Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:16):
Welcome to the Tony
Stewart get ready podcast in
partnership with insurancenerds, I'm pleased to be joined
today by Sheryl Garrett.
In this episode, we'll bediscussing career transitions
and specific issues that womenshould consider about financial
preparedness.
Cheryl is the founder of Garrettplanning network in its mid dub,
(00:37):
the All-American planner becauseof resell this mission to help
make competent objectivefinancial advice accessible to
all people she's been recognizedsix times by investment advisor
magazine is one of the mostinfluential people in financial
planning for the inauguralinvestment news icon in
innovation issue.
(00:57):
Cheryl was one of 18 recipientsof the 2016 innovator award
along with being the 2019 iconfinancial planning magazine in
2010, honored six practitionersthat have made significant
contributions in the financialplanning industry.
And this just list goes on.
Cheryl's one of the mostinfluential people in the
(01:19):
financial service industry, uh,on top of that, Cheryl's young,
aren't we all?
So, um, you know, so this listcould go on for a while, but we
actually wanted to get into somequestions.
Uh, we could just talk aboutCheryl's background for 45
minutes, uh, for the goodbiography is next week.
(01:47):
Uh, Cheryl, Cheryl's also beenhonored to work with the house
subcommittee on financialservices regarding predatory
lending regulation in histestified before Congress on
financial literacy.
So security and fiduciaryreform.
She's a founding member of thecommittee for the fiduciary
standard, which advocacyresulted in a shout out by
(02:10):
president Barack Obama in 2015,which we'll get into in a little
bit later because that is justvery cool.
Uh, in addition, Sheryl'sauthored coauthored and served
as a technical editor on over adozen books and several magazine
columns, uh, names, uh, Cheryl'sbooks will be in the show notes,
so let's get right into it.
(02:32):
Um, Cheryl, good morning.
Good morning.
So glad to be here with you,Tony.
Thank you.
Yeah, well, I'm just thrilled tohave you on.
Um, and so do you want to tellus a little bit about what you
do?
Oh gosh, where do we want tostart?
You mean my job?
(02:54):
It's the focus on the day job?
You know, if you can't have fundoing whatever you're doing,
it's, it's not even worth it.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Um, I currently, and
for the last few years have
gotten to focus most of myentire activities on being
spokesperson and visionary forthe Garrett planning network,
which is a nationwide network ofhourly-based financial advisors,
financial planners.
So we've, we're holisticfinancial planners.
(03:22):
Um, um, some people may haveexpertise in various different
areas, but one of the mainthings that we focus on is, um,
making competent objectiveadvice accessible to all people
there's always been, or at leastfor a good number of years here,
there's been great adviceavailable to those who had lots
of money, but, or lots of moneyto manage, um, or a big need
(03:46):
that we could fill with, um, um,you know, uh, an insurance
product or an investment productor, or both.
Um, but sometimes people needthings about their, their, um,
financial planning lives thatmay or may not involve the
products.
Um, and so it's kind of lookingat everything from a holistic
(04:08):
viewpoint, and then we turn tothe specialists to fill those
voids, um, um, for specificinsurance or investments or tax,
or if, you know, Hey, in mybook, I outsource everything if
it's complicated tax, becauseit's not something that I enjoy.
Um, so we pride ourselves inbeing, um, you know, really, uh,
(04:32):
the, the, the important part ismaking a great connection with
the client, um, figuring outwhat it is to help them, um, do
what it is they have shared withus that they want to accomplish.
And then, um, you know,identifying what needs to be
done, what, what services andproducts and strategies would be
(04:54):
appropriate.
And then we help them find thoseresources.
So, um, we can't, we can't doeverything for people, but we
can help work as kind of, um, Oh, you know, everyone uses the
term quarterback.
Um, but yeah, this is, this isthe sense where you may be the
quarterback.
Um, but you are using all yourspecialty teams, um, in the, in
(05:18):
the game almost exclusively, thequarterback's not running the
game, they're just facilitatingthe mousse, um, on behalf of the
client.
So, uh, we're fiduciaries.
Um, we charge for our time.
Um, we, um, work on a fee onlybasis.
Um, some of our members also doassets under management, um, but
(05:39):
they have the bench strength, um, and the skills and the desire
to do so it's not all thatcommon within our membership.
Most of us provide investmentadvice, um, insurance advice,
um, um, and, you know,traditional financial planning
type of guidance, but we do haveto, and like, um, and you know,
this is something that you and ITony have talked about for years
(06:03):
of, um, getting people withinthe financial services industry
to, um, utilize each other.
You know, the, the variousspecialists within the industry
is financial planning or thesubject matter in financial
services is so diverse that noone, well, okay.
(06:25):
I can think of like three orfour human beings I've ever met
that truly are walkingencyclopedias, but for the rest
of us, um, having, um, thosespecialists and knowing where to
turn, to get those experts invarious areas and coordinate
those on behalf of the client,or, or know who, who we would
(06:46):
turn to for various goods andservices is also a critical, um,
point of how we work withclients.
So we don't try to be everythingfor everybody.
Um, most people who are justgetting started, they might be
middle income clientele.
Um, they're, they need to befrugal.
Um, they can't afford, or atleast in my book, they shouldn't
(07:10):
afford, um, um, unless they haveextenuating circumstances like
cognitive decline or, or, uh,maybe they're just busy
professionals and can't justifydoing this legwork themselves,
but the majority of folks thatI've met with and worked with
over time, uh, true middleAmericans, you know, these would
(07:30):
be like the millionaires nextdoor, maybe five to 15 years
before they hit that millionairestatus, or maybe they've already
hit it.
Heck if they live in California,they, they have hit it because
of the price of their home.
Um, and estate values betweenthe insurance and the house, you
know, um, the concept ofmillionaire is it's kinda like
60 is the new 40 millionaire,um, is just, uh, maybe like
(07:56):
middle, middle income, um, formany of us.
Um, and, uh, uh, you know, youhave to be a multimillionaire,
um, or something more, much morethan that.
So, um, definitely when I'mspeaking of millionaires, um,
I'm still thinking of themillionaire next door
personality.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yeah.
Well, I think that's very trueand I, I, I love your point
about the quarterback and notbeing able to do everything.
And to remember that each of usbrings a specific set of skills
and we're doing our clients areal service when we concentrate
on what we do best and outsourcethose areas, uh, because then we
(08:34):
can spend more time helping morepeople with our specific skills.
So, you know,
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Exactly very, very
well put.
Um, if you don't mind, I want toshare a little story about a
gentleman that I used to workwith in Kansas city.
I live in Eureka Springs,Arkansas now, um, since I do
everything online and on theweb, you know, you can be
wherever you want to be.
Um, and when I was working withindividual clients and the
(09:01):
Kansas city area, um, I had agentleman and, um, that he
specialized in elder careinsurance and, uh, his name's
Michael, he's still in the, inthe business and everything.
It's just, I'm, I'm no longerworking with individual clients
and I'm no longer in the Kansascity market, but, um, the
(09:22):
relationship I had with my goaland, and he and I had with the
clients that we mutual served,it was, was wonderful.
And there are, there are manytimes where I might go to a
regional or national firm, um,to, or direct my clients to that
outlet.
Um, many times I need and want,and the clients need and want a
(09:43):
local connection.
Somebody that they can sit downwith and especially, you know,
something along the lines likelong-term care, possibly even
disability insurance, um,certain, certain types, um,
really need that expertise.
Um, and so I, I contactedMichael about, um, a client
(10:04):
situation where I felt long-termcare would be long-term care.
Insurance would be extremelyappropriate.
Um, so I talked to the clientsabout what I felt would be
appropriate and that I wouldlike them to speak with Michael
to get that implemented.
And they said, yes, we willspeak with him.
And, and I got a call, um,during or shortly.
(10:27):
Yeah, I think it was during thatmeeting.
And I had, I had teed theclients up for one thing and
stuff changes as you well know.
Um, one of the things thatholistic financial planners,
even though I'm not currentlyworking with clients, I live
vicariously through otherholistic financial planners in
our network of about 200, well,235 advisors around the country
(10:51):
right now, um, that did businessor do business as I did.
Um, and so, you know, we wereall over the last several years
starting to really embrace, um,this concept of outsourcing to
specialize participants.
I know that's kind of an oddword, but those that are
specialists in our industry andnot the holistic folks, um, the,
(11:15):
that we fill that role.
Um, and so Michael, um, beingthe elder care specialist, he
helped our clients withlong-term care and Medigap kind
of, uh, health insurance issues,you know, looking at Medicare,
which policy would be right, andwhich supplemental policy you
(11:35):
might need to add to that.
Um, and I found that to besomething that most people would
prefer to do face to face, andwe wanted that local connection,
and we've got people all overthe country and sometimes they
do live in a hinterland like Ido of a town of 10, uh, 2000
people.
Um, and so we do need to havethese long, long distance, um,
(11:59):
uh, connections, but, um, I'm,I'm really delighted with the
bifurcation or, well, more thanthat, it's, you know, we were
talking earlier about thesiloing of insurance products,
um, and that a human being, or ahousehold, they need often
something from each of thosesilos, but how they get it
(12:22):
delivered to them.
Um, many times is we, um, onecontact actually has to set up,
um, to make sure all thoseconnections get made.
So I, I'm a big fan of, um,practitioners working together
for the betterment of theirclient.
(12:42):
And that's really how we canfulfill our fiduciary duty, um,
is by not trying to be an expertat everything, um, be an expert
at what you can be, uh, what youwant to be and what you're
passionate out, and then findthe other expert that can help
build out that team.
We don't have to have it all inhouse.
And that's, what's so liberatingabout this.
(13:05):
You don't have this have smallfirms.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Yeah.
Well, and that's great advice is, um, a good portion of the
insurance nerds audience areyounger people in their career
path.
And, uh, you know, it's such avaluable lesson for them to
learn is that, you know, connectwith other people and, you know,
learn what they do.
Because again, it's all aboutbenefiting the client and
(13:31):
finding those people because wecan't all be specialist in our
areas.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Right.
Yeah.
And one of the things Irecommend, um, to a new
advisors, joining our network,new new planners, um, they may
be, they may have lots ofdecades of experience working as
a financial planner or advisorand, and just different business
model, but we work with folks by, for our time.
(13:58):
And, um, and so we do need tofind, um, those providers, um,
that can fill in the voids, youknow, we sell, we sell advice
and time, so we get a fee forthat advice.
Um, but our clients also needproducts, um, that we help
identify, um, or maybespecifically say, you know, I
(14:21):
think you need this, this andthis and this.
And I want you to go to thisspecialist to get it filled.
Um, now, as I learned through mycolleague, Michael, um, the
eldercare specialist, he, what,now this wasn't like some kind
of an, um, arrangement we set upahead of time, but
(14:43):
subconsciously maybe we did, um,that his exchange for me,
thinking of him and him keepingme in the loop with you, the,
the, like he would clip articlesabout things on the subject of
long-term care that he thought Ineeded to see.
So he was my personal, um, kindof keeping me in the news or not
(15:08):
in the news, uh, aware of thenews and making certain that I
didn't look stupid in front ofmy clients that I gave good Sam
solid advice, but one time, um,you know, it's really easy to
get out at eight, um, you know,products change or evolve, you
know, with these new hybridpolicies, which I'm really
(15:29):
getting quite excited aboutpersonally.
And I know, you know, some of,some of the insurance nerds are
probably going what a feelingfinancial planner type is
excited about insurance.
Yeah.
It's, we've changed, you know,for the longest time.
Um, I I've heard this and, andit's legit that fee only
(15:50):
planners think that, you know,clients don't need anything
else.
Well, yeah, we do.
Um, and I think that, that thiswhole notion of, but you guys
don't implement anything, um, orsomething along those lines,
that's another one, but w wehere, this is where insurance
professionals, um, you know, theproperty and casualty, the elder
(16:11):
care, the, you know, darn neareverybody, I meet doesn't have
enough life insurance.
Um, and then we a whole notherconversation about disability
insurance.
Um, none of us want to waste anyclient's money or time or
energy, but lo and behold, Ihave rarely met a person that
(16:34):
didn't have, or that had enoughcoverage.
Um, one of the books that youhad mentioned on the intro, Tony
was, um, um, I can't, I can'tremember where we got into it.
Um, but I was doing research onproperty and casually coverage.
I think this may have been forthe personal finance workbook
for dummies.
(16:54):
Um, and it was looking atproperty and casualty coverage.
I think we may have even touchedbase about this a few years ago.
Um, but I kept running intosituations where homeowners lost
a home in California due towildfire mudslides, something
like that.
(17:14):
And the appreciation had gone upfar faster than the policy.
They just bought five yearsbefore because the, you know,
the price is changing so rapidlynow I'm I was working in Kansas.
I'm sorry, that's my ownpunchline.
And if anybody else wants to go,go play fees, please feel free.
Um, but you know, we don't seethose kinds of housing swings.
(17:38):
Um, you know, it's just a nicelittle increase like this, or,
or S you know, slow and steady.
We don't see the fluctuationsthat the coasts or certain
pockets within the country dosee within housing prices.
And so someone like myself couldhave absolutely been caught off
guard.
I mean, if that was my client,um, who was woefully under,
(18:02):
under insured to the point thatthey didn't even have enough
coverage to cover the mortgage.
I mean, this is the vere, um,failure of planning.
How's that going and cool hand,Luke, we have a failure to
communicate.
(18:24):
Um, um, yeah, that would be areal failure to, um, do the
right thing for the client bynot being fluent or aware of
stuff that happens.
Um, because we're not in thatGI, the geography, um, is not in
our own backyard.
Um, you know, if we havenationwide clients and, um,
(18:48):
we're not addressing theseone-on-one situations, so
that's, that's one of the otherreasons why a local or, um, a,
uh, um, at least localrepresentatives have a national
presence, or at least a localpresence there to give us, um,
the kind of, uh, guidance andexpertise, um, you know, every
state's different.
(19:09):
Um, and then all these variouslines of insurance are different
.
Um, we, um, financial plannertypes, whether or not we are
licensed to sell insurance, wecan still, and my group are not,
um, a lot of, well, all fee onlyfinancial planners, like the
NAPFA organization, the nationalassociation of personal
(19:30):
financial advisors, which is,you know, pushing 400 or excuse
me, 4,000 members, um, our group, um, the X, Y planning network,
um, the Alliance ofcomprehensive planners and many
others are fee-only financialadvisor networks or membership
associations, and all of us, um,either don't have the legal
(19:54):
authority, uh, but due tolicensing or consulting licenses
to, um, either analyze orevaluate insurance products to
their fullest extent, wedefinitely don't have the
ability to provide them, youknow, sell the product and
implement it.
Um, and our clients need that.
(20:15):
So it would be, um, ineveryone's best interest to work
together on behalf of theclient.
And so we need thesespecialists, we need you all,
um, as financial advisors, it'sa, it takes a village
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Definitely.
Well, and I think the key pointthat I'm hearing there is that
it's looking at the products andservices that the client needs
rather than the products and theservices that you want to sell.
Uh, and I think that's been abig issue in the insurance
industry, and I think that's,what's so unique about the work
(20:52):
that Garrett planning networkdoes in other financial advisors
is because you're trying toanswer that question of, okay.
Instead of trying to get thatsquare peg in a round hole, you
know, what do we have bill wwhat are those holes in the
client's coverage?
You know, when we review thecoverage, do they have the right
, uh, coverage to rebuild, ifsomething should happen rather
(21:15):
than, you know, and need to sellthem an auto insurance policy,
maybe you don't need to sellthem the auto insurance policy
this year.
So, you know, that's, that's sovaluable.
So, you know, how did you getinto this?
You know, cause this is not thetypical way that the financial
services industry thinks
Speaker 2 (21:36):
I am a typical, that
that would be my, one of my
highest compliments actually.
Um, yeah.
Um, I launched my, my wellbacking up just a step.
I got started in the industry inlate, um, 89, 89, 86, 87 time
(21:58):
period with IDs Ameriprise.
Um, and, uh, it was one of thefew places that, you know, you
could get started in financialservices if you had no
background.
And I had zero background.
I mean, I might've had onesemester of something in college
that had anything to do with anyof this.
Um, you know, unlike many of thestudents graduating from
(22:20):
certified financial planningprograms and similar type
educations in college, I cameout of college with a, um, I
enjoyed, um, learning, but Istudied sciences, um, because
that's what I was good at.
And I wanted to have a job whereI made a difference.
(22:43):
Um, before I got out of college,I actually started working full
time.
I took the long road through mybachelor's program.
It took six years, um, and, uh,started working full time during
that period and started like,Hmm, maybe, maybe working in
science lab, tech type thing, or, or any of that.
(23:03):
I didn't have the, the, um,whatever you want to call it,
energy, passion, whatever ittakes to be a medical doctor.
Um, there's a lot of nurses inmy, my family, but I thought,
you know, I have to be unique.
I can't just be a nurse.
Um, you know, that would be verystereotypical for my family.
(23:26):
So I want to be somethingdifferent.
Um, and so actually I thought Iwas going to go into physical
therapy or something along thoselines, until I realized I'd have
to have four, four semesters ofcalculus or something.
And I changed majors in collegejust because of four semesters
of calculus.
Well, in other words, I bouncednot knowing what I wanted to do.
(23:48):
Um, but at the same time I wasreading money magazine cover to
cover.
I was reading bottom linepersonal because I wanted to
understand this personal financestuff.
I was, you know, mutual fundswere making it big time in the
mid eighties.
Um, and I was studying them inthe early eighties, um, right
after high school.
(24:08):
And I, I just, I love the ideaof becoming financially
independent, knowing a lot ofthese things that had not been
really publicly available untilthe, the, the kind of personal
finance tsunami that hit in theeighties and nineties of
awareness and so forth.
(24:29):
So basically I walked into whatI learned later was a brand new
emerging profession.
We're still emerging in my book.
Um, you know, 30, some years
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Later, um, I, you
know,
Speaker 2 (24:43):
We're still emerging,
but it's really cool to be part
of the co-creation of this newand very, very important, um,
role in people's lives.
I mean, one of the things I knewthat I wanted, Tony is whatever
I did for a living.
I needed to make a difference Ineeded to, when I, when I walked
away from my job at the end ofthe day, I needed to know that,
(25:07):
you know,
Speaker 3 (25:08):
If I didn't show up,
it would matter, you know,
Speaker 2 (25:12):
No, I wasn't just
some, I actually, you know, what
I do would fall in the categoryof business or entrepreneurship
or something like that, theconcept of business in high
school in college.
I mean, I even still roll my lipwhen I say it.
Now I'm a proud business owner,but if you would have talked to
(25:32):
me about entrepreneurship, Iwould have gotten excited as a
young person.
Um, I'm still a young person,but I mean, as a high school
college age person, I could havegotten really gung ho about the
entrepreneurship, um, ofbecoming an advisor, but it was
all just kind of new and, and,uh, and scary.
(25:52):
And, um, I was afraid to deathof clients for my first eight
and a half years after startingat IDs.
I did not want to have any facetime with clients.
Uh, I don't want to be the frontperson, um, is what I said in at
least to myself.
And I interviewed with a numberof different companies where I
(26:13):
could find a behind the scenesrole.
Um, you know, I had completed mycertified financial planner
designation by that time, butthat was like in 1991.
And the exam is so much morerobust than that.
I've taught, I've taught theinvest sprint segment of the
course.
Um, and one of my colleagues hastaught the intro portion for
(26:33):
several years at Kansas stateuniversity.
And, um, um, just looking at the, uh, the subsequent years of
the investment segment, it got aheck of a lot more complicated.
I don't think that it was thatmy memory just faded.
I really do believe that the,um, designation that the exam is
(26:57):
a lot meatier and a lot morerobust than it was when I took
it.
Plus it was six parts when Itook it.
And now it's one part, um, whichdefinitely makes a bigger deal.
It's much more like the CF CPAexam or the CFA exam.
Um, but, um, what's, uh, I gotinto this industry and found
(27:18):
what fit for me.
I started at IDs.
I was not, um, somebody whocould, um, support themselves on
transactional sales.
Um, I was told by my manager, mydistrict manager and, and
actually the team at idea said,Cheryl, you would be such a
(27:38):
great trainer.
You know, when you get somebodyin front of you, you do so well.
And I was really getting excitedabout the idea of, you know,
moving into a training role.
Um, but my production was sohorrible because I couldn't make
a cold call if my life dependedon it.
And, um, you know, I, I mean, I,I understand, um, the, some
(28:04):
people do that and they can doit and stuff, but I couldn't.
Um, and so believe it or not, Ifaked it.
And if you don't hit the lastnumber when you dial, you know,
so we're all, you know, there'slike seven of us up in this
bullpen and I was 24 years old.
It was like 1987.
(28:25):
It crashes is happening andwe're like, wow, that's pretty
side.
And I'm glad I don't have anyclients yet.
If I had clients with money onit, it would be a big deal, but
we were all so relatively new.
Um, you know, I was, I had been,um, going through training with
ideas about a year at, by thattime when the market went down
(28:47):
big time and in October of 87,but we were just, you know,
young and to at least to speakfor myself, blissfully ignorant
of what I didn't know, but I wasso hungry to learn more.
Um, the firm did not want us to,um, study the CFP or study
(29:08):
anything other than sales andthe products and what the
company needed us to do.
Um, but I needed to know morefor my own comfort level, um, to
be able to like talk to people.
So, um, I am very, very gratefulto have a start through IDs.
(29:29):
Um, but I also recognized thatit wasn't a good fit for me.
They were much more limited thanas well compared to now, as far
as the product lineup and soforth and, and what kind of
flexibility that can providefinancial planning and so forth.
But, um, so after that, Idefinitely got hooked on, on
what my notion of financialplanning was, but it couldn't
(29:50):
quite find the right home.
And I bounced around from, youknow, kind of being, um, uh, I
don't think kind of, I was girlfrom Friday, um, assistant to,
uh, only, um, uh, we didn't callit wealth manager or family
(30:11):
office at the time, but that'swhat this firm was doing, taking
care of about 24 households.
And I was balancing people'scheckbooks and, and doing stock
and analysis and everything inbetween.
So I really got a greateducation working for that
gentlemen, but I also startedgoing, but what about the people
who don't have a lot of money todeal with?
(30:34):
And, um, so I went to work at acouple of other firms, um, as an
employee at the next one, um,got, um, a lot more completed.
The more education, got a lotmore confidence.
And then I joined, uh, what nowwe call a wealth management firm
, um, as a 50 50 partner.
And I stayed there for aboutthree and a half years.
(30:56):
And we, we had my partner had anestablished firm, but got named
on one of these lists.
It happened to be the F worthmagazine, uh, list of top one, a
one, a hundred advisors.
The first time it came out.
Um, so 1995 or somewhere aboutthere, 19 eight 98, that
(31:16):
timeframe 95, 94, 95, somethinglike that.
Um, and so the gal got, um,listed and she's like, I am so
busy.
Why don't you come help me?
And so I joined her firm as a 5050 partner and, uh, um, I, I
have to acknowledge thateverything that I did and I'm
(31:39):
skipping a few positions, um,but everything I did for the
first, basically 11 and a halfyears of my career, um, was all
in pursuit of finding whatactually I would enjoy.
Um, I enjoyed the notion offinancial planning, um, but I
didn't actually made it until Igot to work with regular people
(32:00):
on an hourly basis and chart andsell my time and advice.
Um, and that's when I reallytruly fell in love with it.
Um, and I mean, I'm stillsmiling, you know, I, I, uh, I,
I found that by charging for mytime.
Um, it does put the owners onusof profitability and
effectiveness, you know, on theadvisor, but I feel that's
(32:24):
appropriate.
And, um, as fiduciary being ableto do what I felt was in my
client's best interest was, wasa lot easier with, um, being the
boss, you know, without havingsomebody, Cheryl, you need to do
this, this and this before theend of this week.
Um, you know, the clients arethe, are the bosses, um, for us.
(32:48):
And then I have the opportunityto need to go out and find how
to fulfill everything that theclient needs.
Um, and that's when we talkabout the, the, uh, specialized
participants, um, you know,namely insurance, investment
manager, ongoing investmentmanagement, cause I, I no longer
(33:10):
provide to that, uh, uh, partsof my career I did.
And I actually got into the, uh,the CFA program, charter
financial analyst programbecause I thought I wanted to be
a mutual fund manager.
I got over there over that afterabout a year and a half, but I
did have that illusion for awhile.
And, um, luckily I recognizedthat I really am much more of a
(33:30):
holistic, um, um, advisor andwould like it to be that way.
And I appreciate those who aremuch more specialized in their
area and I can turn to them,like if someone came to and the,
you know, I definitely had these, um, examples of clients coming
to me and perhaps the situationwas, um, we're, we're curious
(33:53):
about, um, you know, maybe, youknow, what a CRUT or a family
limited partnership or both theappropriate, well, I, I knew
enough about what those toolswere, um, to be able to say, and
there were a couple ofsituations where the client's
introduced or brought it up tome, Hey, Cheryl, do you think
(34:15):
such and such would beappropriate for me?
And it's like, yeah, actuallycome to think of it.
So it was kind of embarrassedthat the client had to bring it
up, but, um, you know, at thesame time she was a retired
professor, so I felt a littlebit better there.
Um, but it was like, yes.
And that's a brilliant idea.
Let me, let me, um, do a little,um, research and then we'll get
(34:39):
together, you know, soon andtalk about it.
So I went back to my initial,um, uh, studies and I'm like,
okay, well, that's, that's thebasics now I need to get some
more.
And so I contacted one of myother, um, must, must have, um,
contacts of my specializedparticipants.
(35:00):
And that's an elder careattorney who actually, um, used
to speak at our financialplanning, um, um, uh, monthly
meetings as an educator.
And I call an contacted Craigand, um, you know, he provided
me with the insights that Ineeded, um, and said, yes, that
does sound like a perfect fitfor that client.
(35:22):
You know, sometimes like you'llmeet the perfect situation for a
defined benefit pension plan or,um, you know, this person should
take a lump sum distributionfrom their retirement account
versus the monthly pension paidcheck.
Um, um, when should they takesocial security distribution?
So a lot of those things are thetypes of questions that we deal
(35:43):
with as financial planners.
Um, and they don't have, theydon't have products involved.
And, um, one of the things Iwant to make crystal clear to
the audience is I've verystrongly feel that professionals
should be paid for their work.
Um, and, um, the, the reason Ichose to be an hourly advisor is
(36:05):
simply because I wanted to beavailable for those that didn't
have substantial assets tomanage.
I didn't want to have to chargeAUM.
In fact, I discontinued it andno longer offered it.
And I went strictly hourly.
Um, clients also don't want ameter that all automatically
runs, so they needed to knowwhat to expect.
(36:28):
And so I quoted in the actualtime anticipated, but also
separately recognizing the, youknow, think of me as your, um,
you know, your, your advocate,your financial advocate, and I'm
gonna help you put together, um,uh, a plan of action to
accomplish all the things thatyou've shared with me, um, that
(36:48):
you're trying to do.
And we're going to have to bringin some experts, um, in various
areas.
Um, you know, whether that be in, regarding the stock options
and the taxation on those that Idon't want to deal with.
Cause I'm really not your experton that.
Um, or if it's, um, you know,perhaps a S a more complex
estate planning issue, I've gotthose people, um, we need to,
(37:13):
um, we need to fill that, uh,Erivo bill, life insurance trust
with, um, a large life insurancepolicy.
I need to get that filled.
So I really, um, love being in atrusted role of helping the
client pull all of these piecestogether, because I'm very much
(37:34):
like dieting or exercise you'reeating right, and exercise money
management.
It's kind of all the same, manyof us know what we should do,
but we need somebody to help usmake it happen.
And I see that as the financialplanners role, um, but then the
financial planner themselvesneeds to turn often.
(37:58):
Um, and oftentimes with the sameclient to outside professionals,
to be able to completely fillthe bill.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Yeah.
Well, I think probably the mostimportant thing you said there
is, well, you, you said a lotfrom Fort thinks.
I shouldn't say the mostimportant thing, but you know,
just the one word to focus on ishelp is, uh, that it's all about
help.
How can you best help people?
Um, and with your careertransition, and your focus is
(38:31):
first, you were, you know,finding where you fit in so many
people entering, uh, you know,professional services, I guess,
whatever you want to call ittoday are going to go to so many
different things that, you know,finding what you like and what
your talents are, and, you know,how you can help people is
(38:54):
really what it's about and youknow, how you work with other
professionals.
Um, you know, I want to get intoone more deep question with you,
uh, is, you know, we've talkedoffline, uh, a lot about women
in the financial servicescommunity.
And I know that younger womenI've spoken with oftentimes
(39:17):
feel, not quite alienated is notquite the right word, but, you
know, how do you feel, how, howcan women, you know, make a
difference?
How can they, uh, you know,succeed in the financial
services industry?
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Um, thanks for
bringing that up, Tony.
Um, I don't have all the answersthat's for sure.
One of the things that, um, youknow, that helping profession, I
think definitely when women cansee themselves in roles, that
they feel like that, um, youknow, men and women just are
(39:57):
female, male, uh, uh, we allhave, um, hopefully we all have
some of those characteristictraits of both male and female,
and it, you know, I hate tostereotype, but, but then she
goes off and does it, um, butyou know, if you think about,
(40:18):
um, if we wanted to think of, ofmen at, at, at highest level and
women at the highest level, whenit comes to money and what money
means to men in their lives and,and women, and oftentimes for
men, these are no judgements atall.
These are just kind ofgeneralization statements, but
it's important to think about isfor men, it may be power or
(40:39):
status for women.
It may be security.
Those are, are often, you know,quite different.
Um, um, they might mean the samething.
You know, like if I have, if Ihave everything covered
financially, you know, if I havea big pile of money, I feel, um,
(41:01):
a level of prestige, I feel alevel of power and my wife is
feeling secure, you know, so itmight get solved in the same
way, but it's the emotions, um,that we need to address.
And I don't care folks when youhear people arguing that, but
they got the best return.
You know, that's not fiduciary,doesn't say it has to be the
(41:24):
cheapest thing or the bestreturn or whatever it says, you
have to do.
What's in the best interest ofthe clients and if means harmony
at home, and that the ability tosleep comfortably, even if it
means a little less return, buta lot more comfort, then that's
(41:45):
the right thing.
And so it's a lot of art versusscience and, and that's when I
see women, um, can be, um,really extraordinary at this
because of their probing, thenurturing skills, the types of
questions, the consultativenature, that a lot of women feel
quite natural, um, especiallythrough a support situation.
(42:10):
Um, I attended, um, or have, um,a handful of times, and it's a
great conference.
If anybody listening, hasn'tbeen to this, the Institute of
certified divorce, financialanalysts, um, I know there's
more than one, um, uh,organization, um, for, you know,
divorce, specialization, um, andtraining.
(42:32):
But, um, I went to theirconference and looking out in
the audience, just eyeballing,I'd say it was probably about
60, 65% women and men who really, um, feel quite comfortable
with that consultative role.
And, um, um, it was, it wasgreat and also in financial life
(42:54):
planning conferences.
Um, and when we start looking atfinancial wellness and, you
know, outside of how do you get,um, you know, the best
investment return as fast aspossible when you move outside
of those subject areas, youstart seeing a lot more women.
Um, we were talking about, uh,uh, fellow mutual friend of ours
(43:18):
, um, just before we got on thisconversation.
Her name also is Cheryl spelledthe same S H E R Y L.
And, uh, um, so, you know, I,it's Cheryl Brown, she's doing
some great things and femalesand finance and Tony is, is on
one of the, uh, uh, what isofficially the category, um, or
(43:40):
the, the, the team that you'rehelping to be on
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Man, male ally
network.
Uh, it just, it's pretty, I likeit.
It's clever.
Um, and just as a side, Cheryl'sgoing to be a guest on the
podcast app probably in about amonth for two podcasts.
So,
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Uh huh.
And, you know, so I think it's,I think it's fabulous when we
start recognize, and there's somany of us in this industry, um,
and there's so many differentclients and client needs.
And so, you know, trying to beeverything to everybody, nobody
can, nobody wants to in reallife.
I mean, at first, when you'resupposed to, you know, go out
(44:23):
and get as much business aspossible, you think so, but
really finding those, thoseright fit.
You know, when, when I, um,being able to work with the
types of people that I felt most, most comfortable with, um, it
would be basically like myneighbors, my friends, the
people I grew up with, um, myfather was raised in, uh, with a
(44:45):
very poor background and he meta, a woman in, in high school
who had a car.
I mean, she was hot stuff.
Speaker 4 (44:53):
That's my parents.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
And, uh, just almost
70 years later, they're there,
I'm still doing great as a, as awonderful couple.
But, uh, you know, they camefrom very, very different
financial, um, places in theirworlds.
And it was hard on my mother'sfather to, to ever feel that my
dad could, could take care ofher, um, as he could.
(45:15):
And, and so it was reallyinteresting, but these are some
of the things that we're movinginto.
And as, uh, one of our long time, uh, female leaders in this
industry once said, um, I'm notgoing to name names just for her
own protection, but it was, uh,it was a beautiful quote.
So, um, she a beautiful, in ahorrible way, not, it's not met
(45:38):
horrible, but it's true.
It's like we were expressingsome frustration about something
at one point she said, butpeople die.
And the point is, you know,stuff changes.
We evolve.
Um, the industry evolves, um,you know, folks, we have been,
uh, insurance, um, the parts ofinsurance have been the same for
(46:03):
hundreds of years, but there'selements of insurance that are
changing like these new hybridpolicies and, um, longevity
insurance and things like thatthat are almost brand new to
many of us or relatively brandnew.
Um, and, um, then you takeanother chunk of the financial
(46:25):
planning, um, arena, mayberetirement plans or employee
benefits or tax, or, um, youknow, all these other areas,
including investments and, and,um, you know, there's just too
much for any, any one humanbeing to be able to, to handle
capably.
Um, and so when it gets down toit, I think it's communication,
(46:48):
you know, what is it that youwant, what is you're trying to
accomplish?
How best can we do it?
Um, and what I found and I'mloving, um, is sometimes, um,
and some of my favorite storiesto share when I've worked with
clients or even just hadconversations with people will
after I discontinued workingwith individual clients, and now
(47:09):
I'm, I'm exclusively workingwith advisors.
Um, but I still talk to thepublic periodically.
Um, and to find that I have somethings that they can be very
valuable to them.
One of my favorite stories, um,as far as to try to, you know,
(47:30):
what the heck is a financialplanner versus the money manager
or versus, you know, some kindof other financial advisor, um,
uh, probably 10 or so years ago,I was at a, a book talk.
Um, one of these books that Ico-authored, or, or participated
in or wrote whatever, um, cameout and I was in Minneapolis
(47:50):
area at a bookstore, um,independent bookstore in, in the
back of the bookstore.
They have a little gatheringroom and 10 or 12 of us were,
were in that area.
I had chatted for a few minutesabout the book that had come out
and I asked the audience if theyhad any, any questions about
anything that they had heard oranything they might want to ask
(48:11):
a financial advisor type orfinancial planner.
And one lady shared that she was52 years old and, um, she had a
little over$50,000 to invest andshe wanted to know how I thought
she should invest it forretirement.
Well, you know, you could jumpright in and say, you know, you
(48:32):
could set up a mutual fund orsediment account with such and
such, but, you know, really thatprobably wasn't the point, um,
or not the issue that we shouldfocus so much on.
And so I, I stepped back and Iasked her this, this was, this
whole thing, took like 10minutes.
I asked her, um, you know, whatis it you do for a living?
(48:54):
And tell me a little bit aboutyour family come to find out
she's, uh, she had been a singlemom for a long, long time.
Um, both of her daughters are incollege.
The first one is a brand newfreshmen.
The eldest one is a junior andearlier in the year, uh, or just
a few months prior, she was, um,at the counselor's office
enrolling the, the second oneinto college.
(49:15):
And she started looking throughthe college, um, application or
the offering materials andcareer path and stuff for
herself at 52.
Um, she was working in apart-time position making$13,000
a year and they made ends meet.
(49:36):
These people are miraculous.
I have goosebumps just thinkingabout what they were able to
accomplish, never, you know, hadsupport other, you know, they
took care of themselves and didreally well.
They lived on the bus line.
So, you know, and so, um, sheshared the story that, you know,
when she was a young woman, she,or a little girl, um, and a
young woman, she wanted to be anurse.
(49:58):
And, um, she went to college andshe was in college.
Her first year met her soon tobe husband.
They got married, she droppedout of college.
She had two children and here weare several decades later.
Um, so she had one year ofcollege under her belt.
Now she's had been a single mom.
(50:18):
Most of that time, it soundedlike, and I asked her, is there
any way that you could gofull-time with this employer?
Um, and you know what that seemlike to you?
And she's like, Oh, that's notan option.
I'd have to have a master'sdegree to go full time.
Um, and I said, what would youreally like to do?
And that's when she shared,she'd like to be an RN.
(50:39):
And so, you know, I, uh, shesaid, so what are you doing?
What do I do with this money?
And I said, well, if I were you,you're living on$13,000 a year
know gross income coming in, orhousehold income coming in.
So after tax take that money,this is not an a retirement
(51:01):
plan.
So it was set aside for her nestegg, but she didn't have a
retirement account.
It was just in a, in a taxableaccount.
I said, take that money andspend that no more than you
already currently are to supportyour lifestyle.
Um, just pay the rent, you know,pay your expenses and borrow as
(51:23):
much money as possible and, andget as many grants as possible
with three of you in the samehousehold.
And in college at the same time,it cannot get any better than
this with no income and threestudents so apply for as much
grant and aid as possible.
And then, okay, so you're goingto be 55 years old and an RN.
(51:44):
And all of a sudden, she justpoofs up with this pride and, uh
, you know, almost like, Oh mygosh, she could see it envision
this.
And she's like, Oh my goodness.
And the other people, there werea handful of others in this
chat.
And they said, yeah.
And signing bonuses at thehospitals are over$5,000 and the
(52:06):
clinics, you know, a little lessthan that.
And she's like, yes, I wouldlove to work at a clinic,
ideally, but hospital would begreat.
And I said, do you think youcould do this for 10 years?
And she goes, Oh my God, Cheryl,if I could be a nurse, what I've
always wanted to dream too.
I mean, I'm talking about dreamsof maybe a 16 year old here or
whatever, 14 year old.
(52:28):
And she's finally able to seethem fulfilled just 40 years
later.
So she went to school to becomean RN with that nest egg.
It would be really easy to say,go invest it and keep on keeping
on, but that wasn't the issue.
Human capital here taking thatmoney and investing in her after
(52:52):
graduation estimated pay.
And this is from the communitymembers in the, in the chat.
They said, friends make startingsalary between 45 and$55,000 a
year plus amazing benefits.
This woman had been making 13with no benefits.
Can you do this for 10 years?
(53:14):
How old this until I drop, shestarted crying.
This is what makes me love whatI do.
And that's, that is why love thefreedom of getting able to
charge for my time instead ofthe product that fits, because
in this equation, there was noproduct.
(53:37):
It was don't even invest.
It invest well.
Yeah, invest it, but invested inyou in your education.
And, you know, sometimes it'snot so easy to just that's the
answer.
But with that situation, I thinkthat really illuminates the
difference between what aholistic financial planner or
financial life planner might bethinking and what your
(53:59):
stereotypical financial planneror investment advisor might
think.
Um, when I ask a similarquestion and so I, I love the
holistic nature and, and, uh,really looking at all resources,
um, and you know, like the homeand I had one client, um,
(54:21):
actually it was a prospectiveclient.
She wanted to hire me, but, youknow, she was, she was already
cashflow short and we talkedabout an income, you know,
turning her home into having anincome suite.
Um, and I, I gave her somecontacts at our County extension
agency that actually helped pair, um, older people with
(54:45):
able-bodied, uh, folks that canhelp out with some of the care
and maintenance of the home orthe home owner.
And actually that was thesolution that she needed at the
time.
So it was County resources andjust thinking outside the box.
Um, so that's what I think makesthis extra fun, but also we have
(55:07):
to know, um, who our resourcesare, how to tap in to, um, know
what kind of, um, tools andstrategies that we could, um,
get into and how to find thesepeople.
Um, so Tony, how do we findthose experts suggestions?
(55:28):
I have a couple of what I tellplanners to do, but I'd like the
, uh, the insurance specialistto know.
Speaker 1 (55:36):
Well, I, I think, uh,
the way I've met people over the
years is just to, um, connectwith people and to listen, uh,
that listening is the best skillwe can practice.
And, uh, you know, I met you,I've met so many people across
the industry and I I've beenfortunate, the majority of my
consulting practice, which I'vewound down over the last year is
(56:00):
consulting for financialadvisors.
And, uh, you know, so I've beenfortunate enough to be able to
connect with people that way.
Um, so yeah, gosh, there's somuch, and there's so much more
we could talk about, but I thinkwe need to wrap up, uh, and
everything.
Speaker 2 (56:19):
One thing I want to,
I want to stress on this is
it's, it's a lot morecollaborative in our, in our
industry where specialists and,um, whole, uh, generalists like
myself, um, and my colleagues inour network and peers.
(56:39):
Um, I think we're a lot moreopen-minded to, you know, I know
we have been guilty of saying,you know, uh, some people, no
annuities, no whateverinsurance, you know, I'm just
clamming up on all of that or,you know, none of those kinds of
investments or whatever.
Um, um, a lot of us arerecognizing that, um, we cannot
(57:05):
accomplish what we need to dowithout working in tandem with
the right kind of experts.
And, um, so, um, you know, we'reall learning and we are changing
and growing and outsourcing moreand more.
And so I think that's, that'sthe big takeaway I'd like people
to hear on this is that, um,we're all in the same industry.
(57:28):
Um, and we want the same outcomeis a great experience for the
client, um, and to fill thoseneeds, um, provide for what
people need.
And so simply an invitation that, yeah, um, some of us who had
been, um, um, probably mistakeand, or not re not mistaken, but
(57:49):
rightfully accused of beingclosed minded, we're not so much
that way anymore.
And we are very much open, um,or need to be.
Um, so just keep at it.
Um, we need to be, um, educatedas you specialists can help us
to become, and we can, um,oftentimes we are in contact
(58:11):
with a lot of the, um, um, youknow, clients and, and, uh, um,
people from the community thatwe might be able to serve.
And so, you know, without usconnecting, um, you know, we're
really missing out and, and, youknow, Tony did, you did a great
job in reaching out to methrough LinkedIn.
(58:34):
Um, and it's been years that wefirst, uh, connected, but I
would encourage all that arelistening to this message is,
um, you know, you have important, um, um, skills and, um, um,
subject matter expertise thatothers need and want.
(58:55):
Um, and we're much moreopen-minded than we ever have in
the past.
So please give us a second or18th chance.
Um,
Speaker 1 (59:05):
But I love that
because it is all about helping
people and it's all that, thateach of us brings a unique
outlook and skills andperspective to the table.
So, Cheryl, I mean, the last andmost important question is where
can people learn more aboutyou're up to, and
Speaker 2 (59:22):
To stay in touch with
you?
Oh, sure.
Um, well, I'm, I, I am onFacebook and LinkedIn, um, and
the Garrett planning network,um, it's G a R R E T T, uh,
Garrett planning, network.comand, uh, we're in process of
updating the front part of ourwebsite.
(59:44):
So it'll look different if youcheck in today and you check in
a few months from now, but, um,regardless, come and meet us,
reach out and connect with us.
Um, we're always looking for,uh, for, um, you know, the right
kind of people and the rightconnections and the right
companies and the rightsolutions.
I mean, I can't believe, but,you know, I own a couple of
(01:00:06):
products that I said I would,you know, never think that I
would even consider for aclient.
I own them myself.
Um, and so it was a combinationbetween raising my understanding
and education on the subject.
And also some of these toolshave improved, you know, there's
no, I don't think any of uswould deny that.
(01:00:28):
Um, and, um, uh, next for mybucket list is, uh, you know, as
far as financial planning, alongevity annuity, um, the, the
women and the women in my familylive a long time.
And, uh, so, you know,longevity, annuities, um, I
think, uh, and I'm also really,really high on, um, um, hybrid
(01:00:53):
policies, um, that have along-term care and life
insurance or annuity benefitdepending on the, what the
client needs.
But as I mentioned earlier,everybody I've met needs life
insurance.
Um, so having a hybrid policythat could work as life
insurance and, or long-term caremight really fit, um, certain
(01:01:15):
cases, but also a longevityannuity.
Um, you know, there's a lot ofthese products that for some
advisors would be brand new, um,for others, you know, I'm
speaking to the choir and I'mout of I'm out of date, but, um,
I'm, I'm telling you what a lotof my peers know and feel about
(01:01:36):
things.
So, um, your role is, and thenbringing up property and
casually, that's a whole notherthing.
Um, we need, let me know whenyou're doing, um, um, more
education and podcasts onproperty and casualty insurance
all bring the whole team because, um, you know, we, we need, we,
(01:02:01):
we, we could use more, um,insurance, nerd education, um,
uh, in those areas as well.
Um, but I think it's, yeah,we're nerds, so whatever, but
we're getting some really,really cool tools and strategies
out there.
Um, but sometimes the planes andElla stuff is exactly what we
(01:02:22):
need.
Um, but even if you got plainvanilla, um, uh, I assure you
that financial advisor probablyneeds that, um, that connection
and that education that you canprovide.
So, um, you know, we, we all canhelp fulfill the client's needs
by working together.
Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
Oh yeah.
Well, definitely.
Well, thank you so much.
And I know the insurance nerdscommunity would welcome you as a
part of it with your invaluableinsight.
And I'd like to thank you somuch for joining me today.
Cheryl, it's been a pleasure asalways my
Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
Pleasure, Tony, thank
you
Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
Again.
Yeah.
So thanks everybody.
And, uh, please remember tosubscribe to the, get ready with
Tony Stewart podcast.
Have a great day until nexttime.
Speaker 5 (01:03:15):
Yeah.