The Hunt That Gives Back: Doe Patrol

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What happens when a passion for hunting meets the urgent needs of a community? Hear from Tim Boutsma of Doe Patrol, Michigan, as he recounts how his love for hunting transformed into a powerful community service during the COVID-19 pandemic. At a time when local organizations like the Boys and Girls Club were struggling to feed approximately 600 children weekly, Tim and his team began donating over 2,000 pounds of venison each year. Discover how this grassroots initiative fuels not just community bellies but also the spirit of giving back through hunting.

Embark on a journey through the challenges and triumphs of starting a deer processing program, especially at the pandemic's height. We uncover the cultural shift toward harvesting does and how it can improve hunting skills while fostering community engagement. From teaching the art of processing wild game to overcoming the industry's pandemic-related hurdles, Tim's story is a testament to the power of community action and the resilience needed to turn a simple idea into a successful outreach program. You’ll also hear about the expansion of these efforts into the Detroit metro area, offering more opportunities for hunters to contribute meaningfully.

Venture into the adventurous and often unpredictable world of hunting in regions like Michigan and New Jersey. Tim dives into topics ranging from the importance of wildlife conservation and hunting regulations to personal encounters with wildlife that are as thrilling as they are daunting. The conversation also explores the impacts of changing hunting regulations and the dreams and aspirations that drive hunters. Whether it's the allure of the perfect buck or the dream of a once-in-a-lifetime hunt, Tim shares insights and stories that reflect the shared passion and camaraderie of the hunting community.

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Episode Transcript

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just got tactical.
Welcome back to the gardenstate outdoor zone podcast

(01:01):
presented by boonex hunting.
I'm your host, mike nitro.
Let's get ready to dive intotoday's episode and, as always,
remember to chase the unknown.
Today we have Tim Boutsma fromDoe Patrol, mi.
Did I say it correct?
Yeah, yeah, you did it you gotit Perfect, perfect, thank you.
thank you so much for coming on,um.

(01:23):
You know, give the thelisteners out there a quick,
quick rundown.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, so my name is Tim Gutzma.
I'm with the doe patrol.
We're based in Michigan Um bigdeer hunter pretty much that's
what I do Most.
Most of them spend most of mytime doing um, starting to
tickle into doing some otherstuff with some friends.
But we as a as a company folkshave put meat in pantries, so we

(01:48):
donate a little bit over 2000pounds a year to local
organizations and really wefocus on building a community of
guys that want to spend some oftheir evenings when they're not
in the woods cutting up deer,which is pretty sweet.
So that's kind of like the 32nd.
Uh, yeah, I guess snippet ofwhat we do I, I kind of love

(02:10):
that.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
I want a real quick focus on that before we dive
into other things.
But so two thousand you saidtwo thousand pounds, yeah I
think it was about 20.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
It was like 2416 pounds or something like that
this past year, so we could havedone more, but I ran out of
freezer place space, so thatthat's always, that's always the
the one problem.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
But so when, when did that start?
Like where, where did you getthe idea from?
Or you know how'd that allbreak down?
And I think that's a reallyunique thing, that, uh, you know
we've been talking to the guyshere.
You know we, we kind of want tostart doing that, and I know
New Jersey has um hunt for thehungry or or something like that

(02:51):
.
So where did it all start foryou guys?

Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yeah, that, um, we started in 2020 during COVID.
Um, I was pretty involved withthe boys and girls club.
Uh, my wife and I spent a lotof time volunteering.
We love middle school, highschool kids, so youth group
mission trips, stuff like thatwe were.
We're always very involved inour community and our churches
and anyways, in 2020 I got acall from the, from the club,

(03:16):
after the shutdowns and they'relike hey, we feed about 600
miles a week every day and weare running out of food.
Uh, our local, our local schoolwas title one, meaning they
served breakfast and lunch.
So then there were 600 kidsthat were getting breakfast,
lunch and dinner five days aweek outside of their home, and

(03:38):
most of those kids were lucky toget one meal on the weekend, um
, in their own home.
Um, so, uh, it was in december,it was like december 1st or
something like that, or end ofnovember, beginning december, uh
, and late dough season wascoming up.
So I called a couple buddiesand was like, hey, you want to
go shoot some doughs and we canprocess them and donate the meat

(03:59):
and it'll be great, and thatwas pretty much how it started.
But then, within the next twoweeks, uh, it was just.
I talked to a couple ofdifferent people, who one was
running a nonprofit organization, for that's an outdoor based
organization.
He said there's no, there's no.
Dough competition Don'tbenefits, it's everything's

(04:22):
about antlers and and big bucks.
And he's like you need to blowthis thing up.
And then kept getting thesenudges and I kind of felt like
it was god telling me that Ineeded to do more and it wasn't
enough.
Uh.
So finally I went to my wife,said you need to design a logo
and we need to blow this thingup.
And so we had about two weeksand we had our first event in

(04:42):
2020.
And yeah, it was incredible how, uh, how it all ended up coming
to be in a very, very shortperiod of time.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
Now that's pretty cool to hear and you know a
great thing that you guys aredoing over there.
You know let's take it backbefore then.
You know where did the huntingall start?
Did you grow up in it?
Is this something you picked up?
And we know michigan is in thetop five for for hunters and
everything like that.
So where did it all start foryou?

Speaker 2 (05:14):
yeah, no, um, I guess , shot my first deer.
Uh, well, uh, I was probably 12.
Uh, yeah, because back then Ithink you had to be 12 to be
able to do the youth hunt andnow you can do the apprentice
program at any age.
So I think my four-year-oldmight be trying to get out with
a crossbow this year, but Ithink I was 12 years old.

(05:37):
My dad was always a big adventhunter.
He'd go out to Iowa, missouri,every single year.
Pheasant white tail, uh, shot myfirst.
It was a five point.
I still, I mean, I can rememberthat hunt like none other when
my dad.
It was incredible, but that wasthe first.
I was like first experiencehunting, um, youth hunt 12 years
old and I went every year fromthen on out, um, and we can.

(06:01):
The youth hunt went until wewere 16.
Back then I think I only shotone more buck during the youth
hunt.
Never shot we were 16 back then.
I think I only shot one morebuck during the youth hunt.
Never shot a doe.
My dad never was into shootingdoes.
I think he shot one doe in hisentire life and it was on a, his
first date with my mom actually.
Uh, and he hasn't shot a doesince what a date that's an
incredible date, I know I, yeahit's funny because I'm like the

(06:24):
doe guy, uh, and, and here's myold man, he just is not in for
it.
Um, but uh, yeah, so we, we, wedid a decent amount of hunting.
My dad ended up getting a farmdown in central Illinois, so we,
we do a lot down there.
I've got five or six propertiesaround the greater Grand Rapids
area that I manage and help getother people into hunting.

(06:49):
But my hunting really didn'tlike take off until college.
So I played college baseball andhad another knee surgery, felt
like God was telling me it'stime to be done trying to play
kids sports as an adult.
So I just full-time and startedhunting.
And that's where I was about 20, 20 years old when I started
hunting, like crazy I mean Iwould, I got into it and I got

(07:12):
the itch and I was like what wasI thinking?
Not hunting like I didn'tarchery hunt through high school
or anything like that.
Um, so really the last 10 yearsis has been my number one
passion, um, and I I just can'tget enough of it.
I think I shoot anywhere fromsix to 10 deer a year, depending
on the success of how many does, I can get down and other

(07:34):
hunters I can get out.
But we've spent a lot of timethe last well, yeah, 10, almost
12 years now in Illinoismanaging that farm.
So, yeah, I've just got the.
I got a passion for white tailsmanaging deer, or our deer herd
, our population, uh, michiganhas got a ridiculous amount of
does.
It's an unbelievable.

(07:55):
How many does we have?
Um, so I just, I just love it,man.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
No, I mean that that's that's absolutely
incredible and you know it's,it's the opportunity, it's the
being able to do it.
You know the does are it's soimportant.
You know, I always tell peoplelike you know, like we're
talking about before we startedrecording, like here we have so
many opportunity.
I mean you know we haveunlimited amount of does here.

(08:23):
There's this, this the doughnumber, the deer number, just in
general is is insane.
So you know, having a place likethat in Michigan where you have
the dough numbers, you knowit's you got people that just
want to shoot bucks, but thenyou got people that you know
love shooting does, and I thinkit's a.
I think people should alwaysshoot does.

(08:44):
I mean it just depends on yourdeer number and everything like
that, like we're you know, likeI just said, but you know it is
meat for the freezer, if you'reable to, to feed other people,
everything like that.
There's so much that good thatcomes out of it.
And same thing with with buckstoo.
I mean, do you guys donatebucks too as well, or is it just
strictly does?

Speaker 2 (09:03):
yeah, um, and we do.
We had, I think we did 126 deeris how many deer we processed
this year, um, and I want to sayin the ford there was about 40
bucks.
Oh, wow, um, so some of thoseare, you know, know, people's
personal deer, um, people whohave not learned to process deer

(09:26):
.
That's a big passion of mine isteaching people how to process
wild game um, taking care oftheir own meat.
Uh, you know the old Chineseproverb you teach a man a fish,
he eats for a lifetime, but hegave men a fish and just eats
for a day.
Um, it's the same same thingfor me, with me, with, with
whitetail, and most people wantto learn.

(09:46):
They just don't have the meansor have somebody willing to
teach them.
Um, but we, we, man, we havebeen so many bucks this past
year, and some studs too, whichwas sweet um, so we don't, we
don't turn away any deer.
Uh, the.
The emphasis on doe patrol isjust that.
It's just an encouragement toremind people like you, gotta,
you gotta take those.
And I think the baby boomerpatrol is just that.
It's just an encouragement toremind people like you, gotta,

(10:07):
you, gotta take those.
And I think the baby boomergeneration is not interested in
shooting does.
It was all about four corns andsix points and spikes and it
didn't matter.
It just needed bone on top ofits head and they were not
interested in shooting a doe.
It wasn't cool.
Uh, and we're we're trying tonormalize that a little bit more
, that it's cool to shoot does?
Um, it's a lot more.

(10:27):
It's a lot more fun when youget to shoot more things more
than one deer a year, you knowdifferent, different generation,
and you know it's I, I willagree with you on that for sure.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
You know it's it's hard because you go to these
other states and you know, stillyou can't hunt does, like like
you can where where we can, andeverything like that, where it's
like you think about hunting adoe and it's like, well, people
will look at like what's wrongwith you, like you know, why
don't you just go shoot a buck,and everything like that.
But it's, you know, coming fromfrom our background, where,

(10:58):
where we are like it's soencouraged to shoot does and um,
encouraged to shoot does and um, I think it's going to just
keep being this trend.
And you know, yeah, who wantsto shoot?
You know one deer a year, youknow, or maybe two a year,
depending on the state that youlive in.
When you know you can, you canshoot a couple more and you know
it's better.
You know practice it's going tohelp you in the long run when,

(11:21):
when push comes to shove, whenyou, when you do have that, uh,
shot at a big buck because themore you shoot, the better, the
better you are.
You know, the more you have thatin hunt practice or not even
practice, the, the, the real, itbeing real.
You know, I think it definitelybenefits.
I mean, shit, I've shot waymore does I've shot than I've

(11:43):
shot bucks.
It's not even close.
You know, um but um for for youguys, you know, you, you go
into that first year, you knowso, 2020 it's the beginning of
covid.
I, I would imagine, right, yeah, beginning of covid.
You know so you're starting allthese brand new things and

(12:03):
ideas, but also battling withwith the pandemic and things
like that.
What was the most challengingthing for you guys to start out
during that time period?

Speaker 2 (12:18):
I think that there's two aspects to that.
Two aspects of that.

(12:47):
One we were really blessed thatmost people in the outdoor
industry have a similar askperspective, mandates and keep
your distance and all that stuffright.
So, um, we're super fortunatethat we had, you know, 10 people
that wanted to come and processto you, um, and that, yeah, we
were super blessed that thatworked out the way that it did,
because if we were in any other,any other area, uh, hobby, you

(13:11):
know, I don't know, but likeit's, the hunting industry as a
whole is just everybody's verysimilar, um, so you get outside
of that and you may not have hadthe as successful of a
launching of the business,especially when we started in
2020.
But our biggest hurdle to answeryour question sorry, I kind of

(13:32):
went around the bush there butour biggest hurdle it was really
transitioning from.
Are we just going to be a bunchof buddies that shoot three to
four deer to trying to get theword out to our community in an
hour hour and a half two hourcircle and grow it?

(13:54):
Um, and not knowing how to doit.
Uh, I'm in business, so I I'mfrom a management side of things
.
I manage people for a living,but I I didn't know how to reach
other hunters that that have noidea how to figure out who we
are, what we do, where we'relocated, and so that was our

(14:15):
biggest hurdle the going from itjust being seven of my friends
five of my friends to all TomDick and harry showing up
donating deer.
Um, so we can benefit morepeople than just the handful of
people at the club yeah and thenI imagine.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
It just it just kind of took off after that,
obviously, you know.
So you get through that hurdle.
You know, did this idea come inthe summer, like when exactly
did it come?
And then when was your firstactual like hunting season doing
this?
And the process with that likeor was this did, was this on the

(14:58):
you know, on the whim, rightduring hunting season every so
you kind of had to balanceeverything at at one time, or
did you have some time to tofigure it out?

Speaker 2 (15:07):
No, I mean, year one was a shit show.
Um, it was literally, I think Isaid earlier, it was big end of
the end of November tobeginning of December and our
late no season was December 12th.
Like we, we had less than twoweeks to plan it, um weeks to

(15:29):
plan it.
Um, and we ended up having, uhraffles about 40 people show up
to my barn, we gave away a gun,we had free food that was
donated.
Um, I had to get in touch witha local processor because we
weren't set up to process deer,but I think that year we took in
12 deer.
Um, in two weeks we ended upthrowing a full-on event.
It had people speaking that dida shop placement seminar, that

(15:52):
were dog trackers.
Um, it was just, it was crazy.
I don't even know how I workedmy actual job in those two weeks
because of everything that wehad to do to throw together an
actual.
I mean it was like a smallbanquet, essentially right.
If you've ever been to like ansci banquet before, that's
pretty much what we did, at avery small scale in two weeks so

(16:16):
we hold our own um game dinner.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
We did it for the first time last year.
I had time to prep for it, so Imean it, but it was still very
like nerve-wracking and juststressful just setting setting
up and getting everything.
And that was within a a decenttime period and we're going to
be doing, you know, every a newone every year.
So we got into doing events andstuff like that.
But so I kind of yeah, I kindof understand how, what, what

(16:42):
you're feeling and everythinglike that.
Um, so so you had two weeks yousaid you know, the first year
was was a shit show.
After you completed you knowthat late dough season, what was
the next step for you guys?
Where did the planning go?
Now, you had a whole off seasonand everything like that to get
things under, you know, orderor whatever you want to call it.

(17:03):
So where did it really go from?
From?

Speaker 2 (17:06):
there.
That was a.
That was a challenging thing.
There was a.
I spent a lot of time wrestlingwith it the following year
because I didn't know.
I didn't know if it was justlike a one and done.
You know what?
We?
We helped people in ourcommunity.
It went well.
We're super blessed.
We also raised a whole bunch ofmoney so we were able to give
the boys and girls club I thinkwe raised like $3,000, um for

(17:27):
the club that year Um, so thatwent to buying meat for their
pantry on top of the 12 deerthat we had processed to go to
their pantry.
Um, and I, I don't.
I really wrestled with it.
I was like, should it, should Icontinue to do this?
It was a ton of work and to doone even better, I don't want to
.
I didn't want to half-assanother year where I came into

(17:51):
it with only two weeks to planUm.
I spent a lot of time justpraying, reflecting, talking to
my wife, other people.
I had other people telling melike, what are you like?
What do you actually think?
Is this feasible, to continueto do it?
And I didn't know.
I didn't know the answer.
I thought it was because I wasable to do it in two weeks.
So, my man, if I, if I've got,you know, a full year to plan

(18:13):
this thing, that'd be amazing.
And you know, a lot of peoplewere giving me feedback from the
standpoint of hey, it was superclose to Christmas, we wanted
to come, but we had Christmasparties or we were on vacation,
or we had our own deer camp upnorth that we go to with our
cousins that time of year to goshoot does at our family farm,
and so there's all these thingsthat I was trying to weigh out

(18:34):
and I'm like what, how can Imake this better?
And, anyways, it just came downto like I, I felt the nudge, I
felt God telling me like youneed to, you need to keep doing
this.
Uh, this is, this was so great,it blessed so many people.
We had people reaching out.
I had people reaching out fromall over the state that had just
heard word of mouth what wewere doing.

(18:54):
Um and uh, you know, I've we'vebeen brought up on podcasts of
people that I've I don't evenknow before.
Um, before that I just listenedto.
So it was good, that was stufflike that.
Happening was like a testamentof like okay, you're doing.
You're doing what needs to bedone.
You know we have organizationsin the state of Michigan, just

(19:15):
like you guys do in Jersey, thatthat donate me.
You know Michigan OutdoorsmenAgainst Hunger, and it's for
some reason that the nonprofitworld's never run well, which is
which is why we're not anonprofit.
We just put everything backinto the business every year,
cause I I I'm on a few nonprofitboards and I I can't stand the

(19:35):
way that nonprofits operate.
So that was another thing thatI sat and contemplated.
That entire like year.
Everyone's like well, how do wedonate?
Donate like we want to write itoff and and in my mind I'm like
dude, you gave a hundred bucks.
Like you, you're really gonnatry to write off a hundred bucks
.
You realize you need to donatelike eighteen thousand dollars

(19:56):
to really even make a differencefrom a tax standpoint.
Uh, you should maybe talk toyour accountant.
Uh, because I got a feelingyou're probably not donating 18
grand right now definitely notright and there's so many
different facets of it that I'mlike what, how do we make this
successful?
What do we do?
How do we get people involved?
And how do we get people whoare my parents age, who own

(20:17):
businesses are and are a littlebit more financially stable in
life, that it's all going to gettaken care of?
And after, after year two,people started like coming to me

(20:40):
and saying dude, uh, we thoughtthis was going to be a one and
done.
Now, year two was even bigger.
We doubled in size.
We ended up donating twice asmuch meat as we did the first
year.
And just the the amount ofpeople that like, we want like
would just say you know, we wantto get involved.

(21:00):
How do we get involved?
And I'm like, I honestly Idon't, I don't even really know
how you get involved because itit's kind of just a thing I do
with my wife and uh.
So that in year two is when wewe started processing a few deer
.
Um, and that's what the thedecision going from year one to
year two was I we need to takein deer, process deer and do our

(21:24):
event.
So we, we took in a few deerthat year.
I had to hone my skills,because I was self-taught from a
processing standpoint.
Um, I'm I can't really be likejust running a knife, whittling
these frigging eyes down and notknow what I'm doing so spent
freaking hours and hourswatching processing videos.
Some people where you're like,holy crap, why are you posting

(21:46):
this on YouTube?
You, you, barely you, youshould barely have a knife in
your hand, let alone be postingto try to teach other people, um
, and at that point I didn'teven know anything.
So, um, but yeah, I mean, I, uh, again, I kind of feel like I'm
doing a big circle around what,what really transpired.
But every, every year, we've,we've, we've grown, we've

(22:08):
developed, we've honed what ourspecialties are.
Every year, we, we partner withlocal charities and non-profits
that can, we can benefit duringour event.
But the the last, so first twoyears, was pretty much just our
event taking deer.
We started processing a fewdeer, I started working on my
own skills to be able to process, um, and then, year three, we

(22:34):
processed a ton of deer in thebarn and it, my wife, started
making a meal for everybody.
And that's when we realizedlike we needed the community.
We needed to build a communityof people.
Um, and the hunters hunterswere yearning for it, if that
makes sense.
Like people wanted that senseof community, they wanted a
place to volunteer, they wantedto be able to give back and they

(22:58):
wanted a reason to shoot moredeer um, I think that was a huge
part.
Uh, when we started processingall the deer in our in our barn,
it was like, oh my gosh, we,I've got a reason.
Now I could go shoot seven deerum and not not have to stress
about it or wonder where to gowith the deer.

(23:18):
Find a processor that's part ofthe michigan outdoors when he
gets hunger.
Um, and a lot of thoseprocessors even then will will
deny deer during our gun seasonbecause they're too busy anyways
, and it's not like processorsmake that much money um, during
deer season.
I mean, that's the downside.
If they got 200 a deer and they, they do, all right, but they

(23:41):
don't.
So it's.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
It's also like you know, yeah, I agree, like you,
you shoot for what your, yourfreezer can, can fill, or how
much your, your family's goingto eat or wherever.
That's always been my thing.
Like people like, oh well, why,why'd you pass?
Like I remember I've, I've shotdoes before and you know I'm
waiting for that buck andeverything like that and I'll
have does, come out and likeI'll have buddies.
But like you know, this wasyears ago be like, hey, why

(24:06):
didn't you shoot that down?
Well, it's really just meeating it.
Like you know, I don't need twoto three, three deer, you know,
I just need one dough.
And if I get that buck I'llhave, I'll have some extra meat
and everything like that.
But at what point?
You, you can't eat all thismeat, especially when you're
also hunting other animals.
So if you're hunting hogs oryou're fishing or, or waterfowl,

(24:30):
or bear or whatever, that's alot of meat to get in the
freezer.
So sometimes it's like allright, well, I'm gonna pass
certain deer, because you know,at the end of the day I've
already got my, my freezersalready full, you know, and and
this gives you, like you said,it gives hunters a whole other
excuse to hey, you know what,now I get to shoot that deer,

(24:50):
it's gonna go to somebody who,who's really gonna need it and
you, and you know it gives umthe brotherhood.
I think you know, like thecommunity that that you're
talking about, like I agree,like hunting is such a great
community, you know, and it'sonce you find that group it
makes you know things even evenbetter.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yeah, and we honestly that that's been one of the
coolest experiences growing thisand building this is people
like stopping me walking inmeyer and it being some dude's
mom um, who's been in the dude'sbeen in my barn processing deer
and the mom stops me and is islike, hey, my son's volunteered

(25:33):
for doe patrol, helped cut updeer and he's just talked so
highly about it.
How gratefully is to be a partof it.
And I tell all my friends whatyou guys are doing and I think
it's incredible, like likegetting those people that say
that kind of stuff.
It's like, oh my gosh, likewhat we're doing is is spreading
beyond even just the meatthat's going into the pantries.

(25:55):
Matthew's House Ministries wasour beneficiary this year out of
Grand Rapids, and we donatedover 2,000 pounds of meat to
them, which resulted in 11,000meals.
So when we ran the numbers forthem and how many pounds of meat
they use to produce each mealand they cook 80 meals a day, or

(26:15):
80 plates a day is how manypeople they feed we were able to
supply them with nine months offood and 11,000 plates will be
served.
And that's just incredible tome.
And then when all of a sudden,someone's mom's like I'm so
proud of my boys and they maynot go and volunteer at the Boys
and Girls Club, but this is agood place for them to to give

(26:36):
back, uh, and and to be involvedin something that's that's
bigger than themselves and italso makes you feel good.
Um, I mean it.
It's a grind when you'reprocessing deer two nights a
week until 10 pm at night andyou're doing five hours of
processing twice a week andsacrificing time from family,
friends, obligations, your owntime in the woods, and when, all

(26:59):
of a sudden, you start seeingthose numbers and realizing the
amount of people and lives thatwe're changing, it makes it so
much, it makes you feel so bad.
When you're like in a badmental headspace about it if
that makes sense Like you feelguilty.
When you're like, oh, I don'twant to process here tonight.
It's like hold on, we'reblessed enough that we can do

(27:20):
that and what we got to do issacrifice, you know, a few
nights for two and a half months.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
Like golly, that's a first world problem right there,
you know so right yeah it's,it's it makes you appreciate the
things that you know, that thatwe have and everything like
that.
Because you know, like, likeyou said, it's, it's a first
world problem.
You know, I, I work um childpsych with, with children and
everything like that andcommunities that are, you know,

(27:51):
not privileged.
You know so I, I hear it allthe time.
I'm like listen, like you know,things get worse, things get
worse.
Look at, you should see whatwhat other people have and and
things like that.
But you know one one thing Iwant to cause.
I, you know I have it pulled up.
One of the first posts Iactually saw of yours um was

(28:13):
when you guys had the co?
Um drop off that, that, uh,that dough, you guys completely
broke it down.
Is that something?
Does that, does that happen?
Often now, the you know, withthe more outreach and everything
like that, some of these, theseprograms, maybe like a freshly
roadkill or maybe a poached deerthat they've confiscated, is

(28:33):
that something that is is hasbeen happening a little more
often.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
Um, I think we've done two.
Uh, I actually try to veer awayfrom roadkill.
Uh, carter is the CEO.
He's, he's awesome.
We uh I've gotten breakfastwith him before and, uh, we try
to stay in touch, um and whatnot.
But, um, the that was a.
That was a fun experience totake a deer from a conservation

(28:59):
officer and break it down andthen give it to people that need
it.
Um, uh, and you know he gave mea call.
He's like I think pretty muchthe front quarter is shot, but
the rest of it seems to be okay.
And in the next year that hebrought me was stuck in a fence
that he had to.
He had his front leg stuck inbarbed wire, uh, and he had to

(29:21):
put it down, uh, and the wholefront quarter that was stuck in
the fence just had all traumaall over it.
I mean it.
It was so bad deer wasstruggling for who knows how
long.
But we're trying to do a littlebit more of that.
Um, the, the downside toroadkill and stuff like that is
the meats.
Meat can be so just blown up,um, and I mean it's one thing to

(29:46):
like make some country friedsteak after you've already
processed the meat, but youdon't want country fried steak
after you've already processedthe meat but you don't want
country fried steak before itcomes off the animal.
Yeah, because it's allbloodshot and yeah, it's just
it's gross, uh.
So the the meat's been, it'sgot a bunch of trauma right.

(30:11):
The stress on the deer that thedeer has when they, when the
deer, dies from that trauma,just it makes it tough to eat
and I, I, if I don't want to eatit, I don't want to give it to
somebody else who is eating itfor free, you know, but that was
, yeah, we're we're trying to doa little bit more of that is
just cautious of how blown up adeer is.

Speaker 1 (30:30):
So yeah, that make no that.
That that definitely makessense.
So you know, going going intothis year, you know let's
personally for for hunting.
You know we're right around thecorner.
Uh, by the time this episodedrops, um, you know we'll be
already in season and everythinglike that.
So you know, what does it looklike from, what do the seasons

(30:51):
look like in michigan, when doyou guys start, and things like
that.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
Yeah, so we have an early, we have a youth hunt in
September and then the weekendfollowing is early antlerless.
And this year they passed forit to be a public and private
because in years past it wasonly a private land thing, so
you had to have private accessto do the early antlerless.
So that'd be huge.
I'm really looking forward tothat.

(31:16):
I think that'll be beneficialfor our entire state.
Um, we are hoping, not thisyear but probably the following
year, to do an early antlerlessum event.
Um, it, yeah, there are events,are events, just a riot.
And I think early doing oneearly antlerless would push more

(31:38):
people to get out, because alot of people don't want to.
It's buggy, it can be hot, uh,you don't have a place to go
with the deer.
But if you know you're going todonate it to a good cause.
We'd like to do that.
But our season technically opensoctober 1st, um for archery
season, and then that runs untilnovember 15, which is shotgun
season.
In our area we don't have arifle zone until north of the
middle of the lower peninsula.

(31:59):
Um, and then, uh, that runs tothe end of november, december
1st, and then, like two dayslater, opens muzzleloader, which
in our zone you can use any gun, not just a muzzleloader.
So I don't know why they don'tjust call it second shotgun.
So that runs for another weekor 10 days and then two days

(32:20):
after that opens the first lateantlerless season, which runs
till January 1st.
And then this year we have anew late antlerless season which
is January 1st to January 15.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
And that you can buy $5 doe tags so we can use a gun
from november 15 to january 15this year and I I imagine that's
definitely by far your your thebusiest time of the year,
because you know it's same thinghere.
Like you get bow hunters andyou know, listen, we there's a
lot of bow hunters in the stateand everything like that.

(32:53):
But you know, when gun season,that's like everyone comes out
the woodworks and you know, Iwant to say, you know it's
really that older generation too, you know it's, it's all those
guys that have.
You know they grew up huntingtheir their whole entire lives
and now they, they may not havethe time or wherever the case is

(33:13):
, but they mark off or at leastus, they, you mark off that
calendar right when, uh, the gunseason starts off and you know,
you, you get the biggest waveof of hunting during during that
time.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
I would, I would definitely say, oh yeah, the
orange army comes flying out ofthe woodworks, right.
So we're uh, we're excited tosee what happens with um.
With this upcoming season weactually are launching uh doe
patrol east michigan um, sowe're going to be throwing our

(33:44):
the east side of our statearound the detroit metro area
has got their season goes untiljanuary 31st um.
The urban suburban district umin grand rapids and which is
Kent County also just gotexpanded into that.
So if you have property inthose County there's three
counties on the East side andone County might be four
counties actually on the Eastside I'd had to double check

(34:06):
anyways and in the one Countyright in grand Rapids that you
can hunt until January 31st umwith uh archery equipmentery
equipment, uh.
So we're going to be throwing anevent on the east side of the
state this year with a couple ofmy friends over there that are
kind of head-stoting that and um.
We can't be more excited to beable to help the that suburban
area and the suburban hunters totry to push them late season to

(34:29):
shoot more does.
So we don't have a datesolidified yet, um, but it's
actually kind of the first timeI've publicly said that um, so
we're stoked, we're excited, uh,to see some expansion and um
being able to benefit an areathat has such a high population
of deer.
Um, so it'll be.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
It'll be a riot to be over there in january as well
yeah, no, that that's good andyou know the expansion is always
good and you know how.
You know for for someone like Iyou hear a lot I've been there
for hockey and stuff like that,but never for for hunting or
anything like that.
So like, how big is your?
Is your state Like you know sofrom where you guys are to to

(35:10):
the Eastern part, like how longhas that taken?
You know you count that as the.
You know you got the up upthere and everything like that.
So like, break down kind of theyou know the state of michigan
for those who don't understand,you know the difference from
where you guys are to to theeast.
And then would you guys everthink about doing something up
in the up?

(35:30):
I know it's definitely tougherhunting and stuff like that, but
you know kind of break downwhat that would look like as
well if you could.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
Yeah, no, absolutely so to.
I have family over in the Eastside, so with some I've spent a
decent amount of time there as achild, growing up and heading
over to the East side.
But from so where I'm at inHolland, which is 30 minutes
West of Grand Rapids, um, it'sabout two and a half hours to
the Detroit area.
Three hours if you're trying tocross to Canada is pretty much

(35:59):
the distance east to west acrossthe entire state, and from us
to get to the bridge, theMackinac Island Bridge, to go to
the UP is about three and ahalf.
But if you're going to comefrom the southernmost part of
the state you're going to getabout five hours.

(36:20):
From the Indiana-Ohio borderall the way to the bridge would
be about a five-hour drive, soit's five hours to run the whole
.
I mean they call it the mitten,right.
But then to get to the west endof the UP from where we are
seven and a half hours, so it'san absolute hike.
I mean there's no good way toget to the West end of the UP.
I mean you're looking to gointo North Northeastern

(36:41):
Wisconsin.
At that point, um, you can godown and around Chicago, but no
one likes driving throughChicago, so we avoid that.
You'd rather take the prettydrive anyways, um.
So, yes, we would definitely dosomething in the up at some
point.
Um, the up is dealing with alot of other different issues
with hunting and, uh, the wolfpopulation is through the roof

(37:02):
up there right now.
Uh, so we got a lot of problemswith that, but we actually have
some pretty good bear huntingin the up as well.
Um.
So, yeah, I think that that thegoal is for us to hopefully see
that the East side of the stategoes well, um, and if that goes
well, we'd like to launchsomething in like more central

(37:23):
North central Michigan, um, sosomething would call it near
like Cadillac area.
Um, so that way we kind of havethe, the lower peninsula
covered, um, where people coulddrive anywhere.
Cause our last anywhere,because our last year, in our
last year event, we had someonecome from the east side of the
state and he's actually the onethat is is kind of headstoning
and and working with us to toget a good location and other

(37:45):
partnerships with the their proshops over on the east side,
because I don't have connectionsinto that area, um, so as long
as this goes smoothly.
I'd like to keep rolling intomore, uh, more locations
throughout the state.
Eventually, up would beincredible.
Uh, people up there used todrive in a long ways anyways,
cause you're kind of desolate.

(38:07):
Uh, you know, city to city isor village to village,
realistically, you know, it'susually a couple hours, hour and
a half to two hours.
The up is gorgeous.
I mean, we got, we goteverything up there, so we got
elk in the lower peninsula too,but it's almost impossible to
get a tag yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
No, and this is like one of the reasons why, like,
michigan is so like such asought after state and everyone
just hunts.
Because you guys, like you know, like I said, I I drove there
for for hockey and everything,but it wasn't looking into.
You know, at that time therewas no like and my family hunted
, but not not like it is now andall this research and stuff

(38:51):
like that.
But you know, you look atMichiganigan and they're, you
know they're constantly going tobe in the top five.
But you guys have such a hugevariety of you know of hunting
and different.
You know the backgrounds andthe animals and you know you
you're talking about how there'sthere's wolves, you know, are
up in the the up and everythinglike that, and even elk you guys

(39:12):
have, you know, in the lowerpart, but it's so much land and
you just wouldn't think of it asan outside, as an outside
hunter, like you know.
I've I've never been there forhunting and you know it's.
It's something now that wouldlove to probably do it at some
point.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
Oh for sure, I sure.
I mean I think we have thehighest, uh, moose density as
well on Isle Royal.
Really.
Oh yeah, I think it's thehighest population density per
acre, um, in the entire UnitedStates.
Uh, it's incredible.
Isle Royal is absolutelygorgeous.
It's actually a national park.

(39:53):
It's an island in the north ofthe UP.
It's my dream to go theresomeday.
I have not done it yet, but Ijust want to go to see the moose
.
Friends of mine went and foundjet antlers of moose from five
years ago.
They're green and all worn down.
Michigan's a fascinating state,uh, I mean, we got more lakes

(40:18):
than we know what to do with andthe great lakes and salmon
fishing's incredible here andhealth bear, bobcat, moose, wolf
, wolf.
There's no wolf hunting yet but, lord willing, the democrats
let us at some point.
So, yeah, it's.
Uh, it is a fascinating stateand it's really.
I think it's kind ofunderlooked because of the lack

(40:42):
there of quality deer, probablybecause most hunters look at
white tail in the midwest.
Yeah, um, and the deer huntingmost people think is kind of a
joke in michigan.
But you know, we, the holygrail, or the, the deer belt in
southern michigan, people arepulling 150 to 180 inch deer out

(41:05):
of every single year, um, righton the indiana ohio border.
I mean, the hunting down thereis incredible, um, and even
around us there's peopleshooting good bucks.
Some kid shot a 220 inch deerliterally right five miles from
where I'm sitting right now.
Uh, so the hunting's getting alot better.
Our just our regulations justsuck.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
So yeah, yeah no, I feel you on that same with ours,
yeah it's.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
It is what it is and that's partially why we want to
do.
What we're doing is to build acommunity.
It's like you don't have to.
To me, I I argue with everybodyalways just kind of bitches and
moans about the dnr, the nrc,you know that our government
post and their regulations, andto me it's like, why?
Why are we, as hunters I meanit's a small, small group of

(41:55):
people considering for the hobbyor lifestyle that we have,
right, I mean it's it's a verysmall group considering, like,
looking at how many boaters areout there or fishermen are out
there or any other hobbies,right, but why?
Why are we so worried about thegovernment doing things?
Why don't we just take care ofit on our own?
I mean we, we've been theconservationists for hundreds of

(42:17):
years.
So why do we?
Why do we complain when, like,in my mind it's like, take the
matters into our own hand, wecan take care of it ourself.
Um, and just like when peoplecomplain, like, well, if I don't
shoot it, my neighbor's goingto it's.
It's like, come on, it startswith you, dude.
So yeah, that's the wholeaspect of the community is to

(42:38):
build, build on making does cool.
I mean I, I want to.
I had to make a shirt that saysmake killing does cool again or
great again.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
Yes, yes, we will definitely, we'll definitely
rock that here in Jersey, sinceyou know we're all about killing
does down here.
You know, um, like I said, alimited amount of does.
Like you, you can't get doehunting it, jersey is doe
hunting and it's the same thing.
Like we're not a known state,you know.
But we have big deer.

(43:05):
Michigan has big.
Yes, you know what you can'tcompare the midwest with, with
what we're doing, right, no,they have.
They have the, the quantity ofbig deer.
You know, that's just thedifference.
We have the just quality ofdeer and then you have I I call

(43:27):
the sprinkled in the, the bigbucks.
Like, you have to work forthose big bucks, you have to go
to where those big bucks are.
Listen, I, I I've seen them,you know.
I, I know people that have shotthem.
They're here, you know, but wedon't get the attention, which I
don't personally mind notgetting the attention.
You know of jersey just beingand we're not even a sleeper

(43:50):
state, you know, um, I thinkreal tree just just put out
their, their sleeper states, andyou know, of course, jersey's
not on it, which, whatever, Idon't mind that, you know, but
it's we do have so much offerMichigan has, so I don't even
know everything that you guyshad to offer till now.
You know, and it's, it'sincredible.
And then once, eventually,hopefully, when it can pass, or

(44:13):
you know, you get the wolfhunting which is which is needed
, because I know you guys are byWisconsin.
You know Minnesota is not toofar, canada is literally right
there.
Where you do have these biggerwolf populations, it only makes
sense to be in in Michigan.
You know I talked to we justreleased episode not too long

(44:33):
ago with um, with quentin fromfull draw pursuits, and he was
stalked by a, by a wolf on hison his deer hunt when he was
walking to to the stand.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
So instead of we have mountain, we have mountain lion
too, which is crazy.
The dnr just don't want peopleto think that they're actually
here.
Uh, yeah, I've seen one huntingfirsthand and it really made my
.
It made my sphincter pucker manit was.
Oh, that was a scariestexperience of my life.
From about 100 yards away fromthe tree stand, he crossed the

(45:04):
road and just let out that.
I'm like, oh my gosh I gottawalk back in the dark, right, I
got, it was crazy.
You see a three foot long tailand I'm like what the heck is
that right at last light?
So, and that was in big rapids,which is an hour and a half
north of me.
So you're talking center of thestate, it all.
Right, it's crazy.

(45:25):
They're, they're here and ourdnr does not want to want, uh,
people to know that I I haven'ttalked about this yet because I
completely forgot.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
It happened during turkey season, but it's
something I I gotta starttalking about again.
Um, but I will.
Day before um, turkey seasonwent up with scouting and I was
walking, you know, I was up bythe delaware water gap area, so
it's big mountains, it's, youknow, remote, for for you know
remote and I'll tell you I so Idon't know what it was, but it

(46:00):
was not a bobcat and it lookedmore like a mountain lion to me.
It had a long, like that longtail and everything like that.
Yeah, and I've heard reports.
You know, I know a couplebuddies that have seen, seen
them in jersey.
You know, you hear the reportsthat you know.
I know a couple buddies thathave seen, seen them in jersey.
You know, you hear the reportsthat you know.
I've talked to people.
They're in pa.
I 100 know that there is atleast one up in that area of new

(46:26):
jersey, of the border of pa,and it just, it just makes sense
.
They travel.
You know, I'm not saying wedon't mind.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
I'm not saying we have a.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
Living population.
We don't have a Living, but wehave Cats coming through.
I Imagine looking for, forterritory and things like that.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
Yeah it, it's a.
We had one shot, I think, lastyear or two years ago in the
lower, like really far south,because I think, if I remember
correctly, if there's no seasonfor them, it's invasive.

(47:08):
So you can technically shootthem.
If I remember correctly I meandon't quote me on that, but
because I don't want to goshooting something that you've
never seen in your state before.
But I'm almost positive somedude shot one in the lower.
I'm trying to pull it up rightnow but I'm having a hard time

(47:29):
finding it, but I remember thepicture was going around like
crazy um, oh, dude, it was whyit was huge.
It's a big cat.
But yeah, there, yeah, and wegot.
We have bears too, all over theplace.
There was one in in our, myhometown, the other a couple
years back and no one knows whathappened to it.
My guess guess is the DNR camein and tranquilized it and

(47:52):
relocated it.
But we have tons of bears inour state.
Our bear population in thelower is getting unbelievable.
We should have like.
It takes like 10 years now toget a tag and we need to
increase our bear tags and Ilove bear hunting.
I shot my first bear last yearin Northern Ontario and I got
the itch.

(48:12):
I won't be able to stop nowgive me one second my camera
unplugged.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
Oh, you're good, yeah , um, yeah, I mean I love bear
hunting too as well.
So you know, here you fit inright, right there with us
because you know we're all aboutbear hunting and everything
like that good eating, uh, love,love, having them.
I got some still in the freezerthere.
I got my bear behind me andeverything like that.
But you know it's, I hope itworks out for you know, for you

(48:41):
guys, and everything like that.
I hope they, they do somechange some things up for you
guys.
I mean, I feel like everyone,everyone wants that.
I and I like how.
I wanted to touch on it, but Iforgot.
You said you know a lot ofpeople complain about the DNR
and all these things.
At the end of the day, like,that's why it's healthy.

(49:02):
Rules are rules.
It's never going to be perfect.
We are never going to be 100%satisfied with, you know, fish
and wildlife and everything likethat, with all the rules that
that are out there, you know,and it's something that I've
just come to like, hey, listen,whatever rules are rules.

(49:23):
I got people like, oh, likethis doesn't make sense.
Well, yeah, you know what?
It's not going to make sensefor us, but you know for for
somebody else, it's for them.
It it makes you know forsomebody else it's for them, it
makes sense.
So you know it's there.
You just got to live with itand just go about your, go about
your business.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
Oh, 100 percent.
I, I kind of think about it thesame way.
I mean, I train my team here atmy, at my business is, you know
, we're we're a team.
We're a team of the DNnr, we'rea team of the national resource
commission.
We're a team.
We're a team with anybody thathas anything to do with
conservation.
You know, I'm a hunter, but I'mI've never really been the

(50:04):
greatest conservationist, and Ithink that's where a lot of
hunters fall is.
They're not greatconservationists.
And our DNR and our localgovernment, our state government
that helps implement all thoserules and regulations, they're
part of our team.
And just like the soccer teamor football team he played on,
every player had a reason, arole and that that helped the

(50:28):
team succeed.
Right, like you can't pull thegoalie in soccer unless you're
trying to make moves in andscore, because you're down right
, but you still have 11 men onthe field.
Right, and to me, every teammember plays a role and not
every team member is as good asthe other.

(50:49):
So each team member has to pulltheir own way and be the best
they possibly can be, becausethere's always going to be team
members that that aren't aren'tquite there.
Right, like everybody played asport with somebody that just
wasn't as athletic and still gotplaying time and or just wasn't
quite as good, but you didn'twant to get them off the team.
When you look back now in highschool you're like, oh, we could

(51:10):
do without them.
But as you grow and mature andand get a little bit older, it's
like man, we, we needed everyaspect of that team to succeed.
We needed the bench players, weneeded the, the fifth pitcher
for the baseball team, wholiterally threw like 10 innings
that year.
Um, it, it's the same, it's thesame thing.
I mean we're.
When we look at everything.
I don't know why it's so hardfor us to comprehend that, but
I'm a firm believer that we area team, with the DNR, our local

(51:34):
COs, our conservation officers,I mean even our local police
department, who has to deal withsome of that stuff as well.
It's we're a team and if wedon't want to build the
community of ground, build ourown community and start our own
rules and regulations that we'regoing to just follow, then why
are we complaining about therest of them?

(51:54):
Because they're doing theirbest and everyone's going to
complain, and just like peoplecomplain about antler point,
restrictions and qdma.
You know quality deer managementpractices and it's like to be
honest with you.
If some dude goes, shoots afour corn, but your area had a
rule that there was a four onone side and it was like me,
honest with you.
If some dude goes, shoots afour corn, but your area had a
rule that there was a four onone side and it was just you and

(52:16):
the neighbors.
I had that rule and some 40year old man who owns 200 acres
is pissed that this 16 year oldshot a four corn.
That dude.
That dude needs to like justchill out like we're.
You know.
We want him to be a part of theteam.
We want that kid to grow up andlove it.
Our DNR just got rid of theyouth and our youth hunt.
This is our last year they canshoot bucks.

(52:37):
Really, my son, if I could takehim out this year at four years
old, it would be the only yearhe'll be able to shoot a buck.
So now it's antlerless only.

Speaker 1 (52:48):
Have you heard of why ?
Did they give a reason whythey're trying to get people to
shoot?

Speaker 2 (52:54):
more.
Does I mean I don't know how wecan emphasize enough the fact
that I mean they've done enough.
Right, we can shoot deer with agun for two months straight Two
months.
I don't know any other statethat allows you to shoot a deer
with a gun for two monthsstraight.

(53:14):
I mean I don't know why we needmore chances, but uh, it is
what it is.
So they're just trying to putthe focus and the emphasis on
does?
Um, we're actually our doepatrol is is looking into
purchasing a trailer?
Um, and getting it outfittedwith a ac unit and a cool dot
system?

(53:34):
Um, so that during the youthhunt we can throw an event where
, if kids donate their dough,we'd give them a little gift
package or local pro shops onboard with it and they're gonna
throw some shirts and swag inwith it.
Um, just because we're gonnahave to make the youth season,
something about it is going tohave to be cool, or?

(53:54):
I mean, whose dad's going towant to take their kid out and
be like oh yeah, buddy, you getto shoot a doe Like, like
nobody's?
Every dad wants their kid toshoot a buck, right, they'll go
to work and brag the spike thattheir kid shot, it just doesn't
matter.
They want their kid to shootsomething with antlers.
So there's some weird thingswith our state, but I don't
necessarily disagree with it,because the amount of mature

(54:16):
bucks that get shot on theirsummer patterns september 15
still because of the youth hunt,is pretty high.
Um, but at the same point it'slike selfishly from all the
hunters who don't want them shotduring the youth hunt.
It's like, well, maybe weshould pass more two-year-olds
then during season.
So anyways, I think it's goingto be good.

(54:39):
It's just a bummer because it'sgoing to be harder for hunter
retention.
I think we're going to have aharder time.
We're going to see our hunternumbers decline and that's a
problem.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
Yeah, we're already up against it Like it's.
You know, with that what?
What have you seen in inMichigan?
You know, I just looked at theat the stats for for Jersey and
a lot of the numbers are aredown, which is which is never,
never good.
You know where, like you said,it's not like fishing, it's not
like boating, it's not like.
You know where, like you said,it's not like fishing, it's not

(55:13):
like boating, it's not like.
You know, my buddy, he, he ownsa, a food account.
He has a very successful foodaccount where now this is what
he does and it's everyone eats.
You know, everyone loves food,everyone loves.
You know, fishing's easy, it's,it's cheaper, it's everything
like that.
Hunting really has a lot ofthings against it, you know.
So what have you seen inmichigan with, with the hunting
number and, and you know thingslike that?

Speaker 2 (55:36):
um, well, I think we have roughly like half a million
tags or something like thatthat are sold a year or in
between, half million or yeah,500 000 to a million tags that
are sold.
Uh, but we're, we're down.
Oh, yeah, she right, sureenough.
Uh, we're early 2000s.

(55:57):
We had about 800,000 deerhunters and we're down to about
half a million.
So our hunter numbers havedeclined tremendously in the
last 15 years.
Um, but we can.
We can feel it from thestandpoint of the amount of

(56:18):
people who are like man, I'dlike to get into hunting, but I
don't have a mentor.
I really, I really am a firmbeliever that the baby boomer
generation dying off is the isthe biggest reason for that.
They were giant hunters, I mean, they were.
That whole generation had togrow up to do whatever they
could to survive, you know, um,and so them them passing away.

(56:40):
You're losing a lot, of a lotof hunters.
The regulations changing, Imean our state switched it to
where you have to eelectronically, um, confirm that
you shot a deer, um, andthere's a lot of people that are
pissed about that.
So they're just making it sothat it's a little bit more
challenging for people who arelike I.
That's just the straw in thecamel's back for me kind of

(57:02):
thing.
Where I'm like I've been onIllinois you gotta
electronically do that everyyear and I think it's great
because it's more, you'regetting better numbers for the
DNR and for NRC to be able toactually confirm how many deer
are actually shot, versus mejust punching my tag and
wrapping it around my deer andprocessing it myself.
So it's definitely interesting.

(57:24):
I'm a little concerned to seewhat's going to happen in the
future with hunter numbers,because the amount of mature
bucks that are starting to getshot is going up as well and
that the only reason that thatmakes sense to me is that we're
our numbers are down.
My generation or generate ourgeneration is interested in

(57:45):
managing deer, so we're lettinggo smaller deer.
But I don't, I don know.
I don't know how we're going toget people, how we're going to
get kids to be excited aboutdoes I love does.
Don't get me wrong.
I mean I feel like I'm like theKip Campbell of Michigan where
I just freaking love shootingdoes, but not everybody's that
way.
So I've got to make killingdoes great again, I guess.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
A hundred percent, definitely definitely do.
All right.
So I got a few more for you.
You know I'm going to, I'mgoing to get you with our
classic questions, for we havewith every new guest that we
have on here.
So if you could have for twoweeks, money is not an option,
don't, doesn't matter.

(58:31):
What is your dream animal andwhere would it be?
Alaskan moose there we go noquestions asked.
Alaskan moose I'm right therewith you.
Everyone knows that.
Everyone who listens to thisshow knows that that's in a flow
.
I would like to do it on.
You know, float the river fortwo weeks and my gosh moose.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
I would do a lot for that.
I, I'm actually supposed to bein three years doing northern
ontario moose, but if you're not, if you're non-resident, it's
art, it's firearm.
Only they don't allow residentor non-residents to use archery
equipment.
So, um, yeah, alaska, alaska,most of the bow would be my
dream, otherwise kodiak grizzly.
But I think that my biggestthing is I elk is.

(59:18):
There's so many elk in ourcountry and in canada that and
everybody wants to do elk and itjust doesn't.
It just doesn't trip my triggerthe way that everybody else
does.
Um, like, for instance, I go tomaryland sika deer hunting, I
go to your neck of the woods, um, and this is gonna be my second

(59:40):
year going to maryland sikadeer hunting and I, I just I
love it.
It's like mini elk, right, um,and not a lot of people are into
that and maybe, maybe that'spartially why I'm like I'll get
an elk someday, but it justdoesn't trip my trigger.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
I want to go down my one of our team guys, peyton.
He's from Maryland and so we dohave plans on doing that and
everything like that at somepoint.
But you know, I always tellpeople like when you're going
through this, like your dreamanimal is something that's very
hard to achieve, and I think elkhunting is just it's pretty
easy to achieve in, in myopinion you know, I know they've

(01:00:18):
made it a little harder, Ithink next year.
I think colorado made it there'sno more over the the counter
tags or or something like that.
So yeah, it's going to make ita little bit.
But but you have Utah, you haveNew Mexico, like damn, we have
PA.
Pa has them.
You guys have them.
You know, I think.
And also, if you're looking at aprice range, you're not looking

(01:00:41):
at the same price range like goto go to Alaska.
You know, depending whereyou're from, you're going to
have to take two flights, youknow.
Then you're going to have totake that, that small plane to
wherever you're going.
Then you're going to have tofly, you know, you know the
float plane or whatever they are, and you're going to have to go
to some remote area.
That it's.
It's a lot of money, it's a lotof time, it's a lot of

(01:01:01):
traveling and you know it's justnot like it's a dream, because
you know, at the end of the day,I swear and I pray that it
happens and I would give a lotfor it to happen but it may not
be achievable.
Where elk, like, honestly, if Iwant to go elk, I could
probably go hunt elk this yearand it's.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
Yeah, it's not actually a dream, it's.
It's something that could be areality for anybody.
I agree with you 100, I mean.
I think my ultimate dream isdesert bighorn sheep, because
I'm fascinated with sheep, butthat one's like.
At least with a moose I'm likeI think I can scrape together 30
grand and figure out how to goon a moose hunt, but I don't

(01:01:45):
think I've got 70 grand layingaround for sheep and I don't
know that I'd ever have 70 grand.
And I hired a guy for pointsactually, so he takes care of
all my points laying around fora sheep, and I don't know that
I'd ever have 70 grand.
So it's like, and I, I hired aguy for points actually, so he
takes care of all my points, sohe, he knows that I want to do,
I mean I think I applied for, Ithink, eight different states,
15 different species or 16different species, um, so, and

(01:02:09):
he's awesome, I mean he justtakes care of it all so I don't
have to worry about it.
It's a pain in the butt knowingwhat States you need to apply
for when, um, and I want to dothe sheep someday, and that's
the only way that I could eversee it being feasible is by
applying for 25 years, and yeah,it's a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
Yeah, no, it's definitely a lot, lot um typical
or non-typical whitetail I'msplit.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
Give me a giant eight point.
Like I shot 154 inch eightpoint a few years ago and like
now I want a 168 point.
Uh, give me, give me a giganticeight point, or non-typical,
like a mainframe 10.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
I'm like nah, not interested, so non-typical for
sure, otherwise a giant eightthere's nothing that looks like
giant eights look just so soimpressive like it's oh yeah,
giant eights look just so soimpressive like it's oh yeah,
when you picture a deer, a deerthat's what you picture, like

(01:03:16):
that, just that frame, andeverything like that.
Or sixes I love big sixes, likeI had a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
And now sixes I I think I found a very big, tall
six and there's just somethingabout a six that is just like I
don't know, it's beautiful Ichased 130 inch six point last
year and I spent a lot of timetrying to get after him and I
just couldn't, I couldn't, Icouldn't close the door.

(01:03:42):
I mean he had over 24 inchbeams.
The dude is he was gnarly.
Um, yeah, big sixes and bigeights.
The eight point I'm after thisyear's in Michigan it was in the
one forties with over 10 inchbrow times.
So I'm I'm hoping I can closethe door on this dude this year,
but definitely we'll see you.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
Uh, you're a.
True, you're a.
You're a snack guy in the woods.

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
What's your go-to hunting snack?

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
Cosmic brownies All day, all day, you can't go wrong
.
Or Cinnabons Cinnabons are goodtoo Anything you can get from a
gas station that makes you feellike shit.
It's just a little bit ofnutrients for the day, right, if
you can call it that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
Oh yeah, um, if you could, if you could own property
in any state, what state wouldit be to hunt?

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
uh, honestly, probably michigan.
Um, I love our state and Iwould look for property in the
northern lower um in theCadillac region that someday, if
I ever drew for an elk, I couldshoot an elk on my own property
, I could bear hunt on my ownproperty and could manage deer

(01:05:01):
so you could shoot three awesomebig game species all in one
state.
Um, and partially because it'sit's close to home, I don't want
to leave my family and myfriends they're we're very close
and tight niche.
So if I was like, oh, I had afalling out with everybody, then
I'd be like, okay, I'm gonna gobuy a ranch in montana, uh, but

(01:05:22):
uh, to have a falling out witheveryone you're close to is uh,
got to do something pretty dumb.
So we're to stick here inMichigan, unless I was a douche
all of a sudden.

Speaker 1 (01:05:33):
So yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
If you could get sponsored by one company, what
would it be?
Ooh, one company.
Oh, that's a good question.
One company, oh, man, yeah, yougot me there.
I would probably say I go a lotof different routes for this,

(01:06:08):
because at one end I'm thinkingof, like hunt wise, which is our
, is a you know, the mappingsoftware.
Like onyx, um, because they'remichigan-based, is where they
were founded, um, but we alreadydo stuff with them, so I can't
really use them.
Uh, I, I would.
I would probably go with theboat manufacturer, um, I would

(01:06:32):
go.
I would want to run with ayounger company or a company
that's rebranding.
So I'd go with like elite um, Ishoot an elite they were.
They went under new managementrecently and I've changed up a
bunch of things and I heard theculture.
They're shifting and doingreally good things and I think
it'd be fun to be with a companythat's not necessarily like the
Matthews of the world, whereyou're kind of insignificant.

(01:06:55):
So I would go with a companylike that, where you have a
little bit more involvement andyou're somebody to them and you
get to grow with them and theygrow with you.
I'm a firm believer that arising tide raises all ships.
So I want to be with a youngercompany like elite.

Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
Yeah, I mean I've.
I've heard great things aboutelite over the last couple of
years, like they have definitelyshifted the tides.
Um, what's the?
If you could only hunt one weekout of the year, what week
would you be picking?

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
Uh, I would be in central illinois at our deer
farm down there, october 20 tooctober 27 or october 22 to
halloween.
Pre-rut to the rut.
I'm not.
I'm not a big fan of the rut.
I love the pre-rut.

Speaker 1 (01:07:48):
It's a big answer for for a lot of people.
They always say that like therut is just so unpredictable,
you know you're.
If you're chasing a specificdeer, you're probably not going
to kill that specific deer, butif you're looking for a deer
that's just going to be cruisingthrough, you may have
opportunity.
I mean, I drew back at, youknow, one of the bucks.

(01:08:11):
I named him, kong um, had twoor three years experience with
him, had him at 12 yards but hewas chasing does and I could not
get him to stop.
I was met, met, I was screamingand he just did not care
whatsoever like he was, justlike going all over the place.
So it does make it a veryfrustrating time frame to kill a

(01:08:36):
specific deer or to even get adeer to to stay still for for a
second.

Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
But um we, we have so much fun at our illinois deer
farm, the pre-rut it the thedeer are just interested enough
in calling so you can call them.
That's what I love about thepre-rut is you get a deer to
come in to check out a doe decoyor they think it might be the
early, like a doe is an earlyestrus.
And I just think that pre-rutyou get a lot more deer just

(01:09:04):
cruising around looking for thatfirst deer or first doe.
But yet they're still in normalranges, right, they're not
going miles at that point.
And I chased a giant buck lastyear that way, missed him with
my bow, ended up catching upwith him late november and I
mean he was a giant, he was 170inch deer and just chasing him

(01:09:25):
and in the early pre-rut, having10 different encounters with
him and nothing was close enoughafter I missed him with my bow,
it's like that was so cool.
Um, that was a great experience.
And you just see deer doingdeer things still instead of
just horny things where theydon't really know what they're
doing.

Speaker 1 (01:09:42):
They're just running around yeah yeah so I I always
say um, you know my saying, for,for the rut, it's like you're,
you're going out to a bar or aclub and you've done a bunch of
cocaine and Red Bull and Vodka'sand you're just all over the
damn place.
Um, you know, if you have thethe opportunity to to hunt with

(01:10:08):
one person, um, you know, itcould be a relative, it could be
someone famous, it could be arelative, it could be someone
famous.
They could be living, theycould be of deceased.
Um, you know who?
Who would you pick?
Um?

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
um, probably, I'm a big ted nugent guy.
Uh, ted Nugent would be a riot.
Uh, you can go to his deer camp.
He's in Michigan, he's aMichigan guy.
Um, but you can go.
I've thought about paying to gohunt his high fence just so I
can spend time with him at hisdeer camp.

(01:10:44):
Uh, I think it'd be a riot.
I think he's just hilarious.
Um, if I was going to go moreof a serious route, um, I would
probably say my grandpa, whodied when I was young.
But he's the reason why we'rehunters.
Or, um, uh, oh my gosh, golly,oh my gosh, clay newcomb did a

(01:11:08):
huge podcast on what's his name.
It was a giant bear hunter wayback when.
Anyways, it doesn't matter, butone of those old guys like a
Fred bear kind of thing whereyou could learn a lot from
somebody.
I think that'd be fascinating.

Speaker 1 (01:11:23):
Yeah, so family would be grandpa, for you know, just
to see a riot, would be TedNugent.
And then you know, like afriend, those are all good, all,
all great ones.
Um, and then you know, really,last one, you know I got for you
here today.
Um, you know what, what wouldbe your, your, what's the
five-year plan for for you guysover there?
You know what, what do you hopeto achieve in the next five

(01:11:46):
years?

Speaker 2 (01:11:47):
Yeah, I want to be able to be a company where we're
sustaining processors, to beable to take in those.
So I want to be able to get tothe point that we can pay
processors more than enoughmoney to take in does and have

(01:12:19):
anywhere from 10 to 15processors partnered with us, Um
, and we can pay them anywherefrom 30 to 50 bucks a year
that's donated and we can helpshift the culture in Michigan.
So that'd be, that'd be mydream.
My goal with this company is tocontinue to to grow out that
way and way and continue tobless people who who don't have
enough meat.

Speaker 1 (01:12:37):
So yeah, no, I, I love it and you know, I hope
that is all achievable for youguys and in the future.
You know, tim, it was anabsolute pleasure getting you on
any.
Any last words.

Speaker 2 (01:12:52):
Yeah, I gotta.
I gotta cheers I want to sharewith you, man.
I mean, I know it's a, it's 10AM here, but I wrote a cheers in
the deer stand one time and itwas something that I love
sharing with other people.
So here's my cheers, man, tothe deer, not the deer that are
hung on the wall, but the deerthat someday soon will fall.
We will not forget the mightychase and putting delicious
loins right on our plates, forit does not matter how big or
small, because, at the end ofthe day, the trophies to us all.

(01:13:14):
Each trophy stir tells a talethat will last for other without
fail.
So grab a beer or fill up aglass.
It's your signet.
And, lazy ladies, let's kicksome ass.

Speaker 1 (01:13:23):
That is fun.
I love that that's a good one.
That's a good one.

Speaker 2 (01:13:29):
I like that.
So, cheers man, thanks forhaving me on.
I really appreciate your time.

Speaker 1 (01:13:32):
Cheers man.
Yeah, appreciate it Everyone.
I hope you guys enjoyed thisepisode.
The links are going to be downbelow.
Go support them.
And also one more thing eventhough you know we're able to to
Venmo you guys money, so whenyou guys are doing this, we can
donate and everything like thatthrough through Venmo and things
like that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:49):
Correct Yep that through Venmo and things like
that, correct?
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, buy some merchandise,that way you can rock it back
home.
So that's the best thing thatpeople could ever do is I mean
people walking around saying, oh, what's that shirt?
We got a pretty cool thinggoing on right now Miles for
Meat.
We got a buddy running 46.6miles, so we got logos with his
shirt on a shirt and it's reallycool what he's doing.

Speaker 1 (01:14:13):
And we on a shirt and it's.
It's really cool what he'sdoing and he's just uh, we're
selling shirts to raise fundsfor what we do.
So Definitely, everyone, makesure you guys go check them out.
No-transcript.