Cow Horse Full Contact - Part 1

Trainers and host's of "Cow Horse Full Contact", Chris Dawson & Russell Dilday join the podcast! Chris and Russell discuss a variety of topics including history, horse training, the evolution of the sport, and much more. Part one of two.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
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Chance conradus Are you freaking serious?It's can rise. This is the Gauge

(03:05):
and I am Chancen on this excellentepisode in the podcast, we have got
the dudes from Cowhorse Full Contact,Russell Dilday and Chris Dawson. This is
part one. Check it out?Is it now? Is it now?
No? What about when we kickin? That's the one about us?
Yeah, well so I could barelyhear you. Oh well I can adjust

(03:28):
too, So yeah it's all good. That's way better. We're good.
Yeah. Yeah, we've always donethe headphones because it just it just helps
a lot. Right, Well,we can't hear nothing, nothing in mind,
so you can't hear anything. Holyshit, you're an amateur. Are
they coming unplugged or what? Therewe go? Oh yeah, I got

(03:51):
you baby on me. Yeah,and I don't need to be that close
to that one, not to thatone, Russell. Doesn't matter what Mike
you put salon. It's like laserinto the microphone. Pow, crazy hearing
me. I can walk over thereand sell on the couch and do one.

(04:12):
Hey he was literally when we didthe girls there at the Cowboy Channel
the other day. He wasn't evenon a mic. What girls did you
guys talk to after Matters left?Well they were, it was in between.
Yeah, it was Cheyne and Taylorand one more, the one,
the married one. Yeah, ohstupid, I know. I guess it

(04:36):
was a decent name to remember,too, missed it? Mm hmm,
it'll come to me. Well,well, guys, you've been talking to
our team about us doing an episodefor I mean it was a long time
ago. Yeah, yeah, youdid look a little different, yeah,
more hair. It was a realweird time. Yeah yeah. Yeah.

(04:57):
They were teaching about socialism in schoolback then with a negative connotation. Yeah,
they did it. Wasn't so positive. Yeah, there was no By
God, I think this will work. This future. It wasn't the alternative
the future like it is now.Yeah, it was okay to eat it.
It was like, hey, thisis why you didn't. Yeah,
it was like, you guys know, this is all theory, right,

(05:18):
apparently not failed theory. Yeah,we've been over and over. God,
I hate that patriarchy though, Jesusfucking white man. They're everywhere. Just
I just don't get it. Imean, you can't go to a goddamn
horse show and not see all whitemen. It is. I'm sick of
it. It's exhausting. I mean, I can't believe that white No,

(05:45):
not at all, not where yourhat, not where your cowboy hat sits
anyway. Yeah, well I've beenwearing a straw hat that has more holes
in it, so I can.It's a good idea. It looks like
one of those Star Trek creatures.He's got stars around his head in the
summertime. Yeah, you know,that's one thing I have literally never watched.
I never watched a second of StarTrek before, really the movie Star
Trek, Star Wars. I mean, I've seen the Star Wars, but

(06:09):
I've not seen Star Trek movie waspretty good with Pine the latest one.
I would see that Pine guy.I remember that it was a little when
they were like they were trying tosave the beach whale or something. It
was a long time. Yeah,that was a Star Trek. That was
wives chatter oh way back. Yeahyeah, I mean, you guys continue

(06:29):
to date yourself every time. Like, man, I remember when when socialism
was bad? Was that reagant?I think it was before that Methuselah war
shore pants? Yeah, yeah,you remember when Genghis Khan was when I
started, he was bass. Sowhat he came up with all of it?
If he didn't he didn't make aturn, he cut their head off

(06:51):
of his sword. Well yeah,I mean, you guys mind. I
know we've been we've been chatting forfor quite a while with out microphones,
but just just a quick introduction.I mean, you guys obviously have a
podcast called cow Horse Full Contact,which is a perfect explanation what you guys
do for a living, but certainlynot the most impressive thing about you guys.

(07:12):
I've heard it just kind of waywe kill a little extra time that
we have on our hands. Well, we thought that the funnest thing is
sitting around in the tack room havinga drink and telling the story. So
we figured just record that. Yeah, and sometimes it works, Yeah,

(07:32):
sometimes it doesn't. Yeah, whatdoes that say about Western culture that all
the good shows have to do withalcohol? I mean we make everybody stop
at the bar on the way,and you guys are about drinking after the
shows. I mean just horse trainersare alcoholics. Well, you have to
be to stay in it, youbecause if you're sobered up, you leave.

(07:54):
Yeah, you left. It's likea bad marriage. Sobered up,
you left. That's true. Now, how your podcasting back to drinking?
All true? Yeah, yeah,it's true. The funny thing is it's
got a ship ton of horses thatneed ridden now too, So it came
back into it. It's just weren'tgoing to do that. I said,
I wasn't. But things have changedquite a bit. Your sister, your

(08:18):
sister suffered in my sister, nono, no, bad business partners and
bad decisions and continuing to just partakeand trying to breed horses with people,
and next thing you know, you'relike, holy shit, how did this
happen? I mean it was justthree and now it's twenty one and we

(08:39):
don't know what they are yet.Yeah, no, got it sucks.
Yeah, find me one person whohasn't fallen into the whole of you know,
I'm not going to get above ten, who hasn't said that you can't
put numbers on it. No,you know, we so my wife and
I own the bulk of a stallion, and so in this breeding business.

(09:00):
When we started, it's like,we need to have some mayors so we
can breed some indentories. We canhave something to sell to customers or people
that want to come find a cultby traveling Jones. All right, that's
terrible idea. Don't do it.Like now, we breed if the if
people don't know the mayor, likeby their barn name, like in our

(09:20):
industry, we don't bother breeding them. Right, Like if it's not I
mean, if you were in thebarrel horse barrel world, if it wasn't
sister you know, or you knowwhat I mean. If it's not that
one, you ain't breeding it.Don't do it. And so then those
babies you're assuring yourself that they're andit allows you to keep your numbers down.

(09:41):
Yeah, because it's hard to getembryos out of those mayors. So
that's kind of how we tried keepour numbers it up. Well, yeah,
the the mayors, because it didn'tused to be that way, especially
not in the barrel horse world.But now it's like people are more picky
about that than they are almost thestuds, because almost every decent stud's paid
up in the incentives and out.Everybody is looking at the bottom end for

(10:01):
everything and they don't even give ashit how well it's bred. Like if
you if you have a mirror thatwas bred to the nis that say,
got hurt, that'd be a perfectbroodmare if it was ten years ago.
Now it's like, it's still agood broodmare if you think about it logically.
But now they got Now you gotto go prove that next generation yourself,
and that only takes five years.It's only five years. You can

(10:22):
only do that a handful of freakingtimes before you look like that. We
were just talking about how quickly thehorseman just will aid you. Yeah,
it wasn't that quick. It didn'tfeel that quick to you. It's been
forever. Yeah. Well, Ithink one good thing for our listeners would

(10:43):
be if each of you guys,just do a little introduction, just everybody,
all right. This is Chris Dawson. He married Sarah Dawson for what
reason I have no. I stilldon't know why she did it. Free
ticket. She's got that golden ticketto heaven. That's what it is.
She does because she saved him fromwhat he was. It was, I

(11:07):
mean it was insane. Yeah,I like this thing where you introduce him
and he introduces but yeah, whatdid she save you from? Exactly himself?
Himself, his ability to drink,ride, smoke, drink, ride,
smoke and repeat with a sprinkle ofsleep, I mean a sprinkle.

(11:30):
I'm no early night person and Idon't really get up late. And we
stalled next to them before this isa BC a BS before Sarah, And
he was there when I left,and he was there when I got back.
Every night. They even had somelittle interludes where they went out and
got some roping stairs in the buckingshoots in the dark. Yeah, and

(11:52):
this thing happen on a bigger job. No, we were at it pretty
hard. Yeah, my wife definitelysaved me, yeah for sure. And
then and there's Russell. Russell isa was it fourteen time World's Greatest Horseman
Champion. There were only three peoplein it were not. He's got the

(12:20):
coolest picture that maybe one of thecoolest pictures I've ever seen. It's on
the cover a horse and rider,and then the horse and rider. It's
him like roping a cow and apasture with no bridle on on his World's
Greatest horse like it is roping acow. It was not everybody has that

(12:41):
picture. Wow, that's kind ofamazing. I mean, because that was
back when all that smoke came outof those cameras and they took how did
they capture that? Hey, youdon't know how many cattle we ran at
that camera blurry do it again?You don't know how many precious minerals we
used to capture those photos out ablack powder. Yeah, But I mean

(13:05):
that is one thing. You guysare two of two of the of the
best at what you do, whichI think has a lot of a lot
of merit and means you guys canspeak on a lot of things in regards
to the worst world and you know, just new American things really interesting becaus
are and that your wife's in thatas well, Riley was telling me,
And that's you know, i'd becurious to know what you guys think about

(13:26):
that, along with a bunch morebullshit. But uh yeah, no,
I like I say, we're prettyexcited about it. I'm really excited about
that. I told my wife onthe way we were hit in the truck
this morning. I says, I'mexcited about it. I'm excited about it.
Even if I don't make the topfive, I says, I will
be at the back gate for that. That's bull He's gonna be way more
excited, he makes I'm gonna beway more excited if I'm in the top

(13:46):
five. Yes, but I willbe excited anyway even if I'm not in
the top five, because I willbe at the back gate for sure.
It will be It's I don't evenknow what it's gonna be, but it's
gonna be. It's gonna be thebiggest thing that we've ever in our industry's
ever seen. Yeah. Yeah,such a step up for us for the
cow horse to get in that crowdin that setting. Just more and more

(14:07):
and more exposure, Like the exposureis overrunning us. Forever it was just
us doing it going along, andnow I can't believe how many new people
are coming, and how fast.Every time you think that you've reached a
new peak on entries, the nextyear it goes up for sure. Yeah,

(14:28):
the National Rain, Cowhors and theSnouffbitfaturity used to be such a west
coast of vent and the snaff Bitwas there at at Reno, and I
think there was a ton of therewas a ton of struggle moving it from
Reno, like it was ridiculous.But since it's moved to Fort Worth,
it's just been every year it's justbeen exponential growth. And then with the

(14:52):
exposure that we've gotten with the CowboyChannel, with all the stuff Taylor's been
doing with Teton Ridge and all theirstuff, they're adding to it. I
mean, it's just I say,it's it's a lot fast, is what
it is. It's a growing pains. I don't even know if we're really
feeling the growing pains yet. Yeah, yeah, I mean it. I
was a little shocked to hear youknow. Well, I guess with Titon

(15:15):
Ridge taking over the American I guessit made sense. But I think it
caught a lot of people by surprise. It certainly did me. And I'm
really since it'll be their second year, the first year of their American it
was a little rough. You know, they did some things like black barrels
with black banners, and you know, you saw that there were problems with
that in those events. But theymoved it to Globe Life, which were
already did an NFAR and Global Lifeand it went down awesome. I think

(15:37):
it's going to be such a bettervenue than what you know at and T
was, yeah, I don't havemuch opinion on that. I haven't performed
an event there. I went andsaw the nffar there, and i've last
year was the first time I've beento the American to watch, and I
don't know. It seems like onthe Book of Faces, it seems like
the rodeo contestants were excited about itmoving they are well because most of them

(16:00):
who will be there will have alreadybeen there and it's not that weird split
up set up. And like forbarrel racers ropers, like there's all this
blind you know, blind access thatyou get, right, So like I
got my sister, she's ran atthe American pretty much every year since it
started, and she's like, there'sjust no good freaking way to get in
there, and start, and youknow, there's not a good place to

(16:22):
have your horses at at and T. You're on pavement, crossing busy roads
on pavement, and at Global,life's totally different, even though it's just
across the street. So h yeahit is in the city there. Yeah,
it's right. I mean they're rightnext to each other. Yeah,
I do remember it the American thinkingwell, especially watching the barrel horses day,
the way they come in there andlike they were having to run.
They had the tractor I think parkedright behind it. They did like running

(16:45):
straight out. I'm like, man, if I was a horse running at
that right now, it's really hardto figure out what in the world,
Oh you saw it though, theywere like nope, right like ent and
were like no thanks. It's amazingtoo, what the difference will do,
Like when they hung that Yellowstone sign, like we'd been into John justin all
week it's noaff a bit a coupleof years ago and they did the filming
for the Yellowstone and Out of theBlue And I take some of the blame

(17:08):
here because I was the first horseout. But I can go over there
and we're gonna run in and Ilook down there and there's a new banner
that hadn't been there all week.Like then, horses have been in and
out of that arena every day forten days, and now we're going to
kick them in here where they've alreadyshown. The cow has already come out
down there, and now there's thisbig black monster hanging right there where they
know there's something coming out at him. Anyway, and it was ridiculous.

(17:32):
I'm like, well, I guesswe'll just go. Well, after I
started, then everybody else had tokind of continue, and it was it
was a shit show to say theleast. I mean, like I say,
it's just weird house. Those thingspeople don't, you know, especially
those some of those production companies,well they don't think it's not it's not
their business to think about what thathorse is thinking there. It's like,

(17:52):
you know, it's it's marketing,marketing over everything when you're down with production
companies on literally anything. Yeah,that was shockey now that night. And
then Taylor come up and paid everybodythose final winners purse. That was only
premier company that ever cared that much. Yeah, if you didn't like Yellowstone,
you liked it that night anyway.Yeah, Yeah, I mean it

(18:15):
seems like he's a pretty honorable guywhen it comes to his involvement, and
you know in the industry, wellhe's damn sure done some stuff for We
had a friend that got cancer,phone cancer, real bad, and uh
so we did an auction at apre fraterity that we put on My wife
and I had a friend Jake Grellat to Vegas in sha and Taylor got

(18:41):
on and donated time on the setin Yellowstone. Whoever buys the slot will
be in Yellowstone and get to meetall of the main stars in the in
the show. And uh just likewent out there, gone on cell phone,
cranked out a video about it wasa sweet video and helped us sell

(19:04):
it and raise that money for thatguy. And you know, Taylor's living
in a world that yeah, heraised quite a lot. Yeah, Um,
he everyone wants a piece of histime. He's in a he's at
a level where there is no thereis no downtime. It's just what you're

(19:26):
going to spend your time on,not win it win, You're gonna spend
your time. And to take thetime to go and help us with that
said quite a bit to me.And he's even lately come and helped again.
Our friend Todd was having some troubleat the hospital he was at,
and Taylor come and helped a gameget to another hospital, get some more,

(19:48):
get some more help. And Imean those kind of guys got everybody
pulling at him to tear away andgo do that. It says a little
something. Yeah, yeah, that'sgood context because I mean him miss the
Teton Ridge thing. I mean,they've been a little it's died down a
little bit, but gosh, dangwhen they came on seeing they started with
you guys right before they got involvedin our ship. But I mean the
things that people were saying, theWestern industry's gone, they're binding it all

(20:11):
all down. He he donated toHillary Clinton, He did all this,
and I'm just like, God,you guys don't understand a gift horse when
it's hit right in the mouth.You They could pour this into anything,
and they're choosing to do it forthis industry. Yeah. Well maybe,
and maybe they're right, maybe that'sall going to go that way, But
he's a heck of a lot nicerabout No. They have people that are

(20:33):
trying to take it away from us, so whatever. Yeah, yeah,
I mean at least they're investing init first a little bit. Yeah,
just trying to mouth kill us.Yeah, they're usually just trying to kill
us. Yeah, they really are. I mean it's real bad. It
reminds me that, you know,I've got some friends too, and if
you handed them a gold bar,they'd complain about how heavy it was,

(20:56):
you know, and so god,yeah, I mean got the same deal.
Like, shoot far, I mean, they're doing so much, you
know, Like you say, Itry to remain cautiously optimistic that everybody's on
the up and up and it's allfor the greater good. Yeah, like
I say, whatever it is,we're gonna ride this wave and ride his
pony washing bucks anyway. Yeah.Yeah, it's sure, Um, it

(21:19):
has it's it's done so much goodfor us with just the exposure and you
know, with the COVID thing andthe lockdown, a lot of people change
their whole mindset on life when thingslike that happen. Country, western music
and blue jeans go through the roof. The Western lifestyle goes through the roof
when they start locking you down andmaking your instrums, interest rates high and

(21:44):
all that stuff. When the troublestarts happening, and well Taylor comes out
with that show. It's still isthis season five. I don't think it's
started. Yeah, but they're they'regoing into season five still leading. I
mean, there's been no Westerns foreverforever, and even the ones there has
been are like who gives a ship? Come on, yeah, you guys,

(22:07):
that's your favorite? He was,yeah, I don't know when are
we going to? Yea, Sohe hits it right on the head,
right in the middle of all thatand blows the whole Western industry up.
It doesn't matter where you go,it doesn't matter bell racing, team,
rope and cow horse rain and it'sall blowing up. And that had a

(22:30):
big They gave every almost every disciplinea little bit of screen time in that
show too. Yeah, yeah,it's And there's another thing, why does
he need to do that for he'snumber one Western, he's a number one
show in the nation. He doesn'tneed to make time to put all of
us in there and help us allout. And that's all it's doing.
Yeah, I mean last I thinkit was last season, there was like

(22:52):
in the middle of the plot,just all of a sudden, we're just
gonna have a break and we're justgonna work horses for a solid five minutes.
Oh, I'm in a couple episodes. You know what if you actually
liked the show and I man,I didn't watch the show until like all
four seasons were out. In fact, the way people on and I was
like, that was great. Inever saw it, guys, I'm lying,
I haven't watched it, but uhbut because we had certain cast people

(23:15):
on or whatever, and was like, yeah, okay, amazing performance.
What's their name? But it reallywas excellent, and like, yeah,
every other every other episode it almostgot annoying. It's like, here they
are again running cows down the fencer. Here they are again team roping for
no goddamn reasons. There's Bobby Steineragain bucking horses, like you know what
I mean. It's like, butit was really kind of awesome for them

(23:38):
to just continue to pay homage tothe to Everybody's Way Alive. Yeah,
yeah, for no reason, becauseyou know, all that thing is is
Dallas. Yeah all over recreated itis Dallas. You knew what it was.

(24:00):
I actually didn't have a TV whenDallas was Yeah, it's Charlie Chapin
and that Will Rogers was the technicalconsulting on that show. But they could
just stick with the straight drama.They don't need to have to try and
put that. They could have putan extra commercial in there and made some
money. M hmm. That's true, all true. So yeah, I'm

(24:23):
glad that they're trying to bring someauthenticity to it. Yeah, because some
of those bucking horses that are inthere, it's pretty dang good. Yeah
yeah, yeah, but I meanthat's like bringing in real cow horse people
or real rodeo people instead of doingthe camera angles and signed to Hollywood,
and they're just like here, let'sjust bring let's just bring the res in

(24:45):
and let them do it. Twojumps, it's over. Yeah, they
actually shows up and I like thatthey kill everybody because some people just need
to die. It's so stupid.It's not gonna they're not gonna gain better.
Just get it over. Yeah,tired of what on a stupid Yeah,

(25:06):
let's all give him the gun backand let's put our gun down.
When they've got the gun, I'mso sick of that stuff. Go in
there and shoot him. That's whatyou would do. You know. We
were we were in Austin yesterday doinga podcast with a guy named Tim Kennedy
and uh, he's a UFC fighter, Green Beret, Army Ranger, author,
just crazy guys like kings out withJoe Rogan all the time. He's

(25:27):
just a really just American motherfucker.But he hed done all kinds of tours
with the Special Forces and military contractors. They you know, they hunted down
Ben Lauden's number two and killed himback in like O six and uh,
what was that guy's name? Goddamn it. Anyway, it's a book

(25:48):
that if you guys like audio bookswhen you're driving, you should listen to
it. It's called Scars and Stripes. I mean, it's a great book.
But we weren't also doing a showwith him, and he just had
this He just has this great linewhere he's like, bad guys just need
to die. That's it, that'sit they do. He's like, you
know, I don't feel I don'tfeel bad. They're bad guys and they

(26:08):
needed to die. Yeah, Andit's as simple as that. And what
happens when they don't They keep doingwhat they were doing. Yeah, he
uh, he was telling me that, um about when they got ty.
Can you look up what Bin Laden'snumber two was I don't know why I
can't freaking think of his name.He says it in the podcast a bunch

(26:30):
and it talks about in the bookall the time. It was a main
point. But I can't freaking rememberthe name number two. I'm not second
in command. Yeah, this pronunciation, you can do it. I can
see it in your eyes. You'vegot it. You can just try it
on the one. You don't haveto put into it, you can just

(26:53):
read it. Was a hardy asa hard Yeah, anyway, this guy,
you don't know if you guys werecoming out, I don't want to
say it right, and so itwas his boss. But double dead,
yeah, double dead, double tapped. That's then. You know one thing
I learned every time I get totalk to special Forces or Navy seals people,

(27:15):
there's like it's always a double tap. It's never one shot. It's
always one, two, three,half empty clip into somebody. Why would
you ever not make sure and justwalk away? Yeah, I don't understand
that. I don't know. That'swhy they're the special they're getting paid.
I know about the movies. They'regetting paid millions of dollars to create that
crap. Could you not think aboutit for five seconds. You think about

(27:38):
this though, and he just rapedyour family and killed you killed seven people
getting there, and then you're like, oh, it's not worth it.
I'm not You ever think about Hollywoodand how anti gun Hollywood is, and
yet all they do is put inguns and violence and movies like crazy exactly.

(27:59):
But it's funny you talk to militarypersonnel who have like high kill counts.
I mean, that's just that's probablymy favorite thing that about this shows
that we've been able to talk toI mean, we've had a dozen or
more high level military personnel on here, whether it be the guys from being
Ghazi or a or a guy likeTim Kennedy or Navy seals or whatever.
And the thing they always say islike it it's not like the movies.

(28:22):
They just drop. There's no movement, there's no nothing. They just drop
and there's holes and you don't thinkabout it. You just walk over them,
go to the next target. Andit's just like it's really interesting to
get to talk to high level militarypersonnel. But those guys are better shots
to me, so they probably wouldn'tjust drop. Yeah, it might take
three or four oh yeah, andif it's the right person, it might

(28:47):
take seven. Yeah, yeah,well he so he was telling a story
about his first mission as a GreenBeret where they were going, I mean,
this was peak peak right after nineto eleven he got Iraq Afghanistan war,
where they're just going house to houseand just just getting rid of getting
rid of so many people. Alot of it's off the books on how
many how many Taliban members that theyactually put down and how many of our

(29:12):
guys that we lost. But he, uh, he was talking about his
very first one and his first quoteunquote kill where he's a six you know,
a six team special op Group,Green Bay Special Forces, and you
know if there's a there's a wifeand a kid and they're screaming and then
the husband and the husband's got gunsset all over this room and and he
just describes it so perfectly. It'slike we walk in, you know,

(29:34):
someone opens the door, someone comethrough, and the team leader, this
guy picks up his gun and beforehe even like could move, there's just
the sound of metal on metal,him going for the trigger and pop up
and then like six more double taps. And he said, everybody was so
on. These Special Forces guys wereso on that. If you didn't know

(29:56):
what you were looking at, youwould have thought you only saw one bullet
hole, but it was like thirteenor fourteen. So they all hit this
guy within point two seconds with twoshots each right in the heart. Just
drop. That's how precise US SpecialForces members are, Navy Seals. It's
like they're operating at a level thatlike civilian people like us, we don't
even understand the level of discipline precisionmost people have. Can't grasp it.

(30:19):
No, no, And I meanthat's a lot of context when you think
about what those people do, andthen like simple shit like training horses or
podcasting, just the stakes are solow, right, it makes you want
to do better at the ship youdo, at least it does me.
It's always that's always been a thingwith horse training. And I'm not in
it as much as I was,right, But even then, when I'm

(30:41):
always trying to win, to me, nobody's dying, yeah much when I
mess up, right, I mean, there's I've seen somebody die in the
arena, but it's it's so seldomcompared to that when you mess up and
your friends could die, the onesright next to you. It's that's that's
real weight, that's real I haveto perform. Those are steaks. Those

(31:04):
are real steaks. Man. Yeah. My brother in laws a rescue swimming
a coastguard. It says on hisarm, so others may live. Yeah,
I mean that puts some stuff inperspective, right, Like Okay,
and I'm gonna go ride horses everyday. Yeah. Like we just uh
me and Sarah just kind of gotpartnered up with a deal war horses for
veterans that's out of Kansas City,and they bring in veterans and they and

(31:29):
it's not like it's not like you'redown the you know, a little trail
ride, therapeutic riding. Like theybring them in and like they start like
start them bare back in a roundpin, right, like make them get
on the ground and work them horsesand then put them a horseback bare back
and like they have to turn loose, right, And so they're like,
well, you know what's the deal? I like, well, we would

(31:52):
love an opportunity to give back,like we don't. We don't get very
many opportunities to give back to thatpart of our society. And so to
be able to kind of partner witha group like that we're really excited about
that going forward. Yeah, guys, rock and Roll Denham has absolutely changed
the game when it comes to theperformance and style in Western jeens. Top

(32:13):
competitors like Shad, Tim O'Connell,Shelley Morgan, you name it your boy
right here, we're all wearing rockand Roll Denham inside and outside of the
arena. It gives you the flexibilityyou need to win, as well as
looking absolutely great in your interviews,appearances, whatever you're doing, even when
you're just doing podcasts. Like me, I had a chance to go to
Rock and Roll Denham's factory the otherday and pick out all the pants I
wanted. Here's the thing I gotto try in a bunch of their new

(32:35):
genes. I love the men's Revolverjeans with the reflex stretch technology because they're
comfy, they're not stiff like someof the other genes. Go check them
out at rock and Roll Denham dotcom or follow rock and Roll Denham on
Facebook and Instagram for the newest trendsin Western fashion. Rock and Roll Denham
dot com. Yeah, it's it'sone of those, and that's like that's

(32:57):
an important thing that a lot ofbecause things inherently selfish. But I mean,
the horse world, it's just kindof built that way kind of.
It's a luxury it's a luxury businessesa luxury business. Yeah, it's kind
of like sports cars, really likeit, just it is that luxury business.
And you get so wrapped up ineven even this. I mean,
I'm sure when your guys podcasts startedtaking off, like god damn, it's
pretty cool, and you lose perspectiveon this type of stuff, and man,

(33:22):
like, freedom isn't free is areal fucking thing. It's weird to
think about, it's for real.Yeah, and people want to What irritates
me is when they start judging peoplethat are in those spots. Yeah,
that makes me a little bit beyondfurious because most of the people that are

(33:45):
judging, how so everything is splitseconds between you die, they die,
and even when there's some collateral damageand stuff, this is this is right
now. And if you make thatmuch mistake, you're about these jet Most
of the people that complain about themethods could never deal with that kind of

(34:08):
pressure. Ever, No, theycould not put your put your family on
the line, because that's what thoseguys are to one another. When you
know, as close as me andChris are if we were in those kinds
of situations, we'd be four timescloser. Yeah, when you when you're
under those kind of stresses, youget so close and then just imagine you

(34:34):
living with letting that person die,the one right next to you. You
can't, you can't live with that. Well, I mean that's why they
come back with the traumas. Theycome back with yes, you know,
and I mean, gosh, it'sso funny. I mean just talking to
ten and realizing just it was onlylike ten to twelve thirteen years ago that
this whole PTSD thing was not takencare of very well. Now they're starting

(34:59):
to. But it's crazy and mostpeople can't even fathom death, to the
point of I have to put mydog down. I am Yeah, no,
kiddie, Come on, and I'mgonna tell you what happens when those
people, when we don't have somebodykilling them, they're gonna come over and
eat us. Yeah, because we'refat and easy. That's what this kind

(35:21):
it gets when every society, whenit gets fat and easy, someone out
there starving comes and needs him.Yeah, that's the way it goes.
So if you can't keep a hardnessto you. You're going down there.
The evil never ends, no,what it never has. I mean we
were taught, we were nerding outabout history for a while before you know,
Ti graced us with his presence,and it's just like, yeah,

(35:44):
this stuff never ends. It's alwaysbeen the same. And we think just
because we're so soft now because we'vegot to be in this society, that
that's how everywhere else is. It'slike, no, no, Like we
were talking about Genghis Khana, whata savage mother effort that dude was.
They're still people with that mindset allover the world. And he's not on

(36:04):
our southern border. There's people downthat mindset, yes, and they will
eat your shit alive right now,right right this very second. There's a
real thin line between our society andwhat it could fall into. It's pretty
crazy. And even Genghis Khan he'snot that's he's not savage in that time.

(36:27):
The whole world is that way.He's just the one that won.
All the people he were fighting,he was fighting against and conquered were just
as savage as him. He managedto redefine warfare with horsemen. Yeah,
that's all he did. That's literallyit. And archery, horseback archery and
calvary, that was the whole thing. Yeah, they're just people living in

(36:51):
tents. The Europeans and the Asiansare so far beyond them in technology that
it's it's insane. But he createsthe cavalry, he creates mobility with lesalness
that no one has seen. Andthen he taught. He takes those people
and they run patterns and they run, they figure out how to become under

(37:16):
control, under fire, and thenthey conquer the entire world. Because you
know, one of the crazy thingsabout Genghis Khan and uh, I know
that like the Western people they don'tI've we've seen this in the numbers.
They don't like the history lessons.They don't they want they want to talk
about horse shit and horse shittle.And they usually have found that like we'll
bring we'll bring superstars outside of therodeo world on the show or outside of

(37:39):
the horse world, like real famouspeople and everybody like skip really guys crazy,
he could really learn something. Butwhen you look at like like guns,
I don't most people don't know thatthat started with Genghis Khan, right,
because Chinese, the Chinese Empires hadthe black powder, and then the
the Europeans had the metal work,and and they started combining those things to

(38:05):
create cannons. Yeah, so thatstarted with the Mongols. Yeah, and
the in Gengha's Khan. I meanthey are villagers, they have nothing,
learns how to breach castles. Yeah, I mean yeah, no idea that
he never battle pulse single stronghold.Yes, the entire time he was ruling,

(38:27):
he just no meta. They literallythey just they just went from horse
show to horse show. Basically wasinsane. And people don't even understand that
the the cultures that he changed.He's the first one to give women's rights
within the Mongols because he sees hisbloodlines of his greateous warriors. They die

(38:50):
and then that whatever they've built justdisperses. So he gives ownership to the
women, and he makes the firstone to make death for rape for a
Mongol, not for anybody else,but within the Mongol society. If you
raped a woman, they just killedyou. You didn't get to treat women
like that. He realized that theywere the name that he could carry on

(39:14):
and keep getting children out of thatwoman that were good soldiers and good good
for his cause yeah, and he'sdoing that before the Europeans have as many
women's rights as he had, andthe Chinese absolutely not at all. They
still his people, actually, hispeople actually loved him, like he had

(39:37):
a long life for what he was, and he didn't have the traditional fault
that like an Alexander the Great head. Yeah, you know, Alexander the
Great died and he's like what twentysix, you know, and he went
crazy with conquests and overthrew his fatherand he conquered a lot. But I
mean, they don't actually know howAlexander the Great died, but they assumed
that his men just turned on himbeause they're like, we're just not doing
this ship man like him no more. And and Genghis Khan was, we

(40:01):
are not losing a man, yep. Like, they didn't just stand people
up and let him die to gatherground, unless it was the captured soldiers
that they marched up there to seehow the you know, see how the
other people killed him. Then theychanged, But I think he would have

(40:22):
went on forever, but for hissons. His original plan for his society
was merit only. He said,besides me, it's merit only in this
army. You have to win warsand battles to go up. And then
they broke him down a little andgot him to hand some stuff over through

(40:44):
blood, and I think that wasit. I really believe that's the only
thing that stopped it, because meratonly means that you're if you have some
kids that aren't worth a damn,they don't get to stand control of everybody.
You know, your best men arealways moving up. Is the people
he was fighting. It was.It was all on blood, all on

(41:05):
blood, and it didn't European orthe Muslims or any of them. It
was on blood. And Genghis Khan'smen wanted to fight so bad for their
for the Mongols, they could takeon five door odds. Yeah, yeah,
I mean it was the first aritocracy, the first one. It was
pretty unique. And you see thatthough the Western culture thing where everybody has

(41:31):
that same mentality. Now it's likewe're entitled to everything. It would be
great, that's what back you seeit going away from aritocracy again. Yep,
we got the same people having theirkids, and their kids are getting
into the same spots and they're notearning it anymore. No. Yeah,
how many people do you know.I mean even in the horse world,
to where where the first the firstthe parent or the patriarch or the first

(41:55):
generation person was just unbelievable. Butthey were so ubelievable and so busy that
their kids are not to be shipheads and they wrecked everywhere. It's like
the most common story, which onehundreds, I'm telling you, so many

(42:17):
of them. I see that allthe time, like across the horse industry,
like very seldom when you see akids stay in the same discipline,
right, Like I mean, ifyou're gonna stay in the horse business,
you're at least gonna kind of changedisciplines, so like you can at least
make your own mark a little bit, because if you just fall along in
footsteps, it's like it doesn't thatdoesn't work because it's so hard for the

(42:42):
parent to set up the same strugglesthat they had. A lot of the
great parents are I'm not not theirgreat parents. They're great athletes. They
become so successful that the goals thatthey were seeking are easy for the kids,
and so they're not it's not somethingunreachable for them. So like you

(43:05):
say, they changed disciplines or youknow, it's just it's for me.
Drew up being a third generation horsetrainer, and I mean my folks were
really good at what they did.They did the all round stuff. I
mean, I grew up in napalousIs my grandfather's and Nappalusa Hall of Fame,
and I mean you can talk crapon the breeds or whatever, but
they worked hard. They built thesame thing back then that it does now.

(43:29):
They built a career at it.And then, like I didn't even
know you could make living riding cowhorses until I graduated high school. I
didn't even know it existed. I'mcowboy out of a saddle that says stock
Horse Champion nineteen thirty one, seagull, And I don't know what stock horses
until I'm twenty something. I mean, I never even knew that this existed.

(43:54):
And that's what the lure was,right. That's what makes me concerned
life for my kid. I mean, like, if she wants to ride
horses, that's why I told Sarahsays, I think we're gonna send her
off with her grandmother and go sendher the BLUSI shows and do the barrel
racing and do the pole bending anddo the Western pleasure and do all the
events and do it all on thesame horse and learn how to do that

(44:16):
stuff and then come over because Imean history or horse train, it really
doesn't matter. I mean, Isay, they teach history for a lesson
for a reason, and it's ifyou don't find a way to kind of
break those cycles, it's gonna goto shit on you. Yeah, it's
really hard though, because it's likea parent, those struggles are what shaped

(44:38):
you, or like or if you'rea first generation person who went through struggles,
they shaped you. But they're sofricking painful, and so they have
such an emotional toll on you.And when you have to overcome so many
different things, like you love yourkids so much you don't want them to
have to feel that stuff. Butat the same time, you're like,
but if they don't, they're gonnabe lumps of shit. Really, it's

(44:58):
a really hard thing. I mean, I get it. If you have
somebody who's real successful and then theirkids are turds. It's like, man,
they didn't make them turds because theywanted to. It's just they loved
them just damn much that they didn'twant to make them suffer. I'm not
gonna make my kid go through it. I went through. Well, it's
a it's a terrible mistake. Yeah, family run successful businesses in the world

(45:19):
very few and then and it's alot of pressure to be from have your
parent that way because a lot ofpeople expect you to go that way,
and then maybe you don't. Mygrandfather was one of the biggest cattle traders
in California. I'm not right,and that's you think about that stuff.

(45:43):
It's a it's a lot there.But he's raised killing his own beef.
His mom dies early, and itwas something he went into. And how
did that butchering go? When youtry it the other day, don't damn
it. You try to carve oneup on your own. Oh, we
are done. But man, fromthe get go, it was just I'm

(46:07):
not afraid to pull the trigger whenI think the SHOT's there, Yeah,
and went't there. So then heruns off. I gotta go shoot him,
Gotta go chase him down and finishit. I've just been trying to
figure out what we're tired. We'retalking about a cow, right, Yeah,

(46:31):
So then he's so damn big becausewe've been going to boat ram for
a year, and it just keepsgetting put off. Well, then the
forklift won't go high enough, gameoff the ground or the skids here,
So we manage all that stuff,game led out, go back to the
shop, start butchering the chain fall. We get the skin off and the

(46:52):
chain comes loose, so we drophim. So then we gotta go through.
Got to get all that straightened out. It's the reason we named the
podcast Colorful Contact, because we didn'tthink shit show was appropriate. But we
finally got nine. I don't wantto steak off this cow. This one's

(47:13):
gonna taste like shit. Oh itwas the stakes were Oh man, I
have a row of um, apicture of um rib eyes or filets that
is from here to there. Yeah, because don't they say, like you
want the least trauma possible on theanimal, to make sure that there's not

(47:35):
like adrenaline. That's a bullshit,that's what. That's bullshit. Someone said
they don't know everything. They don'tso they don't know everything. It's all
theory exactly. That does sound likea traumatic experience though, well they're pretty
knocked out. The first time Iever shot us year, my dad wasn't

(47:55):
there, and we had sold oneto Mexican labor camp. So the guys
came to get him. I'm notthere. It's not a cell phone era,
right, so they have me goshoot him. Well I don't At
that time I didn't know much English, I mean much Spanish, and they
didn't know any English. So they'retelling me where to shoot, and I'm

(48:17):
thinking it's straight between the eyes.Well for future, it's not. It's
above that. So I drop himand they dropped just like you shot him
dead, and they are screaming inSpanish for I mean, they're overwhelming me.
And finally they're pointing right there,and so then I shot him in

(48:38):
it's actually the same Bellerine again beforehim again. It didn't know we've done
that. It's like they it's it'sthe same as killing him, damn near.
They're just not dead Jesnia putting theirbullet in it, which is better
than Mark Matson when he called me. Because for some reason, I wind
up being a horse executioner in California, you know, I you know,

(49:00):
like when bad stuff happened. Yeah, we don't edit, but you know
what anybody who's been through like halfn't. It is so goddamn traumatic. And
you with a horse. There's nothingfreaking worse than that. Terrible. So
these people call to have me.They've had a bad deal happen. I

(49:23):
can't remember. This horse is tiedup or broke a leg and they need
someone to put him down right now. And I'm not home. So I
said, Mark, I tell himwhere my pistol is. I tell him
how draw the mark, I tellhim how to shoot the horse. It's
bird shot. Fucking oh my god. So then they're screaming at him,

(49:51):
and he's like, hey, whydidn't you kill it? I mean,
I'm just trying to help you out. I'm trying to help everybody out.
Somebody give me a bullet. Sothey and they did, and it did,
but that orts was in so muchpain. It was at least that
knocked him out and then they gotdone. But hey, life's not It's

(50:12):
not like the damned television says.There's stuff goes on out here. Oh,
I mean, you gotta deal withit, you do. But most
people are not equipped to deal withthat adversity. I mean, we're we're
just these doled down versions of whatwe used to be as as just creatures
of the world. There's not agreat way to say that. But I
mean, like your average person isnot gonna even if life depends on it,

(50:38):
they're not going to pull that off. No, they're just not because
they've never been exposed to kind ofwhat the any of the dark stuff that
goes on in life, to anything. You know that there's a benefit that
we all who grew up in thatin the western environment, ranching, hunting,
even fishing. I mean, goodgod, I've seen I've seen people

(50:59):
squeal like they can't kill a damnfish. Oh you've seen it, yes,
yeah, a girl or your girlfriendor whatever. It's like this,
they can't even bear to kill,like just the fish that doesn't even blink.
And I'm pretty I'm very soft hearted, have been my whole life.
But when it comes time, it'sjust that's different. Yeah, that's a

(51:21):
different world when it comes time.Right now, I can pull that trigger
well, because you got to thinkabout, like what's more important You're you
know, you're emotions or the sufferingthat's happening that's happening in front of you.
That's right, I've killed one ofthe greatest things I loved in my
life because I knew that there's nothingbut suffering ahead, and that's what I

(51:50):
would want for me. When youhave to put your own dog down or
your own horse, I mean themare dart damn days. But you and
all at them suffer. What kindof a person are you? Yeah,
that's the That's what so much ofsociety that's making so many decisions doesn't know.

(52:12):
Yeah, they've never made those decisions. And you can't learn that in
a college course. You can't learnthat if you're just you go from university
to real life, and really themost places in regular what I call normal
people life, which is not whatyou guys do or or eat what I
do. I mean, but ifyou if you look at people who rodeo,

(52:36):
people who have ranches, people whotrain horses, people who do that,
it's like we all grew up nontraditionally based on the rest of the
population. Right. It doesn't sound, doesn't seem like it's not. It's
normal what we do, but it'snot to normal people. You know,
there's another in this country three hundredI mean, I don't know how many
people are in the Western world,a few million, I would bet,

(52:57):
but there's three hundred plus million otherpeople who I've never seen it ever been
exposed to it and don't understand it. And those are what I call normal
people. They that they don't getit. They don't have any they don't
have anything to even to pull fromto come up with those ideas. You
know, I think two percent aggis two percent of the population something like

(53:19):
that. Yeah, because the thingthey always say is two percents feeding the
other ninety eight exactly. So whathow do the other people even figure it
out? A life and the deathall they're looking at, and now it's
even worse with the phones and computerscreens and just presented realities. They're not
they don't have any touch to reality, to life and death and other than

(53:45):
within their families. Die in yourvideo game. You can just pay I
want another round? Yeah? Yeah, I mean you can sit there and
and and play a call of dutyor whatever, and you just your every
three seconds you respond, respond,your back, you're back, You're back.
That's not that guy. But Ikind of goes full circle, right,
because we're talking about like Yellowstone andall that, and why it's so

(54:07):
popular, it's because even these peoplewho don't know they crave it. They
crave that because it's still in ourDNA. I mean human beings depending on
what you subscribe to, whether that'sChristianity, even evolution. Let's just let's
just go right down the middle,because I'm Christianity obviously, but I'm sure
you guys are. But even ifyou go the evolution base, you're talking

(54:28):
a few thousand, you know,one hundred thousand years. That's no time
if you if you even looked atCharles Darwin's book, he's in there like
sixty two billion years. So evenif you look at it through that scientific
lens, it's like our brains areno freaking different. So we still deep
down want to be what we usedto be. Well, and you can

(54:50):
get look at it right, what'shappening in the cities with the amount of
crime and rape and robbery. Youcan't get away from reality. No,
there's always someone that's going to comeand eat you. You can never stop
that. That's why that whole worldpeace thing is the dumbest crap I've ever
heard. There is no world peace, damn it. There's not. Someone's

(55:14):
having another Jeffrey Dalmer. Someone's havingone that's going to get The struggle is
always there. That's what makes us. There's always struggle. There will always
be struggle. You can never endthe struggle. The Boogeyman's always going to
be outside the door always, it'salways gonna be there. You can't wish

(55:37):
away bad people and evil. Youcan't wish way bad intentions, right,
you can't. It's like there's areason we're also fixated on heroism, and
like there's a reason Marvel's so popularand all that crap is because beat down
people. They want to be agood guy, like most people and most

(55:59):
people like I don't know about you, guys, but I get more emotional
over heroics and I do sat shitand movies ever always have and uh,
the idea of the good guy comingthrough a struggle and like triumphing whatever that
looks like. You know, whetherit's like you guys, remember the movie
Sea Biscuit when that person tell me, tell me one horse person who didn't
just fall into a ball. Itwasn't from when he got hurt. I

(56:22):
didn't give a shit when he gothurt. When that horse won that freaking
race, the little guy coming andwinning and like, and it hits home
because it's a horse and you know, the heroics and and the battle one
like that's what hits most people.Yeah, that was probably the last big
horse hit that we had before.The tone really could be just I know
they did the Secretariat one, butit wasn't as good. No, SA

(56:45):
was just such a great movie.Yeah, I mean, you're right,
I can't think of another horse thingbefore. That was maybe eight Seconds Lane
Frost. That was a good one. Done the same thing, but war
Horse, I'm not sure. Justwarse horses X. Actually that was really
and it did the same thing.But still it's all based around heroics in
one way or another, and sopeople crave that. All right, guys,

(57:15):
Stay tuned for Part two of TheGauge with Cowhorse Full Contact. This
has been The Gauge hosted by meChance Conrado, produced and edited by our
guy Ty Yeager. Shout out tothe executive producers, Dustin Pointer and Cody
Denton. Marketing and content produced byRiley Chone. Make sure to rate and

(57:37):
review this podcast, as well asfollow the Gauge on Twitter, Instagram,
and Facebook, and make sure tosubscribe to the Gauge wherever you get your
podcast. We'll see you guys nexttime.