Dr Kendra Campbell the UnPsychiatrist Psychiatrist: Psychiatry is the CAUSE Rather Than the SOLUTION

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode
of the Gaslit Truth Podcast.
I am your hostess with themostest therapist, jen, here
with my good friend and co-host,dr Tara Lynn, dr T, and we are
here today with a very, veryspecial guest.
And before we introduce thatspecial guest from the other
side of the globe here, which isway cool, what I do want to

(00:24):
talk a little bit about is howyou reach out to us.
We are very easy to find on allthe socials, so if you're on
the Facebook or you're, I alwayshave to put the in front of
everything.
It's like going to the Walmart.
I don't know why I do that, butyou know you're on the
Instagram.
It just feels right.
I don't know, but if you're onany of those socials, come on
and find us.
Terry and I are both on TikTok,but then the Gaslit Truth

(00:47):
Podcast has things on Facebookand we are on Instagram and
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We're starting to get messagesfrom people still in the United

(01:08):
States yet, but from all overthe US, which is kind of cool
giving us feedback about ourpodcast.
We can't do it without you,guys.
This is why we do what we do.
Without further ado, I'm goingto let Dr Terry introduce our
guest for today.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
Hopefully I can muddle my way through this intro
, but I'm really excited to haveDr Kendra Campbell on the show.
Dr Campbell is your free rangefounder, tiktok's first holistic
psychiatrist.
I remember seeing you on TikTokand I was like she's mine, yes,

(01:43):
love it.
She's mine, yes, and one of theonly.
I am one of the only Ivy leaguetrained physicians in the world
to publicly, unapologeticallyand loudly voice the
indisputable reality that theentire traditional model of
mental health care isfundamentally flawed, in my

(02:03):
opinion, should just be flusheddown the toilet and start it all
over again.
Welcome, dr Kendra Campbell, tothe show.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (02:12):
I'm so excited to be here.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
It's so lovely.
Welcome to see you guys inperson or see you guys virtually
in person.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
Yeah, I know, because we've been following each other
on TikTok for quite a while, soat least I've been following
you.
I think, probably longer thanyou've been following me.
However, when I saw your stuff,I was like there's actually a
psychiatrist out there thatfeels the same way.
It was so validating, and it'sjust so validating that you're
validating other people's livedexperience.

(02:41):
I want to say alternative, butI don't think these experiences
are alternative.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
No, no, it's the norm .

Speaker 3 (02:50):
It is the norm.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yeah, not normal, but the norm yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:55):
Oh, I like that.
Not normal, but the normbecause you're right.
So how do you handle?
You get a lot of backlash.
Are there any ways?
I think I think you don't somuch anymore, because I think
when you've developed anaudience, they want to see your
stuff Right.
So you know it.
There's, but there still isbacklash.
So I just kind of want to knowhow you handle that backlash.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah, it's so funny Cause I was just thinking about
this morning because I left acomment on some random person's
profile on Instagram and now mycomment has like 7,000 likes on
it and and, and and about.
Like a good 30% of it is likereally serious hate because it's
not a platform that I'mnormally on, so it's like they
don't know me.

(03:36):
So they, they, they love tohate on me.
Um, I, I honestly I canactually say honestly,
authentically love it whenpeople like hate.
I love it when people send meangry or blame me or whatever,
because for me it's all likewhat's that thing grist for the
mill or whatever.
It's just, it's, it'sinteresting.
It's interesting to me, likeit's interesting what I say, and

(03:58):
then people have very strongemotional reactions to that and
as a psychiatrist, I loveanalyzing, actually, like I
wonder why this person you knowI said this and this person's
going off on this so I can tellthat they were probably injured
like this, like can kind oftruth, yeah, that is the truth.
I, that's, that's it yeah.

(04:20):
And that's what it is.
To me, hate is just a form ofpain that people are kind of
spewing externally right.
It's just like saying I'm inpain and I'm going to project
that pain onto you.
So, it doesn't bother me.
Honestly, I kind of even enjoyit a little bit, and I will say
that I went through a little ofthat last night too.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
So I'm not going to reply and I'm like, oh, it's
just too intriguing for me andlike I just have to.
I just have to tell you guysthat you're really not
considering other things.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
One thing that I really love to do.
I don't always, rarely havetime to do this, but it's to
actually like go into aconversation with this person
and really get into it, likeinto, like this therapeutic
space, like holding thistherapeutic safe space for them,
and literally that will go backand forth, back and forth, back
and forth, and by the end of itthey're crying and they're
saying oh, I'm sorry for what Isaid, and blah, blah, blah.
You know, it's like you can havelike that effect on a total

(05:11):
stranger and you know just arandom stranger that happened to
send this little message and Ican help them in some way, and
to me that is so super cool,like why can't I do that?

Speaker 3 (05:21):
So it's funny because I'm much bigger on TikTok than
I am on any other platform.
But on Instagram I'm startingto pick up speed in the wrong
way, like in all the wrong ways,and same thing is happening,
like suddenly I'm in front ofthis audience that is just not
liking the message, you know.
But I'm still trying to sitwith that because I remember on

(05:45):
TikTok it happened the same way,you know, and, but I'm still.
I'm still trying to sit withthat because I remember on
TikTok it happened the same way,you know, like originally, like
, oh, you know it's so divisive,right, and so I'm like all
right, eventually people willcalm down.
But what I noticed was, well,it's either women middle, they
look like middle-aged women, Ican't tell, but you know their
profile picture looked likemiddle-aged women or young
people like early twenties, midtwenties.

(06:06):
Have subscribed to this.
I don't know.
Psychiatric medication willsave you mentality, and to me
that is so incrediblyfrightening that they believe
the answer to their problems isin the bottom of a pill bottle.
That freaks me out a lot.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yeah, and alongside of that, their diagnosis right.
Their diagnosis is their life,it is their identity.

Speaker 3 (06:33):
Oh, my gosh, and often.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
I see, especially in the younger, like 20, population
you were talking about youngthey will put, like you know,
bpd, mdd.
Like you know they put like alltheir-.

Speaker 3 (06:41):
In their bio.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
In their bio.
Yeah, like you know, they putlike all their bio in their bio.
Yeah, and to me that's justit's profound.
It's profound that we, you knowthat we are in this world where
that people are feel sostrongly about a medical
diagnosis as being like theiractual identity in life.
But it really is the lensthrough which they see
everything.
It is.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
It's how those labels box them in, right?
Because it really will silo youin terms of how much you're
willing to consider the type ofinformation, especially in the
mental health field where it isso very siloed.
I think that there's somethingthat feels really good to
finally understand.
I've got a label on me so now Iunderstand what's happening.
It makes so much sense.

(07:19):
The last how many years of mylife are now encompassed on this
ADHD label, or theneurodivergent community is very
strong.
They love you, Terry.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
They do not love me.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
The addiction community loves me.
Right now they don't love meeither.
I'm being sarcastic.
I'm not telling this stuff.
I'm in a big fight with a bunchof people in the addiction
community right now as of like 8am yesterday, okay.
But that label feels good, Ithink, for people right, because

(07:53):
now I've explained it, but boydoes it silo you and your
ability to see otheralternatives.
Then, especially here, whenwe're looking at our Western
culture and the way the Westernmedicine, like you've put
yourself on that label You'vegot the diagnostic label and all
of the bullets that go with itexplains everything and
interventions then fall underwhat we do here best, which is
psychiatry.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
Yeah, to me it's just such a doom thing You're doomed
too.
That's what psychiatry and mostof psychology is.
Once you have this label, thisis a label for life.
So it also just says it's nevergoing to get better, you're not
going to get better, andliterally just squashes their
hope to the point where I makecontent where I'm saying people
can heal, you can heal, andpeople hate that right.

(08:34):
Because they're that real, thecognitive dissonance of me
saying yes, you could actuallyheal, when they're like living
in this world of no, this istheir life and there's nothing
that they can do about it.
Like that, that really upsetsthem, you know.

Speaker 3 (08:46):
The resistance to healing is profound in anybody
that's in the mental healthspace most people until it's not
.
But to get to the place whereyou're, like I, can see my
healing, it's like crawling outof a deep dark hole that you
can't, you know, grab ontoanything because there's no
guidance to do it.
But this idea that these,especially the younger kids, I

(09:10):
worry about a lot because ifyou're listening to this and
you're a younger person, I justwant to say you're not supposed
to know who you are when you'rein your twenties, like this is
part of growth.
You're not supposed to labeland identify.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
You're not supposed to know who the hell I am.

Speaker 3 (09:26):
I'm 55.
My goodness, I have no idea.
You're not supposed to know andyou're not supposed to box
yourself in either.
And, by the way, your 20s arelargely uncomfortable, exactly.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
Yeah, oh, we got it.
Dr T, you froze on us Veryuncomfortable.

Speaker 3 (09:46):
Yeah, you're back, okay.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
T you froze on us Very uncomfortable yeah you're
back.

Speaker 3 (09:48):
Okay, hang on, you're back.
I don't know what happened,you're fine.
Anyway, I think it's this ideaof that.
We don't like discomfort and sowe need to solve any level of
discomfort that comes our way.
And maybe that solution is adiagnosis.
But most people don't even knowespecially the younger people

(10:09):
when you get those diagnoses,how that can impact your life
futuristically and not in a goodway.
Not in a good way.
The forever fighting foryourself will be profound.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, and I work with all ends of the spectrum, like
I've worked from little littlekids down to, you know, all the
way to the elderly.
And I, you know I've seen thelifespan of what happens when
someone is diagnosed as a childand then they carry that
diagnosis, they're medicated,and then what their life looks
like when they're in theirforties, fifties, sixties and
it's not a beautiful thingactually it's.
It's pretty sad.

(10:43):
What, what that trajectory ison medications and sticking to
that Well, I can't get anybetter and what that does to
your life.
It's really so disempowering.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
It is.
It is.
I wonder like and I think ourlisteners to wonder a little bit
about this Can you tell us,kendra, how did you get to this
space where you decidedtraditional psychiatry?
The degrees, the labels,everything I've gotten, the
education is I'm not doing thisand it's actually harmful.

(11:15):
How'd you get there?

Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yeah, it's a little interesting story.
So I graduated undergrad with adegree in psychology and you
can't really get many jobs withthat.

Speaker 3 (11:24):
I'm so sorry that you did that.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
Go back and go shit.
The only job I could find wasworking as a psychiatric
technician in a statepsychiatric hospital.
I was actually super acute unitso I saw a lot of stuff there
and it was my job to be with thepatients 24 seven.
I was a psych tech.
So, I knew everything that washappening with them.
I talked to them.
I talked to them about theirtrauma, everything, and then I
would see the psychiatrist comein for like three minutes, maybe

(11:50):
you know, and have aconversation and then decide to
make a change on theirmedication, which I also
observed.
These changes in theirmedication didn't often actually
do the thing that they weresupposed to do.
Often people felt much worseand were continually complaining
of the side effects.
Of course, no one wanted totake the medications and I feel
bad for this, but like it was myjob where I actually would

(12:11):
convince people who didn't wantto take their meds to take their
meds, like that was kind of myjob.

Speaker 3 (12:14):
It's the convincing.
It's the convincing.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, I was really good at convincing them and I
feel bad about that now, butthat's what I did.
And then I just it wasinteresting, so that was the
beginning.
So somewhere after working therefor about two or three years, I
basically said you know what?
I'm going to go to medicalschool, I'm going to become a
doctor, I'm going to become apsychiatrist, just so I can
figure out, like cause maybethere's something that they,

(12:36):
that they know, that I don'tknow, because I kept thinking to
me it seems pretty obviousthese people have a lot of
trauma, like to me it was justtrauma was like the big thing,
like they're all just heavilytraumatized and the medications
aren't doing anything to healthe trauma and in fact I would
argue that they do the opposite.
And so but I was like, but I'mjust a little 20 year old,
nothing, what do I know?
So let me just go do this, andso I can at least see what I

(12:58):
should know and see what theirperspective is.
And that's literally why I wentto med school.
So I went to med school andthen I did psychiatry residency
and somewhere during thatprocess.
So the whole medical educationsystem is a brainwashing machine
.
I'm sure you guys know this Likeit is like literally they sleep
, deprive you food, deprive you,they berate you.

(13:19):
It's all the same things that,like the military uses, like you
know, in boot camp and stufflike that.
And so it's just, you're primedto be brainwashed.
So anything they say, and theysay it so many times and they
say it so like it is this, youknow, they say it like it's
gospel right, like this mentalillness is this and this
medication will help this.
And so I did kind of buy intoit.
I will say not a hundredpercent, I was never a hundred

(13:41):
percent like this is good, but Ibought into it just enough that
I, after residency, decided tocontinue to work in traditional
psychiatry.
I started working and runningan emergency room in New York
City and the long and short ofit is that there I just saw it
even more right, because I sawthe revolving door of people

(14:02):
coming in and what would happenwhen they would get the
medication and what happens whenyou give a suicidal person an
antidepressant and like allthese things.
I was just seeing and seeingand seeing and I couldn't unsee
that and at the same time my ownhealth was like getting worse
and worse and worse and worse.
In this environment.
My mental health was horrible.
I was on medications.
It was just a wreck.
And I eventually came off of allthe medications that I was on,

(14:26):
which was a whole process.
I found like holistic medicineand came off, and then basically
I realized after that I waslike I can't do this anymore,
and the day that I found outthat I was pregnant with my
daughter was the day that Iheard this voice.
Actually may have been hervoice, I don't know, but I heard
a voice that said leave, leave,don't come back, this is not it

(14:47):
.
And so that's what I did.
I literally called my boss andsaid I'm not coming back to work
tomorrow and I was doing moreshifts than anybody else.
It was like they were like what, and I left New York City and I
moved to Virginia and that'swhere I founded free range.
And then, basically since then,I have only been working with

(15:08):
people.
I work with people mostly whoare looking to come off of
psychiatric medications, and sobecause of that, I have I'm
privy to like, really like thedepths and the darkness and the
despair and the injuries and thesuffering that happened to
people when they're on thesemeds and when they can't get off
of these meds and so that justsort of re-enforced everything

(15:29):
and basically to the point whereright now I just, I mean, you
could probably just call me ananti-psychiatrist.
I guess I am a psychiatrist whois an anti-psychiatrist,
because I really don't.
You know, I've completely goneoff on another land that is not
anything related to traditionalpsychiatry at this point.

Speaker 3 (15:45):
Yeah, yeah.
So I also want to make thepoint what med school did you go
to?
I?

Speaker 2 (15:51):
went to Ross University.

Speaker 3 (15:53):
Okay, didn't you?
So what's the Ivy Leaguetrained then Columbia, columbia.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
I actually did two fellowships at Columbia, one in
emergency psychiatry and thenone in public psychiatry, which
is mostly working with peoplewith serious mental illness,
psychotic psychosis, chronicpsychosis and things like that.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
Right.
So when we're talking to Kendra, like she is highly trained in
psychiatry, from the besttraining that one could ever ask
for, and so it's so interestingto hear you talk about like the
light bulb moment, because Ihad a light bulb moment and my
light bulb moment was drivinghome in the car and it was.

(16:32):
It was, um, I could medicatemyself and stay in this job or I
could quit my job, and I quitmy job that day.
Um, although I did give noticeby the way I gave, I gave notice
, although I did give notice bythe way I gave notice.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
I probably shouldn't have, but I did.

Speaker 3 (16:51):
Right, I was not as ballsy as Kendra to not give
notice and not show up, butanyway.
But it's so funny because oncethat light bulb is like ding and
it goes on, you can't shut itoff Like no matter how hard you
want to suppress it, you justcan't.
Because we can't unsee andunknow the things that we see

(17:12):
with our own eyes and and thethings that we felt internally
being on medication and then off, like we can't just not unknow
that stuff anymore.
And I think that's the powerfulplace to be is that

(17:32):
traditionally, you go to adoctor and they don't want you
to believe that any of that ishappening as a result of the
psychiatric or other medicationthat you're taking.
And so that's where the gaslittruth came from.
Actually is this whole ideathat we shouldn't listen to
ourselves, you know, and, but wereally need to start listening

(17:52):
to ourselves and paying very,very close attention.
And Jen is going throughsomething similar right now as
we speak.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, yeah, when you said the word brainwash, it
actually took me back to so.
So Terry and I have talkedabout this before.
We were in that very similarposition.
We went through the institutionand the schooling and did all
of those things and then foundourselves for me it was in a
state-funded, state-run facility.

(18:23):
Terry was in there as well.
It's actually how I met herback in the day, because it was
the only job I could get.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
I couldn't get a job.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, it's like okay, and so I found myself there
going.
I have to get licensed, and ifI can find somewhere that's
going to help license me and Iactually get a paycheck along
with it too, that's cat's ass,right.
It's not going to get anybetter than that, right?
So in that process, though, wasa lot of brainwashing, because
I perpetuated without knowing,right, I was not volitionally

(18:52):
trying to harm people, but I wasthat therapist that sat and
talked about medications.
Shit, I knew more about them,probably than the psychiatrist,
because I was with the patientall the time.
So that's the piece that youhave that you were talking about
too.
Right, they get their 15minutes and we've got 15 hours
in a week with them, right, andit's like I could see the
symptomology that they struggledwith even with these

(19:15):
medications.
But it was like, well, maybeit's only been a couple of weeks
, you've got to give it moretime, or let's reach out to
psychiatry, right, maybe we needa different dose, or perhaps
the side effect like the idea ofthe side effect being connected
to like the original medicationand it not being just a brand
new manifestation that was likeforeign.

(19:35):
We weren't, wasn't like part ofthe language that was spoken to
us right.
And so when you said that theidea that word brainwash, I
think, just fits so much and Ithink there's probably a lot of
clinicians that are listeningnow to this that I'm hoping are
getting curious about that ideathe idea that these labels are
generated from a lot ofconflicts of interest and yet we

(19:57):
keep handing them to people andthey mean everything.
And so brainwashing, I think, issomething that a lot of people
can resonate with, because itwould be worse, oh my God, sleep
deprived, couldn't pay for foodI mean, my God, I couldn't even
figure out how to pay for myeducation and eat ramen noodles
every single day for six monthsbecause I couldn't pay my rent.
Like you, think about, theprocess of just to get to where

(20:20):
we are, for many of us wasn'tjust smooth sailing, oh my God.
And then it's like why the hell?
Well, I can't get a job withthis one.
I guess I got to go get anotherdegree.
And you just fall farther andfarther down that ramp and then
you find yourself saying topeople meds are the way, this is
what you need, and then betteryou know.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
And then and then.
What happens for most people,though, is they get stuck there.
They get stuck there becausethey don't know that people like
us exist.
They don't know that they're,that there's this whole other
world actually that thinksdifferently, and that that so
many other possibilities exist,and so they get stuck.
Like.
I see this all the time.
People send me emails and stufflike that Like I'm in this job,

(21:03):
I'm doing this and doing this,but how do I get out?
Like, how do I do what you do?
How?
do I you know, and it's becauseit's not easy to leave.
You know, to leave, like for meit was the golden handcuffs too
.
Like I had all these benefits,my kids could go to Columbia for
free, like you know, same.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
Yeah, columbia, but you know, yeah, it was great.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
You know, same we're in the same position, state
service, all the things, but Ijust I knew that that, just it
wasn't worth it, All of thatwasn't worth it, you know.

Speaker 3 (21:29):
So I want to talk a little bit about manipulative
language, if you don't mind,because you did mention it a
little bit earlier, about someof the things that we say to
gain compliance.
Oh yeah, you do a lot of videoson this too.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
You have several videos that you have put out
literally that say that and youlist off the manipulative
language, which is pretty cool.
Oh, I see she's going to askyou a question and then I
interrupt and then she freezes.

Speaker 3 (21:58):
I don't know what my?
Connection is doing right now.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
You look good, terri, it's fine.

Speaker 3 (22:03):
As long as I'm not frozen with a weird face, I'm
cool.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
You're not picking your nose.
Just don't pick your nose atall, you'll be fine.

Speaker 3 (22:09):
If I freeze, just keep talking.
I'll be back in a second, Iwill Don't worry.
Okay, so Jen and I have talkedabout this and I have openly
said that I struggle with a lotof shame around some of the
things that I have told people,not maliciously again I think
Jen has mentioned that in heretoday but just because that's

(22:31):
what we were trained to do and Iknow that sounds like a cop out
right, like you should bethinking for yourself.
Well, you know, but when you'retrained to think like the group
and this is how you dosomething for your own liability
, for whatever reason, we engagein a lot of manipulation
tactics, mostly for medicationuse and compliance.

(22:56):
So, even down to the words thatwe use and this is I wanted to
bring this up because Jen, shementioned her recent TikTok that
she had.
She blatantly said I have anaddiction, and it was.
I have an addiction to Lexaprois what she said.

(23:17):
And man, the clause came out inher comment section.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
The last 24 hours every time I open it up.
I'm like, oh my God, there'sanother one, there's another one
right Like 60 comments justlike that about how wrong I am
and the inability for people toeven put that word on this
experience and how addicted mybrain is to that SSRI and what

(23:45):
the tolerance I'm going throughwith the terrible withdrawals
that I'm going through as I'mtapering, and that community
doesn't seem to care for thatlanguage at all.
It's like I used a word that,because I'm not a heroin addict
or I'm not addicted to alcoholor any other drugs I get.
This is legal.
So therefore, this isn't anaddiction, this is just

(24:06):
dependence.
You know, you're all thesesemantics right, um so?

Speaker 2 (24:12):
I.
I have content on that as welland also got a lot of hate as
well from saying that, butthat's actually my belief, is
that, yeah, I do believe thatone can be addicted to ssris.
For sure it it meets the.
I actually have a master classwhere I go into the like the
details of this, like line byline, about how like you look
like if you look at the criteriafor according to the DSM which
I don't really believe in but ifyou look at the.

(24:33):
DSM criteria.
We're still going to hinge onit for this conversation.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
Well, it's because people can under, they seem to.
This is the one thing that theycan understand is this dumb
fricking book.
So it's like, okay, let's usethe terms then, and in that book
.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
if you go line by line the criteria for addiction
and you take somebody on SSR,they can't get off.
It's check, check, check theyactually meet the criteria and
yes, we have a horribleconnotation with them, but
that's the horrible connotationis not.
It just is what it is Right.
And I understand I get itbecause it's like this idea that
a doctor gave it to me and youknow, and people just don't want

(25:07):
to use that word, but thereality is it is an addiction.
In my opinion, and I know manyof like the clients that I have
worked with, and just othercolleagues are, actually believe
that it was an important partof their like healing journey.
When they actually came outwith that, where they like said
you know what, like I amaddicted to this, and by, by
acknowledging that and then likeletting that sort of just like

(25:30):
simmer and grow and heal throughthat, it was actually very
healing for them to have thatacknowledgement.
You know, um, but if you, youknow, what we resist persists.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
So Right, right, like that, and that's exactly what
my.
I tried to put a video out onthis and I was talking, terry's
like oh, she must've beenwatching it, right.
She's like you're getting allkinds of shit and I'm like I
haven't been on this for hours.
She's like you need to look atit.
And it really is.
It's a lot of people that youknow and I don't know where the
frustration or the just I'm notsure where it all comes from for

(26:01):
many people, but what I'mnoticing is a lack of like
understanding, beyond the wordaddiction or beyond the word
withdrawal, or beyond the wordtolerance or beyond the word
dependence.
It's like we are hinged on thislabel, but all the meaning
behind it, the idea that I'm soscared because I can't live

(26:26):
without this right now.

Speaker 3 (26:28):
I truly cannot.
You can't have an addiction forsomething that you need.

Speaker 1 (26:33):
Jen, exactly, it's so unbelievable that when we're
talking about semantics, we'retalking about manipulative
language, right, and I thinkabout this idea of all the years
that I said to people this isnot something that's addictive,
this medication is going to behelpful, right, I said that all
the time and I'm sitting in thisand I literally I went through

(26:53):
the DSM like a week ago and I'vebeen having some come to Jesus
as myself with my process ofwhat I'm going through, and one
of them was looking at thatgoing.
I am all of this, I am everysingle one of these things.
I can't live without this,because if I don't have it, I'm
going to go into some really badspaces, which I already have a
few times.

(27:13):
So that is addiction and to beable to admit that yourself, I
think it is very healing.
I did that video just on thewhim, but really when I look
back on it it's like, yeah, it'spart of the healing process is
to look at this as somethingthat's really impacting my life
in the way that it is, but thesemantics behind it aren't

(27:34):
acceptable.
I can't carry the addictiontitle because I'm not a heroin
addict.
I can't carry that title andthis was given to me legally.
This was given to me bysomebody in a white coat who I
have to trust, so therefore youcan't fall under that criteria.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yeah, and I think it also hits on that topic of like
personal responsibility, whichthere's a lot of people, when
you bring up like that they'repersonally responsible for
anything in their life, get alot, get a lot of anger coming
to you for saying stuff likethat.
And it is.
It is both right.
So to be started on apsychiatric medication I there
probably was gaslighted by apsychiatrist.

(28:09):
There was manipulation, so it'snot like that didn't exist,
that happened and that andthat's a big piece of this as
well and also you agreed to beon that medication and like,
while I'm not blaming somebodyfor that, there is once that
happens and once you becomedependent upon them, there is a
level of personal responsibility, not like blame not blame not

(28:30):
it's your fault, like not, youshould have known better.
Not judgment, but just personalresponsibility and accepting of
what is.
Yeah.
And then, because if you havethat personal responsibility,
that then gives you empowerment,right, that gives you.
Oh, if I'm personallyresponsible, now I can do
something about it.

Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah, and what I'm curious for you to like when,
when it comes to like the ideaof, of informed consent, when it
goes along with that, like what, what should that look like in
your opinion?
You know, like you know, doesit?
I'm just kind of curious toknow, because I think there's a
lot of patients that you see too, over years and years and years
in time, and they've probablytaken medications for a very,

(29:06):
very long time, takenmedications for a very, very
long time, and the conversationsthat they have with their
providers are probably verysimple.
They probably are not okay.
Are you ready to get off?
And it's more.
Okay, you're doing good?
Great, I'll see you in a year.
It's like I'm curious to knowabout that.
And it's kind of a twofoldquestion, like how do we
encourage people to view itdifferently?
Because I do think that's thelevel of personal responsibility

(29:28):
as well, like we almost owe itto ourselves to look at this
from a different lens.
Yeah, but how do you do that?
What you know when you're not,you don't even know it exists.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yeah, I mean that's the thing, like I just it's
about like trying to find thispodcast and our, our channels
and people writing books, andthat's what I always encourage
people to do, like go out andread, because the information is
really starting to be out there.
So, yeah, it is not easy thingto do to go and educate yourself
on all this, but it is, I think, our personal responsibility
for our health to do that right.

(30:02):
We're no longer living in anera that really never was a good
era to live in, but where it'sjust like you go to the doctor
and they give you something andyou just say, okay, the doctor
gave it to me.
I think you know, like we haveto, you know, move towards this.
Well, it's both things.
It's both things.
I believe that the doctors needlike a whole, a lot, a whole
revolution and a change inlearning so that they actually

(30:22):
can give informed consent,because they don't give anything
close to informed consent rightnow.
I know I was.
What I was taught to say wasthat I don't even like to repeat
some of the things that I wastaught to say.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
I think you should.
Yeah, I would love if you did,because, boy, would people want
to hear some of that.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
The most important thing I would say about informed
consent.
When I was told about, you know, discussing the risks of any
drug before was that this wasthe big mantra was like don't
tell them anything, Don't tellthem any of the risks, because
then they're going to have them.
That was the big thing.

(30:58):
If you tell them that they mighthave the side effect and
they're going to come back andactually there is some truth to
that.
There is some truth to that.
But that's not an excuse, thatis not a reason to withhold or
be dishonest with someone abouta powerful drug that has
potentially lethal consequences.
You know that is not the timeto not be transparent.

Speaker 3 (31:19):
You want to know what that is to me.
When I think about this, I'mlike guys.
That just goes back to thepower of the mind, and if the
power of the mind can make youworse, it can definitely then
make you better, right, yeah,yeah.
Which is why, like, it candefinitely then make you better,
right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
Which is why, like, I don't know if you've seen any
of my videos about like theplacebo or if you've read that
book I can't forget there's areally good book.
But anyway, it goes over.
Like the KERSH studies, theKERSH meta-analyses, where they
were looking, basically did ameta-analysis of all these other
studies looking at the placeboeffect and they found that
basically, if you account forall the different variables and

(31:54):
everything like that,essentially the placebo effect
is as strong as the medicationeffect.
So they're essentially kind ofone and the same.

Speaker 3 (32:03):
So, yeah, it's pretty interesting, so yeah, If you
had a perfect world when itcomes to prescribing what would
that?
Look like oh wait, Are you?

Speaker 1 (32:19):
back, because otherwise I'm going to guess the
other half of your question.

Speaker 3 (32:21):
Am I back?
There you go, you're back.
If in a perfect world when itcomes to prescribing, what would
it look like?

Speaker 2 (32:29):
Okay, so let me first not answer your question and
then I'll answer your question.
Um, by not answering yourquestion.
In my perfect world therewouldn't really even be a need
for psychiatric medication, orvery, very, very rarely.
If, like all of these beautiful, wonderful, magical, mythical,
mythical things that I believein could actually come to life,
I don't even know that we wouldever need them.
But if we are going toprescribe them, I would do it

(32:50):
how I still do in my practice,and I'll tell you what the
response has been with this.
So, in my practice, if somebodyis asking, usually most people
are not asking to, but it comesup to start a psychiatric
medication, just like 100%.

(33:12):
I tell them all of the risks,what are the potential benefits.
I go into extensive detailabout the risks.
What could happen?
I go into dependence, I go intowithdrawal.
I talk about like how it'sgoing to change your life, what
it does, numbing of emotions.
I make sure I tell them thatsome of these side effects can
be permanent movement disorders,pssd, like this is not all
things that could even.
You may stop the medication andthey may continue.
And and though, here's thepotential benefit in your case.

(33:36):
Now, what do you want to do andessentially pretty much.
I think 100% of the time theyhave said okay, oh, I forgot the
other part of informed consent.
The other part of informedconsent that's important is not
just talking about the risks andbenefits of the drug, but the
risks and benefits of all yourother alternatives.
So that's what I do as well.
I say we could change up yourdiet, get you to start
exercising.

(33:56):
You know, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah.
And here's the risks andbenefits with that option.
And, like to date, pretty mucheveryone says I'm going with
door number two.
Yeah, because if you knew, ifyou had all of the options and
knew the risks and benefits inboth, it would be very odd, I
think, that you'd want to choosemedication over the other
alternatives.

Speaker 3 (34:15):
Yes, you know there's always that conversation about.
Well, taking psych meds is nodifferent than a diabetic taking
insulin right.
However, even if you have type2, and clearly that is a type 2
diabetic statement, she justkeeps freezing.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
I think it's cute.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
I think I know where she's going yeah, I don't know
she's sorry.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
I'll try to your internet.
There is just just, I mean.

Speaker 3 (34:52):
I don't know what's going on Kendra's halfway across
the globe and she's just finehere.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
What's going on with you in the States?
But this is a problem.

Speaker 3 (35:02):
So, anyway, if your face, even if you have high
cholesterol, high blood pressure, um, or type two diabetes or
even type one diabetes, likepeople, not even type one
diabetes.
But if you go to the doctor andthey say pill or lifestyle, I
do believe most people chooselifestyle first.
They choose nutrition becauseit's to me if it's offered as an

(35:25):
option.
It's not always offered as anoption, though you know, but
when it is offered.
You know, I do believe peoplewill choose the lifestyle
factors first.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I'm guessing you probably see
some of that, you know, in your,in your practice, like are, are
there things?
Oh, you're, you're cutting inand out, terry.
So I just totally talked overyou because you're.
So you were just talking aboutthe risk benefits, alternatives
right Of of the psychiatricmedications but then also risk

(36:05):
benefits of of the alternativesthat you're going to offer Right
, are there things that are likeum big big ticket, like
treatment interventions that youdo that that most people have
not heard of or that reallysurprised them.
You know that you offer forpeople when they're trying to
say, maybe trying to deprescribe.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yeah, and actually or I'll go a little bit further
Sometimes they have heard aboutthem but they didn't really
understand.
Like, for example, my, my,probably one of the number one
things like my big favoritething in the world is like
magnesium, because because offarming, how the farming, modern
farming practices, we're notgetting magnesium.
So you could actually have thebest diet in the world and still

(36:45):
you're probably not going toget enough magnesium, and so
magnesium is required for over800 and some cellular processes.
It's everything our nervoussystem, our energy, everything
is magnesium.
And so when you're deficient inthat, you're going to have all
these things.
You're going to have all themental health problems and lots
of high blood pressure, allkinds these things.
You're going to have all themental health problems and lots
of high blood pressure, allkinds of things.
And it's such an easy fix.
It's just such an easy thing Ijust have to give you, give you

(37:06):
magnesium, and then all of asudden, your body's going to
work.
So it's like this very dramaticthing too, which is why I love
using it.
I always start with thatbecause it's dramatic.
And then they see that andthey're like oh my God, okay,
this doctor knows what she'stalking about.
I'm going to keep doing it.
But often what I find is thatthey may have like heard about
magnesium or even tried it, butI don't know why.
But I guess like a lot of theinformation out there is

(37:28):
inaccurate.
So it's they tried like thewrong type of magnesium or they
took one.
They took like a hundredmilligrams and they thought that
was a trial.
I dose 800 to 1200 milligrams,so it's like often it's like
they may have heard of thesethings but they may not have
like really heard of them in theway that I'm going to present
them and offer them even thesame thing with exercise.
Everybody's heard of exercise,like most people know that

(37:50):
exercise can probably make mefeel better, but do they know
that, like one, this specifictype that I'm going to recommend
to you to do, like you know,just for five minutes a day for
a week, is going to like shiftso much in your life, like just
this one little practice.
So that's, that's what I havefound and and, yeah, most people
are very surprised actually, Imean, they're shocked.
They just come back like howdid that work?

(38:12):
And then there's also like the,the the grieving of like I
didn't know this for 35 years.
If I had known this 35 yearsago, you know, all I needed was
to take a little magnesium atbedtime.
I mean I could have you know.

Speaker 3 (38:26):
So yeah, well, and I think we we run these risks of
one pill, one ill, even when itcomes to supplementation, Right?
So I?
I watch forums, I hear about itfrom my own clients all the
time what works for this?

Speaker 2 (38:40):
I get that all the time.
What's the natural alternativeto Lexapro?

Speaker 1 (38:44):
And I'm like there's just not a natural alternative
Lifestyle.
Hey, when you figure that out,let me know, Kendra.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
But I love explaining to them because this is their
deprogramming.
So actually I have a.
Anyway, I'm building somethingon this that I'm going to be
offering to the public soon, butanyway, because a part of the
process of the clients that Iwork with now is also helping
them to deprogram, and this is abig piece of it.
Right, it's for them tounderstand, like, come to these

(39:13):
understandings that whoa, okay,wait, a second Pill for every
ill?
That's not it.
It's big, much, much, muchbigger than that.
That's not it.
It's big, much, much, muchbigger than that.
That's that's not.
That's not what we're trying todo here.
We're trying to do somethingcompletely different here.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
Yeah, yeah, you said the word lifestyle, and how to
you know, terry and I havetalked a lot about like the idea
of deprescribing not onlymedications, right, but like
deprescribing a lifestyle, and Ihave been so much on this train
in my head in the last coupleof months and what I'm trying
myself and it's pretty amazinghow, when you which it takes a
lot of work, right, like thepill, is very simple, you know,
like that is just one of themost simplest things in the
world to do.

(39:50):
And so there's this whole otherpiece of being able to get
yourself to that space where youhave to.
I mean, for me it was kind oflike accepting I'm going to have
to nurture all of these otherareas, actually more than I ever
have, and most of them arereally truly those big lifestyle
patterns when it comes tonurturing your sleep and your
nutrition and understandingmovement or exercise, and really

(40:14):
bring in a lot of meditationand mindfulness and other
holistic, adaptogenic ideas.
You've got to be willing to tryto bring some of that in,
because it's not one thing, it'sthat lifestyle change.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
Never just one thing yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think
starting to understand that isthe big piece.
That's where I see, like, whenmy clients are like start to
have this major transformationis when they like start to
really get that and then likeget excited about it.
And then, like you know, I findthat interesting too, like in
the work that I do.
There are like a couple ofother psychiatrists who do a

(40:46):
deep prescribing, but currently,right now I could be wrong, but
as far as all all I know thatI'm myself and the other
psychiatrist at free range, drDemir, are the only two
psychiatrists I think that aretaking patients right now in the
world that do the deepprescribing really well.
Like we're really good we weresuper good at knowing how to
like deprescribe and get peopleoff.
But that is just a little pieceof what we do, like the rest of

(41:10):
it is what's really the workthat we're doing, which is to
actually heal the things and dothe lifestyle stuff and
everything like that so thatpeople could come off.
And I get that comment a lot aswell, Like, okay, so to get off
Lexapro.
How many times I take 10milligrams and five milligrams?

Speaker 1 (41:22):
and.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
I'm like, okay, that's a piece of it.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
But you're missed.
There's so much more thatyou're missing, right?
Yeah, I mean, we can give youthe chart and you can go through
your percentages and on your 46step taper program, right, but
if you're not actually doing allof these other, all of the
other lifestyle pieces to it,it's not going to be as
effective, if not possibly noteffective, cause, yeah, I would.

Speaker 3 (41:46):
I would argue that it would be easier to just address
whatever caused you to take themedication in the first place
than to deprescribe.
Yeah Right, like in thebeginning, if we would just
address that.
You know now we're dealing with, you know, chemical imbalance,

(42:08):
yes, that are created from themedication.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
All of that on top of now still going back and
dealing with what you didn'tdeal with in the first place,
and that's the conversation Ialways have with people and
that's why I have a policythat's one month minimum,
minimum of one month, butideally more than like three or
six months.
I don't even touch themedications and we're just
working on those two thingshealing the two things.

(42:30):
Healing whatever started this inthe first place, which usually
is not healed because it's beenjust covered up by the
medication and it's kind ofsimmering and getting worse over
time and getting worse overtime, and then also the taking
of the medication which causesvitamin deficiencies, gut
dysbiosis, disconnection, likeall these different things are
now compounded on top of theoriginal thing, and so you, and

(42:51):
now you have the like, okay, thechemical dependence, and how do
we get you off that?
So it's quite a lot.

Speaker 3 (42:57):
Yeah, it is Like I said.
It would be way easier, youguys, to just deal with the shit
that brought.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
I know if I could have just dealt with that
asshole that dumped me when Iwas 19 years old for my friend,
instead of going in to get medsoh shit, yeah it would have been
a lot easier.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
It is 100 percent Right.

Speaker 3 (43:16):
It's the stupidest thing when I say it, but it is a
reality?

Speaker 2 (43:20):
I would have not.
Never would I have started it.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:24):
And well, I don't know if you know my story at all
, kendra, but when I startedantidepressants it was a
preventative for postpartumdepression.
I wasn't even depressed, butyet they put me on it and I'm
like looking back on that now.
I should have ran the other way, but I didn't, because the
language you know, like you know, you're going to save yourself
and your child.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
Essentially, you know your bad mom, you don't take it
Like literally, exactly, ohyeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
That's what I got.
What kind of mom are you goingto be without it, jen, that was
the exact words I got twice.
I'm like, yeah, okay, so, so,yeah, that's probably probably
cause I have something to say.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
It's going to cut me off.
So, um, you know, I think Ithink about the stigma of mental
health, right, and I thinkabout how I maybe I'm a outlier
here, but I don't think thestigma of mental health exists
anymore in the way that we keeptalking about it and so we get
slammed a lot by talking about,you know, the what medications

(44:25):
do to people as stigmatizingmental health care.
Yeah, I want to know yourthoughts on that.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
Yeah, absolutely not.
And exactly.
We live in a world right nowwhere it's almost the opposite.
Like you know, people areadvertising that they have
neurodivergence, adhd andeverything on their TikTok page.
Like that's not like a stigmathing, that's like I'm proud of
this, like I feel like we'vealmost gone in that direction so
far and so, no, I understandthat that's coming up for the

(44:52):
people, but not in the least bit.
I believe that what we aredoing by offering people hope,
alternatives, options,empowering them, giving them,
you know, the personalresponsibility, that is
decreasing stigma.
In my opinion, like that is away to you know and destigmatize
people who are takingmedications to same thing.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
Yeah, yeah, you said the word empowerment and what.
I think that's a big piece ofit, right.
I mean and that comes fromagain, the things that even
personally I'm thinking about,you know, I didn't have of like
more knowledge, like the otheralternatives that are actually
there, right, and how empoweringthat is.
I mean if that and what youjust said right, and how that

(45:32):
destigmatizes really truly whatthat does, right, I mean it
feels fantastic when you haveoptions, when you get curious
about shit and go, oh my God, Ican try something else.
I didn't even know that existed.
It's never even been laid outfor me.
I didn't even know that.

Speaker 3 (45:47):
Yeah, I think when we try to distill down mental
health, as you know, a pill isgoing to change it instead of
working on the human psychewe've lost so much on the human
psyche, we've lost so much, youknow like the human condition is
such a big thing to think thata pill is going to change your
human condition.
Well, it will, but it's notgoing to be the way that you

(46:11):
think.
You know it's going to numb youout of your human condition.
It will prevent you fromexploring your own pleasure.
You know all these things.
But yeah, you know, on TV it'sthe happy chemical.
Right, it's the happy chemical.
So a few podcasts ago I said toJen I'm like we need to find
somebody because I got to askthis question.

(46:31):
In psychology we have to pick atheoretical orientation to
hinge on our practice, which isa bunch of bullshit in my
today's world that I have topick some dude from a hundred
years ago to hinge my practiceon.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
We do.
Yep, yeah, we're interviewedthat way too.
We will be asked that whenwe're interviewed for jobs.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
What is your theoretical?

Speaker 1 (46:53):
orientation yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:56):
So I was actually interviewed several years ago
for like a little part-time gigit was probably five years ago
and the question was what isyour theoretical orientation?
And I laughed out loud and Isaid you're still asking people
that I did not get the job, butanyway, probably a good thing.
Yes, do psychiatrists have sometype of theoretical orientation

(47:20):
to choose from, or is it allthe chemical imbalance theory?

Speaker 2 (47:25):
It's pretty much all chemical imbalance theory.
So residencies differ dependingupon where you do.
Your residency in the UnitedStates, like, some are different
and you know some have a littlebit more of this, a little bit
more of that.
I actually went to.
My residency was at SUNYDownstate in Brooklyn and
actually they're known as beingone of the more like liberal
places as far as like like theydo CBT for psychosis there.
That's where I learned, youknow, like you know, and they do

(47:47):
, you know, integrate somethings in there, not a lot, but
a lot more than other places.
But for the for the, you know,99% of my education was
prescribing, was just learninghow the drugs work, learning how
to diagnose, match a drug.
That's it, I mean.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
It sounds very scientific, by the way.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
Well, I also what I find Such a dick.
I have stayed on sometraditional psychiatry forums
that I was on when I was inresidency, like the APAs and all
that, oh yeah, so I stay inthem because I love reading, I
love watching Secret, secret, um, but uh, oh, I just almost I
think I forgot what I was saying.
It's up to do with themedication.

Speaker 1 (48:28):
Oh, I lost it, I think maybe, maybe it was, maybe
it was about chemical imbalancetheory and how, if that
orientation is what psychiatryis hinged on and that has been I
know what it is.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
They're all scared shitless, about AI taking their
jobs.

Speaker 3 (48:46):
Well, well, I would be too.
It's so not scientific.
It is so not scientific.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
AI can certainly do what an average psychiatrist is
doing, certainly yeah.
And every time that I hear that, too, I'm always like I have
job security.
I know that AI can't do what Ido.
What I do is complicated.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
It's individualized.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
Integrate the spiritual and the energetic and
all this stuff.
That's not AI.
And to hold the space, which Ithink the most important thing I
even do in my practice is justto hold this safe.
I know you guys would probablyagree with Sarah, but it's like
just holding this safe,non-judgmental space.
Ai can't do that, so my jobsecurity is okay.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
Oh my gosh, that's a crazy.
That's when you say that, thatstatement, I'm like that's
totally doable.
I mean like the idea of thatactually happening.
And to kind of go back toTerry's like sarcastic comment,
but like how non-scientificright this process is.
I mean we're not having I didnot have some brain scan done of
my brain to show that, like theserotonin, you know receptors

(49:52):
were not activating in the waythat they need to right, like
that wasn't all done right soFor all of these people that
have ADHD and I'm like prove it.

Speaker 3 (50:01):
prove it it's a neurological condition, then
prove it every single timebefore you prescribe.
Prove it.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
But we had to ask that question because her and I
have talked so much about thisand we're like we're trying to
understand right, because you'realways trying to take truths in
all the sides, right, that'sthe whole point is getting
curious about everything, and sowe were sitting in this one
night going what would theorientation be then for a
psychiatrist?
What is that, that, that beliefsystem?
How could it be hinged onsomething that's been disproved?

(50:31):
How like how can it keep going?
What are we missing, kendra?

Speaker 2 (50:37):
Well, actually so I so one of my viral videos was
when that big umbrella studycame out about the chemical
imbalance, and I actually made avideo where I apologized, too.
I'm sorry for every patientthat I ever said had a chemical
imbalance, because I did tellpeople they had chemical
imbalances and I felt sohorrible, even though I knew

(51:00):
later on that it wasn't true.
but then to have this paper comeout and say it was awesome, but
going back to me stalking thesetraditional psychiatry forums.
As soon as that came out I waslike, oh, I can't wait to see
what they're saying, and it wasfascinating to me.
It was just, I mean, like thepsychological things that were
going on.
They were, it was just like thegrasping at straws.

(51:20):
Well, maybe it changes thebrain structure and maybe the
growth of the neurons, and youknow so they just, they just
were grasping at straws sort oftrying to come up with any other
explanation and some wereoutright lying.
They were saying I never saidthat.
That's the thing that thatright there and I was reading a

(51:42):
bunch of things about this youcan really say that you can
really get in front of the thingand say I never said that to
anyone, then why did you keepprescribing?

Speaker 3 (51:50):
If you, if you knew, cause?
It was like, oh, we've knownthis, yeah, we've known this for
a long time, this is not newinformation.
I'm like, then why do you keepprescribing?
Yeah, that was the other thingtoo.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
Yeah, I even did a little poll on TikTok where I
said were you told before youstarted psychiatric medication?
Were you told you had achemical imbalance?
And I think it came back like95% of people.
So if 95% of people are beingtold, then where are these
doctors that are now?
Because they're all saying theydidn't say it.
So what happened?
There's a discrepancy there.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
Yeah, so so that that affirms, that affirms we aren't
missing anything.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
No Right, talk about gas.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
That is like, see, this is why we have to keep
talking about this shit, becauseit's just, it just blows my
mind Like I can't even like inour practice if we would just
basically say everything westand for is actually disproved
through research, right, like wewouldn't stand on that, we
wouldn't die on that fuckinghill anymore, we'd go find

(52:49):
another one, right?
We'd go find something elsethat actually works.
So you know, that's great.
Well, I'm glad you affirmedthat for us, because we've been
wrecking our brains on this one,kendra, trying to figure it out
, because it's like there's gotto be something else we're
missing here.
But we're almost out of time.
We've only got a couple minutesleft.

(53:10):
I'm going to ask you, kendra isthere anything that is really
good for our listeners to knowthat you didn't get the
opportunity to share today, oranything that you'd like people
to know about you?

Speaker 2 (53:24):
I don't know anything necessarily about me.
Um, yeah, I, I think I justwanted to say, since the topic
here is gaslighting, I justwanted to.
I wanted to just like againlike apologize to anybody.
If anybody sees this and theywere my patient from many, many
years ago before I knew better Iwant to apologize and I just
want to say that you know, justhave, if you're going to see a

(53:48):
psychiatrist or a doctor, justreally do so by really really
listening to what they're sayingand listening for things that
could potentially be sort oflike gaslighting or these
different things Like be on yourthat could potentially be sort
of like gaslighting or thesedifferent things Like be on your
.
You know, just be really really, really aware and to also not
let it get to you.

(54:09):
Because that's one thing is thata lot of people accuse me of
being like hating doctors andhating psychiatrists, and I
don't hate doctors andpsychiatrists.
I do think that they are doinga horrible job often, but I also
don't blame them necessarilybecause they just are.
They went through the sametraining that I had.
They know what they know, youknow, um, but unfortunately it's
, it's going to happen andyou're going to get

(54:30):
misinformation, you're going toso, um, and you're going to be
gaslit if you present the otherany information that is
contradictory to what they'resaying.
And cause they always ask methat people always say should I
just bring all the studies thatyou talk about to my
psychiatrist?
And I say I mean you can?
I don't, but I can't guaranteewhat's going to happen, you know

(54:50):
because how they're going to bereceptive to it, but to just I
just want people to know to justlike keep doing it anyway.
And it's not your fault, youknow, and it's just.
This is the way the system isand it's not even really their
fault, it's just.

Speaker 1 (55:07):
this is what the broken system is happening.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, awesome.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
Well, thank you.
Thank you, Terry, do you haveanything else, or should we wrap
up here?

Speaker 3 (55:12):
Let's go ahead and wrap up.
I'm afraid if I say we'll, cutout again.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
See how far you can get in the next 10 seconds in
the wrap up here.
I'm going to give it to you.
If you can't do it, I'll do itfor you.
Do it please.
All right, everybody, we'regoing to close up today.
Thank you for listening to us.
You are tuning in here to theGaslit Truth podcast.
You can find us anywhere thatyou go to your favorite podcast
Apple, Spotify Remember, we'reon all the socials and please

(55:37):
like, subscribe, do all thethings.
And we want to say thank you toDr Kendra Campbell for being on
this episode.
For us, it's very validating tohave you here and it's great
that we can all share the spacetogether.
So thank you, Kendra.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
Thank you guys so much.
It was an honor and joy to behere.
Thank you.

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