When Difficult Games Teach Us About Life's Challenges

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The Gaming Persona podcast explores the intersection of gaming difficulty, life lessons, and personal growth through a wide-ranging conversation about current gaming experiences and wrestling entertainment.

• •The Gamer's Journey is the WINNER of the Psychology Category at the International Impact Book Awards for April 2025!!! 
• •Reflecting on Timothy Zahn's "Heir to the Empire" 34th anniversary
• • Discussing the importance of digital disconnection during vacation time
• • Exploring the challenges of WWE 2K25's character unlocking system
• • Analyzing how microtransactions changed gaming from Oblivion's horse armor to today
• • Deep dive into Expedition 33's innovative turn-based combat requiring active defense
• • Comparing Expedition 33 and Elden Ring's approaches to difficulty and player growth
• • Breaking down WrestleMania 41 matches and storytelling techniques
• • Examining how gaming and wrestling both create meaningful parallels to real life

Continue the journey with us as we explore how gaming shapes who we are and how we approach life's challenges.

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If you would like to support the show and help us unlock additional possibilities for future episodes and projects, this can now be done through Patreon!

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Thanks for Listening, and Continue The Journey!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Gaming Persona podcast.
This is the show that exploreswho we become when we play games
, whether you're saving kingdoms, leading epic raids or just
vibing in cozy indie worlds.
Join me, dr Gamology and mygood friend Marcus as we search
for all the ways gaming andpersonal growth collide.
Grab your controllers and let'scontinue the journey Now.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Did I?
I totally forgot to tell youthis.
Oh my God, I can't believe Iforgot to tell you this.
You know what came out 34 yearsago?
No, the greatest book ever forme, like the number one book.
Number one for me.
There's no book better thanthis one book.
You know what that book that is?

Speaker 1 (00:43):
There's no way.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
That book is 34 years old yep star wars heir to the
empire.
Written by timothy zahn wow.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
So that book came out when I was four years old wow,
34 years ago I I linked it.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
Heir to the empire was released on this day, may
1st 2025.
Uh, 34 years ago it's myfavorite.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
Amazing, that is the first adult novel that I ever
read I have a second edition ofthat book wow, wow, that's
amazing.
I don't even know my.
If you look over my shoulderright there, you see the thron

(01:29):
trilogy right there.
Um, wow, okay, that's a greatway to start a show, but I have
one that I hope we can bothagree wait, can I just show you,
see that, the capero posterthat's the planet of the chiss
yep.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
Timothy zahn signed that for me when I met.
I met him at the star wars starwars, the old republic cantina
in new york city in, I think,2017.
I talked to him for like 25minutes and it was dude.
If it wasn't for you, I wouldhave never read Star Wars books

(02:08):
and that's what I read.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
He's a great author he really is.
Also, I'm pretty sure he's wonawards.
Are you ready for this segue,Marcus?

Speaker 2 (02:20):
I already know it.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
So if, assuming that Timothy's on has won many, many
awards because he's amazingauthor, we have something in
common since the last episodewas recorded.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
But yeah, you won an award.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Yes and new impact.
Book award winner in thepsychology category, dr Hemology
.
I love that oh man, we're aboutto talk about so much wrestling
too.
So I I'm just so thrilled to beable to say and new next to my
name, and if you love wrestling,you know, you know, you know.

(02:59):
Thanks, everybody uh, so we'rewell deserved, thank you, I mean
I mean you were on vacation andyou were the first person I
texted.
I didn't realize you disconnectso hard during vacation.
So I was like, oh, I gotta waitfor the deluge of text messages
like seven days.
But then you opened your phoneand I got all the text messages.

(03:20):
I was like, yes, validationfrom my friendship.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah, you know, it was this vacation I needed and I
literally took my phone andthrew it in the hotel room and
or the like, the condo thing andjust let it sit.
I'm like I don't need it.
I have my kids, I have my wife,that's all I need.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, it was no joke, but I'm really proud of you for
doing that too.
I'm just saying that, like you,are the first person I texted
and then, like you know, ofcourse my family knew from like
me saying out loud.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
Can I tell you a little joke about my vacation?
Want to know how hard Idisconnected?

Speaker 1 (03:59):
Sure, okay, okay.
You disconnected so hard youhad to log back into life with
your security key.
Oh, where's book one?

Speaker 2 (04:16):
What do you mean?
All right, anyway.
Anyway.
So this book it's calledKingdom Keepers oh yeah, I'm
familiar with that.
Okay, this book it's calledKingdom Keepers oh yeah, I'm
familiar with that, okay.
So we went to Hilton Head inSouth Carolina but we stayed at
the Disney Resort in Hilton Headand it was amazing and I
completely disconnected.

(04:37):
I bought Trinity Trigger Foranybody.
It's like Trials of Mana andVisions of Mana on the Switch
and it's made by the same people.
Essentially, it's definitelylike the same thing.
Anyway, I bought that game butI didn't even turn it on because
I was in the the Disney storebuying the kids the Mickey ice

(04:57):
cream sandwiches.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
Cause they're the best.
And I walked by this book andit's called kingdom keepers and
it was book one and I read itand it's it's basically like a
teenager's book.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
Right and it's about.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
Villains are trying to like take over parks and like
take over the world.
And there's these kids who aremade into like holograms.
Blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
It kind of reminds me of kingdom hearts, except it
occurs in the theme parks.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yes, yeah, okay, that's a good way to put it, and
you're and you're not actuallylike fighting, yeah, right, but
anyway.
So I bought book one.
It was $10 and I'm like youknow what.
I started reading it.
I read the book in two days.
Well, yeah, that's good Well foryou because you're a super

(05:48):
reader, but for me that's like Idon't read super well, but I
read the whole thing in two daysbecause I was in fast Like
every moment of the day that Iwasn't playing with the kids or
doing a cannonball contest orwater slide races or anything
like that, I was reading thisbook.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
Well, I was just saying, if you have the love of
Timothy Zahn books and you havethat with certain Star Wars
books that come out, think aboutlifting at the gym, right,
you're used to lifting heavierand then you get something
that's lighter and it's alsocompelling, so you're able to

(06:26):
get through it quicker.
That's all I was saying.
I wasn't comparing you to me.
I was saying that makes a lotof sense given the kinds of
books that I know you like.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
Right and I was.
I loved it.
So my wife and kids went to thestore before we left.
I stayed back.
I was just like packing andlike getting stuff together to
move, like leave and pack thecar.
So they went to the store, theybought me book two and three
and obviously I'm reading itslower now that I'm home.

(06:54):
But I'm halfway through booktwo and it's really a good read.
It's fun because I love DisneyLike I absolutely love Disney.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
That's so nice Cause I live in Disney central.
You should visit me more often,Marcus.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yeah, the last time I was down, I was only there for
four days and we didn't get toconnect and it really sucks,
cause I usually get to see't getto connect, and it really sucks
because I usually get to seeyou once a year and because of
that now it's going to be liketwo years since I've seen you
and like that shit bothers me.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
Yeah, but back to the books, I'm sure that the way
they're written and the way thestory flows, that they help you
to believe in something andpositivity and the power of
friendship and yeah, are reallygood things.
It's nice when fiction gives usthat, because sometimes it
gives us travis scott helpingjohn cena become champion.
So, uh, I don't remember howthe episode actually starts, so

(07:54):
let's see how that goes do youknow how nice it is to not do
anything in one day?
I do not.
Can you tell me?

Speaker 2 (08:02):
about it.
So I quit my job.
I gave my what, yeah, so like Iquit my job, and but you knew
that I that reaction wascompletely for the, for the
persona, peeps oh no, we shouldplay the music like no, I don't
want no scrubs that's you.
Now, guys can't get no lovefrom me.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yeah, let's do it.
Oh man, that's an anthem frommy childhood.
Right, me too.
I got to turn you up.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
So what I was going to say is so I quit my job, gave
my two weeks Like I did itright, all of that.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
But my point to you yeah because we're professional
on the gaming persona, includingwhen we interrupt each other.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
Well, that's the territory, right.
But still, when you worksomewhere, I feel like, unless
you absolutely hate your lifeand it's going to ruin your
mental health to work there twomore weeks, you always give
notice because you never knowwhen somebody from that place is

(09:04):
going to affect your life later.
That's so true.
You know what I mean and I youknow who I learned that from.
I actually learned it fromjackie cow, who worked at
bioware on uh, star wars, theold republic, and when we
interviewed him, you know, weasked him questions and in the

(09:27):
post show, when it was just uswe were asking questions, we
were like and he didn't answersome things and he danced around
and I said man, you don't workthere anymore.
And he goes look at, the gamingindustry is not that big.
He used Eric Musco as a example.
He goes such a cool guy, right,great guy, yeah.

(09:49):
And his auto response to allcontent creators is that's a
great question, but I can'tanswer it.
But anyway, he said if I bashsomebody, the gaming world is a
gaming production World is small.
Eric Musco could end up at Xcompany five years from now and

(10:09):
then I'm trying to apply to thatplace and he's like fuck him,
he was an asshole to me.
Or he talks shit about us on apodcast, right, that's closing
doors.
So you never, you never do that.
You know what I'm saying.
And that brings me to my pointof you.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
Give your two-week notice or one week, whatever the
company policy is just becauseit's the right thing to do
because I started my privatepractice, because they screwed

(10:47):
up their contracts and myprogram that I was a counselor
for ended up not even existing,just flash out of nowhere, and I
had to give my two weeks notice.
But I gave them.
No one was in the office onMonday and so I left my
resignation letter under thedoor of my supervisor.
Yeah, and then I went about myregular Monday day in the field

(11:08):
and I did that for two weeks.
She messaged me and said youonly did nine days because like
10 days would be two work weeks.
I was like what do you mean?
I gave it to you on Monday.
I worked that Monday, finishedFriday.
They're like no, you won.
I gave it to you on Monday, Iworked that Monday, finished
Friday.
They're like no, you won'tqualify as doing your two weeks
unless you come in on Monday,because we didn't officially get

(11:31):
that letter until Tuesdaymorning.
I was like, yeah, because youleft early on Monday, you goon.
So I came into the office foran extra day and just played
video games on my laptop becauseI had no caseload right and and
so that counted as work.
And that was when I realized Ican play video games for for

(11:54):
work, and that's when the dreamstarted, marcus the dream yeah
but yeah, so we're talking thesame language.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
So I did that.
So, circling back to me doingnothing, so I have some PTO left
.
So I took PTO day today but Iwas going to drive into Boston
to this store where I buy mywork clothes, and it's about an
hour away and I was north ofBoston, but anyway, that doesn't

(12:26):
matter the point is.
But then I found out thatthere's another store in Rhode
Island, which is probably 20minutes from my wife's uncle's
house in Rhode Island, that wego to in the summer and I don't
actually need pants, but I have.
I have four pairs of thesepants and these parents are like
$80 a pair, but they're threesizes too big because I lost so

(12:50):
much weight and they're brandnew in the package.
But when I called to say hey,can I exchange these, they said
only in person.
We will accept them in personbecause your return, the return
day, is passed.
You know what I mean.
Like the their policy onreturns, but if I go there with

(13:10):
the pants, they'll exchange them.
Okay, so I have to drive there,but I was going to do that.
I didn't end up doing that, soI literally did nothing today I
watched I finished the hall offame, the Triple H Hall of Fame
speech.
I played some WWE 2K25.

(13:31):
I actually pulled Radagon anddid a science experiment today.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
That's Elden Ring for the untarnished.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
I was going to just say that.
So I pulled Radagon and Ipulled him probably five times.
I got him to about like 30%health before I died a bunch of
times.
And I said and I was screenrecording it because when I beat
the game I want it recordedyeah, big moment recording it,

(14:09):
because I want when I beat thegame I want it recorded.
Yeah, there's so big moment,I've played this game for 110
hours, it's a big moment.
So I was screen recording itand I said on the screen record.
I was like I'm gonna do ascience experiment, I'm gonna
summon a summon and see whathappens.
I beat Radagon first.
Try Nice Summon, it made it.

(14:30):
It's really cheating, it's sooverpowered and like just the
boss being distracted from youmakes it so easy.
Anyway, I saw the Elden beastfor the first time and I got the
elden beast I want to say to 20.
It almost died.
And okay, I was, I was playingfoolish because I'm like I got a

(14:57):
summon, like who cares?
And the summon died and Ididn't realize it.
So then Elden Beast completelyfaced me and I got wiped.
But I'm like, all right, thisis not going to be hard.
So the plan is beat Radagonwithout a summon, then summon
for the Elden Beast fight andhopefully, you know, that makes

(15:19):
it a little easier.
And I can beat this game.
Sure, of course, wow.
And I can beat this game Sure,of course, wow.
But honestly, I've beenthinking a lot about like what's
next?
Kind of like what you weretalking about last week, man.
You haven't said much today.
This is kind of cool.
It's like it's like your KeanuReeves for John wick.

(15:40):
John wick didn't want to say alot of things, so he charged the
movie company $39,000 per word.
He says.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
That's so great.
I would be so rich right now.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah, so he made $15 million by only saying 510 words
, or something like that, andthe movie is rated the best out
of all of the movies.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
Anyway, moving on John Wick a great movie.
I was just trying to explain tomy wife that we should watch
them, but she doesn't likeaction movies.
But she told me we had thisdating couples closeness
communication app that we useevery day, called cozy home, to
gamify yeah, to gamify ourrelationship and have topics
every day.
And we raise a digital cattogether because our two real

(16:25):
cats are not enough.
And so we were talking aboutwho our original crush is Like.
What's the celebrity that madeyou realize that you are
attracted to the opposite sex?
And hers was Keanu Reeves.
So then, within a couple hoursof that conversation, I'm like
how come we've never watchedJohn Wick?
I love the first three.
I've never seen the fourth one,but I know I would love that

(16:47):
one too.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
I don't think I've seen the third.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
That's not my thing.
She's not going to watch itwith me, Marcus.
What the heck they're so good.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
I think you just got to put it on one day.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
Yeah.
And see if she gets sucked inden well, her love for keanu
reeves comes from bill and ted,and that's honestly a very
different thing than john wickbut, you know, he's still keanu
he's still keanu reeves.
I still think it's great.
I think we'd enjoy it.
Um, I actually I'm sorryeveryone if you're dying to know

(17:19):
who my celebrity crush thatmade me realize I'm attracted to
the opposite sex was.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
I don't remember what I said.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
If I remember, I will totally just blurt it out in
the middle of the episode minewas elizabeth like miss
elizabeth.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, from macho man's from the macho man randy
savage she came out inwrestlemania what was it?
Three or four in that sparklydress and I was like mania, what
was?
It three or four in thatsparkly dress and I was like and
I'm a little kid going okay, Iremember my answer.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
I remember it was nicole kidman from batman
forever, and we were talkingabout this because val kilmer
passed away and he was batman inthat movie.
And then she's like, really,nicole kidman was in batman.
I was like, yeah, totally so.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
Yep it was hard.
Yep, there it is.
So I was playing, so, needlessto say, my day of nothing.
I played a lot of WWE and Ididn't buy the premium copy this
year because they aren't.
They don't sell the premiumversions on disc anymore, and

(18:26):
the reason why I bought disc isbecause my son has a PlayStation
and I have a PlayStation and wekind of share the game through
the house, sure, but I now I'mregretting not buying the better
version because I want all thecharacters and, like you, legit

(18:46):
have to work in order to get allthose characters.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
And I'm not that good at the game.
I need to interject herebecause I did buy the bloodline
edition and I've always boughtthe premium edition because WWE
is one of my favorite things.
So, getting all the stuff, allthe features, all the you know,
all the bonuses, I love that,yep.
But.
But if the goal is to play thegame and have a reason to play

(19:13):
the game, you did it betterbecause, listen, it's a lot of
work to unlock the characters.
But when everything's unlocked,everything, not just the
wrestlers, the belts, the arenasthe only things that are not
unlocked now for me are thingsthat are tied to that storyline

(19:35):
where you play as all themembers of the bloodline
throughout history and you redotheir matches.
Those are the only things thatare grayed out for me that I
can't use right out of the box,and so there's no reason for me
to play matches, except if Iwant to play them.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
There's no incentive so I do agree with you.
I absolutely agree with you.
But my six-year-old son justwants to be all the characters.
Like we're playing the game.
We're doing one-on-one matches,a steel cage match like we're
not.
We're just doing matches likewhoever he says I'm gonna be him
and I'm gonna pick somebodyelse.
So for me, I'm gonna buy the 60season pass that unlocks all

(20:16):
the characters.
That's basically what you getin the bloodline edition.
You know what I mean, and it'sgonna be my mistake that I
didn't just pay the money to getthe Bloodline Edition Because,
as fun as it is to do a matchand get 50 of the
non-purchasable coins, because Idon't think you can actually

(20:37):
buy those coins, I think you can.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
Oh, okay, I think you can do a digital unlock from
the PSN and just buy the boostthat gives you all the stuff.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
Right.
So my point is I think I haveto do that because for me it's
more of like my son wants to beJohn Cena and you only have one
John Cena, and the John Cena hewants is locked behind this
paywall and my one should be adifferent color of the fruity

(21:08):
pebbles shirts.
Right and he he doesn't, he, hedoesn't, he's not going to
obtain 124 stars in my rise.
Live events.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
You know what I mean oh, you know what I mean like
action yeah, like I don't wantto do that.
That's such a drag.
Also, it's a it's manipulative,because in order to participate
in those matches you have tobuy the packs with money to get
the wrestlers that are requiredin order to do the live event
matches and you're not, you'renot even guaranteed to get that

(21:42):
character because it's a lootbox system.
So if you need I'm making up acard here If you need Sapphire
rated 78 LA Knight from the likeCyborg Rebellion pack making
stuff up here and you buy 10 ofthose packs, you might get, you

(22:06):
know, three Sapphire cards.
But you might get TiffanyStratton, you might get CM Punk,
you might get Big E, you mightget you know Logan Paul.
You might spend $50 on thosepacks and not get the LA Knight
that gets you in to that liveevent match.
So it's like, well, do youspend another 50 bucks to try to

(22:27):
get LA night so you can do thatone live event match?
Plus, your son needs 124 starsfrom those matches.
So getting LA night for ahundred dollars is five stars.
You still are 119 stars short.
So got to do it again and againand again and again.
Are you gonna spend $3,000 tounlock that John Cena if, like,

(22:52):
your luck is that bad?

Speaker 2 (22:55):
and so that's my point and I'm not saying I need
all the characters, but there'slike the when you go to their
page and it shows the store andit shows the purchasables and
there's like a list of like 80of them.
Those are all I need.
And, yes, it's fun to doone-on-one matches and get 14
coins or 50 coins, or if youhave a really good match, you

(23:17):
get 60 coins and you build it upthat way by doing matches.
But at the same time it's likehe just wants to play the game
and there's so many wrestlerstime to play the game, right,
and there's not an option in themenu when you're scrolling to
just click and find and show.
like show ones are collectedonly yeah you know, there's like

(23:43):
you have to scroll throughhundreds of people who have
locks marks in front of them.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
It's it's frustrating marcus, you're making me think
a lot about where my work ethiccomes from, and there's a video
game that popped in my head thatI don't think I've talked about
enough ever on the history ofthe gaming persona.
Would you like to guess whatthat is?
No, I can't wait Mortal Kombat2.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
Best Mortal Kombat ever.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
It's so good.
Now there are three secretcharacters in Mortal Kombat 2.
Is your memory sharp enough toremember the three characters?

Speaker 2 (24:20):
Goro Nope, noob Sabot , yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
Um, this is tough.
We did not rehearse this.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
No, why would we?
We don't rehearse anything.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
We don't even have show notes anymore.
You remember, miss Elizabeth.
Tell me what else you rememberfrom 1992, buddy, oh, I don't
know, man.
Oh you're typing.
Yes, I got you All right, I cantell you.
I mean, it's my story.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
Well, yeah, I'm listening.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
It's Jade tell you.
I mean, it's my story.
Well, yeah, I'm listening.
It's jade smoke and noob sabah.
That's right, um, yep, allright now, as a kid so I'm like
seven years old to ten, duringthe time where I would spend my
afternoon doing this there'sthree.
All three of these charactershave different ways to get a
chance to fight them.
One time, okay, and you can'tunlock them.

(25:19):
You can never play as them.
You're just trying to fightthem, right, and noob say bot is
the one that you have to havethe most dedication to do and
you have to win 50 matches in arow.
And what I would do is I'd turnthe handicap on so that I can

(25:40):
defeat player two with threeuppercuts and I just uppercut,
uppercut, uppercut, round one,win uppercut, uppercut, uppercut
, finish him uppercut.
That's the fastest way that Icould figure out to win one
match.
Do that 50 times and you get tofight the super like souped up,

(26:05):
hyper fast.
Black shadow ninja, noobs daybot.
And there's no micro.
There's no micro transaction tojust get a button to
automatically fight noobs daybot.
Because it's the 90s, we didn'thave micro transactions,
because elder scrolls, oblivion,hadn't decided that we needed

(26:27):
horse armor yet which, by theway, marcus elder scrolls
oblivion segue just came outwith a remake.
Remaster, have you played ityet?

Speaker 2 (26:37):
Well, you know, I didn't play it, but I've seen
plenty of people play it and itlooks amazing because they used
what is it?
Real Engine 5?
Unreal?
Yeah, unreal 5.
Absolutely, and it's amazing,like what they did.
It's completely.
I wouldn't even call it aremaster, it's basically a
remake.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
It's beautiful yeah, it's a little muddy why they use
the word remaster when it verymuch looks like a remake and it
has some systemic quality oflife improvements that make it a
different game too.
They could have just goneremake.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
But you know why they did.
They didn't call it remake,because then people complain,
call it a remaster and underpromise and over deliver.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
Well, they did that, so really, really happy that
that happened.
Gamers needed it.
Oblivion was one of those gamesthat passed me by when I was a
college student, but the bestman for my wedding and best
friend during my college yearsplayed it all the time and tried
to get me so many times to playand I was just like I don't
have an Xbox, I play PlayStation.

(27:40):
So at the time that was my, mycop out or maybe it was limited
funds, I couldn't buy it.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
It's too busy playing kingdom hearts, I was going to
say but it's one of those gamesthat you you're either.
You can like the game, but it'sone of those games that it's
like I'm playing it or I'm not.
It's not a middle of the roadgame.
For some people, oblivion islike it.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
I know, yeah, like when Nick saw that that's
nostalgia for 2006 too, rightexactly Like Nick.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
He texted me.
I sent him the trailer for it.
He texted me back.

Speaker 1 (28:19):
Oh my god, buying now .
Now I haven't texted.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
They stealth launched it too, like they announced
that it's happening and then, bythe way, it's available now and
well, that's the way to do ittoo, because then you honestly,
all games should do that,because you don't give people
time to destroy the like.
Because, let's face facts, theinternet views happen on

(28:41):
negativity right.
So if they release a trailerand it's like we're not coming
out for a month, people aregonna like, frame by frame,
freeze this trailer and be like,oh look, how, look, how much it
looks like shit, I'm notplaying this game.
They'll get a million views,but then 100,000 people don't
buy it.
But then they show the trailerand at the end of the trailer

(29:03):
out now people are like what?
And it gives people no time togive it a negative review.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
So, to complete my segue and bring it back to the
original mortal kombat 2 story,oblivion is important because it
is the first game to ever havea microtransaction in 2006 era,
and that led to a completechange in how video games are
released, leading to marcus'sproblem in wwe 2K25.

(29:33):
But Mortal Kombat 2 did nothave microtransactions.
All the characters wereplayable, all 12 of them, the
moment you start the game, allthe secret characters.
If you want them, you got towork for them.
There's no shortcut, and thegame was complete upon purchase.
Very different than the worldtoday, and for logistical

(29:55):
reasons, video games can'treally be that way anymore.
But there are games that treatthe gamer like we're just trees
of flowing cash and the gamecompany is trying to take all of
it.
And that is sad too, because itleads to all the psychological
problems that I have to helppeople with as a licensed mental
health professional.

(30:15):
So in a lot of ways, for me,microtransactions are the very
worst part of being a gamer froma health and wellness
perspective, and I just want tocall that out because you know
it connects to your problem.
It connects to every game thatcomes out, because you know it
connects to your problem.
It connects to every game thatcomes out, really, except for
the game that I'm playing rightnow, which is not Oblivion.

(30:39):
I have been playing ClaireObscure, expedition 33.
And, oh my gosh, marcus, I amhooked, dude there's so much.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
There's so much for me to say on this.
Okay, I didn't know anythingabout this game Me either.
All right, nobody did.
It was another stealth launchby Xbox, and Well, I'm playing

(31:13):
on PS5, but yeah, no, yeah, no,no.
but it's an xbox studio game,I'm pretty sure.
Okay, got gotcha right.
So there was another stealthlaunch.
They just fucking launched thegame.
There was no, I didn't knowanything about this game.
And so I saw it and I'm likewhat is this?
And I looked at it and I firstlooked at it.

(31:35):
I'm like, is this another souls?
Like like, what is this?
And then the video showed this,like girl, like uh, like spider
manning across or like uh, whatare those?
yeah, it's like a grapple, likea magical grapple so grapple,
and then it goes into a bossbattle and I looked at it and

(31:56):
I'm watching, going wait aminute, is this turn-based?
It is, and I'm like, oh my god,I gotta see if doc is playing
it.
And then the next second, ontwitter or youtube, something
popped up and it was you playingthe game yeah and I'm like, oh

(32:16):
my god, and then I tuned intoyour stream and it it's so
satisfying watching because it'ssuch, it's a, it's like this.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
Right here is the definition of 2025 turn-based
game it's so good because otherturn-based games that have been
really good for me and my growthPersona, final Fantasy these
are my games.
They're my favorite games andturn-based is not always the

(32:48):
most fun, because you make yourchoices and then you wait for
the computer to make theirchoices and those choices happen
to you and it's really justtrading blows and then hopefully
your attacks hit harder andtheir characters go down right.
But in this game you have todecide am I going to dodge, am I

(33:15):
going to try to parry andreturn it with a counter?
You do not just stand there andtake the shot like in wrestling
.
Marcus, some of the silliestthings that we see are like
punch, punch, punch, punch andthey're just hitting each other
in the side of the face.
No one is attempting to blockanything.
Right, which is like boxing,taekwondo, karate 101 you learn

(33:38):
how to block.
You don't just take shots toyour face.
Okay, uh, but it's, it's fun towatch.
You know it's part of theshtick of professional wrestling
.
Uh, in this turn base you do notjust take shots to the face.
In fact it is so bad.
When you take a direct hit youdie.

(34:00):
Your health bars do react in away that reminds me a lot of
elden ring right you have.
You have to stay alive and notget hit by the big hits.
You can't get hit by three ofthe small hits.
You have to treat your life andyour health bar like it's
precious for everyone in yourparty.
And it's all about timing andI'm bad at it, but I love it, I

(34:23):
can't stop.
And the mythological storyMarcus.
It's about gods and humanity.
It's about fate.
It's about our relationshipbetween our life and our death
and understanding that life isprecious and limited.
And it's also about I'm notjust going to sit here and let

(34:46):
the gods send death right at meand just make me blip Thanos
style.
I'm going to spend the lastyear of my life trying to change
this so everyone else has afuture.
That's so powerful that is.
I have man Like if I was therock I'd be going smacking my

(35:07):
arms Like right here, you'd seethe goosebumps Like.
I am a sucker for therelationship between mortality
and immortality, gods and humansand nature.
It's a big part of my book andnow that's a big part of my
identity and this game isseriously making me think.

(35:33):
After I finish this game, do Ihave all the new games in my
head that I need to continue thejourney again?
one more book continue thejourney too right, like I don't
know what it would be.
I mean, I, okay, I know whatit's going to be called, but
we're not ready for that yet.

(35:53):
Marcus, you're just going tohave to keep listening to Gaming
Persona for a little whilelonger.
Friends, aww, aww.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
I thought we were going to get a reveal.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
We will just not today.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
You know, I wonder.
I always think about what, like?
I've never written a book,right, so do you make it the
gamers?
Boa, no, no, that's silly,that's just no.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
I would say I don't know, memoirs of a working class
nerd no, no that's gotta be it,marcus.
That word was yours for yearsand I never hear you say it
anymore, because we don't fightraid bosses together, and it's a
tragedy tragedy.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
I, I guess for me.
Hey, I I don't know if, ifanything, in your next book I
want to write a paragraph aboutsomething that adds to it,
because my view and your view isdifferent, but like you want to
, co-write a book with me.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
No, I'm not a writer, oh I am not a writer, come on.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
Well, neither is anyone with that attitude well,
I can have the ai write it forme, but oh, that's gross yeah, I
know that.
So my point to you is, if Iwrote a paragraph, it would be
something and it would just belike quotation marks, like said
by the man who said Boomba foryears.
Right, whatever it is.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
Marcus, you did write content that's in the gamer's
journey.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
I know.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yeah, you're part of the sequence of events of all
the people sharing theirpersonal stories about what
games meant for them at criticalperiods of their life.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
Yes, I understand, but anyways.
But my point is this.
I'm circling back to Claire 33.
Is that what it's called,Claire 33?

Speaker 1 (37:49):
Claire Obscure, expedition 33.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
Okay, we're just going to call claire 33 because
no, it's expedition 33 if you'reshortening it all right.
Expedition 33.
Yeah, all I hear on yourstreams and your videos is this
is a mythological wonder likethe.
It warms my heart because ofthe mythological background of

(38:12):
this and I'm laughing because,in your like, I could write a
book about just this game.
I need to start writing and I,marcus, did.
You know I wanted to put anextra 47 games in my book, but I
couldn't.
I had to stop because there wasso much.
But now this Expedition 33 ismaking me want to write more and

(38:33):
add those 47 books I could, or47 games I couldn't add the last
time, but I can add this time.
In the gamer's journey torevenge of the journey.
Oh no, it would be.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
The journey strikes back I mean, I would correct
there's nothing to correct therethat that's essentially me.
Well, I know.
Bravo, marcus, you don't evenneed me, you can just record
this and, like, talk to yourself, you can have a.
You can have like a, a buckethat that you wear and do the

(39:05):
thing people do on TikTok, wherethey talk to themselves in
different outfits, and that canbe the podcast.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
No, I like having you here.
Oh, that's so nice even youknow I yeah anyway, I guess all
right.
So let me back up to expedition33.
What is it about?

Speaker 1 (39:24):
there's.
Everyone lives on an islandcalled gloomier oh, that was the
relevancy like the hot no, notwrong wrong island, like the
candlestick from Beauty and theBeast, okay, and there is a god
called the Painteress and shepaints things into existence and
you can see her far off in thedistance, on the mainland of the

(39:45):
continent.
And there's this arch, andinside that arch is a glowing
number.
And one day this numberappeared and it was a hundred,
and then everybody that was, um,that age vanished.
Thanos style, like into dustand rose petals.
You just, you know, like, likethe blip, and then the number

(40:09):
goes down to 99.
And every year the paint dressshows up, this repaints the
number to the next number lower,and this has been going on for
77 years.
The number at the beginning ofthe game goes from 34 to 33,
which means everybody that's 33vanishes.

(40:32):
Okay, okay.
And then the people who are 32spend the last year of their
life sailing over to thecontinent to try to fight their
way to that number.
And whatever is there, theydon't know, they're called
expeditions and they want tofight whatever it is to try to
save humanity, get rid of thatnumber and make it so the

(40:54):
children and the young adultscan live beyond the age of 33.
Because if they don't stop it.
You're going to get to thepoint where your oldest humans
are seven year olds, and thensix year olds and five year olds
, and what are they going to doso like you're at the years
where you're in the physicalprime of your life, coming up,

(41:17):
and if you can't fight your waythrough that, then humanity's
done Done.
And it's just such a gooddiscussion about accepting fate
or fighting for destiny, destinyand believing that if you have
a mission you can overcomeanything, but then realizing how

(41:40):
tough of a challenge that is toovercome anything.
And the monster design, theworld design.
It's a beautiful game and I knowI don't always talk about
graphics it is beautiful it'sgorgeous and the storytelling 10
out of 10, unless we can breakthe scale and go up to like 12
out of 10,.
I love everything about thegame.

(42:01):
There's leveling up RPG system,there's gear and outfits,
there's equipping passive skills, there's equipping abilities
and really just finding newparty members.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
It's got everything that I want in a video game the
cool thing that when I, when youwere watching, I watched you
die or lose a lot, right.
So you were fighting this likeguy and you're like man.
You're like, oh, you were likeoh, this guy is definitely a
boss, this guy's definitely aboss.
And you're like oh, this guy isdefinitely a boss, this guy is
definitely a boss.
And you're like okay, I got tokill the flowers.

(42:36):
And you kill the flowers andthe shield broke.
And then you're like all right,damage time, blah, blah, blah.
And then you were talking to meand you're like Marcus, in this
game you actually have to dodgethe attacks and if you don't,
you get smashed up.
And I'm like oh, like, oh, snap, this is a pretty cool mechanic
.
Like that is a really coolmechanic for me, where you're

(42:57):
just not pushing a button andsaying dodge.
You're like like in the menus,you're actually like have to
dodge the attacks anyway, yeah.
And then all of a sudden you'relike oh, my god, there's like
six flowers now and you becauseyou didn't clear this the I'm
gonna call it the dps check,like the dps check on the boss,

(43:17):
because if you don't get so faron the boss, you're gonna spawn
more, or like it's.
It's just an enraged mechanicin an mmo.
Yeah right, yeah, and youdidn't.
And then, as soon as there wasall of those flowers, you were
toast.
It was like the old Castlevaniagames Game over.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
Did I die on that attempt?
Yes, yeah.
Well, I got the next one.
That was such a cool.
So the boss fights aren'tactually repetitive at all.
They're all unique and some ofthem are optional.
I have been going down pathsthat you don't actually have to
go down because you want to findall the new abilities.

(44:01):
You unlock new abilities foryour party.
That way, you unlock newoutfits, which are just cosmetic
but very fun.
And it's so neat because everytime they swing at you is
another attempt to dodge.
So they might be putting in afour hit combo to like hook,
uppercut, overhand, overhand,and you have to choose with each

(44:26):
hit.
Am I going to take it, which isa dumb choice Am I going to
dodge, am I going to parry or amI going to jump?
And if you choose the wrong one, even if your timing's right,
you get nailed Right.
And it's such a smart way tothink about turn-based combat.
And now that we have this, Ireally wonder what's next for

(44:53):
games that have historicallybeen all about turn-based combat
.
Could we get a Pokemon that's alittle bit more active?
Could we get a Persona or aFinal Fantasy that borrows a
little bit of this, because allthese franchises are evolving in
different ways, and this is new.

(45:15):
I have never played a game likethis.
Marcus and I play a lot ofgames in this genre.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
Yeah, I mean the excitement that you have playing
.
It reminds me so much of youplaying persona five Royale.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
Yeah, that was.
That was when my name changed.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
Right, I remember that.
And you, you know I'm going tobe real Persona was not my cup
of tea, right At all, yeah, butreal persona was not my cup of
tea right at all.
Yeah, what?
But watching you play it withyour excitement made it awesome.
Like I got into the gamebecause you were excited.

(46:06):
But watching you play expedition33 every move, you play
expedition 33 every it's sothrilling, something right the
thing is I think a turn-basedgame for you you're good you,
and streaming is really goodbecause it gives you those lulls

(46:27):
to where you can conversate andit's I don't want to say it's
slower pace, but it's definitelya slower pace.
It's not like elden ring, whereyou're in it like blinders on
go or final fantasy 16.
Right, yeah, you're you, youcan battle and then you run
around and you can conversate,or even during the turn based

(46:48):
combat, you can take a second toexplain what you're doing, even
though it's very intense foryou because the game's moving
forward.

Speaker 1 (46:55):
Yeah, because if it's my turn, it at least will not
move on until I decide to choosemy action.
So if something happens in thechat, there's a good question If
someone redeems points to do ageek therapy card, or actually.
Marcus, I put a new one in awhile ago.
No one's ever cashed it inuntil today, and it's this there

(47:19):
is a cash in on my channel.
I'm holding up a stress ballthat is actually a D 20 stress
ball and I created this thingwhere people can use their
channel points and I will rollthe stress ball, get a number.
I have a spreadsheet with 50psychology topics for gamers and

(47:41):
then obviously it's a D 20.
So I'll get one of those topics, highlight it, move it out and
then the numbers will move downRight.
So now there's 49 topics leftand they.
They did it and I was able tojust pause what I'm doing, put a
little title above my head onobs, so that we have the title
and just talk about and wetalked about the psychological

(48:03):
experience of playing vr gamesfor like five to ten minutes
uninterrupted, because I wasplaying a game that allows me to
do that.
It was a really good talk too.
I'm gonna have to clip it andput it out places so people can
hear me talk about, right, mylove, my love of vr games and
all the things it does for us.
Um man, everything's justcoming together right now, but,

(48:26):
marcus, I have to add somesadness to our episode.
You know what did not cometogether for me?
Oh, wrestlemania night too.
Oh boy, we're going there andyou know, what?
Yeah, Because our last episodethat we recorded, even though we
were, we released them out ofsequence.
We really got a debrief onWrestleMania 41.

(48:49):
Oh my God.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
We got time?
Oh no, I have nothing but time.
Oh my God, we got time?
Oh no, I have nothing but time.
Nothing but time, because youwere.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
I want to cut you off really quick.
I got to say something becauseyou were talking about how using
your summon ghost spiritwhisper thing in Radagon's fight
in Elden Ring makes it so easyand cheap and whatever.
Radagon's fight in Elden Ringmakes it so easy and cheap and
whatever.
And I would just like to talkabout three different matches at
WrestleMania 41.

(49:21):
Alright, how do you thinkDominic Mysterio feels right now
?

Speaker 2 (49:30):
Top of the world.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
Why.
Because he's theIntercontinental champion do you
think, one-on-one, he beatsbraun breaker to become
intercontinental champion?
No, that's not why he won it.
Why did he win it?
to create the tension with himand finn baller and finn okay
you're talking about backstagestuff, like the script writers,

(49:52):
but like if we look at the matchlike it's actual competitive
sport.
Why did Dominic Mysterio winthe fatal four way?
Because he summoned Finn Balorwith a little bell.
Let him go do the fight.
Everyone forgot he was on theturnbuckle.
Frog splash One, two, three andno.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
Yeah, but that's okay .
But that is a fatal four-waymatch.
They're throwing four wrestlersin there for more people to do
the work and to give everybody aspotlight and then give the
uncharacteristic person the winfor the drama.
We it's basically just a.
It's a soap opera, right, and alot of people don't like

(50:40):
dominic mysterio.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
I actually like him I love him so much.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
He might be my favorite wrestler, right, right
like he's so skinny and scrawnyhe does like he he's a good
wrestler, but he's stillterrible right.
And I still think he's eddieguerrero's son.
I think it's just a lie becausehe looks just like him.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
I think his ray's wife definitely like did a thing
with the thing, yeah, like andthey've been lying ever since.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
But anyway, I think, dominic, for I think he gets
shit on so much, but he's just,he's another jd mcdouble where
he just gets power bombed aroundand like a rag doll and he just
takes it, he just works andgiving him.
Listen, man, when he was thenxt north american champion the

(51:33):
heat he got, everywhere he wentand it was great and the
craziest thing is people atwrestlemania were cheering him
so loud he came back out yeah,he got an encore curtain call
right, that's what I'm saying.
So for me, I'm happy he wonbecause, honestly, I think finn

(51:53):
baller needs to move on from thejudgment day and do finn baller
, because I do think finn ballerneeds a belt can we get him his
song back though, because thatentrance was sick and I miss it
yes, yeah, um, but but I believethe just to circle back, the,

(52:14):
the Fatal 4-Way is for all four.
It's to put four people in apay-per-view or a match so
everybody gets showcased LikePenta's going to get the belt,
but they can't give it to himyet.
They need the stories toprogress.
You know what I mean.
And Bron Breaker is clearly onhis way to undisputed champion,
or probably world heavyweightchampion next.

Speaker 1 (52:36):
He's in a different spot now for sure than he was at
WrestleMania.
You want to talk about that.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
No, let's talk about WrestleMania.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
All right.
So my next thing to ask you,just to try to help you feel
better about Elden Ring how doyou think Seth Rollins feels?

Speaker 2 (52:58):
ring.
How do you think Seth Rollinsfeels?
Well, I think he Seth.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
Rollins is probably my favorite wrestler right now.
He also rang a bell andsummoned Paul Heyman well, I
think that.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
Well, I think if you watch the, the, the lead up to
Wrestlemania, the things thatwere being said weren't false.
You know, roman Reigns leftPaul Heyman to get powerbombed
through a table.
He didn't call him.
He never contacted him after helost his belt.
He used him until he didn'tneed him, right.

(53:26):
Cm Punk left Paul Heyman all byhimself at the WWE.
When CM Punk left there, thestuff that Seth Rollins is
saying is all true stuff.
Granted, it's for the story.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
But my point is, everything Seth Rollins is
saying is true and, and you know, I think and this is my hot
take I think Seth Rollins is thebest wrestler of our generation
, like the generation of now,when Roman Reigns is showing up
to defend his title once everythree months.

(54:04):
Who's wrestling every week?
Carrying the show?
Seth Rollins.
Who's wrestling every week?
Carrying the show Seth RollinsAEWWE Seth Rollins?
Who's wrestling every week?
Carrying the show Seth RollinsAEWWE Seth Rollins?
When CM Punk left, who pickedup the pieces?

(54:25):
Seth Rollins.
So everything that Seth Rollinsis doing is true.
Yeah, and I think that is the.
I think that batch night onemain event is the match of
WrestleMania.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
Oh, it definitely was , because someone else had a
summon that just made no sensefor wrestling, if we want to
talk about john cena, so sad.
Um, my point, marcus, in caseyou didn't get my connection

(55:03):
with video games and yourconfidence in elden ring is a
win, is a win no matter who yousummon to help you.
And you've got this becausesooner or later we're going to
have an episode of the gamingpersona where you are elden lord
, and I cannot wait for that tohappen.
Well, yeah, um I meanclickety-clack, clickety-clack,

(55:32):
clickety-clack.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
I'm typing in the match for Cena, the Cena-Cody
match, so if you bring somethingup I can like.
It's playing like thehighlights are playing.
There were highlights in thatmatch Well it's just like the
highlights of the match.
Let me say that Well, okay, Ithink it goes deeper match.

(55:57):
Let me say that well, okay, Ithink, I think it goes deeper.
So if we're just ratingwrestlemania, the john cena cody
rhodes match was big enough towhere you didn't need travis
scott or the rock.
That is a the fact that wedidn't get the rock well, right,
well, that's.
Uh, I'm not even going theretonight because that'll just
start a whole other tangent.
I'm talking about the match.
Like, john Cena turning heeland taking the belt from Cody

(56:19):
Rose is enough of a story thatit didn't need any extra.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
No-transcript.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
We are halfway through the year, so that does
equate to almost weekly.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
Almost Well.
No, we're five months in.
There's 12 months in a year.
Six out of 12 is halfway.
Marcus, I understand, but mypoint is we're having another
part-time champion and andsomebody actually said to me a
good friend of mine, james thatI watch all my wrestling at home
with um.

(57:23):
He said it's gonna be a nicebreak, and I disagree.
I liked seeing cody rose.
Whether you like cody rose, orthe fact that he was showing up
yeah, but like you do, somepeople don't and the fact that
some of his him not showing upevery week the show is less

(57:45):
because of it.
You know what I mean.
Like we're really in thatwrestle at post.
Wrestlemania drought, yeah, andthat is whatWrestleMania
drought yeah, and that is whatI'm not happy about.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
Yeah, I was emotionally upset after night
two of WrestleMania.
I just was expecting more, andwhen it didn't happen, the
outcome was fine, actually fine,actually like that's not what
it was.
I'm actually very used to heelchampions ending wrestlemania it

(58:20):
happens all the time right andand it creates that momentum for
us that now our heroes havesomething still to fight for.
And in real life, the bad guyswin a lot a a lot a lot.
You know, like if you're notcheating, you aren't trying.
You know that stuff is provedcorrect way more often than it's

(58:41):
disproven.
In my opinion, as much as Iwish, as a mental health
professional, I could championthe other side and be like hey,
you got this, you don't got this, the deck is loaded, it's
stacked against you Right.
It's all the way from ourlegislation to our financial
systems to everything.
It is stacked against you.
You have to be really grittyand roll up your sleeves and try

(59:05):
, but also be innovative andcreative, bring everything to
the table just to make a stepforward in so many areas in life
.
And Cody Rhodeses, in the storythey wrote for that match, fell
victim to the things I'm saying, right, so that's okay, because
reality reflects that too, andcody rhodes will very likely be

(59:26):
the wwe champion again.
We will get to hear the whoawith the belt around his waist,
john cena's quitting at the endof the year.
He will not be the champion fora long, long time.
In the grand scheme of things,and ultimately I only brought
this up because all these peoplewon these matches with help

(59:48):
from other people and at the endof the day, they won.
And that's my number one thingI always talk with you about,
with that silly question aboutsummoning an Elden Ring, is just
win the fight.

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
Okay.
So can I ask you a question?
Yeah, have you ever played DarkSouls 3?
Nope.
Dark Souls 2?
Nope.
Bloodborne Nope.
Dark Souls 1?
Nope, there's no summons inthose games.
Okay.
So I have played demon soulsokay, no summons in that game.

(01:00:24):
And my I guess my point is thesouls game, but I beat demon
souls three times you're betterthan me, I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
Well, I haven't played it, but I guess my point
is I feel like if I'm going togo play Dark Souls 3, I need to
know the mechanics withouthaving somebody absorbing my
hits.
For me.
Like a big milestone for me.
Okay, here's my plan.

(01:00:57):
I need to beat Radagon withouta summon.
I am going to use a summon onthe Elden Beast, but I need to
beat Radagon without it Because,like for me, because if I
summon during radagon, thatsummon is going to die during

(01:01:17):
elden beast and elden beast isway harder than radagon you know
, it's true right, so if I so,that's my, that's my dilemma.
So, uh, what's the guy before?
Uh, radagon the first, or aloo,well, who?
Who is it really, though, thefirst?

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
elden lord godfrey.
So what's?

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
the guy before Radagon, the first Horolu.
Well, who is it really, though?
The first Elden Lord Godfrey,godfrey, yeah, and then he turns
into Horolu.
That was hard, that was anawesome fight, but again, I used
a summon when Horolu came andit made it a cakewalk Like.
It was like jokingly easy.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
Maybe that's because you're a high enough level to
where you can deal out damagefast enough.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
No that my summon just handled all the work.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
Your summon acted as the tank in a relationship
between tank and DPS.
Yes yes, it did and it made mesurvive.
The psychology of that isreally telling here, because you
have been the tank in my raidteams for years and I have been
the dps.

(01:02:24):
It is always a bad thing whenthe boss is looking me in my
face because that means hekilled you, right, that means
we're toast.
I don't get I don't get athrill rush or sense of
accomplishment from the bosslooking at me and dying.
I get a sense of accomplishmentfrom standing back throwing

(01:02:45):
lightning bolts as fast as I canand watching it die while it
tries to smack you in the face.
So maybe I summon thingsbecause I miss you, marcus.
Oh, maybe.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
Maybe it's just one of those things and the science
experiment worked.
I guess my point is that's mygoal I have to beat Radagon
without a summon so then I cansummon in the Elden Beast and
become Elden Lord.
And then the next feeling is doI go back and kill before I go

(01:03:21):
to new game?
Plus, do I go back and kill, uh, the guy that's called the lord
of blood?
I don't know who that is.
Mog yes, go kill mog, so thatwhen I decide to do the dlc, I
can do it at any point, becauseI don't know who that is.
Moog yes, go kill Moog, so thatwhen I decide to do the DLC, I
can do it at any point, becauseI don't think I want to start
the game over.
You know, there's some thingsthat I didn't do and maybe like

(01:03:44):
later, but I really want to trya Dark Souls game because I do.
I really like them, but I thinkthe next time I play a dark
souls game I'm going to do it onmy PlayStation or Xbox in the
living room.

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
Yeah, Shadow of the Earth tree is a really great
experience with some greatenvironments and good boss
mechanics and stuff.
So if you can take out Moog,then you would have access to
all those areas and it's like aanother game.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
I just I think I need a break from Elden ring Cause I
don't have a lot like before,when I was streaming, I had like
10 to 12 hours a week of gamingtime.
I might have three hours rightnow, yeah, maybe four, probably
four hours, so not including thetime I spend with my son.
Yeah, but that's.

(01:04:39):
That's not enough for me toinvest into shadow of the earth
tree okay, I can see that also.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
It has been quite a long journey of you being
through all the different levelsof motivation for Elden.
Ring including.
I don't want to play this.
You've told me I'm never goingto be Elden Lord when.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
I'm done, go ahead, you're gonna get there.
No, when I beat the game, I, Iwant you to help me write a book
.
No, like I don't know what Iwould call it.
I, I, you know, maybe like likea blog post, but somewhere I

(01:05:20):
can like post it and be like anon, maybe a script, and I make
a video about elden ring rightfor youtube.
But like, I need help writingthe script because I'm not great
with that stuff.
But I want to write somethingor make a video talking about my
feelings about this game.

(01:05:41):
And you said it perfectly.
Like I've done the full circleof this game.
Yeah, and there's so manyemotions in it.
Like I'll still, to this day,stop myself from walking into my
office because I'm like youknow what.
I just don't want to get allstressed out playing the game.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
Yeah, it can be a very stressful game to play.

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
But then when I'm playing it, I don't even find
myself to be stressful anymore.
Yeah, you know, because I'mjust like all right, I know I'm
going to die a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
I don't even care about the runes and just move on
.
You know, on the topic of EldenRing and on the topic of
Expedition 33, there's been alittle bit of dialogue about the
difficulty of Expedition 33 andhow some people say it reminds
them of Elden Ring.
Some people say they're noteven the same thing.
So stop it.
But one thing that I will saythat both games have in common,
and that's all I'm saying here.
Right, they're different games,they're different play styles.

(01:06:39):
For sure they're not the samegenre.
You know I break down genres ina lot of different things
they've written and they're notthe same.
But one thing that's differentis making a mistake with your
controller can lead to you beingdead in three seconds from that

(01:07:01):
moment, right or less.
You know sometimes less, andthese games teach you that it's
important to take advantage ofevery chance you get to do
something that makes adifference, because you don't
know how many of those chancesyou're going to get.
That's a really nice way tolook at life too.
You don't just quit when onething doesn't go your way.

(01:07:24):
You keep going.
Hopefully, you still believe inyourself, you give yourself the
opportunity to succeed, andthat's all you can ask yourself
moment to moment, day by day,and I learned that mostly from
video games, and it's helped mea lot in other areas of life,
and so that's why I love gameslike Elden Ring.

(01:07:47):
That's why I'm falling in lovewith my new game, expedition 33.
And that's why I love MMOs,that's why I love playing with
my friends and the times I'vegotten to play with you, and
that's why this podcast existsultimately.
So I.
I think there's a time and placefor difficulty well, I had to

(01:08:08):
turn the difficulty down fromthe expert because my reaction
time isn't where it needs to be,but I did try it and I can see
the thrill.
And someday, marcus, someday, Ihope I've learned all the
monsters.
I need to come back and do thathighest one.

Speaker 2 (01:08:29):
But I don't know, and that's funny to me because I
have zero thrill in playingsomething at the hardest
difficulty, but yet I'm playingElden Ring.

Speaker 1 (01:08:42):
Well, there is no difficulty, and that's right.
It's only on hard.

Speaker 2 (01:08:46):
Yeah, but I'm going to circle back to wrestling.
Okay, what did you think aboutthe Jey Uso-Gunther match?

Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
I think it's really weird how they ended it.
I'm glad Jey Uso won.
You know I'm not a fan of theheadlock being the end of a
match and even though theyreversed their roles, the
headlock was the end of thematch and I don't know if
there's long-term storytellinghere like maybe, yeah, maybe

(01:09:26):
gunther tapped out because hegot hit by so many spears and
Uso splashes that he, his bodywas just done and he just tapped
out quick out of selfpreservation.
Like this is not my night, I'mdone with this.
And J Uso became worldheavyweight champion and that's
so fun, that's super fun.

(01:09:47):
So not a fan of the headlock asa move.
So that's on me, right?
That's not wwe's fault, that'snot gunther's fault.

Speaker 2 (01:10:01):
Um, but they showed a couple times where as soon as
gunther gets put in a submissionhold, he taps out in other
matches from the past.
So I think they were too farapart for that story to be told,
that he can't handle being likein a submission himself.
I felt as if that match was100% rushed.

(01:10:24):
I felt like they rushed it Likelike they wanted so bad to stay
on time that they like okayguys, come on.
Let's like okay guys, come on,let's go, let's go, let's go,
let's go.
It just didn't feel.
I feel like that match wouldhave been so much better if it

(01:10:45):
was played at night.

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
Maybe, but you set the stage for that comment when
we did our prep show forWrestleMania.
You like the nighttimeWrestleMania matches.
I think it's neat having one ortwo matches that are clearly
daytime.
It's a fun aesthetic to seethem outside.

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
I personally hate that.
See them outside.
I personally hate that.
Okay, I want a roof like, and Iwant it loud from cheering like
you can barely hear peoplecheering.
It's so many people and it's sobig like it's.
I, like, I, I like a moreclosed in intimate event like
the royal rumble in indianapoliswas awesome because the roof

(01:11:31):
was closed and it was you.
It felt like you were inside,even though there were 60 000
people there 70 000 people thereoh yeah, I mean the the
baseball field in tampa when Iwent to the royal rumble.

Speaker 1 (01:11:46):
I don't know if it even opens, but it was closed
and yeah, oh no, it doesn't.

Speaker 2 (01:11:50):
No, it doesn't open yeah, it was.

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
It was closed, it was very loud.
Um, very cool experience.
So I get what you're sayingthere.
Um, yeah, I mean that match isnot what is memorable about this
year's wrestlemania to me, butjay uso is a fun wrestler to see
and see his growth, see histrajectory.

(01:12:14):
The last five years when I cameback to watching wrestling it's
been really great and there's alot of people from WrestleMania
that I'm happy for.
So you know it's just fun.

Speaker 2 (01:12:27):
What else was there?
What was the next match afterJey Uso and Gunther oh?

Speaker 1 (01:12:32):
man I don't remember.

Speaker 2 (01:12:34):
I should have done the prep.

Speaker 1 (01:12:36):
I don't think we should review every single match
, though All right.

Speaker 2 (01:12:40):
Well, the match of the whole weekend for me, other
than the Seth Rollins, the Roman.

Speaker 1 (01:12:51):
Reigns the CM Punk fight.

Speaker 2 (01:12:52):
Other than that, my number two is the Rhea Ripley,
Bianca Belair, EO Sky match.
Yeah, EO Sky is nasty Likethose women showed up.

Speaker 1 (01:13:07):
Best match of WrestleMania for me, I think.

Speaker 2 (01:13:10):
Yeah, it was.
If the Seth Rollins match wasnumber one, the Bianca match was
1.1, right Like it's right.
There they worked.
Outcome was great.
The match itself was amazing.

(01:13:32):
It was the right finish.
It's funny to see the crowdturning on bianca belair it's.
It's awesome to see that rear.
You can see that rear ripley isgoing to be going after eo sky
but they're like have thislittle partnership right now.
It's pretty rad what'shappening.

Speaker 1 (01:13:54):
Yeah, I agree, I had a lot of fun with that match.
You know, I think it'simportant to include here that
we're just talking about thisbecause we're fans and we love
it.
And even when we are down on amatch, overall I still really
enjoyed the product.
It's because we have emotionalreactions and sometimes things

(01:14:15):
are not what you hope to see,but you still keep watching
because it's compelling to you.

Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
I'm going to relate this to Star Wars, the Old
Republic.
Ooh, okay, I love that game.
Ooh, okay, I love that game andI criticize it because of how
much I love it.
Sure, the difference betweenWWE and SWTOR is that WWE has

(01:14:49):
constant new content.
So I can hate the JohnCena-Travis Scott match, but I
know Monday Night Raw is goingto explain a little bit of it
and I'm going to be able to moveon past it and the next thing
is going to happen.
So there's constant contentcoming where SWOTOR, you get a

(01:15:13):
bug or something that isn'tgreat and it never gets
addressed and it makes peopledwell on the negativity because
they're not getting relief fromthat.
We're in a WWE match.
You can hate that match and hatethe outcome and all that, but
in a couple of days that you'regoing to move past that because

(01:15:34):
there's something new to thatadds to it and you're like okay,
now it's okay I can see thatyou know, and and I'm not
picking on swotor at all when Isay all this, I'm not, it's just
that that's the only thing thatcame to mind that kind of binds

(01:15:54):
them together like the forceyeah, I'm one with the force I
think, and the force is with me.

Speaker 1 (01:16:06):
I believe that what we're talking about on the show
whether it it's sportsentertainment, video games, game
genres, bosses that we can orcannot defeat it really is just
about looking for content thatcreates some kind of
metaphorical parallel thatexplains life to us and makes

(01:16:28):
our moments of joy feel relevantfor who we are as people, our
moments of joy feel relevant forwho we are as people.
So if you're not down with that, I got three words for you
Continue the journey, thank you.