April 9, 2024 • 37 mins
Are the rigorous demands of youth sports pushing our kids too hard? That's the pressing question Mike Bruno and I tackle head-on in our latest GFY podcast episode. We peel back the layers of youth athletics, starting with a deep-dive into the world of a high school swimmer whose story exemplifies the need for a diverse training regimen. We ponder the pitfalls of early sports specialization, advocating for a variety of exercise to keep our young athletes injury-free and at the top of their game. And let's not forget the lighter side of sports – hear why pickleball might just be the unexpected hero in the high-stakes world of competitive athletics.
The conversation takes a poignant turn as we confront the intense pressures that can lead to a mental health crisis, exemplified by the tragic story of a young athlete's struggle. We share personal anecdotes and professional insights to spark a candid discussion on the place of recovery and identity in the lives of these young competitors. As we navigate the moral quagmires of chiropractic practice and the divisive 'pay to play' model, we uncover the commercialized face of recovery that often overshadows the true spirit of athletic well-being.
Wrapping up, we grapple with the conundrum faced by athletes who must balance pushing their limits with the preservation of their health, illustrated by a bodybuilder's shoulder injury dilemma. We scrutinize the mental and physical trade-offs inherent in high-level sports, leaving listeners with a nuanced understanding of the athlete's journey. Finally, we reflect on the unexpected life lessons sports can teach us, ending on a note of personal growth and the power of self-discovery. So, gear up for an episode that tosses the playbook aside and gets real about the challenges and triumphs in the world of youth sports.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the GFY podcast, a podcast by healthcare
professionals providing insighton how to navigate your health
so that you can go fix yourself.
The GFY podcast is hosted byMike Bruno, a chiropractor and
athletic trainer.
Yours truly, michael Stant, anathletic trainer and certified
strength and conditioningspecialist.
Although we are healthcareproviders, we are not your
healthcare provider.
We will discuss general healthinterventions in this podcast,
(00:22):
but you should not take that ashealth advice that works in
every situation.
Before doing anything on yourown or making any lifestyle
changes, please consult withyour own physician.
This podcast and views fromthis podcast are separate from
our full-time jobs and are ourcompletely own opinions.
Today, we will be discussingvolume and youth athletics.
Bruno has questions to ask mevolume in youth athletics.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Bruno has questions to ask me before we do that.
Mikey, I just gotta say that itwas so nice of you when writing
that little intro that you putmy name first really makes me
smile you know it's funny.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
This is the first time I noticed that I put your
name first on it it's, it's.
I was just.
I was thinking as I read it.
I was like god why did?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I do that I don't know, but hey, you can't change
it now.
What is this episode?
Speaker 1 (01:06):
16?
, yeah, 16.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
No fun fact.
I hope you didn't get thatwrong yeah.
That would really mess stuff up.
I think people who makepodcasts like 1% of people get
to 20 episodes or 25, somethinglike that.
So we're on our way.
Oh, for those of you watchingon youtube, so probably nobody.
We got merch.
(01:31):
Check out the hats.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Check them out well, we'll have to throw it up on
instagram left and right andthen hope that people ask us to
buy them, and then we won't beable to sell them because we
don't have any in stock.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yeah because our dear friend shout out pat reynolds
made 15 for mikey's bachelorparty in nashville.
How many followers you think wegot because of that?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
oh, at least 50 um limited edition hats.
They're like gonna be like thebeanie babies um the beanie
babies any babies.
You know you had any binibabies mike, that's what I said
I said bina babies bini babiesbini babies well, that's a clip
(02:19):
right there.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
That's gonna be my favorite one.
Oh man, what do you?
What else do you say?
What do you mispronounce allthe time that we always gave you
shit for?
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Brother.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
No, not Wawa.
What was it?
Anyway, let's actually talkabout something useful.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
All right.
So my question when it comes tothe volume of youth athletes
and volume meaning like thesekids who so, example, I have a
high school swimmer.
He's been swimming six days aweek, basically year round,
since he like could swimcompetitively, right, right.
(03:00):
And to me, when, like I getthem on dry land and like in my
environment, like the kid barelyknows how to squat or like move
his body like other thanswimming.
So I'm just curious on, likewhat your recommendations would
be to someone who's like gettingtheir kid, who has a kid,
interested in athletics, andlike how you would progress them
(03:21):
with like science in mind.
Yeah, I mean, I was a kid.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
The kid I'm talking about he's 18 yeah, that's not
terrible, but like it's the sixdays a week thing, if they're
competitive swimmer I guess itmakes sense that's what they're
trying to do.
But dry and swimmingspecifically like dry land
training is very important totry to stave off some injuries,
especially shoulder stuff, thattypically happens in swimmers,
right um that's like the mainthing we're doing.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
I was like, do you like, does your coach put you
through like dry land stuff?
He goes, yeah, we run and doplanks.
Sometimes I said what aboutlike like, are you in the weight
room ever?
And he's like, oh yeah, I go tothe gym with my buddies and he
showed me like his bro split,and there there's no hinging
variation at all in in theentire thing.
It's like the most basic likehigh school bro split, like we
(04:12):
all did it right.
But like if I could just liketeach him things and like his
biggest thing was like, uh, likehe's, he's like he doesn't feel
as powerful in the pool as likekids he's racing against even
though, like the times aresimilar.
So I was like, if we can likegoing back to our other episode,
like if we could like boost hispower with dry land stuff and
that translates into the pool,that could shave.
(04:34):
That could be the difference ofhim going d1 or d2 potentially,
you know yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Um, I think you go back and you know you don't know
how this kid was brought up orwhat I mean, like you said it's
only right Like since 10, as faras I know, like surfer bro,
like he serves and does all thatcrap.
But yeah, creature of the sea.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Unlike you.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yeah, creature of the land myself.
But, um, yeah, the mostimportant thing, with a lot of
kids and you know, you see this,a lot of kids they start, you
know, I feel like we're we'veseen it so much where we know,
okay, they can't only play onesport, starting too early, like
they should be playing all thesports year round.
A lot of times you probablyclear up a lot of those
(05:20):
dysfunctional athletes beforethey truly get to college
setting if they're playingmultiple different sports.
The issue is that, for whateverreason it's a lot of anecdotal
stories or a lot of people likeyou get, like leonel messi is
like, oh yeah, he's the bestsoccer player of all time
because he started playingsoccer at six, only played
soccer at six people got torealize that's like an outlier
(05:42):
for the most part, most part, umthe most.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
That's an exception, not the rule you're saying yeah,
that's the exception, not therule.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Um, you know, generally it's play as many
different sports and be asphysically active in many
different ways as possible upuntil you're the age of 14 at
the very least.
Now I'm not saying that youshould special, automatically,
specialize at 14.
I'm just saying to, like formost growing individuals, that's
(06:10):
what you should do, just to tryto stave off any sport
adaptation that could be bad.
Like for swimming, where if allyou do is spend your time in
the pool six days a week orwhatever it is, training as a
kid that's, you get the badposture, you get the rounded
shoulders, the forward neck.
They start getting neck pain,shoulder pain, much sooner than
you'd want them to.
(06:31):
I always talk about this.
You know I worked with baseball.
I always said swimmers were theworst shoulders I've ever seen,
and it's whatever reason.
It's like there's no prevention, injury risk reduction
strategies that really go intoswimming.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Like it's for whatever reason.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
They all just swim and then they do whatever their
dry land training is, whichusually doesn't target much of
anything, it's usually just aday to get out of the pool.
You know, I worked rowing tooand it's fine.
We didn't even they didn't eventrain that much on the erg
during the winter.
They would only work out on theerg three times a week and then
(07:10):
cross-train the rest of theweek, just because they knew how
bad doing that one repetitivemovement over and over and over
again were for all of them.
So really the easiest way tokind of stay above something
like that is don't specialize inone sport, do multiple
different sports probably makesure like right also, I was
(07:33):
actually thinking about this theother day.
It's like what sport would youwant to pair with swimming?
It probably shouldn't be rowing, where you get the same exact
pathologies happening.
Right, you would hope that it'slike a soccer or it's a.
It's a more classic field sporttype of thing.
Maybe not wrestling, becausethat's once again just going to
be hanging out on a lot ofshoulders and labrums.
So maybe some like there.
(07:54):
There's probably some thoughtprocess that can go into which
sports specialize in, as long asthe kids having fun in them,
obviously I was gonna, that wasgonna be my first thing.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Like if me, as a kid, like all my friends, were
playing soccer and you were like, all right, you're gonna go
swim, I'd be like, no, like, Ilike I would throw.
You know what I mean?
Like yeah that, likenormalizing it to like a
population, is, I feel like suchan important step, like a whole
(08:25):
school.
So you're saying how old areyou when you're 14?
Is that high school?
Speaker 1 (08:29):
yeah, once you go into high school, like it, I
would say the recommendations.
I am not up to date on thisliterature whatsoever but I
would say generally, like 16would be like all right, you can
now get a one sport and youshould be in a pretty good spot
developmentally to like not losethe range, like important range
of motion for everyday livingyeah, the guys that I talk to
(08:53):
who are very like good movers asadults, a lot of them have a
gymnastics background backgroundas like as kids and then wait
real quick.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
But then, like the people who go from gymnastics as
kids and stay in gymnastics tobe either high school or college
gymnasts, those are the oneswho have like a lot of problems.
So, like the there's, it'ssomewhere along the line it
flips.
It goes from being like hey,this is really good for you as a
(09:27):
little kid and then you overdoit as an adult and then it
becomes detrimental to yourhealth it's me and courtney, my
wife, always talk about oh, isthat the first time you said it
on the?
Speaker 1 (09:40):
podcast.
Yes, uh, we always talk aboutwe want to expose our kids to
gymnastics and that's it like wedon't want to act like right,
because there's a lot of greatoverall body strength and
balance, appropriate deception,coordination that all goes into
gymnastics.
That you want a kid to learnand you know they're going to be
pretty strong and prettyathletic just from learning that
(10:00):
.
Where that flip happens ismaybe they're going to
gymnastics once, maybe twice aweek it's.
Then you start going five tosix times a week at the ages of
eight to twelve, when people arereally kind of developing,
especially young females.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
They're hitting puberty and things like that and
stuff is haywire so the the, Iguess the lifestyle around
gymnastics in like the highschool and like middle school
settings.
Parents will homeschool theirkids and drive them hours each
way to go to like the bestgymnast facilities you know, ice
(10:37):
skating is the same exact thing, and that's why courtney talks.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Courtney talks about it.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Who's?
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Courtney, my wife.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
There it is.
Look at him blushing.
Look how red he is.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, Natural tone in my face, Okay.
So that's how crazy and this issorry I don't want to point out
all these parents, especiallyCourtney's mom.
But like that's some of thethings that you have to weave
through too.
It's like all of a suddenthey'll go all right, you're
(11:11):
getting homeschooled because youcould be the next simone biles
gymnastic.
Why so?
We're gonna put our effort intothat.
And then you go to thesecoaches very sport specific
coaches that might not.
They don't really.
It's all about performance.
There's no, there's no injuryrisk reductions either.
You can do it you compete at thetop or you get hurt and you're
(11:33):
just throwing the back,especially in gymnastics and
figure skating, where their timewindows to like be competitive
or like tiny right.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
No, this actually sparks a really interesting
argument with the whole um likecompression, expansion model
type people.
So like your bill hartman, zachcouples, pat davidson, all
those guys, they're like I'veheard them say multiple times in
like some sort of iterationwhere, like all linemen, all nba
(12:05):
basketball players, allbaseball pitchers, for the most
part their body shape andstructure look a certain way for
a reason, and it's not becausethey grew up playing baseball,
football, whatever their wholelife, it's because their natural
body structure kind of gavethem superpowers in that one
specific thing that allowed themto achieve that like super high
(12:27):
one percent of like pro collegesports or whatever.
So going all the way back tolike being a kid and seeing them
develop and having thatknowledge and being able to like
dictate, you're going to be abetter lineman than point guard
and go from there, which isinsane.
I think they do that in Russia,where they're like you're a
(12:48):
power lifter.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
They do that in Russia.
I don't think they measure thesize of your hand and be like
you can power lift.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
You get people who and fighters are a great example
.
So there's so many differentlike sizes and shapes of
fighters heavyweights,lightweights, right, so them
being able to be at that top 1%,but all different body shapes
like you don't really see thattoo often same.
(13:27):
Most nba players look the same.
Hockey players tend to look thesame.
There are outliers, of course,but is it that that person is so
good at what they do because oftheir structure and then all
the added years of skill on topof that, or is and that got them
there?
Or can you be built to do to bea swimmer, but put enough
effort in and become a shotputter?
You know what I mean what wouldyou?
(13:49):
what would you say?
Speaker 1 (13:50):
do it at a young enough age and get them to to
get the range of motionnecessary.
But there's definitely a hugegenetic component.
Like, right, there are somepeople kind of what you're
saying that are just built acertain way and they can, just
they can go throw 100 miles perhour without ever training.
They can be the bo jackson thatcan squat 400 pounds without
ever actually squatting.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Um, I I tell people that all the time when, like
we're doing the movementassessments and stuff, like
looking at the way they move,it's like you're built to squat
and like which one feels morenatural like versus squat or a
deadlift and a lot of the times,what they you're built to squat
and like which one feels morenatural like versus squat or a
deadlift and a lot of the times,what they're like built to do
quote unquote is what they biastowards, like oh, I love squats,
(14:32):
I hate deadlifts or somethingalong those lines and that kind
of like confirms yeah, I thinkthat's a good lay person way of
like going like hey, you'rebuilt for squat, you're built
for this exercise.
Like right up down verse backand forth me personally.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
I'm built for running .
For what reason I don't know,but I can naturally run at a
quick pace, even when I wasn'treally running relative,
relatively that much.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
That's probably more of a physiology thing with me as
opposed to biomechanics,because I'm 5'8 and no long
length to really propel me but,I think that's a good way to
think about it yeah, and you'rea unique case too, because at
your heaviest, when you werelifting really heavy, how much
heavier were you?
Speaker 1 (15:18):
I mean, I was like 200 pounds yeah, so what are you
now?
Speaker 2 (15:22):
like 160 yeah you had 40 pounds of muscle, maybe some
fat on there, like that's.
Yeah, that's crazy.
That's crazy that you could andyou were strong as shit from
like a numbers perspective there, and now you're like fast
endurance, like you have thatcapacity so you can train and
(15:44):
adapt.
Your body is very adaptable.
Yeah, the point of I guess foreveryone listening, the point of
what we're saying is you arebuilt to have certain
superpowers, so it's do youchoose to use them or not?
Because you can train in eitherway, but there's not a lot of
five, five centers in in the NBA, you know, and that's
(16:07):
intentional, that's naturalselection.
So it's super interesting,super interesting argument.
But it comes down, especiallywith kids, it comes down to
desire.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
I feel like, for the most part, yeah, I mean like you
you hear the well, I see it allthe time in college athletics.
Like you get a kid who's afreshman that's there and
they're like I don't even wantto play this sport anymore and
like, right, they probably lostto play that sport years ago.
They were just like, oh well,parent, pressure slash, maybe I
can get a scholarship.
(16:43):
Pressure slash, I got thescholarship.
Now I to just like hang aroundand try to hold on to it as long
as I can should we just turnthis into a roasting?
Speaker 2 (16:52):
the crazy parents, the crazy sport parents, episode
that kind of seems like whereit's going.
I know.
I mean everyone knows that.
Everyone knows that person.
When you think crazy sportparent, everyone's got someone
in mind yeah it's.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
You know it's funny.
We only talk about.
We talk about all these peoplemake professional sports and
like it's because you know, I'msure it's a little bit of both.
Like right, they're probablygenetically gifted, built a
certain way, then you add allthe skill on it as well.
Like probably helps a lot.
But then you know we also youmiss all the stories that happen
in youth sports and high schoolsports where there are kids
(17:25):
that try to do all that and theyall got broken and hurt and
things didn't work out.
And you know you look at theschedules.
I always talk about thebaseball schedule.
I will work showcases.
You know random high schoolprospect camps essentially june,
july, you know it's whatever.
By the time august rolls around,that amount of kids that I
(17:45):
start seeing with shoulder andelbow pain and things like that
and they'll be talking about ohyeah, I just finished, so right.
They're typically coming offtheir high school season that
started march 1st.
They do all this.
It's august.
So how many months is that?
March, april, may, june, july,august?
We're at six months.
That's already.
That's.
That's a college baseball.
That's almost like a pro seasonsix months.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
And then they're going yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
I still got a.
I still plan on playing fallball and pitching and fall ball
as well.
And it's just like dude, yougot to take a break Like this
isn't the time.
The research for baseball,specifically, is you're supposed
to take two months off, twoconsecutive months off before.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Is it rest or off of pitching?
Speaker 1 (18:26):
off from pitching throwing right, so I feel like
that's another thing.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
When people say rest, it's like, oh, I can't lose
progress like, just take sometime away from your sport, like
that.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
I think a lot of times, if you get people to do
that especially you know thosechronic you know like you're
still going to have the acuteinjuries, the injuries at the
sprain, ankles, things.
But in swim swimming, baseball,tennis, you just take two
months off and like just trainand do other stuff for two
months consecutively and thenget back to the sport yeah, like
(18:58):
, go have, go have some fun playpickleball.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
It's great.
I just picked it up.
It's fantastic yeah can't sayenough good things about it I
really want to pick uppickleball.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Actually I'll have to dude.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Go get a paddle.
You and your wife can go play.
It's phenomenal.
It's not as much skill requiredas tennis, but you still get a
good sweat super fun, but yeah,that's you hear.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
All these kids get broken essentially in the summer
, offseason stuff.
But the problem for collegeathletics is summer is like the
heaviest recruiting time.
So there's times where Ievaluate a kid at a random camp
and it's like having to tellthem you need to take time off,
like that's the only way thisthing most likely gets better.
It's better.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yeah, I also think the broken thing is twofold, not
only physical but especially toa developing kid, how much
mental strain that puts on them,especially because when you're
a kid like identifying as abaseball player or whatever and
then not being able to do that.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Or, like you said, hating baseball and feeling
forced and pressured to do it.
Like there are some very sad Iwent to when I was in high
school.
There was a girl.
She was a really, really goodcross country runner, like super
smart, like the whole nineRight and and she committed
(20:19):
suicide because of.
I mean, the alleged story islike she committed suicide
because of the, like, thepressures that got to her
between school and running.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
so like the mental aspect is one that's talked
about way less, but equally, ifnot more, important yeah, yeah,
I think it's funny, even me andyou talking about I, I would say
I miss it sometimes, honestly,a lot of times.
I don't work in that population, but yeah, it's a huge.
That's a huge thing to take intoaccount.
Um, especially, yeah,especially in that college world
(20:52):
, like and you hear this, I feellike I haven't heard one of
those stories recently, but likeI think it just it's just
because we haven't heard it of abig name athlete happened
recently so but.
I hear it all the time in thathigh school like because those
are huge ages, a lot ofdifferent thoughts going on,
really it's you know a lot ofpeople.
(21:13):
Uh, it's big growing mentallyfor a lot of kids at that age.
So it's especially kind of whatyou said.
They identify with that sport,like I am this person of this
sport.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
If I don't have that sport, I am nothing yeah, and
when it gets to that kind oflevel like the risk to reward
ratio is just so out of whack Ihate to say it like I'm, like I
want to guide my kid away from.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
I don't want to say competitive yeah, yeah
competitive, competitive sports,like I want them to go have.
Go read a bunch of books, golearn musical instruments, go
learn computer programming,probably make more money doing
that than they ever will playingsports.
So like, go, go, go, do thatstuff and have fun in that and
don't let a sport make identifyyourself in that.
(22:01):
And, like you know, even evenme me growing up I think that's
how we get into athletictraining a lot of times, right,
you kind of identify with aspecific sport and then you know
, I think, us, a lot of us in it.
We realize, oh wow, we'rereally not good at that sport
and that, but we still want tobe around it and we still
identify, you know, as athletictrainers.
I don't know how it is in thechiropractic world, but, like
(22:24):
you know, people will startidentifying with the profession
as well.
And then there's a whole like Ican't be who I am if I'm not an
athletic trainer.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Dude, there's a lot of kids who I went to school
with, who whose dads, uncles,moms, aunts, like the whole
family was chiropractors.
It's like a weird.
I was the weirdo for not notknowing anyone who was a
chiropractor and not liking itbefore I went to school.
(22:55):
Did I ever tell you that story?
I went to like I just hadnon-specific low back pain like
just started really liftingconsistently in high school and
I went to the chiropractor and Ishit you not.
He came out with a big pvc pipeand a bowling ball in the end
and he was like every inch youlean forward puts this much more
(23:17):
stress on your spine and blahlike the most gimmicky thing you
could possibly imagine.
And as a kid I was like stillskeptical.
I was like what is this guytalking about?
And then I was like, okay, I'llgive him another, I'll give him
another shot.
Um, I said when, like how longis this going to take until I
(23:39):
feel better?
Like when should I come?
Like when should I come back?
Next?
He goes oh, you're going tocome back three times a week
until your insurance runs outliterally what he said.
Yeah, and even like as a kid,not even knowing what insurance
like really was.
So I was like all right I guessthat's how it works.
I either get better or I don't.
So, like being where I am now,I like that's out there.
(24:03):
I can't imagine having someonewho is in pain and like in my
office and being like you canonly come in until, like, your
money runs out and then you'rescrewed like I don't really care
if you get better or not.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
That's why he didn't give you anything to do on your
own either.
He was just a crackety poppity.
Look at that, your, yourbowling ball head isn't leading
us far forward.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Your spine was here, and now it's here it's.
I mean, we don't have to godown that tangent hole again,
but I think we already did thatonce.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Um, yeah, the youth sport thing is.
It's interesting, like we evenneed to like I don't have the
money behind it.
Like you know, there's a pieceI think espn did it, um, which
is kind of surprising, I'mthinking about it where they
were calling it like pay to play, like right, if you want to get
your kid to the top level andstuff like that, like the
(25:02):
athletes that actually make it,a lot of times it's more of a,
you've got to be able to afford,to be able to like be in these
tournaments and these projectsyeah things like that.
Um, which is funny to think,when I was in high school I was
like, oh yeah, I want to playcollege sport, but I never did
any of that.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
I was just playing high school sports and there's
there's also that barrier, thatpay barrier, to actually get
into those camps, to actuallyget recruited, to then possibly
play in college and on the otherside of that too, that's the
word recovery has totally lostmeaning, in my opinion, because
it means anything and everythingto sell you something to keep
(25:40):
you going like, just like that.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
So you'll get me on this tangent, like I get it if
I'm working collegiate baseballin season.
We're trying to get you througha season.
All right, I'll chuck all themodalities at you like right I
want you to feel good, but isfeeling good actually good for
you?
Like, is it or are you gonna?
(26:02):
Are you gonna push throughsomething that you're not
supposed to be pushing through?
So, even when the recoverymodalities now your STEM units,
the ice baths you know ice bathsmight retard muscle hypertrophy
, so don't do it.
After lifting, what else?
Massage guns, things like that,that stuff that makes you
better Are they actuallyphysiologically recovering you
or are you just feeling betterand you might push through
(26:25):
something that you shouldn't?
like that's that's you know I, Ipersonally, right now don't use
any of that stuff and for forrunning and training, and that's
it's for that reason, because Idon't want to push my self
through something that Ishouldn't be pushing it through
interesting perspective yeah, soI've had that I've had that
(26:45):
talk with people so like right,college baseball, fall ball.
I am less apt to let people kindof use that stuff on a regular
basis, you know, if it's likehey, and they probably get a
little bit more benefit whenthey do use it.
But I don't want them feelinggood, push through something
that might actually be actualpathology, might be an actual
(27:07):
injury.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Gotcha.
So not feeling good in thesense of no injury, you mean
using modalities to mask apotential underlying something,
or other yeah.
Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Yeah, so that's something I always have to.
You know, a lot of times for meas a clinician, I am like, hey,
I want, can I get an ice bag?
And then I absolutely destroythem with questions on why they
want an ice bag.
And then, typically, we end upgetting an ice bag and they come
in for exercises the next dayum right, that's typically what
the process would be, but it'sbecause I yeah, I think early on
(27:41):
in my career it would justespecially like in the football
world, where it really is likethey push through everything and
anything and you're just tryingto get them through.
He feels bad because he playsfootball, so ice stim, ice stim
massage gun.
Norm Tech, boots, whatever, andI think a lot of times we might
(28:02):
forget that there might besomething brewing.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yeah.
So that's actually something Imean.
I run into it in Gen Pop.
You probably run into it at amuch higher scale when you have
such a high volume of activity.
So, x amount of hours ofpractice every day, five, six
times a week, right.
And then all they want to do isget some sort of relief and
chill, right.
(28:27):
And then they come into you andthey're like, hey, like can I
just get some ice for my elbow?
And then you're like, no, youhave to do more exercises.
Like do you think that?
Like how do you think that islike perceived?
And how do you, how do you makethem understand that you're
just like not just trying togive them extra work and you're
actually trying to help them inthe long run, like the longevity
(28:47):
?
Speaker 1 (28:47):
aspect me giving all I always give all the research
around loosely, what elbowsoreness technically leads to,
even if it's not in aproblematic area.
But then, it's also like, hey,if you're doing all this
activity, you got to have thestrength to tolerate all this
activity so and you got to beable to have the endurance so
(29:07):
that your scapula doesn't fail,the your muscles around your
scapula don't fail.
So you're putting more stress onyour rotator cuff or you're
putting more stress on yourelbow while you're throwing um.
So that's typically how I runthrough it.
It's we gotta do a little bitmore, and a lot of times I I
make sure that it's more part ofa warm-up as it's changing up a
warm-up or anything for them,as opposed to really layering,
(29:29):
layering a lot of rehab,especially if they're in season.
When we're out of season, Icrush people like it's hey, we
are loading you to the t,especially post-coach school too
.
It's you know, hey, I gotta getyour volume up before you even
come close to touching abaseball.
So they end up doing a lot ofvolume.
(29:49):
Shoulder work wise.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Hip work wise, you know, in the college you're
working with strength coach too,to get the entire body down
yeah, I totally, totally vibewith that because you can't out
rehab interference.
So if someone's has a highvolume of like junky movement
every single day, right, youdoing exercises, like a couple
(30:15):
exercises, either beginning orthe end, how much is that going
to move the needle?
But if you can modify and kindof like change everything up,
like the way that you'reexplaining and being able to be
like, hey, like this is what youhave to do to play your sport,
I get that right.
I'm not baseball coach.
But when it's time to turn thatoff and it's time to help you
(30:37):
fix yourself from all the damagethat you've done, right,
because they can.
I've heard the argument evenlike is playing sports and being
active quote unquote healthyfor the reason of like it's
intentionally repetitive stressdamage, all this kind of stuff,
right.
So being able to kind ofcounterbalance the demand of
(30:58):
sport and the demand of exercisewith intentional programming
call it rehab right is a hugebalance on the scale, because if
you have way too much of one,the other isn't really it's not
enough weight to kind of likeget you back to feeling good and
performing good in my opinion,any strength fishing person you
(31:21):
can go back to like theperiodization idea or like you
know it's like if you're in hightraining mode that means like
your volume elsewhere needs tobe less things like that.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
But yeah, I think the important thing there is just
realizing make sure you'retaking time away from whatever.
If something comes in, it'slike all right, we'll deal with
it.
Now the long-term solutionshould not be all those
modalities and things to try tofeel right you'll sort.
A long-term solution isultimately going to be how about
we get something stronger?
How about we get somethingstronger?
(31:53):
How about we get you movingbetter, so that when you go back
to your sport again, you don'thave the same issue?
Speaker 2 (31:59):
yeah, I have a patient who's a bodybuilder and
like the whole nine um, enormoushuman being and he was talking
about.
He like my shoulders like sojacked up, blah, blah, blah, and
I had that conversation withhim.
I was like we, if you'retraining at like such a high
(32:19):
load intensity daily, yada, yada, we can't out rehab, all of
this stress you're puttingthrough your shoulder.
So he, we, we came to theconclusion where he's like I
need to do this to get to my endgoal.
Like have a coach like this islike what I have to do and
that's not my area of expertise.
(32:40):
So like is there a better wayto load the shoulder while he's
training?
Probably, but at the same time,like he's completely willing.
So he's like once, once I get,once I compete, and then we
circle back, I'm down to likeactually go through rehab and
like fix it for good so thatnext time he competes like maybe
(33:02):
a year from now or whateverthat he doesn't have those
problems because he hasincreased range of motion and
more like competency andcapacity to load all those types
of fun things, which kind ofsounds like a parallel to what
you were saying with thebaseball.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
No, no, it's the exact same exact thing.
Right, get him through whatever, whatever his competition is,
modify his activity, maybe stickaway from anything overhead.
You start doing a floor presstoo or things like that, just so
he doesn't completely yeah loseeverything or he does whatever.
Exercise is pain-free, but thenit gives you time to actually
try to correct some movementsand dysfunction that he has a
(33:36):
hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
You can't ignore the competition level and like all
the things like going back towhy people are so we're playing
around at such a high volume,like you can't ignore.
You can't ignore that becauseif you do that and their
performance suffers on the field, right, if you like, kind of
take, ignore.
You can't ignore that, becauseif you do that and their
performance suffers on the field, right, if you like kind of
take, if you really heavilyrestrict them, change all this
(33:59):
stuff up and it's they suffer inperformance like they're gonna
be pissed yeah you know what Imean, even though is it the best
thing to help them avoidpotential injury?
Maybe, but like it's a reallyreally fine line Once you start,
the more and more we talk aboutit, I'm like Ooh, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Yeah, it's funny.
You're getting into theperformance side, so it's it's
funny.
Sorry to keep going back tobaseball, but this is probably
across all sports the the fasteryou throw the ball, the more
likely you're gonna get hurt.
That is easily across sports,or across all baseball
literature, yada, yada, but it'sgonna be the same across sports
(34:42):
.
The faster you run, the morestress you're putting on
yourself.
So you, like you, startteetering this line of like oh,
I think we even had it at udwith our, with our force plates.
It's like you realize that.
Like, oh, why is this person atrisk of injury?
They're the best player on ourteam.
Well, probably because they'reoutputting the most force out of
(35:02):
any out of everyone else like.
That's why they're like there's.
Sometimes there iscompensations that occur that
are very sport specific, thatare very good performance
reasons.
It's going to get someone far,but then you're worrying about
that injury risk wow, this isgood stuff, man.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
This is good stuff, I would say.
I would say the biggest thingthat we talked about from like
not only the volume of theathletic sorry, the physical
component, also the don'tdiscredit or ignore the volume
that that places on the mentalcomponent and and teetering that
(35:45):
fine line between performanceand health right, Because
putting yourself in a betterposition to perform could put
your health at more risk.
So, going into that with eyeswide open, I feel like people
don't necessarily fullycomprehend that when they're in
(36:06):
it, but when you can take a stepback and appreciate the big
picture it's and have aconversation right when you're
not in the heat picture it's andhave a conversation right when
you're not in the heat of it, Ithink is a very valuable thing
for athletes to take home yeah,I think a lot of times.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
So, right, you talk about the mental side of the
performance versus the risk ofperformance.
Um, it's, I think, what yousaid.
Take a step back.
What are your goals?
If that's your goal, you canget there.
Just realize the risk that canpotentially come along here's
how we're going to mitigatethose risks throughout the
program and how we kind of setyou self.
(36:42):
So set yourself up for thatyear cycle.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
However, not everything's foolproof right,
yeah, 100 man good episode.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think that actually ended upbeing a lot a decent amount to
take away from that.
He just started talking aboutsports and got us all riled up.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Yeah, who would have thought, man, who would have
thought yeah?
Speaker 1 (37:07):
So what are you going to do tomorrow?
What are you going to teachsomeone to do what?
Speaker 2 (37:12):
do you mean?
What were you going to teachsomeone to do?
What do you mean?
What were you setting me up for?
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Go fix yourself, god damn it.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Go fix yourself.
Welcome to the GFY podcast, a podcast by healthcare
professionals providing insighton how to navigate your health
so that you can go fix yourself.
The GFY podcast is hosted byMike Bruno, a chiropractor and
athletic trainer.
Yours truly, michael Stant, anathletic trainer and certified
strength and conditioningspecialist.
Although we are healthcareproviders, we are not your
healthcare provider.
We will discuss general healthinterventions in this podcast,
(00:22):
but you should not take that ashealth advice that works in
every situation.
Before doing anything on yourown or making any lifestyle
changes, please consult withyour own physician.
This podcast and views fromthis podcast are separate from
our full-time jobs and are ourcompletely own opinions.
Today, we will be discussingvolume and youth athletics.
Bruno has questions to ask mevolume in youth athletics.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Bruno has questions to ask me before we do that.
Mikey, I just gotta say that itwas so nice of you when writing
that little intro that you putmy name first really makes me
smile you know it's funny.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
This is the first time I noticed that I put your
name first on it it's, it's.
I was just.
I was thinking as I read it.
I was like god why did?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I do that I don't know, but hey, you can't change
it now.
What is this episode?
Speaker 1 (01:06):
16?
, yeah, 16.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
No fun fact.
I hope you didn't get thatwrong yeah.
That would really mess stuff up.
I think people who makepodcasts like 1% of people get
to 20 episodes or 25, somethinglike that.
So we're on our way.
Oh, for those of you watchingon youtube, so probably nobody.
We got merch.
(01:31):
Check out the hats.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Check them out well, we'll have to throw it up on
instagram left and right andthen hope that people ask us to
buy them, and then we won't beable to sell them because we
don't have any in stock.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yeah because our dear friend shout out pat reynolds
made 15 for mikey's bachelorparty in nashville.
How many followers you think wegot because of that?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
oh, at least 50 um limited edition hats.
They're like gonna be like thebeanie babies um the beanie
babies any babies.
You know you had any binibabies mike, that's what I said
I said bina babies bini babiesbini babies well, that's a clip
(02:19):
right there.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
That's gonna be my favorite one.
Oh man, what do you?
What else do you say?
What do you mispronounce allthe time that we always gave you
shit for?
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Brother.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
No, not Wawa.
What was it?
Anyway, let's actually talkabout something useful.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
All right.
So my question when it comes tothe volume of youth athletes
and volume meaning like thesekids who so, example, I have a
high school swimmer.
He's been swimming six days aweek, basically year round,
since he like could swimcompetitively, right, right.
(03:00):
And to me, when, like I getthem on dry land and like in my
environment, like the kid barelyknows how to squat or like move
his body like other thanswimming.
So I'm just curious on, likewhat your recommendations would
be to someone who's like gettingtheir kid, who has a kid,
interested in athletics, andlike how you would progress them
(03:21):
with like science in mind.
Yeah, I mean, I was a kid.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
The kid I'm talking about he's 18 yeah, that's not
terrible, but like it's the sixdays a week thing, if they're
competitive swimmer I guess itmakes sense that's what they're
trying to do.
But dry and swimmingspecifically like dry land
training is very important totry to stave off some injuries,
especially shoulder stuff, thattypically happens in swimmers,
right um that's like the mainthing we're doing.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
I was like, do you like, does your coach put you
through like dry land stuff?
He goes, yeah, we run and doplanks.
Sometimes I said what aboutlike like, are you in the weight
room ever?
And he's like, oh yeah, I go tothe gym with my buddies and he
showed me like his bro split,and there there's no hinging
variation at all in in theentire thing.
It's like the most basic likehigh school bro split, like we
(04:12):
all did it right.
But like if I could just liketeach him things and like his
biggest thing was like, uh, likehe's, he's like he doesn't feel
as powerful in the pool as likekids he's racing against even
though, like the times aresimilar.
So I was like, if we can likegoing back to our other episode,
like if we could like boost hispower with dry land stuff and
that translates into the pool,that could shave.
(04:34):
That could be the difference ofhim going d1 or d2 potentially,
you know yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Um, I think you go back and you know you don't know
how this kid was brought up orwhat I mean, like you said it's
only right Like since 10, as faras I know, like surfer bro,
like he serves and does all thatcrap.
But yeah, creature of the sea.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Unlike you.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yeah, creature of the land myself.
But, um, yeah, the mostimportant thing, with a lot of
kids and you know, you see this,a lot of kids they start, you
know, I feel like we're we'veseen it so much where we know,
okay, they can't only play onesport, starting too early, like
they should be playing all thesports year round.
A lot of times you probablyclear up a lot of those
(05:20):
dysfunctional athletes beforethey truly get to college
setting if they're playingmultiple different sports.
The issue is that, for whateverreason it's a lot of anecdotal
stories or a lot of people likeyou get, like leonel messi is
like, oh yeah, he's the bestsoccer player of all time
because he started playingsoccer at six, only played
soccer at six people got torealize that's like an outlier
(05:42):
for the most part, most part, umthe most.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
That's an exception, not the rule you're saying yeah,
that's the exception, not therule.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Um, you know, generally it's play as many
different sports and be asphysically active in many
different ways as possible upuntil you're the age of 14 at
the very least.
Now I'm not saying that youshould special, automatically,
specialize at 14.
I'm just saying to, like formost growing individuals, that's
(06:10):
what you should do, just to tryto stave off any sport
adaptation that could be bad.
Like for swimming, where if allyou do is spend your time in
the pool six days a week orwhatever it is, training as a
kid that's, you get the badposture, you get the rounded
shoulders, the forward neck.
They start getting neck pain,shoulder pain, much sooner than
you'd want them to.
(06:31):
I always talk about this.
You know I worked with baseball.
I always said swimmers were theworst shoulders I've ever seen,
and it's whatever reason.
It's like there's no prevention, injury risk reduction
strategies that really go intoswimming.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Like it's for whatever reason.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
They all just swim and then they do whatever their
dry land training is, whichusually doesn't target much of
anything, it's usually just aday to get out of the pool.
You know, I worked rowing tooand it's fine.
We didn't even they didn't eventrain that much on the erg
during the winter.
They would only work out on theerg three times a week and then
(07:10):
cross-train the rest of theweek, just because they knew how
bad doing that one repetitivemovement over and over and over
again were for all of them.
So really the easiest way tokind of stay above something
like that is don't specialize inone sport, do multiple
different sports probably makesure like right also, I was
(07:33):
actually thinking about this theother day.
It's like what sport would youwant to pair with swimming?
It probably shouldn't be rowing, where you get the same exact
pathologies happening.
Right, you would hope that it'slike a soccer or it's a.
It's a more classic field sporttype of thing.
Maybe not wrestling, becausethat's once again just going to
be hanging out on a lot ofshoulders and labrums.
So maybe some like there.
(07:54):
There's probably some thoughtprocess that can go into which
sports specialize in, as long asthe kids having fun in them,
obviously I was gonna, that wasgonna be my first thing.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Like if me, as a kid, like all my friends, were
playing soccer and you were like, all right, you're gonna go
swim, I'd be like, no, like, Ilike I would throw.
You know what I mean?
Like yeah that, likenormalizing it to like a
population, is, I feel like suchan important step, like a whole
(08:25):
school.
So you're saying how old areyou when you're 14?
Is that high school?
Speaker 1 (08:29):
yeah, once you go into high school, like it, I
would say the recommendations.
I am not up to date on thisliterature whatsoever but I
would say generally, like 16would be like all right, you can
now get a one sport and youshould be in a pretty good spot
developmentally to like not losethe range, like important range
of motion for everyday livingyeah, the guys that I talk to
(08:53):
who are very like good movers asadults, a lot of them have a
gymnastics background backgroundas like as kids and then wait
real quick.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
But then, like the people who go from gymnastics as
kids and stay in gymnastics tobe either high school or college
gymnasts, those are the oneswho have like a lot of problems.
So, like the there's, it'ssomewhere along the line it
flips.
It goes from being like hey,this is really good for you as a
(09:27):
little kid and then you overdoit as an adult and then it
becomes detrimental to yourhealth it's me and courtney, my
wife, always talk about oh, isthat the first time you said it
on the?
Speaker 1 (09:40):
podcast.
Yes, uh, we always talk aboutwe want to expose our kids to
gymnastics and that's it like wedon't want to act like right,
because there's a lot of greatoverall body strength and
balance, appropriate deception,coordination that all goes into
gymnastics.
That you want a kid to learnand you know they're going to be
pretty strong and prettyathletic just from learning that
(10:00):
.
Where that flip happens ismaybe they're going to
gymnastics once, maybe twice aweek it's.
Then you start going five tosix times a week at the ages of
eight to twelve, when people arereally kind of developing,
especially young females.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
They're hitting puberty and things like that and
stuff is haywire so the the, Iguess the lifestyle around
gymnastics in like the highschool and like middle school
settings.
Parents will homeschool theirkids and drive them hours each
way to go to like the bestgymnast facilities you know, ice
(10:37):
skating is the same exact thing, and that's why courtney talks.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Courtney talks about it.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Who's?
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Courtney, my wife.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
There it is.
Look at him blushing.
Look how red he is.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, Natural tone in my face, Okay.
So that's how crazy and this issorry I don't want to point out
all these parents, especiallyCourtney's mom.
But like that's some of thethings that you have to weave
through too.
It's like all of a suddenthey'll go all right, you're
(11:11):
getting homeschooled because youcould be the next simone biles
gymnastic.
Why so?
We're gonna put our effort intothat.
And then you go to thesecoaches very sport specific
coaches that might not.
They don't really.
It's all about performance.
There's no, there's no injuryrisk reductions either.
You can do it you compete at thetop or you get hurt and you're
(11:33):
just throwing the back,especially in gymnastics and
figure skating, where their timewindows to like be competitive
or like tiny right.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
No, this actually sparks a really interesting
argument with the whole um likecompression, expansion model
type people.
So like your bill hartman, zachcouples, pat davidson, all
those guys, they're like I'veheard them say multiple times in
like some sort of iterationwhere, like all linemen, all nba
(12:05):
basketball players, allbaseball pitchers, for the most
part their body shape andstructure look a certain way for
a reason, and it's not becausethey grew up playing baseball,
football, whatever their wholelife, it's because their natural
body structure kind of gavethem superpowers in that one
specific thing that allowed themto achieve that like super high
(12:27):
one percent of like pro collegesports or whatever.
So going all the way back tolike being a kid and seeing them
develop and having thatknowledge and being able to like
dictate, you're going to be abetter lineman than point guard
and go from there, which isinsane.
I think they do that in Russia,where they're like you're a
(12:48):
power lifter.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
They do that in Russia.
I don't think they measure thesize of your hand and be like
you can power lift.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
You get people who and fighters are a great example
.
So there's so many differentlike sizes and shapes of
fighters heavyweights,lightweights, right, so them
being able to be at that top 1%,but all different body shapes
like you don't really see thattoo often same.
(13:27):
Most nba players look the same.
Hockey players tend to look thesame.
There are outliers, of course,but is it that that person is so
good at what they do because oftheir structure and then all
the added years of skill on topof that, or is and that got them
there?
Or can you be built to do to bea swimmer, but put enough
effort in and become a shotputter?
You know what I mean what wouldyou?
(13:49):
what would you say?
Speaker 1 (13:50):
do it at a young enough age and get them to to
get the range of motionnecessary.
But there's definitely a hugegenetic component.
Like, right, there are somepeople kind of what you're
saying that are just built acertain way and they can, just
they can go throw 100 miles perhour without ever training.
They can be the bo jackson thatcan squat 400 pounds without
ever actually squatting.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Um, I I tell people that all the time when, like
we're doing the movementassessments and stuff, like
looking at the way they move,it's like you're built to squat
and like which one feels morenatural like versus squat or a
deadlift and a lot of the times,what they you're built to squat
and like which one feels morenatural like versus squat or a
deadlift and a lot of the times,what they're like built to do
quote unquote is what they biastowards, like oh, I love squats,
(14:32):
I hate deadlifts or somethingalong those lines and that kind
of like confirms yeah, I thinkthat's a good lay person way of
like going like hey, you'rebuilt for squat, you're built
for this exercise.
Like right up down verse backand forth me personally.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
I'm built for running .
For what reason I don't know,but I can naturally run at a
quick pace, even when I wasn'treally running relative,
relatively that much.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
That's probably more of a physiology thing with me as
opposed to biomechanics,because I'm 5'8 and no long
length to really propel me but,I think that's a good way to
think about it yeah, and you'rea unique case too, because at
your heaviest, when you werelifting really heavy, how much
heavier were you?
Speaker 1 (15:18):
I mean, I was like 200 pounds yeah, so what are you
now?
Speaker 2 (15:22):
like 160 yeah you had 40 pounds of muscle, maybe some
fat on there, like that's.
Yeah, that's crazy.
That's crazy that you could andyou were strong as shit from
like a numbers perspective there, and now you're like fast
endurance, like you have thatcapacity so you can train and
(15:44):
adapt.
Your body is very adaptable.
Yeah, the point of I guess foreveryone listening, the point of
what we're saying is you arebuilt to have certain
superpowers, so it's do youchoose to use them or not?
Because you can train in eitherway, but there's not a lot of
five, five centers in in the NBA, you know, and that's
(16:07):
intentional, that's naturalselection.
So it's super interesting,super interesting argument.
But it comes down, especiallywith kids, it comes down to
desire.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
I feel like, for the most part, yeah, I mean like you
you hear the well, I see it allthe time in college athletics.
Like you get a kid who's afreshman that's there and
they're like I don't even wantto play this sport anymore and
like, right, they probably lostto play that sport years ago.
They were just like, oh well,parent, pressure slash, maybe I
can get a scholarship.
(16:43):
Pressure slash, I got thescholarship.
Now I to just like hang aroundand try to hold on to it as long
as I can should we just turnthis into a roasting?
Speaker 2 (16:52):
the crazy parents, the crazy sport parents, episode
that kind of seems like whereit's going.
I know.
I mean everyone knows that.
Everyone knows that person.
When you think crazy sportparent, everyone's got someone
in mind yeah it's.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
You know it's funny.
We only talk about.
We talk about all these peoplemake professional sports and
like it's because you know, I'msure it's a little bit of both.
Like right, they're probablygenetically gifted, built a
certain way, then you add allthe skill on it as well.
Like probably helps a lot.
But then you know we also youmiss all the stories that happen
in youth sports and high schoolsports where there are kids
(17:25):
that try to do all that and theyall got broken and hurt and
things didn't work out.
And you know you look at theschedules.
I always talk about thebaseball schedule.
I will work showcases.
You know random high schoolprospect camps essentially june,
july, you know it's whatever.
By the time august rolls around,that amount of kids that I
(17:45):
start seeing with shoulder andelbow pain and things like that
and they'll be talking about ohyeah, I just finished, so right.
They're typically coming offtheir high school season that
started march 1st.
They do all this.
It's august.
So how many months is that?
March, april, may, june, july,august?
We're at six months.
That's already.
That's.
That's a college baseball.
That's almost like a pro seasonsix months.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
And then they're going yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
I still got a.
I still plan on playing fallball and pitching and fall ball
as well.
And it's just like dude, yougot to take a break Like this
isn't the time.
The research for baseball,specifically, is you're supposed
to take two months off, twoconsecutive months off before.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Is it rest or off of pitching?
Speaker 1 (18:26):
off from pitching throwing right, so I feel like
that's another thing.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
When people say rest, it's like, oh, I can't lose
progress like, just take sometime away from your sport, like
that.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
I think a lot of times, if you get people to do
that especially you know thosechronic you know like you're
still going to have the acuteinjuries, the injuries at the
sprain, ankles, things.
But in swim swimming, baseball,tennis, you just take two
months off and like just trainand do other stuff for two
months consecutively and thenget back to the sport yeah, like
(18:58):
, go have, go have some fun playpickleball.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
It's great.
I just picked it up.
It's fantastic yeah can't sayenough good things about it I
really want to pick uppickleball.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Actually I'll have to dude.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Go get a paddle.
You and your wife can go play.
It's phenomenal.
It's not as much skill requiredas tennis, but you still get a
good sweat super fun, but yeah,that's you hear.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
All these kids get broken essentially in the summer
, offseason stuff.
But the problem for collegeathletics is summer is like the
heaviest recruiting time.
So there's times where Ievaluate a kid at a random camp
and it's like having to tellthem you need to take time off,
like that's the only way thisthing most likely gets better.
It's better.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yeah, I also think the broken thing is twofold, not
only physical but especially toa developing kid, how much
mental strain that puts on them,especially because when you're
a kid like identifying as abaseball player or whatever and
then not being able to do that.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Or, like you said, hating baseball and feeling
forced and pressured to do it.
Like there are some very sad Iwent to when I was in high
school.
There was a girl.
She was a really, really goodcross country runner, like super
smart, like the whole nineRight and and she committed
(20:19):
suicide because of.
I mean, the alleged story islike she committed suicide
because of the, like, thepressures that got to her
between school and running.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
so like the mental aspect is one that's talked
about way less, but equally, ifnot more, important yeah, yeah,
I think it's funny, even me andyou talking about I, I would say
I miss it sometimes, honestly,a lot of times.
I don't work in that population, but yeah, it's a huge.
That's a huge thing to take intoaccount.
Um, especially, yeah,especially in that college world
(20:52):
, like and you hear this, I feellike I haven't heard one of
those stories recently, but likeI think it just it's just
because we haven't heard it of abig name athlete happened
recently so but.
I hear it all the time in thathigh school like because those
are huge ages, a lot ofdifferent thoughts going on,
really it's you know a lot ofpeople.
(21:13):
Uh, it's big growing mentallyfor a lot of kids at that age.
So it's especially kind of whatyou said.
They identify with that sport,like I am this person of this
sport.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
If I don't have that sport, I am nothing yeah, and
when it gets to that kind oflevel like the risk to reward
ratio is just so out of whack Ihate to say it like I'm, like I
want to guide my kid away from.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
I don't want to say competitive yeah, yeah
competitive, competitive sports,like I want them to go have.
Go read a bunch of books, golearn musical instruments, go
learn computer programming,probably make more money doing
that than they ever will playingsports.
So like, go, go, go, do thatstuff and have fun in that and
don't let a sport make identifyyourself in that.
(22:01):
And, like you know, even evenme me growing up I think that's
how we get into athletictraining a lot of times, right,
you kind of identify with aspecific sport and then you know
, I think, us, a lot of us in it.
We realize, oh wow, we'rereally not good at that sport
and that, but we still want tobe around it and we still
identify, you know, as athletictrainers.
I don't know how it is in thechiropractic world, but, like
(22:24):
you know, people will startidentifying with the profession
as well.
And then there's a whole like Ican't be who I am if I'm not an
athletic trainer.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Dude, there's a lot of kids who I went to school
with, who whose dads, uncles,moms, aunts, like the whole
family was chiropractors.
It's like a weird.
I was the weirdo for not notknowing anyone who was a
chiropractor and not liking itbefore I went to school.
(22:55):
Did I ever tell you that story?
I went to like I just hadnon-specific low back pain like
just started really liftingconsistently in high school and
I went to the chiropractor and Ishit you not.
He came out with a big pvc pipeand a bowling ball in the end
and he was like every inch youlean forward puts this much more
(23:17):
stress on your spine and blahlike the most gimmicky thing you
could possibly imagine.
And as a kid I was like stillskeptical.
I was like what is this guytalking about?
And then I was like, okay, I'llgive him another, I'll give him
another shot.
Um, I said when, like how longis this going to take until I
(23:39):
feel better?
Like when should I come?
Like when should I come back?
Next?
He goes oh, you're going tocome back three times a week
until your insurance runs outliterally what he said.
Yeah, and even like as a kid,not even knowing what insurance
like really was.
So I was like all right I guessthat's how it works.
I either get better or I don't.
So, like being where I am now,I like that's out there.
(24:03):
I can't imagine having someonewho is in pain and like in my
office and being like you canonly come in until, like, your
money runs out and then you'rescrewed like I don't really care
if you get better or not.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
That's why he didn't give you anything to do on your
own either.
He was just a crackety poppity.
Look at that, your, yourbowling ball head isn't leading
us far forward.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Your spine was here, and now it's here it's.
I mean, we don't have to godown that tangent hole again,
but I think we already did thatonce.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Um, yeah, the youth sport thing is.
It's interesting, like we evenneed to like I don't have the
money behind it.
Like you know, there's a pieceI think espn did it, um, which
is kind of surprising, I'mthinking about it where they
were calling it like pay to play, like right, if you want to get
your kid to the top level andstuff like that, like the
(25:02):
athletes that actually make it,a lot of times it's more of a,
you've got to be able to afford,to be able to like be in these
tournaments and these projectsyeah things like that.
Um, which is funny to think,when I was in high school I was
like, oh yeah, I want to playcollege sport, but I never did
any of that.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
I was just playing high school sports and there's
there's also that barrier, thatpay barrier, to actually get
into those camps, to actuallyget recruited, to then possibly
play in college and on the otherside of that too, that's the
word recovery has totally lostmeaning, in my opinion, because
it means anything and everythingto sell you something to keep
(25:40):
you going like, just like that.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
So you'll get me on this tangent, like I get it if
I'm working collegiate baseballin season.
We're trying to get you througha season.
All right, I'll chuck all themodalities at you like right I
want you to feel good, but isfeeling good actually good for
you?
Like, is it or are you gonna?
(26:02):
Are you gonna push throughsomething that you're not
supposed to be pushing through?
So, even when the recoverymodalities now your STEM units,
the ice baths you know ice bathsmight retard muscle hypertrophy
, so don't do it.
After lifting, what else?
Massage guns, things like that,that stuff that makes you
better Are they actuallyphysiologically recovering you
or are you just feeling betterand you might push through
(26:25):
something that you shouldn't?
like that's that's you know I, Ipersonally, right now don't use
any of that stuff and for forrunning and training, and that's
it's for that reason, because Idon't want to push my self
through something that Ishouldn't be pushing it through
interesting perspective yeah, soI've had that I've had that
(26:45):
talk with people so like right,college baseball, fall ball.
I am less apt to let people kindof use that stuff on a regular
basis, you know, if it's likehey, and they probably get a
little bit more benefit whenthey do use it.
But I don't want them feelinggood, push through something
that might actually be actualpathology, might be an actual
(27:07):
injury.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Gotcha.
So not feeling good in thesense of no injury, you mean
using modalities to mask apotential underlying something,
or other yeah.
Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Yeah, so that's something I always have to.
You know, a lot of times for meas a clinician, I am like, hey,
I want, can I get an ice bag?
And then I absolutely destroythem with questions on why they
want an ice bag.
And then, typically, we end upgetting an ice bag and they come
in for exercises the next dayum right, that's typically what
the process would be, but it'sbecause I yeah, I think early on
(27:41):
in my career it would justespecially like in the football
world, where it really is likethey push through everything and
anything and you're just tryingto get them through.
He feels bad because he playsfootball, so ice stim, ice stim
massage gun.
Norm Tech, boots, whatever, andI think a lot of times we might
(28:02):
forget that there might besomething brewing.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yeah.
So that's actually something Imean.
I run into it in Gen Pop.
You probably run into it at amuch higher scale when you have
such a high volume of activity.
So, x amount of hours ofpractice every day, five, six
times a week, right.
And then all they want to do isget some sort of relief and
chill, right.
(28:27):
And then they come into you andthey're like, hey, like can I
just get some ice for my elbow?
And then you're like, no, youhave to do more exercises.
Like do you think that?
Like how do you think that islike perceived?
And how do you, how do you makethem understand that you're
just like not just trying togive them extra work and you're
actually trying to help them inthe long run, like the longevity
(28:47):
?
Speaker 1 (28:47):
aspect me giving all I always give all the research
around loosely, what elbowsoreness technically leads to,
even if it's not in aproblematic area.
But then, it's also like, hey,if you're doing all this
activity, you got to have thestrength to tolerate all this
activity so and you got to beable to have the endurance so
(29:07):
that your scapula doesn't fail,the your muscles around your
scapula don't fail.
So you're putting more stress onyour rotator cuff or you're
putting more stress on yourelbow while you're throwing um.
So that's typically how I runthrough it.
It's we gotta do a little bitmore, and a lot of times I I
make sure that it's more part ofa warm-up as it's changing up a
warm-up or anything for them,as opposed to really layering,
(29:29):
layering a lot of rehab,especially if they're in season.
When we're out of season, Icrush people like it's hey, we
are loading you to the t,especially post-coach school too
.
It's you know, hey, I gotta getyour volume up before you even
come close to touching abaseball.
So they end up doing a lot ofvolume.
(29:49):
Shoulder work wise.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Hip work wise, you know, in the college you're
working with strength coach too,to get the entire body down
yeah, I totally, totally vibewith that because you can't out
rehab interference.
So if someone's has a highvolume of like junky movement
every single day, right, youdoing exercises, like a couple
(30:15):
exercises, either beginning orthe end, how much is that going
to move the needle?
But if you can modify and kindof like change everything up,
like the way that you'reexplaining and being able to be
like, hey, like this is what youhave to do to play your sport,
I get that right.
I'm not baseball coach.
But when it's time to turn thatoff and it's time to help you
(30:37):
fix yourself from all the damagethat you've done, right,
because they can.
I've heard the argument evenlike is playing sports and being
active quote unquote healthyfor the reason of like it's
intentionally repetitive stressdamage, all this kind of stuff,
right.
So being able to kind ofcounterbalance the demand of
(30:58):
sport and the demand of exercisewith intentional programming
call it rehab right is a hugebalance on the scale, because if
you have way too much of one,the other isn't really it's not
enough weight to kind of likeget you back to feeling good and
performing good in my opinion,any strength fishing person you
(31:21):
can go back to like theperiodization idea or like you
know it's like if you're in hightraining mode that means like
your volume elsewhere needs tobe less things like that.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
But yeah, I think the important thing there is just
realizing make sure you'retaking time away from whatever.
If something comes in, it'slike all right, we'll deal with
it.
Now the long-term solutionshould not be all those
modalities and things to try tofeel right you'll sort.
A long-term solution isultimately going to be how about
we get something stronger?
How about we get somethingstronger?
(31:53):
How about we get you movingbetter, so that when you go back
to your sport again, you don'thave the same issue?
Speaker 2 (31:59):
yeah, I have a patient who's a bodybuilder and
like the whole nine um, enormoushuman being and he was talking
about.
He like my shoulders like sojacked up, blah, blah, blah, and
I had that conversation withhim.
I was like we, if you'retraining at like such a high
(32:19):
load intensity daily, yada, yada, we can't out rehab, all of
this stress you're puttingthrough your shoulder.
So he, we, we came to theconclusion where he's like I
need to do this to get to my endgoal.
Like have a coach like this islike what I have to do and
that's not my area of expertise.
(32:40):
So like is there a better wayto load the shoulder while he's
training?
Probably, but at the same time,like he's completely willing.
So he's like once, once I get,once I compete, and then we
circle back, I'm down to likeactually go through rehab and
like fix it for good so thatnext time he competes like maybe
(33:02):
a year from now or whateverthat he doesn't have those
problems because he hasincreased range of motion and
more like competency andcapacity to load all those types
of fun things, which kind ofsounds like a parallel to what
you were saying with thebaseball.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
No, no, it's the exact same exact thing.
Right, get him through whatever, whatever his competition is,
modify his activity, maybe stickaway from anything overhead.
You start doing a floor presstoo or things like that, just so
he doesn't completely yeah loseeverything or he does whatever.
Exercise is pain-free, but thenit gives you time to actually
try to correct some movementsand dysfunction that he has a
(33:36):
hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
You can't ignore the competition level and like all
the things like going back towhy people are so we're playing
around at such a high volume,like you can't ignore.
You can't ignore that becauseif you do that and their
performance suffers on the field, right, if you like, kind of
take, ignore.
You can't ignore that, becauseif you do that and their
performance suffers on the field, right, if you like kind of
take, if you really heavilyrestrict them, change all this
(33:59):
stuff up and it's they suffer inperformance like they're gonna
be pissed yeah you know what Imean, even though is it the best
thing to help them avoidpotential injury?
Maybe, but like it's a reallyreally fine line Once you start,
the more and more we talk aboutit, I'm like Ooh, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Yeah, it's funny.
You're getting into theperformance side, so it's it's
funny.
Sorry to keep going back tobaseball, but this is probably
across all sports the the fasteryou throw the ball, the more
likely you're gonna get hurt.
That is easily across sports,or across all baseball
literature, yada, yada, but it'sgonna be the same across sports
(34:42):
.
The faster you run, the morestress you're putting on
yourself.
So you, like you, startteetering this line of like oh,
I think we even had it at udwith our, with our force plates.
It's like you realize that.
Like, oh, why is this person atrisk of injury?
They're the best player on ourteam.
Well, probably because they'reoutputting the most force out of
(35:02):
any out of everyone else like.
That's why they're like there's.
Sometimes there iscompensations that occur that
are very sport specific, thatare very good performance
reasons.
It's going to get someone far,but then you're worrying about
that injury risk wow, this isgood stuff, man.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
This is good stuff, I would say.
I would say the biggest thingthat we talked about from like
not only the volume of theathletic sorry, the physical
component, also the don'tdiscredit or ignore the volume
that that places on the mentalcomponent and and teetering that
(35:45):
fine line between performanceand health right, Because
putting yourself in a betterposition to perform could put
your health at more risk.
So, going into that with eyeswide open, I feel like people
don't necessarily fullycomprehend that when they're in
(36:06):
it, but when you can take a stepback and appreciate the big
picture it's and have aconversation right when you're
not in the heat picture it's andhave a conversation right when
you're not in the heat of it, Ithink is a very valuable thing
for athletes to take home yeah,I think a lot of times.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
So, right, you talk about the mental side of the
performance versus the risk ofperformance.
Um, it's, I think, what yousaid.
Take a step back.
What are your goals?
If that's your goal, you canget there.
Just realize the risk that canpotentially come along here's
how we're going to mitigatethose risks throughout the
program and how we kind of setyou self.
(36:42):
So set yourself up for thatyear cycle.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
However, not everything's foolproof right,
yeah, 100 man good episode.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think that actually ended upbeing a lot a decent amount to
take away from that.
He just started talking aboutsports and got us all riled up.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Yeah, who would have thought, man, who would have
thought yeah?
Speaker 1 (37:07):
So what are you going to do tomorrow?
What are you going to teachsomeone to do what?
Speaker 2 (37:12):
do you mean?
What were you going to teachsomeone to do?
What do you mean?
What were you setting me up for?
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Go fix yourself, god damn it.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Go fix yourself.
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