January 31, 2025 • 47 mins
On the latest episode of The Get Ready Money Podcast, I spoke with Barry Fisher, CEO of Blaze ’n’ Bear Insurance Services and host of the Protecting What Matters radio show about changing the way we think about money and protecting what matters.
In this episode we discussed:
- Why long term care planning is an essential part of financial planning.
- How advisors can start to have conversations on long term care planning.
- Why long term care insurance is just part of the puzzle - it’s a funding mechanism.
- The future of long term care insurance.
- How business valuations help with succession planning.
Barry J. Fisher is the CEO of Blaze ‘n Bear Insurance Services, Inc. a firm dedicated to helping small and medium sized business owners achieve financial success by concentrating on matters pertaining to business continuation, succession and estate planning. Blaze ‘n Bear’s business valuation service is the centerpiece of its planning practice.
In 1999 Barry co-founded the American Association for Long Term Care Insurance (“AALTCI”). As AALTCi's first president, Barry helped create the Long-Term Care Professional (“LTCP”) designation. He is also past-president of the California Association of Health Underwriters (2001) and Chairman of CAHU-PAC (2004-2006) where he helped raise over $1,000,000 for political advocacy.
Barry has served on the California Department of Insurance (“CDI”) Curriculum Board and on various CDI workgroups pertaining to legislation and insurance agent education. He is also a Past Chairman of the ILTCI Conference and served on the Society of Actuaries Long-Term Think Tank. He has been a frequent contributor to industry publications on a wide range of insurance and legislative topics and is a sought-after speaker at industry events.
Barry hosts a weekly 90-minute radio broadcast on KPRL (1230AM) called “Protecting What Matters”, and supports a number local & national charities and organizations dedicated to creating better communities.
Connect with Barry Fisher:
Website (here).
LinkedIn (here).
Radio Show:
Protecting What Matters Radio Show (here).
Mentioned on this episode:
Investopedia: www.investopedia.com
Real Clear Politics: Realclearpolitics.com
Planning for Long-Term Care survey findings (Lincoln)
The Get Ready Money Podcast and its guests do not provide investment advice. All content is for educational purposes. Guest opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of The Get Ready Money Podcast and Tony Steuer.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Megan Ratto (00:04):
Are you looking to get ready, be prepared and
transform your financial future?
Then you've come to the rightplace.
This is the Get Ready MoneyPodcast with Tony Stewart, where
Tony has insightfulconversations with financial
experts who are changing the waywe think about money.
Catch up on the latestfinancial trends and hear
(00:27):
practical advice from Tony andhis expert guests so you can
build healthy habits that work,Be empowered with tips for
implementing small changes thatcan have a big impact on your
financial future.
So sit back and get ready tohear from today's guest.
So sit back and get ready tohear from today's guest.
Tony Steuer (00:49):
Welcome to the Get Ready Money podcast changing the
way we think about money.
I'm pleased to be joined todayby Barry Fisher.
Barry is the president and CEOof Blaze and Bear Insurance
Services and host of theProtecting what Matters radio
show.
In this episode, we'll bediscussing Barry's insights on
how we change the way we thinkabout money and protecting what
(01:10):
matters.
Barry, welcome to the Get ReadyMoney podcast.
Thanks for joining us today.
Barry Fisher (01:14):
Tony, thanks for inviting me.
Tony Steuer (01:16):
Yeah, I'm excited.
I mean, we've known each otherfor a long time, but you know,
let's not go down that road.
Barry Fisher (01:26):
Yeah for our watchers and listeners.
Tony Steuer (01:27):
You know, but there's nothing bad.
You know, barry.
You know let's get started.
You know, tell me, you know,maybe share with the audience a
little bit about yourself.
What is your origin story?
Barry Fisher (01:36):
Well.
So, interestingly enough, lastweek I started my 49th year in
the life and health insurancebusiness and I have no plans to
retire.
I enjoy what I do.
Probably one of the bestdecisions I made in the long run
was getting involved in thisaspect of it.
Basically because I'm a serialentrepreneur, you know, and I'm
(01:58):
being an independent lifeinsurance agent, a long-term
care insurance guy.
I'm my own boss and I've beendoing it like this for almost 50
years now.
So it's been great.
I grew up in Southern California, but over the years I've lived
in numerous places.
In high school I got moved toMassachusetts.
(02:19):
I lived outside of Boston for afew years.
I came back to California,graduated from UCLA, got
accepted to law school andbusiness school and just decided
again.
I enjoyed working and being myown boss and I was done with
studying.
I'm more of a doer than astudent, really.
(02:42):
And then you know you've been inthe life insurance industry,
health insurance industry, foryears as well.
You know it's not an easy thingto do, and so I had good years
and bad years, and I guess myclaim to fame is that about 1990
, I kind of fell into thewholesale side of the long-term
(03:03):
care insurance industry and bywholesaling.
That meant I was anintermediary between the
insurance companies and brokersinsurance agents and it was just
the timing was right.
California was just institutingits eight-hour requirement to
be able to sell long-term careinsurance.
I was able to get a courseapproved.
(03:23):
I was one of the first I wasn'tthe first, but I was one of the
first to get the eight hour CEcourse approved for
certification to sell long-termcare insurance in California and
I used it as a recruiting tool.
It was before.
It was before you know onlinestuff.
It was before all the you knowthe you know online stuff.
(03:46):
That was before all the youknow the, the, the, whatever
correspondence courses even.
And it was.
It was just the timing wasright.
You know I won't go into allthe details, but I've been on
boards of national organizationsand and I'm an educator I view
myself more as an educator thanI do an insurance agent, even
though the insurance is part ofthe education.
So I was a wholesaler.
(04:06):
I sold the agency.
I had a national operation.
We sold that in 2014, 2013 and2014.
I sold the agencies, went off tobe a consultant.
Covid killed off the business,the consulting business, and
then I was sitting around myranch here in the beautiful Paso
Robles area of California oneday and I just said, I got to
(04:29):
find something to do and Idecided to go back into personal
production, and that hasmorphed into some new courses as
well.
But I'm really enjoying workingwith consumers.
But I also primarily work withother financial advisors and
property casualty agents whojust don't want to sell life or
long-term care insurance, and soit's been a fun.
(04:50):
Started as a retirement gig,now it's become again another
business that I get to build.
So that's my origin story.
Tony Steuer (04:59):
Well, that's awesome.
And where you and I met was weboth served on the California
Department of InsuranceCurriculum Board, where we
helped create the exam outlinesand continuing education
requirements for long-term careinsurance, as well as other
lines of coverage.
Yep, absolutely, it was funyeah and we were able to really
(05:22):
make a difference.
Yeah, I just want to back upfor one thing because I know
this comes up a lot for peopleis could you define the
difference between agent andbroker?
Barry Fisher (05:32):
Yeah, so it's funny.
I had this conversation withsomebody the other day.
So there really is.
You know, unless things havechanged since we were on the
curriculum board, there reallyis no such thing as a life or
health insurance broker, abroker, the relationship of a
broker, those are propertycasualty type guys and they
(05:54):
really represent their clientsdirectly and that's the term of
art within the insurance code.
Life insurance guys and healthinsurance folks are agents.
So theoretically we arecontractually obligated to the
insurance company.
But again, we're alsoindependent agents.
So we have the most of us areat this point.
(06:16):
You know, back when I started49 years ago, most of us were
captive agents.
We worked for Metropolitan Life, for New York Life, and that
was our primary company.
But what's happened is most ofus who are still doing life
insurance and long-term careinsurance are independents and
we have multiple relationships,but we're still insurance agents
(06:37):
.
We're not brokers lifeinsurance agents, not brokers.
Hopefully that made sense.
Tony Steuer (06:43):
Yeah, and it helps and, I think, for people
watching and listening.
The other thing to keep in mind, too, is agents are contractual
agents of the insurance companyand not of the consumer, and I
think these are importantbecause we use these terms
(07:05):
interchangeably, and it's goodfor people to know who's who
interchangeably, and it's goodfor people to know who's who.
Barry Fisher (07:08):
But again, you know, but along those lines, as
you well know, independent lifeinsurance agents, annuity we're
selling annuities, lifeinsurance, long term care
insurance you know we're stillobligated to operate in the best
interests of our clients.
Okay, so, even though we have acontractual obligation with the
insurance company, you know wecan't unlike a property casualty
(07:30):
broker who can actually acceptpremiums on behalf of the from
the client and is a conduit tothe insurance company.
We don't do that, we can't dothat.
But in essence, though, westill have an obligation to do
what's in our client's bestinterest, and that's, I think
that's an important thing forconsumers to know.
Tony Steuer (07:51):
Yeah, definitely, and there are different rules
and obligations for insuranceagents.
Also, you know by line ofcoverage, but there's annuity
standards and you know.
So, if you are looking andcomparing agents, those are
questions that you can ask andexpectations that you can have
of your insurance agent.
And I think you said somethingthat's super important, that I
(08:14):
want to really emphasize,because this is a red flag for
consumers.
If you are working with anagent for life insurance or long
term care insurance ordisability insurance and they
ask you to submit the premium tothem, that is a no-no, you know
.
Don't do that.
Report them to the Departmentof Insurance and find an agent,
(08:35):
Because in the life and healthside of the business, premiums
are always submitted directly tothe insurance company.
Correct, correct and never makeyour check payable to the
insurance agent.
Barry Fisher (08:49):
No, no, absolutely not.
Tony Steuer (08:51):
Those are some good things, so let's jump into
long-term care insurance.
Why is long-term care insurancereally an important part of
financial planning?
Barry Fisher (09:02):
Well, that's a really good question, tony, and
I'm just going to put it outthere like this An unplanned for
long-term care event destroyspeople's wealth and it also
destroys other people's wealthand I'll explain that here in a
minute.
But Lincoln Financial did asurvey last year.
Lincoln Financial Group did asurvey of, I want to say, about
(09:23):
500 financial advisors and alsoabout 1,000 consumers, and what
they determined was 98% offinancial professionals reported
that clients who neededlong-term care typically
withdrew funds from theiraccounts at more than twice the
amount that they should bepulling them out of.
(09:45):
So the normal withdrawal rateif you're healthy out of
retirement funding yourretirement accounts is generally
5%.
The financial advisors reportedthat it jumped to over 11% for
people who didn't have a planfor long-term care policy and a
(10:05):
plan really Okay.
So it destroys wealth.
Number one it limits people'scare options.
That's number two.
And number three it negativelyimpacts the informal caregivers
who are then required to takecare of you.
So it hurts your spouses, yourkids and again, and ultimately
(10:27):
it destroys their wealth,because anything that you were
hoping to pass on a portion ofwhat people they were hoping to
pass on to their kids gets eatenup by these long-term care
expenses.
So it's a wealth destroyerbasically.
Tony Steuer (10:42):
That's you know.
That's so important because Idon't think we were talking
about that enough, especially asmore Americans are aging, that
the problems can become moremagnified.
So why do you think thefinancial planners aren't having
these conversations?
How can we encourage people tohave these conversations?
Barry Fisher (11:10):
Well, and that's a great question I think what's
happened is nobody gets trainedto sell insurance anymore.
You know, we're dinosaurs whenit comes right down to it.
You know you and I were trainedto focus on risk as opposed to
investments.
So, while these financial folkswho call themselves the younger
ones in particular, but thefolks who call themselves
financial advisors, that's amuch more transactional business
(11:34):
.
It's an important business,it's important to help people
achieve their retirementplanning goals and objectives,
but the fact is, if you ignorethe risk piece of that client's
plan, then it's not a plan.
Okay, so, and I just got off acall with an advisor that I work
(11:54):
with in the Chicago area and wewere talking to one of his
clients and the biggest problemthat financial advisors have
when you're dealing withinsurance products, you've got
to do field underwriting.
The last thing you want to haveyour client is have them apply
for an insurance policy and havethem get declined because it
(12:18):
goes into the big database inthe sky guy, and then their
future choices for insurancerisk products like long-term
care insurance or life insuranceis limited, becomes very, very
limited.
So this advisor had alreadydone some work with this client,
but he knew he needed some help.
So he called me in and Iuncovered a whole raft Because I
(12:41):
asked the questions Financialdon't have I have a.
Financial advisories don't havea generally have a comfort level
of asking people about theirhealth and their and and and.
What medications are you taking?
Do you have cancer?
Do you have diabetes?
What's your height and weight?
That was the first question Ialways ask.
Women hate that question.
You know what's your height andweight, but, but the fact of
(13:02):
the matter is.
Matter is you've got to get thatinformation before you even
have a clue of what insurancecompany you're going to go and
look to.
You've got to do the fieldunderwriting.
So bottom line is, even thoughthe insurance companies have
tried to make selling insurance,or at least the process of the
application process and all thatfor an insurance policy
(13:25):
transactional, the simple factof the matter is the run-up is
not transactional.
And then there is all kinds ofthings that have to happen
during the underwriting process,once you submit the application
that you have to track to makesure the client doesn't, the
case doesn't go off the rails.
So in essence it's again.
(13:46):
It's a different skill set.
You know you buy a stock, youknow you buy an ETF, it's a one
and done deal right, or you sellit, but with insurance, it's a
process, and people are justfinancial advisors today, are
just not trained in that process, and that's why I work with a
(14:07):
lot of financial advisors justto help them with that.
Tony Steuer (14:11):
Well, that's, yeah, I completely agree with you is
I think you know, there justisn't that emphasis on selling
insurance and people beingtrained in insurance, like when
you and I were coming up.
Like you were talking about isthe insurance companies would
train agents, give them a home,send them to class and help them
(14:34):
become professionals, and todaythat just doesn't happen.
So correct, you know, let's sayyou are a financial planner or
an insurance agent and you wantto learn more, you know, or
start having these conversations, what recommendations do you
give to the agents you work with?
Barry Fisher (14:52):
well, I mean, I think the recommendation is you
need to start.
You know insurance is just partof the plan.
So whether you're talking tosomebody about their succession
planning, or whether you knowfor their business or their
estate planning, for their taxesor their long-term care
planning, you need to lay outall the issues.
(15:12):
What do people want?
What are their goals andobjectives?
You know if you want to stickto long-term care.
You ask them where do you wantto receive care?
Who's going to provide the care?
You have all your legaldocuments in place.
You know your durable powers ofattorney.
Okay, if you looked and see whatis the cost for long-term care
where you want to receive it,the insurance piece is the last
(15:36):
part of the puzzle.
Once you get the plan in place,okay.
The question then is how areyou going to pay for it?
Okay, and now in today's world,you know what happens is most
people do a partial.
They figure okay, I'm getting Xnumber of dollars a month
coming in from my retirementmoney my 5 percent, my 4 or 5
(15:58):
percent withdrawal rate.
What do I need to buy aninsurance to supplement that for
the care I need where I want toget it?
And then it's, and then it's amatter of OK, which is the best
solution.
You know, 20 years ago webasically were one trick ponies.
We had traditional long termcare insurance.
Now we have traditional longterm care insurance, along with
(16:20):
the asset based solutions, thelife and annuity based solutions
.
So we have, you know, differentvehicles to to use today.
To use today, so, and that's,and that's the other thing you
know.
And then one of the otherthings that I'm learning,
because up until I I think youknow this, but I started working
(16:40):
with this group in in theMidwest.
Well before that I did, 99% ofmy business was in California.
Well, california is a countryon its own from from a product
perspective.
Well, now that I'm working withall these folks in the Midwest,
I'm on this very steep learningcurve of all the other stuff
that's available to peopleoutside of California.
(17:01):
So, yeah, I mean, it's a bigworld out there product and
understanding what to look forand then figuring out how you
could explain it to the clientin English so that they
understand it.
You know not insurance.
Try not to speak insurance.
Tony Steuer (17:17):
Yeah that's the thing and I think that's
something that's true across thefinancial services spectrum is
that we need to remember that weneed to talk to consumers with
words that they use every dayand not expect them to become
experts in insurance.
You know, when we look at themedical field and people who
watch and listen to this podcastyou've heard me say this
(17:37):
repeatedly our doctors don'tcome in, you know, when they're
helping us deal with a conditionand say, okay, well, you need
to learn everything about kneesurgery before you can proceed
with it.
They just they just help youfigure out, you know what you
need to know and answer yourquestions.
They don't say well, you know,have you studied up?
You know a knee surgery, it'snot a thing, right.
Barry Fisher (18:03):
Absolutely.
Tony Steuer (18:05):
So you know, a lot of financial advisors and
consumers have heard.
You know issues in long termcare insurance industry.
We've seen pricing issues.
We've seen huge rate increases.
How do you see this goingforward?
Do you see the long-term careinsurance industry stabilizing,
fixing these issues?
Barry Fisher (18:26):
Yeah, I do.
I mean I think let's go back tothe traditional long-term care
insurance policies that we wereselling.
You know basically post-HIPAA,because that's really the modern
.
You know basically post HIPAA,because that's really the modern
.
You know 1997 and beyond,that's the modern age of long
term care insurance.
When you know HIPAA, the HealthInsurance Portability and
Accountability Act establishedthe standardized benefit
(18:49):
triggers, you know benefitqualifiers and and standardized
a bunch of stuff in thesepolicies on a national basis.
So those products basically, Imean there have been, there were
pricing issues and I mean someof them.
Some of them wereself-inflicted wounds by the
insurance companies, others werewere unintended the
(19:10):
self-inflicted wound.
And again, I don't want to gettoo geeky here, but when you
price a policy, when you priceany kind of life or health
insurance, a long-term careinsurance is a traditional
long-term care insurance.
It's a health insurance productbut it's more like a life
insurance product because itstays in for you.
You're expecting this thing tobe in force for 20 or 30 years
(19:32):
potentially before you ever makea claim on it, as opposed to
the health insurance you buyevery year that can be repriced.
So it's like the insurancecompanies back in the late 90s
and early 2000s were doing amoonshot.
You know what's this going tolook like.
Where are we going to be 20, 25years from now when this client
(19:52):
goes on claim?
So the factors that went intothe pricing of these policies
were interest rates, right,because about 80% of a long-term
care insurance premium on atraditional product is reserved
to pay future claims.
So a 50 basis point differencein the long term rate of return
(20:17):
on those reserves can absolutelythrow off the whole pricing
model.
So what happened was we?
So, just on that particularthing alone, the insurance
companies were saying you know,we generally make five or 6% on
our reserves over time.
Well, unfortunately, we allknow we lived through about a 15
(20:41):
year period of it of a no,unusually low interest rates.
So instead of getting five or6%, they were getting four or 5%
.
So that was a primary, aprimary issue.
On the pricing of those olderpolicies they didn't get.
So that was an unintended thingthat happened to the insurance
(21:02):
companies.
They also figured the other bigthing was lapse rates.
Insurance companies assume thata certain percentage of people
are going to drop their policiesand when they drop their
policies, when they drop themeither because they die an
involuntary lapse right or avoluntary lapse.
(21:23):
They just decide they don'twant the policy anymore.
When that happens, thosereserves come back into the
reserve pool.
Well, they assumed a higherlapse ratio than they got, which
was also a big impact on theclaims, on the rating rate
(21:47):
stability, as it would be called.
And the third big thing wasthey didn't get the claim right.
They were dealing with dementiaclaims now, all of a sudden,
which were lasting longer thanthey anticipated.
So it was really a perfectstorm of bad stuff that happened
(22:07):
to the older traditionalpolicies.
Now, all that being said, as youwell know, each individual
state department of insuranceregulates rate increases.
Well, in some of these states,the states didn't want to allow
(22:27):
for rate increases moreincrementally, so they backed up
.
So they backed up.
You know the insurancecompanies, especially in a place
like California, I mean, it was, it was a nightmare, because
they just wouldn't approve rateincreases until, all of a sudden
, they realized these insurancecompanies were potentially going
to go broke if they didn't Kindof similar to what's happening
(22:49):
with homeowners insurance inCalifornia right now, and that's
a whole other topic too.
So the departments of insurancedragged their heels.
So ultimately, now we've seenall these big rate increases and
people can adjust thesepolicies.
What we're finding is that as weget these rate increases in,
(23:13):
you get on the phone with theclient and you say, okay, you
bought this with five percentcompound inflation, you probably
have more than enough benefits.
Let's drop the inflation rideroff or let's drop it down to
three percent.
So again, the client should notpanic when they get the rate
increase letter.
They should either call theiragent you know if they still if
(23:34):
the guy's still alive or isstill in the business or work
with the insurance companies toadjust the benefits to keep that
policy affordable.
In fact I've got for one Iwon't mention the company, but
I've probably got 30 of theseall that are sitting on my desk
that I know over the next yearthey're going to be getting
their rate increase letter fromthe insurance company and
(23:56):
because most of the agents areretired or passed away they used
to write the business throughmy agency I'm going to be
getting on the phone with allthese people and communicating
with them.
I don't want them to drop theirpolicies.
It's a very valuable piece ofprotection that they have.
We just need to figure out howto make it affordable for them,
(24:21):
and that's what you have to do.
As far as going forward and I'mprobably going on too long for
you here but the newer policiesthe asset-based policies, the
combo policies, the life andannuity policies with long-term
care benefits those have moreguarantees in them.
The rate structures areguaranteed.
You're paying more, of course,because you're now on a life
combo product.
You're paying to ensure tworisks You're ensuring life and
(24:43):
long-term care, so the going inpremium is higher, but again
you're going to have more rate.
There's going to be ratestability because they've built
the guarantees into thosepolicies.
So you know, again, theindustry is adapting.
I think a lot of the business isshifting to the combo products
(25:07):
and so they're very attractive,especially for people that can
just reposition someunderperforming assets or
reposition an annuity.
Okay that that you know they'vegot a, an annuity.
That's an old style deferredannuity.
It's out of the surrendercharge period.
They reposition it into a, along-term care annuity that
(25:30):
provides long-term care benefits, and then they're leveraging it
up for long-term care and whenthey go on claim the money that
comes out of that policy will betax-free as opposed to taxable.
So there's all kinds of goodreasons to look at, especially
if people have been purchasingannuities to repositioning an
(25:50):
older annuity to what's called aPension Protection Act approved
annuity, which allows for along-term care benefit within it
.
Tony Steuer (26:02):
Well, you covered so many things there and I think
at the end, what you'rementioning is a 1035 tax-free
exchange of an old contract, andyou can also use old life
insurance policies.
So sometimes if you have thesewhole life policies that have a
really high cash value thatyou're not intending to use,
(26:24):
those are a great source to funda long-term care insurance
policy.
A couple other things you knowin terms of pricing.
I want to add one of the thingsin my mind that I think was a
huge mistake on the part of theinsurance companies was lifetime
benefits instead of a definedbenefit pool.
Defined benefit pool is, youknow, when you look at other
(26:45):
types of insurance, the companyis saying we're going to insure
you for this amount and this isa maximum amount, and instead
they said, well, we'll just payyou for a lifetime, but we have
no idea what that's going toconsist of.
We're just going to guess.
You know.
Granted, actuaries are notguessing.
You know, actuaries are ascience, but at the end of the
(27:11):
day, it really is a guessbecause they have no idea what
was going to happen.
And when we look at other formsof coverage, you know some of
them have two, 300 years ofexperience that the insurance
companies can go back and lookat, so they engaged in
risk-taking behavior themselves.
Now that doesn't help peoplegoing forward, but it's
important to understand that.
You know the insurancecompanies, as you pointed out,
(27:32):
are learning from their mistakesand coming up with different
products that will hopefullyperform better.
Although you know my concernwith the combo products.
One, as you pointed out, isthat clients are paying for a
life insurance benefit that theymay or may not need, but with
the underperformance of so manylife insurance policies, you've
(27:53):
taken two products that have hadpricing issues and combine them
into one product, which meansthat if you do these asset-based
products is that you do need tokeep an eye on them and think
about the costs that you'repaying.
So sorry, just to give youranswer.
Barry Fisher (28:11):
Yeah, most of those, most of the life
insurance based combo productsare guaranteed.
Now I mean they're eitherguaranteed universal life Okay,
indexed or or fixed, okay, orit's it's a whole on a whole
life chassis.
So you know, the risk on thelife insurance piece is not
(28:32):
again the life insurance, youknow again, and I again not to
get doing the weeds, but I meanthe life insurance benefit
becomes minimal on those.
It's basically used to identify, you know, kind of create that
initial pool of money, thatinitial benefit that's paid out,
and then the client pays for anadditional continuation of
benefit rider to take it past atwo year type benefit.
(28:52):
So yes, which are againguaranteed rates, so they're
doing a better job on it, butagain they're representing, you
know, current reality in pricing, you know, and not reality from
1995 or 1996.
But you're right, lifetimebenefits with 5% compound
inflation on riders were prettydisastrous, yeah, and who could
(29:18):
have seen that coming?
Tony Steuer (29:19):
Well, it wasn't priced right, you know, it just
wasn't priced right.
Barry Fisher (29:21):
It wasn't priced right.
Tony Steuer (29:26):
It just wasn't priced right, yeah.
Well, that's the benefit withany type of financial services
to start off conservativelyrather than aggressively.
And that's what happened thecompanies got out of their skis.
We can talk about disabilityinsurance in the 80s that's
another great example but weshould probably move on from
this conversation.
But I do want to emphasize onething that you were talking
(29:46):
about is that there aredifferent contracts, and so it's
important to work with somebodywho understands the different
alternatives and can explainthem.
You know.
So, if you're a planner andyou're working with an insurance
agent, did you understand whatthe insurance agent is
presenting to your client?
And if you're a consumer, thesame thing ask questions, be
(30:09):
curious, make sure that thepolicy is going to do what you
expect it to do.
Right, Absolutely, you know.
There's no guarantees, ofcourse, but you can definitely
ask questions.
So, Barry, you know, before weget into the faster round of
questions, you know of questionsyou're also working on business
valuations.
So just real quick, and I thinkthis is becoming pertinent, as
(30:34):
baby boomers are starting tosell their businesses and
everything is age why shouldpeople and businesses consider
getting a business valuation?
Barry Fisher (30:43):
Well, just by way of you know, again, historically
my first love in the insurancebusiness was working with small
business owners.
You know closely owners ofclosely held businesses I won't
say small but closely heldbusinesses, Because again, of my
entrepreneurial spirit, I guessand one of the big aspects of
(31:05):
doing that is helping peoplewith their succession planning.
You know you got a couple ofpartners, or you have somebody
you want to pass your businesson to your kid OK, or you want
to sell your business.
But you know all those things.
Estate planning, you know thebusiness is a big piece of most
entrepreneurs' asset base.
(31:27):
Now 72% of business owners saythey plan to sell their business
and use that to fund theirretirement, but only 2% of
business owners know what theirbusiness is worth.
So when I restarted personalproduction, I was really
focusing on the business isworth.
So when I got, when I started,when I restarted personal
production, I was reallyfocusing on the business owner
(31:49):
market and I started talking topeople and you'd say to, you'd
say to a business owner what'syour?
Well, okay, you need to do thesuccession planning.
You need to do your buy sellagreement so you don't end up
with with in business with yourpartner's wife or spouse, okay,
that you have money there to buythem out of the value of the
business.
We need a buy-sell agreement.
(32:10):
Okay, what do you think yourbusiness is worth?
And people would look at youlike I have absolutely no idea.
So along that path, I discoveredan online business valuation
service called BizEquity andthey market specifically to
financial advisors and insuranceagents who are in this market
space and again, I won't go intoall the details, but it's all
(32:31):
online.
It's driven off of the taxreturns.
It's a really cool program.
It's not a certified valuation,but it's a credible valuation.
The company's run by businessvaluators.
It's a really cool tool.
And so what I do is I talk to aclient and I'll say listen, if
you don't have an idea what yourbusiness is worth, before we
(32:53):
even start talking about thesuccession planning stuff or the
key person stuff, we need to doa business valuation for you.
We need to figure out what yourbusiness is worth and with
three years of tax returns andsome other minimal information
from the client, I can do abusiness valuation within a
couple of weeks.
(33:13):
Normally, business valuation is$10,000, $15,000, $20,000 or
more.
It takes a long time, you know,and again and it's very
expensive, and so I've beenusing this as a way to help
business owners.
It's turned out that, asidefrom using it for the succession
planning piece, I get a lot ofcalls now from business owners
(33:35):
who say I'm ready to sell mybusiness, I just need a business
valuation.
So I basically charge a verynominal fee to do the business
valuation so I can get the rightnumbers.
Very nominal fee to do thebusiness valuation so I can get
the right numbers, and it's beena really fulfilling.
It's been.
I've learned so much about myown business by looking at other
people's tax returns andunderstanding how it all comes
(33:57):
together in somebody's taxreturn and then seeing how the
results on the platform come outfor the client, and it's been
very rewarding.
So again, there's all kinds ofreasons.
If a business owner doesn't dobusiness valuation, they're just
flying blind.
The other neat thing that thisservice does is it also provides
(34:18):
key performance indicators tothe client.
So in other words, this is alltied into big data.
That's how this valuation isgenerated and it's all tied to
the business's North Americanindustrial code number.
So after we get the input done,they can actually see how they
stack up against the competitionon a local and national level
(34:41):
on their key performanceindicators debt to equity,
inventory, turnover, all thosereally valuable management tools
that most closely heldbusinesses are clueless about.
So it's a really great service.
I really enjoy doing it.
It's a lot of fun.
That's awesome.
Tony Steuer (34:59):
And I think business valuations do tie into
long-term care planning that allof this is a continuum, you
know.
So what money myth are youtrying to break?
Barry Fisher (35:12):
The money myth.
This is a great one and I haveto say I didn't make it up.
A colleague of mine wrote thisup on LinkedIn and I took it to
the next level, probably.
But he talks about you knowevery, you know financial
advisors and this you know.
This is true whether it'slong-term care planning or
estate planning.
You know this goes back a longway.
(35:34):
It's like why do wealthy peoplebuy life insurance to pay their
estate taxes when all they haveto do is write a check or
liquidate a building?
And the answer is it's becauseit's more tax efficient.
You know it's more so.
(35:54):
It's more.
It just makes more sense.
And here's so.
He talked about the myth ofself-funding, and you know
self-funding is a myth becauseit, or self-insurance is a myth
because, ultimately, insuranceinvolves the pooling of risk,
and when you're taking on therisk without insurance, there is
no pooling with anybody else,okay.
So again, insurance implies arisk.
(36:17):
Now, you may self-fund, butdon't call it self-insurance,
okay.
The other big myth is thatpeople think well, again, I have
enough money to pay for thisout of my investments and all
that kind of stuff.
But most of the time, theydon't take into account what I
refer to as shrinkage.
They have this event, whetherit's death or whether it's
(36:40):
long-term care need they don'ttake into account?
What if the stock market's down?
What if your investments aredown?
Bad timing what about the taximplications of liquidating
assets?
Capital gains Everybody'stalking about capital gains
again, right?
Because the 2017 tax thing iscoming up in next year again.
So there's shrinkage.
There's tax impacts ofliquidation.
(37:01):
So you know, there's shrinkage.
There's tax impacts ofliquidation, so they don't.
The other big thing is that ina long term care planning
scenario, you generally have aspouse, two spouses, right, one
spouse goes down.
You need to start liquidatingassets or taking retirement
(37:21):
income to pay for the the sixspouses care.
What does the well spouse liveon?
So, again, when you starttaking apart the machine that's
designed to carry you throughretirement, the machine will
break down.
So some amount of long-termcare insurance or whether it's
(37:44):
life, whatever it is havinginsurance, sharing that risk
with a whole big pool of otherpeople with a tax-favored
vehicle, life insurance,long-term care insurance those
are all tax-free benefits andthat's a huge, huge benefit to
these policies and that's a hugehuge benefit to these policies.
Tony Steuer (38:06):
Yeah, and I think you point out something that's
especially important for peopleis the timing.
You don't know when you'regoing to have these events and
anything could be happening.
You know, if it was a greatrecession and you had to sell
(38:28):
your assets, you'd be sellingthem at a much reduced value or
market's down, and you'reheavily into stocks.
So, barry, to start to closeout, is what is your go-to
resource on money?
What is your number oneresource?
Is it a podcast?
Is it a website?
Is it a newsletter?
What's the one thing you'drecommend to people?
Barry Fisher (38:41):
Wow, that's a great question Again, know again
.
I mean, as you know, with my,with my radio show, I every week
I'm doing something aboutprotection and I do a ton of
research every week on variousdifferent topics.
I guess you know again, I findone of the best resources.
I think Investopedia does apretty good job on a lot of on a
(39:03):
lot of stuff does a pretty goodjob on a lot of stuff.
I think you know I definitelystay away from Wikipedia, yeah,
but again, I just read a variety.
I, you know I will say that oneof the best resources that I
use for multiple topics is and Idon't want to get it's a
(39:24):
website called Real Clear topics.
Is it's, and I and I don't wantto get it's it's a website
called real clear, real clearpolitics, real clear money, real
clear investing, real cleareducation.
They've got a.
They do real clearinvestigation.
I mean it's, it's so real it's.
If you'll go to real clearpoliticscom is the name, is the
actual website, but it's notpolitical, it it's not all
political and they always giveyou both sides of an issue,
(39:49):
political or otherwise.
So I really like that.
And again, when I do a search, alot of times on one of the
topics, investopedia comes up,especially for consumers.
It's understandable, it's clear, it's in bullet points.
I love bullet points.
You know people think in bulletpoints.
So, yeah, that's probably my goto stuff.
(40:09):
When I, when I think andobviously I look at the Wall
Street Journal and I, you knowBarron's and and all that kind
of stuff, I find one of thethings that I, you know, I find
some of the stuff.
I won't mention any specificmagazines, but a lot of
magazines will have, you know,stuff written in them that is
basically the writer is payingfor that space.
(40:32):
You know, in one way or theother it's a sales pitch for
that.
They're market makers.
Basically they're market makingarticles and so they're not
necessarily research, it's justone sided.
So that's where I generally go.
Tony Steuer (40:48):
Well, I think you said something super important
at the end is that people, whenyou're looking at sources of
information, even outside thefinancial spectrum, is think
about is this biased information, as you point out?
Is it presenting an argument onboth sides?
(41:08):
Who's paying for it?
That's an important factor.
So if you're watching TikTokand you see that video on Be
your Own Banker, but at the sametime that person's trying to
sell you whole life insurance,that may not be your best source
of information.
Barry Fisher (41:25):
Well, you know, again, I mean, yeah, I, every
day I have more disdain forsocial media of all of all types
.
You know, I mean, probably oneof the best social media sites
that you and I are both use itis LinkedIn, right, but half the
stuff, a lot of high percentageof this stuff, is advertiser
(41:46):
paid on there.
So, again, if you want to doyour research and again, if you
have a good financial advisor orinsurance agent, that's a great
source too, because especiallysomebody who's been in the
business for a while, who has adeep understanding of their
areas of specialization but alsohas a deep understanding of
what they don't know, and canget you to the right place,
(42:07):
because I think that's a reallyimportant thing to consider.
Tony Steuer (42:11):
Yeah, I love that.
You know, I think the smartestpeople are the ones who are the
ones who can say you know, thisis not something I know.
Right, let me find out for you.
That's the type of insuranceagent or financial advisor
you're looking for.
Out for you, that's the type ofinsurance agent or financial
advisor you're looking for.
Somebody will reach a point andsay you know what, I'm going to
have to check on this and getback to you because that's not
something I know.
(42:31):
Beware of the person who has ananswer to every single question
right off the bat.
So that's a great tip.
So, barry, to close out, whatis your number one tip on
changing the way we think aboutmoney?
Barry Fisher (42:45):
You know I don't.
I think my tip for consumerswould be that Listen, you know
at some level.
Again, we're going back to thesame topic.
What I find about working withwith consumers is they read a
lot of stuff online and whetherthey understand it or they don't
(43:06):
understand it.
Again, the number one tip is tofind somebody you trust and you
can work with I mean reallybecause you know, ultimately
somebody like me, somebody who'sa financial advisor, you know,
we're just here to help you.
We're your Sherpa, basicallywe're there.
We're here to assist you tosort through the clutter,
(43:28):
because there is a lot ofclutter out there.
So and and so, and don't let,don't, don't get paralysis
through analysis.
If you know, if you're dealingwith somebody you trust and
seems to know what they'retalking about, the insurance
companies that they arerepresenting are top rated
companies.
(43:48):
You know a rated companies arebetter.
Um, it here here's.
If something sounds too good tobe true, it probably is okay.
I mean, again there's.
I think we could do a wholeshow on this.
But but there is this wholeseries of life insurance
products with no cost benefits.
(44:10):
They call them no cost benefitsCritical illness, chronic
illness, terminal illness.
There is no such thing as nocost.
You either pay the cost upfront or you're going to pay it
in the back.
So if it says no cost, that'ssomething to be concerned about.
(44:30):
Anything good has a cost.
Tony Steuer (44:34):
Yeah, and insurance companies are not nonprofits.
Barry Fisher (44:37):
They are, Nor should they be.
They got to pay.
They got to pay.
They got to pay their claimsright.
Tony Steuer (44:42):
Yeah, and that gets back.
You know I don't want to reopenthe whole conversation, but I
think that gets back to what wewere talking about with the rate
increases and everything elseis at the end of the day,
insurance companies have to beable to pay claims, as you just
point out, and so when insurancecompanies you know they are
regulated they do have to havetheir premium increases approved
(45:03):
by various state insurancedepartments, but they have to
make a profit at the end of theday.
If they're not able to make aprofit, they can't pay their
claims and they can't stay inbusiness.
Um so, Barry, where can peoplelearn more about you?
Where can they tune into, uh,protecting what matters?
Barry Fisher (45:19):
Well, okay.
So, uh, protecting what mattersas a weekly 90 minute radio
show on K show on KPRL in PasoRobles, california.
It's live radio but you canlisten in at 1230 on Tuesday
online at kprlcom.
But I also take the show at theend of the show and we cut out
the commercials and I post it onmy website so you can see all
(45:41):
my past shows at wwwpwmradiocomand then you can see what else I
do on my website.
And whether it's long-term careinsurance or business valuation
or life insurance, I'm allabout protecting what matters
(46:03):
and I'm, you know, feel very,you know, blessed that I get to
keep doing this for as long asI'm, as long as I I want to, and
it can help people, so, okay.
Tony Steuer (46:16):
That's awesome and for everybody watching and
listening.
As always, there will be linksto Barry's website, to the radio
show and everything else, soyou can get in touch with Barry,
you can tune into the radioshow and everything else.
So you can get in touch withBarry, you can tune into the
radio show and find him.
Barry Fisher (46:32):
So, barry, thanks very much for coming on the Get
Ready Money podcast.
Thank you for having me, tony.
It's a pleasure and I have toget you back on protecting what
matters.
I should have looked up thedate.
You were on about a month and ahalf ago or two months ago, I
think it was a great show.
So you can hear Tony and Ibanter back and forth about
financial literacy.
It was great.
Tony Steuer (46:49):
Yeah, it's always a lot of fun Barry hanging out.
We did a lot of work togetherbut we won't open up that
because I don't think that'svery interesting for me watching
this thing.
But thank you everyone, asalways, for tuning in to this
episode of the Get Ready Moneypodcast.
If you learned something todayto change the way you think
about money, please be sure tosubscribe and to tell a friend.
(47:11):
Until next time, let's changethe way we think about money.
You.
Are you looking to get ready, be prepared and
transform your financial future?
Then you've come to the rightplace.
This is the Get Ready MoneyPodcast with Tony Stewart, where
Tony has insightfulconversations with financial
experts who are changing the waywe think about money.
Catch up on the latestfinancial trends and hear
(00:27):
practical advice from Tony andhis expert guests so you can
build healthy habits that work,Be empowered with tips for
implementing small changes thatcan have a big impact on your
financial future.
So sit back and get ready tohear from today's guest.
So sit back and get ready tohear from today's guest.
Tony Steuer (00:49):
Welcome to the Get Ready Money podcast changing the
way we think about money.
I'm pleased to be joined todayby Barry Fisher.
Barry is the president and CEOof Blaze and Bear Insurance
Services and host of theProtecting what Matters radio
show.
In this episode, we'll bediscussing Barry's insights on
how we change the way we thinkabout money and protecting what
(01:10):
matters.
Barry, welcome to the Get ReadyMoney podcast.
Thanks for joining us today.
Barry Fisher (01:14):
Tony, thanks for inviting me.
Tony Steuer (01:16):
Yeah, I'm excited.
I mean, we've known each otherfor a long time, but you know,
let's not go down that road.
Barry Fisher (01:26):
Yeah for our watchers and listeners.
Tony Steuer (01:27):
You know, but there's nothing bad.
You know, barry.
You know let's get started.
You know, tell me, you know,maybe share with the audience a
little bit about yourself.
What is your origin story?
Barry Fisher (01:36):
Well.
So, interestingly enough, lastweek I started my 49th year in
the life and health insurancebusiness and I have no plans to
retire.
I enjoy what I do.
Probably one of the bestdecisions I made in the long run
was getting involved in thisaspect of it.
Basically because I'm a serialentrepreneur, you know, and I'm
(01:58):
being an independent lifeinsurance agent, a long-term
care insurance guy.
I'm my own boss and I've beendoing it like this for almost 50
years now.
So it's been great.
I grew up in Southern California, but over the years I've lived
in numerous places.
In high school I got moved toMassachusetts.
(02:19):
I lived outside of Boston for afew years.
I came back to California,graduated from UCLA, got
accepted to law school andbusiness school and just decided
again.
I enjoyed working and being myown boss and I was done with
studying.
I'm more of a doer than astudent, really.
(02:42):
And then you know you've been inthe life insurance industry,
health insurance industry, foryears as well.
You know it's not an easy thingto do, and so I had good years
and bad years, and I guess myclaim to fame is that about 1990
, I kind of fell into thewholesale side of the long-term
(03:03):
care insurance industry and bywholesaling.
That meant I was anintermediary between the
insurance companies and brokersinsurance agents and it was just
the timing was right.
California was just institutingits eight-hour requirement to
be able to sell long-term careinsurance.
I was able to get a courseapproved.
(03:23):
I was one of the first I wasn'tthe first, but I was one of the
first to get the eight hour CEcourse approved for
certification to sell long-termcare insurance in California and
I used it as a recruiting tool.
It was before.
It was before you know onlinestuff.
It was before all the you knowthe you know online stuff.
(03:46):
That was before all the youknow the, the, the, whatever
correspondence courses even.
And it was.
It was just the timing wasright.
You know I won't go into allthe details, but I've been on
boards of national organizationsand and I'm an educator I view
myself more as an educator thanI do an insurance agent, even
though the insurance is part ofthe education.
So I was a wholesaler.
(04:06):
I sold the agency.
I had a national operation.
We sold that in 2014, 2013 and2014.
I sold the agencies, went off tobe a consultant.
Covid killed off the business,the consulting business, and
then I was sitting around myranch here in the beautiful Paso
Robles area of California oneday and I just said, I got to
(04:29):
find something to do and Idecided to go back into personal
production, and that hasmorphed into some new courses as
well.
But I'm really enjoying workingwith consumers.
But I also primarily work withother financial advisors and
property casualty agents whojust don't want to sell life or
long-term care insurance, and soit's been a fun.
(04:50):
Started as a retirement gig,now it's become again another
business that I get to build.
So that's my origin story.
Tony Steuer (04:59):
Well, that's awesome.
And where you and I met was weboth served on the California
Department of InsuranceCurriculum Board, where we
helped create the exam outlinesand continuing education
requirements for long-term careinsurance, as well as other
lines of coverage.
Yep, absolutely, it was funyeah and we were able to really
(05:22):
make a difference.
Yeah, I just want to back upfor one thing because I know
this comes up a lot for peopleis could you define the
difference between agent andbroker?
Barry Fisher (05:32):
Yeah, so it's funny.
I had this conversation withsomebody the other day.
So there really is.
You know, unless things havechanged since we were on the
curriculum board, there reallyis no such thing as a life or
health insurance broker, abroker, the relationship of a
broker, those are propertycasualty type guys and they
(05:54):
really represent their clientsdirectly and that's the term of
art within the insurance code.
Life insurance guys and healthinsurance folks are agents.
So theoretically we arecontractually obligated to the
insurance company.
But again, we're alsoindependent agents.
So we have the most of us areat this point.
(06:16):
You know, back when I started49 years ago, most of us were
captive agents.
We worked for Metropolitan Life, for New York Life, and that
was our primary company.
But what's happened is most ofus who are still doing life
insurance and long-term careinsurance are independents and
we have multiple relationships,but we're still insurance agents
(06:37):
.
We're not brokers lifeinsurance agents, not brokers.
Hopefully that made sense.
Tony Steuer (06:43):
Yeah, and it helps and, I think, for people
watching and listening.
The other thing to keep in mind, too, is agents are contractual
agents of the insurance companyand not of the consumer, and I
think these are importantbecause we use these terms
(07:05):
interchangeably, and it's goodfor people to know who's who
interchangeably, and it's goodfor people to know who's who.
Barry Fisher (07:08):
But again, you know, but along those lines, as
you well know, independent lifeinsurance agents, annuity we're
selling annuities, lifeinsurance, long term care
insurance you know we're stillobligated to operate in the best
interests of our clients.
Okay, so, even though we have acontractual obligation with the
insurance company, you know wecan't unlike a property casualty
(07:30):
broker who can actually acceptpremiums on behalf of the from
the client and is a conduit tothe insurance company.
We don't do that, we can't dothat.
But in essence, though, westill have an obligation to do
what's in our client's bestinterest, and that's, I think
that's an important thing forconsumers to know.
Tony Steuer (07:51):
Yeah, definitely, and there are different rules
and obligations for insuranceagents.
Also, you know by line ofcoverage, but there's annuity
standards and you know.
So, if you are looking andcomparing agents, those are
questions that you can ask andexpectations that you can have
of your insurance agent.
And I think you said somethingthat's super important, that I
(08:14):
want to really emphasize,because this is a red flag for
consumers.
If you are working with anagent for life insurance or long
term care insurance ordisability insurance and they
ask you to submit the premium tothem, that is a no-no, you know
.
Don't do that.
Report them to the Departmentof Insurance and find an agent,
(08:35):
Because in the life and healthside of the business, premiums
are always submitted directly tothe insurance company.
Correct, correct and never makeyour check payable to the
insurance agent.
Barry Fisher (08:49):
No, no, absolutely not.
Tony Steuer (08:51):
Those are some good things, so let's jump into
long-term care insurance.
Why is long-term care insurancereally an important part of
financial planning?
Barry Fisher (09:02):
Well, that's a really good question, tony, and
I'm just going to put it outthere like this An unplanned for
long-term care event destroyspeople's wealth and it also
destroys other people's wealthand I'll explain that here in a
minute.
But Lincoln Financial did asurvey last year.
Lincoln Financial Group did asurvey of, I want to say, about
(09:23):
500 financial advisors and alsoabout 1,000 consumers, and what
they determined was 98% offinancial professionals reported
that clients who neededlong-term care typically
withdrew funds from theiraccounts at more than twice the
amount that they should bepulling them out of.
(09:45):
So the normal withdrawal rateif you're healthy out of
retirement funding yourretirement accounts is generally
5%.
The financial advisors reportedthat it jumped to over 11% for
people who didn't have a planfor long-term care policy and a
(10:05):
plan really Okay.
So it destroys wealth.
Number one it limits people'scare options.
That's number two.
And number three it negativelyimpacts the informal caregivers
who are then required to takecare of you.
So it hurts your spouses, yourkids and again, and ultimately
(10:27):
it destroys their wealth,because anything that you were
hoping to pass on a portion ofwhat people they were hoping to
pass on to their kids gets eatenup by these long-term care
expenses.
So it's a wealth destroyerbasically.
Tony Steuer (10:42):
That's you know.
That's so important because Idon't think we were talking
about that enough, especially asmore Americans are aging, that
the problems can become moremagnified.
So why do you think thefinancial planners aren't having
these conversations?
How can we encourage people tohave these conversations?
Barry Fisher (11:10):
Well, and that's a great question I think what's
happened is nobody gets trainedto sell insurance anymore.
You know, we're dinosaurs whenit comes right down to it.
You know you and I were trainedto focus on risk as opposed to
investments.
So, while these financial folkswho call themselves the younger
ones in particular, but thefolks who call themselves
financial advisors, that's amuch more transactional business
(11:34):
.
It's an important business,it's important to help people
achieve their retirementplanning goals and objectives,
but the fact is, if you ignorethe risk piece of that client's
plan, then it's not a plan.
Okay, so, and I just got off acall with an advisor that I work
(11:54):
with in the Chicago area and wewere talking to one of his
clients and the biggest problemthat financial advisors have
when you're dealing withinsurance products, you've got
to do field underwriting.
The last thing you want to haveyour client is have them apply
for an insurance policy and havethem get declined because it
(12:18):
goes into the big database inthe sky guy, and then their
future choices for insurancerisk products like long-term
care insurance or life insuranceis limited, becomes very, very
limited.
So this advisor had alreadydone some work with this client,
but he knew he needed some help.
So he called me in and Iuncovered a whole raft Because I
(12:41):
asked the questions Financialdon't have I have a.
Financial advisories don't havea generally have a comfort level
of asking people about theirhealth and their and and and.
What medications are you taking?
Do you have cancer?
Do you have diabetes?
What's your height and weight?
That was the first question Ialways ask.
Women hate that question.
You know what's your height andweight, but, but the fact of
(13:02):
the matter is.
Matter is you've got to get thatinformation before you even
have a clue of what insurancecompany you're going to go and
look to.
You've got to do the fieldunderwriting.
So bottom line is, even thoughthe insurance companies have
tried to make selling insurance,or at least the process of the
application process and all thatfor an insurance policy
(13:25):
transactional, the simple factof the matter is the run-up is
not transactional.
And then there is all kinds ofthings that have to happen
during the underwriting process,once you submit the application
that you have to track to makesure the client doesn't, the
case doesn't go off the rails.
So in essence it's again.
(13:46):
It's a different skill set.
You know you buy a stock, youknow you buy an ETF, it's a one
and done deal right, or you sellit, but with insurance, it's a
process, and people are justfinancial advisors today, are
just not trained in that process, and that's why I work with a
(14:07):
lot of financial advisors justto help them with that.
Tony Steuer (14:11):
Well, that's, yeah, I completely agree with you is
I think you know, there justisn't that emphasis on selling
insurance and people beingtrained in insurance, like when
you and I were coming up.
Like you were talking about isthe insurance companies would
train agents, give them a home,send them to class and help them
(14:34):
become professionals, and todaythat just doesn't happen.
So correct, you know, let's sayyou are a financial planner or
an insurance agent and you wantto learn more, you know, or
start having these conversations, what recommendations do you
give to the agents you work with?
Barry Fisher (14:52):
well, I mean, I think the recommendation is you
need to start.
You know insurance is just partof the plan.
So whether you're talking tosomebody about their succession
planning, or whether you knowfor their business or their
estate planning, for their taxesor their long-term care
planning, you need to lay outall the issues.
(15:12):
What do people want?
What are their goals andobjectives?
You know if you want to stickto long-term care.
You ask them where do you wantto receive care?
Who's going to provide the care?
You have all your legaldocuments in place.
You know your durable powers ofattorney.
Okay, if you looked and see whatis the cost for long-term care
where you want to receive it,the insurance piece is the last
(15:36):
part of the puzzle.
Once you get the plan in place,okay.
The question then is how areyou going to pay for it?
Okay, and now in today's world,you know what happens is most
people do a partial.
They figure okay, I'm getting Xnumber of dollars a month
coming in from my retirementmoney my 5 percent, my 4 or 5
(15:58):
percent withdrawal rate.
What do I need to buy aninsurance to supplement that for
the care I need where I want toget it?
And then it's, and then it's amatter of OK, which is the best
solution.
You know, 20 years ago webasically were one trick ponies.
We had traditional long termcare insurance.
Now we have traditional longterm care insurance, along with
(16:20):
the asset based solutions, thelife and annuity based solutions
.
So we have, you know, differentvehicles to to use today.
To use today, so, and that's,and that's the other thing you
know.
And then one of the otherthings that I'm learning,
because up until I I think youknow this, but I started working
(16:40):
with this group in in theMidwest.
Well before that I did, 99% ofmy business was in California.
Well, california is a countryon its own from from a product
perspective.
Well, now that I'm working withall these folks in the Midwest,
I'm on this very steep learningcurve of all the other stuff
that's available to peopleoutside of California.
(17:01):
So, yeah, I mean, it's a bigworld out there product and
understanding what to look forand then figuring out how you
could explain it to the clientin English so that they
understand it.
You know not insurance.
Try not to speak insurance.
Tony Steuer (17:17):
Yeah that's the thing and I think that's
something that's true across thefinancial services spectrum is
that we need to remember that weneed to talk to consumers with
words that they use every dayand not expect them to become
experts in insurance.
You know, when we look at themedical field and people who
watch and listen to this podcastyou've heard me say this
(17:37):
repeatedly our doctors don'tcome in, you know, when they're
helping us deal with a conditionand say, okay, well, you need
to learn everything about kneesurgery before you can proceed
with it.
They just they just help youfigure out, you know what you
need to know and answer yourquestions.
They don't say well, you know,have you studied up?
You know a knee surgery, it'snot a thing, right.
Barry Fisher (18:03):
Absolutely.
Tony Steuer (18:05):
So you know, a lot of financial advisors and
consumers have heard.
You know issues in long termcare insurance industry.
We've seen pricing issues.
We've seen huge rate increases.
How do you see this goingforward?
Do you see the long-term careinsurance industry stabilizing,
fixing these issues?
Barry Fisher (18:26):
Yeah, I do.
I mean I think let's go back tothe traditional long-term care
insurance policies that we wereselling.
You know basically post-HIPAA,because that's really the modern
.
You know basically post HIPAA,because that's really the modern
.
You know 1997 and beyond,that's the modern age of long
term care insurance.
When you know HIPAA, the HealthInsurance Portability and
Accountability Act establishedthe standardized benefit
(18:49):
triggers, you know benefitqualifiers and and standardized
a bunch of stuff in thesepolicies on a national basis.
So those products basically, Imean there have been, there were
pricing issues and I mean someof them.
Some of them wereself-inflicted wounds by the
insurance companies, others werewere unintended the
(19:10):
self-inflicted wound.
And again, I don't want to gettoo geeky here, but when you
price a policy, when you priceany kind of life or health
insurance, a long-term careinsurance is a traditional
long-term care insurance.
It's a health insurance productbut it's more like a life
insurance product because itstays in for you.
You're expecting this thing tobe in force for 20 or 30 years
(19:32):
potentially before you ever makea claim on it, as opposed to
the health insurance you buyevery year that can be repriced.
So it's like the insurancecompanies back in the late 90s
and early 2000s were doing amoonshot.
You know what's this going tolook like.
Where are we going to be 20, 25years from now when this client
(19:52):
goes on claim?
So the factors that went intothe pricing of these policies
were interest rates, right,because about 80% of a long-term
care insurance premium on atraditional product is reserved
to pay future claims.
So a 50 basis point differencein the long term rate of return
(20:17):
on those reserves can absolutelythrow off the whole pricing
model.
So what happened was we?
So, just on that particularthing alone, the insurance
companies were saying you know,we generally make five or 6% on
our reserves over time.
Well, unfortunately, we allknow we lived through about a 15
(20:41):
year period of it of a no,unusually low interest rates.
So instead of getting five or6%, they were getting four or 5%
.
So that was a primary, aprimary issue.
On the pricing of those olderpolicies they didn't get.
So that was an unintended thingthat happened to the insurance
(21:02):
companies.
They also figured the other bigthing was lapse rates.
Insurance companies assume thata certain percentage of people
are going to drop their policiesand when they drop their
policies, when they drop themeither because they die an
involuntary lapse right or avoluntary lapse.
(21:23):
They just decide they don'twant the policy anymore.
When that happens, thosereserves come back into the
reserve pool.
Well, they assumed a higherlapse ratio than they got, which
was also a big impact on theclaims, on the rating rate
(21:47):
stability, as it would be called.
And the third big thing wasthey didn't get the claim right.
They were dealing with dementiaclaims now, all of a sudden,
which were lasting longer thanthey anticipated.
So it was really a perfectstorm of bad stuff that happened
(22:07):
to the older traditionalpolicies.
Now, all that being said, as youwell know, each individual
state department of insuranceregulates rate increases.
Well, in some of these states,the states didn't want to allow
(22:27):
for rate increases moreincrementally, so they backed up
.
So they backed up.
You know the insurancecompanies, especially in a place
like California, I mean, it was, it was a nightmare, because
they just wouldn't approve rateincreases until, all of a sudden
, they realized these insurancecompanies were potentially going
to go broke if they didn't Kindof similar to what's happening
(22:49):
with homeowners insurance inCalifornia right now, and that's
a whole other topic too.
So the departments of insurancedragged their heels.
So ultimately, now we've seenall these big rate increases and
people can adjust thesepolicies.
What we're finding is that as weget these rate increases in,
(23:13):
you get on the phone with theclient and you say, okay, you
bought this with five percentcompound inflation, you probably
have more than enough benefits.
Let's drop the inflation rideroff or let's drop it down to
three percent.
So again, the client should notpanic when they get the rate
increase letter.
They should either call theiragent you know if they still if
(23:34):
the guy's still alive or isstill in the business or work
with the insurance companies toadjust the benefits to keep that
policy affordable.
In fact I've got for one Iwon't mention the company, but
I've probably got 30 of theseall that are sitting on my desk
that I know over the next yearthey're going to be getting
their rate increase letter fromthe insurance company and
(23:56):
because most of the agents areretired or passed away they used
to write the business throughmy agency I'm going to be
getting on the phone with allthese people and communicating
with them.
I don't want them to drop theirpolicies.
It's a very valuable piece ofprotection that they have.
We just need to figure out howto make it affordable for them,
(24:21):
and that's what you have to do.
As far as going forward and I'mprobably going on too long for
you here but the newer policiesthe asset-based policies, the
combo policies, the life andannuity policies with long-term
care benefits those have moreguarantees in them.
The rate structures areguaranteed.
You're paying more, of course,because you're now on a life
combo product.
You're paying to ensure tworisks You're ensuring life and
(24:43):
long-term care, so the going inpremium is higher, but again
you're going to have more rate.
There's going to be ratestability because they've built
the guarantees into thosepolicies.
So you know, again, theindustry is adapting.
I think a lot of the business isshifting to the combo products
(25:07):
and so they're very attractive,especially for people that can
just reposition someunderperforming assets or
reposition an annuity.
Okay that that you know they'vegot a, an annuity.
That's an old style deferredannuity.
It's out of the surrendercharge period.
They reposition it into a, along-term care annuity that
(25:30):
provides long-term care benefits, and then they're leveraging it
up for long-term care and whenthey go on claim the money that
comes out of that policy will betax-free as opposed to taxable.
So there's all kinds of goodreasons to look at, especially
if people have been purchasingannuities to repositioning an
(25:50):
older annuity to what's called aPension Protection Act approved
annuity, which allows for along-term care benefit within it
.
Tony Steuer (26:02):
Well, you covered so many things there and I think
at the end, what you'rementioning is a 1035 tax-free
exchange of an old contract, andyou can also use old life
insurance policies.
So sometimes if you have thesewhole life policies that have a
really high cash value thatyou're not intending to use,
(26:24):
those are a great source to funda long-term care insurance
policy.
A couple other things you knowin terms of pricing.
I want to add one of the thingsin my mind that I think was a
huge mistake on the part of theinsurance companies was lifetime
benefits instead of a definedbenefit pool.
Defined benefit pool is, youknow, when you look at other
(26:45):
types of insurance, the companyis saying we're going to insure
you for this amount and this isa maximum amount, and instead
they said, well, we'll just payyou for a lifetime, but we have
no idea what that's going toconsist of.
We're just going to guess.
You know.
Granted, actuaries are notguessing.
You know, actuaries are ascience, but at the end of the
(27:11):
day, it really is a guessbecause they have no idea what
was going to happen.
And when we look at other formsof coverage, you know some of
them have two, 300 years ofexperience that the insurance
companies can go back and lookat, so they engaged in
risk-taking behavior themselves.
Now that doesn't help peoplegoing forward, but it's
important to understand that.
You know the insurancecompanies, as you pointed out,
(27:32):
are learning from their mistakesand coming up with different
products that will hopefullyperform better.
Although you know my concernwith the combo products.
One, as you pointed out, isthat clients are paying for a
life insurance benefit that theymay or may not need, but with
the underperformance of so manylife insurance policies, you've
(27:53):
taken two products that have hadpricing issues and combine them
into one product, which meansthat if you do these asset-based
products is that you do need tokeep an eye on them and think
about the costs that you'repaying.
So sorry, just to give youranswer.
Barry Fisher (28:11):
Yeah, most of those, most of the life
insurance based combo productsare guaranteed.
Now I mean they're eitherguaranteed universal life Okay,
indexed or or fixed, okay, orit's it's a whole on a whole
life chassis.
So you know, the risk on thelife insurance piece is not
(28:32):
again the life insurance, youknow again, and I again not to
get doing the weeds, but I meanthe life insurance benefit
becomes minimal on those.
It's basically used to identify, you know, kind of create that
initial pool of money, thatinitial benefit that's paid out,
and then the client pays for anadditional continuation of
benefit rider to take it past atwo year type benefit.
(28:52):
So yes, which are againguaranteed rates, so they're
doing a better job on it, butagain they're representing, you
know, current reality in pricing, you know, and not reality from
1995 or 1996.
But you're right, lifetimebenefits with 5% compound
inflation on riders were prettydisastrous, yeah, and who could
(29:18):
have seen that coming?
Tony Steuer (29:19):
Well, it wasn't priced right, you know, it just
wasn't priced right.
Barry Fisher (29:21):
It wasn't priced right.
Tony Steuer (29:26):
It just wasn't priced right, yeah.
Well, that's the benefit withany type of financial services
to start off conservativelyrather than aggressively.
And that's what happened thecompanies got out of their skis.
We can talk about disabilityinsurance in the 80s that's
another great example but weshould probably move on from
this conversation.
But I do want to emphasize onething that you were talking
(29:46):
about is that there aredifferent contracts, and so it's
important to work with somebodywho understands the different
alternatives and can explainthem.
You know.
So, if you're a planner andyou're working with an insurance
agent, did you understand whatthe insurance agent is
presenting to your client?
And if you're a consumer, thesame thing ask questions, be
(30:09):
curious, make sure that thepolicy is going to do what you
expect it to do.
Right, Absolutely, you know.
There's no guarantees, ofcourse, but you can definitely
ask questions.
So, Barry, you know, before weget into the faster round of
questions, you know of questionsyou're also working on business
valuations.
So just real quick, and I thinkthis is becoming pertinent, as
(30:34):
baby boomers are starting tosell their businesses and
everything is age why shouldpeople and businesses consider
getting a business valuation?
Barry Fisher (30:43):
Well, just by way of you know, again, historically
my first love in the insurancebusiness was working with small
business owners.
You know closely owners ofclosely held businesses I won't
say small but closely heldbusinesses, Because again, of my
entrepreneurial spirit, I guessand one of the big aspects of
(31:05):
doing that is helping peoplewith their succession planning.
You know you got a couple ofpartners, or you have somebody
you want to pass your businesson to your kid OK, or you want
to sell your business.
But you know all those things.
Estate planning, you know thebusiness is a big piece of most
entrepreneurs' asset base.
(31:27):
Now 72% of business owners saythey plan to sell their business
and use that to fund theirretirement, but only 2% of
business owners know what theirbusiness is worth.
So when I restarted personalproduction, I was really
focusing on the business isworth.
So when I got, when I started,when I restarted personal
production, I was reallyfocusing on the business owner
(31:49):
market and I started talking topeople and you'd say to, you'd
say to a business owner what'syour?
Well, okay, you need to do thesuccession planning.
You need to do your buy sellagreement so you don't end up
with with in business with yourpartner's wife or spouse, okay,
that you have money there to buythem out of the value of the
business.
We need a buy-sell agreement.
(32:10):
Okay, what do you think yourbusiness is worth?
And people would look at youlike I have absolutely no idea.
So along that path, I discoveredan online business valuation
service called BizEquity andthey market specifically to
financial advisors and insuranceagents who are in this market
space and again, I won't go intoall the details, but it's all
(32:31):
online.
It's driven off of the taxreturns.
It's a really cool program.
It's not a certified valuation,but it's a credible valuation.
The company's run by businessvaluators.
It's a really cool tool.
And so what I do is I talk to aclient and I'll say listen, if
you don't have an idea what yourbusiness is worth, before we
(32:53):
even start talking about thesuccession planning stuff or the
key person stuff, we need to doa business valuation for you.
We need to figure out what yourbusiness is worth and with
three years of tax returns andsome other minimal information
from the client, I can do abusiness valuation within a
couple of weeks.
(33:13):
Normally, business valuation is$10,000, $15,000, $20,000 or
more.
It takes a long time, you know,and again and it's very
expensive, and so I've beenusing this as a way to help
business owners.
It's turned out that, asidefrom using it for the succession
planning piece, I get a lot ofcalls now from business owners
(33:35):
who say I'm ready to sell mybusiness, I just need a business
valuation.
So I basically charge a verynominal fee to do the business
valuation so I can get the rightnumbers.
Very nominal fee to do thebusiness valuation so I can get
the right numbers, and it's beena really fulfilling.
It's been.
I've learned so much about myown business by looking at other
people's tax returns andunderstanding how it all comes
(33:57):
together in somebody's taxreturn and then seeing how the
results on the platform come outfor the client, and it's been
very rewarding.
So again, there's all kinds ofreasons.
If a business owner doesn't dobusiness valuation, they're just
flying blind.
The other neat thing that thisservice does is it also provides
(34:18):
key performance indicators tothe client.
So in other words, this is alltied into big data.
That's how this valuation isgenerated and it's all tied to
the business's North Americanindustrial code number.
So after we get the input done,they can actually see how they
stack up against the competitionon a local and national level
(34:41):
on their key performanceindicators debt to equity,
inventory, turnover, all thosereally valuable management tools
that most closely heldbusinesses are clueless about.
So it's a really great service.
I really enjoy doing it.
It's a lot of fun.
That's awesome.
Tony Steuer (34:59):
And I think business valuations do tie into
long-term care planning that allof this is a continuum, you
know.
So what money myth are youtrying to break?
Barry Fisher (35:12):
The money myth.
This is a great one and I haveto say I didn't make it up.
A colleague of mine wrote thisup on LinkedIn and I took it to
the next level, probably.
But he talks about you knowevery, you know financial
advisors and this you know.
This is true whether it'slong-term care planning or
estate planning.
You know this goes back a longway.
(35:34):
It's like why do wealthy peoplebuy life insurance to pay their
estate taxes when all they haveto do is write a check or
liquidate a building?
And the answer is it's becauseit's more tax efficient.
You know it's more so.
(35:54):
It's more.
It just makes more sense.
And here's so.
He talked about the myth ofself-funding, and you know
self-funding is a myth becauseit, or self-insurance is a myth
because, ultimately, insuranceinvolves the pooling of risk,
and when you're taking on therisk without insurance, there is
no pooling with anybody else,okay.
So again, insurance implies arisk.
(36:17):
Now, you may self-fund, butdon't call it self-insurance,
okay.
The other big myth is thatpeople think well, again, I have
enough money to pay for thisout of my investments and all
that kind of stuff.
But most of the time, theydon't take into account what I
refer to as shrinkage.
They have this event, whetherit's death or whether it's
(36:40):
long-term care need they don'ttake into account?
What if the stock market's down?
What if your investments aredown?
Bad timing what about the taximplications of liquidating
assets?
Capital gains Everybody'stalking about capital gains
again, right?
Because the 2017 tax thing iscoming up in next year again.
So there's shrinkage.
There's tax impacts ofliquidation.
(37:01):
So you know, there's shrinkage.
There's tax impacts ofliquidation, so they don't.
The other big thing is that ina long term care planning
scenario, you generally have aspouse, two spouses, right, one
spouse goes down.
You need to start liquidatingassets or taking retirement
(37:21):
income to pay for the the sixspouses care.
What does the well spouse liveon?
So, again, when you starttaking apart the machine that's
designed to carry you throughretirement, the machine will
break down.
So some amount of long-termcare insurance or whether it's
(37:44):
life, whatever it is havinginsurance, sharing that risk
with a whole big pool of otherpeople with a tax-favored
vehicle, life insurance,long-term care insurance those
are all tax-free benefits andthat's a huge, huge benefit to
these policies and that's a hugehuge benefit to these policies.
Tony Steuer (38:06):
Yeah, and I think you point out something that's
especially important for peopleis the timing.
You don't know when you'regoing to have these events and
anything could be happening.
You know, if it was a greatrecession and you had to sell
(38:28):
your assets, you'd be sellingthem at a much reduced value or
market's down, and you'reheavily into stocks.
So, barry, to start to closeout, is what is your go-to
resource on money?
What is your number oneresource?
Is it a podcast?
Is it a website?
Is it a newsletter?
What's the one thing you'drecommend to people?
Barry Fisher (38:41):
Wow, that's a great question Again, know again
.
I mean, as you know, with my,with my radio show, I every week
I'm doing something aboutprotection and I do a ton of
research every week on variousdifferent topics.
I guess you know again, I findone of the best resources.
I think Investopedia does apretty good job on a lot of on a
(39:03):
lot of stuff does a pretty goodjob on a lot of stuff.
I think you know I definitelystay away from Wikipedia, yeah,
but again, I just read a variety.
I, you know I will say that oneof the best resources that I
use for multiple topics is and Idon't want to get it's a
(39:24):
website called Real Clear topics.
Is it's, and I and I don't wantto get it's it's a website
called real clear, real clearpolitics, real clear money, real
clear investing, real cleareducation.
They've got a.
They do real clearinvestigation.
I mean it's, it's so real it's.
If you'll go to real clearpoliticscom is the name, is the
actual website, but it's notpolitical, it it's not all
political and they always giveyou both sides of an issue,
(39:49):
political or otherwise.
So I really like that.
And again, when I do a search, alot of times on one of the
topics, investopedia comes up,especially for consumers.
It's understandable, it's clear, it's in bullet points.
I love bullet points.
You know people think in bulletpoints.
So, yeah, that's probably my goto stuff.
(40:09):
When I, when I think andobviously I look at the Wall
Street Journal and I, you knowBarron's and and all that kind
of stuff, I find one of thethings that I, you know, I find
some of the stuff.
I won't mention any specificmagazines, but a lot of
magazines will have, you know,stuff written in them that is
basically the writer is payingfor that space.
(40:32):
You know, in one way or theother it's a sales pitch for
that.
They're market makers.
Basically they're market makingarticles and so they're not
necessarily research, it's justone sided.
So that's where I generally go.
Tony Steuer (40:48):
Well, I think you said something super important
at the end is that people, whenyou're looking at sources of
information, even outside thefinancial spectrum, is think
about is this biased information, as you point out?
Is it presenting an argument onboth sides?
(41:08):
Who's paying for it?
That's an important factor.
So if you're watching TikTokand you see that video on Be
your Own Banker, but at the sametime that person's trying to
sell you whole life insurance,that may not be your best source
of information.
Barry Fisher (41:25):
Well, you know, again, I mean, yeah, I, every
day I have more disdain forsocial media of all of all types
.
You know, I mean, probably oneof the best social media sites
that you and I are both use itis LinkedIn, right, but half the
stuff, a lot of high percentageof this stuff, is advertiser
(41:46):
paid on there.
So, again, if you want to doyour research and again, if you
have a good financial advisor orinsurance agent, that's a great
source too, because especiallysomebody who's been in the
business for a while, who has adeep understanding of their
areas of specialization but alsohas a deep understanding of
what they don't know, and canget you to the right place,
(42:07):
because I think that's a reallyimportant thing to consider.
Tony Steuer (42:11):
Yeah, I love that.
You know, I think the smartestpeople are the ones who are the
ones who can say you know, thisis not something I know.
Right, let me find out for you.
That's the type of insuranceagent or financial advisor
you're looking for.
Out for you, that's the type ofinsurance agent or financial
advisor you're looking for.
Somebody will reach a point andsay you know what, I'm going to
have to check on this and getback to you because that's not
something I know.
(42:31):
Beware of the person who has ananswer to every single question
right off the bat.
So that's a great tip.
So, barry, to close out, whatis your number one tip on
changing the way we think aboutmoney?
Barry Fisher (42:45):
You know I don't.
I think my tip for consumerswould be that Listen, you know
at some level.
Again, we're going back to thesame topic.
What I find about working withwith consumers is they read a
lot of stuff online and whetherthey understand it or they don't
(43:06):
understand it.
Again, the number one tip is tofind somebody you trust and you
can work with I mean reallybecause you know, ultimately
somebody like me, somebody who'sa financial advisor, you know,
we're just here to help you.
We're your Sherpa, basicallywe're there.
We're here to assist you tosort through the clutter,
(43:28):
because there is a lot ofclutter out there.
So and and so, and don't let,don't, don't get paralysis
through analysis.
If you know, if you're dealingwith somebody you trust and
seems to know what they'retalking about, the insurance
companies that they arerepresenting are top rated
companies.
(43:48):
You know a rated companies arebetter.
Um, it here here's.
If something sounds too good tobe true, it probably is okay.
I mean, again there's.
I think we could do a wholeshow on this.
But but there is this wholeseries of life insurance
products with no cost benefits.
(44:10):
They call them no cost benefitsCritical illness, chronic
illness, terminal illness.
There is no such thing as nocost.
You either pay the cost upfront or you're going to pay it
in the back.
So if it says no cost, that'ssomething to be concerned about.
(44:30):
Anything good has a cost.
Tony Steuer (44:34):
Yeah, and insurance companies are not nonprofits.
Barry Fisher (44:37):
They are, Nor should they be.
They got to pay.
They got to pay.
They got to pay their claimsright.
Tony Steuer (44:42):
Yeah, and that gets back.
You know I don't want to reopenthe whole conversation, but I
think that gets back to what wewere talking about with the rate
increases and everything elseis at the end of the day,
insurance companies have to beable to pay claims, as you just
point out, and so when insurancecompanies you know they are
regulated they do have to havetheir premium increases approved
(45:03):
by various state insurancedepartments, but they have to
make a profit at the end of theday.
If they're not able to make aprofit, they can't pay their
claims and they can't stay inbusiness.
Um so, Barry, where can peoplelearn more about you?
Where can they tune into, uh,protecting what matters?
Barry Fisher (45:19):
Well, okay.
So, uh, protecting what mattersas a weekly 90 minute radio
show on K show on KPRL in PasoRobles, california.
It's live radio but you canlisten in at 1230 on Tuesday
online at kprlcom.
But I also take the show at theend of the show and we cut out
the commercials and I post it onmy website so you can see all
(45:41):
my past shows at wwwpwmradiocomand then you can see what else I
do on my website.
And whether it's long-term careinsurance or business valuation
or life insurance, I'm allabout protecting what matters
(46:03):
and I'm, you know, feel very,you know, blessed that I get to
keep doing this for as long asI'm, as long as I I want to, and
it can help people, so, okay.
Tony Steuer (46:16):
That's awesome and for everybody watching and
listening.
As always, there will be linksto Barry's website, to the radio
show and everything else, soyou can get in touch with Barry,
you can tune into the radioshow and everything else.
So you can get in touch withBarry, you can tune into the
radio show and find him.
Barry Fisher (46:32):
So, barry, thanks very much for coming on the Get
Ready Money podcast.
Thank you for having me, tony.
It's a pleasure and I have toget you back on protecting what
matters.
I should have looked up thedate.
You were on about a month and ahalf ago or two months ago, I
think it was a great show.
So you can hear Tony and Ibanter back and forth about
financial literacy.
It was great.
Tony Steuer (46:49):
Yeah, it's always a lot of fun Barry hanging out.
We did a lot of work togetherbut we won't open up that
because I don't think that'svery interesting for me watching
this thing.
But thank you everyone, asalways, for tuning in to this
episode of the Get Ready Moneypodcast.
If you learned something todayto change the way you think
about money, please be sure tosubscribe and to tell a friend.
(47:11):
Until next time, let's changethe way we think about money.
You.
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