August 22, 2025 • 37 mins
Welcome to the Gathering!
Have you ever wanted to sharpen your conflict resolution skills?
Meet Marius Andrews as he discusses what causes conflicts and the steps to resolve conflicts. Marius lives in South Africa where he is a certified counselor for youth, and mentors young adults. He is a life coach for adults and specializes in conflict resolution. His life experience includes ministry, mission work, church planting, discipleship, and community outreach. You may reach out to Marius via email: mariusandrews@gmail.com or Whatsapp at +27 082 406 4635.
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Episode Transcript
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UNKNOWN (00:00):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (00:08):
Hello, my friends, and welcome to the gathering,
Daughters of the Living King,where we seek to know and
experience the love of Christ.
I am your host, Judy Killebrew,and my experience and passion is
in encouraging and empoweringothers in their walk of faith
with our Lord.
(00:28):
Hebrews 10.25 states, And let usnot neglect our meeting
together, as some people do, butencourage one another,
especially now that the day ofhistory return is drawing near.
Hello, my friends.
I am so happy.
I have a wonderful guest, MariusAndrews, who is from South
(00:49):
Africa, but mainly we arefriends.
We serve on YouVersion'sleadership development team
together, and he is just anawesome person.
He's also a mentor and a coachand And he was a missionary.
So there are just so manyfabulous things that Marius has
done with his life and continuesto do.
(01:11):
And so, Marius, we're going tobe talking about the messiness
in avoiding conflict resolution.
And I want to welcome you to ourshow.
Just whatever you want to tellus about yourself.
SPEAKER_00 (01:25):
Hi, Judy, and everybody that's listening.
Thank you so much for theopportunity to be able to share
on your podcast.
I'm really excited about this.
As Judy already mentioned, I'mfrom South Africa.
I'm more in the southern part ofthe country.
I'm living at the coast in avery small town called Great
Brock River.
It's a beautiful town, a bigriver flowing through it.
(01:48):
So I'm really, I'm at my, Iwould always say my peak.
My place where I just, Iabsolutely love it.
I've got two daughters, Mariska,who's the oldest one, and then
Michaela, she's the younger one.
I absolutely love them.
They are my, they really, theymake my world.
(02:11):
I really, truly love them.
And then, one is 35, and theother one is 30 this year.
So, I'm They've moved to thenorthern part of the country, so
I truly miss them, actually,because I only see them about
once a year.
But when I see them, we have somuch fun together.
I grew up in a very conservativekind of Christian home.
(02:35):
And after school, I decided to,because I'm a more passionate,
out-of-the-box kind of person,And so I rejoined another
church, a more Pentecostal kindof church, where I could live
out the way I worship the Lord.
And ever since, I'm still partof it.
Ever since I was small, I alwayshad this heart for people.
(02:56):
And I remember when I was small,I always had this small little
suitcase full of biblical chaps.
And I always handed them out.
I mean, I was like seven yearsold when I walked in the street.
I didn't even exactly know whatwas happening, but I gave people
chaps.
And I remember the people alwayssaid this.
young guy is going to end up inthe mission field one day.
And it did happen.
(03:17):
I ended up in the mission field.
I did some training and most ofmy mission work was in Southern
Africa.
I've done most of the countriesin Southern Africa and also
Madagascar.
My heart was pioneering.
So I plant church planting andthen discipling.
I truly love that very much.
And out of that, the whole thingof youth developed because a lot
(03:39):
of young outreaches Missionoutages used to come in the
shoulders of a lot of people.
And for the last 20 plus years,22 years, I've been full-time in
youth ministry, where I domentoring and coaching.
Also, I'm a qualified careerguidance counselor as well,
where I help young people makingtheir right choices in guidance
(04:03):
in terms of careers.
And yeah, I'm very passionateabout that.
And that's more or less in anutshell what I'm doing.
So I truly love what I'm doing.
I'm passionate about the newgeneration coming up because I
believe at some stage we'regoing to have to stand back and
we're going to have to hand overthe button and jump.
So I'm very excited about that.
SPEAKER_01 (04:25):
Thank you, Maurice.
And yes, thinking about thegeneration coming up, oh my
goodness, these are our futureleaders.
These are the leaders thatChrist is raising up to be
warriors for him.
And when I think about thisgeneration and I just wonder, do
(04:45):
they know how to handle conflictresolution?
Because that's something that'snot really taught with our
generation.
It's not taught, really it's nottaught in any of the schools.
And if you don't have someone asa mentor that can help you
through conflict resolution, wekind of tend to shy away from
(05:06):
it, don't we?
And so when I'm thinking aboutthat and how you mentor these
young people, tell me how do youguide them with conflict
resolution?
And I guess going back to thebasic, what causes conflicts?
SPEAKER_00 (05:25):
Judy, there's actually...
I was thinking about it, andthere's actually quite a long
list, but I'll try and narrow itdown.
My main thing of approaching isI have the privilege of being
part of youth centres.
There's one in the village whereI live, it's called Youth Cafes,
(05:45):
where there's always youngpeople and people that...
They are taught a lot ofdifferent skills, life skills
and everything.
And they're coming and going.
And I always have the exposureof working with them and even
people that I mentor, becauseI'm not just mentioning people
here in South Africa, people inEurope and all over South Africa
that I mentor.
So it's not just here.
(06:06):
And the big thing that causes, Ithink to start off with, that
causes conflict.
And let me, can I just startwith this?
I personally believe there'snothing wrong with conflict.
I actually think it's abeautiful thing because it
causes us to grow.
The main problem comes in whenthey don't know how to resolve
(06:27):
the conflict or how to managethe conflict.
That's where the thing is.
So I just want to put that outthere that I think conflict is a
beautiful thing.
And it will always happen.
We can never get away from itbecause the moment two persons
get into contact with oneanother, there will be conflict
because of differentbackgrounds, different
personalities, and all that kindof things.
So, but yeah.
(06:48):
One of the first things I wantto mention about causes of
conflict is intolerance.
Especially now with thegeneration where we are now, the
focus is so much on myself andthe tolerance is just not there.
I'm not just the young peopleall over the country.
This morning, I was doingtraining on conflict resolution.
(07:09):
That's one of the things thatcame up.
And I could use our country as agreat example.
And it's unfortunate, but it'strue.
People are just strongertolerating one another because
of differences.
So that's one of the things.
(07:30):
And then poor communication,definitely.
Or you can also say it's poorinterpersonal skills where
people don't know how tocommunicate with one another.
And that's usually when I dotraining in conflict resolution,
I start off a week prior to thatwhere I train communication,
different communication skills,and that leads into the whole,
(07:52):
because if you don't havecommunication skills, then
conflict resolution is a verydifficult thing to work on.
Another one is prejudice.
That is also something thatreally causes causes conflict.
And people just know that beforeI even speak to the people, I
(08:13):
think I'm better than thisperson.
I think this, and I think that,and especially if I can use our
country again, as an example, inthe past, things that happened
in our country years ago.
And unfortunately, some of thatis still here.
But just that, you know, beforeyou even have actually learned
to know the person, you alreadymade yourself This is what I
(08:34):
think of you.
And then when it causesconflict, and then when a
conflict resolution, you step inand you start doing it, you
realize, oh my goodness, I wastotally over the top here.
So that's another one.
Making assumptions.
Oh my goodness.
And that is...
I remember I was in a situationwith an organization.
(08:57):
They're doing wonderful work ina town not far away from here,
in a community, a very poorcommunity.
And there was a stage when someof the mentors that was
facilitators as a part of thisorganization, there was just
this assumptions that was madeall the time.
And I'm assuming this and I'massuming that.
(09:19):
And that's when I docommunication training.
I always say, make sure...
what the person has said, havethat, I would call it,
reflective listening.
Make sure you reflect what theother person was saying.
Or there's another word somepeople talk about, active
listening.
I like the word reflectivelistening because you reflect on
what the person was saying.
And I mean, that in itself is asubject that I teach just a
(09:43):
morning on, just on reflectivelistening.
So make sure you know what theother person was saying by
reflecting, say, is this whatyou say?
I just want to confirm this.
And then the person can, andthen it's just such a beautiful
thing.
Even if you go into the processof conflict resolution, it's
part of the active listening.
(10:03):
Then another one is obviouslypersonality conflicts, different
people with different kinds ofpersonalities.
There was some stage where Imade different personality
analysis part of the training.
This is the kind of personalitythat Marius has.
This is the kind of personalitythat Julia has.
This is why she reacts the wayshe reacts.
(10:24):
And now Marius understands herbetter.
So that's something that reallycauses conflict as well.
Then, unfortunately, somethingelse is self-interest.
It's all about me, myself, andI.
Actually, one of the youngstersthis morning said, gave a
perfect example of somethingthat's in their family that's
(10:45):
happening about this person.
It's always about this uncle.
It's always about him.
It's always about self.
And it's just not open fordiscussion and keeps on causing
conflict.
And unfortunately, there istimes when it's just not
working.
And I think if I give a perfectexample, that is where Paul and
(11:07):
Barnabas had the disagreementabout Mark.
And I mean, what was sobeautiful is Barnabas spent a
whole year with Paul, traininghim and equipping him, and it
was like life on life for a yearlong.
And then, I mean, he was likethe mentor for Paul.
And then there came the stagewhere Mark did do some things
(11:29):
that Paul didn't agree with, buthe just said no.
And their ways parted.
The conflict was, that wasconflict.
And They could have both grownout of it, but they just decided
their ways are going to part.
So they do happen.
You can go and read it in Actswhere they talk about it.
(11:49):
So unfortunately, that dohappen.
Then there's another one, lackof empathy.
Not everybody has got empathy.
This morning, there was this guyin the training session.
He's got a very cholericpersonality.
and his way of handling conflictis very direct and he's very he
(12:13):
actually commits he says I don'thave empathy for people and I
mean that's sad to hear so thatis really that's stressful as
well because there's some of hisinterns that are such passionate
people shy people and there'sjust no empathy and that causes
(12:34):
conflict and the difficult to doconflict resolution so that's
more or less in a nutshellthere's so many other examples
that I can give about differentkinds of that causes conflict
but I think the main thing isand I always say we must listen
to understand and not listen toreact and I think that's one big
(12:55):
thing is that people talk to youand then you're already thinking
in the back of your head oh thisis how I'm going to react this
is what I'm going to say whenIt's shorter than the person
say, but you didn't listen to aword that I was saying.
So I think it's important for usto really practice our listening
skills.
I think that's one of the mainthings.
SPEAKER_01 (13:15):
I love that.
And you know what, Maurice, whenyou were talking about
reflective listening and activelistening and just understanding
what the other person is saying,sometimes I think, wow, It's not
so much verbal communicationthese days.
(13:35):
It's a lot of communication viatext or email.
And we can definitely getoffended by what somebody has
written and then go on adifferent tangent and be upset
over something that was notintended at all.
SPEAKER_00 (13:52):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
UNKNOWN (13:55):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (13:56):
What I wanted to add there, Judy, and that's one of
the things, especially, again,with the younger generation,
with social media nowadays, it'sunbelievable how people will
attack one another on socialmedia nowadays.
And I remember, I always use theexample, I remember, and you
will agree with me, when we werestill young, you would not dare
(14:18):
to look in your sister's littlejournal that she has.
That was her little treasure.
And oh my goodness, if you dareto do it, you will be on the red
carpet with your dad.
Now they blast all of that onsocial media.
They attack one another.
It's bullying everything.
So it's not just conflict.
It's just bullying.
And unfortunately, yeah, that'sthe thing that is there.
(14:43):
So I totally agree with youthere.
SPEAKER_01 (14:45):
Yes.
And then I think of, what ourGod says.
And in Proverbs 27, 17, he says,as iron sharpens iron, so one
person sharpens another.
And so I take that verse as notonly to encourage each other,
but we should also not avoidconflict resolution and we
(15:10):
should embrace it and try to getour differences settled and
clarify the issue.
And so when I'm thinking aboutthat, Marius.
What are some of the things wecan do to solve
SPEAKER_00 (15:24):
conflict?
I want to quickly just jump inthere.
We will not be able to reallystop conflict because conflict
will be there.
The thing is what we can do isto resolve that conflict.
And I always say this basically,and I'm not going to go too deep
into this, basically three stepsthat you can follow.
(15:46):
And Tip number one, I call itself-check.
Before you even go and sit downwith that people, that's when,
well, for instance, when Imediate, we are being a mediator
when a mediator is called in.
I say, listen, guys, even beforeI'm going to come here, each
individual needs to go and do aself-check.
You need to make sure that Iwill be emotionally ready for
(16:07):
this.
Am I willing to resolve thisconflict?
Because it's no use you come andsit there and have this
discussion or this meeting toresolve it.
but you don't want to be there.
And I can give example onexample of that.
So you need to do thatself-check, sort yourself out.
If you are too angry or upsetbecause of offense or something
(16:27):
said, tell the other party, say,listen, give me maybe an hour or
give me this afternoon or a day,but I just need to get myself
together.
But, and I always make this, butcapital letters with
exclamation.
You cannot just say, give mesome time to work this out.
because then it's never going tohappen.
The other person needs to putdown and say, listen, okay, but
(16:52):
when?
Will it be this afternoon?
Will it be Thursday morning, orwill it be next Wednesday?
There needs to be a time limitand say, listen, okay, this is
the time you're going to need,depending on the seriousness of
it.
And then there's three rules, westill have self-check, that you
need to ask or commit yourselfto before you go into this
(17:14):
conflict resolution, step numbertwo, is that you're going to
tell yourself, I'm not going tofight and I'm not going to
argue.
Because conflict resolution isnot about arguing or blaming or
anything like that.
We need to focus on the problemat hand.
The next thing you need to askyourself, will I be honest?
It's no use you come there andyou sugarcoat the situation or
(17:37):
you're trying this.
You need to be honest.
This is what I experienced.
This is what I felt.
And then, Listen withoutinterrupting.
If you can't go in there, eachperson needs to tell their
story.
Once you've sorted that out andonce you are sure, then you can
say, okay, guys, I'm ready.
Let's do it.
And that's where step two comesin, which I call honest
(18:00):
communication.
This is where the actualconflict resolution is taking
place.
And this mainly, absolutely,this is when you need to
practice your listening skillsagain.
that reflective listening, thatactive listening.
And as I said, we can standstill with that whole thing, how
it's happened.
(18:20):
And I always say, listen to whatthe other person is saying and
then reply, okay, this is myexperience.
This is what I heard you saying.
Make sure.
And then I call it iMessages.
When you go into thisresolution, say, Judy, this is
what I experienced.
(18:41):
This is what I felt you weresaying.
Don't go in there and say, ohyeah, but that's what you said
and that's what you said.
No, because immediately you'reputting that other person,
you're making fire there andyou're causing that.
No, this is what you heard.
Because many times that's notwhat the other person meant.
It's just you misunderstood thething.
(19:02):
So if you come with I messages,this is what I experienced, this
is what I felt.
Then the other person say, butMaurice, that's not what I mean.
That's not what I said.
This is actually what I said.
And sometimes the conflict isresolved right there.
It doesn't even go to stepthree.
It's resolved because it was notmisunderstood.
There was, I assume this is whatyou said.
(19:23):
No, Maurice, you didn't listen.
This is what I actually said.
So use iMessages.
Then the next thing is don'tfall into the trap where you
say, oh, who's right?
Don't try and find out who'sright.
It's not about who's right andwho's wrong in the situation.
It's all about what is thesituation that happened, what
(19:44):
caused the situation.
And then once that is sortedout, everybody said the same,
you reacted on what I said andthis, you said, everybody heard
and everything was discussed.
Then we get to step three, whichis called the find a solution.
And this is where you go andsay, okay, what can each person
do to improve the situation, thething that caused this whole
(20:07):
conflict.
This is what Marius is going todo.
This is what Judy is going todo.
Then usually there's two orthree solutions on the table.
Then you brainstorm everysolution and you find the one
that's the most fairest.
And then there needs to be aplan of action.
And sometimes when it's a veryserious thing where I need to
mediate and it's not justbetween two people, I'll make
(20:29):
sure there's a written plan ofaction.
Okay?
Because this is what Judy needsto do.
This is what Morris needs to do.
Everybody signs with that.
And then when there is conflictagain, you can always go back to
it and say, okay, but Judy, yousaid this is going to be your
part.
Morris, you said, then you can'tsay no, but I never said, okay,
but yes, you actually, this is aplan of action.
(20:51):
And the plan of action justhelps to always reflect that
this is what I was talking.
And then I say, evaluate thatplan, make doubles for everybody
I understand, and then implementit.
Don't just...
Had a lot of talk and we get upthere and we walk away and we
never do it.
We need to improve.
So to me, that is how, and Imust tell you, Judy, I've done
(21:12):
this with organizations.
I remember there's a manager,he's a manager at an
organization way before COVIDeven, that would be what, 2019.
I've done some training there.
And up until today, I hadactually some, coffee with her
the other day.
She said, Maurice, I'm stillusing that whenever there's
conflict in the organization,even when I go and do training.
(21:34):
Those three steps.
And she says it just worksbecause it's not complex.
It's plain and simple.
Check yourself out.
Get yourself ready.
Listen, active your listeningskills and then implement the
plan and work with it.
So that's how I would say toresolve the conflict, those
(21:54):
steps.
SPEAKER_01 (21:55):
That is so good.
And from that, I have a fewquestions or just comments.
But I was thinking how importantour words are when we're with
another person trying to resolveconflict.
And an example that I thought ofwas I was in a meeting one time
and I used the words, I might beable to do that.
(22:18):
The other person took it, Iwould be able to do that.
And assumed I was going to do itwhen I never said that.
But that is what they heard.
And so when we are talking aboutmight and would and should and
all these words, we have toclarify at the end of
(22:39):
conversations.
Now, what are we going to do tomove forward?
And just like you said,reflective listening or active
listening.
Let's clarify what was said in aconversation.
Do you agree with that?
SPEAKER_00 (22:55):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I always say, have theconversation.
In Afrikaans, we say, have theconversation.
So many times people come to meand say, but I've got to see
you.
And I refer them and I say,listen, it's no use.
You just come and talk to me.
Talk to the person.
Have the conversation with thatperson.
(23:16):
Even if you know that otherperson might be Very assertive
because sometimes people areafraid of people that are very
assertive.
Have the conversation becausethat's the only way we're going
to resolve it.
SPEAKER_01 (23:33):
I agree.
SPEAKER_00 (23:35):
I always say, listen, people, I think there's
a reason why God gave us twoears and one mouth.
We need to listen twice as muchas we talk.
And oh my goodness, how manypeople have the challenge of
that.
It is unbelievable.
I love
SPEAKER_01 (23:52):
that.
You know what, Maurice?
I was thinking that when we havethe conversation, or even if we
have a hard conversation, weneed to pray beforehand.
We need to make sure that we aregoing into this conversation,
especially if it's hard, that weare prepared for it.
(24:13):
If you're stressed out, youdon't need to be having a
conversation, especially a hardconversation, but we need to be
prepared ourselves.
before we go into anyconversation for conflict
resolution.
And the verse that comes up tome is in 1 Corinthians 13,
(24:33):
verses 4 through 7, where Godtalks about the fruits of the
Spirit and how we're to havelove.
So I think it's so important tohave love in our conversations,
but especially in conflictresolution.
SPEAKER_00 (24:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
And if I can add to that, ifyou...
Seeking God, that's what Ialways do.
Seeking God first.
In James 1 verse 5, it says, ifany of you lacks wisdom, you
should ask God to givegenerosity to all without
finding fault.
And even while I'm in thisconversation or this
(25:09):
conversation, and then somethingcomes up in myself, I just say,
Holy Spirit, I trust you here.
There's just no way I can dothis.
And without excuse, every timethe Holy Spirit came through for
me.
And that's why I always, thatJames wants to seek wisdom from
God.
And I mean, he knows that otherperson.
(25:30):
He knows what's going on intheir head.
So why not ask him?
Why not ask the Holy Spirit toguide you through this process?
And that's what I encourage thepeople.
Sometimes it's unbelievers, soit's more difficult to help, to
tell them to go and do that.
But for myself, I always makesure then I do what James
Wonders says, go and ask God forwisdom.
SPEAKER_01 (25:53):
Yes, yes.
And because this is afaith-based podcast, most of the
listeners are Christians.
And so my question to you,Marius, is when you have
conflict and it's with someonethat is of the world, and as a
Christian, we're in the worldbut not of the world, But we
(26:14):
have to have conversations withothers, right?
And some of our friends arenon-Christians, and that's okay.
But when those conflicts ariseand the person we're having the
conflict might be of the worldand having their emotions come
(26:34):
up, how do we handle thatwithout our flesh being rising
up too.
How do we back away a little bitand give them space?
SPEAKER_00 (26:45):
I think what comes to my mind the moment you said
that is humility.
But not false humility.
It's that we really just takethat one step back.
And I believe it is in Proverbs11 verse 2 where it says that we
need to embrace humility.
(27:06):
And if I can just quickly findit here, Proverbs 11.2, I just
want to quote it quickly.
It says, when pride comes, thencomes disgrace, but with
humility comes wisdom.
And that's what I mean bysaying, actually, I said it this
morning again, it's sointeresting that a lot of things
(27:27):
that we talk about actuallyhappened this morning in the
training, is that, guys, let usbe the bigger one.
Let us be the one that say,okay, that person, comes from a
place where they don't, first ofall, they don't know about
conflict resolution, and firstof all, they don't have that
grace that the Bible tells us tohave.
So let us be the bigger one.
(27:48):
I'm not saying we give away ourvalues or our standing in
Christ, but Jesus, so manytimes, Jesus was just, look at
him in the Pharisees.
Yes, there was times when he wasstanding firm, but there was
always this humility.
So to answer your question,that's one of the main things
I've experienced withnon-believers is, guys, just
(28:13):
take that step back and seewhere that person is coming
from.
That is so important because wemust remember, and I said it now
and I repeat myself, that persondoesn't know.
It doesn't give them the rightto be like that.
Let's not say that the action iswrong, but let's just And from
(28:34):
there, trust the Holy Spirit,but do it from a place of
humility, being the humble one,and say, okay, and with love,
absolutely with love.
So that's very important to mewhen it comes to the unbeliever.
Meet them where they are intheir journey in life.
And so many times, you just winthe person over.
(28:56):
It's just that something in thespiritual realm just changes the
way that person, That wholething about don't pour fuel on
the fire.
That's exactly what's happeninghere.
Don't give the enemy somethingto make this person to
retaliate.
Do it from a place of humility.
SPEAKER_01 (29:18):
I love that, Mario.
Such words of wisdom.
And that's dealing with theChristian and then an unbeliever
and conflict resolution, I alsofind that in the church, and the
church is not the building, thechurch is us, and there is so
many conflicts.
And even as Christians, we don'twant to sometimes have that
(29:41):
mercy and grace for others.
It's our way or we're just notgoing to be part of the project.
How do we as brothers andsisters deal God says the
harvest is full, and we've gotto tackle these conflicts and
move forward so that we canfurther the kingdom of God.
Tell us, brothers and sisters,when there's conflict, what are
(30:05):
we to do?
How do we do it, Marius?
I
SPEAKER_00 (30:09):
was so hoping you would ask me that question,
because the perfect scripturefor that is in Matthew 18, verse
15, where it says, If yourbrother sins against you, and
that can be if your brother isin conflict with you, and show
him his fault, just between thetwo of you, stay away from
(30:31):
gossiping, stay away fromgetting anybody else into the
picture, because so many times,this conflict is reduced, and
then we go and gossip.
We as Christians, we asbelievers, and we go and gossip.
I go and speak to somebody else,to John about it, and John go
and speak to Mark about it, andback here, we resolve the
conflict.
But now John and Mark on theother side, they still know
(30:53):
about, they don't know about thewhole thing.
And then this is exactly what'sjust between the two of you.
And my Bible actuallyhighlighted that just between
the two of you.
And only after that, then itcontinues to say, if he listens
to you, because that's to me isconflict resolution.
You spoke to him, you talked tohim, this stuff that we were
(31:16):
talking about, this is how theconversation.
If you listen to anyone, then inverse 16 it says, but if you
will not listen, take one or twoalong, then the matter may be
established by a testimony oftwo or three of witnesses.
And this is where I always sayto people, this is where you
bring in like a mediator.
You bring in somebody else thatcan be more objective in this
(31:38):
whole situation and guide youthrough this whole process.
Okay, then the scripture goeson, if you refuse us to listen,
then Tell the church, and if hestill refuses, treat him as if
he would be a pagan.
So if people ask me thatquestion, how should believers,
I say, go and read Matthew 18,verse 16 to 17.
(31:59):
That is what Jesus said.
That's how we should do it.
First, between the two of you.
And I'm telling you, most of thetime, that's where it stops.
And once you bring yourmediator, if you continue like
in verse 16, then it's alsoresolved.
SPEAKER_01 (32:16):
Praise God.
And I have to tell you, Mariusand our listeners, my next
question was mediator and youjust explained it.
And so that was the Holy Spirit.
And so thank you.
And thank you for all of justyour input.
Marius, is there anything elseyou would like to add?
SPEAKER_00 (32:35):
Yeah, I think, Judy, I've actually wrote it here in a
little note when I made somenotes to you.
And I said it earlier on.
and I wrote it in capitalletters, all of it, is I just
want to go back to it, to say,let's always go and meet the
person where they are on theirjourney.
Because every person, whenthere's conflict, is in a
(32:57):
different journey in their life.
Sometimes it's about emotionalstress.
Sometimes it's about stress inlife in general.
Always make sure, always us asthe believer, let us be the
bigger one.
Let us be the one that says,okay, I'll be the listener here.
I'll make sure my two ears arelistening.
And listen to understand and notto react.
(33:20):
That whole thing about activelistening and make sure you
understand.
Repeat back.
And don't, I always say, don'tyou beat back the person's words
exactly to them.
Repeat back as you've heard it.
Then that person can say, no,you know what, Maurice, you
didn't listen.
Or yes, then you can take itfrom there.
So absolutely listen tounderstand.
(33:43):
and not to.
I see that written all overconflict resolution in big red
and in bold.
If that's what I can close offwith, that's what I need.
SPEAKER_01 (33:53):
So many great thoughts, so many great lessons,
and so many great leadershipnuggets, as well as just nuggets
for conflict resolution.
And Marius Andrews, thank you somuch for being with us.
And if somebody wanted to reachout to you, may I link your
information at the end of thispodcast?
SPEAKER_00 (34:15):
Please.
More than welcome.
Please do so.
They're most welcome to do that.
I will do
SPEAKER_01 (34:20):
that.
UNKNOWN (34:21):
Awesome.
SPEAKER_01 (34:22):
So I usually ask whoever is the guest speaker if
they would end us in prayer.
So would you have the honor ofdoing that?
SPEAKER_00 (34:29):
I would love to.
I would love to do that.
Father God, we come to you thisafternoon and I ask, Lord, that
you will just, for everybodythat listens to this podcast,
Lord, and maybe they themselvesas persons are struggling with
this, conflict Lord or they knowof somebody maybe it's family
(34:51):
maybe it's a colleague maybeit's a friend Lord that you in
your biggest wisdom that youwill just guide them in this
whole journey in this wholeprocess Lord you know that
conflict is unavoidable conflictwill be there it cannot as we
say shy away from it will alwaysbe there but give us the godly
(35:11):
wisdom Lord we need your godlywisdom and the only way we're
going to find that is to spendtime with you And let us as the
church, as the body of Christ,as the believers, go out there
and go make a difference andlead people and show them the
grace that you've given usthrough Jesus Christ on how to
(35:33):
resolve conflict in a biblicalway.
And the people will come back tous and say, wow, I just want to
give a testimony of when I triedthis and I tried that in the
biblical way, how the conflictwas resolved.
I ask this and also Lord thatyou will bless each and
everybody that's listening tothis that they will walk away
(35:53):
from the fast God not justbecause of me not because of me
or Judy but because of the graceand the love that you have for
us bless everybody I want to askyou that you'll bless Judy for
hosting this podcast Lord thatyou'll in the future that you
will give her the wisdom and thediscernment and the
understanding and with new ideasand new things to talk about
(36:16):
Lord that you will bless her aswell as a mother as a wife as a
grandmother Lord bless her inevery way of her life in Jesus
name Amen
SPEAKER_01 (36:27):
Amen thank you so much and I want to again thank
you Marius for just sharing yourexpertise with all of us it
means so much and it's so neededin today's world words are just
powerful I thank you I justthank you for spending your time
with us
SPEAKER_00 (36:47):
once again And thank you so much for the opportunity.
I totally appreciate it.
And be blessed.
SPEAKER_01 (36:52):
So friends, I hope to see you next time as we
gather and experience atransformed life with the beauty
of God's love.
You can listen to this podcaston Spotify, Apple, or wherever
you get your podcast fix.
I would love for you to sharethis episode and follow the
gathering so that you won't missany episodes in the future.
(37:14):
And I am so happy that you arewith us on this podcast.
journey.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (00:08):
Hello, my friends, and welcome to the gathering,
Daughters of the Living King,where we seek to know and
experience the love of Christ.
I am your host, Judy Killebrew,and my experience and passion is
in encouraging and empoweringothers in their walk of faith
with our Lord.
(00:28):
Hebrews 10.25 states, And let usnot neglect our meeting
together, as some people do, butencourage one another,
especially now that the day ofhistory return is drawing near.
Hello, my friends.
I am so happy.
I have a wonderful guest, MariusAndrews, who is from South
(00:49):
Africa, but mainly we arefriends.
We serve on YouVersion'sleadership development team
together, and he is just anawesome person.
He's also a mentor and a coachand And he was a missionary.
So there are just so manyfabulous things that Marius has
done with his life and continuesto do.
(01:11):
And so, Marius, we're going tobe talking about the messiness
in avoiding conflict resolution.
And I want to welcome you to ourshow.
Just whatever you want to tellus about yourself.
SPEAKER_00 (01:25):
Hi, Judy, and everybody that's listening.
Thank you so much for theopportunity to be able to share
on your podcast.
I'm really excited about this.
As Judy already mentioned, I'mfrom South Africa.
I'm more in the southern part ofthe country.
I'm living at the coast in avery small town called Great
Brock River.
It's a beautiful town, a bigriver flowing through it.
(01:48):
So I'm really, I'm at my, Iwould always say my peak.
My place where I just, Iabsolutely love it.
I've got two daughters, Mariska,who's the oldest one, and then
Michaela, she's the younger one.
I absolutely love them.
They are my, they really, theymake my world.
(02:11):
I really, truly love them.
And then, one is 35, and theother one is 30 this year.
So, I'm They've moved to thenorthern part of the country, so
I truly miss them, actually,because I only see them about
once a year.
But when I see them, we have somuch fun together.
I grew up in a very conservativekind of Christian home.
(02:35):
And after school, I decided to,because I'm a more passionate,
out-of-the-box kind of person,And so I rejoined another
church, a more Pentecostal kindof church, where I could live
out the way I worship the Lord.
And ever since, I'm still partof it.
Ever since I was small, I alwayshad this heart for people.
(02:56):
And I remember when I was small,I always had this small little
suitcase full of biblical chaps.
And I always handed them out.
I mean, I was like seven yearsold when I walked in the street.
I didn't even exactly know whatwas happening, but I gave people
chaps.
And I remember the people alwayssaid this.
young guy is going to end up inthe mission field one day.
And it did happen.
(03:17):
I ended up in the mission field.
I did some training and most ofmy mission work was in Southern
Africa.
I've done most of the countriesin Southern Africa and also
Madagascar.
My heart was pioneering.
So I plant church planting andthen discipling.
I truly love that very much.
And out of that, the whole thingof youth developed because a lot
(03:39):
of young outreaches Missionoutages used to come in the
shoulders of a lot of people.
And for the last 20 plus years,22 years, I've been full-time in
youth ministry, where I domentoring and coaching.
Also, I'm a qualified careerguidance counselor as well,
where I help young people makingtheir right choices in guidance
(04:03):
in terms of careers.
And yeah, I'm very passionateabout that.
And that's more or less in anutshell what I'm doing.
So I truly love what I'm doing.
I'm passionate about the newgeneration coming up because I
believe at some stage we'regoing to have to stand back and
we're going to have to hand overthe button and jump.
So I'm very excited about that.
SPEAKER_01 (04:25):
Thank you, Maurice.
And yes, thinking about thegeneration coming up, oh my
goodness, these are our futureleaders.
These are the leaders thatChrist is raising up to be
warriors for him.
And when I think about thisgeneration and I just wonder, do
(04:45):
they know how to handle conflictresolution?
Because that's something that'snot really taught with our
generation.
It's not taught, really it's nottaught in any of the schools.
And if you don't have someone asa mentor that can help you
through conflict resolution, wekind of tend to shy away from
(05:06):
it, don't we?
And so when I'm thinking aboutthat and how you mentor these
young people, tell me how do youguide them with conflict
resolution?
And I guess going back to thebasic, what causes conflicts?
SPEAKER_00 (05:25):
Judy, there's actually...
I was thinking about it, andthere's actually quite a long
list, but I'll try and narrow itdown.
My main thing of approaching isI have the privilege of being
part of youth centres.
There's one in the village whereI live, it's called Youth Cafes,
(05:45):
where there's always youngpeople and people that...
They are taught a lot ofdifferent skills, life skills
and everything.
And they're coming and going.
And I always have the exposureof working with them and even
people that I mentor, becauseI'm not just mentioning people
here in South Africa, people inEurope and all over South Africa
that I mentor.
So it's not just here.
(06:06):
And the big thing that causes, Ithink to start off with, that
causes conflict.
And let me, can I just startwith this?
I personally believe there'snothing wrong with conflict.
I actually think it's abeautiful thing because it
causes us to grow.
The main problem comes in whenthey don't know how to resolve
(06:27):
the conflict or how to managethe conflict.
That's where the thing is.
So I just want to put that outthere that I think conflict is a
beautiful thing.
And it will always happen.
We can never get away from itbecause the moment two persons
get into contact with oneanother, there will be conflict
because of differentbackgrounds, different
personalities, and all that kindof things.
So, but yeah.
(06:48):
One of the first things I wantto mention about causes of
conflict is intolerance.
Especially now with thegeneration where we are now, the
focus is so much on myself andthe tolerance is just not there.
I'm not just the young peopleall over the country.
This morning, I was doingtraining on conflict resolution.
(07:09):
That's one of the things thatcame up.
And I could use our country as agreat example.
And it's unfortunate, but it'strue.
People are just strongertolerating one another because
of differences.
So that's one of the things.
(07:30):
And then poor communication,definitely.
Or you can also say it's poorinterpersonal skills where
people don't know how tocommunicate with one another.
And that's usually when I dotraining in conflict resolution,
I start off a week prior to thatwhere I train communication,
different communication skills,and that leads into the whole,
(07:52):
because if you don't havecommunication skills, then
conflict resolution is a verydifficult thing to work on.
Another one is prejudice.
That is also something thatreally causes causes conflict.
And people just know that beforeI even speak to the people, I
(08:13):
think I'm better than thisperson.
I think this, and I think that,and especially if I can use our
country again, as an example, inthe past, things that happened
in our country years ago.
And unfortunately, some of thatis still here.
But just that, you know, beforeyou even have actually learned
to know the person, you alreadymade yourself This is what I
(08:34):
think of you.
And then when it causesconflict, and then when a
conflict resolution, you step inand you start doing it, you
realize, oh my goodness, I wastotally over the top here.
So that's another one.
Making assumptions.
Oh my goodness.
And that is...
I remember I was in a situationwith an organization.
(08:57):
They're doing wonderful work ina town not far away from here,
in a community, a very poorcommunity.
And there was a stage when someof the mentors that was
facilitators as a part of thisorganization, there was just
this assumptions that was madeall the time.
And I'm assuming this and I'massuming that.
(09:19):
And that's when I docommunication training.
I always say, make sure...
what the person has said, havethat, I would call it,
reflective listening.
Make sure you reflect what theother person was saying.
Or there's another word somepeople talk about, active
listening.
I like the word reflectivelistening because you reflect on
what the person was saying.
And I mean, that in itself is asubject that I teach just a
(09:43):
morning on, just on reflectivelistening.
So make sure you know what theother person was saying by
reflecting, say, is this whatyou say?
I just want to confirm this.
And then the person can, andthen it's just such a beautiful
thing.
Even if you go into the processof conflict resolution, it's
part of the active listening.
(10:03):
Then another one is obviouslypersonality conflicts, different
people with different kinds ofpersonalities.
There was some stage where Imade different personality
analysis part of the training.
This is the kind of personalitythat Marius has.
This is the kind of personalitythat Julia has.
This is why she reacts the wayshe reacts.
(10:24):
And now Marius understands herbetter.
So that's something that reallycauses conflict as well.
Then, unfortunately, somethingelse is self-interest.
It's all about me, myself, andI.
Actually, one of the youngstersthis morning said, gave a
perfect example of somethingthat's in their family that's
(10:45):
happening about this person.
It's always about this uncle.
It's always about him.
It's always about self.
And it's just not open fordiscussion and keeps on causing
conflict.
And unfortunately, there istimes when it's just not
working.
And I think if I give a perfectexample, that is where Paul and
(11:07):
Barnabas had the disagreementabout Mark.
And I mean, what was sobeautiful is Barnabas spent a
whole year with Paul, traininghim and equipping him, and it
was like life on life for a yearlong.
And then, I mean, he was likethe mentor for Paul.
And then there came the stagewhere Mark did do some things
(11:29):
that Paul didn't agree with, buthe just said no.
And their ways parted.
The conflict was, that wasconflict.
And They could have both grownout of it, but they just decided
their ways are going to part.
So they do happen.
You can go and read it in Actswhere they talk about it.
(11:49):
So unfortunately, that dohappen.
Then there's another one, lackof empathy.
Not everybody has got empathy.
This morning, there was this guyin the training session.
He's got a very cholericpersonality.
and his way of handling conflictis very direct and he's very he
(12:13):
actually commits he says I don'thave empathy for people and I
mean that's sad to hear so thatis really that's stressful as
well because there's some of hisinterns that are such passionate
people shy people and there'sjust no empathy and that causes
(12:34):
conflict and the difficult to doconflict resolution so that's
more or less in a nutshellthere's so many other examples
that I can give about differentkinds of that causes conflict
but I think the main thing isand I always say we must listen
to understand and not listen toreact and I think that's one big
(12:55):
thing is that people talk to youand then you're already thinking
in the back of your head oh thisis how I'm going to react this
is what I'm going to say whenIt's shorter than the person
say, but you didn't listen to aword that I was saying.
So I think it's important for usto really practice our listening
skills.
I think that's one of the mainthings.
SPEAKER_01 (13:15):
I love that.
And you know what, Maurice, whenyou were talking about
reflective listening and activelistening and just understanding
what the other person is saying,sometimes I think, wow, It's not
so much verbal communicationthese days.
(13:35):
It's a lot of communication viatext or email.
And we can definitely getoffended by what somebody has
written and then go on adifferent tangent and be upset
over something that was notintended at all.
SPEAKER_00 (13:52):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
UNKNOWN (13:55):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (13:56):
What I wanted to add there, Judy, and that's one of
the things, especially, again,with the younger generation,
with social media nowadays, it'sunbelievable how people will
attack one another on socialmedia nowadays.
And I remember, I always use theexample, I remember, and you
will agree with me, when we werestill young, you would not dare
(14:18):
to look in your sister's littlejournal that she has.
That was her little treasure.
And oh my goodness, if you dareto do it, you will be on the red
carpet with your dad.
Now they blast all of that onsocial media.
They attack one another.
It's bullying everything.
So it's not just conflict.
It's just bullying.
And unfortunately, yeah, that'sthe thing that is there.
(14:43):
So I totally agree with youthere.
SPEAKER_01 (14:45):
Yes.
And then I think of, what ourGod says.
And in Proverbs 27, 17, he says,as iron sharpens iron, so one
person sharpens another.
And so I take that verse as notonly to encourage each other,
but we should also not avoidconflict resolution and we
(15:10):
should embrace it and try to getour differences settled and
clarify the issue.
And so when I'm thinking aboutthat, Marius.
What are some of the things wecan do to solve
SPEAKER_00 (15:24):
conflict?
I want to quickly just jump inthere.
We will not be able to reallystop conflict because conflict
will be there.
The thing is what we can do isto resolve that conflict.
And I always say this basically,and I'm not going to go too deep
into this, basically three stepsthat you can follow.
(15:46):
And Tip number one, I call itself-check.
Before you even go and sit downwith that people, that's when,
well, for instance, when Imediate, we are being a mediator
when a mediator is called in.
I say, listen, guys, even beforeI'm going to come here, each
individual needs to go and do aself-check.
You need to make sure that Iwill be emotionally ready for
(16:07):
this.
Am I willing to resolve thisconflict?
Because it's no use you come andsit there and have this
discussion or this meeting toresolve it.
but you don't want to be there.
And I can give example onexample of that.
So you need to do thatself-check, sort yourself out.
If you are too angry or upsetbecause of offense or something
(16:27):
said, tell the other party, say,listen, give me maybe an hour or
give me this afternoon or a day,but I just need to get myself
together.
But, and I always make this, butcapital letters with
exclamation.
You cannot just say, give mesome time to work this out.
because then it's never going tohappen.
The other person needs to putdown and say, listen, okay, but
(16:52):
when?
Will it be this afternoon?
Will it be Thursday morning, orwill it be next Wednesday?
There needs to be a time limitand say, listen, okay, this is
the time you're going to need,depending on the seriousness of
it.
And then there's three rules, westill have self-check, that you
need to ask or commit yourselfto before you go into this
(17:14):
conflict resolution, step numbertwo, is that you're going to
tell yourself, I'm not going tofight and I'm not going to
argue.
Because conflict resolution isnot about arguing or blaming or
anything like that.
We need to focus on the problemat hand.
The next thing you need to askyourself, will I be honest?
It's no use you come there andyou sugarcoat the situation or
(17:37):
you're trying this.
You need to be honest.
This is what I experienced.
This is what I felt.
And then, Listen withoutinterrupting.
If you can't go in there, eachperson needs to tell their
story.
Once you've sorted that out andonce you are sure, then you can
say, okay, guys, I'm ready.
Let's do it.
And that's where step two comesin, which I call honest
(18:00):
communication.
This is where the actualconflict resolution is taking
place.
And this mainly, absolutely,this is when you need to
practice your listening skillsagain.
that reflective listening, thatactive listening.
And as I said, we can standstill with that whole thing, how
it's happened.
(18:20):
And I always say, listen to whatthe other person is saying and
then reply, okay, this is myexperience.
This is what I heard you saying.
Make sure.
And then I call it iMessages.
When you go into thisresolution, say, Judy, this is
what I experienced.
(18:41):
This is what I felt you weresaying.
Don't go in there and say, ohyeah, but that's what you said
and that's what you said.
No, because immediately you'reputting that other person,
you're making fire there andyou're causing that.
No, this is what you heard.
Because many times that's notwhat the other person meant.
It's just you misunderstood thething.
(19:02):
So if you come with I messages,this is what I experienced, this
is what I felt.
Then the other person say, butMaurice, that's not what I mean.
That's not what I said.
This is actually what I said.
And sometimes the conflict isresolved right there.
It doesn't even go to stepthree.
It's resolved because it was notmisunderstood.
There was, I assume this is whatyou said.
(19:23):
No, Maurice, you didn't listen.
This is what I actually said.
So use iMessages.
Then the next thing is don'tfall into the trap where you
say, oh, who's right?
Don't try and find out who'sright.
It's not about who's right andwho's wrong in the situation.
It's all about what is thesituation that happened, what
(19:44):
caused the situation.
And then once that is sortedout, everybody said the same,
you reacted on what I said andthis, you said, everybody heard
and everything was discussed.
Then we get to step three, whichis called the find a solution.
And this is where you go andsay, okay, what can each person
do to improve the situation, thething that caused this whole
(20:07):
conflict.
This is what Marius is going todo.
This is what Judy is going todo.
Then usually there's two orthree solutions on the table.
Then you brainstorm everysolution and you find the one
that's the most fairest.
And then there needs to be aplan of action.
And sometimes when it's a veryserious thing where I need to
mediate and it's not justbetween two people, I'll make
(20:29):
sure there's a written plan ofaction.
Okay?
Because this is what Judy needsto do.
This is what Morris needs to do.
Everybody signs with that.
And then when there is conflictagain, you can always go back to
it and say, okay, but Judy, yousaid this is going to be your
part.
Morris, you said, then you can'tsay no, but I never said, okay,
but yes, you actually, this is aplan of action.
(20:51):
And the plan of action justhelps to always reflect that
this is what I was talking.
And then I say, evaluate thatplan, make doubles for everybody
I understand, and then implementit.
Don't just...
Had a lot of talk and we get upthere and we walk away and we
never do it.
We need to improve.
So to me, that is how, and Imust tell you, Judy, I've done
(21:12):
this with organizations.
I remember there's a manager,he's a manager at an
organization way before COVIDeven, that would be what, 2019.
I've done some training there.
And up until today, I hadactually some, coffee with her
the other day.
She said, Maurice, I'm stillusing that whenever there's
conflict in the organization,even when I go and do training.
(21:34):
Those three steps.
And she says it just worksbecause it's not complex.
It's plain and simple.
Check yourself out.
Get yourself ready.
Listen, active your listeningskills and then implement the
plan and work with it.
So that's how I would say toresolve the conflict, those
(21:54):
steps.
SPEAKER_01 (21:55):
That is so good.
And from that, I have a fewquestions or just comments.
But I was thinking how importantour words are when we're with
another person trying to resolveconflict.
And an example that I thought ofwas I was in a meeting one time
and I used the words, I might beable to do that.
(22:18):
The other person took it, Iwould be able to do that.
And assumed I was going to do itwhen I never said that.
But that is what they heard.
And so when we are talking aboutmight and would and should and
all these words, we have toclarify at the end of
(22:39):
conversations.
Now, what are we going to do tomove forward?
And just like you said,reflective listening or active
listening.
Let's clarify what was said in aconversation.
Do you agree with that?
SPEAKER_00 (22:55):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I always say, have theconversation.
In Afrikaans, we say, have theconversation.
So many times people come to meand say, but I've got to see
you.
And I refer them and I say,listen, it's no use.
You just come and talk to me.
Talk to the person.
Have the conversation with thatperson.
(23:16):
Even if you know that otherperson might be Very assertive
because sometimes people areafraid of people that are very
assertive.
Have the conversation becausethat's the only way we're going
to resolve it.
SPEAKER_01 (23:33):
I agree.
SPEAKER_00 (23:35):
I always say, listen, people, I think there's
a reason why God gave us twoears and one mouth.
We need to listen twice as muchas we talk.
And oh my goodness, how manypeople have the challenge of
that.
It is unbelievable.
I love
SPEAKER_01 (23:52):
that.
You know what, Maurice?
I was thinking that when we havethe conversation, or even if we
have a hard conversation, weneed to pray beforehand.
We need to make sure that we aregoing into this conversation,
especially if it's hard, that weare prepared for it.
(24:13):
If you're stressed out, youdon't need to be having a
conversation, especially a hardconversation, but we need to be
prepared ourselves.
before we go into anyconversation for conflict
resolution.
And the verse that comes up tome is in 1 Corinthians 13,
(24:33):
verses 4 through 7, where Godtalks about the fruits of the
Spirit and how we're to havelove.
So I think it's so important tohave love in our conversations,
but especially in conflictresolution.
SPEAKER_00 (24:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
And if I can add to that, ifyou...
Seeking God, that's what Ialways do.
Seeking God first.
In James 1 verse 5, it says, ifany of you lacks wisdom, you
should ask God to givegenerosity to all without
finding fault.
And even while I'm in thisconversation or this
(25:09):
conversation, and then somethingcomes up in myself, I just say,
Holy Spirit, I trust you here.
There's just no way I can dothis.
And without excuse, every timethe Holy Spirit came through for
me.
And that's why I always, thatJames wants to seek wisdom from
God.
And I mean, he knows that otherperson.
(25:30):
He knows what's going on intheir head.
So why not ask him?
Why not ask the Holy Spirit toguide you through this process?
And that's what I encourage thepeople.
Sometimes it's unbelievers, soit's more difficult to help, to
tell them to go and do that.
But for myself, I always makesure then I do what James
Wonders says, go and ask God forwisdom.
SPEAKER_01 (25:53):
Yes, yes.
And because this is afaith-based podcast, most of the
listeners are Christians.
And so my question to you,Marius, is when you have
conflict and it's with someonethat is of the world, and as a
Christian, we're in the worldbut not of the world, But we
(26:14):
have to have conversations withothers, right?
And some of our friends arenon-Christians, and that's okay.
But when those conflicts ariseand the person we're having the
conflict might be of the worldand having their emotions come
(26:34):
up, how do we handle thatwithout our flesh being rising
up too.
How do we back away a little bitand give them space?
SPEAKER_00 (26:45):
I think what comes to my mind the moment you said
that is humility.
But not false humility.
It's that we really just takethat one step back.
And I believe it is in Proverbs11 verse 2 where it says that we
need to embrace humility.
(27:06):
And if I can just quickly findit here, Proverbs 11.2, I just
want to quote it quickly.
It says, when pride comes, thencomes disgrace, but with
humility comes wisdom.
And that's what I mean bysaying, actually, I said it this
morning again, it's sointeresting that a lot of things
(27:27):
that we talk about actuallyhappened this morning in the
training, is that, guys, let usbe the bigger one.
Let us be the one that say,okay, that person, comes from a
place where they don't, first ofall, they don't know about
conflict resolution, and firstof all, they don't have that
grace that the Bible tells us tohave.
So let us be the bigger one.
(27:48):
I'm not saying we give away ourvalues or our standing in
Christ, but Jesus, so manytimes, Jesus was just, look at
him in the Pharisees.
Yes, there was times when he wasstanding firm, but there was
always this humility.
So to answer your question,that's one of the main things
I've experienced withnon-believers is, guys, just
(28:13):
take that step back and seewhere that person is coming
from.
That is so important because wemust remember, and I said it now
and I repeat myself, that persondoesn't know.
It doesn't give them the rightto be like that.
Let's not say that the action iswrong, but let's just And from
(28:34):
there, trust the Holy Spirit,but do it from a place of
humility, being the humble one,and say, okay, and with love,
absolutely with love.
So that's very important to mewhen it comes to the unbeliever.
Meet them where they are intheir journey in life.
And so many times, you just winthe person over.
(28:56):
It's just that something in thespiritual realm just changes the
way that person, That wholething about don't pour fuel on
the fire.
That's exactly what's happeninghere.
Don't give the enemy somethingto make this person to
retaliate.
Do it from a place of humility.
SPEAKER_01 (29:18):
I love that, Mario.
Such words of wisdom.
And that's dealing with theChristian and then an unbeliever
and conflict resolution, I alsofind that in the church, and the
church is not the building, thechurch is us, and there is so
many conflicts.
And even as Christians, we don'twant to sometimes have that
(29:41):
mercy and grace for others.
It's our way or we're just notgoing to be part of the project.
How do we as brothers andsisters deal God says the
harvest is full, and we've gotto tackle these conflicts and
move forward so that we canfurther the kingdom of God.
Tell us, brothers and sisters,when there's conflict, what are
(30:05):
we to do?
How do we do it, Marius?
I
SPEAKER_00 (30:09):
was so hoping you would ask me that question,
because the perfect scripturefor that is in Matthew 18, verse
15, where it says, If yourbrother sins against you, and
that can be if your brother isin conflict with you, and show
him his fault, just between thetwo of you, stay away from
(30:31):
gossiping, stay away fromgetting anybody else into the
picture, because so many times,this conflict is reduced, and
then we go and gossip.
We as Christians, we asbelievers, and we go and gossip.
I go and speak to somebody else,to John about it, and John go
and speak to Mark about it, andback here, we resolve the
conflict.
But now John and Mark on theother side, they still know
(30:53):
about, they don't know about thewhole thing.
And then this is exactly what'sjust between the two of you.
And my Bible actuallyhighlighted that just between
the two of you.
And only after that, then itcontinues to say, if he listens
to you, because that's to me isconflict resolution.
You spoke to him, you talked tohim, this stuff that we were
(31:16):
talking about, this is how theconversation.
If you listen to anyone, then inverse 16 it says, but if you
will not listen, take one or twoalong, then the matter may be
established by a testimony oftwo or three of witnesses.
And this is where I always sayto people, this is where you
bring in like a mediator.
You bring in somebody else thatcan be more objective in this
(31:38):
whole situation and guide youthrough this whole process.
Okay, then the scripture goeson, if you refuse us to listen,
then Tell the church, and if hestill refuses, treat him as if
he would be a pagan.
So if people ask me thatquestion, how should believers,
I say, go and read Matthew 18,verse 16 to 17.
(31:59):
That is what Jesus said.
That's how we should do it.
First, between the two of you.
And I'm telling you, most of thetime, that's where it stops.
And once you bring yourmediator, if you continue like
in verse 16, then it's alsoresolved.
SPEAKER_01 (32:16):
Praise God.
And I have to tell you, Mariusand our listeners, my next
question was mediator and youjust explained it.
And so that was the Holy Spirit.
And so thank you.
And thank you for all of justyour input.
Marius, is there anything elseyou would like to add?
SPEAKER_00 (32:35):
Yeah, I think, Judy, I've actually wrote it here in a
little note when I made somenotes to you.
And I said it earlier on.
and I wrote it in capitalletters, all of it, is I just
want to go back to it, to say,let's always go and meet the
person where they are on theirjourney.
Because every person, whenthere's conflict, is in a
(32:57):
different journey in their life.
Sometimes it's about emotionalstress.
Sometimes it's about stress inlife in general.
Always make sure, always us asthe believer, let us be the
bigger one.
Let us be the one that says,okay, I'll be the listener here.
I'll make sure my two ears arelistening.
And listen to understand and notto react.
(33:20):
That whole thing about activelistening and make sure you
understand.
Repeat back.
And don't, I always say, don'tyou beat back the person's words
exactly to them.
Repeat back as you've heard it.
Then that person can say, no,you know what, Maurice, you
didn't listen.
Or yes, then you can take itfrom there.
So absolutely listen tounderstand.
(33:43):
and not to.
I see that written all overconflict resolution in big red
and in bold.
If that's what I can close offwith, that's what I need.
SPEAKER_01 (33:53):
So many great thoughts, so many great lessons,
and so many great leadershipnuggets, as well as just nuggets
for conflict resolution.
And Marius Andrews, thank you somuch for being with us.
And if somebody wanted to reachout to you, may I link your
information at the end of thispodcast?
SPEAKER_00 (34:15):
Please.
More than welcome.
Please do so.
They're most welcome to do that.
I will do
SPEAKER_01 (34:20):
that.
UNKNOWN (34:21):
Awesome.
SPEAKER_01 (34:22):
So I usually ask whoever is the guest speaker if
they would end us in prayer.
So would you have the honor ofdoing that?
SPEAKER_00 (34:29):
I would love to.
I would love to do that.
Father God, we come to you thisafternoon and I ask, Lord, that
you will just, for everybodythat listens to this podcast,
Lord, and maybe they themselvesas persons are struggling with
this, conflict Lord or they knowof somebody maybe it's family
(34:51):
maybe it's a colleague maybeit's a friend Lord that you in
your biggest wisdom that youwill just guide them in this
whole journey in this wholeprocess Lord you know that
conflict is unavoidable conflictwill be there it cannot as we
say shy away from it will alwaysbe there but give us the godly
(35:11):
wisdom Lord we need your godlywisdom and the only way we're
going to find that is to spendtime with you And let us as the
church, as the body of Christ,as the believers, go out there
and go make a difference andlead people and show them the
grace that you've given usthrough Jesus Christ on how to
(35:33):
resolve conflict in a biblicalway.
And the people will come back tous and say, wow, I just want to
give a testimony of when I triedthis and I tried that in the
biblical way, how the conflictwas resolved.
I ask this and also Lord thatyou will bless each and
everybody that's listening tothis that they will walk away
(35:53):
from the fast God not justbecause of me not because of me
or Judy but because of the graceand the love that you have for
us bless everybody I want to askyou that you'll bless Judy for
hosting this podcast Lord thatyou'll in the future that you
will give her the wisdom and thediscernment and the
understanding and with new ideasand new things to talk about
(36:16):
Lord that you will bless her aswell as a mother as a wife as a
grandmother Lord bless her inevery way of her life in Jesus
name Amen
SPEAKER_01 (36:27):
Amen thank you so much and I want to again thank
you Marius for just sharing yourexpertise with all of us it
means so much and it's so neededin today's world words are just
powerful I thank you I justthank you for spending your time
with us
SPEAKER_00 (36:47):
once again And thank you so much for the opportunity.
I totally appreciate it.
And be blessed.
SPEAKER_01 (36:52):
So friends, I hope to see you next time as we
gather and experience atransformed life with the beauty
of God's love.
You can listen to this podcaston Spotify, Apple, or wherever
you get your podcast fix.
I would love for you to sharethis episode and follow the
gathering so that you won't missany episodes in the future.
(37:14):
And I am so happy that you arewith us on this podcast.
journey.
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