What happens when the medication meant to help you spirals into a nightmare? Today, we share the courageous journey of Renee Schulz-Jacobson, who faced unimaginable challenges after ceasing Klonopin, a drug she was prescribed for seven years. Her story brings to light the invisible yet devastating symptoms of psychiatric withdrawal, from neuropathy to seizures, and underscores the importance of informed consent. Renee's road to recovery led her to explore art as therapy and become a certified peer recovery advocate, educating others on the perilous side effects of psychiatric drugs.
We then turn the clock back to the 1980s, a time when trauma was misunderstood and often dismissed. Renee shares the heartbreaking story of growing up in a religious Jewish family and the life-altering impact of being raped at summer camp in 1985. This poignant discussion illuminates the medical and emotional aftermath she faced, including pregnancy and AIDS testing, and the stark lack of psychological support available at the time. Renee's narrative is a powerful reminder of how societal expectations and inadequate trauma treatment have long-lasting effects on mental health and well-being.
Finally, we delve into the broader implications of early childhood sexual trauma. Renee opens up about the anxiety, depression, and avoidance behaviors that shaped her life choices, including academic overachievement as a coping mechanism and the complexities of relationships deeply affected by unresolved trauma. Her transformative journey through holistic health practices and artistic discovery provides a beacon of hope. Through her newfound talent in painting, Renee now raises awareness about the harms of psychiatric medication and inspires others to turn life's challenges into opportunities for healing and growth. Join us on the Gaslit Truth Podcast for an episode that promises to enlighten and empower.
In this compelling episode of the Gaslit Truth Podcast, listeners are taken on a profound journey of pain, resilience, and artistic awakening with Renee Schultz-Jacobson. Titled "From Klonopin Nightmare to Artistic Awakening!," the episode delves into the harrowing experience of psychiatric withdrawal, early childhood trauma, and the transformative power of creativity.
The episode opens with a stark revelation: the very medication prescribed to Renee to alleviate her anxiety led her into a living nightmare. Klon
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome back everyone to another episode of the
Gaslit Truth Podcast.
This is another consumer storythat we're going to be talking
about today, and I'm superpumped about it because I love
bringing in consumers, actuallypeople who've been around the
block and have returned.
Is the deal Made it back?
They've made it back.
(00:21):
So make sure that you like andfollow us across all the social
medias Instagram, youtube andall the things and you might
want to head over to YouTube forthis one, because I don't know.
I don't know if we're showinganything on this one.
Maybe not, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
It's going to be good .
I mean, if you're not onYouTube yet, you may as well be
on YouTube.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
You shouldn't go there anyway.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
You could see what terry and I look like like you
have to put a face with thevoices.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
It's like those radio personalities that you just
don't know what they look likeuntil you get.
You see them on a billboard.
You're like that's not what Iexpected.
Anywho, here we are and we aregoing to welcome our guest right
now yeah, we're gonna welcomemiss renee.
Welcome to the show, reneejacobson earlier it was the shit
show.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
welcome to the shit show it.
Welcome to the show ShulsJacobson.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Yes, thank you, Earlier.
It was the shit show.
Welcome to the shit show.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
It was a shit show we should have been recording from
the beginning, because we arehaving a lot of problems.
But then we brought indiscussions about the water bra,
so it turned out to be justfine.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yes, just fine.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
You know if that doesn't perk anybody up Good
morning.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
I anybody up?
Good morning, welcome to theshit show, renee.
Yeah, all right, thanks.
I can't say much about the boobsituation.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
But she likes the shit show it's good.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
I'm here for it, all right.
Well, everybody I want to read.
I'm going to read off somethingbecause, of course, I can't
memorize't memorize these things, but we want to tell the world
a little bit about you, renee,before we get started.
So, for everybody that isjoining us, our guest today,
renee Schultz-Jacobson, began aslow, medically supervised taper
off a Klonopin which is, as weknow, a commonly prescribed
anti-anxiety med, and she hadtaken it exactly as prescribed
(02:03):
for seven years.
And then, shortly after thatlast bit, renee started to
experience hundreds ofterrifying physical, emotional,
psychological, cognitivesymptoms, endured neuropathy
seizures, memory problems,emotional dysregulation,
digestive issues none of whichwere present prior to taking
(02:23):
that medication.
And so for Renee, it was apiece of never thinking that you
could heal, and so, disabled,for years, she started painting
as a way to distract herselffrom the withdrawal symptoms
that she was forced to endure.
And then here we are, a decadelater, rebuilding a life from
the bottom up, integrating a newmindset, a new diet, a new
worldview and an entirely newsupport system, which we're
(02:44):
going to hear a little bit abouttoday.
Today, renee is an independentartist whose artwork lives in
private collections all over theworld, and it is really cool
that's not in the bio, but Ihave looked at some of it.
I think it's just so beautiful.
The colors just are beyondvibrant.
That's my little piece in there.
In addition to offeringin-person and online classes,
renee is a certified peerrecovery advocate.
She supports people on allstages of their deep
(03:06):
prescription journey.
A published author, her memoirPsychiatrized waking up after a
decade of bad medicinecontemplates the cost of
compliance and exposes the truthabout the dangers associated
with these psychiatric drugs,psychotropic drugs, including
misunderstood and debilitatingneurological dysfunction, which
does affect thousands of men andwomen worldwide upon the
(03:30):
cessation of psychiatric drugs.
So it has become a part ofRenee's life mission to educate
the public the doctorsespecially about the dangers
associated with psychiatricdrugs, and she believes patients
need to be fully informed ofthe risks involved before
agreeing to take any drugs whichmight impact your brain
chemistry.
Renee, welcome to the GaslitTruth.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Thank you.
Thank you for that nice introand I'm really happy to be here.
Actually, I love what you twoare doing.
It's good stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Well, I was watching your face as Jen is doing the
intro and the only thing that Ithought of was did that even
feel like can't explain it?
Speaker 3 (04:07):
I just can't explain it, and I explain it as an
(04:30):
invisible personal Holocaustbecause, you are stuck in a
torture chamber and there's noescape.
It never stops.
You can't, most people can'tsleep, and the symptoms are just
so intense and and it andthey're invisible.
So it's invisible torturechamber during during other
(04:52):
things, you know, people can seethat there's a gun on you or
that you're being zapped, or ifyou hear you know, or if you
have cancer, people can see yousitting there and they're
putting stuff inside of you.
This you look, you look prettyfine and it's just invisible.
It's really your own personalseventh circle of hell.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Right, yeah, Right, Well, and that's the harder part
about damage from psychiatricinterventions right, Because you
can't see.
I mean, for some people we havethese outward signs that are
shown and so for those casesit's almost like okay, well, I
can see something is going on.
But for somebody who is goingthrough the chemical changes in
(05:33):
the brain and the feelings thatyou go through, those symptoms
that just can't be outwardlyseen, it's really hard when you
are even with providers, to beable to explain that in a way
that they can understand,because they're not seeing a
physical, oftentimes a physicalmanifestation of these symptoms.
So it's one of those thingsthat makes it even more
(05:58):
difficult.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
It's like people don't believe you almost you
know Right, and so that's why Ihave all different ways of
explaining it.
And you know, try to like it'slike being invisibly chemically
concussed.
You know, like it is a braininjury and if you had, you know,
an MRI of what a concussion is,you know the lights are too
light, the sound is too loud,there's all different kinds of
(06:22):
symptoms that go along with that.
You know, if you have a like,you know someone shoots you
through your brain, there'simpairments, but you don't have
the hole that you can actuallysee.
So I do talk about it in thatway and in fact, a lot of the
modalities for healing are not,you know, unlike things that you
would do for somebody who'scoming through like actually
brain.
You know brain injury Like a TBIa TBI that helps, that helps
(06:44):
providers, but it is.
It is.
I mean, I've certainly been inthose situations to myself.
It's maddening when someonetries to tell you there's just
no way that you could still beexperiencing this after all this
time.
It's just not possible and it'slike yeah, but yet it is.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah, go to YouTube, you'll see what she just did on
YouTube.
I will join you.
I had my fuck Lexapro cup infront of me.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I was holding a few podcasts ago.
That cause I.
When you say that, renee, I thethe world cannot seem unless
you go through this.
It's a very subjectiveexperience, right?
But yet so many people have it.
When you just made the commentabout sights and sounds and
(07:35):
things like, I went through thismyself a couple of weeks ago
and was literally sittingoutside feeling like the breeze
was too breezy.
The sensation of feeling windon me was was so overwhelming
and I'm looking at people andlooking around me going.
I must be fucking crazy becausethe rest of the of the world
sitting at the baseball gamewith me is perfectly fine and
(07:58):
I'm sitting here going.
I need to go shelter myselfbecause the sensation of touch
right now coming from breeze istoo much for me and I try to
explain it to people and they'rekind of just like oh boy, maybe
you need to stop doing your medtitration.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Well, that's just it.
That's just what Jen just said.
You mention these things topeople and they'll be like maybe
you need to be on thismedication.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Maybe you need to stop your titration, like maybe
that's, that's not okay.
That's actually kind of like apsychotic symptom that's
happening to you when you think.
The breeze feels like too much.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
It's too breezy.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
And and so and so and I, so that's at least for me.
When you say that, I canresonate with that.
I think there's a lot of peoplethat are listening to this
podcast as well that canresonate with these just
indescribable symptoms, right.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Yeah, and I would just add my, so not to throw my
brother under the bus, but mybrother's a doctor and when I
was going through this, he'salready under the bus.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah, I guess he's in front of it.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Sorry.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
No, I'm kidding, Sorry bro, when I was going
through this, I called him, youknow, and I told him what was
going on and he said exactlywhat you said, which is I got to
tell you, renee, this isevidence that you need more
medication.
See, it's just like.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Oh guys, this gives me say that today.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
No.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
So we didn't talk for a long time after that.
But in the years past he, withall the new information that's
come out and all this, it's beena decade, now, 11 years, it
it'll be and he actually wroteme.
I'm getting up now, I'm gettingchoked up.
He wrote me a beautiful letterapologizing and saying he was
(09:36):
sorry.
He this is nothing he wastrained in, he's not a
psychiatrist, he's you know,he's not.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
That's not what he does but he was like it's just
nothing he had ever heard of.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
So not that I want to talk about your brother on here
, but is he like a generalpractitioner, family
practitioner or something else?
Speaker 1 (09:54):
He's a chief of staff and oh, can he come on the
podcast?
No, he won't do it.
No, well, if he's listening,this is an open invitation we
will put a bag on his head orsomething you know no.
I get, I understand why hecan't do that, but you know it's
, it's very interesting I'veasked him to, by the way, to do
things like that.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Oh, I believe yeah.
I believe, yeah, we're, we'rewaiting for we're waiting for
those people to come, which iskind of like our, like little
plug to go.
Hey okay, anybody listening thatmay be in a position like that
Come on, because it is.
You just said it too, renee.
You just said, um, like notbeing educated in it or not on,
(10:28):
like having that knowledge of it.
And then you said you know he'snot a psychiatrist and I would
beg to to fire back with thatand say you know, and even if he
was, guess what Us three womenright here probably know more
about how to safely deprescribe.
I haven't met a psychiatristyet that has been able to
actually meet me toe to toe andhave that conversation with me.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Luckily, I do know some, so I'm happy to name your
way.
After that, get them on here,because let's go.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
It would be great for the world to see that there are
psychiatrists out there thatare safe, that are fully safe.
That can see the whole picturethat you can actually talk to,
that are going to, that have theunderstanding of guess what
that wind hitting you the way itis.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Yes, yeah, I believe that's a symptom of withdrawal.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Here's what's happening in your brain.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yeah Well, and I also want to just add in there the
majority of psychiatricmedication is not prescribed by
psychiatry, that's true.
So you know there's, that iswhere also big disconnect in
education it is.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
So that's big I guess all I was saying is he, he's
not someone who has everprescribed any of these
medications, just not the typeof medicine he practices.
So you know he did his.
He didn't pick psych as aspecialty, it wasn't anything
that he ever.
You know he did his.
He didn't pick psych as aspecialty, it wasn't anything
that he ever.
You know, he's just like yeah,but most of these prescribers
don't.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Most of the prescribers nowadays do not pick
psych as a specialty, but yetthey still prescribe lots and
lots of hardcore things topeople.
But I, Renee, can I just backyour story up a little bit?
I want to hear how you ended upgetting on medication in the
first place if you're willing toshare.
Yeah, how did that start?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
It's an ugly one.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
It always is ugly.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
So I'm going to go like every time I try to tell
this story, I try to just keepit short but as you know, they
have tentacles that go back intoour childhood or whatever.
So I would just say that youknow, as a woman in the United
States growing up in the 70s and80s, boy did we get sold?
(12:35):
A bad bill of goods.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yes, we did.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
The food that we were told is good for us isn't good
for us.
You know, Lucky Charms, they'remagically delicious.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yes, they are magically delicious.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Pure poison right, and all the Swanson's dinners
that you know made it easier forour mothers and the McDonald's
and like just the nutrition andyou know was not there.
And then just this idea thatlike better living through
pharmaceuticals, like if I couldtell you the number of times
that people told me how lucky weare that we live in this
(13:09):
country where we have access tomedication.
So that's a story that I grewup hearing.
I will also confess, I grew upin a Jewish, you know, very
religious family and you knowthere's that stereotype of like,
oh, you'll marry a Jewishdoctor one day, right?
Oh, it's like that's thehighest, that's the highest
(13:29):
place that you could go is thatyou marry, you land a Jewish
doctor.
So that was a lot of religiousdogma that I grew up with.
That like I will be the windbeneath his wings I, you know
that like Sounds so beautiful oh.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Bette, Bette Midler, you sound great Bette, so you
know.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Yeah, I was.
I was supposed to repopulate,like I.
It's very, very important to bechaste and a virgin, you know
all those kinds of things, andthis is not that long ago, you
know.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
No, this is not the twenties, but the eighties.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
She's talking about the eighties.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
I was born in 67, but this was the spring, yes.
So, um, what happened is I waswent to a summer camp and I was
raped in 1985, that summer, bysomebody who was five years
older than I was.
Um, I was 17 and so I was notyet in college and he was
(14:27):
graduated from college with verydifferent expectations about
what was happening with us.
And I came home from so I,after that experience, I told my
friends what had happened.
They literally couldn't hear me.
It was like they.
Their responses were oh myfriends, what had happened?
They literally couldn't hear me.
It was like they, they.
Their responses were oh my God,you guys had sex.
(14:48):
That's so cute.
And I kept saying it wasn't.
There was no word for that.
Then there was no word becauseI knew him.
I had thought rape was like witha gun or a knife, with a
stranger in the alley.
So everyone just kept tellingme it was so cute that like I
had done this and it was great.
And I was like it wasn't great.
You guys aren't hearing me, Ididn't want to and it just so.
(15:11):
Anyway, it wasn't like hestopped to use a condom or
anything.
So I went home.
I was supposed to go to college.
About two weeks later it was Iwent home.
I did not get a period.
It wasn't like he took care ofthat or anything.
So, um, you know, there was not, that was not happening, it was
not that dynamic.
So, um, I had to tell my motherand I told my mother and her
(15:37):
response was like it's so weird,like when you're asking if I
can even believe this is my life, when I read about this I have
so much indignation.
But when it was my own mother,she shamed me.
She was like why were you out?
What were you wearing?
You must have done something togive him the idea that you were
interested in that.
And then, of course, she saidwe have to tell your father and
(16:01):
my dad and I are besties, likehe is my best friend to this day
.
He is my bestie and I was.
I knew he would think that I was, you know, a bad.
I was worried he was going tothink I was a bad girl, that I
wasn't chased, that I was not avirgin anymore, that I was
ruined the way my mother said Iwas ruined.
(16:22):
And we went in the kitchen andI'll never forget it.
He was doing a crossword puzzleand eating a tangerine, which
is what he does every singlenight.
And my mother said go ahead andtell him what happened.
And I was crying and I told himand this is really like his
response to me was sointeresting because we didn't
(16:44):
talk about it until decadeslater but what?
The reason why he did this istotally the way, differently
than the way I received it, butin the moment he heard me he put
down his pen and he put hishead down on the paper, like on
the newspaper, so like he justput his head down.
And how would you guys feelLike if your dad did that?
(17:07):
What would?
I'm just curious.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
He was disappointed in me.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
I internalized that as total disappointment.
He couldn't even look at me.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Right.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Couldn't even look at me.
That is not what he was feeling.
By the way, he told me decadelater, after I, you know, we
discussed this as adults, many,you know, many years later, he,
he, felt like he had failed meas a parent.
Sure.
He didn't protect me.
He's the one that sent me tothat summer camp and he felt
horrible.
So I did not register that atall anyway, and so I I told him
(17:41):
I was sent to.
So here's where we go.
I was sent to the doctor thenext day for pregnancy testing,
for AIDS testing, because thiswas 1985, right in the middle.
And so for me, what got sort ofsticky for me is that you do
(18:01):
something, something bad happens, you go to the doctor and then
the doctor will check you andyou may need some kind of
treatment or medication and youneed to trust your.
You know you trust your doctorthere.
So I went to the doctor and itwas like I was not pregnant.
I had to be tested repeatedlyfor AIDS.
(18:24):
For the first I went every sixmonths to do these checks or
whatever.
I think it was even threemonths for the first six months.
So it was like three months andthen a year after everything
was clear.
And then I had this like sighof relief of like, oh my God,
like I'm okay.
I felt like I was okayphysically, never went and got
therapy, never.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
I want to bring this up though, because I'm an
eighties girl too, graduated in87.
And well, EMDR wasn't even athing, I think, until 86, maybe
later, but it wasn't a researchthing.
That's just when she, like,discovered it.
But trauma treatment wasn'treally a thing.
I mean, we're talking ourparents anyways.
Mine Vietnam vet right, Like soera of war.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
And my grandparents too.
World War II vet.
You know, like Korean War,world War II like.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, even those words weren't used, like this
vernacular didn't exist.
It did not, there was not.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
No there was not.
And, by the way, I want to say,like the, the, your lived
experience of um, your firstsexual encounter like that is so
familiar, so familiar toespecially well, I mean, I'm
sure, women of today too, butespecially back in that time,
like you know, it was verysimilar to my own and I didn't
(19:47):
recognize that as a traumaticthing then either.
You know, it was like your riteof passage and that's just how
it goes down and you know you'rejust supposed to be like that.
And it got me thinking about.
Do you remember that movie byJodie Foster, the Accused?
That was the first movie aboutrape, about someone being raped.
(20:10):
That I can recall bringing itinto the mainstream as far as,
like, it's not about what youwear, it's not about all those
things, because as women, that'swhat we were told.
Well, you must have, youdeserved it in some way.
And then, oh, you're medicallycleared, Move on.
You know it's now over, I don'twant to hear about it anymore,
you shouldn't talk about itanymore.
And yeah, that's it, yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Yeah, and so I know now because obviously I have as
a sidebar this is an interestingone.
So I've had almost 600 clients.
Do you want to guess the numberof people who report having
sexual trauma?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Oh, I'm going to say it's like 90%.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Everyone but three oh .
Speaker 1 (20:51):
I was close.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Yeah, I should play the lottery today, everyone but
three, and even those three theydon't call it trauma, so you
don't have to go by that, butthey don't.
But one of them, one of thosepeople has, like, sexual
identity issues, you know, likea.
So there was some, there wassome stuff going on there that
it was making some imprinting.
Anyway, that is fascinating tome, that that that early
(21:14):
childhood experience, even justone time, it's a predictor of
who may end up on these, youknow, having a later situation
where they end up prescribed.
It's anti-anxiety,anti-depressants, it's like a
predictor.
So we have to get in there tohelp people lose the stigma, the
shame around sexual trauma.
(21:36):
And again, I will say this wasone event for me.
I think about women who haverepeated events or grow up in
situations, so it's like asingle event can change your
whole life.
So anyway, the idea was you'refine, right, you're going to,
you can go right to college,this we didn't have to stop the
show and honestly, I was likeready, I went to college and I I
(21:59):
did all the things in the order, I was a good student and I had
made friends and I you know allthat, I all that.
But I and the backstory of it, Ihad a lot of fear.
I didn't go to fraternityparties I didn't train ever
because there was alcoholinvolved in that.
Previous thing Not me, not byme, but he smelled like alcohol.
(22:23):
So the smell of alcohol in afraternity freaked me out.
I didn't want to be aroundpeople that were drinking and so
I became basically like abookworm and a very you know and
so that's kind of that earlyworkaholism stuff.
That, like my coping skill wasstudy, be a good girl, get good
grades, and that was my primarycoping skill was that like, oh,
(22:44):
I'm not doing that, I'm gonna goto the library and read.
So I did that for a long time.
Well, you know, that helped meto graduate with high honors and
you know cum laude and Phi BetaKappa, and and that brought me
to the next place in my lifewhere I went to graduate school
and continued that same, thatsame trajectory of like, same
trajectory of work hard, getgood grades to get to the next
(23:07):
place.
Anyway, I ended up meeting aJewish doctor.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
All your dreams came true.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
All my dreams were manifested, fixed.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
And then it's fixed.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yeah, you're fixed again, even more than you could
have been fixed before.
And, and he's a good person, andon paper it looked like we
should have been the dreamcouple and, honestly, for a
while we kind of were, you know,like we were both in school and
so he was working hard and Iwas working hard and we traveled
together.
We knew a lot of the samepeople, you know.
(23:40):
It was very interconnected andmeshed Um and uh he.
However, we didn't have I'mtrying to tactfully say this we
didn't have a great um, wedidn't have chemistry.
And now, when I look back atthat, I understand it's because
(24:04):
when this stuff happened with myfirst you know that early
situation, none of that wasaddressed and so I picked
someone that was never going tothreaten me in that way.
But that's all unconscious,completely unconscious way, but
(24:28):
that's all unconscious,completely unconscious.
So, um, so, yeah.
So that was okay, you know, andI loved him and we still love
each other.
But we had very differentdrives.
I'm very sensual sexual person,so, within the confines of
marriage, I wanted to have stuffand he was like I'm busy, I'm a
surgeon, I can't, I don't wantto that kind of thing.
So you can imagine then thedance at nighttime when we would
(24:49):
go to bed.
It would be like I was making arequest, he was rejecting me,
and it was night after night andI started to feel really bad
about myself.
My, you know, my self-esteemtook a big hit.
We're talking years and years.
Anyway, that went on.
Finally we got pregnant prettyquickly.
(25:12):
After you know, when we decidedto do that and my son, his
delivery was a disaster.
I mean, the whole pregnancy wasjust a wreck.
I was one of those people whovomited up until the fifth month
.
Yeah, it was really bad, andthen I had an abruption.
So I wound up having to be onbed rest and then his delivery
(25:37):
was very traumatic, was verytraumatic.
I lost I think they calculatedlike 80% of my blood I lost and
I was rushed into the ER for anemergency hysterectomy and so my
expectations around what birthwas going to be like was like
(25:58):
which I should add I did nothave to have the hysterectomy
because I had an amazing doctor,but that's what they were
rushing me to do, cause I wasbleeding out.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
No, but this is more like a more sexual trauma, like
all that area right.
Exactly None of this stuff hadever been addressed and I again.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
I didn't learn that years later, but anyway, um,
same kind of thing repeating thepattern here.
So it was like I woke up fromthis and everyone was like, oh
my God, you're awake.
And my first words were am Idead?
And someone said, no, you'reokay, and the baby wasn't with
me, he had had to go to the NICU.
(26:33):
And so it became this weirdthing of like I wanted to tell
somebody like how unwell I was.
I did not feel good.
I had had a near deathexperience.
There was a lot that happenedwhich I won't get into.
It's all in my exciting bookhere.
But I had a really crazyexperience, very clear, like a
(26:53):
death experience where I won'teven get into everything.
But I came out of that and Iwanted to talk about it.
I wanted to tell people I hadseen the other side and I knew
what was there and people werelike honey, let that go, the
baby's here you have, you knowyou're fine.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
You want to keep this baby alive now.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Right, like you know, make sure you can nurse and
let's make sure you know, andall that.
And I was like, but I, I sawthe other side, I saw the edge,
like I know it's.
I had some downloads, man, Ihad some downloads man and they
were like shh, it's on the baby.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
It's the same thing.
You had this big experience.
You're like quiet Just quiet.
Now you've got to do the thingthat you're supposed to do now.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Look at the cute outfit that you got Look at the
blanket, and so I really learnedit was again that silence Be
quiet.
Don't talk too much so I did.
I never talked about it everagain.
I was a good girl.
I was trying to be the bestmother I could be.
I loved being a mother.
I loved my.
I love my son.
He's going to be 25 soon, he's26.
(27:55):
He's amazing and but there'sbut it.
But it began the sidelining oflike what you feel does not
matter.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Yeah, dismiss yourself over and over.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Yep, so this whole idea of self-care when people
started to like later, whenpeople started to talk to me
about that, I had no concept ofself-care, Did not understand it
.
When even people talked aboutloving yourself, I was like what
do you mean?
Speaker 1 (28:24):
I talk about this a lot.
I'm like as a full-fledged GenXer myself.
Along with you, we were soldthis dream that we should and
can do everything.
Yeah, and we have trickled thatdown to our kids.
And Jen, you're not Gen X,you're like on the.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
I'm right on the cusp , but I will tell you that that
trickle, yeah, I mean that's,I'm, I'm in the same position.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Um, that, I was taught to be that way to do
those things, that's and, by theway, you get to go to college
and you get to juggle all thisstuff, like that was exciting.
Like that that was an excitingtime.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
I mean you make shit happen and that's all there is
to it and you leave everything.
I mean my God, my LLC is calledMake Things Happen.
I mean that's my LLC, mine'sRans to the Rescue.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Mine's Inner Strength .
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Lame, okay, but for me, like that's the same.
I was taught that that is whatwas my parents.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
I was.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
that was what was Holy crap.
Three overachievers.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Oh, one, two, three yes.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, you may as well just just put the numbers right
on there, because I may not bein that that same age group, but
I, I am an old soul, 100%.
I was born at the wrong timetime.
I was given a different set ofvalues, shit, I do not my.
I go back to the 70s for music.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Like, give me the 70s all day long and I'll be
happier than if you give me this90s stuff, but anyways, but
that is all very real so we justworked out then was that now
I'm not only just holding thislike complex sexual trauma from
early in life, but now I've hadthis horrible delivery, same
region and and I'm like I, noone wants to hear that either
(30:07):
and so I just held it alltogether and, um, I was also
went back to you know, it waslike it was kind of boring, like
I'm a, I'm a mover, we'removers and shakers Right.
And so I was like, oh my God,the you know the dishes and the
laundry and the diapers like Igot to do something.
And I asked my husband if hewould be willing to like take a
(30:27):
day off so that I could havesomething once a week.
And he said no.
He said like.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
no, I'm the primary breadwinner.
How's that supposed to work?
Speaker 3 (30:35):
No, and you know there were days that he was
taking half days off to gogolfing, but he wasn't coming to
, he wasn't to help, exactly, itwasn't to parent.
So I did that for a long, longtime and then round about, well,
I mean it wasn't that longbefore I ended up getting
Medicaid.
So five years I did that.
(30:56):
And then the insomnia.
I just I, from the time my sonwas born, I never really got the
sleep back.
You know they're crying, you'renursing, blah, blah, blah, but
then he was getting in and outof bed and and and all that
stuff.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Yeah, it doesn't stop .
Speaker 3 (31:12):
Oh right, and then he was and all that and and he was
a good baby, like he was a good, he was an easy baby.
So it wasn't like um, he wasmaking all those demands, but I
was awake and alert and all thisanyway.
And around the time he turnedfive I was just not sleeping and
my ex my now ex-husband but my,my husband said you know, you
(31:33):
got to go and talk, you got tosee a psychiatrist because
you're not sleeping.
Maybe somebody can give yousomething.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Or he didn't even say a psychiatrist.
He said you gotta go see thedoctor.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
So I went to my general practitioner.
He's retired now, but he said Ium, I will refer you to someone
.
So he referred me to apsychiatrist who within 15
minutes diagnosed me withanxiety, depression, bipolar
disorder and borderlinepersonality disorder.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Oh what?
That's the icing on the cake.
Oh my.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
God Are you serious.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Okay, that blows my mind Like more so.
Okay, that is like a.
That is a characterologicalfeature of somebody that
requires understanding theirlife, everything about
everything about them to put apersonality disorder on somebody
15 minutes.
That is.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
I filled out a questionnaire.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Can I just ask you?
Well, number one did youbelieve it?
Did you like, because you gotthese labels, did you then?
Speaker 3 (32:40):
believe the labels.
So I was very, I wasn'tsleeping, so I was very
emotional, you know, and crying.
I was anxious, for sure, I wasanxious because I wasn't
sleeping.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
I was going to say because you're not sleeping, For
sure, I was anxious because Iwasn't sleeping.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
I was going to say because you're not sleeping
Right?
And still, by the way, I hadnever changed a diaper before my
child's own diaper.
Like, as a babysitter I waslike I like the older kids.
Yeah, as a teacher in myprevious incarnation, I had the
high schoolers.
Like I was not.
You know, please don't give methose.
So I didn't have experience.
So I was an ang, I was ananxious, worried about
(33:21):
everything.
I was on bedrest for the lastpart of my pregnancy because of
the you know stuff, and so Inever even got like the classes
that people get.
So I had anxiety and thenbipolar I was up and down, you
know, and so I was like, oh myGod, I don't know what this
other one is.
So all I can say to you is,when you hit on that, dr T, I
(33:46):
remember going in the car andbawling my eyes out, holding
these scripts.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Oh, that's your story , Terry tiri vault.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Really, yeah, how many scripts she had.
I had lamictal, um, clonopin,prozac.
They gave me three right outthe gate and um.
Actually that's not true.
It was prozac and lamictalright out the gate, and then he
gave me clonopin later when Ifailed.
When I failed.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
You.
Yes, I failed.
I had a manic experience.
Wait, you had a manicexperience on that stuff.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Yeah, I'm a pro.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
That just means you mean more.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
That's all that means Of course I was twitching and I
was like is my eye twitching?
Do you guys see it?
Speaker 2 (34:32):
You didn't ride it out long enough.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
You're supposed to just let it go longer.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Yeah, it didn't take long enough ride it out long
enough.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
You're supposed to just let it go longer.
Yeah, it didn't take longenough.
Maybe we need to try another.
They shifted me to Zoloft andthen I tried a third one, so it
was.
It was Prozac, zoloft, celexa,and then I went back to this
doctor and he said you failed heliterally used these words you
failed SSRIs, so now we're goingto give you a benzodiazepine,
and I was like I wish we were,we had enough in us at these
(34:59):
moments to be like no, yourtreatment failed me Like.
I believed that I was ruined.
I know I was ruined Back when Iwas 17, I was ruined.
So this is clearly what itmeans to be ruined.
This is what it is.
This is now the now, there'swords for it.
Now there's a code for it.
So when you asked if I believedit, I I had that experience of.
(35:26):
That's the beginning of thegaslighting, right when it was
like, oh, there is somethingwrong with me, but here's the
pills to fix it.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
This is going to change my life.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
So for you then, the, the Klonopin, is it for that?
That one is one that you talkabout a little bit more than the
others, so others were likethey tried they were on and off
two weeks.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
But we now know that stuff it all has a cumulative
effect to your brain, is like,okay, this is what she wants.
And then you take it off andthen you try something else and
your brain's like, okay, this iswhat she wants.
And so you get that kindlingeffect in your brain, that that
you know like it has acumulative effect.
But the Klonopin is the onethat I took for seven years and
(36:16):
for most of that period that'sthe only thing you know.
If I had a pill box, that's theonly thing that was in there.
So I really do attribute thedamage to the benzodiazepines.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
So can you talk then a little bit about that?
So I know in your bio, when Iwas reading it, there's, you
know, some general informationon symptomology.
Can you share with us what itwas that you experienced?
Speaker 3 (36:38):
So my journey is a little weird or maybe it's not
weird because I've talked to somany people.
It's not unusual.
But I was fine on the benzosfor a long time.
In fact, I used to refer tothem as a miracle drug, because
within 15 minutes of poppingthat sucker I was out, and when
you have insomnia it was like sorelaxing to just know I'm going
(37:01):
to take that and I'm going toget the effect that I want.
But um, but now I think of thatas like.
So it gave me a bottle of vodkaand said drink till you
blackout.
Yep.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Pretty much, that's what it is.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
A different pill in pill form.
So you know, and I would neverhave done that, I would have
walked out of that office.
Anyway, long story longer, Iguess is that round about the
seventh year I went to go see mydoctor and there was a note on
the door and it said you know,dr So-and-so has decided, you
know, to take an earlyretirement.
(37:34):
You need to go back to yourprimary care and there's a
decided, you know, to take anearly retirement.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
you need to go back to your primary care, and I know
it on the door.
What is the world?
Okay, everybody.
This is not 40, 50, 60 yearsago, by the way, so the only
thing I knew about this dog wasthat you an email?
Speaker 3 (37:51):
No, no email.
They were so bad in the mail hewas old and there was no, no,
no, it was so many things he'slost, so anyway, I went to my
primary care and I learned fromhim, my primary guy.
He said oh renee, he lost hislicense due to improper
prescription practice.
(38:11):
And I said really, what was heprescribing?
Klonopin?
That was like my denial.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Yeah, really what was he giving to other people
Because this was good for me?
Damn lucky charms.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
God Did not register.
So my doctor was like I hate totell you this, but you're going
to need an addiction specialist.
And I was like what my doctorwas like I hate to tell you this
, but you're going to need anaddiction specialist.
And I was like what addictionspecialist?
Speaker 2 (38:42):
I have never taken more than was prescribed, and
he's like your body is dependent.
And what a great doctor, though.
Props, props to that that thatdoctor right there who used the
word addiction too.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
He's retired now, but I will give him his name.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Come on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
His name is Dr John Andalina and he is in the book.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
He's in the book Nameless self-promotion.
Right here, come on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
He's retired and he was the one he apologized to me
for sending me in the firstplace.
He didn't know, but you knowthat's what happens.
So anyway, I went to theaddiction specialist.
Her name is Dr PatriciaHalligan.
She's amazing and she there.
But for the grace of God, shelived in Rochester and she knew
how to taper.
She was following the Ashtonmanual and knew that you can't
(39:25):
just pull it off of it.
She, so slow medically, likeyou referred to with my bio,
slow, medically supervised,taper 10 months.
The thing that we didn't getright was we didn't switch to a
water titration or a liquidtitration.
At the end she crossed me overto Valium when I got down low
enough on the.
(39:46):
So Klonopin is about 15 to 20,you know it depends on your what
I say between 15 and 20% timesstronger.
So Valium is, or Klonopin is,about 15 to 20 times stronger
than Valium.
So when I got down to that tinytiny crumb of Klonopin now we
know that you could eithercontinue to do like a you know a
(40:06):
continue on that medication orbut we crossed over to Valium so
that I could continue to taper.
And then when I got down to aslow as.
I could go on the Valium, whichwas like 0.125, I thought we
were done.
She was out of town, I couldn'tget a message to her and so I
stopped it and I had a cascadeof symptoms.
(40:26):
It was real scary.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
It's crazy, it's always that last little bit and
people think that it's thesmooth sailing up front, like up
top the big ones, and then thatlast little bit.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Yeah, and Mark Horowitz talks about that and I
don't totally.
It's hard for me to explain it,but it's that stuff on your
receptors like the little yeah.
So anyway, so yeah, so thatlast bit, it just exploded and
so I couldn't.
Initially I couldn't walk, Icouldn't talk, I couldn't read,
I couldn't write.
(41:02):
I was rocking, like you see,autistic, like I was rocking, I
think it was like trying toself-soothe.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Like horrible akathisia.
Oh, terrible akathisia.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
Tardive dyskinesia, which is the uncontrollable body
movements of pacing.
And then I had paranoia, like I.
I looked around the house and Isaw like there were outlets
that had multiple plugs in themand I was like this house is
going to burn down, we're goingto, I'm going to die.
The windows don't open.
It was really, really strange.
So you know, my story goes onand on with my book and people
(41:35):
can obviously read it, but thatwas how it all fell apart.
And then basically I was on myown.
I did not have a support systemfor I did Google, like
clonazepam and like like thatwithdrawal effects or something
like that and I found a woman,um, and I I won't say her name
(42:05):
because I don't think she iswanting to do this anymore, but
she really helped me.
She had been through this and,um, and she was the first person
to help me.
And then I mean I don't want towreck my whole book, but like I
was really depressed and goingto kill myself because I I
(42:26):
couldn't see a way out of thisand like doctors were telling me
that they've never seen thisbefore, um, everyone was telling
me that I need to take moremedication, that this was
evidence that I was completelywrecked and so I was
contemplating on aliving myself.
And I was sitting outside of abuilding and a woman came up to
me and saw me crying and shesaid are you okay?
(42:50):
And I said no, I am not.
And I told her what was goingon and she said do you want to
come home with me?
And you guys, I didn't even askher name.
I got up, I followed her like apuppy to her car and she
brought me home with her, and itturns out she had been through
this experience.
And her name is Renee McLean.
(43:12):
She runs a wellness center.
It's called.
Oh my God, I know it's likeright.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Talk about the universe giving you exactly what
you needed, right.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
Absolutely, and so she brought me home with her and
yeah, we have the same name andall that, and anyway, she
taught me about juicingsupplement, that that these
drugs deplete your magnesium andother things you know.
So she taught me about how,like good diet, she taught me,
(43:43):
oh my God.
She taught you the missingpieces of all she taught me the
missing pieces and she gave mecommunity, her family.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
I lived with her family.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
Can you imagine?
She brought me in and herchildren were there and they're
like, oh, you're not the firststray mom's brought home.
And her children were there andthey're like, oh, you're not
the first stray mom's broughthome.
It's awesome, amazing.
And so she's.
She actually does breath work.
So somatic respiratoryintegration.
She I was like living with mytherapist for a year and by then
(44:12):
I was so.
Then when I went home and I sortof looked at my, my husband and
his, the family system and allthat, I was like I am not
getting what I need here at all.
And then I went to rehab, likeI went to a rehab, and then I
came home and I was like I gotto get out of here.
This is a toxic environment forme, because everyone was like,
oh, you're doing a little bitbetter, back to cooking and
(44:34):
cleaning and like taking care ofit, and I was like I needed
therapy, I needed a lot of work.
And so I went and did my ownhealing journey, which involves,
like you were saying, you know,emdr and CBT and DBT and and
body work and um, you know, johnBarnes, massage and like all
(44:55):
different kinds and and you know, eft, tapping and like all you
know, john Barnes, massage, andlike all different kinds, and
you know, eft tapping and, likeall you know, moving.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
The self-care that you never learned about.
Speaker 3 (45:04):
And just allowing myself to feel and grieve for
this younger girl who, like, didnot get what she needed and so
all that.
And so now, you know, so, whileI was going through that, I
started having these visionslike and hearing words, and I
started painting, and sopainting became, instead of that
, like rush, rush, hurry up,like, get things done.
(45:25):
I started painting and it's 10years later and my artwork is
hanging in like people's privatecollections all over the world,
and that, to me, is a miracle.
Like when you're talking aboutthe universe and divine
intervention, I mean, I wasbeing asked to do something else
, and so one of the things I dowant to just sort of throw in
(45:46):
here, because I know we'regetting like to the time, but
people who are going throughthis, you feel so helpless and
hopeless.
Helpless and hopeless and Iknow it's like a little bit of a
you know maybe it's cliche now,but that idea that the universe
is things aren't happening toyou, they're happening for you,
(46:12):
it's both Things are happeningto you, but I never could have
imagined that my former Englishteacher self would not be able
to read or write.
Like that was my, that was mymodus operandi.
And then, but during thishealing, something else started
to emerge, which is that, like I, actually I can paint and that
people liked my paintings, andso now I really use my artwork
as a, as a as a tool to reallytalk about psychiatric
(46:36):
medication harm, because I neverdid this before my injury and
it was.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
It was it wasn't like I came out of the.
Speaker 3 (46:45):
You know it wasn't like everything was like a
beautiful picture at first, butit was like everything else.
It was a re-education and are-learning about myself.
And you spend 10,000, right,that's that Malcolm Gladwell
thing.
You spend 10,000 hours doingsomething and you get good at it
.
Well, when you're in withdrawaland you're as sick as I was
which not everybody is, but Iwas laid out for um from 20.
(47:07):
So 2013 was gone, 2014 was gone.
My first painting I put out uhwas was, uh, april of 2014.
And then slowly, slowly, I justkept painting and painting and
painting.
My first painting I put out wasApril of 2014.
And then, slowly, slowly, Ijust kept painting and painting
and painting, launched a websitein 2017.
So there was a lot of paintingwithout anything happening for a
long time.
It was just my coping skill.
(47:28):
It was a coping skill, not abusiness plan.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Right.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
But now it's like, oh my gosh, something was
happening.
I was getting a different kindof an education and that's
spiritual thing, that'sspiritual awakening, that like
God, universe, Gaia, whateveryou want to call it, all of this
was like a cosmic correction.
I call it a little cosmic asskicking.
I got off my path somewhere.
(47:53):
I got off my path, got some badadvice, didn't get to know
myself, just was sort of doingwhat people told me within the
lines.
And there's this whole otherpart of me that I just never had
a chance to explore until I hadto.
And I really like who I am nowand I love what I do and I love
(48:13):
helping other people to figurethis stuff out and I love
helping other people to figurethis stuff out.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
I just want to say, if you're watching this on
YouTube or even listening toRenee talk right now, it's tough
because we see this version ofyou, and so there's so many
people out there that are likein the depths of darkness right
(48:40):
now with this stuff, and so eventhe believability of the story
now, from who you are to then isjust interesting to me.
So I want to caution peoplethat when you see her now, this
is because of healing.
This is because of what she'sdone for herself and been an
active participant in it.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
Because can I piggyback on that for a second?
There is a perception out thereand you guys correct me if I'm
wrong that you just have to wait, that you just sit on the couch
and it's going to go away.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Well, I think that's the perception for a lot of med
tapering period that it's justthis taper off and then we're
done and I just sit.
I believe that med tapering ofany type of medication is an
active um.
You have to be an activeparticipant in this and you have
to change some things, um,whether it's you know, you know,
working on your trauma orchanging the food that you put
(49:31):
in your mouth or your job oryour marriage or lifestyle
Lifestyle.
Because most of the time that'sthe stuff that got you into this
in the first place.
Like you know, it would beinteresting to figure out what
was really happening, you know,with your sleep, to know like if
(49:51):
somebody just would have donesome sleep work with you
probably would have changed thewhole trajectory for you earlier
.
Not on meds, you know the waythat they did.
I feel like you're bursting tosay something.
Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
It was just so connected because I, my parents,
are so in love with each other.
I grew up in a family wherethere's a lot of physical touch
and there was just this absenceof connection.
So even if I had done the sleepwork for me in my head, bed is
not just for sleeping, it's forcuddling.
I mean, if we called my parentsright now at noon, they're in
(50:25):
bed, they are doing stuff.
They're doing stuff y'all.
They're watching.
They hang out the only thingthey can do when they're asleep.
But they're in bed.
I grew up seeing that and notthat I needed that, but I knew
that-.
You needed something, I neededthat, and so for me, the
insomnia I'm real clear was aneed was not being met and the
(50:48):
universe was trying to show methat something's not right.
It's the warning system of yourcar saying something's not
right.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
Yeah, yeah, I overwrote it.
Speaker 3 (50:59):
I overwrote it with the medicine.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
Like the check engine light.
Yeah, quit putting a piece ofblack tape over it so you don't
have to look at it, right?
Speaker 3 (51:06):
Emergency, emergency at that point, and people take
better care of their cars yeah,and they use their own body.
They do, and their pets too, bythe way.
Clean washing that thing,waxing that thing, mcdonald's
and crap and you know I gotta, Igotta bring this up.
Speaker 2 (51:24):
So you were talking about your painting, okay, and
you were talking about all thework you know, like, this is the
.
So this is the front of your,your book that you wrote, and I
know, you, you, you created thecover to this.
I did.
This is all you.
Speaker 3 (51:37):
I did.
Speaker 2 (51:39):
Yeah, so for anybody that is on YouTube and that's
watching us on YouTube right now, I just wanted to show you what
the publication that Renee hasput out looks like, and once
again-.
Speaker 3 (51:47):
That was my COVID project.
I wrote it during the lockdown,because how much art can you
make?
I mean, I was doing a lot ofclasses online, but I needed to
do something else, and by then,I also wanted to say I was
writing it.
You know I'm writing again.
I'm my.
You know this is so I starteddoing that and, um, I teach
(52:09):
memoir writing classes, so itwas like a natural that the time
was that, and then it waspublished in November of 2021.
And so it was just a naturalprogression of like, so many
people wanted to know my story.
I didn't want to say it overand over again, but but it is.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
It's the stifling of this creativity Just to real
quickly.
So we had Brooke see him on theshow a couple episodes ago and
it's really.
It was interesting to mebecause she became a painter and
her stuff is so cool too.
She wrote a book, like allthese things that I'm like God.
If we would just maybe stopchemically restraining our
(52:43):
creativity, imagine what kind ofworld we would live in, you
know.
Speaker 3 (52:46):
Well, I believe it's.
Yeah, I believe that's what'shappening.
It's by design, all the feelers, the artists, the you know
creativity, whatever, all thesespicy neuro brains out there
that are now like taking ADDmedication to make them.
It's like we need those neurospicy brains, we need these
(53:06):
different ways of thinking.
The connectors are beingmedicated, the emotional people
who are the bridges.
You know, I'm the one peoplealways go to with their problems
, but if I'm medicated, I can'thelp you help you.
I'm going to tell you to takepills.
So I do believe that we are inthe middle of a huge paradigm
shift right now, which is veryexciting, and you guys are part
of it.
(53:26):
You're spearheading, oh yeah,we are.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
We're spearheaders, now we are spearheaders, You're
pioneers spearheaders.
Whatever Spearheaded tenacious,we're spearheaders now.
Speaker 2 (53:38):
We are spearheaders, we're spearheaders.
Speaker 1 (53:39):
Well, anyway, anyway to bring.
Well, you know, any way to bringyou know these messages forward
and um to for our listeners tounderstand that there there is
light and hope at the end of thetunnel here, but you do need to
be an active participant inyour life to get there.
Um, and in your life to getthere, and I think that's the
(54:00):
message too.
We were doing life right,especially Gen X.
We were doing life, but I don'tknow that I could call myself a
real active participant in mylife.
I was doing life, but I don'tknow that I was participating in
my own life, yeah, so I think alot of Gen Xers would relate to
that.
Speaker 3 (54:17):
I wouldn't have seen it that way at the time.
Speaker 1 (54:20):
Right, oh gosh, no, I was just.
Speaker 2 (54:21):
I was doing what I should be doing, should be doing
, but now it's pretty crazy whenyou, when you see it a
different way, you can't unknowwhat you know now.
Like there's just no otherexplanation for it, other than
being able to see it differentlynow.
Speaker 3 (54:35):
And I will say I'm so blessed that my parents are
both still alive and so they'veseen me go into this hole and
come out of it and they are.
It has changed them.
It has made our we've had theopportunity to work on our stuff
that I got to go back and sayto my mother you said some
(54:56):
terrible things to me and shewas just telling me what she was
told you know all that.
So we had a chance to reallyclear that and our relationship
is better than ever.
So healing isn't just likegetting off the medication, like
you're saying you know likeit's it's, it's all the stuff
that brought you there and andmaking amends and fixing it and
and having those hardconversations, and then it's so
(55:19):
much better.
So they are proud of me now.
I mean not that they weren'tbefore, but they're proud of me.
Speaker 1 (55:24):
You know it now.
Speaker 3 (55:25):
Yeah, yeah, and I know it too.
Whether they're proud of me ornot, I'm proud of me now.
Speaker 1 (55:30):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (55:31):
A blessing that I have them behind me too.
They were always there, I justdidn't know.
Speaker 2 (55:36):
Yes, Well this has been really.
Thank you, renee, for giving usthe time for you to share this
story.
Thank you, it's been fantasticand I think, as you were
speaking, there was a couple oftimes where I was, on this end,
like I started getting tearyeyed because I can sit in so
many things that you're sayingand that's the beauty of this,
(55:58):
too is we're a community that isbrought together now by by the
pain and all the bullshit thatwe've gone through, right Like
there's this whole communitythat forms now, and I know
people listening to this feelexactly the same exact thing.
Speaker 3 (56:09):
Yeah, it is the.
It is the real positive side tothe internet.
Right that, like I didn't getinside my house, uh, suffering,
I mean, how could you make it?
I had the internet to do thatinitial research, and then all
this over the last 10,.
I mean, this wasn't here when Iwas going through it 10 years
ago right?
Speaker 1 (56:26):
No, it's not coalition surviving.
Speaker 3 (56:29):
I mean, this stuff wasn't there, but it's here now
and it's gonna help so manypeople.
Speaker 1 (56:35):
So not alone.
Well, thank you for being onthe show, yes, and for anyone
listening, make sure that youlike, follow, share, subscribe
and apparently now you can sendus fan mail.
Speaker 2 (56:47):
Yes, we get fan mail.
It's fantastic.
We've gotten fan mail from allover the United States.
Some of it is very intriguing,so please feel free to send us
some fan mail if you want, andyou can find us on.
Anywhere that you're going tobe listening to podcasts, you
can hear us, or you can get uson all the socials.
We are the Gaslit Truth Podcastand, for those of you that
still use good old email, youcan hit us at
(57:07):
thegaslittruthpodcast atgmailcom.
And thank you, renee, for beinghere today.
Speaker 3 (57:12):
Thanks, guys, we appreciate it.
Welcome back everyone to another episode of the
Gaslit Truth Podcast.
This is another consumer storythat we're going to be talking
about today, and I'm superpumped about it because I love
bringing in consumers, actuallypeople who've been around the
block and have returned.
Is the deal Made it back?
They've made it back.
(00:21):
So make sure that you like andfollow us across all the social
medias Instagram, youtube andall the things and you might
want to head over to YouTube forthis one, because I don't know.
I don't know if we're showinganything on this one.
Maybe not, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
It's going to be good .
I mean, if you're not onYouTube yet, you may as well be
on YouTube.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
You shouldn't go there anyway.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
You could see what terry and I look like like you
have to put a face with thevoices.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
It's like those radio personalities that you just
don't know what they look likeuntil you get.
You see them on a billboard.
You're like that's not what Iexpected.
Anywho, here we are and we aregoing to welcome our guest right
now yeah, we're gonna welcomemiss renee.
Welcome to the show, reneejacobson earlier it was the shit
show.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
welcome to the shit show it.
Welcome to the show ShulsJacobson.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Yes, thank you, Earlier.
It was the shit show.
Welcome to the shit show.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
It was a shit show we should have been recording from
the beginning, because we arehaving a lot of problems.
But then we brought indiscussions about the water bra,
so it turned out to be justfine.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yes, just fine.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
You know if that doesn't perk anybody up Good
morning.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
I anybody up?
Good morning, welcome to theshit show, renee.
Yeah, all right, thanks.
I can't say much about the boobsituation.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
But she likes the shit show it's good.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
I'm here for it, all right.
Well, everybody I want to read.
I'm going to read off somethingbecause, of course, I can't
memorize't memorize these things, but we want to tell the world
a little bit about you, renee,before we get started.
So, for everybody that isjoining us, our guest today,
renee Schultz-Jacobson, began aslow, medically supervised taper
off a Klonopin which is, as weknow, a commonly prescribed
anti-anxiety med, and she hadtaken it exactly as prescribed
(02:03):
for seven years.
And then, shortly after thatlast bit, renee started to
experience hundreds ofterrifying physical, emotional,
psychological, cognitivesymptoms, endured neuropathy
seizures, memory problems,emotional dysregulation,
digestive issues none of whichwere present prior to taking
(02:23):
that medication.
And so for Renee, it was apiece of never thinking that you
could heal, and so, disabled,for years, she started painting
as a way to distract herselffrom the withdrawal symptoms
that she was forced to endure.
And then here we are, a decadelater, rebuilding a life from
the bottom up, integrating a newmindset, a new diet, a new
worldview and an entirely newsupport system, which we're
(02:44):
going to hear a little bit abouttoday.
Today, renee is an independentartist whose artwork lives in
private collections all over theworld, and it is really cool
that's not in the bio, but Ihave looked at some of it.
I think it's just so beautiful.
The colors just are beyondvibrant.
That's my little piece in there.
In addition to offeringin-person and online classes,
renee is a certified peerrecovery advocate.
She supports people on allstages of their deep
(03:06):
prescription journey.
A published author, her memoirPsychiatrized waking up after a
decade of bad medicinecontemplates the cost of
compliance and exposes the truthabout the dangers associated
with these psychiatric drugs,psychotropic drugs, including
misunderstood and debilitatingneurological dysfunction, which
does affect thousands of men andwomen worldwide upon the
(03:30):
cessation of psychiatric drugs.
So it has become a part ofRenee's life mission to educate
the public the doctorsespecially about the dangers
associated with psychiatricdrugs, and she believes patients
need to be fully informed ofthe risks involved before
agreeing to take any drugs whichmight impact your brain
chemistry.
Renee, welcome to the GaslitTruth.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Thank you.
Thank you for that nice introand I'm really happy to be here.
Actually, I love what you twoare doing.
It's good stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Well, I was watching your face as Jen is doing the
intro and the only thing that Ithought of was did that even
feel like can't explain it?
Speaker 3 (04:07):
I just can't explain it, and I explain it as an
(04:30):
invisible personal Holocaustbecause, you are stuck in a
torture chamber and there's noescape.
It never stops.
You can't, most people can'tsleep, and the symptoms are just
so intense and and it andthey're invisible.
So it's invisible torturechamber during during other
(04:52):
things, you know, people can seethat there's a gun on you or
that you're being zapped, or ifyou hear you know, or if you
have cancer, people can see yousitting there and they're
putting stuff inside of you.
This you look, you look prettyfine and it's just invisible.
It's really your own personalseventh circle of hell.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Right, yeah, Right, Well, and that's the harder part
about damage from psychiatricinterventions right, Because you
can't see.
I mean, for some people we havethese outward signs that are
shown and so for those casesit's almost like okay, well, I
can see something is going on.
But for somebody who is goingthrough the chemical changes in
(05:33):
the brain and the feelings thatyou go through, those symptoms
that just can't be outwardlyseen, it's really hard when you
are even with providers, to beable to explain that in a way
that they can understand,because they're not seeing a
physical, oftentimes a physicalmanifestation of these symptoms.
So it's one of those thingsthat makes it even more
(05:58):
difficult.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
It's like people don't believe you almost you
know Right, and so that's why Ihave all different ways of
explaining it.
And you know, try to like it'slike being invisibly chemically
concussed.
You know, like it is a braininjury and if you had, you know,
an MRI of what a concussion is,you know the lights are too
light, the sound is too loud,there's all different kinds of
(06:22):
symptoms that go along with that.
You know, if you have a like,you know someone shoots you
through your brain, there'simpairments, but you don't have
the hole that you can actuallysee.
So I do talk about it in thatway and in fact, a lot of the
modalities for healing are not,you know, unlike things that you
would do for somebody who'scoming through like actually
brain.
You know brain injury Like a TBIa TBI that helps, that helps
(06:44):
providers, but it is.
It is.
I mean, I've certainly been inthose situations to myself.
It's maddening when someonetries to tell you there's just
no way that you could still beexperiencing this after all this
time.
It's just not possible and it'slike yeah, but yet it is.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah, go to YouTube, you'll see what she just did on
YouTube.
I will join you.
I had my fuck Lexapro cup infront of me.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I was holding a few podcasts ago.
That cause I.
When you say that, renee, I thethe world cannot seem unless
you go through this.
It's a very subjectiveexperience, right?
But yet so many people have it.
When you just made the commentabout sights and sounds and
(07:35):
things like, I went through thismyself a couple of weeks ago
and was literally sittingoutside feeling like the breeze
was too breezy.
The sensation of feeling windon me was was so overwhelming
and I'm looking at people andlooking around me going.
I must be fucking crazy becausethe rest of the of the world
sitting at the baseball gamewith me is perfectly fine and
(07:58):
I'm sitting here going.
I need to go shelter myselfbecause the sensation of touch
right now coming from breeze istoo much for me and I try to
explain it to people and they'rekind of just like oh boy, maybe
you need to stop doing your medtitration.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Well, that's just it.
That's just what Jen just said.
You mention these things topeople and they'll be like maybe
you need to be on thismedication.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Maybe you need to stop your titration, like maybe
that's, that's not okay.
That's actually kind of like apsychotic symptom that's
happening to you when you think.
The breeze feels like too much.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
It's too breezy.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
And and so and so and I, so that's at least for me.
When you say that, I canresonate with that.
I think there's a lot of peoplethat are listening to this
podcast as well that canresonate with these just
indescribable symptoms, right.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Yeah, and I would just add my, so not to throw my
brother under the bus, but mybrother's a doctor and when I
was going through this, he'salready under the bus.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah, I guess he's in front of it.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Sorry.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
No, I'm kidding, Sorry bro, when I was going
through this, I called him, youknow, and I told him what was
going on and he said exactlywhat you said, which is I got to
tell you, renee, this isevidence that you need more
medication.
See, it's just like.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Oh guys, this gives me say that today.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
No.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
So we didn't talk for a long time after that.
But in the years past he, withall the new information that's
come out and all this, it's beena decade, now, 11 years, it
it'll be and he actually wroteme.
I'm getting up now, I'm gettingchoked up.
He wrote me a beautiful letterapologizing and saying he was
(09:36):
sorry.
He this is nothing he wastrained in, he's not a
psychiatrist, he's you know,he's not.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
That's not what he does but he was like it's just
nothing he had ever heard of.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
So not that I want to talk about your brother on here
, but is he like a generalpractitioner, family
practitioner or something else?
Speaker 1 (09:54):
He's a chief of staff and oh, can he come on the
podcast?
No, he won't do it.
No, well, if he's listening,this is an open invitation we
will put a bag on his head orsomething you know no.
I get, I understand why hecan't do that, but you know it's
, it's very interesting I'veasked him to, by the way, to do
things like that.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Oh, I believe yeah.
I believe, yeah, we're, we'rewaiting for we're waiting for
those people to come, which iskind of like our, like little
plug to go.
Hey okay, anybody listening thatmay be in a position like that
Come on, because it is.
You just said it too, renee.
You just said, um, like notbeing educated in it or not on,
(10:28):
like having that knowledge of it.
And then you said you know he'snot a psychiatrist and I would
beg to to fire back with thatand say you know, and even if he
was, guess what Us three womenright here probably know more
about how to safely deprescribe.
I haven't met a psychiatristyet that has been able to
actually meet me toe to toe andhave that conversation with me.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Luckily, I do know some, so I'm happy to name your
way.
After that, get them on here,because let's go.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
It would be great for the world to see that there are
psychiatrists out there thatare safe, that are fully safe.
That can see the whole picturethat you can actually talk to,
that are going to, that have theunderstanding of guess what
that wind hitting you the way itis.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Yes, yeah, I believe that's a symptom of withdrawal.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Here's what's happening in your brain.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yeah Well, and I also want to just add in there the
majority of psychiatricmedication is not prescribed by
psychiatry, that's true.
So you know there's, that iswhere also big disconnect in
education it is.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
So that's big I guess all I was saying is he, he's
not someone who has everprescribed any of these
medications, just not the typeof medicine he practices.
So you know he did his.
He didn't pick psych as aspecialty, it wasn't anything
that he ever.
You know he did his.
He didn't pick psych as aspecialty, it wasn't anything
that he ever.
You know, he's just like yeah,but most of these prescribers
don't.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Most of the prescribers nowadays do not pick
psych as a specialty, but yetthey still prescribe lots and
lots of hardcore things topeople.
But I, Renee, can I just backyour story up a little bit?
I want to hear how you ended upgetting on medication in the
first place if you're willing toshare.
Yeah, how did that start?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
It's an ugly one.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
It always is ugly.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
So I'm going to go like every time I try to tell
this story, I try to just keepit short but as you know, they
have tentacles that go back intoour childhood or whatever.
So I would just say that youknow, as a woman in the United
States growing up in the 70s and80s, boy did we get sold?
(12:35):
A bad bill of goods.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yes, we did.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
The food that we were told is good for us isn't good
for us.
You know, Lucky Charms, they'remagically delicious.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yes, they are magically delicious.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Pure poison right, and all the Swanson's dinners
that you know made it easier forour mothers and the McDonald's
and like just the nutrition andyou know was not there.
And then just this idea thatlike better living through
pharmaceuticals, like if I couldtell you the number of times
that people told me how lucky weare that we live in this
(13:09):
country where we have access tomedication.
So that's a story that I grewup hearing.
I will also confess, I grew upin a Jewish, you know, very
religious family and you knowthere's that stereotype of like,
oh, you'll marry a Jewishdoctor one day, right?
Oh, it's like that's thehighest, that's the highest
(13:29):
place that you could go is thatyou marry, you land a Jewish
doctor.
So that was a lot of religiousdogma that I grew up with.
That like I will be the windbeneath his wings I, you know
that like Sounds so beautiful oh.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Bette, Bette Midler, you sound great Bette, so you
know.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Yeah, I was.
I was supposed to repopulate,like I.
It's very, very important to bechaste and a virgin, you know
all those kinds of things, andthis is not that long ago, you
know.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
No, this is not the twenties, but the eighties.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
She's talking about the eighties.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
I was born in 67, but this was the spring, yes.
So, um, what happened is I waswent to a summer camp and I was
raped in 1985, that summer, bysomebody who was five years
older than I was.
Um, I was 17 and so I was notyet in college and he was
(14:27):
graduated from college with verydifferent expectations about
what was happening with us.
And I came home from so I,after that experience, I told my
friends what had happened.
They literally couldn't hear me.
It was like they.
Their responses were oh myfriends, what had happened?
They literally couldn't hear me.
It was like they, they.
Their responses were oh my God,you guys had sex.
(14:48):
That's so cute.
And I kept saying it wasn't.
There was no word for that.
Then there was no word becauseI knew him.
I had thought rape was like witha gun or a knife, with a
stranger in the alley.
So everyone just kept tellingme it was so cute that like I
had done this and it was great.
And I was like it wasn't great.
You guys aren't hearing me, Ididn't want to and it just so.
(15:11):
Anyway, it wasn't like hestopped to use a condom or
anything.
So I went home.
I was supposed to go to college.
About two weeks later it was Iwent home.
I did not get a period.
It wasn't like he took care ofthat or anything.
So, um, you know, there was not, that was not happening, it was
not that dynamic.
So, um, I had to tell my motherand I told my mother and her
(15:37):
response was like it's so weird,like when you're asking if I
can even believe this is my life, when I read about this I have
so much indignation.
But when it was my own mother,she shamed me.
She was like why were you out?
What were you wearing?
You must have done something togive him the idea that you were
interested in that.
And then, of course, she saidwe have to tell your father and
(16:01):
my dad and I are besties, likehe is my best friend to this day
.
He is my bestie and I was.
I knew he would think that I was, you know, a bad.
I was worried he was going tothink I was a bad girl, that I
wasn't chased, that I was not avirgin anymore, that I was
ruined the way my mother said Iwas ruined.
(16:22):
And we went in the kitchen andI'll never forget it.
He was doing a crossword puzzleand eating a tangerine, which
is what he does every singlenight.
And my mother said go ahead andtell him what happened.
And I was crying and I told himand this is really like his
response to me was sointeresting because we didn't
(16:44):
talk about it until decadeslater but what?
The reason why he did this istotally the way, differently
than the way I received it, butin the moment he heard me he put
down his pen and he put hishead down on the paper, like on
the newspaper, so like he justput his head down.
And how would you guys feelLike if your dad did that?
(17:07):
What would?
I'm just curious.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
He was disappointed in me.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
I internalized that as total disappointment.
He couldn't even look at me.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Right.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Couldn't even look at me.
That is not what he was feeling.
By the way, he told me decadelater, after I, you know, we
discussed this as adults, many,you know, many years later, he,
he, felt like he had failed meas a parent.
Sure.
He didn't protect me.
He's the one that sent me tothat summer camp and he felt
horrible.
So I did not register that atall anyway, and so I I told him
(17:41):
I was sent to.
So here's where we go.
I was sent to the doctor thenext day for pregnancy testing,
for AIDS testing, because thiswas 1985, right in the middle.
And so for me, what got sort ofsticky for me is that you do
(18:01):
something, something bad happens, you go to the doctor and then
the doctor will check you andyou may need some kind of
treatment or medication and youneed to trust your.
You know you trust your doctorthere.
So I went to the doctor and itwas like I was not pregnant.
I had to be tested repeatedlyfor AIDS.
(18:24):
For the first I went every sixmonths to do these checks or
whatever.
I think it was even threemonths for the first six months.
So it was like three months andthen a year after everything
was clear.
And then I had this like sighof relief of like, oh my God,
like I'm okay.
I felt like I was okayphysically, never went and got
therapy, never.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
I want to bring this up though, because I'm an
eighties girl too, graduated in87.
And well, EMDR wasn't even athing, I think, until 86, maybe
later, but it wasn't a researchthing.
That's just when she, like,discovered it.
But trauma treatment wasn'treally a thing.
I mean, we're talking ourparents anyways.
Mine Vietnam vet right, Like soera of war.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
And my grandparents too.
World War II vet.
You know, like Korean War,world War II like.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, even those words weren't used, like this
vernacular didn't exist.
It did not, there was not.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
No there was not.
And, by the way, I want to say,like the, the, your lived
experience of um, your firstsexual encounter like that is so
familiar, so familiar toespecially well, I mean, I'm
sure, women of today too, butespecially back in that time,
like you know, it was verysimilar to my own and I didn't
(19:47):
recognize that as a traumaticthing then either.
You know, it was like your riteof passage and that's just how
it goes down and you know you'rejust supposed to be like that.
And it got me thinking about.
Do you remember that movie byJodie Foster, the Accused?
That was the first movie aboutrape, about someone being raped.
(20:10):
That I can recall bringing itinto the mainstream as far as,
like, it's not about what youwear, it's not about all those
things, because as women, that'swhat we were told.
Well, you must have, youdeserved it in some way.
And then, oh, you're medicallycleared, Move on.
You know it's now over, I don'twant to hear about it anymore,
you shouldn't talk about itanymore.
And yeah, that's it, yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Yeah, and so I know now because obviously I have as
a sidebar this is an interestingone.
So I've had almost 600 clients.
Do you want to guess the numberof people who report having
sexual trauma?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Oh, I'm going to say it's like 90%.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Everyone but three oh .
Speaker 1 (20:51):
I was close.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Yeah, I should play the lottery today, everyone but
three, and even those three theydon't call it trauma, so you
don't have to go by that, butthey don't.
But one of them, one of thosepeople has, like, sexual
identity issues, you know, likea.
So there was some, there wassome stuff going on there that
it was making some imprinting.
Anyway, that is fascinating tome, that that that early
(21:14):
childhood experience, even justone time, it's a predictor of
who may end up on these, youknow, having a later situation
where they end up prescribed.
It's anti-anxiety,anti-depressants, it's like a
predictor.
So we have to get in there tohelp people lose the stigma, the
shame around sexual trauma.
(21:36):
And again, I will say this wasone event for me.
I think about women who haverepeated events or grow up in
situations, so it's like asingle event can change your
whole life.
So anyway, the idea was you'refine, right, you're going to,
you can go right to college,this we didn't have to stop the
show and honestly, I was likeready, I went to college and I I
(21:59):
did all the things in the order, I was a good student and I had
made friends and I you know allthat, I all that.
But I and the backstory of it, Ihad a lot of fear.
I didn't go to fraternityparties I didn't train ever
because there was alcoholinvolved in that.
Previous thing Not me, not byme, but he smelled like alcohol.
(22:23):
So the smell of alcohol in afraternity freaked me out.
I didn't want to be aroundpeople that were drinking and so
I became basically like abookworm and a very you know and
so that's kind of that earlyworkaholism stuff.
That, like my coping skill wasstudy, be a good girl, get good
grades, and that was my primarycoping skill was that like, oh,
(22:44):
I'm not doing that, I'm gonna goto the library and read.
So I did that for a long time.
Well, you know, that helped meto graduate with high honors and
you know cum laude and Phi BetaKappa, and and that brought me
to the next place in my lifewhere I went to graduate school
and continued that same, thatsame trajectory of like, same
trajectory of work hard, getgood grades to get to the next
(23:07):
place.
Anyway, I ended up meeting aJewish doctor.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
All your dreams came true.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
All my dreams were manifested, fixed.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
And then it's fixed.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yeah, you're fixed again, even more than you could
have been fixed before.
And, and he's a good person, andon paper it looked like we
should have been the dreamcouple and, honestly, for a
while we kind of were, you know,like we were both in school and
so he was working hard and Iwas working hard and we traveled
together.
We knew a lot of the samepeople, you know.
(23:40):
It was very interconnected andmeshed Um and uh he.
However, we didn't have I'mtrying to tactfully say this we
didn't have a great um, wedidn't have chemistry.
And now, when I look back atthat, I understand it's because
(24:04):
when this stuff happened with myfirst you know that early
situation, none of that wasaddressed and so I picked
someone that was never going tothreaten me in that way.
But that's all unconscious,completely unconscious way, but
(24:28):
that's all unconscious,completely unconscious.
So, um, so, yeah.
So that was okay, you know, andI loved him and we still love
each other.
But we had very differentdrives.
I'm very sensual sexual person,so, within the confines of
marriage, I wanted to have stuffand he was like I'm busy, I'm a
surgeon, I can't, I don't wantto that kind of thing.
So you can imagine then thedance at nighttime when we would
(24:49):
go to bed.
It would be like I was making arequest, he was rejecting me,
and it was night after night andI started to feel really bad
about myself.
My, you know, my self-esteemtook a big hit.
We're talking years and years.
Anyway, that went on.
Finally we got pregnant prettyquickly.
(25:12):
After you know, when we decidedto do that and my son, his
delivery was a disaster.
I mean, the whole pregnancy wasjust a wreck.
I was one of those people whovomited up until the fifth month
.
Yeah, it was really bad, andthen I had an abruption.
So I wound up having to be onbed rest and then his delivery
(25:37):
was very traumatic, was verytraumatic.
I lost I think they calculatedlike 80% of my blood I lost and
I was rushed into the ER for anemergency hysterectomy and so my
expectations around what birthwas going to be like was like
(25:58):
which I should add I did nothave to have the hysterectomy
because I had an amazing doctor,but that's what they were
rushing me to do, cause I wasbleeding out.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
No, but this is more like a more sexual trauma, like
all that area right.
Exactly None of this stuff hadever been addressed and I again.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
I didn't learn that years later, but anyway, um,
same kind of thing repeating thepattern here.
So it was like I woke up fromthis and everyone was like, oh
my God, you're awake.
And my first words were am Idead?
And someone said, no, you'reokay, and the baby wasn't with
me, he had had to go to the NICU.
(26:33):
And so it became this weirdthing of like I wanted to tell
somebody like how unwell I was.
I did not feel good.
I had had a near deathexperience.
There was a lot that happenedwhich I won't get into.
It's all in my exciting bookhere.
But I had a really crazyexperience, very clear, like a
(26:53):
death experience where I won'teven get into everything.
But I came out of that and Iwanted to talk about it.
I wanted to tell people I hadseen the other side and I knew
what was there and people werelike honey, let that go, the
baby's here you have, you knowyou're fine.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
You want to keep this baby alive now.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Right, like you know, make sure you can nurse and
let's make sure you know, andall that.
And I was like, but I, I sawthe other side, I saw the edge,
like I know it's.
I had some downloads, man, Ihad some downloads man and they
were like shh, it's on the baby.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
It's the same thing.
You had this big experience.
You're like quiet Just quiet.
Now you've got to do the thingthat you're supposed to do now.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Look at the cute outfit that you got Look at the
blanket, and so I really learnedit was again that silence Be
quiet.
Don't talk too much so I did.
I never talked about it everagain.
I was a good girl.
I was trying to be the bestmother I could be.
I loved being a mother.
I loved my.
I love my son.
He's going to be 25 soon, he's26.
(27:55):
He's amazing and but there'sbut it.
But it began the sidelining oflike what you feel does not
matter.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Yeah, dismiss yourself over and over.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Yep, so this whole idea of self-care when people
started to like later, whenpeople started to talk to me
about that, I had no concept ofself-care, Did not understand it
.
When even people talked aboutloving yourself, I was like what
do you mean?
Speaker 1 (28:24):
I talk about this a lot.
I'm like as a full-fledged GenXer myself.
Along with you, we were soldthis dream that we should and
can do everything.
Yeah, and we have trickled thatdown to our kids.
And Jen, you're not Gen X,you're like on the.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
I'm right on the cusp , but I will tell you that that
trickle, yeah, I mean that's,I'm, I'm in the same position.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Um, that, I was taught to be that way to do
those things, that's and, by theway, you get to go to college
and you get to juggle all thisstuff, like that was exciting.
Like that that was an excitingtime.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
I mean you make shit happen and that's all there is
to it and you leave everything.
I mean my God, my LLC is calledMake Things Happen.
I mean that's my LLC, mine'sRans to the Rescue.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Mine's Inner Strength .
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Lame, okay, but for me, like that's the same.
I was taught that that is whatwas my parents.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
I was.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
that was what was Holy crap.
Three overachievers.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Oh, one, two, three yes.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, you may as well just just put the numbers right
on there, because I may not bein that that same age group, but
I, I am an old soul, 100%.
I was born at the wrong timetime.
I was given a different set ofvalues, shit, I do not my.
I go back to the 70s for music.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Like, give me the 70s all day long and I'll be
happier than if you give me this90s stuff, but anyways, but
that is all very real so we justworked out then was that now
I'm not only just holding thislike complex sexual trauma from
early in life, but now I've hadthis horrible delivery, same
region and and I'm like I, noone wants to hear that either
(30:07):
and so I just held it alltogether and, um, I was also
went back to you know, it waslike it was kind of boring, like
I'm a, I'm a mover, we'removers and shakers Right.
And so I was like, oh my God,the you know the dishes and the
laundry and the diapers like Igot to do something.
And I asked my husband if hewould be willing to like take a
(30:27):
day off so that I could havesomething once a week.
And he said no.
He said like.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
no, I'm the primary breadwinner.
How's that supposed to work?
Speaker 3 (30:35):
No, and you know there were days that he was
taking half days off to gogolfing, but he wasn't coming to
, he wasn't to help, exactly, itwasn't to parent.
So I did that for a long, longtime and then round about, well,
I mean it wasn't that longbefore I ended up getting
Medicaid.
So five years I did that.
(30:56):
And then the insomnia.
I just I, from the time my sonwas born, I never really got the
sleep back.
You know they're crying, you'renursing, blah, blah, blah, but
then he was getting in and outof bed and and and all that
stuff.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Yeah, it doesn't stop .
Speaker 3 (31:12):
Oh right, and then he was and all that and and he was
a good baby, like he was a good, he was an easy baby.
So it wasn't like um, he wasmaking all those demands, but I
was awake and alert and all thisanyway.
And around the time he turnedfive I was just not sleeping and
my ex my now ex-husband but my,my husband said you know, you
(31:33):
got to go and talk, you got tosee a psychiatrist because
you're not sleeping.
Maybe somebody can give yousomething.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Or he didn't even say a psychiatrist.
He said you gotta go see thedoctor.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
So I went to my general practitioner.
He's retired now, but he said Ium, I will refer you to someone
.
So he referred me to apsychiatrist who within 15
minutes diagnosed me withanxiety, depression, bipolar
disorder and borderlinepersonality disorder.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Oh what?
That's the icing on the cake.
Oh my.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
God Are you serious.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Okay, that blows my mind Like more so.
Okay, that is like a.
That is a characterologicalfeature of somebody that
requires understanding theirlife, everything about
everything about them to put apersonality disorder on somebody
15 minutes.
That is.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
I filled out a questionnaire.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Can I just ask you?
Well, number one did youbelieve it?
Did you like, because you gotthese labels, did you then?
Speaker 3 (32:40):
believe the labels.
So I was very, I wasn'tsleeping, so I was very
emotional, you know, and crying.
I was anxious, for sure, I wasanxious because I wasn't
sleeping.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
I was going to say because you're not sleeping, For
sure, I was anxious because Iwasn't sleeping.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
I was going to say because you're not sleeping
Right?
And still, by the way, I hadnever changed a diaper before my
child's own diaper.
Like, as a babysitter I waslike I like the older kids.
Yeah, as a teacher in myprevious incarnation, I had the
high schoolers.
Like I was not.
You know, please don't give methose.
So I didn't have experience.
So I was an ang, I was ananxious, worried about
(33:21):
everything.
I was on bedrest for the lastpart of my pregnancy because of
the you know stuff, and so Inever even got like the classes
that people get.
So I had anxiety and thenbipolar I was up and down, you
know, and so I was like, oh myGod, I don't know what this
other one is.
So all I can say to you is,when you hit on that, dr T, I
(33:46):
remember going in the car andbawling my eyes out, holding
these scripts.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Oh, that's your story , Terry tiri vault.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Really, yeah, how many scripts she had.
I had lamictal, um, clonopin,prozac.
They gave me three right outthe gate and um.
Actually that's not true.
It was prozac and lamictalright out the gate, and then he
gave me clonopin later when Ifailed.
When I failed.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
You.
Yes, I failed.
I had a manic experience.
Wait, you had a manicexperience on that stuff.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Yeah, I'm a pro.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
That just means you mean more.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
That's all that means Of course I was twitching and I
was like is my eye twitching?
Do you guys see it?
Speaker 2 (34:32):
You didn't ride it out long enough.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
You're supposed to just let it go longer.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Yeah, it didn't take long enough ride it out long
enough.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
You're supposed to just let it go longer.
Yeah, it didn't take longenough.
Maybe we need to try another.
They shifted me to Zoloft andthen I tried a third one, so it
was.
It was Prozac, zoloft, celexa,and then I went back to this
doctor and he said you failed heliterally used these words you
failed SSRIs, so now we're goingto give you a benzodiazepine,
and I was like I wish we were,we had enough in us at these
(34:59):
moments to be like no, yourtreatment failed me Like.
I believed that I was ruined.
I know I was ruined Back when Iwas 17, I was ruined.
So this is clearly what itmeans to be ruined.
This is what it is.
This is now the now, there'swords for it.
Now there's a code for it.
So when you asked if I believedit, I I had that experience of.
(35:26):
That's the beginning of thegaslighting, right when it was
like, oh, there is somethingwrong with me, but here's the
pills to fix it.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
This is going to change my life.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
So for you then, the, the Klonopin, is it for that?
That one is one that you talkabout a little bit more than the
others, so others were likethey tried they were on and off
two weeks.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
But we now know that stuff it all has a cumulative
effect to your brain, is like,okay, this is what she wants.
And then you take it off andthen you try something else and
your brain's like, okay, this iswhat she wants.
And so you get that kindlingeffect in your brain, that that
you know like it has acumulative effect.
But the Klonopin is the onethat I took for seven years and
(36:16):
for most of that period that'sthe only thing you know.
If I had a pill box, that's theonly thing that was in there.
So I really do attribute thedamage to the benzodiazepines.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
So can you talk then a little bit about that?
So I know in your bio, when Iwas reading it, there's, you
know, some general informationon symptomology.
Can you share with us what itwas that you experienced?
Speaker 3 (36:38):
So my journey is a little weird or maybe it's not
weird because I've talked to somany people.
It's not unusual.
But I was fine on the benzosfor a long time.
In fact, I used to refer tothem as a miracle drug, because
within 15 minutes of poppingthat sucker I was out, and when
you have insomnia it was like sorelaxing to just know I'm going
(37:01):
to take that and I'm going toget the effect that I want.
But um, but now I think of thatas like.
So it gave me a bottle of vodkaand said drink till you
blackout.
Yep.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Pretty much, that's what it is.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
A different pill in pill form.
So you know, and I would neverhave done that, I would have
walked out of that office.
Anyway, long story longer, Iguess is that round about the
seventh year I went to go see mydoctor and there was a note on
the door and it said you know,dr So-and-so has decided, you
know, to take an earlyretirement.
(37:34):
You need to go back to yourprimary care and there's a
decided, you know, to take anearly retirement.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
you need to go back to your primary care, and I know
it on the door.
What is the world?
Okay, everybody.
This is not 40, 50, 60 yearsago, by the way, so the only
thing I knew about this dog wasthat you an email?
Speaker 3 (37:51):
No, no email.
They were so bad in the mail hewas old and there was no, no,
no, it was so many things he'slost, so anyway, I went to my
primary care and I learned fromhim, my primary guy.
He said oh renee, he lost hislicense due to improper
prescription practice.
(38:11):
And I said really, what was heprescribing?
Klonopin?
That was like my denial.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Yeah, really what was he giving to other people
Because this was good for me?
Damn lucky charms.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
God Did not register.
So my doctor was like I hate totell you this, but you're going
to need an addiction specialist.
And I was like what my doctorwas like I hate to tell you this
, but you're going to need anaddiction specialist.
And I was like what addictionspecialist?
Speaker 2 (38:42):
I have never taken more than was prescribed, and
he's like your body is dependent.
And what a great doctor, though.
Props, props to that that thatdoctor right there who used the
word addiction too.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
He's retired now, but I will give him his name.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Come on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
His name is Dr John Andalina and he is in the book.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
He's in the book Nameless self-promotion.
Right here, come on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
He's retired and he was the one he apologized to me
for sending me in the firstplace.
He didn't know, but you knowthat's what happens.
So anyway, I went to theaddiction specialist.
Her name is Dr PatriciaHalligan.
She's amazing and she there.
But for the grace of God, shelived in Rochester and she knew
how to taper.
She was following the Ashtonmanual and knew that you can't
(39:25):
just pull it off of it.
She, so slow medically, likeyou referred to with my bio,
slow, medically supervised,taper 10 months.
The thing that we didn't getright was we didn't switch to a
water titration or a liquidtitration.
At the end she crossed me overto Valium when I got down low
enough on the.
(39:46):
So Klonopin is about 15 to 20,you know it depends on your what
I say between 15 and 20% timesstronger.
So Valium is, or Klonopin is,about 15 to 20 times stronger
than Valium.
So when I got down to that tinytiny crumb of Klonopin now we
know that you could eithercontinue to do like a you know a
(40:06):
continue on that medication orbut we crossed over to Valium so
that I could continue to taper.
And then when I got down to aslow as.
I could go on the Valium, whichwas like 0.125, I thought we
were done.
She was out of town, I couldn'tget a message to her and so I
stopped it and I had a cascadeof symptoms.
(40:26):
It was real scary.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
It's crazy, it's always that last little bit and
people think that it's thesmooth sailing up front, like up
top the big ones, and then thatlast little bit.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Yeah, and Mark Horowitz talks about that and I
don't totally.
It's hard for me to explain it,but it's that stuff on your
receptors like the little yeah.
So anyway, so yeah, so thatlast bit, it just exploded and
so I couldn't.
Initially I couldn't walk, Icouldn't talk, I couldn't read,
I couldn't write.
(41:02):
I was rocking, like you see,autistic, like I was rocking, I
think it was like trying toself-soothe.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Like horrible akathisia.
Oh, terrible akathisia.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
Tardive dyskinesia, which is the uncontrollable body
movements of pacing.
And then I had paranoia, like I.
I looked around the house and Isaw like there were outlets
that had multiple plugs in themand I was like this house is
going to burn down, we're goingto, I'm going to die.
The windows don't open.
It was really, really strange.
So you know, my story goes onand on with my book and people
(41:35):
can obviously read it, but thatwas how it all fell apart.
And then basically I was on myown.
I did not have a support systemfor I did Google, like
clonazepam and like like thatwithdrawal effects or something
like that and I found a woman,um, and I I won't say her name
(42:05):
because I don't think she iswanting to do this anymore, but
she really helped me.
She had been through this and,um, and she was the first person
to help me.
And then I mean I don't want towreck my whole book, but like I
was really depressed and goingto kill myself because I I
(42:26):
couldn't see a way out of thisand like doctors were telling me
that they've never seen thisbefore, um, everyone was telling
me that I need to take moremedication, that this was
evidence that I was completelywrecked and so I was
contemplating on aliving myself.
And I was sitting outside of abuilding and a woman came up to
me and saw me crying and shesaid are you okay?
(42:50):
And I said no, I am not.
And I told her what was goingon and she said do you want to
come home with me?
And you guys, I didn't even askher name.
I got up, I followed her like apuppy to her car and she
brought me home with her, and itturns out she had been through
this experience.
And her name is Renee McLean.
(43:12):
She runs a wellness center.
It's called.
Oh my God, I know it's likeright.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Talk about the universe giving you exactly what
you needed, right.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
Absolutely, and so she brought me home with her and
yeah, we have the same name andall that, and anyway, she
taught me about juicingsupplement, that that these
drugs deplete your magnesium andother things you know.
So she taught me about how,like good diet, she taught me,
(43:43):
oh my God.
She taught you the missingpieces of all she taught me the
missing pieces and she gave mecommunity, her family.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
I lived with her family.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
Can you imagine?
She brought me in and herchildren were there and they're
like, oh, you're not the firststray mom's brought home.
And her children were there andthey're like, oh, you're not
the first stray mom's broughthome.
It's awesome, amazing.
And so she's.
She actually does breath work.
So somatic respiratoryintegration.
She I was like living with mytherapist for a year and by then
(44:12):
I was so.
Then when I went home and I sortof looked at my, my husband and
his, the family system and allthat, I was like I am not
getting what I need here at all.
And then I went to rehab, likeI went to a rehab, and then I
came home and I was like I gotto get out of here.
This is a toxic environment forme, because everyone was like,
oh, you're doing a little bitbetter, back to cooking and
(44:34):
cleaning and like taking care ofit, and I was like I needed
therapy, I needed a lot of work.
And so I went and did my ownhealing journey, which involves,
like you were saying, you know,emdr and CBT and DBT and and
body work and um, you know, johnBarnes, massage and like all
(44:55):
different kinds and and you know, eft, tapping and like all you
know, john Barnes, massage, andlike all different kinds, and
you know, eft tapping and, likeall you know, moving.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
The self-care that you never learned about.
Speaker 3 (45:04):
And just allowing myself to feel and grieve for
this younger girl who, like, didnot get what she needed and so
all that.
And so now, you know, so, whileI was going through that, I
started having these visionslike and hearing words, and I
started painting, and sopainting became, instead of that
, like rush, rush, hurry up,like, get things done.
(45:25):
I started painting and it's 10years later and my artwork is
hanging in like people's privatecollections all over the world,
and that, to me, is a miracle.
Like when you're talking aboutthe universe and divine
intervention, I mean, I wasbeing asked to do something else
, and so one of the things I dowant to just sort of throw in
(45:46):
here, because I know we'regetting like to the time, but
people who are going throughthis, you feel so helpless and
hopeless.
Helpless and hopeless and Iknow it's like a little bit of a
you know maybe it's cliche now,but that idea that the universe
is things aren't happening toyou, they're happening for you,
(46:12):
it's both Things are happeningto you, but I never could have
imagined that my former Englishteacher self would not be able
to read or write.
Like that was my, that was mymodus operandi.
And then, but during thishealing, something else started
to emerge, which is that, like I, actually I can paint and that
people liked my paintings, andso now I really use my artwork
as a, as a as a tool to reallytalk about psychiatric
(46:36):
medication harm, because I neverdid this before my injury and
it was.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
It was it wasn't like I came out of the.
Speaker 3 (46:45):
You know it wasn't like everything was like a
beautiful picture at first, butit was like everything else.
It was a re-education and are-learning about myself.
And you spend 10,000, right,that's that Malcolm Gladwell
thing.
You spend 10,000 hours doingsomething and you get good at it
.
Well, when you're in withdrawaland you're as sick as I was
which not everybody is, but Iwas laid out for um from 20.
(47:07):
So 2013 was gone, 2014 was gone.
My first painting I put out uhwas was, uh, april of 2014.
And then slowly, slowly, I justkept painting and painting and
painting.
My first painting I put out wasApril of 2014.
And then, slowly, slowly, Ijust kept painting and painting
and painting, launched a websitein 2017.
So there was a lot of paintingwithout anything happening for a
long time.
It was just my coping skill.
(47:28):
It was a coping skill, not abusiness plan.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Right.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
But now it's like, oh my gosh, something was
happening.
I was getting a different kindof an education and that's
spiritual thing, that'sspiritual awakening, that like
God, universe, Gaia, whateveryou want to call it, all of this
was like a cosmic correction.
I call it a little cosmic asskicking.
I got off my path somewhere.
(47:53):
I got off my path, got some badadvice, didn't get to know
myself, just was sort of doingwhat people told me within the
lines.
And there's this whole otherpart of me that I just never had
a chance to explore until I hadto.
And I really like who I am nowand I love what I do and I love
(48:13):
helping other people to figurethis stuff out and I love
helping other people to figurethis stuff out.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
I just want to say, if you're watching this on
YouTube or even listening toRenee talk right now, it's tough
because we see this version ofyou, and so there's so many
people out there that are likein the depths of darkness right
(48:40):
now with this stuff, and so eventhe believability of the story
now, from who you are to then isjust interesting to me.
So I want to caution peoplethat when you see her now, this
is because of healing.
This is because of what she'sdone for herself and been an
active participant in it.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
Because can I piggyback on that for a second?
There is a perception out thereand you guys correct me if I'm
wrong that you just have to wait, that you just sit on the couch
and it's going to go away.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Well, I think that's the perception for a lot of med
tapering period that it's justthis taper off and then we're
done and I just sit.
I believe that med tapering ofany type of medication is an
active um.
You have to be an activeparticipant in this and you have
to change some things, um,whether it's you know, you know,
working on your trauma orchanging the food that you put
(49:31):
in your mouth or your job oryour marriage or lifestyle
Lifestyle.
Because most of the time that'sthe stuff that got you into this
in the first place.
Like you know, it would beinteresting to figure out what
was really happening, you know,with your sleep, to know like if
(49:51):
somebody just would have donesome sleep work with you
probably would have changed thewhole trajectory for you earlier
.
Not on meds, you know the waythat they did.
I feel like you're bursting tosay something.
Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
It was just so connected because I, my parents,
are so in love with each other.
I grew up in a family wherethere's a lot of physical touch
and there was just this absenceof connection.
So even if I had done the sleepwork for me in my head, bed is
not just for sleeping, it's forcuddling.
I mean, if we called my parentsright now at noon, they're in
(50:25):
bed, they are doing stuff.
They're doing stuff y'all.
They're watching.
They hang out the only thingthey can do when they're asleep.
But they're in bed.
I grew up seeing that and notthat I needed that, but I knew
that-.
You needed something, I neededthat, and so for me, the
insomnia I'm real clear was aneed was not being met and the
(50:48):
universe was trying to show methat something's not right.
It's the warning system of yourcar saying something's not
right.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
Yeah, yeah, I overwrote it.
Speaker 3 (50:59):
I overwrote it with the medicine.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
Like the check engine light.
Yeah, quit putting a piece ofblack tape over it so you don't
have to look at it, right?
Speaker 3 (51:06):
Emergency, emergency at that point, and people take
better care of their cars yeah,and they use their own body.
They do, and their pets too, bythe way.
Clean washing that thing,waxing that thing, mcdonald's
and crap and you know I gotta, Igotta bring this up.
Speaker 2 (51:24):
So you were talking about your painting, okay, and
you were talking about all thework you know, like, this is the
.
So this is the front of your,your book that you wrote, and I
know, you, you, you created thecover to this.
I did.
This is all you.
Speaker 3 (51:37):
I did.
Speaker 2 (51:39):
Yeah, so for anybody that is on YouTube and that's
watching us on YouTube right now, I just wanted to show you what
the publication that Renee hasput out looks like, and once
again-.
Speaker 3 (51:47):
That was my COVID project.
I wrote it during the lockdown,because how much art can you
make?
I mean, I was doing a lot ofclasses online, but I needed to
do something else, and by then,I also wanted to say I was
writing it.
You know I'm writing again.
I'm my.
You know this is so I starteddoing that and, um, I teach
(52:09):
memoir writing classes, so itwas like a natural that the time
was that, and then it waspublished in November of 2021.
And so it was just a naturalprogression of like, so many
people wanted to know my story.
I didn't want to say it overand over again, but but it is.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
It's the stifling of this creativity Just to real
quickly.
So we had Brooke see him on theshow a couple episodes ago and
it's really.
It was interesting to mebecause she became a painter and
her stuff is so cool too.
She wrote a book, like allthese things that I'm like God.
If we would just maybe stopchemically restraining our
(52:43):
creativity, imagine what kind ofworld we would live in, you
know.
Speaker 3 (52:46):
Well, I believe it's.
Yeah, I believe that's what'shappening.
It's by design, all the feelers, the artists, the you know
creativity, whatever, all thesespicy neuro brains out there
that are now like taking ADDmedication to make them.
It's like we need those neurospicy brains, we need these
(53:06):
different ways of thinking.
The connectors are beingmedicated, the emotional people
who are the bridges.
You know, I'm the one peoplealways go to with their problems
, but if I'm medicated, I can'thelp you help you.
I'm going to tell you to takepills.
So I do believe that we are inthe middle of a huge paradigm
shift right now, which is veryexciting, and you guys are part
of it.
(53:26):
You're spearheading, oh yeah,we are.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
We're spearheaders, now we are spearheaders, You're
pioneers spearheaders.
Whatever Spearheaded tenacious,we're spearheaders now.
Speaker 2 (53:38):
We are spearheaders, we're spearheaders.
Speaker 1 (53:39):
Well, anyway, anyway to bring.
Well, you know, any way to bringyou know these messages forward
and um to for our listeners tounderstand that there there is
light and hope at the end of thetunnel here, but you do need to
be an active participant inyour life to get there.
Um, and in your life to getthere, and I think that's the
(54:00):
message too.
We were doing life right,especially Gen X.
We were doing life, but I don'tknow that I could call myself a
real active participant in mylife.
I was doing life, but I don'tknow that I was participating in
my own life, yeah, so I think alot of Gen Xers would relate to
that.
Speaker 3 (54:17):
I wouldn't have seen it that way at the time.
Speaker 1 (54:20):
Right, oh gosh, no, I was just.
Speaker 2 (54:21):
I was doing what I should be doing, should be doing
, but now it's pretty crazy whenyou, when you see it a
different way, you can't unknowwhat you know now.
Like there's just no otherexplanation for it, other than
being able to see it differentlynow.
Speaker 3 (54:35):
And I will say I'm so blessed that my parents are
both still alive and so they'veseen me go into this hole and
come out of it and they are.
It has changed them.
It has made our we've had theopportunity to work on our stuff
that I got to go back and sayto my mother you said some
(54:56):
terrible things to me and shewas just telling me what she was
told you know all that.
So we had a chance to reallyclear that and our relationship
is better than ever.
So healing isn't just likegetting off the medication, like
you're saying you know likeit's it's, it's all the stuff
that brought you there and andmaking amends and fixing it and
and having those hardconversations, and then it's so
(55:19):
much better.
So they are proud of me now.
I mean not that they weren'tbefore, but they're proud of me.
Speaker 1 (55:24):
You know it now.
Speaker 3 (55:25):
Yeah, yeah, and I know it too.
Whether they're proud of me ornot, I'm proud of me now.
Speaker 1 (55:30):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (55:31):
A blessing that I have them behind me too.
They were always there, I justdidn't know.
Speaker 2 (55:36):
Yes, Well this has been really.
Thank you, renee, for giving usthe time for you to share this
story.
Thank you, it's been fantasticand I think, as you were
speaking, there was a couple oftimes where I was, on this end,
like I started getting tearyeyed because I can sit in so
many things that you're sayingand that's the beauty of this,
(55:58):
too is we're a community that isbrought together now by by the
pain and all the bullshit thatwe've gone through, right Like
there's this whole communitythat forms now, and I know
people listening to this feelexactly the same exact thing.
Speaker 3 (56:09):
Yeah, it is the.
It is the real positive side tothe internet.
Right that, like I didn't getinside my house, uh, suffering,
I mean, how could you make it?
I had the internet to do thatinitial research, and then all
this over the last 10,.
I mean, this wasn't here when Iwas going through it 10 years
ago right?
Speaker 1 (56:26):
No, it's not coalition surviving.
Speaker 3 (56:29):
I mean, this stuff wasn't there, but it's here now
and it's gonna help so manypeople.
Speaker 1 (56:35):
So not alone.
Well, thank you for being onthe show, yes, and for anyone
listening, make sure that youlike, follow, share, subscribe
and apparently now you can sendus fan mail.
Speaker 2 (56:47):
Yes, we get fan mail.
It's fantastic.
We've gotten fan mail from allover the United States.
Some of it is very intriguing,so please feel free to send us
some fan mail if you want, andyou can find us on.
Anywhere that you're going tobe listening to podcasts, you
can hear us, or you can get uson all the socials.
We are the Gaslit Truth Podcastand, for those of you that
still use good old email, youcan hit us at
(57:07):
thegaslittruthpodcast atgmailcom.
And thank you, renee, for beinghere today.
Speaker 3 (57:12):
Thanks, guys, we appreciate it.
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