January 15, 2024 • 58 mins
This week, we're uncovering the layers of Final Fantasy, the iconic gaming series, revealing not just its influence on the industry but also its psychological tapestry that weaves into the fabric of our daily lives.
Navigating the rich history of Japanese RPGs, we stroll down memory lane with Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy, reminiscing about their classic mechanics and the evolution of their narratives. These games didn't just entertain; they provided a framework for personal growth and understanding, meshing perfectly with the psychological concepts that fascinate us so deeply. And it doesn't stop at nostalgia; we delve into "Against the Storm," a game that masterfully combines strategy with time management, challenging players to thrive in a demanding, ever-changing world.
But our exploration is more than reminiscence and gaming tactics—it's a call to academia. We shine a spotlight on the scant research covering the newer Final Fantasy titles, especially the MMOs, and their nuanced portrayal of gender roles, encouraging a closer look at their cultural significance. As we bid you farewell until next week, we empower you to join the ranks of adventurers in the Final Fantasy universe, assuring newcomers and veterans alike that their journey will be as accessible as it is enchanting.
If you would like to support the show and help us unlock additional possibilities for future episodes and projects, this can now be done through Patreon!
You can watch us play games LIVE and join our communities to get more connection from every episode:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Welcome to the Gaming Persona Podcast.
This is a show that exploreswho we become when we play games
.
I'm your host, Dr Gamology,from YouTube and online
classrooms across the country,and I'm joined by two of my best
friends for my gaming journey,Jenny LeBron and Jean Wong.
Friends, how are we doing thisweek?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I'm doing fantastic and I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
I'm doing all right.
It's winter here, finally.
All right, you're buried inwhat?
Buried in snow?
We got, like a photo, snow, soit's yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Oh, that sounds terrible, Jean.
How long does it take to clearout snow from your house?
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Over an hour and it destroys my back, oh no.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Snow is fun for 30 minutes, and then it's over.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
I don't even know what I would do with my day if I
had an extra hour of dealingwith the weather.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
The house of cards would crumble.
Don't tell my work, but Isubtract that time from my
workday.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Okay, I will not tell your work, but you just got to
hope that your work did not hearabout our little operation
we're doing on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I was on one of that works from home three days a
week.
I'm pretty sure making my housenot buried is a prerequisite of
the job.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
I think there is something there it sounds logic.
Yeah, if you spend time in youroffice clearing your desk,
emptying a trash can, making acup of coffee, it's really
important to simulate that kindof stuff in your work from home
day, and tidying up yourworkspace is something you would
(02:03):
do at work.
Yeah, do it, jean.
I approve.
All right, before we getstarted.
We did get started, but beforewe really get started, where can
our listeners find us?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
You can find my photography page on Instagram at
jlibronphotography orjlibronphotographycom, if you're
curious about what NernyPershing's photos look like.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
I am Dr Gamology.
You can find me on YouTube.
I do videos and I do shorts andI do the podcast.
We are playing live throughFinal Fantasy 14.
From the beginning, we've done10 of those streams so far.
That's where you can find me.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
The Game of Persona can be found on Apple Podcasts,
spotify, google and most annualspodcasts can be found.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Thank you for supporting the gaming persona,
Jenny.
What are we talking about thisweek?
Speaker 2 (03:02):
We are jumping into a series of episodes where we
take things back to basics onsome of our favorite game
franchises.
We're starting, of course, withthe Psychology of Final Fantasy
.
This is a Part 1 episode.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yes, this is Part 1.
Just like with my favorite MMO,final Fantasy 14, we can't
promise that we know how manyparts this is going to have.
It could have the next 200episodes, it could be the next
three, who knows?
It really depends how we feelabout continuing to talk about
(03:42):
it.
Let's go ahead and do ourordinary world, where we share
everyday life through our games,all right.
Jenny and Jean, how is yourweek?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
I'm excited about it today.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Wait what.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I'm excited about it.
Today, I have something toshare.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Oh my goodness, Jenny , you go first then, because I
guess my preloaded ridicule ofyou is not necessary this week.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Maybe I don't know.
I have been very into theWitcher 3 this past week, super
into it, but not as a gameplayer myself, as a tandem game
player with my boy.
He's the one that's actuallyplaying, but I'm the one that's
guiding him through and tellinghim what we should do next and
(04:35):
where we should focus our time.
It's been so much fun.
I'm fully in.
We spent hours over the weekendjust playing the game,
exploring around, doing quests,playing Gwent.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Old plan.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
You're playing the Witcher 3, wild Hunt.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Yes, on PS5.
It's so much fun.
In fact I'm itching to finishthe podcast so we can go play
again.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Oh, I'm sorry, Jenny.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
All right, definitely pursue the Gwent storyline.
It's not the card game.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Oh, there's a Gwent storyline.
I did not know that.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Yeah, you get inducted into the deeper society
of Gwent players.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
It's like Yu-Gi-Oh oh my God, this looks so cool.
Let me love it even more.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I can't stand Gwent.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I love that game so much.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
It's a complete distraction of everything I care
about.
I'm glad that Jean and I are onthis episode to talk with you
about this, because we're likethe two different the angel and
the demon on your shoulder here.
I feel like I'm so excited.
That's such a good game for youto be playing.
(05:54):
Also, the way you're playing itthat is a really common thing
that I hear people talk about isthere's so many great games as
far as story goes, especiallywhen the story is choice based,
which the Witcher 3 definitelyis that it's really cool to have
(06:16):
something that's mildlycinematic but you're also owning
the story together.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yeah, when we have the quick decide moments it's
very nerve-wracking, but almostalways I err on the side of dark
.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
The side of dark, the side of dark.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Oh man, I am a very doing what's right version of
Geralt.
Actually, jean, the lastepisode that we did together, or
maybe two of them ago Jenny, Iam near certain that you were
not on this episode, but, jean,you said something about
Geralt's alignment and Iremember saying that Geralt is
(07:00):
largely a projection of theplayer.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
That is the case in the game version.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah, when you're reading a book, you can only
project so much into thecharacter that the author
created.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Yeah, we just had a quest where it was like a
werewolf storyline and webasically had a choice of
whether or not to let thewerewolf kill this girl because
she was doing shady stuff, orkill the werewolf, and I would
(07:38):
have let him kill her.
We ended up killing thewerewolf, so it's fine.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
But the werewolf was going to do the world a service.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
By killing the shady girl.
I know, yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know.
It was a complicated.
Whoever's done that quest willunderstand.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Jenny, would it make you excited to know that what we
are talking about with the roleof choice and moral development
is exactly what my chapter inthe psychology of the Witcher is
about.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Fantastic.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
I love it yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So that book should, based on the timelines for when
I contributed for Pokemon andalso for Elden Ring, I really
would guess the Witcher will becoming out in 2024 also.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Sweet.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Just like the gamer's journey right.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Dr Bean, right Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
We should do a Witcher panel at Mega Con next
year.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Jenny, that's a perfect segue.
We are not doing a Witcherpanel at Mega Con this year, but
you know what we are doing atMega Con this year.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I do.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yes, fine, you tell our audience then I'm out.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
No, it's the opposite of that.
I know what we're doing, but Idon't actually know exactly what
we're doing.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yes, and then I'll grade your answer, because
that's my job.
I'm pretty good at it.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
I feel like we're essentially doing our episode
for Mega Con.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Okay, yes, that's exactly what we're doing on
stage at Mega Con is we're goingto be talking about the
psychology behind stories andvideo games like Final Fantasy.
So Final Fantasy is in thetitle, but we aren't limited
just to Final Fantasy.
We're actually there to talkabout story construction and
(09:44):
mythological heroes, journeys,and we're going to actually
share a bit of content from thegamer's journey with the
audience to try to make peoplemore aware of the book and get
excited for it, and hopefully weget our stuff together, have
things like QR codes forpre-orders and stuff.
I'm really hoping that we canstart sharing tangible things
(10:09):
with this book, that was so cool.
Yes, we're running out of time,though it's four weeks away,
five weeks away.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Less than a month.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Yes so that is, it's strangely early this year.
Very, I do not like it.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yes, mega Con is a May event for me and I feel
wronged.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
I think I don't know.
I think it's better because theMay event was always.
It always coincided with what'sthe holiday in May.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Memorial Day Memorial .
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Day weekend and there was already too many people in
Orlando for that weekend.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
The last time they did it, in May, they had the
line to pick up badges runningoutside instead of setting up
ropes inside.
I have no idea why they thoughtthat was a good and lawful good
choice.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Someone almost died and several people needed
medical attention, and I thinkthat might be some of the
rationale of why it became Marchand then now it's February.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yeah, it's also about availability of the people like
.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
So many people this year, jenny, famous people, so
many.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
I know, I know I'm going to be there anyway for my
friend who also has a bookcoming out, or maybe Is there's
actually going to come out,because I'd like to meet them
and ask them what that's like.
Oh, and it's a book, it's aphotography book, so it's all
photos that he's taken at MegaCon throughout the years of the
(11:51):
incredible cosplayers.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Oh, that's so fun.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I can't wait, and so I'm part of his team this year.
I'm so excited.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Cosplayers are some of the coolest people ever.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Agreed Gene.
What have you been up to thisweek?
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Uh-oh, I've been playing against the storm, which
is, in other stuff, a veryinteresting game.
It's a city builder, but it's arogue-like city builder.
So most city builders, you sitthere for dozens of hours and
you just keep growing.
You're say, bigger and bigger.
Right, this one.
You go on little individualmissions that last like an hour
(12:35):
to two hours, cos.
Basically the concept is you'rein this post-apocalyptic
setting where it rains nonstopand there's only one city that
is dry, and so the queen sendsyou out to go build settlements,
to send back supplies back tothe city.
So each level is a series ofmissions essentially, or
(12:59):
objectives essentially, whereit's like you got to send back
50 crates of copper orvegetables or whatever back to
the city.
But yeah, it's a short timelimit because eventually the
queen, if you don't do it intime, the queen just gets fed up
with you and shuts down yourcity and you're fired.
Oh okay, but yeah, it'sinteresting.
(13:22):
So every time you start up anew level, it's what does the
queen want and how do I getthere?
Speaker 1 (13:28):
And what's the gameplay?
Genre or play style?
Speaker 3 (13:32):
It's a city builder and it's.
You put down some buildings,you tell your workers to do
things, but it's, whereas aregular city builder you're
literally doing it.
This one you have to be goaloriented, Like again I say,
post-apocalyptic setting.
So you're in the middle of aforest and you just have to cut
down trees and figure out whatresources are around you.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
That's like the first half of every map in the
classic Warcraft games.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
And so it's.
But yeah, in Warcraft you don'thave a real time limit other
than the enemies possiblybecoming a murder.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
You they're getting stronger and hopefully you're
getting stronger.
Sometimes you should attackquick or sometimes you should
continue growing and get evenstronger.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
In this game it's at the queen wants 50 crates of
vegetables and I'm diggingaround and I can't find proper
ground to put down a farm.
Then that means I got to switchgears and figure out how to buy
vegetables from merchants tosend back as a constant flux of
strategy based on her demands.
It's interesting that way.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Okay, I like it.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
And so, yeah, you fulfill the goals in an hour and
a half, and then it's, thelevel ends, and then they said
you on a new part of the giantPop-apocalyptic forest.
And then, oh, okay, yeah, Ifigure out what's here again
Okay.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
I Haven't heard of.
So what do we play this on?
Is it PC or PlayStation steam.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Yeah, they're working on a console version, but, yeah
, right now it's just on steam.
It is currently, I believe, thehighest-rated so city building
game on steam.
It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
What's the name again ?
Speaker 3 (15:18):
against this storm.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
That's funny, because that sounds like the reason
that our episode couldn't starton time tonight.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Oh true.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Okay, I do have one more ordinary world thing to
share, and this is superexciting because it really is
what the last Close to year ofmy life has been about, maybe,
but definitely the last fivemonths.
We were able to get Acceptedinto the YouTube partner program
(15:52):
this week, so I got the emailon Monday morning and what
happened the breakdown of why isit really is about the gaming
persona.
Going back around three weeksago, I Added the podcast to the
(16:13):
YouTube channel for Dr Gamalogyviya the RSS feed and this is
something that's relatively newto YouTube.
I didn't do it day one, but Igot an email reminding me that
this is something I could do, soI answered it and I spent an
afternoon connecting it andfiguring out the few steps that
(16:33):
I was screwing up, and I got thepodcast on there.
And then, now that the podcastis on there, you see a logo
version of Of all these episodesand I was like, oh, that really
isn't very cool.
I really should get back Todoing the video episodes, and
that's why we're on squadcastright now, because I figured out
(16:55):
how to connect that over to OBSand now we have our video
episodes, and so then I startedputting all the video episodes
up and so that was about fourvideos plus a hundred and
sixteen or so podcast episodesall hitting the channel at once.
(17:17):
Youtube thought that was socool and just started shooting
our episodes via the algorithmall the different topics.
And I was telling Jenny lastweek it was a one-on-one episode
and I was just talking with herabout we're having some
episodes get hundreds andhundreds of listens, better than
(17:39):
anything that ever happened onApple or Spotify.
I'm sharing that in thisepisode because there might be
other podcasters that listen tous and maybe you know as far as
was a good idea to go throughthe steps to add your podcast to
YouTube.
I Was so skeptical that I putit off for months and now it's.
Yes, absolutely.
(18:00):
That is a very smart thing todo.
We just started gettingHundreds of watch hours out of
nowhere that we weren't used toon the channel.
Everyone who is new to ourlittle ecosystem here the doctor
game ology channel and thegaming persona podcast Welcome.
We're excited to meet you.
(18:21):
You're coming in a good timebecause we're really Reviewing a
lot of episodes or making themmore of a nice Entry point to
what we're talking about,because the first 100 episodes
went so deep and specific thatwe had a little bit there.
Personally, I felt what are wegonna do next?
(18:41):
Now we're in the YouTubepartner program.
That really changed.
That really shuffles up YouTube, twitch, facebook those are the
three places our show goes andthat really just shoots YouTube
to definitely the main spot.
I think let's do the call toadventure and get into our topic
(19:06):
for the week.
Alright, jenny and Jean, wehave a basic question to answer,
and that question is what isfinal fantasy?
So let's just spend a momenttalking about that question, why
we're asking it and what is theanswer.
(19:27):
What is final fantasy?
Speaker 3 (19:31):
If you want to get historical on it, it is we do.
Okay, it is the second oldestJapanese RPG series.
It was only beaten by DragonQuest by a year.
Dragon Quest came out of 1986.
The first one, fantasy, cameout 1987.
(19:53):
Yeah, but that combined twogames, basically established the
Japanese RPG genre as we knowit.
Before that there was a bunchof random games that weren't
mega popular, but those two soldmillions and Made it into a
thing.
But, yeah, they established alot of the norms of that series,
(20:15):
of that of the genre.
But they are term-based RPGadventures where you go through
a fantasy world doing quests ina vague Idea of generally
there's a work, there'ssomething threatening the
(20:36):
universe and we, a band of fouror five, three, four or five
heroes, got to go Evil.
Yeah, beat the evil.
Yeah, we gather gear, we fightmonsters, we level up, we
develop Backstories.
The first song fancy.
Did the first song fancy?
(20:57):
Everyone was generic people.
They were warrior or Ninja,like they weren't care or what
else could they be?
Lots of things black black mageage.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yeah, I actually have a black mage, red mage and
white mage from final fantasy,one on my back window.
You know how people have theirfamily stickers.
Those are my family stickers onmy car.
Oh yeah, I love it finalfantasy one is such an amazing
Game.
Even the first time I played itfor real, other than playing it
(21:38):
on my friends consoles inchildhood, because I never owned
a final fantasy game During thetime where I'm a minor, living
in my parents house, so my onlyconnection with Final Fantasy
until the 2000s was playing atFriends house.
And then I played Final Fantasyone all the way through on my
(22:01):
first iPhone and I just fell inlove with that game.
I had already played FinalFantasy 7 at the time, but I
just loved Sitting at school andanytime I'd be in between
classes and had no assignmentsto work on, I'd just be playing
Final Fantasy one.
(22:21):
And that's probably why I amthe way I am, because if you
listen to all these episodes, Ido my best to admit this
whenever I can.
When I'm learning at that timein my life about all these
Psychological theories, but thenI'm playing these specific
games, it's like the ideas werenot Competing with each other
(22:45):
for space in my mind.
It's like they were becoming amutually supportive Series of
concepts.
I'm learning aboutperson-centered counseling and
cognitive behavioral therapyWhile playing Final Fantasy one,
and that's why I'm weird.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Okay, all right, I guess that we jump ahead in
history there.
Now we're talking about somefancy the series, which spans
Dozens of games.
The number games go up to fiveand C16, but there's plenty of
side games, mobile games, boardgames yeah, it runs the gamut.
(23:25):
There's even a VR fishing game.
What?
Yeah, there's a VR fishinggames for five.
Fancy 15 were Noctis, must fate, must face the depths of the
sea.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Can I play this on my meta quest to?
Speaker 3 (23:43):
I'm not sure it was on.
We have it on steam VR?
Oh, not sure.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
PS.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
VR.
Oh yeah, Now I need to do this.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
But yeah, it runs, damn it.
There's gambling games, there'scard game, it's all over.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Jenny, did you just hear a really good episode?
Yeah, we totally need to do agambling episode of the gaming
persona.
Given what I am and also yourwork backstory, it just yeah,
that's a no-brainer, so that isa spoiler everybody.
(24:20):
Eventually we're gonna have tocover gambling and video games,
but not this day, jenny.
That's the wrong franchise.
We could talk triple triad withJean, if you want.
That's even more fun.
It's the card game from FinalFantasy 8 that also is in 14.
(24:42):
So, jean, you said dozens ofgames.
I know that's easily true.
I'm actually doing the math inmy head and wondering with all
the bizarre Extra games thatthere are, has it reached a
hundred?
Speaker 3 (24:58):
I'm not sure.
I guess it might depend on ifyou count some of the redoes.
For instance, the fact I seepixel remasters adds on Six yeah
, yeah, six plus games by itself.
Actually there's a yeah, Iguess the six yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I forget if they included games like mystic quest
in that bundle or not alsothere's dissidia, right, but
when this, when dissidia Nt cameout, there was a mobile game,
opera omnia X or something, andso if we're counting mobile
(25:40):
games, then definitely finalfantasy is.
Oh my gosh, my entire career isdoctor game.
Olgi arguably happened becauseI got to do a presentation about
Final Fantasy.
Brave, exvious, cool, which wasa mobile game that attempted to
Enter in characters from theentire history of Final Fantasy
(26:03):
plus Ariana Grande.
So, oh yeah, and Katy Perry, no, I don't know what you're
talking about right now.
Ariana Grande is a character inFinal Fantasy.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Brave exvious, Jenny yeah they did a collaboration
along.
Like I said, a few years laterthey did one Katy Perry it was
the.
Both of those people had someFantasy-themed music videos and
then they were like, let's justmake that into a character Okay
(26:37):
yeah, you play as them doingwhat fighting there.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
They're just one of your characters in your battle.
Party of five.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Oh, my goodness yeah.
I love that.
Yeah, gary, let's finish.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Katy Perry in this music video is a cyborg and
she's got all kinds of cyborgrelated abilities.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Okay, that's great.
My, honestly, all of myinteraction with Final Fantasy,
I'll say the majority of myaffiliation with Final Fantasy,
is Final Fantasy 14.
As most people know, myintroduction To Final Fantasy
(27:17):
was Final Fantasy Tactics andthen, I'm not a fan of Final
Fantasy Tactics Jenny.
I don't actually have anopinion on it because, again, I
wasn't playing and it was justsomething I saw in passing a few
times and it looked fine.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Okay, so you're watching it.
See, I was playing it and I'mbad, so I think that might be
the difference.
Yeah, and then I played.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Final Fantasy 10 for a day.
How you play that game for onlya day.
It's one of the best stories ofall time.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Okay, so I played it for a day, but then I watched it
another three days.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
So it's a thing that I have with single player games.
I just don't like it.
I love watching people gameplay single player role-playing
games, but Jenny myself, I justget bored so quickly.
I have a question for you andyou don't have to answer it.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
You can like do any hand gesture that you want if
you don't want to answer.
Do you have a good relationshipwith your dad?
Speaker 2 (28:37):
I do now.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Okay, so it's fine, but it's not like fantastic.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Okay, we don't know what to do.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Okay, we don't need to go into that, because now
we're in personal land and Idon't know if we need that to be
in the episode.
The reason I'm asking is whenyou were saying your difference
of not really falling into FinalFantasy 10, my first thing I
thought of is that story is oneof the best stories for the
(29:09):
mythological telling of a sonseeking some moment of atonement
with the father figure, and Notthat they need to forgive their
father.
It's just there's a Powerfulangst to Tetus, that is, and
(29:30):
he's the character that youstart controlling from the
beginning, although there areother amazing characters in the
game and I didn't get that farin that game.
Okay, I was just thinking thatif there are strong feelings in
a father-son relationship, thehypothesis is maybe that story
resonates more Powerfully andearlier in the story.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Yeah, I could see that, but I didn't get to that
part in the story where thatwould have hooked me.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Okay, yeah.
If you only played that day,the best you might have gotten
is like one or two flashbacksabout Blitzballs.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Blitzball.
Final Fantasy is so fun toobecause it does add in non-story
, non-game related elements todistract you but make the game
more fun.
And I don't mean distract in anegative way, I just mean that
this is weird and it'sdefinitely part of the game and
(30:35):
I'm supposed to play it.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Yeah, yeah, one of the best things about a good
Japanese RPG is that they reallyinvest in the world building
and some of these little weirdgames like triple triad and
Blitzball are baked into theworld and it's yeah, this is.
Blitzball is the equivalent ofSoccer in soccer.
(31:04):
Slash football in the world ofSpira.
It's a big deal.
Literally everyone on theplanet cares about it.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Yeah, yeah, that's definitely clear from the get-go
, and Tetus is a major star.
He's the face of their league.
Basically, that's what I gotout of the game.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
Yeah, he's the Michael Jordan.
I guess Jack was the MichaelJordan of the franchise and he
is Toby.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
I'm instantly sad.
Now, five am Workouts,everybody.
That's how you do it, okay.
So what is Final Fantasy?
It's really hard to have afocused answer to that question,
I think.
But it started in the 80s.
(31:52):
2023 saw Final Fantasy 16released on PS5, and it's always
a story About a character whocould become the warrior of
light, seeking to save theirworld from darkness, and it's
(32:12):
always a game that is playedwith the rules of a role-playing
game, meaning your characterstarts at level one or seven in
the case of the Fancy sevenremake always starts a very low
level.
You defeat enemies, whetherit's turn-based or action style
(32:35):
fighting.
You have swords and meleecombat.
Sometimes you have Weapons thatare ranged like bows and guns.
Sometimes you have magic anddifferent characters specialize
in different things.
And when I'm reading up on theearly games and Jean, since you
(32:56):
play a lot of TT RPGs, maybe youcan expand on this but I get a
feeling that for the 1980s youhave muds, multi user dungeons
as a way for people to do D&Dstyle gaming through a computer.
But there might have been adifferent style of game
(33:16):
Enthusiast in the 80s thatdidn't want to type words, they
wanted to see a little bit of afantasy world, and when I look
at those early Final Fantasygames I start instantly thinking
of well, you can't do theadvanced dialogue based questing
(33:37):
like you can in Dungeons andDragons, but maybe this is a
version of D&D that can exist onthe Nintendo entertainment
system.
Mm-hmm, that you do go intocombat, you have your party of
four.
That just feels to me like avery, very TT RPG kind of thing
the party of four workingtogether and you all have
(34:00):
different classes, so you're notthe exact same thing, and so I
feel like it's a way to carry onsome of that early gaming
heritage into an electronicbased format.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Yeah, it's definitely one of the first Examples of
that.
There were some earlier in.
I believe.
Some of the very first RPGsWere earlier, like 83, 82 ish,
where, if you heard of theseries wizardry, they are
first-person dungeon crawlexperiences.
(34:35):
You don't really have a bigexpanse of overworld like you do
in a Final Fantasy.
It's a you're in a dungeon,your, your, your party, are just
going around trying to getdeeper and deeper into the
dungeon and, yeah, you make somechoices along the way.
It's a different Experience.
I've got that.
(34:56):
It replicates that feel of theTTRPG but in a very what's the
word?
Distilled fashion, because someof those early D&D adventurers
words just about you're going toa dungeon and you fight until
you find the dragon and then youkill the dragon.
(35:16):
It's replicating thatexperience.
Yeah, those things were very upto the GM to make up a story to
wrap around the framework ofwhat do you do on your way to
the drag.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Yeah.
So if we compare that to howFinal Fantasy in 1987 starts
delivering stories, you aregetting a little bit of a story
and a little bit of context fromthe world that those first
person experiences maybe werelacking.
But it's a different play style.
(35:53):
But you do, even in FinalFantasy 1, you get the basics.
You can go into the city area,go into the castle, if I
remember right, and here thatyou need to find Garland Right,
that was his name.
Before he became chaos.
Your party of four hopefullyleveled up just a little bit so
(36:16):
that when you find Garland hedoesn't wreck you, Because
that's something that happenedto me once.
One time I just went straightto him and he destroyed me.
So that is why we study for ourtests, kids.
Yeah, you got to level up alittle bit and then you just
have to start going across theworld collecting crystals, right
(36:38):
, Is that?
Speaker 3 (36:40):
I don't exactly remember, but oh, basically you
somehow learned that Garland isan unkindable time traveler kind
of guy, that you must godestroy his fiends to remove his
immortality.
And yeah, by extension, youhave to get the crystals.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
And also Final Fantasy 1 is a really cool time
right now because you can playit on the Pixel Remaster and you
also can play Strangers ofParadise if you need a Dark
Souls feel to your Final Fantasy1 gaming.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
Yeah, that is actually a sleeper hit.
It's very rough around theedges, but I had a great time
about that game.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
There are so many people that I get to interact
with on threads that are justthat game is just over, with
them Over.
When you say a wrestler is overeverything they do the crowd
loves that game is definitely asleeper hit.
And if you're in the communitythat feels it's a sleeper hit,
(37:46):
it's not a sleeper hit, it's ahit.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Yeah, that game, though, is so absurdly
complicated that I canunderstand why it turns away
most people.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Souls games, I think, are extremely complicated.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
But also that game is .
The game has the classic FinalFantasy job system, but it
doesn't explain to you how tomake your job not suck.
You actually need to master itIn real life.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
People haven't explained to me how to make my
job not suck.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
Yeah, for instance, if you just play a Black Mage
singularly and that's all youdid, you are awful, you actually
have to come blind.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
The ability to do it.
Don't listen to Gene.
If you played Black Mage,you're awesome.
Don't listen to him.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
You have to combine the abilities of five different
jobs to make a class work inthat game.
That's why I guess that's verycomplicated.
For instance, you need the MPrecovery abilities from other
jobs.
You need the ability to whenyou hit people, you recover more
(38:53):
MP.
You need all these supportingabilities from other jobs to
make Black Mage work.
And so most people go into thisgame saying I want to be a
fighter and then they find outfighter sucks by itself and they
don't understand.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Okay, yeah, I didn't understand either.
Thank you, gene.
I might have a good shot now,but yeah, you're antidote about.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
Garland yeah, he is the first boss in Stranger in
Paradise and he is brutal.
I spent three hours fightinghim on the demo I did too.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
I did beat him, but that demo was terrifying so hard
.
Okay, I need to comment thatthis episode might just be part
one and not have other segments.
I have no idea, but it's beenso fun talking about what we did
(39:57):
this week and then getting intowhat is Final Fantasy, but that
is such a huge question.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
It is.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
We do have other things that we can add on the
research side, but I'm going totake us on the road of trials so
we can face our challenges anddiscover our strengths.
And this is going to be shorteverybody.
There is research aboutpsychologically, how can Final
(40:27):
Fantasy be used and understood,but to my shock, there's not a
lot from the last eight years,meaning that all of these
researchers are talking aboutolder Final Fantasy games.
So if you're talking about theMMO games, you have Final
(40:51):
Fantasy XI and you have FinalFantasy XIV.
Final Fantasy XIV is the onethat I play on my streams and I
presented on it DIGRA and iscurrently up for review for
another publication.
But Final Fantasy XI was outwhen I was in college.
(41:15):
When you're publishingsomething about that game in its
2005 and you're saying FinalFantasy is an MMO, that's about
this, and you're saying it's 11.
That could be a statement thatis nearly 20 years old.
So, where's all the researcheverybody?
Speaker 2 (41:37):
The main number games .
There haven't been that many inthe past eight years.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
In the past eight years there's been 16, 15, 14
has had several expansions.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Yeah, I guess, if you count the expansions, but two
games in eight years.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
Seven remake.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
Oh yes, seven remake is one of the biggest gaming
efforts that we've seen.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
Yeah, but yeah, it is .
Speaker 2 (42:08):
That just happened right.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Yeah, 2019 or no.
2020 is when remake one cameout.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
Yeah, and that one, yeah, and that one and remake.
Two will come out next month,next month.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Oh man, we're going to do part two, we're going to
do part three, our Final Fantasycoverage is going to go.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
It's climbing up quite well.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Oh man, I'm so excited to see that happen.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Yeah, when next month does it come out?
Speaker 3 (42:43):
Later like 20 something.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
There are a lot of psychologically valuable lessons
that you can get from FinalFantasy.
A lot of people look at FinalFantasy as a good representation
of understanding differentgender based roles and also
seeing more fluidconceptualization of gender in
(43:13):
certain situations as well.
So not adhering to a toxicallymasculine version of video game
characterization, for example.
It's an old activity that youcan do in Final Fantasy now
(43:33):
because it's from the 90s whenFinal Fantasy seven came out.
But I'm playing through remakeagain.
I just finished the chapterthat's in the leisure district
and cloud has to dress up like awoman and get picked by the
(43:57):
crime ward as his sexual plaything for the night so they can
interrogate him.
And in the 90s you're playingthese little pixel versions of
the characters and so cloud hadto dress up like a girl.
In the 90s Now that doesn'tseem as important of a plot
(44:18):
point, but in the 90s, whenthere just wasn't as much
acceptance of things like thatand you're seeing the hero
character be willing to do thatto complete a mission and not
even make a big deal about it, Ithink that's pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
Yeah, and also in that same storyline.
It's interesting the way theypresented in that in the end
that possibly cloud didn't evenneed to do it, because Tifa is
totally capable.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Tifa would have been fine.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
Yeah, exactly, the only part that would have been a
problematic is afterwards, whenthey get dumped down to the
sewers and then, if she's on herown, the sewers that's.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Yeah, that would have been bad, but yeah, they didn't
portray it as Tifa is aweakling that needs help, that's
true, yeah, like a PrincessLeia kind of hero, where she
does get rescued, but then, assoon as they let her out of the
cage, she's calling the shotsand shows that I've got this,
(45:24):
you buffoons.
Tifa is so awesome, so I justneeded to say that so that it's
in the transcript for theepisode.
Oh, my goodness, I was readinga book.
Let me grab the book.
I want everyone to see thisbook.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
It's from the 1940s.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
It is by Edith Hamilton.
It's mythology, gods and heroes, and so I'm just reading
through it so I can have alittle bit of mythology in my
mind to start my day.
This week I've done it aboutthree days in a row and one of
the cool things that I found isthat there is a daughter often
(46:14):
in the telling of these tales, adaughter of Zeus that was named
Aris, and she became a goddessof discord and strife.
Okay, aris is Arith's name onthe PS1 version of Final Fantasy
(46:34):
VII because it was spelledA-E-R-I-S.
It didn't become T-H untilKingdom Hearts came out and she
was a guest characterrepresenting Final Fantasy VII.
Cloud's last name is Strife.
So I'm instantly seeing andthat's just the beginning,
(46:56):
there's a whole rabbit hole hereof all of the ways that Final
Fantasy uses well-known ancientmythologies to help become the
DNA of their stories.
And that's my favorite thing Tosee the words in this book, of
Chapter 1 of this book, to seethe words Aris and Strife in the
(47:17):
same sentence was just that'sneat.
It made me giddy on Sundaymorning.
I just I couldn't believe it.
It was such a cool read.
So this book actually came outseven years before Hero with a
Thousand Faces by JosephCampbell.
(47:38):
So just sharing a little bit ofthat timeline and DNA of what
it is I'm reading and thinkingabout.
Final Fantasy captures a lot ofthose things.
I see Psyche for Geeks in thechat.
I just want to address this.
You're not at the level to playgames like Final Fantasy.
(47:58):
You absolutely are.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
You totally can you absolutely are, take it from me.
Speaker 3 (48:05):
Yeah, you can do it.
Final Fantasy is a very easy toget into game.
Yeah, yeah, I mean you'll have,yeah, the whole first chunk of
every game, except one is anextended tutorial.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
You can't really screw it up Final question,
though when would someone likePsyche for Geeks or someone
who's thinking that way, whereshould they start if they're
saying I love video games, Ilove the idea of playing video
games.
Final Fantasy is so big, Ican't just play Final Fantasy 16
(48:48):
.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Yeah, I'll just say it really depends on what game
style you like.
Speaker 3 (48:58):
Depending on what your mental priorities are for a
game.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
You can play 7 or 10 because they have the most.
How do I say this?
They have the most guidedexperience at the start, and
then they hit a certain pointand then the world opens up,
Whereas other whether it's someof the other games in the series
you have a tutorial that's likean hour and then you can do
(49:25):
what you want, Like FinalFantasy 8, that one.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Oh, that's hard.
That's confusing to me.
Speaker 3 (49:32):
You don't even get money the regular way.
You have a job and you get paida salary and you got to not
suck.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
Oh, that sounds like wife Jean.
How do you do that?
Every episode you makesomething sound.
You made.
Speaker 3 (49:46):
That's a child blew my mind words.
If you are not doing somethingrelevant, if you're just driving
around the wilderness and arented car by the way, you rent
cars in that game If you're justdriving around the wilderness
in a rented car, your job statuswill drop and your pay will get
cut Because you're not going towork.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
That sounds terrible guys.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
It is a good life lesson, though, jenny.
Speaker 2 (50:10):
Don't play that one, Okay.
So if you so 7 or 10, I willsay 10 really wasn't that
difficult for me to play.
I've never played 7, but 14 is.
So if you're the type of personthat likes to play with other
people, the environment in 14,the community in 14 is very
(50:34):
welcoming and if you were to getwith a guild, I'm sure there
will be plenty of people to helpyou and guide you and take you
under their little sprout wing.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
I do feel like getting connected with AIE on
the Crystal Evelyn server was areally valuable part of my
experience in Final Fantasy 14.
Because there's so many peoplethat play the game as one of
their main hobbies and if youjust say, hey, I need someone to
(51:09):
help me get through thisdungeon, they will jump.
At least one person will jumpin and help and you can do
Discord and connect with themand have voice chatting going so
that you can learn thingsquicker than by typing.
Also, the Final Fantasy gamesall have different innovations
(51:32):
on play styles.
Some of them are turn based,meaning it's more like a Pokemon
game, where you know a battlestarts and then you do an attack
, your next party member does anattack, all four members do an
attack and then the enemies doattacks and you just trade back
and forth.
And then there's other gameswhere you run around with a
(51:52):
sword, a gun and magic and youtry to hit the enemies more than
they hit you.
So it really depends what it isyou're excited by in a video
game, and you can find that inFinal Fantasy they've covered
nearly everything in their closeto 100 games, even VR fishing,
(52:14):
apparently.
Let's go on the return and getback to our daily knives.
Oh my gosh, I turned into aninja.
Okay, we get back to our dailylives and take our next step
forward.
Alright, part one is in thebooks.
This is definitely going to beat least a 200 part series.
(52:39):
So, what are we taking with usinto the coming week about our
answer?
Did we answer?
What is Final Fantasy tonight?
Speaker 2 (52:51):
Someone put that in the comments on YouTube, please.
Speaker 3 (52:54):
I think they started, I think we established that
Final Fantasy IZO Series hassomething for everyone.
It does, yes it does.
Speaker 2 (53:03):
That's true.
What is Final Fantasy?
Final Fantasy is something foreveryone.
Speaker 1 (53:11):
Another thing, too, is I wish more mental health
professionals knew about FinalFantasy.
I know people in the geektherapy side of mental health
services probably do have someawareness of Final Fantasy, but
I also feel like there's ashocking number of people that
(53:33):
have no idea what that is.
For example, this is adifferent franchise, different
IP, but my online name used tobe Dr Swotor, which was a
problem because when I'd be atconferences or fan conventions
I'd say I'm Dr Swotor on Twitchand other social media and
(53:55):
they'd be like what's that?
How do you spell it?
They had no idea what SWTOR is.
I came up with this idea of Ineed a different name, and
that's how Dr Gamology became me, because I figured everyone can
hear that and have an idea ofwhat I'm about.
That problem is solved, but Ireally think if I would have
(54:17):
named myself Dr Final Fantasyeven though I believe Final
Fantasy is a bigger gameproperty than Swotor, I still
think that the people in mycircles have no idea what it is,
which is why we did thisepisode is I can now point to.
(54:39):
I did a podcast episode aboutthis where we talked about the
history of the game, what it is.
I even brought out my mythologytextbook and shared one really
simple connection that realmythology is hidden inside all
these games.
Oh, my goodness, gene, what isthe name of the character with
(55:06):
all the arms and swords that'sin every Final Fantasy, starting
with four?
Oh, gilgamesh.
Speaker 3 (55:12):
Gilgamesh, and he started in five.
He started in five, okay.
Speaker 1 (55:19):
Thanks, gene.
Gilgamesh has lots of ties toancient mythology, folklore.
What have you?
And so to bring the ruler thatwas Gilgamesh and characterize
him as this timeless characterthat can cross all the
(55:40):
generations of Final Fantasy andkeep appearing and keep getting
refreshed in different formsthat match the new game
aesthetic.
Some of the games aretraditional fantasy, some of
them are industrialized fantasy,some of them are just Game of
Thrones with the Devil May Cryplay style.
(56:01):
So you really just there is noGilgamesh and 16 is there.
Speaker 3 (56:10):
Not yet.
Speaker 1 (56:11):
Not yet.
Ah, dlc, that's what DLC fouris for.
Give that to us, square Enix,that's what I need.
Speaker 3 (56:19):
They even added him as DLC to Final Fantasy 13 too,
when he showed up with machineguns.
Speaker 1 (56:24):
That's the best Final Fantasy 13, and I will not hear
any other opinions on thematter.
Right, Jenny?
What are you bringing with youinto the week?
Speaker 2 (56:37):
What am I bringing with me?
Honestly, to be honest, I sawthe Witcher in the back of my
head, so it's been distractingfor me, but I'm looking forward
to learning more about different.
Throughout this episode, I'velearned a lot about different
Final Fantasy games that I havenot known anything about, and
(56:59):
I'm looking forward to nextweek's episode where we dive a
little deeper.
Speaker 1 (57:05):
Yeah, also just as a side note, there was a stream I
did last year with Chocobo GPRacing or whatever, which is a
really bad Mario Kart attemptwith Final Fantasy in it, oh man
.
So this is back into the chat,but Shara does such a good job
(57:30):
of modding my channel andeverything I do online and made
a really good point.
And since we're in the YouTubePartner Program, don't forget to
hit and subscribe and turn onthat bell.
All right?
So if these conversations soundfun to you and you're looking
for some great people to playonline games with, check out aie
(57:51):
at aie-gillorg.
And I have one last quest foreveryone to collect for the day
Play Final Fantasy and continuethe journey.
Speaker 2 (58:05):
See you next week.
Speaker 3 (58:19):
Thank you.
Welcome to the Gaming Persona Podcast.
This is a show that exploreswho we become when we play games
.
I'm your host, Dr Gamology,from YouTube and online
classrooms across the country,and I'm joined by two of my best
friends for my gaming journey,Jenny LeBron and Jean Wong.
Friends, how are we doing thisweek?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I'm doing fantastic and I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
I'm doing all right.
It's winter here, finally.
All right, you're buried inwhat?
Buried in snow?
We got, like a photo, snow, soit's yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Oh, that sounds terrible, Jean.
How long does it take to clearout snow from your house?
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Over an hour and it destroys my back, oh no.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Snow is fun for 30 minutes, and then it's over.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
I don't even know what I would do with my day if I
had an extra hour of dealingwith the weather.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
The house of cards would crumble.
Don't tell my work, but Isubtract that time from my
workday.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Okay, I will not tell your work, but you just got to
hope that your work did not hearabout our little operation
we're doing on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I was on one of that works from home three days a
week.
I'm pretty sure making my housenot buried is a prerequisite of
the job.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
I think there is something there it sounds logic.
Yeah, if you spend time in youroffice clearing your desk,
emptying a trash can, making acup of coffee, it's really
important to simulate that kindof stuff in your work from home
day, and tidying up yourworkspace is something you would
(02:03):
do at work.
Yeah, do it, jean.
I approve.
All right, before we getstarted.
We did get started, but beforewe really get started, where can
our listeners find us?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
You can find my photography page on Instagram at
jlibronphotography orjlibronphotographycom, if you're
curious about what NernyPershing's photos look like.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
I am Dr Gamology.
You can find me on YouTube.
I do videos and I do shorts andI do the podcast.
We are playing live throughFinal Fantasy 14.
From the beginning, we've done10 of those streams so far.
That's where you can find me.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
The Game of Persona can be found on Apple Podcasts,
spotify, google and most annualspodcasts can be found.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Thank you for supporting the gaming persona,
Jenny.
What are we talking about thisweek?
Speaker 2 (03:02):
We are jumping into a series of episodes where we
take things back to basics onsome of our favorite game
franchises.
We're starting, of course, withthe Psychology of Final Fantasy
.
This is a Part 1 episode.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yes, this is Part 1.
Just like with my favorite MMO,final Fantasy 14, we can't
promise that we know how manyparts this is going to have.
It could have the next 200episodes, it could be the next
three, who knows?
It really depends how we feelabout continuing to talk about
(03:42):
it.
Let's go ahead and do ourordinary world, where we share
everyday life through our games,all right.
Jenny and Jean, how is yourweek?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
I'm excited about it today.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Wait what.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I'm excited about it.
Today, I have something toshare.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Oh my goodness, Jenny , you go first then, because I
guess my preloaded ridicule ofyou is not necessary this week.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Maybe I don't know.
I have been very into theWitcher 3 this past week, super
into it, but not as a gameplayer myself, as a tandem game
player with my boy.
He's the one that's actuallyplaying, but I'm the one that's
guiding him through and tellinghim what we should do next and
(04:35):
where we should focus our time.
It's been so much fun.
I'm fully in.
We spent hours over the weekendjust playing the game,
exploring around, doing quests,playing Gwent.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Old plan.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
You're playing the Witcher 3, wild Hunt.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Yes, on PS5.
It's so much fun.
In fact I'm itching to finishthe podcast so we can go play
again.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Oh, I'm sorry, Jenny.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
All right, definitely pursue the Gwent storyline.
It's not the card game.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Oh, there's a Gwent storyline.
I did not know that.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Yeah, you get inducted into the deeper society
of Gwent players.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
It's like Yu-Gi-Oh oh my God, this looks so cool.
Let me love it even more.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I can't stand Gwent.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I love that game so much.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
It's a complete distraction of everything I care
about.
I'm glad that Jean and I are onthis episode to talk with you
about this, because we're likethe two different the angel and
the demon on your shoulder here.
I feel like I'm so excited.
That's such a good game for youto be playing.
(05:54):
Also, the way you're playing itthat is a really common thing
that I hear people talk about isthere's so many great games as
far as story goes, especiallywhen the story is choice based,
which the Witcher 3 definitelyis that it's really cool to have
(06:16):
something that's mildlycinematic but you're also owning
the story together.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yeah, when we have the quick decide moments it's
very nerve-wracking, but almostalways I err on the side of dark
.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
The side of dark, the side of dark.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Oh man, I am a very doing what's right version of
Geralt.
Actually, jean, the lastepisode that we did together, or
maybe two of them ago Jenny, Iam near certain that you were
not on this episode, but, jean,you said something about
Geralt's alignment and Iremember saying that Geralt is
(07:00):
largely a projection of theplayer.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
That is the case in the game version.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah, when you're reading a book, you can only
project so much into thecharacter that the author
created.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Yeah, we just had a quest where it was like a
werewolf storyline and webasically had a choice of
whether or not to let thewerewolf kill this girl because
she was doing shady stuff, orkill the werewolf, and I would
(07:38):
have let him kill her.
We ended up killing thewerewolf, so it's fine.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
But the werewolf was going to do the world a service.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
By killing the shady girl.
I know, yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know.
It was a complicated.
Whoever's done that quest willunderstand.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Jenny, would it make you excited to know that what we
are talking about with the roleof choice and moral development
is exactly what my chapter inthe psychology of the Witcher is
about.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Fantastic.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
I love it yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So that book should, based on the timelines for when
I contributed for Pokemon andalso for Elden Ring, I really
would guess the Witcher will becoming out in 2024 also.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Sweet.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Just like the gamer's journey right.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Dr Bean, right Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
We should do a Witcher panel at Mega Con next
year.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Jenny, that's a perfect segue.
We are not doing a Witcherpanel at Mega Con this year, but
you know what we are doing atMega Con this year.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I do.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yes, fine, you tell our audience then I'm out.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
No, it's the opposite of that.
I know what we're doing, but Idon't actually know exactly what
we're doing.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yes, and then I'll grade your answer, because
that's my job.
I'm pretty good at it.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
I feel like we're essentially doing our episode
for Mega Con.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Okay, yes, that's exactly what we're doing on
stage at Mega Con is we're goingto be talking about the
psychology behind stories andvideo games like Final Fantasy.
So Final Fantasy is in thetitle, but we aren't limited
just to Final Fantasy.
We're actually there to talkabout story construction and
(09:44):
mythological heroes, journeys,and we're going to actually
share a bit of content from thegamer's journey with the
audience to try to make peoplemore aware of the book and get
excited for it, and hopefully weget our stuff together, have
things like QR codes forpre-orders and stuff.
I'm really hoping that we canstart sharing tangible things
(10:09):
with this book, that was so cool.
Yes, we're running out of time,though it's four weeks away,
five weeks away.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Less than a month.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Yes so that is, it's strangely early this year.
Very, I do not like it.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yes, mega Con is a May event for me and I feel
wronged.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
I think I don't know.
I think it's better because theMay event was always.
It always coincided with what'sthe holiday in May.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Memorial Day Memorial .
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Day weekend and there was already too many people in
Orlando for that weekend.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
The last time they did it, in May, they had the
line to pick up badges runningoutside instead of setting up
ropes inside.
I have no idea why they thoughtthat was a good and lawful good
choice.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Someone almost died and several people needed
medical attention, and I thinkthat might be some of the
rationale of why it became Marchand then now it's February.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yeah, it's also about availability of the people like
.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
So many people this year, jenny, famous people, so
many.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
I know, I know I'm going to be there anyway for my
friend who also has a bookcoming out, or maybe Is there's
actually going to come out,because I'd like to meet them
and ask them what that's like.
Oh, and it's a book, it's aphotography book, so it's all
photos that he's taken at MegaCon throughout the years of the
(11:51):
incredible cosplayers.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Oh, that's so fun.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I can't wait, and so I'm part of his team this year.
I'm so excited.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Cosplayers are some of the coolest people ever.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Agreed Gene.
What have you been up to thisweek?
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Uh-oh, I've been playing against the storm, which
is, in other stuff, a veryinteresting game.
It's a city builder, but it's arogue-like city builder.
So most city builders, you sitthere for dozens of hours and
you just keep growing.
You're say, bigger and bigger.
Right, this one.
You go on little individualmissions that last like an hour
(12:35):
to two hours, cos.
Basically the concept is you'rein this post-apocalyptic
setting where it rains nonstopand there's only one city that
is dry, and so the queen sendsyou out to go build settlements,
to send back supplies back tothe city.
So each level is a series ofmissions essentially, or
(12:59):
objectives essentially, whereit's like you got to send back
50 crates of copper orvegetables or whatever back to
the city.
But yeah, it's a short timelimit because eventually the
queen, if you don't do it intime, the queen just gets fed up
with you and shuts down yourcity and you're fired.
Oh okay, but yeah, it'sinteresting.
(13:22):
So every time you start up anew level, it's what does the
queen want and how do I getthere?
Speaker 1 (13:28):
And what's the gameplay?
Genre or play style?
Speaker 3 (13:32):
It's a city builder and it's.
You put down some buildings,you tell your workers to do
things, but it's, whereas aregular city builder you're
literally doing it.
This one you have to be goaloriented, Like again I say,
post-apocalyptic setting.
So you're in the middle of aforest and you just have to cut
down trees and figure out whatresources are around you.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
That's like the first half of every map in the
classic Warcraft games.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
And so it's.
But yeah, in Warcraft you don'thave a real time limit other
than the enemies possiblybecoming a murder.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
You they're getting stronger and hopefully you're
getting stronger.
Sometimes you should attackquick or sometimes you should
continue growing and get evenstronger.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
In this game it's at the queen wants 50 crates of
vegetables and I'm diggingaround and I can't find proper
ground to put down a farm.
Then that means I got to switchgears and figure out how to buy
vegetables from merchants tosend back as a constant flux of
strategy based on her demands.
It's interesting that way.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Okay, I like it.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
And so, yeah, you fulfill the goals in an hour and
a half, and then it's, thelevel ends, and then they said
you on a new part of the giantPop-apocalyptic forest.
And then, oh, okay, yeah, Ifigure out what's here again
Okay.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
I Haven't heard of.
So what do we play this on?
Is it PC or PlayStation steam.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Yeah, they're working on a console version, but, yeah
, right now it's just on steam.
It is currently, I believe, thehighest-rated so city building
game on steam.
It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
What's the name again ?
Speaker 3 (15:18):
against this storm.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
That's funny, because that sounds like the reason
that our episode couldn't starton time tonight.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Oh true.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Okay, I do have one more ordinary world thing to
share, and this is superexciting because it really is
what the last Close to year ofmy life has been about, maybe,
but definitely the last fivemonths.
We were able to get Acceptedinto the YouTube partner program
(15:52):
this week, so I got the emailon Monday morning and what
happened the breakdown of why isit really is about the gaming
persona.
Going back around three weeksago, I Added the podcast to the
(16:13):
YouTube channel for Dr Gamalogyviya the RSS feed and this is
something that's relatively newto YouTube.
I didn't do it day one, but Igot an email reminding me that
this is something I could do, soI answered it and I spent an
afternoon connecting it andfiguring out the few steps that
(16:33):
I was screwing up, and I got thepodcast on there.
And then, now that the podcastis on there, you see a logo
version of Of all these episodesand I was like, oh, that really
isn't very cool.
I really should get back Todoing the video episodes, and
that's why we're on squadcastright now, because I figured out
(16:55):
how to connect that over to OBSand now we have our video
episodes, and so then I startedputting all the video episodes
up and so that was about fourvideos plus a hundred and
sixteen or so podcast episodesall hitting the channel at once.
(17:17):
Youtube thought that was socool and just started shooting
our episodes via the algorithmall the different topics.
And I was telling Jenny lastweek it was a one-on-one episode
and I was just talking with herabout we're having some
episodes get hundreds andhundreds of listens, better than
(17:39):
anything that ever happened onApple or Spotify.
I'm sharing that in thisepisode because there might be
other podcasters that listen tous and maybe you know as far as
was a good idea to go throughthe steps to add your podcast to
YouTube.
I Was so skeptical that I putit off for months and now it's.
Yes, absolutely.
(18:00):
That is a very smart thing todo.
We just started gettingHundreds of watch hours out of
nowhere that we weren't used toon the channel.
Everyone who is new to ourlittle ecosystem here the doctor
game ology channel and thegaming persona podcast Welcome.
We're excited to meet you.
(18:21):
You're coming in a good timebecause we're really Reviewing a
lot of episodes or making themmore of a nice Entry point to
what we're talking about,because the first 100 episodes
went so deep and specific thatwe had a little bit there.
Personally, I felt what are wegonna do next?
(18:41):
Now we're in the YouTubepartner program.
That really changed.
That really shuffles up YouTube, twitch, facebook those are the
three places our show goes andthat really just shoots YouTube
to definitely the main spot.
I think let's do the call toadventure and get into our topic
(19:06):
for the week.
Alright, jenny and Jean, wehave a basic question to answer,
and that question is what isfinal fantasy?
So let's just spend a momenttalking about that question, why
we're asking it and what is theanswer.
(19:27):
What is final fantasy?
Speaker 3 (19:31):
If you want to get historical on it, it is we do.
Okay, it is the second oldestJapanese RPG series.
It was only beaten by DragonQuest by a year.
Dragon Quest came out of 1986.
The first one, fantasy, cameout 1987.
(19:53):
Yeah, but that combined twogames, basically established the
Japanese RPG genre as we knowit.
Before that there was a bunchof random games that weren't
mega popular, but those two soldmillions and Made it into a
thing.
But, yeah, they established alot of the norms of that series,
(20:15):
of that of the genre.
But they are term-based RPGadventures where you go through
a fantasy world doing quests ina vague Idea of generally
there's a work, there'ssomething threatening the
(20:36):
universe and we, a band of fouror five, three, four or five
heroes, got to go Evil.
Yeah, beat the evil.
Yeah, we gather gear, we fightmonsters, we level up, we
develop Backstories.
The first song fancy.
Did the first song fancy?
(20:57):
Everyone was generic people.
They were warrior or Ninja,like they weren't care or what
else could they be?
Lots of things black black mageage.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yeah, I actually have a black mage, red mage and
white mage from final fantasy,one on my back window.
You know how people have theirfamily stickers.
Those are my family stickers onmy car.
Oh yeah, I love it finalfantasy one is such an amazing
Game.
Even the first time I played itfor real, other than playing it
(21:38):
on my friends consoles inchildhood, because I never owned
a final fantasy game During thetime where I'm a minor, living
in my parents house, so my onlyconnection with Final Fantasy
until the 2000s was playing atFriends house.
And then I played Final Fantasyone all the way through on my
(22:01):
first iPhone and I just fell inlove with that game.
I had already played FinalFantasy 7 at the time, but I
just loved Sitting at school andanytime I'd be in between
classes and had no assignmentsto work on, I'd just be playing
Final Fantasy one.
(22:21):
And that's probably why I amthe way I am, because if you
listen to all these episodes, Ido my best to admit this
whenever I can.
When I'm learning at that timein my life about all these
Psychological theories, but thenI'm playing these specific
games, it's like the ideas werenot Competing with each other
(22:45):
for space in my mind.
It's like they were becoming amutually supportive Series of
concepts.
I'm learning aboutperson-centered counseling and
cognitive behavioral therapyWhile playing Final Fantasy one,
and that's why I'm weird.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Okay, all right, I guess that we jump ahead in
history there.
Now we're talking about somefancy the series, which spans
Dozens of games.
The number games go up to fiveand C16, but there's plenty of
side games, mobile games, boardgames yeah, it runs the gamut.
(23:25):
There's even a VR fishing game.
What?
Yeah, there's a VR fishinggames for five.
Fancy 15 were Noctis, must fate, must face the depths of the
sea.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Can I play this on my meta quest to?
Speaker 3 (23:43):
I'm not sure it was on.
We have it on steam VR?
Oh, not sure.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
PS.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
VR.
Oh yeah, Now I need to do this.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
But yeah, it runs, damn it.
There's gambling games, there'scard game, it's all over.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Jenny, did you just hear a really good episode?
Yeah, we totally need to do agambling episode of the gaming
persona.
Given what I am and also yourwork backstory, it just yeah,
that's a no-brainer, so that isa spoiler everybody.
(24:20):
Eventually we're gonna have tocover gambling and video games,
but not this day, jenny.
That's the wrong franchise.
We could talk triple triad withJean, if you want.
That's even more fun.
It's the card game from FinalFantasy 8 that also is in 14.
(24:42):
So, jean, you said dozens ofgames.
I know that's easily true.
I'm actually doing the math inmy head and wondering with all
the bizarre Extra games thatthere are, has it reached a
hundred?
Speaker 3 (24:58):
I'm not sure.
I guess it might depend on ifyou count some of the redoes.
For instance, the fact I seepixel remasters adds on Six yeah
, yeah, six plus games by itself.
Actually there's a yeah, Iguess the six yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I forget if they included games like mystic quest
in that bundle or not alsothere's dissidia, right, but
when this, when dissidia Nt cameout, there was a mobile game,
opera omnia X or something, andso if we're counting mobile
(25:40):
games, then definitely finalfantasy is.
Oh my gosh, my entire career isdoctor game.
Olgi arguably happened becauseI got to do a presentation about
Final Fantasy.
Brave, exvious, cool, which wasa mobile game that attempted to
Enter in characters from theentire history of Final Fantasy
(26:03):
plus Ariana Grande.
So, oh yeah, and Katy Perry, no, I don't know what you're
talking about right now.
Ariana Grande is a character inFinal Fantasy.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Brave exvious, Jenny yeah they did a collaboration
along.
Like I said, a few years laterthey did one Katy Perry it was
the.
Both of those people had someFantasy-themed music videos and
then they were like, let's justmake that into a character Okay
(26:37):
yeah, you play as them doingwhat fighting there.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
They're just one of your characters in your battle.
Party of five.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Oh, my goodness yeah.
I love that.
Yeah, gary, let's finish.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Katy Perry in this music video is a cyborg and
she's got all kinds of cyborgrelated abilities.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Okay, that's great.
My, honestly, all of myinteraction with Final Fantasy,
I'll say the majority of myaffiliation with Final Fantasy,
is Final Fantasy 14.
As most people know, myintroduction To Final Fantasy
(27:17):
was Final Fantasy Tactics andthen, I'm not a fan of Final
Fantasy Tactics Jenny.
I don't actually have anopinion on it because, again, I
wasn't playing and it was justsomething I saw in passing a few
times and it looked fine.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Okay, so you're watching it.
See, I was playing it and I'mbad, so I think that might be
the difference.
Yeah, and then I played.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Final Fantasy 10 for a day.
How you play that game for onlya day.
It's one of the best stories ofall time.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Okay, so I played it for a day, but then I watched it
another three days.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
So it's a thing that I have with single player games.
I just don't like it.
I love watching people gameplay single player role-playing
games, but Jenny myself, I justget bored so quickly.
I have a question for you andyou don't have to answer it.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
You can like do any hand gesture that you want if
you don't want to answer.
Do you have a good relationshipwith your dad?
Speaker 2 (28:37):
I do now.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Okay, so it's fine, but it's not like fantastic.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Okay, we don't know what to do.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Okay, we don't need to go into that, because now
we're in personal land and Idon't know if we need that to be
in the episode.
The reason I'm asking is whenyou were saying your difference
of not really falling into FinalFantasy 10, my first thing I
thought of is that story is oneof the best stories for the
(29:09):
mythological telling of a sonseeking some moment of atonement
with the father figure, and Notthat they need to forgive their
father.
It's just there's a Powerfulangst to Tetus, that is, and
(29:30):
he's the character that youstart controlling from the
beginning, although there areother amazing characters in the
game and I didn't get that farin that game.
Okay, I was just thinking thatif there are strong feelings in
a father-son relationship, thehypothesis is maybe that story
resonates more Powerfully andearlier in the story.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Yeah, I could see that, but I didn't get to that
part in the story where thatwould have hooked me.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Okay, yeah.
If you only played that day,the best you might have gotten
is like one or two flashbacksabout Blitzballs.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Blitzball.
Final Fantasy is so fun toobecause it does add in non-story
, non-game related elements todistract you but make the game
more fun.
And I don't mean distract in anegative way, I just mean that
this is weird and it'sdefinitely part of the game and
(30:35):
I'm supposed to play it.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Yeah, yeah, one of the best things about a good
Japanese RPG is that they reallyinvest in the world building
and some of these little weirdgames like triple triad and
Blitzball are baked into theworld and it's yeah, this is.
Blitzball is the equivalent ofSoccer in soccer.
(31:04):
Slash football in the world ofSpira.
It's a big deal.
Literally everyone on theplanet cares about it.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Yeah, yeah, that's definitely clear from the get-go
, and Tetus is a major star.
He's the face of their league.
Basically, that's what I gotout of the game.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
Yeah, he's the Michael Jordan.
I guess Jack was the MichaelJordan of the franchise and he
is Toby.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
I'm instantly sad.
Now, five am Workouts,everybody.
That's how you do it, okay.
So what is Final Fantasy?
It's really hard to have afocused answer to that question,
I think.
But it started in the 80s.
(31:52):
2023 saw Final Fantasy 16released on PS5, and it's always
a story About a character whocould become the warrior of
light, seeking to save theirworld from darkness, and it's
(32:12):
always a game that is playedwith the rules of a role-playing
game, meaning your characterstarts at level one or seven in
the case of the Fancy sevenremake always starts a very low
level.
You defeat enemies, whetherit's turn-based or action style
(32:35):
fighting.
You have swords and meleecombat.
Sometimes you have Weapons thatare ranged like bows and guns.
Sometimes you have magic anddifferent characters specialize
in different things.
And when I'm reading up on theearly games and Jean, since you
(32:56):
play a lot of TT RPGs, maybe youcan expand on this but I get a
feeling that for the 1980s youhave muds, multi user dungeons
as a way for people to do D&Dstyle gaming through a computer.
But there might have been adifferent style of game
(33:16):
Enthusiast in the 80s thatdidn't want to type words, they
wanted to see a little bit of afantasy world, and when I look
at those early Final Fantasygames I start instantly thinking
of well, you can't do theadvanced dialogue based questing
(33:37):
like you can in Dungeons andDragons, but maybe this is a
version of D&D that can exist onthe Nintendo entertainment
system.
Mm-hmm, that you do go intocombat, you have your party of
four.
That just feels to me like avery, very TT RPG kind of thing
the party of four workingtogether and you all have
(34:00):
different classes, so you're notthe exact same thing, and so I
feel like it's a way to carry onsome of that early gaming
heritage into an electronicbased format.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Yeah, it's definitely one of the first Examples of
that.
There were some earlier in.
I believe.
Some of the very first RPGsWere earlier, like 83, 82 ish,
where, if you heard of theseries wizardry, they are
first-person dungeon crawlexperiences.
(34:35):
You don't really have a bigexpanse of overworld like you do
in a Final Fantasy.
It's a you're in a dungeon,your, your, your party, are just
going around trying to getdeeper and deeper into the
dungeon and, yeah, you make somechoices along the way.
It's a different Experience.
I've got that.
(34:56):
It replicates that feel of theTTRPG but in a very what's the
word?
Distilled fashion, because someof those early D&D adventurers
words just about you're going toa dungeon and you fight until
you find the dragon and then youkill the dragon.
(35:16):
It's replicating thatexperience.
Yeah, those things were very upto the GM to make up a story to
wrap around the framework ofwhat do you do on your way to
the drag.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Yeah.
So if we compare that to howFinal Fantasy in 1987 starts
delivering stories, you aregetting a little bit of a story
and a little bit of context fromthe world that those first
person experiences maybe werelacking.
But it's a different play style.
(35:53):
But you do, even in FinalFantasy 1, you get the basics.
You can go into the city area,go into the castle, if I
remember right, and here thatyou need to find Garland Right,
that was his name.
Before he became chaos.
Your party of four hopefullyleveled up just a little bit so
(36:16):
that when you find Garland hedoesn't wreck you, Because
that's something that happenedto me once.
One time I just went straightto him and he destroyed me.
So that is why we study for ourtests, kids.
Yeah, you got to level up alittle bit and then you just
have to start going across theworld collecting crystals, right
(36:38):
, Is that?
Speaker 3 (36:40):
I don't exactly remember, but oh, basically you
somehow learned that Garland isan unkindable time traveler kind
of guy, that you must godestroy his fiends to remove his
immortality.
And yeah, by extension, youhave to get the crystals.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
And also Final Fantasy 1 is a really cool time
right now because you can playit on the Pixel Remaster and you
also can play Strangers ofParadise if you need a Dark
Souls feel to your Final Fantasy1 gaming.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
Yeah, that is actually a sleeper hit.
It's very rough around theedges, but I had a great time
about that game.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
There are so many people that I get to interact
with on threads that are justthat game is just over, with
them Over.
When you say a wrestler is overeverything they do the crowd
loves that game is definitely asleeper hit.
And if you're in the communitythat feels it's a sleeper hit,
(37:46):
it's not a sleeper hit, it's ahit.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Yeah, that game, though, is so absurdly
complicated that I canunderstand why it turns away
most people.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Souls games, I think, are extremely complicated.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
But also that game is .
The game has the classic FinalFantasy job system, but it
doesn't explain to you how tomake your job not suck.
You actually need to master itIn real life.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
People haven't explained to me how to make my
job not suck.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
Yeah, for instance, if you just play a Black Mage
singularly and that's all youdid, you are awful, you actually
have to come blind.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
The ability to do it.
Don't listen to Gene.
If you played Black Mage,you're awesome.
Don't listen to him.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
You have to combine the abilities of five different
jobs to make a class work inthat game.
That's why I guess that's verycomplicated.
For instance, you need the MPrecovery abilities from other
jobs.
You need the ability to whenyou hit people, you recover more
(38:53):
MP.
You need all these supportingabilities from other jobs to
make Black Mage work.
And so most people go into thisgame saying I want to be a
fighter and then they find outfighter sucks by itself and they
don't understand.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Okay, yeah, I didn't understand either.
Thank you, gene.
I might have a good shot now,but yeah, you're antidote about.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
Garland yeah, he is the first boss in Stranger in
Paradise and he is brutal.
I spent three hours fightinghim on the demo I did too.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
I did beat him, but that demo was terrifying so hard
.
Okay, I need to comment thatthis episode might just be part
one and not have other segments.
I have no idea, but it's beenso fun talking about what we did
(39:57):
this week and then getting intowhat is Final Fantasy, but that
is such a huge question.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
It is.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
We do have other things that we can add on the
research side, but I'm going totake us on the road of trials so
we can face our challenges anddiscover our strengths.
And this is going to be shorteverybody.
There is research aboutpsychologically, how can Final
(40:27):
Fantasy be used and understood,but to my shock, there's not a
lot from the last eight years,meaning that all of these
researchers are talking aboutolder Final Fantasy games.
So if you're talking about theMMO games, you have Final
(40:51):
Fantasy XI and you have FinalFantasy XIV.
Final Fantasy XIV is the onethat I play on my streams and I
presented on it DIGRA and iscurrently up for review for
another publication.
But Final Fantasy XI was outwhen I was in college.
(41:15):
When you're publishingsomething about that game in its
2005 and you're saying FinalFantasy is an MMO, that's about
this, and you're saying it's 11.
That could be a statement thatis nearly 20 years old.
So, where's all the researcheverybody?
Speaker 2 (41:37):
The main number games .
There haven't been that many inthe past eight years.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
In the past eight years there's been 16, 15, 14
has had several expansions.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Yeah, I guess, if you count the expansions, but two
games in eight years.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
Seven remake.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
Oh yes, seven remake is one of the biggest gaming
efforts that we've seen.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
Yeah, but yeah, it is .
Speaker 2 (42:08):
That just happened right.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Yeah, 2019 or no.
2020 is when remake one cameout.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
Yeah, and that one, yeah, and that one and remake.
Two will come out next month,next month.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Oh man, we're going to do part two, we're going to
do part three, our Final Fantasycoverage is going to go.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
It's climbing up quite well.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Oh man, I'm so excited to see that happen.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Yeah, when next month does it come out?
Speaker 3 (42:43):
Later like 20 something.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
There are a lot of psychologically valuable lessons
that you can get from FinalFantasy.
A lot of people look at FinalFantasy as a good representation
of understanding differentgender based roles and also
seeing more fluidconceptualization of gender in
(43:13):
certain situations as well.
So not adhering to a toxicallymasculine version of video game
characterization, for example.
It's an old activity that youcan do in Final Fantasy now
(43:33):
because it's from the 90s whenFinal Fantasy seven came out.
But I'm playing through remakeagain.
I just finished the chapterthat's in the leisure district
and cloud has to dress up like awoman and get picked by the
(43:57):
crime ward as his sexual plaything for the night so they can
interrogate him.
And in the 90s you're playingthese little pixel versions of
the characters and so cloud hadto dress up like a girl.
In the 90s Now that doesn'tseem as important of a plot
(44:18):
point, but in the 90s, whenthere just wasn't as much
acceptance of things like thatand you're seeing the hero
character be willing to do thatto complete a mission and not
even make a big deal about it, Ithink that's pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
Yeah, and also in that same storyline.
It's interesting the way theypresented in that in the end
that possibly cloud didn't evenneed to do it, because Tifa is
totally capable.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Tifa would have been fine.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
Yeah, exactly, the only part that would have been a
problematic is afterwards, whenthey get dumped down to the
sewers and then, if she's on herown, the sewers that's.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Yeah, that would have been bad, but yeah, they didn't
portray it as Tifa is aweakling that needs help, that's
true, yeah, like a PrincessLeia kind of hero, where she
does get rescued, but then, assoon as they let her out of the
cage, she's calling the shotsand shows that I've got this,
(45:24):
you buffoons.
Tifa is so awesome, so I justneeded to say that so that it's
in the transcript for theepisode.
Oh, my goodness, I was readinga book.
Let me grab the book.
I want everyone to see thisbook.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
It's from the 1940s.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
It is by Edith Hamilton.
It's mythology, gods and heroes, and so I'm just reading
through it so I can have alittle bit of mythology in my
mind to start my day.
This week I've done it aboutthree days in a row and one of
the cool things that I found isthat there is a daughter often
(46:14):
in the telling of these tales, adaughter of Zeus that was named
Aris, and she became a goddessof discord and strife.
Okay, aris is Arith's name onthe PS1 version of Final Fantasy
(46:34):
VII because it was spelledA-E-R-I-S.
It didn't become T-H untilKingdom Hearts came out and she
was a guest characterrepresenting Final Fantasy VII.
Cloud's last name is Strife.
So I'm instantly seeing andthat's just the beginning,
(46:56):
there's a whole rabbit hole hereof all of the ways that Final
Fantasy uses well-known ancientmythologies to help become the
DNA of their stories.
And that's my favorite thing Tosee the words in this book, of
Chapter 1 of this book, to seethe words Aris and Strife in the
(47:17):
same sentence was just that'sneat.
It made me giddy on Sundaymorning.
I just I couldn't believe it.
It was such a cool read.
So this book actually came outseven years before Hero with a
Thousand Faces by JosephCampbell.
(47:38):
So just sharing a little bit ofthat timeline and DNA of what
it is I'm reading and thinkingabout.
Final Fantasy captures a lot ofthose things.
I see Psyche for Geeks in thechat.
I just want to address this.
You're not at the level to playgames like Final Fantasy.
(47:58):
You absolutely are.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
You totally can you absolutely are, take it from me.
Speaker 3 (48:05):
Yeah, you can do it.
Final Fantasy is a very easy toget into game.
Yeah, yeah, I mean you'll have,yeah, the whole first chunk of
every game, except one is anextended tutorial.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
You can't really screw it up Final question,
though when would someone likePsyche for Geeks or someone
who's thinking that way, whereshould they start if they're
saying I love video games, Ilove the idea of playing video
games.
Final Fantasy is so big, Ican't just play Final Fantasy 16
(48:48):
.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Yeah, I'll just say it really depends on what game
style you like.
Speaker 3 (48:58):
Depending on what your mental priorities are for a
game.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
You can play 7 or 10 because they have the most.
How do I say this?
They have the most guidedexperience at the start, and
then they hit a certain pointand then the world opens up,
Whereas other whether it's someof the other games in the series
you have a tutorial that's likean hour and then you can do
(49:25):
what you want, Like FinalFantasy 8, that one.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Oh, that's hard.
That's confusing to me.
Speaker 3 (49:32):
You don't even get money the regular way.
You have a job and you get paida salary and you got to not
suck.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
Oh, that sounds like wife Jean.
How do you do that?
Every episode you makesomething sound.
You made.
Speaker 3 (49:46):
That's a child blew my mind words.
If you are not doing somethingrelevant, if you're just driving
around the wilderness and arented car by the way, you rent
cars in that game If you're justdriving around the wilderness
in a rented car, your job statuswill drop and your pay will get
cut Because you're not going towork.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
That sounds terrible guys.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
It is a good life lesson, though, jenny.
Speaker 2 (50:10):
Don't play that one, Okay.
So if you so 7 or 10, I willsay 10 really wasn't that
difficult for me to play.
I've never played 7, but 14 is.
So if you're the type of personthat likes to play with other
people, the environment in 14,the community in 14 is very
(50:34):
welcoming and if you were to getwith a guild, I'm sure there
will be plenty of people to helpyou and guide you and take you
under their little sprout wing.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
I do feel like getting connected with AIE on
the Crystal Evelyn server was areally valuable part of my
experience in Final Fantasy 14.
Because there's so many peoplethat play the game as one of
their main hobbies and if youjust say, hey, I need someone to
(51:09):
help me get through thisdungeon, they will jump.
At least one person will jumpin and help and you can do
Discord and connect with themand have voice chatting going so
that you can learn thingsquicker than by typing.
Also, the Final Fantasy gamesall have different innovations
(51:32):
on play styles.
Some of them are turn based,meaning it's more like a Pokemon
game, where you know a battlestarts and then you do an attack
, your next party member does anattack, all four members do an
attack and then the enemies doattacks and you just trade back
and forth.
And then there's other gameswhere you run around with a
(51:52):
sword, a gun and magic and youtry to hit the enemies more than
they hit you.
So it really depends what it isyou're excited by in a video
game, and you can find that inFinal Fantasy they've covered
nearly everything in their closeto 100 games, even VR fishing,
(52:14):
apparently.
Let's go on the return and getback to our daily knives.
Oh my gosh, I turned into aninja.
Okay, we get back to our dailylives and take our next step
forward.
Alright, part one is in thebooks.
This is definitely going to beat least a 200 part series.
(52:39):
So, what are we taking with usinto the coming week about our
answer?
Did we answer?
What is Final Fantasy tonight?
Speaker 2 (52:51):
Someone put that in the comments on YouTube, please.
Speaker 3 (52:54):
I think they started, I think we established that
Final Fantasy IZO Series hassomething for everyone.
It does, yes it does.
Speaker 2 (53:03):
That's true.
What is Final Fantasy?
Final Fantasy is something foreveryone.
Speaker 1 (53:11):
Another thing, too, is I wish more mental health
professionals knew about FinalFantasy.
I know people in the geektherapy side of mental health
services probably do have someawareness of Final Fantasy, but
I also feel like there's ashocking number of people that
(53:33):
have no idea what that is.
For example, this is adifferent franchise, different
IP, but my online name used tobe Dr Swotor, which was a
problem because when I'd be atconferences or fan conventions
I'd say I'm Dr Swotor on Twitchand other social media and
(53:55):
they'd be like what's that?
How do you spell it?
They had no idea what SWTOR is.
I came up with this idea of Ineed a different name, and
that's how Dr Gamology became me, because I figured everyone can
hear that and have an idea ofwhat I'm about.
That problem is solved, but Ireally think if I would have
(54:17):
named myself Dr Final Fantasyeven though I believe Final
Fantasy is a bigger gameproperty than Swotor, I still
think that the people in mycircles have no idea what it is,
which is why we did thisepisode is I can now point to.
(54:39):
I did a podcast episode aboutthis where we talked about the
history of the game, what it is.
I even brought out my mythologytextbook and shared one really
simple connection that realmythology is hidden inside all
these games.
Oh, my goodness, gene, what isthe name of the character with
(55:06):
all the arms and swords that'sin every Final Fantasy, starting
with four?
Oh, gilgamesh.
Speaker 3 (55:12):
Gilgamesh, and he started in five.
He started in five, okay.
Speaker 1 (55:19):
Thanks, gene.
Gilgamesh has lots of ties toancient mythology, folklore.
What have you?
And so to bring the ruler thatwas Gilgamesh and characterize
him as this timeless characterthat can cross all the
(55:40):
generations of Final Fantasy andkeep appearing and keep getting
refreshed in different formsthat match the new game
aesthetic.
Some of the games aretraditional fantasy, some of
them are industrialized fantasy,some of them are just Game of
Thrones with the Devil May Cryplay style.
(56:01):
So you really just there is noGilgamesh and 16 is there.
Speaker 3 (56:10):
Not yet.
Speaker 1 (56:11):
Not yet.
Ah, dlc, that's what DLC fouris for.
Give that to us, square Enix,that's what I need.
Speaker 3 (56:19):
They even added him as DLC to Final Fantasy 13 too,
when he showed up with machineguns.
Speaker 1 (56:24):
That's the best Final Fantasy 13, and I will not hear
any other opinions on thematter.
Right, Jenny?
What are you bringing with youinto the week?
Speaker 2 (56:37):
What am I bringing with me?
Honestly, to be honest, I sawthe Witcher in the back of my
head, so it's been distractingfor me, but I'm looking forward
to learning more about different.
Throughout this episode, I'velearned a lot about different
Final Fantasy games that I havenot known anything about, and
(56:59):
I'm looking forward to nextweek's episode where we dive a
little deeper.
Speaker 1 (57:05):
Yeah, also just as a side note, there was a stream I
did last year with Chocobo GPRacing or whatever, which is a
really bad Mario Kart attemptwith Final Fantasy in it, oh man
.
So this is back into the chat,but Shara does such a good job
(57:30):
of modding my channel andeverything I do online and made
a really good point.
And since we're in the YouTubePartner Program, don't forget to
hit and subscribe and turn onthat bell.
All right?
So if these conversations soundfun to you and you're looking
for some great people to playonline games with, check out aie
(57:51):
at aie-gillorg.
And I have one last quest foreveryone to collect for the day
Play Final Fantasy and continuethe journey.
Speaker 2 (58:05):
See you next week.
Speaker 3 (58:19):
Thank you.
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