Dogs, Decoys, and Dedication: A Hunter's Journey

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Travis Henderson from Trigger Traditions Outdoors shares his passion for waterfowl hunting and explains why seeing the dog work aspect of upland and waterfowl hunting brings him so much joy compared to other hunting styles.

• Lives in Sussex County, NJ and primarily hunts waterfowl and upland game
• Started Trigger Traditions as a way to document hunting memories with friends
• Hunts across multiple states including trips to Montana and Argentina
• Recently harvested his first turkey of the season using stealth and patience
• Uses a Browning Maxus Wicked Wing shotgun with full choke for turkey hunting
• Explains how reading turkey behavior and adjusting call frequency/cadence leads to success
• Shares the social aspects that make waterfowl hunting uniquely enjoyable
• Describes the excitement of having hundreds of birds working a decoy spread
• Emphasizes the importance of proper scouting for waterfowl similar to deer hunting
• Discusses how regional differences affect hunting techniques and game flavor
• Highlights the special bond between hunters and their dogs

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Garden State Outdoors and
Podcast presented by BooneCutting you know and that's why
you're your um your tagline,like JCL known, perfect.

Speaker 3 (00:07):
You don't know what's up, man?

Speaker 2 (00:10):
you don't know what's up man.
You don't know what's up, man.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
I accidentally drifted in my canoe between a
sow and a cub and she like,charged and like hit like the
back of the canoe.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
His head hit the ground before his ass hit.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
Begging, begging and crying.
To go with my grandfather, gowith my father on these deer
drives.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
You know, the last trip over I shot a great Cape
Buffalo with my battle ofcharging bluegrass.
And then the whooping.
And then you hear Welcome tothe Garden State Outdoors and
Podcast.
I'm your host, Frank Mastica.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
I'm your co-host Mike Nitre.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
The old Squ outdoors and podcasts.
I'm your host, frank mastica.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
I'm your co-host, mike nitre.
The old squatch is hanging outand today we got a very special
guest, mr travis henderson fromtrigger traditions outdoors.
Travis, welcome to the show manthank you guys for having me.

Speaker 4 (00:58):
Uh, it's gonna be a good talk no, I appreciate you
coming on man.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
So, travis, why don't you uh just give us a little
background on uh?
You know, like, who you are,what you do, where you live?

Speaker 4 (01:10):
yeah, just give us a little background there yeah, so
, um, I live in sussex countynear you guys.
I'm in vernon, um, I'mpredominantly a waterfowl hunter
.
Um, I find a lot more enjoymentin waterfowl upland working
with dogs, especially becauseseeing like the whole dog work
part of it, like that's just somuch more fun to it.

(01:30):
And it's relatively been new tome within like the past like
five, six years or so, butespecially like before COVID
like kind of opened your eyes alittle bit more to be outside,
more um kind of stuff like that.
And we started this TriggerTraditions page, me and a couple
buddies, uh, years ago, and tous it was kind of just a way to

(01:52):
document, like how you guysmentioned before we started
recording.
It's just like the memories.
This was just gonna pretty muchjust be like a blog, like throw
up this stuff that the trips wego on, like the memories that
we have, and it kind of turnedinto like our own little
community.
Um, so we're just continuing tohunt as much as we can and beat
new people and have fun yeah,man, definitely that.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
That's what it's all about right there.
So we, you know that's all ofus and we all try to get out
together as much as possible.
Just create some cool content,take the families out, it's.
It's all just about having funand getting out there, man,
honestly yeah, exactly so but uh, where?
Where exactly do you hunt?

(02:31):
Because you you're from, youlive in Vernon.
I live right in Wantage, righton the other side of you.
So do you hunt?
You hunt state land up there.
You got private property.

Speaker 4 (02:40):
So I have a couple friends in places around here
with private property.
I'm originally from Stockholm,so it's still Sussex County, but
a lot of state land over therebecause my parents' house kind
of backs up to the woods andeverything over there.
So a lot of public landprimarily, but occasionally
we'll do some private land stuff.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Wow, no, that's awesome.
I mean I got one private pieceby me.
The rest is all federal land.
I know squatch has got a bunchof you know um private land over
by him.
Mike's just state land overthere running and gunning all
the time.
So I try to get over to hollahim when I could.
But no, that definitely awesome.

(03:24):
And especially have you soclose and I was like damn man, I
like I was like I never.
I can't believe we never raninto each other before.

Speaker 4 (03:33):
We might have at one point.
Yeah, yeah, you never reallyknow the amount of times, like
when you do go public landhunting and it's the struggle
with everybody is just trying tofind somewhere that other
people aren't willing to go to,because you have the people
that'll park on the side of theroad and kind of just walk maybe
100 yards in, but kind ofmaking that difference to go up

(03:56):
over that hill, go as far backas you can or you're willing to,
to look for other kinds of signto kind of set yourself away
from the other hunting pressure.
But, um, we still run intopeople here and there like
trying to roost birds.
Last week I saw some guys righton the side of the road where I
was going to pull off to dosome striking and stuff like

(04:16):
that, and I'm lucky to have, um,some friends that have some
private land.
Uh, we got like a couple placeslike two, three hundred acres,
um, and it's like diversity,like you got fields, you got
ponds, stuff like that, and youcan't really ask for any more
than that.
But nothing really beats kindof head to head, I guess you
want to say on public land, butit's kind of.

(04:37):
However you take it yeah, no,absolutely not.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
And you guys, do you?
Do you stage just strictly insussex county or do you branch
out more?

Speaker 4 (04:47):
I'll go pretty much just about anywhere.
We go up to the Finger Lakesfor snow goose hunting.
We'll go farther south southJersey for duck goose.
We've gone to PA.
We went to Montana this pastyear hunting season for a duck
and upland hunt In thesummertime because the seasons

(05:09):
are flopped.
I went to Argentina for a weekfor duck hunting, so that was
pretty big.
And this upcoming year we'regoing to go to Texas and Kansas.
So I mean pretty much anywherewe can go.
Vermont, turkey season I wentthere last year, it just started
this month, so I'm going gonnaprobably go up there in two
weeks.
Nice, I'm gonna try my luck upthere.

(05:31):
But, um, yeah, it's pretty muchwherever you're willing to go,
you know, and you got to kind ofbranch out a little bit, have
more fun, because when you go tonew places with friends it's
like you're all experiencing itfor the first time together yeah
, no, I'm absolute, and you knowit's like you're all
experiencing it for the firsttime together.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yeah, no, absolutely, and you know it's just like you
say.
Like I keep I always keepsaying that on the show too Like
that's one thing I alwayswanted to get into was duck
hunting, like I think of all ofus, I think Mike's got the most
experience duck hunting out ofall of us.
I mean, I'm just so intriguedby it.
I just, you know, I just, Ijust I need to try at one point

(06:08):
in my life.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah, no, we should definitely get you guys out one
day.
You're also coming with us nextyear.
No, yeah, that's true, butabout it.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
Yep, I'm looking forward to that.
So, but I I know that youmentioned before too that, uh,
you had.
You had actually recently.
I don't know if mike heard, butyou recently just killed a nice
bird today.
Why don't you talk about that alittle bit?

Speaker 4 (06:33):
yeah, so I got a bird this morning actually it's
first bird of the season um, itkind of was a pretty fast hunt
because I was in that area theday before um, lots of tracks
and everything I did a giantcircle and probably about like
45 minutes an hour.
I get back to where the circlestarted.
There was fresh tracks becauseit was raining last night you

(06:54):
gotta be kidding me.
So I went back, um, I didn'tmake it even to um sunrise
because I was a little bit latethis morning, had stuff going on
but walked down the trail,started to get into the woods
and maybe like 15 minutes in I'mstarting to try to cross this
little river bank and I hit astrike call and the bird's
probably like 50 yards away fromme and, like I mentioned before

(07:19):
, like I use it as a reference,it's like that meme where
shaquille o'neal's trying tohide behind like that little
tree, something like the onlything next to me was either like
little saplings and like ferns,so like I was just trying to
just pretty much just sat my assin the mud and eventually he
came up over the corner umstarted to kind of walk down

(07:40):
like a little bit of a cut andhe probably about like seven,
eight yards Cause there was likeone tree up ahead that he kind
of got stuck behind.
But once he kind of made thatlittle bit of mistake, it was
game over.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
It was game over Nice .
Would you shoot him a 12 gauge?

Speaker 4 (07:56):
Yeah, 12 gauge.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yeah, what, what's your your setup?
Like like, what do you shoot?
Like, like, what do you shootyou shooting like?

Speaker 4 (08:03):
the CSS is or yeah, I shoot three and a half inch,
especially come like gooseseason I'll always shoot like
three and a half inch BB.
But as far as turkey hunting,like just your standard full
choke.
I have the Browning MaxisWicked Wing, so it comes with.

(08:24):
It came with four chokes.
I just run the main full one onthere.
I've dabbled a little bitbefore with other chokes.
My friends have some other oneslike the Cremator and stuff
like that, and it patterns wellfor me and every gun's different
with every ammo, so you knowjust whatever works best for you
, yep.

Speaker 3 (08:41):
I know Squatch is excited about uh killer setup
he's got this year yeah, my uh,I've been using an 835 utility
mag for over 20 years and, uh,there you go, I've ran the extra
full mossberg choke in it foryears.
But you know, we just boughtfrank and I just bought the cv
life.
Uh, holographic sight for that,for the top, you know reflex

(09:04):
sight and put it on.
I was sighting a gun in patternand different stuff.
And let me tell you somethingI'm no slouch, I'm 250.
My shoulder was black and blueman from that freaking gun going
seven times in my shoulder.
Oh, yeah after the third shot Iwas like I don't want to shoot
this again.
But I got him, you know.
But, uh, really good setup.

(09:26):
I.
I had the gun pattern, good.
But with that extra particularsight being so precise on there,
I said you know my pattern's alittle wide at like 40, 45 and I
like to reach out and touchthem.
So I spent the money.
I bought a carlson choke.
I went to a 683 uh diameterchoke.
I was shooting like a 730 thatwas stock on the mossberg for

(09:50):
the extra full.
So uh found out that the threeand a half winchester super mags
that I was shooting are, uh,number fives man pattern in like
a freaking pie plate at like 40yards.
So I was like, okay, it's good.
And you know, god willing andand I'm so thankful and grateful
, not only you know with frankbeing with me and being there,

(10:12):
that thing hammered that bird.
I mean hammered.
There was no shot in the breastlike I usually get.
Yeah, you know, because it'ssuch a wide pattern.
Everything was in the head.
And when I, when I breast thatbird out the other day after I
got home, I was like look atthis, there's no freaking shot
in the breast.
I was like that's so awesome.
I'm like I was just so happyand I mean the bird never knew

(10:34):
what hit him, he just was lightsout man instantly.
And you know, frank came soclose.
He had multiple birds coming in.
We had him Sunday running ineven between the pouring rain
and Frank's got a cool gun too.
But I got that extra range andI was like Frankie, they're out
far.
I'm like take my gun.

(10:55):
He was like a millisecond awayfrom squeezing the trigger but
it's a good setup.
I'm glad I switched it atCarlson choke.
It makes it makes a lot ofdifference and you know you
don't have to spend money.
Even I get it.
It patterns tighter further outwith the tungsten.
But if you don't want to spendthat money or you don't have the
money to spend, just spend themoney on a choke, because it'll

(11:16):
still do the same procedure.
You know what I mean.
It gets it, gets the stuff outthere.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (11:20):
I mean the choke makes such a huge difference,
like I mean, like you mentioned,like no, no shot in the breast
and everybody knows it's a pain,especially birds.
Luckily for me it was prettymuch all head this morning
because at that close if I washitting it into the breast
there's obviously somethingwrong with my eyes.
But like, even in waterfowlhunting, like the choke makes a

(11:42):
huge difference.
Like, cause not everybodyshoots the same.
Everybody has a differentmounting style.
Sometimes it takes a little bitlonger to get that gun up but
depending on whether you'reshooting, some people like to
leave a full in.
I personally don't forwaterfowl, but like I'll run
like a mod or something.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
But everybody kind of has their own little taste to
it yeah, I know, I think uhsquatch, he was a little worried
about me when, uh when, justwhen I was about to pull that
trigger, he was like frankie,remember, I'm 250, hold on to
that fucking gun.

(12:18):
At that point I was so laserfocused I wasn't even thinking
about like the kick or nothing,obviously, but he was like
remember the old squats gotblack and blue I was like, I was
like dude, let me tell you justbe ready, because that it's a
whole nother animal holding onto that shotgun man.
That thing's a beast but yeah,so anyway, all right.

(12:43):
So enough of that talk.
So I want to talk to youactually about um.
I know, I know like you're moreof a duck hunter or whatever,
but I did see on on yourinstagram that you had a whole
bunch of like.
You had like some deer in thereand some other stuff.
So, like are you a big deerhunter?
Like?
How does like deer hunting fallfor for you as compared to like

(13:03):
duck hunting?

Speaker 4 (13:05):
So waterfowl kind of always takes a priority for me
because to me it's more of likea social thing to be with
friends, to be with run dogs,stuff like that Deer like.
I've done some deer drives overthe years with friends.
We've had some success thereand sat in a tree a couple times

(13:27):
last season.
But the main deer I shot lastyear I don't know if you saw my
personal page, but he had thatkind of like that weird drop on
his one side.
It's because he had that crossleg injury.
But I wasn't really even outfor a deer that week.
I sat all week every day for abear and not a single bear came
in.
And on the very last day thatdeer came in I was like I'm

(13:48):
leaving with something.
No, I've sat this long, I'vesat here all week I'm, I'm
coming home with something, uh.
But aside from that, just somedoes for a freezer filler, stuff
like that yeah, go figure.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
Like you know, you're out there to kill a bear, you
see them every other time.
But when you go out there ofkill a bear, you see them every
other time, but when you go outthere, of course they don't show
up yeah, and we didn't.

Speaker 4 (14:09):
We didn't have that deer on camera either.
So and it's not like I've hadanything crazy on my cameras
over the years that we want tobe like.
I got to be in the woods everysingle day like for weeks at a
time, checking cameras, doingmore scouting, trying to figure
out where he's bedding.
Obviously, when that deer kindof comes into the area and you

(14:30):
have it on camera, then totallydifferent story.
But from the places I've been,um, a lot of small deer aside
from that one my buddy killedpretty much in the same area.
He got a nice 11 um and thatwas like a week after probably I
shot mine and we never saw thatone on camera either.

(14:50):
Um, so like you really neverknow, unless you're gonna be in
the tree, uh, but to me it comesdown to I like to have a game
plan ahead of time.
I don't want to just go up andsit and kind of see what kind of
happens and unfolds.
I'd rather kind of have my eggsin order, know what's kind of
in the area, have multiplecameras set up in different
areas and kind of take mypickings that way.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah, no, because I know like, especially where I
hunt, it's like I'll get a wholebunch.
I'll get like the same deer oncamera constantly, constantly
get a whole bunch.
I'll get like the same deer oncamera constantly, constantly.
And then all of a sudden it'sjust like boom, like those deer
that I was watching or you knowscouting for, or now they're all
gone.
Now I got a whole bunch of newones that I'm trying to figure

(15:35):
out.

Speaker 4 (15:36):
And here's season, and I'm sitting there trying to
figure it all out and I'm like,oh, you know, like it happens to
me every year, I'm like what apain in the ass yeah, like my
one buddy like kind of near me,he had a giant on camera and he
kept sitting all year but wejust kept having this, this same
little four point, these littleforks no brow tines just every

(15:58):
day, like you could.
You could literally just standin the tree, look down and throw
them like a little debbie cakeif you wanted to.
You needed somebody to kill afour point.
Just bring them right there,like that deer was there every
single day and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
Like when I see that, like on camera, like it won't
get me as excited, uh, but soquick question, not not to cut
off, so because obviously you'reso you know diehard and
invested into waterfowl.
You're not, you're not one ofthose hunters that has a saddle
full, everything like that.
So you are you hunting out ofhang ons and and ladder stands

(16:36):
like that, just so you're notgoing to be nearly as mobile.
So when you do have situationslike that, like you, like you
said, you kind of have to bemore picky and you want to pick
the exact right time to go inand everything like that, just
because you don't have theadvantage of being as mobile and
being able to move around as asmuch yeah, I mean.

Speaker 4 (16:55):
So I have a tethered saddle.
Um haven't really used it.
Um obviously put it on andplayed around with it.
Um I haven't had the opportunityto use it this past year, um I
got that as like a christmaspresent, but I have a summit
viper climber, um, and then wehave by my one buddy's place we
have a ladder stand, so it'sit's kind of like pick your

(17:17):
poison, like you said.
Like if I'm willing to like goout, like even if it just does
like earn your buck, you know,like I'll take the climber out
or the saddle if you have tokind of just find where you want
to be, if you want to pick inlike a little little cut or
something or a little Oxbow andjust hope for the best there.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
Right, yeah, now are you guys.
Do you guys usually bait, orare you?
You guys just just kind of like, got your spot and you'd rather
just scout and set up on themthat way?

Speaker 4 (17:49):
We'll bait, like with in front of a camera, try not
to obviously just set up rightover it.
Yeah, because it means a lotmore when you're set up in the
right spot at the right time andthe deer comes in on the same
path that you think he should becoming in on um, I feel like
there's like a lot of reward inthat um versus people like even

(18:11):
like bear hunters or somethinglike obviously you can't kill
within x amount of feet of abait pile, but I'm sure there's
probably plenty of people outthere that do do it.
Yeah, but to me it's just likeknowing that you can be in the
right spot at the right time.

Speaker 1 (18:27):
um is like one of the biggest things and that's what
kind of most of us have gone tohere, you know, at boondocks
hunting like especially me, peteand um zach, like we, we hunt
it kind of like deer, we hangand hunt and we're literally
just looking for the, thefreshest sign you know.
So it's all active, like we'rereally active, just moving

(18:48):
around looking for the freshestsign which is at that time of
the year.
It's always going to be a foodsource and it's going to either
be corn acorns or these berriesthat I they look like little
grapes um, I don't know if everyyou know if it's an invasive
species or whatever the hell itis, but it looks like grapes um,
and we found like they were.
They were munching on that alot last year.

(19:10):
So it's kind of like in thesame you'll, you'll bait them
and everything like that.
Do the pre-season baited, butonce, like I don't know
especially bear hunting, like Iused to be the huge believer of,
just like going, it's fun,doing the donuts and everything,
don't get me wrong the inteland you know, but it's also like
turned into a whole differentthing, like I will do the whole

(19:31):
baiting when you go to maine, orlike when you go to canada or
something like that, justbecause it's so hard to get on
bears.
You know, versus here in newjersey.
Listen, at the end of the daythere's so many bears and it's
oh yeah smaller space that youcan do the like.
It's a lot easier to do the hangand hunt and kind of just go
off of them on.

Speaker 4 (19:52):
You know their trails , you know their food sources
and everything like that yeah,and you can use like a synthetic
lure to like signal 11 orsomething like they have that
oreo cookie spray.
But, like this morning, I hadtwo bears knock over my
recycling can.
I was waiting for the therecycling guy to come, because I
won't put anything out thenight before and I brought it
out at six o'clock and they weresupposed to come at like 6 20.

(20:15):
Go to the bathroom, lookoutside the window.
It's already tipped over.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
There's cans and stuff all over the world like
it's not hard to find them, butno but especially up there,
because you know, becauseactually that's what I grew up
in, vernon and man, it was justlike you said, no matter within,
it's like, it's almost likethey're sitting there watching
you like put it out and be likeokay, now we went inside, you

(20:40):
know so I'm backed right up tolike this side of the mountain
like I'm in pbl.

Speaker 4 (20:44):
So okay, yeah, I'm on like the back side of the lake.
It's pretty much the woods upto the tower up there and they
pretty much just hang out upthere by the quarry pretty much
like all day.
Yeah, till they come down, theywant to go to goodfellas eat
all the pizza.
Look at this buffet.

(21:04):
We got over here.
There's always something aroundhere you got those italian bears
up there he looks, he's big, helooks italian so he must got
all the good stuff in hisgarbage well, luckily, I mean,
like I said, like I sat all weekum for bear, um didn't really

(21:29):
get the opportunity because tome, like I really want to get
one with a bow, still haven'tgotten a bear, but hopefully
coming into the next season,fingers crossed.
But we'll see good good eatingthey are so yummy no no, no, no,
no, no.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
I I I don't think you understand how.
Yes, and everyone who'slistening, who follows our show
religiously, knows how much welove bear hunting and how much
we love to eat bear.
Oh snap, my thing came on thecrap, um, but yes, I'll have to

(22:07):
do that later.
We love to eat there.
It is one of the best meatsI've ever had.
Like I don't know, love it.
Obviously trash bears we're notcounting trash bears, but like,
if you can get a good bearthat's eating acorns, um, corn
and more natural stuff andeverything like that.

(22:27):
Or if you want to give a beardonuts and feed them donuts.
Listen, they taste really good.
Like I don't know if you watchMeat Eater, but yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (22:39):
Honestly, we'll eat just about anything.
Yeah, same here.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
Same here with all of us.
So, um, you know, um I yeah,it's not an exaggeration I will
say what Frank, we, this will200, probably, by the time this
comes out, 220 episodes.
I'd say more than 75% of theguests that we've had have all
agreed that they like eatingbear and it's one of their

(23:06):
favorite meats.
We've only had one person saythey don't like it, and then
everybody else has yet to trybear.

Speaker 4 (23:14):
But that's how popular bear is.
Yeah, I haven't gotten to try ityet.
You make a good point onespecially like the meat, like a
bear that's eating actualacorns, actual stuff throughout
the woods, versus a dumpsterbear, because we have people
that have like the same approach, like that like geese, like we

(23:34):
kill probably around like 500birds in like new jersey this
year.
There's a lot of birds, but ifyou have ones that are hanging
out in Franklin Choprite parkinglot eating sweet and sour sauce
cups, ones that like when we,if you go up to like Pine Island
or something in that area, itlike up over the border of New

(23:54):
York, birds that are eatingactual food, combine cornfields,
stuff, like that, like it's atotally different taste.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
Yeah, a totally different taste.
Yeah, I also heard I don't knowhow true it is because I've
never had it, but I've heardlike I guess like it's either
duck or geese.
Somebody told me was actuallylike the meat's greasy.
I don't know how true that is.
Is that true?

Speaker 4 (24:17):
um, it is.
I mean more so duck, becauseduck is, it's an actual red meat
, it's like a steak.
A lot of people think when youshoot a duck or something it's
just like these little chickenbreasts or something is what
some people think, but it'sreally just like a fatty.
If you get a good fatty mallardwith the skin on and you have a

(24:40):
cast iron pan, you get thatnice and hot.
You really can't beat mallardduck.
Some of the ones, some of theones we brought back from
montana this year, um, size ofcats, practically way bigger
than jersey birds that we havehere, um, and just the taste of
them is unreal because we're outin the middle of nowhere.

(25:00):
They're eating actual food.
They're on the big rivers,there are plenty of farmland all
around the place and you justcan't beat a good mallard yeah,
I, I think it's.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
It goes like basically with every animal like
that, like different places ittastes different.
Because I know like when I gohunt upstate new york, the deer
I kill up there tastes differentthan the deer I shoot down here
.
And I don't know if that's justbecause you know people bait a
lot more down here or what it is, but it always tastes different

(25:33):
.
I like New York state deer, tobe honest with you, 100% better.
Yep.

Speaker 3 (25:39):
I noticed that with mountain deer that I've shot
because're mostly on an oakbeech nut kind of regimen, those
nuts are bitter, so it kind ofIt'll sour not sour, but I don't
know Like I call it like abitter.
It's almost like a little bitbitter taste to the venison.
And where I live is appleorchard country.

(26:03):
So those deer by far they're abetter eating deer here.
I mean those orchards man, whenthey eat them apples and stuff,
it just it's just a wholedifferent, better deer to eat, a
lot better.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yeah, no, I, I agree, apples and stuff, it just it's
just a whole different, betterdeer to eat a lot better.
Yeah, no, I, I agree.
So but um, I was also going toask actually I was going to
bring up a very good point thatyou know.
I know we got off the turkeytopic, but I wanted to bring it
up again, especially with likeum.
So I know you were sayingbefore like how, um, when you go

(26:39):
into new areas, even it evencould go for deer too as well.
You know, you got to kind oflearn, like, what those animals
do, what they want, to beresponsive.
And I I learned that this yearfrom squatch because I brought
him up to our place in New YorkState to hunt turkey for the
very first time he hasn't beenup there hunting at all yeah and

(27:00):
for him to figure out whatthese birds like he must have
had.
Like what, like 20, calls on youSquatch yeah, I well, I'd say
maybe 15, but between you and me.
We probably had like 20.

Speaker 3 (27:13):
I probably owned like 40 or 50 freaking different
calls.
But yeah, I carried likebetween 10 and 15 with me.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yeah, no, and it was.
It's just.
I guess it's so importantbecause you know how I see it is
a lot of people they're used tojust, you know, doing what
they're doing here or wherethey're hunting, doing what
they're doing here or wherethey're hunting.
And and actually I was tellingSquatch I said that's why I
think I wasn't as successful inNew York state as I was in

(27:42):
Jersey, because I kind of knewwhat the birds liked here and up
there, even though we had theproperty.
It took me like a while andactually I didn't even really
realize it until hunting, youknow, with Squatch this year,
that way.
And he like started explainingit to me and I was like shit,
man, like that really makessense.
Like because I would alwayswonder like why isn't this

(28:04):
working?
You know, like it workseverywhere else, like you know
where I hunt in jersey, but whyisn't it working up here?
Like I would get them to gobbleor whatever.
But that would be it, you know.
So I was just like what thehell?
And then when he explained tome I was like that makes a lot
of sense yeah and it's like it'slike trial by fire.

Speaker 4 (28:22):
Um, yeah, you'll kind of want to look at it that way,
but it's also like boots on theground.
Um, if you're hunting adifferent state like, I know
people that take trips to liketwo states up over down south.
Whichever direction you want togo, they're doing all sorts of
like e-scouting, looking at on x, um, getting a hold of people

(28:43):
via facebook, stuff like that toget access to certain areas.
But until you actually getthere and see it in person,
you're really not going to knowa whole lot.
Like, if you're going to lookat like topography maps and
stuff like that, you can get agreat idea of the landscape.
But until you can see like theforest floor, like what kind of
I don't know, like what kind ofgrass you guys got in the field,

(29:04):
like is it a crop, is it stufflike that like you really won't
know until you're actually thereand like that's the same thing.
Like here you said, the birds in, uh, new York totally different
than down here.
Down here it's a lot harder forme, but like up in Vermont,
when I was up there last seasonwith my friends, it's just you
could go freaking practicallyjust about anywhere.

(29:26):
You go like every 80 yards youdo a strike, these things just
fucking hammer back at you.
Yeah, but it's all kind of justknowing your area, I guess.
Yeah, but it's all.
It's all kind of just knowingyour area, I guess.

Speaker 3 (29:35):
Well, the big thing too with learning.
Like Frank said, I was thefirst time I was up to his
property and walked it with himtracking a deer last year but
actually hunting it.
So you know he, he knows thesetup, he knows like, okay, they
roost over here, I've seen themover here this and that, but
it's like I explained to peoplewith turkey hunting Okay, if you
can focus on a couple of thingswith turkey hunting, you will

(29:59):
be successful.
One is reading the temperatureto birds.
Okay If they're cutting you off.
If they're talking fast,they're hot.
Okay If they're just blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, they're
gobbling a little bit and theyget back to you every once in a
while.
They got hens with them.
They're not really like theycould give two craps who you are

(30:22):
.
They're not leaving the realthing.
But another thing that plays abig, big role is the amount of
hens to the, the jake and, andyou know gobbler ratios, that
the mature goblers and how muchthey have to, you know defend
their territory and what they'redoing and how many hens they
actually land on the ground withand stay with for most of the
morning.
A lot of guys.
And hey, you know what.
Over the years I've killed morebirds after 10 o'clock than

(30:44):
I've ever killed, getting themoff the roost, and the reason
being they are done breedingthat hen.
She wants to wall her back overto her nest.
She wants to be left alone.
Now they're looking for a hothen that hasn't been bred yet.
So now they start firing backoff again and your success will
go up then.
The other biggest thing is Itell people that there's two

(31:04):
more things.
It's the frequency and thecadence.
There's frequencies that theyhear and respond back to and it
could be just changing out amouth mouth call to from a bat
wing to like a regular, justregular cut, or you know
something in that frequency ofthat call.
And the other thing is yourcadence how you repeat the call,

(31:25):
how you mimic the live henthat's out there and where we
were sitting it reverberated offthe whole valley.
Where we were in there.
I didn't have to push it, Ididn't have to.
Really, you know, blow thatcall hard.
We were lightly calling.
I was just doing some reallight purrs and clucks on the
slate and they were respondingalmost a quarter mile away from

(31:46):
us back and he's like what thatbird?
He says that bird's hot for youand I was like, yeah, he's
gonna get a face full of shot assoon as he comes up to that
field.
You know, but uh, but it's,it's.
You know, you get into a spot,you read it.
And another thing like you know, frank is a very good hunter.
He's very knowledgeable, heknows his land.

(32:06):
But when I got into that placeI said frank, they're down in
that bottom and I know there'sprobably a couple on the top and
the ones on the top aremerry-go-round birds.
They'll run that that ridge toplooking for that hen.
These guys down on the bottomthey're gonna come up and he's
like I believe you, man, andsure as all heck.
It was like nine o'clock we hadtwo Toms come up and just stare

(32:30):
out into the field.
I'm like why aren't they comingin?
And I'm not over calling tothem or anything, and you know
sometimes less is more,curiosity kills the cat.
But they had the real deal infront of them.
We just saw four hens, notthree minutes before that, go to
same path.
And I told him.
I said you can have the bestlooking decoys.
I could be the best caller inthe world, which I'm far from

(32:51):
being, but let me tell yousomething you, the real deal,
they're not coming.
And it's no different than whenwe were all younger.
Especially like when I wasyounger I had to really work for
girls and if I had a hot chickin a bar that I was after, I
wasn't going to the bathroombecause I know my best friend
was going to sneak over and tryto take her away from me.

(33:11):
You know what I mean.
So the toms and deer, they alldo the same shit, so you know.
That's why I said you're moreproductive.
Sometimes after 9, 30, 10o'clock sit still.
Be patient.
If they're in the area, youwill find them.

Speaker 4 (33:25):
Yeah, nope yeah being able to being able to read them
, like you mentioned.
Like that's huge, um, like youcan have people just go out
there and start hail mary, juststart ripping calls, like it's
not gonna do you a whole lot.
No, um, because, like, if yougo the night before, because
like I'm big on roosting, liketrying to roost a bird the night

(33:46):
before, so you have a generalarea idea, um, but if you just
show up and you just starttrucking through the woods
screaming on a pot call or mouthread diaphragm call, whatever
it may be, yeah, they might justbe like what the fuck is this?

Speaker 3 (34:02):
you know, and it's like I was explaining to frankie
too, because after I shot mybird we had it on top of this
big round bale.
And he goes oh hey, there's acouple more up near next field.
I said come on, run to the,let's get back in there, maybe
we'll get you one too.
Well, this hen was beboppingaround back and forth, back and
forth through the field.
We got footage of her on thevideo, but she would call she

(34:26):
just beep, beep, beep, beep,beep.
That's all she's doing.
And I said you see, this iswhat people don't understand.
You're not mimicking the tone,the frequency and the cadence of
what those birds are doing.
In that area, and it's key.
You don't have to be that good,but if you can mimic what the
step is that you're doing andthe frequency that they do it,

(34:48):
you will be productive and youwill kill birds.
There are exceptions where I'vehad birds that are totally just
either deaf, dumb or where,like, a bird is literally close
to you and will hang up andyou've got to attack him hard
and then he'll break the ice andfinally come in.
You know, I've had that happenso many times.

(35:09):
But and I'm sure you know youknow guys that are seasoned like
you guys.
You know you have had it happentoo.
But every time we go out andlearn something new.
I like it up by Frankie.
It's a freaking challenge and ahalf because these birds are
smart.
There's a lot of differentbirds, they don't have to work
for their hens and to play themand get them in.
But, like he said, he goes.

(35:30):
I've been hunting here allthese years and I have birds
gobble and talk to me.
You're up here, they all theseyears and I have birds gobble
and talk to me.
You're up here.
They're coming from everyfreaking direction and you know
what it's.
I'm not bragging on myself,it's just a technique and being
patient and reading theterritory, reading the
temperature to birds, when tocall, when not to call, when to

(35:50):
get loud and bring them all theway up from where they're hiding
yeah, a lot of times less ismore.

Speaker 4 (35:56):
You know, yeah, um, and that that goes hand in hand
with even waterfowl too.
Um, if you have bird, if you'rewhere a bird wants to be, or if
you have a like a whole decoyspread set up, they're gonna
come.
You know there's no sense in ifwe have eight dudes all in
layouts or raw in an a-frame.
You know, like shoulder toshoulder, yeah, layering on

(36:18):
their calls.
You know it's, it's, it's notdoing you any justice.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
If you're on the x and it's where the birds want to
be, they're gonna come yeah,and that's even what happened
with scotch, when you shot hisbird, me, and we're just sitting
there, just you know,bullshitting about just life in
general.
He was teaching me a few things.
It must have been like twohours went by, or an hour and a
half at least, where we weren'teven.

(36:43):
We weren't even making a call.
We were just sitting there andthen all of a sudden I just get
up to stretch, I turn around andthere there's the bird, all
fanned out, like like 40 yardsaway from the blind, coming in
fast, you know, and I'm justlike I'm like squats, grab the
guns.
Actually a funny story.
I grabbed squash and I was likesquash, don't move.

(37:04):
Because even though we were inthe ground blind I don't know
what I was thinking, but becausewe can, he's got the ground
blind where you can see at likethe whole thing, but they can't
see in for some reason.
I thought the bird can see usand I was like don't move, he's
coming, grab the gun.

Speaker 3 (37:25):
Well, the funny thing was he goes oh, he's here, I go
, who's here?
He goes, the Tom, the Tom's outin the field.
I'm like you're shitting me.
He goes.
No, I said where and I lookedthrough the blind and I'm like,
oh, and he goes.
Don't move, squatch, don't move.
I'm like Frank, we can see them, they can't see us.
We're OK, buddy.
He's like, oh, all right, it'sjust so funny, man, you get

(37:50):
wrapped up.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
Yeah, we could laugh about it now, but we were
serious when it was going onthose ones are weird, though,
like the ones that you can, youcan't see, yeah 360 ones.

Speaker 4 (38:01):
Like I've never heard you hunted from a blind or
anything it's.
It's pretty much kind of like arunning gun and like this
morning, like I got stucksitting up against the fucking
sapling, yeah, but you know,like a lot of it just, and I
have such a hard time stayingstill.
Like yeah, we have likepermanent blinds that we've
built, but like I'll just be, Icould pace back and forth, like

(38:25):
it, we might not even be hungry.
I'm gonna turn the grill on,start making food or something.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
Yeah, but that's the cool thing about waterfowl is
like you can, you can get awaywith doing stuff like that, you
know, as long as you don't havebirds coming in.
Like you get away with all thatthings.
Like we do the same thing, butyou know you can't with.
With turkey hunting it isdefinitely a bit harder, um, you
know, but that's also why, uh,same thing, that's why I love to
, just, you know, run and gun.

(38:50):
I'm on my year two of turkeyhunting um, and I've only I've
hunted in the ground blind, zerotimes.
So for all my hunts have beenjust run and gun.
If it's not working, I'vecertainly go to a new spot, go
and constantly trying to findbirds.
And I mean so far, the last twoyears, I think, almost every

(39:11):
time where I've moved locationsI've, I'd say, 50 percent rate
of finding birds and everythinglike that.
Um, so, which is for me prettygood um to to begin with and
everything like that.
But you know, waterfowl hunting, that's the um, the whole, like
how much I love and why, afterthe grind of deer season, I'm

(39:32):
not doing that um, you know, andjust kind of saddle hunting,
going crazy, jumping betweentrees, running 10, 15, 20 trail
cameras from summer to fornovember, when you know when
goose season comes and you knowwhen, uh, you killed some more
ducks and everything like thatand that cold winter that you

(39:54):
know I love, there ain't nothinglike waterfowl hunting.
And when you can get up,stretch your legs, stretch your
arms, talk, smoke a cigar if youwant to, you know, cook food
like there ain't.
There ain't nothing better thanthat at that time of year.

Speaker 4 (40:09):
Yeah, or one blind we have.
Uh, went to Walmart.
We bought one of those likelittle miniature, like propane
ones, that you can put in like aplastic case, and I'm 99% sure
it's still sitting there, causeI doubt a bear is going to swim
all the way out there and eat upall that Taylor ham and burger
grease.
But it just to me it's like asocial thing.

(40:31):
You know, like how youmentioned, you can get up, you
can stretch, like we've huntedso many many different things,
like we've just tucked ourselvesinto the back of tree lines.
We've we've done a lot oflayout hunting, um, some
a-frames.
It just all depends on what kindof field you're hunting.
If you're hunting water, ifyou're hunting a river, pretty
much like in montana, like wejust kind of tucked up in banks,

(40:54):
you know it's different everytime and you, when you have
birds working a lot of timesgeese more than I don't know 80
of the time you're going to hearthem.
Whichever way you're going andhaving being in the flyway, like
a little highway traffic area,you're bound to see birds.
You know and you'll hear them.
It's just a matter of whenthey're, they're circling and

(41:17):
everything.
It's like having a steady dogis huge because some dogs could
like peep their head out, likelooking around.
Luckily, all the dogs we huntwith top tier, amazing.
But then there's always thatone person that has their face
like this through, like a layoutblind, or like peeking through
the the grass on the a-frame tosee where the birds are, you

(41:39):
know, because they want to likemaybe get first shot or
something and you wind upgetting seen, you know I think
the the big appeal to why so?

Speaker 1 (41:47):
and listen, I catch myself doing it too, but like I
make oh yeah, yeah, I still makesure, because it's so memorable
, mesmerizing, when the birdsjust get into that and they're
just moving and when you havehundreds or even like a thousand
birds just flying everywhere.
I think it's one of the I don'tknow deer hunting, just yeah,
it gets me going and like that,that to me is number one.

(42:10):
But waterfowl hunting, I meanthat right there is.
Just you don't get to see itoften.
If you know you see deer allthe time, you see the rut, you
see Chasing you, you know yousee Bears and everything like
that, but it's usually one ortwo or you know you're never
seeing a couple hundred.
And then when you hear the wingsflying by and you know, or it

(42:34):
literally, they're all justhonking and going crazy.
It is deafening.
Like it literally is deafeningwhere you now you start to shake
and that's where you finallyget like waterfowl doesn't get
my blood pumping to 160, likeyou know a big buck coming in,
but like you start to get thatlike, oh man, I can't wait, like

(42:56):
you're everything's deaf.
It's like you're in a, a war.
You're like in a war scene andthen when everyone starts
shooting, it's like you don'thear nothing, but just like what
is down here, you just see whatis down here, you just see
what's down your sights andeverything like that.
And then when they fall at thesky.

Speaker 4 (43:14):
That's like it.
That's another thing that'shonestly so cool to me as well.
Yeah, and like, like you said,like seeing and everything like
that's a totally different thing.
Like this past season webrought so many new people that
either a haven't waterfowlhunted at all before or like
have done it a little bit.
But just the reaction to somepeople, because there's a
difference between working liketwo wood ducks or like a couple
mallards, like as the sun comesup and they're starting to move

(43:35):
to water.
But like if you're in the rightspot and you have like two,
three hundred cans flying aboveyou, circling, coming into the
spread, it's, it gets my heartgoing.
So, like for him, with like agiant deer like I'll choose
personally like a 160 plus inchdeer versus a 10 man limit of

(43:56):
canadas or mallards or somethingI'm taking the birds because,
like for me, that just gets myheart absolutely through my
chest now, what makes you likeactually like, like, find like a
good, like duck or geese spot?

Speaker 2 (44:10):
because I always wondered that, like, how do you
even go about like, like,finding like a good spot to go?

Speaker 4 (44:17):
yeah.
So I mean the way I put this isbecause a lot of people think
like you go to water, there'sgoing to be birds or something.
Like you take waterfowlscouting as much as you should
do, like if you were to be aserious waterfowl hunter, you
need to do your scouting likeyou would your white tail and
your turkey, trying to find themroosting.

(44:37):
Like there's so many timeswhere it's during the season but
we won't even hunt.
That morning I'll wake up at 430, drive over to my friend
ben's house, me and him willdrive to a field and we'll just
sit there like either in theedge or in the truck and just
have the windows down and justlisten, because as the sun
starts to come up, that's whenall the birds start to move.

(44:57):
So like they roosted all night.
Whether they're roosting inwater or roosting in a field,
they're gonna be bound to behungry.
So it's kind of just findinglike those traffic areas, like
if you go to like big rivers,kind of like the little fingers
that kind of go off, or thewater standing still, any kind
of cornfields, stuff like that,like they had just hit it so
hard no, that's very interestingbecause, again, because, like

(45:23):
I've never hunted before, solike I don't have a clue, so
like I was even wondering likehow, um, like, how did you even
come about like wanting to likeduck hunt?

Speaker 2 (45:31):
like did you like, are you self-taught, like on the
calls, or like, did you watchyoutube videos?
Like, how did you even go aboutall that?

Speaker 4 (45:39):
I mean, the very first ever time we went duck
hunting was, uh, me and myfriend tommy um, we were trying,
we were filming.
Just like I don't like messingaround in a ladder stand it was
like one of those dual ones andthe whole time is like, as the
sun's going down, all the birdsnear the swamp where we were
hunting are coming back to roostfor the night, like they'll

(46:00):
roost there all night.
And we're hearing mallards flyby and we have like cannons
coming by and you just hear itall.
We're like we should just goback there one day and check it
out.
And this was years ago and weshould have looked at it on the
map a little bit better.
But as we started to walkthrough it, we're like it's
pretty close.
We were walking through like 15foot high phragmites that were

(46:24):
like you couldn't even youcouldn't even stick your finger
through, and we're both we'reboth carrying a spackle bucket
because we had no idea what wewere doing.
So we're just pushing a trailthrough these fragmites for like
what felt like 200 somethingyards and we finally get to the
water's edge and we didn'treally know much at all.
We just literally just sat thebucket on the edge there.

(46:45):
We just wanted to kind of seewhat would happen.
Granted, we kicked up birdsthat were already there.
Of course I missed you knowyou're like you're just so
excited it's your first time, uh, but that kind of just sparked
the interest to kind of justlook into it more, and then the
more success you have with it,it just continues to kind of
pile up all right, but likethey're interesting yeah, it's

(47:09):
like like trial by fire, likefinding new spots.
Like you're, you're never gonnaknow how much you enjoy it until
you just kind of go out thereand wing it like the calling.
When we got our first calls, ohmy god you, it sounded like I
don't know if you guys have kidsor something that would go to
like you'd go to like theirkindergarten music concert thing
and they're playing therecorder like playing hot cross

(47:32):
buns, like that's what wefucking sound like it was a
thing from duck goose,everything, but it just leave it
in your car and just likeyou're sitting in traffic,
you're going like watch youtubevideos like the midwest flyways,
guys, some of the best, some ofthe best duck and goose callers
, um, and you can learn a lotoff youtube, um, but really it's

(47:54):
just kind of tuning your calland playing around with it,
because some people can blowtheir call really well and you
go to play with it and theirreed setup completely different.
Yeah, and you you can't blowfor shit, because you got like
short barrel, long barrel.
You got goose flutes, singleread, double read, and they're
all going to take pressuredifferently.
So huh yeah, because I again, Idon't have a clue, but you know,

(48:20):
one day I'll get there if I hadmy goose calls around here, I'd
start doing a little bit.
But it's just, it's fun, yeahit's fun yeah, I'll be sitting
in traffic just playing it.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
Family members will yell at me yeah yeah that's the
one thing like it pisseseveryone off.
I'm around like once we like,and I leave mine in the truck
too.
I'm right now I'm not calling,really calling, or anything like
that just because turkey season, so I just got the mouth calls
in in the mouth and everythinglike that.
But once we get closer I'llstart all back up again.

(48:55):
And you know it is.
It is so much fun.
It's like it's like turkeybecause yet again, like goose
are gonna, they want to feel youknow you're, you're calling,
they're going to be calling,you're going to be calling
turkeys, you're going to becalling, they're going to be
calling elk.
You're going to call, they'regoing to go.

(49:15):
You don't get that with deer,you don't get that with bear,
like you just don't get I.
I there still is that maybe notwith, uh, with with waterfowl as
a much of that interaction backand forth and everything like
that.
You know the spread, figuringout the spread, even changing up
like something I found out thisyear and just cause yet again

(49:36):
that's another thing.
I've now been waterfowl huntingfor three, maybe four years now
is just how much in your huntIf something's not working, it
could be just simply as justchange your spread and just
maybe even move it Like, oh,this hole's not working.
This could be just simply asjust change your spread and just
maybe even move it like, oh,this hole's not working.
This, let's do something else.
You know what I mean.
Or let's, the season goes by,let's, let's not call it all,

(49:57):
let's just see how, how that'sgonna go.
They're so used to being shot atright now, just like turkeys,
right, you know it could work.
Where you don't call it all,you're just scratching the
ground.
You know, mixing up with withwaterfowl is just like mixing up
with with turkeys and andeverything like that.
It kind of goes.
They're both birds, obviously,it kind of goes hand in hand.
But I mean frank and anyone outthere like the one thing I

(50:21):
always tell people I learned thehard way my first ever hunt is
wasn't moving and all I did wasreposition this arm right here
and they flared.
And your movement is such a keybecause they have the advantage
of being up high.

Speaker 4 (50:39):
They have that automatic advantage with what's
sighting on any little movementthat that you make and it's it's
a lot of eyes in the sky, um,depending on how big the group
is, and sometimes, like we, werun a lot of dive bomb decoys,
um, whether and like we haveshells, we have the big foot
full bodies, um, but we could,sometimes you could get away

(51:00):
with maybe only two dozen, orsometimes we'll have more than
like 10 dozen out.
You know, and that very firstgroup of birds, whether it's a
single group of 10, 20, thatvery first group that'll either
come in or not.
You're gonna know exactly rightthen, and there at that moment,
you need to change something onthe spread, whether they're

(51:20):
landing way far over.
You need to open up the gap inthe middle.
The wind might be blowing,silhouettes or something maybe
falling over stuff like that,like there's constantly.
Just like you get out, you runand you just start moving stuff
well, I had no idea all thatwent into it.
But now that you guys say itlike makes sense, you know like

(51:41):
it's a lot of work in themorning because when you think
about it, like you go, you godeer hunting in your head.
You're like okay, I to wake upthis early.
I've got to be there at thispoint.
I've got to get to the tree andget set up in it For us, like
you've got to have the trailerhooked up in the morning, the
night before You've got to getto the spot.
You've got to carry all thesedecoys over to where you're

(52:02):
being at.
You've got to make sure you'rebrushed in, because every
everywhere you hunt the ground'sgoing to be a little different.
It could be a grass field, itcould be cornfield.
You're constantly changing it,so it could take like an hour or
more to get everything set upand it gets harder the colder it
gets, man when you're trying towhen you're no well, it's

(52:23):
because it's not even.

Speaker 1 (52:25):
It's when you're trying to get the decoys in the
ground like the shells, they'reeasy, but when you're trying
bring a little like a hammer orsomething like that, like it
makes a huge difference becausethe ground is so like some of
the hunts were single digitalweather this year, so or had
snow and everything.
One of our buddies, what hebrings to him, is obviously it's

(52:46):
easy.
He puts in the but, he brings asnowblower and he'll blow the
snow.
So it actually looks like theywere, they're feeding and
everything.
It's a lot easier to.
You know, frank, you know whenyou're going around you're
kicking up snow or make itdisturbing a little bit, cause
it looks like they're feedingand everything like that.
So instead of doing that littleextra work that takes a little

(53:06):
longer, he just real quick turnsthe blower on, blows it out and
then, boom, we're good andgoing, but winter.
Winter isn't hiding, having yourhide, because things are start
not, as you know, built in andyou don't have the grass, just
like deer hunting.
You know.
Look at what we do when we'rein the trees, for for winter,
once you climb that tree,everything's bare same thing.

(53:28):
You know that we're dealingwith.
So it's, there are similarities, but, like winter is a much
more difficult thing and ittakes even longer to get set up.

Speaker 4 (53:39):
My opinion in the winter versus obviously early
season yeah, the amount of decoylike silhouettes I've broken
this past year.
Um, it's just did you becauseyou're trying to hammer them in.
Eventually we got this likehandlebar thing with like two
nail spikes.
You basically just stomp itinto the ground, um, and at that
point you can at least get thethe little metal things in that

(54:01):
way.
But, like you mentioned, likeit if the snow, like you could
throw bed sheets over yourlayout line, like a lot of
layout lines have companies.
They have white snow covers forthem, so you can blend in
better.
Like, if you got frozen upwater.
We got an ice eater, so hookthat up to power or generator,
like the night before, and startturning the water up.

(54:22):
Make yourself a big hole.
There's just a lot of differentvariables to go into it.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
Wow, I actually had no idea.
All that went into it.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
Well you're don't worry, your first year you're,
you know, coming with us.
You're not gonna have to reallyworry about that, but after
that you know, then you like Iremember my I didn't, I just sat
there and just you know it was,it was nice.
Now it's like you're in afull-on sweat before you even
get your.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
Oh yeah, all right, Frank, you're.
You're the newbie, let's getmoving, yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:54):
You just got to retrieve the ducks, Frank.
That's the only thing.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
All right, I guess you're going for a swim buddy.

Speaker 4 (55:01):
That's where the dogs come in, before the dog.
The amount of times I couldtell you that I've fallen over
in my waders in the water, ohboy.
And like I have like my gun hasgone through the absolute shit.
Um, like I, I have to get itlike sonic strip cleaned and
everything, because, like it'sjust, sometimes I can't even get

(55:22):
the spring out.
Um, because, it gets it gets sobeat to shit.
But it's like saved my life acouple times because you you
fall over your waders filledwith water.
You, you need some kind ofleverage to get yourself up.
But having having dogs is sucha huge thing and luckily, like I
, help out a lot um with what Ican.
I'm not as knowledgeable by anymeans, cause I'm not personally

(55:44):
a trainer, but my friend Ben umwith rock and B gun dogs.
I'm always hanging a trainer.
But my friend Ben with Rockin'B-Gun Dogs I'm always hanging
out with him because he's he'spretty local to me.
But the dogs that he producesand he trains for not only
himself for his own program butclients dogs, it's just having
that confidence in a dog likethat, knowing that you can send
them on an 80-yard blindretrieve, lost like a bird goes

(56:08):
down in the tree somewhere orlike a fast water river.
You're confident that dog cango out there and stuff like that
.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
No, that's amazing.

Speaker 3 (56:20):
Dogs are incredible.
I'm a proud owner of fourbeagles that I use for rabbits,
used to.
I don't run them anymorebecause they're getting up in
age.
But all-field bred championbeagles that I've used for
rabbits, used to I don't, Idon't run them anymore because
getting up in age, but all fieldbread champion beagles, um, the
way they work for you, the waythat the un, you know,
undevotional love, they justthey'll do anything for you, man

(56:41):
.
And I was lucky because it'sjust in bread and I'm so good
that you know little things,like little things I would work
on them with.
But the light went on, man,when I started running them.
They just, it was just in theirblood and awesome, I mean just
freaking awesome.
You, you learn to appreciate,you know, and I never really

(57:02):
waterfowled hunt or anything.
But when I know, I know thecompanionship between dogs and
and your owner and you knowthat's the other reason too I
stopped running.
They're getting older I getworried, man, I don't want to
hurt my dogs, you know, andthey're pets, they're inside,
they're with us.
But a hunting dog next to yourbest friend, that's a good

(57:23):
hunting buddy man.
They're the best you.

Speaker 4 (57:25):
You can't beat a good dog, man, whether you're
running rabbits, whether you'rerunning freaking bear, you're
waterfowl hunting, you can'tbeat a good dog yeah, especially
like the relationship that likehe has with his dogs and like,
even just like from me beingover there, like how I feel
around some of them.
Like when we were in montana, uh, it was a big group of us, I

(57:46):
think we had like I I think wehad like seven or eight dogs
with us.
Obviously, you can't bring themall and we would do like upland
in the afternoon, waterfowl inthe morning, switch it up.
But when we all meet up at likethe one house or something,
it's just like every dog looksat you because they know what
they're about you guys are aboutto do, and they all give you
the same exact excited look andthey all give you the same exact

(58:06):
excited look and they just lookat you as, like today, my day,
and you have to figure out, like, what dogs are you going to
bring?
You know, and it's kind of likethat punch in the chest because
you want to bring them all butat the same time one.
It's a safety thing, because adog's safety is always the most
important, especially whenthey're out getting birds.
Absolutely, but if I could, I'dbring all the dogs, but you

(58:31):
know it's the end of the day,it's not realistic.

Speaker 3 (58:32):
Yeah, it was funny because like I would wear the
same clothes, insulated bibs orsomething, to go out ice fishing
and I'd throw them on and comedown the stairs and they're all
like, oh, we're going hunting.
And I'm like we're not goinghunting and I left the house and
my wife sends me a video ofthem going ape shit in the house
because they're ready to go,they're all amped up, they're

(58:55):
ready to run.
They're thinking I'm comingaround the other end of the
house by the sliding glass doorto load them up into the
Wolverine and go up into theback and start running rabbits.
She goes they won't stop,they're going freaking crazy.
It's been a half an houralready.
She goes they won't stop,they're going freaking crazy.
It's been a half an houralready.
I'm like I know, I know, andstill to this, still to this day
, certain stuff.
If I come down like my carheart bibs on or something like

(59:16):
that, because the briars arethick, you know, I used to wear
them up there they'll like.
So she'll start whining likeall right, I'm ready, dad.
And I'm like no, no, no, no, no, no, we're not doing that, you
know and where and where.
if I say, if I say I can't evensay it cause they're up here,
but if I say you know, huntingrabbit, they're like they're
ready, they're just, they justknow that stuff man.

Speaker 4 (59:39):
Yeah, it's like, even like training, like he does.
We do weekly training nights.
So like one night of the week,um on his property we do
advanced gun dogs and then onthe weekend one morning we do
like puppy classes.
But like, even with theadvanced puppies, it's just they
know when they're about to likethey see the bumper, the
launcher it takes up to 22blanks they'll go ape shit.

(01:00:00):
Like if you have dogs that haveto like, stay back so you can
focus on just a certain amountof dogs.
Like they hear it, they want tobe a part of it.
Like they, they just want to bewith you and like the amount of
fun that they have and theamount of joy that just brings
you and like everybody else, ohyeah, can't beat it yeah, that's
awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
But all right, travis , I got a few rapid questions
because I know, listen, you getsquatch talking about his dogs.
He'll be here all night.
We'll definitely have to getyou on for one of those episodes
, though 100% but yeah, I justgot a few rapid questions and
then we'll wrap it up and thenI'll definitely have you back on

(01:00:41):
and you know, hopefully by thenI'll be seasoned a little bit
on ducks, you know.
But we'll see what happens.

Speaker 4 (01:00:50):
We can always bring you out, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
All right.
No, I mean, I appreciate it.
I might have to take you up onthat one, All right.
So the first question I gotwould you rather forget your
ammo or your boots?

Speaker 4 (01:01:06):
Probably, probably I'd rather forget my ammo.
Ammo, because I have done thatand I've done um.
But like if you don't have agood pair of boots, or like,
granted, you forget your boots,you're screwed.

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
I'm taking your ammo every day oh man, I turkey
hunted this year without openingday without boots.
I had to take them off becauseI there, I didn't bring my good
boots, brought the ones Iusually use for water waterfowl.
And let me tell you thefreaking what's this?
On the back of my, my feetscabs and everything like that.

Speaker 4 (01:01:39):
I said hell no, took them off and I walked them my
what mile and a half, I think,without them yeah, I finally
switched up boots, though tolike a lace, like the crispy
boots, um, because I've had likea lot of rubbers and just this
past, like when there's like adeer season, and when I was out
for that bear, my buddy left hisrubber boots in the bed of my

(01:02:00):
truck for like months andthey're the same exact, uh,
optifit, like elevated the sickof camo, but mine were 800 gram
and his were like 800 and I waslike four or five o'clock in the
morning, I can't tell I put hison second, I got in the tree.
I I knew I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't feel my tuck,
because once your feet start tosweat and then you, yeah, yeah,

(01:02:22):
you're in trouble that's why Ifinally switched to lace boots,
because I can't do that feetsweat anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
No, no, I agree, all right.
The next question I got for youis um who's your dream hunting?

Speaker 4 (01:02:48):
or fishing partner.
It could be my dad, my, my daddoesn't hunt um and he's always
very curious and very supportive.
So to me I think I would pickhim to have him come out to have
him experience like how I takeit on, like my approach, just to

(01:03:10):
kind of see his reaction, seehis enjoyment, kind of stuff
like that.
Like I think, for me I'dprobably pick my dad.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
Yeah, no, no, absolutely All right Now.
The next question I got is nowis there ever been any gear that
you brought, that you boughtbut regretted?
Any deer?
No, any gear.
Any hunting or fishing gear Oof.

Speaker 4 (01:03:40):
Did I regret buying?
I mean, I've bought a lot ofstupid guns.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
I think we've all done that.
I don't know if you regret that, though.

Speaker 4 (01:03:52):
I have to shoot them.
I swear like the barrels arelike one of those bendy straws.
I think like I've spent way toomuch time just trying to find
like a pair of gloves and like,instead of doing the actual
research.
Like because if you're awaterfowl hunt and like your
hands are getting wet like Iwould burn through different

(01:04:14):
ones and either lose them orsomething.
But like I could, just Iwouldn't.
I wasn't smart enough about itI'd buy the worst pieces of junk
and, like you, can't feel yourfingers, no, oh yeah, forget
it's over.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
Yeah, uh, now do you have um, what's like your go-to
snack to bring in the woodsgo-to snack.

Speaker 4 (01:04:39):
Um, to be honest, if I'm waterfowl hunting, it's it's
probably like burgers andtaylor ham.
There you go.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
I'm being brutally honest, but yeah, yeah, frank,
you got to remember it'sdifferent because we don't have
to.
We could cook a full meal yeahin a waterfowl, blind or
whatever, versus deer huntingyou know you can't do that but
if I'm in the woods I'm going.

Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
Standard little debbie cake or an uncrustable oh
man, you can't go wrong withlittle w yep.
No, all right, listen, I mightcome waterfowl hunting, just to
come eat with you guys, allright.
So for my last question, whatdo you think is scarier a
charging bear or your wifecalling you mid-hunt?

Speaker 4 (01:05:24):
um, I'd probably say the charging bear, because I've
had that yeah it was kind oflike fake charge, but even like
a year or two ago, I don't evennecessarily think he knew I was
there, but he came by and he Iguess he got my scent from where
I walked in and he freaked outand of course the closest tree

(01:05:47):
for him to run up was the one Iwas standing in.
I didn't know if it was someshit going down my leg, but it
was something.
I'm going with the bear on thatone alright, fair enough,
alright.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
Well, yeah, they'll do it for my questions, but you
guys got anything else before wewrap it up?

Speaker 3 (01:06:06):
no, I think it was great.

Speaker 2 (01:06:07):
Travis, we appreciate you coming on and you guys got
anything else before we wrap itup.
No, no, I think it was great.
Hey Travis, we appreciate youcoming on and we'd love to have
you on again.
Man, I'm going to take you upon that hunt, though.

Speaker 4 (01:06:18):
Yeah, no, of course, once the season comes around I
mean in the next probably twomonths or so we're going to
start revamping some of ourpermanent blinds, just in case
any wood started to rot.
Stuff like that maybe movestuff around a little bit, but
uh, definitely keep you in theloop.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
No, absolutely man.
But hey, you know, I'll, I'll,I'll keep in touch.
I appreciate it again.
You've been an awesome guestman and, uh, you know, we look
forward to having you back onbro.

Speaker 4 (01:06:45):
Yeah, no, thank you guys so much for inviting me to
have me on here and kind ofshoot the shit.

Speaker 2 (01:06:51):
All right, we appreciate it Coming on Nice
meeting you All right, thank you.
All right, thank you guys.
So, everybody, we hope youenjoyed this amazing episode and
we'll see you guys next time.