September 27, 2019 • 43 mins
Welcome to Episode 4 of the GET READY! With Tony Steuer podcast in partnership with Insurance Nerds.
“Keep your mind open to new perspectives and possibilities to help people” - Emily Adams
“For every initiative, think about how you can help others, rather than what you can get out of it” - Sharon Bially
In this episode of GET READY!, I spoke with public relations and marketings experts Emily Adams and Sharon Bially about the value of PR, earning media placement and developing our personal brand. The key to PR is about staying focused on serving your audience and clients. We also discussed how you can amplify your message and the future of marketing.
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About The GET READY! with Tony Steuer Podcast: On the GET READY! Podcast, I’ll be catching up with inspiring professionals from a variety of backgrounds and experiences to help bring you innovative strategies to organize your financial life. GET READY! With Tony Steuer will help you be informed and financially prepared today and in the future. We’ll also talk about best practices from both the consumer and industry perspectives.
The Get Ready Money Podcast and its guests do not provide investment advice. All content is for educational purposes. Guest opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of The Get Ready Money Podcast and Tony Steuer.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Welcome to
Speaker 2 (00:14):
The get ready with Tony Stewart podcast.
This episode, I'm really pleasedto have on, uh, two people that
have gotten to know and workwith this year, uh, Sharon by
Allie and, uh, Emily Adams ofbooks, skivvy PR and thought
savvy marketing, uh, welcomeEmily and Sharon to they get
(00:35):
ready to podcast.
Fantastic.
Um, so before we dive in, I'mjust going to give everybody a
little bit of background on whoyou are.
Uh, Sharon is a founder ofthought savvy marketing and book
staff UPR running high impact PRand marketing campaigns for
thought leaders and authors.
(00:56):
Sharon is a seasoned storytellerand strategist with a background
in international economicpolicy.
And she's held management orleadership positions at the
organization for economiccooperation and development.
The OECD in Paris, the PRagency, feral Kramer
communications in MBA valuepartners and New York investor
(01:19):
relations firms.
So Sharon brings a huge wealthof experience across the
financial and, uh, marketingspectrum.
Emily is a former Englishinstructor, turned publicity
strategist who has worked behindthe scenes for business authors,
helping them to research andwrite books.
She's a voice behind dozens ofghost written articles, blog
(01:41):
posts, and newsletters, Emilylinks, your client's thought
leadership with current eventsthat appeal to audiences
particular, particularly hermillennial peers.
Emily has helped both authorsand thought leaders get coverage
everywhere from the New Yorktimes, the Washington post and
NBR to Buzzfeed, cosmopolitanand courts.
(02:03):
And I know for myself, Emilyhelped me get on, uh, ABC, uh,
published on fast company amongmany other publications.
So, you know, uh, both Emily andTerran bring tremendous wealth
of experience and expertise inmarketing, which is so important
(02:25):
to all of us, uh, across theinsurance industry and you know,
every part of the financialspectrum.
Uh, so let's go ahead and divein.
Um, the, do you want to share alittle bit of what you both do?
Um, Sharon, do you want to swingat that first?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Sure.
Thanks.
Um, you know, talking about whatwe do is so huge in a lot of
ways, so I'm going to boil itdown and make it really simple
for, um, anybody listening.
In essence, we visibility forauthors and for thought leaders
engaging the media and theiraudiences so that they can drive
(03:06):
new business and book sales.
If they have a book that isreally just a thought leadership
marketing, which is similar toauthor and book marketing
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Well, fantastic.
And I mean, isn't that reallytrue that, you know, for anybody
in business that they need to bethinking of themselves as the
thought leader?
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Yes, it really is Tony.
I think there's one distinctionis that in a lot of industries
where industries that focus moreon products and services, the
thought leadership element maynot be as crucial, but services
and financial services,including insurance are very
much service oriented inservices is where it becomes
(03:50):
really, um, crucial.
The thought leadership elementbecomes really crucial.
I think that maybe people in theinsurance business often seem
StoreOnce as a product, but Isee it very much as a service.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah.
I, I agree with youwholeheartedly.
And I think that's where theinsurance industry really needs
to go is from being commoditydriven to understanding that
it's a service driven industrythat we serve the client and
that when you take thatviewpoint, rather than selling
that you're servicing andworking with a client as an
(04:24):
advisor, that it, it changes theperspective and it makes it a
better experience for everyone.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So Emily, uh, you know, talk alittle bit about, you know, your
perspective on what you do andhow you view things.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Yeah.
First, just to follow that, Imean, we've seen throughout, you
know, publicizing your book,that there's actually quite a
demand for people thinking aboutinsurance as not a commodity and
more as a service.
And I think that was veryapparent in a lot of the media
interests.
We true for you.
(04:59):
So that definitely seems to bewhere things are heading.
Um, I think, yeah, Sharonsummarized it really well.
You know, we want to help peopleget this ability.
We want to help them distillsometimes big unwieldy ideas
down into something that'sbite-sized and usable for the
media.
(05:21):
Um, and really we want to workas partners with them in
accomplishing that.
So really taking on boardexactly what it is that is sort
of the core thought that theirbusiness and their business
ethics is based around andmaking that into something that
is legible to someone who has,you know, maybe 50 seconds.
(05:46):
Um, so that's, I think that'sfeels like often the goal of my
day is to, you know, helpcommunicate those big things
into small things.
Um, and without while stillretaining the richness of the
concept.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Well, and I think that's important, um, excuse me
and Sharon you've had experienceworking in the financial
community is that I think peopletend to forget how little people
outside the financial servicesindustry even understand the
very basic building blocks of afinancial product or service,
(06:24):
including their insurance.
I mean, is that your experience?
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Yeah.
And you know, one of thequestions that you've, um, asked
us to think about and advancedspeaks directly to that, and
it's, um, how does a backgroundworking in communications with
financial interviews help me, orus understand how to bridge the
gap between financial experts inthe media.
And that's really that on thatpoint, um, in order to bridge
(06:51):
that gap or, or anycommunications gap for that
matter, you really have tounderstand the details behind
what's being said.
And the unique way that thegiven audience is going to
filter the information andreceive it.
So working with financialorganizations and experts, um,
you know, is an understandingtheir products and services is
(07:12):
the best way to then be able toboil things down and make it
accessible to the media, butalso make it something that the
media and other audiences willvalue and want to use.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Yeah.
And I would say that probablytranslates directly to, uh, I
know my personal work, uh, youknow, although I don't work with
clients as much as I used to, isthat that's really, the
difficult point is taking, um,sorry, hold on.
I'm pausing for a second.
(07:44):
So we were discussing about, um,bridging the gap of
communications, uh, with, uh,you know, between financial
advisors and those with subjectmatter expertise and with
consumers.
And I think we were getting somereally good points.
(08:04):
Um, Emily, H how do you see thatissue?
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Um, I think I'm going to have less to say here than
Sharon.
Um, I think that the main pointthat I've taken away so far is
just that consumers, again, wantsomething that is relatable and
easy to understand.
And I think that one of thethings I, myself, as a consumer
(08:34):
in this space and that I'venoticed in working with these
types of campaigns is thatpeople really want something
plainly stated.
So again, you know, to actuallyto borrow from one of our, uh,
you know, angles in yourcampaign, it's kind of, it's the
(08:55):
Marie Kondo
Speaker 4 (08:56):
Approach you want to sort of get rid of everything
that's extraneous and, um, makethings very simple to
understand.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah.
And I think that's a valuablelesson, especially for those of
us in the insurance industry iswe tend to be a very jargon,
heavy, angry, and we tend toforget that in working with
clients that most clients don'tknow what a declaration is, or
what did deductible is, or anyof these terms, you know, that
we just throw around, you know,the, we all know so well in the
(09:28):
industry.
Okay.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
I think it's hard.
It's hard then to get outsideof, you know, yourself when you
have those, those blinders on,and to remember exactly what
jargon is even being thrownaround.
So it's helpful to really stepback and think like, how much do
I need to decode here?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
And I think that's where, you know, your background
and experience as a teacherreally, excuse me, it comes in
handy.
I mean, how you feel the, yourexperience as a teacher lends
itself to the work you do now.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
Yeah.
This is such an excellentquestion, Tony.
And I think that the number onething that I've drawn from
teaching is that teachers aretireless iterators, they will
try something over and overagain in order to reach, you
know, this student or thatstudent, um, and to help kids
(10:24):
move along.
And a lot of times that meansrepackaging the same idea.
Many times, like meet a mathteacher, you know, this probably
better than I do.
They have all kinds of systemsand routines for explaining how
a fraction works, what it is,um, and how to divide it for
instance.
(10:44):
And so I think that the bottomline is with publicity and
working with big concepts, youreally do have to be a tireless
iterator.
You have to be ready to wrestlea topic down to the ground and
find the way that's going tomake it palatable.
As Sharon was describing earlierto the audience that you're
(11:07):
trying to reach.
And sometimes that means firstgetting it to a journalist.
So figuring out how to make thejournalist want it and see how,
you know, they will understandtheir audience to want it.
So you have a lot of differentinterest groups that are sort of
buying for one idea.
And I think it really comes downto, you know, the art and
(11:30):
practice of repackaging thingsto make them work.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Definitely.
And I think what you brought upthere is incredibly valuable is,
so let's say you have a class of30 students is you may have to
teach that same concept 30different ways.
Absolutely tell the students.
And I think that's something forthe insurance industry to work.
The future is that, you know,the insurance industry has to
(11:57):
move on from just selling in oneparticular way or framing a
product in one particular way tounderstanding that there's a
whole spectrum of learningstyles out there among
consumers, and that if they wantto really be effective, they're
going to have to adapt todifferent segments of the
(12:19):
market.
And I think that's such avaluable experience, uh, you
know, or lesson for theinsurance industry, as well as
for members of the insuranceindustry who want media
placement and which leads into,uh, you know, my next question
is how do you feel that PR andmedia appearances, uh, compare
(12:43):
to advertising for people there?
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Yeah, that's, um, I mean, there's a huge difference.
Um, PR is referred to as earnedmedia, precisely because it is
earned in that the media decidesthat an individual or an
organization who they're goingto cover or give coverage to is
(13:10):
deemed bore that, that they likethe ideas, that those ideas are
valuable to them.
Um, and when you're gettingmedia coverage, you don't need
to pay for that.
It's because it is somethingthat the, the outlet wants and
needs for itself, and thatautomatically lends important
(13:32):
third-party validation.
And when you're covered.
So when you're covered by themedia, in an article or an
interview or an interview, theimplicit messages you've been
vetted, they're, they're saying,you know, we, yeah, Tony, we
like your message.
So we're going to use it, butadvertising is really different.
It's a paper, paper playproposition.
Wow.
There's a lot of peace there.
Hey, Yeah.
(13:57):
Right by definition, you haven'tbeen vetted and there's no real
third party validation.
It's it's in essence, afinancial transaction that said
advertising does providevisibility.
And there is a small degree ofvetting in that a credible media
organization is not going toaccept ads about products or
(14:18):
services that they don't, um,that they really don't feel are
an accurate reflection of theirvalues.
So, um, you know, ISIS is notgoing to place an ad in the New
York times sample, but, uh, sothere is that piece to
(14:40):
advertising still.
It is, it is really clear thatthere's advertising is simply
not, um, offering validation.
It's just offering thevisibility.
How do you feel about that,
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Emily?
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Yeah, I, I totally agree.
And I think that, um, you know,Sharon has hit the nail on the
head advertising PR well, it'strue.
We're coming up on, I think oneof your next questions is going
to be something about trendsthat we're seeing.
And I think as I'm listening toSharon, one thing I'm thinking
(15:15):
is, you know, it's, this isgoing to be an interesting next
five years, as people becomemore skeptical of news and news
sources, you know, how far willthat vetting carry us?
I'm not saying that publicity isa dying art.
I'm saying that I think it'sgoing to have to transition.
And, you know, we're even doingthat a lot of times.
(15:37):
And I think I'm just going tolead right into your next
question, because I think it,interestingly ties in with this,
so that I think the future ofpublicity in this sense is that,
you know, what we're working onnow, the projects we're working
on is actually reaching peoplelike influencers.
(16:00):
So often we're not just pitchingthe media.
We're also pitching people whohave a different type of third
party validation credit nowbecause they're people, you
know, they're kind of out there,they're doing their own rogue
thing, and they're only going tosupport a brand that they really
love, or at least, you know,this is the current, you know,
(16:23):
understanding of the way thatinfluencers function.
And I think that one of thereally important things in that
space right now is really themicro-influencers.
So we have begun the processoften of pitching people who
even do Amazon reviews forauthors or, um, ups of blogs
that, you know, while they mayseem small, like they're only
(16:46):
capturing 10,000 followers,they're the exact right.
10,000 followers.
So I think that in terms of, youknow, the difference between
advertising and publicity inthis time is that it's going to
move even further towardspublicity and potentially
(17:08):
advertising are both going tomove even further into this
space of tapping into people asopposed to, you know, media
brands.
Um, and that I may have muddledthings there, but I'm just, I'm
very excited about this ideathat, you know, things are
becoming more micro focused andyou can reach audiences on a
(17:30):
smaller scale.
And I think advertising stillstruggles to do that.
I think there are still a lot ofplaces where it's kind of, uh,
if you take a blanket approachand you sort of get what you pay
for there.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yeah.
And I think we discussed that,um, even with a PR campaign that
I just have with your firm isthat, uh, we got placement in a
very large publication and itdidn't seem like it was, uh,
very helpful in terms of, uh, mybook sales.
And I think that'd be it, peopleare looking for that more
(18:05):
personalized connection that,you know, that are you both
familiar with Seth Godinmarketing and how he talks
about, I think it's 1000 truefans and that I think as
business people and as an authoris that, you know, it's looking
(18:27):
for that smaller core of peoplewho truly believe in what you
do.
Um, Sharon, do you feel thatsame, uh, thoughts about the
trends in the industry?
Speaker 3 (18:40):
So it is so true that , um, influencers are becoming
King.
Just one small point on that isto add is that there now people
do also pay influencers onsocial media in particular.
So even there, the lines betweenadvertising and vetted
third-party validation areblurring.
(19:01):
So the whole world in so manyways is in complete upheaval,
but one of the central pieces tothis upheaval is that, and ties
right back into the question atwhich to the point about
influencers is that traditionalmedia no longer has the dominant
role at once did in providingvisibility or even credibility.
(19:23):
In some cases, um, thetraditional media keeps
changing.
It's, it's a complete and totalmoving target right now.
It has been for some time.
I think it really has been sinceI've been in this field for
longer than I care to admit.
But, um, when I first startedwas before the internet upheaval
of the traditional media andthings were so different.
(19:46):
So, um, ever since then it hasbecome and keeps Reba becoming a
real moving target.
Um, outlet outlets are movingonline.
Most media outlets are nowonline in addition to being in
print, if they're still in printand even on broadcast and ad
(20:07):
revenue online is, is the realdriving force of everything.
And behind that is page views.
So pretty funny outletsperspective generating page
views is King and they're allconstantly that's okay.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I, I left that on in case it was X affinity, home
security again, but it's not,
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Oh boy.
So, um, so, you know, even newsoutlets are just constantly
trying to figure out andrefigure figure out how to drive
more views and clicks.
And that means that theireditorial preferences are
constantly changing.
So we have one day an outlet isdoing book reviews.
And the next day it's justwriting about trends that it's
seeing in new book releases andmaybe mentioning a few book
(20:53):
titles along the way.
We've actually seen that withthe New York times.
They've, they've segwayed a lotof their book review coverage
into more trends coverage, andit leaves everybody's head
spinning, like what next what'sgoing to be the next change.
And, uh, article length keepsgetting shorter headlines and
subheads and tips and pointerskeep becoming more important,
but in different ways.
(21:14):
So it really keeps us on ourtoes.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yeah, well, and I think that's a trend we're
seeing in the insurance industryas well, is that with the advent
of technology and new methods ofcommunication that everybody has
to adjust the way that they dobusiness.
Um, so I guess that leads to thenext question.
I think you've both started toaddress it is, you know, H how
(21:37):
does somebody amplify theirmessage in this changing
environment?
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Yeah.
Keep it out there.
No, there's so much to say aboutthis.
Um, you know, I think first thereal key point here, and this is
what Emily and I do on an hourlybasis every day is to make sure
that your message or in ourcase, our client's message
(22:05):
itself is clear and compellingand tailored to a specific
audience.
So you can't amplify a messagewithout, without that piece in
place.
Otherwise it's just noise.
And so the, so behind that isanother first step, which means
knowing who your audience is.
And, um, and then you have tofigure out where you find your
(22:26):
audience.
Are they on LinkedIn?
Are they on Twitter?
Are they listening to Tony'spodcast?
Are they hanging out at industryconferences and understanding
that is going to help youunderstand how to best tailor
the message to each of thosedifferent venues and funnel it
out.
And there are all sorts of waysto do that.
Um, it might mean writingLinkedIn articles and cross
(22:49):
posting them to specializedgroups.
It might mean boosting certainFacebook posts, and then you
have to decide which ones you'regoing to boost.
It might mean pitching yourselfto be a speaker at conferences
or, and or all of the above.
And it all, by the way, has tosink into what to tie up with
your website, where your, uh,identity and core message should
(23:13):
of course be clear and clearlypresented
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Well.
So in that works, especially, Iwould say for arch businesses,
let's say an insurance company.
Um, how do you feel that wouldtranslate for, you know, a small
agency with two or three agentsor employees?
Do you feel that with translatethe same way?
Speaker 3 (23:34):
I think it's even better.
Um, because one of the struggleswith a big company is who's the
real eye behind the message.
Is it a company, you know, CocaCola, for example, does
Coca-Cola speak and have avoice?
Is it the CEO?
And if so, that person was sohigh level and an accessible
(23:54):
that, um, it, it, it doesn't, itdoesn't create the same type of
engagement.
So when you have a smallcompany, the head of the
company, you know, myself, forexample, in our case, can really
effectively engage with peopleon a one-on-one basis and feel
more real and human.
And then whoever is working withthe person.
(24:15):
Um, you know, my kids there'sfew of us and Emily is, is one
and a key person, um, can alsohave her own voice and translate
or carry the center, our centralvoice, but also interpreted in
her own way without anythinggetting lost.
And I think it's a lot easierwhen you're small to do that.
(24:36):
I think the challenge has beenbuilding a big audience size or
the right audience.
It's a little more challengingfor a small organization then
for a huge organization whosename brand recognition is
already established and followedby millions.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Yeah.
Well, and I think though, youknow, as you point out, there's
the reverse of it too, and, youknow, Emily, I'll, I'll let you
take this next one I think is,is valuable for your input is,
you know, as a millennial you'recoming out and you know, what
you know about the insuranceindustry is you can buy
insurance from a lizard or fromsomebody wearing an apron, you
(25:16):
know, how do you personalize,you know, these companies, you
know, I mean, that's great that,you know, Geico's got a funny
lizard, the flow's willing tohelp you with these things.
And some other guys, you know,for farmers is sitting in the
middle of traffic and his easychair.
Um, does that actually tell youanything about the insurance
companies and what they do or isthat just like ridiculous,
(25:40):
fluff,
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Tony?
I think about this a lot and I,I'm actually in the middle of a
very good and old advertisingbook from my library that talks
about this really complex natureof making your brand funny when
it's about something serious.
So I'm always, I, you know, eversince I've been reading that
I've been so perplexed by Flowho a very long time ago, I
(26:04):
heard was one of the mostsuccessful advertising, um,
brands like going, uh, and youknow, it's weird because
insurance is something that youalmost, I guess, I don't know if
I'm thinking about this wrong,but it's something that I feel
like I don't want to have tohave, you know, like it's
(26:25):
something where it's like, it'sa bad day when I'm thinking
about my insurance or, you know,drawing on my insurance because
it's, you know, something'sgoing on.
I there's been a flood or I'mhaving a medical emergency or,
you know, it's not necessarily,um, a better roses.
And it's interesting that theydo turn to these sort of funny
(26:47):
gimmicky, uh, verydepersonalized approaches.
Uh, but in the same token, Idefinitely remember, you know,
the in good hands, right.
I can think of a number ofcampaigns off the top of my head
that feel kind of dour, I guessthey feel a little sad and I
(27:11):
mean, and maybe drawing on thatwasn't effective either.
And so I think one thing that Ithink was really important that
Sharon said that, that I I'msure all of these huge brands
are using and that we usewhenever we're working with a
smaller brand or company,that's, that's building a
platform, right.
They don't have somethingexistence.
(27:31):
They're working on buildingsomething from scratch, or
they're working on kind ofreally beefing it up is again,
iterating, but persistence inthat approach, it's really
guessing and checking and tryingthings again and again, and
having the patience to kind of,to know what you want to say and
(27:53):
to figure out exactly how itneeds to be said.
Um, you know, in working on yourconcepts, you, the concepts were
in place.
We just had to figure out howto, how to make, get them
across.
And I think that's always theproject.
And so again, persistence isreally key in building that sort
(28:15):
of warm, cozy feeling around abrand.
People have to see somethingseven times before they'll click
on you, and they may not wantyou to be funny if you're
addressing something serious.
And you just have to figure thatout often with guests and check.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Well, I think those are some great points, and I
think you hit on something,especially with the deep
personalization that gets towhat we were talking about
earlier about, um, the custommessage and segmenting the
audience, and really honing inon who you're speaking with is
(28:53):
that people aren't communicatingwhat their actual services.
Um, you know, you're not goingto have a lizard coming out to
explain your homeownersinsurance policy to you.
Uh, and that doesn't help you.
Uh, it's funny, it's engaging.
I mean, I enjoy the Geicocommercials quite a bit, but I
(29:13):
don't think it lends anything tothe process, nor does it make
people feel like they know theinsurance industry better or
become more comfortable withtheir insurance policies or with
the insurance processes.
It remains the same as youpointed out is it's a deep,
(29:33):
personalized, yucky thing thatyou don't really want to deal
with.
It's like going to the doctorfor your annual checkup.
It's like, well, you know, I gotto do it.
I would, there's about a hundredthousand things I'd rather do.
Yeah.
I think that's the most thing.
And I know we're getting closeto our wrap-up time.
(29:55):
Um, there is something I reallywant to get into, uh, with both
of you.
And we discussed this up beforethe podcast, because I found
this most fascinating thing inworking with you.
And this is an issue that manypeople in the insurance industry
are struggling with is where youhave somebody who's more
experienced, uh, maybe towardsthe end of their career, or at
(30:15):
least well into their career.
And they're onboarding one ormore younger people and to their
practice or into their businessis, you know, how, how do you,
you know, meld your perspectivesand figure out how to work
together.
What's worked for you.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
I'm like, what do you think?
Yeah, I'm happy.
Um, so first off, I would justlike to say that Sharon is
nowhere near the end of hercareer.
At least she better, I had tosay it out loud because I, I do
feel often that Sharon and I'swork together is very much like
(31:01):
it's, it's a yin and yang.
Um, and, and that's, I thinkI've never worked in insurance,
so I can't comment directly on,on how that would work, but I'm
going to hazard a guess thatthat's actually really a
positive thing because I'mpushing and she's pulling a lot
of times, and it helps us arriveat something that just is it's
(31:26):
exactly what it needs to be.
It sits on its own and it worksthe way it's supposed to because
we brought so many differentperspectives into the mix.
Um, and we're constantly kind ofinterrogating.
And once we have right, youformulate a brand message and
you do want to stick to it, butthere's also always those
moments.
(31:46):
Again, Sharon will come in inthe morning and be like, I was
up all night and here's what Ithink.
And I'm like, okay.
Yeah.
And then we go back and forthand things get reformulated.
And, you know, the ability forus to both cogitate and come
from such different places isreally useful, especially when
it comes to a, um, a product ora brand, you know, or a set of
(32:12):
ideas that could really reach abroad audience.
I'm most good.
Um, I mean, I think, you know,with a book about insurance, I
may have immediately been like,yeah, you know, it's important
to reach people my age, butprobably less important when in
matter of fact, it actually wasquite important and worked very
well.
Um, and so I think it takes allof that.
(32:34):
I also think from a practicalperspective, um, as we were
discussing before we got on, youknow, if there is also that push
and pull in the way that we workand interact with clients, and
I'm sure that that happens aswell in insurance.
And I think one thing that hasbeen very valuable is that
Sharon really puts me at thecenter of a project with a
(32:58):
client, right from the jumpimmediately.
When we onboard a client, I amintroduced I'm on every phone
call, I'm on every email.
And then I start directing thework myself often for clients
that are on my docket.
And I think that really helpsthe clients become comfortable
(33:19):
with the fact that, you know, Iwill always have less experience
than Sharon.
I mean, there may come a day,you know, 30 years from now
after Sharon really has hung upher hat where I have as much
your hands, but as long as Iwork with her, I will have less
experience.
And I think any client whodidn't see that would be blind,
(33:39):
but I do think that at the endof the day, you know, Sharon
knows what I bring that's ofhigh value, and she would not
hand me off to a client withoutknowing that and in, so doing it
creates comfortability with theclient.
So I really think that it'simportant and has been integral
for us to immediately normclient relations as between both
(34:03):
of us and something where weboth take the lead.
And we're both equal partners inthe communications with the
client.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Absolutely.
And Sharon, you know, from yourstandpoint, um, you know,
probably bringing on Emily and Iknow you have a couple other
associates, uh, you know, Imean, did you feel that that was
part of being able to expand andserve more clients, uh, having
people,
Speaker 4 (34:30):
Having people in general or having people, you
know, at different phases incareer,
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Uh, you know, either one or both, but if you'd like
to jump back,
Speaker 4 (34:41):
No, I did want to, um, comment on what Emily just
said is so true.
I think that there is nothingbut value in having a diverse
range of experiences,backgrounds, ages, um, places on
the career path.
I mean, it is, I think Emilyknows this, but I can't say it
enough.
It is.
(35:01):
There are times when I would belost in today's world without
the input from Emily.
And there's one other person onour team, Kendra, who is, um, I
guess you could say amillennial, I guess.
Yeah.
I guess Kendra, I would becompletely lost.
There are times when, in fact,just before this interview, Tony
, I think definitely to ask herabout something about Spotify,
(35:24):
which I'm just really not evensure.
I really know what it is, but,but that's a tiny example.
And I think on the flip side andit's, I wouldn't have it any
other way and I don't.
And on the flip side, I knowthat the fact that I was out
Speaker 3 (35:38):
There in the workforce in the 1990s and have
seen things in those years, thatinformed me about the, the two
thousands and then the 2010s.
And then, um, you know, I thinkthat that's invaluable to the
people that I work with who areyounger and we, um, but overall
it's, it's crucial for us.
We are a team, there are four ofus altogether on the core team,
(36:01):
um, and myself, Emily, Lauren,and Kendra, who does only
writing and social media with us, um, it's crucial to have all
of us involved.
And then there are a few othersthat we partner with on various
project.
And, uh, together we form a teamin our own way that our partners
(36:22):
in us, and it really is crucialto be able, not only to offer
various, um, skills to clients,but also among each other and
together to exchange ideas,experiences, knowledge, and
reactions.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Yeah.
And I think you hit on a superimportant point for people to
remember is, you know, that,that it's a team function when
you have, um, people that you'reworking with and that if you
approach your business or youragency or company, or what have
you, as a team, it's going tocome across that way to your
(36:59):
clients.
Um, I know that in working withyou is that I look at you, um,
your firm as a team.
And I know that, you know, wwhen I was looking at hiring a
publicist, I was looking atSharon predominantly in your
background.
However, when we got into thecampaign is Emily brought
(37:21):
certain things to the tablebased upon her experience and
where she is, um, you know, inher career path that made it
more conducive, cave, Emilyhandle certain components.
And, and I think that's soimportant for people to remember
is that if you're bringing insomebody into your business,
into your team, is that you haveto trust them and let them run
(37:46):
with it.
And that at certain point, youknow, if they're involved that
the clients may naturallygravitate to working with
different members of your teamat different points of the
client relationship.
And I think that's something,you know, from the outside that
I found it really easy to workwith your firm is to make that
(38:08):
transition, because you're allon the same page in terms of
your internal communication andfor a message.
And I really appreciate it.
And, uh, like to ask you
Speaker 3 (38:20):
Tony.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
But, uh, and I think that's important for everybody
in their business as a expandand bring on new people and
transition.
Um, I'd like to get in one morequestion if we can.
Uh, uh, so Karen, we'll startwith you.
What's your number one tip rulefor success.
If you had to pass on one Juulto everybody out there.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
Yeah.
I, my, my real deep feelingabout this is that for every
initiative you take, think abouthow you can help peop others
rather than what you want to getout of it.
And then go, I think that thatgoes for anything that we do
professionally, but inmarketing, it's so much more,
it's even more important becausemarketing, despite what people
(39:06):
might think is very much anexercise in reciprocation, it's
not a hard sell.
So if you're generous, if youoffer tips, if you offer
expertise, if you share yourtime and take the time to answer
people's questions, it will comeback and pay off in multiples.
It's just not necessarily astransactional as say, Hey, I'm
(39:27):
going to buy an ad.
You know, it's not, it's not thesame process.
Um, and then with that, whateveryou do be genuine people, people
sense when you're doingsomething just for publicity
sake or just for the sake ofclosing a deal, whatever it
might be, and they're likely toshut down, but when you're
genuine, people will genuinelywant to engage.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
I, I think that's really valuable advice, um, for
people who are selling, becauseit's not about selling it's
about service and providingsomething to clients, um, Emily,
what's your number one tip rulefor success that you'd like to
share?
Speaker 4 (40:02):
Yeah, that's a good question, Tony.
I think right now the one I'vebeen thinking about a lot is
just staying open to theprocess.
I think when I'm going to try tolike unpack that a little bit,
but not too much.
Um, I think that sometimespeople come into something with
(40:24):
a very, um, firm understandingof the, exactly how they want
something to look.
So whether it be a campaign ortheir message, or exactly where
they want to be placed, youknow, I need to be in the New
York times absolutely right now.
Um, and, and I think thishappens for every type of
business.
I think it happens in almostevery facet of life.
(40:45):
And the one thing that I thinkthose very well for people that
I've seen, um, in my work iswhen people come with a very
open-minded and open ear.
And again, as we have, you know,champions throughout this
process, I'm sorry, throughoutthis podcast being hospitable to
(41:10):
the teamwork process and stayingopen to a variety of
perspectives, um, it doesn'tmean never landing on a
decision.
It just means, you know, keepyour eyes and ears open.
You might see something or hearsomething that relates to your
brand that makes sense or turnsa light bulb on.
Um, or, you know, we may, youmay be pushed in one direction,
(41:31):
you know, when working with apublicist, keep your mind open
to the potential for thatmessaging or that idea to do
well, or to influence otherpeople.
And again, to feed into exactlywhat Sharon said, which is to
help them right in the end,that's the goal.
So I think staying open andbeing ready to see those
(41:52):
possibilities and let them kindof just happen is important.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Definitely.
And that's, I think such acritical point for, you know, no
matter the size of yourbusiness, whether you're a sole
agent or you're a multinationalcorporation that it's really
that personalization, thatcustomer focus, having that
communication.
And if you're a thought leader,getting your message out there
(42:21):
in a way that people canunderstand.
Um, so, uh, if you want to findout more about sharing it, Emily
, uh, they work with bothauthors and business thought
leaders.
Uh, their sweet spot is helpingbusinesses grow their profile
and audience by marketing theirleaders expertise, uh, sets
looking at you insurance company, CEOs, uh, agency, broker heads
(42:46):
, uh, you know, anybody whowants to grow their business.
I recommend it.
Uh, you can find out moreinformation about, uh, the
surfaces that Sharon and Emily,uh, provide at thoughts, savvy
marketing.com.
Uh, that URL will be in the shownotes.
Uh, thank you for tuning intothis episode of get ready with
(43:06):
Tony Stewart.
And thank you both.
Uh, Sharon and Emily for joiningme today.
Welcome to
Speaker 2 (00:14):
The get ready with Tony Stewart podcast.
This episode, I'm really pleasedto have on, uh, two people that
have gotten to know and workwith this year, uh, Sharon by
Allie and, uh, Emily Adams ofbooks, skivvy PR and thought
savvy marketing, uh, welcomeEmily and Sharon to they get
(00:35):
ready to podcast.
Fantastic.
Um, so before we dive in, I'mjust going to give everybody a
little bit of background on whoyou are.
Uh, Sharon is a founder ofthought savvy marketing and book
staff UPR running high impact PRand marketing campaigns for
thought leaders and authors.
(00:56):
Sharon is a seasoned storytellerand strategist with a background
in international economicpolicy.
And she's held management orleadership positions at the
organization for economiccooperation and development.
The OECD in Paris, the PRagency, feral Kramer
communications in MBA valuepartners and New York investor
(01:19):
relations firms.
So Sharon brings a huge wealthof experience across the
financial and, uh, marketingspectrum.
Emily is a former Englishinstructor, turned publicity
strategist who has worked behindthe scenes for business authors,
helping them to research andwrite books.
She's a voice behind dozens ofghost written articles, blog
(01:41):
posts, and newsletters, Emilylinks, your client's thought
leadership with current eventsthat appeal to audiences
particular, particularly hermillennial peers.
Emily has helped both authorsand thought leaders get coverage
everywhere from the New Yorktimes, the Washington post and
NBR to Buzzfeed, cosmopolitanand courts.
(02:03):
And I know for myself, Emilyhelped me get on, uh, ABC, uh,
published on fast company amongmany other publications.
So, you know, uh, both Emily andTerran bring tremendous wealth
of experience and expertise inmarketing, which is so important
(02:25):
to all of us, uh, across theinsurance industry and you know,
every part of the financialspectrum.
Uh, so let's go ahead and divein.
Um, the, do you want to share alittle bit of what you both do?
Um, Sharon, do you want to swingat that first?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Sure.
Thanks.
Um, you know, talking about whatwe do is so huge in a lot of
ways, so I'm going to boil itdown and make it really simple
for, um, anybody listening.
In essence, we visibility forauthors and for thought leaders
engaging the media and theiraudiences so that they can drive
(03:06):
new business and book sales.
If they have a book that isreally just a thought leadership
marketing, which is similar toauthor and book marketing
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Well, fantastic.
And I mean, isn't that reallytrue that, you know, for anybody
in business that they need to bethinking of themselves as the
thought leader?
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Yes, it really is Tony.
I think there's one distinctionis that in a lot of industries
where industries that focus moreon products and services, the
thought leadership element maynot be as crucial, but services
and financial services,including insurance are very
much service oriented inservices is where it becomes
(03:50):
really, um, crucial.
The thought leadership elementbecomes really crucial.
I think that maybe people in theinsurance business often seem
StoreOnce as a product, but Isee it very much as a service.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah.
I, I agree with youwholeheartedly.
And I think that's where theinsurance industry really needs
to go is from being commoditydriven to understanding that
it's a service driven industrythat we serve the client and
that when you take thatviewpoint, rather than selling
that you're servicing andworking with a client as an
(04:24):
advisor, that it, it changes theperspective and it makes it a
better experience for everyone.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So Emily, uh, you know, talk alittle bit about, you know, your
perspective on what you do andhow you view things.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Yeah.
First, just to follow that, Imean, we've seen throughout, you
know, publicizing your book,that there's actually quite a
demand for people thinking aboutinsurance as not a commodity and
more as a service.
And I think that was veryapparent in a lot of the media
interests.
We true for you.
(04:59):
So that definitely seems to bewhere things are heading.
Um, I think, yeah, Sharonsummarized it really well.
You know, we want to help peopleget this ability.
We want to help them distillsometimes big unwieldy ideas
down into something that'sbite-sized and usable for the
media.
(05:21):
Um, and really we want to workas partners with them in
accomplishing that.
So really taking on boardexactly what it is that is sort
of the core thought that theirbusiness and their business
ethics is based around andmaking that into something that
is legible to someone who has,you know, maybe 50 seconds.
(05:46):
Um, so that's, I think that'sfeels like often the goal of my
day is to, you know, helpcommunicate those big things
into small things.
Um, and without while stillretaining the richness of the
concept.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Well, and I think that's important, um, excuse me
and Sharon you've had experienceworking in the financial
community is that I think peopletend to forget how little people
outside the financial servicesindustry even understand the
very basic building blocks of afinancial product or service,
(06:24):
including their insurance.
I mean, is that your experience?
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Yeah.
And you know, one of thequestions that you've, um, asked
us to think about and advancedspeaks directly to that, and
it's, um, how does a backgroundworking in communications with
financial interviews help me, orus understand how to bridge the
gap between financial experts inthe media.
And that's really that on thatpoint, um, in order to bridge
(06:51):
that gap or, or anycommunications gap for that
matter, you really have tounderstand the details behind
what's being said.
And the unique way that thegiven audience is going to
filter the information andreceive it.
So working with financialorganizations and experts, um,
you know, is an understandingtheir products and services is
(07:12):
the best way to then be able toboil things down and make it
accessible to the media, butalso make it something that the
media and other audiences willvalue and want to use.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Yeah.
And I would say that probablytranslates directly to, uh, I
know my personal work, uh, youknow, although I don't work with
clients as much as I used to, isthat that's really, the
difficult point is taking, um,sorry, hold on.
I'm pausing for a second.
(07:44):
So we were discussing about, um,bridging the gap of
communications, uh, with, uh,you know, between financial
advisors and those with subjectmatter expertise and with
consumers.
And I think we were getting somereally good points.
(08:04):
Um, Emily, H how do you see thatissue?
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Um, I think I'm going to have less to say here than
Sharon.
Um, I think that the main pointthat I've taken away so far is
just that consumers, again, wantsomething that is relatable and
easy to understand.
And I think that one of thethings I, myself, as a consumer
(08:34):
in this space and that I'venoticed in working with these
types of campaigns is thatpeople really want something
plainly stated.
So again, you know, to actuallyto borrow from one of our, uh,
you know, angles in yourcampaign, it's kind of, it's the
(08:55):
Marie Kondo
Speaker 4 (08:56):
Approach you want to sort of get rid of everything
that's extraneous and, um, makethings very simple to
understand.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah.
And I think that's a valuablelesson, especially for those of
us in the insurance industry iswe tend to be a very jargon,
heavy, angry, and we tend toforget that in working with
clients that most clients don'tknow what a declaration is, or
what did deductible is, or anyof these terms, you know, that
we just throw around, you know,the, we all know so well in the
(09:28):
industry.
Okay.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
I think it's hard.
It's hard then to get outsideof, you know, yourself when you
have those, those blinders on,and to remember exactly what
jargon is even being thrownaround.
So it's helpful to really stepback and think like, how much do
I need to decode here?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
And I think that's where, you know, your background
and experience as a teacherreally, excuse me, it comes in
handy.
I mean, how you feel the, yourexperience as a teacher lends
itself to the work you do now.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
Yeah.
This is such an excellentquestion, Tony.
And I think that the number onething that I've drawn from
teaching is that teachers aretireless iterators, they will
try something over and overagain in order to reach, you
know, this student or thatstudent, um, and to help kids
(10:24):
move along.
And a lot of times that meansrepackaging the same idea.
Many times, like meet a mathteacher, you know, this probably
better than I do.
They have all kinds of systemsand routines for explaining how
a fraction works, what it is,um, and how to divide it for
instance.
(10:44):
And so I think that the bottomline is with publicity and
working with big concepts, youreally do have to be a tireless
iterator.
You have to be ready to wrestlea topic down to the ground and
find the way that's going tomake it palatable.
As Sharon was describing earlierto the audience that you're
(11:07):
trying to reach.
And sometimes that means firstgetting it to a journalist.
So figuring out how to make thejournalist want it and see how,
you know, they will understandtheir audience to want it.
So you have a lot of differentinterest groups that are sort of
buying for one idea.
And I think it really comes downto, you know, the art and
(11:30):
practice of repackaging thingsto make them work.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Definitely.
And I think what you brought upthere is incredibly valuable is,
so let's say you have a class of30 students is you may have to
teach that same concept 30different ways.
Absolutely tell the students.
And I think that's something forthe insurance industry to work.
The future is that, you know,the insurance industry has to
(11:57):
move on from just selling in oneparticular way or framing a
product in one particular way tounderstanding that there's a
whole spectrum of learningstyles out there among
consumers, and that if they wantto really be effective, they're
going to have to adapt todifferent segments of the
(12:19):
market.
And I think that's such avaluable experience, uh, you
know, or lesson for theinsurance industry, as well as
for members of the insuranceindustry who want media
placement and which leads into,uh, you know, my next question
is how do you feel that PR andmedia appearances, uh, compare
(12:43):
to advertising for people there?
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Yeah, that's, um, I mean, there's a huge difference.
Um, PR is referred to as earnedmedia, precisely because it is
earned in that the media decidesthat an individual or an
organization who they're goingto cover or give coverage to is
(13:10):
deemed bore that, that they likethe ideas, that those ideas are
valuable to them.
Um, and when you're gettingmedia coverage, you don't need
to pay for that.
It's because it is somethingthat the, the outlet wants and
needs for itself, and thatautomatically lends important
(13:32):
third-party validation.
And when you're covered.
So when you're covered by themedia, in an article or an
interview or an interview, theimplicit messages you've been
vetted, they're, they're saying,you know, we, yeah, Tony, we
like your message.
So we're going to use it, butadvertising is really different.
It's a paper, paper playproposition.
Wow.
There's a lot of peace there.
Hey, Yeah.
(13:57):
Right by definition, you haven'tbeen vetted and there's no real
third party validation.
It's it's in essence, afinancial transaction that said
advertising does providevisibility.
And there is a small degree ofvetting in that a credible media
organization is not going toaccept ads about products or
(14:18):
services that they don't, um,that they really don't feel are
an accurate reflection of theirvalues.
So, um, you know, ISIS is notgoing to place an ad in the New
York times sample, but, uh, sothere is that piece to
(14:40):
advertising still.
It is, it is really clear thatthere's advertising is simply
not, um, offering validation.
It's just offering thevisibility.
How do you feel about that,
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Emily?
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Yeah, I, I totally agree.
And I think that, um, you know,Sharon has hit the nail on the
head advertising PR well, it'strue.
We're coming up on, I think oneof your next questions is going
to be something about trendsthat we're seeing.
And I think as I'm listening toSharon, one thing I'm thinking
(15:15):
is, you know, it's, this isgoing to be an interesting next
five years, as people becomemore skeptical of news and news
sources, you know, how far willthat vetting carry us?
I'm not saying that publicity isa dying art.
I'm saying that I think it'sgoing to have to transition.
And, you know, we're even doingthat a lot of times.
(15:37):
And I think I'm just going tolead right into your next
question, because I think it,interestingly ties in with this,
so that I think the future ofpublicity in this sense is that,
you know, what we're working onnow, the projects we're working
on is actually reaching peoplelike influencers.
(16:00):
So often we're not just pitchingthe media.
We're also pitching people whohave a different type of third
party validation credit nowbecause they're people, you
know, they're kind of out there,they're doing their own rogue
thing, and they're only going tosupport a brand that they really
love, or at least, you know,this is the current, you know,
(16:23):
understanding of the way thatinfluencers function.
And I think that one of thereally important things in that
space right now is really themicro-influencers.
So we have begun the processoften of pitching people who
even do Amazon reviews forauthors or, um, ups of blogs
that, you know, while they mayseem small, like they're only
(16:46):
capturing 10,000 followers,they're the exact right.
10,000 followers.
So I think that in terms of, youknow, the difference between
advertising and publicity inthis time is that it's going to
move even further towardspublicity and potentially
(17:08):
advertising are both going tomove even further into this
space of tapping into people asopposed to, you know, media
brands.
Um, and that I may have muddledthings there, but I'm just, I'm
very excited about this ideathat, you know, things are
becoming more micro focused andyou can reach audiences on a
(17:30):
smaller scale.
And I think advertising stillstruggles to do that.
I think there are still a lot ofplaces where it's kind of, uh,
if you take a blanket approachand you sort of get what you pay
for there.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yeah.
And I think we discussed that,um, even with a PR campaign that
I just have with your firm isthat, uh, we got placement in a
very large publication and itdidn't seem like it was, uh,
very helpful in terms of, uh, mybook sales.
And I think that'd be it, peopleare looking for that more
(18:05):
personalized connection that,you know, that are you both
familiar with Seth Godinmarketing and how he talks
about, I think it's 1000 truefans and that I think as
business people and as an authoris that, you know, it's looking
(18:27):
for that smaller core of peoplewho truly believe in what you
do.
Um, Sharon, do you feel thatsame, uh, thoughts about the
trends in the industry?
Speaker 3 (18:40):
So it is so true that , um, influencers are becoming
King.
Just one small point on that isto add is that there now people
do also pay influencers onsocial media in particular.
So even there, the lines betweenadvertising and vetted
third-party validation areblurring.
(19:01):
So the whole world in so manyways is in complete upheaval,
but one of the central pieces tothis upheaval is that, and ties
right back into the question atwhich to the point about
influencers is that traditionalmedia no longer has the dominant
role at once did in providingvisibility or even credibility.
(19:23):
In some cases, um, thetraditional media keeps
changing.
It's, it's a complete and totalmoving target right now.
It has been for some time.
I think it really has been sinceI've been in this field for
longer than I care to admit.
But, um, when I first startedwas before the internet upheaval
of the traditional media andthings were so different.
(19:46):
So, um, ever since then it hasbecome and keeps Reba becoming a
real moving target.
Um, outlet outlets are movingonline.
Most media outlets are nowonline in addition to being in
print, if they're still in printand even on broadcast and ad
(20:07):
revenue online is, is the realdriving force of everything.
And behind that is page views.
So pretty funny outletsperspective generating page
views is King and they're allconstantly that's okay.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I, I left that on in case it was X affinity, home
security again, but it's not,
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Oh boy.
So, um, so, you know, even newsoutlets are just constantly
trying to figure out andrefigure figure out how to drive
more views and clicks.
And that means that theireditorial preferences are
constantly changing.
So we have one day an outlet isdoing book reviews.
And the next day it's justwriting about trends that it's
seeing in new book releases andmaybe mentioning a few book
(20:53):
titles along the way.
We've actually seen that withthe New York times.
They've, they've segwayed a lotof their book review coverage
into more trends coverage, andit leaves everybody's head
spinning, like what next what'sgoing to be the next change.
And, uh, article length keepsgetting shorter headlines and
subheads and tips and pointerskeep becoming more important,
but in different ways.
(21:14):
So it really keeps us on ourtoes.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yeah, well, and I think that's a trend we're
seeing in the insurance industryas well, is that with the advent
of technology and new methods ofcommunication that everybody has
to adjust the way that they dobusiness.
Um, so I guess that leads to thenext question.
I think you've both started toaddress it is, you know, H how
(21:37):
does somebody amplify theirmessage in this changing
environment?
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Yeah.
Keep it out there.
No, there's so much to say aboutthis.
Um, you know, I think first thereal key point here, and this is
what Emily and I do on an hourlybasis every day is to make sure
that your message or in ourcase, our client's message
(22:05):
itself is clear and compellingand tailored to a specific
audience.
So you can't amplify a messagewithout, without that piece in
place.
Otherwise it's just noise.
And so the, so behind that isanother first step, which means
knowing who your audience is.
And, um, and then you have tofigure out where you find your
(22:26):
audience.
Are they on LinkedIn?
Are they on Twitter?
Are they listening to Tony'spodcast?
Are they hanging out at industryconferences and understanding
that is going to help youunderstand how to best tailor
the message to each of thosedifferent venues and funnel it
out.
And there are all sorts of waysto do that.
Um, it might mean writingLinkedIn articles and cross
(22:49):
posting them to specializedgroups.
It might mean boosting certainFacebook posts, and then you
have to decide which ones you'regoing to boost.
It might mean pitching yourselfto be a speaker at conferences
or, and or all of the above.
And it all, by the way, has tosink into what to tie up with
your website, where your, uh,identity and core message should
(23:13):
of course be clear and clearlypresented
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Well.
So in that works, especially, Iwould say for arch businesses,
let's say an insurance company.
Um, how do you feel that wouldtranslate for, you know, a small
agency with two or three agentsor employees?
Do you feel that with translatethe same way?
Speaker 3 (23:34):
I think it's even better.
Um, because one of the struggleswith a big company is who's the
real eye behind the message.
Is it a company, you know, CocaCola, for example, does
Coca-Cola speak and have avoice?
Is it the CEO?
And if so, that person was sohigh level and an accessible
(23:54):
that, um, it, it, it doesn't, itdoesn't create the same type of
engagement.
So when you have a smallcompany, the head of the
company, you know, myself, forexample, in our case, can really
effectively engage with peopleon a one-on-one basis and feel
more real and human.
And then whoever is working withthe person.
(24:15):
Um, you know, my kids there'sfew of us and Emily is, is one
and a key person, um, can alsohave her own voice and translate
or carry the center, our centralvoice, but also interpreted in
her own way without anythinggetting lost.
And I think it's a lot easierwhen you're small to do that.
(24:36):
I think the challenge has beenbuilding a big audience size or
the right audience.
It's a little more challengingfor a small organization then
for a huge organization whosename brand recognition is
already established and followedby millions.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Yeah.
Well, and I think though, youknow, as you point out, there's
the reverse of it too, and, youknow, Emily, I'll, I'll let you
take this next one I think is,is valuable for your input is,
you know, as a millennial you'recoming out and you know, what
you know about the insuranceindustry is you can buy
insurance from a lizard or fromsomebody wearing an apron, you
(25:16):
know, how do you personalize,you know, these companies, you
know, I mean, that's great that,you know, Geico's got a funny
lizard, the flow's willing tohelp you with these things.
And some other guys, you know,for farmers is sitting in the
middle of traffic and his easychair.
Um, does that actually tell youanything about the insurance
companies and what they do or isthat just like ridiculous,
(25:40):
fluff,
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Tony?
I think about this a lot and I,I'm actually in the middle of a
very good and old advertisingbook from my library that talks
about this really complex natureof making your brand funny when
it's about something serious.
So I'm always, I, you know, eversince I've been reading that
I've been so perplexed by Flowho a very long time ago, I
(26:04):
heard was one of the mostsuccessful advertising, um,
brands like going, uh, and youknow, it's weird because
insurance is something that youalmost, I guess, I don't know if
I'm thinking about this wrong,but it's something that I feel
like I don't want to have tohave, you know, like it's
(26:25):
something where it's like, it'sa bad day when I'm thinking
about my insurance or, you know,drawing on my insurance because
it's, you know, something'sgoing on.
I there's been a flood or I'mhaving a medical emergency or,
you know, it's not necessarily,um, a better roses.
And it's interesting that theydo turn to these sort of funny
(26:47):
gimmicky, uh, verydepersonalized approaches.
Uh, but in the same token, Idefinitely remember, you know,
the in good hands, right.
I can think of a number ofcampaigns off the top of my head
that feel kind of dour, I guessthey feel a little sad and I
(27:11):
mean, and maybe drawing on thatwasn't effective either.
And so I think one thing that Ithink was really important that
Sharon said that, that I I'msure all of these huge brands
are using and that we usewhenever we're working with a
smaller brand or company,that's, that's building a
platform, right.
They don't have somethingexistence.
(27:31):
They're working on buildingsomething from scratch, or
they're working on kind ofreally beefing it up is again,
iterating, but persistence inthat approach, it's really
guessing and checking and tryingthings again and again, and
having the patience to kind of,to know what you want to say and
(27:53):
to figure out exactly how itneeds to be said.
Um, you know, in working on yourconcepts, you, the concepts were
in place.
We just had to figure out howto, how to make, get them
across.
And I think that's always theproject.
And so again, persistence isreally key in building that sort
(28:15):
of warm, cozy feeling around abrand.
People have to see somethingseven times before they'll click
on you, and they may not wantyou to be funny if you're
addressing something serious.
And you just have to figure thatout often with guests and check.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Well, I think those are some great points, and I
think you hit on something,especially with the deep
personalization that gets towhat we were talking about
earlier about, um, the custommessage and segmenting the
audience, and really honing inon who you're speaking with is
(28:53):
that people aren't communicatingwhat their actual services.
Um, you know, you're not goingto have a lizard coming out to
explain your homeownersinsurance policy to you.
Uh, and that doesn't help you.
Uh, it's funny, it's engaging.
I mean, I enjoy the Geicocommercials quite a bit, but I
(29:13):
don't think it lends anything tothe process, nor does it make
people feel like they know theinsurance industry better or
become more comfortable withtheir insurance policies or with
the insurance processes.
It remains the same as youpointed out is it's a deep,
(29:33):
personalized, yucky thing thatyou don't really want to deal
with.
It's like going to the doctorfor your annual checkup.
It's like, well, you know, I gotto do it.
I would, there's about a hundredthousand things I'd rather do.
Yeah.
I think that's the most thing.
And I know we're getting closeto our wrap-up time.
(29:55):
Um, there is something I reallywant to get into, uh, with both
of you.
And we discussed this up beforethe podcast, because I found
this most fascinating thing inworking with you.
And this is an issue that manypeople in the insurance industry
are struggling with is where youhave somebody who's more
experienced, uh, maybe towardsthe end of their career, or at
(30:15):
least well into their career.
And they're onboarding one ormore younger people and to their
practice or into their businessis, you know, how, how do you,
you know, meld your perspectivesand figure out how to work
together.
What's worked for you.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
I'm like, what do you think?
Yeah, I'm happy.
Um, so first off, I would justlike to say that Sharon is
nowhere near the end of hercareer.
At least she better, I had tosay it out loud because I, I do
feel often that Sharon and I'swork together is very much like
(31:01):
it's, it's a yin and yang.
Um, and, and that's, I thinkI've never worked in insurance,
so I can't comment directly on,on how that would work, but I'm
going to hazard a guess thatthat's actually really a
positive thing because I'mpushing and she's pulling a lot
of times, and it helps us arriveat something that just is it's
(31:26):
exactly what it needs to be.
It sits on its own and it worksthe way it's supposed to because
we brought so many differentperspectives into the mix.
Um, and we're constantly kind ofinterrogating.
And once we have right, youformulate a brand message and
you do want to stick to it, butthere's also always those
moments.
(31:46):
Again, Sharon will come in inthe morning and be like, I was
up all night and here's what Ithink.
And I'm like, okay.
Yeah.
And then we go back and forthand things get reformulated.
And, you know, the ability forus to both cogitate and come
from such different places isreally useful, especially when
it comes to a, um, a product ora brand, you know, or a set of
(32:12):
ideas that could really reach abroad audience.
I'm most good.
Um, I mean, I think, you know,with a book about insurance, I
may have immediately been like,yeah, you know, it's important
to reach people my age, butprobably less important when in
matter of fact, it actually wasquite important and worked very
well.
Um, and so I think it takes allof that.
(32:34):
I also think from a practicalperspective, um, as we were
discussing before we got on, youknow, if there is also that push
and pull in the way that we workand interact with clients, and
I'm sure that that happens aswell in insurance.
And I think one thing that hasbeen very valuable is that
Sharon really puts me at thecenter of a project with a
(32:58):
client, right from the jumpimmediately.
When we onboard a client, I amintroduced I'm on every phone
call, I'm on every email.
And then I start directing thework myself often for clients
that are on my docket.
And I think that really helpsthe clients become comfortable
(33:19):
with the fact that, you know, Iwill always have less experience
than Sharon.
I mean, there may come a day,you know, 30 years from now
after Sharon really has hung upher hat where I have as much
your hands, but as long as Iwork with her, I will have less
experience.
And I think any client whodidn't see that would be blind,
(33:39):
but I do think that at the endof the day, you know, Sharon
knows what I bring that's ofhigh value, and she would not
hand me off to a client withoutknowing that and in, so doing it
creates comfortability with theclient.
So I really think that it'simportant and has been integral
for us to immediately normclient relations as between both
(34:03):
of us and something where weboth take the lead.
And we're both equal partners inthe communications with the
client.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Absolutely.
And Sharon, you know, from yourstandpoint, um, you know,
probably bringing on Emily and Iknow you have a couple other
associates, uh, you know, Imean, did you feel that that was
part of being able to expand andserve more clients, uh, having
people,
Speaker 4 (34:30):
Having people in general or having people, you
know, at different phases incareer,
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Uh, you know, either one or both, but if you'd like
to jump back,
Speaker 4 (34:41):
No, I did want to, um, comment on what Emily just
said is so true.
I think that there is nothingbut value in having a diverse
range of experiences,backgrounds, ages, um, places on
the career path.
I mean, it is, I think Emilyknows this, but I can't say it
enough.
It is.
(35:01):
There are times when I would belost in today's world without
the input from Emily.
And there's one other person onour team, Kendra, who is, um, I
guess you could say amillennial, I guess.
Yeah.
I guess Kendra, I would becompletely lost.
There are times when, in fact,just before this interview, Tony
, I think definitely to ask herabout something about Spotify,
(35:24):
which I'm just really not evensure.
I really know what it is, but,but that's a tiny example.
And I think on the flip side andit's, I wouldn't have it any
other way and I don't.
And on the flip side, I knowthat the fact that I was out
Speaker 3 (35:38):
There in the workforce in the 1990s and have
seen things in those years, thatinformed me about the, the two
thousands and then the 2010s.
And then, um, you know, I thinkthat that's invaluable to the
people that I work with who areyounger and we, um, but overall
it's, it's crucial for us.
We are a team, there are four ofus altogether on the core team,
(36:01):
um, and myself, Emily, Lauren,and Kendra, who does only
writing and social media with us, um, it's crucial to have all
of us involved.
And then there are a few othersthat we partner with on various
project.
And, uh, together we form a teamin our own way that our partners
(36:22):
in us, and it really is crucialto be able, not only to offer
various, um, skills to clients,but also among each other and
together to exchange ideas,experiences, knowledge, and
reactions.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Yeah.
And I think you hit on a superimportant point for people to
remember is, you know, that,that it's a team function when
you have, um, people that you'reworking with and that if you
approach your business or youragency or company, or what have
you, as a team, it's going tocome across that way to your
(36:59):
clients.
Um, I know that in working withyou is that I look at you, um,
your firm as a team.
And I know that, you know, wwhen I was looking at hiring a
publicist, I was looking atSharon predominantly in your
background.
However, when we got into thecampaign is Emily brought
(37:21):
certain things to the tablebased upon her experience and
where she is, um, you know, inher career path that made it
more conducive, cave, Emilyhandle certain components.
And, and I think that's soimportant for people to remember
is that if you're bringing insomebody into your business,
into your team, is that you haveto trust them and let them run
(37:46):
with it.
And that at certain point, youknow, if they're involved that
the clients may naturallygravitate to working with
different members of your teamat different points of the
client relationship.
And I think that's something,you know, from the outside that
I found it really easy to workwith your firm is to make that
(38:08):
transition, because you're allon the same page in terms of
your internal communication andfor a message.
And I really appreciate it.
And, uh, like to ask you
Speaker 3 (38:20):
Tony.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
But, uh, and I think that's important for everybody
in their business as a expandand bring on new people and
transition.
Um, I'd like to get in one morequestion if we can.
Uh, uh, so Karen, we'll startwith you.
What's your number one tip rulefor success.
If you had to pass on one Juulto everybody out there.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
Yeah.
I, my, my real deep feelingabout this is that for every
initiative you take, think abouthow you can help peop others
rather than what you want to getout of it.
And then go, I think that thatgoes for anything that we do
professionally, but inmarketing, it's so much more,
it's even more important becausemarketing, despite what people
(39:06):
might think is very much anexercise in reciprocation, it's
not a hard sell.
So if you're generous, if youoffer tips, if you offer
expertise, if you share yourtime and take the time to answer
people's questions, it will comeback and pay off in multiples.
It's just not necessarily astransactional as say, Hey, I'm
(39:27):
going to buy an ad.
You know, it's not, it's not thesame process.
Um, and then with that, whateveryou do be genuine people, people
sense when you're doingsomething just for publicity
sake or just for the sake ofclosing a deal, whatever it
might be, and they're likely toshut down, but when you're
genuine, people will genuinelywant to engage.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
I, I think that's really valuable advice, um, for
people who are selling, becauseit's not about selling it's
about service and providingsomething to clients, um, Emily,
what's your number one tip rulefor success that you'd like to
share?
Speaker 4 (40:02):
Yeah, that's a good question, Tony.
I think right now the one I'vebeen thinking about a lot is
just staying open to theprocess.
I think when I'm going to try tolike unpack that a little bit,
but not too much.
Um, I think that sometimespeople come into something with
(40:24):
a very, um, firm understandingof the, exactly how they want
something to look.
So whether it be a campaign ortheir message, or exactly where
they want to be placed, youknow, I need to be in the New
York times absolutely right now.
Um, and, and I think thishappens for every type of
business.
I think it happens in almostevery facet of life.
(40:45):
And the one thing that I thinkthose very well for people that
I've seen, um, in my work iswhen people come with a very
open-minded and open ear.
And again, as we have, you know,champions throughout this
process, I'm sorry, throughoutthis podcast being hospitable to
(41:10):
the teamwork process and stayingopen to a variety of
perspectives, um, it doesn'tmean never landing on a
decision.
It just means, you know, keepyour eyes and ears open.
You might see something or hearsomething that relates to your
brand that makes sense or turnsa light bulb on.
Um, or, you know, we may, youmay be pushed in one direction,
(41:31):
you know, when working with apublicist, keep your mind open
to the potential for thatmessaging or that idea to do
well, or to influence otherpeople.
And again, to feed into exactlywhat Sharon said, which is to
help them right in the end,that's the goal.
So I think staying open andbeing ready to see those
(41:52):
possibilities and let them kindof just happen is important.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Definitely.
And that's, I think such acritical point for, you know, no
matter the size of yourbusiness, whether you're a sole
agent or you're a multinationalcorporation that it's really
that personalization, thatcustomer focus, having that
communication.
And if you're a thought leader,getting your message out there
(42:21):
in a way that people canunderstand.
Um, so, uh, if you want to findout more about sharing it, Emily
, uh, they work with bothauthors and business thought
leaders.
Uh, their sweet spot is helpingbusinesses grow their profile
and audience by marketing theirleaders expertise, uh, sets
looking at you insurance company, CEOs, uh, agency, broker heads
(42:46):
, uh, you know, anybody whowants to grow their business.
I recommend it.
Uh, you can find out moreinformation about, uh, the
surfaces that Sharon and Emily,uh, provide at thoughts, savvy
marketing.com.
Uh, that URL will be in the shownotes.
Uh, thank you for tuning intothis episode of get ready with
(43:06):
Tony Stewart.
And thank you both.
Uh, Sharon and Emily for joiningme today.
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