May 20, 2025 • 54 mins
⚠️ Ready to stop your psych meds? Don’t make a move until you’ve heard this.
In this powerful episode of The Gaslit Truth Podcast, Deprescribing Consultants Dr. Teralyn and Jenn reveal the science-backed truth behind what your brain really needs before tapering off psychiatric medications.
💥 Spoiler: It’s not just about cutting pills.
It’s about rebuilding what meds may have depleted — your neurotransmitters, your nutrient stores, your resilience.
You’ll learn:
Why amino acids and protein are essential for brain health
The 4 pillars of tapering prep: Nutrition, Sleep, Movement, Mindfulness
How psychiatric meds deplete nutrients, harm your gut, and impact gray matter
Why HIIT may be hurting more than helping
What to do during the crucial “90-day warm-up” phase
🎧 Whether you’re considering tapering, already in the process, or supporting someone who is — this episode is for you.
⚠️ BUCKLE UP FOR SOME BASIC BULLSH*T YOU’VE BEEN SOLD:
You’ve been told nutrition doesn’t matter during a med taper?
WRONG.
Here’s the real deal 👇
🧠 Your brain’s neurotransmitters?
They’re made from amino acids.
Amino acids come from protein.
No protein = Broken Neurotransmitter Pathways = Brain chaos during your taper.
Read. That. Again.
💥 It’s that simple — and that serious.
Join Deprescribing Consultants Terri and Jenn, hosts of The Gaslit Truth Podcast, as they rip apart myths and break down real brain science in everyday language — so you can finally understand what your body needs to come off meds safely.
Have you been told you'll need antidepressants forever? That narrative might be one of the biggest gaslights in modern mental healthcare. As we reveal in this eye-opening first episode of our two-part series, successfully tapering off psychiatric medications requires something most doctors never mention: preparation.
The journey to medication freedom begins long before you cut your first pill. We call it the "90-day warmup" – a comprehensive approach to strengthening your brain health through four essential pillars: nutrition, sleep, movement, and meditation. This isn't about perfection but progress; getting what we playfully call "a C on the assignment" is enough to make a substantial difference in your tapering experience.
Psychiatric medications create profound changes in
Are you tired of being gaslit and want to DEEP THROAT some more truth? We want to hear from you! Message us your gaslit stories at thegaslittruthpodcast@gmail.com
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Dr. Teralyn:
Therapist Jenn:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (00:00):
It's fine.
It's fine.
You've been gaslit intobelieving that you will be on
your antidepressants forever.
This is a two-part episode, sothis is part one and we are
talking about how to taper yourmedications.
We are your whistleblowingshrinks, Dr Tara Lynn and
therapist Jen, and this is theGaslit Truth Podcast.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (00:22):
It is.
And you know here's the coolthing about this is, yes, we're
therapists, right, but we arealso deprescribers.
So, we consult with people onthis exact topic that we are
going to be talking about inthis two-part series, because we
actually have a littleknowledge on this.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (00:41):
A little bit, and I want to bring in this too.
I've been getting some phonecalls lately about people who
have done deprescribing andtheir brains still don't feel
healthy.
So this might be helpful forthat group of people as well,
and Jen and I work with brainhealth as well, so don't feel
like if you've already tapered,that you can't work with us
(01:02):
because you can.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (01:03):
Yes, you can.
There's still maintenance thatyou can do.
And hey, there's that bitch ofthat thing called protracted
withdrawal.
Yes, doesn't do us any favorsfor months, or sometimes even
years after discontinuing apsych med and you have to
continue to support your brain.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (01:20):
So yes, so I feel like this episode is going
to be good for people beforethey taper and after, if you
haven't already done this typeof work.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (01:28):
So yeah, cause they're similar.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (01:30):
Yeah, yeah, they're very similar.
So this is the episode on whatto do before you taper.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (01:37):
Yeah, yeah.
And this part is, um, I think,sometimes difficult for people
to wrap their brain around,because a taper should just be
well, let's start tapering Rightand now.
Not that you can't do that, allright, you know it is an option
.
Okay For some people.
I would rather have people liketaper hyperbolically and safely
(02:00):
and do it that way even if youdon't have all the things dialed
in first, versus just followingsome of the advice I'm trying
to think about my headspace whenI was doing it.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (02:12):
I think this might be a headspace of a lot of
people.
You finally get to a spacewhere you're like now is the
time I'm going to do it, I don'twant to get another
prescription, and so today isthe day, or tomorrow or Monday
or whatever it is.
Because you get to that spotand then you try and then it
goes haywire and then you losehope and the whole thing starts
(02:35):
all over again.
So Jen and I are here to tellyou that you need a plan, a
three-month warmup, if you will.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (02:43):
Yes, for sure, and Terry did it the
other way, right, and I have thebenefit of being able to talk
about actually doing the 90 daywarmup um a few months worth of
lifestyle shit.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (02:54):
Yeah, the 90 day warmup didn't exist when I
was, uh, on medication.
Uh, so I did the cold Turkey.
Uh, I did the cold turkey.
I did the cold turkey, which Iwould never, ever suggest to
anyone, and if you've ever triedit, you know why.
Even if you've missed a coupleof days, you probably understand
(03:16):
why not.
But this was at a time where Ididn't know what I knew and all
this stuff about tapering didn'texist, and so I'm glad that it
exists now, and I'm glad that itexists now, and I'm glad that
Jen and I are here to talk aboutit.
So, if you are consideringtaping your medication, if
you're even just curious aboutit, like you're like
contemplating, should I,shouldn't I?
You know, this might help youto understand what it might take
(03:40):
.
And this isn't to give you liketake, and this isn't to give
you like, oh, this is going totake forever and so long, but
the best plan is a well-executedand developed plan.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (03:59):
Yeah, it's one that focuses more on
lifestyle and actually shiftingyour lifestyle.
It kind of reminds me of thediscussion we had about New
Year's resolutions right and howwe have these little short-term
goals right, but let's forgetthat let's actually change our
lifestyle, because going througha medication taper pre, during
and post for it to be the mosteffective and most successful,
it is going to require somelifestyle changes.
(04:20):
And people don't like to hearthat and I'm not saying across
the board this is for everybody.
But the most effective way tostart tapering is to dial your
lifestyle in for a few monthsprior to actually tapering.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (04:32):
But I will say even if you have your lifestyle
or you believe that yourlifestyle is relatively dialed
in and some people it really isthere still are a lot of pieces
that you have to plan for aheadof time.
So I'm still going to stick bythat three-month warm-up, no
matter where you are in yourlifestyle.
And I also want to tell youthat, because of things like
(04:55):
diet, culture and all that weget into this all-or-nothing
space that if I can't do it 100%right, that I'm not going to do
it at all, do it 100% right,that I'm not going to do it at
all.
And I want to let you know that, when it comes to these
lifestyle changes, I tell people, if you get a good C like a 70%
to 75% on this assignment,you're going to be doing well.
So, yeah, so if you get a C, onthe assignment you're going to
(05:17):
do well.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (05:20):
Sounds like my undergrad.
Yeah, I mean, that sounds C'sget degrees and guess what C's
are going to get you through ataper, damn it.
So you'll be fine, Like here wego.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (05:29):
I love it.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (05:30):
Here we go.
And I actually think, Terry, aswe start this off.
We need to talk first aboutsomething that you have shared
with me, that I share with allof my clients.
That, I think, is one of thebest tips for starting a taper,
and prior to tapering is aboutand this goes beyond tapering
(05:50):
too but the idea of how you giveyourself grace within this when
you just said, caesar, okay,some days are good, some are
better some are best and someare just good enough.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (06:01):
Good enough Yep.
The good, better, best, goodenough plan is how I live my
life.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (06:08):
It's one of the best pieces of advice
and I give it to all my clients,especially my tapering clients.
You're going to have to giveyourself some grace through this
process, because it's not easy.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (06:19):
I do feel like I need to shout out to my
friend, marsha, who was actuallythe one that introduced me to
the good, better, best, goodenough idea years ago, and that
has just stuck with me becauseit's brilliant and it's
beautiful and it makes a lot ofsense.
So I love to share that with asmany people that will listen.
So, all right, with that inmind, I have my.
(06:41):
We're going to go from low tonumber one, um, and I don't know
, jen, did you write stuff downor did you?
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (06:48):
not, I didn't write down shit.
Look at this.
I got no notes.
Sounds good.
It's in my melon, you know.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (06:53):
So this is this is my chance to do a little
shameless self-promotion for mybook, because this book is
really the three month warmup.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (07:00):
It is.
I was hoping you were going tosay that this is how much show
prep we do.
I was.
I was like I hope she talksabout this, because this is what
we're talking about.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (07:16):
This is literally so.
My book your Best Brain you canfind it on Amazon, but it is
literally written out to helpyou with your brain, but it is a
three-month warm-up, so eachsection in this book is a pillar
of mental health that Jen and Italk about in the four pillars
of mental health, which isnutrition, sleep, movement and
meditation, ie stress management.
So there's more in the bookthan that, but those are the big
(07:38):
four pillars that Jen wastalking about when she said you
need to dial in your lifestyle,because there's more to
lifestyle than just eating and Ithink people like to focus in
on it's just food.
It's just food.
It's not just food.
There's many parts, or at leastfour, that we've identified as
your big pillars of mentalhealth, and so that is
(07:59):
identified in the book.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (08:01):
So we don't do that.
$15.99 on Amazon, guys, noepisodes, you just buy Terry's
book.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (08:06):
Just buy the book and move along.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (08:10):
I like that.
All right, we'll give out somefree advice for two episodes.
How's that sound Sure?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (08:16):
But I look at the four pillars and so if
you're really thinking about iteat, sleep, move, meditate are
the four pillars?
I ask people to kind ofevaluate where they believe they
are zero to 10, 10 being thebest.
Where are you in these pillars?
And that gives you some goodguidance on which ones are your
weakest pillars and which onesare your strongest.
(08:36):
And if we're looking to get a70 on that, you want a seven.
So what does a seven look likein these pillars for you?
What does a six look like?
What does an eight look like?
That type of thing.
So I think that's an importantpiece of this, so you know where
you are and you know where youwant to be and what that might
look like in each pillar.
Supplementation can be a keypart in your plan and when you
(08:58):
go on some of these Facebooksites, there's a little bit of
conflicting information.
Like some people are like don'tdo any supplements, Just let
your brain heal.
I'm like, I don't know aboutthat, I'm conflicted.
I'd like to know what you thinkabout that, Jen, because I know
(09:19):
that I've started you with somesupplements and things like
that and I wonder if you feellike it was valuable.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (09:25):
Yeah, yeah, now I do, and I don't
disagree with you.
We get that, and actually we'vehad guests on the show that
have gotten off meds and didn'tuse any supplements either.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (09:35):
Right.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (09:36):
Yeah, and that's fine.
I mean, I think that this is avery individualized choice.
Now, for me it was somethingthat was important, based off a
lot of.
I mean, I did functionaltesting before I started this
guys.
So functional medicine cameinto play and my serotonin, my
dopamine levels, norepinephrine,epinephrine, gamma glutamate
all these were tested right.
(09:57):
We did some hormone testing soI had that there as some
evidence to go.
Oh, this is why this could behappening.
My dopamine pathway is shitbecause my norepinephrine isn't
converting to epinephrine,because I'm not producing any
adrenaline, because I don't havethat.
My cortisol outputs were shitwhen I woke up and there's not a
(10:19):
nice pretty little curve that'sstarting at the top and going
down during the day.
For me, that curve was at thebottom when I woke up.
already, curve that's startingat the top and going down during
the day for me that curve wasat the bottom when I woke up
already, so for me it washelpful and I brought in amino
acids.
So amino acids are somethingthat you want to work with
somebody who understands theseand who can actually talk about
them.
Amino acids can be boughtanywhere, guys.
(10:40):
I mean you can buy them atWalgreens, you can go get them
on like professional websites,right, like we have a website.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (10:45):
Your gym rats are all using amino acids.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (10:47):
Yeah, they're in as flip around your
protein powder, Any kind ofprotein powders that you have.
Flip them over.
You're going to see L-tyrosinein there.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (10:55):
I'm sorry.
If you eat turkey and chicken,you're going to see amino acids.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (10:59):
You're going to see tryptophan.
You're going to see all thethings right Like they're in
there.
So there's something that youcan get from a supplement.
You also get them from food andnutrition.
What I caution people on is, ifyou're going to take
supplements, at least get someguidance from someone who
understands them, becausesupplements can be especially
amino acids they arecontraindicated with your psych
(11:22):
meds.
Some are contraindicated.
For example, I have to be verycareful with 5-HTP because that
actually has an adverse effecton the antidepressant Lexapro
that I'm taking.
Now do I not not take it?
No, actually I do, and thereare times where I do take it for
a couple months at a time and Isee how I feel on it and it
actually assists in some of thatserotonin pathway for me, how I
(11:44):
sleep a little bit better, butthen I don't always need it.
So that's the other thing toremember when we're talking
about supplements is they are asupplement.
They are not something thatoutdoes a shit lifestyle.
You cannot out supplement ashit lifestyle.
So, these are these pillarswe're going to talk about,
because if you can't getyourself dialed in in these and
(12:04):
all you think you just need isto use supplements, you're
pissing your money down thedrain.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (12:10):
Well and I do want to bring this part in is
that supplements are gettingthis wrap of like a medication
right.
Take this.
I get messages like this allthe time what can I take that's
natural, that will help me, andI'm like it doesn't work like
that.
People are looking for thatperceived quick fix in a
(12:35):
supplement, and I wish therewere one, but I like to think
about supplements as moreintuitive.
They're also intuitive for you.
I know that if I don't take anomega-3 fatty acid every day,
that my brain skips beats.
I don't know how else todescribe it.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (12:53):
I can't find words.
Word finding is gone.
If I go more than a couple ofdays without my omegas, my word
finding is gone.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (12:59):
Yes, that's what it is for me too.
It skips and whatever.
So I know that omega-3 fattyacids are good for me.
Should I be eating more fish?
Probably you know, but I do ahigher dose of omega-3 fatty
acid Now in the wintertime myhusband takes 5-HTP because he's
an ornery crab ass in thewinter and so I know right, a
little 5-HTP helps him out a lot.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (13:22):
We got all the women listening going oh
my God, I got to buy a babyright now for my husband.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (13:25):
Okay, we're going to put it in stock, but
that's.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (13:29):
It is very you're right, it's very
individualized.
So I guess, when it comes tothis piece about supplements,
which an amino acid.
We could do a whole episode onthat too.
I know we should.
Actually, this is a good idea,right?
It is very individualized andit is helpful to either work
with someone who understandsaminos okay or start doing some
(13:50):
research on your own.
It is very easy to go onlineand look up what medications are
contraindicated with L-tyrosineand you can look that up.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (14:00):
I'll give you a good website.
People, if you're listening,just go to drugscom.
Like drugscom will actuallyhelp you do two things.
They will tell you about thedrugs that you're taking, how
they're interacting with eachother.
You can also put in somesupplements.
They don't have a lot ofsupplements on there, but I
believe you can put in somesupplements on there too, so
that's a really good resourcefor people.
(14:21):
But, yeah, I've spent the last Idon't know how 10 years
figuring out amino acids.
It was the very first thingthat I looked at for people.
So now we can enter in some ofthe functional medicine labs and
then also micronutrient labs.
You can get at your doctor'soffice so that you can actually
see what other nutrients aremissing, because we know, in
(14:45):
order for an amino acid to turninto a neurotransmitter, you
need certain nutrients in place,like your B vitamins, your
vitamin C, your vitamin D, whichnobody looks at.
These things need to be thereand they need to be at
substantial levels.
Now, then, I mean we can godown this whole rabbit hole.
Maybe we should in a whole bigepisode, but not today, okay.
(15:06):
Yeah, we can't start talkingabout nutrient depletions,
because, my God this is like thedrain you go down this rabbit
hole and then pretty soonespecially if you don't know
what you're doing or your personyou're working with doesn't
know you're going to be on 20different supplements and you're
not going to know which one ishelpful, which one is not, and
(15:28):
eventually it's like a funnelYou're going to funnel it down
to the ones that you believe arethe most helpful.
When I say you believe it's theones that you intuitively know
are the ones that you need,right, and that again, jen, and
I talk about this like regainingyour sense of personal agency,
like you figure out what youwant.
When I lay out a plan tosomebody, I give them the
(15:49):
kitchen sink, like I give themthe whole thing, and then in the
end, I ask every single onewhere do you want to start?
What makes sense for you tobegin?
How many supplements would youlike to begin with?
What doesn't feel overwhelmingto you?
And then I'll guide them into,like their top three or your top
five, you know so, cause we cango on and on and on with
(16:12):
supplements, you know.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (16:19):
We could , we could, but in general, I
think it kind of takes us intothe next, this pillar of overall
.
What are we putting in?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (16:22):
our mouth.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (16:23):
Okay, we're talking nutrition as as
one of these pillars and I thinkone of the I mean Terry, and I
take a pretty, pretty basic.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (16:32):
I'm going to say this is pretty basic
approach Like we will have, Iwill have people and I will say
to them.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (16:37):
I'm like people pay me a shit ton of
money to talk to them aboutwhat's going in their mouth, and
there are some basic premisesthat are very, very important
overall when it comes tonutrition, and I think we can
hit sugars, caffeines, proteins,Boom boom, boom.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (16:56):
Yeah, that's about it.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (16:57):
Mine's decaf and it says chill, chill,
it looks like hill.
Oh, I see the C is the handle.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (17:02):
That's really cute, mine's half decaf, half
regular today, but you know, butthat's what it is.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (17:08):
We are talking about some basic stuff.
So obviously in each of thesepillars today we're not going to
dive too far into it.
But correct me if I'm wrong,terri.
Those are a start for reallylooking at like proteins, sugars
, caffeine, yeah.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (17:23):
Yep Water and water and water and.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (17:25):
I think something for and yes, you're
right water, something foreverybody to know, is a very
simple.
Again, I say this I got peoplepay me so much to say this to
them, but I wouldn't, and Ididn't know this either, right,
until, and it's not that hard.
But okay, guys ready,neurotransmitters, okay, that
are in our brain, buckle upbecause this is the news.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (17:46):
Put your seatbelt on right.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (17:48):
Put your seatbelt on, Put your fucking
belt on Neurotransmitters thatare in our brain.
Right, these are these dopamine, serotonin, gaba, which is
actually a neurotransmitter andan amino.
But that's okay, we won't gothere.
These things, right?
Okay, all these mainneurotransmitter pathways.
They are made from amino acids.
All right, amino acids must beobtained.
(18:10):
They are derived from proteinthat you eat.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (18:15):
That's it.
That's your basic bullshit.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (18:18):
I mean, that's literally.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (18:19):
So this is one of those things where I go.
So how in the world does it notmake sense to focus in a little
bit on your diet In the mentalhealth world if we're so worried
about brain health and all thisstuff like diet and even
protein helps stabilize bloodsugar, which is hugely
implicated.
So I tell people, if you donothing else, if you do nothing
(18:42):
else, improve your proteinintake.
That's it.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (18:46):
Yes, there's more, and here's where
here's where Terry's like good,better, best, better enough,
comes in, right, because thereare really like best sources of
protein right, you've got your,your, your, really super great
lean proteins.
Whether you're eating like, say, a chicken breast right, that's
grilled, okay, like somethingin that realm, right, that's
(19:07):
like our best category.
Our better category might bemaking a shake, okay, like a
protein shake, for example.
Maybe putting a little proteinpowder in it, perhaps, right, or
natural sources of protein,okay, in a shake.
Then you have some days thatare just good and the best you
(19:28):
can do is go grab one of thosedamn chocolate protein bars out
of your cabinet, okay, and scarfthat down, because I don't have
time throughout the day tocontinue to introduce a best
protein and that's it.
You can have levels of this,right.
You may have days where you'resnacking every three, four hours
(19:51):
and what you're eating inbetween is a good source of
protein.
Maybe it's a healthy nut, maybeyou've got your walnuts, maybe
you've got your cashews, yourmacadamias, your almonds right,
that might be a good.
Yes, I'm doing that every fewhours and putting a protein in
my body, and then it may be.
All I can do today is dump someprotein powder in a shake,
(20:11):
shake it up and go.
That's my protein, or?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (20:13):
even one of those nasty ass ready-made
protein shakes.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (20:17):
You know , I mean that would be a good
enough thing.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (20:20):
They are nasty ass not the best, but they're
going to do the job.
They are good enough when youneed good enough, but they're
going to do the job.
They are good enough when youneed good enough.
So this is kind of the leewaythat you need to give yourself
and all those options good,better, best, good enough could
occur in a single day, and therecould be a whole day of good
enough.
(20:40):
There could be a whole day ofbest, but some days they occur
all throughout.
But those are your basic thingsEat more fruits, vegetables and
protein period.
It was really interesting.
I just want to bring in alittle thing, because I took a
class and we had to put in.
It was like a calculator oflike the vitamins and minerals
(21:02):
that we ate in a day.
So you put in your food and itspits out here's the vitamins,
here's all the nutrients, notjust calories, but it's all the
nutrients that you've now eatenin a day.
And then you were to put in onewhole fruit or one whole
vegetable.
So you put in the sameinformation, but then you add a
fruit or a vegetable and see howit changes.
(21:24):
And I thought I put in likepizza and all this crap, a bunch
of shit food, because there aredays that I eat a bunch of shit
food.
And then I go in my mind I'mlike, what difference does it
make if I eat an apple?
Now I've already trashed thewhole day and I will tell you it
makes a huge difference.
So adding in an apple changedthe entire profile.
(21:45):
So don't ever think that ifyou're having a quote, unquote
bad food day that eating a wholefruit or vegetable or protein
source won't help you, becauseit will, it'll change the whole
profile for the day.
So that might be something foryou guys to think about in your
nutrition journey.
And secondarily I just wantedto bring this in this nutrition
(22:07):
journey is not about weight loss, so get that right out of your
brain.
This is about brain health.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (22:14):
That's what I was just going to say the
idea of eating a protein everyfew hours.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (22:23):
That is what.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (22:23):
I talk about is bringing a protein in,
right, and every few hours,because I'll have a lot of
people that and I'm not we'renot sitting here bashing fasting
either.
Okay, there's a whole wholenother plethora of that too,
which, okay, we're talking aboutstrictly from.
I'm trying to get ready, mybody ready to taper.
I am trying to support my brainright now and what it needs.
(22:44):
Okay, part of that iscontinuing to teach yourself to
eat more frequently and when youeat, what to choose.
That could be better for you.
So, if you can bring inproteins every few hours, bring
in fresh fruits or veggies orsomething that's higher in fiber
or some good vitamins to it,right, that is going to help
prepare you and prepare yourbrain.
(23:05):
Because here's the deal.
This is another episode, butquick tidbit of information All
those psych meds you guys aretaking, they deplete the shit
out of certain nutrients.
Your B vitamins are down thetank.
Your folic acid is down thetank.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (23:17):
They also ruin your gut health.
So if your gut health is notstrong, you're not absorbing the
things that you're taking in,so they do a lot of damage, you
know and they change up, theychange the talk that happens
from the brain to the gut.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (23:35):
Right, we know that a good chunk of our
serotonin is created in the gut.
So all of you who are takingSSRIs, SNRIs, I should say even
any of the meds, cause they,they all, deplete all of these
areas right, You're starting totell serotonin hey, guess what?
You're downregulated.
That's starting to tell the gutguess what?
(23:55):
We're not producing as much ofthis, the gut is going to react.
They talk back and forth, soit's just something to think
about too.
Our gut health is not in agreat space and the nutrients
are being depleted.
So one of those things when itcomes to food is let's start to
bring in food and or nutrientsfrom food to help replenish some
of what we lost.
Are we going to get all of it?
(24:16):
No, because you only get asmuch as your gut health is going
to allow you to have.
But, guys, it's a start.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (24:22):
It's a start to looking at food differently.
People say you are what you eat, and I think People say you are
what you eat, and I think it'smore, you are what you absorb.
Um, so you gotta think aboutthat, but they're, they both
work hand in hand, so all right.
So we're not going to do a deepdive into sleep, move and
meditate because we're going torun out of time.
Um.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (24:42):
I would, I would like to huh yeah, we,
we could do a little, but itcan't be super deep, right?
Yeah?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (24:48):
Well, because I could talk about sleep all day
long, because it's another hugefactor in people's lives is
sleep.
If you think you can run off offour or five hours, you
actually can't.
That's usually probably acortisol issue that you're
having, but you think that youcan run off of it, so anyway.
(25:08):
So there's a lot, a lot ofsleep, and sleep has to do with
how you prepare your body tofall asleep, your environment
and your body and your brain tosleep, and if you roll back
through, even things likecaffeine are going to negatively
impact your sleep.
I did a little thing on thehalf-life of caffeine and I was
shocked that if you drink a cupof caffeine at 8 am one day, the
(25:32):
next day it's still in yoursystem at 8 am, so it never goes
away.
So if you're constantly drinkingcaffeinated beverages and we're
not just talking about coffee,because there's caffeinated
beverages in everything, likeall your energy drinks and all
those things we tend to leaveout and, by the way, when we
think about a cup of coffeewe're not talking about you know
(25:53):
, this is not a cup of coffee.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (25:55):
this giant mug, this tiny little guy
right here.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (25:59):
Is a cup of coffee.
What I'm showing would be twocups of coffee actually.
So, yes, so you know, get realon what you're, what you're
starting to pay it, yeah, payattention to caffeine sources.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (26:11):
Um, I actually just took my uh
daughter earlier today um tothis, really great, great, great
, great.
Like healthy.
It is very, very, very healthy.
Um, like coffee shop, but theydon't do coffee, it's all teas,
Okay, and things like that andwhat.
What she was asking me about,right, and this is where we
start to talk about caffeine, islike the the, you know moderate
(26:33):
size.
They actually write out howmany milligrams of caffeine are
in it, and what people don'trealize is there is caffeine in
tea, right, and so these are allteas that they serve, but
there's 190 milligrams ofcaffeine in what she ordered
this morning, and so we'retalking about that, right,
Because you know, like our poorkids and my whole house has to
(26:53):
deal with my brain health likenerd that I go on, right,
they're like just shut up, mom,just let me have my tea and shut
up, right.
But when we think aboutcaffeine, this is sleep.
So sleep is also tied to yourcaffeine, to your sugars, right,
and to your proteins, Okay.
So it's something to thinkabout when it comes to,
obviously, what you put in yourmouth and how it can impact
(27:15):
sleep.
So think about that decreasingcaffeine intake to help with
sleep, not having any caffeineafter you know early mid morning
, early morning nothing.
It's 10, 11 am.
I'm done.
That's it.
No more caffeine throughout therest of the day.
Also, I got to touch on thisquick before we move on to the
next pillar.
Terry, you just said somethingthat I think is important, and
(27:37):
it's prepping the brain and thebody for sleeping at nighttime.
Do you have a routine?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (27:45):
I think everybody has a routine.
Is the routine good?
Probably not.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (27:51):
Well, that's what I'm asking, is what
your routine is, because I thinkif we have some ideas we can
give people for, like what issuper helpful for the healthy
routine that helps prep thebrain and body for sleep.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (28:01):
I will tell you what is not healthy for me
is probably an easier thing.
So will tell you what is nothealthy for me is probably an
easier thing.
So, um well, I always turn myheat down to 63 at night, so the
whole house is 63 degrees.
Um, I do have a ceiling fan onwhich my husband would love for
it to break.
Um but then I would just get abigger one.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (28:19):
So industrial big ass fan, barn fan
, barn fan a barn fan fan.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (28:27):
That would be next on the list.
I used to use a lot ofessential oils in the bedroom
when I was having troublesleeping, because your sense of
smell can pick that up and notonly can they help you relax,
but then they start associating.
That smell means sleep.
So that's important to yourbody, associates certain things,
(28:49):
so I don't put pajamas on andthen go watch TV.
I put pajamas on and I go tobed.
We don't have a televisiongoing in our bedroom.
Those things have changedthroughout the years for us,
because that was a huge argumentwith the television.
Now are there nights that I getstuck on my phone, 100%.
(29:11):
Yeah you do, yeah, and so I'mjust calling myself out on that
and I will say those are thenights that I do not sleep well.
Usually it has to do withsomething going on on TikTok or
social media or something that Ijust feel like I need to be
part of, so anyway, but I don'tstay up to like one in the
morning doing that.
It would be like maybe 30minutes or something, maybe an
(29:33):
hour, but I've never reallystayed.
I know people that stay up toone, two in the morning just
scrolling, and I'm like thatneeds to stop.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (29:41):
So scrolling is going to scrolling
needs to stop.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (29:43):
So if you can't do it, I don't use my
phone for my alarm.
I do have an, alexa, that I.
I said that because I didn'twant her to hear me.
I'm not going to say your name,mine will go off too.
Yeah, anyway, I use that for myalarm.
I don't use my phone.
So I try not to use my phonefor anything except charging in
the bedroom and, like I said, Ido get stuck on social media
(30:08):
sometimes.
So if you're trying to, if youknow that your sleep is bad,
like, these are some of thethings that you need to stop
doing, and you know, then I dothe regular brush my teeth, go
to the bathroom, put on mypajamas and go to bed, like so
we all have natural things thatwe do.
It's just a matter ofidentifying if they are good or
serving us well or not, you know.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (30:28):
And some people can.
I have a lot of discussion whenI talk sleep with people we
talk about like electronics andthe blue light that comes from
electronics right and we willhave a discussion about what
that actually does when it goesthrough the eye.
What centers of the brain rightit activates to say, hey, guess
what, it's not sleepy nighttime.
Now for some people they can dothat for a little bit and they
(30:49):
are able to manage sleep Okay.
For some they can't.
So this has to be veryindividualized.
I thought I had sleep dialed in, but I didn't until I started
doing it differently.
For me it turned into a routinethat's often included, like
taking a hot bath with, likesome Epsom salts, which
(31:11):
sometimes I do that, especiallyon like a Sunday night.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (31:14):
I do that on Sunday night because I get the
Sunday night windups beforeMonday.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (31:17):
Yes, the freaking Monday Sunday night
already, so that's a great idea.
Build that into your routine.
Sit in the bath, put some Epsomsalts in there.
You can put a little essentialoil in there.
Epsom salt actually converts tomagnesium when it disintegrates
into the water.
Guys, and magnesium is superhelpful I mean not only for like
700 different functions of thebody, but also to help.
(31:38):
Slow it's going to slow.
It's like it's your brake pedal.
It's going to slow you guysdown right.
So make that part of yourroutine.
I also use a lot of oils.
Instead of like putting lotionon my body, I started to use
really good, clean oil and Iwould have.
I put body oil on and thatsmell right is triggering in my
brain.
(31:58):
Here we go, it's time to slowdown, right, so I've got
eucalyptus in there.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (32:04):
Well, I want to go back to like.
I think most people tend to doa really good job of creating a
sleep routine for their baby andtheir toddlers and things like
that, which might include, likeI remember putting lotion on the
kids before I put their PJs on,and reading them a book and
giving them their bottles andyou know all these things.
(32:25):
But we don't do the same thingfor ourselves and I think that's
a really good comparisonreading them a book and giving
them their bottles, and you knowall these things, but we don't
do the same thing for ourselves.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (32:30):
Yeah, imagine that.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (32:30):
Yeah.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (32:30):
That's a really good comparison, Terri.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (32:33):
Yeah, because I think that we do that a lot
for our kids.
But this is the plight of themom, right, like we do a lot of
things that are good for ourkids that we don't do for
ourselves.
But if you think about that,you do that for a reason, so
that they associate all thesethings with winding down and
getting some rest, and we needto do the same thing for
ourselves.
(32:53):
So, yeah, the other thing Iwant to bring up with sleep is
just two little things sugarbefore bed and alcohol before
bed.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (33:01):
I've got to go away.
That's when I don't sleep iswhen I have a bowl of ice cream
before bed.
Okay, that's when I don't sleepwell.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (33:08):
I can fall asleep.
So here's what happens when youeat sugary things before bed.
You'll be waking up at themiddle of the night probably, or
waking up too early.
I call it getting a low levelof sleep, because you never dive
into deep sleep if you arehypoglycemic throughout the
night.
So instead opt for a proteinsnack.
(33:29):
But alcohol before bed reallydestroys your sleep.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (33:34):
You might think it doesn't.
Well, that's because it helpsyou fall asleep.
I sleep so good when I drink.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (33:39):
Yep, it helps you fall asleep.
Yeah, but it disrupts everysleep cycle throughout the night
and you're not rested.
But it disrupts every sleepcycle throughout the night and
you are not rested, which is notgoing to help your mental
well-being in the morning or anyof that day Overall guys.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (33:54):
I mean, those two things are huge sugar
and alcohol.
Your body, essentially right,you're going to crash once that
process is through your body,right?
And when that happens, right,your adrenals are going to start
to kick in.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (34:09):
Well, your adrenaline actually kicks off.
Your adrenaline goes and nowyou're awake and your brain
doesn't care if it's fucking twoo'clock in the morning, it's
going to wake you up.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (34:19):
So for those of you who have those
little smartwatches which I donot, because I'm an old soul in
that, but I don't sleep- withelectronics on my body, yeah,
and it's a way to test it right.
So I'll have clients that willdo that and they will say to me
I will eat like shit a couplenights in a row and it measures
your sleep cycles.
Try doing that without eatingthat.
Eat a high-protein snack, havea bowl of cottage cheese or
something before you go to bedEven a couple of bites, yeah.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (34:49):
Yeah, it's kind of a joke around my house,
because it'll be like eighto'clock on a Saturday night and
I'll look at Steve and I'll belike I'd really like some ice
cream.
Oh, let's go, let's go get someice cream.
Yeah, let's go get some icecream.
And then he'll look at me andhe'll go are you sure, are you
sure?
And I'm like, no, I'm not sure,but I really want some.
Then we'll go get it.
And it's that moment where yougo, I'm going to fuck up my
(35:12):
sleep tonight, that's for damnsure.
But you know what you're doingnow.
You consciously know whatyou're in for.
And then you weigh the risk andthe benefit suddenly and you're
like, eh, let's just go get theice cream.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (35:24):
So then that moves us actually a little
bit, because part of my sleeproutine is also to do some
meditation.
So that kind of moves us intothe next pillar as I might just
transition us right into itwhich is looking at mindfulness,
meditation exercises, things wecan do to reduce stress,
because you do not have to beBuddha, you do not have to be a
yogi.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (35:54):
You do not have to be an expert in this to
bring some like stress reductionor and or just basic
mindfulness techniques.
So this was brought up as aconversation that I had this
week too, of somebody who didn'twant to meditate because they
felt it was against theirreligious beliefs.
And I'm like, well, you can sitand you could do some deep
breathing which is meditative,and even meditation like I
learned to meditate withBuddhist monks.
Long story not going to getinto it, but anyway, it wasn't
(36:18):
anything that I thought it wasgoing to be Okay, it wasn't.
There was a little bit of ritualin the beginning and the end
which I don't do was justlearning how to breathe and sit
and learning how to control yourthoughts.
Literally, when your thoughtgoes away, you bring it back to
(36:41):
the breath and to the countingof the breath.
That was it, and I'm ridiculous.
I'm like this is easy peasy.
So I went up to them later.
I'm like well, so what's thenext step?
What's the next thing that I'msupposed to be learning here?
And they looked at me and theysaid people practice this for a
lifetime and I was like God damnit.
I wanted the certificate.
I wanted to be done.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (36:59):
Where's Susie Amendola here when we need
her to go?
Damn it, terry Come on?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (37:03):
Exactly Right.
But meditation seems easy.
It's not as easy as you think.
Some people like guidedmeditation.
I don't like that, because I'vegot enough going on in my brain
so I prefer to just guidemyself and just do the breathing
and the counting, and for methat works.
Again, this is one of thosethings what works for you, and
(37:27):
it doesn't have to be aspiritually based thing, but it
can be.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (37:32):
It absolutely can be.
For some people it is.
It absolutely can be.
For some people it is.
Add prayer in there.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (37:36):
Add affirmation, add whatever you
want or don't.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (37:40):
Part of my nighttime routine for me most
evenings is doing a body scanand I will meditate my way all
the way through the top of myhead, in each of the areas of my
body and I make sure that Iwill loosen and relax each area
from the top all the way down.
It used to be I had to go fromthe bottom up and the top down.
Right Now I don't have to doboth because I've gotten to a
(38:02):
space where, by the time I gofrom the top all the way down, I
get down to like my calves andI'm good right.
But this is also part ofsomething you can do during the
day, guys.
If you have a few minutes, youcan meditate or you can do a
mindfulness type of activity,something as simple as going
(38:22):
outside and taking off yourshoes and feeling what the grass
feels like underneath your feetand sitting for a couple
minutes and noticing it, lookingaround in your backyard that
you've been looking at for 20years and noticing something
you've never noticed before, andin letting yourself sit in it.
There is conscious meditationfor people who are, or
(38:44):
mindfulness for people who arelearning the basics of it.
It's really just about payingattention in a very particular
way and then starting to noticeyour breath and to listen to the
body.
So it doesn't have to be.
I've got to have an hour andI've got to go sit down.
I've got to have that.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (39:00):
Literally, five to seven minutes will
trigger your nervous system thatyou're not in fight or flight
anymore.
That's it Like five to sevenminutes of this type of
breathing and slowing down.
And the other thing that people, I can't meditate because I
can't shut my brain off.
That's not what it's abouteither.
So you can get rid of a lot ofthe things that you think about
meditation to not be true and goahead and figure out what works
(39:24):
for you.
So meditation, I think it'sreally important.
My mentor, dan Kalish, when hewas talking about meditation, he
meditates for hours everysingle day and I was like how,
what?
How do you even have time to?
Plus, he cycles and does allthis other stuff and I'm like
(39:45):
that's all he does, is self-careall day.
I think I don't know, but Idon't know how he does all that.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (39:49):
But I'm like I struggled to get five
minutes, can you imagine howmuch gray matter is in that
man's brain?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (39:54):
Oh yeah, I don't know.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (39:55):
It's so heavy.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (39:56):
It's probably like yeah, he probably has to
hold it up with a sling orsomething, I don't know, but
that's what we're doing.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (40:02):
We're doing, guys, is we are using.
We are using mindful awareness,right Meditation to strengthen
these neural connections, tocreate more gray matter in the
brain and the kind of shittypart it's shitty.
I just had a very longdiscussion with one of my
clients this week about this isthe unfortunate part of
psychiatric medications, andspecifically some other than
(40:26):
others more so is that they arereducing the gray matter in your
brain, which is why there areresearch links now and that
shows that their dementia islinked to long-term
antidepressant use.
This is the why.
Okay, so how do I counter this?
How do I bring something backinto play?
(40:47):
This is actually a techniquethat costs no money, that uses
very little resources other thanyour time, and you're trying to
figure out the best that worksfor you.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (40:58):
You don't even need anything fancy to wear.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (41:01):
No, you do not need any of that stuff.
That all is going to besomething that's going to help
you with this taper, in gettingthrough it, because it is very
likely that some of, dependingon how long you've been on these
drugs, that gray matter isdepleted and we know that
(41:22):
mindfulness and our next pillar,which is going to be movement.
Those are two things thatcreate gray matter in the brain
over time.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (41:27):
So we're going to move on to movement.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (41:28):
Look at my transitions today.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (41:30):
That was great , that was fantastic.
You're on point today.
Jen what happens when you don'twrite shit down, people.
That's right, that's right.
So movement is the next pillar,and I call it movement because
I hate exercise.
The word exercise implies thatyou have to go somewhere.
I feel like we live in thisweird world that the only
(41:51):
exercise that counts is if yougo to a gym of some sort.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (41:54):
I know I was in that world many, many
years.
Me too, I used to Just why myadrenals were fucked Right
Exactly.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (42:01):
Well, that's that's.
This is a really goodconversation, because you know
the HIIT workouts and all thosethings when you're in a med
taper are not going to serve youvery well at all.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (42:10):
As a matter of fact, they're going to
make this probably harder, canyou talk a little bit about that
science, terry, like withpeople, just give a little
snippet on what's actuallyhappening when you're doing the
HIIT, when you're doing theCrossFit, when you're doing the
super heavy, heavy, highintensity workout.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (42:25):
You're engaging all your stress
hormones Like you're engagingall of that, You're firing all
of that.
So if you were to look at likewe'll go back to Jen's cortisol
curve that she was talking aboutbefore you were doing HIIT and
all of that stuff, I was HIITCrossFit.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (42:42):
I was a CrossFitter multiple times a
week half marathons.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (42:47):
Well, even back in the day, when I was
training for half marathons overand over and over and over, I
would never stop not training.
It was constant and I didn'tfeel great.
But everyone said this is whatyou're supposed to do to feel
good.
But when you're stressing yourbody and you're stressing your
brain, doing all of those heavyhitting, hardcore workouts, you
(43:11):
are not restoring anything.
You're constantly just instress.
What do you have?
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (43:16):
Oh, her cortisol graph yeah.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (43:17):
So if you guys get to look at this on YouTube.
So she's showing her cortisolgraph.
The curve should be in green.
So green would be typicalnormal curve.
Her green is lower.
It's a curve.
You got a little bit of curve,but it's in the blue category,
which is a low curve, hedging onflat actually.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (43:38):
Yeah, this is where we started.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (43:40):
When you wake up in the morning, your cortisol
is supposed to be the highest.
When you go to bed, it'ssupposed to be the lowest.
So, conversely, when you wakeup in the morning, your
melatonin is supposed to be thelowest, while your cortisol is
the highest to get you to wakeup, and in the evening your
melatonin is supposed to be thehighest and cortisol the lowest.
A lot of people have this curvealmost backward, and so
(44:02):
sometimes the cortisol pops upin the evening.
So that's another thing tothink about too.
So if you're doing yourCrossFit or whatever after work
at 5 pm, you're firing yourcortisol, making it so it's
harder for you to sleep andthings like that after work.
So the wind down period for you, so it's just while you're in
this process of recovering yourbrain.
(44:25):
That's why the word movement isdifferent, because it is slower
, it is walking, it is yoga, itis restorative things.
Um, it's not running 10 miles aday, you know, it's not
crossfitting all the time.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (44:42):
It's hard right Like.
That was probably some of themost difficult advice I received
, um when we, when we, wentthrough this.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (44:49):
I was pissed.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (44:51):
I was like you think I am going to cut
out caffeine and I am going tostop working out.
I don't think so bitch Like.
That was like okay, but overtime, right, I started to do it
and I started to do it slowlyand I noticed a huge difference
because I was I, you know,you're reducing adrenal fatigue
guys, Um, especially if this issomething that you do a lot of
(45:14):
Um and I will guarantee you thatpretty much if we were to run
cortisol curves on anybody thatcomes, I have never seen a
perfect cortisol curve yet.
Yeah, like somebody had donemine now cause I'm feeling like
you know it might be better.
It feels really good now but mycurve sucked ass.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (45:29):
It was horrible.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (45:30):
Like I don't, I look at it and I'm like
look at all the low, low, low,low, low low.
Oh, there's a big red arrowShit, what's?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (45:36):
happening.
It was really interesting.
There was a physician on TikTokand he was talking about mental
health medication and he saidI'm physically fit, he ran ultra
marathons, right, so he was anultra marathoner and all these
things and he goes, but I wasdepressed so it was okay that I
went on medication.
(45:57):
I'm thinking, dude, it's theultra marathoning Like you're,
you are stressing yourself out,your cortisol is terrible, Not
to mention you know the life ofof a physician you know is hard
enough.
Then you do all that.
That appears to be healthy,right, and you're a healthy
weight and you're eating right,and you're doing all these
things, but you're really justtaxing your body even further.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (46:19):
So, yeah , yeah, so so I think the idea,
the, the, the idea of what doesmovement look like?
Okay, and that pillar, I had toredefine that right.
For me, movement was going tothe gym multiple times a week,
like I said I was doing CrossFit.
I'm running a lot Like even ifI wasn't training for something.
I'm running, you know, four orfive miles every single day and
(46:40):
how does that actually workagainst the body versus bringing
in what you said I think is areally great viewpoint the word
restorative.
What does restorative movementlook like?
Could it be some form of anexercise?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (46:53):
Well, sure, what does restorative movement
look like?
Could it be some form of anexercise?
Well, sure, but walking counts,yoga counts, stretching counts.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (47:09):
Deep breathing counts Like going
outside.
All the walking, like I thinkabout all the walking I did
before I had this job, where Istill a lot, which sucks I hate
that about this, right.
So that's where I had to switchsome things.
But all the walking I did, yeah, miles a day across
institutions.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (47:23):
Oh yeah, you did yeah.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (47:24):
Spread out for years and years.
You know, to go from one end ofthe prison to the other end of
the prison, it's at least a halfa mile walk, you know.
And just all the movement,right, that's movement.
Guys, going for a walk in theevenings for 30 minutes, 20, 30
minutes, taking your dog for awalk, like that is movement.
This all counts.
So this is where all that like,we are getting the
cardiovascular health part ofthis moving just by moving our
(47:46):
bodies.
So it doesn't have to be.
I'm a gym rat and, in fact, forthose of you who are looking to
do a taper and you are whatwe're calling a gym rat, right,
that's what I was a fucking gymrat.
I would really give someconsideration to that and what
it might be actually doing toyour adrenals, because you're
(48:07):
kicking out a ton of adrenaline.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (48:10):
All the time.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (48:10):
All the time and consider what time of
the day you work out too, guys.
That is important.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (48:15):
Well, and I think about, I tend to find the
more organic times and thingsthat you can do throughout the
day that are movement related.
So if you're working at a deskjob like I've got guys that do
pushups and sit-ups and thingslike that on the hour, every
hour they're doing these things.
So I also had somebody who wasa horseback rider and we were
(48:37):
talking about movement and Ididn't know they were a
horseback rider because theywere complaining that they
didn't go to the gym and I waslike well, what else do you do?
Well, I just ride horses.
How often do you ride horses?
Well, a couple hours a day.
And I was like that's enough.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (48:56):
That's actually extremely taxing on the
body.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (49:00):
Yes, exactly, but because it wasn't in a gym.
I'm not doing things in a gymit doesn't fit the narrative.
It wasn't enough.
So it's just interesting.
So I think movement and a lot ofpeople just don't move at all.
So I just like to walk now.
I walk with my dog, linus, allthe time, but I think a lot of
people just don't move at all.
(49:20):
So the key is to just dosomething.
And if you're waiting for themotivation fairy to visit you,
she's not visiting you.
She doesn't visit me either andshe's a real bitch about that.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (49:33):
She'll come on January 1st and do her
little bitch trickery for 13days and then it's done.
And then it's done, and thenyou give up on the 13th of
January.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (49:41):
Because it's like swimsuit season coming up
and then you're like oh no, butanyway so yes, and then she's
done, then she's gone.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (49:55):
We're not talking diet culture here,
guys.
We are doing everything in theopposite realm of that.
I've got a few people who dojobs like we do and we sit a lot
during the day and they wentand got themselves those nice
little walking things that goright under their desk.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (50:01):
Oh, yeah, the walking pad.
Yeah, I wish I could do that,but I think it would be weird
for me to walk while I'm talking.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (50:07):
I actually asked one of my clients
about it one day I was likekind of just pretend walking and
I'm like does this look weird?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (50:17):
Like does it distracting, Like if I did this
for 20 minutes, would it be okaywith you?
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (50:19):
Cause I yeah, they were like it's fine,
dad, but honestly, I think oneof the things the home run hit
to this is exercise is we areputting the word movement on it,
and it's about bringing moremovement into your day, even if
it's for five or 10 minutesduring the day.
There's a reason that there'sso much science behind employers
now that are trying to dobetter ergonomic things for
(50:41):
their people when they'reworking.
Trying to give guess what.
You have to go take a 10 minutebreak.
There's a reason for that.
Take advantage of it, becausethis does make a really big
difference.
It's a lifestyle, remember.
So we're starting to bring intoour brain that there are things
other than going to the gym for90 minutes that are part of our
lifestyle, that are going to behealthy and helpful, and it's
(51:01):
so much more doable.
It's so much more doable, so Ithink that that's maybe the home
run ticket to the movement isso many things.
So stop classifying it as I'vegot to go to the gym for 90
minutes.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (51:15):
It's only this one thing.
It's only the one thing.
Yes.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (51:19):
Yeah.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (51:19):
All right.
Well, I think that that is agood wrap up for today.
The before you taper.
There's a.
There's a few more nuggets inthere, but I think we're running
out of time, so we're going tohave to stick that in part two
that I wanted to talk about.
So that is the 30-day warmup toyour medication taper by the
book.
Here it is 30, 90.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (51:40):
She meant to say 90, but she's just
so excited about her book.
It's our 90-day warmup.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (51:43):
Oh, I'm sorry, Did I say 30 before?
Again, you did, but it's fine.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (51:47):
90 days Numbers are tough, it's okay.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (51:49):
The three-month warmup.
Sorry about that, guys.
By the book by the book, you'llappreciate it and make sure you
turn it into part two, whenwe're going to talk about our
best tips for a successful taper, when you're actually in your
taper.
All right, well, if you've hungout with us so far, this has
(52:11):
been the Gaslit Truth Podcast.
Please like, share, comment,subscribe and send us your
gaslit truth atthegaslittruthpodcast at
gmailcom.
It's fine.
It's fine.
You've been gaslit intobelieving that you will be on
your antidepressants forever.
This is a two-part episode, sothis is part one and we are
talking about how to taper yourmedications.
We are your whistleblowingshrinks, Dr Tara Lynn and
therapist Jen, and this is theGaslit Truth Podcast.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (00:22):
It is.
And you know here's the coolthing about this is, yes, we're
therapists, right, but we arealso deprescribers.
So, we consult with people onthis exact topic that we are
going to be talking about inthis two-part series, because we
actually have a littleknowledge on this.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (00:41):
A little bit, and I want to bring in this too.
I've been getting some phonecalls lately about people who
have done deprescribing andtheir brains still don't feel
healthy.
So this might be helpful forthat group of people as well,
and Jen and I work with brainhealth as well, so don't feel
like if you've already tapered,that you can't work with us
(01:02):
because you can.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (01:03):
Yes, you can.
There's still maintenance thatyou can do.
And hey, there's that bitch ofthat thing called protracted
withdrawal.
Yes, doesn't do us any favorsfor months, or sometimes even
years after discontinuing apsych med and you have to
continue to support your brain.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (01:20):
So yes, so I feel like this episode is going
to be good for people beforethey taper and after, if you
haven't already done this typeof work.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (01:28):
So yeah, cause they're similar.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (01:30):
Yeah, yeah, they're very similar.
So this is the episode on whatto do before you taper.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (01:37):
Yeah, yeah.
And this part is, um, I think,sometimes difficult for people
to wrap their brain around,because a taper should just be
well, let's start tapering Rightand now.
Not that you can't do that, allright, you know it is an option
.
Okay For some people.
I would rather have people liketaper hyperbolically and safely
(02:00):
and do it that way even if youdon't have all the things dialed
in first, versus just followingsome of the advice I'm trying
to think about my headspace whenI was doing it.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (02:12):
I think this might be a headspace of a lot of
people.
You finally get to a spacewhere you're like now is the
time I'm going to do it, I don'twant to get another
prescription, and so today isthe day, or tomorrow or Monday
or whatever it is.
Because you get to that spotand then you try and then it
goes haywire and then you losehope and the whole thing starts
(02:35):
all over again.
So Jen and I are here to tellyou that you need a plan, a
three-month warmup, if you will.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (02:43):
Yes, for sure, and Terry did it the
other way, right, and I have thebenefit of being able to talk
about actually doing the 90 daywarmup um a few months worth of
lifestyle shit.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (02:54):
Yeah, the 90 day warmup didn't exist when I
was, uh, on medication.
Uh, so I did the cold Turkey.
Uh, I did the cold turkey.
I did the cold turkey, which Iwould never, ever suggest to
anyone, and if you've ever triedit, you know why.
Even if you've missed a coupleof days, you probably understand
(03:16):
why not.
But this was at a time where Ididn't know what I knew and all
this stuff about tapering didn'texist, and so I'm glad that it
exists now, and I'm glad that itexists now, and I'm glad that
Jen and I are here to talk aboutit.
So, if you are consideringtaping your medication, if
you're even just curious aboutit, like you're like
contemplating, should I,shouldn't I?
You know, this might help youto understand what it might take
(03:40):
.
And this isn't to give you liketake, and this isn't to give
you like, oh, this is going totake forever and so long, but
the best plan is a well-executedand developed plan.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (03:59):
Yeah, it's one that focuses more on
lifestyle and actually shiftingyour lifestyle.
It kind of reminds me of thediscussion we had about New
Year's resolutions right and howwe have these little short-term
goals right, but let's forgetthat let's actually change our
lifestyle, because going througha medication taper pre, during
and post for it to be the mosteffective and most successful,
it is going to require somelifestyle changes.
(04:20):
And people don't like to hearthat and I'm not saying across
the board this is for everybody.
But the most effective way tostart tapering is to dial your
lifestyle in for a few monthsprior to actually tapering.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (04:32):
But I will say even if you have your lifestyle
or you believe that yourlifestyle is relatively dialed
in and some people it really isthere still are a lot of pieces
that you have to plan for aheadof time.
So I'm still going to stick bythat three-month warm-up, no
matter where you are in yourlifestyle.
And I also want to tell youthat, because of things like
(04:55):
diet, culture and all that weget into this all-or-nothing
space that if I can't do it 100%right, that I'm not going to do
it at all, do it 100% right,that I'm not going to do it at
all.
And I want to let you know that, when it comes to these
lifestyle changes, I tell people, if you get a good C like a 70%
to 75% on this assignment,you're going to be doing well.
So, yeah, so if you get a C, onthe assignment you're going to
(05:17):
do well.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (05:20):
Sounds like my undergrad.
Yeah, I mean, that sounds C'sget degrees and guess what C's
are going to get you through ataper, damn it.
So you'll be fine, Like here wego.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (05:29):
I love it.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (05:30):
Here we go.
And I actually think, Terry, aswe start this off.
We need to talk first aboutsomething that you have shared
with me, that I share with allof my clients.
That, I think, is one of thebest tips for starting a taper,
and prior to tapering is aboutand this goes beyond tapering
(05:50):
too but the idea of how you giveyourself grace within this when
you just said, caesar, okay,some days are good, some are
better some are best and someare just good enough.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (06:01):
Good enough Yep.
The good, better, best, goodenough plan is how I live my
life.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (06:08):
It's one of the best pieces of advice
and I give it to all my clients,especially my tapering clients.
You're going to have to giveyourself some grace through this
process, because it's not easy.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (06:19):
I do feel like I need to shout out to my
friend, marsha, who was actuallythe one that introduced me to
the good, better, best, goodenough idea years ago, and that
has just stuck with me becauseit's brilliant and it's
beautiful and it makes a lot ofsense.
So I love to share that with asmany people that will listen.
So, all right, with that inmind, I have my.
(06:41):
We're going to go from low tonumber one, um, and I don't know
, jen, did you write stuff downor did you?
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (06:48):
not, I didn't write down shit.
Look at this.
I got no notes.
Sounds good.
It's in my melon, you know.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (06:53):
So this is this is my chance to do a little
shameless self-promotion for mybook, because this book is
really the three month warmup.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (07:00):
It is.
I was hoping you were going tosay that this is how much show
prep we do.
I was.
I was like I hope she talksabout this, because this is what
we're talking about.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (07:16):
This is literally so.
My book your Best Brain you canfind it on Amazon, but it is
literally written out to helpyou with your brain, but it is a
three-month warm-up, so eachsection in this book is a pillar
of mental health that Jen and Italk about in the four pillars
of mental health, which isnutrition, sleep, movement and
meditation, ie stress management.
So there's more in the bookthan that, but those are the big
(07:38):
four pillars that Jen wastalking about when she said you
need to dial in your lifestyle,because there's more to
lifestyle than just eating and Ithink people like to focus in
on it's just food.
It's just food.
It's not just food.
There's many parts, or at leastfour, that we've identified as
your big pillars of mentalhealth, and so that is
(07:59):
identified in the book.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (08:01):
So we don't do that.
$15.99 on Amazon, guys, noepisodes, you just buy Terry's
book.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (08:06):
Just buy the book and move along.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (08:10):
I like that.
All right, we'll give out somefree advice for two episodes.
How's that sound Sure?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (08:16):
But I look at the four pillars and so if
you're really thinking about iteat, sleep, move, meditate are
the four pillars?
I ask people to kind ofevaluate where they believe they
are zero to 10, 10 being thebest.
Where are you in these pillars?
And that gives you some goodguidance on which ones are your
weakest pillars and which onesare your strongest.
(08:36):
And if we're looking to get a70 on that, you want a seven.
So what does a seven look likein these pillars for you?
What does a six look like?
What does an eight look like?
That type of thing.
So I think that's an importantpiece of this, so you know where
you are and you know where youwant to be and what that might
look like in each pillar.
Supplementation can be a keypart in your plan and when you
(08:58):
go on some of these Facebooksites, there's a little bit of
conflicting information.
Like some people are like don'tdo any supplements, Just let
your brain heal.
I'm like, I don't know aboutthat, I'm conflicted.
I'd like to know what you thinkabout that, Jen, because I know
(09:19):
that I've started you with somesupplements and things like
that and I wonder if you feellike it was valuable.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (09:25):
Yeah, yeah, now I do, and I don't
disagree with you.
We get that, and actually we'vehad guests on the show that
have gotten off meds and didn'tuse any supplements either.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (09:35):
Right.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (09:36):
Yeah, and that's fine.
I mean, I think that this is avery individualized choice.
Now, for me it was somethingthat was important, based off a
lot of.
I mean, I did functionaltesting before I started this
guys.
So functional medicine cameinto play and my serotonin, my
dopamine levels, norepinephrine,epinephrine, gamma glutamate
all these were tested right.
(09:57):
We did some hormone testing soI had that there as some
evidence to go.
Oh, this is why this could behappening.
My dopamine pathway is shitbecause my norepinephrine isn't
converting to epinephrine,because I'm not producing any
adrenaline, because I don't havethat.
My cortisol outputs were shitwhen I woke up and there's not a
(10:19):
nice pretty little curve that'sstarting at the top and going
down during the day.
For me, that curve was at thebottom when I woke up.
already, curve that's startingat the top and going down during
the day for me that curve wasat the bottom when I woke up
already, so for me it washelpful and I brought in amino
acids.
So amino acids are somethingthat you want to work with
somebody who understands theseand who can actually talk about
them.
Amino acids can be boughtanywhere, guys.
(10:40):
I mean you can buy them atWalgreens, you can go get them
on like professional websites,right, like we have a website.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (10:45):
Your gym rats are all using amino acids.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (10:47):
Yeah, they're in as flip around your
protein powder, Any kind ofprotein powders that you have.
Flip them over.
You're going to see L-tyrosinein there.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (10:55):
I'm sorry.
If you eat turkey and chicken,you're going to see amino acids.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (10:59):
You're going to see tryptophan.
You're going to see all thethings right Like they're in
there.
So there's something that youcan get from a supplement.
You also get them from food andnutrition.
What I caution people on is, ifyou're going to take
supplements, at least get someguidance from someone who
understands them, becausesupplements can be especially
amino acids they arecontraindicated with your psych
(11:22):
meds.
Some are contraindicated.
For example, I have to be verycareful with 5-HTP because that
actually has an adverse effecton the antidepressant Lexapro
that I'm taking.
Now do I not not take it?
No, actually I do, and thereare times where I do take it for
a couple months at a time and Isee how I feel on it and it
actually assists in some of thatserotonin pathway for me, how I
(11:44):
sleep a little bit better, butthen I don't always need it.
So that's the other thing toremember when we're talking
about supplements is they are asupplement.
They are not something thatoutdoes a shit lifestyle.
You cannot out supplement ashit lifestyle.
So, these are these pillarswe're going to talk about,
because if you can't getyourself dialed in in these and
(12:04):
all you think you just need isto use supplements, you're
pissing your money down thedrain.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (12:10):
Well and I do want to bring this part in is
that supplements are gettingthis wrap of like a medication
right.
Take this.
I get messages like this allthe time what can I take that's
natural, that will help me, andI'm like it doesn't work like
that.
People are looking for thatperceived quick fix in a
(12:35):
supplement, and I wish therewere one, but I like to think
about supplements as moreintuitive.
They're also intuitive for you.
I know that if I don't take anomega-3 fatty acid every day,
that my brain skips beats.
I don't know how else todescribe it.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (12:53):
I can't find words.
Word finding is gone.
If I go more than a couple ofdays without my omegas, my word
finding is gone.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (12:59):
Yes, that's what it is for me too.
It skips and whatever.
So I know that omega-3 fattyacids are good for me.
Should I be eating more fish?
Probably you know, but I do ahigher dose of omega-3 fatty
acid Now in the wintertime myhusband takes 5-HTP because he's
an ornery crab ass in thewinter and so I know right, a
little 5-HTP helps him out a lot.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (13:22):
We got all the women listening going oh
my God, I got to buy a babyright now for my husband.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (13:25):
Okay, we're going to put it in stock, but
that's.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (13:29):
It is very you're right, it's very
individualized.
So I guess, when it comes tothis piece about supplements,
which an amino acid.
We could do a whole episode onthat too.
I know we should.
Actually, this is a good idea,right?
It is very individualized andit is helpful to either work
with someone who understandsaminos okay or start doing some
(13:50):
research on your own.
It is very easy to go onlineand look up what medications are
contraindicated with L-tyrosineand you can look that up.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (14:00):
I'll give you a good website.
People, if you're listening,just go to drugscom.
Like drugscom will actuallyhelp you do two things.
They will tell you about thedrugs that you're taking, how
they're interacting with eachother.
You can also put in somesupplements.
They don't have a lot ofsupplements on there, but I
believe you can put in somesupplements on there too, so
that's a really good resourcefor people.
(14:21):
But, yeah, I've spent the last Idon't know how 10 years
figuring out amino acids.
It was the very first thingthat I looked at for people.
So now we can enter in some ofthe functional medicine labs and
then also micronutrient labs.
You can get at your doctor'soffice so that you can actually
see what other nutrients aremissing, because we know, in
(14:45):
order for an amino acid to turninto a neurotransmitter, you
need certain nutrients in place,like your B vitamins, your
vitamin C, your vitamin D, whichnobody looks at.
These things need to be thereand they need to be at
substantial levels.
Now, then, I mean we can godown this whole rabbit hole.
Maybe we should in a whole bigepisode, but not today, okay.
(15:06):
Yeah, we can't start talkingabout nutrient depletions,
because, my God this is like thedrain you go down this rabbit
hole and then pretty soonespecially if you don't know
what you're doing or your personyou're working with doesn't
know you're going to be on 20different supplements and you're
not going to know which one ishelpful, which one is not, and
(15:28):
eventually it's like a funnelYou're going to funnel it down
to the ones that you believe arethe most helpful.
When I say you believe it's theones that you intuitively know
are the ones that you need,right, and that again, jen, and
I talk about this like regainingyour sense of personal agency,
like you figure out what youwant.
When I lay out a plan tosomebody, I give them the
(15:49):
kitchen sink, like I give themthe whole thing, and then in the
end, I ask every single onewhere do you want to start?
What makes sense for you tobegin?
How many supplements would youlike to begin with?
What doesn't feel overwhelmingto you?
And then I'll guide them into,like their top three or your top
five, you know so, cause we cango on and on and on with
(16:12):
supplements, you know.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (16:19):
We could , we could, but in general, I
think it kind of takes us intothe next, this pillar of overall
.
What are we putting in?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (16:22):
our mouth.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (16:23):
Okay, we're talking nutrition as as
one of these pillars and I thinkone of the I mean Terry, and I
take a pretty, pretty basic.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (16:32):
I'm going to say this is pretty basic
approach Like we will have, Iwill have people and I will say
to them.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (16:37):
I'm like people pay me a shit ton of
money to talk to them aboutwhat's going in their mouth, and
there are some basic premisesthat are very, very important
overall when it comes tonutrition, and I think we can
hit sugars, caffeines, proteins,Boom boom, boom.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (16:56):
Yeah, that's about it.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (16:57):
Mine's decaf and it says chill, chill,
it looks like hill.
Oh, I see the C is the handle.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (17:02):
That's really cute, mine's half decaf, half
regular today, but you know, butthat's what it is.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (17:08):
We are talking about some basic stuff.
So obviously in each of thesepillars today we're not going to
dive too far into it.
But correct me if I'm wrong,terri.
Those are a start for reallylooking at like proteins, sugars
, caffeine, yeah.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (17:23):
Yep Water and water and water and.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (17:25):
I think something for and yes, you're
right water, something foreverybody to know, is a very
simple.
Again, I say this I got peoplepay me so much to say this to
them, but I wouldn't, and Ididn't know this either, right,
until, and it's not that hard.
But okay, guys ready,neurotransmitters, okay, that
are in our brain, buckle upbecause this is the news.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (17:46):
Put your seatbelt on right.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (17:48):
Put your seatbelt on, Put your fucking
belt on Neurotransmitters thatare in our brain.
Right, these are these dopamine, serotonin, gaba, which is
actually a neurotransmitter andan amino.
But that's okay, we won't gothere.
These things, right?
Okay, all these mainneurotransmitter pathways.
They are made from amino acids.
All right, amino acids must beobtained.
(18:10):
They are derived from proteinthat you eat.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (18:15):
That's it.
That's your basic bullshit.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (18:18):
I mean, that's literally.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (18:19):
So this is one of those things where I go.
So how in the world does it notmake sense to focus in a little
bit on your diet In the mentalhealth world if we're so worried
about brain health and all thisstuff like diet and even
protein helps stabilize bloodsugar, which is hugely
implicated.
So I tell people, if you donothing else, if you do nothing
(18:42):
else, improve your proteinintake.
That's it.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (18:46):
Yes, there's more, and here's where
here's where Terry's like good,better, best, better enough,
comes in, right, because thereare really like best sources of
protein right, you've got your,your, your, really super great
lean proteins.
Whether you're eating like, say, a chicken breast right, that's
grilled, okay, like somethingin that realm, right, that's
(19:07):
like our best category.
Our better category might bemaking a shake, okay, like a
protein shake, for example.
Maybe putting a little proteinpowder in it, perhaps, right, or
natural sources of protein,okay, in a shake.
Then you have some days thatare just good and the best you
(19:28):
can do is go grab one of thosedamn chocolate protein bars out
of your cabinet, okay, and scarfthat down, because I don't have
time throughout the day tocontinue to introduce a best
protein and that's it.
You can have levels of this,right.
You may have days where you'resnacking every three, four hours
(19:51):
and what you're eating inbetween is a good source of
protein.
Maybe it's a healthy nut, maybeyou've got your walnuts, maybe
you've got your cashews, yourmacadamias, your almonds right,
that might be a good.
Yes, I'm doing that every fewhours and putting a protein in
my body, and then it may be.
All I can do today is dump someprotein powder in a shake,
(20:11):
shake it up and go.
That's my protein, or?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (20:13):
even one of those nasty ass ready-made
protein shakes.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (20:17):
You know , I mean that would be a good
enough thing.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (20:20):
They are nasty ass not the best, but they're
going to do the job.
They are good enough when youneed good enough, but they're
going to do the job.
They are good enough when youneed good enough.
So this is kind of the leewaythat you need to give yourself
and all those options good,better, best, good enough could
occur in a single day, and therecould be a whole day of good
enough.
(20:40):
There could be a whole day ofbest, but some days they occur
all throughout.
But those are your basic thingsEat more fruits, vegetables and
protein period.
It was really interesting.
I just want to bring in alittle thing, because I took a
class and we had to put in.
It was like a calculator oflike the vitamins and minerals
(21:02):
that we ate in a day.
So you put in your food and itspits out here's the vitamins,
here's all the nutrients, notjust calories, but it's all the
nutrients that you've now eatenin a day.
And then you were to put in onewhole fruit or one whole
vegetable.
So you put in the sameinformation, but then you add a
fruit or a vegetable and see howit changes.
(21:24):
And I thought I put in likepizza and all this crap, a bunch
of shit food, because there aredays that I eat a bunch of shit
food.
And then I go in my mind I'mlike, what difference does it
make if I eat an apple?
Now I've already trashed thewhole day and I will tell you it
makes a huge difference.
So adding in an apple changedthe entire profile.
(21:45):
So don't ever think that ifyou're having a quote, unquote
bad food day that eating a wholefruit or vegetable or protein
source won't help you, becauseit will, it'll change the whole
profile for the day.
So that might be something foryou guys to think about in your
nutrition journey.
And secondarily I just wantedto bring this in this nutrition
(22:07):
journey is not about weight loss, so get that right out of your
brain.
This is about brain health.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (22:14):
That's what I was just going to say the
idea of eating a protein everyfew hours.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (22:23):
That is what.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (22:23):
I talk about is bringing a protein in,
right, and every few hours,because I'll have a lot of
people that and I'm not we'renot sitting here bashing fasting
either.
Okay, there's a whole wholenother plethora of that too,
which, okay, we're talking aboutstrictly from.
I'm trying to get ready, mybody ready to taper.
I am trying to support my brainright now and what it needs.
(22:44):
Okay, part of that iscontinuing to teach yourself to
eat more frequently and when youeat, what to choose.
That could be better for you.
So, if you can bring inproteins every few hours, bring
in fresh fruits or veggies orsomething that's higher in fiber
or some good vitamins to it,right, that is going to help
prepare you and prepare yourbrain.
(23:05):
Because here's the deal.
This is another episode, butquick tidbit of information All
those psych meds you guys aretaking, they deplete the shit
out of certain nutrients.
Your B vitamins are down thetank.
Your folic acid is down thetank.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (23:17):
They also ruin your gut health.
So if your gut health is notstrong, you're not absorbing the
things that you're taking in,so they do a lot of damage, you
know and they change up, theychange the talk that happens
from the brain to the gut.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (23:35):
Right, we know that a good chunk of our
serotonin is created in the gut.
So all of you who are takingSSRIs, SNRIs, I should say even
any of the meds, cause they,they all, deplete all of these
areas right, You're starting totell serotonin hey, guess what?
You're downregulated.
That's starting to tell the gutguess what?
(23:55):
We're not producing as much ofthis, the gut is going to react.
They talk back and forth, soit's just something to think
about too.
Our gut health is not in agreat space and the nutrients
are being depleted.
So one of those things when itcomes to food is let's start to
bring in food and or nutrientsfrom food to help replenish some
of what we lost.
Are we going to get all of it?
(24:16):
No, because you only get asmuch as your gut health is going
to allow you to have.
But, guys, it's a start.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (24:22):
It's a start to looking at food differently.
People say you are what you eat, and I think People say you are
what you eat, and I think it'smore, you are what you absorb.
Um, so you gotta think aboutthat, but they're, they both
work hand in hand, so all right.
So we're not going to do a deepdive into sleep, move and
meditate because we're going torun out of time.
Um.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (24:42):
I would, I would like to huh yeah, we,
we could do a little, but itcan't be super deep, right?
Yeah?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (24:48):
Well, because I could talk about sleep all day
long, because it's another hugefactor in people's lives is
sleep.
If you think you can run off offour or five hours, you
actually can't.
That's usually probably acortisol issue that you're
having, but you think that youcan run off of it, so anyway.
(25:08):
So there's a lot, a lot ofsleep, and sleep has to do with
how you prepare your body tofall asleep, your environment
and your body and your brain tosleep, and if you roll back
through, even things likecaffeine are going to negatively
impact your sleep.
I did a little thing on thehalf-life of caffeine and I was
shocked that if you drink a cupof caffeine at 8 am one day, the
(25:32):
next day it's still in yoursystem at 8 am, so it never goes
away.
So if you're constantly drinkingcaffeinated beverages and we're
not just talking about coffee,because there's caffeinated
beverages in everything, likeall your energy drinks and all
those things we tend to leaveout and, by the way, when we
think about a cup of coffeewe're not talking about you know
(25:53):
, this is not a cup of coffee.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (25:55):
this giant mug, this tiny little guy
right here.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (25:59):
Is a cup of coffee.
What I'm showing would be twocups of coffee actually.
So, yes, so you know, get realon what you're, what you're
starting to pay it, yeah, payattention to caffeine sources.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (26:11):
Um, I actually just took my uh
daughter earlier today um tothis, really great, great, great
, great.
Like healthy.
It is very, very, very healthy.
Um, like coffee shop, but theydon't do coffee, it's all teas,
Okay, and things like that andwhat.
What she was asking me about,right, and this is where we
start to talk about caffeine, islike the the, you know moderate
(26:33):
size.
They actually write out howmany milligrams of caffeine are
in it, and what people don'trealize is there is caffeine in
tea, right, and so these are allteas that they serve, but
there's 190 milligrams ofcaffeine in what she ordered
this morning, and so we'retalking about that, right,
Because you know, like our poorkids and my whole house has to
(26:53):
deal with my brain health likenerd that I go on, right,
they're like just shut up, mom,just let me have my tea and shut
up, right.
But when we think aboutcaffeine, this is sleep.
So sleep is also tied to yourcaffeine, to your sugars, right,
and to your proteins, Okay.
So it's something to thinkabout when it comes to,
obviously, what you put in yourmouth and how it can impact
(27:15):
sleep.
So think about that decreasingcaffeine intake to help with
sleep, not having any caffeineafter you know early mid morning
, early morning nothing.
It's 10, 11 am.
I'm done.
That's it.
No more caffeine throughout therest of the day.
Also, I got to touch on thisquick before we move on to the
next pillar.
Terry, you just said somethingthat I think is important, and
(27:37):
it's prepping the brain and thebody for sleeping at nighttime.
Do you have a routine?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (27:45):
I think everybody has a routine.
Is the routine good?
Probably not.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (27:51):
Well, that's what I'm asking, is what
your routine is, because I thinkif we have some ideas we can
give people for, like what issuper helpful for the healthy
routine that helps prep thebrain and body for sleep.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (28:01):
I will tell you what is not healthy for me
is probably an easier thing.
So will tell you what is nothealthy for me is probably an
easier thing.
So, um well, I always turn myheat down to 63 at night, so the
whole house is 63 degrees.
Um, I do have a ceiling fan onwhich my husband would love for
it to break.
Um but then I would just get abigger one.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (28:19):
So industrial big ass fan, barn fan
, barn fan a barn fan fan.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (28:27):
That would be next on the list.
I used to use a lot ofessential oils in the bedroom
when I was having troublesleeping, because your sense of
smell can pick that up and notonly can they help you relax,
but then they start associating.
That smell means sleep.
So that's important to yourbody, associates certain things,
(28:49):
so I don't put pajamas on andthen go watch TV.
I put pajamas on and I go tobed.
We don't have a televisiongoing in our bedroom.
Those things have changedthroughout the years for us,
because that was a huge argumentwith the television.
Now are there nights that I getstuck on my phone, 100%.
(29:11):
Yeah you do, yeah, and so I'mjust calling myself out on that
and I will say those are thenights that I do not sleep well.
Usually it has to do withsomething going on on TikTok or
social media or something that Ijust feel like I need to be
part of, so anyway, but I don'tstay up to like one in the
morning doing that.
It would be like maybe 30minutes or something, maybe an
(29:33):
hour, but I've never reallystayed.
I know people that stay up toone, two in the morning just
scrolling, and I'm like thatneeds to stop.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (29:41):
So scrolling is going to scrolling
needs to stop.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (29:43):
So if you can't do it, I don't use my
phone for my alarm.
I do have an, alexa, that I.
I said that because I didn'twant her to hear me.
I'm not going to say your name,mine will go off too.
Yeah, anyway, I use that for myalarm.
I don't use my phone.
So I try not to use my phonefor anything except charging in
the bedroom and, like I said, Ido get stuck on social media
(30:08):
sometimes.
So if you're trying to, if youknow that your sleep is bad,
like, these are some of thethings that you need to stop
doing, and you know, then I dothe regular brush my teeth, go
to the bathroom, put on mypajamas and go to bed, like so
we all have natural things thatwe do.
It's just a matter ofidentifying if they are good or
serving us well or not, you know.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (30:28):
And some people can.
I have a lot of discussion whenI talk sleep with people we
talk about like electronics andthe blue light that comes from
electronics right and we willhave a discussion about what
that actually does when it goesthrough the eye.
What centers of the brain rightit activates to say, hey, guess
what, it's not sleepy nighttime.
Now for some people they can dothat for a little bit and they
(30:49):
are able to manage sleep Okay.
For some they can't.
So this has to be veryindividualized.
I thought I had sleep dialed in, but I didn't until I started
doing it differently.
For me it turned into a routinethat's often included, like
taking a hot bath with, likesome Epsom salts, which
(31:11):
sometimes I do that, especiallyon like a Sunday night.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (31:14):
I do that on Sunday night because I get the
Sunday night windups beforeMonday.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (31:17):
Yes, the freaking Monday Sunday night
already, so that's a great idea.
Build that into your routine.
Sit in the bath, put some Epsomsalts in there.
You can put a little essentialoil in there.
Epsom salt actually converts tomagnesium when it disintegrates
into the water.
Guys, and magnesium is superhelpful I mean not only for like
700 different functions of thebody, but also to help.
(31:38):
Slow it's going to slow.
It's like it's your brake pedal.
It's going to slow you guysdown right.
So make that part of yourroutine.
I also use a lot of oils.
Instead of like putting lotionon my body, I started to use
really good, clean oil and Iwould have.
I put body oil on and thatsmell right is triggering in my
brain.
(31:58):
Here we go, it's time to slowdown, right, so I've got
eucalyptus in there.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (32:04):
Well, I want to go back to like.
I think most people tend to doa really good job of creating a
sleep routine for their baby andtheir toddlers and things like
that, which might include, likeI remember putting lotion on the
kids before I put their PJs on,and reading them a book and
giving them their bottles andyou know all these things.
(32:25):
But we don't do the same thingfor ourselves and I think that's
a really good comparisonreading them a book and giving
them their bottles, and you knowall these things, but we don't
do the same thing for ourselves.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (32:30):
Yeah, imagine that.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (32:30):
Yeah.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (32:30):
That's a really good comparison, Terri.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (32:33):
Yeah, because I think that we do that a lot
for our kids.
But this is the plight of themom, right, like we do a lot of
things that are good for ourkids that we don't do for
ourselves.
But if you think about that,you do that for a reason, so
that they associate all thesethings with winding down and
getting some rest, and we needto do the same thing for
ourselves.
(32:53):
So, yeah, the other thing Iwant to bring up with sleep is
just two little things sugarbefore bed and alcohol before
bed.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (33:01):
I've got to go away.
That's when I don't sleep iswhen I have a bowl of ice cream
before bed.
Okay, that's when I don't sleepwell.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (33:08):
I can fall asleep.
So here's what happens when youeat sugary things before bed.
You'll be waking up at themiddle of the night probably, or
waking up too early.
I call it getting a low levelof sleep, because you never dive
into deep sleep if you arehypoglycemic throughout the
night.
So instead opt for a proteinsnack.
(33:29):
But alcohol before bed reallydestroys your sleep.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (33:34):
You might think it doesn't.
Well, that's because it helpsyou fall asleep.
I sleep so good when I drink.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (33:39):
Yep, it helps you fall asleep.
Yeah, but it disrupts everysleep cycle throughout the night
and you're not rested.
But it disrupts every sleepcycle throughout the night and
you are not rested, which is notgoing to help your mental
well-being in the morning or anyof that day Overall guys.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (33:54):
I mean, those two things are huge sugar
and alcohol.
Your body, essentially right,you're going to crash once that
process is through your body,right?
And when that happens, right,your adrenals are going to start
to kick in.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (34:09):
Well, your adrenaline actually kicks off.
Your adrenaline goes and nowyou're awake and your brain
doesn't care if it's fucking twoo'clock in the morning, it's
going to wake you up.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (34:19):
So for those of you who have those
little smartwatches which I donot, because I'm an old soul in
that, but I don't sleep- withelectronics on my body, yeah,
and it's a way to test it right.
So I'll have clients that willdo that and they will say to me
I will eat like shit a couplenights in a row and it measures
your sleep cycles.
Try doing that without eatingthat.
Eat a high-protein snack, havea bowl of cottage cheese or
something before you go to bedEven a couple of bites, yeah.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (34:49):
Yeah, it's kind of a joke around my house,
because it'll be like eighto'clock on a Saturday night and
I'll look at Steve and I'll belike I'd really like some ice
cream.
Oh, let's go, let's go get someice cream.
Yeah, let's go get some icecream.
And then he'll look at me andhe'll go are you sure, are you
sure?
And I'm like, no, I'm not sure,but I really want some.
Then we'll go get it.
And it's that moment where yougo, I'm going to fuck up my
(35:12):
sleep tonight, that's for damnsure.
But you know what you're doingnow.
You consciously know whatyou're in for.
And then you weigh the risk andthe benefit suddenly and you're
like, eh, let's just go get theice cream.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (35:24):
So then that moves us actually a little
bit, because part of my sleeproutine is also to do some
meditation.
So that kind of moves us intothe next pillar as I might just
transition us right into itwhich is looking at mindfulness,
meditation exercises, things wecan do to reduce stress,
because you do not have to beBuddha, you do not have to be a
yogi.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (35:54):
You do not have to be an expert in this to
bring some like stress reductionor and or just basic
mindfulness techniques.
So this was brought up as aconversation that I had this
week too, of somebody who didn'twant to meditate because they
felt it was against theirreligious beliefs.
And I'm like, well, you can sitand you could do some deep
breathing which is meditative,and even meditation like I
learned to meditate withBuddhist monks.
Long story not going to getinto it, but anyway, it wasn't
(36:18):
anything that I thought it wasgoing to be Okay, it wasn't.
There was a little bit of ritualin the beginning and the end
which I don't do was justlearning how to breathe and sit
and learning how to control yourthoughts.
Literally, when your thoughtgoes away, you bring it back to
(36:41):
the breath and to the countingof the breath.
That was it, and I'm ridiculous.
I'm like this is easy peasy.
So I went up to them later.
I'm like well, so what's thenext step?
What's the next thing that I'msupposed to be learning here?
And they looked at me and theysaid people practice this for a
lifetime and I was like God damnit.
I wanted the certificate.
I wanted to be done.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (36:59):
Where's Susie Amendola here when we need
her to go?
Damn it, terry Come on?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (37:03):
Exactly Right.
But meditation seems easy.
It's not as easy as you think.
Some people like guidedmeditation.
I don't like that, because I'vegot enough going on in my brain
so I prefer to just guidemyself and just do the breathing
and the counting, and for methat works.
Again, this is one of thosethings what works for you, and
(37:27):
it doesn't have to be aspiritually based thing, but it
can be.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (37:32):
It absolutely can be.
For some people it is.
It absolutely can be.
For some people it is.
Add prayer in there.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (37:36):
Add affirmation, add whatever you
want or don't.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (37:40):
Part of my nighttime routine for me most
evenings is doing a body scanand I will meditate my way all
the way through the top of myhead, in each of the areas of my
body and I make sure that Iwill loosen and relax each area
from the top all the way down.
It used to be I had to go fromthe bottom up and the top down.
Right Now I don't have to doboth because I've gotten to a
(38:02):
space where, by the time I gofrom the top all the way down, I
get down to like my calves andI'm good right.
But this is also part ofsomething you can do during the
day, guys.
If you have a few minutes, youcan meditate or you can do a
mindfulness type of activity,something as simple as going
(38:22):
outside and taking off yourshoes and feeling what the grass
feels like underneath your feetand sitting for a couple
minutes and noticing it, lookingaround in your backyard that
you've been looking at for 20years and noticing something
you've never noticed before, andin letting yourself sit in it.
There is conscious meditationfor people who are, or
(38:44):
mindfulness for people who arelearning the basics of it.
It's really just about payingattention in a very particular
way and then starting to noticeyour breath and to listen to the
body.
So it doesn't have to be.
I've got to have an hour andI've got to go sit down.
I've got to have that.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (39:00):
Literally, five to seven minutes will
trigger your nervous system thatyou're not in fight or flight
anymore.
That's it Like five to sevenminutes of this type of
breathing and slowing down.
And the other thing that people, I can't meditate because I
can't shut my brain off.
That's not what it's abouteither.
So you can get rid of a lot ofthe things that you think about
meditation to not be true and goahead and figure out what works
(39:24):
for you.
So meditation, I think it'sreally important.
My mentor, dan Kalish, when hewas talking about meditation, he
meditates for hours everysingle day and I was like how,
what?
How do you even have time to?
Plus, he cycles and does allthis other stuff and I'm like
(39:45):
that's all he does, is self-careall day.
I think I don't know, but Idon't know how he does all that.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (39:49):
But I'm like I struggled to get five
minutes, can you imagine howmuch gray matter is in that
man's brain?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (39:54):
Oh yeah, I don't know.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (39:55):
It's so heavy.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (39:56):
It's probably like yeah, he probably has to
hold it up with a sling orsomething, I don't know, but
that's what we're doing.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (40:02):
We're doing, guys, is we are using.
We are using mindful awareness,right Meditation to strengthen
these neural connections, tocreate more gray matter in the
brain and the kind of shittypart it's shitty.
I just had a very longdiscussion with one of my
clients this week about this isthe unfortunate part of
psychiatric medications, andspecifically some other than
(40:26):
others more so is that they arereducing the gray matter in your
brain, which is why there areresearch links now and that
shows that their dementia islinked to long-term
antidepressant use.
This is the why.
Okay, so how do I counter this?
How do I bring something backinto play?
(40:47):
This is actually a techniquethat costs no money, that uses
very little resources other thanyour time, and you're trying to
figure out the best that worksfor you.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (40:58):
You don't even need anything fancy to wear.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (41:01):
No, you do not need any of that stuff.
That all is going to besomething that's going to help
you with this taper, in gettingthrough it, because it is very
likely that some of, dependingon how long you've been on these
drugs, that gray matter isdepleted and we know that
(41:22):
mindfulness and our next pillar,which is going to be movement.
Those are two things thatcreate gray matter in the brain
over time.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (41:27):
So we're going to move on to movement.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (41:28):
Look at my transitions today.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (41:30):
That was great , that was fantastic.
You're on point today.
Jen what happens when you don'twrite shit down, people.
That's right, that's right.
So movement is the next pillar,and I call it movement because
I hate exercise.
The word exercise implies thatyou have to go somewhere.
I feel like we live in thisweird world that the only
(41:51):
exercise that counts is if yougo to a gym of some sort.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (41:54):
I know I was in that world many, many
years.
Me too, I used to Just why myadrenals were fucked Right
Exactly.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (42:01):
Well, that's that's.
This is a really goodconversation, because you know
the HIIT workouts and all thosethings when you're in a med
taper are not going to serve youvery well at all.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (42:10):
As a matter of fact, they're going to
make this probably harder, canyou talk a little bit about that
science, terry, like withpeople, just give a little
snippet on what's actuallyhappening when you're doing the
HIIT, when you're doing theCrossFit, when you're doing the
super heavy, heavy, highintensity workout.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (42:25):
You're engaging all your stress
hormones Like you're engagingall of that, You're firing all
of that.
So if you were to look at likewe'll go back to Jen's cortisol
curve that she was talking aboutbefore you were doing HIIT and
all of that stuff, I was HIITCrossFit.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (42:42):
I was a CrossFitter multiple times a
week half marathons.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (42:47):
Well, even back in the day, when I was
training for half marathons overand over and over and over, I
would never stop not training.
It was constant and I didn'tfeel great.
But everyone said this is whatyou're supposed to do to feel
good.
But when you're stressing yourbody and you're stressing your
brain, doing all of those heavyhitting, hardcore workouts, you
(43:11):
are not restoring anything.
You're constantly just instress.
What do you have?
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (43:16):
Oh, her cortisol graph yeah.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (43:17):
So if you guys get to look at this on YouTube.
So she's showing her cortisolgraph.
The curve should be in green.
So green would be typicalnormal curve.
Her green is lower.
It's a curve.
You got a little bit of curve,but it's in the blue category,
which is a low curve, hedging onflat actually.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (43:38):
Yeah, this is where we started.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (43:40):
When you wake up in the morning, your cortisol
is supposed to be the highest.
When you go to bed, it'ssupposed to be the lowest.
So, conversely, when you wakeup in the morning, your
melatonin is supposed to be thelowest, while your cortisol is
the highest to get you to wakeup, and in the evening your
melatonin is supposed to be thehighest and cortisol the lowest.
A lot of people have this curvealmost backward, and so
(44:02):
sometimes the cortisol pops upin the evening.
So that's another thing tothink about too.
So if you're doing yourCrossFit or whatever after work
at 5 pm, you're firing yourcortisol, making it so it's
harder for you to sleep andthings like that after work.
So the wind down period for you, so it's just while you're in
this process of recovering yourbrain.
(44:25):
That's why the word movement isdifferent, because it is slower
, it is walking, it is yoga, itis restorative things.
Um, it's not running 10 miles aday, you know, it's not
crossfitting all the time.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (44:42):
It's hard right Like.
That was probably some of themost difficult advice I received
, um when we, when we, wentthrough this.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (44:49):
I was pissed.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (44:51):
I was like you think I am going to cut
out caffeine and I am going tostop working out.
I don't think so bitch Like.
That was like okay, but overtime, right, I started to do it
and I started to do it slowlyand I noticed a huge difference
because I was I, you know,you're reducing adrenal fatigue
guys, Um, especially if this issomething that you do a lot of
(45:14):
Um and I will guarantee you thatpretty much if we were to run
cortisol curves on anybody thatcomes, I have never seen a
perfect cortisol curve yet.
Yeah, like somebody had donemine now cause I'm feeling like
you know it might be better.
It feels really good now but mycurve sucked ass.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (45:29):
It was horrible.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (45:30):
Like I don't, I look at it and I'm like
look at all the low, low, low,low, low low.
Oh, there's a big red arrowShit, what's?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (45:36):
happening.
It was really interesting.
There was a physician on TikTokand he was talking about mental
health medication and he saidI'm physically fit, he ran ultra
marathons, right, so he was anultra marathoner and all these
things and he goes, but I wasdepressed so it was okay that I
went on medication.
(45:57):
I'm thinking, dude, it's theultra marathoning Like you're,
you are stressing yourself out,your cortisol is terrible, Not
to mention you know the life ofof a physician you know is hard
enough.
Then you do all that.
That appears to be healthy,right, and you're a healthy
weight and you're eating right,and you're doing all these
things, but you're really justtaxing your body even further.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (46:19):
So, yeah , yeah, so so I think the idea,
the, the, the idea of what doesmovement look like?
Okay, and that pillar, I had toredefine that right.
For me, movement was going tothe gym multiple times a week,
like I said I was doing CrossFit.
I'm running a lot Like even ifI wasn't training for something.
I'm running, you know, four orfive miles every single day and
(46:40):
how does that actually workagainst the body versus bringing
in what you said I think is areally great viewpoint the word
restorative.
What does restorative movementlook like?
Could it be some form of anexercise?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (46:53):
Well, sure, what does restorative movement
look like?
Could it be some form of anexercise?
Well, sure, but walking counts,yoga counts, stretching counts.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (47:09):
Deep breathing counts Like going
outside.
All the walking, like I thinkabout all the walking I did
before I had this job, where Istill a lot, which sucks I hate
that about this, right.
So that's where I had to switchsome things.
But all the walking I did, yeah, miles a day across
institutions.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (47:23):
Oh yeah, you did yeah.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (47:24):
Spread out for years and years.
You know, to go from one end ofthe prison to the other end of
the prison, it's at least a halfa mile walk, you know.
And just all the movement,right, that's movement.
Guys, going for a walk in theevenings for 30 minutes, 20, 30
minutes, taking your dog for awalk, like that is movement.
This all counts.
So this is where all that like,we are getting the
cardiovascular health part ofthis moving just by moving our
(47:46):
bodies.
So it doesn't have to be.
I'm a gym rat and, in fact, forthose of you who are looking to
do a taper and you are whatwe're calling a gym rat, right,
that's what I was a fucking gymrat.
I would really give someconsideration to that and what
it might be actually doing toyour adrenals, because you're
(48:07):
kicking out a ton of adrenaline.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (48:10):
All the time.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (48:10):
All the time and consider what time of
the day you work out too, guys.
That is important.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (48:15):
Well, and I think about, I tend to find the
more organic times and thingsthat you can do throughout the
day that are movement related.
So if you're working at a deskjob like I've got guys that do
pushups and sit-ups and thingslike that on the hour, every
hour they're doing these things.
So I also had somebody who wasa horseback rider and we were
(48:37):
talking about movement and Ididn't know they were a
horseback rider because theywere complaining that they
didn't go to the gym and I waslike well, what else do you do?
Well, I just ride horses.
How often do you ride horses?
Well, a couple hours a day.
And I was like that's enough.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (48:56):
That's actually extremely taxing on the
body.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (49:00):
Yes, exactly, but because it wasn't in a gym.
I'm not doing things in a gymit doesn't fit the narrative.
It wasn't enough.
So it's just interesting.
So I think movement and a lot ofpeople just don't move at all.
So I just like to walk now.
I walk with my dog, linus, allthe time, but I think a lot of
people just don't move at all.
(49:20):
So the key is to just dosomething.
And if you're waiting for themotivation fairy to visit you,
she's not visiting you.
She doesn't visit me either andshe's a real bitch about that.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (49:33):
She'll come on January 1st and do her
little bitch trickery for 13days and then it's done.
And then it's done, and thenyou give up on the 13th of
January.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (49:41):
Because it's like swimsuit season coming up
and then you're like oh no, butanyway so yes, and then she's
done, then she's gone.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (49:55):
We're not talking diet culture here,
guys.
We are doing everything in theopposite realm of that.
I've got a few people who dojobs like we do and we sit a lot
during the day and they wentand got themselves those nice
little walking things that goright under their desk.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (50:01):
Oh, yeah, the walking pad.
Yeah, I wish I could do that,but I think it would be weird
for me to walk while I'm talking.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (50:07):
I actually asked one of my clients
about it one day I was likekind of just pretend walking and
I'm like does this look weird?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (50:17):
Like does it distracting, Like if I did this
for 20 minutes, would it be okaywith you?
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (50:19):
Cause I yeah, they were like it's fine,
dad, but honestly, I think oneof the things the home run hit
to this is exercise is we areputting the word movement on it,
and it's about bringing moremovement into your day, even if
it's for five or 10 minutesduring the day.
There's a reason that there'sso much science behind employers
now that are trying to dobetter ergonomic things for
(50:41):
their people when they'reworking.
Trying to give guess what.
You have to go take a 10 minutebreak.
There's a reason for that.
Take advantage of it, becausethis does make a really big
difference.
It's a lifestyle, remember.
So we're starting to bring intoour brain that there are things
other than going to the gym for90 minutes that are part of our
lifestyle, that are going to behealthy and helpful, and it's
(51:01):
so much more doable.
It's so much more doable, so Ithink that that's maybe the home
run ticket to the movement isso many things.
So stop classifying it as I'vegot to go to the gym for 90
minutes.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (51:15):
It's only this one thing.
It's only the one thing.
Yes.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (51:19):
Yeah.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (51:19):
All right.
Well, I think that that is agood wrap up for today.
The before you taper.
There's a.
There's a few more nuggets inthere, but I think we're running
out of time, so we're going tohave to stick that in part two
that I wanted to talk about.
So that is the 30-day warmup toyour medication taper by the
book.
Here it is 30, 90.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (51:40):
She meant to say 90, but she's just
so excited about her book.
It's our 90-day warmup.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (51:43):
Oh, I'm sorry, Did I say 30 before?
Again, you did, but it's fine.
Therapist Jenn Schmitz (51:47):
90 days Numbers are tough, it's okay.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (51:49):
The three-month warmup.
Sorry about that, guys.
By the book by the book, you'llappreciate it and make sure you
turn it into part two, whenwe're going to talk about our
best tips for a successful taper, when you're actually in your
taper.
All right, well, if you've hungout with us so far, this has
(52:11):
been the Gaslit Truth Podcast.
Please like, share, comment,subscribe and send us your
gaslit truth atthegaslittruthpodcast at
gmailcom.
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