Veteran Barrel Horse Trainer Bo Hill

Six-time Futurity champion and veteran barrel horse trainer Bo Hill joins the podcast to discuss how she found herself in horse training along with the changes within the industry since she started.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
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(01:57):
with host Chance Conrad. Are youfreaking serious? It's Conrado. This is
a gauge and I am Chance Conrado. On this episode of the podcast,
we have got bow Hill, whosereal name is actually Rebecca and that's really
the only thing you need to know. The rest of it is in the

(02:17):
body of her work. She's beenin the barrel horse industry for a long
time and has really done a lotof great things. And this is a
great episode. Check it out.And what do I need to do things?
Well, you don't have to wearthem, but they help if you
haven't done one of these before,believe it or not, that'll help.
Yet, with your more, youcan hear better if he has it set

(02:40):
up right. You don't want abottle of water or anything. I think
I'm good so far. Just ahalf bottle of gin. I mean,
we asked you not to drink thismorning, but it's pretty average what we
got. Ye, inflation can't getthe good stuff top shelf jin in Fresco.
Fresco Fresco is still a thing.It is sugar free, only causes

(03:01):
cancer and laboratory rats. It's it'sgood. Yeah. Well, Fresca probably
doesn't have the money to bury theirstudies like a Coca Cola, But I
think Coca Cola does the same thing. Yeah, guy's got a chance if
he's not a laboratory rat. Ithink he might. Yeah, one of
those little piglets that has the headcoming out the side. Yeah, pretty
bad. I don't think they domany lab studies that the public can see

(03:23):
anymore. I don't think those thatyou're drinking are real good. These,
you know what. I usually gofor the coffee, but these ones say
sugar free, so I mean something. They taste somewhat better the sugar free
ones. Yeah, you think haveyou had one? No? Ever,
never, don't get addicted to it. I've never drank any kind of energy

(03:46):
energy drink never, No littim drinkcoffee in the morning. I do drink
coffee. Yeah, a little coffeeand chin and fresco at night, and
a colto sekis. Don't hurt agirl in summertime. It's getting cold though,
as today is gonna be likee Mexicanbeers. Yeah, yeah, Mexican
beers taste good when it's hot.I feel like Mexican beer tastes good four

(04:08):
seven twenty four seven. Yeah,we don't trust people that drink by the
clock. No, are we recordingthis? Yeah, this is how they
go. We kind of just easeinto it and if we find a way
to have an intelligent conversation, we'lldo that. But you know, we
could bullshit about beer all day exactly. Beer and barrel horses has kind of

(04:30):
always been a thing. They haveto go together, they do. But
you know, speaking of that,I mean, that's been your chosen life
path, really it has. Anduh, I like, you know,
we've done like two hundreds of thesethings, including nfrs and things like that,
and people really like the real conversation. That's one of the good reasons
to have you here is that youknow mince words all that much there bo,

(04:55):
and that's a good quality for forthis type of program. But it's
always interesting to find out what someone'smotivations were or are for, you know,
choosing that path, because it's notan easy path, it's not a
guaranteed path. But what you findis that people tend to stick with it
for some reason, the good ones. And I'd like to know sometimes the

(05:16):
path chooses you. Yeah, Ididn't. I didn't know I was going
to be a horse trainer hunter.I grew up. I grew up on
a ranch and rode since I wasa little kid. But the necessity to
train your own horse to compete probablyis why what started me. Because we
didn't have money to buy a horse, and so you just had to make

(05:39):
do with what you had, andyou wanted to get better. And that's
what made me motivated to train horses. And every year I think I'm going
to ride a better horse. AndI have never kept a horse past much
past four but I always tell peoplewhen I ride the best horse I think
I'm ever going to ride. Hecan eat equine senior at my house,

(06:00):
but I haven't rode that horse yet. Well, I think that's I mean,
from a business perspective, that's agood thing because how many people fall
into that thing where they're just holdingonto every horse. Yeah, it's easy
to fall in love with them,you spend a lot of time with them.
It's easy to fall out of lovewith them too. But a good
horse is easy, too easy tolike, and winning is addictive. Yeah.

(06:23):
Yeah, I think that's why theyhave all these rehab centers for people
who gamble exactly exactly, And Idon't know. I love a good horse,
but it is a business as well, like you have to eat.
Yeah, And I never thought.I didn't think in my career. Of
course, I've been doing it beforeFort Smith had a roof on it,

(06:45):
probably close to forty years. AndI never thought we'd see five hundred thousand
dollars guildings or half million dollars embryos. I didn't think. I never looked
into I never thought the future wouldold that, but it has. So
that makes you stay in the industry. Yeah, yeah, I mean let's

(07:05):
go back. I mean, fortyyears is a lifetime for some things.
I mean, certainly, certainly thisindustry. But I mean when you're when
you're kind of looking at the landscapethat we're all living in in the horse
market, horse industry, barrel horseindustry, it's not just the barrel horses,
but well, it kind of seemslike it happened real fast, Like

(07:27):
if you're looking at it from fourdecades, it seems like it happened overnight
compared to kind of the slow trends. I do think it changed. It's
changed drastically in the last ten years. I think it. I think it's
always been evolving. But I thinkvetnor medicine's gotten better. Clinics have gotten
better, pedigree's gotten better, theincentives have come into play, the money's

(07:50):
gotten better, the value of thehorse has gotten better. That's made it
grow fast the last ten years,even the last five it's grown. It's
grown more in the last five yearsthan it did in the first twenty that
I was doing it. It waspretty much the same same deal. The
fastest horse wins, they paid,the top six, no d's, no

(08:16):
anything. When I started, andthe D thing changed changed things that made
the entries go up. It madethe middle class horse bring more. It
made you ride more horses because theywere all going to have a market.
At one point in my career,they had to change disciplines if they weren't
any good. Now they don't.They just have to do it half ass

(08:37):
and then they throw in this equalpayout thing when I do not even get
on my soapbox about the equal payout. But it made those horses have a
place. Yeah, yeah, Doyou remember the very first returner you went
to. I don't it. Itwas probably Fort Smith, but man,

(08:58):
I don't really remember back then.Far probably has something to do with the
twenty four seven beer. Yeah.Well, I didn't say I drank at
twenty four seven. I just saidit was good. No, no,
no, no, I said it'sgood twenty four seven. You were backpedaling.
No, no, I say enoughbad shit on my own. Don't

(09:18):
don't, don't put that in mymouth. But yeah, I mean,
I've seen photos of my parents fromback in the eighties going to for dirties,
and aside from how much weirder theclothes looked, at least to me,
it that was just such a differenttime, like it just everything was
different. The trucks were different,the trailers were different, the way they

(09:39):
ran and were different. Even theway people talked was different. Yeah,
there's a whole new lingo and andit is different. I thought our clothes
were kind of cool. I meanthey're coming back, but I mean,
like when you look at it,like it just looks so different. Yeah.
Yeah, the hat, the shapesof the cowboy hats. Yeah,

(10:00):
we probably stored them behind the seatif I remember right, so they didn't
look proprid man. You probably couldn'ttell which way it was front and back.
Yeah, exactly, you know ifI was coming or going. But
you there's been something, there's somethingabout it that is unique, uniquely special,
if you want to say that thatthat would have somebody dedicate their entire
life to it. And you've donecompetition and breeding and obviously do you guys

(10:22):
have your facility, which is areally big place. And I guess what
has been the main driver or motivatorfor you to want to just continue and
continue and enjoy yourself. I thinkprobably just the love of the game and
the love of a horse. Ilove the horse first in the game.

(10:43):
Second, there's nothing more satisfying thana good horse. Um, I love
to see other people go on withthem. I like to get that next
good horse. I think that's probablywhat drives me. I'm not saying I
don't like money. I do,and I gotta have it needs. But
I love a good horse and thatmotivates me. Yeah. Yeah, you

(11:07):
know. It's funny. You walkedin here and you were like, man,
I could I could get real controversial. I could say some things that
I shouldn't say. And I'm reallycurious what those things are now, really
curious because you're being very pc andI'm like, well, what was she
actually talking about? So well,I mean, what are these controversial things
that that you're worried about saying thisis such a safe place, Like,
yeah, this is not a safeplace. Yeah. I'd never listened to

(11:30):
a podcast in my life. Andwhen she finally pinned me down to do
this, I walk every morning,and while I've been walking, I've been
listening to your podcast. Yeah.I've listened to a few. And some
people are a little controversial, someare not. Yeah, but I don't
know. I don't I don't thinkI'm a controversial person. I will stick

(11:50):
up for an injustice, yeah,or if I think, you know,
I have my opinion about things thatI don't think are good for the industry
or I think are good. ButI'm reasonable enough if you have a different
opinion to listen to it and think, well maybe yeah, but I've been
known to stick up for an injusticethat I didn't think was right. Yeah,

(12:13):
well that that kind of pins youcontroversial. But depending on what side
of the injustice you're on and whoseperception you're up against. That's always the
thing, isn't it. It's likewhen you're dealing with people and the different
levels of maybe power they have oror what have you, you end up
in this weird place where either yougo with that flow that like you know

(12:33):
in your gut it's not right.It's certainly one of the things that got
me out of messing with horses fora while, just because of where I
had found myself. I'm like,man, I ain't not doing it this
way right, and I don't doit. Like if if I don't think
it's right, I don't do it. Yeah, they don't feel right,
don't do it. And I thinkthat's probably where the little bit of the
reputation of being controversial comes in.Yeah, Like I just I kind of

(12:58):
stick to who I believe in,which what is that? I mean,
I really am curious. I waslike, you're doing the onion thing and
I'm having to peel back layers.Well, I mean on what subject,
you know, Like, well,the subject we were just talking about.
How about how about the incentive thing. The incentive thing. I think it's

(13:20):
good and bad. I don't knowabout the long term of it. I
think some of those incentives are aboutthe industry. I think some of those
incentives are about self gain. Itend to stay away from the ones that
are about self gain, the onesthat are good for the industry. I
try to play at um. I'mnot I I think we're gonna make our

(13:43):
gene pool a gene pond because youhave a select number of stallions to pick
from if you want to stay inthose incentives. And those girls that ride
for the public, and there arehorse trainers for the public, financially,
they need to ride incentives horses becausethey pay so good. Those of us

(14:07):
that don't ride for the public,I'm going to ride the best horse I
can get. I don't care ifit's an incentive or not. Because winners
will always be winners, and winnerswill always sell. It doesn't matter if
they're an incentive or not. ButI can see where somebody training for the
public that gets half what they winfor one year is enticed by those incentives.

(14:30):
Some of those incentives drain the stallionowner and drain the horse owner so
much per year every year. That'swhat that's what makes those things pay so
good is the is the horse ownerand the stallion owner are financing them.
I don't think that's totally positive,but I can see both sides of it.

(14:58):
But the longevity of it, I'mnot sure about. Um. I
don't think anybody knows those of ushad had a crystal ball. I think
it got kicked and fractured it andcan't read it anymore. It's hard to
say what the future holds, butthey do. They do make it pay
good right now, but I thinkI think the longevity of it is questionable.

(15:22):
Yeah, I've agree, and Imean the way that that we grew
up and just that full on horsetrainer providing lifestyle, and certainly the kind
of shoot from the hip cowboy wayit was done in the household was we
wouldn't have been able to do itright, we would have been out.
I mean if it were that timeperiod. And I just the stallion thing

(15:46):
is so interesting, right because everybodywants an incentive stallion. I'm no exception.
And we've got one that's come inthis spring that is crossed, and
we're like, let's hope that it'sthat they throw a stud with a good
color that because it's already paid upand see what happens. But at the
same time, it's like you'll see, like this last sale, you know,

(16:06):
that stud goes for nearly nine hundredthousand dollars, and it's like,
if you start doing the mass,it's like, man, it's gonna take
a while to make up that.If it was a business plan to buy
that stallion, which it probably wasn't. Maybe it was, I guess I
don't really know. It's like thatthat's quite an investment as far as like
a business goes. It is,And I don't know the ins and out

(16:30):
on that stall yet either. Iknow that he went with a spot into
one of those incentives, and Ithink a hy percentage of his sale was
for that spot. Ye, becauseas far as I know, and I'm
not bashing him in anyway. Ican't even carry on an intelligent conversation about
him. But I don't think hehad won much or sired much. No.

(16:53):
I mean I someone might be like, well, you don't know shit,
but it's like I wasn't really allfamiliar with Well, that's that's what
I'm saying. I may not knowshit. Maybe he has three at the
finals, but to my knowledge,he wasn't a dominant sire in the Borough
horse industry. I think that wasa business decisions some people made to get

(17:18):
a spot. Maybe they're going tosubstitute another stallion in it. I don't
know what their plans are. Idon't even know them. Yeah, but
I certainly don't. It's making thelittle person struggle. When there's that much
money in our industry that's dominating it. All the little people can do is
keep training horses and hope they getone of those individuals that is worthy of

(17:41):
that kind of price. Yeah.Well, and it's there are other fraternities,
and there's stuff on the East Coastand what have you. But I
mean, like the pool of nonincentive fraternities, because even even the ones
that were good are now considering beingincentive fraternities absolutely, or at least an
incentive sidepot. Yeah, and soexactly, which it's a little discouraging,

(18:03):
and it's got to be for theproducer. A producer comes in there and
adds twenty thousand, Well, we'renot going to go to it when they
have a INCENTI race the next weekthat you only have to run against a
small pool of horses that pays thirtyfive or forty thousand to win it.
Why would you go win a goround that paid eighteen hundred anymore? You

(18:23):
don't want to. Yeah, Soit's not it's not positive for those producers
that have been loyal producers all theseyears either. Yeah. Yeah, I
mean I'm thinking about some of theold fraternities that when I was a little
kid we used to go to,and it's like they they would have no
place in this world. They reallydon't. They might as well have a

(18:44):
multid. I call them multids becauseif I say four D, some Betty
corrects me, Oh, it's afive D. So I just call them
multids and I'm safe. But thoseproducers are better off putting on a multi
D and leaving the fraternity out.Yeah, I hate because I don't.
I don't love the multid system.Yeah, it's a place to season Colton
as a place to get better,But I'm a little old school and I

(19:07):
still struggle with a slower horse winningmore. Yeah, and so I love
the fraternity game. Yeah, theyand they get the ideas from I mean
there's a lot of places that dothat. Like you look at the World
Series, the team roping the numbersystem, like some dude to learn how
to swingers rope last year can goand he can win the same amount of
money as the top top guys.And I get that from a motivational standpoint

(19:29):
maybe, but it is It istricky because the best being the best is
like if you're a competitive person,that's what you like and why you want
to do it. And just inlife, doctors make more than people at
work at McDonald's, those people thatget educated and try harder and ride more.
And I know the the betties willargue, I ride just as much

(19:53):
and I work a job, andnow you don't I ride more after dark
than you ride all week. Trainersride and they work it getting better and
that there's there's training, there's anexcuse built in for everybody. But there's
trainers who work jobs. I meanabsolutely, I've got a full on career
and a podcast and I still ridethree four horses a night. Absolutely,

(20:15):
And you do it if you wantto do. You ran a pawn shop
for thirty years and head a loanbusiness and breed mayors and still be a
trainer. You find a way youdo, you do. And I think
that's one of the corps because youwere you were saying something over there that
has been a topic the last fewdays with some of the other industries we've
been talking about, and it's thatyou don't see a lot of young trainers.

(20:37):
You don't. You see a lotof young kids with rich benefactors,
but that's a different thing. Butyou don't see a lot of people who
are like, let's be trainers.You don't. It's it's a I don't.
I hope it's not a dying thing. But rodeo's growing as well,
and way more appealing to a youngperson than being a horse trainer and cleaning

(21:00):
fifteen or twenty stalls a day andride in ten or fifteen and hauling five
or six every time you load thetrailer. It's not probably as appealing as
Rodeo. So the trainers are areolder, and I do think that the
younger generation doesn't quite have the workethic that the older generation has. They

(21:22):
don't have to. It's a differentworld. They're enabled, So I think,
I hope it's not. I hopethere's more young trainers coming up.
But when you sit back and look, it's hard to name five trainers under
thirty five years old that ride tenor twelve a day and that's what they're
gonna do. Yeah, it's ascary career path. I mean, you

(21:45):
mentioned Clinton, which pretty much everybodydoes. Most of the phone calls I
get are people asking me, isthat really a friend of yours? Come
on? And I was like,yeah, it is, and well why?
And it's because he's genuinely honest,and if you listen to what he
was saying, your life might notsuck so bad. You know, absolutely,
like you have you have to respectthe guy. He made a good

(22:07):
living in the horse industry. Hetaught a lot of people. I said,
sometimes my language is not great,and I said, I'm glad.
I'm I'm glad Clayton came before me, because I'll look like a choir girl
no matter what I say, yeah, but he says it like he feels
it and he's lived it and he'sintelligent. Yeah, how can you not
respect that? Yeah? No,it's true. But I mean if you

(22:30):
were to because this brings on agood thing, because you're a really intelligent
person, You've done this for along time. If a young person and
under thirty five year old person cameto you and they said, hey,
bo, I want to be atrainer in this world that we're in today,
what would you tell him to do? I would tell him to go
train under somebody, learn the business, work hard, get get a job

(22:56):
with a trainer, make sure it'swhat you want to do. Ride ten
or twelve a day, um bea peon for a year or two and
see if you stand it. Itisn't that the hard part? Like I
think that's the thing that people strugglewith. I know in my life I've
certainly struggled with. You know,you can build yourself to be the top

(23:18):
at something, the best in theindustry at something, but if you want
to evolve, then you have togo be the bottom of something else.
And it's really tough on the ego, it is, And I think that
might be a lot of it ismaybe thirty years ago. There's no eyes,
right, there's no social media.There's like there was Speed Horse Magazine,
Barrel Horse Magazine, Western Horsemen.Sure, there's a couple others.

(23:41):
But you could go and you couldgrind and not have to talk to anybody,
not see There'd be no pull topost what you're doing, so that
there wasn't the inherent or the perceivedshame and being a peon because no one
fucking knew you were doing it.We didn't know any different. Now you're
in all these highlight reels and you'reseeing Cassie or Ashley or whoever, and

(24:04):
you're just like, God, lookwhat they're kicking ass? Why am I
not kicking ass? And you know, why do I have to do this?
And it's like, man, youknow what those girls used to do.
Absolutely all these people that you're seeingused to do to get to where
they are today. And yeah,I'm I'm glad that I did the big

(24:25):
end of my screwing up before socialmedia. Now I still rub my horse
and my dog more than I domy phone, but it has its place.
You can find out about events.You maps are wonderful. There's some
good things about social media, butthere's a lot of negative too, And
and you hire somebody to come helpyou, and my people's skills aren't very

(24:49):
good anyway. More people work formy husband than me. I've never had
an assistant, but we do havestall cleaners and lab help and breeding help
on his part of the our business. But you look around and you're working
and they're rubbing their phone. Um, I like how you say, rubbing

(25:10):
your phone, Well, that's whatyou do. They just they just zone
out and rub their phone. Likeyou see it at every restaurant. You
see people doing it that should beworking. When you you haulow merry into
a vet clinic, there's somebody leaningagainst a wall that ought to be jogging
a horse rubbing their phone. Yeah, it's just become acceptable in society too.

(25:34):
And it's social media. Do youever think about it this way?
And this is how I always thinkabout it, because we have the I
mean I certainly have that pool.It is a fight to like not it's
it's almost a fight not to driveand do it. Yeah, you have
to have you have to like fightthat urge. Yeah, I lay it
down because and I think that's whypeople aren't achieving as much is because you

(25:56):
get that same chemical response, thatsame dopamine and adrenaline rush from seeing.
Your brain doesn't know the difference betweenwhat you're seeing and what you're doing necessarily,
and so you can sit there andyou're like world championship, Wow,
and your brain's like world championship orbelias or whatever, and like, so
you never don't focus on what you'redoing. They don't focus smooth to the

(26:18):
next project. It's kind of likevideo games. It's like you can sit
there and you can go experience thingson this right that you could only experience
in life if you worked really hard. And then like, why why work
hard? Why be a top trainerwhen you can just yeah, when you
can get paid to not. ButI mean, what would we all say
if we saw somebody there just snortand cocaine in place at the phone in

(26:42):
all these places, because it's thesame chemical response, right, it would
probably change it. So how doyou how do you get rid of that?
I don't know how. I don'teither. It's it's just become socially
acceptable to spend I don't know howmany hours a week on your phone.
Yeah, but twenty years ago youdidn't. Yeah. No, And thirty

(27:08):
years ago, your phone was abox in your truck, if you had
one, if you had a one. Yeah, it was a rotary dial
phone at home. Yeah, primarilythat. I remember being a kid at
some Lazy Year or Fort Smith oryou you name the fraternity, and my
dad had one. You had thatsony bag phone thing, and I would
just carry that thing around thinking Iwas the coolest son of a bitch whoever

(27:33):
lived. Yeah, you can dialout. Yeah, cost you three dollars
a minute, but you could.Oh. I did it one time and
I got my ass whipped. Probablyneeded it. Oh hell yeah, I
didn't know it, Like, Ididn't know. I just wanted to call.
He was like, who'd you call? I was like, I don't
even I don't know. If Idon't even know. Probably was trying to
impress somebody one eight hundred something.Yeah, is that how it was?

(27:55):
That? What it was? Itwas at nine hundred? I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know either,But it's it's it's an interesting world,
and the horse industry is such asmall piece of it, but you
get a good reflection of what's goingon everywhere if you look into your own
industry and you do you do.It's it's not just faster so horse wins
anymore and you show up run barrels. I mean there's it's evolving. Yeah,

(28:21):
yeah, it is when like yourguys' business, right, you're you're
breeding stuff and what you're doing isthat you know what brought that on Jeff
um when he quit riding bronze hewent the finals in the saddle, wrong
ride in a couple of times,and um, then we got married and
he's kind of obsessed with the breedingindustry. He went and bought some mayors.

(28:47):
After a one second at Fort Smithon a horse, he went and
bought that horse's mother and that waskind of the beginning of it. And
then got some sisters and um,we've reread outside stallions until one was fold
that he thought was the one,and that's the one we have now.
And that's that's really his side ofthe circle. I would probably still be
going to the racetrack and picking outstuff that I liked or buying from other

(29:08):
breeders if it wasn't for him.But he loves the breeding side of it.
He just does. It's that's whathe does. And it's been good
to us heyl Son. If you'renot wearing rock and Roll Denham, then
you ain't no cowboy. I'm DaleBrisbee, the greatest boy rider ever to
live, and I'm known for keepingit ninety and I keep it ninety because

(29:32):
I'm wearing rock and Roll Denham withreflex technology. They give me the flexibility
I need to get that knee up. My biggest problem is I get an
earache because I get my knee upso high and kick myself in the year.
That's why I'm the greatest of alltime. It's because of rock and
Roll, Denim all Son, getyou some yeah, yeah, because you
guys have been able to do itprofitably and well. And I hate I

(29:56):
mean, I've seen so many that'sso many people's goal in their and I
just see a lot of people whodon't know how to make it work.
It's it's a hard business, andit's getting harder with all the incentives and
having to pay into them and stuff. A working man that just works for
a living has trouble paying those toget in. The incentive to get somebody

(30:18):
to breed to your horse. Nowadays, it's really changed in the last seven
or eight years. Our stallion isnineteen now, and it seems like he's
just getting really popular the last fewyears. But I tell everybody it's only
been nineteen years for our overnight success. Yeah. But and we're kind of

(30:41):
kind of glad we're on the downhillside of it with the way the industry's
going. He's he still loves tobreed mayors and he likes to fall out
and you know, we've made abusiness out of that now, we right
there at the property. I thinkhe flushed close to one hundred embryos this
year, and we fold out alunch of mayors for other people. But

(31:02):
this, I don't know that we'llown another stallion after this. That one's
been good to us and he lovesit. But we might be on the
downhill of the stallion owner's side.Yeah, yeah, I guess you only
get so many dice rolls. Yeah, and when you're on that, even
with a thirty horses, you canonly play the four year things so many
times, right, And I'll keeptraining horses for a probably quite a while.

(31:26):
Like I'm pretty sound. I loveit. Yeah, you're only breaking
your legs and going to vets toface them. Well, that was not
even a horse accident that was aI didn't read the fireman's ladder safety course
or something. I don't know thatwent definitely wrong. I just you're telling
the story and I'm like, wait, so you didn't go to the human

(31:48):
hospital. You went to the vet. Well, yeah I was. I
was kind of alone, and Imean it wasn't the big bone and I
got through it. Yeah, yeah, hobble around. Really, I'm pretty
sound. I don't know that i'dpass a pre purchase, but I don't
know how many pearl racers that havemuch age on them would. Yeah,
you brought up something really interesting,racetrack going to the racetrack and picking horses,

(32:13):
and that used to be one ofmy favorite things to do because I
mean we used to go to theracetrack all the time, spent summers there
and not a lot of them,but a few summers. And do you
think there's still a place where peoplecan go to a racetrack and pick out
prospects? Do you think there's stillan opportunity there that maybe isn't being taped.

(32:34):
It's just not something I hear anymore. I do, I mean,
I do. I think there's stillsome some racehorses that make barl horses.
I mean, Dash to Fame wasa race horse and he became a prominent
earl horse. Sire tray say,there's there's some of them that have bled
over, a lot of them thathave Leslie Willis comes to mind. She

(32:54):
rides a straight up racehorse. SheI'm sure likes an incentive horse, and
some of those racehorses have got intoincentives. But I do think that you
can still go to the racetrack andbuy you a good looking horse. And
some pedigrees take a little longer totrain than others. But like I said
earlier, a winner is a winner, and maybe they're not a winner at

(33:15):
four, but they're a winner atsix. Most barrel horses get it.
There's very few pedigrees that are justnon trainable. Some just take longer than
others. And I do think youcan go to the racetrack and buy yourself
a winner. I don't think.I do think you're your odds increase buying

(33:38):
barrel horse pedigree, but it's notout of the question just to buy good
pedigree and still have a winner.Yeah. Do you think that going the
racetrack route is a way to wherethis barrier of entry where it would be
a little lower far it's cost.Absolutely. Yeah, I think you can
still buy you a pretty nice racehorserejat that maybe didn't go to the mountain

(34:01):
and didn't run triple A. Ithink you can buy that way cheaper than
you can a an incentive and rolledpedigree at a barrel horse sale or even
from a breeder. Yeah. Ido think you're odds. I think you're
going to have to ride more ofthose. You might have to buy five
of those race colts to get onewinner, and if you buy five pedigreed

(34:25):
burtle horse pedigreed horses, you'll getfour winners. Yeah, I think your
odds increase. But if you're startingfrom nothing, absolutely, And that's what
most of us did when we firststarted. We bought race horses, or
some people liked cow horses. Somepeople were buying they did they liked rain
or rejects or something that wasn't theroute that I went. I was that

(34:46):
because you were looking for speed.I always thought it was okay to get
beat, but not okay to getout run. Yeah, Like I could
make a fast horse turn sometimes Icould never make a slow horse fast.
It's just what I preferred. Butthere were some. There's some cowhorse pedigrees
that when you have to go throughquite a few of them to find that

(35:07):
individual, and I think young peopledon't want to go through that many anymore,
so they're buying pedigree. I buypedigree because I'm old and I want
to go with statistics. But backin the day, when you didn't have
a choice, you bought a racehorse, and a lot of them worked.
Yeah, I mean everybody was doingit. Oh yeah, that was only

(35:31):
I mean years ago. That wasn'tthat long ago. I mean half of
our barn was everything had a tattoo. They at least started them or galloped
them or I used to think itwas the coolest part. I used think
like, oh, this is aracehorse. Yeah, like it was somehow
more elite than what we were doing, right, Like it was a more

(35:54):
civilized part of the horse industry.So I really enjoyed it. And there's
a lot of benefits with buying aracehorse. They've they've been handled, they've
been washed, they've had their legswrapped, they know how to run,
they've been in a stall. Imean, there's some benefits that the steps
you have to take with raising afoal and getting him to be two years

(36:15):
old and getting him broke and gettinghim tame enough, or you can wrap
his legs and put a blanket onhim when you buy a race horse.
All that's done for you. Yeah, so there's some benefits. Yeah,
and if people because not a lotof people want to be a top for
dirty trainer. I think a lotof people want to jockey top for dirty
horses. Absolutely, there's a lotof perceived glory in that. But I

(36:38):
mean it's been what two or threeweeks since the last incentive deal, and
I'm trying to remember who want it. You know, It's like that you
move on to the next one reallyquick, and so I think people get
fixated on on that outcome or thatthat idea of that glory, you think
that, and maybe they miss opportunitieswhere they could be pretty fulfilled with the
horses that they could get. There'snot a whole lot of glory in being

(37:02):
a fraturity winner. I mean,you win a fraternity, like you say,
month from now, you don't rememberwho want it. And it seems
like in the faturity industry, you'rereally only as good as your next run,
like constantly judged on the next horseyou bring along and and and I

(37:22):
think there's starting to be a littlebit of it's not glory, but a
little bit of recognition for trainers thathave some longivity with their horses and they
sell them and they go on andthey compete with other people. Kind of
fraternity people kind of got a badrap for a while that we put too
much pressure on them and that theywouldn't make. They wouldn't make. Yeah,

(37:44):
they were done at the end oftheir four year old year. And
don't you hate that? I dokind of hate that. And people get
a bad they get a bad judgmentand you do it. I mean,
how many times are you shooting sittingaround shooting the ship with people and you're
thinking, well, so they doreally good somebody, Yeah, but you
can't ride behind them, right,They won't make a rodeo horse. I

(38:05):
mean, I people say that shitall the time. I'm like, God,
have you tried. Really, Ijust don't see how that's possible.
And it's changing a little bit andstatistics are proving it. I mean,
Jordan just won the world on ahorse that was a fraternity horse, and
I mean Hayley's was a fraternity horse. Didn't go to every fraternity, but
it competed at the fraternities. Itwas trained as a four year old.

(38:27):
And a sorry rider is going toruin any age horse, and a good
rider is not going to ruin anyage horse. And matter. Yeah,
a good horse is a good horse. What do you think makes a good
rider at those ages? A goodhorse? Yeah, there's so many good
capable barrel horse trainers. I couldname you ten, just ride off the

(38:49):
top of my head. And theystill have to get a good horse to
beat you. A great trainer ona loser still a loser. Now,
there's some girls that can do betteron a loser than others. But it
takes a great horse to make agreat trainer. Yeah, you to win.

(39:09):
There's a lot of girls can winon a winner, just it takes
a good horse. Yeah, yeah, because I mean the method to training
one doesn't really change. It reallydoesn't. I tell people, if you
had enough bananas, a monkey couldtrain a barrel horse. Yeah, it's
just a repetition putting him in theright spot, and not even necessarily your

(39:31):
right spot or my right spot,just the same every time. Most people
that trained their first barrel horse didn'thave a clue what they were doing.
I mean, I think Charmaine hadlooked back and all she did was go
around and around the barrels and hebecame a winner. And there's a lot
of those horses out there that werewinners because people just stayed persistent, just

(39:53):
over and over and over and theywere good horses. Yeah. Yeah,
when you say think about what itis really, I mean, there's some
things that are pretty complicated that horsesdo. I mean the stuff that's going
on and four Earth right now,where they got to do three different events
and all that. That's complicated.You know, that horse has to remember
to do three different jobs and that'spretty impressive, and they're doing it as

(40:15):
a three year old. But ifyou think about barrel racing, and I
mean, it is a really fantasticrace, but yeah, keep it simple.
It is so simple. I thinkpeople try to overcomplicate it so much.
I don't I don't know. Peoplepeople become controlling. They want to
control the ribs and control the shoulderand control the face. And I do

(40:40):
think there is some benefit to havingsome control of your horse's body parts.
You have to to get them todo it correctly and be easy to ride
and not hurt themselves. But Ithink sometimes it's overcomplicated with having to put
your hands in the exact same spotand your foot in a you know,

(41:01):
and lean to the outside and pullhere. I don't think it's a complicated.
I think if your horse is brokeand he follows your hand and gets
off your foot, you can starthim on the pattern and teach him the
pattern and go forward. I don'tthink it's complicated. And there's trainers that
would argue with me and make itas complicated as you want to. I

(41:22):
don't care. It doesn't affect me. Yeah, I'm going to keep it
as simple as I can because thatdoes affect me. And I want a
horse to be responsible for themselves.Like I like a horse that's about ninety
percent responsible. I'll do ten percent, and if I have to, I
can show up for fifteen. ButI want that horse to be responsible,

(41:42):
and so I try to put thaton them young and don't be responsible for
themselves. And I think it makesthe user friendly to ride further down the
line. Yeah, I always thinkabout it like I want, like,
obviously it's not going to be enjoyableriding a two year old and part of
a three year old's not going tobe. But like when they're there,
it's like, man, I wantto get off of a horse and be
like, God, that felt goodjust riding them. Like if you just

(42:05):
get on a horse and you pickthem up and want them to lope a
circle, even in it just feelsgood. I've always felt like that's the
thing. It is the thing.Like I say, it feels right,
Yeah, exactly. They do whatyou ask them to do. They're responsive.
It's not complicated. I mean lopinga circle. Yeah, first your

(42:28):
first few rides, I call themscuobbles. They're not squares, they're not
circles. They're not ovals, they'resquabbles. If I can just hurt them
around in a scobal, you know, and pretty soon it becomes a circle,
then it feels good. And it'sthe same thing with the barrels.
When you first start them, they'llbe stepping in or off the backside.
Just keep putting them in the rightplace. It's not complicated. Then they

(42:51):
get it. Yeah, Yeah,it's true. I think people like to
over and I mean we all whenyou had other businesses to make it really
feel like you were doing something big, you wanted to sell it as this
over complicated thing to you know,I'm not saying you, but just in
general, like that's kind of whatwe do as humans, I think,
is we really want the perception thatwhat we're doing is sofficult, so difficult

(43:15):
and so out of the normal person'sscope of intelligence or work ethic that that
you just you'd never be able todo what I do. People sell you
that story, and yeah, andit's not true. Anybody can train a
Burle horse. I like to say, if you had enough bananas a monkey,
you can train a Burl horse,right, just repeat, repeat,
repeat, It's not difficult. Andwhen you get a good horse, they're

(43:37):
just winners. Yeah, Like there'sthere's man made horses and there's god made
horses. God made horses are easierto win on, but you can win
on a man made horse, andyou're going to get both if you keep
going through horses. Yeah, strictlymy opinion. And then I don't complicate
Burl racing. I am not onspeed dial with NASA. I'm not.

(44:01):
I'm pretty simple. Yeah, yeah, me too. But so when you
look back, right and you lookat a life lived, per se and
what you've accomplished in your life anddone with horses, and and somebody asked
you a question. It's like,hey, you look at your life lived

(44:22):
and like, what was the bestpart of this whole horse journey for bow
Hill? Probably the people you meetand the good horses you ride. It's
not a certain victory to me orI don't win a lot. I place
a lot. I can count probablyon my hands of times i've won first.

(44:44):
I'm not willing to sacrifice my horseto win first. I'm not that
kind of rider, never really havebeen. I like to I like to
place. I like consistently, consistency, and I like the horse to love
his job, and I want somebodyelse to be able to win on him.
And I have my whole life.But I would say just the privilege
to get to ride good horses andthe people you meet is probably the best

(45:09):
thing that's come out of it sofar from me. Maybe there's better things
to come, but victories just Idon't know. You expect the victories.
I think the lows are really low, but the highs aren't all that high
of winning because you expect to.I mean, you've worked for hours and

(45:30):
hours and hours on a horse thatyou want fifteen seconds out of you expect
that fifteen seconds, so the highis expected and the lows are really low
when you wanted that fifteen seconds andthey let you down, like dam I've
rode you for a year and ahalf and you can't give me fifteen seconds
or yeah, no, that's thevery worst. When you beat yourself.

(45:53):
That's tough, like it is,and it happens. I mean, some
days you just can't riding a sidecardon't work for you, like I mean,
it happens. Some of the bestriders out there look like a fat
girl in shafts on a certain day. Oh you can't say that now she

(46:14):
might be on the cover of SportsIllustrated exactly. Yeah I lost my shafts.
Yeah you did well. Your shaftsare on her one leg. Yeah
exactly. But I think that's apretty a pretty good analogy, not just
for barrel horses, but I meanlife it is. I mean the I
mean, the people you meet andthe good horses you get to ride is

(46:35):
what's kept me hooked and what I'veprobably enjoyed most about it over the years.
I think that's the thing that peoplelove, is just that sense of
community you get when you go toa horse show or a frater year or
what have you. I think that'swhy it's so addicting. It's because you
get this community that's built around thesame goal, with the same more or

(46:57):
less principles. I know there's somenot some good folks that around, but
buying large, right, and it'sfading a little because of social media and
phone rubbing, Like you don't getaround, you don't hang out together and
drink the cold beer and play cardsand tell stories and that kind of thing's
kind of gone. Like you don'thave as many friends, and you don't

(47:21):
go to the go kart track orgo do something fun with a group.
You might go out to eat andhalf the group's rubbing their phone, and
the camaraderie's probably not as deep asit was before phones and social media went
everywhere. With people kind of sad. It is kind of sad. I
tell people that you don't today's societydoesn't have as much fun as we did,

(47:45):
and they just kind of roll youreyes. She's old, yeah,
but I agree. I mean,I just remember being a kid, and
when you're the kid, the lastthing you give a crap about is the
barrel racing at the fraternity, it'slike, oh, we're at this speed
horse event or wherever there's an illagesor a six Flags right next there,
it's like, we gotta go tosix Slacks. We got to And then
when you get there, it's likelike there's a whole thing built around it,

(48:07):
right, that's not just get in, get out, getting your trailer.
Yeah, people used to sit outin their lawn chairs and visit.
Someone would be cooking at their trailer, invite everybody over, absolutely, and
that that's kind of faded. Um, there's still, you know, a
handful of the old timers that gettogether, but it's faded a little.
As far as just the friendship thatyou've made that was that was fun.

(48:32):
Yeah, it might come back andyou get to share ideas and visit with
other trainers. You can always learnsomething. You can learn from the villa
giddiot if you'll listen. I mean, there's just always something to be learned.
But and I'm sure you can learnby rubbing your phone and watching a
YouTube video two, but it's alittle more one on one when you sit
around with a bunch of trainers shareideas. I agree, well, bo,

(48:58):
I think I think you've got alot of great ideas, and getting
to sit here and chat with youhas been a good experience. And neither
of us looked at our phone,so that was good. Yeah, and
I don't need to have mine.Yeah, did you lose it? I'm
biged. It stays gone a lot. I have it somewhere, but I
don't really keep track of it.I check it because you do do business
on them a lot, but Idon't keep it right with me twenty four

(49:22):
seven. Yeah, I know.Everyone needs to let it go. Yeah,
it's it's a little addicting. I'venoticed if you can refrain from grabbing
it first thing in the morning,like set of time, like because that's
the you're like, uh, Andif you can stop yourself for an hour,
don't touch, don't touch the phonefor the first hour of your day,
then you're setting your day up alot better. Right, So why

(49:43):
is it addictions happen first thing inthe morning. I mean, it doesn't
matter, like future Copenhagen, that'swhat you want, first thing in the
morning, where's my Copenhagen. ButI guarantee you ninety percent, ninety nine
percent of people the first thing theydo when they wake up the morning if
it's you know, aside from turningthe alarm off, that's on the phone,
they're grabbing their phone and they're goingto that social media or whatever.
Yeah, whatever you're addicted to,that's what you want in the first morning.

(50:05):
On Our strategy that I have isjust put your phone on silent if
for non working hours and you justdon't look at your phone. You don't
have something buzzing or vibrating your pocketconstantly. So if you just put your
phone on pure silent when you don'tneed to look at it, you're not
going to be incentivized to look atit. Yeah, yeah, I mean
it is important because it steals yourproductivity. It steals a lot of your
happiness. That's really dangerous. Andthe people selling us that morphine dripped they

(50:30):
don't they don't care if you're happy, right, and then play the devil's
advocate. You do so much businesson it too, you do. I
mean you you take contracts, yousign contracts. You people call to breed
to your horse. A mere customercalls wants to know about their full Like
that's a different thing though somebody wantsto call buy a horse. You know,

(50:51):
you it's kind of a necessity.It's kind of a evil. But
yeah, the things that are onthe phone, right, if you're if
you're flipping through three million TikTok's aday that's got nothing to do with you
get contracts, your business. No, you know, two different things.
Because the first thing in the morning, someone's going to Facebook. They're not
going to the contract. No,they're not doing business. They're not doing
business. But we can't solve allthe world's problems. We're simple folks.

(51:15):
We are simple folks. Yeah,we let the horse do it. That's
right. Well, thank you somuch for coming, Thanks for having me.
I'm glad she nailed you down.And you're you did a great job.
You're not to be scared of,right, Yeah, not a big
talker. No, no, no, you just did it for an hour
straight. Well yeah, perfect,perfect, Well, thank you so much,
Thank you. This has been TheGauge hosted by me Chance Canardo,

(51:45):
produced and ended by our guy TyYeager. Shout out to the executive producers,
Dustin Pointer and Cody Denton. Marketingand content produced by Riley Choone.
Make sure to rate and review thispodcast, as well as follow the Gag
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