoa and likethe blocks.
It was wild to see it andobviously I screen record him
(34:38):
and half the time he doesn'teven know I do and it makes such
awesome content.
But he, he was blown.
So he got that from one ofthose guys Preston, unspeakable,
something like that and hewrote it down himself and waited
for me to get home to show himhow to turn on RTX.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
How does that feel Marcus.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
I love seeing him excited for things.
So we have the undisputed titlein my house and the
Intercontinental title.
But he only lets me go againsthim for the Intercontinental
title and it's basically everyday the belt is up on the line
and I won it.
I won it yesterday and he doesnot take it well when I win and
(35:31):
when I tell you, when we're onthe trampoline I go no holes
barred, like he gets straight upsuplex city right like I don't
like obviously I'm not hittinghim, but I'm definitely like I
power bomb him on the trampolineand he loves it.
So like wrestling is just, it'sa part of our day to day.
And this inter, he won theintercontinental title tonight
(35:55):
and Him saying what he said tome before bed is the same
feeling I get when he is playinga game that he's super excited
about and he says to me daddy,you want to know what's awesome?
I said what's that?
He goes, I'm theIntercontinental title.
Good night.
(36:17):
I'm the Intercontinentalchampion and he's sleeping with
it in his bed because he thinksI'm going to try to pin him
while he's sleeping.
Oh my gosh.
And I told him I was going to,and he says you can't, I'm
leaving.
Oh my god.
And I told him.
I was gonna and he says youcan't, I'm the champion, I have
to accept your match.
I said I'll call adam pierce,but anyway it makes me happy to
(36:38):
see him excited about things.
You know, anytime somebody'sexcited about something you
gotta just roll with it excitedabout something, you gotta just
roll with it.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Yeah, you don't want to yuck on?
Speaker 3 (36:55):
people's yum.
That's the why wait?
What did you just say, did youdon't want to yuck on somebody's
yum?
Speaker 1 (36:59):
yeah, if someone says this is yum and you say no,
it's yuck, you have created adisconnect for them that is
going to be a part of yourrelationship for a long time.
Moving forward.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Oh well, it happens I guess I don't know, but anyway.
So did you guys see anythingfrom Gamescom?
Speaker 2 (37:23):
No, I missed the stuff this year.
I missed the stuff this year.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
So later on go look at.
So there's like a monitor that,like the screen, like pops out.
It's the wildest thing.
What brand do you remember?
Speaker 2 (37:40):
No, of course not.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
What do you mean?
The screen pops out.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
I'm going to see if I can find a link to it but no,
I've been incrediblydisconnected from Gamescom, just
busy with work.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
How's that gone?
Well, our treatment program isgrowing.
We got a whole bunch of newfunding and we're going to be
able to help a lot of people inmy home state of Florida.
And just really excited.
We have a team of people atKindBridge that are going to be
(38:19):
answering the phones for peoplewho have gambling issues, and
we're also answering callsacross the whole country too and
connecting people withtreatment with people in our
whole KindBridge network.
So it's growing really fast now.
Lots of really cool projects.
I have one update that I justcan't give tonight, but when it
(38:48):
happens I'm so excited to talkabout it.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Oh man and nobody on the show knows, because it's
ridiculous, but spoilers,spoilers do you guys find you
enjoy gaming during the day orat night, or anytime makes you
happy, anytime?
Speaker 1 (39:13):
I don't play video games at night.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
I play games at night .
The only time I get to playgames during the day is if I'm
playing with Ryan in the days ifI'm playing with Ryan.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Actually, I have to change what my answer is because
we just started community nightin the.
Dr Gamology ecosystem withDiscord on Sunday night.
So it's not a streaming thing,and streaming is the number one
place where I get to play videogames.
This is not streamed.
It's not about recordingcontent.
It's just everyone in thecommunity that has a Final
Fantasy XIV character and if youwant to join us, you can make
(39:56):
one.
We'll match your level.
We'll do content that matcheswhat you're able to get into,
and it's been so fun.
We've done it for two weeks.
I think this week we're goingto actually, I'm going to be
able to do it this week, butthere is a week coming up where
I'm going to be at HalloweenHorror Night, so it could still
happen.
(40:16):
Just, I won't be the onerunning it.
I hope it still happens withoutme, though, because that's the
kind of I think the communitycan still exist, even if Just
save us.
Yeah.
Or we could let Jenny have thebaton and then she can give
group lead to jessica.
But it's been a lot of fun.
(40:41):
We've done some alliance raids,we've done some normal raids,
which are just the single bossencounters, and it's been so fun
to play some of the old contentwhere I wasn't a subscriber
because it's new to me and someof these boss fights are really
interesting and you don't get toplay them anymore because
everyone's just so focused onDawn Trail stuff, the current
(41:04):
expansion Well, that happens,yeah, it's just so sad because
it's such an expansive game andthen for all this great content
to have no purpose anymore, it'ssad.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Well, the way of the MMO expansion I was just going
to say that Isn't that?
Speaker 3 (41:27):
what isn't that?
What mmos do is?
Speaker 1 (41:30):
they come out with content, people grind it for
however long, and then, when thecontent dries up, they either
stop playing or they just dodailies well yes that's true,
but star wars, the old republic,sealed republic, was my mmo for
10 years and it was my firstone and it had 10 raids in it
(41:51):
and those raids all had fivebosses, ish, one of them had
four, I think one of them hadsix, but like they had five.
So you do those fights so muchthey just your talent at them
becomes a part of who you are.
And in final fantasy 14 there'sso many bosses that I believe
(42:15):
that feeling is not literallypossible for me to have yeah,
but for me, star wars therepublic.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
as my mmo, I didn't like I played it to raid, but
really, truly, truly, the storycontent was incredible With
eight guys.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
We were there to Raid .
Speaker 3 (42:39):
Yeah, after I beat all the stories.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Except for the trooper story, because that
one's lame.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
You know, don't pick on the trooper.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
I just yucked your yum.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
No, you yucked all over his yum.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Somebody's yum.
Somebody loves the trooperstory?
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Oh, there are many people who love the trooper
story.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
Well, people love the trooper story because that guy
wrote it.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
They probably like Mass Effect.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Continue the journey Ha ha, ha, ha ha ha, that guy
wrote it.
They probably like Mass Effect.
Continue the journey.
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