November 20, 2025 • 51 mins
A joke about cows opens the door to something bigger: how we get hooked on stories, why endings are so hard to accept, and what happens when streaming turns play into obligation. We start with the Stranger Things trailer and fan expectations, then jump into the real friction—when our headcanon collides with a creator’s finale. That same tension shows up in games we love: we crave challenge, but we also want our time respected.
From Elden Ring’s dungeon pacing to Final Fantasy VII Rebirth’s sprawling checklists, we unpack how smart checkpointing, clear goals, and optional depth shape whether a 45-minute session feels thrilling or wasted. Claire Obscure becomes our case study in obsession, with a late-game twist that expands the world and rewires how you plan builds, approach difficulty, and read story beats. One of us finished under-leveled and learned to parry out of necessity; the replay flipped the experience into empowerment. That contrast reveals how design meets player psychology in the moments that keep us thinking about a game at work, in the car, and long after midnight.
We also talk frankly about streaming. The “prison sentence” mindset creeps in when you pick games for chat instead of curiosity. Our fix is a hybrid plan: keep one on-stream game for narrative continuity and play a second passion pick off-stream, then bring highlights, analysis, and story beats back to the community. Along the way we swap memories of SWTOR podcast commutes, Horizon’s platinum chase, Mortal Kombat’s nostalgic rewind features, and a few spicy debates about Fortnite SBMM and map fatigue.
If you care about game design that respects your time, the psychology of finales, and finding joy on and off stream, you’ll feel seen here. Subscribe, share with a friend who’s stuck on what to play next, and drop a review telling us the last game that took over your brain.
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You can watch us play games LIVE and join our communities to get more connection from every episode:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Okay, guys, I got a question for you.
Okay, what do you got?
How do cows count?
SPEAKER_00 (00:10):
I don't know.
How do cows count?
A calculator.
A calculator.
Wow.
We haven't had one of those yet.
SPEAKER_02 (00:22):
But that's okay.
That's okay.
It was fantastic.
SPEAKER_01 (00:27):
My mind is blown.
I don't even know where to gofrom that.
SPEAKER_02 (00:30):
I asked Rhino what how cows count, and he goes,
Cow.
SPEAKER_03 (00:36):
But he didn't get the collater part.
That's okay.
SPEAKER_01 (00:41):
His enthusiasm is impressive though.
Yeah, where do you think he getsit from?
His mother.
SPEAKER_02 (00:48):
No, that would be the negativity.
SPEAKER_01 (00:54):
You're married to the negativitron from Little Big
Planet?
SPEAKER_02 (00:57):
Yes.
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (00:59):
Are you guys stranger things fans?
Yeah.
From Netflix.
You know, the show about theupside down.
And Eleven and Waffles.
And 1980s.
D D.
SPEAKER_02 (01:24):
Wow, that was a compelling conversation.
SPEAKER_01 (01:28):
I am a huge fan of Stranger Things.
Where are you going with this?
SPEAKER_02 (01:31):
So they released the season five trailer, and I think
I've watched it nine times andwatched like four videos.
Because I'm hoping they don'tscrew up the final season like
every show f screws up the finalseason.
Can I share a hypothesis?
SPEAKER_00 (01:50):
Of course you can.
SPEAKER_01 (01:52):
I think that final seasons are actually fine.
It's that us as human beingshave a problem letting go and
seeing stories as final.
SPEAKER_02 (02:04):
I can see your point, and I'm going to raise
you 20 and say that I thinkfinal seasons are good, but
people have their own mind madeup on how their show is going to
end or their game is going toend or something like that.
So you can't ever live up toyour own hype.
(02:25):
Like me with the Mass Effect 3,we talked about this before.
Like I loved one, two, I lovedthree, but the way it ended, I
was just like, that wasn't how Iwould have done it.
And move on.
Just if they ever did Knights ofthe Old Republic remake, they
would have to end it the exactsame way, or it would be trash
to me.
Because I know how that ends.
SPEAKER_01 (02:48):
Why would they change that?
Because they are giving peoplechoices.
SPEAKER_03 (02:55):
We have bright side, dark side.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (03:03):
Oh, he coughed.
But anyway, so I'm a littleobsessed right now with the
whole Strangers Things StrangerThings hype.
And I didn't even know thattrailer came out.
Dude, you gotta watch it.
It's wild.
Okay.
Like you definitely have towatch it.
The other thing is tomorrownight I'm going to Friday Night
(03:25):
SmackDown in Albany, New York.
SPEAKER_01 (03:27):
Oh, that's cool.
Ooh.
unknown (03:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:31):
Have they announced anything that's going to be
there?
SPEAKER_02 (03:33):
So Jay Uso versus the Miz in the last time is now
tournament.
And then LA Night, yeah, versuswe don't know because Nick
Aldous wouldn't say who they'rewrestling against.
So if I had a guess, it's goingto be a secret, like a top
secret guest.
I'm going with Joe Hendrybecause they said I'm not going
(03:56):
to say his name.
And that's like his gimmick.
You say his name, he appears.
So I think I love Joe Hendry.
Yeah.
Chris.
Yeah.
He's going to appear.
So then B Fab versus JadeCargill.
Who killers?
Who cares?
And Cody Rhodes will be there,which I'm believe it or not, out
of all the wrestlers, I'm themost excited for Cody Rhodes
(04:16):
because I've never gotten to seeCody Rhodes live.
So and this was like spur of themoment, like last minute, last
Friday.
I was drinking a beer.
We were watching Friday NightSmackDown, and I looked because
Albany's only an hour and 20minutes from me.
And I looked and I got ticketsfor 50 bucks a piece in the
(04:36):
lower bowl.
That's crazy.
It's because they're struggling.
Raw is like the A, anddefinitely SmackDown's really
like a D.
So like they're having troubleselling tickets right now.
And they had a me plus wait,three plus me, so four ticket
(04:59):
price, and it was like$56 aticket.
And I'm lower bowl like seventhrow.
So it's perfect.
SPEAKER_01 (05:05):
That's really cool.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (05:06):
And my kids love it and they're excited.
I'm going to throw them in thedad van and I'm buying a pizza,
throwing it on the floor of thedad van.
They're getting plates or drinksand we're cruising.
We're eating pizza while wedrive.
Be safe.
The kids are going to be eatingpizza.
Me, I'll just eat it whenever.
Okay.
Be on the way back.
(05:27):
I have a topic for tonight thatI'd like to talk to.
Okay.
Talk about.
Wait, talk to?
Talk.
I'm talking to you guys.
SPEAKER_01 (05:34):
You can talk to the topic.
SPEAKER_02 (05:35):
Yeah, I want to talk to the topic and I want to talk
about the topic.
SPEAKER_01 (05:38):
Which is what is it?
SPEAKER_02 (05:40):
Oh, I'm sorry.
I was rambling.
SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
No way.
SPEAKER_02 (05:45):
All right.
I want to talk about how gamessuck us in.
Because Doc did not get suckedinto Mass Effect, but he got
sucked into writing a book.
If you guys didn't know, it'scalled The Gamer's Journey and
it's won an award.
But anyway, I'm I get suckedinto certain games.
(06:05):
It doesn't happen super often,but like I got sucked into Swo
Tor, and then I got sucked intoElden Ring.
And now I'm 100% obsessed withClaire Obscure Expedition 33.
SPEAKER_01 (06:22):
Yeah, you really are.
I couldn't drag you out of thegame in order to do the podcast
tonight.
It was funny.
SPEAKER_02 (06:28):
No, I didn't know what time.
So sometimes, Doc, you're like8:45 Eastern.
Sometimes you're 9.15 Eastern,because it just depends on how
much of your coffee is prepared.
And if you get sucked intomaking your coffee and like you
end up chatting with your wifeand like life.
And then it could be 20 minutesbefore you come back, or Doritos
(06:49):
has to take the dog for a walkor whatever.
And most of the time it's methat's late, but I'm just using
you guys as the examples ofbeing late.
And so I was like, Oh, I'll justplay Claire.
And I can't figure out why mycharacter is taking damage on
her first move every turn.
She's taking like a thousand KDPS to herself every single
(07:13):
first turn.
SPEAKER_01 (07:13):
Or I'm unequip everything, unequip everything,
and then just start over.
Re rebuild her.
Yeah, just yeah, it's a goodidea.
I think you'll figure it out.
SPEAKER_02 (07:23):
I'll be doing that.
SPEAKER_01 (07:24):
It's gotta be a weird combination of having this
skill with that skill creates aweird effect because they
conflict with each other.
SPEAKER_02 (07:31):
Sure.
And I've made a decision that assoon as the Steam fall sale
comes out, I'm buying DoritosClaire, just so I can tell you
he's gonna have no choice.
SPEAKER_01 (07:41):
And then Claire was on sale this week.
SPEAKER_02 (07:44):
Yeah.
On Xbox, right?
SPEAKER_01 (07:45):
On Steam.
I got an email about it.
SPEAKER_02 (07:48):
It's not on my list.
SPEAKER_01 (07:49):
It's like 48, 48 dollars or something instead of
60 or something like that.
SPEAKER_02 (07:54):
Autumn sale is coming in a week or so.
So but anyway, so back to myaddiction.
What I'm I want to know, and Iwant to break this down.
Have you guys ever gotten tothat?
Like it's what you can thinkabout all day.
Like, I'm watching build videosjust to like further my
(08:16):
knowledge of the game, eventhough I don't actually do
anything with the build videos,but it's just to keep it in my
head.
Like I think I've watched whatto do in act three videos, like
three or four of them, because Ifeel lost.
But you guys ever get like that?
Do you ever get infatuated withthe game?
SPEAKER_03 (08:34):
Yeah.
I used to a lot.
Used to, so what happened?
That sounds past tense.
SPEAKER_01 (08:44):
Well, I can tell you what I I still could.
I just haven't found the gamethat's going to do it.
And if you are paying attentionto my Twitch channel, it's very
obvious that I don't know what Iwant to play right now.
SPEAKER_02 (08:57):
Bing bing! You know what it is?
You guys want to know?
It's because he's in his prisonsentence right now, and because
he's making a choice of the gamehe placed for his audience
rather than for himself.
That's why.
Prison sentence.
I've been there, done that.
SPEAKER_01 (09:16):
You gotta make bumper stickers or something,
Marcus.
SPEAKER_02 (09:19):
Streaming is a prince's prison sentence.
SPEAKER_01 (09:21):
Dirty, dirty Marcus Mysterio.
SPEAKER_02 (09:24):
No, but I'm serious.
Think about it.
He was playing Fortnite, he wasgetting great numbers.
Yeah, it's a Fortnite's a fungame, and I couldn't play it
every day all day.
I play it with my son.
It gets monotonous.
You know, how many battleroyales can you do in a row?
Five, ten, if you do prettygood, twenty, you know what I
mean?
Before you get tired of it.
SPEAKER_01 (09:44):
On that topic, the Simpsons map is not my jam.
I really liked the map that Istarted playing with a lot.
It was huge, and the matches hadabout 100 people.
The Simpsons map is small,there's about 75 people every
match, and I think a lot ofreally good players returned, or
(10:07):
I got worse.
I don't like the gun selectionbecause some of my favorite guns
are not in the game right now.
And it's harder to besuccessful.
SPEAKER_02 (10:17):
Two things I'm gonna say because I played a lot with
Rhino.
So first is the good playersaren't coming back, you're
actually getting better in theirmatchmaking you with players of
your skill or better now,because it's all about it's a
skill-based matchmaking, right?
So once you so once you get intolike the rhythm of being better,
(10:37):
now you're being put in a poolof better players.
So now you're having to elevateyour game more rather than be
like in the ish section whereyou had a better chance because
did you just call me a newbitch?
No, noob is yes, he did.
He said you're a noob bitch inplaying.
You're a noob bitch.
(10:58):
This is an Xbox 360.
Thank you, thank you for that.
SPEAKER_01 (11:03):
I really did not hear that correctly, but it
still works.
SPEAKER_02 (11:07):
Yes, so what I'm saying is the skills-based
matchmaking, that's how itworks.
So, what I can say is so if youdo zero build battle royale with
the Simpsons map, after you dofive of them, stop and do the
Blitz Royale, which is a smallermap, and then the storm shrinks
(11:27):
faster, and you land with a gun.
And it's usually a pretty goodgun, and it's a faster game.
So I think there's only 50people, and it's much faster,
but you do that five times andit takes you out of the rotation
of the zero build, and then youcan go back to zero build, and
it almost starts the matchmakingover again.
SPEAKER_01 (11:47):
Oh, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02 (11:49):
Because the more you play the same thing, the more
it's gonna scale you the wayyou're going.
SPEAKER_01 (11:55):
Thanks for the tip.
SPEAKER_02 (11:56):
Yeah, but back to the you were pretty addicted to
Claire.
SPEAKER_01 (12:02):
Uh I beat it twice and on stream the whole
playthrough for both.
And I do want to go back to itand do a trophy cleanup and
maybe even do New Game Plus,because there might be some
stuff in New Game Plus that Ireally appreciate.
But I just haven't had a morningwhere I had time.
(12:25):
I think that the issue is with agame like that, I really want to
make it to where I have twohours at least.
And my morning is just gettingso crunched by work stuff and
the automatic family routinethat and I'm trying to exercise
and take care of my body goals.
(12:46):
By the time I could sit down,boot up Streamlabs, get the
capture card running with thePS5, it's oh my gosh, I'm gonna
have a 55-minute stream.
And I just mentally I talkmyself out of it.
And is a 55-minute stream betterthan is than no stream?
Absolutely it is.
But when I'm sitting in thischair lately, because I don't
(13:08):
have a channel goal right noweither, I just talk myself out
of it.
SPEAKER_03 (13:14):
That's how I was with Elden Ring.
Elden Ring Shadow of the Ur Treeruined my Elden Ring experience.
SPEAKER_02 (13:25):
And it wasn't because of the difficulty, it
was because they scaled up theirdungeons so much that I went
into this cave and I spent 45minutes going through this cave
only to die and start over inthe beginning and have to do
another 45 minutes to get to thesame point I was at.
(13:46):
Actually, it probably took me 35minutes this time, but still it
was a long time.
And then I got down there anddied again.
And if I like you, if I onlyhave a half an hour to play a
game, I'm not gonna spend itdoing that just to die.
It's not that at that point,it's not fun anymore.
And the Fromsoft gamers that arelistening to this telling me to
(14:11):
get good, it's not about that.
It's about respecting time.
And I if you're gonna have adungeon that's gonna be 50
minutes or 45 minutes as a cave,give a grace at the bottom
halfway through to respect that.
SPEAKER_01 (14:24):
Where you put the graces in a game like that
really is important for gamedevs to look at, I think.
Respecting the game player'stime is something you and I,
Marcus, have talked about in thelast eight years over a hundred
times.
Because there have been so manygames where I'm like, it's
really fun, but I don't feellike the people who made this
(14:47):
respect my time.
And these are games that I love,by the way.
This is just a critique, it'snot usually a thing that makes
me say this game is trash.
I'm talking about Final FantasyVII Rebirth, one of my favorite
games of all time.
And my viewers have seen me playit on stream.
I shared a lot of those momentswith my community, and that was
(15:10):
my second playthrough.
My first playthrough, I did notstream because the maps have so
many side quests to get specificthings for the characters, and
my main battle party that Ichose to use was Cloud, Aerith,
and Tifa, and so I would doeverything that would benefit
Cloud, Aerith, and Tifa first,and it's hundreds of little
(15:35):
objectives.
Every new map, you have a newset of 75 quest goals on that
map, but the story would takeyou 45 minutes to go across the
map, get the new boss, get thenew cutscene, continue the
story.
The story of Rebirth is not an80-hour game.
(15:56):
The 100-hour version of thatgame is the player who gets
stuck on the map doing all thethings that Square Enix
shoehorned into it with littlemeasurement markers of we have
40% of this done, you have 85%of this done, and if you want
this summon, you gotta go do thethese six extra boss fights on
(16:17):
this map.
And mini-games galore.
I don't think that's respectingtime.
I think you're padding a short,very enjoyable story game with
the elements that appeal toskibbity ADHD gamer population
that thinks everything has to beillogical and random in order
(16:38):
for the game to be worth theirtime.
SPEAKER_03 (16:40):
Sure.
Yeah.
And that's how we get obsessedwith the game.
SPEAKER_02 (16:47):
So, Doritos, what game has gotten you obsessed
lately or that you can clearlyremember?
SPEAKER_00 (16:55):
There has been one lately.
Pick a game, it's a newer gamethat I've started.
I'll play through it justbecause I want the change of
pace because I've been playingwhat, Sotor for since beta, so
it's almost 14-15 years now.
When when that came out, yeah,definitely was obsessed looking
at builds, watching videos,being a student of uh that type
(17:19):
of game, because this is thatwas my first MMO that I played.
So, how how does this work?
How do I interact with this?
I'd say I've done the same thingfor to the old republic, the
original.
I picked it apart.
I even went into the I and Ifiles and started being able to
change a little bit of the codeto mod the game a little bit.
(17:39):
So definitely went that far intoit.
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (17:42):
I loved giving myself all the cool items at the
very beginning of that game.
That made it so you could justenjoy the story and walk around
feeling a little bit more likeyou're a Sith Lord the whole
time.
Sure.
SPEAKER_00 (17:55):
Um I'm trying to think of other games that I was
that thinking about.
Like if I'm at work or in ameeting, it's popped in my head,
oh, I really need to do this.
There really hasn't been onethat has grabbed my attention
like those two did.
SPEAKER_01 (18:11):
Yeah.
I I I want to just bring upabout the old republic because I
was a first-year doc studentwhen it launched, and I had
still life balance at that time,and I did things that I enjoyed.
And I'm here tonight talking tothe two of you because one of
(18:32):
the main ways I would enjoy theold republic when I didn't have
the chance to play is I'd listento Old Republic radio, I'd
listen to Uttini cast, and I'dlisten to eventually I found the
Escape podcast and oh, what wasBad Feeling podcast?
So I had like my whole commutefrom work and to my clients'
(18:55):
schools and stuff was all justlearning more about the old
republic.
And I didn't have friends whocould raid, and I didn't think I
was good enough to raid at onepoint in time, if you can all
imagine that.
And so they would talk aboutthis mythical thing, the Dread
Council and Kethys, and they'dtalk about it in a way that made
(19:18):
me imagine, oh, they know allthe secrets about these.
And so I'd imagine these fightseven though I've never seen
them.
And it made the game feel like amythos to me.
I really miss having a game thatmade me feel like that.
I don't have that right nowbecause of the prison sentence.
That's what I'm really searchingfor is what's gonna be the next
(19:42):
game that makes me feel goodabout thinking about a game with
my imagination like that.
Right.
You were gonna say something,Marcus, but I really didn't want
to lose that thought.
No, I'm good.
I was rude and I talked rightover you.
SPEAKER_02 (19:58):
No, it's fine.
I started to.
He says, Dorito says he wasn'tobsessed, but I remember a game
like he couldn't put it down,and myself and Nick watched it
happen, and that's horizonHorizon Dawn Zero Zero Dawn.
SPEAKER_00 (20:16):
There's the original Zero Dawn, and I did play
Forbidden West and the DLC No,the first one, the first one you
played Forbidden West HorizonZero Dawn every day.
SPEAKER_02 (20:25):
Duridoza was in Discord playing that game, and I
would pop in because I likebeautiful games.
That game is so beautiful.
You played that every day, yeah,nonstop.
SPEAKER_00 (20:36):
And then I went back and did every did I put it on
every mode and Platinum trophydid.
SPEAKER_02 (20:41):
So there it is.
SPEAKER_00 (20:42):
Wow, that's so cool.
SPEAKER_02 (20:45):
But speaking of like the Platinum Trophy and Doc
saying he's gonna go back toClaire to clean up stuff, he
told me yesterday that he didn'tdo a boss that I was doing, and
it made me feel like yeah, I gotit.
I've done more than Doc in thisgame.
Let's go.
SPEAKER_01 (21:02):
Except I wouldn't go that far.
My Lune does not self-harm.
SPEAKER_02 (21:08):
Mine's my lune's stressed out because I'm
controlling her.
What can I sell?
SPEAKER_01 (21:15):
I do not panic, Perry.
Oh my gosh.
You had a fight yesterday whereI was like, yeah, that's you're
doing so good.
I didn't want to say it out loudbecause I didn't want to jinx it
because I know that can happen.
But hanging out with you whileyou were playing the game a few
times this week has been some ofthe highlights.
It has been the highlight of mysocial life, but some of the
(21:35):
highlights of just my whole weekin general.
SPEAKER_02 (21:37):
Really?
Why?
SPEAKER_01 (21:38):
Yeah.
Because I'm overworking myselfand I have no boundaries with my
schedule.
SPEAKER_02 (21:43):
I've enjoyed, and but you're a good you and
Doritos are a great viewer, likesomebody to hang out with
because you guys respect games.
And what I mean by that is youhave you guys understand that if
I'm in the middle of a fight,you're not going to start having
a full all-out conversation withme because you know I'm terrible
(22:05):
at terrible at multitasking.
SPEAKER_00 (22:07):
Not if we actually want to watch you succeed, if we
want to just give you a hardtime and watch you fail
colossally, we'll start talkingto you and see how how fast we
can get you off the rails.
SPEAKER_02 (22:15):
Or it's if I'm in a cutscene, you guys don't talk
where other people, if they'rein there and they're watching
you and they see a cutscene,they're just like so I have a
fun story that brings back oneof our favorite people on the
show, Jenny, from the first 125.
SPEAKER_01 (22:34):
I invited her to a Final Fantasy community night on
my channel, which had a lot ofAIE players.
And at that point in time, thecomposition of AIE players was
very loud, very chaotic.
Used to raiding with me.
I'm not loud and chaotic, I'mpretty contained.
(22:55):
And at the end, she just liketext messaged me on my phone
after we got out of Discord.
Is that what playing on yourchannel is like all the time
now?
And it was just like that'sawesome.
Yeah, so I get what you'resaying about the chaos, but I
want to talk about our restraintbecause Dorito's watched me play
this game twice.
(23:16):
And and of course I've playedthe game twice, and you're
finishing act two out of three,and I accidentally let slip
earlier in the play session.
Like, Marcus, is this act three?
And you're like, I don't know.
Luckily, you didn't think aboutwhat that means, because and you
clearly didn't connect that tothe puzzle inside your head
(23:38):
because the whole boss fight,you're talking in a very final
way.
This is such a beautiful game,this story was amazing.
What am I gonna play next, guys?
I'm like, you're gonna you'regonna play Claire Obscure
Expedition 33 for 20 more hours.
SPEAKER_02 (23:54):
Oh all right, so I'll back it up.
So let's give the context.
So I'm playing Claire and I'm atthe painteress fight.
So this whole yeah game for thefirst I don't know, I've spent
28 hours in to get to thispoint.
And I'm finally at this bossthat this is the big boss, the
big baddie bad, and I beat her,the painteress, dead, gone,
(24:16):
kaputs, and I'm back in LoomieAir, everybody's celebrating.
I'm like tearing up, I'm sohappy.
Doc is hanging out, and I'mlike, I don't know what I'm
gonna play next.
I gotta pull up Steam and figureout like what's next for me.
And I'm gonna watch it.
And I did, I watched a YouTubevideo.
SPEAKER_01 (24:34):
I let you do it too.
SPEAKER_02 (24:35):
Yeah, like what to play next after Claire Obscure
because I'm in that turn-basedmode and I kind of like it.
And then and then it and thenshit goes down.
Like in a pano snapped, that'swhat happened.
Pano snapped, and I oh my god, Iremember no joke, get ready to
(24:56):
bleep me out.
I was like, what the fuck?
I thought this game was done,like I just lost it, and then
the game opens up, and it Isound like Ariel to a whole new
jasmine to a whole new world,and it's now I'm lost because I
see this quest marker on themap, it is blinking.
(25:18):
Finish the game, but all of asudden I can go anywhere now.
And there's I was doingsomething, I don't know who I
was hanging out with, maybe itwas Doc.
I was just flying around on SKand I flew into this like
serpent.
Flew into a bonus box.
I flew into a bonus boss.
I'm like, oh no.
And the first hit this boss hitme, it was like a million damage
done.
SPEAKER_03 (25:39):
Yeah, you're dead.
SPEAKER_02 (25:40):
Okay.
So the reality is I'm this gameis a lot bigger than I thought,
and now I can't.
So now I gotta figure out how toplay this game.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (25:49):
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's a lot of really goodstory moments left, too.
So it's not just an open worldgame.
It's in fact, I don't even knowif that quest marker is the end
of the game.
SPEAKER_02 (25:59):
Yeah, it's Lumier.
Yeah, but that's that's the I'llsay that's the all that's the
beginning of the end game.
That's once you start thatquest, the game that you're
finishing the game.
SPEAKER_01 (26:11):
Yeah, probably.
The story, anyway.
Yeah, see, that's my big problemis even games like Elden Ring
and Breath of the Wild, I playthem as if they're very mission
focused.
And so that quest marker wasjust too much for me to resist
the first time.
My first playthrough that Ifinished it in 31 hours, about
(26:36):
20 levels lower than you'resupposed to for the final
fights.
So everything was super hard,and I had to parry in order to
survive, which did make me abetter player, but it also felt
like this is not balanced right.
This is a very hard game.
I came back on my secondplaythrough, more in the 45 to
(26:56):
50 hour range, and I flattenedeverything.
So it really depends what youwant out of the game.
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (27:05):
I have 36.9 hours in the game, and I'm just I'm like
30 minutes into act three.
SPEAKER_03 (27:16):
That's fun.
SPEAKER_01 (27:18):
Oh, this is not Expedition 33, but it is two
things that I've done in mygaming that I want to talk
about.
I started Kingdom Hearts.
One.
Yes, I did.
I won eventually Platinum Trophyit, but I have no trophies, so I
have to just play it.
And I made it through TraverseTown, so I'm gonna get my gummy
(27:40):
ship next time I play, and I'mgonna get to leave, I'm gonna
get to go to Alice inWonderland, I think is the first
Disney World, but it doesn'tmatter.
I'll do it as they come.
And I also off-stream have beenplaying the Mortal Kombat
collection, and it's just such acool experience because they
have rewind.
(28:00):
You can push the left stick inand rewind, you can do debug
menus on the arcades, and youcan really choose to have you
can choose to have your movelist displayed on the top left
of the screen, so you know yourspecial moves at all times.
And I was able to beat MortalKombat 1 on arcade and Genesis
(28:23):
and Mortal Kombat 2 on arcade,and yesterday morning I beat
Mortal Kombat 3 with Cyrax.
So my my my winning charactersso far are Scorpion, Liu Kang
for Mortal Kombat 1, Baraka for2, and Cyrax for Mortal Kombat
3.
(28:43):
And it's just really taking meback because that's the origin
of me as a gamer.
That's where the description ofoh, that's Daniel, and he plays
video games is even my veryfirst fight I ever did was at a
pizza hut.
I picked to play as Kano, Ifought Raiden, Raiden destroyed
me.
I got to relive that match on mybig TV in my living room, and I
(29:07):
felt connected to things acrossthe entire timeline of my life.
And I just wanted to share likemoments like that, whatever your
game is, we all have that in us,and it's just really magical
when a game company takes timeto bring us a chance to find
(29:28):
that moment again.
SPEAKER_03 (29:33):
Yeah, I feel like Claire is giving me that.
Elden Ring gave me that, but ina different way.
SPEAKER_02 (29:48):
I enjoy a good story where Elden Ring, I didn't care
about the story as much asmaking a promise to myself that
I wasn't gonna let that.
That game beat me.
SPEAKER_01 (30:04):
That game became a status symbol for the players
who played it.
SPEAKER_03 (30:12):
Yeah.
You're right.
SPEAKER_02 (30:14):
You know why?
Because this guy at the lumberyard where he works at the
counter, he's like a countersalesman.
He was dressed up as, oh my God,you guys are gonna be so mad.
What's the elf from Legolas?
SPEAKER_01 (30:26):
From Lord of the Rings.
SPEAKER_02 (30:28):
Lord of the Rings.
And he was dressed up asLegolas, and he looked legit,
right?
And I was like, bro, you game?
He goes, Of course I do.
I was like, okay, what do youplay?
He goes, Elden Ring, baby.
And I was like, I beat EldenRing.
He goes, What's your build?
And then I was like, Moonvale.
He goes, it's like cheating.
And I was like, bro, that wasn'tcheating.
(30:49):
That's game hard.
And he started laughing.
He's like, oh man, I did thislike super bonk build and blah,
blah, blah.
He's like rambling off.
I was like, whoa.
This and I was like, all right,you play Dark Souls?
Nah, I'm in Securo now, and thatis the hardest game I've ever
played.
I'm like, all right, here we go.
This guy's a gamer.
And I was like, oh, you playClaire?
(31:09):
And he's like, it's on my list.
My girlfriend bought it for me,and I just haven't played it
yet.
He's because I'm when I wasbecause I can't put these
FromSoft games down.
SPEAKER_01 (31:23):
I had a similar situation with this.
We were on a Disney cruise thispast summer.
To Alaska.
And you get Yeah, to Alaska.
And we had you get the samefamily to sit with you at all
the restaurants every singlenight.
So you really get to know them.
He's this big musley dude with abeard.
Like he could bench press six ofme if he wanted to.
(31:43):
Really nice guy, and wasfascinated by what I do.
And I was talking with him aboutwhat he does, but he had to be
secretive because of likecompany NDA and stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (31:52):
So basically he's the Navy SEAL.
SPEAKER_01 (31:56):
It was like finance, actually.
So like big buff guy that doesmoney stuff.
And he's Alberut.
He was he was talking to meabout the video games he's
playing.
And the first dinner, he justlooks at me.
I'm wearing a video game shirt,don't remember which one.
And he just do games andpsychology, right?
(32:18):
I was like, Yeah, he's what doyou think about Claire Obscure
Expedition 33?
I almost died.
And my wife is sitting next tome, and she's just so thrilled
that I got this person to bondwith at all these dinners.
So then we just talked aboutExpedition 33 for the whole 90
minutes.
He's like, When we get a goodinternet signal, I'm gonna buy
(32:40):
it, I'm gonna get on my laptop,I'm gonna tell you what I think
about it.
And and so that was really fun.
SPEAKER_02 (32:45):
Well, what plays?
SPEAKER_01 (32:47):
He talked to me a lot about Halo and Show, yep,
MLB the show.
SPEAKER_02 (32:52):
That's a good game, man.
SPEAKER_01 (32:54):
Yeah, I know.
Yeah, so a lot of sports gamesand a lot of shooter games, but
he was just thinking like hetalked to me also about Zelda
games that he played when he wasmuch younger.
So he had an itch to get a storygame, I think is what he was
talking to me.
And of course, I dropped namedropped my book and tried to be
interesting sounding.
(33:14):
It worked The Gamer's Journey.
I have a question for you,Marcus.
When I said I was playingKingdom Hearts, you said, Oh,
interesting, and we didn't getany follow-up, and I want to
hear from you what that means.
SPEAKER_02 (33:29):
I thought you played a lot of, I thought you've beat
them all.
Like, I thought you've playedthem all.
You love Kingdom Hearts.
SPEAKER_01 (33:37):
Yeah, so I do.
I love Kingdom Hearts.
It's one of the three mostimportant game franchises to
understand what I'm saying inthe gamers' journey, right?
It really comes down tounderstanding Kingdom Hearts,
understanding the Legend ofZelda, and maybe a few others,
but I had to challenge myself todo certain sections of that book
(33:59):
without Kingdom Hearts because Ididn't want people to think I
was writing the psychology ofKingdom Hearts.
Maybe I should write thatsomeday.
I don't know.
I think it would sell prettywell.
But I hired a coach for myYouTube channel through vidIQ,
so I get to meet with him acouple times a week.
We're working on a video for meto create about Kingdom Hearts
(34:21):
and overcoming the darkness andusing games in our mental health
journey.
And so, in order to get readyfor that, I wanted to have some
footage of me playing the gameas B-roll.
So just that morning, I wasreally thinking about the
script.
I was thinking about the outlineand what kinds of things I'm
(34:42):
trying to target.
And a lot of those moments areearly in the game.
So I thought I can get thisfootage now or in one or two
more streams after today.
And so I just decided to do itbecause that was the thing that
felt the most relevant for methat morning.
And when I wake up in themorning, I don't have a plan of
(35:02):
what I'm gonna stream, and maybethis is a problem.
It's whatever I feel like, andKingdom Hearts is what I felt
like that morning.
I can't explain it.
SPEAKER_02 (35:11):
I'm gonna start texting you every day at 8 45
a.m.
that says Mass Effect.
SPEAKER_01 (35:17):
It might work.
Like I've been seeing, listen, Ido have a problem when people
tell me to play a game and I'mgonna like it.
My brain is such a contradictorymess.
It's oh, you watch, I'm notgonna like this.
And and I think that did happenwith Mass Effect, and it's not
your fault, actually.
The best man at my wedding mademe borrow Mass Effect on the PC,
(35:42):
and I never even installed itbecause I was like, I didn't ask
for your game.
I if I'm gonna play this, I'drather just play Knights of the
Old Republic and havelightsabers, sure.
And that's that's not the rightmentality.
I wish I okay, it can be theright mentality if I really love
Star Wars that much.
And in the late 2010 years, Idid love Star Wars that much,
(36:07):
very much.
But I do regret that mindset.
Someday I will play Mass Effect.
I might wake up on Monday and belike, it's a Mass Effect day.
None of us know.
SPEAKER_00 (36:19):
None of us do know.
SPEAKER_01 (36:21):
I just have to meet someone in that game that I want
to romance, and then it's on.
I have to turn on my safe searchand do some Googling to figure
out if this is a thing, becauseI don't want to actually
(36:41):
accidentally stumble into theweird side of the Mass Effect
fandom.
SPEAKER_02 (36:46):
I don't think there is one.
SPEAKER_01 (36:49):
I think there definitely is a weird side of
the Mass Effect fandom.
SPEAKER_00 (36:53):
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (36:56):
Which means we're on the weird side.
SPEAKER_00 (36:57):
It's okay then.
SPEAKER_01 (36:58):
There's some thirsty gamers out there, Marcus.
SPEAKER_02 (37:01):
Yeah, maybe.
SPEAKER_01 (37:03):
I don't know.
I don't look at it like that,but how many hours does it take
to finish Mass Effect 1?
A lot.
I need a short game with a storythat packs a punch.
SPEAKER_03 (37:17):
Oh, let's see.
SPEAKER_01 (37:21):
I've never streamed that.
I did Platinum Trophy italready.
It is one of my favorite gamesof all time.
SPEAKER_02 (37:26):
Heavy Rain's a good one.
Mass Effect 1, 2, or 3 is a goodone.
Did I mention Mass Effect?
SPEAKER_01 (37:33):
You did.
Alright, great.
I could just I could also pickup Horizon Zero Dawn, which I
streamed one time last year andnever came back because my aim
is so bad.
But I've been playing Fortnite,so maybe my aim is a little
better.
SPEAKER_02 (37:49):
Yeah, see, it's hard because a lot of these games are
it's gonna take some hours.
Yeah.
And being this is the biggestproblem with streaming, is
you're picking a game that packsa punch in a short period of
time, so you can your streamaudience.
(38:09):
Ignore it.
Yes, your exactly your streamaudience can enjoy the game, and
that's what sucks.
And I don't mean that in awicked negative way, I'm just
saying that you have to you haveto overcome that.
And the way you can do that isif I'm gonna use Expedition 33
as an example.
It's a long game, you don't wantto play it.
(38:31):
There's nothing wrong with youscreen recording yourself
playing it for three hours andthen just posting that video on
your YouTube channel, or youknow what I'm saying, or get
clips from it.
You don't need to play the wholething continuously through your
stream, I guess is what I'msaying.
You can play these games offstream.
(38:52):
A game, too, that would bereally interesting for me to see
you play is cyberpunk.
SPEAKER_01 (38:59):
I do have cyberpunk, and I've thought about that a
lot.
No, I've never played it.
SPEAKER_02 (39:04):
So that has I've only played three or four hours
of it, and that has some crazydecision-making story elements.
The graphics are beautiful,which that's important to me,
and the story is incredible, andyou're in a super futuristic
(39:25):
world.
Have you played CyberpunkDoritos?
SPEAKER_01 (39:30):
No, I haven't.
Okay.
I'm not doing sure it's greatbecause I am a I'm a fan of The
Witcher.
Same company.
SPEAKER_02 (39:39):
The other game you could play is like a Final
Fantasy X.
SPEAKER_01 (39:43):
I've only played Final Fantasy X one time, and
that's before I was even amaster's level counselor.
Like I was a baby adult.
SPEAKER_02 (39:53):
But that's a long game.
That's an 80-hour game.
SPEAKER_01 (39:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (39:58):
It's hard because all of these games are most
games are 30 hours plus.
What's the Laura Croft game,Doritos, that you played that I
watched you play?
SPEAKER_00 (40:10):
I'll play all three of the new series, Two Raider
Rise and Shadow.
SPEAKER_02 (40:14):
Yes.
Those are good games too.
SPEAKER_01 (40:16):
You would like those.
I'm about 70% through Shadow onmy Steam Deck.
That's like my air airplaneflight travel game.
SPEAKER_02 (40:24):
Okay, then that's out.
You could play Sekiro.
SPEAKER_01 (40:28):
I could.
SPEAKER_02 (40:29):
You know what I mean?
That's not a that's not astory-driven game necessarily,
but it's a combat, it's like adark, it's a Frumsov game, but
it's really hard.
And that's a game that you canplay for an hour and be okay on
stream because people are justgonna enjoy watching you die.
SPEAKER_01 (40:49):
I should do a special post in my classes for
students that are not passingthe class and be like, hey, I'm
going live.
Come watch me die.
Yeah, it's hard.
SPEAKER_02 (41:03):
A lot of these games are long.
I still think you should playCyberpunk because it's a
shooter, but it's also a wickedRPG.
I tell you to play the what doyou call it?
I got The Witcher, but that's ahundred-hour game.
SPEAKER_01 (41:27):
If I did play The Witcher, I wrote a chapter in
psychology of The Witcher, thenit creates another set of really
interesting content for whatI've become on both sides of my
identity, the game player andthe academic who studies and
analyzes games.
(41:48):
Right.
And I've thought about that alot.
Like, eventually, I think I wantto get my own Switch 2 and the
new Pokemon.
I don't want to play the newPokemon on my Switch 1.
I just don't.
There I just can't imagine itworks well.
SPEAKER_02 (42:03):
The game is terrible.
Don't even buy it.
Really?
The new Pokemon game isterrible.
All the Pokemon people that Iknow, they say it's the worst
game ever.
SPEAKER_01 (42:13):
Oh no.
My son liked it.
Anyway, I what I'm saying isthere's all these there's all
these games now that have donereally cool work to help analyze
it for people.
And I think that's what I'mtrying to do is build up the
(42:36):
content about me talking aboutgames, and that's where the
Kingdom Hearts stream came from.
I also think for better orworse, I think I have to settle
on one game and just play ituntil it's done.
If as a streamer, I think thisidea that I had in my head that
(42:59):
I can do Sunday, Monday,Thursday, and then bonuses on
Tuesday and Wednesday when I'mwell organized and ahead on
work.
And every day I just pick whatI'm gonna play.
I think that has led to thementality of I'm gonna skip a
stream.
If it's if I just say KingdomHearts is the game until Zora
(43:21):
defeats Ansom, spoiler alert, Ithink that would work better,
honestly.
I really do.
SPEAKER_02 (43:27):
I agree, but don't be afraid to play it off stream,
is what I'm saying.
If you have an hour or two hoursnow at night and you can play,
don't feel like you have to onlyplay that game in front of
people.
There's no reason why you can'tdo two chapters and then the
next stream you're at Hercules.
SPEAKER_01 (43:49):
Doritos, I want to ask you this because you are a
very diligent viewer for mychannel.
You're usually there.
If I were on Alice inWonderland, the first Disney
World you run into on my Sundaystream, and we beat that, it's
great.
We're on our way to Tarzan.
And then on Thursday, it's guys,I've played about 11 hours, and
(44:14):
now we're at Halloween town andwe're two Disney Worlds away
from the end.
How would you feel if I justblipped us forward in the story
40% of the game?
SPEAKER_00 (44:30):
It would we would feel left out because you like
to have us come along with thejourney.
Interacting with the streamwhile you're doing the game, so
you can have the conversations,and you like sharing tidbits for
each world, and how and how theencounter, even like the major
(44:55):
encounters, how they go and someof the other how that relates to
the gamers' journey and themodern monolith, how all that
ties together with those type ofgames.
So we would feel somewhat leftout because you're leaving out a
good chunk of how so you've metthe mentor, you've done all
(45:17):
that, and all of a sudden you'rejumping to okay, I'm Supreme
Ordeal Road of Trials.
Yeah, right.
So you're missing a big chunk inthere of how this now relates to
the gamers' journey, and we'replaying catch-up, going, okay.
You know, if you're justwatching it for the gameplay and
the entertainment, hey, thatokay, I don't think it's really
gonna matter where you jump to.
(45:38):
But as you like to be bringpeople along the journey of the
game, you will probably feelsomewhat dissatisfied, and a
large chunk of the viewers wouldbe going, okay, we missed a
whole lot because you played itoffline.
SPEAKER_01 (45:53):
Okay, I think if I would have answered it myself, a
lot of those same beats wouldhave been in there, but it's
really helpful to hear fromsomeone who watches what I do.
I think my second playthrough ofClaire Obscure was much better
than my first as well.
Why?
(46:13):
Because I had the broad beats ofthe story in my head already,
and so I had more of an analysisprepared of this is this moment.
Pay attention to this character.
But when you're trying to payattention to chat and watch a
brand new cutscene with lots ofstuff happening, right, you miss
(46:36):
stuff, and you're just like,what just happened?
So the kinds of things I do as astreamer, I'm constantly
tinkering with it, and I thinkdifferent games are pushing me
to do different things.
And if it's a story I've neverseen before, I almost wish that
(46:58):
my stream of it would be mysecond time doing it.
But that's tough too, becausenow I have if I want to do that
with Mass Effect or something, Ineed to beat Mass Effect off
stream and then come back andplay it again on stream, which
is never gonna happen because Igotta just play it one time.
So I'm Marcus, I see you shakingyour head, but I'm that's what
(47:18):
it sounds like, me literallytrying to figure out how do I
get the kind of content I'mgonna be excited by from a
playthrough of Mass Effect.
And because I don't know whatthe game really is, other than
its reputation, the things Ineed to know about are just in
the shadows.
I can't imagine them yet.
SPEAKER_02 (47:40):
I was smiling because I have two words.
Mass Effect sentence.
Oh.
Ah you're making print theshirt.
Right.
You're making all of your gamingdecisions based off of
streaming, not based off of thegame you want to play and how
you want to play it.
(48:00):
That's where I'm actually withDoritos because when you play a
game and you're going in step bystep, your content actually gets
better throughout the contentbecause you have a really good
mind.
With do you guys remember backin act one fighting the demi dog
(48:21):
and how that dog jumps at youand claws this way and how it
blinds you?
But then the next boss, sixhours later, you remember that
and you talk about that and youconnect dots.
And obviously, everything I justsaid is just a placeholder.
SPEAKER_01 (48:38):
Yeah, but you I love that you said demi dog though,
because that just sounds likesuch a clever thing that a game
dev would call it.
SPEAKER_02 (48:46):
I'm just stranger, I'm in stranger things mode
right now.
SPEAKER_01 (48:49):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (48:50):
But the point I'm trying to make, so Doritos is a
hundred percent with what heused as your example of your
viewers missing out.
But the problem is now you'resacrificing a game that you want
to play, and I'm not talkingabout Mass Effect, I'm just
talking about any game.
You're sacrificing that gamebecause it's not for your
(49:12):
viewers' pleasure.
You know what I mean?
So that's where the prisonsentence always comes in.
So that let me challenge you tothis.
Why can't you play KingdomHearts on stream and play Mass
Effect when you're notstreaming?
Play off stream.
SPEAKER_01 (49:29):
I could, once I have finished all of the Mortal
Kombat.
SPEAKER_02 (49:34):
I'm using Mass Effect as a placeholder, right?
Yeah.
Because that's a game orcyberpunk or whatever.
You don't have to play everygame on stream.
You don't.
You can talk about you can givepeople your Mass Effect content
weekly on the gaming persona.
SPEAKER_01 (49:51):
That's very true.
I was just going to say thatabout a minute ago, and then we
got to the same point.
SPEAKER_02 (49:58):
That's a really good you don't need to stream every
game, and that's where I was allthose was probably three years
ago, now or four years ago.
But that's where I was, doc.
And I was a nobody streamer.
Don't I'm not saying I was thistop dog.
That's not what I'm trying tosay.
But I was making my decisionsbased off of stream instead of
(50:22):
what I actually wanted.
But Doritos is right.
If you play a game, you shouldplay it all the way through, and
just play two games and use thegaming persona and your quests
to talk about that content ofthe second game.
Make people drive people to thepodcast and your solo quest.
SPEAKER_01 (50:41):
This is the pep talk I needed.
SPEAKER_02 (50:43):
I give them to you.
My friends are my power.
With your powers combined, he isDr.
Gameology.
SPEAKER_01 (50:53):
That's really nice.
Thanks for the support.
Thanks for the pep talk.
SPEAKER_02 (50:58):
Can I ask you one question before we wrap up?
Because I know we're coming tothis end.
What's the name of your book?
SPEAKER_01 (51:06):
The Gamer's Journey.
SPEAKER_02 (51:08):
Continue the journey.
SPEAKER_01 (51:10):
Oh, that's a spoiler.
Okay, guys, I got a question for you.
Okay, what do you got?
How do cows count?
SPEAKER_00 (00:10):
I don't know.
How do cows count?
A calculator.
A calculator.
Wow.
We haven't had one of those yet.
SPEAKER_02 (00:22):
But that's okay.
That's okay.
It was fantastic.
SPEAKER_01 (00:27):
My mind is blown.
I don't even know where to gofrom that.
SPEAKER_02 (00:30):
I asked Rhino what how cows count, and he goes,
Cow.
SPEAKER_03 (00:36):
But he didn't get the collater part.
That's okay.
SPEAKER_01 (00:41):
His enthusiasm is impressive though.
Yeah, where do you think he getsit from?
His mother.
SPEAKER_02 (00:48):
No, that would be the negativity.
SPEAKER_01 (00:54):
You're married to the negativitron from Little Big
Planet?
SPEAKER_02 (00:57):
Yes.
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (00:59):
Are you guys stranger things fans?
Yeah.
From Netflix.
You know, the show about theupside down.
And Eleven and Waffles.
And 1980s.
D D.
SPEAKER_02 (01:24):
Wow, that was a compelling conversation.
SPEAKER_01 (01:28):
I am a huge fan of Stranger Things.
Where are you going with this?
SPEAKER_02 (01:31):
So they released the season five trailer, and I think
I've watched it nine times andwatched like four videos.
Because I'm hoping they don'tscrew up the final season like
every show f screws up the finalseason.
Can I share a hypothesis?
SPEAKER_00 (01:50):
Of course you can.
SPEAKER_01 (01:52):
I think that final seasons are actually fine.
It's that us as human beingshave a problem letting go and
seeing stories as final.
SPEAKER_02 (02:04):
I can see your point, and I'm going to raise
you 20 and say that I thinkfinal seasons are good, but
people have their own mind madeup on how their show is going to
end or their game is going toend or something like that.
So you can't ever live up toyour own hype.
(02:25):
Like me with the Mass Effect 3,we talked about this before.
Like I loved one, two, I lovedthree, but the way it ended, I
was just like, that wasn't how Iwould have done it.
And move on.
Just if they ever did Knights ofthe Old Republic remake, they
would have to end it the exactsame way, or it would be trash
to me.
Because I know how that ends.
SPEAKER_01 (02:48):
Why would they change that?
Because they are giving peoplechoices.
SPEAKER_03 (02:55):
We have bright side, dark side.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (03:03):
Oh, he coughed.
But anyway, so I'm a littleobsessed right now with the
whole Strangers Things StrangerThings hype.
And I didn't even know thattrailer came out.
Dude, you gotta watch it.
It's wild.
Okay.
Like you definitely have towatch it.
The other thing is tomorrownight I'm going to Friday Night
(03:25):
SmackDown in Albany, New York.
SPEAKER_01 (03:27):
Oh, that's cool.
Ooh.
unknown (03:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:31):
Have they announced anything that's going to be
there?
SPEAKER_02 (03:33):
So Jay Uso versus the Miz in the last time is now
tournament.
And then LA Night, yeah, versuswe don't know because Nick
Aldous wouldn't say who they'rewrestling against.
So if I had a guess, it's goingto be a secret, like a top
secret guest.
I'm going with Joe Hendrybecause they said I'm not going
(03:56):
to say his name.
And that's like his gimmick.
You say his name, he appears.
So I think I love Joe Hendry.
Yeah.
Chris.
Yeah.
He's going to appear.
So then B Fab versus JadeCargill.
Who killers?
Who cares?
And Cody Rhodes will be there,which I'm believe it or not, out
of all the wrestlers, I'm themost excited for Cody Rhodes
(04:16):
because I've never gotten to seeCody Rhodes live.
So and this was like spur of themoment, like last minute, last
Friday.
I was drinking a beer.
We were watching Friday NightSmackDown, and I looked because
Albany's only an hour and 20minutes from me.
And I looked and I got ticketsfor 50 bucks a piece in the
(04:36):
lower bowl.
That's crazy.
It's because they're struggling.
Raw is like the A, anddefinitely SmackDown's really
like a D.
So like they're having troubleselling tickets right now.
And they had a me plus wait,three plus me, so four ticket
(04:59):
price, and it was like$56 aticket.
And I'm lower bowl like seventhrow.
So it's perfect.
SPEAKER_01 (05:05):
That's really cool.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (05:06):
And my kids love it and they're excited.
I'm going to throw them in thedad van and I'm buying a pizza,
throwing it on the floor of thedad van.
They're getting plates or drinksand we're cruising.
We're eating pizza while wedrive.
Be safe.
The kids are going to be eatingpizza.
Me, I'll just eat it whenever.
Okay.
Be on the way back.
(05:27):
I have a topic for tonight thatI'd like to talk to.
Okay.
Talk about.
Wait, talk to?
Talk.
I'm talking to you guys.
SPEAKER_01 (05:34):
You can talk to the topic.
SPEAKER_02 (05:35):
Yeah, I want to talk to the topic and I want to talk
about the topic.
SPEAKER_01 (05:38):
Which is what is it?
SPEAKER_02 (05:40):
Oh, I'm sorry.
I was rambling.
SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
No way.
SPEAKER_02 (05:45):
All right.
I want to talk about how gamessuck us in.
Because Doc did not get suckedinto Mass Effect, but he got
sucked into writing a book.
If you guys didn't know, it'scalled The Gamer's Journey and
it's won an award.
But anyway, I'm I get suckedinto certain games.
(06:05):
It doesn't happen super often,but like I got sucked into Swo
Tor, and then I got sucked intoElden Ring.
And now I'm 100% obsessed withClaire Obscure Expedition 33.
SPEAKER_01 (06:22):
Yeah, you really are.
I couldn't drag you out of thegame in order to do the podcast
tonight.
It was funny.
SPEAKER_02 (06:28):
No, I didn't know what time.
So sometimes, Doc, you're like8:45 Eastern.
Sometimes you're 9.15 Eastern,because it just depends on how
much of your coffee is prepared.
And if you get sucked intomaking your coffee and like you
end up chatting with your wifeand like life.
And then it could be 20 minutesbefore you come back, or Doritos
(06:49):
has to take the dog for a walkor whatever.
And most of the time it's methat's late, but I'm just using
you guys as the examples ofbeing late.
And so I was like, Oh, I'll justplay Claire.
And I can't figure out why mycharacter is taking damage on
her first move every turn.
She's taking like a thousand KDPS to herself every single
(07:13):
first turn.
SPEAKER_01 (07:13):
Or I'm unequip everything, unequip everything,
and then just start over.
Re rebuild her.
Yeah, just yeah, it's a goodidea.
I think you'll figure it out.
SPEAKER_02 (07:23):
I'll be doing that.
SPEAKER_01 (07:24):
It's gotta be a weird combination of having this
skill with that skill creates aweird effect because they
conflict with each other.
SPEAKER_02 (07:31):
Sure.
And I've made a decision that assoon as the Steam fall sale
comes out, I'm buying DoritosClaire, just so I can tell you
he's gonna have no choice.
SPEAKER_01 (07:41):
And then Claire was on sale this week.
SPEAKER_02 (07:44):
Yeah.
On Xbox, right?
SPEAKER_01 (07:45):
On Steam.
I got an email about it.
SPEAKER_02 (07:48):
It's not on my list.
SPEAKER_01 (07:49):
It's like 48, 48 dollars or something instead of
60 or something like that.
SPEAKER_02 (07:54):
Autumn sale is coming in a week or so.
So but anyway, so back to myaddiction.
What I'm I want to know, and Iwant to break this down.
Have you guys ever gotten tothat?
Like it's what you can thinkabout all day.
Like, I'm watching build videosjust to like further my
(08:16):
knowledge of the game, eventhough I don't actually do
anything with the build videos,but it's just to keep it in my
head.
Like I think I've watched whatto do in act three videos, like
three or four of them, because Ifeel lost.
But you guys ever get like that?
Do you ever get infatuated withthe game?
SPEAKER_03 (08:34):
Yeah.
I used to a lot.
Used to, so what happened?
That sounds past tense.
SPEAKER_01 (08:44):
Well, I can tell you what I I still could.
I just haven't found the gamethat's going to do it.
And if you are paying attentionto my Twitch channel, it's very
obvious that I don't know what Iwant to play right now.
SPEAKER_02 (08:57):
Bing bing! You know what it is?
You guys want to know?
It's because he's in his prisonsentence right now, and because
he's making a choice of the gamehe placed for his audience
rather than for himself.
That's why.
Prison sentence.
I've been there, done that.
SPEAKER_01 (09:16):
You gotta make bumper stickers or something,
Marcus.
SPEAKER_02 (09:19):
Streaming is a prince's prison sentence.
SPEAKER_01 (09:21):
Dirty, dirty Marcus Mysterio.
SPEAKER_02 (09:24):
No, but I'm serious.
Think about it.
He was playing Fortnite, he wasgetting great numbers.
Yeah, it's a Fortnite's a fungame, and I couldn't play it
every day all day.
I play it with my son.
It gets monotonous.
You know, how many battleroyales can you do in a row?
Five, ten, if you do prettygood, twenty, you know what I
mean?
Before you get tired of it.
SPEAKER_01 (09:44):
On that topic, the Simpsons map is not my jam.
I really liked the map that Istarted playing with a lot.
It was huge, and the matches hadabout 100 people.
The Simpsons map is small,there's about 75 people every
match, and I think a lot ofreally good players returned, or
(10:07):
I got worse.
I don't like the gun selectionbecause some of my favorite guns
are not in the game right now.
And it's harder to besuccessful.
SPEAKER_02 (10:17):
Two things I'm gonna say because I played a lot with
Rhino.
So first is the good playersaren't coming back, you're
actually getting better in theirmatchmaking you with players of
your skill or better now,because it's all about it's a
skill-based matchmaking, right?
So once you so once you get intolike the rhythm of being better,
(10:37):
now you're being put in a poolof better players.
So now you're having to elevateyour game more rather than be
like in the ish section whereyou had a better chance because
did you just call me a newbitch?
No, noob is yes, he did.
He said you're a noob bitch inplaying.
You're a noob bitch.
(10:58):
This is an Xbox 360.
Thank you, thank you for that.
SPEAKER_01 (11:03):
I really did not hear that correctly, but it
still works.
SPEAKER_02 (11:07):
Yes, so what I'm saying is the skills-based
matchmaking, that's how itworks.
So, what I can say is so if youdo zero build battle royale with
the Simpsons map, after you dofive of them, stop and do the
Blitz Royale, which is a smallermap, and then the storm shrinks
(11:27):
faster, and you land with a gun.
And it's usually a pretty goodgun, and it's a faster game.
So I think there's only 50people, and it's much faster,
but you do that five times andit takes you out of the rotation
of the zero build, and then youcan go back to zero build, and
it almost starts the matchmakingover again.
SPEAKER_01 (11:47):
Oh, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02 (11:49):
Because the more you play the same thing, the more
it's gonna scale you the wayyou're going.
SPEAKER_01 (11:55):
Thanks for the tip.
SPEAKER_02 (11:56):
Yeah, but back to the you were pretty addicted to
Claire.
SPEAKER_01 (12:02):
Uh I beat it twice and on stream the whole
playthrough for both.
And I do want to go back to itand do a trophy cleanup and
maybe even do New Game Plus,because there might be some
stuff in New Game Plus that Ireally appreciate.
But I just haven't had a morningwhere I had time.
(12:25):
I think that the issue is with agame like that, I really want to
make it to where I have twohours at least.
And my morning is just gettingso crunched by work stuff and
the automatic family routinethat and I'm trying to exercise
and take care of my body goals.
(12:46):
By the time I could sit down,boot up Streamlabs, get the
capture card running with thePS5, it's oh my gosh, I'm gonna
have a 55-minute stream.
And I just mentally I talkmyself out of it.
And is a 55-minute stream betterthan is than no stream?
Absolutely it is.
But when I'm sitting in thischair lately, because I don't
(13:08):
have a channel goal right noweither, I just talk myself out
of it.
SPEAKER_03 (13:14):
That's how I was with Elden Ring.
Elden Ring Shadow of the Ur Treeruined my Elden Ring experience.
SPEAKER_02 (13:25):
And it wasn't because of the difficulty, it
was because they scaled up theirdungeons so much that I went
into this cave and I spent 45minutes going through this cave
only to die and start over inthe beginning and have to do
another 45 minutes to get to thesame point I was at.
(13:46):
Actually, it probably took me 35minutes this time, but still it
was a long time.
And then I got down there anddied again.
And if I like you, if I onlyhave a half an hour to play a
game, I'm not gonna spend itdoing that just to die.
It's not that at that point,it's not fun anymore.
And the Fromsoft gamers that arelistening to this telling me to
(14:11):
get good, it's not about that.
It's about respecting time.
And I if you're gonna have adungeon that's gonna be 50
minutes or 45 minutes as a cave,give a grace at the bottom
halfway through to respect that.
SPEAKER_01 (14:24):
Where you put the graces in a game like that
really is important for gamedevs to look at, I think.
Respecting the game player'stime is something you and I,
Marcus, have talked about in thelast eight years over a hundred
times.
Because there have been so manygames where I'm like, it's
really fun, but I don't feellike the people who made this
(14:47):
respect my time.
And these are games that I love,by the way.
This is just a critique, it'snot usually a thing that makes
me say this game is trash.
I'm talking about Final FantasyVII Rebirth, one of my favorite
games of all time.
And my viewers have seen me playit on stream.
I shared a lot of those momentswith my community, and that was
(15:10):
my second playthrough.
My first playthrough, I did notstream because the maps have so
many side quests to get specificthings for the characters, and
my main battle party that Ichose to use was Cloud, Aerith,
and Tifa, and so I would doeverything that would benefit
Cloud, Aerith, and Tifa first,and it's hundreds of little
(15:35):
objectives.
Every new map, you have a newset of 75 quest goals on that
map, but the story would takeyou 45 minutes to go across the
map, get the new boss, get thenew cutscene, continue the
story.
The story of Rebirth is not an80-hour game.
(15:56):
The 100-hour version of thatgame is the player who gets
stuck on the map doing all thethings that Square Enix
shoehorned into it with littlemeasurement markers of we have
40% of this done, you have 85%of this done, and if you want
this summon, you gotta go do thethese six extra boss fights on
(16:17):
this map.
And mini-games galore.
I don't think that's respectingtime.
I think you're padding a short,very enjoyable story game with
the elements that appeal toskibbity ADHD gamer population
that thinks everything has to beillogical and random in order
(16:38):
for the game to be worth theirtime.
SPEAKER_03 (16:40):
Sure.
Yeah.
And that's how we get obsessedwith the game.
SPEAKER_02 (16:47):
So, Doritos, what game has gotten you obsessed
lately or that you can clearlyremember?
SPEAKER_00 (16:55):
There has been one lately.
Pick a game, it's a newer gamethat I've started.
I'll play through it justbecause I want the change of
pace because I've been playingwhat, Sotor for since beta, so
it's almost 14-15 years now.
When when that came out, yeah,definitely was obsessed looking
at builds, watching videos,being a student of uh that type
(17:19):
of game, because this is thatwas my first MMO that I played.
So, how how does this work?
How do I interact with this?
I'd say I've done the same thingfor to the old republic, the
original.
I picked it apart.
I even went into the I and Ifiles and started being able to
change a little bit of the codeto mod the game a little bit.
(17:39):
So definitely went that far intoit.
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (17:42):
I loved giving myself all the cool items at the
very beginning of that game.
That made it so you could justenjoy the story and walk around
feeling a little bit more likeyou're a Sith Lord the whole
time.
Sure.
SPEAKER_00 (17:55):
Um I'm trying to think of other games that I was
that thinking about.
Like if I'm at work or in ameeting, it's popped in my head,
oh, I really need to do this.
There really hasn't been onethat has grabbed my attention
like those two did.
SPEAKER_01 (18:11):
Yeah.
I I I want to just bring upabout the old republic because I
was a first-year doc studentwhen it launched, and I had
still life balance at that time,and I did things that I enjoyed.
And I'm here tonight talking tothe two of you because one of
(18:32):
the main ways I would enjoy theold republic when I didn't have
the chance to play is I'd listento Old Republic radio, I'd
listen to Uttini cast, and I'dlisten to eventually I found the
Escape podcast and oh, what wasBad Feeling podcast?
So I had like my whole commutefrom work and to my clients'
(18:55):
schools and stuff was all justlearning more about the old
republic.
And I didn't have friends whocould raid, and I didn't think I
was good enough to raid at onepoint in time, if you can all
imagine that.
And so they would talk aboutthis mythical thing, the Dread
Council and Kethys, and they'dtalk about it in a way that made
(19:18):
me imagine, oh, they know allthe secrets about these.
And so I'd imagine these fightseven though I've never seen
them.
And it made the game feel like amythos to me.
I really miss having a game thatmade me feel like that.
I don't have that right nowbecause of the prison sentence.
That's what I'm really searchingfor is what's gonna be the next
(19:42):
game that makes me feel goodabout thinking about a game with
my imagination like that.
Right.
You were gonna say something,Marcus, but I really didn't want
to lose that thought.
No, I'm good.
I was rude and I talked rightover you.
SPEAKER_02 (19:58):
No, it's fine.
I started to.
He says, Dorito says he wasn'tobsessed, but I remember a game
like he couldn't put it down,and myself and Nick watched it
happen, and that's horizonHorizon Dawn Zero Zero Dawn.
SPEAKER_00 (20:16):
There's the original Zero Dawn, and I did play
Forbidden West and the DLC No,the first one, the first one you
played Forbidden West HorizonZero Dawn every day.
SPEAKER_02 (20:25):
Duridoza was in Discord playing that game, and I
would pop in because I likebeautiful games.
That game is so beautiful.
You played that every day, yeah,nonstop.
SPEAKER_00 (20:36):
And then I went back and did every did I put it on
every mode and Platinum trophydid.
SPEAKER_02 (20:41):
So there it is.
SPEAKER_00 (20:42):
Wow, that's so cool.
SPEAKER_02 (20:45):
But speaking of like the Platinum Trophy and Doc
saying he's gonna go back toClaire to clean up stuff, he
told me yesterday that he didn'tdo a boss that I was doing, and
it made me feel like yeah, I gotit.
I've done more than Doc in thisgame.
Let's go.
SPEAKER_01 (21:02):
Except I wouldn't go that far.
My Lune does not self-harm.
SPEAKER_02 (21:08):
Mine's my lune's stressed out because I'm
controlling her.
What can I sell?
SPEAKER_01 (21:15):
I do not panic, Perry.
Oh my gosh.
You had a fight yesterday whereI was like, yeah, that's you're
doing so good.
I didn't want to say it out loudbecause I didn't want to jinx it
because I know that can happen.
But hanging out with you whileyou were playing the game a few
times this week has been some ofthe highlights.
It has been the highlight of mysocial life, but some of the
(21:35):
highlights of just my whole weekin general.
SPEAKER_02 (21:37):
Really?
Why?
SPEAKER_01 (21:38):
Yeah.
Because I'm overworking myselfand I have no boundaries with my
schedule.
SPEAKER_02 (21:43):
I've enjoyed, and but you're a good you and
Doritos are a great viewer, likesomebody to hang out with
because you guys respect games.
And what I mean by that is youhave you guys understand that if
I'm in the middle of a fight,you're not going to start having
a full all-out conversation withme because you know I'm terrible
(22:05):
at terrible at multitasking.
SPEAKER_00 (22:07):
Not if we actually want to watch you succeed, if we
want to just give you a hardtime and watch you fail
colossally, we'll start talkingto you and see how how fast we
can get you off the rails.
SPEAKER_02 (22:15):
Or it's if I'm in a cutscene, you guys don't talk
where other people, if they'rein there and they're watching
you and they see a cutscene,they're just like so I have a
fun story that brings back oneof our favorite people on the
show, Jenny, from the first 125.
SPEAKER_01 (22:34):
I invited her to a Final Fantasy community night on
my channel, which had a lot ofAIE players.
And at that point in time, thecomposition of AIE players was
very loud, very chaotic.
Used to raiding with me.
I'm not loud and chaotic, I'mpretty contained.
(22:55):
And at the end, she just liketext messaged me on my phone
after we got out of Discord.
Is that what playing on yourchannel is like all the time
now?
And it was just like that'sawesome.
Yeah, so I get what you'resaying about the chaos, but I
want to talk about our restraintbecause Dorito's watched me play
this game twice.
(23:16):
And and of course I've playedthe game twice, and you're
finishing act two out of three,and I accidentally let slip
earlier in the play session.
Like, Marcus, is this act three?
And you're like, I don't know.
Luckily, you didn't think aboutwhat that means, because and you
clearly didn't connect that tothe puzzle inside your head
(23:38):
because the whole boss fight,you're talking in a very final
way.
This is such a beautiful game,this story was amazing.
What am I gonna play next, guys?
I'm like, you're gonna you'regonna play Claire Obscure
Expedition 33 for 20 more hours.
SPEAKER_02 (23:54):
Oh all right, so I'll back it up.
So let's give the context.
So I'm playing Claire and I'm atthe painteress fight.
So this whole yeah game for thefirst I don't know, I've spent
28 hours in to get to thispoint.
And I'm finally at this bossthat this is the big boss, the
big baddie bad, and I beat her,the painteress, dead, gone,
(24:16):
kaputs, and I'm back in LoomieAir, everybody's celebrating.
I'm like tearing up, I'm sohappy.
Doc is hanging out, and I'mlike, I don't know what I'm
gonna play next.
I gotta pull up Steam and figureout like what's next for me.
And I'm gonna watch it.
And I did, I watched a YouTubevideo.
SPEAKER_01 (24:34):
I let you do it too.
SPEAKER_02 (24:35):
Yeah, like what to play next after Claire Obscure
because I'm in that turn-basedmode and I kind of like it.
And then and then it and thenshit goes down.
Like in a pano snapped, that'swhat happened.
Pano snapped, and I oh my god, Iremember no joke, get ready to
(24:56):
bleep me out.
I was like, what the fuck?
I thought this game was done,like I just lost it, and then
the game opens up, and it Isound like Ariel to a whole new
jasmine to a whole new world,and it's now I'm lost because I
see this quest marker on themap, it is blinking.
(25:18):
Finish the game, but all of asudden I can go anywhere now.
And there's I was doingsomething, I don't know who I
was hanging out with, maybe itwas Doc.
I was just flying around on SKand I flew into this like
serpent.
Flew into a bonus box.
I flew into a bonus boss.
I'm like, oh no.
And the first hit this boss hitme, it was like a million damage
done.
SPEAKER_03 (25:39):
Yeah, you're dead.
SPEAKER_02 (25:40):
Okay.
So the reality is I'm this gameis a lot bigger than I thought,
and now I can't.
So now I gotta figure out how toplay this game.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (25:49):
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's a lot of really goodstory moments left, too.
So it's not just an open worldgame.
It's in fact, I don't even knowif that quest marker is the end
of the game.
SPEAKER_02 (25:59):
Yeah, it's Lumier.
Yeah, but that's that's the I'llsay that's the all that's the
beginning of the end game.
That's once you start thatquest, the game that you're
finishing the game.
SPEAKER_01 (26:11):
Yeah, probably.
The story, anyway.
Yeah, see, that's my big problemis even games like Elden Ring
and Breath of the Wild, I playthem as if they're very mission
focused.
And so that quest marker wasjust too much for me to resist
the first time.
My first playthrough that Ifinished it in 31 hours, about
(26:36):
20 levels lower than you'resupposed to for the final
fights.
So everything was super hard,and I had to parry in order to
survive, which did make me abetter player, but it also felt
like this is not balanced right.
This is a very hard game.
I came back on my secondplaythrough, more in the 45 to
(26:56):
50 hour range, and I flattenedeverything.
So it really depends what youwant out of the game.
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (27:05):
I have 36.9 hours in the game, and I'm just I'm like
30 minutes into act three.
SPEAKER_03 (27:16):
That's fun.
SPEAKER_01 (27:18):
Oh, this is not Expedition 33, but it is two
things that I've done in mygaming that I want to talk
about.
I started Kingdom Hearts.
One.
Yes, I did.
I won eventually Platinum Trophyit, but I have no trophies, so I
have to just play it.
And I made it through TraverseTown, so I'm gonna get my gummy
(27:40):
ship next time I play, and I'mgonna get to leave, I'm gonna
get to go to Alice inWonderland, I think is the first
Disney World, but it doesn'tmatter.
I'll do it as they come.
And I also off-stream have beenplaying the Mortal Kombat
collection, and it's just such acool experience because they
have rewind.
(28:00):
You can push the left stick inand rewind, you can do debug
menus on the arcades, and youcan really choose to have you
can choose to have your movelist displayed on the top left
of the screen, so you know yourspecial moves at all times.
And I was able to beat MortalKombat 1 on arcade and Genesis
(28:23):
and Mortal Kombat 2 on arcade,and yesterday morning I beat
Mortal Kombat 3 with Cyrax.
So my my my winning charactersso far are Scorpion, Liu Kang
for Mortal Kombat 1, Baraka for2, and Cyrax for Mortal Kombat
3.
(28:43):
And it's just really taking meback because that's the origin
of me as a gamer.
That's where the description ofoh, that's Daniel, and he plays
video games is even my veryfirst fight I ever did was at a
pizza hut.
I picked to play as Kano, Ifought Raiden, Raiden destroyed
me.
I got to relive that match on mybig TV in my living room, and I
(29:07):
felt connected to things acrossthe entire timeline of my life.
And I just wanted to share likemoments like that, whatever your
game is, we all have that in us,and it's just really magical
when a game company takes timeto bring us a chance to find
(29:28):
that moment again.
SPEAKER_03 (29:33):
Yeah, I feel like Claire is giving me that.
Elden Ring gave me that, but ina different way.
SPEAKER_02 (29:48):
I enjoy a good story where Elden Ring, I didn't care
about the story as much asmaking a promise to myself that
I wasn't gonna let that.
That game beat me.
SPEAKER_01 (30:04):
That game became a status symbol for the players
who played it.
SPEAKER_03 (30:12):
Yeah.
You're right.
SPEAKER_02 (30:14):
You know why?
Because this guy at the lumberyard where he works at the
counter, he's like a countersalesman.
He was dressed up as, oh my God,you guys are gonna be so mad.
What's the elf from Legolas?
SPEAKER_01 (30:26):
From Lord of the Rings.
SPEAKER_02 (30:28):
Lord of the Rings.
And he was dressed up asLegolas, and he looked legit,
right?
And I was like, bro, you game?
He goes, Of course I do.
I was like, okay, what do youplay?
He goes, Elden Ring, baby.
And I was like, I beat EldenRing.
He goes, What's your build?
And then I was like, Moonvale.
He goes, it's like cheating.
And I was like, bro, that wasn'tcheating.
(30:49):
That's game hard.
And he started laughing.
He's like, oh man, I did thislike super bonk build and blah,
blah, blah.
He's like rambling off.
I was like, whoa.
This and I was like, all right,you play Dark Souls?
Nah, I'm in Securo now, and thatis the hardest game I've ever
played.
I'm like, all right, here we go.
This guy's a gamer.
And I was like, oh, you playClaire?
(31:09):
And he's like, it's on my list.
My girlfriend bought it for me,and I just haven't played it
yet.
He's because I'm when I wasbecause I can't put these
FromSoft games down.
SPEAKER_01 (31:23):
I had a similar situation with this.
We were on a Disney cruise thispast summer.
To Alaska.
And you get Yeah, to Alaska.
And we had you get the samefamily to sit with you at all
the restaurants every singlenight.
So you really get to know them.
He's this big musley dude with abeard.
Like he could bench press six ofme if he wanted to.
(31:43):
Really nice guy, and wasfascinated by what I do.
And I was talking with him aboutwhat he does, but he had to be
secretive because of likecompany NDA and stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (31:52):
So basically he's the Navy SEAL.
SPEAKER_01 (31:56):
It was like finance, actually.
So like big buff guy that doesmoney stuff.
And he's Alberut.
He was he was talking to meabout the video games he's
playing.
And the first dinner, he justlooks at me.
I'm wearing a video game shirt,don't remember which one.
And he just do games andpsychology, right?
(32:18):
I was like, Yeah, he's what doyou think about Claire Obscure
Expedition 33?
I almost died.
And my wife is sitting next tome, and she's just so thrilled
that I got this person to bondwith at all these dinners.
So then we just talked aboutExpedition 33 for the whole 90
minutes.
He's like, When we get a goodinternet signal, I'm gonna buy
(32:40):
it, I'm gonna get on my laptop,I'm gonna tell you what I think
about it.
And and so that was really fun.
SPEAKER_02 (32:45):
Well, what plays?
SPEAKER_01 (32:47):
He talked to me a lot about Halo and Show, yep,
MLB the show.
SPEAKER_02 (32:52):
That's a good game, man.
SPEAKER_01 (32:54):
Yeah, I know.
Yeah, so a lot of sports gamesand a lot of shooter games, but
he was just thinking like hetalked to me also about Zelda
games that he played when he wasmuch younger.
So he had an itch to get a storygame, I think is what he was
talking to me.
And of course, I dropped namedropped my book and tried to be
interesting sounding.
(33:14):
It worked The Gamer's Journey.
I have a question for you,Marcus.
When I said I was playingKingdom Hearts, you said, Oh,
interesting, and we didn't getany follow-up, and I want to
hear from you what that means.
SPEAKER_02 (33:29):
I thought you played a lot of, I thought you've beat
them all.
Like, I thought you've playedthem all.
You love Kingdom Hearts.
SPEAKER_01 (33:37):
Yeah, so I do.
I love Kingdom Hearts.
It's one of the three mostimportant game franchises to
understand what I'm saying inthe gamers' journey, right?
It really comes down tounderstanding Kingdom Hearts,
understanding the Legend ofZelda, and maybe a few others,
but I had to challenge myself todo certain sections of that book
(33:59):
without Kingdom Hearts because Ididn't want people to think I
was writing the psychology ofKingdom Hearts.
Maybe I should write thatsomeday.
I don't know.
I think it would sell prettywell.
But I hired a coach for myYouTube channel through vidIQ,
so I get to meet with him acouple times a week.
We're working on a video for meto create about Kingdom Hearts
(34:21):
and overcoming the darkness andusing games in our mental health
journey.
And so, in order to get readyfor that, I wanted to have some
footage of me playing the gameas B-roll.
So just that morning, I wasreally thinking about the
script.
I was thinking about the outlineand what kinds of things I'm
(34:42):
trying to target.
And a lot of those moments areearly in the game.
So I thought I can get thisfootage now or in one or two
more streams after today.
And so I just decided to do itbecause that was the thing that
felt the most relevant for methat morning.
And when I wake up in themorning, I don't have a plan of
(35:02):
what I'm gonna stream, and maybethis is a problem.
It's whatever I feel like, andKingdom Hearts is what I felt
like that morning.
I can't explain it.
SPEAKER_02 (35:11):
I'm gonna start texting you every day at 8 45
a.m.
that says Mass Effect.
SPEAKER_01 (35:17):
It might work.
Like I've been seeing, listen, Ido have a problem when people
tell me to play a game and I'mgonna like it.
My brain is such a contradictorymess.
It's oh, you watch, I'm notgonna like this.
And and I think that did happenwith Mass Effect, and it's not
your fault, actually.
The best man at my wedding mademe borrow Mass Effect on the PC,
(35:42):
and I never even installed itbecause I was like, I didn't ask
for your game.
I if I'm gonna play this, I'drather just play Knights of the
Old Republic and havelightsabers, sure.
And that's that's not the rightmentality.
I wish I okay, it can be theright mentality if I really love
Star Wars that much.
And in the late 2010 years, Idid love Star Wars that much,
(36:07):
very much.
But I do regret that mindset.
Someday I will play Mass Effect.
I might wake up on Monday and belike, it's a Mass Effect day.
None of us know.
SPEAKER_00 (36:19):
None of us do know.
SPEAKER_01 (36:21):
I just have to meet someone in that game that I want
to romance, and then it's on.
I have to turn on my safe searchand do some Googling to figure
out if this is a thing, becauseI don't want to actually
(36:41):
accidentally stumble into theweird side of the Mass Effect
fandom.
SPEAKER_02 (36:46):
I don't think there is one.
SPEAKER_01 (36:49):
I think there definitely is a weird side of
the Mass Effect fandom.
SPEAKER_00 (36:53):
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (36:56):
Which means we're on the weird side.
SPEAKER_00 (36:57):
It's okay then.
SPEAKER_01 (36:58):
There's some thirsty gamers out there, Marcus.
SPEAKER_02 (37:01):
Yeah, maybe.
SPEAKER_01 (37:03):
I don't know.
I don't look at it like that,but how many hours does it take
to finish Mass Effect 1?
A lot.
I need a short game with a storythat packs a punch.
SPEAKER_03 (37:17):
Oh, let's see.
SPEAKER_01 (37:21):
I've never streamed that.
I did Platinum Trophy italready.
It is one of my favorite gamesof all time.
SPEAKER_02 (37:26):
Heavy Rain's a good one.
Mass Effect 1, 2, or 3 is a goodone.
Did I mention Mass Effect?
SPEAKER_01 (37:33):
You did.
Alright, great.
I could just I could also pickup Horizon Zero Dawn, which I
streamed one time last year andnever came back because my aim
is so bad.
But I've been playing Fortnite,so maybe my aim is a little
better.
SPEAKER_02 (37:49):
Yeah, see, it's hard because a lot of these games are
it's gonna take some hours.
Yeah.
And being this is the biggestproblem with streaming, is
you're picking a game that packsa punch in a short period of
time, so you can your streamaudience.
(38:09):
Ignore it.
Yes, your exactly your streamaudience can enjoy the game, and
that's what sucks.
And I don't mean that in awicked negative way, I'm just
saying that you have to you haveto overcome that.
And the way you can do that isif I'm gonna use Expedition 33
as an example.
It's a long game, you don't wantto play it.
(38:31):
There's nothing wrong with youscreen recording yourself
playing it for three hours andthen just posting that video on
your YouTube channel, or youknow what I'm saying, or get
clips from it.
You don't need to play the wholething continuously through your
stream, I guess is what I'msaying.
You can play these games offstream.
(38:52):
A game, too, that would bereally interesting for me to see
you play is cyberpunk.
SPEAKER_01 (38:59):
I do have cyberpunk, and I've thought about that a
lot.
No, I've never played it.
SPEAKER_02 (39:04):
So that has I've only played three or four hours
of it, and that has some crazydecision-making story elements.
The graphics are beautiful,which that's important to me,
and the story is incredible, andyou're in a super futuristic
(39:25):
world.
Have you played CyberpunkDoritos?
SPEAKER_01 (39:30):
No, I haven't.
Okay.
I'm not doing sure it's greatbecause I am a I'm a fan of The
Witcher.
Same company.
SPEAKER_02 (39:39):
The other game you could play is like a Final
Fantasy X.
SPEAKER_01 (39:43):
I've only played Final Fantasy X one time, and
that's before I was even amaster's level counselor.
Like I was a baby adult.
SPEAKER_02 (39:53):
But that's a long game.
That's an 80-hour game.
SPEAKER_01 (39:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (39:58):
It's hard because all of these games are most
games are 30 hours plus.
What's the Laura Croft game,Doritos, that you played that I
watched you play?
SPEAKER_00 (40:10):
I'll play all three of the new series, Two Raider
Rise and Shadow.
SPEAKER_02 (40:14):
Yes.
Those are good games too.
SPEAKER_01 (40:16):
You would like those.
I'm about 70% through Shadow onmy Steam Deck.
That's like my air airplaneflight travel game.
SPEAKER_02 (40:24):
Okay, then that's out.
You could play Sekiro.
SPEAKER_01 (40:28):
I could.
SPEAKER_02 (40:29):
You know what I mean?
That's not a that's not astory-driven game necessarily,
but it's a combat, it's like adark, it's a Frumsov game, but
it's really hard.
And that's a game that you canplay for an hour and be okay on
stream because people are justgonna enjoy watching you die.
SPEAKER_01 (40:49):
I should do a special post in my classes for
students that are not passingthe class and be like, hey, I'm
going live.
Come watch me die.
Yeah, it's hard.
SPEAKER_02 (41:03):
A lot of these games are long.
I still think you should playCyberpunk because it's a
shooter, but it's also a wickedRPG.
I tell you to play the what doyou call it?
I got The Witcher, but that's ahundred-hour game.
SPEAKER_01 (41:27):
If I did play The Witcher, I wrote a chapter in
psychology of The Witcher, thenit creates another set of really
interesting content for whatI've become on both sides of my
identity, the game player andthe academic who studies and
analyzes games.
(41:48):
Right.
And I've thought about that alot.
Like, eventually, I think I wantto get my own Switch 2 and the
new Pokemon.
I don't want to play the newPokemon on my Switch 1.
I just don't.
There I just can't imagine itworks well.
SPEAKER_02 (42:03):
The game is terrible.
Don't even buy it.
Really?
The new Pokemon game isterrible.
All the Pokemon people that Iknow, they say it's the worst
game ever.
SPEAKER_01 (42:13):
Oh no.
My son liked it.
Anyway, I what I'm saying isthere's all these there's all
these games now that have donereally cool work to help analyze
it for people.
And I think that's what I'mtrying to do is build up the
(42:36):
content about me talking aboutgames, and that's where the
Kingdom Hearts stream came from.
I also think for better orworse, I think I have to settle
on one game and just play ituntil it's done.
If as a streamer, I think thisidea that I had in my head that
(42:59):
I can do Sunday, Monday,Thursday, and then bonuses on
Tuesday and Wednesday when I'mwell organized and ahead on
work.
And every day I just pick whatI'm gonna play.
I think that has led to thementality of I'm gonna skip a
stream.
If it's if I just say KingdomHearts is the game until Zora
(43:21):
defeats Ansom, spoiler alert, Ithink that would work better,
honestly.
I really do.
SPEAKER_02 (43:27):
I agree, but don't be afraid to play it off stream,
is what I'm saying.
If you have an hour or two hoursnow at night and you can play,
don't feel like you have to onlyplay that game in front of
people.
There's no reason why you can'tdo two chapters and then the
next stream you're at Hercules.
SPEAKER_01 (43:49):
Doritos, I want to ask you this because you are a
very diligent viewer for mychannel.
You're usually there.
If I were on Alice inWonderland, the first Disney
World you run into on my Sundaystream, and we beat that, it's
great.
We're on our way to Tarzan.
And then on Thursday, it's guys,I've played about 11 hours, and
(44:14):
now we're at Halloween town andwe're two Disney Worlds away
from the end.
How would you feel if I justblipped us forward in the story
40% of the game?
SPEAKER_00 (44:30):
It would we would feel left out because you like
to have us come along with thejourney.
Interacting with the streamwhile you're doing the game, so
you can have the conversations,and you like sharing tidbits for
each world, and how and how theencounter, even like the major
(44:55):
encounters, how they go and someof the other how that relates to
the gamers' journey and themodern monolith, how all that
ties together with those type ofgames.
So we would feel somewhat leftout because you're leaving out a
good chunk of how so you've metthe mentor, you've done all
(45:17):
that, and all of a sudden you'rejumping to okay, I'm Supreme
Ordeal Road of Trials.
Yeah, right.
So you're missing a big chunk inthere of how this now relates to
the gamers' journey, and we'replaying catch-up, going, okay.
You know, if you're justwatching it for the gameplay and
the entertainment, hey, thatokay, I don't think it's really
gonna matter where you jump to.
(45:38):
But as you like to be bringpeople along the journey of the
game, you will probably feelsomewhat dissatisfied, and a
large chunk of the viewers wouldbe going, okay, we missed a
whole lot because you played itoffline.
SPEAKER_01 (45:53):
Okay, I think if I would have answered it myself, a
lot of those same beats wouldhave been in there, but it's
really helpful to hear fromsomeone who watches what I do.
I think my second playthrough ofClaire Obscure was much better
than my first as well.
Why?
(46:13):
Because I had the broad beats ofthe story in my head already,
and so I had more of an analysisprepared of this is this moment.
Pay attention to this character.
But when you're trying to payattention to chat and watch a
brand new cutscene with lots ofstuff happening, right, you miss
(46:36):
stuff, and you're just like,what just happened?
So the kinds of things I do as astreamer, I'm constantly
tinkering with it, and I thinkdifferent games are pushing me
to do different things.
And if it's a story I've neverseen before, I almost wish that
(46:58):
my stream of it would be mysecond time doing it.
But that's tough too, becausenow I have if I want to do that
with Mass Effect or something, Ineed to beat Mass Effect off
stream and then come back andplay it again on stream, which
is never gonna happen because Igotta just play it one time.
So I'm Marcus, I see you shakingyour head, but I'm that's what
(47:18):
it sounds like, me literallytrying to figure out how do I
get the kind of content I'mgonna be excited by from a
playthrough of Mass Effect.
And because I don't know whatthe game really is, other than
its reputation, the things Ineed to know about are just in
the shadows.
I can't imagine them yet.
SPEAKER_02 (47:40):
I was smiling because I have two words.
Mass Effect sentence.
Oh.
Ah you're making print theshirt.
Right.
You're making all of your gamingdecisions based off of
streaming, not based off of thegame you want to play and how
you want to play it.
(48:00):
That's where I'm actually withDoritos because when you play a
game and you're going in step bystep, your content actually gets
better throughout the contentbecause you have a really good
mind.
With do you guys remember backin act one fighting the demi dog
(48:21):
and how that dog jumps at youand claws this way and how it
blinds you?
But then the next boss, sixhours later, you remember that
and you talk about that and youconnect dots.
And obviously, everything I justsaid is just a placeholder.
SPEAKER_01 (48:38):
Yeah, but you I love that you said demi dog though,
because that just sounds likesuch a clever thing that a game
dev would call it.
SPEAKER_02 (48:46):
I'm just stranger, I'm in stranger things mode
right now.
SPEAKER_01 (48:49):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (48:50):
But the point I'm trying to make, so Doritos is a
hundred percent with what heused as your example of your
viewers missing out.
But the problem is now you'resacrificing a game that you want
to play, and I'm not talkingabout Mass Effect, I'm just
talking about any game.
You're sacrificing that gamebecause it's not for your
(49:12):
viewers' pleasure.
You know what I mean?
So that's where the prisonsentence always comes in.
So that let me challenge you tothis.
Why can't you play KingdomHearts on stream and play Mass
Effect when you're notstreaming?
Play off stream.
SPEAKER_01 (49:29):
I could, once I have finished all of the Mortal
Kombat.
SPEAKER_02 (49:34):
I'm using Mass Effect as a placeholder, right?
Yeah.
Because that's a game orcyberpunk or whatever.
You don't have to play everygame on stream.
You don't.
You can talk about you can givepeople your Mass Effect content
weekly on the gaming persona.
SPEAKER_01 (49:51):
That's very true.
I was just going to say thatabout a minute ago, and then we
got to the same point.
SPEAKER_02 (49:58):
That's a really good you don't need to stream every
game, and that's where I was allthose was probably three years
ago, now or four years ago.
But that's where I was, doc.
And I was a nobody streamer.
Don't I'm not saying I was thistop dog.
That's not what I'm trying tosay.
But I was making my decisionsbased off of stream instead of
(50:22):
what I actually wanted.
But Doritos is right.
If you play a game, you shouldplay it all the way through, and
just play two games and use thegaming persona and your quests
to talk about that content ofthe second game.
Make people drive people to thepodcast and your solo quest.
SPEAKER_01 (50:41):
This is the pep talk I needed.
SPEAKER_02 (50:43):
I give them to you.
My friends are my power.
With your powers combined, he isDr.
Gameology.
SPEAKER_01 (50:53):
That's really nice.
Thanks for the support.
Thanks for the pep talk.
SPEAKER_02 (50:58):
Can I ask you one question before we wrap up?
Because I know we're coming tothis end.
What's the name of your book?
SPEAKER_01 (51:06):
The Gamer's Journey.
SPEAKER_02 (51:08):
Continue the journey.
SPEAKER_01 (51:10):
Oh, that's a spoiler.
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