June 10, 2025 • 61 mins
What happens when institutions weaponize psychiatric care to silence whistleblowers? In this eye-opening conversation, former community college professor Gina Fournier shares her traumatic experience with what she terms "psychiatric human trafficking" – a harrowing journey that began when she questioned academic standards at her workplace.
Gina's story unfolds like a dystopian nightmare – she was "suicide swatted" by her employer after speaking out, resulting in forced detention at a psychiatric facility where she received virtually no evaluation or meaningful treatment. The clinical certificates authorizing her confinement were riddled with irregularities, including one signed by a doctor who never examined her. Most tellingly, her release came not when she was deemed "well," but when her insurance coverage ran out.
The aftermath has been equally disturbing. Permanently labeled with code "48" in law enforcement systems, Gina describes years of ongoing retaliation, including additional suicide swatting incidents when she's sought justice from elected officials. Her testimony raises profound questions about the intersection of institutional power and psychiatric authority – and how easily mental health designations can be used to strip individuals of their credibility and rights.
This conversation isn't just about one woman's ordeal. It's a sobering examination of how psychiatric labels can be weaponized against those who challenge authority, particularly women. It's a cautionary tale about the dangers of involuntary commitment without proper safeguards, and the lasting damage such experiences inflict. For anyone navigating mental health challenges or supporting someone in crisis, Gina's message is clear: peer support might be safer than institutional psychiatric help, which too often causes more harm than good.
If this episode leaves you questioning the systems we've entrusted with our most vulnerable citizens, that's exactly the point. Share this conversation to help shine light on psychiatric abuses that continue to happen behind closed doors, even in 2025.
Are you tired of being gaslit and want to DEEP THROAT some more truth? We want to hear from you! Message us your gaslit stories at thegaslittruthpodcast@gmail.com
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Dr. Teralyn:
Therapist Jenn:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jennifer Schmitz (00:02):
You may have been gaslit into being a victim
of psychiatric human trafficking.
Do you know what psychiatrichuman trafficking is?
Neither do we, but we're aboutto find out.
We are your whistleblowingshrinks, dr Teralyn and
therapist Jen, and you havelanded on the Gaslit Truth
podcast.
Today we have a very specialguest, gina Fournier,
de-classroomed community collegetenured English teacher, who is
(00:24):
going to tell us her harrowingstory of the psychiatric
persecution.
The story is definitely not forthe faint of heart everyone, so
that is the warning you'regoing to get, so let's jump into
this.
Welcome, gina.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (00:37):
Well, thank you so much, therapist Jen and
Dr Terralyn.
I am delighted and grateful.
I just heard you about a weekago when you spoke with the so
important Robert Whitaker fromMad.
Gina Fournier (00:50):
America and I was immediately emailing to say
okay, she found some random linksomewhere that I'm not even
sure where she found it, and,like and like, scheduled herself
on the show.
Yeah, on a Wednesday.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (01:07):
Who provided it to me.
I said thank you?
Jennifer Schmitz (01:10):
Yes, well, we're happy to have you here,
gina.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (01:17):
Well, I am happy to have this opportunity.
And what is psychiatric humantrafficking?
Jennifer Schmitz (01:21):
Oh, my gosh.
Yeah, we need to know this.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (01:23):
I wish I wasn't the one to have to coin
the term and explain it.
So I was involuntarily civillydetained.
I was locked up in a loony bin.
I spell it like the WarnerBrothers cartoon because the
wardens are daffy duck.
I'm normally a humorous personand hopefully I won't be crying
(01:45):
during this session, becausepsychiatric human trafficking is
nothing you want any part of.
So you understand what humantrafficking is and it's usually
considered in terms of sexworkers or maybe even forced
factory work.
But in the past few years theattorney general here in the
(02:05):
state of Michigan currently hername is Dana Nessel she charged
John Geddert, a gymnastinstructor, with human
trafficking in relation with theLarry Nassar story.
You might recall the horrifyingLarry Nassar story.
He was the doctor who sexuallyabused hundreds, hundreds of
(02:32):
female gymnasts in Michiganbefore authorities finally
listened to the young women.
So after Larry Nassar I believeit was timeline after Larry
Nassar was charged and put injail, the attorney general of
the state of Michigan charged agymnast instructor with human
(02:54):
trafficking and the idea wasthat he told the girls you have
an injury, you need to go to thedoctor who's going to sexually
abuse you.
And the state of Michiganattorney general said that's
human trafficking.
You're going to use these girlsfor money.
So I said wait a minute.
I was suicide swatted.
Gina Fournier (03:15):
Can you wait before you do that, before you
say that we need a definition ofwhat that means as well?
Suicide swatted.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (03:22):
All right.
Well, you've heard of swatting.
Gina Fournier (03:28):
No, like I had to look it up, I legitimately had
to look it up.
So we need to get basic,because if I didn't know,
there's people that don't knowit either.
So go ahead.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (03:34):
Yep.
Swatting is when people makefalse calls to the police.
They might say that house is onfire, they may say something,
but whatever they say is wrong.
They're trying to send a SWATteam type response to a home in
order to mess things up and it'sbeen happening in the last few
(03:54):
years to politicians.
It's been the news as SWATing,but I found the term online.
Other people have been suicideSWATing.
So in this case someone callsthe police, calls the dispatch
and says this person's suicidal.
You better go get the crazylady.
My employer, my hostileemployer can I name names?
(04:19):
That's up to you.
Jennifer Schmitz (04:21):
It's your call , lady.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (04:22):
Oakland Community College, the largest
community college in Michigan,after a year of harassing me as
a perceived dissident of readingabout ridiculous things,
reading, reading.
I wanted to talk about howstudents weren't really reading.
And this was way back in 2013and before and it was before AI.
(04:48):
I wanted to say you know,really, the students aren't
reading.
Shouldn't we talk about it?
They're earning diplomas butthey don't actually read.
And now the situation is reallybad, I believe.
But anyways, that was perceivedas dissidence because I said
you know, the teachers need totell the truth here.
It's our job to tell the truth,but others weren't interested.
(05:13):
So I was suicide swatted after ayear of psychological abuse
with the aim of ending my career.
In that year, I was sent to twohack shrinks and even my lawyer
said oh, you better go to thehack shrinks to try to keep your
job.
And I had no interplay withpsychiatry.
I hadn't sought psychiatry andI thought how would it make
(05:35):
sense to go to the psychiatrist?
How is this going to work?
Isn't this just going to be asetup?
And it was my own lawyer helpeddo me in.
I paid him to mess up the case.
Gina Fournier (05:47):
I never should have gone to those high-achs
ranks, who, of course, just toreme to pieces as far as, like,
(06:08):
some employers telling you to goseek help, right Like go seek
help and then using that help,seeking against you.
I've even heard of employerswho you have to sign away your
I'm going to say your right toconfidentiality within that help
and psyche vows and things likethat.
Well, we do that a lot in theaddiction space actually.
Jennifer Schmitz (06:28):
Yeah, I was just going to say that.
Gina Fournier (06:30):
But I was thinking mental health.
But that does happen in theaddiction space too, which is
really interesting, becauseyou're supposed to be getting
help to be better and to show upto work, be better I'm air
quoting that if anybody saw thatbut then it turns out to be
weaponized against you.
That very help that you got Isthat what you're saying happened
(06:50):
to you?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (06:51):
Absolutely, absolutely.
The school hired an interim HRdirector just to take me out,
and he had already gone to theSupreme Court to try and fire
another community collegeEnglish teacher, which he didn't
succeed in doing.
He didn't succeed in ruiningthe guy's life, but he had
(07:14):
already used sexism as a tool toreally beat up another English
teacher and with me, he chosepsychiatry as a weapon to take
me down, and it was extremelyeffective.
You can, as a male in power ora person in power, use
psychiatry even in 2013 and 2012, and I'm sure, still now to
(07:39):
dismantle a person's life,particularly if they're a female
.
My husband had just died from along illness and I had no
children of any age to defend me.
I was targeted and psychiatrywas used like a loaded gun on me
.
Jennifer Schmitz (07:57):
So the suicide swatting that you were just
talking about when you weredefining this, so that became a
part of the reality from theschool and that they were making
claims that you were unsafe,that you were a harm to yourself
.
So then those claims then ledto some of these steps that were
then taken, even in terms ofgoing to seek out help for that.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (08:22):
Well, the timeline is so messy, which is
why it's hard.
In an hour I couldn't even tellmy story in one memoir.
It would have to be up to theloony bin.
And then what's happened to mesince trying to get justice is
even worse, which is why my bagsare so bad today.
So first, face to face, thisguy said you know, based on
(08:42):
nothing, you might be a schoolshooter.
And my lawyer said that who'swho.
William McQueen, the SCOTUStested teacher crusher.
Interim HR director.
Gina Fournier (08:57):
Got it.
Can you tell she's an Englishteacher?
Yeah, Can you guys.
Can you tell them just a?
Jennifer Schmitz (09:02):
minute.
I mean, the descriptive wordsare just on point.
And they are on point on ourwebsite, by the way.
Everybody go check that out.
It's so fascinating.
I can't stop reading becauseit's just engaging.
It's very engaging, but yourdescriptive words are fantastic.
So okay, keep going.
Gina Fournier (09:16):
Gina.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (09:16):
So this person said I had a lawyer sitting
next to me and his jaw dropped.
He had no recourse, because youcan't defend against something
that doesn't exist.
They didn't do any like.
There are tests.
If you really think someone isdangerous, you can hire a firm
and say do we have a schoolshooter here?
None of that happened, but heonly said that to my face In
(09:38):
writing.
He said there have been claimsthat you're acting erratically.
Gina Fournier (09:43):
No proof no police report.
What does that mean?
Acting erratically, Exactly.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (09:50):
So for a year, from April 2012 till when I was
suicide swatted, february 2013,.
I was harassed with hackshrinks.
I was eventually pulled fromthe classroom.
I wasn't paid but I wasn'tfired and they were trying to
make me quit.
And after they suicide swattedme February 22nd 2013,.
(10:13):
Top cop gets on the phone tothe dispatch crazy lady, go get
her.
And they came and got me andtook me away for a week
illegally.
Then I did have to quit becauseyou could not work for an
employer that does this to you.
So I was suicide swatted.
Terry McCauley top cop was toldby this HR director to call
(10:36):
dispatch.
I have the calls.
He said.
A woman with bushy hair.
A woman with bushy hair.
Jennifer Schmitz (10:45):
See, this is the 80s coming back to haunt you
it's the 80s.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (10:49):
It's also sexism, which is still around
today.
I've never heard someone say Ihave bushy hair, curly hair,
frizzy hair.
My nickname in school was fro.
Gina Fournier (11:00):
I'm never bushy you're like that's a new one.
That's not me.
You're like that's not me.
My hair is never bushy.
You're like that's a new one.
That's not me.
You're like that's not me.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (11:10):
My hair is not bushy, it's so ridiculous.
It's curly and frizzy.
Thank you, yes.
So when you are a policeofficer, the chief of police for
the state's largest communitycollege, and you call Livonia
Dispatch and say this woman'scrazy, you better go get her
they will.
That is suicide swatting,because I literally wrote on
Facebook I am trying to save mylife and I heard the ambulance
(11:37):
coming as I am typing.
I am trying to save my life.
I'm often sarcastic, but I wasnot sarcastic about saving my
life.
I wanted to sue and win theschool, but my lawyer screwed up
.
Gina Fournier (11:50):
So that's what you meant by your life, right,
I'm trying to save my career,I'm trying to save me from this.
This is the part that I want totalk about briefly, because
context matters in everything.
If somebody would have saidwhat do you mean by I'm trying
(12:10):
to save my life?
You would have said everythingI've worked for everything I do,
my career, my essence, all ofthis.
I'm battling this battle.
You weren't battling a well,you were, and and you weren't a
psychological battle to stayalive.
You were.
You were battling a physicalbattle to keep what you've
(12:32):
earned Right.
And so this is this is where Ithink people get so freaking,
weirded out about.
When somebody says I'm tryingto save my life, well, that
automatically means you'retrying to end it, you know.
Jennifer Schmitz (12:44):
Yeah, but you know what?
The system itself does nofavors, which is why what you're
describing, gina, like it'slike the ultimate setup because,
you're not going to have thechief of police or the dispatch
officers that are going to sitdown and really go into those
questions.
Okay, these are.
That's not what's going tohappen, because it doesn't work
that way.
Gina Fournier (13:04):
But you know what I have in the course of my
private practice.
I have called the police forsomeone who I believed was
actually suicidal, and they getthere and they talk and they ask
questions and they don't takethem away.
Jennifer Schmitz (13:18):
Yeah, but is there a governing body behind
that that's trying to set yourclient up?
No, no no.
Gina Fournier (13:23):
But what I'm saying, that's what that's how
I'm talking about this in termsof like a typical would be you
would actually go there and talkto the person, right?
Not just?
Jennifer Schmitz (13:33):
So that didn't happen for you, Gina.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (13:34):
No, Um, I use the freedom of information
access act, FOIA.
I don't know if you're familiarwith that.
It's a really important toolwhere you can get police reports
.
They'll redact things that theywant to redact and police
reports are a nightmare to beginwith.
But I got all the policereports and they didn't have
(13:57):
body cams on, but they had adashboard cam.
It was less than six minutesfrom the time they arrived and
started circling.
All of a sudden I had heard theambulance.
As I'm literally typing, I'mtrying to save my life, I hear
an ambulance in the backgroundand I'm getting really scared.
And then, not too much later, Isee police circling my house on
(14:20):
foot and I literally thinkthey're coming for my computer
on foot and I literally thinkthey're coming from my computer.
I've been posting all thedocuments on Facebook from the
school.
That morning documents had beenremoved from my Facebook.
I have been hacked this wholetime.
I was hacked on that day.
The school documents I had putup, for whatever reason, were no
(14:43):
longer there and I was pissedoff.
This was just the start of overa decade of very suspicious
activity.
So I'm like I'm trying to savemy life.
I hear the ambulance.
(15:03):
Cops are surrounding me.
I said I want this to stop, andI meant I want the school's
harassment to stop.
I don't want my life to end.
I just said I'm trying to savemy life and I will win against
the school.
I am not suicidal, I'm brazen.
I am not suicidal, I'm brazen.
Gina Fournier (15:25):
I'm not suicidal, I'm brazen and I have really
good language skills.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (15:39):
But if you don't listen they don't count
and unfortunately I have reallybeen engaged with about 50
police in my story, which youwill not be able to hear many
details, but I appreciate this.
They're sexist, the police inthis country, even the few
females that I encounteredextremely sexist.
They just wanted to come andtake me away.
Now it happened to be snowingthat day.
(15:59):
It was February in Michigan.
It took about 45 minutes tocross the town of Livonia, my
hometown, from the home where Iwas renting to what I call St
Mary Merciless Human TraffickingMental Ward or the Catholic
Fuckatorium, which has now beenrenamed Trinity Health.
(16:20):
It's one of the largest, if notthe largest, catholic hospital
chain in the country, insomething like 27 states, and, I
think, a very big reason why Ican't get anyone in politics to
listen to me and help me,because the Catholics are too
strong and there are ways thatpoliticians can still accept
(16:44):
secret donations in Michigan.
I don't have proof for that,but I've been through way too
much.
Gina Fournier (16:51):
Oh, I know diocese are very strong, like
yeah the power, the power thatthey have over things, not just
Catholic, but any denomination.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (17:04):
And people still defer to the Catholics,
especially when they have money,like they're building a new
psychiatric something or anothernear the Grand Rapids area.
And of course the politicianswant to say you know, we're
behind mental health care.
Jennifer Schmitz (17:19):
So, gina, you were there.
For how long?
I was there for a week.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (17:23):
So it takes 45 minutes to cross town.
I was assigned a psychiatristand I'm skipping ahead a little
bit I saw her less than 45minutes in the entire week I was
there.
Gina Fournier (17:34):
I believe that it took me more time to cross town
.
Jennifer Schmitz (17:36):
I thought you were going to say about 20
minutes.
I thought you were going to say10, but anyway.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (17:41):
In fact, this okay.
So I get to the emergency roomand they take me to a back door.
Like why am I going to the backdoor?
I'm taken into this area withno lights on.
It's an office area with nopeople behind the desk, no
medical staff and no patients,and I'm like what the hell is
(18:04):
this?
I'm terrified because it's likethe setting of a horror show.
You know how hospitals areoverly lit and that's kind of
obnoxious.
Gina Fournier (18:11):
Well, you've never been to this type of thing
before.
So yeah, there's automatic fear, Right?
What are they going to do?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (18:20):
The first thing was address me.
They had no intention offollowing the state of Michigan
laws, which were written in 1974and need a little updating.
They had no intention of it andit was all like college
students what was teaching?
Running around undressing me,putting me in a room with a
guard and no one ever evaluatedme An intern, a first year
(18:45):
intern and I had to look this uplater.
Nicole Shattuck talked to mefor about three sentences and I
said I hope you have a heart,mind and a soul.
Unfortunately, she didn't.
That woman shackled me, knockedme out with drugs.
I was never evaluated by thewhite male who signed the
(19:07):
clinical certificate.
That's the legal paper form inMichigan.
You need a clinical certificateby two doctors.
The intern didn't sign onebecause she didn't have legal
standing.
But she locked me up withoutevaluation and she shackled me
and knocked me out because Iasked for phone calls.
And she shackled me and knockedme out because I asked for
(19:27):
phone calls.
But, you're allowed, I don'tknow where my body was for five
to six hours on February 22nd2013.
I have partied in my life.
I'm not a major partier, but Inever passed out in my life as a
teenager or a young personwhere I didn't know where I was
for five to six hours.
Only criminal psychiatry hasdone that to me.
(19:52):
So the police show up at myhouse about 10 am.
I get to the emergency room,into the psychiatric ward like
about 6 or 7 pm and I'm comingout of a drug-induced super and
(20:14):
I meet my assigned psychiatristwho says, oh, you're still under
the influence of the drugs.
We'll evaluate you another time.
Except she lied of the drugs,we'll evaluate you another time.
Except she lied.
She filled out the secondclinical certificate that night.
They timed it around 7.30 pmand she wrote it in pencil.
(20:35):
Under what circumstances in2013, could you imagine that a
doctor would write a legal formwhich is also a medical report,
in pencil?
None, I have an idea.
When I next saw her, this was aFriday.
I didn't see her again untilTuesday.
(20:58):
She told me she left for theweekend.
Until Tuesday she told me sheleft for the weekend.
I think she wrote it in the cardriving to Pennsylvania in
pencil.
Yep.
Jennifer Schmitz (21:15):
State law says you're supposed to see this
psychiatrist every day.
So you didn't see this fourdays.
You didn't see any four days Iwant see any four days.
Gina Fournier (21:21):
I want to say something, though, because I
know it where we are like youmight not see a psychiatrist
over the weekend, like if you,if you are, uh, civilly
committed, right, that's onlyyou you won't get discharged on
a saturday or sunday.
You won't really see manypeople on saturday, it's like.
It's like the only time framethat matters is monday through
friday.
You can only be in crisisMonday through Friday, cause
(21:44):
that's the only time you'reactually going to see anybody.
So if you get a commitment for,or a whole that's, the weekend
hours are don't matter, they'renot part of it, you know she's
got four days.
Jennifer Schmitz (21:55):
She comes back Tuesday and she's so.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (21:59):
She's so strong in her ability to rape me
over as I call it brain rapeand break the law.
She tells me she goes out oftown, and I'm sitting there.
By this point I realized I haveto play the game so I don't
call her out, I don't make a bigscene, I don't throw a fit
(22:19):
because I'm playing the game.
By this point.
Nothing the Catholics didhelped me at all.
There was no semblance of help.
It was all harm Everything theydid was harm.
Gina Fournier (22:36):
Well, if I had to ask you a question, what kind
of help do you think you neededat that point?
Exactly, that's right.
That was my point.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (22:44):
Yeah, the doctors, the psychiatrists, all
moonlighted.
No psychiatrist showed up untilafter 5 pm, even Monday through
Friday.
So during the day in this itwas a small I don't know how
large these things can be, butit was like a unit with two
hallways that crossed and with anurse desk in the center.
(23:06):
So during the day I called them, inmates just wandered the
halls looking for their doctors.
Sounds just like a prison.
It was because there were barson the window and we never got
to go outside.
Gina Fournier (23:19):
Even inmates get to go outside.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (23:20):
We didn't get to go outside.
Even inmates get to go outside.
We didn't get to go outside.
No exercise, no actual therapy.
I called it coloring with theCatholics.
At night, after supposed thingslike group therapy and the
kindergarten art therapy, wewould have a presentation.
The first presenter I call herher first name was Teresa.
(23:41):
I call her St Teresa.
She was the most reasonableperson there.
She said check your drugs thatthey're forcing you to have.
It's possible they could killyou with drug interaction.
Make sure this hospital doesn'tkill you.
Gina Fournier (23:57):
She's telling you to check your drugs Right.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (24:01):
Mostly the nighttime presentations were
ridiculous, like here.
I am a college professor, apublished author we would get.
I call them mimeographs becauseremember the old days before
Xerox was used, when I was atthe Catholic hospital I'm sorry,
the Catholic school associatedwith this Catholic hospital the
mimeograph machine.
I still have one, an eight by11 piece of paper, different
(24:24):
smiley faces with differentemotions.
You might be angry or you mightbe confused.
So one presentation was likethe handouts Are you angry?
Are you confused?
Okay, there were second graders.
Jennifer Schmitz (24:39):
And you during this time.
Gina, just to go back to thedrugs thing, because we talk a
lot about that on the show thedrugs that you were taking.
What was it?
Do you know what it was thatthey were giving you?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (24:49):
Well, they were giving me, they were trying
to give me things like Depakote.
I have that all written down.
I have all my drugs.
Gina Fournier (24:55):
Did you know this at the time, though?
Did you know, right, yeah?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (24:59):
Yes, and I didn't take the drugs.
I didn't take the drugs.
I didn't know about psychiatry.
I didn't know about theineffectiveness of the drugs.
At best, placebos cause harm.
Sure, I didn't know any of this, but I'm like I can't trust
these, so you, you didn't takeany of the medications.
I didn't swallow them.
They get you had to line up forthe meds.
Oh gosh, inmate following yep.
(25:21):
But then I met a woman who toldme they won't let me out.
They keep telling me they'regonna let me out, but they check
my blood levels and they say my, I don't have enough drug in me
, which I think was bullshit.
But the inmates were treated sobadly.
They were treated so badly.
People were told we're gonnalet you out.
And then they didn't let youout.
And I watched this game and Ilearned that I'm going to have
(25:44):
to play this game and escapefrom this place.
And really the bottom line is Igot out after a week because
the way it is, insurance paysfor like five days and then you
have to ask again.
And they didn't bother to askagain.
They said well, we've milkedher enough.
Gina Fournier (26:03):
So wait.
So ultimately, the danger toself didn't matter when the
payer ran out.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (26:10):
No.
Gina Fournier (26:10):
Then suddenly you're cured, miraculous
recovery and let her out.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (26:16):
Yeah.
Gina Fournier (26:16):
She's good to go now.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (26:18):
She's good to go now, based on the fact that
that I mean I didn't eventhreaten to sue them.
They don't know anything.
My medical records are soridiculous.
They're so scant.
Basically, the woman who tookoff for Pennsylvania, my
assigned psychiatrist justrepeated what one nurse wrote in
(26:38):
the emergency room.
They just repeated the samestuff over and over.
They don't have anything aboutmy dead husband.
They don't know that I went toLadywood high school, steps away
from this loony bin.
Ladywood high school was builtby the same Felicia nuns that
built this, this hospital.
I thoroughly reject Catholicism.
This woman knew nothing aboutmy life.
(27:00):
This entire ward knew nothingabout my life because they
didn't ask Once they had my body.
Me didn't matter, I didn'tmatter one bit.
I was thoroughlypsychiatrically human trafficked
for money about $6,000 andchange.
They had my shoes.
(27:21):
I didn't have a winter coatbecause the police abducted me
in my pajamas.
They wouldn't let me out.
They made money off of me.
Gina Fournier (27:32):
Until they didn't .
That's the trafficking part.
Right, that's the whole deal.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (27:38):
Once the money ran out, you didn't mean
anything to them anymore exactlythey would have had to ask
again yeah, my Cadillacteacher's insurance and prove it
.
Okay, and by that time theyknew they had broken the law on
let's see.
Friday, saturday, sunday,monday, tuesday, like the fifth
(27:58):
day I was in, I met someonecalled the patient's rights
advocate oh yeah, gross misnomer.
As you know, jennifer Gorman,in my horrible story at this
point I've complained so much tothe state what has happened to
her.
The state has given her a jobas the top patient's rights
advocate at the statepsychiatric hospital for the
(28:22):
forensic criminal supposing notpeople in Saline, michigan.
She has risen to the top basedon my complaints.
There's a lot of crap in mystory.
But so I meet her and she givesme the first clinical
certificate, signed by AndrewMazajka, and I have little golf
pencils, because that's all youcan have in the loony bin and I
(28:45):
write on it who the hell is he?
And I tell her who the hell ishe and she immediately starts to
cover up.
She never gave me the secondclinical certificate because she
probably didn't have it yet,because the woman who wrote it
in pencil on the way toPennsylvania and back probably
(29:05):
hadn't given it to her yet theday before I was sprung, the
lawyer the court-supportedlawyer showed up in her workout
outfit in a hurry to make it tothe gym.
By this point, the inmates manyof whom were regular customers
who really this is so sad whojust went there to get away from
(29:26):
their family.
People would go to get away tothe Sticky Sock Hotel You've
heard that, you know thehospital socks, sticky Sock
Hotel, the Sticky Sock Vacation.
People would go there to escapetheir families or their jobs.
But then they would run outknowing I can't necessarily get
out when I want to get out and Iknow I can't go in front of a
(29:46):
lawyer.
The other inmate said do notsay you want to go in front of a
lawyer, because I know whatyou're going to say you could be
put on drugs, you know, lockedaway for even longer.
So the lawyer shows up in hersweatpants and I'm like, no, I'm
not going to pursue anythingbecause this point I've been
(30:06):
told they're going to let me outthe next day because they're
not going to milk the insuranceanymore.
No, they don't say that thatvery lawyer was being.
There was like an expose asthis lawyer getting involved
into abusive conservative shows.
(30:28):
So I'm certainly glad I didn'ttry to put my faith in this
lawyer's hand.
So the next day when I'mpromised relief, my psychiatrist
doesn't show up because nopsychiatrist shows up during the
day and a nurse I've never metsaid I'll just say no, there was
(30:51):
no pretense of care did theyeven talk to you about like do
you you want to hurt yourself?
Gina Fournier (30:59):
Do you want to end your life?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (31:03):
But at one point someone asked do you want
your Catholic mother to visitNow?
I was estranged from myCatholic mother at this time.
It should be noted that theCatholic Felician nuns who built
this hospital, who builtLadywood high school, also built
the church where my momattended, in which I was raised
(31:25):
as a Catholic, and I saidabsolutely not.
How much more pain do you wantto give me?
She made me go to Catholicschool.
I escaped Catholicism 30 yearsago.
Catholics have now held mecriminally and are
psychiatrically humantrafficking me, and the last
person I want to watch me inthis pain is my Catholic mother,
(31:47):
right.
Yet one of the doctors wrote inhis notes in broken English
mother says she has cut down inthe past.
Cut down in the past what?
Jennifer Schmitz (32:01):
does that mean ?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (32:01):
What does that mean?
Does it mean slit her wrist?
I have never slit my wrist.
I have never cut down in thepast.
I said I was 48 years old.
I said I don't want my motherinvolved.
The Catholics didn't listen.
I don't even know how they gother number.
Gina Fournier (32:20):
Well, I mean that's illegal anyway, Like they
can't just call people on yourbehalf because it's your mom.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (32:26):
I asked them to call my therapist.
I was going to a therapist totry to help me deal with all
this stuff.
I asked them to call this guy.
So this guy's name was Dr Johnand then he had like three
consonants at the beginning ofhis name, so he just called
himself Dr John.
And then he had like threeconsonants at the beginning of
his name, so he just calledhimself Dr John.
(32:47):
So people didn't completelyscrew up his name all the time.
I got written up for beingcrazy because I called him Dr
John and they never did call himDr John.
What it's very common.
Gina Fournier (32:58):
I got to say it's very common for because I
remember this in where we workedit's very common for psychology
, for doctorates like me to dodoctor and then their first name
.
That's a very common practice.
So basically, anything you saidor did was weaponized as being
(33:21):
abnormal, weird.
Off your chain, all of it.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (33:27):
It was like in the morning I was still in my
pajamas, I hadn't brushed myteeth, I hadn't taken a shower.
I got written up for beingdisheveled.
It was like high school.
I got written up, it was usedagainst me, I was disheveled and
of course they love that phrase.
Flight of ideas.
Yes, it doesn't matter what yousay they will use the phrase
(33:49):
flight of ideas.
Gina Fournier (33:52):
That and word salad were two big ones.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (33:54):
I remember they used word salad on me
because usually that maybethat's with the um, supposed, um
, schizophrenics and my supposeddiagnosis was bipolar oh,
interesting, you got a big,hefty diagnosis from that from a
guy I never met right, andthat's not even what the two
hack shrinks from occ said.
(34:16):
They said I had personalitydisorders.
Of course they couldn't evenyou know in.
Of course they couldn't evenyou know in their criminality.
They couldn't uh, you knowdecide what the hell is wrong
with this woman.
And they couldn't, couldn't,accept the truth.
Nothing, there wasn't.
Yeah, I mean, I'm not perfect,but I wasn't suicidal, I wasn't
(34:37):
a school shooter.
I wasn't a danger to myself.
I wasn't a danger to anyoneelse.
I was able a danger to anyoneelse.
I was able to take care ofmyself.
They made it more difficult forme to take care of myself.
Gina Fournier (34:47):
And to prove it, yeah, yeah.
And to prove it, because youdidn't have access to showers
like you would.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (34:53):
Right, I didn't.
Gina Fournier (34:55):
You need a lot of cream rinse for this hair, I
was going to say, and your bushyhair did not help you at all.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (35:01):
I didn't have cream rinse.
Jennifer Schmitz (35:03):
You didn't have cream rinse.
I'm just trying to figure outthis is going to sound like such
a naive question, gina, becauseyou've been living this hell
for so fucking long, but thiswhole time you're talking, I'm
sitting here trying to figureout what exactly the threat was
(35:24):
that you posed in the firstplace.
Right, because the face.
I get the whole like readingthing right and like to the
school, like making a commentabout the students not reading.
But what?
What is the threat that they?
That was trying to be coveredup in the first place?
Like, why were you such athreat to them?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (35:42):
You mean the school?
Yeah, well, I had two bullyteachers, or two or three bully
teachers.
It was a really AucklandCommunity College at the time
had five campuses.
It has four campuses now, okay.
And so we had Englishdiscipline spread over four or
five English departments and ourEnglish department had under 10
(36:03):
people in it.
It was a really small number ofpeople and, unfortunately, like
three of seven were bullies.
And Mr Online Shakespeare, who Iwill see in hell, wanted to
keep teaching endless sectionsof online Shakespeare to
students who, of course, I'msure were not reading
Shakespeare online at home alone.
(36:24):
Right, positive, and he wantedto keep doing that.
And union teachers hired afterme wanted to keep teaching
literature courses instead ofthe hard work of Composition 1
and Composition 2.
Do you remember Bull Durhamwith my love Susan Sarandon?
Well, she taught compositionone and composition two, and so
(36:45):
did I.
But those are heavy liftingbecause you have to actually
make them write research papers.
That's heavy lifting.
If you have a literature classand you just ask them to read
your favorite author, that's notthe same lifting.
So I was up against teacherswho wanted to control the
teaching schedule.
Okay, I was on, I was.
(37:06):
I'm brazen.
It was one against the othersbecause the others fell in line.
But I kept fighting back.
I won the right to teachliterature courses, literature
courses.
But I was going to file anothergrievance against one of my
(37:27):
co-workers when they hired.
Jennifer Schmitz (37:27):
William McQueen to curse me.
Okay, so, yeah, so you were thewhistleblower and they weren't
liking having any part of it.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (37:35):
And I think this William McQueen guy, in my
stupidity, in any compassion Ihave left in me, I think even he
didn't realize how well hisplan would work and how much he
would not just destroy my careerbut destroy my life.
Psychiatry can kill you.
Yeah, yes it can?
Gina Fournier (37:55):
Yes, this reminds me of because you'd mentioned
Mad in America and so you'vewritten some posts for Mad in
America, which is pretty cool,but the book Mad in America,
when you're talking about how,right, how, if you guys haven't
read Mad in America, please readthe book.
Only do it when you're in agood, healthy brain space,
(38:15):
because it's a tough book toread.
But when you're talking aboutlike being, I'm going to just
call it incarcerated.
When you are committed aboutbeing, I'm going to just call it
incarcerated when you arecommitted.
Jennifer Schmitz (38:22):
It's full asylum living.
It's full asylum living.
Gina Fournier (38:25):
But you had to learn what to say and do, how to
play the game.
How to play the game to lookmentally well.
Well, I'm saying look mentallywell because they wanted you to
look a certain way and act acertain way and say certain
things right To get out.
It reminds me of some of thosestories in the book.
Jennifer Schmitz (38:45):
Mad in America .
Yes, I was going to say you'rethe first third of that book.
Gina Fournier (38:49):
Yes, when they would drown people until they
submitted and said I'm notmentally ill anymore, I'm too
tired to fight back, or I'm justnot fighting back anymore.
And then they'd be like fightback, or I'm just not fighting
back anymore.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (39:03):
And then they'd be like cured, You're
good, and I'm like this isexactly your story, and not just
your story, but I believe it'sstories of many people.
I've been fighting this butmore recently, before the new
administration, with the oldadministration, the department
of justice opened a civil rightsinvestigation into the state of
(39:26):
Michigan psychiatric hospitalsfor very much what happened to
me.
I have been trying to get myelected officials Debbie
Stabenow, Gary Peters, nowAlyssa Slotkin to write new
federal legislation aboutinvoluntary detainment.
(39:49):
It should be tracked likecriminal detainment so we know
how many women versus men, howmany poor black men versus rich
white men are locked up.
Gina Fournier (40:00):
Bushy haired women versus straight haired
women.
Just kidding.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (40:03):
Exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly.
But no one will talk to me.
No one will talk to me.
There has been great effort tobury my story.
What's happened to me since iseven more unbelievable.
Except you guys understand howbad it is inside psychiatry.
My story outside strainseveryone's credibility.
(40:25):
How much crap you can receive,the retaliation is real.
It is real.
It is real.
There's a group called KiwiFarms.
They're an international trollfarm.
They'll do things like whenthere was a mass murder in New
Zealand.
They put the footage of themurder online.
(40:46):
They're known internationallyand they also like to go.
But the retaliation isincredible, including my elected
officials.
I will strain credibility.
(41:08):
I have been suicide swatted bytwo elected officials in
Michigan in the last few yearsand I tried to file police
reports and I just got thepolice report back.
Gina is a known 48.
(41:28):
To assume is code for not case.
Broad with pushy hair.
Jennifer Schmitz (41:34):
Yeah, yeah, psychologically not well.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (41:37):
And he didn't write a report.
I have been beat down like youwouldn't believe.
I did not believe the crap.
They jailed me to silence me.
Gina Fournier (41:52):
This, you know doing this to somebody is enough
to make them unwell.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (41:58):
Yes, very unwell.
Gina Fournier (41:59):
Yeah, I mean it's .
It's enough to make a personvery unwell and I think that's a
risk, as you're, as you'retalking, I'm thinking about.
I don't know if you know muchabout the addiction space, but
the the criminal behavior in theaddiction space seems a lot
like this, and so in SouthernCalifornia, southern Florida,
(42:21):
they've really cracked down oninpatient addiction treatments,
but the mental health spacereally is left unlooked at.
In my opinion.
I don't think it's looked atenough as similar to the body
brokering that goes on in theaddiction space, which is what
(42:42):
you're calling the humantrafficking.
Body brokering.
Same thing it's when you bringin unwell people and you use
them for their insurancebenefits, and in the addiction
space they often make themrelapse so they can get more.
So they were looking for you torelapse or be enough to have
another stay Right.
(43:04):
So I mean, because we tradepeople for dollars all the time
Empower, empower, yep.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (43:14):
One thing I was going to bring up.
Oh God, there's so many littletidbits.
I lost my train of thought.
To be honest, that terrifies mebecause I assume that I'm going
to get locked up for it.
I'm in real danger, withoutequal protection.
Gina Fournier (43:33):
Hold on.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (43:33):
What is it that you keep doing that people
keep calling you for, like theywell I asked my elected
representatives for help with agdana nestle to get an
investigation, because thestatute of limitations is 25
years for human trafficking yeah, so I'm still well within it
and um.
So I've been asking for helpwith that and they're really
(43:59):
against it.
They're really against it and Ialso have a lot of strange
things going on.
Like I said, with hacking Forone year.
I still don't know if it'sincompetence or hack.
I think it might beincompetence.
I received, ironically enough,painfully enough, about 450
texts from like 15 to 20supervisors at the local state
(44:24):
jail asking me, as if I was ajail worker, to work overtime,
trying to ask for help fromKristen McDonald-Revett and Dan
Kildee for help with Dana Nesselto read and investigate.
The Catholics admitted guilt in2013, and I still can't get
(44:45):
justice.
They admitted guilt in writingthat I wasn't seen every day by
my psychiatrist.
I have three sets of medicalfiles that don't make you know.
They're not aligned.
The Catholics never releasedall the emergency room files For
some reason.
I got a copy of full medicalrecords from the feds that
(45:05):
totally proved my claims.
Gina Fournier (45:07):
But see, this is this, is this is that other
conversation that I keepthinking about, like, and I know
that you went in because ofother things, but you were
deemed mentally ill, mentallyincompetent essentially, but
can't even if you were, even ifyou were, even if you were
suicidal at that time andmentally incompetent at that
(45:28):
time.
Let's just play that out.
A person can't ever get better.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (45:32):
Right, exactly , it's ridiculous.
Gina Fournier (45:34):
That's it.
Ever get better.
Right, exactly.
It's ridiculous.
That's, that's just it.
Like this to me, this is partof the conversation is oh, once
you've been labeled this, onceyou go inpatient for that, like
that label sticks with you yeah,you're always, always a 48,
you're always a 48 absolutely so.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (45:53):
I actually I think it was probably
incompetence, but I got a lot oftexts, ironically, asking me to
work in a jail after theyfailed me for not really
stalking a cop up north.
I have a lot of bad luck.
I was talking to him, which Ididn't do.
(46:15):
I had to go to jail and losethat house to get out of that
cop's reign.
But you're right, it neverleaves you.
And, oh my God, I am losing mytrain of thought because I know
that we've lost chronologicalorder.
Sorry about that and I don'thave time to explain all my
stuff, but my electedrepresentatives refused to even
(46:37):
look at the texts.
They just said she's crazy, howcould she be getting texts from
a jail?
And so one of them called thelocal loony bin and said will
the local loony bin please callthe police and ask for a welfare
check?
And the loony bin said well, wedon't know her, but we'll call
the police and ask for a welfarecheck.
And the loony bin said well, wedon't know her, but we'll call
(46:58):
the police anyways.
Hello, if I have money, I couldsue so many people.
So the police show up andthey've been here before because
I cry and I can, as a brazenfemale I can cry pretty loud and
the neighbors are pretty close.
So the police show up andthey're just like oh, it's Gina,
(47:18):
she's a no 48.
And they leave.
I call back Dan Kildee.
I'm like I told you I neededassistance.
Suicide swatting is the lastthing I need.
Dan Kildee sent another cop outon the same day saying I
threatened his life.
Now I wasn't arrested because Ididn't threaten his life, but
they are really trying tocontain the harassment.
(47:38):
And the same thing with KristenMcDonald-Bervet.
I said I need assistance, Ineed assistance, what is going
on?
And she just skipped to.
Let's contain her.
Gina Fournier (47:51):
You need to get the fuck out of Michigan.
Is what you need?
I do need to get the fuck outof Michigan is what you need.
Jennifer Schmitz (47:54):
I know I'm looking up 48 right here and I'm
reading as you're talking.
I was kind of curious to knowwhat this all is.
Yeah, it talks about the 48 isactually more.
They're talking about themonths in which there's legal or
clinical context going on withsomebody, but it talks about a
timeframe that's used in anumber put on people that is, a
history of hospitalization,incarceration, violent behavior,
(48:14):
noncompliant behavior withrecommended treatment
interventions as a factor to putlike this code on somebody and
what it means.
Gina Fournier (48:25):
I love the non-compliant part.
Jennifer Schmitz (48:27):
Yes, and of course the state of Michigan has
an entire, you know, likethere's a whole program that has
put put together around this,this, this number, and how they
get to it, michigan for the 48.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (48:39):
Yeah Well, I will be talking to Troy
Cunningham sheriff.
I'm sure I've talked to him.
The sheriff nicer than the guythey set out.
I keep losing.
The one thing I wanted to say Iam really screwed up.
I mean I'm 61.
I feel 71.
I was hospitalized for a weekwith asthma after I was suicide
(49:02):
swatted more recently the secondtime by the politician.
This stuff affects your mentalbeing, of course, and it affects
your physical being, of course,and I have a real problem.
I just can't give up all of asudden.
I can't afford to retire.
My future is dangerous.
I will be homeless.
(49:23):
I will be locked up again.
I will be put, maybe best, in anursing home prematurely.
I can't just give up the fight,yeah.
Gina Fournier (49:38):
What does it mean about you to keep fighting?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (49:42):
I'm sorry say that again.
Gina Fournier (49:43):
What does it mean about you to keep fighting?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (49:48):
I cannot let the Catholics ruin my life in
this way.
I am oftentimes humorous andsarcastic, less so lightly, but
Jesus raped me.
Yeah, letting Catholics whobelieve in virgin birth and
rising from the dead, which Ibelieve to be delusional, fine
(50:12):
if you believe it, but I believeit to be delusional.
Catholics should have nothingto do with civil detainment.
Zero, zero.
They're delusional.
How are they going to judgewho's delusional?
Gina Fournier (50:28):
It's true.
I mean, there's a whole spotabout religious things in the
DSM, isn't there?
Unless it's a religious orcultural delusion and things
like that.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (50:38):
That's interesting yeah, psychiatry
sprung from exorcism.
It's so abhorrent thatpsychiatry is considered um in
its biochemical state, uh,presentable.
It's like we had lobotomy andthen we all had lobotomies and
we forgot about.
Psychiatry brought us lobotomy.
(51:00):
It's like people think, oh,it's all better now she must be
crazy.
She deserved it.
Psychiatry never makes mistakes.
Gina Fournier (51:09):
Yeah Well, psychiatry has evolved right
Like that's what I know what Imean like like we're not like
that anymore.
Psychiatry has evolved,psychology has evolved.
I'm like but but yeah, we'restill taught the same things
from 100 years ago, you know how?
Jennifer Schmitz (51:25):
how is it like you're?
What you're talking aboutdidn't happen in 1930.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (51:30):
Here, gina, like right and here's what I've
been trying to remember.
So in the last year a few womenwere told got ahold of some
local reporter, wdib orsomething, one of the main
stations out of Detroit andthere was a doctor in the
Pontiac, michigan area who waspre-signing clinical
(51:52):
certificates, pre-signing,pre-signing so that the hospital
could more easilypsychiatrically human traffic
people.
Even that expose.
The attorney general didnothing.
The state of Michigan attorneygeneral ignored it.
How could she do that?
And now what's going to happento this DOJ investigation now
(52:16):
that Trump's in?
Well, probably nothing.
But it is so hard.
So people should know.
Yes, if you need help, if youare suicidal, don't commit
suicide.
But you know what?
Not a therapist, not apsychiatrist.
Talk to a friend.
Be very careful before you giveup your liberty and call the
(52:38):
police or go to a psychiatricward.
You might not be able tocontrol when you leave.
You might come out more harmed.
I've been in writers groups.
I read Mad in America.
Chances are you will be moreharmed and not helped.
Peer support might be your bestavenue.
Jennifer Schmitz (53:01):
Terry and I talk about that like offline.
We haven't spent a ton of timein this podcast on that, but
offline we talk about that a lot.
And what's even more intriguingabout it, gina, is that we are
therapists.
Right, we have this code thatwe follow and these ethics that
we follow and these safetyprotocols that we follow, and
(53:24):
the hardest fucking part istelling people sometimes to go
do those things Becauseethically we know that we need
to offer them something, but wealso know, like flat out, that
most of the time it is going tocause more fucking harm to
people.
And this is it you.
(53:45):
What you are saying is um, atleast for me and I can speak for
myself that is such a hardspace to be in to have to, to
have to, to be in that spotwhere we are.
Yep, here I am.
We have a license on the line,we have ethics we need to follow
.
Just from a human standpoint,fuck the ethics.
From a human standpoint, I wantto give somebody advice that
(54:08):
goes beyond what I can offer,just as the talk therapist here,
to be able to help them, andthere's what I want to be able
to say to them.
And then there's what theinstitution itself tells us we
need to give people as resources, but those resources are super
harmful for a lot of people.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (54:28):
Super harmful.
Jennifer Schmitz (54:29):
And so I just want to applaud you for saying
that, because that take-homemessage you just said, I mean
even on the other end of it,coming from a therapist, I have
a hard time with that spacebecause I don't disagree with
you either.
Who do I go to?
Who should I talk to?
We had Angie Peacock on thisshow not too long ago.
She said the same thing.
(54:50):
Actually, we were on her showand she was rapid fire asking us
questions about it.
When is it appropriate to reachout for certain types of help?
And I caught myself fumblingover the answer, because I know
what happens when most people gointo an inpatient facility.
Gina Fournier (55:08):
Because there's that, what do they call it?
Cognitive dissonance?
For us, like, there's that twocompeting things at the same
time.
Jennifer Schmitz (55:14):
There's two things that we battle against.
And yes, I want to be able totell people who's close to you,
who are your support systems,that you trust.
Gina Fournier (55:23):
But also where we are anyway, we have some really
solid resources.
So, if you're listening closeto where we're from, there are
peer support, respite placesaround us, which I think is
pretty sweet, and I think thosewere developed probably as a
response to the trauma that somepeople have endured in
inpatient settings.
(55:43):
So I think there's some ofthose places that are coming
around and I know where we are.
We're pretty resource rich andI get that in Michigan, maybe
not so much or other areas ofthe country.
But I think it's an importantconversation not to dissuade
people from getting help ifyou're feeling so desperate, but
(56:05):
also to not weaponize livedexperiences against someone.
What you were going through waspretty terrible, right,
stressful, awful, I know.
Jennifer Schmitz (56:17):
You're still living it.
Gina Fournier (56:18):
Yeah Well, I know what I was like when I was
going through a stressful timelike that, like I was pretty
erratic, I was pretty off thechain, I was all these things,
but nobody ever once thought toinstitutionalize me.
That's fucking stupid.
Like, instead, just talk to meTalk.
Nobody asked you questions.
Nobody asked you the questionsthat they needed to ask you.
(56:41):
They just went off of somebodyelse who had a position of power
, other people in positions ofauthority and power.
Their word was taken over yoursevery time, and I think that's
the slippery slope and that'sthe message and that's the power
differential that we talk aboutquite a lot.
Everybody holds power and weneed to know that, and everybody
(57:02):
holds their own agency and weneed to reclaim that.
So our time here isunfortunately coming to a quick
close, which I wish I wouldn't,but it is.
Thank you so much for sharingthis.
By the way, I love it whenconsumers come on.
I think their stories arepowerful and often like what
(57:25):
this stuff happens still today?
It's 2025.
The answer to that is yes, itdoes still happen and it's 2025,
which is why Jen and I show upto you every single week
(57:51):
bringing you another episode ofthe gaslit truth so that we don
later.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (57:54):
I am still fighting for justice and I am
the object of incredibleretaliation.
At one point, the Catholichospital a security guard called
me, trying to scare me off myclaims, and said the FBI were
following me.
I can't even get an answer ifthe FBI were ever following me.
Jennifer Schmitz (58:14):
It sounds nuts , they weren't.
Gina Fournier (58:16):
They got bigger fish to fry.
Jennifer Schmitz (58:18):
Yeah, I'm just saying, there's you know,
national security and shit.
Not this little frizzy-hairedFrench last name woman from
Michigan.
Gina Fournier (58:29):
They're not Nope.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (58:31):
I have developed a psychological penis
slicing machine and for all thewhite men who have made my life
hell, it will be psychologicallyinstalled and they will dream
every night until they're deadthat Jesus with the crucifix
will enact the revenge.
Because I'm going to go real.
(58:51):
You know she's going rogue.
She's going rogue.
I'm going to go rogue in.
You know she's going rogue.
She's going rogue on my house.
Jesus raped me.
It's a metaphor fornon-evaluation by Dr Andrew
Zajka.
As a modern female, I shouldnot be mistreated this badly and
have to wait this long foracknowledgement and justice.
For the truth, the guy didn'tevaluate me.
(59:14):
I was psychiatrically humantrafficked.
I am not the danger, I am notthe crazy one.
My society is crazy anddangerous with Catholicism,
psychiatry and corruption.
Gina Fournier (59:29):
Well, if you've hung out with us for this long
on the Gaslit Truth podcast,please like, comment, share,
subscribe.
Only give us five stars.
And if you on the Gaslit TruthPodcast, Please like, comment,
share, subscribe.
Only give us five stars.
And if you have a gaslit truththat you would like to share,
please do so by emailing us atthegaslittruthpodcast at
gmailcom.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (59:47):
And that's a wrap.
Gina Fournier (59:48):
Thank you both very much.
You may have been gaslit into being a victim
of psychiatric human trafficking.
Do you know what psychiatrichuman trafficking is?
Neither do we, but we're aboutto find out.
We are your whistleblowingshrinks, dr Teralyn and
therapist Jen, and you havelanded on the Gaslit Truth
podcast.
Today we have a very specialguest, gina Fournier,
de-classroomed community collegetenured English teacher, who is
(00:24):
going to tell us her harrowingstory of the psychiatric
persecution.
The story is definitely not forthe faint of heart everyone, so
that is the warning you'regoing to get, so let's jump into
this.
Welcome, gina.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (00:37):
Well, thank you so much, therapist Jen and
Dr Terralyn.
I am delighted and grateful.
I just heard you about a weekago when you spoke with the so
important Robert Whitaker fromMad.
Gina Fournier (00:50):
America and I was immediately emailing to say
okay, she found some random linksomewhere that I'm not even
sure where she found it, and,like and like, scheduled herself
on the show.
Yeah, on a Wednesday.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (01:07):
Who provided it to me.
I said thank you?
Jennifer Schmitz (01:10):
Yes, well, we're happy to have you here,
gina.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (01:17):
Well, I am happy to have this opportunity.
And what is psychiatric humantrafficking?
Jennifer Schmitz (01:21):
Oh, my gosh.
Yeah, we need to know this.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (01:23):
I wish I wasn't the one to have to coin
the term and explain it.
So I was involuntarily civillydetained.
I was locked up in a loony bin.
I spell it like the WarnerBrothers cartoon because the
wardens are daffy duck.
I'm normally a humorous personand hopefully I won't be crying
(01:45):
during this session, becausepsychiatric human trafficking is
nothing you want any part of.
So you understand what humantrafficking is and it's usually
considered in terms of sexworkers or maybe even forced
factory work.
But in the past few years theattorney general here in the
(02:05):
state of Michigan currently hername is Dana Nessel she charged
John Geddert, a gymnastinstructor, with human
trafficking in relation with theLarry Nassar story.
You might recall the horrifyingLarry Nassar story.
He was the doctor who sexuallyabused hundreds, hundreds of
(02:32):
female gymnasts in Michiganbefore authorities finally
listened to the young women.
So after Larry Nassar I believeit was timeline after Larry
Nassar was charged and put injail, the attorney general of
the state of Michigan charged agymnast instructor with human
(02:54):
trafficking and the idea wasthat he told the girls you have
an injury, you need to go to thedoctor who's going to sexually
abuse you.
And the state of Michiganattorney general said that's
human trafficking.
You're going to use these girlsfor money.
So I said wait a minute.
I was suicide swatted.
Gina Fournier (03:15):
Can you wait before you do that, before you
say that we need a definition ofwhat that means as well?
Suicide swatted.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (03:22):
All right.
Well, you've heard of swatting.
Gina Fournier (03:28):
No, like I had to look it up, I legitimately had
to look it up.
So we need to get basic,because if I didn't know,
there's people that don't knowit either.
So go ahead.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (03:34):
Yep.
Swatting is when people makefalse calls to the police.
They might say that house is onfire, they may say something,
but whatever they say is wrong.
They're trying to send a SWATteam type response to a home in
order to mess things up and it'sbeen happening in the last few
(03:54):
years to politicians.
It's been the news as SWATing,but I found the term online.
Other people have been suicideSWATing.
So in this case someone callsthe police, calls the dispatch
and says this person's suicidal.
You better go get the crazylady.
My employer, my hostileemployer can I name names?
(04:19):
That's up to you.
Jennifer Schmitz (04:21):
It's your call , lady.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (04:22):
Oakland Community College, the largest
community college in Michigan,after a year of harassing me as
a perceived dissident of readingabout ridiculous things,
reading, reading.
I wanted to talk about howstudents weren't really reading.
And this was way back in 2013and before and it was before AI.
(04:48):
I wanted to say you know,really, the students aren't
reading.
Shouldn't we talk about it?
They're earning diplomas butthey don't actually read.
And now the situation is reallybad, I believe.
But anyways, that was perceivedas dissidence because I said
you know, the teachers need totell the truth here.
It's our job to tell the truth,but others weren't interested.
(05:13):
So I was suicide swatted after ayear of psychological abuse
with the aim of ending my career.
In that year, I was sent to twohack shrinks and even my lawyer
said oh, you better go to thehack shrinks to try to keep your
job.
And I had no interplay withpsychiatry.
I hadn't sought psychiatry andI thought how would it make
(05:35):
sense to go to the psychiatrist?
How is this going to work?
Isn't this just going to be asetup?
And it was my own lawyer helpeddo me in.
I paid him to mess up the case.
Gina Fournier (05:47):
I never should have gone to those high-achs
ranks, who, of course, just toreme to pieces as far as, like,
(06:08):
some employers telling you to goseek help, right Like go seek
help and then using that help,seeking against you.
I've even heard of employerswho you have to sign away your
I'm going to say your right toconfidentiality within that help
and psyche vows and things likethat.
Well, we do that a lot in theaddiction space actually.
Jennifer Schmitz (06:28):
Yeah, I was just going to say that.
Gina Fournier (06:30):
But I was thinking mental health.
But that does happen in theaddiction space too, which is
really interesting, becauseyou're supposed to be getting
help to be better and to show upto work, be better I'm air
quoting that if anybody saw thatbut then it turns out to be
weaponized against you.
That very help that you got Isthat what you're saying happened
(06:50):
to you?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (06:51):
Absolutely, absolutely.
The school hired an interim HRdirector just to take me out,
and he had already gone to theSupreme Court to try and fire
another community collegeEnglish teacher, which he didn't
succeed in doing.
He didn't succeed in ruiningthe guy's life, but he had
(07:14):
already used sexism as a tool toreally beat up another English
teacher and with me, he chosepsychiatry as a weapon to take
me down, and it was extremelyeffective.
You can, as a male in power ora person in power, use
psychiatry even in 2013 and 2012, and I'm sure, still now to
(07:39):
dismantle a person's life,particularly if they're a female
.
My husband had just died from along illness and I had no
children of any age to defend me.
I was targeted and psychiatrywas used like a loaded gun on me
.
Jennifer Schmitz (07:57):
So the suicide swatting that you were just
talking about when you weredefining this, so that became a
part of the reality from theschool and that they were making
claims that you were unsafe,that you were a harm to yourself
.
So then those claims then ledto some of these steps that were
then taken, even in terms ofgoing to seek out help for that.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (08:22):
Well, the timeline is so messy, which is
why it's hard.
In an hour I couldn't even tellmy story in one memoir.
It would have to be up to theloony bin.
And then what's happened to mesince trying to get justice is
even worse, which is why my bagsare so bad today.
So first, face to face, thisguy said you know, based on
(08:42):
nothing, you might be a schoolshooter.
And my lawyer said that who'swho.
William McQueen, the SCOTUStested teacher crusher.
Interim HR director.
Gina Fournier (08:57):
Got it.
Can you tell she's an Englishteacher?
Yeah, Can you guys.
Can you tell them just a?
Jennifer Schmitz (09:02):
minute.
I mean, the descriptive wordsare just on point.
And they are on point on ourwebsite, by the way.
Everybody go check that out.
It's so fascinating.
I can't stop reading becauseit's just engaging.
It's very engaging, but yourdescriptive words are fantastic.
So okay, keep going.
Gina Fournier (09:16):
Gina.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (09:16):
So this person said I had a lawyer sitting
next to me and his jaw dropped.
He had no recourse, because youcan't defend against something
that doesn't exist.
They didn't do any like.
There are tests.
If you really think someone isdangerous, you can hire a firm
and say do we have a schoolshooter here?
None of that happened, but heonly said that to my face In
(09:38):
writing.
He said there have been claimsthat you're acting erratically.
Gina Fournier (09:43):
No proof no police report.
What does that mean?
Acting erratically, Exactly.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (09:50):
So for a year, from April 2012 till when I was
suicide swatted, february 2013,.
I was harassed with hackshrinks.
I was eventually pulled fromthe classroom.
I wasn't paid but I wasn'tfired and they were trying to
make me quit.
And after they suicide swattedme February 22nd 2013,.
(10:13):
Top cop gets on the phone tothe dispatch crazy lady, go get
her.
And they came and got me andtook me away for a week
illegally.
Then I did have to quit becauseyou could not work for an
employer that does this to you.
So I was suicide swatted.
Terry McCauley top cop was toldby this HR director to call
(10:36):
dispatch.
I have the calls.
He said.
A woman with bushy hair.
A woman with bushy hair.
Jennifer Schmitz (10:45):
See, this is the 80s coming back to haunt you
it's the 80s.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (10:49):
It's also sexism, which is still around
today.
I've never heard someone say Ihave bushy hair, curly hair,
frizzy hair.
My nickname in school was fro.
Gina Fournier (11:00):
I'm never bushy you're like that's a new one.
That's not me.
You're like that's not me.
My hair is never bushy.
You're like that's a new one.
That's not me.
You're like that's not me.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (11:10):
My hair is not bushy, it's so ridiculous.
It's curly and frizzy.
Thank you, yes.
So when you are a policeofficer, the chief of police for
the state's largest communitycollege, and you call Livonia
Dispatch and say this woman'scrazy, you better go get her
they will.
That is suicide swatting,because I literally wrote on
Facebook I am trying to save mylife and I heard the ambulance
(11:37):
coming as I am typing.
I am trying to save my life.
I'm often sarcastic, but I wasnot sarcastic about saving my
life.
I wanted to sue and win theschool, but my lawyer screwed up
.
Gina Fournier (11:50):
So that's what you meant by your life, right,
I'm trying to save my career,I'm trying to save me from this.
This is the part that I want totalk about briefly, because
context matters in everything.
If somebody would have saidwhat do you mean by I'm trying
(12:10):
to save my life?
You would have said everythingI've worked for everything I do,
my career, my essence, all ofthis.
I'm battling this battle.
You weren't battling a well,you were, and and you weren't a
psychological battle to stayalive.
You were.
You were battling a physicalbattle to keep what you've
(12:32):
earned Right.
And so this is this is where Ithink people get so freaking,
weirded out about.
When somebody says I'm tryingto save my life, well, that
automatically means you'retrying to end it, you know.
Jennifer Schmitz (12:44):
Yeah, but you know what?
The system itself does nofavors, which is why what you're
describing, gina, like it'slike the ultimate setup because,
you're not going to have thechief of police or the dispatch
officers that are going to sitdown and really go into those
questions.
Okay, these are.
That's not what's going tohappen, because it doesn't work
that way.
Gina Fournier (13:04):
But you know what I have in the course of my
private practice.
I have called the police forsomeone who I believed was
actually suicidal, and they getthere and they talk and they ask
questions and they don't takethem away.
Jennifer Schmitz (13:18):
Yeah, but is there a governing body behind
that that's trying to set yourclient up?
No, no no.
Gina Fournier (13:23):
But what I'm saying, that's what that's how
I'm talking about this in termsof like a typical would be you
would actually go there and talkto the person, right?
Not just?
Jennifer Schmitz (13:33):
So that didn't happen for you, Gina.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (13:34):
No, Um, I use the freedom of information
access act, FOIA.
I don't know if you're familiarwith that.
It's a really important toolwhere you can get police reports
.
They'll redact things that theywant to redact and police
reports are a nightmare to beginwith.
But I got all the policereports and they didn't have
(13:57):
body cams on, but they had adashboard cam.
It was less than six minutesfrom the time they arrived and
started circling.
All of a sudden I had heard theambulance.
As I'm literally typing, I'mtrying to save my life, I hear
an ambulance in the backgroundand I'm getting really scared.
And then, not too much later, Isee police circling my house on
(14:20):
foot and I literally thinkthey're coming for my computer
on foot and I literally thinkthey're coming from my computer.
I've been posting all thedocuments on Facebook from the
school.
That morning documents had beenremoved from my Facebook.
I have been hacked this wholetime.
I was hacked on that day.
The school documents I had putup, for whatever reason, were no
(14:43):
longer there and I was pissedoff.
This was just the start of overa decade of very suspicious
activity.
So I'm like I'm trying to savemy life.
I hear the ambulance.
(15:03):
Cops are surrounding me.
I said I want this to stop, andI meant I want the school's
harassment to stop.
I don't want my life to end.
I just said I'm trying to savemy life and I will win against
the school.
I am not suicidal, I'm brazen.
I am not suicidal, I'm brazen.
Gina Fournier (15:25):
I'm not suicidal, I'm brazen and I have really
good language skills.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (15:39):
But if you don't listen they don't count
and unfortunately I have reallybeen engaged with about 50
police in my story, which youwill not be able to hear many
details, but I appreciate this.
They're sexist, the police inthis country, even the few
females that I encounteredextremely sexist.
They just wanted to come andtake me away.
Now it happened to be snowingthat day.
(15:59):
It was February in Michigan.
It took about 45 minutes tocross the town of Livonia, my
hometown, from the home where Iwas renting to what I call St
Mary Merciless Human TraffickingMental Ward or the Catholic
Fuckatorium, which has now beenrenamed Trinity Health.
(16:20):
It's one of the largest, if notthe largest, catholic hospital
chain in the country, insomething like 27 states, and, I
think, a very big reason why Ican't get anyone in politics to
listen to me and help me,because the Catholics are too
strong and there are ways thatpoliticians can still accept
(16:44):
secret donations in Michigan.
I don't have proof for that,but I've been through way too
much.
Gina Fournier (16:51):
Oh, I know diocese are very strong, like
yeah the power, the power thatthey have over things, not just
Catholic, but any denomination.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (17:04):
And people still defer to the Catholics,
especially when they have money,like they're building a new
psychiatric something or anothernear the Grand Rapids area.
And of course the politicianswant to say you know, we're
behind mental health care.
Jennifer Schmitz (17:19):
So, gina, you were there.
For how long?
I was there for a week.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (17:23):
So it takes 45 minutes to cross town.
I was assigned a psychiatristand I'm skipping ahead a little
bit I saw her less than 45minutes in the entire week I was
there.
Gina Fournier (17:34):
I believe that it took me more time to cross town
.
Jennifer Schmitz (17:36):
I thought you were going to say about 20
minutes.
I thought you were going to say10, but anyway.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (17:41):
In fact, this okay.
So I get to the emergency roomand they take me to a back door.
Like why am I going to the backdoor?
I'm taken into this area withno lights on.
It's an office area with nopeople behind the desk, no
medical staff and no patients,and I'm like what the hell is
(18:04):
this?
I'm terrified because it's likethe setting of a horror show.
You know how hospitals areoverly lit and that's kind of
obnoxious.
Gina Fournier (18:11):
Well, you've never been to this type of thing
before.
So yeah, there's automatic fear, Right?
What are they going to do?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (18:20):
The first thing was address me.
They had no intention offollowing the state of Michigan
laws, which were written in 1974and need a little updating.
They had no intention of it andit was all like college
students what was teaching?
Running around undressing me,putting me in a room with a
guard and no one ever evaluatedme An intern, a first year
(18:45):
intern and I had to look this uplater.
Nicole Shattuck talked to mefor about three sentences and I
said I hope you have a heart,mind and a soul.
Unfortunately, she didn't.
That woman shackled me, knockedme out with drugs.
I was never evaluated by thewhite male who signed the
(19:07):
clinical certificate.
That's the legal paper form inMichigan.
You need a clinical certificateby two doctors.
The intern didn't sign onebecause she didn't have legal
standing.
But she locked me up withoutevaluation and she shackled me
and knocked me out because Iasked for phone calls.
And she shackled me and knockedme out because I asked for
(19:27):
phone calls.
But, you're allowed, I don'tknow where my body was for five
to six hours on February 22nd2013.
I have partied in my life.
I'm not a major partier, but Inever passed out in my life as a
teenager or a young personwhere I didn't know where I was
for five to six hours.
Only criminal psychiatry hasdone that to me.
(19:52):
So the police show up at myhouse about 10 am.
I get to the emergency room,into the psychiatric ward like
about 6 or 7 pm and I'm comingout of a drug-induced super and
(20:14):
I meet my assigned psychiatristwho says, oh, you're still under
the influence of the drugs.
We'll evaluate you another time.
Except she lied of the drugs,we'll evaluate you another time.
Except she lied.
She filled out the secondclinical certificate that night.
They timed it around 7.30 pmand she wrote it in pencil.
(20:35):
Under what circumstances in2013, could you imagine that a
doctor would write a legal formwhich is also a medical report,
in pencil?
None, I have an idea.
When I next saw her, this was aFriday.
I didn't see her again untilTuesday.
(20:58):
She told me she left for theweekend.
Until Tuesday she told me sheleft for the weekend.
I think she wrote it in the cardriving to Pennsylvania in
pencil.
Yep.
Jennifer Schmitz (21:15):
State law says you're supposed to see this
psychiatrist every day.
So you didn't see this fourdays.
You didn't see any four days Iwant see any four days.
Gina Fournier (21:21):
I want to say something, though, because I
know it where we are like youmight not see a psychiatrist
over the weekend, like if you,if you are, uh, civilly
committed, right, that's onlyyou you won't get discharged on
a saturday or sunday.
You won't really see manypeople on saturday, it's like.
It's like the only time framethat matters is monday through
friday.
You can only be in crisisMonday through Friday, cause
(21:44):
that's the only time you'reactually going to see anybody.
So if you get a commitment for,or a whole that's, the weekend
hours are don't matter, they'renot part of it, you know she's
got four days.
Jennifer Schmitz (21:55):
She comes back Tuesday and she's so.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (21:59):
She's so strong in her ability to rape me
over as I call it brain rapeand break the law.
She tells me she goes out oftown, and I'm sitting there.
By this point I realized I haveto play the game so I don't
call her out, I don't make a bigscene, I don't throw a fit
(22:19):
because I'm playing the game.
By this point.
Nothing the Catholics didhelped me at all.
There was no semblance of help.
It was all harm Everything theydid was harm.
Gina Fournier (22:36):
Well, if I had to ask you a question, what kind
of help do you think you neededat that point?
Exactly, that's right.
That was my point.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (22:44):
Yeah, the doctors, the psychiatrists, all
moonlighted.
No psychiatrist showed up untilafter 5 pm, even Monday through
Friday.
So during the day in this itwas a small I don't know how
large these things can be, butit was like a unit with two
hallways that crossed and with anurse desk in the center.
(23:06):
So during the day I called them, inmates just wandered the
halls looking for their doctors.
Sounds just like a prison.
It was because there were barson the window and we never got
to go outside.
Gina Fournier (23:19):
Even inmates get to go outside.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (23:20):
We didn't get to go outside.
Even inmates get to go outside.
We didn't get to go outside.
No exercise, no actual therapy.
I called it coloring with theCatholics.
At night, after supposed thingslike group therapy and the
kindergarten art therapy, wewould have a presentation.
The first presenter I call herher first name was Teresa.
(23:41):
I call her St Teresa.
She was the most reasonableperson there.
She said check your drugs thatthey're forcing you to have.
It's possible they could killyou with drug interaction.
Make sure this hospital doesn'tkill you.
Gina Fournier (23:57):
She's telling you to check your drugs Right.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (24:01):
Mostly the nighttime presentations were
ridiculous, like here.
I am a college professor, apublished author we would get.
I call them mimeographs becauseremember the old days before
Xerox was used, when I was atthe Catholic hospital I'm sorry,
the Catholic school associatedwith this Catholic hospital the
mimeograph machine.
I still have one, an eight by11 piece of paper, different
(24:24):
smiley faces with differentemotions.
You might be angry or you mightbe confused.
So one presentation was likethe handouts Are you angry?
Are you confused?
Okay, there were second graders.
Jennifer Schmitz (24:39):
And you during this time.
Gina, just to go back to thedrugs thing, because we talk a
lot about that on the show thedrugs that you were taking.
What was it?
Do you know what it was thatthey were giving you?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (24:49):
Well, they were giving me, they were trying
to give me things like Depakote.
I have that all written down.
I have all my drugs.
Gina Fournier (24:55):
Did you know this at the time, though?
Did you know, right, yeah?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (24:59):
Yes, and I didn't take the drugs.
I didn't take the drugs.
I didn't know about psychiatry.
I didn't know about theineffectiveness of the drugs.
At best, placebos cause harm.
Sure, I didn't know any of this, but I'm like I can't trust
these, so you, you didn't takeany of the medications.
I didn't swallow them.
They get you had to line up forthe meds.
Oh gosh, inmate following yep.
(25:21):
But then I met a woman who toldme they won't let me out.
They keep telling me they'regonna let me out, but they check
my blood levels and they say my, I don't have enough drug in me
, which I think was bullshit.
But the inmates were treated sobadly.
They were treated so badly.
People were told we're gonnalet you out.
And then they didn't let youout.
And I watched this game and Ilearned that I'm going to have
(25:44):
to play this game and escapefrom this place.
And really the bottom line is Igot out after a week because
the way it is, insurance paysfor like five days and then you
have to ask again.
And they didn't bother to askagain.
They said well, we've milkedher enough.
Gina Fournier (26:03):
So wait.
So ultimately, the danger toself didn't matter when the
payer ran out.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (26:10):
No.
Gina Fournier (26:10):
Then suddenly you're cured, miraculous
recovery and let her out.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (26:16):
Yeah.
Gina Fournier (26:16):
She's good to go now.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (26:18):
She's good to go now, based on the fact that
that I mean I didn't eventhreaten to sue them.
They don't know anything.
My medical records are soridiculous.
They're so scant.
Basically, the woman who tookoff for Pennsylvania, my
assigned psychiatrist justrepeated what one nurse wrote in
(26:38):
the emergency room.
They just repeated the samestuff over and over.
They don't have anything aboutmy dead husband.
They don't know that I went toLadywood high school, steps away
from this loony bin.
Ladywood high school was builtby the same Felicia nuns that
built this, this hospital.
I thoroughly reject Catholicism.
This woman knew nothing aboutmy life.
(27:00):
This entire ward knew nothingabout my life because they
didn't ask Once they had my body.
Me didn't matter, I didn'tmatter one bit.
I was thoroughlypsychiatrically human trafficked
for money about $6,000 andchange.
They had my shoes.
(27:21):
I didn't have a winter coatbecause the police abducted me
in my pajamas.
They wouldn't let me out.
They made money off of me.
Gina Fournier (27:32):
Until they didn't .
That's the trafficking part.
Right, that's the whole deal.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (27:38):
Once the money ran out, you didn't mean
anything to them anymore exactlythey would have had to ask
again yeah, my Cadillacteacher's insurance and prove it
.
Okay, and by that time theyknew they had broken the law on
let's see.
Friday, saturday, sunday,monday, tuesday, like the fifth
(27:58):
day I was in, I met someonecalled the patient's rights
advocate oh yeah, gross misnomer.
As you know, jennifer Gorman,in my horrible story at this
point I've complained so much tothe state what has happened to
her.
The state has given her a jobas the top patient's rights
advocate at the statepsychiatric hospital for the
(28:22):
forensic criminal supposing notpeople in Saline, michigan.
She has risen to the top basedon my complaints.
There's a lot of crap in mystory.
But so I meet her and she givesme the first clinical
certificate, signed by AndrewMazajka, and I have little golf
pencils, because that's all youcan have in the loony bin and I
(28:45):
write on it who the hell is he?
And I tell her who the hell ishe and she immediately starts to
cover up.
She never gave me the secondclinical certificate because she
probably didn't have it yet,because the woman who wrote it
in pencil on the way toPennsylvania and back probably
(29:05):
hadn't given it to her yet theday before I was sprung, the
lawyer the court-supportedlawyer showed up in her workout
outfit in a hurry to make it tothe gym.
By this point, the inmates manyof whom were regular customers
who really this is so sad whojust went there to get away from
(29:26):
their family.
People would go to get away tothe Sticky Sock Hotel You've
heard that, you know thehospital socks, sticky Sock
Hotel, the Sticky Sock Vacation.
People would go there to escapetheir families or their jobs.
But then they would run outknowing I can't necessarily get
out when I want to get out and Iknow I can't go in front of a
(29:46):
lawyer.
The other inmate said do notsay you want to go in front of a
lawyer, because I know whatyou're going to say you could be
put on drugs, you know, lockedaway for even longer.
So the lawyer shows up in hersweatpants and I'm like, no, I'm
not going to pursue anythingbecause this point I've been
(30:06):
told they're going to let me outthe next day because they're
not going to milk the insuranceanymore.
No, they don't say that thatvery lawyer was being.
There was like an expose asthis lawyer getting involved
into abusive conservative shows.
(30:28):
So I'm certainly glad I didn'ttry to put my faith in this
lawyer's hand.
So the next day when I'mpromised relief, my psychiatrist
doesn't show up because nopsychiatrist shows up during the
day and a nurse I've never metsaid I'll just say no, there was
(30:51):
no pretense of care did theyeven talk to you about like do
you you want to hurt yourself?
Gina Fournier (30:59):
Do you want to end your life?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (31:03):
But at one point someone asked do you want
your Catholic mother to visitNow?
I was estranged from myCatholic mother at this time.
It should be noted that theCatholic Felician nuns who built
this hospital, who builtLadywood high school, also built
the church where my momattended, in which I was raised
(31:25):
as a Catholic, and I saidabsolutely not.
How much more pain do you wantto give me?
She made me go to Catholicschool.
I escaped Catholicism 30 yearsago.
Catholics have now held mecriminally and are
psychiatrically humantrafficking me, and the last
person I want to watch me inthis pain is my Catholic mother,
(31:47):
right.
Yet one of the doctors wrote inhis notes in broken English
mother says she has cut down inthe past.
Cut down in the past what?
Jennifer Schmitz (32:01):
does that mean ?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (32:01):
What does that mean?
Does it mean slit her wrist?
I have never slit my wrist.
I have never cut down in thepast.
I said I was 48 years old.
I said I don't want my motherinvolved.
The Catholics didn't listen.
I don't even know how they gother number.
Gina Fournier (32:20):
Well, I mean that's illegal anyway, Like they
can't just call people on yourbehalf because it's your mom.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (32:26):
I asked them to call my therapist.
I was going to a therapist totry to help me deal with all
this stuff.
I asked them to call this guy.
So this guy's name was Dr Johnand then he had like three
consonants at the beginning ofhis name, so he just called
himself Dr John.
And then he had like threeconsonants at the beginning of
his name, so he just calledhimself Dr John.
(32:47):
So people didn't completelyscrew up his name all the time.
I got written up for beingcrazy because I called him Dr
John and they never did call himDr John.
What it's very common.
Gina Fournier (32:58):
I got to say it's very common for because I
remember this in where we workedit's very common for psychology
, for doctorates like me to dodoctor and then their first name
.
That's a very common practice.
So basically, anything you saidor did was weaponized as being
(33:21):
abnormal, weird.
Off your chain, all of it.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (33:27):
It was like in the morning I was still in my
pajamas, I hadn't brushed myteeth, I hadn't taken a shower.
I got written up for beingdisheveled.
It was like high school.
I got written up, it was usedagainst me, I was disheveled and
of course they love that phrase.
Flight of ideas.
Yes, it doesn't matter what yousay they will use the phrase
(33:49):
flight of ideas.
Gina Fournier (33:52):
That and word salad were two big ones.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (33:54):
I remember they used word salad on me
because usually that maybethat's with the um, supposed, um
, schizophrenics and my supposeddiagnosis was bipolar oh,
interesting, you got a big,hefty diagnosis from that from a
guy I never met right, andthat's not even what the two
hack shrinks from occ said.
(34:16):
They said I had personalitydisorders.
Of course they couldn't evenyou know in.
Of course they couldn't evenyou know in their criminality.
They couldn't uh, you knowdecide what the hell is wrong
with this woman.
And they couldn't, couldn't,accept the truth.
Nothing, there wasn't.
Yeah, I mean, I'm not perfect,but I wasn't suicidal, I wasn't
(34:37):
a school shooter.
I wasn't a danger to myself.
I wasn't a danger to anyoneelse.
I was able a danger to anyoneelse.
I was able to take care ofmyself.
They made it more difficult forme to take care of myself.
Gina Fournier (34:47):
And to prove it, yeah, yeah.
And to prove it, because youdidn't have access to showers
like you would.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (34:53):
Right, I didn't.
Gina Fournier (34:55):
You need a lot of cream rinse for this hair, I
was going to say, and your bushyhair did not help you at all.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (35:01):
I didn't have cream rinse.
Jennifer Schmitz (35:03):
You didn't have cream rinse.
I'm just trying to figure outthis is going to sound like such
a naive question, gina, becauseyou've been living this hell
for so fucking long, but thiswhole time you're talking, I'm
sitting here trying to figureout what exactly the threat was
(35:24):
that you posed in the firstplace.
Right, because the face.
I get the whole like readingthing right and like to the
school, like making a commentabout the students not reading.
But what?
What is the threat that they?
That was trying to be coveredup in the first place?
Like, why were you such athreat to them?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (35:42):
You mean the school?
Yeah, well, I had two bullyteachers, or two or three bully
teachers.
It was a really AucklandCommunity College at the time
had five campuses.
It has four campuses now, okay.
And so we had Englishdiscipline spread over four or
five English departments and ourEnglish department had under 10
(36:03):
people in it.
It was a really small number ofpeople and, unfortunately, like
three of seven were bullies.
And Mr Online Shakespeare, who Iwill see in hell, wanted to
keep teaching endless sectionsof online Shakespeare to
students who, of course, I'msure were not reading
Shakespeare online at home alone.
(36:24):
Right, positive, and he wantedto keep doing that.
And union teachers hired afterme wanted to keep teaching
literature courses instead ofthe hard work of Composition 1
and Composition 2.
Do you remember Bull Durhamwith my love Susan Sarandon?
Well, she taught compositionone and composition two, and so
(36:45):
did I.
But those are heavy liftingbecause you have to actually
make them write research papers.
That's heavy lifting.
If you have a literature classand you just ask them to read
your favorite author, that's notthe same lifting.
So I was up against teacherswho wanted to control the
teaching schedule.
Okay, I was on, I was.
(37:06):
I'm brazen.
It was one against the othersbecause the others fell in line.
But I kept fighting back.
I won the right to teachliterature courses, literature
courses.
But I was going to file anothergrievance against one of my
(37:27):
co-workers when they hired.
Jennifer Schmitz (37:27):
William McQueen to curse me.
Okay, so, yeah, so you were thewhistleblower and they weren't
liking having any part of it.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (37:35):
And I think this William McQueen guy, in my
stupidity, in any compassion Ihave left in me, I think even he
didn't realize how well hisplan would work and how much he
would not just destroy my careerbut destroy my life.
Psychiatry can kill you.
Yeah, yes it can?
Gina Fournier (37:55):
Yes, this reminds me of because you'd mentioned
Mad in America and so you'vewritten some posts for Mad in
America, which is pretty cool,but the book Mad in America,
when you're talking about how,right, how, if you guys haven't
read Mad in America, please readthe book.
Only do it when you're in agood, healthy brain space,
(38:15):
because it's a tough book toread.
But when you're talking aboutlike being, I'm going to just
call it incarcerated.
When you are committed aboutbeing, I'm going to just call it
incarcerated when you arecommitted.
Jennifer Schmitz (38:22):
It's full asylum living.
It's full asylum living.
Gina Fournier (38:25):
But you had to learn what to say and do, how to
play the game.
How to play the game to lookmentally well.
Well, I'm saying look mentallywell because they wanted you to
look a certain way and act acertain way and say certain
things right To get out.
It reminds me of some of thosestories in the book.
Jennifer Schmitz (38:45):
Mad in America .
Yes, I was going to say you'rethe first third of that book.
Gina Fournier (38:49):
Yes, when they would drown people until they
submitted and said I'm notmentally ill anymore, I'm too
tired to fight back, or I'm justnot fighting back anymore.
And then they'd be like fightback, or I'm just not fighting
back anymore.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (39:03):
And then they'd be like cured, You're
good, and I'm like this isexactly your story, and not just
your story, but I believe it'sstories of many people.
I've been fighting this butmore recently, before the new
administration, with the oldadministration, the department
of justice opened a civil rightsinvestigation into the state of
(39:26):
Michigan psychiatric hospitalsfor very much what happened to
me.
I have been trying to get myelected officials Debbie
Stabenow, Gary Peters, nowAlyssa Slotkin to write new
federal legislation aboutinvoluntary detainment.
(39:49):
It should be tracked likecriminal detainment so we know
how many women versus men, howmany poor black men versus rich
white men are locked up.
Gina Fournier (40:00):
Bushy haired women versus straight haired
women.
Just kidding.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (40:03):
Exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly.
But no one will talk to me.
No one will talk to me.
There has been great effort tobury my story.
What's happened to me since iseven more unbelievable.
Except you guys understand howbad it is inside psychiatry.
My story outside strainseveryone's credibility.
(40:25):
How much crap you can receive,the retaliation is real.
It is real.
It is real.
There's a group called KiwiFarms.
They're an international trollfarm.
They'll do things like whenthere was a mass murder in New
Zealand.
They put the footage of themurder online.
(40:46):
They're known internationallyand they also like to go.
But the retaliation isincredible, including my elected
officials.
I will strain credibility.
(41:08):
I have been suicide swatted bytwo elected officials in
Michigan in the last few yearsand I tried to file police
reports and I just got thepolice report back.
Gina is a known 48.
(41:28):
To assume is code for not case.
Broad with pushy hair.
Jennifer Schmitz (41:34):
Yeah, yeah, psychologically not well.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (41:37):
And he didn't write a report.
I have been beat down like youwouldn't believe.
I did not believe the crap.
They jailed me to silence me.
Gina Fournier (41:52):
This, you know doing this to somebody is enough
to make them unwell.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (41:58):
Yes, very unwell.
Gina Fournier (41:59):
Yeah, I mean it's .
It's enough to make a personvery unwell and I think that's a
risk, as you're, as you'retalking, I'm thinking about.
I don't know if you know muchabout the addiction space, but
the the criminal behavior in theaddiction space seems a lot
like this, and so in SouthernCalifornia, southern Florida,
(42:21):
they've really cracked down oninpatient addiction treatments,
but the mental health spacereally is left unlooked at.
In my opinion.
I don't think it's looked atenough as similar to the body
brokering that goes on in theaddiction space, which is what
(42:42):
you're calling the humantrafficking.
Body brokering.
Same thing it's when you bringin unwell people and you use
them for their insurancebenefits, and in the addiction
space they often make themrelapse so they can get more.
So they were looking for you torelapse or be enough to have
another stay Right.
(43:04):
So I mean, because we tradepeople for dollars all the time
Empower, empower, yep.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (43:14):
One thing I was going to bring up.
Oh God, there's so many littletidbits.
I lost my train of thought.
To be honest, that terrifies mebecause I assume that I'm going
to get locked up for it.
I'm in real danger, withoutequal protection.
Gina Fournier (43:33):
Hold on.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (43:33):
What is it that you keep doing that people
keep calling you for, like theywell I asked my elected
representatives for help with agdana nestle to get an
investigation, because thestatute of limitations is 25
years for human trafficking yeah, so I'm still well within it
and um.
So I've been asking for helpwith that and they're really
(43:59):
against it.
They're really against it and Ialso have a lot of strange
things going on.
Like I said, with hacking Forone year.
I still don't know if it'sincompetence or hack.
I think it might beincompetence.
I received, ironically enough,painfully enough, about 450
texts from like 15 to 20supervisors at the local state
(44:24):
jail asking me, as if I was ajail worker, to work overtime,
trying to ask for help fromKristen McDonald-Revett and Dan
Kildee for help with Dana Nesselto read and investigate.
The Catholics admitted guilt in2013, and I still can't get
(44:45):
justice.
They admitted guilt in writingthat I wasn't seen every day by
my psychiatrist.
I have three sets of medicalfiles that don't make you know.
They're not aligned.
The Catholics never releasedall the emergency room files For
some reason.
I got a copy of full medicalrecords from the feds that
(45:05):
totally proved my claims.
Gina Fournier (45:07):
But see, this is this, is this is that other
conversation that I keepthinking about, like, and I know
that you went in because ofother things, but you were
deemed mentally ill, mentallyincompetent essentially, but
can't even if you were, even ifyou were, even if you were
suicidal at that time andmentally incompetent at that
(45:28):
time.
Let's just play that out.
A person can't ever get better.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (45:32):
Right, exactly , it's ridiculous.
Gina Fournier (45:34):
That's it.
Ever get better.
Right, exactly.
It's ridiculous.
That's, that's just it.
Like this to me, this is partof the conversation is oh, once
you've been labeled this, onceyou go inpatient for that, like
that label sticks with you yeah,you're always, always a 48,
you're always a 48 absolutely so.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (45:53):
I actually I think it was probably
incompetence, but I got a lot oftexts, ironically, asking me to
work in a jail after theyfailed me for not really
stalking a cop up north.
I have a lot of bad luck.
I was talking to him, which Ididn't do.
(46:15):
I had to go to jail and losethat house to get out of that
cop's reign.
But you're right, it neverleaves you.
And, oh my God, I am losing mytrain of thought because I know
that we've lost chronologicalorder.
Sorry about that and I don'thave time to explain all my
stuff, but my electedrepresentatives refused to even
(46:37):
look at the texts.
They just said she's crazy, howcould she be getting texts from
a jail?
And so one of them called thelocal loony bin and said will
the local loony bin please callthe police and ask for a welfare
check?
And the loony bin said well, wedon't know her, but we'll call
the police and ask for a welfarecheck.
And the loony bin said well, wedon't know her, but we'll call
(46:58):
the police anyways.
Hello, if I have money, I couldsue so many people.
So the police show up andthey've been here before because
I cry and I can, as a brazenfemale I can cry pretty loud and
the neighbors are pretty close.
So the police show up andthey're just like oh, it's Gina,
(47:18):
she's a no 48.
And they leave.
I call back Dan Kildee.
I'm like I told you I neededassistance.
Suicide swatting is the lastthing I need.
Dan Kildee sent another cop outon the same day saying I
threatened his life.
Now I wasn't arrested because Ididn't threaten his life, but
they are really trying tocontain the harassment.
(47:38):
And the same thing with KristenMcDonald-Bervet.
I said I need assistance, Ineed assistance, what is going
on?
And she just skipped to.
Let's contain her.
Gina Fournier (47:51):
You need to get the fuck out of Michigan.
Is what you need?
I do need to get the fuck outof Michigan is what you need.
Jennifer Schmitz (47:54):
I know I'm looking up 48 right here and I'm
reading as you're talking.
I was kind of curious to knowwhat this all is.
Yeah, it talks about the 48 isactually more.
They're talking about themonths in which there's legal or
clinical context going on withsomebody, but it talks about a
timeframe that's used in anumber put on people that is, a
history of hospitalization,incarceration, violent behavior,
(48:14):
noncompliant behavior withrecommended treatment
interventions as a factor to putlike this code on somebody and
what it means.
Gina Fournier (48:25):
I love the non-compliant part.
Jennifer Schmitz (48:27):
Yes, and of course the state of Michigan has
an entire, you know, likethere's a whole program that has
put put together around this,this, this number, and how they
get to it, michigan for the 48.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (48:39):
Yeah Well, I will be talking to Troy
Cunningham sheriff.
I'm sure I've talked to him.
The sheriff nicer than the guythey set out.
I keep losing.
The one thing I wanted to say Iam really screwed up.
I mean I'm 61.
I feel 71.
I was hospitalized for a weekwith asthma after I was suicide
(49:02):
swatted more recently the secondtime by the politician.
This stuff affects your mentalbeing, of course, and it affects
your physical being, of course,and I have a real problem.
I just can't give up all of asudden.
I can't afford to retire.
My future is dangerous.
I will be homeless.
(49:23):
I will be locked up again.
I will be put, maybe best, in anursing home prematurely.
I can't just give up the fight,yeah.
Gina Fournier (49:38):
What does it mean about you to keep fighting?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (49:42):
I'm sorry say that again.
Gina Fournier (49:43):
What does it mean about you to keep fighting?
Dr. Teralyn Sell (49:48):
I cannot let the Catholics ruin my life in
this way.
I am oftentimes humorous andsarcastic, less so lightly, but
Jesus raped me.
Yeah, letting Catholics whobelieve in virgin birth and
rising from the dead, which Ibelieve to be delusional, fine
(50:12):
if you believe it, but I believeit to be delusional.
Catholics should have nothingto do with civil detainment.
Zero, zero.
They're delusional.
How are they going to judgewho's delusional?
Gina Fournier (50:28):
It's true.
I mean, there's a whole spotabout religious things in the
DSM, isn't there?
Unless it's a religious orcultural delusion and things
like that.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (50:38):
That's interesting yeah, psychiatry
sprung from exorcism.
It's so abhorrent thatpsychiatry is considered um in
its biochemical state, uh,presentable.
It's like we had lobotomy andthen we all had lobotomies and
we forgot about.
Psychiatry brought us lobotomy.
(51:00):
It's like people think, oh,it's all better now she must be
crazy.
She deserved it.
Psychiatry never makes mistakes.
Gina Fournier (51:09):
Yeah Well, psychiatry has evolved right
Like that's what I know what Imean like like we're not like
that anymore.
Psychiatry has evolved,psychology has evolved.
I'm like but but yeah, we'restill taught the same things
from 100 years ago, you know how?
Jennifer Schmitz (51:25):
how is it like you're?
What you're talking aboutdidn't happen in 1930.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (51:30):
Here, gina, like right and here's what I've
been trying to remember.
So in the last year a few womenwere told got ahold of some
local reporter, wdib orsomething, one of the main
stations out of Detroit andthere was a doctor in the
Pontiac, michigan area who waspre-signing clinical
(51:52):
certificates, pre-signing,pre-signing so that the hospital
could more easilypsychiatrically human traffic
people.
Even that expose.
The attorney general didnothing.
The state of Michigan attorneygeneral ignored it.
How could she do that?
And now what's going to happento this DOJ investigation now
(52:16):
that Trump's in?
Well, probably nothing.
But it is so hard.
So people should know.
Yes, if you need help, if youare suicidal, don't commit
suicide.
But you know what?
Not a therapist, not apsychiatrist.
Talk to a friend.
Be very careful before you giveup your liberty and call the
(52:38):
police or go to a psychiatricward.
You might not be able tocontrol when you leave.
You might come out more harmed.
I've been in writers groups.
I read Mad in America.
Chances are you will be moreharmed and not helped.
Peer support might be your bestavenue.
Jennifer Schmitz (53:01):
Terry and I talk about that like offline.
We haven't spent a ton of timein this podcast on that, but
offline we talk about that a lot.
And what's even more intriguingabout it, gina, is that we are
therapists.
Right, we have this code thatwe follow and these ethics that
we follow and these safetyprotocols that we follow, and
(53:24):
the hardest fucking part istelling people sometimes to go
do those things Becauseethically we know that we need
to offer them something, but wealso know, like flat out, that
most of the time it is going tocause more fucking harm to
people.
And this is it you.
(53:45):
What you are saying is um, atleast for me and I can speak for
myself that is such a hardspace to be in to have to, to
have to, to be in that spotwhere we are.
Yep, here I am.
We have a license on the line,we have ethics we need to follow
.
Just from a human standpoint,fuck the ethics.
From a human standpoint, I wantto give somebody advice that
(54:08):
goes beyond what I can offer,just as the talk therapist here,
to be able to help them, andthere's what I want to be able
to say to them.
And then there's what theinstitution itself tells us we
need to give people as resources, but those resources are super
harmful for a lot of people.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (54:28):
Super harmful.
Jennifer Schmitz (54:29):
And so I just want to applaud you for saying
that, because that take-homemessage you just said, I mean
even on the other end of it,coming from a therapist, I have
a hard time with that spacebecause I don't disagree with
you either.
Who do I go to?
Who should I talk to?
We had Angie Peacock on thisshow not too long ago.
She said the same thing.
(54:50):
Actually, we were on her showand she was rapid fire asking us
questions about it.
When is it appropriate to reachout for certain types of help?
And I caught myself fumblingover the answer, because I know
what happens when most people gointo an inpatient facility.
Gina Fournier (55:08):
Because there's that, what do they call it?
Cognitive dissonance?
For us, like, there's that twocompeting things at the same
time.
Jennifer Schmitz (55:14):
There's two things that we battle against.
And yes, I want to be able totell people who's close to you,
who are your support systems,that you trust.
Gina Fournier (55:23):
But also where we are anyway, we have some really
solid resources.
So, if you're listening closeto where we're from, there are
peer support, respite placesaround us, which I think is
pretty sweet, and I think thosewere developed probably as a
response to the trauma that somepeople have endured in
inpatient settings.
(55:43):
So I think there's some ofthose places that are coming
around and I know where we are.
We're pretty resource rich andI get that in Michigan, maybe
not so much or other areas ofthe country.
But I think it's an importantconversation not to dissuade
people from getting help ifyou're feeling so desperate, but
(56:05):
also to not weaponize livedexperiences against someone.
What you were going through waspretty terrible, right,
stressful, awful, I know.
Jennifer Schmitz (56:17):
You're still living it.
Gina Fournier (56:18):
Yeah Well, I know what I was like when I was
going through a stressful timelike that, like I was pretty
erratic, I was pretty off thechain, I was all these things,
but nobody ever once thought toinstitutionalize me.
That's fucking stupid.
Like, instead, just talk to meTalk.
Nobody asked you questions.
Nobody asked you the questionsthat they needed to ask you.
(56:41):
They just went off of somebodyelse who had a position of power
, other people in positions ofauthority and power.
Their word was taken over yoursevery time, and I think that's
the slippery slope and that'sthe message and that's the power
differential that we talk aboutquite a lot.
Everybody holds power and weneed to know that, and everybody
(57:02):
holds their own agency and weneed to reclaim that.
So our time here isunfortunately coming to a quick
close, which I wish I wouldn't,but it is.
Thank you so much for sharingthis.
By the way, I love it whenconsumers come on.
I think their stories arepowerful and often like what
(57:25):
this stuff happens still today?
It's 2025.
The answer to that is yes, itdoes still happen and it's 2025,
which is why Jen and I show upto you every single week
(57:51):
bringing you another episode ofthe gaslit truth so that we don
later.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (57:54):
I am still fighting for justice and I am
the object of incredibleretaliation.
At one point, the Catholichospital a security guard called
me, trying to scare me off myclaims, and said the FBI were
following me.
I can't even get an answer ifthe FBI were ever following me.
Jennifer Schmitz (58:14):
It sounds nuts , they weren't.
Gina Fournier (58:16):
They got bigger fish to fry.
Jennifer Schmitz (58:18):
Yeah, I'm just saying, there's you know,
national security and shit.
Not this little frizzy-hairedFrench last name woman from
Michigan.
Gina Fournier (58:29):
They're not Nope.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (58:31):
I have developed a psychological penis
slicing machine and for all thewhite men who have made my life
hell, it will be psychologicallyinstalled and they will dream
every night until they're deadthat Jesus with the crucifix
will enact the revenge.
Because I'm going to go real.
(58:51):
You know she's going rogue.
She's going rogue.
I'm going to go rogue in.
You know she's going rogue.
She's going rogue on my house.
Jesus raped me.
It's a metaphor fornon-evaluation by Dr Andrew
Zajka.
As a modern female, I shouldnot be mistreated this badly and
have to wait this long foracknowledgement and justice.
For the truth, the guy didn'tevaluate me.
(59:14):
I was psychiatrically humantrafficked.
I am not the danger, I am notthe crazy one.
My society is crazy anddangerous with Catholicism,
psychiatry and corruption.
Gina Fournier (59:29):
Well, if you've hung out with us for this long
on the Gaslit Truth podcast,please like, comment, share,
subscribe.
Only give us five stars.
And if you on the Gaslit TruthPodcast, Please like, comment,
share, subscribe.
Only give us five stars.
And if you have a gaslit truththat you would like to share,
please do so by emailing us atthegaslittruthpodcast at
gmailcom.
Dr. Teralyn Sell (59:47):
And that's a wrap.
Gina Fournier (59:48):
Thank you both very much.
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