February 3, 2025 • 45 mins
Parenting in the digital age comes with its own set of challenges, and we dive headfirst into this complex topic. Discover the delicate balance between being a parent and a friend, and why fostering resilience in children may require letting them face adversity. Our conversation takes an analytical turn as we explore this generational paradox, dissecting the effects of social media on mental well-being and time management. We also talk about the potential of artificial intelligence in education—should AI become a staple in classrooms to equip students for the future? These compelling discussions offer a fresh perspective on the societal shifts driven by technology's pervasive influence on youth today.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Cory Moore (00:00):
Welcome to the Gentlemen Project Podcast.
I'm Cory Moore.
Kirk Chugg (00:04):
Kirk Chugg.
Today, Matthew Poll joins us inthe studio.
Matthew and I met each other acouple years ago.
He was on a panel for somecryptocurrency panels that we
were learning about crypto, andhe's big into a lot of tech.
As I've got to know him alittle bit better, he's got his
hands in many different firesand he's very smart.
(00:24):
He's involved here in the Utahscene.
We're excited to talk to him ona personal level, too, about
some of the things that he'slearned throughout his life,
both including how he was raisedand some of the things that
we've talked about in the past.
I'm really excited he has evendone he just told us he's done
(00:45):
an AI audit.
This is how he uses AI, this ishow we're all going to be using
AI and in 15 years we're goingto go.
Yeah, everybody used it thatway, dude On the Gentleman
Project podcast, to kind of getan idea of what we talk about.
So he knows and it's prettycool, pretty cool way to find
out.
So, matt, tell us a little bitabout yourself, your background,
(01:08):
your family and what's going onin your life right now.
Matthew Poll (01:11):
In the work front, the work scene here in Utah.
I'm involved in some SaaScompanies.
I know a company called GreenChart which is a charting
software company that we startedyears ago, and we have a
specialty project calledStrategy Suite, which is like a
community where traders can goand all the data around their
(01:32):
strategies that they're tradingactually gets shared with the
community and it becomes thiskind of like high-level
community-driven success poolwhere everyone knows going in,
everything they contributed isshared with the group but then,
as everyone shares with thegroup, the tide kind of lifts
for all the members.
So, anyways, doing that with agreen chart, you were right,
(01:54):
like on a I would say even apolitical front.
Uh, heavily involved in ai,heavily involved in the crypto
blockchain space, helped formthe blockchain.
Utah's coalition helped withthe AI policy group here in Utah
also.
So I love having my fingers inthat, because I really actually
love Utah.
(02:14):
I'm a California transplant,came from Southern California
about 20 years ago and came withkind of a chip on my shoulder
like an attitude Like, oh, like,I'm not going to like Utah,
yeah, like.
Kirk Chugg (02:24):
Oh, like, I'm not going to like Utah.
Matthew Poll (02:26):
Yeah, yeah, oh yeah.
And you see it a lot from thepeople that move here it's like
oh yeah, california is better,here's why Right.
It was like everything was acomparison to California.
And after about two years I waslike oh, I get it.
I get why Utah is so great.
I get why we don't want tochange these things.
I get why and you know, I wasraising a new family at the time
(02:47):
, looking for opportunities forgrowth as an entrepreneur.
And looking back at it now,there's no way I could have done
that in California.
And looking at the politics nowlike I would never go back, I'd
never recommend kids to go there.
You know what I mean.
Like like just the edge alone,uh, the advantage, the
competitive advantage alone.
It's just like why you startwith a handicap, uh, but I just
(03:10):
never would have known that.
So grew up, uh, born and raisedCalifornia, um, grew up pretty
conservative, uh, religiousconservative and um, and had a
lot of life happen to me sincethen.
Cory Moore (03:24):
Yeah, Well, that's what we're here to talk about.
Is the life part?
Yeah?
Matthew Poll (03:28):
right and I got a sense of that with your.
You're right, I did like thisAI audit.
I got a real good sense of likethis podcast and I like how off
the hinges you guys go.
I like how unscripted you are.
Yeah, I'm really excited to dothat with you.
Cory Moore (03:49):
Well, we kind of started with hey, let's teach
our kids how to be gentlemenwhich turned into.
Let's teach our kids how to begood people which turned into.
Let's ask people like whatmakes them them and what they're
trying to teach their kids, andso that's kind of what the
podcast turned into.
The Gentleman Project podcastturned into something a little
bigger than being a gentleman.
Podcast turned into thegentleman project podcast turned
into something a little biggerthan being a gentleman.
So what kind of things did youlearn growing up from your folks
, from your reading, from yourfriends that kind of made you
(04:13):
who you are today in your mind?
Matthew Poll (04:15):
Yeah, I love that.
I think we all have these likehidden mentors, that if you go
back you're like, oh interesting, that person and the idea of
who I thought they were reallybecame the model of who I became
.
Yeah for sure, and I would sayfrom like a religious context, a
lot of those were the leadersof men that I watched.
(04:37):
You know they say it takes atown to raise a child and it
really does Like it wasn't justmy dad who was like the figure
of like what it meant to raise achild and it really does Like
it wasn't just my dad who waslike the figure of like what it
meant to be a man.
It was the leaders that wereconstantly working with me and,
some cases, other young adultsand, I think, more importantly,
(05:00):
the ones that I attached to andthought that's what it looks
like to be successful, that'swhat it looks like to be an
adult and doing it well, wherein a lot, of, a lot of times I
felt like my dad was also theexample of what not to do.
I don't know if you guys hadany of that.
Kirk Chugg (05:16):
Yeah, we've had quite a bit of that on the
podcast, yeah.
Matthew Poll (05:18):
And so it's kind of like a mix of both.
It's like, oh, I really likedthis, but I would also see the
thing that perpetuated probablymy success the most was the
whatnot Like.
The things I watched my parentsstruggle with the most became
the thing I was committed tonever experience, and it was
definitely financial right.
It was definitely around moneyhaving even, at times, food
(05:41):
scarcity at the house where Iwasn't privy to that.
But I could see the emotionbehind my mom and my dad having
these arguments and my mom justlike in tears sometimes about
what I could understand was hadsomething to do with money.
And then later to find out asan adult it was like, yeah, we
(06:01):
were getting food assistance andlike my dad was really
struggling in certain times inmy life to like even put food on
the table.
Kirk Chugg (06:10):
So it's like no wonder.
Matthew Poll (06:11):
no wonder I became who I became.
Cory Moore (06:13):
Right there were definitely for good or bad
motivation that helped me there,so that pushed you into being
an entrepreneur, I would imagine.
Matthew Poll (06:20):
For sure.
And I think if you look at thedata, it's pretty common.
Yeah, I'm not saying that weall had that story, but there's
usually some childhood traumathat actually drives us to be
these entrepreneurs.
And then we get the money, andthen we like, oh, this is, this
is why I do things the way I doit.
This is this, you know, and wehave the luxury to kind of step
(06:41):
back and maybe focus on thethings that matter more.
So I love it.
That's why I love this too.
I love this whole conversation.
Cory Moore (06:49):
It almost happens with every entrepreneur story
too.
Like, whatever reason theybecome an entrepreneur might be
a little different, but usuallythere's this give it everything,
I've got crazy amount of hoursfor X amount of time.
And then there's this I mademoney, and then I took step back
and I thought, oh, hours for Xamount of time.
And then there's this I mademoney and then I took step back
and I thought, oh man, I wish Iwould have done things a little
different during that time.
Sure, it made me who I am and Icouldn't look back to 2020
(07:12):
unless I had done that.
But now that I can, I see theworld a little different, right?
Kirk Chugg (07:25):
Yeah.
So, Matt, when you were talkingabout when you were young, you
had this idea of what youthought it was like to be a
successful man.
I'm just curious, like paintthat picture, Like I could
almost tell that you like hadsomebody in your mind like
that's who I want to be like.
Matthew Poll (07:34):
What did that guy look like?
Yeah, no, it's like.
Immediately you said it.
It's like, oh yeah, it's Mark.
It's Mark Larson.
You know credit to Mark.
I don't know if you'll everhear this, but uh, he was an
orthodontist.
You know, he was actually goingthrough dental school when I
first met him beautiful wife,two young kids and had an
(07:55):
incredible capacity to serve andhis, his family.
The larsons actually owned allthe scandias out in california.
It like a micro, it would belike Lagoon here, but there were
like two or three of them outthere.
Kirk Chugg (08:08):
Like an amusement park.
Matthew Poll (08:09):
Yeah, huge micro amusement parks.
When I say micro, because inCalifornia it's like Disneyland.
Kirk Chugg (08:15):
Yeah.
Matthew Poll (08:16):
And there was just something about him and he had
had a life altering experienceas a child Almost died when he
was like eight.
So I think it gave him a reallyunique perspective on life at a
very young age and I would watchhim among other men and there
was this grace, kind of thisrespect for life, that the
(08:43):
little things didn't get pasthim for life.
That the little things didn'tget past him.
I would watch him work with someof my friends that would like
even hated him, you know, like,did not like him because he was,
in a way, he was kind of thepicture of something perfect in
a way, from our view and how, asa teenager, you kind of
rebellious teenager, it's like,oh yeah, I don't want anything
(09:05):
to do with that, like that's theopposite, that's the
counterculture I'm trying tocreate and I would watch him
just love them in a way that wasso profound that even like I
remember one of them, one of mybuddies, andy, he came to me he
was like, oh, I just likeeveryone, but Mark Like this
thing.
It's interesting like why howcould you not like this guy?
(09:30):
Right?
And I would watch Mark workwith him.
And this is me, being ateenager, like observing this,
and he was just always available, like so gracious with his time
and like on his level and, andI remember there's this moment I
don't remember it was a campingtrip or something happened
where he like turned and he waslike, yeah, like Mark really
(09:52):
gets me.
And I really feel like like fromthat day on they were buddies
and just like that kind ofinvestment in the youth and that
kind of investment in young men.
Uh, I never got over and I wantto say I have like an addiction
help young people.
But there's like thisinteresting I love the teenage
(10:13):
years for young men.
For some reason.
I've always, it's always been athing for me.
It's always like that's mygroup, that's my, that's the
place I'll probably have thebiggest contribution, my, that's
the place I'll probably havethe biggest contribution, and it
just uh, I have two boys,circumstantially now, you know,
and they're going into teenageyears and it's really
interesting to see, you know,their mother, uh is very great
(10:38):
mother.
By the way, we're not married.
We're not married anymore.
Um and I'll I'll admit namesjust for her sake right.
But we have such a greatrelationship and we co-parent so
well.
But there's just somethingdifferent that a male provides
kids and I have the benefit ofseeing so many broken families
(11:01):
where the male steps out,families where the male steps
out and then the kids get thelack of having that relationship
and the effects.
They go so much further thanthe statistics, so much further
than, like, the data that showsthat they're gonna.
You know, there's a higherprobability of them ending up in
incarcerated or not beingformally educated or not in this
(11:25):
income bracket.
Yeah, those data points are allthere, but it just goes so much
further than that, like theemotional impact the emotional
side of it, yeah.
And then who they become and whothey influence later and the
rolling effect of this.
It's tragic, but also somethingI'm just completely committed
(11:46):
to not have happen.
Most, first and foremost, mykids, my boys, and then when I
have time, it's like I lovegiving to that community, like
that's my home.
Kirk Chugg (11:57):
I think that kind of lends to the conversation of
why these mentors like Mark wereso important to you, because in
a lot of these young men'slives maybe they have had a
father who's had to, you know,step back.
That's like maybe partialcustody, or they don't have this
continuing influence on a dailybasis from someone who has
(12:17):
completely and 100% checked intotheir lives or can't check into
their lives.
And so these mentorshipsthrough church groups or sports
coaching high school sports Iknow that's where a lot of
people get their male mentorshipis the approval of their
(12:38):
coaches and that's such animportant thing for them in
their lives to have that male torecognize.
Maybe part of Matt Matt's storyand his friend's story is you
(13:11):
know, I serve with the youth andsometimes I'm like they don't
like me at all, right, you knowthey, they would rather not be
here, they would rather beanywhere but here, right, and
sometimes it feels like wastedtime.
But here, right, and sometimesit feels like wasted time, um,
but your, your story there kindof gives me some some hope and
(13:31):
some some gas in my tank to tokeep going and and plugging
through some of those toughtimes well and it's a.
Matthew Poll (13:35):
It's really a tragedy.
Like I was part of the scoutingprogram.
Like hardcore yeah, and youserved in the scouting program
eagle scout like 17 yearsafterwards right right years
after served in it and to seethese like there's obvious
reasons that we see theseorganizations kind of rise and
fall.
(13:55):
There's a lot of cloudiness inthat organization.
There's a lot of things thathappened that like have painted
a really ugly picture on thescouting program acknowledged
and the benefits.
It's like we're what are wedoing now for the youth, where
(14:16):
we get together and we haveorganized structure to teach
them the men, how to be men,women how to be women and Really
raise self-esteem?
I would say that's probably thebiggest problem is we just are
lacking structure around how toraise the self-esteem of our
young people and as a byproduct,I just saw this study that was
(14:37):
bizarre.
I don't know if you guys sawthis, but they interviewed all
the next Gen Y.
Now what's the new generationwe're at now?
I can't remember what it'scalled.
It's not Gen C, it's not Gen Y,but you guys know what I'm
talking about the newestgeneration, gen Zero, I think,
is what they're calling it Zeroyeah.
So they interviewed and did thesurvey and there are two data
(14:58):
points that I saw that was justmind-blowing.
The first was like 80 pluspercent of this generation feels
exhausted.
They feel overworked andexhausted.
And then the next question thatI read was how many hours are
they working a week?
And it was like 30.
And I was just like having thislike existential crisis of like
(15:19):
wait a minute, they'reoverworked, they're feeling
exhausted, but their workload islike half what I was doing.
At their age.
I was busting my ass at aconstruction company, working 60
hours a week.
Excuse my French, but it's likethat's what was happening,
that's what was real and it'slike what's happened.
What's happened to theself-esteem of our youth.
Cory Moore (15:41):
Do you think it's social media-based?
Because that's where my mindautomatically goes.
I have kids that are in theirteenage years my oldest is super
busy now, but kids that are intheir teenage years and my
oldest is super busy now butwhen she was a senior in high
school, she would come home andshe'd be like, well, I don't
have time to do my homework andI need to do this.
And I'm like, well, you don'thave a job, you have a pastime,
which is theater, which she wasway into, and I finally got into
(16:03):
her social media, even with mylimits.
I'm like, babe, you spent likesix hours total today on social
media, so of course you didn'thave time.
Matthew Poll (16:15):
You were on social .
Cory Moore (16:16):
You were on social media for six hours in one day.
That's, and I'm my mind justautomatically went to.
Well, if you cut out somesocial media, I'm not saying
social media is all bad, I'mjust saying that anything over
an hour probably you're notbeing efficient with your time.
Matthew Poll (16:33):
Yeah, yeah, Like.
Yeah, we just saw with Tik TOKa 12 hour shutdown.
It's crazy.
I thought at my house.
The world ended, really, yeah.
It was like everyone's checkingeach other's is you're still
working?
Oh, mine kind of still works.
You know mine?
Oh, no, it's out now.
It was like the world endedyesterday, yeah, yeah.
(16:54):
And now Trump's like the world'shero for bringing back social
media on a platform that,frankly, I I'm not quite sure
Some reservations about.
Well, we, it doesn't.
You don't have to look hard tofind the data on social media.
(17:16):
You don't have to look hard,yeah, in terms of mental health,
and I think, yes, I think theanswer is yes.
I think social media is ashortcut to building self-esteem
, because if I can get adopamine hit, that takes me now.
In fact, I'll quote one of mykids well, I just don't like
Instagram because it justdoesn't do it for me.
It's like, yeah, yeah, we'veraised like our, our ability and
our attention span has got cutprobably by a fourth.
(17:37):
Where instagram was at leastslow swiping, now we're like
speed swiping.
It's like if this thing doesn'tcatch me in 15 seconds, I'm out
or less.
Kirk Chugg (17:46):
Yeah, like if it's more than four or five seconds
long, it's like it's too long.
Matthew Poll (17:50):
So I think we're just on the worst drug and
China's feeding it.
I don't want to be politicalabout this, but it's like and
China's feeding it.
And one of the funnest things Isaw is a friend said he went,
got a VPN or something, set hisnew TikTok account up in China
and he was like.
It was like I was on adifferent platform because what
(18:13):
they're feeding their people.
Kirk Chugg (18:15):
Like science, and technology and STEM Versus what?
Matthew Poll (18:17):
we're getting.
It's like, it's like they'relike our kids are getting I
don't know how else to say it,but they're getting like heroin
and like the people over therethat they have all these filters
or T.
Yeah, they're teaching them howto the people over there that
they have all these filters, or,yeah, they're teaching them how
to their kids, how to like,have jobs and like have
patriotism and like learn aboutfinance and science?
No serious, it's a totallydifferent platform and their
(18:40):
limits are actually ran by thecountry right, not the parents
right.
so yes, I I think there'ssomething there, for sure, yeah.
Cory Moore (18:50):
So tell us more about how you're a tech guy.
So AI technology tell us about.
How is that affecting our kidsin your mind, or do you have an
opinion on that Really?
Matthew Poll (19:01):
Yeah, yeah, I do.
I was on the phone with mykid's mom actually, yeah, cause
they're.
They're not in high school Oncefinishing his last year,
elementary one's middle ofmiddle school so pretty early
still for that.
So like, I think, high school.
We start seeing a lot of thisai conversation happening.
But it is happening in middleschool to the degree my kids
(19:22):
know how to use it.
They know how to use it to askquestions, help them with their
homework, even, to some degree,assignments.
But it's not quite high schoollevel where kids are straight up
having it do their assignmentsand their mom and I kind of go
back and forth because we reallydon't know what to do at this
point.
We don't know what the data isgoing to be, we don't know what
the future is going to look like.
(19:44):
But it's my opinion, to embraceit completely, which is pretty
controversial.
To embrace it completely, whichis pretty controversial, and
what I mean by that is I thinkyou need to have basic formal
education, scholastics.
You know reading, writing,arithmetic.
I think we need to have that.
But like, the level at which weregurgitate or have
(20:08):
regurgitated information in thepast is completely unimportant
to our future.
That's how.
That's how I would say it.
Like a good example would belike your phone, like if I asked
you what your wife's phonenumber is, could you tell me?
Cory Moore (20:25):
Yes, I'm old enough that I can because she's had it
pre smartphone.
Matthew Poll (20:30):
Okay, it's been that long I can Because she's
had it pre-smartphone Okay, butI can't tell you my kids'
numbers.
Cory Moore (20:34):
No, I can't tell you my kids' numbers who.
I call multiple text and callmultiple times a day.
Matthew Poll (20:40):
to your point, yeah, and I think our generation
, and I think we're part of thatsame generation where we had,
like, our top 10 years ago.
Cory Moore (20:47):
Right, you just had them memorized and you just had
them, and that was.
I have more gray than you,that's for sure.
Kirk Chugg (20:53):
Yeah, we're not using that part of our brain
anymore because we don't have to.
Matthew Poll (20:56):
Right, but it I remember when it happened,
people were like, oh no, no, youstill need to memorize people's
number.
And there was like a lot ofarguing about completely
inconsequential arguments.
We're like, yes, it's going totake over jobs.
Yes, we're not going to thinkabout certain things the same
(21:18):
way we used to, but we willstill be thinking, just on a
much higher level.
And it's like, if you're notusing the tools, if you're not
integrated, then, you're justliving on another planet.
I mean, it'll be like that.
Cory Moore (21:32):
I mean, if knowledge is power, okay, well, it's
never been easier to get theknowledge in the history of the
world.
I mean even with the internet.
I think AI is even moreefficient than we've ever seen.
Getting knowledge.
You can get any knowledge youwant as fast as you can almost
imagine it, right, yep.
But are you actually gettingthe knowledge?
(21:54):
Cause you can also get just getcrap.
I think you called it heroinearlier.
Right, it's just as easy to getthat also.
So you kind of need to.
It's almost like we need toteach our kids.
Well, why don't you focus ongetting the right info?
Sure, like the Chinese weredoing?
Sure, get the right info inyour brain.
And then one other comment Ihave and I think I've talked
(22:14):
about this at work, becausewe're integrating AI as fast as
we can right, as fast as thedata we can put in will allow us
to get it back out.
But it also makes humaninteraction, I think, more
important than ever.
Also makes human interaction, Ithink, more important than ever
, meaning I can write thegreatest in five minutes.
(22:35):
I can write the greatest letteryou've ever read Sales letter.
You name it An email, perfect,copilot, just hit a button.
So the written communication, inmy opinion, is going to mean
nothing.
A five-year-old can write agreat letter to a CEO about why
they should hire my company.
That takes no brain cells,right.
(22:56):
But once you walk in that room,once you pick up the phone,
that's going to be, in myopinion, more important than it
has been the last couple ofdecades, because that'll be the
differentiator.
That's the differentiator.
What else is there?
Right, and it wasn't likewritten communication in the
(23:17):
last 20, 30 years has been a bigdeal.
Right Because email emailbecame written communication
even even more important than itused to be, because we we
stopped doing phone calls and westarted doing emails.
Right.
Well, I think it's going toflip back to interpersonal
relationship and ability tocommunicate is going to be key
(23:37):
because anyone can write.
Kirk Chugg (23:39):
Anyway, that's just a thought I had on it, Matt's
like no, they're going to havevideos of your face and your
lips.
Cory Moore (23:45):
He's probably like well, I know way more than you
do.
Matthew Poll (23:49):
No, I'm not disagreeing.
I I think you're right To adegree.
I think you're absolutely rightto a degree, like to the point
my son calls me the other dayand it's the most bizarre thing
and I actually remember myparents doing this with me where
, like, I was like eight and Iwas like, hey mom, can you, can
you call so-and-so to see if hecan come over, cause I didn't
(24:11):
want to call over there and andget their mom or dad on the
phone and not know what to sayand feeling all dirt right, my
mom's like no you're going tocall them honey.
Cory Moore (24:18):
Oh, that's awesome.
Matthew Poll (24:19):
And then walked me through how to start a
conversation on the phone justbasic phone etiquette.
But to your point, my son callsme and this was probably like
six months ago, and when we calleach other, you know there's
formality to it.
Oh hi, this is Matt.
Is this so-and-so Like?
(24:40):
Oh, yes, oh, so-and-so speaking, right, Like we just naturally
do that, Our kids.
There's no programming aroundthis.
My son calls me and he's likehey, I'm like.
Click calls me back.
Hey, what'd you hang up on me?
I was like listen, like I don'tknow if you do this with your
friends or like what's going onhere, but like you clearly do
(25:01):
not know how to like communicateon the phone.
So from now on, if you don'tcommunicate this certain way,
I'm going going to hang up andlike that was my I love this for
you, so then I hung up he callsback and he's like struggling
right.
The first time he's like hey,dad, um, hey, I've got this
thing.
Nope, click calls me back.
(25:22):
He's like I don't get it.
What am I doing wrong?
Like, okay, it's just reallysimple.
It's like introduce who you areand who you're looking for, and
when you pick up a random call,it's always you answer with
your name, so the person on theother side knows they either
have the right person or not.
It just shortcuts things.
So, anyways, we go through thisexercise and now it's easy for
him.
He's like hey, hey, dad, it'syour son, enzo.
(25:44):
You know I've got this thing.
Oh, okay, okay, but I'll listento, like, how they communicate
with their friends and theverbal communication piece is
completely missing.
I agree and it makes senseTotally makes sense.
Everything's in text,everything's in text,
everything's in forwardingmessages and emojis and memes
and it's like, wait, do we evenneed to talk anymore?
(26:06):
But then when they get in thereal world, it's like yeah, I
think we do.
Cory Moore (26:11):
And my son.
I've had to have that sameconversation with my teenager.
Matthew Poll (26:14):
Yeah, I when I call him what do you want, dad
Whoa?
Cory Moore (26:21):
You know what Corey's face is.
Are you kidding me?
I said, bud, that's not how wedo this.
Sorry, dad, sorry, hi dad.
How can I help you?
But he's so used to like, whyare?
Kirk Chugg (26:34):
you?
He's basically like a why areyou calling me?
Couldn't you just text me?
Is this an emergency?
Cory Moore (26:36):
Yeah, I don't understand why you're, why
you're calling me.
You know, anyway, I've had tohave those same conversations
with my kids Like explain theetiquette of phone calls.
The other thing is, is the newgeneration?
I won't speak any names at mycompany, but inside our company
I'm finding myself having tohave those same conversations
Like hey, um, did you call them?
(26:58):
Well, I texted him.
But did you call him?
Well, I emailed them.
Yeah, you're not listening towhat is kind of the words that
are coming out of my mouth.
I want you to call them, I wantyou to explain the situation.
I want to ask for the sale.
I want you to ask for a numberhere.
I want you right, and it'sactually pretty crazy how, at
(27:18):
all costs, some of ourassociates will not pick up the
phone.
Matthew Poll (27:22):
Oh yeah.
Cory Moore (27:23):
Let alone I imagine we don't have these
conversations as much let aloneget in the car, make an
appointment and go see theperson, especially for the
younger generation.
They're just not used to it.
They've never been taught that.
Kirk Chugg (27:35):
Okay, so we've identified the problem right.
Cory Moore (27:39):
What is?
Kirk Chugg (27:41):
the solution.
I think Matt's got a good ideaof like some some basic training
, right, sure, of putting yourarm around your kid and saying,
hey, when you call me, this wayI want you to sound like when
you call, because it's going toserve you well in your life,
right?
So some basic micro training,maybe incorporating this into
some trainings in your companies.
(28:01):
But as we raise the nextgeneration of kids and all of
the communication is notinterpersonal and it's only
going to get more and more thatway.
I think for me, I have, I guess,four teenagers.
(28:23):
One of them is technically not ateenager because she doesn't
live with me anymore, but, um,when, when you meet my sons at
least, um, interpersonal skillshas been kind of a thing of the
gentlemen project from thebeginning, like when you meet my
son, so look you in the eye,tell you their name, shake your
hand firmly, you know, and, andask something about you or or
(28:46):
something like that.
And just that little thing ofbeing able to introduce yourself
with a name or call somebody byname Nice to meet you, jeff Is
such a differentiator in thatgeneration that I often get
texts after I introduce my sonsto other people and they'll say
man, what nice kids you have.
(29:08):
They're so well behaved andtheir interpersonal skills are
amazing.
I'm like all they did wasintroduce themselves to you, and
so I think, pitching this toour kids as hey, you want a
superpower, let me teach you asuperpower, because this one is
going to set you apart from 95%of the kids your age Right and
(29:29):
and give them the opportunity tolearn.
It's not hard to learn.
It's hard to practice, but it'snot hard to learn what has to
be done.
The most enjoyable people to bearound are those who make you
feel important.
So if you, you can give yourkids that leg up of this is how
(29:49):
you make someone else feelimportant when you meet them,
then they will become one of themost attractive people in their
circle.
Matthew Poll (29:59):
So why do you think like what's changed?
Why?
Why aren't parents motivated oror positioned in a way to do
this for their kids anymore?
Like what's happened I don'twant to say like we're raising
weak men, but I'd be an idiotnot to say that it's so easy to
(30:23):
see.
Like what has happened toparents, what's happened to
fathers where our motivationshifted at some point and I'm
not saying I'm this way, I'mjust seeing as a generality
there's a lack of teaching ourkids to have some grit.
There's a lack of teaching ourboys to have self-esteem.
(30:46):
There's a lack.
I don't know what it is.
Is it that we're so worriedabout being their friends?
We're so worried that societyis going to cancel us?
I don't know.
I don't know.
Cory Moore (30:58):
I think that's a great question.
I think your friend thing whenI talk about it, when I see
parents with their kids are kindof a little out there.
Matthew Poll (31:06):
Yeah.
Cory Moore (31:07):
It's.
Usually it looks as though theparents are trying to be their
friend first, instead of theirparent first and their friend
second.
But the why is a good question.
I think I'm not sure I know thewhy behind that general
behavior.
Sure, and again, I thinkthere's lots of purposeful
parents out there that are doingit, that aren't doing that
Right.
There are a lot of purposefulparents out there that we've
(31:27):
talked to on the podcast havebeen focused, but there are a
lot and these are good peoplethat have jobs and are smart and
are, you know, didn't grew upin a great home and all that
kind of stuff, Right Causethere's a lot to be said about.
Most of the world doesn't havethat.
Quite frankly, a lot of theworld doesn't even have the
(31:48):
foundation.
But for those who have thisfoundation of being brought up
with some accountability andsome manners and some lessons
learned, I don't know the why.
I think that's a fantasticquestion.
Kirk Chugg (32:00):
I think that our generation will be studied for
decades to come because we werethe first generation that grew
up analog, that turned digital.
Matthew Poll (32:09):
Like we're all in our forties, in the middle of it
.
Kirk Chugg (32:12):
We're in the middle, so we knew what it was like to
grow up with a rotary telephoneor a telephone at all in the
home and no internet.
And our kids will never knowthat and I don't know if there's
some.
I mean, I'm sure that there'sstudies currently being done
about our generation and ourability.
Like it's way easier tocommunicate now than it used to
(32:34):
be.
You know, I remember I gotmarried to my wife and she had
these funky motorola phones thathad like this over the air
walkie-talkie thing on the sideand I said, whoa, that's really
cool, like you can.
you don't even have to call them, you just push the button and
it's like a walkie-talkie andyou can use the gmre network or
whatever it was was it so youknow we're looking at technology
(32:58):
like that and now I think wejust embrace all technology and
I'm not saying that we shouldn't, but we are leaving behind some
very important interpersonalskills that I think when we
don't practice, we do not buildthe resiliency in our kids and
we don't build the confidence inour kids to be able to like
stand up and and be themselvesin public.
Matthew Poll (33:23):
I wonder, like my my mind wonders if I've heard so
many interesting quotes about,like the reason our kids don't
have self-esteem is because our,as parents, we we steal it from
them Like every opportunity forour kids to build self-esteem.
The reason they don't isbecause, as parents, we actually
steal it.
I mean, like we take it forthem Like every opportunity for
our kids to build self-esteem.
Kirk Chugg (33:41):
The reason they don't is because, as parents, we
actually steal it.
Matthew Poll (33:42):
I mean, like we take it for ourselves, make it
easy, we shortcut it we for ourown self-esteem reasons, to make
us look good for our own ego.
You know purpose.
But for like kids for my boys,like I, have this like really
strong belief.
Like if I don't train them orif I don't at least treat them
as hard as the world's going tobe in my house, I've done them a
(34:03):
huge disservice and I don'tknow where that came from, how I
got that belief, but I do notsee that as a general consensus
among fathers in the home.
I mean, I do not see that theyactually believe it's their job
to make it hard, at least ashard as the real world's going
(34:24):
to be, meaning like you'resetting up situations for
self-esteem that would have themfail.
Like you'd almost intentionallylook for opportunities for them
to go out and fail rather thanplaying a league that's so low
that they're always winning,rather than playing a league
that's so low that they'realways winning.
You know what I mean and I'vegot incredible boys, so I'll
(34:45):
caveat that with this.
I have incredible boys and theyhave breakdowns that are so
hard sometimes that I just wantto scoop them up and like
shortcut it.
And I find I have to like putmyself in check sometimes to do
that, rather than going to theteacher myself and like dealing
with this thing, have my son doit, or there's a kid at school
(35:08):
is bullying him or whatever, andit's rather than me get in the
middle of that.
Use these as opportunities tohave him learn how to deal with
the real world in hardcircumstances, and I think
there's always an opportunitywhere we do have to come in the
middle, right, but for the mostpart I've found that we don't,
(35:30):
and it's, I think, harder to sayno, I won't help than it is.
I will right now and take theshortcut the payoff, the payoff,
but long-term this is going tocost my kid a lot.
Cory Moore (35:44):
I think it takes some discipline, certainly for a
parent.
When you just said that, Ithought to myself when am I not
making it hard on purpose, orwhen am I?
It's usually when it's easierfor me.
That's the why for me and Ithink that's probably true for a
lot of parents is well, it'sjust easier if I do it or it's
just easier if I don't make ithard.
(36:06):
It takes more effort on my partin order to purposefully let
them get scratched up and failand whatever right.
And so I think the times that Ido it right which hopefully is
more than not, but the times Ido it right, which hopefully is
more than not, but the times Ido it right I just need to have
my mental.
You know, I didn't evenmentally be thinking to myself
okay, you're getting them ready.
Matthew Poll (36:27):
Yeah.
Cory Moore (36:28):
You're doing this on purpose.
They need to get hurt.
They need to hit the bumperrails, right, and you don't want
them to completely fall off theside of the mountain, right,
like there is a point where aparent says, okay, I'm going to
grab you and pull you back in,but you want them to hit those
guardrails, like you're saying,as as often as they can.
(36:49):
Because, to your point I thinkyou made a great point.
There is what's our job asparents?
Get them ready to not need usanymore.
Yeah, to be self-reliant.
Yeah, right, right, that'sliterally our job is to make
them self-reliant.
Well, that's really hard,unless you have that in your
head.
Sometimes it's just easier.
Or sometimes you love them somuch you don't want them to have
to go through the hard stuff.
It's usually one of those twothings.
(37:10):
So how do you do that?
You just automatically had thatmindset.
Or and what are some examplesof, like you letting them?
You letting them hit theguardrails, as I'm calling it?
Matthew Poll (37:21):
It's funny you mention that I literally just
had one this week.
So Enzo, his mom and I decidedwe would get him a phone as a
carrot for his grades, and theagreement was simple it's all
A's one B.
Well, his one B is a C+ andthey plus and they quarters over
(37:42):
ended last Friday.
I'll just give you the resultFast forward.
He's not getting his phone.
Like sorry folks, this doesn'thave a happy ending, Maybe.
Yes, and it was really hard torob him, or you know, you always
hear these stories of like ohwell, he did as much as he could
, so I stepped in and did thedifference no like that's not
(38:03):
going to teach him anything theb was the difference
yeah, to your point.
The c or the c plus was exactlywhat he needed, right, and I
will tell you.
Last week.
So he had the c plus and he'slike what do I do?
Like, and he's great, like,he's pretty emotional about it.
Thought he was gonna make itand I was like well, it's not
(38:24):
over.
We're in the final stretch,dude, it's the last quarter, so
talk to your teacher.
There's a couple minutes on theboard.
Yep, that's what I said.
I said go talk to your teacher,see if there's something you
can do.
And he's like okay, okay, I waslike well, let's role play this
.
And so we're, coincidentallyenough, we're going on a hike to
Donut Falls I don't know if youguys know where that is and
(38:46):
it's all snowed in perfectenvironment.
We have like 45 minutes to thedrive.
And so I'm role playing thiswith my son and I have my other
son in the front seat.
He's listening to the wholething, thing.
He's trying to interject, tellanzo what to do, you know.
And, uh, we probablyrole-played it, I would say at
least 20 times, and I had tolike break it out for him, like
(39:09):
how to bring up the introduction, because, like this
conversation thing is very waymore difficult than it was for
us.
Like to to the point of, likewhat to say in the intro, how to
take responsibility for whathappened, like that was part of
it, like, and this is on me.
I kept telling him, like thoseare the key phrases, this is on
me, this is on me, this is on me.
(39:29):
And then ask an opened intoquestion, not a yes or no
question.
I mean, we were nailing thisand I'm in, you know, I have a
background sales, so I'm likereally trying to set him up for
success.
And so we got him to the pointwhere he was asking the teacher,
like what would you have me doto get a C plus to a B Rather
than?
Is there anything I can do,right, I mean?
(39:50):
So he nailed this thing, but atthe end of the day, there was
nothing he could do.
Like he gave it his final shotbut it was in the last quarter
of the last inning and so, likethe lesson now is not what do I
do in the last quarter and thelast inning, it's what could I
have done differently, what willyou do next quarter?
(40:12):
That's different and I thinkthat letting him have that
victory of doing what it takesto actually get the result is
going to be the biggest victory,and me not babysitting the path
.
Oh it, me and his mom will goback and forth on this one like,
well, we should make sure he'sdoing all of his assignments, we
should make sure that he'sdoing this, doing this, you know
(40:33):
, going through all the steps,and it's like no, we have the
goal.
Let's let him figure out themeans.
And if he does it by some crazymeans, that's real.
That's a real world.
Sometimes we pull things off ina really unorthodox way, but
let's let him figure that out.
And so it's actually kind ofeasier, because now it's like
(40:54):
set and I just let go of how thetyranny of how, as we talk
about in organizations, it's thetyranny of how to raise my kids
.
It's actually really easy.
The hard part is like watchingit and not wanting to jump in
and interject for my own selfish, self-esteem reasons, right,
cause I don't want to see himfail.
(41:14):
But if I do that, if I don't dothis, what was failures look
like when he's 20 or 30 or goingthrough, you know, like really
hard, hard decisions, big topics.
Kirk Chugg (41:27):
And he probably won't remember not getting his
phone for a semester and heprobably won't remember the C
plus, but he will remember the20 role plays that you did with
him in the car Like really, whenyou look back at it, like
what's the bookmark going to befor him in this memory?
He learned how to talk to anadult or someone in a superior
(41:48):
position to him to get somethingthat he felt like he needed.
Yeah, Right.
Matthew Poll (41:53):
And my younger son .
He was just so excited becausehe knew all the answers that we
had him do it at the end, alsoCause he like heard it so many
times.
Kirk Chugg (42:03):
I can do this.
Matthew Poll (42:04):
Let's see, and he's.
He nailed it, you know, firsttime.
That's great.
Kirk Chugg (42:07):
Yeah, this has been a great conversation.
It's been unique in that we'vewe've talked a little bit about
this technology side, which I'mglad that we touched on.
We might have to have you backon as AI continues to do our
kids' homework for them, sure,and talk to us a little bit
about how we can manage that asparents.
(42:28):
At the end of every podcast,because we're running out of
time here at the end of everypodcast, we ask our guests to
define what they think it meansto be a gentleman.
Would you do that for us, matt?
Matthew Poll (42:44):
Yeah, I'm going to tie it in to something I
identified about five years agoin terms of like a definition
for who I am for the world.
I think it perfectly ties intothis and so I'll say it that way
first and then I'll redefine itfor this question.
But I discovered about fiveyears ago who I am for the world
(43:07):
is that they get theirresponsible, and what I mean by
that is that you can't be avictim sometimes, but that the
vantage point, the observationpoint of always being
responsible and seeing some waythat you could have had an
impact in a positive way couldhave made the difference.
That's what I want the world towake up to, and so I would say
(43:30):
to be a gentleman would be verysimilar that your life, your
family, your relationship, theway your kids turn out is
actually your responsibility.
And that in the hardestcircumstances, where you think
you don't have impact, you stillmight have a 1% or a 2% threat
(43:52):
for the fathers who are derangedfrom children and, you know,
don't get to see their kids allthe time, you know don't have
the benefits that I have coparenting.
It's like you still have athread of responsibility to make
a positive impact and you can,and the fact that you can means
that you probably should.
Kirk Chugg (44:12):
Well said.
Cory Moore (44:14):
Yeah, I mean that's good for parenting, being a
gentleman in business, you nameit Right Don't, don't be the
victim and take responsibility.
I'm, I'm with you.
I think if you look at lifethat way, you're better off for
it.
And it doesn't meaneverything's your fault, it just
means that you could.
You should always look in themirror and say, well, what could
(44:34):
I have done different?
Even if it isn't a hundredpercent my fault, it's good.
What could I have donedifferent?
Even if it isn't 100% my fault,it's good.
Matthew, we could do anotherhour with you easy.
I think we only scratched thesurface with you, so we might
have to have him back.
That'd be great.
Thanks for your time today.
Kirk Chugg (44:49):
Yeah, pleasure guys, and thank you for listening to
the Gentlemen Project podcast.
If you felt like you needed toshare this with somebody today,
as you listened to this, or tooksomething away from this that
you're going to implement inyour life, we'd love to hear
about it.
Drop us a rating and review ifyou haven't done so.
On apple podcast, that helps usreach more people.
You give us a five-star ratingand review.
If you want to give us aone-star rating, we don't care
(45:09):
if you do it or not.
Cory Moore (45:11):
Where's the best place to find you, matthew?
Is it linkedin?
Is it somewhere else?
Matthew Poll (45:15):
I've got a channel on YouTube Market Pulse Podcast
.
It's a podcast, but if youthrow me in a Google search,
it's Matthew Poll P-O-L-L.
Kirk Chugg (45:24):
Perfect, awesome.
Thank you, Matthew, and we willtalk to you soon.
Thanks for spending your timewith us.
I'm Kirk Chugg.
Cory Moore (45:33):
I'm Cory Moore.
Have a great day, thank you.
Welcome to the Gentlemen Project Podcast.
I'm Cory Moore.
Kirk Chugg (00:04):
Kirk Chugg.
Today, Matthew Poll joins us inthe studio.
Matthew and I met each other acouple years ago.
He was on a panel for somecryptocurrency panels that we
were learning about crypto, andhe's big into a lot of tech.
As I've got to know him alittle bit better, he's got his
hands in many different firesand he's very smart.
(00:24):
He's involved here in the Utahscene.
We're excited to talk to him ona personal level, too, about
some of the things that he'slearned throughout his life,
both including how he was raisedand some of the things that
we've talked about in the past.
I'm really excited he has evendone he just told us he's done
(00:45):
an AI audit.
This is how he uses AI, this ishow we're all going to be using
AI and in 15 years we're goingto go.
Yeah, everybody used it thatway, dude On the Gentleman
Project podcast, to kind of getan idea of what we talk about.
So he knows and it's prettycool, pretty cool way to find
out.
So, matt, tell us a little bitabout yourself, your background,
(01:08):
your family and what's going onin your life right now.
Matthew Poll (01:11):
In the work front, the work scene here in Utah.
I'm involved in some SaaScompanies.
I know a company called GreenChart which is a charting
software company that we startedyears ago, and we have a
specialty project calledStrategy Suite, which is like a
community where traders can goand all the data around their
(01:32):
strategies that they're tradingactually gets shared with the
community and it becomes thiskind of like high-level
community-driven success poolwhere everyone knows going in,
everything they contributed isshared with the group but then,
as everyone shares with thegroup, the tide kind of lifts
for all the members.
So, anyways, doing that with agreen chart, you were right,
(01:54):
like on a I would say even apolitical front.
Uh, heavily involved in ai,heavily involved in the crypto
blockchain space, helped formthe blockchain.
Utah's coalition helped withthe AI policy group here in Utah
also.
So I love having my fingers inthat, because I really actually
love Utah.
(02:14):
I'm a California transplant,came from Southern California
about 20 years ago and came withkind of a chip on my shoulder
like an attitude Like, oh, like,I'm not going to like Utah,
yeah, like.
Kirk Chugg (02:24):
Oh, like, I'm not going to like Utah.
Matthew Poll (02:26):
Yeah, yeah, oh yeah.
And you see it a lot from thepeople that move here it's like
oh yeah, california is better,here's why Right.
It was like everything was acomparison to California.
And after about two years I waslike oh, I get it.
I get why Utah is so great.
I get why we don't want tochange these things.
I get why and you know, I wasraising a new family at the time
(02:47):
, looking for opportunities forgrowth as an entrepreneur.
And looking back at it now,there's no way I could have done
that in California.
And looking at the politics nowlike I would never go back, I'd
never recommend kids to go there.
You know what I mean.
Like like just the edge alone,uh, the advantage, the
competitive advantage alone.
It's just like why you startwith a handicap, uh, but I just
(03:10):
never would have known that.
So grew up, uh, born and raisedCalifornia, um, grew up pretty
conservative, uh, religiousconservative and um, and had a
lot of life happen to me sincethen.
Cory Moore (03:24):
Yeah, Well, that's what we're here to talk about.
Is the life part?
Yeah?
Matthew Poll (03:28):
right and I got a sense of that with your.
You're right, I did like thisAI audit.
I got a real good sense of likethis podcast and I like how off
the hinges you guys go.
I like how unscripted you are.
Yeah, I'm really excited to dothat with you.
Cory Moore (03:49):
Well, we kind of started with hey, let's teach
our kids how to be gentlemenwhich turned into.
Let's teach our kids how to begood people which turned into.
Let's ask people like whatmakes them them and what they're
trying to teach their kids, andso that's kind of what the
podcast turned into.
The Gentleman Project podcastturned into something a little
bigger than being a gentleman.
Podcast turned into thegentleman project podcast turned
into something a little biggerthan being a gentleman.
So what kind of things did youlearn growing up from your folks
, from your reading, from yourfriends that kind of made you
(04:13):
who you are today in your mind?
Matthew Poll (04:15):
Yeah, I love that.
I think we all have these likehidden mentors, that if you go
back you're like, oh interesting, that person and the idea of
who I thought they were reallybecame the model of who I became
.
Yeah for sure, and I would sayfrom like a religious context, a
lot of those were the leadersof men that I watched.
(04:37):
You know they say it takes atown to raise a child and it
really does Like it wasn't justmy dad who was like the figure
of like what it meant to raise achild and it really does Like
it wasn't just my dad who waslike the figure of like what it
meant to be a man.
It was the leaders that wereconstantly working with me and,
some cases, other young adultsand, I think, more importantly,
(05:00):
the ones that I attached to andthought that's what it looks
like to be successful, that'swhat it looks like to be an
adult and doing it well, wherein a lot, of, a lot of times I
felt like my dad was also theexample of what not to do.
I don't know if you guys hadany of that.
Kirk Chugg (05:16):
Yeah, we've had quite a bit of that on the
podcast, yeah.
Matthew Poll (05:18):
And so it's kind of like a mix of both.
It's like, oh, I really likedthis, but I would also see the
thing that perpetuated probablymy success the most was the
whatnot Like.
The things I watched my parentsstruggle with the most became
the thing I was committed tonever experience, and it was
definitely financial right.
It was definitely around moneyhaving even, at times, food
(05:41):
scarcity at the house where Iwasn't privy to that.
But I could see the emotionbehind my mom and my dad having
these arguments and my mom justlike in tears sometimes about
what I could understand was hadsomething to do with money.
And then later to find out asan adult it was like, yeah, we
(06:01):
were getting food assistance andlike my dad was really
struggling in certain times inmy life to like even put food on
the table.
Kirk Chugg (06:10):
So it's like no wonder.
Matthew Poll (06:11):
no wonder I became who I became.
Cory Moore (06:13):
Right there were definitely for good or bad
motivation that helped me there,so that pushed you into being
an entrepreneur, I would imagine.
Matthew Poll (06:20):
For sure.
And I think if you look at thedata, it's pretty common.
Yeah, I'm not saying that weall had that story, but there's
usually some childhood traumathat actually drives us to be
these entrepreneurs.
And then we get the money, andthen we like, oh, this is, this
is why I do things the way I doit.
This is this, you know, and wehave the luxury to kind of step
(06:41):
back and maybe focus on thethings that matter more.
So I love it.
That's why I love this too.
I love this whole conversation.
Cory Moore (06:49):
It almost happens with every entrepreneur story
too.
Like, whatever reason theybecome an entrepreneur might be
a little different, but usuallythere's this give it everything,
I've got crazy amount of hoursfor X amount of time.
And then there's this I mademoney, and then I took step back
and I thought, oh, hours for Xamount of time.
And then there's this I mademoney and then I took step back
and I thought, oh man, I wish Iwould have done things a little
different during that time.
Sure, it made me who I am and Icouldn't look back to 2020
(07:12):
unless I had done that.
But now that I can, I see theworld a little different, right?
Kirk Chugg (07:25):
Yeah.
So, Matt, when you were talkingabout when you were young, you
had this idea of what youthought it was like to be a
successful man.
I'm just curious, like paintthat picture, Like I could
almost tell that you like hadsomebody in your mind like
that's who I want to be like.
Matthew Poll (07:34):
What did that guy look like?
Yeah, no, it's like.
Immediately you said it.
It's like, oh yeah, it's Mark.
It's Mark Larson.
You know credit to Mark.
I don't know if you'll everhear this, but uh, he was an
orthodontist.
You know, he was actually goingthrough dental school when I
first met him beautiful wife,two young kids and had an
(07:55):
incredible capacity to serve andhis, his family.
The larsons actually owned allthe scandias out in california.
It like a micro, it would belike Lagoon here, but there were
like two or three of them outthere.
Kirk Chugg (08:08):
Like an amusement park.
Matthew Poll (08:09):
Yeah, huge micro amusement parks.
When I say micro, because inCalifornia it's like Disneyland.
Kirk Chugg (08:15):
Yeah.
Matthew Poll (08:16):
And there was just something about him and he had
had a life altering experienceas a child Almost died when he
was like eight.
So I think it gave him a reallyunique perspective on life at a
very young age and I would watchhim among other men and there
was this grace, kind of thisrespect for life, that the
(08:43):
little things didn't get pasthim for life.
That the little things didn'tget past him.
I would watch him work with someof my friends that would like
even hated him, you know, like,did not like him because he was,
in a way, he was kind of thepicture of something perfect in
a way, from our view and how, asa teenager, you kind of
rebellious teenager, it's like,oh yeah, I don't want anything
(09:05):
to do with that, like that's theopposite, that's the
counterculture I'm trying tocreate and I would watch him
just love them in a way that wasso profound that even like I
remember one of them, one of mybuddies, andy, he came to me he
was like, oh, I just likeeveryone, but Mark Like this
thing.
It's interesting like why howcould you not like this guy?
(09:30):
Right?
And I would watch Mark workwith him.
And this is me, being ateenager, like observing this,
and he was just always available, like so gracious with his time
and like on his level and, andI remember there's this moment I
don't remember it was a campingtrip or something happened
where he like turned and he waslike, yeah, like Mark really
(09:52):
gets me.
And I really feel like like fromthat day on they were buddies
and just like that kind ofinvestment in the youth and that
kind of investment in young men.
Uh, I never got over and I wantto say I have like an addiction
help young people.
But there's like thisinteresting I love the teenage
(10:13):
years for young men.
For some reason.
I've always, it's always been athing for me.
It's always like that's mygroup, that's my, that's the
place I'll probably have thebiggest contribution, my, that's
the place I'll probably havethe biggest contribution, and it
just uh, I have two boys,circumstantially now, you know,
and they're going into teenageyears and it's really
interesting to see, you know,their mother, uh is very great
(10:38):
mother.
By the way, we're not married.
We're not married anymore.
Um and I'll I'll admit namesjust for her sake right.
But we have such a greatrelationship and we co-parent so
well.
But there's just somethingdifferent that a male provides
kids and I have the benefit ofseeing so many broken families
(11:01):
where the male steps out,families where the male steps
out and then the kids get thelack of having that relationship
and the effects.
They go so much further thanthe statistics, so much further
than, like, the data that showsthat they're gonna.
You know, there's a higherprobability of them ending up in
incarcerated or not beingformally educated or not in this
(11:25):
income bracket.
Yeah, those data points are allthere, but it just goes so much
further than that, like theemotional impact the emotional
side of it, yeah.
And then who they become and whothey influence later and the
rolling effect of this.
It's tragic, but also somethingI'm just completely committed
(11:46):
to not have happen.
Most, first and foremost, mykids, my boys, and then when I
have time, it's like I lovegiving to that community, like
that's my home.
Kirk Chugg (11:57):
I think that kind of lends to the conversation of
why these mentors like Mark wereso important to you, because in
a lot of these young men'slives maybe they have had a
father who's had to, you know,step back.
That's like maybe partialcustody, or they don't have this
continuing influence on a dailybasis from someone who has
(12:17):
completely and 100% checked intotheir lives or can't check into
their lives.
And so these mentorshipsthrough church groups or sports
coaching high school sports Iknow that's where a lot of
people get their male mentorshipis the approval of their
(12:38):
coaches and that's such animportant thing for them in
their lives to have that male torecognize.
Maybe part of Matt Matt's storyand his friend's story is you
(13:11):
know, I serve with the youth andsometimes I'm like they don't
like me at all, right, you knowthey, they would rather not be
here, they would rather beanywhere but here, right, and
sometimes it feels like wastedtime.
But here, right, and sometimesit feels like wasted time, um,
but your, your story there kindof gives me some some hope and
(13:31):
some some gas in my tank to tokeep going and and plugging
through some of those toughtimes well and it's a.
Matthew Poll (13:35):
It's really a tragedy.
Like I was part of the scoutingprogram.
Like hardcore yeah, and youserved in the scouting program
eagle scout like 17 yearsafterwards right right years
after served in it and to seethese like there's obvious
reasons that we see theseorganizations kind of rise and
fall.
(13:55):
There's a lot of cloudiness inthat organization.
There's a lot of things thathappened that like have painted
a really ugly picture on thescouting program acknowledged
and the benefits.
It's like we're what are wedoing now for the youth, where
(14:16):
we get together and we haveorganized structure to teach
them the men, how to be men,women how to be women and Really
raise self-esteem?
I would say that's probably thebiggest problem is we just are
lacking structure around how toraise the self-esteem of our
young people and as a byproduct,I just saw this study that was
(14:37):
bizarre.
I don't know if you guys sawthis, but they interviewed all
the next Gen Y.
Now what's the new generationwe're at now?
I can't remember what it'scalled.
It's not Gen C, it's not Gen Y,but you guys know what I'm
talking about the newestgeneration, gen Zero, I think,
is what they're calling it Zeroyeah.
So they interviewed and did thesurvey and there are two data
(14:58):
points that I saw that was justmind-blowing.
The first was like 80 pluspercent of this generation feels
exhausted.
They feel overworked andexhausted.
And then the next question thatI read was how many hours are
they working a week?
And it was like 30.
And I was just like having thislike existential crisis of like
(15:19):
wait a minute, they'reoverworked, they're feeling
exhausted, but their workload islike half what I was doing.
At their age.
I was busting my ass at aconstruction company, working 60
hours a week.
Excuse my French, but it's likethat's what was happening,
that's what was real and it'slike what's happened.
What's happened to theself-esteem of our youth.
Cory Moore (15:41):
Do you think it's social media-based?
Because that's where my mindautomatically goes.
I have kids that are in theirteenage years my oldest is super
busy now, but kids that are intheir teenage years and my
oldest is super busy now butwhen she was a senior in high
school, she would come home andshe'd be like, well, I don't
have time to do my homework andI need to do this.
And I'm like, well, you don'thave a job, you have a pastime,
which is theater, which she wasway into, and I finally got into
(16:03):
her social media, even with mylimits.
I'm like, babe, you spent likesix hours total today on social
media, so of course you didn'thave time.
Matthew Poll (16:15):
You were on social .
Cory Moore (16:16):
You were on social media for six hours in one day.
That's, and I'm my mind justautomatically went to.
Well, if you cut out somesocial media, I'm not saying
social media is all bad, I'mjust saying that anything over
an hour probably you're notbeing efficient with your time.
Matthew Poll (16:33):
Yeah, yeah, Like.
Yeah, we just saw with Tik TOKa 12 hour shutdown.
It's crazy.
I thought at my house.
The world ended, really, yeah.
It was like everyone's checkingeach other's is you're still
working?
Oh, mine kind of still works.
You know mine?
Oh, no, it's out now.
It was like the world endedyesterday, yeah, yeah.
(16:54):
And now Trump's like the world'shero for bringing back social
media on a platform that,frankly, I I'm not quite sure
Some reservations about.
Well, we, it doesn't.
You don't have to look hard tofind the data on social media.
(17:16):
You don't have to look hard,yeah, in terms of mental health,
and I think, yes, I think theanswer is yes.
I think social media is ashortcut to building self-esteem
, because if I can get adopamine hit, that takes me now.
In fact, I'll quote one of mykids well, I just don't like
Instagram because it justdoesn't do it for me.
It's like, yeah, yeah, we'veraised like our, our ability and
our attention span has got cutprobably by a fourth.
(17:37):
Where instagram was at leastslow swiping, now we're like
speed swiping.
It's like if this thing doesn'tcatch me in 15 seconds, I'm out
or less.
Kirk Chugg (17:46):
Yeah, like if it's more than four or five seconds
long, it's like it's too long.
Matthew Poll (17:50):
So I think we're just on the worst drug and
China's feeding it.
I don't want to be politicalabout this, but it's like and
China's feeding it.
And one of the funnest things Isaw is a friend said he went,
got a VPN or something, set hisnew TikTok account up in China
and he was like.
It was like I was on adifferent platform because what
(18:13):
they're feeding their people.
Kirk Chugg (18:15):
Like science, and technology and STEM Versus what?
Matthew Poll (18:17):
we're getting.
It's like, it's like they'relike our kids are getting I
don't know how else to say it,but they're getting like heroin
and like the people over therethat they have all these filters
or T.
Yeah, they're teaching them howto the people over there that
they have all these filters, or,yeah, they're teaching them how
to their kids, how to like,have jobs and like have
patriotism and like learn aboutfinance and science?
No serious, it's a totallydifferent platform and their
(18:40):
limits are actually ran by thecountry right, not the parents
right.
so yes, I I think there'ssomething there, for sure, yeah.
Cory Moore (18:50):
So tell us more about how you're a tech guy.
So AI technology tell us about.
How is that affecting our kidsin your mind, or do you have an
opinion on that Really?
Matthew Poll (19:01):
Yeah, yeah, I do.
I was on the phone with mykid's mom actually, yeah, cause
they're.
They're not in high school Oncefinishing his last year,
elementary one's middle ofmiddle school so pretty early
still for that.
So like, I think, high school.
We start seeing a lot of thisai conversation happening.
But it is happening in middleschool to the degree my kids
(19:22):
know how to use it.
They know how to use it to askquestions, help them with their
homework, even, to some degree,assignments.
But it's not quite high schoollevel where kids are straight up
having it do their assignmentsand their mom and I kind of go
back and forth because we reallydon't know what to do at this
point.
We don't know what the data isgoing to be, we don't know what
the future is going to look like.
(19:44):
But it's my opinion, to embraceit completely, which is pretty
controversial.
To embrace it completely, whichis pretty controversial, and
what I mean by that is I thinkyou need to have basic formal
education, scholastics.
You know reading, writing,arithmetic.
I think we need to have that.
But like, the level at which weregurgitate or have
(20:08):
regurgitated information in thepast is completely unimportant
to our future.
That's how.
That's how I would say it.
Like a good example would belike your phone, like if I asked
you what your wife's phonenumber is, could you tell me?
Cory Moore (20:25):
Yes, I'm old enough that I can because she's had it
pre smartphone.
Matthew Poll (20:30):
Okay, it's been that long I can Because she's
had it pre-smartphone Okay, butI can't tell you my kids'
numbers.
Cory Moore (20:34):
No, I can't tell you my kids' numbers who.
I call multiple text and callmultiple times a day.
Matthew Poll (20:40):
to your point, yeah, and I think our generation
, and I think we're part of thatsame generation where we had,
like, our top 10 years ago.
Cory Moore (20:47):
Right, you just had them memorized and you just had
them, and that was.
I have more gray than you,that's for sure.
Kirk Chugg (20:53):
Yeah, we're not using that part of our brain
anymore because we don't have to.
Matthew Poll (20:56):
Right, but it I remember when it happened,
people were like, oh no, no, youstill need to memorize people's
number.
And there was like a lot ofarguing about completely
inconsequential arguments.
We're like, yes, it's going totake over jobs.
Yes, we're not going to thinkabout certain things the same
(21:18):
way we used to, but we willstill be thinking, just on a
much higher level.
And it's like, if you're notusing the tools, if you're not
integrated, then, you're justliving on another planet.
I mean, it'll be like that.
Cory Moore (21:32):
I mean, if knowledge is power, okay, well, it's
never been easier to get theknowledge in the history of the
world.
I mean even with the internet.
I think AI is even moreefficient than we've ever seen.
Getting knowledge.
You can get any knowledge youwant as fast as you can almost
imagine it, right, yep.
But are you actually gettingthe knowledge?
(21:54):
Cause you can also get just getcrap.
I think you called it heroinearlier.
Right, it's just as easy to getthat also.
So you kind of need to.
It's almost like we need toteach our kids.
Well, why don't you focus ongetting the right info?
Sure, like the Chinese weredoing?
Sure, get the right info inyour brain.
And then one other comment Ihave and I think I've talked
(22:14):
about this at work, becausewe're integrating AI as fast as
we can right, as fast as thedata we can put in will allow us
to get it back out.
But it also makes humaninteraction, I think, more
important than ever.
Also makes human interaction, Ithink, more important than ever
, meaning I can write thegreatest in five minutes.
(22:35):
I can write the greatest letteryou've ever read Sales letter.
You name it An email, perfect,copilot, just hit a button.
So the written communication, inmy opinion, is going to mean
nothing.
A five-year-old can write agreat letter to a CEO about why
they should hire my company.
That takes no brain cells,right.
(22:56):
But once you walk in that room,once you pick up the phone,
that's going to be, in myopinion, more important than it
has been the last couple ofdecades, because that'll be the
differentiator.
That's the differentiator.
What else is there?
Right, and it wasn't likewritten communication in the
(23:17):
last 20, 30 years has been a bigdeal.
Right Because email emailbecame written communication
even even more important than itused to be, because we we
stopped doing phone calls and westarted doing emails.
Right.
Well, I think it's going toflip back to interpersonal
relationship and ability tocommunicate is going to be key
(23:37):
because anyone can write.
Kirk Chugg (23:39):
Anyway, that's just a thought I had on it, Matt's
like no, they're going to havevideos of your face and your
lips.
Cory Moore (23:45):
He's probably like well, I know way more than you
do.
Matthew Poll (23:49):
No, I'm not disagreeing.
I I think you're right To adegree.
I think you're absolutely rightto a degree, like to the point
my son calls me the other dayand it's the most bizarre thing
and I actually remember myparents doing this with me where
, like, I was like eight and Iwas like, hey mom, can you, can
you call so-and-so to see if hecan come over, cause I didn't
(24:11):
want to call over there and andget their mom or dad on the
phone and not know what to sayand feeling all dirt right, my
mom's like no you're going tocall them honey.
Cory Moore (24:18):
Oh, that's awesome.
Matthew Poll (24:19):
And then walked me through how to start a
conversation on the phone justbasic phone etiquette.
But to your point, my son callsme and this was probably like
six months ago, and when we calleach other, you know there's
formality to it.
Oh hi, this is Matt.
Is this so-and-so Like?
(24:40):
Oh, yes, oh, so-and-so speaking, right, Like we just naturally
do that, Our kids.
There's no programming aroundthis.
My son calls me and he's likehey, I'm like.
Click calls me back.
Hey, what'd you hang up on me?
I was like listen, like I don'tknow if you do this with your
friends or like what's going onhere, but like you clearly do
(25:01):
not know how to like communicateon the phone.
So from now on, if you don'tcommunicate this certain way,
I'm going going to hang up andlike that was my I love this for
you, so then I hung up he callsback and he's like struggling
right.
The first time he's like hey,dad, um, hey, I've got this
thing.
Nope, click calls me back.
(25:22):
He's like I don't get it.
What am I doing wrong?
Like, okay, it's just reallysimple.
It's like introduce who you areand who you're looking for, and
when you pick up a random call,it's always you answer with
your name, so the person on theother side knows they either
have the right person or not.
It just shortcuts things.
So, anyways, we go through thisexercise and now it's easy for
him.
He's like hey, hey, dad, it'syour son, enzo.
(25:44):
You know I've got this thing.
Oh, okay, okay, but I'll listento, like, how they communicate
with their friends and theverbal communication piece is
completely missing.
I agree and it makes senseTotally makes sense.
Everything's in text,everything's in text,
everything's in forwardingmessages and emojis and memes
and it's like, wait, do we evenneed to talk anymore?
(26:06):
But then when they get in thereal world, it's like yeah, I
think we do.
Cory Moore (26:11):
And my son.
I've had to have that sameconversation with my teenager.
Matthew Poll (26:14):
Yeah, I when I call him what do you want, dad
Whoa?
Cory Moore (26:21):
You know what Corey's face is.
Are you kidding me?
I said, bud, that's not how wedo this.
Sorry, dad, sorry, hi dad.
How can I help you?
But he's so used to like, whyare?
Kirk Chugg (26:34):
you?
He's basically like a why areyou calling me?
Couldn't you just text me?
Is this an emergency?
Cory Moore (26:36):
Yeah, I don't understand why you're, why
you're calling me.
You know, anyway, I've had tohave those same conversations
with my kids Like explain theetiquette of phone calls.
The other thing is, is the newgeneration?
I won't speak any names at mycompany, but inside our company
I'm finding myself having tohave those same conversations
Like hey, um, did you call them?
(26:58):
Well, I texted him.
But did you call him?
Well, I emailed them.
Yeah, you're not listening towhat is kind of the words that
are coming out of my mouth.
I want you to call them, I wantyou to explain the situation.
I want to ask for the sale.
I want you to ask for a numberhere.
I want you right, and it'sactually pretty crazy how, at
(27:18):
all costs, some of ourassociates will not pick up the
phone.
Matthew Poll (27:22):
Oh yeah.
Cory Moore (27:23):
Let alone I imagine we don't have these
conversations as much let aloneget in the car, make an
appointment and go see theperson, especially for the
younger generation.
They're just not used to it.
They've never been taught that.
Kirk Chugg (27:35):
Okay, so we've identified the problem right.
Cory Moore (27:39):
What is?
Kirk Chugg (27:41):
the solution.
I think Matt's got a good ideaof like some some basic training
, right, sure, of putting yourarm around your kid and saying,
hey, when you call me, this wayI want you to sound like when
you call, because it's going toserve you well in your life,
right?
So some basic micro training,maybe incorporating this into
some trainings in your companies.
(28:01):
But as we raise the nextgeneration of kids and all of
the communication is notinterpersonal and it's only
going to get more and more thatway.
I think for me, I have, I guess,four teenagers.
(28:23):
One of them is technically not ateenager because she doesn't
live with me anymore, but, um,when, when you meet my sons at
least, um, interpersonal skillshas been kind of a thing of the
gentlemen project from thebeginning, like when you meet my
son, so look you in the eye,tell you their name, shake your
hand firmly, you know, and, andask something about you or or
(28:46):
something like that.
And just that little thing ofbeing able to introduce yourself
with a name or call somebody byname Nice to meet you, jeff Is
such a differentiator in thatgeneration that I often get
texts after I introduce my sonsto other people and they'll say
man, what nice kids you have.
(29:08):
They're so well behaved andtheir interpersonal skills are
amazing.
I'm like all they did wasintroduce themselves to you, and
so I think, pitching this toour kids as hey, you want a
superpower, let me teach you asuperpower, because this one is
going to set you apart from 95%of the kids your age Right and
(29:29):
and give them the opportunity tolearn.
It's not hard to learn.
It's hard to practice, but it'snot hard to learn what has to
be done.
The most enjoyable people to bearound are those who make you
feel important.
So if you, you can give yourkids that leg up of this is how
(29:49):
you make someone else feelimportant when you meet them,
then they will become one of themost attractive people in their
circle.
Matthew Poll (29:59):
So why do you think like what's changed?
Why?
Why aren't parents motivated oror positioned in a way to do
this for their kids anymore?
Like what's happened I don'twant to say like we're raising
weak men, but I'd be an idiotnot to say that it's so easy to
(30:23):
see.
Like what has happened toparents, what's happened to
fathers where our motivationshifted at some point and I'm
not saying I'm this way, I'mjust seeing as a generality
there's a lack of teaching ourkids to have some grit.
There's a lack of teaching ourboys to have self-esteem.
(30:46):
There's a lack.
I don't know what it is.
Is it that we're so worriedabout being their friends?
We're so worried that societyis going to cancel us?
I don't know.
I don't know.
Cory Moore (30:58):
I think that's a great question.
I think your friend thing whenI talk about it, when I see
parents with their kids are kindof a little out there.
Matthew Poll (31:06):
Yeah.
Cory Moore (31:07):
It's.
Usually it looks as though theparents are trying to be their
friend first, instead of theirparent first and their friend
second.
But the why is a good question.
I think I'm not sure I know thewhy behind that general
behavior.
Sure, and again, I thinkthere's lots of purposeful
parents out there that are doingit, that aren't doing that
Right.
There are a lot of purposefulparents out there that we've
(31:27):
talked to on the podcast havebeen focused, but there are a
lot and these are good peoplethat have jobs and are smart and
are, you know, didn't grew upin a great home and all that
kind of stuff, Right Causethere's a lot to be said about.
Most of the world doesn't havethat.
Quite frankly, a lot of theworld doesn't even have the
(31:48):
foundation.
But for those who have thisfoundation of being brought up
with some accountability andsome manners and some lessons
learned, I don't know the why.
I think that's a fantasticquestion.
Kirk Chugg (32:00):
I think that our generation will be studied for
decades to come because we werethe first generation that grew
up analog, that turned digital.
Matthew Poll (32:09):
Like we're all in our forties, in the middle of it
.
Kirk Chugg (32:12):
We're in the middle, so we knew what it was like to
grow up with a rotary telephoneor a telephone at all in the
home and no internet.
And our kids will never knowthat and I don't know if there's
some.
I mean, I'm sure that there'sstudies currently being done
about our generation and ourability.
Like it's way easier tocommunicate now than it used to
(32:34):
be.
You know, I remember I gotmarried to my wife and she had
these funky motorola phones thathad like this over the air
walkie-talkie thing on the sideand I said, whoa, that's really
cool, like you can.
you don't even have to call them, you just push the button and
it's like a walkie-talkie andyou can use the gmre network or
whatever it was was it so youknow we're looking at technology
(32:58):
like that and now I think wejust embrace all technology and
I'm not saying that we shouldn't, but we are leaving behind some
very important interpersonalskills that I think when we
don't practice, we do not buildthe resiliency in our kids and
we don't build the confidence inour kids to be able to like
stand up and and be themselvesin public.
Matthew Poll (33:23):
I wonder, like my my mind wonders if I've heard so
many interesting quotes about,like the reason our kids don't
have self-esteem is because our,as parents, we we steal it from
them Like every opportunity forour kids to build self-esteem.
The reason they don't isbecause, as parents, we actually
steal it.
I mean, like we take it forthem Like every opportunity for
our kids to build self-esteem.
Kirk Chugg (33:41):
The reason they don't is because, as parents, we
actually steal it.
Matthew Poll (33:42):
I mean, like we take it for ourselves, make it
easy, we shortcut it we for ourown self-esteem reasons, to make
us look good for our own ego.
You know purpose.
But for like kids for my boys,like I, have this like really
strong belief.
Like if I don't train them orif I don't at least treat them
as hard as the world's going tobe in my house, I've done them a
(34:03):
huge disservice and I don'tknow where that came from, how I
got that belief, but I do notsee that as a general consensus
among fathers in the home.
I mean, I do not see that theyactually believe it's their job
to make it hard, at least ashard as the real world's going
(34:24):
to be, meaning like you'resetting up situations for
self-esteem that would have themfail.
Like you'd almost intentionallylook for opportunities for them
to go out and fail rather thanplaying a league that's so low
that they're always winning,rather than playing a league
that's so low that they'realways winning.
You know what I mean and I'vegot incredible boys, so I'll
(34:45):
caveat that with this.
I have incredible boys and theyhave breakdowns that are so
hard sometimes that I just wantto scoop them up and like
shortcut it.
And I find I have to like putmyself in check sometimes to do
that, rather than going to theteacher myself and like dealing
with this thing, have my son doit, or there's a kid at school
(35:08):
is bullying him or whatever, andit's rather than me get in the
middle of that.
Use these as opportunities tohave him learn how to deal with
the real world in hardcircumstances, and I think
there's always an opportunitywhere we do have to come in the
middle, right, but for the mostpart I've found that we don't,
(35:30):
and it's, I think, harder to sayno, I won't help than it is.
I will right now and take theshortcut the payoff, the payoff,
but long-term this is going tocost my kid a lot.
Cory Moore (35:44):
I think it takes some discipline, certainly for a
parent.
When you just said that, Ithought to myself when am I not
making it hard on purpose, orwhen am I?
It's usually when it's easierfor me.
That's the why for me and Ithink that's probably true for a
lot of parents is well, it'sjust easier if I do it or it's
just easier if I don't make ithard.
(36:06):
It takes more effort on my partin order to purposefully let
them get scratched up and failand whatever right.
And so I think the times that Ido it right which hopefully is
more than not, but the times Ido it right, which hopefully is
more than not, but the times Ido it right I just need to have
my mental.
You know, I didn't evenmentally be thinking to myself
okay, you're getting them ready.
Matthew Poll (36:27):
Yeah.
Cory Moore (36:28):
You're doing this on purpose.
They need to get hurt.
They need to hit the bumperrails, right, and you don't want
them to completely fall off theside of the mountain, right,
like there is a point where aparent says, okay, I'm going to
grab you and pull you back in,but you want them to hit those
guardrails, like you're saying,as as often as they can.
(36:49):
Because, to your point I thinkyou made a great point.
There is what's our job asparents?
Get them ready to not need usanymore.
Yeah, to be self-reliant.
Yeah, right, right, that'sliterally our job is to make
them self-reliant.
Well, that's really hard,unless you have that in your
head.
Sometimes it's just easier.
Or sometimes you love them somuch you don't want them to have
to go through the hard stuff.
It's usually one of those twothings.
(37:10):
So how do you do that?
You just automatically had thatmindset.
Or and what are some examplesof, like you letting them?
You letting them hit theguardrails, as I'm calling it?
Matthew Poll (37:21):
It's funny you mention that I literally just
had one this week.
So Enzo, his mom and I decidedwe would get him a phone as a
carrot for his grades, and theagreement was simple it's all
A's one B.
Well, his one B is a C+ andthey plus and they quarters over
(37:42):
ended last Friday.
I'll just give you the resultFast forward.
He's not getting his phone.
Like sorry folks, this doesn'thave a happy ending, Maybe.
Yes, and it was really hard torob him, or you know, you always
hear these stories of like ohwell, he did as much as he could
, so I stepped in and did thedifference no like that's not
(38:03):
going to teach him anything theb was the difference
yeah, to your point.
The c or the c plus was exactlywhat he needed, right, and I
will tell you.
Last week.
So he had the c plus and he'slike what do I do?
Like, and he's great, like,he's pretty emotional about it.
Thought he was gonna make itand I was like well, it's not
(38:24):
over.
We're in the final stretch,dude, it's the last quarter, so
talk to your teacher.
There's a couple minutes on theboard.
Yep, that's what I said.
I said go talk to your teacher,see if there's something you
can do.
And he's like okay, okay, I waslike well, let's role play this
.
And so we're, coincidentallyenough, we're going on a hike to
Donut Falls I don't know if youguys know where that is and
(38:46):
it's all snowed in perfectenvironment.
We have like 45 minutes to thedrive.
And so I'm role playing thiswith my son and I have my other
son in the front seat.
He's listening to the wholething, thing.
He's trying to interject, tellanzo what to do, you know.
And, uh, we probablyrole-played it, I would say at
least 20 times, and I had tolike break it out for him, like
(39:09):
how to bring up the introduction, because, like this
conversation thing is very waymore difficult than it was for
us.
Like to to the point of, likewhat to say in the intro, how to
take responsibility for whathappened, like that was part of
it, like, and this is on me.
I kept telling him, like thoseare the key phrases, this is on
me, this is on me, this is on me.
(39:29):
And then ask an opened intoquestion, not a yes or no
question.
I mean, we were nailing thisand I'm in, you know, I have a
background sales, so I'm likereally trying to set him up for
success.
And so we got him to the pointwhere he was asking the teacher,
like what would you have me doto get a C plus to a B Rather
than?
Is there anything I can do,right, I mean?
(39:50):
So he nailed this thing, but atthe end of the day, there was
nothing he could do.
Like he gave it his final shotbut it was in the last quarter
of the last inning and so, likethe lesson now is not what do I
do in the last quarter and thelast inning, it's what could I
have done differently, what willyou do next quarter?
(40:12):
That's different and I thinkthat letting him have that
victory of doing what it takesto actually get the result is
going to be the biggest victory,and me not babysitting the path
.
Oh it, me and his mom will goback and forth on this one like,
well, we should make sure he'sdoing all of his assignments, we
should make sure that he'sdoing this, doing this, you know
(40:33):
, going through all the steps,and it's like no, we have the
goal.
Let's let him figure out themeans.
And if he does it by some crazymeans, that's real.
That's a real world.
Sometimes we pull things off ina really unorthodox way, but
let's let him figure that out.
And so it's actually kind ofeasier, because now it's like
(40:54):
set and I just let go of how thetyranny of how, as we talk
about in organizations, it's thetyranny of how to raise my kids
.
It's actually really easy.
The hard part is like watchingit and not wanting to jump in
and interject for my own selfish, self-esteem reasons, right,
cause I don't want to see himfail.
(41:14):
But if I do that, if I don't dothis, what was failures look
like when he's 20 or 30 or goingthrough, you know, like really
hard, hard decisions, big topics.
Kirk Chugg (41:27):
And he probably won't remember not getting his
phone for a semester and heprobably won't remember the C
plus, but he will remember the20 role plays that you did with
him in the car Like really, whenyou look back at it, like
what's the bookmark going to befor him in this memory?
He learned how to talk to anadult or someone in a superior
(41:48):
position to him to get somethingthat he felt like he needed.
Yeah, Right.
Matthew Poll (41:53):
And my younger son .
He was just so excited becausehe knew all the answers that we
had him do it at the end, alsoCause he like heard it so many
times.
Kirk Chugg (42:03):
I can do this.
Matthew Poll (42:04):
Let's see, and he's.
He nailed it, you know, firsttime.
That's great.
Kirk Chugg (42:07):
Yeah, this has been a great conversation.
It's been unique in that we'vewe've talked a little bit about
this technology side, which I'mglad that we touched on.
We might have to have you backon as AI continues to do our
kids' homework for them, sure,and talk to us a little bit
about how we can manage that asparents.
(42:28):
At the end of every podcast,because we're running out of
time here at the end of everypodcast, we ask our guests to
define what they think it meansto be a gentleman.
Would you do that for us, matt?
Matthew Poll (42:44):
Yeah, I'm going to tie it in to something I
identified about five years agoin terms of like a definition
for who I am for the world.
I think it perfectly ties intothis and so I'll say it that way
first and then I'll redefine itfor this question.
But I discovered about fiveyears ago who I am for the world
(43:07):
is that they get theirresponsible, and what I mean by
that is that you can't be avictim sometimes, but that the
vantage point, the observationpoint of always being
responsible and seeing some waythat you could have had an
impact in a positive way couldhave made the difference.
That's what I want the world towake up to, and so I would say
(43:30):
to be a gentleman would be verysimilar that your life, your
family, your relationship, theway your kids turn out is
actually your responsibility.
And that in the hardestcircumstances, where you think
you don't have impact, you stillmight have a 1% or a 2% threat
(43:52):
for the fathers who are derangedfrom children and, you know,
don't get to see their kids allthe time, you know don't have
the benefits that I have coparenting.
It's like you still have athread of responsibility to make
a positive impact and you can,and the fact that you can means
that you probably should.
Kirk Chugg (44:12):
Well said.
Cory Moore (44:14):
Yeah, I mean that's good for parenting, being a
gentleman in business, you nameit Right Don't, don't be the
victim and take responsibility.
I'm, I'm with you.
I think if you look at lifethat way, you're better off for
it.
And it doesn't meaneverything's your fault, it just
means that you could.
You should always look in themirror and say, well, what could
(44:34):
I have done different?
Even if it isn't a hundredpercent my fault, it's good.
What could I have donedifferent?
Even if it isn't 100% my fault,it's good.
Matthew, we could do anotherhour with you easy.
I think we only scratched thesurface with you, so we might
have to have him back.
That'd be great.
Thanks for your time today.
Kirk Chugg (44:49):
Yeah, pleasure guys, and thank you for listening to
the Gentlemen Project podcast.
If you felt like you needed toshare this with somebody today,
as you listened to this, or tooksomething away from this that
you're going to implement inyour life, we'd love to hear
about it.
Drop us a rating and review ifyou haven't done so.
On apple podcast, that helps usreach more people.
You give us a five-star ratingand review.
If you want to give us aone-star rating, we don't care
(45:09):
if you do it or not.
Cory Moore (45:11):
Where's the best place to find you, matthew?
Is it linkedin?
Is it somewhere else?
Matthew Poll (45:15):
I've got a channel on YouTube Market Pulse Podcast
.
It's a podcast, but if youthrow me in a Google search,
it's Matthew Poll P-O-L-L.
Kirk Chugg (45:24):
Perfect, awesome.
Thank you, Matthew, and we willtalk to you soon.
Thanks for spending your timewith us.
I'm Kirk Chugg.
Cory Moore (45:33):
I'm Cory Moore.
Have a great day, thank you.
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