November 14, 2023 • 56 mins
Join us for a heart-to-heart conversation with Mark Cook, an acclaimed leadership consultant, coach, and trainer, who has worked with numerous Fortune 500 companies. This episode is not just an interview; it's Mark's raw, personal narrative, one that unfolds the void left by the premature death of his father and examines the impact it had on his life.
Mark's striking journey from this deep personal loss to his inspiring career is a moving testament to resilience, shedding light on the labyrinth of adolescence marked by fatherlessness. As he navigated his transition to adulthood, Mark grappled with feelings of uncertainty and loss, ultimately leading him to the path of mentoring and leadership training. For those wrestling with similar circumstances, he offers invaluable advice and guidance, serving as a beacon of hope in the face of adversity. Listen in, as we delve into a conversation that's not just about surviving life's harshest trials, but also about thriving despite them.
Check out the show on any of your favorite platforms and give us a like and follow if you like our content!
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Gentlemen Project podcast.
I'm Kirk Chug.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
And I'm Corey Moore.
Today in the studio I have MarkCook with us and Mark and I
have recently met.
He's been following the podcast, has a very interesting story,
is a leadership consultant andcoach and trainer.
For those of you who are in thebusiness world might know Mark
or worked with him.
Mark, thanks for spending sometime with us.
(00:26):
Love to be here.
Mark has a little bit differentperspective.
I think we're going to heartoday, which will be great, A
great story for us to hear andfor our listeners to hear, on
the importance of fatherhood.
Yeah Right, Mark.
So why don't you give us somecontext, give us a little more
about you, your family and whatyou do for a living, just to
give the audience, you know, avision of big picture, who you
(00:50):
are.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
I thought I cut the bug for ideas and leadership
when I was working for StephenCovey.
Turns out it was much earlierthan that, which we'll talk
about today.
I've ended up married to anamazing woman, anika.
She has a voice, she has avoice Academy, super successful
voice Academy, and I have fivesons, no daughters, two two
(01:13):
grandsons, no granddaughters.
So we're all boys, and Anikafor her and, and I've I've just
loved doing research on howpeople lead and are successful
at work for decades, and that iswhat I'm all about
professionally.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
The name of your company is Windfall Partners
right Windfall Partners?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah, and you go to that website.
It's full of information on howto contact, get a hold of it.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Well, and I think he's he's spoken in front of
four just about every Fortune500 company that there is,
according to the website.
So very talented trainer.
So tell us about yourbackground and why fatherhood
has become an important enoughthing that you would come and be
(02:01):
on the podcast today.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah, well, as Corey and I discovered last time we
met, we had this in common and,in preparation for meeting,
didn't know, and I immediatelyleft and realized that I was on
the other side of this, and so,as we talked again, the three of
us decided to have me on thisshow.
And here I am, and theperspective is this that there
(02:26):
are one in three men at thecurrent moment that grow up
without a father and it's it'sno picnic, and I'm one of those
people, and so would you like meto tell that story Anything,
please?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yes, yes, we'd love to start from the beginning.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
You know I've never really told this story publicly
so and we don't want to go ontoo long so I'll leave out some
details.
But when I was 13, I was justat the end of junior high and I
was happy and a house full ofpeople.
My big brother, Rich, was astar football player halfway
through high school andfinishing high school, and my
(03:09):
sister, Julie, was a collegiateathlete just beginning college
and my mom was literally thebest mother who ever walked.
There she was.
She was raising his full time,finishing this family, the last
third and I was the youngest andone day my father.
(03:30):
By the way, my father was aformer chaplain in the Air Force
and he had started.
He was an entrepreneur and hehad run into trouble not too
long before this, His partnerand hooded and bezels a lot and
imploded the business and theirfinances and insurance and all
(03:52):
the things and partner andactually went to prison.
He was in the clink for a longtime, actually for several
things he did at that time.
So rough, rough time for my dad.
And to add insult to injury,they called us in the front room
one day.
They said it's we're really sadto tell you that dad has been
(04:14):
diagnosed with pancreatic cancerand it's advanced and he
probably won't live more thanthree months and that was a
rough moment for us.
He fought really hard for alittle over a year and it was a
crazy time obviously, always inthe hospital, all of us, and
(04:36):
back then treatment was muchworse than it is now.
So it was.
It was a very painful and verydifficult time.
We got through a lot, and oneday my mom screams loudly Mark,
come in.
And I ran into the bedroom andmy dad was in the process of
(04:57):
dying, and so I picked him up inmy arms and his eyes rolled
back and he passed and put himon the bed and shook him and he
woke up.
My mom was on the phone callingthe doctor a couple of houses
away because 911 wouldn't befast enough and we revived him
(05:17):
quickly before the doctor cameand my dad couldn't really speak
and really well, but he keptnodding to me because it was the
day, my first football game inhigh school and and I was
supposed to catch the kickoff.
So he kept saying get out ofhere, get out of here.
With his face and he smiled atme as though he were to say this
is going to be rough but it'llall work out, maybe in 70 years
(05:41):
or whatever.
And and he kept nodding and hewas insistent that I go.
He loved going to my games andall my siblings things and he
went to all of them and he, hegot me to go.
My cousin picked me up and Imissed the bus and I walked on
the field and I kind of motionedto the other person to get off
(06:03):
one of the other two and Icaught the kickoff and and and
returned and played the game andafter I went up to my brother,
rich, and I said how's dad?
And he said he got really sadand he said he passed Mark and I
didn't think through anythingfrom that moment on for a long
(06:23):
time and I ripped his shirt openand I punched him in the
sternum and said no many timesloud and started an
uncontrollable cry for quite along time.
I even had one gentleman walkby us on the field as we left.
I was leaving with my brotherin law, he was going to drive me
(06:45):
home and this man said it's OK,you'll get him next time, which
was very difficult to hear fromin that moment.
But so that was.
That was the intense part ofthe story.
It was the beginning of overthe next little while, the next
few months, the sand and thequick sand was about to shift
(07:06):
even more.
But that's the essence of how Ilost my dad.
So that was.
That was a dark day.
So that's that's the story thatgets me here, and what we'll
probably talk about next ishopefully good for your audience
to hear.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
So, at 15 years old, you're now without a dad.
What happens with your family?
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Well, my brother was just done with high school and
college age, either heading offto the world or he chose to go
on a religious mission toCalifornia for two years and my
sister quickly fell in love andgot married in 82.
And my mom, who had been homewith us raising us, which is
(07:49):
customary back then, was forcedback in the work force full time
.
Great people gave her work andshe was gone too.
And I suddenly found myselfsitting in a home alone.
And I did have good friends.
I had terrific three girls thatadopted me Nancy, heather and
(08:10):
Aaron adopted me as kind oftheir civilian, and I had a one
male friend, matt Miller, whoreally got you know, inquisitive
and emotional and supportive,really mature for his age.
And but his parents immediatelymoved him to St George, which
was even another blow, and youcan imagine that for a couple
(08:35):
years I wasn't the best studentor the best behaved and it was a
rough, dark time and had noidea how to move forward.
I didn't know how to.
I was a boy, I felt very boyish, I was a starter on the
football team, I wanted to be aman, but over the next couple
(08:56):
years I just was numb and Ididn't for some reason, if a man
came and was authoritative ortold me what to do, it was very
difficult for me Because hewasn't my dad.
And I think there were manyangels that came to me and
(09:18):
buoyed me up Dean Kaelin, famousguy locally that helps American
Idol people, and also DaleSimon, a former football coach,
who gave me the illustriousopportunity to be the driver's
ed aide.
But they, they, what I, what I,as I reflected on this episode,
(09:41):
what they did is they they gotme to just a very first stage,
which was non-catastrophe stage.
They didn't solve my problems,they just kept me from literally
imploding emotionally and andhurting others and hurting
myself, I think.
And and that was an importantfirst step, you know, and I had,
(10:01):
you know, those girls did thattoo and my brother was gone, and
then I was gone Because I gotmyself together and so my
brother and I had been dear,close friends.
You know, we had a little timein between, four years, but that
was it, and so we were kind ofabsent and split up for life,
(10:22):
and split us up for four years,your sister gone, so that that
began my adulthood.
You know, here I am, coming homeand ready to face the world as
an adult male with zero idea howto pull that off, and that's
been.
You know, I feel there are manyworse things that happen to
people.
(10:43):
For sure, I'm a little nervousabout this story because I know
there that some that haven'tgone through this thing, well,
there's worse things that havehappened.
It happens to so many people.
So, but, as I talked to thosethat never found a mentor or
never had a great stepfathershow up or, you know, did not
face this version of it.
You just have to trust us thatare in this particular segment
(11:09):
of that group.
It's rough.
My brother based it a wholedifferent way and says it was
the defining and still is thedefining moment of his life.
I just talked to him last nightabout it.
So it's a very unique,interesting thing that
highlights the importance offathers, and I think that's I
think that's why I'm here.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Maybe you could give us some the listener, some
advice.
Yeah, this is going to be alittle bit of a loaded question,
yeah.
So advice to a young persongoing through this, advice to
someone who's, then maybe adviceto the person who's you know, a
(11:50):
parent who's dealing with kidsgoing through a loss of a spouse
, right and then maybe talk tothose third party people the
angels you mentioned, right.
So from the kid's perspective,the parent's perspective and
from someone who's there to helpthird party that's there to
(12:11):
help what advice would you giveto each one of those groups, now
that you've been able to livethrough all this and then
reflect?
Yeah, I know that's a loadedquestion.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
It's a big.
It's a big and difficultquestion and I'll tell you I
have worked my entire career,probably because of this event,
to answer the professionalsegment of that and have some
really great answers for theprofessional.
So the reason it's such a hardquestion for me is is that I was
(12:43):
fortunate because I did havethe best mom in the world and I
do have, I think, the bestsiblings ever, and through
osmosis and brief lunches andthings like that, emotionally
and spiritually, even though Iwas behaving horrendously I
don't know that anyone even knewit at the time, but I was but I
(13:10):
had a compass and I knew that Icouldn't keep being numb and
just seeking comfort in any typeor version of positive emotion,
and I just knew that at somepoint I had to come up for air,
and so that was that first phaseof just having a compass that I
(13:33):
needed to go up and take abreath above the water, and I
did that.
So for those people in thatposition, I think that's really
what your question is for thismoment, and that is that it's
interesting.
I had a couple of lunches witholder people.
It felt like they wanted tohelp, so they invite me to lunch
and that is such an amazingheroic thing because 99 out of
(13:57):
100 people probably or actuallydidn't do that and probably
don't do that.
But even if you're the one outof 100, one lunch will not boy
someone in that young of a stagethat lost their whole life,
basically.
(14:19):
So what I would suggest isprojecting a careful and casual
not a very adult because an 18year old's still a kid, 25's
still a kid and projecting acasual, friendly series of
(14:40):
interactions, not unlike whatyou guys based and started this
whole project on.
And if it's not dad, it's gottabe someone, and so that would
be a big piece of advice.
Just if I had known that therewould be that kind of a mentor
(15:03):
that was going to invest alittle time and it was gonna be
flexible and friendly, and at myage level that would have been
super powerful Couple people gotclose you know, kaylin got
really close to doing that andsaved my bacon and Simon's in
our twice a week drives was veryfriendly, it was very close to
(15:27):
what he did, but it wasn't thecontent of what you guys
described.
Where you're talking about whatdoes it mean to be a gentleman?
That was not there, and I thinkthat would have been a positive
even for the angels that savedme.
Yeah, I think it's a goodpattern.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
So advice for maybe a kid who's in your situation,
who might find this podcastbased on some keyword searches
or something like.
Speak directly to that kid whomight be 13, 14, 15 years old.
Lost their dad.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Yeah, like you're gonna make me cry, because I
probably helped a thousand ofthose kids, not because I'm
great, just because I've endedup in front of them in life for
various reasons, and they justasked me and I talked about
things like finding jobs andsuch, or I teach them something,
(16:24):
and I think it's because I haveso much compassion for that
15-year-old me and I don't haveany answer on what to do with
that from this point on, to do abetter job.
But I do have some adviceprobably for them.
(16:45):
I would come at it throughtheir mom, the mothers.
My mother had to deal with allthis, in addition to the small
fact that she lost her, the loveof her life, and so she did a
terrific job.
She was both mother and fatherto some extent and she backed
(17:09):
off because she was a strict mom.
She had some good guardrailsbefore he passed and she didn't
want me to plow right throughthem and I probably would have.
So she backed off and I thinkyou can keep, you have to, I
would keep the guardrails up, Iwould turn them flexible and I
(17:31):
think that would be a good thingbecause, boy, we need
guardrails at that young agewhen that happens.
And then to the boy or the girlI would say ask.
And this seems like a verysimple thing, but when you're in
that situation, the last thingyou are that you consider
(17:53):
obvious as a young person is toask specifically for something
that you need.
Not that you want because otherwant things are dangerous but
to think about the deeper partof your core and not what you
want and the fun you need or theavoidance, but to think, hey, I
(18:19):
need more than this lunch, ifyou are willing.
And I wonder if we could go tolunch every week.
Or I wonder if we could talk byphone every once in a while.
And I sure wouldn't have askedfor that back then, but I've got
(18:43):
decades behind me now and Iwould plead for them to ask that
.
My brother has a really powerful, different answer.
He, like I said, we wereseparated.
He approached us alldifferently at that point for
years until we came back intoeach other's life and he sought
for one person.
He sought for mentors that werethe best at something, and so
(19:09):
he got very interested in work,and he was a little older than I
was, so it was time and thatmade a big difference to him.
So I think that's the bestthing to do is to find a mentor
and just get busy in the workworld and keep your compass
spiritually and emotionally andmorally heading to goodness.
(19:30):
Just keep heading to goodness.
So that would be therecommendation for that young
person on the personal side, Ithink.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
I would imagine that in that situation where you're
trying to bridge the gap fromwhere you are to where you think
you should be, that they usethe crutch of drugs, alcohol,
pornography, things like that tohelp them through those stages
of wanting to feel wanted orcomfortable, and that that's
(20:05):
probably a pretty commontemptation for young people who
have gone through grief and lossto be able to just deal with
their emotions that way.
Could you speak to that?
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Yeah, for sure it brings up.
I haven't thought too muchabout this piece of it, which is
that at that point, if I wantedto get into pornography, I
would have had to ride my biketo the University of Utah
bowling alley.
See, I even know where it is,and right there, next to what
(20:44):
was the pool hall, was amagazine rack, and then you'd
have to talk the guy intoreaching at the top.
I can see right where they were, because we knew where they
were.
We went bowling once in a whileand that's the only place you
could really get it, unless youhad a friend's dad.
That was not good and thathappened occasionally, but you
didn't have easy access to that.
So, wow, today, when it's inyour pocket, I guess I would
(21:11):
have to default to the otherthings that were more available
and lump them together, and Idid not solve this part of it
myself.
But I do think that there wereangels that were in my life,
like those gentlemen I'vealready mentioned, but there
(21:35):
were others, because I was notoblivious or resistant at all to
doing bad things at all.
Like life was.
Life was kind of over for me.
It felt like, and so who cares?
I just don't want to feel likethis right now.
(21:58):
So whatever I need to do, I'mgoing to do.
And yet it's strange.
I do remember specific timesdriving to rugby.
I ended up playing rugby withthe opponents over at East or at
Thailand, and I remember acouple of times being offered
(22:21):
cocaine in the car on the way topractice and I don't know why I
said no to that, I don't know.
I remember another time I wasoffered to practice.
I don't know why I said no tothat.
But I do know that it's not all, because I haven't heard a
couple of friends that have areso successful personally and
(22:42):
professionally that may they mayhave participated in those
sorts of things.
But I have others that I knowthat it's really taken decades,
and like three decades, fourdecades out of their life
because they made a choice toget involved with some of that
stuff.
And so I guess the answer isalong the lines that I tell my
(23:05):
sons that I've told my sonsoccasionally in the past, which
is, I think it's like a freeway,you know, it's one thing to
change lanes without signalingand get a ticket.
It's another thing to swerveclear across all four lanes and
plow into the median and goright through the guardrail and
(23:29):
I would.
My best advice, I think, forthe first phase of not stability
but to save you fromcatastrophe, is to stay away
from the guardrail.
And I won't judge anyone becauseof this experience.
(23:50):
It's really easy for me tojudge people, like the rest of
the people on earth but but it'salso very easy for me to
forgive people.
You know the bad things thatMartin Luther King did and like
I just laugh.
I'm like, so his body of workwas the most amazing thing in
the world.
The bad things that AbrahamLincoln may or may not have done
(24:10):
.
Come on, are you gonna comparethat to the great work that he
did?
It's not even close.
The religious leaders that wewe criticize for a sentence or
two.
Please spare me.
I hope you didn't go to highschool with me, because what you
would say about me would be somuch worse.
So I think that don't feel likeyou're gonna be judged if you're
(24:35):
gonna change lanes withoutsignaling in life, so to speak.
They're kind of 16 to 18 yearolds.
That's an analogy.
That'll be close to home.
But do not do the big thingslike you mentioned and swore
across all four, endangeringothers, and plows through the
guard route rails that have beenset up for you.
(24:56):
Just stay in your lane as muchas you can.
That would be my advice to them, just in a short amount of
advice.
You know plenty more, but fortoday, in a short venue, be that
.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
So it seems like I'm kind of I'm like giving myself
advice as you're talking, right,like what would I do?
What would I do?
And then I'm listening to youand I'm thinking give this young
person, help him with somevision.
Yeah right, like we, I realizedthat life feels like it's
(25:32):
basically over.
There's nowhere to turn.
If you could give him somevision of you know you, you
someday are going to have acareer and you're someday gonna
have your own marriage andyou're someday gonna have your
own kids and, as much as itdoesn't feel like it, decisions
you make today are gonna affectyour ability to have those
things.
Yeah, and let's talk about theperson you want to be.
(25:53):
So giving him vision seems likeit would be a good idea.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Yeah, yeah, but I would.
I would back back up a littlebit first and it's a great segue
into the last side of life, andI would say this that in fact,
after our last meeting it wasthe first time I connected this
whole issue with my professionallife.
I didn't even realize the twowere connected and I don't
(26:17):
really know what to do with thatnow, other than I know that I'm
gonna have some sort of anorganization with a small start
without dad or some other name,and and and do it more formally
and actively, maybe start with aretreat or something to talk
about what you've just asked me,because the first step is when
you're in that situation.
(26:37):
You don't think you're gonnacontribute to society.
I didn't.
How could I?
I had nothing.
I had no direction or resourcesthat were bigger than high
school or football.
My brothers were young and very.
The older one was in a veryspecific line of work that and
(27:00):
he'd been in a long time and init he was very.
He was also a stabilizer tosome degree, but he had his own
family and his own boys, notmuch younger than me, to raise
and and so I would say you haveto back down to the day in the
week and the realm of the day inthe week, you know, the day is
(27:25):
this planet's unit of work, it'sthis planet's unit of fun, this
planet's unit of contribution.
And you start there and you say, all right, let me head to
goodness rather than malevolencetoday, and that's the place you
(27:45):
start and that starts, and ifyou can just think that far,
then it starts to look like agoal and and the personal realm,
with you and maybe one otherperson at most, is kind of the
realm of the goal.
Goals should be personal.
If they're not personal, theyusually don't happen.
And there's obviously oldscience and behind that and I
(28:07):
teach that professionally but ithas to be your location on the
path.
You have to start with theseparticular people that have lost
so much, that's, they have tosee that usually, if I walk into
a company, the place we startis a vision, because the vision
is your destination and andwhile our country spends two
billion dollars a year on GPS,the reason it makes 60 billion
(28:28):
plus a year for our economy isbecause we already know where we
are.
We just have to enter thedestination for that it's two
billion to go to work, and sothat's when you're healthy.
That's a great place to startis the five-year vision.
It's and make it visceral andyou can see it.
But that all travels up a pathand one of the mistakes that
(28:52):
leaders make and I think it's amistake to try to to present too
much fact at a young boy inthis situation, where there's a
million important things in life, you know you start talking and
giving advice and really whatthey need is a path so they
realize where they are and todaymust be good and today could
build to something exciting thisweek.
That is exciting in a goodnessway because they want excitement
(29:16):
at 18 and it needs to begoodness excitement.
And then it the realm of theweek turns into the realm where
nothing great happens withoutother people, and they don't
know that I was all alone in myhouse and and fun things
happened with other people, butI didn't really recognize that
(29:36):
good and meaningful things haveto happen with other people.
I've been taught at my wholelife, I taught it every Sunday,
but you just don't internalizeit unless something big like
this happens.
And so the next, the next thingto realize is that, hey, if you
can handle this week, you mightbe able to handle 12.
And on the 13th, if you'reinvolving other people whether
(29:59):
it's a club or whether it's aclass or whether it's a team or
whether whatever it is If youcan involve other people and
orchestrate their actionstowards goodness over 12 weeks,
the 13th week is a quarter, andthat's where you enter the world
of adults, this world and theydon't know that you never even
(30:22):
heard that concept.
But this economy, this society,this world is very familiar
with quarters and if you canlead a few people and
orchestrate just a few and someday many, but just a few
something good for a few weeksand then to 12, you can
(30:43):
celebrate the 13th when youachieve something that's
specific.
You suddenly entered the worldof contribution and adulthood
and then you keep going and youignore the business cliche of
mission.
My discovery, my research, isone of the most meaningful
things I've ever discovered inthe nine studies I've done about
leading work results is thatthis cliche of mission is shared
(31:07):
by about 85% of leaders, andthe rare leaders that get rare
client outcomes and financialresults have something more
specific in mind.
Mission is not the synonym ofpurpose.
The purpose, what we do atthree different levels and three
dimensions for clients andcustomers and people in society
(31:28):
is what we do today, it's whatwe do in a week, it's what we do
in a quarter, it's what we doin five years.
It's the path we do it, it'sour core.
That's why we gather togetheron zooms and offices to do
something specific.
It's not to save the wholeplanet, which is very popular to
think about purpose right now.
Think about how distractingthat is.
(31:49):
If focus requires really justone or two things and we're
trying to do everything foreveryone, that's a problem for
an organization, no matter howbig it is.
And if we're chasing the greatdollar for the stockholders
alone and our bonus that has ashort life in the grand scheme
(32:09):
of things.
So really it's, why are wegathered to help human beings?
We call a target market and aperson, specifically,
sequentially, one at a time.
That's a new thought for ayoung person that you could
gather some people together,identify someone, whether
there's money involved or not,and in a quarter help them and
then in a year or two you getaccomplished something life
(32:32):
changing for them or jobchanging for them.
And that's what a mission meansto the rare leader.
Yes, we do X, but we do X andwe achieve for them A and B.
And when those specifics areput forward and shown to
(32:54):
everyone, they galvanize andmarch forward together, not just
one team, but cross functionalteams and multiple teams,
because we're on a mission.
We don't have a mission, wedon't write a mission.
We're on a mission and wesucceed, we achieve, we
accomplish a mission.
You know, jfk didn't say we'regoing to start trying to get
(33:15):
into space.
He said we're going to send aman to the moon and bring him
home safely.
And when those famous Chileans,or or or an age of the miners
that got stuck, you know therescue people didn't say, hey,
let's save people, we savepeople better than anyone.
They said, let's go get thosepeople and bring them to the
(33:36):
surface and we're either goingto succeed or we're going to
fail.
And it happens in militarysettings.
And I think I think some ofthese very actionable realms of
society and work have fed intoleadership to the degree and I
think that they have inspiredthe rare leaders you know.
A mission is not just yourpurpose.
Use the word purpose for yourpurpose and it has to be three
(33:58):
dimensionally deep.
But your mission is of one ortwo years and we either do it or
we don't, and it gets everyonevery motivated to do it or to
not do it.
And so that's, that's the nextstep.
And it's one to two years out.
And the vision that you talkedabout is probably the final
conversation with one of theseyoung people.
You say now, because it's hardto look five years out.
(34:22):
It's hard, it's been shown thatit's five.
It's very difficult to lookbeyond five years for an
exceptional leader.
That's why I prefer five yearsto 10 or some of the other
popular numbers.
But but five years is is a hardplace for an 18 to 25 year old
to go, and so it's the lastthing.
And once you've built some ofthese other steps, these
milestones on a path, then youcan start talking about the
(34:46):
destination and say can you seethat someday in the future
you're going to be an engineer?
And if you, it's going to take awhile, it's going to take a lot
of work, but you're doing italready in baby steps.
You could be an engineer thatbuilds a bridge like that or a
building like that, or you cando whatever you needed to do,
and and and fish for one of the12 most important things that we
(35:07):
do in life and say which oneare you interested in, and it's
going to.
It might take decades for themto pick what they want to do,
but they may decide right thenit varies.
So one of the last thing I'llsay about all that is that One
of the other great discoverieswas that these, these pages that
(35:30):
get sent out, or emails thatget sent out, or discussions
with each other that we haveabout strategy, and they're on
left to right English symbols wecall letters, and they're not.
They're not accessible to everymind, but it's interesting, the
single most innate thing aboutus as an organism is our ability
(35:54):
to open our eyes and see adestination often a toothbrush
and pursue it between obstacles.
We see a path subconsciously, wedon't even realize it and we do
that all day long.
And if we can project for theseyoung people or a lost leader
or someone who is stuck, if wecan project a path forward from
(36:18):
today to five years out, withmilestones that are specific, we
have given them a huge giftwhere they don't have to sit
around and wait for us to tellthem what to do or be an 18 year
old that's lost because he hasno one to tell him how to be in
the world.
If someone spends a few weeksand paints that picture of that
(36:40):
road forward with thosemilestones and destination, it's
an enormous gift I think.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
I hope that people that are listening, and perhaps
some of those youth that mightbe listening, dot what you
intended to give them in whatyou just said in your path from
where you are to being acontributing, accountable adult
(37:11):
in our society.
I feel like I've got the firsthalf of your story and I want to
know the rest of your story.
Moving from, you had some ofthese people that stepped in,
kept you from catastrophe, andthen how did you, how did you
(37:33):
make it to where you are now?
Or something or someone else,or a realization, a lesson, a
revelation, something thathelped you to get to now where
you are and what you do as afather, being able to contribute
and make sure that yourchildren have what they need
(37:56):
from their father.
Can you, can you like, finishthe rest of that story for me?
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Yeah, I feel like why your podcast touched me so much
is that I feel like I'm stillin that process, even though
I've quote unquote, finished itseveral times.
I've got two manuscripts no onewill ever read and I've tried
to, I've tried my best toaccumulate what I need to know
to talk to five sons.
(38:23):
And there was a time in mycareer, you know, I'd started C
seven with a dear friend, kellyPhillips, and we co founded C
seven years ago and and it was atremendous experience.
It made you know the found thefounding funders a lot of money
(38:43):
and helped us a teeny tiny bit,but it was a tremendous
experience and and at the end itgot hairy because Ray Norda was
the funder and he was gettingall and getting ready to pass
and it got.
It got very difficult becausehis daughter came into town and
and launched a lawsuit to try toget hold of all the companies.
(39:04):
It was.
It was.
It was an interesting momentand there were even a couple of
people that because it was sucha crazy time and I don't want to
blame the business for all this, but there were a couple of
people that committed suicide.
Actually in that frame of timeit was a.
It was a serious moment toyoung people that were just
(39:24):
trying to do something excitingand good in business.
And as I drove home from UtahCounty each day, because we'd
build a building down there andand we had exited part of it and
we were exiting another part,and as I drove and the time went
on, I I thought, wow, this isreally hard.
It's really hard and I and Iwant to, I want to have a better
(39:49):
answer for my five sons thanthis about career.
And so I started eagerly askingpeople.
Instead of listening to musicor listening to talk radio or
books on tape, I graduated atthat moment to a time when I was
calling people on the phonesaying how in the heck were you
so successful?
And and it came from growing upat Covey, where I'd sold for
(40:13):
nine months the idea of startinga magazine and the bug of
filling in this void wasfulfilled earlier by them saying
yes, and I'd reach out to thegreatest people on the planet.
I've interviewed Herb Kelleherand Lydie Dole and Johann Siddod
(40:33):
and Arnold Palmer and GaryPlayer and Ken Griffey Jr.
And I've interviewed sometremendous people Dr Lara, and
just goes on and on and one ofthe greatest people I
interviewed, not then but morerecently, is Brad Parkinson,
who's the father of the GPSsystem.
(40:55):
He led five huge teams tocreate GPS and it's where I
discovered that the most innateability we have is a path to see
a destination and avoidobstacles.
And so I use the GPS when Italk about these things, because
it's our map now and thatinstinct of just reaching out to
(41:19):
people and saying how in theworld do you do this?
How did you get here andfinding yourself driving an
limousine with Carl Lewis and hesaid some interesting things
about focus.
I've never heard anywhere elselike we're all wearing
headphones right now and everytrack star you probably ever see
(41:41):
wears headphones and earbuds.
And I remember him saying oh,I'd get after those rookies when
they'd come to the professionalranks and they were wearing
earphones.
He says where's your focus?
You can't focus on listening tomusic.
It's such a radical idea Juststrange things that were given
(42:02):
to me by hundreds of people thatI just started in my career.
Even if I took an executiveposition or even my CEO position
, I didn't take it If I didn'tthink I had to investigate how
to do something new and do itbetter, because I just had that
bug, and that's why I do what Ido instead of go take a job
somewhere, and I think that'sone of the solutions you reach
(42:29):
out aggressively and you don'tstop to everyone that you think
might be able to give you ideason how to be part of this
humanity.
And one thing I do need toclean up is I use the adult
world word contribute, which isnot an 18-year-old, friendly
word.
But what we adults mean bycontribute is no, we want you to
(42:55):
be part of this.
You're not alone, and you don'tthink anyone wants you to be
part of this.
You don't feel belonging.
It's there, you just have to goget it.
You can't wait for it, you haveto go get it.
And so contribute just meanswhen you go and you team up with
a courier clerk and you findout that together you can do
(43:17):
something greater than each ofyou can do alone times three,
the synergies are there and thatyou have something to give it.
You have something that courierclerk doesn't have, that you
can give, and so it's not likehey, we want you to go do
service, dear 18-year-old, it'smy dear 18-year-old.
There's something that you'veexperienced and no one else has,
(43:40):
and you have it to give.
So go, start talking to peopleand get outside your inner
circle and talk to everyone youcan that you think would be wise
to talk to on how to becomethat and contribute something
that's unique to you, andthey'll tell you if you're kind
and you approach them.
There's ways to do it, butthat's anyway.
(44:06):
That's what I would say aboutthat.
The other one that's muchshorter that is not my method
was my brother's and he went outto the single best.
So I went to, I went broad andI went as good as I could think
I could get, and I didn't havereally a methodology or approach
.
I just wanted to know aboutsuccess and leading work in an
organization.
I thought I was going to end upin organizations not where I am
(44:29):
today and I loved it.
I loved that.
But he knew he was never goingto work in a big company, he was
going to be an entrepreneur andso he would go and find the
very best people on the planetand he started with golf.
Actually, he went and found thevery best person at Golf at
(44:49):
Willow Creek and he snuggled upto him with a lot of effort and
a lot of creativity and a lot ofpersistence and they're still
friends.
In fact they're partners nowand he became a great golfer and
he just qualified for theamateur as an old guy because he
just wanted to do that.
(45:10):
So he found the best and hefollowed the best and he did
that in business.
He went and chased my brotherin his profession for decades
and then he went and found adeveloping mind and an attorney
that were involved with realestate and he found the best and
they are partners at Regal Holm.
So he would go specific anddeep and develop a long-term
(45:30):
relationship in mentorship and Idon't know why that didn't work
out as well for me.
I wouldn't trade it becauseI've had tremendous experiences
with some of the greatestleaders on the planet that are
broad and brief.
But those are two verydifferent paths and I think both
of them are worthy ofrecommendation for someone who
(45:54):
doesn't have a way.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Do you think that this kind of thirst for
knowledge it sounds like thathelped you a lot and your
brother yeah.
You think that's trying to fillthe void that you were filling.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
Is that what that's about?
Speaker 2 (46:07):
It's the only thing it's about and it filled it and
it's helped.
Speaker 3 (46:11):
It's interesting.
Neither of us feel like itfilled it.
It's very strange.
Here I am 56.
And I'm saying this is thefirst time I've ever talked
about this publicly.
I have something on my podcastand something on my YouTube
channel that talks about myfirst job and mentions that my
dad died.
I've never talked in depthabout it like this publicly and
(46:33):
I've been careful too.
I'm sure I've made a lot ofmistakes and offended someone,
but it's worthy of talking about, based on your mission in this
podcast and who your audience is.
And I decided to take thatchance and I think in talking to
my brother I was surprised thathe said the same thing.
He said no, no, still.
(46:53):
Today is the defining moment ofmy life and we've been married,
both to wonderful women.
We've had children in there.
All more important, in fact,four years ago I almost lost my
own life with a spine infectionthat ended up going septic and I
was on my back for four months,which wasn't conducive to
professional career or stuff.
But that 15-year-old momentdwarfs.
(47:19):
My wife wouldn't say that.
She would say that obviously mynear demise was far bigger, but
maybe it was because I was onmorphine in the hospital, but
it's a common thing.
We run into a lot of people likeus.
There's a lot of us out thereand it's like we're on the same
wavelength and we don't stoptalking to each other for a long
(47:40):
time when we meet with eachother and this topic comes up
and I don't think you ever fillthe void.
But I do agree with what you'resaying, that maybe we did and
we don't realize it because wedon't know what we didn't have,
and it propelled us to learneven more.
Maybe but I don't know that itcould have replaced all of that
(48:02):
man that I loved Of course, Ithink all of this information
has been really good for anybodywho's listened to it.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
Hopefully, the targeted information that you
talked about today will helpindividuals that are listening
to the podcast and those who itdoesn't apply directly to.
You're going to know someone orhave an opportunity to be a
mentor to someone who has beenin this or will be in this
situation.
So thank you for sharing andbeing open with everyone today
(48:33):
about your story and helping usunderstand what that's like and
how we can help, because I thinka gentleman is again aware of
his surroundings and can seethings like this.
Hopefully, put their arm aroundpeople who need it and bring
(48:59):
them into the fold, like peopledid for you.
Speaker 3 (49:03):
The math works out that you know somebody.
I know it's probably time.
Do you mind if I share one ofour last things?
Sure, please.
There's another unexpecteddimension to this.
That is advice I'd give.
Whatever you're doing, any of usnot just these young men and
women, but anyone who's tryingto pursue the path and get to a
(49:25):
milestone destination inevitablyhits obstacles.
It is what life is, I've cometo believe.
It's not really anything greatthat happens without other
people, but it's also true thatthere's not really anything
great that doesn't come withoutnear catastrophe or difficulty.
That is unbelievable.
And so you do hit obstacles asyou're going places and you have
(49:52):
to have a reasonable way tosolve problems.
And I'd like to just recommendthat thinking yourself and
brainstorming is not acceptable.
It's the natural instinct andwe even do it in business.
We get in a conference room andwe sit and we talk to each
other and put sticky notes onthe wall and we think we're
problem solving.
And I've come to discover,through 2 million brighter
(50:15):
people than I am in my research,that that's a really bad way to
solve a problem.
Just a high level, withoutgoing into the technicalities.
Really, the ideas that you canget in life come from a few
really basic places.
You can get them from anothermind that you're trying to serve
(50:37):
, as probably the first place.
So the first thing you shoulddo is try to serve someone.
If you're feeling dark andstuck, figure out someone you
can help in the smallest way,even if it's a kid at school
that's not paid attention to andthen go talk and discover their
problems and try to help solvethem if at all possible and
(50:58):
you'll have to get other peopleinvolved, likely.
But that's step one is reachout to the person, someone that
you're trying to help.
The second thing to solve aproblem is really to get in the
space of the problem.
So many of us try to solveproblems from our office and as
I interviewed Steve McCurry,he's the famous photographer
(51:18):
that took a picture of thatAfghan girl that was a National
Geographic decades ago but isstill recognizable by 90% of the
population and he saidsomething funny to me.
He said hey, I kind of thinkit's funny how you business
people try to solve problems anddo great work from your offices
.
You have to get out in theworld and go to the place where
(51:41):
you're trying to discoversomething.
So the second step that I wouldsuggest is going out to the
places where the people you'retrying to serve buy and use and
do a little ethnography and seeit for yourself and have a bold
immersion in that place.
And then the third thing andthen I'll quit there and skip
the last two that are reallypart of the solution side.
(52:04):
The third thing is that thereare people that also help those
types of people and they'readjacent to you.
So if you're a lawyer helpingsomeone and they probably have a
life insurance man, theyprobably have a health insurance
person, they probably have aconstruction person like Big D
and Corey, and if you can haveconversations about how they
(52:26):
help the same type of people,the same target market they may
not even share the same targetmarket exactly, but they have.
And you say how do you servethem and what did you find
worked best there?
You have this virtual team.
Briefly, if you so choose, itcould be permanent partnership
later, but at least briefly youcould have a team instead of
(52:48):
yourself in a conference room ora park thinking all by yourself
how can I get out of thisproblem?
So you reach out in those threedirections and in the morning
you can solve a problem that hasbeen stewing wherever you are
for a month, and that's a veryvaluable piece of advice and
tool for people that are stuckand lost and don't know how to
(53:10):
get forward.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
And I think that applies to parenthood and
fatherhood as well because weencourage you to reach out to
those people who are in yourimmediate vicinity and people
that you love, respect and wantto learn from and ask them to
share.
Yeah, for sure and create thatenvironment.
So there's another reminder.
Speaker 2 (53:32):
Well, we must end it.
It went so fast, but we mustend it.
So we always ask the samequestion to our guests.
So the last question is whatdoes it mean to be a gentleman,
Mark?
What does it mean to be agentleman to you?
Speaker 3 (53:48):
It means serving the one, and this is also a
discovery in my last couple ofdecades.
I grew up in marketing so Ithought you did market research
and found the commonalitiesamong thousands and pursued that
commonality and served it.
And I've discovered throughothers they're brighter than I
(54:09):
am and through my own workafterwards they really go one at
a time.
I've heard a few stories latelythat are really powerful.
I'll end on one that's reallypopular.
That represents what I'm tryingto say, that I do.
But I'm not equating myself toTaylor Swift, I promise.
(54:34):
But I was talking to a friendand he said his daughter went up
to a camp and they said, hey,we have a special
singer-songwriter and she'sgoing to come play some songs
for us and we're excited.
So they all met and thesinger-songwriter came and
played with her guitar and then,anyway, there's terrific.
(54:57):
And then she stayed after andshe met every one of the 100
girls she talked to.
Every one of the 100 girlsstayed all night till his
bedtime.
It was Taylor Swift and I thinkthat's why she rules the planet
right now is that she goes outone at a time and relentlessly
(55:22):
serves the one.
It works.
So that's what it means to be agentleman, serve the one.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
Love that answer.
Thank you Great example.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
Well, thank you, thank you for joining us, mark.
Thank you for listening to thepodcast to today.
If you've felt something today,or if you know somebody who
might have been in Mark'ssituation that you think ought
to hear this podcast, that mightnot know about it yet, send it
over to him.
Back to each good thought.
I'm Kirk Chug.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
And I'm Corey Moore.
Focus on the one.
Thanks everyone, Thank you.
Welcome to the Gentlemen Project podcast.
I'm Kirk Chug.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
And I'm Corey Moore.
Today in the studio I have MarkCook with us and Mark and I
have recently met.
He's been following the podcast, has a very interesting story,
is a leadership consultant andcoach and trainer.
For those of you who are in thebusiness world might know Mark
or worked with him.
Mark, thanks for spending sometime with us.
(00:26):
Love to be here.
Mark has a little bit differentperspective.
I think we're going to heartoday, which will be great, A
great story for us to hear andfor our listeners to hear, on
the importance of fatherhood.
Yeah Right, Mark.
So why don't you give us somecontext, give us a little more
about you, your family and whatyou do for a living, just to
give the audience, you know, avision of big picture, who you
(00:50):
are.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
I thought I cut the bug for ideas and leadership
when I was working for StephenCovey.
Turns out it was much earlierthan that, which we'll talk
about today.
I've ended up married to anamazing woman, anika.
She has a voice, she has avoice Academy, super successful
voice Academy, and I have fivesons, no daughters, two two
(01:13):
grandsons, no granddaughters.
So we're all boys, and Anikafor her and, and I've I've just
loved doing research on howpeople lead and are successful
at work for decades, and that iswhat I'm all about
professionally.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
The name of your company is Windfall Partners
right Windfall Partners?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah, and you go to that website.
It's full of information on howto contact, get a hold of it.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Well, and I think he's he's spoken in front of
four just about every Fortune500 company that there is,
according to the website.
So very talented trainer.
So tell us about yourbackground and why fatherhood
has become an important enoughthing that you would come and be
(02:01):
on the podcast today.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah, well, as Corey and I discovered last time we
met, we had this in common and,in preparation for meeting,
didn't know, and I immediatelyleft and realized that I was on
the other side of this, and so,as we talked again, the three of
us decided to have me on thisshow.
And here I am, and theperspective is this that there
(02:26):
are one in three men at thecurrent moment that grow up
without a father and it's it'sno picnic, and I'm one of those
people, and so would you like meto tell that story Anything,
please?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yes, yes, we'd love to start from the beginning.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
You know I've never really told this story publicly
so and we don't want to go ontoo long so I'll leave out some
details.
But when I was 13, I was justat the end of junior high and I
was happy and a house full ofpeople.
My big brother, Rich, was astar football player halfway
through high school andfinishing high school, and my
(03:09):
sister, Julie, was a collegiateathlete just beginning college
and my mom was literally thebest mother who ever walked.
There she was.
She was raising his full time,finishing this family, the last
third and I was the youngest andone day my father.
(03:30):
By the way, my father was aformer chaplain in the Air Force
and he had started.
He was an entrepreneur and hehad run into trouble not too
long before this, His partnerand hooded and bezels a lot and
imploded the business and theirfinances and insurance and all
(03:52):
the things and partner andactually went to prison.
He was in the clink for a longtime, actually for several
things he did at that time.
So rough, rough time for my dad.
And to add insult to injury,they called us in the front room
one day.
They said it's we're really sadto tell you that dad has been
(04:14):
diagnosed with pancreatic cancerand it's advanced and he
probably won't live more thanthree months and that was a
rough moment for us.
He fought really hard for alittle over a year and it was a
crazy time obviously, always inthe hospital, all of us, and
(04:36):
back then treatment was muchworse than it is now.
So it was.
It was a very painful and verydifficult time.
We got through a lot, and oneday my mom screams loudly Mark,
come in.
And I ran into the bedroom andmy dad was in the process of
(04:57):
dying, and so I picked him up inmy arms and his eyes rolled
back and he passed and put himon the bed and shook him and he
woke up.
My mom was on the phone callingthe doctor a couple of houses
away because 911 wouldn't befast enough and we revived him
(05:17):
quickly before the doctor cameand my dad couldn't really speak
and really well, but he keptnodding to me because it was the
day, my first football game inhigh school and and I was
supposed to catch the kickoff.
So he kept saying get out ofhere, get out of here.
With his face and he smiled atme as though he were to say this
is going to be rough but it'llall work out, maybe in 70 years
(05:41):
or whatever.
And and he kept nodding and hewas insistent that I go.
He loved going to my games andall my siblings things and he
went to all of them and he, hegot me to go.
My cousin picked me up and Imissed the bus and I walked on
the field and I kind of motionedto the other person to get off
(06:03):
one of the other two and Icaught the kickoff and and and
returned and played the game andafter I went up to my brother,
rich, and I said how's dad?
And he said he got really sadand he said he passed Mark and I
didn't think through anythingfrom that moment on for a long
(06:23):
time and I ripped his shirt openand I punched him in the
sternum and said no many timesloud and started an
uncontrollable cry for quite along time.
I even had one gentleman walkby us on the field as we left.
I was leaving with my brotherin law, he was going to drive me
(06:45):
home and this man said it's OK,you'll get him next time, which
was very difficult to hear fromin that moment.
But so that was.
That was the intense part ofthe story.
It was the beginning of overthe next little while, the next
few months, the sand and thequick sand was about to shift
(07:06):
even more.
But that's the essence of how Ilost my dad.
So that was.
That was a dark day.
So that's that's the story thatgets me here, and what we'll
probably talk about next ishopefully good for your audience
to hear.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
So, at 15 years old, you're now without a dad.
What happens with your family?
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Well, my brother was just done with high school and
college age, either heading offto the world or he chose to go
on a religious mission toCalifornia for two years and my
sister quickly fell in love andgot married in 82.
And my mom, who had been homewith us raising us, which is
(07:49):
customary back then, was forcedback in the work force full time
.
Great people gave her work andshe was gone too.
And I suddenly found myselfsitting in a home alone.
And I did have good friends.
I had terrific three girls thatadopted me Nancy, heather and
(08:10):
Aaron adopted me as kind oftheir civilian, and I had a one
male friend, matt Miller, whoreally got you know, inquisitive
and emotional and supportive,really mature for his age.
And but his parents immediatelymoved him to St George, which
was even another blow, and youcan imagine that for a couple
(08:35):
years I wasn't the best studentor the best behaved and it was a
rough, dark time and had noidea how to move forward.
I didn't know how to.
I was a boy, I felt very boyish, I was a starter on the
football team, I wanted to be aman, but over the next couple
(08:56):
years I just was numb and Ididn't for some reason, if a man
came and was authoritative ortold me what to do, it was very
difficult for me Because hewasn't my dad.
And I think there were manyangels that came to me and
(09:18):
buoyed me up Dean Kaelin, famousguy locally that helps American
Idol people, and also DaleSimon, a former football coach,
who gave me the illustriousopportunity to be the driver's
ed aide.
But they, they, what I, what I,as I reflected on this episode,
(09:41):
what they did is they they gotme to just a very first stage,
which was non-catastrophe stage.
They didn't solve my problems,they just kept me from literally
imploding emotionally and andhurting others and hurting
myself, I think.
And and that was an importantfirst step, you know, and I had,
(10:01):
you know, those girls did thattoo and my brother was gone, and
then I was gone Because I gotmyself together and so my
brother and I had been dear,close friends.
You know, we had a little timein between, four years, but that
was it, and so we were kind ofabsent and split up for life,
(10:22):
and split us up for four years,your sister gone, so that that
began my adulthood.
You know, here I am, coming homeand ready to face the world as
an adult male with zero idea howto pull that off, and that's
been.
You know, I feel there are manyworse things that happen to
people.
(10:43):
For sure, I'm a little nervousabout this story because I know
there that some that haven'tgone through this thing, well,
there's worse things that havehappened.
It happens to so many people.
So, but, as I talked to thosethat never found a mentor or
never had a great stepfathershow up or, you know, did not
face this version of it.
You just have to trust us thatare in this particular segment
(11:09):
of that group.
It's rough.
My brother based it a wholedifferent way and says it was
the defining and still is thedefining moment of his life.
I just talked to him last nightabout it.
So it's a very unique,interesting thing that
highlights the importance offathers, and I think that's I
think that's why I'm here.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Maybe you could give us some the listener, some
advice.
Yeah, this is going to be alittle bit of a loaded question,
yeah.
So advice to a young persongoing through this, advice to
someone who's, then maybe adviceto the person who's you know, a
(11:50):
parent who's dealing with kidsgoing through a loss of a spouse
, right and then maybe talk tothose third party people the
angels you mentioned, right.
So from the kid's perspective,the parent's perspective and
from someone who's there to helpthird party that's there to
(12:11):
help what advice would you giveto each one of those groups, now
that you've been able to livethrough all this and then
reflect?
Yeah, I know that's a loadedquestion.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
It's a big.
It's a big and difficultquestion and I'll tell you I
have worked my entire career,probably because of this event,
to answer the professionalsegment of that and have some
really great answers for theprofessional.
So the reason it's such a hardquestion for me is is that I was
(12:43):
fortunate because I did havethe best mom in the world and I
do have, I think, the bestsiblings ever, and through
osmosis and brief lunches andthings like that, emotionally
and spiritually, even though Iwas behaving horrendously I
don't know that anyone even knewit at the time, but I was but I
(13:10):
had a compass and I knew that Icouldn't keep being numb and
just seeking comfort in any typeor version of positive emotion,
and I just knew that at somepoint I had to come up for air,
and so that was that first phaseof just having a compass that I
(13:33):
needed to go up and take abreath above the water, and I
did that.
So for those people in thatposition, I think that's really
what your question is for thismoment, and that is that it's
interesting.
I had a couple of lunches witholder people.
It felt like they wanted tohelp, so they invite me to lunch
and that is such an amazingheroic thing because 99 out of
(13:57):
100 people probably or actuallydidn't do that and probably
don't do that.
But even if you're the one outof 100, one lunch will not boy
someone in that young of a stagethat lost their whole life,
basically.
(14:19):
So what I would suggest isprojecting a careful and casual
not a very adult because an 18year old's still a kid, 25's
still a kid and projecting acasual, friendly series of
(14:40):
interactions, not unlike whatyou guys based and started this
whole project on.
And if it's not dad, it's gottabe someone, and so that would
be a big piece of advice.
Just if I had known that therewould be that kind of a mentor
(15:03):
that was going to invest alittle time and it was gonna be
flexible and friendly, and at myage level that would have been
super powerful Couple people gotclose you know, kaylin got
really close to doing that andsaved my bacon and Simon's in
our twice a week drives was veryfriendly, it was very close to
(15:27):
what he did, but it wasn't thecontent of what you guys
described.
Where you're talking about whatdoes it mean to be a gentleman?
That was not there, and I thinkthat would have been a positive
even for the angels that savedme.
Yeah, I think it's a goodpattern.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
So advice for maybe a kid who's in your situation,
who might find this podcastbased on some keyword searches
or something like.
Speak directly to that kid whomight be 13, 14, 15 years old.
Lost their dad.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Yeah, like you're gonna make me cry, because I
probably helped a thousand ofthose kids, not because I'm
great, just because I've endedup in front of them in life for
various reasons, and they justasked me and I talked about
things like finding jobs andsuch, or I teach them something,
(16:24):
and I think it's because I haveso much compassion for that
15-year-old me and I don't haveany answer on what to do with
that from this point on, to do abetter job.
But I do have some adviceprobably for them.
(16:45):
I would come at it throughtheir mom, the mothers.
My mother had to deal with allthis, in addition to the small
fact that she lost her, the loveof her life, and so she did a
terrific job.
She was both mother and fatherto some extent and she backed
(17:09):
off because she was a strict mom.
She had some good guardrailsbefore he passed and she didn't
want me to plow right throughthem and I probably would have.
So she backed off and I thinkyou can keep, you have to, I
would keep the guardrails up, Iwould turn them flexible and I
(17:31):
think that would be a good thingbecause, boy, we need
guardrails at that young agewhen that happens.
And then to the boy or the girlI would say ask.
And this seems like a verysimple thing, but when you're in
that situation, the last thingyou are that you consider
(17:53):
obvious as a young person is toask specifically for something
that you need.
Not that you want because otherwant things are dangerous but
to think about the deeper partof your core and not what you
want and the fun you need or theavoidance, but to think, hey, I
(18:19):
need more than this lunch, ifyou are willing.
And I wonder if we could go tolunch every week.
Or I wonder if we could talk byphone every once in a while.
And I sure wouldn't have askedfor that back then, but I've got
(18:43):
decades behind me now and Iwould plead for them to ask that
.
My brother has a really powerful, different answer.
He, like I said, we wereseparated.
He approached us alldifferently at that point for
years until we came back intoeach other's life and he sought
for one person.
He sought for mentors that werethe best at something, and so
(19:09):
he got very interested in work,and he was a little older than I
was, so it was time and thatmade a big difference to him.
So I think that's the bestthing to do is to find a mentor
and just get busy in the workworld and keep your compass
spiritually and emotionally andmorally heading to goodness.
(19:30):
Just keep heading to goodness.
So that would be therecommendation for that young
person on the personal side, Ithink.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
I would imagine that in that situation where you're
trying to bridge the gap fromwhere you are to where you think
you should be, that they usethe crutch of drugs, alcohol,
pornography, things like that tohelp them through those stages
of wanting to feel wanted orcomfortable, and that that's
(20:05):
probably a pretty commontemptation for young people who
have gone through grief and lossto be able to just deal with
their emotions that way.
Could you speak to that?
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Yeah, for sure it brings up.
I haven't thought too muchabout this piece of it, which is
that at that point, if I wantedto get into pornography, I
would have had to ride my biketo the University of Utah
bowling alley.
See, I even know where it is,and right there, next to what
(20:44):
was the pool hall, was amagazine rack, and then you'd
have to talk the guy intoreaching at the top.
I can see right where they were, because we knew where they
were.
We went bowling once in a whileand that's the only place you
could really get it, unless youhad a friend's dad.
That was not good and thathappened occasionally, but you
didn't have easy access to that.
So, wow, today, when it's inyour pocket, I guess I would
(21:11):
have to default to the otherthings that were more available
and lump them together, and Idid not solve this part of it
myself.
But I do think that there wereangels that were in my life,
like those gentlemen I'vealready mentioned, but there
(21:35):
were others, because I was notoblivious or resistant at all to
doing bad things at all.
Like life was.
Life was kind of over for me.
It felt like, and so who cares?
I just don't want to feel likethis right now.
(21:58):
So whatever I need to do, I'mgoing to do.
And yet it's strange.
I do remember specific timesdriving to rugby.
I ended up playing rugby withthe opponents over at East or at
Thailand, and I remember acouple of times being offered
(22:21):
cocaine in the car on the way topractice and I don't know why I
said no to that, I don't know.
I remember another time I wasoffered to practice.
I don't know why I said no tothat.
But I do know that it's not all, because I haven't heard a
couple of friends that have areso successful personally and
(22:42):
professionally that may they mayhave participated in those
sorts of things.
But I have others that I knowthat it's really taken decades,
and like three decades, fourdecades out of their life
because they made a choice toget involved with some of that
stuff.
And so I guess the answer isalong the lines that I tell my
(23:05):
sons that I've told my sonsoccasionally in the past, which
is, I think it's like a freeway,you know, it's one thing to
change lanes without signalingand get a ticket.
It's another thing to swerveclear across all four lanes and
plow into the median and goright through the guardrail and
(23:29):
I would.
My best advice, I think, forthe first phase of not stability
but to save you fromcatastrophe, is to stay away
from the guardrail.
And I won't judge anyone becauseof this experience.
(23:50):
It's really easy for me tojudge people, like the rest of
the people on earth but but it'salso very easy for me to
forgive people.
You know the bad things thatMartin Luther King did and like
I just laugh.
I'm like, so his body of workwas the most amazing thing in
the world.
The bad things that AbrahamLincoln may or may not have done
(24:10):
.
Come on, are you gonna comparethat to the great work that he
did?
It's not even close.
The religious leaders that wewe criticize for a sentence or
two.
Please spare me.
I hope you didn't go to highschool with me, because what you
would say about me would be somuch worse.
So I think that don't feel likeyou're gonna be judged if you're
(24:35):
gonna change lanes withoutsignaling in life, so to speak.
They're kind of 16 to 18 yearolds.
That's an analogy.
That'll be close to home.
But do not do the big thingslike you mentioned and swore
across all four, endangeringothers, and plows through the
guard route rails that have beenset up for you.
(24:56):
Just stay in your lane as muchas you can.
That would be my advice to them, just in a short amount of
advice.
You know plenty more, but fortoday, in a short venue, be that
.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
So it seems like I'm kind of I'm like giving myself
advice as you're talking, right,like what would I do?
What would I do?
And then I'm listening to youand I'm thinking give this young
person, help him with somevision.
Yeah right, like we, I realizedthat life feels like it's
(25:32):
basically over.
There's nowhere to turn.
If you could give him somevision of you know you, you
someday are going to have acareer and you're someday gonna
have your own marriage andyou're someday gonna have your
own kids and, as much as itdoesn't feel like it, decisions
you make today are gonna affectyour ability to have those
things.
Yeah, and let's talk about theperson you want to be.
(25:53):
So giving him vision seems likeit would be a good idea.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Yeah, yeah, but I would.
I would back back up a littlebit first and it's a great segue
into the last side of life, andI would say this that in fact,
after our last meeting it wasthe first time I connected this
whole issue with my professionallife.
I didn't even realize the twowere connected and I don't
(26:17):
really know what to do with thatnow, other than I know that I'm
gonna have some sort of anorganization with a small start
without dad or some other name,and and and do it more formally
and actively, maybe start with aretreat or something to talk
about what you've just asked me,because the first step is when
you're in that situation.
(26:37):
You don't think you're gonnacontribute to society.
I didn't.
How could I?
I had nothing.
I had no direction or resourcesthat were bigger than high
school or football.
My brothers were young and very.
The older one was in a veryspecific line of work that and
(27:00):
he'd been in a long time and init he was very.
He was also a stabilizer tosome degree, but he had his own
family and his own boys, notmuch younger than me, to raise
and and so I would say you haveto back down to the day in the
week and the realm of the day inthe week, you know, the day is
(27:25):
this planet's unit of work, it'sthis planet's unit of fun, this
planet's unit of contribution.
And you start there and you say, all right, let me head to
goodness rather than malevolencetoday, and that's the place you
(27:45):
start and that starts, and ifyou can just think that far,
then it starts to look like agoal and and the personal realm,
with you and maybe one otherperson at most, is kind of the
realm of the goal.
Goals should be personal.
If they're not personal, theyusually don't happen.
And there's obviously oldscience and behind that and I
(28:07):
teach that professionally but ithas to be your location on the
path.
You have to start with theseparticular people that have lost
so much, that's, they have tosee that usually, if I walk into
a company, the place we startis a vision, because the vision
is your destination and andwhile our country spends two
billion dollars a year on GPS,the reason it makes 60 billion
(28:28):
plus a year for our economy isbecause we already know where we
are.
We just have to enter thedestination for that it's two
billion to go to work, and sothat's when you're healthy.
That's a great place to startis the five-year vision.
It's and make it visceral andyou can see it.
But that all travels up a pathand one of the mistakes that
(28:52):
leaders make and I think it's amistake to try to to present too
much fact at a young boy inthis situation, where there's a
million important things in life, you know you start talking and
giving advice and really whatthey need is a path so they
realize where they are and todaymust be good and today could
build to something exciting thisweek.
That is exciting in a goodnessway because they want excitement
(29:16):
at 18 and it needs to begoodness excitement.
And then it the realm of theweek turns into the realm where
nothing great happens withoutother people, and they don't
know that I was all alone in myhouse and and fun things
happened with other people, butI didn't really recognize that
(29:36):
good and meaningful things haveto happen with other people.
I've been taught at my wholelife, I taught it every Sunday,
but you just don't internalizeit unless something big like
this happens.
And so the next, the next thingto realize is that, hey, if you
can handle this week, you mightbe able to handle 12.
And on the 13th, if you'reinvolving other people whether
(29:59):
it's a club or whether it's aclass or whether it's a team or
whether whatever it is If youcan involve other people and
orchestrate their actionstowards goodness over 12 weeks,
the 13th week is a quarter, andthat's where you enter the world
of adults, this world and theydon't know that you never even
(30:22):
heard that concept.
But this economy, this society,this world is very familiar
with quarters and if you canlead a few people and
orchestrate just a few and someday many, but just a few
something good for a few weeksand then to 12, you can
(30:43):
celebrate the 13th when youachieve something that's
specific.
You suddenly entered the worldof contribution and adulthood
and then you keep going and youignore the business cliche of
mission.
My discovery, my research, isone of the most meaningful
things I've ever discovered inthe nine studies I've done about
leading work results is thatthis cliche of mission is shared
(31:07):
by about 85% of leaders, andthe rare leaders that get rare
client outcomes and financialresults have something more
specific in mind.
Mission is not the synonym ofpurpose.
The purpose, what we do atthree different levels and three
dimensions for clients andcustomers and people in society
(31:28):
is what we do today, it's whatwe do in a week, it's what we do
in a quarter, it's what we doin five years.
It's the path we do it, it'sour core.
That's why we gather togetheron zooms and offices to do
something specific.
It's not to save the wholeplanet, which is very popular to
think about purpose right now.
Think about how distractingthat is.
(31:49):
If focus requires really justone or two things and we're
trying to do everything foreveryone, that's a problem for
an organization, no matter howbig it is.
And if we're chasing the greatdollar for the stockholders
alone and our bonus that has ashort life in the grand scheme
(32:09):
of things.
So really it's, why are wegathered to help human beings?
We call a target market and aperson, specifically,
sequentially, one at a time.
That's a new thought for ayoung person that you could
gather some people together,identify someone, whether
there's money involved or not,and in a quarter help them and
then in a year or two you getaccomplished something life
(32:32):
changing for them or jobchanging for them.
And that's what a mission meansto the rare leader.
Yes, we do X, but we do X andwe achieve for them A and B.
And when those specifics areput forward and shown to
(32:54):
everyone, they galvanize andmarch forward together, not just
one team, but cross functionalteams and multiple teams,
because we're on a mission.
We don't have a mission, wedon't write a mission.
We're on a mission and wesucceed, we achieve, we
accomplish a mission.
You know, jfk didn't say we'regoing to start trying to get
(33:15):
into space.
He said we're going to send aman to the moon and bring him
home safely.
And when those famous Chileans,or or or an age of the miners
that got stuck, you know therescue people didn't say, hey,
let's save people, we savepeople better than anyone.
They said, let's go get thosepeople and bring them to the
(33:36):
surface and we're either goingto succeed or we're going to
fail.
And it happens in militarysettings.
And I think I think some ofthese very actionable realms of
society and work have fed intoleadership to the degree and I
think that they have inspiredthe rare leaders you know.
A mission is not just yourpurpose.
Use the word purpose for yourpurpose and it has to be three
(33:58):
dimensionally deep.
But your mission is of one ortwo years and we either do it or
we don't, and it gets everyonevery motivated to do it or to
not do it.
And so that's, that's the nextstep.
And it's one to two years out.
And the vision that you talkedabout is probably the final
conversation with one of theseyoung people.
You say now, because it's hardto look five years out.
(34:22):
It's hard, it's been shown thatit's five.
It's very difficult to lookbeyond five years for an
exceptional leader.
That's why I prefer five yearsto 10 or some of the other
popular numbers.
But but five years is is a hardplace for an 18 to 25 year old
to go, and so it's the lastthing.
And once you've built some ofthese other steps, these
milestones on a path, then youcan start talking about the
(34:46):
destination and say can you seethat someday in the future
you're going to be an engineer?
And if you, it's going to take awhile, it's going to take a lot
of work, but you're doing italready in baby steps.
You could be an engineer thatbuilds a bridge like that or a
building like that, or you cando whatever you needed to do,
and and and fish for one of the12 most important things that we
(35:07):
do in life and say which oneare you interested in, and it's
going to.
It might take decades for themto pick what they want to do,
but they may decide right thenit varies.
So one of the last thing I'llsay about all that is that One
of the other great discoverieswas that these, these pages that
(35:30):
get sent out, or emails thatget sent out, or discussions
with each other that we haveabout strategy, and they're on
left to right English symbols wecall letters, and they're not.
They're not accessible to everymind, but it's interesting, the
single most innate thing aboutus as an organism is our ability
(35:54):
to open our eyes and see adestination often a toothbrush
and pursue it between obstacles.
We see a path subconsciously, wedon't even realize it and we do
that all day long.
And if we can project for theseyoung people or a lost leader
or someone who is stuck, if wecan project a path forward from
(36:18):
today to five years out, withmilestones that are specific, we
have given them a huge giftwhere they don't have to sit
around and wait for us to tellthem what to do or be an 18 year
old that's lost because he hasno one to tell him how to be in
the world.
If someone spends a few weeksand paints that picture of that
(36:40):
road forward with thosemilestones and destination, it's
an enormous gift I think.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
I hope that people that are listening, and perhaps
some of those youth that mightbe listening, dot what you
intended to give them in whatyou just said in your path from
where you are to being acontributing, accountable adult
(37:11):
in our society.
I feel like I've got the firsthalf of your story and I want to
know the rest of your story.
Moving from, you had some ofthese people that stepped in,
kept you from catastrophe, andthen how did you, how did you
(37:33):
make it to where you are now?
Or something or someone else,or a realization, a lesson, a
revelation, something thathelped you to get to now where
you are and what you do as afather, being able to contribute
and make sure that yourchildren have what they need
(37:56):
from their father.
Can you, can you like, finishthe rest of that story for me?
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Yeah, I feel like why your podcast touched me so much
is that I feel like I'm stillin that process, even though
I've quote unquote, finished itseveral times.
I've got two manuscripts no onewill ever read and I've tried
to, I've tried my best toaccumulate what I need to know
to talk to five sons.
(38:23):
And there was a time in mycareer, you know, I'd started C
seven with a dear friend, kellyPhillips, and we co founded C
seven years ago and and it was atremendous experience.
It made you know the found thefounding funders a lot of money
(38:43):
and helped us a teeny tiny bit,but it was a tremendous
experience and and at the end itgot hairy because Ray Norda was
the funder and he was gettingall and getting ready to pass
and it got.
It got very difficult becausehis daughter came into town and
and launched a lawsuit to try toget hold of all the companies.
(39:04):
It was.
It was.
It was an interesting momentand there were even a couple of
people that because it was sucha crazy time and I don't want to
blame the business for all this, but there were a couple of
people that committed suicide.
Actually in that frame of timeit was a.
It was a serious moment toyoung people that were just
(39:24):
trying to do something excitingand good in business.
And as I drove home from UtahCounty each day, because we'd
build a building down there andand we had exited part of it and
we were exiting another part,and as I drove and the time went
on, I I thought, wow, this isreally hard.
It's really hard and I and Iwant to, I want to have a better
(39:49):
answer for my five sons thanthis about career.
And so I started eagerly askingpeople.
Instead of listening to musicor listening to talk radio or
books on tape, I graduated atthat moment to a time when I was
calling people on the phonesaying how in the heck were you
so successful?
And and it came from growing upat Covey, where I'd sold for
(40:13):
nine months the idea of startinga magazine and the bug of
filling in this void wasfulfilled earlier by them saying
yes, and I'd reach out to thegreatest people on the planet.
I've interviewed Herb Kelleherand Lydie Dole and Johann Siddod
(40:33):
and Arnold Palmer and GaryPlayer and Ken Griffey Jr.
And I've interviewed sometremendous people Dr Lara, and
just goes on and on and one ofthe greatest people I
interviewed, not then but morerecently, is Brad Parkinson,
who's the father of the GPSsystem.
(40:55):
He led five huge teams tocreate GPS and it's where I
discovered that the most innateability we have is a path to see
a destination and avoidobstacles.
And so I use the GPS when Italk about these things, because
it's our map now and thatinstinct of just reaching out to
(41:19):
people and saying how in theworld do you do this?
How did you get here andfinding yourself driving an
limousine with Carl Lewis and hesaid some interesting things
about focus.
I've never heard anywhere elselike we're all wearing
headphones right now and everytrack star you probably ever see
(41:41):
wears headphones and earbuds.
And I remember him saying oh,I'd get after those rookies when
they'd come to the professionalranks and they were wearing
earphones.
He says where's your focus?
You can't focus on listening tomusic.
It's such a radical idea Juststrange things that were given
(42:02):
to me by hundreds of people thatI just started in my career.
Even if I took an executiveposition or even my CEO position
, I didn't take it If I didn'tthink I had to investigate how
to do something new and do itbetter, because I just had that
bug, and that's why I do what Ido instead of go take a job
somewhere, and I think that'sone of the solutions you reach
(42:29):
out aggressively and you don'tstop to everyone that you think
might be able to give you ideason how to be part of this
humanity.
And one thing I do need toclean up is I use the adult
world word contribute, which isnot an 18-year-old, friendly
word.
But what we adults mean bycontribute is no, we want you to
(42:55):
be part of this.
You're not alone, and you don'tthink anyone wants you to be
part of this.
You don't feel belonging.
It's there, you just have to goget it.
You can't wait for it, you haveto go get it.
And so contribute just meanswhen you go and you team up with
a courier clerk and you findout that together you can do
(43:17):
something greater than each ofyou can do alone times three,
the synergies are there and thatyou have something to give it.
You have something that courierclerk doesn't have, that you
can give, and so it's not likehey, we want you to go do
service, dear 18-year-old, it'smy dear 18-year-old.
There's something that you'veexperienced and no one else has,
(43:40):
and you have it to give.
So go, start talking to peopleand get outside your inner
circle and talk to everyone youcan that you think would be wise
to talk to on how to becomethat and contribute something
that's unique to you, andthey'll tell you if you're kind
and you approach them.
There's ways to do it, butthat's anyway.
(44:06):
That's what I would say aboutthat.
The other one that's muchshorter that is not my method
was my brother's and he went outto the single best.
So I went to, I went broad andI went as good as I could think
I could get, and I didn't havereally a methodology or approach
.
I just wanted to know aboutsuccess and leading work in an
organization.
I thought I was going to end upin organizations not where I am
(44:29):
today and I loved it.
I loved that.
But he knew he was never goingto work in a big company, he was
going to be an entrepreneur andso he would go and find the
very best people on the planetand he started with golf.
Actually, he went and found thevery best person at Golf at
(44:49):
Willow Creek and he snuggled upto him with a lot of effort and
a lot of creativity and a lot ofpersistence and they're still
friends.
In fact they're partners nowand he became a great golfer and
he just qualified for theamateur as an old guy because he
just wanted to do that.
(45:10):
So he found the best and hefollowed the best and he did
that in business.
He went and chased my brotherin his profession for decades
and then he went and found adeveloping mind and an attorney
that were involved with realestate and he found the best and
they are partners at Regal Holm.
So he would go specific anddeep and develop a long-term
(45:30):
relationship in mentorship and Idon't know why that didn't work
out as well for me.
I wouldn't trade it becauseI've had tremendous experiences
with some of the greatestleaders on the planet that are
broad and brief.
But those are two verydifferent paths and I think both
of them are worthy ofrecommendation for someone who
(45:54):
doesn't have a way.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Do you think that this kind of thirst for
knowledge it sounds like thathelped you a lot and your
brother yeah.
You think that's trying to fillthe void that you were filling.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
Is that what that's about?
Speaker 2 (46:07):
It's the only thing it's about and it filled it and
it's helped.
Speaker 3 (46:11):
It's interesting.
Neither of us feel like itfilled it.
It's very strange.
Here I am 56.
And I'm saying this is thefirst time I've ever talked
about this publicly.
I have something on my podcastand something on my YouTube
channel that talks about myfirst job and mentions that my
dad died.
I've never talked in depthabout it like this publicly and
(46:33):
I've been careful too.
I'm sure I've made a lot ofmistakes and offended someone,
but it's worthy of talking about, based on your mission in this
podcast and who your audience is.
And I decided to take thatchance and I think in talking to
my brother I was surprised thathe said the same thing.
He said no, no, still.
(46:53):
Today is the defining moment ofmy life and we've been married,
both to wonderful women.
We've had children in there.
All more important, in fact,four years ago I almost lost my
own life with a spine infectionthat ended up going septic and I
was on my back for four months,which wasn't conducive to
professional career or stuff.
But that 15-year-old momentdwarfs.
(47:19):
My wife wouldn't say that.
She would say that obviously mynear demise was far bigger, but
maybe it was because I was onmorphine in the hospital, but
it's a common thing.
We run into a lot of people likeus.
There's a lot of us out thereand it's like we're on the same
wavelength and we don't stoptalking to each other for a long
(47:40):
time when we meet with eachother and this topic comes up
and I don't think you ever fillthe void.
But I do agree with what you'resaying, that maybe we did and
we don't realize it because wedon't know what we didn't have,
and it propelled us to learneven more.
Maybe but I don't know that itcould have replaced all of that
(48:02):
man that I loved Of course, Ithink all of this information
has been really good for anybodywho's listened to it.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
Hopefully, the targeted information that you
talked about today will helpindividuals that are listening
to the podcast and those who itdoesn't apply directly to.
You're going to know someone orhave an opportunity to be a
mentor to someone who has beenin this or will be in this
situation.
So thank you for sharing andbeing open with everyone today
(48:33):
about your story and helping usunderstand what that's like and
how we can help, because I thinka gentleman is again aware of
his surroundings and can seethings like this.
Hopefully, put their arm aroundpeople who need it and bring
(48:59):
them into the fold, like peopledid for you.
Speaker 3 (49:03):
The math works out that you know somebody.
I know it's probably time.
Do you mind if I share one ofour last things?
Sure, please.
There's another unexpecteddimension to this.
That is advice I'd give.
Whatever you're doing, any of usnot just these young men and
women, but anyone who's tryingto pursue the path and get to a
(49:25):
milestone destination inevitablyhits obstacles.
It is what life is, I've cometo believe.
It's not really anything greatthat happens without other
people, but it's also true thatthere's not really anything
great that doesn't come withoutnear catastrophe or difficulty.
That is unbelievable.
And so you do hit obstacles asyou're going places and you have
(49:52):
to have a reasonable way tosolve problems.
And I'd like to just recommendthat thinking yourself and
brainstorming is not acceptable.
It's the natural instinct andwe even do it in business.
We get in a conference room andwe sit and we talk to each
other and put sticky notes onthe wall and we think we're
problem solving.
And I've come to discover,through 2 million brighter
(50:15):
people than I am in my research,that that's a really bad way to
solve a problem.
Just a high level, withoutgoing into the technicalities.
Really, the ideas that you canget in life come from a few
really basic places.
You can get them from anothermind that you're trying to serve
(50:37):
, as probably the first place.
So the first thing you shoulddo is try to serve someone.
If you're feeling dark andstuck, figure out someone you
can help in the smallest way,even if it's a kid at school
that's not paid attention to andthen go talk and discover their
problems and try to help solvethem if at all possible and
(50:58):
you'll have to get other peopleinvolved, likely.
But that's step one is reachout to the person, someone that
you're trying to help.
The second thing to solve aproblem is really to get in the
space of the problem.
So many of us try to solveproblems from our office and as
I interviewed Steve McCurry,he's the famous photographer
(51:18):
that took a picture of thatAfghan girl that was a National
Geographic decades ago but isstill recognizable by 90% of the
population and he saidsomething funny to me.
He said hey, I kind of thinkit's funny how you business
people try to solve problems anddo great work from your offices
.
You have to get out in theworld and go to the place where
(51:41):
you're trying to discoversomething.
So the second step that I wouldsuggest is going out to the
places where the people you'retrying to serve buy and use and
do a little ethnography and seeit for yourself and have a bold
immersion in that place.
And then the third thing andthen I'll quit there and skip
the last two that are reallypart of the solution side.
(52:04):
The third thing is that thereare people that also help those
types of people and they'readjacent to you.
So if you're a lawyer helpingsomeone and they probably have a
life insurance man, theyprobably have a health insurance
person, they probably have aconstruction person like Big D
and Corey, and if you can haveconversations about how they
(52:26):
help the same type of people,the same target market they may
not even share the same targetmarket exactly, but they have.
And you say how do you servethem and what did you find
worked best there?
You have this virtual team.
Briefly, if you so choose, itcould be permanent partnership
later, but at least briefly youcould have a team instead of
(52:48):
yourself in a conference room ora park thinking all by yourself
how can I get out of thisproblem?
So you reach out in those threedirections and in the morning
you can solve a problem that hasbeen stewing wherever you are
for a month, and that's a veryvaluable piece of advice and
tool for people that are stuckand lost and don't know how to
(53:10):
get forward.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
And I think that applies to parenthood and
fatherhood as well because weencourage you to reach out to
those people who are in yourimmediate vicinity and people
that you love, respect and wantto learn from and ask them to
share.
Yeah, for sure and create thatenvironment.
So there's another reminder.
Speaker 2 (53:32):
Well, we must end it.
It went so fast, but we mustend it.
So we always ask the samequestion to our guests.
So the last question is whatdoes it mean to be a gentleman,
Mark?
What does it mean to be agentleman to you?
Speaker 3 (53:48):
It means serving the one, and this is also a
discovery in my last couple ofdecades.
I grew up in marketing so Ithought you did market research
and found the commonalitiesamong thousands and pursued that
commonality and served it.
And I've discovered throughothers they're brighter than I
(54:09):
am and through my own workafterwards they really go one at
a time.
I've heard a few stories latelythat are really powerful.
I'll end on one that's reallypopular.
That represents what I'm tryingto say, that I do.
But I'm not equating myself toTaylor Swift, I promise.
(54:34):
But I was talking to a friendand he said his daughter went up
to a camp and they said, hey,we have a special
singer-songwriter and she'sgoing to come play some songs
for us and we're excited.
So they all met and thesinger-songwriter came and
played with her guitar and then,anyway, there's terrific.
(54:57):
And then she stayed after andshe met every one of the 100
girls she talked to.
Every one of the 100 girlsstayed all night till his
bedtime.
It was Taylor Swift and I thinkthat's why she rules the planet
right now is that she goes outone at a time and relentlessly
(55:22):
serves the one.
It works.
So that's what it means to be agentleman, serve the one.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
Love that answer.
Thank you Great example.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
Well, thank you, thank you for joining us, mark.
Thank you for listening to thepodcast to today.
If you've felt something today,or if you know somebody who
might have been in Mark'ssituation that you think ought
to hear this podcast, that mightnot know about it yet, send it
over to him.
Back to each good thought.
I'm Kirk Chug.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
And I'm Corey Moore.
Focus on the one.
Thanks everyone, Thank you.
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