"Is your pancreas suddenly malfunctioning, or could it be your antidepressant?" That's the question at the heart of this explosive episode where we reveal the shocking disconnect between existing research and what medical providers tell patients about SSRI side effects.
When co-host Jen called her doctor about concerning blood glucose results during her Lexapro taper, she was immediately shut down with "No, that can't be related to your medication." But as we uncover, multiple studies dating back over a decade have established clear connections between SSRIs and metabolic disturbances. We share a jaw-dropping recording of this medical gaslighting in action, breaking down all the ways Jen's legitimate concerns were dismissed without consideration.
Looking deeper, we explore compelling research including a 2013 study showing significant increases in weight, blood glucose, cholesterol, and triglycerides in women taking various SSRIs for just 16 weeks. Even more convincingly, a massive 2020 Japanese study of 90,000 participants concluded that "antidepressants increased the risk of type 2 diabetes," with risk increasing alongside duration and dosage of medication use. Perhaps most importantly, both studies found these metabolic markers returned to baseline after discontinuation - exactly what many patients report but are told is impossible.
This episode serves as both validation for those who've felt dismissed by healthcare providers and as ammunition for your next medical appointment. We discuss strategies for advocating for yourself, monitoring your own health metrics, and navigating a system that often refuses to acknowledge medication side effects. If you've ever wondered whether your changing health status might be connected to your psychiatric medication, this conversation will equip you with knowledge to push back against medical gaslighting and take control of your health journey.
Are you tired of being gaslit and want to DEEP THROAT some more truth? We want to hear from you! Message us your gaslit stories at thegaslittruthpodcast@gmail.com
While you are at it, Follow us on Instagram, Facebook and YouTube @thegaslittruthpodcast.
Be sure to Hit that subscribe button and get alerts for more episodes!
Thanks for listening!
Follow Us individually at
Dr. Teralyn:
Therapist Jenn:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Have you been gaslit into believing your health
status is not related to yourantidepressants?
We are your whistleblowingshrinks, dr Tara Lynn and
therapist Jen, and this is theGaslit Truth Podcast.
We are heading into this strongand a little bit differently
today, because we have a phonerecording and you can also see
(00:22):
the video on YouTube.
If you go there you can't seethe video of the people, but we
have it kind of documented invideo of an actual conversation
with Jen's medical doctor'soffice, and this is how she was
gaslit Roll tape.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Could this be a product of me going through a
medication taper?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Medication taper as far as like what?
Speaker 3 (00:51):
medication.
I'm tapering off of Lexapro andhave been for 17 months now 16
months.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
No, usually no.
The Lexapro won won't increaseyour sugar.
How come Usually you don't seethat with medication?
Usually it's the way yourpancreas is working Right.
(01:24):
You're on a very low dose ofdeluxoprol right uh, I I'm at
4.7 milligrams.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
I started at 20.
However, the last handful ofmonths of this tape and the most
taxing on anxiety for me.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
So at this point I am diagnosed with hyperglycemia
and I am told by the nurse thatI need to start looking at some
pre-diabetes protocol.
So there's a little audio atthe end that I did not put in
there and that's what you guys,if you're watching on YouTube,
you will see.
Right at the very end is astatement made to me about
pre-diabetes protocol.
Sharing this for those of youthat are on YouTube and watching
(02:23):
this if you're there, Becausehopefully it'll our bandwidth is
a little weird.
It's on any of my.
Yeah, it is, it is.
Our bandwidth is a little bitweird.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Whenever we try to do this whole video again.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
I know.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
I know it's stupid.
It's weird, right, whenever wetry to bring in the legit videos
, it all goes crazy.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
It's fucked up.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
It was a good video I know it's a good video, so if
you want to see the whole thingtoo and re-hear it again, right,
you can go on on my socials, um, either on my tiktok or on my
instagram, um which we've gotthose linked here in our show
notes, um, and you can watchthis again, because this is a
actual, real call that happenedbetween me and the doctor's
office about a few weeks ago.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
So I have to say you're welcome for telling you
to record it, because who knewit was going to be content for?
Speaker 4 (03:13):
later.
All right, so this I do have togive the credit to Terry for
this because she goes you shouldjust record this phone call.
So the long story short of thisis I was having some routine
work that is going to be done atthe doctor's office and part of
that routine work was to I hadmy thyroid tested and they
wanted to test my blood glucoselevels and all that good jazz,
(03:35):
and I said, well, yeah, it'sbeen.
It's been a little bit sinceI've done that, so, so I should
right.
And the results of that cameback with a very, very high
blood glucose level.
I did a fasting glucose and Iwas at 147, which is extremely
high.
So that led to a phone call metelling to go do more testing,
(03:56):
starting pre-diabetes protocols,blah, blah, blah and multiple
dismissals, which is what we'regoing to talk about today.
That happened in this phone calland in the eyes of Western
medicine.
I have diabetes.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
It's your pancreas, though it's suddenly your
pancreas.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
What you and I are going to talk about today is
we're going to bring someresearch in about SSRIs and
we're going to talk a little bitabout SSRIs and we're going to
talk a little bit about somestuff that's out there that
actually does draw correlationsbetween SSRI use and different
types of metabolic syndromes,including diabetes.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
So it's funny because you know we'll get the people
that come on and be likecorrelation does not equal
causation.
And I'm like you know, and thenI had somebody do this on my
TikTok just the other dayCorrelation doesn't equal
causation.
But we already know thatdepression causes people to have
lower health statuses.
And I said, did you just try todebunk my correlation research
(05:03):
with more correlation research,like you?
Just whatever.
I'm sick of it.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
We get so far down that rabbit hole of research,
right?
Yes, which is why you and I Idon't know I encourage any of my
therapy clients, any of mydeprescribing consultant,
coaching clients.
I tell them I'm like researchis there and it's great, you
know, kind of like when Raquelwas on the show and she said the
same thing.
You know, in some ways researchcan lie because we are, we're
really focusing so much,assuming that there are no
(05:37):
confounding variables in any ofthis, right, but we bring it in
for awareness, for people.
But it doesn't mean you have toput all your eggs in the
fucking research basket, right?
Because if you put every singleegg, you're going to be like if
we were in the medical, westernmedical research basket right
now.
Jen needs insulin.
Let's rock.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Here we go, like it's her pancreas.
You're, you're, you're done.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Right.
So so what?
What we want to, what we wantto talk about here is there are
so many of us out there thathave taken SSRIs, taken
antidepressants, and have hadmedical issues that have come as
could possibly be causing someof these medical issues is
dismissed, and it's dismissed soquickly.
(06:31):
So, as you guys heard in thisphone call first of all, now,
mind you, I've been titratingfor like 17 months now.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
That provider's office they know me very well,
do they?
Though it sounded like theykind of didn't.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
No, this is the same nurse I had to lie to to try to
get a liquid everybody.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Oh, that's right.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Because, I had to lie to her multiple times and tell
her I couldn't swallow pillsbecause they didn't want to give
me a liquid.
So I tried the whole lyingroute and she called me on it
because she put it in my chartthat patient lied right.
So this woman knows me.
I call every couple months.
I am the most tenacious fuckerwhen it comes to them knowing
what's going on with mytitration because they hold the
(07:13):
golden ticket to my prescription.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
And I do, and I also feel like it's part of you kind
of educating them like watchingyou go through this right.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
This is the doctor's office that I walked into with
this book and repeatedly threwthe deprescribing guidelines in
front of them and said you guysneed to look at this.
Yes, you need to look at it.
It was the day I felt like Iwas fighting for my life to get
this liquid prescription.
So they've been with me on thisfor a long time a year and a
(07:42):
half and so the first hugedismissal is well, what are you
titrating off of Right Now?
I had just been there likethree days prior and met them.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Well, I wrote down a couple of different things.
The first one is well, no, itcan't be that it's your pancreas
.
Yeah, it can't be Well then Iwould say why does suddenly your
pancreas have problems, likewhy, why did that happen?
You know so.
The second thing is and we hearthis a lot is well, you're on
(08:14):
such a low dose, like dismissalof the dose is irrelevant right.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
It's irrelevant.
So not only do they not know,I'm not titrating, okay, which
is crazy to me, right?
Yes, yes, it's irrelevant.
So not only do they not know,I'm not titrating, okay, which
is crazy to me, right?
The second part of it is thatthere's no education that they
have, or awareness that theyhave on the fact that an SSRI
long-term use okay, 25 years,almost right can actually lead
(08:44):
to these issues with metabolicfunctioning.
And, as you can hear in thiscall, the nurse says no, no, no,
that can't be, so then I say,well, how come tell me, like,
give me something and they can'tright.
So for all you know, anybodylistening that's a provider.
(09:06):
For the fuck's sake.
Like, humble yourself a littlebit.
If you don't know.
An answer say I don't know.
Maybe we got to look more atthis, maybe there is something
to this correlation you speak of, like there's a lot of that.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
I do want to bring that in a little bit too.
Why is it that we have toprovide an answer, or think that
we have to provide an answer?
Could this possibly be?
She would have been better offsaying I'm not sure.
Actually, let me look into that, you know, let me see Right,
instead of just saying, no, it'syour pancreas.
You know like, oh, suddenly Ihave a diseased pancreas.
(09:42):
That's interesting why, I don'tknow.
It just happens sometimes, youknow.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
Whatever you know, and the part of the call that
you guys didn't get either rightat the end was how she went on
to tell me that there are nocorrelations between high
anxiety and blood glucose levels.
Oh well, that's there too.
And so that too is quite onevery, very dismissive.
(10:10):
Because, as we know, because Istarted to tell her at the very
end about the heightened anxietythat I've had during this taper
the last three months has beenreally, really, probably I would
say that, the toughest for mein terms of symptoms I'm
experiencing.
And we know anxiety impactsblood glucose levels.
It releases your hormones, itreleases cortisol, it releases
(10:31):
adrenaline right, and thoseincrease glucose production and
also can reduce how sensitiveyou are to insulin.
Like this is something that Ijust want to.
I can't say it's commonknowledge but I'm not really
quite sure what the words are.
Because to tell, me.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
That's not.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
Knowledge is a good word To tell me that's not real
is almost like malpractice Idon't even know how to say it.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
I do because I want to bring this in as part of,
like somebody's treatment plan.
If suddenly because this wouldbe like a type two diabetes
situation Correct, one of thethings that they would recommend
is nutrition and then stressreduction.
So clearly, clearly, they know.
Why would you even say stressreduction if it didn't matter,
you know, if that stress andcortisol was irrelevant to the
(11:18):
conversation, why would you evenhave it as part of a treatment
plan?
And it's part of everybody'streatment plan for every disease
state.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
It really is.
It really is so.
that, I think, was the cherry ontop of all of the different
dismissals that are occurring.
If you're not watching onYouTube and you're just
listening to us.
The deliverable I put out onthis was naive dismissals, is
what I called it, and I'mwriting out all the naive
dismissals that are occurringalong the way, right, like?
What medication are you eventaking?
No, that doesn't affect bloodsugar.
Oh, it's got to be a pancreasthing.
(11:55):
The pancreas is, you know.
Like all of these, there's noevidence to back the statement
that she says you know.
And so these are the thingsthat happen to us as patients.
Now then, of course, I put thisout on my socials, and I'm so
like I can feel myself gettingextremely anxious talking about
this because it pisses me off somuch.
(12:16):
Right, like I'm physiologicallyreacting right now.
My heart is just racing talkingabout this.
So background information foreverybody, just so that those of
you who are, like, really stuckon the Western model can maybe
get curious a little more.
I have absolutely no familyhistory of diabetes for any
first degree relatives.
I have one relative that doeshave it and is 100% lifestyle
(12:37):
and they are the epitome of thestandard American diet and it's
pretty dangerous shit now.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
So I have none of that.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
I also live the pretty much epitome of what is a
damn healthy lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
I don't know what other nutritional changes you
could make.
I mean, yes, I mean and I'vedone that right.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
This has been a two-year process for me.
First, I started by getting myadrenals in check, because I was
in adrenal failure two yearsago.
I started there and went allthe way through everything from
nutrition to meditation to sleepand everything in between, so
I'm pretty sure I'm the posterchild for dialing in a lifestyle
(13:20):
.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Well, I mean so when Jen, when she called me and we
were talking about this early on, it got me thinking a little
bit about me, because when I wastaking the antidepressants, I
remember being put on metforminat one point and for
pre-diabetic stuff.
(13:43):
Yes, but you know, I've alwaysstruggled with weight and all
these things.
So for me I was like, well, Imean, maybe it makes sense, blah
, blah, blah.
You know, um, all met, form anddid was make me shit my pants,
which is what all these medsmake me do, but anyway, it
didn't help anything else.
Uh, but as she was talking Iwas like, anyway, didn't help
(14:03):
anything else.
But as she was talking I waslike, holy shit, that actually
happened and I haven't.
Since being off of that manyyears ago, I haven't had any
blood sugar problems at all.
And I look like between the twoof us, like if you were to just
like, you know, look at, Iwould be the one with type two
diabetes issues here.
The diabetes.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
It's got to be the diabetes.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
I got the diabetes, but I don't.
I don't have blood sugar issues, I don't have.
The only time I did was when Iwas on an SSRI and put on
metformin and I didn't evenconnect those dots at all until
she said that and I was likeholy shit balls, like that
actually happened.
And I'm like wow, cause I knowI had.
(14:43):
I also had metabolic problemswhen I was on it too.
You know weight gain and thingslike that and you know,
metabolically this stuff canimpact you.
But it's so funny because whenyou really start talking to
people and they tell you alltheir health conditions they
have and and all the psych medsthey're on, and my, my, now my
question always is did thosethings happen after you were put
(15:07):
on the psychiatric medication?
And the majority of times it'syes.
And especially when I seeyounger people now suddenly
having high cholesterol or aheart murmur or all these
hypertension, like all this highcholesterol, you know they're
(15:28):
young, they're healthy, they'reon antidepressants or
psychiatric medication and nowtheir health status is bad.
And so the argument is well,you know, health status can be
bad if you have mental healthissues.
You know, without medicationI'm like I mean true, because
people aren't taking care ofthemselves.
There's a lot of lifestylefactors involved and things like
(15:49):
that, but we cannot dismissthat they didn't have those
before they were put on theantidepressants.
So yeah, and we're not talkingabout just tricyclic
antidepressants here, we'retalking about your standard fair
SSRIs, snris, you know.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
So we're going to talk a little bit about this
research that Jen sent me.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
This is interesting stuff too, and I think we should
probably do a whole episode onthe heart, because that scares
the shit out of me with heart.
But these are reallyconversations in the realm of
you can't get something fornothing, right?
Like what you put in your body.
There is an input and an output, and this is part of it right
(16:31):
here.
So you know, and this is justone piece of literature, right?
So take this piece ofliterature and get you know,
curious about this, go to thecitations and look at who they
use to cite in here, and thatwill lead you down a rabbit hole
of darkness.
So be careful.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
It does.
And then you can't stop readingand researching.
And I tell you in the lastmonth if you're a client of mine
.
This is something that I'mconstantly funneling research to
my clients on, because what'svery interesting is a good chunk
of them have got some form of ametabolic syndrome that they
are going through and that theyare medicated for, and we've
(17:11):
been talking about thesecorrelations for a while, but
all of a sudden, now I'm in itmore, so I'm pouring my time and
hours into research, reading,and then I'm funneling this out
to everybody.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
I just want to mention this.
What I don't understand is thepeople like when I present a
piece of literature, I'm notpresenting it as the absolute
truth.
There's really nothing outthere that is the absolute truth
.
Yes, you are Terry, otherwisewe wouldn't have more research
opportunities If someone's likeone study with 99 middle-aged
women in that we're going totalk about.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
This is the be all end all people.
This is it.
This is it.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
This is it.
Yes, but if you're reading theresearch articles that we bring
up, don't try to poke holes inall of it, because you don't
want it to be true, right?
I feel like that's where peoplecome from.
They're like well, I'm going tofind all the bad parts about
this research.
You can do that for anyresearch article.
(18:06):
There's plenty of not goodresearch.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
You can always find what you're looking for.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
You can always find what you're looking for.
So when you do this, do it withan open mind of curiosity
instead of I don't want it to betrue and whatever.
Be curious about it.
So that's all I'm going to sayabout research right now.
So, cause we know there's athere's a lot of shit research
out there, but there's a lot ofnot shit research, and it's
funny.
One, one last thing.
Somebody said well, thisresearch that I presented called
(18:32):
for more research.
That means this research wasn'tgood.
I'm like every research articlecalls for different research on
the topic.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
As it should, because they're where the gaps are
Correct.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
And then research that gap.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
That's exactly it yeah, so that's a really good
comment.
Whoever that was, thank you.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
You really made Harry smarter.
It was so smart.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Yeah.
So let's look at this article.
It's called the RelationshipBetween SSRIs and Metabolic
Syndrome Abnormalities inPatients with Generalized
Anxiety Disorder, a ProspectiveStudy.
This is in the National Libraryof Medicine, published by
PubMed Central.
So, anyway, what's the date?
Oh, the date is 2013.
(19:17):
So this is, like you know,freaking 12 years ago.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
This is 12 years ago, but my nurse, my nurse, knows
nothing.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
She knows nothing.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
This isn't a thing, my goodness.
So this is kind of old I foundthis, though, and I thought that
that was very relevant, eventhough it's not brand new.
This is the start of themcalling for more research, even
in this article, which is prettycool because it's and, of
course, we have stuff that isnewer, and you can find stuff
that's newer but what'sinteresting to me is this idea
(19:47):
that this really trulyspecifically the relationship
between SSRIs and metabolicsyndrome, you know, over 10
years ago it was already beingstudied right, so what?
Speaker 1 (19:57):
do we got here?
Well, I would guess because theamount of people that have been
prescribed this is going up andup and up that you're going to
see more diabetes.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
The first line of this article is SSRIs are some
of the most widely prescribedmedications in the world.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
So why they?
Speaker 4 (20:14):
pick.
This makes sense because theyare.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
It makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
They still are.
They still are.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
The next line, though , got to take beef with.
In addition to theireffectiveness, SSRIs were
reported to be associated withthe side effects of weight gain,
sexual dysfunction, druginteractions I can't even say
this word.
Extrapyramid middle you knowwhat that is?
(20:42):
I had to look that up.
Do you know what that means?
It's a group of movementdisorders.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
It's like part of dyskinesia.
I was imagining a pyramid ofsymptoms like Maslow's hierarchy
of needs.
No, that's what this prettygirl thought it was.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
It says right here, these symptoms can include
akathisia, dystonia, parkinson,tremors, involuntary movements.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
Parkinson like tremors, involuntary movements,
and I'm like I didn't know whatit was.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
So that's what we've been talking about.
There's a word for it?
Yes, there is, but nobody knowsit, and it was labeled guys.
But anyway and discontinuationsymptoms.
However, they don't know.
The metabolic parameters arepoorly understood.
So, um, these guys I I thinkwell, jen, you looked in this a
little bit more deeply than Idid Um, but there was 97 women
(21:29):
aged 20 to 41, um, without anymetabolic or psychiatric
comorbidity, so it was justanxiety were included in the
study.
So the the meds that theylooked at were, um, oh gosh, I I
wrote all of them down.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
Proxetine, zoloft, which is your, your Sertraline.
Celexa, cetalopram, uh, theLexapro, which is what I'm on,
which is Cetalopram, and thenProzac, which is your
Phylexatine.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Well, done, well, done, yes, anyway, so they.
They looked at these women whoare taking these medications,
which, yeah, they found somevery interesting.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
Just a little bit more holistic, probably not
nearly as much as I am, butsomeone who at least is a little
bit more open to things.
So I did call back and tellthem that I fired them, but I do
have to go in there for my pap,so when I do I'm just going to
slide a little more research tothem so they can have a better
understanding of the fact thatthis has been looked at for the
last 15 years already.
But what this study did and wecan read in general, so what
(22:56):
they found is in the group thatwas taking Paxil, that
paroxetine group, there was apretty significant increase in
their weight, their BMI, waistcircumference, fasting, glucose,
total cholesterol, ldltrigcerides after about four,
three to four months oftreatment, so they say 16 weeks.
So they took these women whohad no other comorbidities and
(23:18):
they were just bill of healthand you have anxiety disorder
and they put them on this SSRIfor 16 weeks and here's what
happened there were significantincreases in triglycerides in
the citalopram group okay, whichis the Celexa group.
Guyscerides in the citalopramgroup okay, which is the Celexa
group.
Guys in the e-citalopram group,which is the Lexapro In the
sertraline group the totalcholesterol level increased
(23:40):
after treatment.
So your cholesterol is going up.
For sertraline and thenflexatine there was significant
reductions in weight,cholesterol and triglycerides.
So in the flexatine group therewere actually some reductions
that happened with weight,cholesterol and triglycerides.
So in the fluxatine group therewere actually some reductions
that happened with weight,cholesterol and triglycerides.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Correlation doesn't equal causation.
I'm just kidding.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
I know.
But what this study isconcluding and it's showing is
that they say they're one of thefirst studies that really
prospectively describedmetabolic syndrome and looked at
what that is and theabnormalities in patients that
take SSRIs.
But in general, all of thoseSSRIs, with the exception of one
, were leading to problems withBMI, weight, blood glucose,
(24:20):
triglycerides.
They actually break down someof the cholesterol things in
here too, which very interesting, my LDL cholesterol is very
high.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
It's usually the LDL, I believe, is what they is.
That's your bad cholesterol.
Mine is very high guys.
So just so, youl, I believe, iswhat they is.
That's your bad cholesterol,mine is very high guys.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
So, just so you know, when I looked at this, one of
the things that I panicked overa little bit besides the fact
that they're telling me, hey, mydiabetes I was like, nah, fuck
you guys, you know what you'retalking about but I was worried
about the cholesterol parks.
My LDL is quite high.
I went back and I looked at mycholesterol for the last six
years, because I've got all ofit and it's it.
Um, it has been high, but notquite this high, um, so that's
(24:55):
interesting to me, just becauseI need to pay attention to that,
even though, like, my HDL is isin a good spot overall.
My cholesterol was high, though, and that's with a lot of
really good lifestyle shit goingon.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Um, and I've never had that and with the, with
tapering down, correct Tapering.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
So, that's the part.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
So here's the change, guys, for me is lifestyle went
into great.
I kicked that into gear likeepitome of eat, sleep, move,
meditate, got that dialed in,but a year and a half ago what
did change is I started totitrate off of this Lexapro.
I have all of those levels fromyears prior Okay, and they were
pretty stable, which tells methat, as I am removing this
(25:38):
medication from my body andimproving all of my lifestyle
stuff, there's something that'sgoing on within my body that is
now kicking out fucked up bloodglucose levels.
Now, to be fair, that couldhave just been an error on a
test, because of course, whatdid I do?
I did what Terry told me to do,because sometimes she's so smart
, and I went and started takingmy blood sugars every fucking
(25:59):
day, multiple times a day.
I'm a week into doing this I'venever had a high blood sugar
guys, never over 101.
That was my highest, so I justhave to tell everyone it could
be, but you know it's weird.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
It could be a fluke, but it's listed diagnostically
in your file now.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
I now have a diagnosis of hyperglycemia.
I was diagnosed already, guysoff of one fasting blood glucose
test, Um, so that's anotherthing that I think bothers me
too in this process is those ofus that are taking
antidepressants and I know a lotof people listening probably
are going oh my God, I've hadhigh blood sugars, I've had
(26:36):
issues with my heart rate.
Yeah, you probably have anddidn't have any pre-existing
conditions, right, and that'ssomething that I think you got
to be curious about becausethere are errors in testing.
That happens.
Terry and I went down the darkblack hole of what happens with
blood blood fasting glucoses ifyou fast for too long, and
(26:57):
there's a bunch of research outthere about like, if you do a 10
or a 12 hour fast which I didright.
I was like yeah, I stoppedeating at seven 30 and drinking
at night and went and had myblood sugar test at six 30 in
the morning.
That's funny.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
I got to say that's interesting.
That's interesting because Idid have a blood one blood sugar
elevation and I didn't eat.
It was at.
I had to go in at like oneo'clock in the afternoon and I
and I fasted all night and allmorning and cause, what am I
going to eat at you know 3am?
I'm going to you know whatever?
And it was a little elevated.
(27:30):
That's fascinating, that'sfunny.
I just thought about that.
I'm scrolling right now.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
I know, I know so.
So this, this we have two.
We had two articles that Terryand I had sent back and forth
between each other.
This was one of them and ittalked so basically it talked a
lot about that.
They are finding that thereneeded to be more research
between these links rightBetween SSRIs and then these
metabolic syndromes that areoccurring for people along the
way.
So my question would be is itoccurring after the start?
(27:58):
These guys had 16 weeks of thismed in their body.
Okay, what happens after 25years?
And what happens more so whenyou start to change the levels
and you start to continuouslybring that level down?
Speaker 1 (28:18):
This makes me curious , because do you remember the
episode we did on alcohol?
And when you are bringing thelevel down, you're more likely
to have some reaction withalcohol to make you be more
impaired more drunk, yeah,exactly when you're bringing
your levels down.
So I'm like this is, this isreally, this is if anyone's
listening and they'reresearching, this is the
research right here what happenswhen you are tapering your
(28:41):
medication Like, does that causea cascade of metabolic problems
?
Speaker 2 (28:46):
And what are they?
And what?
Speaker 1 (28:47):
should we be watching for and what should we not be
dismissing?
Right, then, that doesn't meanthat Jen needs to run out and
start insulin and all thesethings.
It's like to me, it's like thiswill go away, because that was
part of it.
Part of that study was, whenthey stopped, guess what?
It came back to baseline.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
Yep, everything moved itself back to baseline, so
that's one of the ones we wanted.
It's a testament to your body.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
By the way I know, it's a testament to the healing
properties of your body, yep,and it does what it needs to do.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Now don't get me wrong.
I mean there was like I spent aweek really pissed off and
clearly just blasted this wholephone call.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
I'm more pissed that they put it as a diagnosis for
you based on one lab test.
So we're going to try to getthat.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
We're trying to get that fucker retracted, but
here's the deal, which it doescause issues, right, that's a
pre-diabetes diagnosis and solike if you're looking at life
insurance life insurance yeah,like I.
That's the first thing Ithought of, because we may or
may not be looking at that rightnow, and that's a you from
either receiving it or how yourrates are going to look.
Your rates.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah for sure, glucose level.
So right, this is this secondstudy, though this is this was.
I was, I was panicking oh wait,no, is this the one that I sent
you, the very and from verywell health.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
Uh, yeah, you yeah, Okay.
This is a huge study.
You sent me this right away.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
I want to tell you this is from 2020.
So this is now newer, right,and it was published in Diabetes
Care Journal, which is cool.
It's interesting to me whenbecause the other one that I was
talking about was published ina cardiac journal.
It's interesting to me whenother areas publish research
(30:33):
about medication for psychiatricproblems, and I think that's
cool, but it's also gets reallydismissed or just not checked in
on, you know, anyway.
So the title is called theAssociation Between the Use of
Antidepressants and the Risk ofType 2 Diabetes large
population-based cohort study,and this was done in Japan in
(30:53):
2020.
This study had 90,000participants, which is giant.
I mean, it's a huge study.
It's a lot of people to look at.
They found that antidepressantsincreased the risk of type 2
diabetes.
That's it.
This risk increased with longerterm use of antidepressants and
higher dosage, and so theyfound that, also with the heart
(31:16):
studies, the longer you use it,the higher the dose, the worse
off it is for you, which makessense, right?
I mean it makes a lot of sense.
The study also found thatglucose tolerance improved when
the antidepressants werediscontinued or reduced Back to
baseline, right?
So what is your baseline?
Is the question.
Like we never know whatpeople's baselines are because
(31:37):
we keep adding in more shit.
You know that doesn't allowthem ever to get back to
baseline, you know.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
Right, right, and it's also and some of that also
right.
This is where some of it can bearbitrary.
Right, because if you'resomebody who's taking an
antidepressant, like myself, for24 years almost, or whatever
the hell it is I don't even knowthat's math, I don't do well
with that but your baseline isalmost arbitrary at that point.
I'm not going to go back andlook at a baseline from when I
(32:04):
was 17 years old.
My body has changed so muchsince then.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
It has not since you were 17.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
I had those two tiny humans who took every fucking
lick of everything out of me.
So when you think about this, Iwill have and I actually at one
point had my doctor talkingwith me a little bit about
baseline stuff, and I kind ofjust chuckle because I think
that part is arbitrary too.
Now, if you could say, let's,we've tested this every single
(32:33):
year for the last how many yearswe could kind of get a baseline
.
But can we?
because I don't know whatoriginally it should have been
in the first place, cause thishas always been in my body and
what we know as well is thatit's always impacting the
metabolic functioning in somesorts, because the body is
constantly interacting andtrying to just reach these
levels of homeostasis.
(32:53):
Right now my body can't.
It's trying every day to get tohomeostasis so it's changing
every time I do a dose reductionand then all that time in
between.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
They just happened to hit you on a day that your body
was reacting metabolically tothis.
I do want to bring something inhere real quick too, because it
does say you know, there aresome studies have found that
SSRIs help control blood sugarin the short term.
Yep, In the short term.
That's important, you know tounderstand, and we can probably
(33:43):
go back to that whole stressconversation that we had before
that in the early stages of usepeople do often tend to feel
better, right, Like in the veryshort term, early stages.
And that's where the that'swhere then the studies are cut
off and you're like well, thathasn't happened to me.
And they say that it helpscontrol blood sugar.
That's great, but that doesn'tmean for somebody else that it's
not the opposite.
You know that both can be trueat the same time and it's really
all person dependent.
It is, yeah, it's really allphysiology dependent of the
(34:07):
person, Right, and I would arguethat it probably has less to do
with your lifestyle than itdoes with the medication, Right,
Right, yeah, Because in mybrain.
Speaker 4 (34:19):
That's where I start as a patient.
Right, we start to panic alittle bit, but at first, and
I'm thinking, okay, mycholesterol is really high and
my LDL is super high.
Right, my blood glucose isthrough the roof.
And the first thing in my mind,as like a holistic practitioner
, I'm sitting here going okay,what have I done in the world of
(34:41):
nutrition lately?
That's different.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Like say in the last like three to six months.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
what have I done?
And I'm thinking about all ofthese different things, and when
I pause long enough, I'm likewait a minute.
No, like none of that adds up,because that stuff is really
dialed in and I take really goodcare of myself in that way.
I had to when I startedtitrating off of Lexapro.
I had to.
It's like the only way for mebecause otherwise the titration
(35:05):
would be horrific.
So you start going there atfirst as a patient, but then you
get yourself to a space of likewhat I'm just going to say is
reality and go this doesn't addup.
It doesn't make sense and ofcourse, they want to do more
blood work and they want me todo an A1C and they want me to
start looking like they calledit pre-diabetes protocol is what
she had said to me and startlooking at that.
(35:25):
And I'm just sitting here going, yeah, I'm not buying it.
Now, the reality, though, thatsome of us are faced with, that
we also can't dismiss, is that Icould have abnormalities in a
metabolic way because of thismedication, because that is also
a reality that you can developdiabetes.
(35:47):
You can have issues withinsulin resistance, with heart
rate, blood pressure, pancreasand liver functioning
specifically liver, that'sanother one.
Don't go down that dark hole,guys, and start researching
liver and SSRIs.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Okay Well they just did a whole big thing on sudden
cardiac death with all theantidepressants.
But yeah, this is reality.
Speaker 4 (36:08):
That's the shitty part of it too, so I can't
dismiss that either, and I haveto pay attention to my blood
sugars, and I have to startmonitoring this because it could
be a reality for me too.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Right, yeah, it's just an interesting conversation
and one that we want you toknow.
Okay, so let's say you're on anSSRI, or an SNRI for a long
time and suddenly your bloodsugars go haywire and you ask
the nurse, just like Jen did, isthere a relationship between
(36:40):
this and that?
And they go oh no, it's justyour pancreas, Right?
I want you to not take that asthe final answer, Right, Like
it's not the final answer.
And so then the question iswell then, why is my pancreas
suddenly responding this way?
Like what?
What is it, you know?
So I guess this whole thing isjust like your health status is
(37:01):
not stagnant and you can becurious about whatever you want
in your own health status, aslong as you want to be right.
If you want to just go down theregular, you know a Western
medicine route and start takingmore pills for this and pills,
then you can.
You have the right to do thattoo, you know.
But we would prefer that youget a little bit curious about
(37:23):
this, obviously, especially whenI see younger people and when I
say younger, I'm like 40 andunder, you know, in their
forties and under like this isnot normal for you guys to be
struggling in these ways withyour health you know, and I'm
not saying that it should benormal for a 60 year old either,
(37:44):
but it's more typical, I guess,would be the thing.
But but then I would argue thatmaybe it shouldn't be typical
for that group either, but thatthey're so medicated, but anyway
.
So the younger people that arehaving these serious problems
with their organs is alarming tome and the dismissal that we
(38:05):
have.
Well, would you rather haveyour depression or type 2
diabetes?
Well, sorry, karen, I'd ratherhave neither, I'd rather not do
either.
Why do we do this stupidtrade-off?
Would you rather have now type2 diabetes and have your anxiety
under control, jen?
(38:25):
Oh wait, at that point it wasyour depression.
Would you rather havedepression under control or type
2 diabetes?
Speaker 4 (38:32):
Yeah, it's definitely depression.
I developed anxiety.
I never had that.
I do now.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Yeah, I'm like she never had.
That's not why she was on it,but now she's an anxiety patient
, which is just anotherconversation too.
You start with one thing, youend up with something else.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
I was a grieving depressive patient and I
developed anxiety along the way.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Yeah, I'm over it.
Speaker 4 (38:57):
I'm so, oh my God, I'm so fucking over it.
But this is the stuff to getcurious about, guys.
So that is what we wanted topresent to you today, and don't
be gaslit by this, right.
Don't be gaslit by the ideathat all of a sudden, you've got
some medical things that aregoing on in your life Okay, even
if you already have somepreexisting things, and they're
(39:19):
getting worse, and it's notmaking sense because, overall
your lifestyle, you are dialingthose things in right.
So, if that's the case,continue to get curious about it
, challenge your providers inthis, pull up research and show
them Again.
Research isn't the thing, but itcan be a thing that you use as
a tool, but at the end of theday, you can do things on your
(39:41):
own to monitor these things.
I went and started testing myblood glucose, got my ass on
Amazon, spent 40 bucks, got aglucose meter and a bunch of
strips and multiple times a dayand repeat it at the same times.
I'm measuring it, writing itall down right, I've got a bunch
of collateral that's showing methat you're probably okay.
I don't need to move forwardwith pre-diabetes protocol, but
(40:02):
I do need to pay attention to it, because the reality is, some
of these metabolic things canoccur, and they can occur at the
cost of taking long-term SSRIs.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Or possibly tapering, or tapering.
Yeah, yeah, that's aninteresting one, that's the call
for research.
Speaker 4 (40:19):
There are research nerds.
Let's go.
Where are they?
Speaker 1 (40:24):
I'd like to know when are you guys, I mean we've got
it.
Speaker 4 (40:26):
Terry's got it in her , but I don't.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Yeah, I don't even know that I do Not don't.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Yeah, I don't even know that I do Not anymore, all
right?
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Well, that's another episode of the Gaslit Truth
Podcast.
Thanks for hanging out with usand please leave us all the five
stars, only five stars, andmake sure you like, comment,
share and you can send us yourgaslit truth at
thegaslittruthpodcast atgmailcom.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
Thanks guys.
Have you been gaslit into believing your health
status is not related to yourantidepressants?
We are your whistleblowingshrinks, dr Tara Lynn and
therapist Jen, and this is theGaslit Truth Podcast.
We are heading into this strongand a little bit differently
today, because we have a phonerecording and you can also see
(00:22):
the video on YouTube.
If you go there you can't seethe video of the people, but we
have it kind of documented invideo of an actual conversation
with Jen's medical doctor'soffice, and this is how she was
gaslit Roll tape.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Could this be a product of me going through a
medication taper?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Medication taper as far as like what?
Speaker 3 (00:51):
medication.
I'm tapering off of Lexapro andhave been for 17 months now 16
months.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
No, usually no.
The Lexapro won won't increaseyour sugar.
How come Usually you don't seethat with medication?
Usually it's the way yourpancreas is working Right.
(01:24):
You're on a very low dose ofdeluxoprol right uh, I I'm at
4.7 milligrams.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
I started at 20.
However, the last handful ofmonths of this tape and the most
taxing on anxiety for me.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
So at this point I am diagnosed with hyperglycemia
and I am told by the nurse thatI need to start looking at some
pre-diabetes protocol.
So there's a little audio atthe end that I did not put in
there and that's what you guys,if you're watching on YouTube,
you will see.
Right at the very end is astatement made to me about
pre-diabetes protocol.
Sharing this for those of youthat are on YouTube and watching
(02:23):
this if you're there, Becausehopefully it'll our bandwidth is
a little weird.
It's on any of my.
Yeah, it is, it is.
Our bandwidth is a little bitweird.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Whenever we try to do this whole video again.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
I know.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
I know it's stupid.
It's weird, right, whenever wetry to bring in the legit videos
, it all goes crazy.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
It's fucked up.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
It was a good video I know it's a good video, so if
you want to see the whole thingtoo and re-hear it again, right,
you can go on on my socials, um, either on my tiktok or on my
instagram, um which we've gotthose linked here in our show
notes, um, and you can watchthis again, because this is a
actual, real call that happenedbetween me and the doctor's
office about a few weeks ago.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
So I have to say you're welcome for telling you
to record it, because who knewit was going to be content for?
Speaker 4 (03:13):
later.
All right, so this I do have togive the credit to Terry for
this because she goes you shouldjust record this phone call.
So the long story short of thisis I was having some routine
work that is going to be done atthe doctor's office and part of
that routine work was to I hadmy thyroid tested and they
wanted to test my blood glucoselevels and all that good jazz,
(03:35):
and I said, well, yeah, it'sbeen.
It's been a little bit sinceI've done that, so, so I should
right.
And the results of that cameback with a very, very high
blood glucose level.
I did a fasting glucose and Iwas at 147, which is extremely
high.
So that led to a phone call metelling to go do more testing,
(03:56):
starting pre-diabetes protocols,blah, blah, blah and multiple
dismissals, which is what we'regoing to talk about today.
That happened in this phone calland in the eyes of Western
medicine.
I have diabetes.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
It's your pancreas, though it's suddenly your
pancreas.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
What you and I are going to talk about today is
we're going to bring someresearch in about SSRIs and
we're going to talk a little bitabout SSRIs and we're going to
talk a little bit about somestuff that's out there that
actually does draw correlationsbetween SSRI use and different
types of metabolic syndromes,including diabetes.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
So it's funny because you know we'll get the people
that come on and be likecorrelation does not equal
causation.
And I'm like you know, and thenI had somebody do this on my
TikTok just the other dayCorrelation doesn't equal
causation.
But we already know thatdepression causes people to have
lower health statuses.
And I said, did you just try todebunk my correlation research
(05:03):
with more correlation research,like you?
Just whatever.
I'm sick of it.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
We get so far down that rabbit hole of research,
right?
Yes, which is why you and I Idon't know I encourage any of my
therapy clients, any of mydeprescribing consultant,
coaching clients.
I tell them I'm like researchis there and it's great, you
know, kind of like when Raquelwas on the show and she said the
same thing.
You know, in some ways researchcan lie because we are, we're
really focusing so much,assuming that there are no
(05:37):
confounding variables in any ofthis, right, but we bring it in
for awareness, for people.
But it doesn't mean you have toput all your eggs in the
fucking research basket, right?
Because if you put every singleegg, you're going to be like if
we were in the medical, westernmedical research basket right
now.
Jen needs insulin.
Let's rock.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Here we go, like it's her pancreas.
You're, you're, you're done.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Right.
So so what?
What we want to, what we wantto talk about here is there are
so many of us out there thathave taken SSRIs, taken
antidepressants, and have hadmedical issues that have come as
could possibly be causing someof these medical issues is
dismissed, and it's dismissed soquickly.
(06:31):
So, as you guys heard in thisphone call first of all, now,
mind you, I've been titratingfor like 17 months now.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
That provider's office they know me very well,
do they?
Though it sounded like theykind of didn't.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
No, this is the same nurse I had to lie to to try to
get a liquid everybody.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Oh, that's right.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Because, I had to lie to her multiple times and tell
her I couldn't swallow pillsbecause they didn't want to give
me a liquid.
So I tried the whole lyingroute and she called me on it
because she put it in my chartthat patient lied right.
So this woman knows me.
I call every couple months.
I am the most tenacious fuckerwhen it comes to them knowing
what's going on with mytitration because they hold the
(07:13):
golden ticket to my prescription.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
And I do, and I also feel like it's part of you kind
of educating them like watchingyou go through this right.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
This is the doctor's office that I walked into with
this book and repeatedly threwthe deprescribing guidelines in
front of them and said you guysneed to look at this.
Yes, you need to look at it.
It was the day I felt like Iwas fighting for my life to get
this liquid prescription.
So they've been with me on thisfor a long time a year and a
(07:42):
half and so the first hugedismissal is well, what are you
titrating off of Right Now?
I had just been there likethree days prior and met them.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Well, I wrote down a couple of different things.
The first one is well, no, itcan't be that it's your pancreas
.
Yeah, it can't be Well then Iwould say why does suddenly your
pancreas have problems, likewhy, why did that happen?
You know so.
The second thing is and we hearthis a lot is well, you're on
(08:14):
such a low dose, like dismissalof the dose is irrelevant right.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
It's irrelevant.
So not only do they not know,I'm not titrating, okay, which
is crazy to me, right?
Yes, yes, it's irrelevant.
So not only do they not know,I'm not titrating, okay, which
is crazy to me, right?
The second part of it is thatthere's no education that they
have, or awareness that theyhave on the fact that an SSRI
long-term use okay, 25 years,almost right can actually lead
(08:44):
to these issues with metabolicfunctioning.
And, as you can hear in thiscall, the nurse says no, no, no,
that can't be, so then I say,well, how come tell me, like,
give me something and they can'tright.
So for all you know, anybodylistening that's a provider.
(09:06):
For the fuck's sake.
Like, humble yourself a littlebit.
If you don't know.
An answer say I don't know.
Maybe we got to look more atthis, maybe there is something
to this correlation you speak of, like there's a lot of that.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
I do want to bring that in a little bit too.
Why is it that we have toprovide an answer, or think that
we have to provide an answer?
Could this possibly be?
She would have been better offsaying I'm not sure.
Actually, let me look into that, you know, let me see Right,
instead of just saying, no, it'syour pancreas.
You know like, oh, suddenly Ihave a diseased pancreas.
(09:42):
That's interesting why, I don'tknow.
It just happens sometimes, youknow.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
Whatever you know, and the part of the call that
you guys didn't get either rightat the end was how she went on
to tell me that there are nocorrelations between high
anxiety and blood glucose levels.
Oh well, that's there too.
And so that too is quite onevery, very dismissive.
(10:10):
Because, as we know, because Istarted to tell her at the very
end about the heightened anxietythat I've had during this taper
the last three months has beenreally, really, probably I would
say that, the toughest for mein terms of symptoms I'm
experiencing.
And we know anxiety impactsblood glucose levels.
It releases your hormones, itreleases cortisol, it releases
(10:31):
adrenaline right, and thoseincrease glucose production and
also can reduce how sensitiveyou are to insulin.
Like this is something that Ijust want to.
I can't say it's commonknowledge but I'm not really
quite sure what the words are.
Because to tell, me.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
That's not.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
Knowledge is a good word To tell me that's not real
is almost like malpractice Idon't even know how to say it.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
I do because I want to bring this in as part of,
like somebody's treatment plan.
If suddenly because this wouldbe like a type two diabetes
situation Correct, one of thethings that they would recommend
is nutrition and then stressreduction.
So clearly, clearly, they know.
Why would you even say stressreduction if it didn't matter,
you know, if that stress andcortisol was irrelevant to the
(11:18):
conversation, why would you evenhave it as part of a treatment
plan?
And it's part of everybody'streatment plan for every disease
state.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
It really is.
It really is so.
that, I think, was the cherry ontop of all of the different
dismissals that are occurring.
If you're not watching onYouTube and you're just
listening to us.
The deliverable I put out onthis was naive dismissals, is
what I called it, and I'mwriting out all the naive
dismissals that are occurringalong the way, right, like?
What medication are you eventaking?
No, that doesn't affect bloodsugar.
Oh, it's got to be a pancreasthing.
(11:55):
The pancreas is, you know.
Like all of these, there's noevidence to back the statement
that she says you know.
And so these are the thingsthat happen to us as patients.
Now then, of course, I put thisout on my socials, and I'm so
like I can feel myself gettingextremely anxious talking about
this because it pisses me off somuch.
(12:16):
Right, like I'm physiologicallyreacting right now.
My heart is just racing talkingabout this.
So background information foreverybody, just so that those of
you who are, like, really stuckon the Western model can maybe
get curious a little more.
I have absolutely no familyhistory of diabetes for any
first degree relatives.
I have one relative that doeshave it and is 100% lifestyle
(12:37):
and they are the epitome of thestandard American diet and it's
pretty dangerous shit now.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
So I have none of that.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
I also live the pretty much epitome of what is a
damn healthy lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
I don't know what other nutritional changes you
could make.
I mean, yes, I mean and I'vedone that right.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
This has been a two-year process for me.
First, I started by getting myadrenals in check, because I was
in adrenal failure two yearsago.
I started there and went allthe way through everything from
nutrition to meditation to sleepand everything in between, so
I'm pretty sure I'm the posterchild for dialing in a lifestyle
(13:20):
.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Well, I mean so when Jen, when she called me and we
were talking about this early on, it got me thinking a little
bit about me, because when I wastaking the antidepressants, I
remember being put on metforminat one point and for
pre-diabetic stuff.
(13:43):
Yes, but you know, I've alwaysstruggled with weight and all
these things.
So for me I was like, well, Imean, maybe it makes sense, blah
, blah, blah.
You know, um, all met, form anddid was make me shit my pants,
which is what all these medsmake me do, but anyway, it
didn't help anything else.
Uh, but as she was talking Iwas like, anyway, didn't help
(14:03):
anything else.
But as she was talking I waslike, holy shit, that actually
happened and I haven't.
Since being off of that manyyears ago, I haven't had any
blood sugar problems at all.
And I look like between the twoof us, like if you were to just
like, you know, look at, Iwould be the one with type two
diabetes issues here.
The diabetes.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
It's got to be the diabetes.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
I got the diabetes, but I don't.
I don't have blood sugar issues, I don't have.
The only time I did was when Iwas on an SSRI and put on
metformin and I didn't evenconnect those dots at all until
she said that and I was likeholy shit balls, like that
actually happened.
And I'm like wow, cause I knowI had.
(14:43):
I also had metabolic problemswhen I was on it too.
You know weight gain and thingslike that and you know,
metabolically this stuff canimpact you.
But it's so funny because whenyou really start talking to
people and they tell you alltheir health conditions they
have and and all the psych medsthey're on, and my, my, now my
question always is did thosethings happen after you were put
(15:07):
on the psychiatric medication?
And the majority of times it'syes.
And especially when I seeyounger people now suddenly
having high cholesterol or aheart murmur or all these
hypertension, like all this highcholesterol, you know they're
(15:28):
young, they're healthy, they'reon antidepressants or
psychiatric medication and nowtheir health status is bad.
And so the argument is well,you know, health status can be
bad if you have mental healthissues.
You know, without medicationI'm like I mean true, because
people aren't taking care ofthemselves.
There's a lot of lifestylefactors involved and things like
(15:49):
that, but we cannot dismissthat they didn't have those
before they were put on theantidepressants.
So yeah, and we're not talkingabout just tricyclic
antidepressants here, we'retalking about your standard fair
SSRIs, snris, you know.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
So we're going to talk a little bit about this
research that Jen sent me.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
This is interesting stuff too, and I think we should
probably do a whole episode onthe heart, because that scares
the shit out of me with heart.
But these are reallyconversations in the realm of
you can't get something fornothing, right?
Like what you put in your body.
There is an input and an output, and this is part of it right
(16:31):
here.
So you know, and this is justone piece of literature, right?
So take this piece ofliterature and get you know,
curious about this, go to thecitations and look at who they
use to cite in here, and thatwill lead you down a rabbit hole
of darkness.
So be careful.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
It does.
And then you can't stop readingand researching.
And I tell you in the lastmonth if you're a client of mine
.
This is something that I'mconstantly funneling research to
my clients on, because what'svery interesting is a good chunk
of them have got some form of ametabolic syndrome that they
are going through and that theyare medicated for, and we've
(17:11):
been talking about thesecorrelations for a while, but
all of a sudden, now I'm in itmore, so I'm pouring my time and
hours into research, reading,and then I'm funneling this out
to everybody.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
I just want to mention this.
What I don't understand is thepeople like when I present a
piece of literature, I'm notpresenting it as the absolute
truth.
There's really nothing outthere that is the absolute truth
.
Yes, you are Terry, otherwisewe wouldn't have more research
opportunities If someone's likeone study with 99 middle-aged
women in that we're going totalk about.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
This is the be all end all people.
This is it.
This is it.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
This is it.
Yes, but if you're reading theresearch articles that we bring
up, don't try to poke holes inall of it, because you don't
want it to be true, right?
I feel like that's where peoplecome from.
They're like well, I'm going tofind all the bad parts about
this research.
You can do that for anyresearch article.
(18:06):
There's plenty of not goodresearch.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
You can always find what you're looking for.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
You can always find what you're looking for.
So when you do this, do it withan open mind of curiosity
instead of I don't want it to betrue and whatever.
Be curious about it.
So that's all I'm going to sayabout research right now.
So, cause we know there's athere's a lot of shit research
out there, but there's a lot ofnot shit research, and it's
funny.
One, one last thing.
Somebody said well, thisresearch that I presented called
(18:32):
for more research.
That means this research wasn'tgood.
I'm like every research articlecalls for different research on
the topic.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
As it should, because they're where the gaps are
Correct.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
And then research that gap.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
That's exactly it yeah, so that's a really good
comment.
Whoever that was, thank you.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
You really made Harry smarter.
It was so smart.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Yeah.
So let's look at this article.
It's called the RelationshipBetween SSRIs and Metabolic
Syndrome Abnormalities inPatients with Generalized
Anxiety Disorder, a ProspectiveStudy.
This is in the National Libraryof Medicine, published by
PubMed Central.
So, anyway, what's the date?
Oh, the date is 2013.
(19:17):
So this is, like you know,freaking 12 years ago.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
This is 12 years ago, but my nurse, my nurse, knows
nothing.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
She knows nothing.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
This isn't a thing, my goodness.
So this is kind of old I foundthis, though, and I thought that
that was very relevant, eventhough it's not brand new.
This is the start of themcalling for more research, even
in this article, which is prettycool because it's and, of
course, we have stuff that isnewer, and you can find stuff
that's newer but what'sinteresting to me is this idea
(19:47):
that this really trulyspecifically the relationship
between SSRIs and metabolicsyndrome, you know, over 10
years ago it was already beingstudied right, so what?
Speaker 1 (19:57):
do we got here?
Well, I would guess because theamount of people that have been
prescribed this is going up andup and up that you're going to
see more diabetes.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
The first line of this article is SSRIs are some
of the most widely prescribedmedications in the world.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
So why they?
Speaker 4 (20:14):
pick.
This makes sense because theyare.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
It makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
They still are.
They still are.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
The next line, though , got to take beef with.
In addition to theireffectiveness, SSRIs were
reported to be associated withthe side effects of weight gain,
sexual dysfunction, druginteractions I can't even say
this word.
Extrapyramid middle you knowwhat that is?
(20:42):
I had to look that up.
Do you know what that means?
It's a group of movementdisorders.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
It's like part of dyskinesia.
I was imagining a pyramid ofsymptoms like Maslow's hierarchy
of needs.
No, that's what this prettygirl thought it was.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
It says right here, these symptoms can include
akathisia, dystonia, parkinson,tremors, involuntary movements.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
Parkinson like tremors, involuntary movements,
and I'm like I didn't know whatit was.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
So that's what we've been talking about.
There's a word for it?
Yes, there is, but nobody knowsit, and it was labeled guys.
But anyway and discontinuationsymptoms.
However, they don't know.
The metabolic parameters arepoorly understood.
So, um, these guys I I thinkwell, jen, you looked in this a
little bit more deeply than Idid Um, but there was 97 women
(21:29):
aged 20 to 41, um, without anymetabolic or psychiatric
comorbidity, so it was justanxiety were included in the
study.
So the the meds that theylooked at were, um, oh gosh, I I
wrote all of them down.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
Proxetine, zoloft, which is your, your Sertraline.
Celexa, cetalopram, uh, theLexapro, which is what I'm on,
which is Cetalopram, and thenProzac, which is your
Phylexatine.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Well, done, well, done, yes, anyway, so they.
They looked at these women whoare taking these medications,
which, yeah, they found somevery interesting.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
Just a little bit more holistic, probably not
nearly as much as I am, butsomeone who at least is a little
bit more open to things.
So I did call back and tellthem that I fired them, but I do
have to go in there for my pap,so when I do I'm just going to
slide a little more research tothem so they can have a better
understanding of the fact thatthis has been looked at for the
last 15 years already.
But what this study did and wecan read in general, so what
(22:56):
they found is in the group thatwas taking Paxil, that
paroxetine group, there was apretty significant increase in
their weight, their BMI, waistcircumference, fasting, glucose,
total cholesterol, ldltrigcerides after about four,
three to four months oftreatment, so they say 16 weeks.
So they took these women whohad no other comorbidities and
(23:18):
they were just bill of healthand you have anxiety disorder
and they put them on this SSRIfor 16 weeks and here's what
happened there were significantincreases in triglycerides in
the citalopram group okay, whichis the Celexa group.
Guyscerides in the citalopramgroup okay, which is the Celexa
group.
Guys in the e-citalopram group,which is the Lexapro In the
sertraline group the totalcholesterol level increased
(23:40):
after treatment.
So your cholesterol is going up.
For sertraline and thenflexatine there was significant
reductions in weight,cholesterol and triglycerides.
So in the flexatine group therewere actually some reductions
that happened with weight,cholesterol and triglycerides.
So in the fluxatine group therewere actually some reductions
that happened with weight,cholesterol and triglycerides.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Correlation doesn't equal causation.
I'm just kidding.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
I know.
But what this study isconcluding and it's showing is
that they say they're one of thefirst studies that really
prospectively describedmetabolic syndrome and looked at
what that is and theabnormalities in patients that
take SSRIs.
But in general, all of thoseSSRIs, with the exception of one
, were leading to problems withBMI, weight, blood glucose,
(24:20):
triglycerides.
They actually break down someof the cholesterol things in
here too, which very interesting, my LDL cholesterol is very
high.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
It's usually the LDL, I believe, is what they is.
That's your bad cholesterol.
Mine is very high guys.
So just so, youl, I believe, iswhat they is.
That's your bad cholesterol,mine is very high guys.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
So, just so you know, when I looked at this, one of
the things that I panicked overa little bit besides the fact
that they're telling me, hey, mydiabetes I was like, nah, fuck
you guys, you know what you'retalking about but I was worried
about the cholesterol parks.
My LDL is quite high.
I went back and I looked at mycholesterol for the last six
years, because I've got all ofit and it's it.
Um, it has been high, but notquite this high, um, so that's
(24:55):
interesting to me, just becauseI need to pay attention to that,
even though, like, my HDL is isin a good spot overall.
My cholesterol was high, though, and that's with a lot of
really good lifestyle shit goingon.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Um, and I've never had that and with the, with
tapering down, correct Tapering.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
So, that's the part.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
So here's the change, guys, for me is lifestyle went
into great.
I kicked that into gear likeepitome of eat, sleep, move,
meditate, got that dialed in,but a year and a half ago what
did change is I started totitrate off of this Lexapro.
I have all of those levels fromyears prior Okay, and they were
pretty stable, which tells methat, as I am removing this
(25:38):
medication from my body andimproving all of my lifestyle
stuff, there's something that'sgoing on within my body that is
now kicking out fucked up bloodglucose levels.
Now, to be fair, that couldhave just been an error on a
test, because of course, whatdid I do?
I did what Terry told me to do,because sometimes she's so smart
, and I went and started takingmy blood sugars every fucking
(25:59):
day, multiple times a day.
I'm a week into doing this I'venever had a high blood sugar
guys, never over 101.
That was my highest, so I justhave to tell everyone it could
be, but you know it's weird.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
It could be a fluke, but it's listed diagnostically
in your file now.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
I now have a diagnosis of hyperglycemia.
I was diagnosed already, guysoff of one fasting blood glucose
test, Um, so that's anotherthing that I think bothers me
too in this process is those ofus that are taking
antidepressants and I know a lotof people listening probably
are going oh my God, I've hadhigh blood sugars, I've had
(26:36):
issues with my heart rate.
Yeah, you probably have anddidn't have any pre-existing
conditions, right, and that'ssomething that I think you got
to be curious about becausethere are errors in testing.
That happens.
Terry and I went down the darkblack hole of what happens with
blood blood fasting glucoses ifyou fast for too long, and
(26:57):
there's a bunch of research outthere about like, if you do a 10
or a 12 hour fast which I didright.
I was like yeah, I stoppedeating at seven 30 and drinking
at night and went and had myblood sugar test at six 30 in
the morning.
That's funny.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
I got to say that's interesting.
That's interesting because Idid have a blood one blood sugar
elevation and I didn't eat.
It was at.
I had to go in at like oneo'clock in the afternoon and I
and I fasted all night and allmorning and cause, what am I
going to eat at you know 3am?
I'm going to you know whatever?
And it was a little elevated.
(27:30):
That's fascinating, that'sfunny.
I just thought about that.
I'm scrolling right now.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
I know, I know so.
So this, this we have two.
We had two articles that Terryand I had sent back and forth
between each other.
This was one of them and ittalked so basically it talked a
lot about that.
They are finding that thereneeded to be more research
between these links rightBetween SSRIs and then these
metabolic syndromes that areoccurring for people along the
way.
So my question would be is itoccurring after the start?
(27:58):
These guys had 16 weeks of thismed in their body.
Okay, what happens after 25years?
And what happens more so whenyou start to change the levels
and you start to continuouslybring that level down?
Speaker 1 (28:18):
This makes me curious , because do you remember the
episode we did on alcohol?
And when you are bringing thelevel down, you're more likely
to have some reaction withalcohol to make you be more
impaired more drunk, yeah,exactly when you're bringing
your levels down.
So I'm like this is, this isreally, this is if anyone's
listening and they'reresearching, this is the
research right here what happenswhen you are tapering your
(28:41):
medication Like, does that causea cascade of metabolic problems
?
Speaker 2 (28:46):
And what are they?
And what?
Speaker 1 (28:47):
should we be watching for and what should we not be
dismissing?
Right, then, that doesn't meanthat Jen needs to run out and
start insulin and all thesethings.
It's like to me, it's like thiswill go away, because that was
part of it.
Part of that study was, whenthey stopped, guess what?
It came back to baseline.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
Yep, everything moved itself back to baseline, so
that's one of the ones we wanted.
It's a testament to your body.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
By the way I know, it's a testament to the healing
properties of your body, yep,and it does what it needs to do.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Now don't get me wrong.
I mean there was like I spent aweek really pissed off and
clearly just blasted this wholephone call.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
I'm more pissed that they put it as a diagnosis for
you based on one lab test.
So we're going to try to getthat.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
We're trying to get that fucker retracted, but
here's the deal, which it doescause issues, right, that's a
pre-diabetes diagnosis and solike if you're looking at life
insurance life insurance yeah,like I.
That's the first thing Ithought of, because we may or
may not be looking at that rightnow, and that's a you from
either receiving it or how yourrates are going to look.
Your rates.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah for sure, glucose level.
So right, this is this secondstudy, though this is this was.
I was, I was panicking oh wait,no, is this the one that I sent
you, the very and from verywell health.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
Uh, yeah, you yeah, Okay.
This is a huge study.
You sent me this right away.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
I want to tell you this is from 2020.
So this is now newer, right,and it was published in Diabetes
Care Journal, which is cool.
It's interesting to me whenbecause the other one that I was
talking about was published ina cardiac journal.
It's interesting to me whenother areas publish research
(30:33):
about medication for psychiatricproblems, and I think that's
cool, but it's also gets reallydismissed or just not checked in
on, you know, anyway.
So the title is called theAssociation Between the Use of
Antidepressants and the Risk ofType 2 Diabetes large
population-based cohort study,and this was done in Japan in
(30:53):
2020.
This study had 90,000participants, which is giant.
I mean, it's a huge study.
It's a lot of people to look at.
They found that antidepressantsincreased the risk of type 2
diabetes.
That's it.
This risk increased with longerterm use of antidepressants and
higher dosage, and so theyfound that, also with the heart
(31:16):
studies, the longer you use it,the higher the dose, the worse
off it is for you, which makessense, right?
I mean it makes a lot of sense.
The study also found thatglucose tolerance improved when
the antidepressants werediscontinued or reduced Back to
baseline, right?
So what is your baseline?
Is the question.
Like we never know whatpeople's baselines are because
(31:37):
we keep adding in more shit.
You know that doesn't allowthem ever to get back to
baseline, you know.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
Right, right, and it's also and some of that also
right.
This is where some of it can bearbitrary.
Right, because if you'resomebody who's taking an
antidepressant, like myself, for24 years almost, or whatever
the hell it is I don't even knowthat's math, I don't do well
with that but your baseline isalmost arbitrary at that point.
I'm not going to go back andlook at a baseline from when I
(32:04):
was 17 years old.
My body has changed so muchsince then.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
It has not since you were 17.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
I had those two tiny humans who took every fucking
lick of everything out of me.
So when you think about this, Iwill have and I actually at one
point had my doctor talkingwith me a little bit about
baseline stuff, and I kind ofjust chuckle because I think
that part is arbitrary too.
Now, if you could say, let's,we've tested this every single
(32:33):
year for the last how many yearswe could kind of get a baseline
.
But can we?
because I don't know whatoriginally it should have been
in the first place, cause thishas always been in my body and
what we know as well is thatit's always impacting the
metabolic functioning in somesorts, because the body is
constantly interacting andtrying to just reach these
levels of homeostasis.
(32:53):
Right now my body can't.
It's trying every day to get tohomeostasis so it's changing
every time I do a dose reductionand then all that time in
between.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
They just happened to hit you on a day that your body
was reacting metabolically tothis.
I do want to bring something inhere real quick too, because it
does say you know, there aresome studies have found that
SSRIs help control blood sugarin the short term.
Yep, In the short term.
That's important, you know tounderstand, and we can probably
(33:43):
go back to that whole stressconversation that we had before
that in the early stages of usepeople do often tend to feel
better, right, Like in the veryshort term, early stages.
And that's where the that'swhere then the studies are cut
off and you're like well, thathasn't happened to me.
And they say that it helpscontrol blood sugar.
That's great, but that doesn'tmean for somebody else that it's
not the opposite.
You know that both can be trueat the same time and it's really
all person dependent.
It is, yeah, it's really allphysiology dependent of the
(34:07):
person, Right, and I would arguethat it probably has less to do
with your lifestyle than itdoes with the medication, Right,
Right, yeah, Because in mybrain.
Speaker 4 (34:19):
That's where I start as a patient.
Right, we start to panic alittle bit, but at first, and
I'm thinking, okay, mycholesterol is really high and
my LDL is super high.
Right, my blood glucose isthrough the roof.
And the first thing in my mind,as like a holistic practitioner
, I'm sitting here going okay,what have I done in the world of
(34:41):
nutrition lately?
That's different.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Like say in the last like three to six months.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
what have I done?
And I'm thinking about all ofthese different things, and when
I pause long enough, I'm likewait a minute.
No, like none of that adds up,because that stuff is really
dialed in and I take really goodcare of myself in that way.
I had to when I startedtitrating off of Lexapro.
I had to.
It's like the only way for mebecause otherwise the titration
(35:05):
would be horrific.
So you start going there atfirst as a patient, but then you
get yourself to a space of likewhat I'm just going to say is
reality and go this doesn't addup.
It doesn't make sense and ofcourse, they want to do more
blood work and they want me todo an A1C and they want me to
start looking like they calledit pre-diabetes protocol is what
she had said to me and startlooking at that.
(35:25):
And I'm just sitting here going, yeah, I'm not buying it.
Now, the reality, though, thatsome of us are faced with, that
we also can't dismiss, is that Icould have abnormalities in a
metabolic way because of thismedication, because that is also
a reality that you can developdiabetes.
(35:47):
You can have issues withinsulin resistance, with heart
rate, blood pressure, pancreasand liver functioning
specifically liver, that'sanother one.
Don't go down that dark hole,guys, and start researching
liver and SSRIs.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Okay Well they just did a whole big thing on sudden
cardiac death with all theantidepressants.
But yeah, this is reality.
Speaker 4 (36:08):
That's the shitty part of it too, so I can't
dismiss that either, and I haveto pay attention to my blood
sugars, and I have to startmonitoring this because it could
be a reality for me too.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Right, yeah, it's just an interesting conversation
and one that we want you toknow.
Okay, so let's say you're on anSSRI, or an SNRI for a long
time and suddenly your bloodsugars go haywire and you ask
the nurse, just like Jen did, isthere a relationship between
(36:40):
this and that?
And they go oh no, it's justyour pancreas, Right?
I want you to not take that asthe final answer, Right, Like
it's not the final answer.
And so then the question iswell then, why is my pancreas
suddenly responding this way?
Like what?
What is it, you know?
So I guess this whole thing isjust like your health status is
(37:01):
not stagnant and you can becurious about whatever you want
in your own health status, aslong as you want to be right.
If you want to just go down theregular, you know a Western
medicine route and start takingmore pills for this and pills,
then you can.
You have the right to do thattoo, you know.
But we would prefer that youget a little bit curious about
(37:23):
this, obviously, especially whenI see younger people and when I
say younger, I'm like 40 andunder, you know, in their
forties and under like this isnot normal for you guys to be
struggling in these ways withyour health you know, and I'm
not saying that it should benormal for a 60 year old either,
(37:44):
but it's more typical, I guess,would be the thing.
But but then I would argue thatmaybe it shouldn't be typical
for that group either, but thatthey're so medicated, but anyway
.
So the younger people that arehaving these serious problems
with their organs is alarming tome and the dismissal that we
(38:05):
have.
Well, would you rather haveyour depression or type 2
diabetes?
Well, sorry, karen, I'd ratherhave neither, I'd rather not do
either.
Why do we do this stupidtrade-off?
Would you rather have now type2 diabetes and have your anxiety
under control, jen?
(38:25):
Oh wait, at that point it wasyour depression.
Would you rather havedepression under control or type
2 diabetes?
Speaker 4 (38:32):
Yeah, it's definitely depression.
I developed anxiety.
I never had that.
I do now.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Yeah, I'm like she never had.
That's not why she was on it,but now she's an anxiety patient
, which is just anotherconversation too.
You start with one thing, youend up with something else.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
I was a grieving depressive patient and I
developed anxiety along the way.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Yeah, I'm over it.
Speaker 4 (38:57):
I'm so, oh my God, I'm so fucking over it.
But this is the stuff to getcurious about, guys.
So that is what we wanted topresent to you today, and don't
be gaslit by this, right.
Don't be gaslit by the ideathat all of a sudden, you've got
some medical things that aregoing on in your life Okay, even
if you already have somepreexisting things, and they're
(39:19):
getting worse, and it's notmaking sense because, overall
your lifestyle, you are dialingthose things in right.
So, if that's the case,continue to get curious about it
, challenge your providers inthis, pull up research and show
them Again.
Research isn't the thing, but itcan be a thing that you use as
a tool, but at the end of theday, you can do things on your
(39:41):
own to monitor these things.
I went and started testing myblood glucose, got my ass on
Amazon, spent 40 bucks, got aglucose meter and a bunch of
strips and multiple times a dayand repeat it at the same times.
I'm measuring it, writing itall down right, I've got a bunch
of collateral that's showing methat you're probably okay.
I don't need to move forwardwith pre-diabetes protocol, but
(40:02):
I do need to pay attention to it, because the reality is, some
of these metabolic things canoccur, and they can occur at the
cost of taking long-term SSRIs.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Or possibly tapering, or tapering.
Yeah, yeah, that's aninteresting one, that's the call
for research.
Speaker 4 (40:19):
There are research nerds.
Let's go.
Where are they?
Speaker 1 (40:24):
I'd like to know when are you guys, I mean we've got
it.
Speaker 4 (40:26):
Terry's got it in her , but I don't.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Yeah, I don't even know that I do Not don't.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Yeah, I don't even know that I do Not anymore, all
right?
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Well, that's another episode of the Gaslit Truth
Podcast.
Thanks for hanging out with usand please leave us all the five
stars, only five stars, andmake sure you like, comment,
share and you can send us yourgaslit truth at
thegaslittruthpodcast atgmailcom.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
Thanks guys.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.